Dowsing revisited

[Mike(Mont)]

Obviously there is much misunderstanding concerning dowsing. Let's face it, the typical beginner is going to stare at the pendulum (or rod) until they are hypnotized then the wishful thinking takes over while all the time the person is swaying around like a drunk and believing the rod is pulling them in a certain direction.

Sounds exagerated but it isn't. You gotta emotionally detach yourself from the search. I mean for most beginners the rod is the elephant in the room and it draws all of the person's attention. It might sound stupid, but you are not searching for the rod. And besides, when you focus all your vision (and attention) on an object you are left side brain dominant. That's something a beginner has to overcome. Probably heard about using a soft focus and for me, I like to direct this to a spot a couple inches past the tip of the rod and direct this thought energy outwards like a search light/beam. This is when I use the "Mind's Eye" thing. I describe it as "Seeing with the subconscious" which is probably a misnomer as everything comes through there first. But if you think of the human body as a transceiver there is a circuit--your energy going out and then you try to feel the effects on the target field. People talk about field pressure, field membrane, etc. that surrounds a target. I have described the process as the search beam (thought energy) is an extension of the rod and I use it sort of like a truckdriver uses a tire iron to thump the tires to check for air pressure only we're dealing with field pressure here. And in case you didn't realize, the field pressure is not going to feel real strong for a beginner. Of course knowing how to use the rod as an extension of yourself is really going to improve your sensitivity. Try rubbing the palms of your hands flat together for 60 seconds. Now slowly move your hands closer together (don't touch together) and try to feel the charge (field pressure)there. It takes time for your hands to wake up and feel the subtle energies. I describe it as a flickering like when a neon light is starting up. I have also heard to hold your opposite hand down a foot lower so you get a bit more voltage to work with.

If you continue to practice, one day things will gel. And once you learn what it feels like then you know what to look for next time.

A bit more on the left brain obstacle. Your vision can input large amounts of info to your brain, up to 80% of sensory data. So this is the main one your need to filter out, thus the soft focus, etc. But even once you have learned to do this, you still need to learn to halt the mental processes which I might refer to as prejudices we all have. Some people really do think they are so special that they don't even need to address this issue.

BTW, I suppose this word will get banned, but the internet is a breeding ground for
sociopaths. When I call someone that, it's a polite way to mean just about every swear word in the book!

[Qiaozhi]

Complete gobbledygook and mystical nonsense. :frown:

Theseus - For me this is a lost cause. I'll leave this one to you. ;)

[Jim]

BTW, I suppose this word will get banned, but the internet is a breeding ground for
sociopaths. When I call someone that, it's a polite way to mean just about every swear word in the book!



Hiya Mike!

I agree, the internet is a breeding ground for sociopaths. Here are two examples of a sociopath LRL proponent here on Geotech

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=118960&postcount=131

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=118965&postcount=133


Are you a sociopath, Mike?

[WM6]

If you continue to practice, one day things will gel.
And once you learn what it feels like then you know what to look for next time.



If you continue to practice, one day you will get dead.
And once you learn what all you miss in real life, there was no chance for next time.

[Theseus]

If you continue to practice, one day you will get dead.
And once you learn what all you miss in real life, there was no chance for next time.

I could not have said it better. Imagine, devoting (wasting) the best part of a lifetime to chasing pendulums and dowsing rods around; and still not understanding that there are no physical energies to be sensed, and that the whole concept is a trick of the mind - a simple ideomotor response.

I might add just one thing; if Mike knows and understands all he iterated in the opening post, wouldn't it be safe to assume he must be one of the most successful (if not THE most successful) dowsers on the face of the Earth?

And, if he's not, .....well, I guess he just needs some more practice. ;)

[Saturna]

Let's face it, the typical beginner is going to stare at the pendulum (or rod) until they are hypnotized then the wishful thinking takes over while all the time the person is swaying around like a drunk and believing the rod is pulling them in a certain direction.



Hey, you don't have to be a beginner to do that. :D

[g-sani]

Hey Mike why you don't just let people keep searching for the super LRL?
Don't you see they are blind?
They have it inside them but they keep looking arround them.
I start believing you are a missionary my friend.:lol: :lol: :lol:
Anyway I am still reading anything related to dowsing and this includes your posts as well.

You should be over here Mike.
Greece is a dowsers paradise for sure!;)

[WM6]

.
Greece is a dowsers paradise for sure!



Therefore forever the paradise of undiscovered treasures too.


Here some help to believers for free:

Digital humidity sensor - free sample:

http://www.sensirion.com/en/01_humidity_sensors/05_humidity_sensor_sht21/00_humidity_sensor_sht21.htm

[g-sani]

Therefore forever the paradise of undiscovered treasures too.


Here some help to believers for free:......


If you consider as a believer somebody that unearthed treassure more than once using dowsing then I have to admit it.
Yes I am a believer.
And if you think that if this that I am saying is truth then it can only be happened by chance then you have no idea of what treasure hunting is about and never mind your knowledge about electronics.:D
I know you don't take me seriously anyway.Just joking WM6!

[hung]

then you have no idea of what treasure hunting is about

100% correct. Not only in his case, but in the case of some 'enlighteneds' here.


and never mind your knowledge about electronics.:DHow much? If he can't understand the simple law of charges?

Hey George, I salute your gift as a dowser. I have read here your success.
Unfortunately I cannot dowse with rods.
But I do use very well the RT Examiner which is not dowsing and it worked for me.

Actually the term dowsing is so limiting and so vast at the same time, that it's frequently misused in forums like this one.
I know someone who is a gifted person. He can 'remote view' persons and particular situations happening at that same instant in another place. That is, he has the ability of remote viewing past the 'n' space barrier. This means a wave propagation not restricted to the time and space continuum.

Of course there are hundreds and even thousands of persons like himself. He is not the only one.

Of couse the skeptics here will bash this and will not believe it. But that's exactly what their limited minds tell them to do. Simply bash something you do not understand instead of study it. Too much work for the mind.:lol:
Thank God I don't belong to this group.

George, as soon as the TNET forum is up again, I will forward you to a very popular thread I started there called 'When Science Shouts to the Deaf'.
In this thread I tell the factual and real case of experiments that happened in China, 1981, when several children and adults could teleport objects including radio transmitters from one location to another. This all was documented and video taped.
This confirms the nature of electron as a wave and its broadcast not limited to dimensional barriers.

In the thread I publish the conclusions of Eric Davis of Warp Drive Metrics, an organization that was used by the US Military to write a report on this.

Best regards.

[Qiaozhi]

100% correct. Not only in his case, but in the case of some 'enlighteneds' here.
100% wrong. :nono:

How much? If he can't understand the simple law of charges?

Hey George, I salute your gift as a dowser. I have read here your success.
Unfortunately I cannot dowse with rods.
But I do use very well the RT Examiner which is not dowsing and it worked for me.
Yet another example of your erroneous beliefs. The RT Examiner is a dowsing rod, despite the misleading claims of the manufacturer. :rolleyes:

Actually the term dowsing is so limiting and so vast at the same time, that it's frequently misused in forums like this one.
I know someone who is a gifted person. He can 'remote view' persons and particular situations happening at that same instant in another place. That is, he has the ability of remote viewing past the 'n' space barrier. This means a wave propagation not restricted to the time and space continuum.
Pseudo-scientific gobbledygook. :razz:

Of course there are hundreds and even thousands of persons like himself. He is not the only one.
Poor misguided individuals, somewhat like yourself. ;)

Of couse the skeptics here will bash this and will not believe it. But that's exactly what their limited minds tell them to do. Simply bash something you do not understand instead of study it. Too much work for the mind.:lol:
The skeptics here fully understand these so-called paranormal activities, and if you had studied the phenomena to any degree you would not be supporting this nonsense. :frown:

Thank God I don't belong to this group.
There is no deity involved. Membership of the skeptic group comes from knowledge of the real world, not living a fantasy. :cool:

George, as soon as the TNET forum is up again, I will forward you to a very popular thread I started there called 'When Science Shouts to the Deaf'.
In this thread I tell the factual and real case of experiments that happened in China, 1981, when several children and adults could teleport objects including radio transmitters from one location to another. This all was documented and video taped.
This confirms the nature of electron as a wave and its broadcast not limited to dimensional barriers.
You have already posted this rubbish once in the Geotech forums, and you were severely kicked as a result. It never ceases to amaze me how you completely accept all and any paranormal crap that comes your way, even without a shred of evidence.

