View Full Version : Mineoro FG79-Happy new Year
Hi All.
I attach here the complete schematic of the Mineoro FG79.1.
Basically the schematic is based on a Alexismex tread.
It is a present for the New Year.
Regards:):):)
Hi All.
I attach here the complete schematic of the Mineoro FG79.1.
Basically the schematic is based on a Alexismex tread.
It is a present for the New Year.
Regards:):):)
Hi Geo
very fair present for those who believe in LRL.
Now can prove on cheap way how mineoros (not)work.
Bets wishes to you and your family in 2011.
Ηι WM6.
Thanks for wishes!!!.
I wish the same for your Family!!!
Regards:)
I wish the same for your Family!!!
:)
To not go something wrong with my or your wishes I must a little correct myself from previous post (who knows what consequences can follow from "Bets"?):
Best wishes to you and your family in 2011.
To not go something wrong with my or your wishes I must a little correct myself from previous post (who knows what consequences can follow from "Bets"?):
Best wishes to you and your family in 2011.
Who bets????
Barbarossa
12-31-2010, 08:05 AM
happy new year.all the bests for all
FrancoItaly
12-31-2010, 09:54 AM
Hi Geo
Best wishes to you, I think that the 2011 it will give to us a workink lrl. I have obtained good results with my last instrument, but I'm not 100 % sure... The operation principle is similar to your lrl with ferrite rod, I think a pulse system with sampling.
Best regards
Again, this is not the FG79 model.
Despite of using a PCB reading FG79.1, this is the old CDM210 which I bet was an experimental model as it was never advertised. Maybe only one or two units were produced and the person who bought it, probably was at Mineoro's factory at that time and did it directly from Damasio.
Besides the ATMEL codes, I see there are mistakes in this schematic which will prevent it to work properly.
Also I remember talking to Damasio at that time and he told me that those ATMELS were not being used anymore. So maybe this model was even older yet, probably from around 2001 or 2002.
PS. An update from the person who recovered a small treasure weeks ago with his Mineoro.
He has already exchanged the gold pieces for money. Don't know how much he got tough.
Happy new year for everybody.
Qiaozhi
12-31-2010, 11:42 AM
Despite of using a PCB reading FG79.1, this is the old CDM210 which I bet was an experimental model as it was never advertised. Maybe only one or two units were produced and the person who bought it, probably was at Mineoro's factory at that time and did it directly from Damasio.
Besides the ATMEL codes, I see there are mistakes in this schematic which will prevent it to work properly.
So Domasio sold this [unknown] person an old outdated experimental (and non-working) model? :frown:
So Domasio sold this [unknown] person an old outdated experimental (and non-working) model? :frown:
I did not state it was non working.
I said it appears to me that the schematic as traced has errors (which I will not coment on due to ethics), and might not reflect exactly the original device.
This, added to the unkown Atmel codes might prevent it to work properly.
Being outdated or not I am sure this device worked at that time and if its integrity was kept, would work today also.
As for this model, if it was experimental or not, maybe the only one who could give the right information is Damasio himself. But unfortunately he is deceased.
Theseus
12-31-2010, 02:07 PM
I did not state it was non working.
I said it appears to me that the schematic as traced has errors (which I will not coment on due to ethics), and might not reflect exactly the original device.
This, added to the unkown Atmel codes might prevent it to work properly.
Being outdated or not I am sure this device worked at that time and if its integrity was kept, would work today also.
As for this model, if it was experimental or not, maybe the only one who could give the right information is Damasio himself. But unfortunately he is deceased.
Or perhaps it is closer (or exactly like) what is being sold today and you are merely trying to cover up that fact.
Regardless if the circuit is different today or not, I'm sure the results from either this circuit or the latest and greatest circuit are exactly the same. They simply do not work, but are meant to take advantage of the gullible and technically-challenged, and rob them of their money if at all possible.
minime
12-31-2010, 02:11 PM
I did not state it was non working.
I said it appears to me that the schematic as traced has errors (which I will not coment on due to ethics), and might not reflect exactly the original device.
This, added to the unkown Atmel codes might prevent it to work properly.
Being outdated or not I am sure this device worked at that time and if its integrity was kept, would work today also.
As for this model, if it was experimental or not, maybe the only one who could give the right information is Damasio himself. But unfortunately he is deceased.
Just out of curiousity, when Damasio was deceased? Was that announced by any way, anywhere (ie. here at the forum) at the time? I missed that information, can you point me where this was announced in the first place, if it was announced of course!
That's something I haven;t heard! It;s sad of course... when you hear something like this, for any person, regardless if you did or didn;t agree at his philosophy of designing!
Just out of curiousity, when Damasio was deceased? Was that announced by any way, anywhere (ie. here at the forum) at the time? I missed that information, can you point me where this was announced in the first place, if it was announced of course!
That's something I haven;t heard! It;s sad of course... when you hear something like this, for any person, regardless if you did or didn;t agree at his philosophy of designing!
Hi minime,
It's here.
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15628
Very sad.
But despite of being a visionary, sucessful entreprenour, beloved by his family and owner of a great mind, he apparently did not pursue one great treasure: Health.
He will always be missed.
Here's the homage I made to him at the time.
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15630
minime
12-31-2010, 03:32 PM
Hi minime,
It's here.
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15628
Very sad.
But despite of being a visionary, sucessful entreprenour, beloved by his family and owner of a great mind, he apparently did not pursue one great treasure: Health.
He will always be missed.
Here's the homage I made to him at the time.
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15630
Thank you Hung. I surelly 've missed that very important information. RIP, as he at least provided a way of hope, to too many people outhere, searching and digging to make their lifes easier!
For all of us who still alive, happy new year, for the 2011 & may the "force" be with you!!!
aft_72005
01-02-2011, 03:06 AM
Hi All.
I attach here the complete schematic of the Mineoro FG79.1.
Basically the schematic is based on a Alexismex tread.
It is a present for the New Year.
Regards:):):)
Hi Geo
Happy new year with best wishes for you.:cheers:
Congratulate , nice work :thumb:. can you upload eagle file ?
Hi Geo
Happy new year with best wishes for you.:cheers:
Congratulate , nice work :thumb:. can you upload eagle file ?
Hi Aft.
I ded not draw pcb for it.
If you want the schematic file i can try this week to upload it.
Regards
Again, this is not the FG79 model.
Despite of using a PCB reading FG79.1, this is the old CDM210 which I bet was an experimental model as it was never advertised. Maybe only one or two units were produced and the person who bought it, probably was at Mineoro's factory at that time and did it directly from Damasio.
Besides the ATMEL codes, I see there are mistakes in this schematic which will prevent it to work properly.
Also I remember talking to Damasio at that time and he told me that those ATMELS were not being used anymore. So maybe this model was even older yet, probably from around 2001 or 2002.
PS. An update from the person who recovered a small treasure weeks ago with his Mineoro.
He has already exchanged the gold pieces for money. Don't know how much he got tough.
Happy new year for everybody.
Hi Hung.
To be more serious.... the box of Mineoro writes CDM210 FreshGold FG79.1
Now about ATMEL codes....no problem if there are errors. As you see the only job of Atmel is to gives a square wave to the "champer" and to drive the buzzer, so with 2 NE555 we don't need the Atmel. But the problem is not the Atmel but the way that Mineoro works. It uses one input for 2 signals, the signal from champer who must be only from gold (the reason of sample) and the signal from Loop. So when it will beep, you don't know if the signal it is from gold, from other metal or from electric lines.......
Regards:)
Hi Geo
Best wishes to you, I think that the 2011 it will give to us a workink lrl. I have obtained good results with my last instrument, but I'm not 100 % sure... The operation principle is similar to your lrl with ferrite rod, I think a pulse system with sampling.
Best regards
Hi Franco.
I am waiting for your LRL
Regards:)
J_Player
01-02-2011, 05:01 AM
Hi Hung.
To be more serious.... the box of Mineoro writes CDM210 FreshGold FG79.1
Now about ATMEL codes....no problem if there are errors. As you see the only job of Atmel is to gives a square wave to the "champer" and to drive the buzzer, so with 2 NE555 we don't need the Atmel. But the problem is not the Atmel but the way that Mineoro works. It uses one input for 2 signals, the signal from champer who must be only from gold (the reason of sample) and the signal from Loop. So when it will beep, you don't know if the signal it is from gold, from other metal or from electric lines.......
Regards:)Hi Geo...
No problem if there are errors in the Atmel processor...
Who cares?
The mineoro LRL does not need any atmel to make beeping.
Electric lines will make beeps if no atmel in the box. :thumb:
Best wishes,
J_P
Hi Geo...
No problem if there are errors in the Atmel processor...
Who cares?
The mineoro LRL does not need any atmel to make beeping.
Electric lines will make beeps if no atmel in the box. :thumb:
Best wishes,
J_P
Hi J_P.
When i own a PDC210 i made a test with the signal generator. I connected a small loop to the generator output and i checked for beeps from the Mineoro. There was at least 1000 frequencies where i heard beep.
After this i sold it:lol:
Regards:)
btw... you never sleep??
Hi Qiaozhi.
If it is easy, i want to rename this thread from Happy new year to Mineoro FG79-Happy new Year.
So it will be more easy for us to find something from it by using the search option.
Regards:)
aft_72005
01-02-2011, 05:30 AM
Hi Aft.
I ded not draw pcb for it.
If you want the schematic file i can try this week to upload it.
Regards
Yes, my opinion was schematic or circuit diagram( eagle file) . you uploaded , only jpeg .
Best regards.
Hi Hung.
To be more serious.... the box of Mineoro writes CDM210 FreshGold FG79.1
Now about ATMEL codes....no problem if there are errors. As you see the only job of Atmel is to gives a square wave to the "champer" and to drive the buzzer, so with 2 NE555 we don't need the Atmel. But the problem is not the Atmel but the way that Mineoro works. It uses one input for 2 signals, the signal from champer who must be only from gold (the reason of sample) and the signal from Loop. So when it will beep, you don't know if the signal it is from gold, from other metal or from electric lines.......
Regards:)
Geo, you can actually use many alternatives to it, not only the 555, but a 7555, a CD4001, etc. So what?
They alone, do not make a beeping circuit. You need a logical circuit to provide this once you fully understand what they are supposed to do. If you don't, you will only have a beeping trigger. That's all. This will be even harder to follow if mistakes are present in schematics.
To my surprise, you still appear to not understand what is going on to back up your conclusions which are mistaken.
An ion based detection system obviously will react to all kinds of electric fields as ions are everywhere. But the way the Mineoros are built allows it to 'classify' the gold ones.
This machine is about 10 years old now and despite of being good at that time, the new models are different, both in terms of circuitry and ionic chamber.
But, as with any electronic apparatus, it can always be improved, as long as you understand the concept and what is going on.
From a metaphoric view, you are trying to 'listen to the answer' to figure out the question made.
In some instances, you may deduce what it could be, but in others, you will not know what exactly was asked if you did not hear the question yourself. And this is what it takes.
FrancoItaly
01-02-2011, 09:40 AM
Hi All
In my opinion for a LRL isn't very important to discriminate only gold, but to reveal conductive metals at many meters...
Best regards
Qiaozhi
01-02-2011, 11:57 AM
Hi Qiaozhi.
If it is easy, i want to rename this thread from Happy new year to Mineoro FG79-Happy new Year.
So it will be more easy for us to find something from it by using the search option.
Regards:)
Done.
Done.
Thank you Qiaozhi:)
Geo, you can actually use many alternatives to it, not only the 555, but a 7555, a CD4001, etc. So what?
They alone, do not make a beeping circuit. You need a logical circuit to provide this once you fully understand what they are supposed to do. If you don't, you will only have a beeping trigger. That's all. This will be even harder to follow if mistakes are present in schematics.
To my surprise, you still appear to not understand what is going on to back up your conclusions which are mistaken.
An ion based detection system obviously will react to all kinds of electric fields as ions are everywhere. But the way the Mineoros are built allows it to 'classify' the gold ones.
This machine is about 10 years old now and despite of being good at that time, the new models are different, both in terms of circuitry and ionic chamber.
But, as with any electronic apparatus, it can always be improved, as long as you understand the concept and what is going on.
From a metaphoric view, you are trying to 'listen to the answer' to figure out the question made.
In some instances, you may deduce what it could be, but in others, you will not know what exactly was asked if you did not hear the question yourself. And this is what it takes.
Why you try to present that you did not understand what I said???. I am sure that you understood.
Regards:)
Hi All
In my opinion for a LRL isn't very important to discriminate only gold, but to reveal conductive metals at many meters...
Best regards
Hi Franco.
Exactly.... There are other objects (no gold) that they are very very expensive....
For example old copper, old silver etc.....
Regards:)
Who bets????
Geo, "bets" was typo in my first New year wishes to you (instead of "best"). So I correct it to not get bad karma.
Geo, "bets" was typo in my first New year wishes to you (instead of "best"). So I correct it to not get bad karma.
Hahaha... thanks.
I believe to LRL but not to Karma.
You are the oposite from me :lol::lol:
Hahaha... thanks.
I believe to LRL but not to Karma.
You are the oposite from me :lol::lol:
Yes, but Karma can reach you more remotely than LRL. There is no distance limits for Karma. Ask Mr. Hung. He believes in $$-reincarnation out of nothing.
J_Player
01-03-2011, 07:34 AM
....no problem if there are errors. As you see the only job of Atmel is to gives a square wave to the "champer" and to drive the buzzer, so with 2 NE555 we don't need the Atmel. But the problem is not the Atmel but the way that Mineoro works. It uses one input for 2 signals, the signal from champer who must be only from gold (the reason of sample) and the signal from Loop. So when it will beep, you don't know if the signal it is from gold, from other metal or from electric lines.......Hi Geo,
There is more to see in the circuit you posted.
We see two signals feeding to one input at Q1, as you say. Then after these two signals are amplified and filtered, we see they emerge as a single signal at Q3 which is sent to one input of the Atmel processor.
The same signal is also sent through an adjustable resistor divider, then sent to another Atmel input.
So we now see how Mineoro is thinking about circuit design...
Combine two signals into the same input.
Then take the single signal output and split it into two signals to send to a processor. :???:
This may seem a strange circuit approach to sent the same signal to both inputs of a processor with different strengths.
Are you sure the purpose of the processor is to compare these signals?
Best wishes,
J_P
Astrodetect
01-03-2011, 07:52 AM
Hi all and Happy New year
As for the Mineoro the atmel is used to generate the square pulses for the ion chamber
but also it uses the on board analog voltage comparator of the chip, and this is the true
classifier. What does it do? The pulses of the ion chanber gold leaf are fed to the voltage comparator and if the mineoro senses gold ions then the amplitude of the sharp pulses rises and the mineoro beeps. This is the supposed clasifier which works with the gold sample.
Regards
Morgan
01-03-2011, 07:08 PM
Hi all and Happy New year
As for the Mineoro the atmel is used to generate the square pulses for the ion chamber
but also it uses the on board analog voltage comparator of the chip, and this is the true
classifier. What does it do? The pulses of the ion chanber gold leaf are fed to the voltage comparator and if the mineoro senses gold ions then the amplitude of the sharp pulses rises and the mineoro beeps. This is the supposed clasifier which works with the gold sample.
Regards
That´s the theory,but the experience shows the MINEORO is not so good as GOLD LRL,unfortunatly...
J_Player
01-03-2011, 09:17 PM
That´s the theory,but the experience shows the MINEORO is not so good as GOLD LRL,unfortunatly...Exactly....
