The Mr. Don Thread

[J_Player]

This is a new thread started for the Geotech forum member Don Jose de La Mancha.
He expressed an interest in discussing whether an LRL can ever work, but did not start a thread to discuss it.

Is this why I am starting this thread?
Yes, partly.
But I am also starting it in order to put an end to a lot of non sequitur posts that don't seem to stop in another thread dedicated to discussing an "honest and innocent outsider's" comments about Geotech.
My final reason for starting this thread is because Don Jose de La Mancha asked me to: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=120461#post120461

HI J_P my friend: You posted -->Or do you plan to continue making irrelevant posts
***************
Relevancy, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

Be my guest in opening a new forum, but make it broad.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. I haven't been called 'Mr' since I ceased being an officer in the USAF. Swr substitutes @##$%%^^%%&^^^ for that , and he is probably right. SOOO hint--!
I will start by saying the purpose of this thread is to discuss whether an LRL can ever work.
But in order to keep this thread broad, I gave it the title "The Mr. Don Thread" instead of "Can an LRL ever work", not knowing where the discussions will lead.

For this particular thread, feel free to wander off-topic or post irrelevant information if it captures beauty in your eye.
You may call Don Jose de La Mancha "Mr. Don", as I do, "Don Jose de La Mancha", or "@##$%%^^%%&^^^", as SWR does.
You can talk about memorable times from any past military service you have done, or how testing, Explorer Club, or medical studies, or how sleeping in your car relates to the possibilities of an LRL ever working.

Hopefully Mr. Don will make the first relevant post so we can see what direction this thread will take.

Best wishes to all
J_P

[Jim]

Cool. A thread for @##$%%^^%%&^^^ :rolleyes:

[J_Player]

Cool. A thread for @##$%%^^%%&^^^ :rolleyes:Excellent post. A bit off topic, but that's ok for this thread.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

In an effort to get back on topic....

Yes. An LRL might sometime in the future "work" IF:


it did not depend on an ideomotor response
the operator does not have to hold it in order for it to work
it does not involve pseudoscience
Hung, Dell, Claude, Mike, Tim or Bob are not involved in the sale of it

[WM6]

Hopefully Mr. Don will make the first relevant post so we can see what direction this thread will take.

J_P

Hopeless, Mr. Don is more techy than LRL boy- as you can se here:

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=120462&postcount=149

[J_Player]

In an effort to get back on topic....

Yes. An LRL might sometime in the future "work" IF:


it did not depend on an ideomotor response
the operator does not have to hold it in order for it to work
it does not involve pseudoscience
Hung, Dell, Claude, Mike, Tim or Bob are not involved in the sale of it

Interesting.
One LRL has been called a "treasure tri-corder".
I wonder if Captain Kirk's tri-corder would work when he set it down on a desk, or on a rock at a distant planet?
I suppose it depended on the script writer's mood and what embellishments he added.

I wonder if the current "treasure tri-corder" will work when you set it down on a desk, or on a rock on earth.
I wonder if it will work when you hold it in your hand ... :rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

P.S. Maybe off topic, but I'm trying to be broad here.

[Rudy]

At the risk of adding a little structure, I offer the following partitions. When dealing with electronic LRLs, we typically find a dowsing rod of sorts "hidden" somewhere. So we have:


Dowsing.
Current electronic LRLs and underlying "scientific principles of operation" and theory.
Future electronic LRLs and new underlying "scientific principles of operation and theory.



For the sake of the discussion, let us agree that there are individuals possessed with an innate dowsing ability, for some unknown reason. Taking this premise as a given, then these individuals are able to find water and or precious metals using inexpensive dowsing rods.

The current crop of LRLs are all based on pseudo science and voodoo magic, surrounding a dowsing rod as a pointing device and sold for an outrageous price. Now, it may be that some honest people have actually found something of value. If so, it may be that these individuals posses a keen dowsing ability and would have found the item with plain dowsing rods, in which case the electronic LRL has no value add. As a corollary, people without an innate dowsing ability will not find anything with these electronic LRLs except by sheer accident .