In the thread I publish the conclusions of Eric Davis of Warp Drive Metrics, an organization that was used by the US Military to write a report on this.
Really? :lol:

[WM6]

The skeptics here fully understand these so-called paranormal activities, and if you had studied the phenomena to any degree you would not be supporting this nonsense. :frown:



Unexperienced, not open-minded, uncritical, blind believer => remain believer

Experienced, open minded, critical, eager to learn believer => become skeptic

In general: all skeptics are (former) believers.

[g-sani]

100% correct. Not only in his case, but in the case of some 'enlighteneds' here.
.........................

George, as soon as the TNET forum is up again, I will forward you to a very popular thread I started there called 'When Science Shouts to the Deaf'.
In this thread I tell the factual and real case of experiments that happened in China, 1981, when several children and adults could teleport objects including radio transmitters from one location to another. This all was documented and video taped.
This confirms the nature of electron as a wave and its broadcast not limited to dimensional barriers.

In the thread I publish the conclusions of Eric Davis of Warp Drive Metrics, an organization that was used by the US Military to write a report on this.

Best regards.

It will be very interesting Hung to watch such a video.Please let me know the link as soon as it is up.
I read a lot about remote viewing projects and one thing I will study next is remote viewing for sure.
A good friend of mine is really charismatic in both dowsing and remote viewing and that's how I personally knew it works.From one point of view I was really lucky to have a friend like that since it gave me the oportunity to know that these things work when others just have to figure this on themselves.I believe this is why I keep trying telling even to skeptics that dowsing works.
It is not that dificult if somebody wants to show you how and what to do.
Dowsing(physical) can be easily learned if there is somebody available to guide you through.Of course he must be willing to share his secrets whith you otherwise your steps will be much much slower and may be you will not reach the level that you could possibly reach.Guidance is very important in dowsing since practise goes side by side whith theory plus there are things missed from bibliography which can make the difference as well.
Many times somebody reads a book and everything in there is known because he read so much about the subject.But suddenly he reads a bit saying something that he never read before and then he realises that it was worthy reading the same things again because there was a jewel between them.This is how it goes and somebody must be eager to learn if he really wants to do so.
Is it so difficult for people to understand that if the US military spent time and money about such concepts then it will be something real there for sure.Apart from that they gave those projects for study to their best officers which says something as well.
I keep track of sources related to these subjects Hung and one of them is also the following link. http://www.learnrv.com/eddames.cfm (http://www.learnrv.com/eddames.cfm)

Best wishes
g-sani

[hung]

George, thanks for the link. The Remote Viewing Project by the US Military is cited in Eric's report and was another front aimed to study also the events ocured in China.

I have no info about the whereabouts of the videos made at that time. Probably is in China's pocession only or maybe the Military also have them.

The good news is that I forgot that I had that TNET thread saved in my computer.

I will post it bellow, so you and others can read, learn and acknowledge what is happening out there.

Have a good reading.:)

[hung]

PREAMBLE


From an honest opinion an logical aspect, Long Range Locator forums be either this one or any other, should primarily and solely be used to exchange ideas, better techiques, new aproaches and healthy information to treasure hunting among its participants. A forum like this would naturally include LRL users or proponents in its majority. I even admit that some arguing is normal among members but unfortunately what we have seen for years, is a huge proliferation of some skeptic cult with true 'wild' tactics of misinformation, name callings, personal attacks and ultimately, complete deterioration strategy against LRL users when they make posts trying to exchange information.


In an ideal forum etiquete, a skeptic is perfectly granted participation, as long as he contributes to the theme, refuting points of views if so, but in a high level and respectful manner.
This is not what we have seen here for a long time.
Some skeptics remain vociferating their disaproval against LRL users, making use of a discrediting tactic to the point of being personal. Others use this tactic based on a 'supposed' scientific basis to serve as 'evidence' on why LRLs do not work.


I have always stated in a forum that a member here owns, about how I never felt like starting a serious discussion about scientific matters involving LRLs simply due to an entire impossibility considering the oriented agenda against them and the prevailing mentality of a few
members, including a recently 'in charge' administrator/moderator who rages against LRLs.. Every temptative in the past in even starting a simple discussion ended up in failure, and the ambient more than often always turned into a 'zoo'.
Heck, even now there's a long time soviet member who all of a sudden got allucinated and now preaches the complete extinction of all the remote sensing forum, even stating that USA supports fraud, etc.
And this guy has never joined the RS forum in his life! He belongs to the schematics forum and all of a sudden he fell from the upper floor and landed down there...
Geezz... I really did not expect the increase in LRL sales would disturb some MD manufacturers so soon ...


Days ago, this was posted here against myself:
“It's difficult to discuss any kind of "scientific evidence" with you because you have such strong beliefs in all manners of pseudoscience, and a tendency to fabricate your own terms and definitions to suit your "theories".


As I stated already, it was never my intention discussing any substantial scientific matters involving in this case, LRLs, simply because it is not worth it for the previously stated reasons. But the sentence pronounced by someone who proclaims himself 'scientific', contained so much BS and garbage in that it deliberately tries to distort my scientific background that I considered opening an exception in his case that would make this person swallow his own words. So, as from facts there is no 'twisting and dodging', I chose to pick a single one out of the several in existence in the world scientific data bank, including some experiments I know of and some I have even participate on, to objectively ilustrate how idiotic the prevailing attitude of some skeptics here who inconsequently try to use science as a shield against their ignorance or an alibi for things they do not understand is.


I asked the skeptics if it was possible to broadcast RF signals through a multidimensional space.
No answer.
Even after 3 clues, no indication they knew what I was talking about.
Why I was not a bit suprised? Simply because had them had access to serious scientific data, and happened to not use their high school physics, the only one they know as their 'wikepedia', they would not be here ranting their 'mambo jambo ' about 'pseudoscience'.
I sincerely expect that after introducing this single event and after allowing them some time to 'digest' and realize the HUGE consequences those events had to science, in particular to 'quantum mechanics', skeptics finally become more educated on what is going on out there scientifically speaking, and revise their stupid behaviors in the LRL forum.
They can even state they still do not believe in LRLs, do not believe in psychotronics and do not share the same conclusions about the phenomena to be covered here.
But they SHALL NEVER again proclaim science they are not up to understand as 'pseudoscience'. If they do, they will be doomed to ridicule. Against FACTS simply there are NO REFUTATIONS.


I hope this has become crystal clear to them.


****************

[hung]

The facts described bellow happened around september 1981 in Peoples Republic of China.
There were several outstanding phenomena which serves our signal lines case to be inserted directly or indirectly as an understanding on how they manifest.
Proof that the events happened exactly as it is presented are fully documented, video taped and were operated under exceptionally well controlled conditions (both blind and double-blind). The researchers involved included not only observers from various PRC colleges and medical research institutes, but also representatives from the PRC National Defense Science Commission.


So here are the scientific facts and events that happened. Again, all proved, recorded and documented.


1 - Through the use of psychokinesis, physical p-teleportation of objects and substances was achieved by two gifted children, Ping and Chang and also by some young adults.


2 – The objects teleported from one sealed box in one corner to the other in a room included among others, live insects, inanimate objects, photosensitive papers, machanical watches and even radio microtransmitters.


3 - The high-speed photography/videotaping recorded in one series of experiments showed that test specimens would physically “meld” or blend with the walls of sealed containers; and recorded in a different series of experiments that test specimens would simply disappear from inside the container only
to reappear at another location.






The detailed case of events:


An spectacular series of rigorously controlled (and repeatable!) laboratory experiments occurred in the Peoples Republic of China (PRC). In September 1981, an extraordinary paper was published in the PRC in the journal Ziran Zazhi (transl.: Nature Journal), and this paper was entitled, “Some Experiments on the Transfer of Objects Performed by Unusual Abilities of the Human Body” (Shuhuang et al., 1981). The paper reported that gifted children were able to cause the apparent teleportation of small objects (radio micro-transmitters, photosensitive paper, mechanical watches, horseflies, other insects, etc.) from one location to another (that was meters away) without them ever touching the objects beforehand. The experiments were operated under exceptionally well- controlled conditions (both blind and double-blind). The researchers involved included not only observers from various PRC colleges and medical research institutes, but also representatives from the PRC National Defense Science Commission." The radio micro-transmitter used as a test specimen in one series of experiments (Shuhuang et al., 1981) transmitted a radio signal to several stationary electronic instruments/receivers, so that the specimen could be tracked and monitored (via signal amplitude and frequency measurements) during the teleportation process; the experimenters discovered that there was large fluctuations in the intensity (in both amplitude and frequency) of the monitored signal to the effect that it would either completely disappear or become extremely weak (to the extent that the monitoring instruments could scarcely detect it) – it was discovered that there was a definite correlation between the change in strength (i.e., radical frequency shifts were observed) of the monitored radio signal and the teleportation of the test specimen, such that the weak or absent signal indicated that the specimen was “nonexistent” (or in an altered physical state) during teleportation (note: the monitored signal amplitude and frequency of the micro-transmitter specimen were stable before and after teleportation);





Recently, a documented report written by Eric Davis and produced by WARPDRIVE METRICS for the military, under request of the Air Force Research Laboratory – Missile and Propulsion Division in Edwards ARB-California, has been unclassified and it's now in public domain.