The theory does not matter if the product does not work. We see Mineoro has removed their theory of Romeo and Juliet love ions making a crashing to send a signal to Q1. You will no longer find this theory on the Mineoro page:
...This explains the substance classifier. When the negative "ion" finds its twin of opposite polarity, they love each other so intensively, that when they get together they provoke a short-circuit autodestroying themselves. As in the Romeo and Juliet movie, both of them die, but the proof of their death is a flask of poison near them; in the same way, our "passionate ions" also leave a proof of their death in "emiting a crash", which generates an electrical signal so fast as nano, pico, femto or atto seconds , detectable in sensitive electronic circuits...As for the Mineoro the atmel is used to generate the square pulses for the ion chamber
but also it uses the on board analog voltage comparator of the chip, and this is the true
classifier. What does it do? The pulses of the ion chanber gold leaf are fed to the voltage comparator and if the mineoro senses gold ions then the amplitude of the sharp pulses rises and the mineoro beeps. This is the supposed clasifier which works with the gold sample.Hi Astrodetect,
This is very interesting information. How did you come to know the Atmel is sending the signal to make a comparison using the on-board voltage comparator?
Do you know what they are comparing the signal voltage to? A preset voltage level? Or another signal that is generated inside the processor?
Did you find the code for this processor? Can you share it?
I am still trying to understand why they split the final signal into two different voltages and fed the same signal to two inputs at the Atmel. To me this does not make sense unless they are doing some advanced signal processing beyond simple comparator functions. Do you have knowledge of the processor code to show us what functions are being done with these two input signals inside the AT89C2051?
Best wishes,
J_P
...This explains the substance classifier. When the negative "ion" finds its twin of opposite polarity, they love each other so intensively, that when they get together they provoke a short-circuit autodestroying themselves. As in the Romeo and Juliet movie, both of them die, but the proof of their death is a flask of poison near them; in the same way, our "passionate ions" also leave a proof of their death in "emiting a crash", which generates an electrical signal so fast as nano, pico, femto or atto seconds , detectable in sensitive electronic circuits...
Whoever wrote the quaint piece above doesn't know the difference between two oppositely charged ions and a particle antiparticle pair. :nono:
Also, anything inside an Atmel chip is incapable of detecting a signal of femto or atto seconds duration. Detecting such signals require some pretty esoteric, high performance (ie. expensive) electronics.
Looking at the schematic it is even more obvious now that the "ionic chamber" is only here to make people think there is something special to this device...
(Making us think it works like a particle detector, with only 27v and directly connected to the base of the transistor is nonsense )
The only real electronics in there is the VLF/everything receiver that will pick up some radio signal (depending of your location, time of the day etc), and will look like "signal lines"... If you are really lucky you may even find that metallic objects may have some effect on this radio signals.
But that will never be a RELIABLE method to detect buried metal.
Also, the way the thing is build it will pick up all kinds of noise and will beep randomly, then selective memory and some target (ie P.M.) advertising will do the rest.
At this price it is worth the trouble.
Looking at the schematic it is even more obvious now that the "ionic chamber" is only here to make people think there is something special to this device...
(Making us think it works like a particle detector, with only 27v and directly connected to the base of the transistor is nonsense )
The only real electronics in there is the VLF/everything receiver that will pick up some radio signal (depending of your location, time of the day etc), and will look like "signal lines"... If you are really lucky you may even find that metallic objects may have some effect on this radio signals.
But that will never be a RELIABLE method to detect buried metal.
Also, the way the thing is build it will pick up all kinds of noise and will beep randomly, then selective memory and some target (ie P.M.) advertising will do the rest.
At this price it is worth the trouble.
You are dign of pity.
So I will do my first charity of the year, offering you the opportunity of your life.
Here... It's all yours. FOR FREE.
http://www.electronicstheory.com/COURSES/ELECTRONICS/e101-1.htm
You cannot imagine how rewarding it is to help another soul to reach the light.
J_Player
01-04-2011, 02:19 AM
You are dign of pity.
So I will do my first charity of the year, offering you the opportunity of your life.
Here... It's all yours. FOR FREE.
http://www.electronicstheory.com/COURSES/ELECTRONICS/e101-1.htm
You cannot imagine how rewarding it is to help another soul to reach the light.When the world is closing in on you, punt and hope for the best. :thumb:
What? It didn't work?
Still nobody believes you know what yer talking about? :shocked:
How sad it is when you got busted for plagiarizing Damasio's scribblings that he removed from his web page when people figured out he was lying....
You still believe gold ions DNA produces a substance that fights against oxidation? :rolleyes:
Oh well....
Now back to what we were talking about...
Looking at the schematic it is even more obvious now that the "ionic chamber" is only here to make people think there is something special to this device...
(Making us think it works like a particle detector, with only 27v and directly connected to the base of the transistor is nonsense )
The only real electronics in there is the VLF/everything receiver that will pick up some radio signal (depending of your location, time of the day etc), and will look like "signal lines"... If you are really lucky you may even find that metallic objects may have some effect on this radio signals.
But that will never be a RELIABLE method to detect buried metal.
Also, the way the thing is build it will pick up all kinds of noise and will beep randomly, then selective memory and some target (ie P.M.) advertising will do the rest.
At this price it is worth the trouble. Ummmmm...
Now wait...
Maybe there is something here...
If the Mineoro owners wanted to make the appearance of high technology, they could have hidden the Atmel processor and added some weird tubes and antennas... (oops, they did)... nevermind... :D
Well... at least they sent the same signal to the processor twice... with different strengths.... don't that mean something?
I bet Dr. hung could explain it with elementary electronics... couldn't he?
Ok seriously... putting aside HungScience, I have seen a signal processing algorithm that uses the same signal twice at different strengths. And it is a very sophisticated and elegant solution to simplify a lot of analogue electronics. When applied to LRLs, only 2 or 3 people have ever heard of it or tried it. Those who did try the analogue version report that it works. I love to believe them, but I cannot truthfully say I have ever seen it working... only videos.
So where are we now?
Is there a new possibility?
Or is it simply another trick of the mind? :???:
Best wishes,
J_P
Hi Geo,
There is more to see in the circuit you posted.
We see two signals feeding to one input at Q1, as you say. Then after these two signals are amplified and filtered, we see they emerge as a single signal at Q3 which is sent to one input of the Atmel processor.
The same signal is also sent through an adjustable resistor divider, then sent to another Atmel input.
So we now see how Mineoro is thinking about circuit design...
Combine two signals into the same input.
Then take the single signal output and split it into two signals to send to a processor. :???:
This may seem a strange circuit approach to sent the same signal to both inputs of a processor with different strengths.
Are you sure the purpose of the processor is to compare these signals?
Best wishes,
J_P
Hi J_P.
I don't believe that is happening something strange because the same signal is going at two inputs.....
You don't believe that the gold (from the champer) gives a different signal than the signal from the Loop. If we have only one signal then the processor can't do anything more than to compare it.....
I am not good on programing processors so i can't tell more.....
Regards:)
Hi all and Happy New year
As for the Mineoro the atmel is used to generate the square pulses for the ion chamber
but also it uses the on board analog voltage comparator of the chip, and this is the true
classifier. What does it do? The pulses of the ion chanber gold leaf are fed to the voltage comparator and if the mineoro senses gold ions then the amplitude of the sharp pulses rises and the mineoro beeps. This is the supposed clasifier which works with the gold sample.
Regards
Γεια σου Δημητρη. Καλη Χρονια.:):)
Hi Astrodetect... Happy new year. As i see and you... don't believe to the theory of Mineoro
Regards
Looking at the schematic it is even more obvious now that the "ionic chamber" is only here to make people think there is something special to this device...
(Making us think it works like a particle detector, with only 27v and directly connected to the base of the transistor is nonsense )
The only real electronics in there is the VLF/everything receiver that will pick up some radio signal (depending of your location, time of the day etc), and will look like "signal lines"... If you are really lucky you may even find that metallic objects may have some effect on this radio signals.
But that will never be a RELIABLE method to detect buried metal.
Also, the way the thing is build it will pick up all kinds of noise and will beep randomly, then selective memory and some target (ie P.M.) advertising will do the rest.
At this price it is worth the trouble.
Hi Fred.
I believe exactly the same with you. A simple VLF or LF receiver and nothing more.....
It seems that it is not a reliable method to detect a object from the results... there are a little cases where the owners found buried objects but all the other cases nothing. Also this is the reason who Mineoro speaks about humidity etc.....
Regards:)
After 6 years, I see the true loop is the flow of information here...:lol:
After 6 years, I see the true loop is the flow of information here...:lol:
You need 6 years to see those signal lines?
FrancoItaly
01-04-2011, 10:08 AM
Hi J_Player
I don't know the AT89C2051 , I know very well the PIC 16F... series. Some PICs have 2 comparators and an internal programmable reference voltage, if it's the same for
the AT89C2051 it's possible that the processor controls if the voltage is out of a window voltage. Of course 2 externals comparator do the same job.
Best Regards
Qiaozhi
01-04-2011, 10:08 AM
Looking at the schematic it is even more obvious now that the "ionic chamber" is only here to make people think there is something special to this device...
(Making us think it works like a particle detector, with only 27v and directly connected to the base of the transistor is nonsense )
The only real electronics in there is the VLF/everything receiver that will pick up some radio signal (depending of your location, time of the day etc), and will look like "signal lines"... If you are really lucky you may even find that metallic objects may have some effect on this radio signals.
But that will never be a RELIABLE method to detect buried metal.
Also, the way the thing is build it will pick up all kinds of noise and will beep randomly, then selective memory and some target (ie P.M.) advertising will do the rest.
At this price it is worth the trouble.
You are dign of pity.
So I will do my first charity of the year, offering you the opportunity of your life.
Here... It's all yours. FOR FREE.
http://www.electronicstheory.com/COURSES/ELECTRONICS/e101-1.htm
You cannot imagine how rewarding it is to help another soul to reach the light.
Fred - it appears that Hung is asking you to read the information in the link, and then let him know what it means. ;)
Sad really ... :lol:
Hung - may your delusions continue during 2011 and beyond. At least it gives us all some cause for amusement. :razz:
Ozzy, you are a true laughing show when trying to explain dowsing, but balloneys apart and talking about circuit analysis...
What is this?
Let's hear the ' geoskepthic engineers' speak.
minime
01-04-2011, 12:40 PM
Ozzy, you are a true laughing show when trying to explain dowsing, but balloneys apart and talking about circuit analysis...
What is this?
Let's hear the ' geoskepthic engineers' speak.
I know it! I know about it! Can I please reply?
It;s the NEW MINEORO's front end !!! :razz: :D ???
In the left is the Ion chamber 3 contacts! The polarisation of the chamber is now more active as it uses a newer level of voltage, that regarding the positive supplied power on the machine it is down by 9V! The transistor circuit has been replaced with an OpAmp amplifier based on the high tech brand new technological miracle of the 741 !!! The following circuit uses some clipping diodes to ensure the correct leveled window that the unit will act! The S1 DPDT switch it;s the improved substitute circuit of the AT89C2051 uCU used on the older units!
The circuit uses now the manpower of its specific user, as it permits him to tune the chanching of the S1 at his body, mind resonanse!
The Led connected at the secondary switch of the S1 SPDT is for visual synchronization in case that the user is death!
Thank for revealing us such a hich tech design... Only the Mine or O could possible have invent that!
It;s the perfect upgrade circuit for the newer generation LRL's
Again... respect!
Qiaozhi
01-04-2011, 01:33 PM
Ozzy, you are a true laughing show when trying to explain dowsing, but balloneys apart and talking about circuit analysis...
What is this?
Let's hear the ' geoskepthic engineers' speak.
As I said before ... "May your delusions continue". :lol:
Very high-tech. I'm impressed. :rolleyes:
Very high-tech. I'm impressed. :rolleyes:
You shouldn't.
Wrong answer.
Not high tech. Actually low tech and very simple. Yet effective and millions were sold.
Aren't you one of the 'eyeballers' here who can spot a circuit schematics and tell their 'lifestory'?
Try again. What is this?
J_Player
01-04-2011, 03:22 PM
Hi J_Player
I don't know the AT89C2051 , I know very well the PIC 16F... series. Some PICs have 2 comparators and an internal programmable reference voltage, if it's the same for
the AT89C2051 it's possible that the processor controls if the voltage is out of a window voltage. Of course 2 externals comparator do the same job.
Best RegardsHi FrancoItaly,
The AT89C2051 also has two internal comparators, one at each of the analogue inputs. The comparator uses bit 6 of port 3 (P3.6) for the comparator output result.
Because of this, P3.6 is not available for general purpose I/O.
Hmmmm.... I don't see port 3 connected to anything in the Mineoro circuit. There must be some coding in the AT89C2051 which extracts the gold signal.
Maybe one input is for fresh gold, and the other is for long-time buried gold.
Or maybe the AT89C2051 has a random number generator coded to make random beeps when it senses there is no signal is coming from the loop or ion chamber? :rolleyes:
Best wishes,
J_P
FrancoItaly
01-04-2011, 03:45 PM
Hi J_Player
Yes it's possible in the assembly code to control for example every 50 mS if the output of the comparators change, remember the 10 hZ frequency generated from the microprocessor...My doubts are the lack of a TR stage and a TR coil, infact in all my instruments I use an oscillator that drives a coil principally to have a stable signal in the RX stage. In the case of Mineoro perhaps the 10 Hz signal is used as "chopper" circuit.
Best regards
J_Player
01-04-2011, 04:51 PM
Looking at the schematic it is even more obvious now that the "ionic chamber" is only here to make people think there is something special to this device...
(Making us think it works like a particle detector, with only 27v and directly connected to the base of the transistor is nonsense )...Hi Fred,
In Geo's most recent schematic, the ion chamber 27v is coupled to Q1 by a capacitor. No direct connection.
You see it also sent to TR2 at the output of Q1, which Geo marked as "20 MHz". See Geo's recent schematic redrawn for easier reading below.
Hi J_Player
Yes it's possible in the assembly code to control for example every 50 mS if the output of the comparators change, remember the 10 hZ frequency generated from the microprocessor...My doubts are the lack of a TR stage and a TR coil, infact in all my instruments I use an oscillator that drives a coil principally to have a stable signal in the RX stage. In the case of Mineoro perhaps the 10 Hz signal is used as "chopper" circuit.
Best regardsYou are correct. There are many ways to code the processor. It could be coded for simple comparator against a reference, or maybe coded for complex signal conditioning and extraction.
One theme that comes to mind is to examine a particular segment of each cycle of a repeating wave form.
Using a processor, the coding could look at various frequencies within a range and find the part of the wave form to examine.
Or maybe it would be easier to cause the beeper to make random beeps when neither input has risen above a voltage threshold after a time interval passed.
If the 10 Hz was intended as a chopper, then it is chopping from 27v to 22v differential. Not quite the same as 0 - 5v.
Following the circuit, we see one end of the ion chamber is connected to 27v, and is also coupled to the receiver loop input via capacitor.
According to Mineoro theory, sparks with a certain "gold DNA" will become part of the signal at Q1.
If these sparks don't arrive from passionate gold ions, then maybe some noise from the 10 Hz signal switching will arrive at Q1?
Is the 10 Hz intended to be the stable signal in the Mineoro concept?
Does noise from the 10 Hz switching make some odd signal in the coils?