In summary, today's electronic LRLs are expensive and will possibly produce results only for those few individuals that could have found the treasure with simple dowsing rods (you know who you are). The mere mortals among us that can't dowse for water in a filled bath tub, would be wasting our hard earned money buying an electronic LRL because they won't work for us.

What will a future crop of electronic LRLs bring? I leave that to the inventiveness of LRL manufacturers to come up with it. Just please, try to do it without incorporating a dowsing rod.

[WM6]

For the sake of the discussion, let us agree that there are individuals possessed with an innate dowsing ability, for some unknown reason. Taking this premise as a given, then these individuals are able to find water and or precious metals using inexpensive dowsing rods.



If an innate dowsing ability really work, there is no magic, but siple explanation (scientifically explained 100 years ago), as for water dowsing (there are undoubted sign on soil surface and vegetation over water or specific metal deposits):

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,889099,00.html

[J_Player]

At the risk of adding a little structure, I offer the following partitions. When dealing with electronic LRLs, we typically find a dowsing rod of sorts "hidden" somewhere. So we have:


Dowsing.
Current electronic LRLs and underlying "scientific principles of operation" and theory.
Future electronic LRLs and new underlying "scientific principles of operation and theory.



For the sake of the discussion, let us agree that there are individuals possessed with an innate dowsing ability, for some unknown reason. Taking this premise as a given, then these individuals are able to find water and or precious metals using inexpensive dowsing rods.

The current crop of LRLs are all based on pseudo science and voodoo magic, surrounding a dowsing rod as a pointing device and sold for an outrageous price. Now, it may be that some honest people have actually found something of value. If so, it may be that these individuals posses a keen dowsing ability and would have found the item with plain dowsing rods, in which case the electronic LRL has no value add. As a corollary, people without an innate dowsing ability will not find anything with these electronic LRLs except by sheer accident .

In summary, today's electronic LRLs are expensive and will possibly produce results only for those few individuals that could have found the treasure with simple dowsing rods (you know who you are). The mere mortals among us that can't dowse for water in a filled bath tub, would be wasting our hard earned money buying an electronic LRL because they won't work for us.

What will a future crop of electronic LRLs bring? I leave that to the inventiveness of LRL manufacturers to come up with it. Just please, try to do it without incorporating a dowsing rod.Hmmmm....

If we accept for the sake of discussion that there are individuals possessed of an innate dowsing ability, then we remove the "broadness" of this thread which would allow Qiaozhi and Theseus to argue that dowsing is nothing more than a trick of the mind. However, we also conserve the "broadness" that allows many dowsers to introduce anecdotes of their dowsing prowess. Maybe it's a wash for maintaining broadness... :shrug:
But seeing how relevancy is said to be in the eye of the beholder, I suppose anything goes.

So accepting for the sake of argument that some individuals are possessed of an innate dowsing ability, another condition becomes apparent: The LRL manufacturers may agree that some people have an innate dowsing ability. And they may know that most of these rare people with an innate ability to dowse are not aware of their ability to dowse. If this is the case, these manufacturers may be counting on a few people with innate dowsing abilities to try their LRL and to discover they are finding treasures or other things their LRLs are said to find. Maybe the LRL user is unaware that dowsing is the principle under which he is finding things. So he becomes convinced the LRL is actually finding these things.

Is this possible?
Here is one page that lists the H3Tec detector along with the Sniffex and other similar detectors that look similar to a dowsing rod: http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/
Be sure to watch the video of the GT200 being opened in Tailand to show the electronics inside that makes it worth £22,000 ($36,000). You now have a clear view of what the circuit inside is reading when you insert one of the cards in the handle to set the machine to read any particular substance. Since there are no electronics, it looks to me like the only method left for it to find a bomb is dowsing. The government of Thailand has since banned the use of the GT200 for locating bombs.