This report was made first as a scientific analysis and current physics background for teleportation experiment viability and also as an attempt to explain the events happened in China, It also covers several types of teleportation according to the current understanding of physics.


Several hypotesis were formulated for the Chinese TK case. I intend to post parts of it, but I thought to post the final conclusion part first, just to ilustrate how a serious conducted research honestly and fearless act when it runs out of sufficient data publicly recognizing their incapacity of any deeper understanding with only the current science available. And literally states:


“We will need a physics theory of consciousness and psychotronics, along with more experimental
data, in order to test the hypothesis and discover the physical mechanisms that lay behind
the psychotronic manipulation of matter.”

[hung]

Some selected parts of the report:
(Bolds and Notes by me)


THE PHENOMENON


P-Teleportation is a form of psychokinesis (or PK) similar to telekinesis but generally used to
designate the movement of objects (called apports) through other physical objects or over great distances.
Telekinesis is a form of PK, which describes the movement of stationary objects without the use of any
known physical force. And PK is essentially the direct influence of mind on matter without any known
intermediate physical energy or instrumentation. Rigorously controlled modern scientific laboratory PK,
and related psychic (a.k.a. “psi”, “paranormal” or parapsychology), research has been performed and/or
documented by Rhine (1970), Schmidt (1974), Mitchell (1974a, b, see also the references cited therein),
Swann (1974), Puthoff and Targ (1974, 1975), Hasted et al. (1975), Targ and Puthoff (1977), Nash (1978,
see also the references cited therein), Shigemi et al. (1978), Hasted (1979), Houck (1984a), Wolman et al.
(1986, see also the references cited therein), Schmidt (1987), Alexander et al. (1990), Giroldini (1991),
Gissurarson (1992), Radin (1997, see also the references cited therein), Tart et al. (2002), Shoup (2002),
and Alexander (2003).
A well-known theoretical/experimental/operational program directed by H. E. Puthoff, R. Targ, E.
May and I. Swann was conducted at SRI International and the NSA, and sponsored at various times by
the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), and the Army
Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM) over more than two decades; and the program was later
carried on by E. May at SAIC (Alexander, 1980; Puthoff, 1996; Targ, 1996; Schnabel, 1997; Tart et al.,
2002). This was called the Remote Viewing program, and it was a compartmentalized special access
program possessing a variety of codenames during its 22 years of operation. Remote viewing involves
precognition and clairvoyance, and it allows a practitioner to acquire information irrespective of
intervening distance or time. The Remote Viewing program ended in 1994 and President W. J. Clinton
officially declassified it in 1995. The reader should note that the very first U. S. military-intelligence
R&D programs on psi, PK and mind control were conducted by H. K. (Andrija) Puharich, M.D., L.L.D
during his military service at the Army Chemical and Biological Warfare Center at Fort Detrick,
Maryland in the 1940s-50s. Puharich had an interest in clairvoyance and PK, and dabbled in theories for
electronically and pharmaceutically enhancing and synthesizing psychic abilities. While in the Army,
Puharich took part in a variety of parapsychology experiments, and he lectured Army, Air Force and
Navy groups on possibilities for mind warfare. He was a recognized expert in hypnotism and
microelectronics.


IN ACTION


PK phenomenon was also explored in the Remote Viewing program. Col. J. B. Alexander (USA ret.)
credits professional aerospace engineer Jack Houck for “capturing PK phenomenon and transitioning it
into an observable form” (Houck, 1982, 1984a, b; Alexander et al., 1990; Alexander, 2003). During the
past three decades, Houck (along with Alexander) held a number of PK sessions, whereby attendees are
taught the PK induction process, and initiate their own PK events using various metal specimens (forks,
spoons, etc.). Individuals were able to completely bend or contort their metal specimens with no physical
force being applied whatsoever. Numerous government science advisors and senior military officials
took part in and/or witnessed these events, which took place at the Pentagon, at officers’ or scientists’
homes, and at one quarterly INSCOM retreat attended by the commanding general and a group of
colonels and generals commanding INSCOM units around the globe. Spontaneous deformation of the
metal specimens was observed at the PK session conducted during the INSCOM retreat, causing a great
deal of excitement among those present. Other notable trained observers were also present at this session,
and they critically reviewed the events. Psychic Uri Geller (1975) is the original model for demonstrating
PK metal bending.
During a talk that he gave at the U.S. Capitol building, Uri caused a spoon to curve
upward with no force applied, and then the spoon continued to bend after he put it back down and
continued with his talk (Alexander, 1996). Jack Houck continues doing extensive experimental work and
data collection on micro- and macro-PK phenomena. Scientifically controlled PK experiments at the
Princeton University Engineering Anomalies Research Laboratory were conducted by Robert Jahn (Dean
Emeritus of the School of Engineering), who reported that repeatedly consistent results in mentally
affecting material substances has been demonstrated in the lab (Jahn and Dunne, 1987). In the 1980s,
Jahn attended a meeting on the PK topic at the Naval Research Laboratory, and warned that foreign
adversaries could exploit micro- or macro-PK to induce U.S. military fighter pilots to lose control of their
aircraft and crash.


Note by me: This PK possibility was extensviely explored in Montauk Air Force Base, later known as The Montauk Project.


URI GELLER
(Randi practically lost all his hair in a 'freaking jealous attack' after this, he,he,he)


'However, most of the credible, scientific reports of p-Teleportation phenomenon and related (controlled)
experiments occurred in the late 20th century (see for example, Alexander et al., 1990; Radin, 1997).
Some of that scientific work involved the investigation of Uri Geller and a variety of other recurrent
spontaneous PK phenomena (Hasted et al., 1975; Puthoff and Targ, 1975; Targ and Puthoff, 1977; Nash,
1978; Wolman et al., 1986).
One of the more interesting examples of controlled experiments with Uri Geller was one in which he
was able to cause a part of a vanadium carbide crystal to vanish (Hasted et al., 1975). The crystal was
encapsulated so it could not be touched, and it was placed in such a way that it could not be switched with
another crystal by sleight of hand.'

[hung]

EXPERIMENTS IN CHINA


All of the Chinese experiments reported using gifted children and young adults, who possessed well-known extraordinary PK ability, to cause the teleportation of the various test specimens. In all the experimental cases that were reported, the test specimens that were teleported were completely unaltered or unchanged from their initial state, even the insects were unaffected by being teleported. The experiments were well controlled, scientifically recorded, and the experimental results were always repeatable.
The Chinese papers are all extremely interesting and very well written, and they show photographs
and schematic diagrams of the various experimental setups. The experimental protocols were explained
in lengthy detail, and thorough data and statistical analysis were presented in the results. The combined
results from the several Chinese experiments showed that:


�� different research groups designed different experimental protocols, used different gifted
psychics, used different sealed containers, and used different test specimens (live insects, bulk
inanimate objects, and even radio micro-transmitters were used to track the location of the
specimens) that were to be teleported;


�� the time required for the teleportation of test specimens through various barriers was anywhere
from a fraction of a second to several minutes, and this was not dependent on the test specimen
that was used, the sealed container that was used (or its barrier thickness), which experimental
protocol was used, or which psychic was being used.