Best wishes,
J_P
Morgan
01-04-2011, 06:32 PM
Looking at the schematic it is even more obvious now that the "ionic chamber" is only here to make people think there is something special to this device...
(Making us think it works like a particle detector, with only 27v and directly connected to the base of the transistor is nonsense )
The only real electronics in there is the VLF/everything receiver that will pick up some radio signal (depending of your location, time of the day etc), and will look like "signal lines"... If you are really lucky you may even find that metallic objects may have some effect on this radio signals.
But that will never be a RELIABLE method to detect buried metal.
Also, the way the thing is build it will pick up all kinds of noise and will beep randomly, then selective memory and some target (ie P.M.) advertising will do the rest.
At this price it is worth the trouble.
All the MINEORO are very quiet if not work in limit of sensitivity. Unfortunatly they are extremly quiet,you know wath i mean...
Hi Fred,
In Geo's most recent schematic, the ion chamber 27v is coupled to Q1 by a capacitor. No direct connection.
You see it also sent to TR2 at the output of Q1, which Geo marked as "20 MHz". See Geo's recent schematic redrawn for easier reading below.
You are correct. There are many ways to code the processor. It could be coded for simple comparator against a reference, or maybe coded for complex signal conditioning and extraction.
One theme that comes to mind is to examine a particular segment of each cycle of a repeating wave form.
Using a processor, the coding could look at various frequencies within a range and find the part of the wave form to examine.
Or maybe it would be easier to cause the beeper to make random beeps when neither input has risen above a voltage threshold after a time interval passed.
If the 10 Hz was intended as a chopper, then it is chopping from 27v to 22v differential. Not quite the same as 0 - 5v.
Following the circuit, we see one end of the ion chamber is connected to 27v, and is also coupled to the receiver loop input via capacitor.
According to Mineoro theory, sparks with a certain "gold DNA" will become part of the signal at Q1.
If these sparks don't arrive from passionate gold ions, then maybe some noise from the 10 Hz signal switching will arrive at Q1?
Is the 10 Hz intended to be the stable signal in the Mineoro concept?
Does noise from the 10 Hz switching make some odd signal in the coils?
Best wishes,
J_P
Hi J_P.
I marked the inductance as 20mH, not the frequency as 20MHZ...
Regards:)
J_Player
01-04-2011, 09:14 PM
Hi J_P.
I marked the inductance as 20mH, not the frequency as 20MHZ...
Regards:)Yes, my mistake.
So have you discovered the reason for the 10 Hz signal sent to the ion chamber?
Best wishes,
J_P
After 6 years, I see the true loop is the flow of information here...:lol:
Well Dr Hung, aren't you a slow learner. :lol:
Qiaozhi
01-04-2011, 09:28 PM
You shouldn't.
Wrong answer.
Not high tech. Actually low tech and very simple. Yet effective and millions were sold.
Aren't you one of the 'eyeballers' here who can spot a circuit schematics and tell their 'lifestory'?
Try again. What is this?
When you see this smilie -> :rolleyes: ... it means "sarcasm". :lol:
Of course it's low tech. I was being SARCASTIC. :razz:
Morgan
01-04-2011, 09:28 PM
Yes, my mistake.
So have you discovered the reason for the 10 Hz signal sent to the ion chamber?
Best wishes,
J_P
It was told here some years ago (mineorogreece member) ,the 10 Hz pulse sent to gold leaf inside the ionic chamber, charge the gold leaf with electrons,this is the way mineoro claims to work.
J_Player
01-04-2011, 09:54 PM
It was told here some years ago (mineorogreece member) ,the 10 Hz pulse sent to gold leaf inside the ionic chamber, charge the gold leaf with electrons,this is the way mineoro claims to work.Hi Morgan,
If the purpose of the 5v pulses is to charge the gold leaf, then why do they make pulses? Why not simply connect to 5v. supply for constant charge to the gold leaf?
Now let's think this through... You can charge the gold leaf to +5v of the Atmel processor. But the brass rod is charged to +27v. This means the gold leaf is 22v more negative than the brass rod where the spark is supposed to jump to. What is happening to the gold leaf during these pulses? The gold leaf is being connected to ground (0v.), then to +5v ten times every second, while the brass rod remains at +27v. There is no time the gold leaf becomes more positive voltage than the brass rod. So we see the brass rod is charged most positive, and it is made from copper and zinc, maybe other metals, but not from gold.
Maybe the Mineoro theory is not correct. Maybe sparks are not jumping across the ion chamber. Maybe there are no gold ions entering the ion chamber. :???:
Best wishes,
J_P
Wow, this is going fast.
Let me answer:
You are dign of pity.
(...)
You cannot imagine how rewarding it is to help another soul to reach the light.
Hung, i am surprised how you strongly react to what you call such a poor post.Anyway :You cannot imagine how rewarding it is to help another soul to reach the light.
So you feel rewarded ? Can you imagine how rewarding it is ?? ....
Fred - it appears that Hung is asking you to read the information in the link, and then let him know what it means. ;)
Sad really ... :lol:
Hung - may your delusions continue during 2011 and beyond. At least it gives us all some cause for amusement. :razz:
Yes, that´s OK, if he needs some support, here we are...But i also hope his delusions will continue, as abruptly understanding the truth could be disastrous for him.
(...)What is this?
Let's hear the ' geoskepthic engineers' speak.
This looks like a $10.000 device to me
Hi Fred,
In Geo's most recent schematic, the ion chamber 27v is coupled to Q1 by a capacitor. No direct connection.
Yes, you are right but this is what i call "direct", i mean no amplification or isolation.I don´t think to input a (27v?) spike directly to he base of the transistor will be very good, not speaking of the signal return into the coil circuit.
All the MINEORO are very quiet if not work in limit of sensitivity. Unfortunatly they are extremly quiet,you know wath i mean...
Yes, thank you morgan, as a user of mineoro stuff your opinion is very valuable and valued here.
What is this?
Let's hear the ' geoskepthic engineers' speak.
Several hours have passed and the eyeballers could not even tell what this circuit does, much less what device this is.
I will help then.
The purpose of this was to demonstrate how speculation about something can be thrown by people at anytime in hopes that it 'might stick' when the true explanation is unknown to them.
This is a very simple circuit, nevertheless the electronic engineers here did not risk any takes as to prevent them to comit a mistake because they simply do not know about it.
So, regarding the CDM210, by simply stating their lack of data for deeper analysis about the schematics wouldn't be a much better, safer, prudent and honest attitude, instead of speculating in a pejorative way?
How can someone rush to create wild conclusions and wrong judgements about a device when not even the schematics is well understood by them?
Well, I hope this example be remembered.
Even with a simple schematic provided, some people here with knowledge in electronics were not able to identify a famous distortion stomp box used by guitar players in the 70's or tell what the circuit was supposed to do.
Qiaozhi
01-04-2011, 11:23 PM
How can someone rush to create wild conclusions and wrong judgements about a device when not even the schematics is well understood by them?
Good question ... and one I've asked you many times in the past. It never ceases to amaze me how easily you can believe the most utter tripe without a shred of evidence.
So you eventually noticed that no-one here wanted to play your silly game. :lol: And how nobody ever jumps to your defense. That's something to think about. ;)
Maybe it would be better for you to return to TNET, where your "efforts" have [only] slightly more impact than they do here. :razz:
J_Player
01-04-2011, 11:26 PM
...Yes, you are right but this is what i call "direct", i mean no amplification or isolation.I don´t think to input a (27v?) spike directly to he base of the transistor will be very good, not speaking of the signal return into the coil circuit...Exactly.
Nobody would connect 27v to the base of the transistor. But there is a capacitor of unknown value to allow spikes to pass to the base of Q1. Remembering that Q1 is the first stage of amplification of the big loop, the question then becomes... what kind of spike could come from the rod at the end of the ion chamber to combine with the loop signal?
When we look at the ion chamber, it appears to have a ground and a gold leaf that is connected to a 5v square wave at 10 Hz. The brass rod connected to Q1 is separated from the gold leaf conductor by about 1/2 cm.
Does the 5v square wave pass to Q1 via C20? Is there some inductive or capacitive coupling between the gold leaf and the brass rod? Maybe EMI from the edges of the square wave?
What about the noise from the square wave switching in the Atmel processor located inside the big loop?
I remember picking up calculator clocking from a smaller loop at 5 cm distance from the calculator.
In fact I didn't need a loop. Any conductor the size of your thumb will work to pick up the pulses so I could display them on an oscilloscope.
I would imagine there is some artifact from the 10 Hz signal entering into the first stage simply because of the size of the big loop, and because this is the first stage of amplification before filters could lose the 10 Hz noise.
The biggest problem that stops us from picking up the 10 Hz is that it is such a tiny signal with no measurable power being consumed, and there are likely many sources of noise in the air much stronger than the 10 Hz noise.
The base of the transistor is also low impedance. But I am guessing you would see the 10 Hz clocking mixed with whatever other signals you find if you connected your oscilloscope to the base of Q1.
This is not to say the 10 Hz is a gold signal or gold frequency, only to say that it is not impossible that this 10 Hz could be transferred to the signal at Q1.
It still seems strange to send the two signals to a single transistor. When we look at it, we see these are two different kinds of noise signals being combined... broadband VLF and circuit noise... combined to be amplified. :???:
Best wishes,
J_P
Hi J_P.
The unknown capacitor C20 has capacity 10nF. So the two signals are mixed to Q1 via two 10nF capacitors
Regards:)
FrancoItaly
01-05-2011, 10:28 AM
Hi J_Player
We can consider the brass rod and the gold leaf as a capacitor and so the 10 Hz signal it is overlapped on the 27V. The "gold signal" it can exceed in amplitude the threshold and it may be revealed. The other signals are under the threshold of 27V and they are revealed only if they are big or very near...
Best regards
Hi J_P.
The unknown capacitor C20 has capacity 10nF. So the two signals are mixed to Q1 via two 10nF capacitors
Regards:)
Everything in this circuit reminds me so much of the PD :rolleyes:
Good question ... and one I've asked you many times in the past.
You will still do it many times in the future.:lol:
Everything in this circuit reminds me so much of the PD :rolleyes:
I agree. Specially the skepthics circuit analysis.
Qiaozhi
01-05-2011, 12:25 PM
You will still do it many times in the future.:lol:
As long as you continue to rush into wild [and totally incorrect) conclusions without even a shred of evidence, and to promote pseudo-science, then "yes" you can expect me to ask the same question again in the future ... and [as always] you will sidestep the answer. :p
Theseus
01-05-2011, 01:01 PM
As long as you continue to rush into wild [and totally incorrect) conclusions without even a shred of evidence, and to promote pseudo-science, then "yes" you can expect me to ask the same question again in the future ... and [as always] you will sidestep the answer. :p
A new year, but very little changes in the world of Hung and his pseudoscience. Still the same old crap. :D
A new year, but very little changes in the world of Hung and his pseudoscience. Still the same old crap. :D
I did not know that mental handicapeds could notice changes in dates. How could you do it?
I did not know that mental handicapeds could notice changes in dates. How could you do it?
I am sure Thesus will take some of his time to explain you how it works, then with some work you will be able to progress too and move from your middle age beliefs.
Exactly.
Nobody would connect 27v to the base of the transistor. But there is a capacitor of unknown value to allow spikes to pass to the base of Q1. Remembering that Q1 is the first stage of amplification of the big loop, the question then becomes... what kind of spike could come from the rod at the end of the ion chamber to combine with the loop signal?
When we look at the ion chamber, it appears to have a ground and a gold leaf that is connected to a 5v square wave at 10 Hz. The brass rod connected to Q1 is separated from the gold leaf conductor by about 1/2 cm.
Does the 5v square wave pass to Q1 via C20? Is there some inductive or capacitive coupling between the gold leaf and the brass rod? Maybe EMI from the edges of the square wave?
What about the noise from the square wave switching in the Atmel processor located inside the big loop?
I remember picking up calculator clocking from a smaller loop at 5 cm distance from the calculator.
In fact I didn't need a loop. Any conductor the size of your thumb will work to pick up the pulses so I could display them on an oscilloscope.
I would imagine there is some artifact from the 10 Hz signal entering into the first stage simply because of the size of the big loop, and because this is the first stage of amplification before filters could lose the 10 Hz noise.
The biggest problem that stops us from picking up the 10 Hz is that it is such a tiny signal with no measurable power being consumed, and there are likely many sources of noise in the air much stronger than the 10 Hz noise.
The base of the transistor is also low impedance. But I am guessing you would see the 10 Hz clocking mixed with whatever other signals you find if you connected your oscilloscope to the base of Q1.
This is not to say the 10 Hz is a gold signal or gold frequency, only to say that it is not impossible that this 10 Hz could be transferred to the signal at Q1.
It still seems strange to send the two signals to a single transistor. When we look at it, we see these are two different kinds of noise signals being combined... broadband VLF and circuit noise... combined to be amplified. :???:
Best wishes,
J_P
Hi J_P.
Between the electrodes of black and red wires of the champer there is a small capacity (few pico). Maybe to use the square pulses via the electrode capacitance and the input capacitors to stimulate the loop
Regards:)
J_Player
01-05-2011, 11:47 PM
Hi J_P.
Between the electrodes of black and red wires of the champer there is a small capacity (few pico). Maybe to use the square pulses via the electrode capacitance and the input capacitors to stimulate the loop
Regards:)Yes, maybe a few pf is enough to send the 10 Hz to the input of Q1. As long as the noise in the air is not too strong to make the 10 Hz seem invisible.
Now we finally see the design ideas of Mineoro. Fred was correct. The design seems a lot like the pistol detector.
When we look at the design, we see the same design concept we found in the pistol detector, and using the same kind of details including a beep circuit.
This was definitely started as an Alonso design.
But what happened?
Did Damasio think the passive receiver was not good enough to find gold without adding the ion chamber?
I am now wondering... When Alonso came to the Mineoro factory and showed his PD working, did Damasio decide it is too simple... only a passive receiver?
Did Damasio decide it must have some strange ion chamber that nobody can understand added so people will believe it is very advanced?
According to Mineoro theory, the ion chamber is where passionate love ions crash to leave evidence of their love and make spikes of femto and atto seconds that are detected in their "sensitive electronics".
And we see the sensitive Mineoro electronics is Q1 = BC548...
Wait a minute... BC548 is a cheap general purpose transistor. How can it detect femto or atto second pulses?
I think somebody was telling false stories :nono:
Maybe it is ok to tell false stories.
Car dealers sometimes tell false stories about the cars they sell...
How can you sell plastic sprinkler pipe and tiny gold leaf things for more than 5000 euros if not telling false stories?
As long as I am not the buyer who expects to find treasure... no problem for me to read false stories about cheap transistors finding femto and atto second pulses that are encoded with gold DNA. :rolleyes:
Was this design change intended to conceal the passive VLF receiver, and confuse people into thinking gold signals are blended into the VLF loop signal?
Was the ion chamber circuit added to make it appear the Mineoro design is so advanced that no EE can figure out what it is supposed to do?
Did Damasio add the ion chamber to the circuit to try to fool people into thinking the Mineoro locator is too advanced for anyone to understand... and it worked on the "love ion crashing" principle?
It would seem ok to me if Alonso added silly circuits as long as the main circuit still works and finds treasure.
But from what we see, the performance of the Alonso VLF receiver was destroyed after adding the ion chamber circuit.
The performance was changed from 2 meters to no meters unless you are really lucky. :nono:
We have heard from Morgan that the PD works for 2 meter detection, but the Mineoro locators do not work at all unless you are searching at a very lucky time.