And what about the LRLs for sale that do have electronics inside?
Do they work any better?
Or do they depend on dowsing abilities too?
You can watch a video of BBC Newsnight that shows several LRL bomb detectors that they investigated, along with a manufacturer of these detectors explaining how they work: http://gizmodo.com/5455692/ade+651-magic-wand-bomb-detector-is-a-fraud-probably-killed-hundreds

Ummm... Yup, I suppose it is possible.
If the LRL manufacturers are counting on a few people with innate dowsing abilities to provide testimonials that their LRLs really work to find things, then the result has been for most people who do not have this innate dowsing ability to fail to find things and maybe end up dead because their LRL did not locate a bomb. In the case of finding treasure, we see a lot of wasted time, empty holes, lost money, and used LRLs for sale at a discount.

Now I have done what Mr. Don wanted. I have made the discussion even broader.
Those people who do not believe that some individuals are possessed of an innate dowsing ability now have a reason to post the concept that dowsing is nothing more than a trick of the mind. They can point out that LRL treasure detectors and bomb detectors can only work when you already know where the treasure or bomb is located, thus filling this thread with more discussions that are perhaps non sequiturs to the concept of whether an LRL could ever work. But what the heck, it still makes for fun reading. :)

Hmmm... if it works only when you already know where the treasure or bomb is located, then why would you need the locator?
Wouldn't it be better to use a locator that finds the treasure or bomb when you don't know where it is located?
Maybe this could be the function of future electronic LRLs that are based on real science and can pass a double blind test to locate things like any toy metal detector can.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Rudy]

My reasoning is that it would avoid rat holing the discussions around hear say about someone finding something with it and letting us concentrate on the technical merits of how it is claimed to work.

[J_Player]

My reasoning is that it would avoid rat holing the discussions around hear say about someone finding something with it and letting us concentrate on the technical merits of how it is claimed to work.Hi Rudy.
You are correct.
Your reasoning to accept that dowsing actually works for some people would tend to discourage irrelevant anecdotes about finding things.
At the risk of defeating Mr. Don's request to make it broad, I could help concentrate on technical merits...

For a future electronic LRL the technical merits could be very interesting.
There are a number of emerging technologies that could be applied, and maybe work to locate things at long distance.
I suppose exploring the different embodiments and applications of new technology could be a nebulous undertaking, considering all the possibilities.

For existing electronic LRL technology, the technical merits are becoming stale.
We heard about the technical claims that cannot be proved by any independent tests, and cannot be shown to work if skeptical witnesses are watching them work.
In fact we heard how some of the technical claims were proven to be untrue.

These technical merits include finding hidden things such as treasures by detecting any of the following alleged things:

Detecting the location of a "signal line" which radiates from a hidden thing.
Detecting the location of ionic activity in the air from a distance.
Detecting the location of ionic activity in the ground from a distance.
Detecting the location of electrostatic activity in the air from a distance.
Detecting the location of charges in the soil from a distance.
Detecting the location of metal isotopes from a distance.
Detecting the location of molecular vibrations of a substance from a distance.
Detecting the location of acoustic vibrations of a substance from a distance.
Detecting the location of subatomic electronic distortions within a substance from a distance.
Detecting the location of infrared radiation from buried treasure on the surface of the ground from a distance.
Detecting anomalies of any of the above items from a distance.
Detecting the location of a Jinn, Leprechaun, or other spirit that is said to hide near where treasures are buried.

In many cases, the technical merits include a whip antenna which is moved by some force to point in the direction of the hidden object, or a circular coil that receives the strongest signal when its axis is pointing directly at the hidden object. As we know, these are the worst possible positions for a whip antenna or coil antenna to receive an RF signal, so it would seem the LRL signal is not RF in nature. The technical merits do not include the ability to pass a test where the LRL must find an object that someone hides for the LRL user to find. Since the theories of how LRLs work cannot be explained with regular known science, we still have pseudoscience to explain it, or ESP or dowsing or magic. Of course, there are some LRL enthusiasts who claim there are new scientific discoveries that are not known to mainstream science that explain how LRLs work. However, nobody has seen these new discoveries work to produce any useful results.