�� the high-speed photography/videotaping recorded in one series of experiments that test specimens
would physically “meld” or blend with the walls of sealed containers; and recorded in a different
series of experiments that test specimens would simply disappear from inside the container only
to reappear at another location (after seconds to several minutes of time transpired), such that the
test specimen did not actually undergo total material disintegration/reintegration during
teleportation – this data is important, because without the aid of electronic monitoring
instruments, the average person’s sensory organs and usual methods of detection are temporarily
unable to perceive the test specimen’s (ambiguous) existence during the teleportation process;


�� the radio micro-transmitter used as a test specimen in one series of experiments (Shuhuang et al.,
1981) transmitted a radio signal to several stationary electronic instruments/receivers, so that the
specimen could be tracked and monitored (via signal amplitude and frequency measurements)
during the teleportation process; the experimenters discovered that there was large fluctuations in
the intensity (in both amplitude and frequency) of the monitored signal to the effect that it would
either completely disappear or become extremely weak (to the extent that the monitoring
instruments could scarcely detect it) – it was discovered that there was a definite correlation
between the change in strength (i.e., radical frequency shifts were observed) of the monitored
radio signal and the teleportation of the test specimen, such that the weak or absent signal
indicated that the specimen was “nonexistent” (or in an altered physical state) during teleportation
(note: the monitored signal amplitude and frequency of the micro-transmitter specimen were
stable before and after teleportation);


�� before and after “passing through the container wall/barrier”, the test specimen and the
container’s wall/barrier are both complete solid objects;


�� the gifted psychics were never allowed to see (they were blindfolded in many experiments) or
touch each of the test specimens or the sealed containers before and after experiments were
conducted, and only the experimenters touched the specimens and containers (using both blind
and double-blind protocols);


�� the experimental results were all repeatable


�� the conditions for fraud and sleight of hand were totally eliminated, and multiple independent
outside witnesses (technical and military-intelligence experts) were present at all times to ensure
total fidelity of the experiments
RADIO TRANSMITTER


The experimental radio micro-transmitter and high-speed photography/videotaping data offer an
important clue on what the teleportation mechanism is, and this will be discussed further.
The Chinese were unable to offer any significant physics hypothesis that could explain their results.
Some researchers stated that it is necessary to invoke a new physics, which somehow unifies the human consciousness (i.e., physics of consciousness) with quantum and spacetime physics, in order to
understand p-Teleportation and related PK phenomena. The researchers were amazed by their repeated results, and were barely able to fathom the altered “state of being” that test specimens underwent during teleportation.

[hung]

WHAT THE RUSSIANS ALREADY KNEW


Psychotronics is the general term that was used in the former Soviet Union/Warsaw Pact countries to
categorize many psychic phenomena undergoing scientific research. The conclusions that were reached
in the DIA reports are that within the category of psychotronics, the Soviets identified two discrete skills
(LaMothe, 1972):


�� bioenergetics: those phenomena associated with the production of objectively detectable effects
such as psychokinesis, telekinesis, levitation effects, transformations of energy, i.e. the altering or
affecting of matter


�� bioinformation: those phenomena associated with the obtaining of information through means
other than the normal sensory channels (i.e., ESP), such as telepathy, precognition, and clairvoyance, i.e., using the mind to tap into the thoughts of others or to acquire present or future
information about objective events in the world


Note: Bioenergetics applied Bioinformation...obtaining information through means other than normal sensory channels..
Hey dowsers, does it sound familiar?


Here is the link to the 'Teleportation Physics Study' complete report.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf (http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf)










THE EXPLANATION


These phenomena involve using the mind and/or some “field” of the body to affect other minds and
inanimate objects irrespective of intervening distance or elapsed time, and without engaging any
conventional tools. Bioenergetics and bioinformation are two classifications that form a single branch of
science the Soviets preferred to call biocommunications. Soviet biocommunications research is primarily
concerned with exploring the existence of a definite group of natural phenomena controlled by laws that
are not based on any known (energetic) influence. The types of biocommunication (a.k.a. psychotronics)
phenomena includes special sensory biophysical activities, brain and mind control, telepathic
communications or bioinformation transceiving, bioluminescent and bioenergetic emissions, and the
effects of altered states of consciousness on the human psyche. Psychotronics and remote viewing
provide capabilities that have obvious intelligence applications. The Soviets and their Warsaw Pact allies
invested millions of dollars in psychotronics R&D because they understood this, and saw the potential
payoff for military and intelligence applications.


USA RESPONDS


The U.S. response to Soviet psychotronics R&D programs was the Remote Viewing program. In
addition, the U.S. Army began the JEDI Project in 1983, which sought to increase human potential using
teachable models of behavioral/physical excellent by unconventional means (Alexander et al., 1990). The
JEDI Project was essentially a human-performance modeling experiment based on neuro-linguistic
programming (NLP) skills, whereby advanced influence technologies to model excellence in human
performance was used. The program ran under the auspices of the Army INSCOM and the
Organizational Effectiveness School, and was sponsored by a U.S. government interagency task force.
Finally, it should be pointed out that the program had successfully trained several hundred people,
including members of Congress (such as Al Gore, Jr. and Tom Downey), before being terminated.


ADVICE TO SKEPTICS
(humm.. again?)


There is a wealth of factual scientific research data from around the world attesting to the physical
reality of p-Teleportation and related anomalous psi phenomena (Mitchell, 1974b; Targ and Puthoff,
1977; Nash, 1978; Radin, 1997; Tart et al., 2002). The skeptical reader should not be so quick to dismiss
the subject matter in this chapter, because one must remain open-minded about this subject and consider
p-Teleportation as worthy of further scientific exploration. The psychotronics topic is controversial
within the western scientific community. The debate among scientists and scientific philosophers is
highly charged at times, and becomes acrimonious to the point where reputable skeptical scientists cease
being impartial by refusing to examine the experimental data or theories, and they prefer to bypass
rational discourse by engaging in ad hominem attacks and irrational “armchair” arguments.
P-Teleportation and related phenomena are truly anomalous, and they challenge accepted modern
scientific paradigm.


Note: Hey, think our sketpthics here are better than theirs, he,he?


CONCLUSIONS


Proposition 1 and Fact 2:
It has been proposed that our space actually possesses a slight fourdimensional
hyperthickness, so that the ultimate components of our nervous system are actually
higher dimensional, thus enabling the human mind/brain to imagine four-dimensional space
(Hinton, 1888, 1904; Rucker, 1977). If this is the case, then the three-dimensional nets of
neurons that code thoughts in our brain may form four-dimensional patterns to achieve fourdimensional
thought. The “bulk” space in 3-brane theory (see Section 4.1), and experimental
data from the Remote Viewing program (see Section 5.1), provide support for this concept. Can
we see into the 4th dimension and have four-dimensional thoughts? Yes, we can. Proof (see,
Rucker, 1977, 1984): If you look at a Necker cube for a while, it spontaneously turns into its
mirror image and back again. If you watch it do this often enough, the twinkling sort of motion
from one state to the other begins to seem like a continuous motion. But this motion can only be
continuous if it is a rotation in four-dimensional space. The mathematician August F. Möbius
discovered in 1827 that it is in fact possible to turn a three-dimensional solid object into its mirror
image by an appropriate rotation through four-dimensional space (a.k.a. hyperspace rotation).
Thus, it is actually possible for our minds to perform such a rotation. Therefore, we can actually
produce four-dimensional phenomenon in our minds, so our consciousness is four-dimensional.
Rucker (1984) shows another dramatic example of being able to see into the 4th dimension via a
“Neck-A-Cube.”


�� Fact 3: Another property of higher dimensional geometry (Reichenbach, 1957; Rucker, 1977,
1984) is that one can move through solid three-dimensional obstacles without penetrating them
by passing in the direction of the 4th (spatial) dimension. The 4th dimension is perpendicular to all
of our normal three-dimensional space directions, and so our three-dimensional enclosures have
no walls against this direction.


�� Conclusion and Hypothesis: Therefore, the results of the Chinese p-Teleportation experiments
can simply be explained as a human consciousness phenomenon that somehow acts to move or
rotate test specimens through a 4th spatial dimension, so that the specimens are able to penetrate
the solid walls/barriers of their containers without physically breaching them. No real
dematerialization/rematerialization of the specimens takes place. The intensity fluctuations of the
radio micro-transmitter specimen’s electromagnetic signal, and the apparent blending of the other
specimens with the walls of their containers, represent the passage of the specimens through a 4th
spatial dimension. During teleportation the radio signals emitted by the micro-transmitter became
weak/non-existent and fluctuated, because they were spreading out into the 4th dimension and
became undetectable in our three-dimensional space. The weak signals that were (“barely”)
detected represent the leakage of a portion of the radio signal back into our three-dimensional
space from the 4th dimension during teleportation. The observed blending of the other specimens
with the walls of their containers is how the movement/rotation of the specimens through the 4th
dimension was visually interpreted by the mind (along the lines of the Necker cube or Neck-ACube
examples).


Note by me: Although impecable, allow me to disagree with some of the conclusions made by Eric in his report, one being that I understand that the 4th dimension is not 'linked' to the other first three we exist materially speaking.. It is actually attached to the next two as new triad of dimensions as I believe they so behave and coexist in the space time fabric.






Here is the link to the 'Teleportation Physics Study' complete report.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf (http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf)






I urge everyone here to read the complete report, so you will get a strong basis to the p-Telerportation part. Altough it's not my intention to remain here discussing the mathematical and physical aspects of the report, the Rieman Flat, Casimir Effect and the quantum teleportation sections are of relatively easy and essential reading.


DOWSING SIGNAL LINES


At this point, the events and the Report to the Air Force itself should offer a more substantial basis to understand about how signal lines manifest specifically in dowsing and MFD cases.