Geo also confirmed it was the lucky day when the Mineoro can work. Geo does not waste his time to try to build a Mineoro design locator.
It appears that adding the "ion chamber" had the effect of deteriorating the 2 meter detection range of the Alonso VLF receiver design.
How can people believe the ion chamber is sensing positive and negative love ions destroying themselves when the locator does not work in the field?
Maybe this is the reason why Mineoro removed the "Romeo and Juliet love ion" theory from their page.
Was this locator designed to only work near the Mineoro factory testing grounds, and for friends of the people who work at the Mineoro factory... but not work for anyone else? :nono:
Only a few people have built the Alonso PD without any ion chamber, and found the 2 meter detection. We do not see people wasting their time to build the Mineoro version with ion chamber.
In fact, most people do not spend the time to build the Alonso passive receiver. Most of the electronic LRL experimenters are using oscillators to send VLF/ELF signals in their search fields.
Thank you for the schematic, Geo.
Do you think anyone will use it to make a treasure locator?
Best wishes, :)
J_P
WOW... What a story.
Can you tell us the amazing story of this one here too?
Yes, maybe a few pf is enough to send the 10 Hz to the input of Q1.
Doubtful. The capacitive reactance of a few pF to a 10 Hz signal and even it's 7th harmonic is way too high to inject any meaningful signal into Q1.
J_Player
01-06-2011, 02:31 AM
Doubtful. The capacitive reactance of a few pF to a 10 Hz signal and even it's 7th harmonic is way too high to inject any meaningful signal into Q1.That's how I see it too.
But then I remember watching the clock signal from a 3v calculator on an oscilloscope including the voltage rise and fall, picked up with a 3 inch dia loop of speaker wire held up to 5 cm away from the calculator.
After moving more than 5 cm away, the calculator signal became too weak to see in the noise that the probe was picking up from the air (done outdoors away from electronics except the oscilloscope).
I also saw this same signal a little cleaner when using a 3 cm square aluminum foil in an alligator clip held up to 5 cm away from the calculator.
I confirmed this was indeed the calculator signal by checking the actual signal on the circuit board. The actual signal was the same, but stronger, and without the artifacts that tended to change the wave shapes.
For most common calculators, I saw square waves that ranged from about 30 Hz to nearly 600 Hz. When measuring from the circuit board, these square waves were clear, and not nearly buried in all kinds of sine wave noise from the air that ranged from AF to RF.
At first I thought it might be EMI I was seeing from the rise and fall times of the clocking, which showed some minor ringing at the edges. But the high and low voltages were preserved, albeit in reduced amplitude.
So it was not simply EMI from the rising and falling edges. When holding a 3 cm square plate at a distance more than 2-3 cm in the air, the capacitance is in the extremely small ranges where we would not expect any capacitive coupling that could be seen on an oscilloscope.
You can try it yourself. You can probably pick up the calculator clocking by simply connecting an alligator clip to the end of your probe and moving it around the calculator to see where the strong areas are.
(Strongest places I found were close to the display and just below it where the processor is). It seems to me the calculator clocking at 3v around 30Hz is not so much different than the Atmel 5v signal clocking at 10 Hz.
Any ideas of what caused the calculator clocking signal to transfer through a few cm of air to the oscilloscope probe?
Best wishes,
J_P
Yes, maybe a few pf is enough to send the 10 Hz to the input of Q1. As long as the noise in the air is not too strong to make the 10 Hz seem invisible.
Now we finally see the design ideas of Mineoro. Fred was correct. The design seems a lot like the pistol detector.
When we look at the design, we see the same design concept we found in the pistol detector, and using the same kind of details including a beep circuit.
This was definitely started as an Alonso design.
Thank you for the schematic, Geo.
Do you think anyone will use it to make a treasure locator?
Best wishes, :)
J_P
Hi J_P.
I don't know if anyone will use the schematic to construct a Mineoro clone .
Maybe anyone can make a small modification to it and to experiment with it.
Minime said that his version (very small diferences) is based on a ferrite and coil in the position of ion champer.
The basic reason that i post the schematic here is because::::
I learned a lot of things from this site, so i wanted to put a "small stone" to this building, to Carl's building.....the Geotech1!!!!
Regards
J_Player
01-06-2011, 07:32 AM
Hi J_P.
I don't know if anyone will use the schematic to construct a Mineoro clone .
Maybe anyone can make a small modification to it and to experiment with it.
Minime said that his version (very small diferences) is based on a ferrite and coil in the position of ion champer.
The basic reason that i post the schematic here is because::::
I learned a lot of things from this site, so i wanted to put a "small stone" to this building, to Carl's building.....the Geotech1!!!!
RegardsThank you Geo,
I won't use this schematic to make a treasure locator either. But already I had lots of fun studying the Mineoro theories and circuit design methods.
You are correct. We can learn much about what the Mineoro factory is thinking from looking at the circuit. :)
We see Dr. hung cannot give any believable answers to the questions I asked. Instead he tries to trick people into playing his stupid circuit games.
Should we conclude that Dr. hung has the same opinion of the Mineoro circuit operation as we read on the old Mineoro pages before they removed them? :rolleyes:
Best wishes, :)
J_P
Qiaozhi
01-06-2011, 07:46 AM
We see Dr. hung cannot give any believable answers to the questions I asked. Instead he tries to trick people into playing his stupid circuit games.
Should we conclude that Dr. hung has the same opinion of the Mineoro circuit operation as we read on the old Mineoro pages before they removed them? :rolleyes:
It appears that Dr Hung is finding this thread too difficult to follow, and has had to revert back to very basic circuit theory. Unfortunately he has not yet learned which way round to put the LED symbol, so he used a big black blob instead to cover up his lack of knowledge. :shocked:
Thank you Geo,
I won't use this schematic to make a treasure locator either. But already I had lots of fun studying the Mineoro theories and circuit design methods.
You are correct. We can learn much about what the Mineoro factory is thinking from looking at the circuit. :)
We see Dr. hung cannot give any believable answers to the questions I asked. Instead he tries to trick people into playing his stupid circuit games.
Should we conclude that Dr. hung has the same opinion of the Mineoro circuit operation as we read on the old Mineoro pages before they removed them? :rolleyes:
Best wishes, :)
J_P
-
It appears that Dr Hung is finding this thread too difficult to follow, and has had to revert back to very basic circuit theory. Unfortunately he has not yet learned which way round to put the LED symbol, so he used a big black blob instead to cover up his lack of knowledge. :shocked:
Don't even recognize an animated model in Proteus?:lol:
Don't even recognize an animated model in Proteus?:lol:
Mineoros can be animated in Proteus? You mean animaled?
FrancoItaly
01-06-2011, 11:32 AM
HiJ_player
Perhaps you are right, if we look for the 10M resistor between the brass rod and the 27V, the very low impedance of the BC548 it can destroy any picoampere signal and so this appears as a gadget without any usefullness. In my tests for picoampere or picovolt signal I use TL081 or CA3130 not sure a bipolar transistor.
Best regards
Hung science: He "explains":
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/tesla_coil.png
HiJ_player
Perhaps you are right, if we look for the 10M resistor between the brass rod and the 27V, the very low impedance of the BC548 it can destroy any picoampere signal and so this appears as a gadget without any usefullness. In my tests for picoampere or picovolt signal I use TL081 or CA3130 not sure a bipolar transistor.
Best regards
Hello my friend Franco. I'm sorry to inform you that contrary to your belief, this has a specific purpose indeed.
Also, the schematic has some errors.
But I guess I have already talked too much.:)
Qiaozhi
01-06-2011, 12:07 PM
Also, the schematic has some errors.
Hmmm ... this seems to be a common theme. :rolleyes:
But I guess I have already talked too much.:)
You could say that. :lol:
It's time for you give up. You're fighting a losing battle. ... and still no-one is leaping to your defense.
Think about it. :shrug:
Morning Ozzy.
Hope your eyes are better today.
Do you usually need someone defending you?
Qiaozhi
01-06-2011, 12:25 PM
Morning Ozzy.
Hope your eyes are better today.
Do you usually need someone defending you?
1/10 for effort. :frown:
FrancoItaly
01-06-2011, 12:42 PM
Hi Hung
I don't say that Mineoro is not working, I think that the phenomenon is real and I have verified this in tests with my instruments, I think also that there are many approachs to make an LRL. I don't know if there are somme errors in Geo' schemas and I can only reason on what I see and the gold sensor sure it seems not very orthodox, elettronically speakink, but on the other hand I have build strange antenna that caused some improvements in my Lrl.
Best regards
Hi Hung
I don't say that Mineoro is not working, I think that the phenomenon is real and I have verified this in tests with my instruments, I think also that there are many approachs to make an LRL. I don't know if there are somme errors in Geo' schemas and I can only reason on what I see and the gold sensor sure it seems not very orthodox, elettronically speakink, but on the other hand I have build strange antenna that caused some improvements in my Lrl.
Best regards
Hi Franco,
The simple fact that you have decided to build your own device means that you believe the aproach of long range detection of objects is possible.
I say that it's not only possible but a reality.
I wish you the best of luck and success with your LRL.:thumb:
I say that it's not only possible but a reality.
Maybe it is reality in Alaska, but for shure not in South America, especially not in Mineoro Hacienda.
FrancoItaly
01-06-2011, 04:38 PM
Hi WM6
Did you have realized some instruments or tests respect lrl ? Or your convictions are based only on your knowledge of phisic and electronic ? I don't want to convince you, the same way as Esteban, Morgan, Geo or Hung. We have spent much time for experiments and tests, personally I have realized more than 10 pistol and I have been helped a lot by Esteban and non by private E-mail but by what was in our forum. I admit, I have build the "Morgan" pistol and it don't work for me, but I don't say that it doesn't work for Morgan. I think that it's very critical and only the person that he know the original he can make a working clone. But this was only a point of departure because I thought that in any case there was something true.
Best regards
J_Player
01-06-2011, 05:15 PM
Hi Hung
I don't say that Mineoro is not working, I think that the phenomenon is real and I have verified this in tests with my instruments, I think also that there are many approachs to make an LRL. I don't know if there are somme errors in Geo' schemas and I can only reason on what I see and the gold sensor sure it seems not very orthodox, elettronically speakink, but on the other hand I have build strange antenna that caused some improvements in my Lrl.
Best regardsHi FrancoItaly,
Have you found good success with some Mineoro locator?
The reports I have read say the Mineoro locators were seen to work at the Mineoro factory demonstration area and at locations close to it... but at locations very far away from the factory, Mineoro locators do not work.
I read many stories of treasure recovery from people in Brazil and Paraguay. But I also read where Esteban says the Mineoro locators do not work as well as his experimental locators in Paraguay.
What happens when we move away from the Mineoro factory and friends of people who work at the factory?
I read reports of no detection of treasure in the USA, and very poor or no performance in Mexico.
I read no reports of treasure recovery using Mineoro in Canada, USSR, China, Korea, Japan, or Australia.
It seems the greater distance you travel from the Mineoro demonstration yard, the less stories you hear about Mineoro locating treasures.
We see Morgan reports only on a lucky day they find any detection using Mineoro in Portugal. And his simple passive receiver always works better than Mineoro.
In Greece, we find even less detection. Greek experimenters do not take the time to make clones of Mineoro locators.
The story I read is some people have found evidence of a phenomenon, but Mineoros cannot locate this phenomenon except when near the Mineoro factory testing grounds, or when you are a friend of the people who work at the Mineoro factory. The reports I read say Mineoro will not work at all unless you are very lucky to find a day when the Mineoro is not making random beeps or silence.
And if you find a lucky day when it is working, it will give poor performance.
I also see some evidence of a phenomenon associated with long time buried treasure. But I don't see believable evidence that Mineoro locators can find any buried treasure or any fresh gold from a long range. Maybe the Mineoro locator will show similar poor performance in Italy.
Or am I wrong?
Have you seen Mineoro locators working in Italy to find treasures at long range?
Best wishes,
J_P
Hi J_P.
Now all are simple, very simple.
All the story with this detectors is the passive receivers who can detect the static fields. All are the same or about the same. So with good conditions they have the ability to locate an old buried object. But only with very good conditions and if the object has made a topic field.....
We see the same story.....
The first pistols from Alonso, the second pistols or DCH85 and the third pistols inside large box the Mineoro PDC... FG...etc. All are a passive receiver as Alonso Pistol who own Morgan.
At Greece there is a person who made Mineoro clones but with some modifications as he says, but the results from the persons who bought them are not good. I am sure that there are LRLs who works very good and with every condition but they work on other principle.....
Regards:)
J_Player
01-06-2011, 06:26 PM
Hi J_P.
Now all are simple, very simple.
All the story with this detectors is the passive receivers who can detect the static fields. All are the same or about the same. So with good conditions they have the ability to locate an old buried object. But only with very good conditions and if the object has made a topic field.....
We see the same story.....
The first pistols from Alonso, the second pistols or DCH85 and the third pistols inside large box the Mineoro PDC... FG...etc. All are a passive receiver as Alonso Pistol who own Morgan.
At Greece there is a person who made Mineoro clones but with some modifications as he says, but the results from the persons who bought them are not good. I am sure that there are LRLs who works very good and with every condition but they work on other principle.....
Regards:)Hi Geo,
I see you have concluded the passive receiver is the working circuit that helps to find buried things. This is the same idea as Geologists use for their VLF receivers to find buried things when they make their surveys. I see Geologists also use signal generators to broadcast at their search field for their receivers if there is no available signal.
It seems to me your LRL ides is not too much different than the Geologists idea for locating things buried in the ground. In your case, you have modified the kinds of equipment that geologists use to be a small pistol that is easy to carry. But it is certain your idea is not to use the principle of "love ions" crashing to make femto and atto second pulses. I believe you would find better success with dowsing than with "love ions". :)
Best wishes,
J_P
Hi J_P.
Don't forget that i am also good at dowsing!!!!:lol::lol:
Regards:)
I think that it's very critical and only the person that he know the original he can make a working clone.
Hi FrancoItaly
All originals are very known and there is nothing serious to clone.
Such view (Like: only one person know last LRL secrets) is mystical approach and don't suit serious researcher.
Such mystical approach suit only scammers like mineoro and rangertell. They need it to scam business continuation.
If you use electronic in dowsing rod, you use known science, nothing mystical. So if it does not work, there is nothing mystical too. It is very simple: it does not work. And no mineoros funny boxes, no rangertell calculator sticks and no other scam crap, does work as claimed. No one (except in his fraudulent videos).
But if you need some mystical for your soul, you can find it. Everywhere. In electronic dowsing rods too.
I wish you good luck with your dowsing and be careful to not over-dowse your life.
Morgan
01-06-2011, 11:45 PM
Hi J_P.
Now all are simple, very simple.
All the story with this detectors is the passive receivers who can detect the static fields. All are the same or about the same. So with good conditions they have the ability to locate an old buried object. But only with very good conditions and if the object has made a topic field.....
We see the same story.....
The first pistols from Alonso, the second pistols or DCH85 and the third pistols inside large box the Mineoro PDC... FG...etc. All are a passive receiver as Alonso Pistol who own Morgan.
At Greece there is a person who made Mineoro clones but with some modifications as he says, but the results from the persons who bought them are not good. I am sure that there are LRLs who works very good and with every condition but they work on other principle.....
Regards:)
Yes,you are correct.
Remember that Esteban found jesuitic treasure with Andy Flind E.M.F circuit...