Maybe there is more to the discussion than what I have read before. Perhaps stories of homeless entrepreneurs sleeping in their car can help explain the technical merits of existing electronic LRLs?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Rudy]

Hi Rudy.
.
.
.
Detecting the location of a Jinn, Leprechaun, or other spirit that is said to hide near where treasures are buried.
.
.
.
J_P

That is a new one on me. Looks promising. Would it work anywhere or only in Arabia and Ireland? :rolleyes:

[J_Player]

That is a new one on me. Looks promising. Would it work anywhere or only in Arabia and Ireland? :rolleyes:I think it could work in South America and maybe other places too. When I asked Esteban about Jinns in Paraguay, he said you can "put a glass with whiskey near the treasure, probably Jinns leave his bad attitude and allow to find the treasure. Sometimes also a big cigar helps"! See details here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=96564&postcount=136

We also find further confirmation of the presence of Jinns as a worldwide treasure hunting hazard here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12663

And even more details about the problems of Jinns in the Remote Sensing forum here:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=94066#post94066
and here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=93433#post93433
and here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=87749#post87749

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9092&stc=1&d=1246699713

So far I have read posts which indicate the Jinn problems may be present in India, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Ireland, South America, North America, and into fringe areas of western China.
But could it be more extensive than we read about here?

We also see a report that the Mineoro FG-80 is able to detect spirits. This report originated at a website that has members who were present when they captured a Jinn on their videotape.
See here for more details: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=116434#post116434
If this report is true, then the FG-80 could be used to find Jinns where treasure is hidden. Sooner or later, the Jinn may leave the location of the treasure, making it safe to recover it while he is away.


Best wishes,
J_P

[Jim]

This should probably be over in this thread



Incidentally, I cured myself of terminal neck cancer 7 years ago and am still completely free of any symptoms. This is cured, not controlled.



for those at home keeping score of the hits and misses

[Don Jose de La Mancha]

good morning gentlemen: Interestng group of opening posts, most of which I, naturally , disagree with,including the present claims of LRL's.. This does not mean that they couldn't or don't work, but the present description and theories probably are incorrect.

However, there is no doubt in my mind that the technologly will some day be successfully utilized.

As for dowsing ability, even Carl has admitted that he can do it, but didn't find it to be too practical.

To get the other misc materiel over with -->

Explorers Club?? I was elected as a member for explorations in old China / Gobi, the Pacific basin, the Yucatan /Quintana Roo jungles looking for Mayan ruins while living off of the jungle for 6 months, , the still basically unknown barrancas of north western Mexico. And for actually finding the Legendary Lost Jesuit mine of Tayopa, which I presently own, and the Jesuit plot, in colaboration with the Dutch, to take North America away from Spain, the actual reason for their expulsion.. If you wish to read more about tayopa -->

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/board,75.0.html

As for swr's Atlantis, so far no one has proved it incorrect, but remember, until we can explore some 12,000 ft under water it probably will never be confirmed or proven incorrect.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,149487.0.html post # 51 & especially # 83


Explorers club -->www.explorers.org (http://www.explorers.org). I am MI 03


Military service 1941, Guadalcanal Aug 11, 1942, USAF Pilot officer training after the war,

US Border Patrol, McAllen sector and so on for a checkered career of being an escapist from society.

K so much for that !

Swr has finally posted something correctly and which I agree with he posted -->
@##$%%^^%%&^^^ .

As for posts, If 'THE JC' could speak and demonstrate in Parables so can this JC. so quite complaining and put on your thinking caps adjusted correctly. I sincerely hope that your mind is flexible enough. he he he

Regarding the post in Geo- "No Gardeners", a typo boo boo, for which I am infamous. that was referring to the Old 'Gardner', an excellent off resonance metal detector.