I think it was Art who recently posted a link text of a very fine intodutory scientific evidence on the signal lines when it mentions standing waves.
A signal line is of simple understanding. Every transmitting and receiving RF apparatus produce a signal line when in tune and phase correlated for instance. You have a signal line estabilished in ARDF when you are fox hunting.
What skeptics still could not understand and accept was that an extremely diminute signal and charges can also produce a magnetic resonance build up to the point of strong standing waves.
The experiments in China proved that the russians were right from the start when they thoroughly researched 'bioenergetics' and 'bioinformation' and the broadcasting of signals derived from vibrational brain cells. What we saw was the notable gift of those children in manipulating waves in the spacetime fabric to broadcast transmissions by a still unkown mechanism allowing those objects to teleport, much like a TV remote control switiching channels.


A RF produced signal line be tracked? Certainly. The given example of fox hunting used in ARDF uses them to find the transmitter.


Can a dowsing style signal line be easily measured and monitored through an ordinary equipment? No.


Could the children's mental emanations be measured and monitored by ordinary equipment? No.


But do we have any doubt that they produced the phenomena by broadcasting wave patterns? No either.


Nevertheless, I believe that in the case of signal lines related to dowsing and MFD LRLs, a hyper sensitive receiver and a fine spectrometer with high order fast fourier transformations might just work..
But heck, who cares about that, if a simple pair of dowsing rods are the perfect tool to demonstrate the magnetic 'amomalies'?


As I final input, it never made any sense the ridicule arguings among skeptics and LRL users in this forum. Be this either caused by envy, unability of using a LRL, ignorance on the scientific principles or personal agendas tied to other interests, I hope I have contributed to start some kind of renovation in the way skeptics treat LRL users and may high level posts and respect start to proliferate.


Regards.

[WM6]

George, thanks for the link. The Remote Viewing Project by the US Military is cited in Eric's report and was another front aimed to study also the events ocured in China.

I have no info about the whereabouts of the videos made at that time. Probably is in China's pocession only or maybe the Military also have them.

:)

Scam projects, successful, if even exist (in reality not only in web promotional ticks) only in the grapple of government funding.

All without real results, especially without scientifically proven results, only simplified free conclusions and foggy hypothesis.

Army is not always a criterion for scientific approach. For example in Iraqi army expensive dowsing rods has been "very successfully" used in counter-terrorism activities.

[Qiaozhi]

What a twisted and convoluted set of ideas! :shocked:

Proof that the events happened exactly as it is presented are fully documented, video taped and were operated under exceptionally well controlled conditions (both blind and double-blind).

So here are the scientific facts and events that happened. Again, all proved, recorded and documented.

So you continually claim ... BUT, then earlier you stated:
I have no info about the whereabouts of the videos made at that time. Probably is in China's pocession only or maybe the Military also have them.
In other words, the so-called proof has conveniently vanished. No doubt it was teleported by a group of Chinese children to an inter-dimensional space somewhere in LRL land.

By the way, this event is claimed to have occurred sometime in 1981. That's 29 years ago. Is this the best you have to offer?

[hung]

As I said, AGAINST FACTS, THERE IS NO REFUTATION.

You do not have the stature to even start to discuss these matters. Maybe only to remain the 'administrator' of this thing here.

Sorry, If I was to answer your BS question above, I would be leveling myself to you.
This I will not do.

[Mike(Mont)]

You know the whole thing about feeling skin currents certainly correlates with some studies with GSR meters. It wouldn't take much to set up a data logger and grid an area by taking a weighted average of the GSR at each step (vs. a snapshot). Sharp responses get more weight. In the end it's still just a tool.

[Qiaozhi]

As I said, AGAINST FACTS, THERE IS NO REFUTATION.
What FACTS are you referring to? There is no evidence to support the claims ... having been conveniently lost.

One DIA report noted that there was an East versus West science debate in the Soviet literature over whether paranormal phenomenon and related experimental data was real or even scientifically sound in comparison to western scientific practice and philosophy.
One thing you have to remember is the existence of the Cold War during the time such experiments were being carried out. Much of the information "leaked out" during this time was purely for propaganda.

The psychotronics topic is controversial within the western scientific community. The debate among scientists and scientific philosophers is highly charged at times, and becomes acrimonious to the point where reputable skeptical scientists cease being impartial by refusing to examine the experimental data or theories, and they prefer to bypass rational discourse by engaging in ad hominem attacks and irrational “armchair” arguments.
We can all be guilty of this, including the believers.

P-Teleportation, if verified, would represent a phenomenon that could offer potential high-payoff military, intelligence and commercial applications.
Note the term "if verified". It is clear that the Teleport document, which is being presented here as confirmation of the existence of teleportation, does not actually acknowledge its existence. It still needs to be verified.

Also, Uri Geller is mentioned several times in the literature, even to the extent that some of his physokinetic trickery is implied as being confirmed. I have nothing against Uri. In fact I find his presentations very interesting and entertaining. So good luck to him. He's made a decent living out of fooling people, and one day when he's much older he may even admit to being a fraud. That would be very amusing, and may even make him some more money.

So why continue testing PK phenomenon?
Read the recommendation section and notice the references to continuous funding. :rolleyes:

[WM6]

As I said, AGAINST FACTS, THERE IS NO REFUTATION.

.

I deeply believe that you are believer, so you do not need to convince me by such tale story.

The only FACT is, that you use metal detector, if you wish to find something. THERE IS NO REFUTATION.

[J_Player]

Ummm... That's real cool stuff about teleportation, and would be real useful about 20 years ago when lots of people were playing Dungeons and Dragons...
But what about the real world right now?
I mean, Mike (Mont) wuz tryin to 'splain sumthin' about dowsing....

Obviously there is much misunderstanding concerning dowsing. Let's face it, the typical beginner is going to stare at the pendulum (or rod) until they are hypnotized then the wishful thinking takes over while all the time the person is swaying around like a drunk and believing the rod is pulling them in a certain direction.

Sounds exagerated but it isn't. You gotta emotionally detach yourself from the search. I mean for most beginners the rod is the elephant in the room and it draws all of the person's attention. It might sound stupid, but you are not searching for the rod. And besides, when you focus all your vision (and attention) on an object you are left side brain dominant. That's something a beginner has to overcome. Probably heard about using a soft focus and for me, I like to direct this to a spot a couple inches past the tip of the rod and direct this thought energy outwards like a search light/beam. This is when I use the "Mind's Eye" thing. I describe it as "Seeing with the subconscious" which is probably a misnomer as everything comes through there first. But if you think of the human body as a transceiver there is a circuit--your energy going out and then you try to feel the effects on the target field. People talk about field pressure, field membrane, etc. that surrounds a target. I have described the process as the search beam (thought energy) is an extension of the rod and I use it sort of like a truckdriver uses a tire iron to thump the tires to check for air pressure only we're dealing with field pressure here. And in case you didn't realize, the field pressure is not going to feel real strong for a beginner. Of course knowing how to use the rod as an extension of yourself is really going to improve your sensitivity. Try rubbing the palms of your hands flat together for 60 seconds. Now slowly move your hands closer together (don't touch together) and try to feel the charge (field pressure)there. It takes time for your hands to wake up and feel the subtle energies. I describe it as a flickering like when a neon light is starting up. I have also heard to hold your opposite hand down a foot lower so you get a bit more voltage to work with.

If you continue to practice, one day things will gel. And once you learn what it feels like then you know what to look for next time.

A bit more on the left brain obstacle. Your vision can input large amounts of info to your brain, up to 80% of sensory data. So this is the main one your need to filter out, thus the soft focus, etc. But even once you have learned to do this, you still need to learn to halt the mental processes which I might refer to as prejudices we all have. Some people really do think they are so special that they don't even need to address this issue.It becomes obvious that Mike is talking about traveling into a another dimension, A dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind; a journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. We can see this is his meaning when we read his words "you gotta emotionally detach yourself from the search", and "This is when I use the 'Mind's Eye' thing. I describe it as 'Seeing with the subconscious'". If you can feel the charge enter your hands and feel the sensation of "the flickering of a neon light", I suppose you have arrived at the threshold of dowsing.

After carefully reading Mike(Mont)'s description of how dowsing works, I recall an experience from years past, when a lady told me she was meditating with her quartz crystal. I remember her sitting on a sofa with the quartz crystal hanging from a chain in a position about 1 meter in front of her eyes. She would stare at this crystal for hours at a time in order to invoke inner healing that was not possible from the medical world, or from contemporary psychiatry. Actually she had several crystals which she would stare at on different occasions, and used for different purposes. But this particular quartz crystal was her favorite for "inner healing".