J_Player
01-06-2011, 11:46 PM
Hi FrancoItaly
All originals are very known and there is nothing serious to clone.
Such view (Like: only one person know last LRL secrets) is mystical approach and don't suit serious researcher.
Such mystical approach suit only scammers like mineoro and rangertell. They need it to scam business continuation.
If you use electronic in dowsing rod, you use known science, nothing mystical. So if it does not work, there is nothing mystical too. It is very simple: it does not work. And no mineoros funny boxes, no rangertell calculator sticks and no other scam crap, does work as claimed. No one (except in his fraudulent videos).
But if you need some mystical for your soul, you can find it. Everywhere. In electronic dowsing rods too.
I wish you good luck with your dowsing and be careful to not over-dowse your life.Hi WM6,
From what I heard, there are 3 people who know the secret to make the Alonso PD work, and a fourth person who stumbled on it by accident, but does not fully comprehend how to make it work.
From what I heard, the secret is not unlike adjusting the coils in a DD coil metal detector, except it is much more difficult, and requires taking the detector away from all buildings, metal things and electric things for final tuning. If the proper tuning procedure is followed, the PD is said to become reliable at detecting gold from 2 meters, and maybe more if lucky. For a VLF DD metal detector, we can expect maybe 25 cm range if well tuned. But if the DD coils and circuits are not tuned correctly, maybe 5 cm and much false signals... :oh:
Think about it... if you saw the schematic for the TGS metal detector and built it with a DD coil using only the information you see on the schematic, you would not find the detection distance that Max or Ivconic found.
But if you read the detailed instructions for tuning the circuits and the coils, you will have a good chance to see good detection range from the TGS.
Why would it be different for the PD?
Best wishes,
J_P
J_Player
01-07-2011, 12:00 AM
Hi J_P.
Don't forget that i am also good at dowsing!!!!:lol::lol:
Regards:)Of course...
But opposite ions are also good at loving... same as Romeo and Juliet...! :lol:
Best wishes,
J_P
Why would it be different for the PD?
Best wishes,
J_P
Hi J_P
it is nothing different.
Good constructor of PD can maybe reach (tunned in Brazilian jungle) 25 cm for some targets, others not so experienced maybe at best 13cm. The rest to 3 or 10 kilometers exist only in sweet dowsers dreams.
Morgan
01-07-2011, 12:03 AM
Hi WM6,
From what I heard, there are 3 people who know the secret to make the Alonso PD work, and a fourth person who stumbled on it by accident, but does not fully comprehend how to make it work.
From what I heard, the secret is not unlike adjusting the coils in a DD coil metal detector, except it is much more difficult, and requires taking the detector away from all buildings, metal things and electric things for final tuning. If the proper tuning procedure is followed, the PD is said to become reliable at detecting gold from 2 meters, and maybe more if lucky. For a VLF DD metal detector, we can expect maybe 25 cm range if well tuned. But if the DD coils and circuits are not tuned correctly, maybe 5 cm... :oh:
Think about it... if you saw the schematic for the TGS metal detector and built it with a DD coil with only the information you see on the schematic, you would not find the detection distance that Max or Ivconic found. But if you read the detailed instructions for tuning the circuits and the coils, you will have a good chance to see good detection range from the TGS.
Why would it be different for the PD?
Best wishes,
J_P
No J_P
the PD is better than you think. Two meters on very little objects (1gr gold nugget) ,7 m five silver coins inside one pot, 15 m or 20 m silver hoard 80 cm buried,and so many other objects found. I think this is the UNIQUE working LRL (detection of coin size objects) post here in this forum.
Other LRL´s posted here can work but demands BIG amount of precious metal...
What Geo saw in Portugal was just a simple demonstration ,becouse we dont have time for more...
Two meters on very little objects (1gr gold nugget) ,7 m five silver coins inside one pot, 15 m or 20 m silver hoard 80 cm buried,and so many other objects found. I think this is the UNIQUE working LRL (detection of coin size objects) post here in this forum.
Hi Morgan,
problem with all your target is that it was known objects.
This fact make all tests invalid.
With unknown target there was completely different story.
J_Player
01-07-2011, 12:11 AM
No J_P
the PD is better than you think. Two meters on very little objects (1gr gold nugget) ,7 m five silver coins inside one pot, 15 m or 20 m silver hoard 80 cm buried,and so many other objects found. I think this is the UNIQUE working LRL (detection of coin size objects) post here in this forum.
Other LRL´s posted here can work but demands BIG amount of precious metal...
What Geo saw in Portugal was just a simple demonstration ,becouse we dont have time for more...Hi Morgan,
When I saw 2 meters detection, I was surprised. This is more than I expected to see on a video. But from what I saw, and from what I heard from Geo, I think the PD was detecting a gold medal from 2 meters.
It is too bad you do not have time to make a video of your PD detecting treasure at 7m reliably so we can all see how it really works for 7m.
If we see convincing evidence, then we will say it can detect to 7 meters reliably, not 2 meters. But we did not see this evidence....
So the printed words remain that the PD is said to detect reliably at 2 meters distance.
Still this is a good detection distance when compared to a VLF or PI metal detector. :)
Maybe if you find time to make a convincing video of 7 meters reliable detection, then we will begin to believe it can find treasure at this distance.
Best wishes,
J_P
J_Player
01-07-2011, 12:18 AM
Hi J_P
it is nothing different.
Good constructor of PD can maybe reach (tunned in Brazilian jungle) 25 cm for some targets, others not so experienced maybe at best 13cm. The rest to 3 or 10 kilometers exist only in sweet dowsers dreams.Hi WM6,
The distance of detection I saw on videos of the PD is 2 meters, not 25 cm. I saw a video of the PD find unknown targets at 2 meters. This makes me think that people who do not find 2 meters detection distance from the PD do not know the tips for proper tuning. But this is only what I think. Maybe you will have a chance to see the Geo PD find treasure things at 2 meter distance when you visit, and to change your thinking. Or maybe you will not see 2 meter detection and keep your same thinking.
Best wishes,
J_P
FrancoItaly
01-07-2011, 09:58 AM
Hi J_Player
I have no tried Mineoro, I say that the phenomenon is real and very probably Mineoro works because it was the founder and the discoverer of the phenomenom. My concern is regard the lack of a TR stage/TR coil and perhaps this is the cause of bad working in Europe. What has prompted me to continue it was the "compass o sky" effect in "Morgan" PD and in my first pistols, it was very strange but it showed that an unconventional signal existed in the air and over the ground. This phenomenom was in all the place that I tested.
For WM6
No dowsing system im my pistols, also if I can dowse in some manner, but this is another theme...
Best regards
I got an idea:
Let´s admit there is a halo effect, similar to an anomaly in the electrostatic field above earth.
Let´s admit this effect is destroyed by an electromagnetic field, like Esteban and others said before.
Then to detect it and only it (but not its natural variations), we need to measure it, then send an impulse via a coil, then measure it again, to detect any variation.
If something has changed, then there was a "halo" around here.
If only the natural field changes, it will not be affected by the coil impulse.
Many "if´s" , but it´s an idea.... if it works, it´s a great idea :p:razz:
J_Player
01-07-2011, 02:54 PM
Hi J_Player
I have no tried Mineoro, I say that the phenomenon is real and very probably Mineoro works because it was the founder and the discoverer of the phenomenom. My concern is regard the lack of a TR stage/TR coil and perhaps this is the cause of bad working in Europe.
Best regardsWe hear reports of bad working in Europe, Asia, Central America, North America, Australia, and the USSR. It seems whenever you go away from the factory testing grounds or Paraguay, You hear many reports of bad working. If you remember, Alonso developed the PD. Wasn't Damasio the person who modified it to put the ion chamber and remove the IB section? Did someone make a decision to reduce the performance of the Alonso design, similar to the way Minelab does not use all their best circuits in any single metal detector? Is it possible Mineoro only works for people at the factory testing grounds and nearby, and for people who have friends who work at the Mineoro factory?
Best wishes,
J_P
FrancoItaly
01-07-2011, 03:12 PM
Hi Fred
My philosophy for my pistols it's to create AC magnetic field with an oscillator with a TR coil, frequency from 60 to 150 Khz, and RX coil in IB configuration, the same as "Morgan" PD, but with a small printed board as antenna instead of ferrite rod. My design is completely different from "Morgan" PD, I use retune circuit and slow motion circuit. But the principle of operation is to look for a little change in the RX stage and to remove "commpass/sky" effect in a similar manner as ground exclude.
Best regards
FrancoItaly
01-07-2011, 03:33 PM
Hi J_Player
For me isn't important if Mineoro works, I don't want to buy. The very important thing it's that the "phenomenon" is real. I think that the Alonzo PD is the real revolution in long range detecting and this may be obtained with usual techniques of metal detector design with few changes.
Best regards
J_Player
01-07-2011, 10:56 PM
Hi J_Player
For me isn't important if Mineoro works, I don't want to buy. The very important thing it's that the "phenomenon" is real. I think that the Alonzo PD is the real revolution in long range detecting and this may be obtained with usual techniques of metal detector design with few changes.
Best regardsHi FrancoItaly,
The phenomenon has never been defined.
We have heard many stories of how long time buried metal things can have a halo from people who use metal detectors. Then after digging the metal things, the halo is gone.
Is the halo a phenomenon? I think so. If it is not a phenomenon, then hundreds of metal detectorists are all wrong when they report they got a really strong signal from a simple coin, and the strong signal became normal after digging it. Even I have seen this halo effect on non-ferrous metal objects on a few occasions.
But halo seen when using a metal detector to find a coin is only one property of "phenomenon".
We also hear many other reports of different "phenomenon" properties.
For example I have read these explanations of what happens to long time buried metal...
Some descriptions of the long time buried metal phenomenon told in the Geotech forums:
1. The buried metal releases ions into the ground
2. The buried metal releases ions into the air that can be measured with ion detectors
3. The buried metal becomes a ground battery that can be detected with resistivity or current sensing ground probes.
4. The buried metal vibrates mechanically and can be detected with acoustic equipment.
5. The buried metal sends out EM waves that can be detected with a receiver.
6. The buried metal will vibrate if an oscillator is set to send the correct AF or ELF frequency for the kind of metal that is buried. This vibration can be detected in a receiver.
7. The buried metal will show its location if you shine an IR LED on the ground above it with a chopper circuit. The location can be determined by watching for a change in the chopper circuit sending the LED power.
8. The buried metal will cause a change in the electrostatic properties of the air above where it is buried that can be detected with an electrostatic detector.
9. The buried metal will send out signal lines that can be picked up by any equipment capable of detecting signal lines.
10. The buried metal will wait for a carrier signal line to be shot to it, then the metal will return the carrier signal line where it can be detected by the LRL user.
11. The buried metal will make its location known biologically to all conscious animals in the area (in a radionic kind of way). For those not in tune to their inner selves, they may not be able to sense the location. But others will be able to sense the location from long distance, using only a map and a thread and needle.
There are more descriptions of what the "phenomenon" is, but nobody has defined it as a single consistent phenomenon that can be explained in a way that is understandable, and which has not been proven to be impossible. We get conflicting descriptions from people who believe the "phenomenon" exists. And we also get conflicting information from people who believe it does not exist.... ie: Metal detectorists such as Max who say LRLs and "phenomenon" are BS, also say they are sure halo is real. Isn't halo also an unexplained "phenomenon" we see from long time buried metal? :???:
If "phenomenon" simply means unusual phenomenon that happens when metal is buried a long time, then halo is "the phenomenon" same as buried metals releasing ions is "the phenomenon". In fact any thing a person wanted to make up could be "the phenomenon", such as "a cloud of gold ions floats in the air above buried gold"... whether it is true or not. In order to determine what the "phenomenon" is, we must first consider which of the "phenomenon" descriptions we have been reading about are true, and which are false, tricks of the mind, or made up theories. If the phenomenon described is real, then it can be reliably detected repeatably by different people in different places in the world, not only in the Mineoro demonstration yard and by friends of people who work at the Mineoro factory.
Best wishes,
J_P
Hi J_P
if one can sell crappy boxes for + 10.000 dollars then this can be treated as very real phenomenon.
Morgan
01-08-2011, 12:04 AM
Hi Fred
My philosophy for my pistols it's to create AC magnetic field with an oscillator with a TR coil, frequency from 60 to 150 Khz, and RX coil in IB configuration, the same as "Morgan" PD, but with a small printed board as antenna instead of ferrite rod. My design is completely different from "Morgan" PD, I use retune circuit and slow motion circuit. But the principle of operation is to look for a little change in the RX stage and to remove "commpass/sky" effect in a similar manner as ground exclude.
Best regards
Hello
The Alonso´s PD start the SKY EFECT when sensitivity is more than the limit. Detection of precious metals and aluminium start in one point before the sky efect. The adition of one analogical meter(instead of original LED) help to control this specific adjustment .
Good luck with your LRL project.
Morgan
01-08-2011, 12:12 AM
Hi FrancoItaly,
The phenomenon has never been defined.
We have heard many stories of how long time buried metal things can have a halo from people who use metal detectors. Then after digging the metal things, the halo is gone.
Is the halo a phenomenon? I think so. If it is not a phenomenon, then hundreds of metal detectorists are all wrong when they report they got a really strong signal from a simple coin, and the strong signal became normal after digging it. Even I have seen this halo effect on non-ferrous metal objects on a few occasions.
But halo seen when using a metal detector to find a coin is only one property of "phenomenon".
We also hear many other reports of different "phenomenon" properties.
For example I have read these explanations of what happens to long time buried metal...
Some descriptions of the long time buried metal phenomenon told in the Geotech forums:
1. The buried metal releases ions into the ground
2. The buried metal releases ions into the air that can be measured with ion detectors
3. The buried metal becomes a ground battery that can be detected with resistivity or current sensing ground probes.
4. The buried metal vibrates mechanically and can be detected with acoustic equipment.
5. The buried metal sends out EM waves that can be detected with a receiver.
6. The buried metal will vibrate if an oscillator is set to send the correct AF or ELF frequency for the kind of metal that is buried. This vibration can be detected in a receiver.
7. The buried metal will show its location if you shine an IR LED on the ground above it with a chopper circuit. The location can be determined by watching for a change in the chopper circuit sending the LED power.
8. The buried metal will cause a change in the electrostatic properties of the air above where it is buried that can be detected with an electrostatic detector.
9. The buried metal will send out signal lines that can be picked up by any equipment capable of detecting signal lines.
10. The buried metal will wait for a carrier signal line to be shot to it, then the metal will return the carrier signal line where it can be detected by the LRL user.
11. The buried metal will make its location known biologically to all conscious animals in the area (in a radionic kind of way). For those not in tune to their inner selves, they may not be able to sense the location. But others will be able to sense the location from long distance, using only a map and a thread and needle.
There are more descriptions of what the "phenomenon" is, but nobody has defined it as a single consistent phenomenon that can be explained in a way that is understandable, and which has not been proven to be impossible. We get conflicting descriptions from people who believe the "phenomenon" exists. And we also get conflicting information from people who believe it does not exist.... ie: Metal detectorists such as Max who say LRLs and "phenomenon" are BS, also say they are sure halo is real. Isn't halo also an unexplained "phenomenon" we see from long time buried metal? :???:
If "phenomenon" simply means unusual phenomenon that happens when metal is buried a long time, then halo is "the phenomenon" same as buried metals releasing ions is "the phenomenon". In fact any thing a person wanted to make up could be "the phenomenon", such as "a cloud of gold ions floats in the air above buried gold"... whether it is true or not. In order to determine what the "phenomenon" is, we must first consider which of the "phenomenon" descriptions we have been reading about are true, and which are false, tricks of the mind, or made up theories. If the phenomenon described is real, then it can be reliably detected repeatably by different people in different places in the world, not only in the Mineoro demonstration yard and by friends of people who work at the Mineoro factory.