Enough for now for you to attack, lead the way swr, J_P, Jim.

Don Jose de La Mancha

"I exist to Live, not live to exist".

[Rudy]

And for actually finding the Legendary Lost Jesuit mine of Tayopa, which I presently own, and the Jesuit plot, in colaboration with the Dutch, to take North America away from Spain, the actual reason for their expulsion.. If you wish to read more about tayopa -->

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/board,75.0.html


http://www.bc-alter.net/dfriesen/tayopagold.html

[Don Jose de La Mancha]

Hi Rudy, yes that is one version of my mine. A 'working' lrl would be handy up there. he hehe May I add, a gentleman in Alaska map dowsed Tayopa with an aprox. hit of 80% on what I have already identified. To date he has never been up there ??

Don Jose de La Mancha

"I exist to Live, not live to exist".

[J_Player]

Hi Mr. Don,
Nice to see you return for more fascinating discussions of arenques rojos :).

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/circuit_diagram.png

HIO JP I have been waiting patiently for you to tell me what the effective resistance in the comb of 1 ohm resistors is.

Don Jose de La Mancha
In answer to your question, why would you ever wait for me to tell you that?
The context of this circuit makes the net resistance irrelevant, in addition to two other problems: 1) The syntax of this circuit also makes the net resistance irrelevant, and 2) There is at least one junction where it is hard to determine with certainty which resistors are connected and which are bypassing the junction. And a further problem, 3) this circuit has clearly been altered by nearby Jinns guarding a treasure.

We can no longer expect this circuit to do reliably whatever it did in the past due to major alterations in the functioning of key components which have been substituted with selected animals (animal rights proponents may have something to say about this.... but to whom do they complain? The evasive Jinns who perpetrated this sabotage? ).

Of course, nobody would believe the story of how it was Jinns what done it, same as most folks don't believe it was Jesuits trying to make Dutch dignitaries owners of the new world that caused their expulsion, rather than the story of skimping on their royal 5th. It seems weird how EEs decided to hide the truth of the Jinns messing with the dowsing rod circuit, Just like the king of Spain decided to hide the truth of his reasons to recall the Jesuits.
Very strange... :shrug:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Don Jose de La Mancha]

HIO JP: Quit skirting the question, what is the effective resistance? Heheheh


Don Jose de La Mancha

[Don Jose de La Mancha]

JP mi buddy: You alss posted -->as most folks don't believe it was Jesuits trying to make Dutch dignitaries owners of the new world that caused their expulsion, rather than the story of skimping on their royal 5th. It
**********
Cause most don't think or do their own unbiased research.

Don Jose de La Mancha

[J_Player]

HIO JP: Quit skirting the question, what is the effective resistance? Heheheh


Don Jose de La ManchaAha...!
But the issue is more important than the question.

What animal rights activist would care about the effective resistance when a rodent and a bat are connected near a 240v source?
And it is well known that Jinns typically wreak havoc to circuitry when treasure hunters bring the circuit to the vicinity of a treasure they are guarding. This is clear evidence that this electronic dowsing rod was working at one time (before the Jinn got a hold of it). So there is hope after all... :cool:

What treasure hunter wouldn't want to use an electronic dowsing rod after seeing it can bring them so close to a treasure that a Jinn will sabotage the equipment? It appears we have the beginnings of a problem brewing between treasure hunters and animal rights activists. Will treasure hunters continue to take their electronic treasure locators into areas where Jinns reek havoc and substitute small animals for circuit components? Will the animal rights activists be able to put a stop to this wanton disregard for animal safety as treasure hunters take their contraptions directly into the heart of buried and guarded treasures that result in animal abuse? :eek:

We shall see as the saga of animal torment unfolds....

Best wishes,
J_P