So what does this have to do with dowsing?
I guess nothing. Except what Mike(Mont) wrote above describes the image I saw exactly: "the typical beginner is going to stare at the pendulum (or rod) until they are hypnotized then the wishful thinking takes over while all the time the person is swaying around like a drunk and believing the rod is pulling them in a certain direction".

This is exactly what I observed this lady doing with the quartz crystal hanging in front of her. It was as if she was in a battle of wits against the crystal, and the crystal, with its nerves of quarts was successful in hypnotizing her into a drunken stupor for hours. As I recall, after several years of practice, this lady never did find the inner recovery that she sought from the healing powers of her crystal. As an observer, I decided that crystals and pendulums would probably not be a productive pastime for me.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Rudy]

It reminds me of ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

[Mike(Mont)]

I don't "go somewhere", just the opposite. I filter out the BS around me so my attention is NOT somewhere else. This might sound easy to do, but it most likely is the most difficult part of learning. People don't even recognize they are talking themself out of it when they think thoughts like "It can't be over there." or "It must be over here." When you start worrying about how far you are from random chance, or if someone is trancing out (I sure don't) well that's just so blatantly idiotic I almost feel sorry for the bunch. Dowsing is finding the truth and it's a whole lot closer to reality than any science book. Some people just cannot comprehend this.

[Qiaozhi]

Dowsing is finding the truth and it's a whole lot closer to reality than any science book. Some people just cannot comprehend this.
:lol: That's so funny.

[J_Player]

...Dowsing is finding the truth and it's a whole lot closer to reality than any science book. Some people just cannot comprehend this.I can comprehend it as an idea. But not as a reality.
If it was reality, then at least one dowser would be able to demonstrate it working in a real test where they have to really find something while other people are watching them find it.

Best wishes,
J_P

[g-sani]

Dowsing for treasure is just a small aplication of what somebody can do whith dowsing.
Somebody that practises dowsing(even for treasure) increases his sencitivity in general and this is beneficial in many aspects of life.
An experienced dowser can tell many things about the target apart from size and depth like what is the target surounded of or like what other metals is there together whith the metal in search.
There are pictures coming in into the dowsers mind as well as colours when on practise.
And may be you will say that it is wishfull thoughts and things like that but sorry they were proved true many times so for me and others this is a fact.
When you can tell about the shape of an object and the way is put in the ground and you dig it up and you see that it is exactly as that <wishfull thinking> :lol: that came up in your mind in the form of a thought then >>> yes the picture you dreamed is reality.
Please don't tell me that it isn't.:nono:
So you skeptics let people live their <fantasies> until you reach yours as well.
But to do that you have to believe you can do it first.
This is the problem whith all you skeptics.
Even Christ said that to his sudents when he saw them amazed whith one of the marvels he did.
"Don't be surprised whith what I have done.This is nothing compared to what you can do but you have to believe it."
So the power is there we just have to believe(want I would say) first and then find the way to use it.
There is no eplainations from scientists for the elephant who can just walk in the desert and if he is thirsty he goes to a spot and digs sand whith his nose.And surprisingly water comes up to drink.Is the elephant a dowser or what?
I would say that he can do that because is an elephant in need of water and for me this is enough.
This is also how human race made great achievements anyway.
But of course world records was never everybody's achievement.But you know very well that in all cases many many others came very close to them as well.
Finally I would say that many if not all can come up whith dowsing successes when it comes to treasure hunting.But they have to learn first and also to put it down in parallel whith practise.
If you don't really want to do it then just let it go but don't judge others because you tried it yourself once or twice.

But then it would be no treasures left if anybody was dowsing.
So, still happy whith so many skeptics around.:cheers:

[WM6]

>>> yes the pictured you dreamed is real.
Please don't tell me that it isn't.:nono:



Dreamed picture was only scan of past living images saved in your memory.

Brain memory scanning mechanism at work during each phase of dreams, nothing else.

Nothing to do with present dreamer reality, but usually triggered by important events and impressions in past.

The same with dowsing: nothing to do with outer physical reality around dowser, but a lot to do with his inner psychical reality.

Dowsers are only awaking dreamers fearing of contact with reality.

So if we talk about real dowser, not about scammer like H3Tec.

[g-sani]

Dreamed picture was only scan of past living images saved in your memory.

Brain memory scanning mechanism at work during each phase of dreams, nothing else.

Nothing to do with present dreamer reality, but usually triggered by important events and impressions in past.

The same with dowsing: nothing to do with outer physical reality around dowser, but a lot to do with his inner psychical reality.

Dowsers are only awaking dreamers fearing of contact with reality.

So if we talk about real dowser, not about scammer like H3Tec.


Sorry WM6 but it is like you are saying to me that whenever I hold a cup of coffee in my hand then it is just in my mind.How can that hold truth when yesterday afternoon I droped some coffee on my trousers? I even put them in the washing machine myself.
Was it also just in my girlfriends mind when she dried them up? :nono:

I have no experience whith H3Tec like whith many other lrls in the market.
I can only assure you that most of them can work in a good dowsers hand.

[WM6]

I can only assure you that most of them can work in a good dowsers hand.



Not only that "most of them work".
I am sure that "all of them work."

But that "all of them work" doesn't mean, that even each of them can find something hidden in soil.
Except if item was hidden by dowser or place where the thing is hidden is otherwise known to dowser.

Easy to prove, bu there is no dowser that would have as much personal courage as this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOsCnX-TKIY

[Qiaozhi]

But then it would be no treasures left if anybody was dowsing.
So, still happy whith so many skeptics around.:cheers:
In fact the skeptics are quite happy for you and other self-acclaimed dowsers to continue with your fantasies for the very reasons you state. Given that dowsing is no better than guessing, it is a safe bet that all the valuable treasures are still to be recovered even after dowers have been allowed to "detect" in the area. The only proviso is that their usual recovery / pinpointing tool (i.e. a real working metal detector) is left at home. :razz:

[Don Jose de La Mancha]

Ladies & Gentlemen: Regarding dowsing, that was included in my experiments for over 10 years. I never intended to write any papers on the paranormal, just prove to mself, so while my experiments may not satisfy a group of highly sceptical observers, they were proof for me and allowed me to move forward to the next level. A dedicated sceptic can always find a loophhole, even if he designs the test himself .

Among them was a case of controled, one way telepathy, which was established through hynotism. Interesting story here for later.

Regarding dowsing, I had my wife hide my wedding ring - I used this for obvious reasons- in ten (10) tries I found it 9 times under controlled conditions. The tenth time was a partial find.

This was enough evidence for me to believe that it did exist and to continue into further study of the human psyche, especially when hypersensitized under hypnosis.

Don Jose de La Mancha

[goldfinder]

Yes, remote viewing and out-growth and many other related things to psychotronics that were verified by the research back in the 60s through the 80s and has moved into actual applied projects by the military and other secret organizations.

Hang in there Hung and Esteban. Thanks for re-printing the information of psychotronic research. I applaud your efforts. And feel sorry for the skeptics who are not to the mental/emotional/spiritual level needed to understand and apply higher laws.

Probably the hardest things to do is use dowsing or radionics to find treasure. Besides the operators person blocks, there are blocks set up on the etheric planes to hide treasures using mental/dowsing and related methods. The Jesuits did this with lots of their treasure. One has to train to overcome these block to be successful in this area.

So ignore the naysayers and persevere. As your sensitivity and control gets better you will succeed. Also, there is no need to try and convince others of your ability. That is just and ego trip and trap. Their beliefs against these psychotronic methods is part of their religion and they are threatened by others who espouse them so they have to actively destroy these types of beliefs and activities and the people associated.

Goldfinder

[Geo]

In fact the skeptics are quite happy for you and other self-acclaimed dowsers to continue with your fantasies for the very reasons you state. Given that dowsing is no better than guessing, it is a safe bet that all the valuable treasures are still to be recovered even after dowers have been allowed to "detect" in the area. The only proviso is that their usual recovery / pinpointing tool (i.e. a real working metal detector) is left at home. :razz:

Hi Qiaozhi.
How it appears that you are irrelevant with the dowsing?
However even if irrelevant you continue him accusing without you try to learn something.
Yes we use metal detectors in order to locate precisely the object when it is small and in small depth.
Many times that the detector does not "have" signal (and our lrl indicate that there is an object), we dig first 20....50 cm and afterwards we try again with the detector. When it "touches" the signal we continue. It is enough difficult in find a currency buried years in the earth if you do not have detector in order to you pass from it each piece of earth.
And i did not see any metal detector to can find any treasure at depth more than one meter (maybe not more than 50cm).