Best wishes,
J_P
Yes,PHENOMENON is REALITY same as our world is round not square...
14201
Morgan
01-08-2011, 12:19 AM
Hi J_P
if one can sell crappy boxes for + 10.000 dollars then this can be treated as very real phenomenon.
Even if MINEORO boxes can work as LRL for big treasure,the big price is completly wrong.
If MINEORO boxes works as they claim,example one gold coin 30 m distance,this 10.000 $ are the correct paiment,becouse this LRL device will bring treasures for the owner.
Unfortunatly reality is shows MINEORO is not good.
Hi Fred
My philosophy for my pistols it's to create AC magnetic field with an oscillator with a TR coil, frequency from 60 to 150 Khz, and RX coil in IB configuration, the same as "Morgan" PD, but with a small printed board as antenna instead of ferrite rod. My design is completely different from "Morgan" PD, I use retune circuit and slow motion circuit. But the principle of operation is to look for a little change in the RX stage and to remove "commpass/sky" effect in a similar manner as ground exclude.
Best regards
Hi Franco,
This look interesting, i hope you will find something measurable and share your results.
Even if the halo effect has not been explained, its reality seems to be accepted, so a halo (only) detector could be an interesting project - forgetting about the metal itself -
Good luck!
Even if the halo effect has not been explained, its reality seems to be accepted, so a halo (only) detector could be an interesting project - forgetting about the metal itself -
!
Hi Fred
you cannot eliminate halo effect from targets signals. It is about the same signal.
Its suit not-dividable together and work in connection with mineralized soil like an enlarged SW antenna.
If you take SW antenna (target) away, antenna enlargement alone don't work anymore.
If you dig out long buried coin, halo effect disappear, because you break coin connection with soil which work by its crystalline structure as coin enlargement.
Our friend FrancoItaly done empty work. Sorry.
J_Player
01-08-2011, 01:27 AM
Hi Fred
you cannot eliminate halo effect from targets signals. It is about the same signal.
Its suit not-dividable together and work in connection with mineralized soil like an enlarged SW antenna.
If you take SW antenna (target) away, antenna enlargement alone don't work anymore.
If you dig out long buried coin, halo effect disappear, because you break coin connection with soil which work by its crystalline structure as coin enlargement.
Our friend FrancoItaly done empty work. Sorry.... More conflicting information about halos... which proves once again that there is a lot of misinformation being passed as facts.
Be sure to do your homework and check if you are reading facts or made-up theories before you accept written stories about halos or "phenomenon".
Best wishes,
J_P
Hi Fred
you cannot eliminate halo effect from targets signals. It is about the same signal.
Hi WM6,
What i meant is that no to care about the metal, but focusing in detecting "halos" only - because they *may* be of different nature, even if produced by the metal.
aft_72005
01-08-2011, 03:20 AM
I got an idea:
Let´s admit there is a halo effect, similar to an anomaly in the electrostatic field above earth.
Let´s admit this effect is destroyed by an electromagnetic field, like Esteban and others said before.
Then to detect it and only it (but not its natural variations), we need to measure it, then send an impulse via a coil, then measure it again, to detect any variation.
If something has changed, then there was a "halo" around here.
If only the natural field changes, it will not be affected by the coil impulse.
Many "if´s" , but it´s an idea.... if it works, it´s a great idea :p:razz:
Hi fred
At first , I didn’t believe there are detection from long distance .
But as my experiment with real LRL , I could detect rusty nails at 30 cm deep
From 2-3 meter distance . age of nails around 60 years ago . I believe there are energy filed
Around long buried metals now .
J_Player
01-08-2011, 04:23 AM
Hi fred
At first , I didn’t believe there are detection from long distance .
But as my experiment with real LRL , I could detect rusty nails at 30 cm deep
From 2-3 meter distance . age of nails around 60 years ago . I believe there are energy filed
Around long buried metals now .Hi Aft,
I have seen many rusty nails and other long time buried rusty iron. These often make big signals which are believed to be caused by the conductive rust that accumulates in the ground around the iron object, to create more surface for eddy currents to form. On close examination, I have found some rusty iron objects have become separated into layers of laminated rust plates which may be creating separate eddy currents from each lamination of rust. I find rusty iron giving a larger than normal iron signal to be a common occurrence when hunting for buried metal.
However, there is also a halo effect that is seen very rarely in which non-ferrous metals that have been buried a long time (like coins buried more than 50 years, for example) give a signal maybe twice as strong as the same coin gives when detecting it in the air after you dig it up. In these cases, we can check the hole and find there is no other buried object giving a signal from the area of the hole or from the dirt we removed from the hole. Apparently the extra strong signal stopped being extra strong when we dig the hole.
What causes this halo for non-ferrous metals?
Nobody knows for sure. We hear many theories of why, but all we really know is a lot of people from all over the world report they have experienced this on rare occasions.
Best wishes,
J_P
Hi WM6,
From what I heard, there are 3 people who know the secret to make the Alonso PD work, and a fourth person who stumbled on it by accident, but does not fully comprehend how to make it work.
Best wishes,
J_P
Hi J_P
Can you tell us about the 3 persons who knows the seret to make the PD work????
Regards:)
Hi Morgan,
When I saw 2 meters detection, I was surprised. This is more than I expected to see on a video. But from what I saw, and from what I heard from Geo, I think the PD was detecting a gold medal from 2 meters.
It is too bad you do not have time to make a video of your PD detecting treasure at 7m reliably so we can all see how it really works for 7m.
If we see convincing evidence, then we will say it can detect to 7 meters reliably, not 2 meters. But we did not see this evidence....
So the printed words remain that the PD is said to detect reliably at 2 meters distance.
Still this is a good detection distance when compared to a VLF or PI metal detector. :)
Maybe if you find time to make a convincing video of 7 meters reliable detection, then we will begin to believe it can find treasure at this distance.
Best wishes,
J_P
When we found the silver paper at Portugal, the distance was 3m (very easy) from South to North and 1m from the other positions. So i believe that 7m is very easy for a big object and much years buried
Regards:)
J_Player
01-08-2011, 05:20 AM
When we found the silver paper at Portugal, the distance was 3m (very easy) from South to North and 1m from the other positions. So i believe that 7m is very easy for a big object and much years buried
Regards:)Hi Geo,
Maybe some day you will be able to make a video of the PD finding big objects from 7m very easy. If you can make some convincing videos, then maybe other people will believe too.
Best wishes, :)
J_P
J_Player
01-08-2011, 05:24 AM
Hi J_P
Can you tell us about the 3 persons who knows the seret to make the PD work????
Regards:)Hi Geo,
One of these three people is Alonso, the person who built the original Alonso PD. The other two I promised not to disclose any information about who they are, how they learned the method, or how they did their tuning.
But the 4th person who stumbled on it by accident is Morgan. His method may not have the refinements to give the same performance as the original Alonso PD, but he has produced working clones that we saw in a video to find metal in a known location from 2 meters.
Best wishes,
J_P
Hi Geo,
Maybe some day you will be able to make a video of the PD finding big objects from 7m very easy. If you can make some convincing videos, then maybe other people will believe too.
Best wishes, :)
J_P
Hi.
No.... sceptics will never believe to LRL (small... as PD). I remember before i visit Portugal.. that some sceptics said ... "(if Geo with Morgan will show a video we will believe). But you know the continuity.....:lol:.
Regards:)
J_Player
01-08-2011, 05:43 AM
Hi.
No.... sceptics will never believe to LRL (small... as PD). I remember before i visit Portugal.. that some sceptics said ... "(if Geo with Morgan will show a video we will believe). But you know the continuity.....:lol:.
Regards:)Hi Geo,
I am skeptical of all LRL stories. But after I saw the video you and Morgan made and I considered who made this video, I concluded there was no trick of hidden oscillators or fake beepers. I think the video was a true video. There are also many readers of Geotech forums who think the same as me, but you do not see them make posts in the forum. You only hear a few posts from people who have strong opinions that LRL is fake or LRL is true. Most people are simply skeptical, not fanatics. They think it does not work, but if they see a good convincing video they may change their mind. Same as you changed your mind after you see it working. But the best proof is when people see it working in front of them, not from a video. Then they will not care what skeptics say, they will believe what they see.
Best wishes,
J_P
Even if MINEORO boxes can work as LRL for big treasure,the big price is completly wrong.
If MINEORO boxes works as they claim,example one gold coin 30 m distance,this 10.000 $ are the correct paiment,becouse this LRL device will bring treasures for the owner.
Unfortunatly reality is shows MINEORO is not good.
How much do you think it was spent by Damasio and Alonso in R&D, huge amount of monitoring surveys to trace what they found, thousands of hours of field testings, development, traveling expenses,protype construction and production in 50+ years?
What was the reason for that MXR Distortion+ little box be sold in the 70's for 100 bucks with only 5 dollar parts inside?
Was it only for the parts themselves and 95% greed and profits, or was it due to their 'know how' and R&D for the exact configuration the components were set to get that famous distortion sound?
Don't fall in the trap some idiots here set up to fool the naives.
I consider you a smart guy with perceptions some times even superior to some 'engineers' here tough you lack the technical background.
I expect this statement from them, but not from you.
aft_72005
01-08-2011, 11:12 AM
What causes this halo for non-ferrous metals?
Hi J_PLAYER
Also I don’t know , but I am sure 100% , there are something around long buried
Metals .I called it “energy filed “ I experience more than 6 times with LRL .;)
Then all , recheck with metal detector . yes , I founded all rusty nails !!!!!!!!:D
J_Player
01-08-2011, 01:12 PM
What causes this halo for non-ferrous metals?
Hi J_PLAYER
Also I don’t know , but I am sure 100% , there are something around long buried
Metals .I called it “energy filed “ I experience more than 6 times with LRL .;)
Then all , recheck with metal detector . yes , I founded all rusty nails !!!!!!!!:DHi Aft,
I have found many rusty nails. Usually they give the same signal as new nails, but sometimes they give a bigger signal than a new nail. I have seen signals maybe less than twice as much as I expect for a nail. When I dig these big signal rusty nails, I see they are very rusted to the point where the oxidation has penetrated into the metal and made the nail weak. I often see the rust layer is partially separated from the nail in the center, and is being absorbed into the adjacent soil. This makes me think some significant percentage of the iron has been converted to iron oxide and even combined with other soil constituents. Yet there is pure iron or steel at the core of the nail remaining. I did not see any evidence of an extra energy field from these rusty nails, but I did see a larger conductive area that could produce more eddy currents than is found in a fresh nail. My tests with chunks of rust that were broken off large nails showed they do make signals on my metal detectors.
So I am thinking I have not seen any energy field from rusty nails when using metal detectors except for extra eddy currents that a fresh nail will not show.
But one thing I am certain.... rusty nails are not a happy treasure to find unless they are nailed into a treasure chest. :rolleyes:
Best wishes,
J_P
J_Player
01-08-2011, 02:14 PM
...Don't fall in the trap some idiots here set up to fool the naives.
I consider you a smart guy with perceptions some times even superior to some 'engineers' here tough you lack the technical background.
I expect this statement from them, but not from you.Heheheee....
Dr. hung expects Morgan to believe he was not naive when he bought his Mineoro locator and expected it to detect a coin at 30 meters... :lol:
Morgan knows Mineoro cannot find a coin at 30 meters because he has a Mineoro which does not work to find coins at 30 meters.
None of the Mineoros Morgan owned found coins at 30 meters. Why would Morgan want to lie and say Mineoro can find a coin at 30 meters as advertised when he saw it cannot?
Does Dr. hung expect Morgan to enter into the dream world where it is ok to give false information about what he sees the Mineoro locators do?
I happen to agree with Morgan when he says: "If MINEORO boxes works as they claim,example one gold coin 30 m distance,this 10.000 $ are the correct paiment,becouse this LRL device will bring treasures for the owner.
Unfortunatly reality is shows MINEORO is not good".
Yes, I would consider paying $10,000 for a Mineoro locator if it could reliably find coins at 30 meters as advertised, but it can't.
So it is worth maybe $100-$200 for a museum piece to me if it is in good cosmetic condition.
Best wishes,
J_P
If I have already detected a piece of copper the size of a coin from 30m, why can't Morgan do the same with a gold coin from this distance or even greater?
It depends on how long it was buried and specially if the right conditions of weather, ionic field intensity, etc. are met.
If you support the theory of 'It did not work for me so it does not work', fine.
Just don't make any assumptions I think the same as you.
Qiaozhi
01-08-2011, 04:51 PM
If I have already detected a piece of copper the size of a coin from 30m, why can't Morgan do the same with a gold coin from this distance or even greater?
It depends on how long it was buried and specially if the right conditions of weather, ionic field intensity, etc. are met.
If you support the theory of 'It did not work for me so it does not work', fine.
Just don't make any assumptions I think the same as you.
Aha ... this must be the [almost] "lucid Hung" posting today.
What happened to "ranting Hung"? Has he gone out searching for longtime buried gold with his homemade LRL ... plus trusty Minelab detector, for the purposes of pinpointing only (of course)? ;)
J_Player
01-08-2011, 08:09 PM
If I have already detected a piece of copper the size of a coin from 30m, why can't Morgan do the same with a gold coin from this distance or even greater?
It depends on how long it was buried and specially if the right conditions of weather, ionic field intensity, etc. are met.
If you support the theory of 'It did not work for me so it does not work', fine.
Just don't make any assumptions I think the same as you.Assumptions?
What assumptions?
I have been reading the reports that Morgan made from his field experiences with Mineoro, not assumptions.
Morgan tells a different story than you tell. Morgan says Mineoro is not a very good locator.
When compared to his experimental PD, the PD can find a gold medal from 2m at the same time when the Mineoro cannot.
How can conditions of weather, ionic field intensity, etc, not be right if he can detect them with other locators, but not with the Mineoro?
I also hear this story from Michael... He located treasures with other locators, but not with Mineoro. Are the treasures Michael located also wrong conditions of weather, ionic field intensity, etc?
If conditions were wrong, how did he locate them with his other locators, and why did his Mineoro locators not find them?
And why do we hear the same from Geo in Greece? He says he can locate long time buried metal with his experimental locators, but Mineoro is not working well for this purpose.
Maybe I made an assumption. I assumed Morgan and Michael and Geo are telling the truth.
Should I also assume you are telling the truth?
I don't think that assumption would work.
Then I would also have to change my mind and believe Morgan and Michael and Geo are giving false reports of what they saw.
I don't believe they would do that.
From everything I have seen reported about Mineoro performance, I think I will be wise to not spend money for Mineoro LRLs.
I think If I try to find treasure with Mineoro LRLs I will not find any long range detection except for detecting static and strange RF noise.
I think that the only place I could see Mineoro locators work as advertised is in the Mineoro demonstration areas.
And I think if I move the Mineoro locator farther away from the demonstration area, it will stop working as advertised.
I think I will then hear only reports of excellent performance from friends of people who work at the Mineoro factory.
I wonder if there is some trick to make the Mineoro locators work well at the factory testing grounds.
Why?
Because I think if the same demonstrators from the factory come to where I hunt for millions year buried gold nuggets, they will not find them.
I am assuming what Morgan, Michael and Geo reported is true.
I will not assume they are liars, because I do not believe they are liars.
Best wishes,
J_P
If I have already detected a piece of copper the size of a coin from 30m, why can't Morgan do the same with a gold coin from this distance or even greater?
It depends on how long it was buried and specially if the right conditions of weather, ionic field intensity, etc. are met.
If you support the theory of 'It did not work for me so it does not work', fine.
Just don't make any assumptions I think the same as you.
A more likely explanation is that Hung physics apply only in the vicinity of Hung.
Assumptions?
What assumptions?
I have been reading the reports that Morgan made from his field experiences with Mineoro, not assumptions.
Morgan tells a different story than you tell. Morgan says Mineoro is not a very good locator.
When compared to his experimental PD, the PD can find a gold medal from 2m at the same time when the Mineoro cannot.
How can conditions of weather, ionic field intensity, etc, not be right if he can detect them with other locators, but not with the Mineoro?
I also hear this story from Michael... He located treasures with other locators, but not with Mineoro. Are the treasures Michael located also wrong conditions of weather, ionic field intensity, etc?
If conditions were wrong, how did he locate them with his other locators, and why did his Mineoro locators not find them?
And why do we hear the same from Geo in Greece? He says he can locate long time buried metal with his experimental locators, but Mineoro is not working well for this purpose.
Maybe I made an assumption. I assumed Morgan and Michael and Geo are telling the truth.
Should I also assume you are telling the truth?
I don't think that assumption would work.
Then I would also have to change my mind and believe Morgan and Michael and Geo are giving false reports of what they saw.
I don't believe they would do that.
From everything I have seen reported about Mineoro performance, I think I will be wise to not spend money for Mineoro LRLs.
I think If I try to find treasure with Mineoro LRLs I will not find any long range detection except for detecting static and strange RF noise.
I think that the only place I could see Mineoro locators work as advertised is in the Mineoro demonstration areas.
And I think if I move the Mineoro locator farther away from the demonstration area, it will stop working as advertised.
I think I will then hear only reports of excellent performance from friends of people who work at the Mineoro factory.
I wonder if there is some trick to make the Mineoro locators work well at the factory testing grounds.
Why?
Because I think if the same demonstrators from the factory come to where I hunt for millions year buried gold nuggets, they will not find them.
I am assuming what Morgan, Michael and Geo reported is true.
I will not assume they are liars, because I do not believe they are liars.
Best wishes,
J_P
You can assume and believe in whoever or whatever you wish.
Actually your position right now is only this. Assume and believe in something or someone.
J_Player
01-09-2011, 12:43 PM
You can assume and believe in whoever or whatever you wish.
Actually your position right now is only this. Assume and believe in something or someone.Actually you are wrong.
I also have field experience with LRLs in the locations of long time buried gold and other metals. Guess what?
My experience does not agree with what you say.
But Who cares if I agree with Morgan, Michael, and Geo?
What really counts is what readers think who come to this forum looking for some chance that there is an LRL that works.
People come here and read the stories from people who have used Mineoro LRLs.
Most people using Mineoro LRLs say they are not good for locating treasure and one person says they are very good.
The one who says they are very good is friends of people who work at the Mineoro factory, and lives within a reasonable driving distance to the factory... Interesting.
Let us suppose someone reads that the Mineoro LRLs can detect a gold coin from 30 meters. Whey they continue reading the Geotech remote sensing forum, they see how people all over the world are reporting no good detection from Mineoro LRLs.
Will they believe the Dr. hung stories of gold DNA producing antioxidation substances, stories of free energy from a vacuum, and 30 meter coin detection from Mineoro?
Or will they believe all the people who have used Mineoro LRLs and found they are not good?
Will they read what Morgan and Geo reported from Portugal and be convinced Mineoro LRLs are not working, or will they want to read more true Mineoro stories?
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=118690&postcount=78
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=122223&postcount=111
Do you think they will be anxious to buy a Mineoro LRL after they read Carl-NCs report of how he could not detect anyting with his Mineoro LRL including the gold plate that came with the locator or his 10 oz gold bar?
http://geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=47468&postcount=32
Or they may read how neronc bought a Mineoro LRL that never detected anything at all, not even the gold plate they sent with the locator, and the factory never answered his emails... http://geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=50315&postcount=119
Maybe if they read about how Connie said she really had a brain wash from Brazil when she bought a Mineoro LRL, they will wonder if the Mineoro LRLs only work when they are being demonstrated at the factory...
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=96087&postcount=86
Maybe they will read the report from vcrb who says his Mineoro LRL does not work in any weather condition on any day...
http://geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=47501&postcount=49
Or could they read Michael's report of how he found no detection at all with Mineoro LRLs after one year of trying...
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=96118&postcount=90
Maybe they will wonder why Gibon sold his Mineoro LRL, then find the answer here...
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=116404&postcount=107
Maybe they will read what the Mineoro factory was publishing their explanation of how gold ions travel up from the ground to make the locator beep like Romeo and Juliet. Maybe they will read how Mineoro hid a BC548 transistor in black epoxy so nobody would know this is what they call "sensitive electronics" that detects nano, femto and atto second pulses from passionate ions crashing. Maybe they will read how Mineoro removed this false information from their website some time after criticism of their theories and accusations of BS circuitry appeared in the Geotech forums...
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=122159&postcount=75
Maybe they will read what Alexismex wrote about his experience with Mineoro LRLs and see his photos of what is really inside here...
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12061
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12165
The more they read, the more they will find that people who buy the Mineoro LRLs do not find them working as they were advertised to work, and they do not work the way that Dr. hung says they work for him.
They will see what is really inside the Mineoro LRL instead of sensitive electronics that detects nano, atto and femto second pulses from an ion detector.
Will they decide to buy a Mineoro LRL, or will they decide they really need their money more than they need to tell stories of non-working Mineoros like the stories they are reading here?
As I said, you are wrong again. I don't believe in these people any more than they believe in me.
But I believe that they reported true facts about their experience with Mineoro LRLs. And I believe the posts you made contain false information.
Best wishes,
J_P
Actually you are wrong.
I also have field experience with LRLs in the locations of long time buried gold and other metals. Guess what?
My experience does not agree with what you say.
But Who cares if I agree with Morgan, Michael, and Geo?
What really counts is what readers think who come to this forum looking for some chance that there is an LRL that works.
People come here and read the stories from people who have used Mineoro LRLs.
Most people using Mineoro LRLs say they are not good for locating treasure and one person says they are very good.
The one who says they are very good is friends of people who work at the Mineoro factory, and lives within a reasonable driving distance to the factory... Interesting.
Let us suppose someone reads that the Mineoro LRLs can detect a gold coin from 30 meters. Whey they continue reading the Geotech remote sensing forum, they see how people all over the world are reporting no good detection from Mineoro LRLs.
Will they believe the Dr. hung stories of gold DNA producing antioxidation substances, stories of free energy from a vacuum, and 30 meter coin detection from Mineoro?
Or will they believe all the people who have used Mineoro LRLs and found they are not good?
Will they read what Morgan and Geo reported from Portugal and be convinced Mineoro LRLs are not working, or will they want to read more true Mineoro stories?
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=118690&postcount=78
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=122223&postcount=111
Do you think they will be anxious to buy a Mineoro LRL after they read Carl-NCs report of how he could not detect anyting with his Mineoro LRL including the gold plate that came with the locator or his 10 oz gold bar?
http://geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=47468&postcount=32
Or they may read how neronc bought a Mineoro LRL that never detected anything at all, not even the gold plate they sent with the locator, and the factory never answered his emails... http://geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=50315&postcount=119
Maybe if they read about how Connie said she really had a brain wash from Brazil when she bought a Mineoro LRL, they will wonder if the Mineoro LRLs only work when they are being demonstrated at the factory...
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=96087&postcount=86
Maybe they will read the report from vcrb who says his Mineoro LRL does not work in any weather condition on any day...
http://geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=47501&postcount=49
Or could they read Michael's report of how he found no detection at all with Mineoro LRLs after one year of trying...
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=96118&postcount=90
Maybe they will wonder why Gibon sold his Mineoro LRL, then find the answer here...
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=116404&postcount=107
Maybe they will read what the Mineoro factory was publishing their explanation of how gold ions travel up from the ground to make the locator beep like Romeo and Juliet. Maybe they will read how Mineoro hid a BC548 transistor in black epoxy so nobody would know this is what they call "sensitive electronics" that detects nano, femto and atto second pulses from passionate ions crashing. Maybe they will read how Mineoro removed this false information from their website some time after criticism of their theories and accusations of BS circuitry appeared in the Geotech forums...
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=122159&postcount=75
Maybe they will read what Alexismex wrote about his experience with Mineoro LRLs and see his photos of what is really inside here...
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12061
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12165
The more they read, the more they will find that people who buy the Mineoro LRLs do not find them working as they were advertised to work, and they do not work the way that Dr. hung says they work for him.
They will see what is really inside the Mineoro LRL instead of sensitive electronics that detects nano, atto and femto second pulses from an ion detector.
Will they decide to buy a Mineoro LRL, or will they decide they really need their money more than they need to tell stories of non-working Mineoros like the stories they are reading here?
As I said, you are wrong again. I don't believe in these people any more than they believe in me.
But I believe that they reported true facts about their experience with Mineoro LRLs. And I believe the posts you made contain false information.
Best wishes,
J_P
I wonder how Dr Hung will reply to this. http://bestsmileys.com/crying/15.gif
I wonder how Dr Hung will reply to this.
I'm sure they will apply the typical pseudo gobbledygook followed up with a dose of the Dell Winders brand of insults.
Excellent post by J_P
J_Player
01-09-2011, 07:13 PM
I wonder how Dr Hung will reply to this. http://bestsmileys.com/crying/15.gifMaybe he won't...
Maybe he will put on his batman costume and fly over to TNet where some wierdos take him seriously.
Best wishes,
J_P
Maybe he won't...
Maybe he will put on his batman costume and fly over to TNet where some wierdos take him seriously.
Best wishes,
J_P
yer killin' me!!
keep it up :lol:
Maybe he won't...
Maybe he will put on his batman costume and fly over to TNet where some wierdos take him seriously.
Best wishes,
J_P
You are probably right. He won't come back until this thread is buried a few pages back. So, if we bump this thread every couple of days to keep it on first page then ... :lol:
Qiaozhi
01-10-2011, 04:14 PM
You are probably right. He won't come back until this thread is buried a few pages back. So, if we bump this thread every couple of days to keep it on first page then ... :lol:
I think it's now a good time for JP to re-post all the unanswered questions for Hung to ponder over, and then see whether we manage to get answers to any of them before the start of 2012. :rolleyes: In particular I am interested in the ones made regarding the fake PD video. These were blatantly avoided, despite numerous postings.
You are probably right. He won't come back until this thread is buried a few pages back. So, if we bump this thread every couple of days to keep it on first page then ... :lol:
Hi. Problem is not Hung...., he is not the owner of Mineoro. We have some problems with the LRLs of Mineoro. If Hung advertise Mineoro, i have not problem. I will write my experience for these lrls. At free forums everyone can say what he think. Same cases with Hung and Mineoro there are at all forums, not only to remote sensing.....
Anyway, it is my opinion, you have your opinion etc.......
Regards:)
I think it's now a good time for JP to re-post all the unanswered questions for Hung to ponder over, and then see whether we manage to get answers to any of them before the start of 2012. :rolleyes: In particular I am interested in the ones made regarding the fake PD video. These were blatantly avoided, despite numerous postings.
About the PD video, i sent my video to Fred. I have not problem to post them here (they are about the same with Morgans video), but i must delete the face of Morgan because he don't like to put his face at internet.
Regards
About the PD video, i sent my video to Fred. I have not problem to post them here (they are about the same with Morgans video), but i must delete the face of Morgan because he don't like to put his face at internet.
Regards
I don´t think Qiaozhi was referring to that video, but the one Hung made, "finding" some coin somewhere.
He has the right to say whatever he wants of course, including advertising Mineoro with ridiculous affirmations, but when someone ask something about his comments he would look more educated if he answered.
I don´t think Qiaozhi was referring to that video, but the one Hung made, "finding" some coin somewhere.
He has the right to say whatever he wants of course, including advertising Mineoro with ridiculous affirmations, but when someone ask something about his comments he would look more educated if he answered.
Hi Fred.
Yes... i remember now. It had the ability to detect a coin at 92...93 cm :lol:
Regards:)
Qiaozhi
01-10-2011, 07:53 PM
About the PD video, i sent my video to Fred. I have not problem to post them here (they are about the same with Morgans video), but i must delete the face of Morgan because he don't like to put his face at internet.
Regards
I don´t think Qiaozhi was referring to that video, but the one Hung made, "finding" some coin somewhere.
He has the right to say whatever he wants of course, including advertising Mineoro with ridiculous affirmations, but when someone ask something about his comments he would look more educated if he answered.
Fred is correct. I am referring to the fake video posted by Hung in his bedroom, in which he demonstrates his homemade PD. In the video you can clearly see a poor attempt at some "smoke and mirrors", as he lowers the PD to make it beep when pointed at the gold ring, but holds it higher up when no target is present. He would never make a good conjurer.
I consider the videos from yourself and Morgan to be genuine, and they show the sort of response I would expect from such a device.
Hey, just open my mail and found a bunch of reply notifications from this forum. So I decided to see what was going on.
...And found people talking about me??
Don't you have anything a little more interesting to discuss in this grocery store?:lol:
So the mambo boys still talk about that video... Boys, you can say whatever you want about it. It was not made up. But I don't give a $**t if you believe it or not.
Those were the mods I did in the PD and that was the limit for fresh gold.
And you are impressed? 90 cms?:lol:
You should have seen the Mineoro Tyon we had in our team. That same gold ring was detected from about 3 1/2 meters once in a bright sunny and hot day.
That darn thing was one hell of an abnormal wood box!:lol:
Bye for now folks. Hope you people talk about something else for a change...
How about discussing WM6's Bionic 01 schematics?:lol:
PS. I see that this guy Rudy is a serious candidate to become the spanked skeptic of the month over TNET. It is boring having SWR winning all the time. Way to go Rudy.
I know you can do it.:thumb:
Regards to all.
Morgan
01-10-2011, 09:49 PM
About the PD video, i sent my video to Fred. I have not problem to post them here (they are about the same with Morgans video), but i must delete the face of Morgan because he don't like to put his face at internet.
Regards
yes please;)
Morgan
01-10-2011, 09:52 PM
About the PD video, i sent my video to Fred. I have not problem to post them here (they are about the same with Morgans video), but i must delete the face of Morgan because he don't like to put his face at internet.
Regards
Maybe you can erase me in the films,or if you give to others it will arrive to internet sooner or later...
Maybe you can erase me in the films,or if you give to others it will arrive to internet sooner or later...
Fred has this video 2 years now but he did not post it everywhere.
If it will arrive to internet after 20 years don't afraid. You will be different:lol:
Regards
Fred is correct. I am referring to the fake video posted by Hung in his bedroom, in which he demonstrates his homemade PD. In the video you can clearly see a poor attempt at some "smoke and mirrors", as he lowers the PD to make it beep when pointed at the gold ring, but holds it higher up when no target is present. He would never make a good conjurer.
I consider the videos from yourself and Morgan to be genuine, and they show the sort of response I would expect from such a device.
I had been it careful :lol:
The video will go nowhere, if i said so.