Regards

[Geo]

Not only that "most of them work".
I am sure that "all of them work."

But that "all of them work" doesn't mean, that even each of them can find something hidden in soil.
Except if item was hidden by dowser or place where the thing is hidden is otherwise known to dowser.

Easy to prove, bu there is no dowser that would have as much personal courage as this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOsCnX-TKIY




Hi WM6.
I hope you on Summer (next time) to find the ability to visit my city so i (and maybe g-sani) to give you the occasion to see and to understood the lrl functioning.

Regards

[Mike(Mont)]

Ladies & Gentlemen: Regarding dowsing, that was included in my experiments for over 10 years. I never intended to write any papers on the paranormal, just prove to mself, so while my experiments may not satisfy a group of highly sceptical observers, they were proof for me and allowed me to move forward to the next level. A dedicated sceptic can always find a loophhole, even if he designs the test himself .

Among them was a case of controled, one way telepathy, which was established through hynotism. Interesting story here for later.

Regarding dowsing, I had my wife hide my wedding ring - I used this for obvious reasons- in ten (10) tries I found it 9 times under controlled conditions. The tenth time was a partial find.

This was enough evidence for me to believe that it did exist and to continue into further study of the human psyche, especially when hypersensitized under hypnosis.

Don Jose de La Mancha

DjdKM, I would certainly send out a red warning flag to anyone who gets the idea they can do the bathtub gin thing with hypnosis for dowsing. Personally, I would not even go to a trained, certified professional unless it was life or death situation.

Meditation is something I would highly recommend, but for some reason most people have some kind of prejudice against anything from "Eastern" civilization. They have been the masters for thousands of years. My strong opinion is it should be mandatory in any education and particularly in dowsing. The word "fool" comes to mind when I hear some people's "explanation" why they don't need it.

Edit: In case you misinterpret what I posted, I am speaking from firsthand experience. The very first book I read said to learn meditation. I said,"I don't feel like it." The guy I knew who teaches it here had ripped me off in the highschool years and I wasn't ready to give him $400. BTW, I would also suggest looking into some of the biofeedback monitoring software. That makes it much easier to learn.

[Mike(Mont)]

Well, since I'm preaching about meditation, the goal of reaching Nirvana, most blissful state, the result of filtering all influences, I am inclined to believe this is what has been referred to as "Heaven".

I am using mostly generalizations here. Of course no one can filter out ALL influences nor do you want to if you are dowsing. The major negative influences come from within. Almost no one understands all the ugly mental processes that can pop up from your subconscious and destroy your dowsing unless you "clear" things out that cause you to involuntarily block out a good dowsing response like you'd seen a ghost or something. Some people run and hide because their mommy told them is was evil. Just look at the skeptics. They are as far away from dowsing as it is earthly possible. "Prostitute the intellect to defend the ego." Kind of reminds me of thoses horror movies from the 1960's about people who had a "bad trip". Bummer man...

[Don Jose de La Mancha]

Good morning Mike: An interesting post, however you cannot simply divorce hypnotism from meditation etc, they are of the same family, in fact most forms of meditation are simply self hypnosis.

Have you ever researched 'Sathya Sai Baba'?

Incidentally, radionics have been some of my pet series of successful experiments.

Don Jose de La Mancha

"I exist to Live, not live to exist"

[Qiaozhi]

The word "fool" comes to mind ...
Edit: In case you misinterpret what I posted, I am speaking from firsthand experience.
Couldn't resist it. :lol:
A little "out of context" quoting, with which dowsing believers should be very familiar.

[hung]

Have you ever researched 'Sathya Sai Baba'?


Hello my good and bright friend Don 'Real Deal' Jose.

I'm very pleased that you know the greatest materializer of physical effects living on Earth today.
The man with exceptional mediumship powers a true 'bio quantum being'.

My friend knows him personally and he travels to see him once in a while.
One of his meetings with Sai Baba was amazing.
If you wish, email me and I will tell you.

Good luck in edifying the less instructed ones. Noble mission.
All the best.

[Rudy]

His birth, which his mother Eswaramma asserted was by miraculous conception, was also said to be heralded by miracles. He was said to be capable of materialising objects such as food and sweets out of thin air. He proclaims himself to be the reincarnation of Sai Baba of Shirdi.

His secret? On 8 March 1940, while living with his brother in Uravakonda, Sathya was apparently stung by a scorpion.

http://www.sai-fi.net/sai_baba.jpg
The reincarnation of the great spiritual guru, Sai Baba of Shirdi.

Is he an H3Tec stock holder?

[Mike(Mont)]

I beg to differ with you (closer to violently disagree LOL) on the issue of hypnosis vs. meditation. What I have read does not agree with your analysis. I just don't believe you did your homework on this one.

[Don Jose de La Mancha]

HI MIKE: I certainly expect you and others to disagree with me on many things, as I will with you. As for our 'initial disagrement', just what do you have in mind that conflicts with my post?

As for research, yes, I believe that I have done extensive investigation on both, shall we say some years, starting in Premed in the 50's.

Where do you see the greatest difference?


Don Jose de La Mancha.

"I exist to Live, not live to exist".

[Don Jose de La Mancha]

Good morning Rudy: Frankly, I sincerely doubt that he is interested in physical treasures as such, sooooo..

Don Jose de la Mancha

"I exist to Live, not live to exist">.

[g-sani]

Come on Hung I would like to know as well about that friend
of yours amazing meeting whith Sai Baba.
If it is XXX for the forum then please e-mail as well.:)
Regards
g-sani

[Mike(Mont)]

I can certainly see how some people can (figuratively speaking) squat, grunt, and form a protective shell around themself. I believe some people who work in the electronics field can develop a natural block for electrical fields. It's the "chip on their shoulder".

[Rudy]

I sincerely doubt that he is interested in physical treasures as such, sooooo..


I accept the fact you doubt his interest in physical treasures. As for me, I guess I've seen too many tele evangelists.
He doesn't exactly live in a shanty devoid of material well being.

http://www.saibaba.ws/articles2/sundaram/sundaram-building_01.jpghttp://www.saibaba.ws/articles2/sundaram/sundaram-building_02.jpghttp://www.saibaba.ws/articles2/sundaram/sundaram-building_03.jpg


Nor do I believe that he is the reincarnation of Sai Baba of Shirdi, nor that he will reincarnate as Prema Sai Baba.

However, I do admire what he has done for the poor.

Anyway, I don't see the connection with dowsing or LRLs.

[Don Jose de La Mancha]

HI Rudy: I agree he doesn't live in a shanty, rather reminds me of the POPE, and probably for the same reason.

As for -->Nor do I believe that he is the reincarnation of Sai Baba of Shirdi, nor that he will reincarnate as Prema Sai Baba.
**************
You and I probably will never know.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~
Anyway, I don't see the connection with dowsing or LRLs
**********
It wasn't intended to have one, just a remark to Hung. But I will say that since I became interested in him, he has somehow played an important part in my life, whether I asked for it or not.

There is a long story here which ties in with the discovery of Tayopa. But, because of the mood of the other posters, I wil not go into it. But it was / is fascinating in the many ways he made his presence and help known.

Don Jose de La Mancha
"I exist to Live, not live to exist".

[Rudy]

As for -->Nor do I believe that he is the reincarnation of Sai Baba of Shirdi, nor that he will reincarnate as Prema Sai Baba.
**************
You and I probably will never know.


Sorry but reincarnation runs counter to my strong beliefs in Frisbeetarianism. :nono:

[hung]

Sorry but reincarnation runs counter to my strong beliefs in Frisbeetarianism. :nono:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6yl75kfhqM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1843VxTLjo

There are none so blind as those that will not see.

[J_Player]

Sorry but reincarnation runs counter to my strong beliefs in Frisbeetarianism. :nono:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6yl75kfhqM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1843VxTLjo

There are none so blind as those that will not see.This point of view is debatable, and we are only seeing one side of the debate.
Let's look at the opposing point of view before we decide who is blind....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lczzrSdPZk

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

There are none so blind as those that will not see.
As you have proved to the rest of us many times by your off-topic nonsense postings.

Why do you believe reincarnation has anything to do with dowsing or LRLs? Please elucidate us on the mysteries of your latest theory. I personally cannot wait ... :rolleyes:

[Don Jose de La Mancha]

Ladies & Gentlemen: I have mixed emotions and thoughts on this. Since energy can neither be created nor destroyed according to present science, and since we are composed of pure energy ??????

The basic question would be if so, is in what form?

Don Jose de La Mancha
"I exist to Live, not live to exist".

[udor]

Hi everyone.

I used to think Dowsing was a scam, that is until I gave it a go myself.