:|
J_Player
01-11-2011, 01:46 PM
I think it's now a good time for JP to re-post all the unanswered questions for Hung to ponder over, and then see whether we manage to get answers to any of them before the start of 2012. :rolleyes: In particular I am interested in the ones made regarding the fake PD video. These were blatantly avoided, despite numerous postings.I have many unanswered questions about the Mineoro circuit in my posts above.
FrancoItaly gave one of the answers, then agreed the circuit cannot work to send an ion signal when I pointed out a few facts about the circuit configuration and quality of components used.
Hung answered none of the questions I asked. He simply said the circuit has errors (which he also cannot locate).
If you want to see some unanswered questions related to HungScience, they are scattered throughout the Remote Sensing forum.
I can easily post a concise list of questions I have asked by showing this post I made that quotes some teachings of HungScience:
Dr. hung is teaching HungScience again!
Without looking any further than this forum thread, I found two new "facts" to add to the end of the collection of HungScience.
"Gold is the most powerful 'self defensive' metal when it comes to avoid any harm to its structure, such as rust, oxidation, etc. Its DNA produces a substance which coats the metal to fight against those 'threats'."
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=84058
This is the principle in which the Rangertell Examiner works. Resonance to the elements subatomic levels when a carrier signal line is shot and returned".
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=41226
"Back to the Examiner’s concept, there’s a portion in ECE which I already mentioned which might explain how the magnetic fields produced by the unit even diminute might be working provided one gets free of the standard Maxwell Heaviside concept and maybe start to find some backup on the Aharonov-Bohm and the field and potential relationship..."
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=63626 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=63626&postcount=10)
"If you navigate the internet correctly, you will find out how ALL scientific comunity in the world utilizes AIAS as basis for their research".
http://geotech1.com/forums/showthrea...3185#post63185 (http://geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=63185#post63185)
"So, there's no such thing as IR penetrating the soil or IR striking the surface of the earth".
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...tml#msg2132437 (http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,292891.msg2132437.html#msg2132437)
Carl-NC asks: The UV ... is absorbed by the surface of the earth. This parcel which is absorbed is THE ONLY souce of heat for our planet and it occurs during the sunlight period.
hung replies: Absolutely correct. It's called radiant energy. The only source of heat is the one which is absorbed.
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=106968
"You think of voltage as a potential. It's not only a potential, but also a flow as electromotive force.
Wake up! If voltage is too high it travels through the nucleous of the conductor. If lower it travesl through the surface!
Current is a 'control' of this flow.
Ask Mr. John Bedini to demonstrate his motor to you. Ask him what voltage is".
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=106968
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Taken from my post here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=106977&postcount=125 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=106977&postcount=125)
We see evidence in Dr. hung's science posts that he does not understand the basics of electricity or of science in general.
Even pseudoscientists are not in agreement with Dr. hung. Perhaps this is why we call it HungScience instead of common pseudoscience.
The LRL technology that we see in Mineoro locators include a regenerative receiver and a fake ion detector with mis-matched circuit design that can't work to supply a gold DNA signal.
Yet Dr. hung compares this LRL technology as similar to a jet fighter contrasted to a conventional metal detector being similar to a car.
It seems to me that even cheap modern metal detectors that to not use PICs contain more advanced technology than found in the Mineoro LRLs.
At least they use circuitry that has progressed from the 1960's style circuit designs and they take measures to match the impedance of the signals that travel through the circuits.
But Dr. hung maintains Mineoro LRL technology is much more advanced, taking advantages of little known properties of gold, and "advanced science" that he posted.
These are just a few examples of the weird science Dr. hung posted. I can cite pages of diatribe shown in his posts explaining science principles that nobody has ever heard of except him and members of his "secret team".
The answers Dr. hung gives to explain his HungScience are not explanations.
The only time he gives an explanation, we see exceprts from Myron evans, Tom Bearden, Bruce Cathie and other similar promoters of pseudoscience pages pasted in his post which do not usually address the question we asked.
But they tell us all science as we know it is wrong, and only their idea is right, even though their ideas are full of errors and have no proof to show they are correct, nor have they have produced any apparatus utilizing their principles that can be seen working to do something useful.
Here are my questions once again in a concise list:
Explain how HungScience can work as you detailed it.
For example:
1. Tell us the name of the substance gold DNA produces which coats the metal to fight against rust and oxidation.
2. Post a circuit diagram that shows the transmitter part of the RangerTell Examiner which shoots a carrier signal line. Tell us what carrier frequency is used to carry the gold frequency.
3. Explain why we should believe Myrons Evans theories are true when he still has not corrected his math errors, nor has he been able to get his free energy generator to work?
4. Tell us what is the correct way to navigate the internet so we can find how ALL scientific community in the world uses AIAS as their basis for research.
Is this only some BS statement we can find on Myron Evans web page, or is it really true that all scientific community in the world use his organization as the basis for their research?
5. I read that less than 8% of the sun's radiation which strikes the earth is UV, and most of it is visible light, near-IR and IR.
I read this near-IR and IR contribute most of the heat that is absorbed in the earth when the sun is shining.
Your explanation that UV is the only source of heat for our planet during the daylight hours means I have been reading wrong information from people who publish this solar data.
Can you show me some web pages that state UV is the only source of heat for our planet during the daylight hours?
6. I have not heard that voltage is a flow of EMF before. Nor have I heard that current is a control of this flow of voltage.
Where can I read more about this news? Are there places besides your forum posts?
Best wishes,
J_P
Hmm, looks like Dr Hung got his degree from a box of Cracker Jacks. :lol::lol::lol:
J_Player
01-11-2011, 05:35 PM
Hi. Problem is not Hung...., he is not the owner of Mineoro. We have some problems with the LRLs of Mineoro. If Hung advertise Mineoro, i have not problem. I will write my experience for these lrls. At free forums everyone can say what he think. Same cases with Hung and Mineoro there are at all forums, not only to remote sensing.....
Anyway, it is my opinion, you have your opinion etc.......
Regards:)Hi Geo,
You are correct.
You will continue to write your experience with Mineoro LRLS when hung advertises Mineoro.
We see your experience is not the same as the advertising stories hung tells.
But hung also tells other stories about electricity and science.
Can you write to tell your experience with these same electricity and science stories?
1. hung says voltage is a flow of electromotive force, and current controls this flow of electromotive force.
In your experience did you find voltage to be a flow of force, and did you find current will control this flow of force?
Or did you find that voltage is simply electromotive potential, and current is a flow of electrons which is controlled by impedance?
2. hung says gold DNA produces a substance that coats the metal to fight against rust and oxidation.
In your experience, have you ever heard of gold DNA producing a substance that coats the surface of the metal?
Have you been able to collect any samples of this substance from gold DNA that coats sthe surface?
3. hung says all scientific community in the world uses AIAS as their basis for research.
In your experience, have you ever met any Greek scientists who use AIAS as the basis for their research?
Do you know any scientists or anyone else who knows what AIAS is?
4. hung says there's no such thing as IR penetrating the soil or IR striking the surface of the earth.
In your experience, did you find that infrared heat energy from the sun can not penetrate the soil or stike the surface of the earth?
Or was your experience that infrared heat energy from the sun can be absorbed into the ground to make it become warm?
You are free to write your experience even if it is different than the stories hung tells.
Best wishes, :)
J_P
Hi J_P
You know that when I want to write certain experiences I write them without I interest if somebodies agreeing or no.
In my effort to say the truth for certain devices as the Mineoro, I was accused many times. Thus after them I was tired and now already what I try I achieve is the optimisation of my lrl
Regards:)
Qiaozhi
01-11-2011, 09:19 PM
Here are my questions once again in a concise list:
Explain how HungScience can work as you detailed it.
For example:
..........
And this is only a small fraction of the unanswered questions. If we were to list them all, the Geotech server might become overloaded. :lol:
Personally I'm not holding my breath while waiting for a sensible response. :eek:
kt315
01-13-2011, 01:26 AM
new design for remoters sensers :) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A1amKcEHuY&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A1amKcEHuY&feature=related
new design for remoters sensers :) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A1amKcEHuY&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A1amKcEHuY&feature=related
Nokia metal detector????????:lol:
new design for remoters sensers :) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A1amKcEHuY&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A1amKcEHuY&feature=related
Excellent ! Reminds me of Hung´s video...
At this price it MUST be good, and it is probably the world longest range LRL, it will beep at about 20000km.
I like the coil wire connector :)
Nokia metal detector?
Look closer, it is using a remote control as a part; it is a remote detector.
The secrets of metal detector design need more careful investigation! :cool:
detectoman
01-14-2011, 03:03 PM
i remember fine what earlier geo be lrl sceptic today him lrl entusiast jaja
i remember fine what earlier geo be lrl sceptic today him lrl entusiast jaja
Hi detectoman.
Yes... before years i was LRL sceptic but when i saw the first LRL to working i became lrl enthusiastic.
After then i saw many lrls, other good and other bad.
Regards:)
Seden
01-15-2011, 05:43 AM
KT315,
die Kelley Familie spielt Musik campy!
Yes, my opinion was schematic or circuit diagram( eagle file) . you uploaded , only jpeg .
Best regards.
Hi aft.
I just remember it:(
System don't let me to upload a *.sch file.
Can you give me your email so to post it to you???
Regards:)
Qiaozhi
01-21-2011, 08:03 AM
Hi aft.
I just remember it:(
System don't let me to upload a *.sch file.
Can you give me your email so to post it to you???
Regards:)
Simply upload it as a zip file. ;)
Simply upload it as a zip file. ;)
My HD crashed so i have not any program to zip it.
If i will let it to zip when i will install the programs i am afraid that i will forget it:lol:
Regards:)
Then you can add another extension that is compatible :)
Then you can add another extension that is compatible :)
And Aft must rename it again!!!!!
i will try...
aft_72005
01-24-2011, 03:07 AM
Hi aft.
I just remember it:(
System don't let me to upload a *.sch file.
Can you give me your email so to post it to you???
Regards:)
Just see your message now. Thanking for this trouble .
My email is aft.72005@gmail.com
Best regards.
Just see your message now. Thanking for this trouble .
My email is aft.72005@gmail.com
Best regards.
Hi Aft. I post the schematic (as eagle type). If you have any problem i am here!!!
Regards:)
aft_72005
01-25-2011, 03:08 AM
Hi Aft. I post the schematic (as eagle type). If you have any problem i am here!!!
Regards:)
Hi Geo
I didn’t see your file in my mailbox yet. :???:
aft.72005@gmail.com
Best regards.
Hi Geo
I didn’t see your file in my mailbox yet. :???:
aft.72005@gmail.com
Best regards.
Why?????????????????????:angry:
i try again. please inform me
Regards
aft_72005
01-25-2011, 08:28 AM
Why?????????????????????:angry:
i try again. please inform me
Regards
Received file . thanking so much :thumb:
Best regards.
I found a video with a test that i did to a Mineoro PDC210 super before 3 years (little time before i sell it). At test i give signal from a generator to an external coil and i see if the mineoro receives tis gignal. The signal was from 0.1Hz to 2.1 Mhz.
Video is 69 Mb so i can't upload it here. If Qiaozhi like i can post it to him to to attach here
Regards:)
Qiaozhi
01-28-2011, 07:50 PM
f Qiaozhi like i can post it to him to to attach here
OK - please send it to me by email.
OK - please send it to me by email.
I try but i can't :angry::angry:
Maybe computer problem:angry:
I will try again at night..
I don´t think there is any email provider that will accept 69mb files attachments.
rapidshare will probably be a better option. :)
Qiaozhi
01-29-2011, 03:08 PM
I don´t think there is any email provider that will accept 69mb files attachments.
rapidshare will probably be a better option. :)
It depends on the email provider. Some are only limited by the mail box size.
It depends on the email provider. Some are only limited by the mail box size.
I didn´t know.This is interesting, file sharing is often a problem.
I uploaded it to rapidshare and i sent the adress to Qiaozhi. I hope to download it!!!.
Also Qiaozhi can modify it so the file to be smaller. There are two ranges where the PDC detects the signal (it seems to be tuned there), one at 125...170Khz and another at few Hz.
:)
Qiaozhi
01-30-2011, 03:56 PM
Here is Geo's video. I've converted it from 3gp to mpeg and lowered the quality. The final size is slightly over 7MB after being unzipped.
Tim Williams
01-30-2011, 10:12 PM
Geo what are you supposed to be doing in your video?
Tim
Geo what are you supposed to be doing in your video?
Tim
Tim is not somethins "special".
It shows that the Mineoro is a simple receiver as at the schematic that i attached here.
So Mineoro is tuned at frequencies between 125 and 170Khz and also receives at very low frequencies (few Hz). As i remember (the video is 3 years old) with stronger signal it received at more frequencies.
The time that it detects rf signal, it is not a clear "gold" detector. But for me is a scrap:(.
Regards
J_Player
01-31-2011, 06:27 AM
Geo what are you supposed to be doing in your video?
TimFrom what I see, Geo's video shows the Mineoro PDC210 will beep when a signal generator sends out various frequencies between 0.1 and 2.1 MHz.
I found a video with a test that i did to a Mineoro PDC210 super before 3 years (little time before i sell it). At test i give signal from a generator to an external coil and i see if the mineoro receives tis gignal. The signal was from 0.1Hz to 2.1 Mhz.
Best wishes,
J_P
fmnotes
03-04-2011, 08:38 PM
please send it to me by email. fmnotes@yahoo.gr
thanks
aft_72005
05-26-2011, 06:13 PM
Hi Geo
I having question about FG-79.with wire long 15 cm , do short circuit 1.5 volt
Battery , what is detection range?
Best regards.
Hi Geo
I having question about FG-79.with wire long 15 cm , do short circuit 1.5 volt
Battery , what is detection range?
Best regards.
Hi.
As i remember i never made this test at Mineoro detector.
Now i am not owner of any Mineoro detector.
Regards
Morgan
05-28-2011, 10:31 PM
Hi Geo
I having question about FG-79.with wire long 15 cm , do short circuit 1.5 volt
Battery , what is detection range?
Best regards.
80 cm
aft_72005
05-29-2011, 07:55 AM
80 cm
Thank you http://www.getsmile.com/emoticons/smileys-91853/aiw/good.gifhttp://www.getsmile.com/emoticons/smileys-91853/aiw/ok.gif
hi my friends
this circuit with mineoro fg79 or not if with circuit .how to with connect ?:rolleyes:
Hi
What is wire transformer 380uH and 20mH ? how to make ?
Agraz
06-13-2011, 11:04 PM
Hello ban: I not have this circuit, and people not like mineoro.
pablo72
03-27-2019, 10:52 PM
hello friends.
what's the filter resistors and capacitors in this schema? ayone know?
Pahom
08-31-2019, 09:04 AM
In my opinion this is not an ion chamber, but a three-output passage condenser. With a constant positive potential on one of the plates + 27 volts. From the previously laid out photos of this part, it can be seen that the lining of the golden strip is wound on the case and does not have a closed loop. The insulator of this condenser is not only a plastic tube (frame) but the air itself. The fact that 10 Hz is applied to one capacitor plate is probably connected with the frequency of the earth, or as it is commonly called Schumann's frequency. Only now this frequency is now not 10 Hz or even 11 Hz. The frequency of Schumann is changing, and as far as I have deducted from the latest data, it is in the region of 36-38 Hz. Perhaps for this reason not very good reviews about the devices, due to non-coincidence of freque
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