I'm an engineer and was out on site once, and one of the supervisors was out finding underground services with dowsing rods. I thought he was a crack pot, until I gave it a go, and it actually worked!

I havent been much interested in it until today out of boredom I'd see what happend with a few tests and manged to scare the hell out of myself.

I figured I'd test If could chose what to look for. Here's the story. First I checked the ground was 'clear' with two bit of coat hanger wire, then put down a piece of metal, thought to myself 'metal', and guess what, the rods closed in when I walked over the metal. Then I said 'dont find metal' and the rods did not close.

Being an engineer I thought 'it's probably my mind causing my muscles to move in when im over the metal'. So to test this I got the wife to randomy place the coin on the gorund and I wore a blind fold. Sure enough I found the coin every time. She even randomy didnt place it on the ground at all, and guess what, when she didnt place it, I didnt find it, no reaction.

Scared the hell outta me, I'm not too keen to try it again. Thanks for listening.

[J_Player]

Hi everyone.

I used to think Dowsing was a scam, that is until I gave it a go myself.

I'm an engineer and was out on site once, and one of the supervisors was out finding underground services with dowsing rods. I thought he was a crack pot, until I gave it a go, and it actually worked!

I havent been much interested in it until today out of boredom I'd see what happend with a few tests and manged to scare the hell out of myself.

I figured I'd test If could chose what to look for. Here's the story. First I checked the ground was 'clear' with two bit of coat hanger wire, then put down a piece of metal, thought to myself 'metal', and guess what, the rods closed in when I walked over the metal. Then I said 'dont find metal' and the rods did not close.

Being an engineer I thought 'it's probably my mind causing my muscles to move in when im over the metal'. So to test this I got the wife to randomy place the coin on the gorund and I wore a blind fold. Sure enough I found the coin every time. She even randomy didnt place it on the ground at all, and guess what, when she didnt place it, I didnt find it, no reaction.

Scared the hell outta me, I'm not too keen to try it again. Thanks for listening.Hi udor,

That sounds interesting.
Are you ready to take Randi's test to win a million dollars now?


Best wishes,
J_P

[Dave J.]

Udor, I've done more or less the same.

That having been said, I would recommend not getting involved in trying to "prove you can dowse". (I'm talking blinded dowsing here, successfully locating objects the location of which you have no prior knowledge). Attempts to "prove that one can dowse" end in failure.

The simplest explanation is that the mindset of trying to prove something is not the mindset of trying to find something, and so under "prove it" conditions whatever dowsing ability you might have, isn't going to be active under those conditions.

There are other more esoteric theories as to why blinded dowsing fails under test conditions, but they're controversial and have no proof. At least the "wrong mindset" theory is a good fit with our understanding of ideomotor response.

--Dave J.

[udor]

I think I was just trying to prove it to myself and to the wife who didnt believe it. Now she does because she had control of the coin, and I always got it right. Having said that, I'm not interested in proving it to anyone else. I don't see myself using or developing the skill as I don't really see a need in the modern world with all the high tech gizomo's we have.

[Dave J.]

I discovered quite by accident in my teens that I had an ability related to dowsing, although I wasn't thinking of it in "dowsing" terms at the time. About 8 years ago I decided to explore dowsing by doing it, reasoning about the results, and reasoning about what other people were saying on the "old" Treasurenet LRL forum. In other words, my interest was in a scientific perspective rather than in dowsing becoming a hobby.

The only kind of dowsing that interests me is blinded dowsing, since unblinded dowsing already has good explanations.

I came to the conclusion that despite the very compelling feeling that the rods are moving themselves, it is in fact the hands that are moving them subconsciously and since it's subconscious, the conscious mind feels only the rod movement hence the sensation that the rods are moving themselves.

About a year ago my daughter mentioned dowsing to a friend, he didn't know what it was, so I offered to demo. I bent a couple of coathangers and volunteered to locate utilities crossing the parking lot while I walked with my eyes shut and he watched for traffic. Going back and forth I got good solid hits at a particular location noted by my daugter's friend. ......When I was done with that, I opened my eyes and I was at 90 degrees to a phone line pedestal. So I said "Aha! Success! .....but not until it has been verified!" (Because no dowse is a good dowse until it's been ground truthed.) The following day I brought an electronic utility line tracer from work and traced the utilities. They didn't cross the parking lot, they went alongside it.

I got good solid consistent hits in both directions, dowsing blind. It was a good demo at the time, since what was visible to the eye seemed to validate it. The puzzle is this: why consistent hits in a blind dowse when there was nothing there, the utilities ran elsewhere?

My "controversial unprovable theory" is that "someone up there" was jerking me around. It ain't much of a theory but it's better than nothing and it has no need to rely on pseudoscience.

--Dave J.

[udor]

I'd say there was something there. You don't get blindfolded solid hits for nothing.

[Dave J.]

In any other area of life, if I obviously screw up, then it's a screwup. I apply this same standard to dowsing. I traced the utilities with a Fisher TW-6, the industry standard 2-box unit of which I was the design engineer. Furthermore, I determined that some distance from where I'd got the hits, utilities did cross the parking lot, and there was physical evidence of that area having been trenched (plus it jogged my memory of the trenching job which was for the purpose of installing those utilities). I had gotten no dowsing response there.

Where I got the solid dowse, there was in fact "something there"-- a good laugh. At my expense.

Eight years ago I invented a new kind of dowsing-- "dowsing without alabis". Nobody on Tnet liked the idea but me. Other dowsers when they get skunked don't want to admit that maybe they're not all that good at it, so they create alabis. Of course when you have an alabi that redefines every failure as a success, all possibility of learning is extinguished.

--Dave J.

[udor]

Oh well ;-).

I'm pretty sure dowsing works. But as I said before, what's the use of it? :lol:

[Dave J.]

I suppose the most productive use of dowsing is in locating utilities. The guys who do it are not the likes of Hung and Art who are ideologue braggarts praising LRL's, they're typically guys using coathangers who only do it because it seems to work for them. And their locates typically get ground truthed, unlike most LRL supposed locates.

This doesn't mean they're ready to throw away the more respectable tools of the trade. Nobody paints a locate mark based on a dowse, you have to verify it using conventional methods. A dowse is usually either a clue how to begin a technical locate that you were having trouble with, or for your own work that someone else isn't going to have to rely on.

Dowsing is on the decline in the utility locating business because it is becoming more of a professional service that is contracted and which is accompanied by potential liability.

If you read my "Art's bedtime story" post, it provides an explanation why people using coathangers sometimes seem to get good results whereas the LRL guys have nothing to show for their efforts but a bunch of bragging about what they could do if Amazing Randi would stop requiring a double-blind test protocol.

--Dave J.

[g-sani]

...........................

The simplest explanation is that the mindset of trying to prove something is not the mindset of trying to find something, and so under "prove it" conditions whatever dowsing ability you might have, isn't going to be active under those conditions.
.............................

--Dave J.

:thumb: :cheers: words that hold gold!

Mind you that there are people that can do it always and they don't really care doing it even infront of many others.
Simply they have reached much higher levels as dowsers but it is more likely that you will not come across one since they don't like talking about that whith others.
You see probably this is because they belong to some other category now and they prefer talking about dowsing whith people close to their level.The best experience I had once was when I saw one of them in action talking about the shape of a silver target when he dowsed it from 300meters away.Up to that time I thought you must step on a target before you can do such an evaluation but I was wrong.There are people arround that they can tell a thing like that from a distance but it is only a few.
Of course they were amateurs themselves once and I know they were discussing their progress or dowsing more openly at that time.
Well thats how it goes we like it or not, and when I asked why he is so mystique now one he replied that after some time you get bored of saying the same things all over again so you stop doing it in order to keep getting better yourself.
Regards
g-sani

[Don Jose de La Mancha]

good morning Rudy, You posted --> Sorry but reincarnation runs counter to my strong beliefs in Frisbeetarianism. :nono:
__________________

I have recently read that that is a belief that after death the soul gets stuck on the roof??
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UDOR my friend: You posted -->I'm pretty sure dowsing works. But as I said before, what's the use of it? :lol:
**************
If you can program yourself to find that coin, you can also program yourself to find 'anything'. For help in concentrating, without realizing why, many resort to a "witness".

Don Jose de La Mancha

"I exist to Live, not live to exist".

[Carl-NC]

I'd say there was something there. You don't get blindfolded solid hits for nothing.

Not only is it possible, dowsers get 'em all the time.

[Rudy]

good morning Rudy, You posted --> Sorry but reincarnation runs counter to my strong beliefs in Frisbeetarianism. :nono:
__________________

I have recently read that that is a belief that after death the soul gets stuck on the roof??
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Fundamentally.