Detector #2

[Funfinder]

Yeah, finally the next working detector. :D

Constructing or inventing stuff really is hard work for the brain:

How should it build best, where do I get the parts, best arrangement so further
improvements or upgrades are possible, what is the real goal etc. etc.


However - the new prototype is working:

- very good transportable
- uses human bionic energy
- detects neon-tube from 10m
- fading out ultrabright LED light
- very directional target localization
- signal output even if energy just low
- made out of noble wooden box & handle
- enough free space left for additional features

[WM6]

Yeah, finally the next working detector. :D



Nice, but very obsolete technology.

[Qiaozhi]

Yeah, finally the next working detector. :D

Constructing or inventing stuff really is hard work for the brain:

How should it build best, where do I get the parts, best arrangement so further
improvements or upgrades are possible, what is the real goal etc. etc.


However - the new prototype is working:

- very good transportable
- uses human bionic energy
- detects neon-tube from 10m
- fading out ultrabright LED light
- very directional target localization
- signal output even if energy just low
- made out of noble wooden box & handle
- enough free space left for additional features
Cool :cool: !!
Can we see inside?

[detectoman]

dear funfinder i appreciate evervary other details, ?
may be contain an pistol?

[Funfinder]

it even detects if you lift your feet from ANY ground! :D

[detectoman]

wowwwwwwww funfinder your extrange perseverance obtain fruit, may congratulations brodhy :):0:(:):)

[detectoman]

funfilder keep these away of cloners chinesse and suspicious geotech builders, may be the sceptics any day be convinced on lrl succes
too you keep far of listens

[Funfinder]

Guess I have to answer my question on my own...

btw. here are some interresting MD test results:

http://metalldetektortest.eu/pageID_9307646.html

[Funfinder]

Cool :cool: !!
Can we see inside?

I think soon - work still in progress...

[Funfinder]

wowwwwwwww funfinder your extrange perseverance obtain fruit, may congratulations brodhy :):0:(:):)

funfilder keep these away of cloners chinesse and suspicious geotech builders, may be the sceptics any day be convinced on lrl succes
too you keep far of listens


thx mate! :) :) :)

but I'm not shure in making a big secret out of it...

if I get overrolled by a truck today :lol: :D (btw. gibon if you read here too: be careful not get slain by a coconut if you dig at those trees... - each year die dozens of people by falling down coconuts...) my inventions perhaps would be lost...

But for shure I want something in return - at least information what MDs are really the best nowadays in finding deep small stuff, because for deep large objects I have already the Jeohunter. :D Perhaps I'll get myself the new Blisstool LTC64 - because I love Bulgaria and the price is fantastic! :D

[Funfinder]

circuit one - build and tested................... OK
circuit two - build and tested................... OK
housing with handle ready....................... OK
joining circuit one plus two...................... OK
antenna one and two... build and tested... OK
"connecting" antenna one and two........... OK
final sensitivity checks............................ OK
Q.C. passed........................................... OK

elapsed time... over 30h
takin' & posting pictures of device... soon :D

[bama]

Hey funfinder, thank God someone is trying to build a LRL instead of
finding fault and fussing. You're the man go for it! bama:)

[Funfinder]

Yeah! Another successful work is finished! :D

This detector uses a very silent "threshold" noise and moving electrostatic loads in front of create different squeaking effects.

Near the handle is the ground-contact for touching with a finger for even better gain.

I'm already curious about the field-test! :D


Phew! This was a nice piece of work and now the exciting part is beginning! :)

[J_Player]

Yeah! Another successful work is finished! :D

This detector uses a very silent "threshold" noise and moving electrostatic loads in front of create different squeaking effects.

Near the handle is the ground-contact for touching with a finger for even better gain.

I'm already curious about the field-test! :D


Phew! This was a nice piece of work and now the exciting part is beginning! :)Quite cool. :thumb:

The scotch tape is effective for concealing the wire connections to prevent reverse engineering.
Will the production model be built on a standard PCB or SMT?

Best wishes,
J_P

[goldfinder]

So, do we get to see the schematic.

AND the test results ??

Goldfinder

PS - Great to see someone doing something besides critisizing, and condeming what some else's ideas. Real progress we all hope for!:)

[Fred]

Great job.I like its simplicity.
Even if it doesn´t work, you may eventually find something with it.
An it may help to say that it could work better with a microcontroller, even if you don´t know why.
Please keep us informed with the results.

[Funfinder]

Quite cool. :thumb:

The scotch tape is effective for concealing the wire connections to prevent reverse engineering.
Will the production model be built on a standard PCB or SMT?

Best wishes,
J_P

Thx J_P :) , it's a quite cool design - I'm always happy if in the end I created something I'm liking, too - because when I start often I have no idea how and with which parts I should begin... :lol:

The tape only is for isolation and stability and not to prevent reverse engineering.

And I have to hurry creating the final schematic out of my mind otherwise the tape will prevent me of this... :D

I guess standard pcb... smt could burn through... :cool:

[Funfinder]

Great job.I like its simplicity.
Even if it doesn´t work, you may eventually find something with it.
An it may help to say that it could work better with a microcontroller, even if you don´t know why.
Please keep us informed with the results.

It's really absolutly not that simple as it may look and:
it works already with microcontrollers! :cool:

[Funfinder]

So, do we get to see the schematic.

AND the test results ??

Goldfinder

PS - Great to see someone doing something besides critisizing, and condeming what some else's ideas. Real progress we all hope for!:)

Perhaps it depends on the "real" test results if I publish the schematic.

And maybe also if someone really knowledged is willing to analyze what the circuit does...
Because I'm not completly shure about this - seems it uses some kind of resonance circuit that only establishes under special circumstances - resulting in this very sensitive threshold noise. That shortcuted emitter-basis connection of T1 (see above) also is very important.

Goldfinder, you're right, crizisizing is funny and easy, building such stuff alot serious work and "headache" if there occure unexpected problems - and those will...

Now I understand much better why some metal detectors are a bit more expensive as flat screen LCDs etc. Developing such stuff devours a huge amount of time, work and nerves... :|

[J_Player]

Thx J_P :) , it's a quite cool design - I'm always happy if in the end I created something I'm liking, too - because when I start often I have no idea how and with which parts I should begin... :lol:

The tape only is for isolation and stability and not to prevent reverse engineering.

And I have to hurry creating the final schematic out of my mind otherwise the tape will prevent me of this... :D

I guess standard pcb... smt could burn through... :cool:From reading your earlier posts, I figured you would take measures to keep some parts of the circuit low noise and free from interference. I can see you have two separate sections of circuitry which appear to be isolated in separate tape bundles, and there is no circuit board. The point-to-point direct soldering helps to keep the lead lengths short which may be necessary for certain components.

This made me think you used this kind of construction intentionally to minimize the conductor lengths, while saving time with circuit boards. I figured if you wanted to maintain the same short lead length on a production model, you would choose SMT. But these are harder to work with when hand-built, so a well-designed circuit board may work better.

Actually this prototype construction method is not a bad idea. The last LRL construction I was involved with was wired with the same method. Too bad the circuit designer was banned from the forum before I finished the LRL. It was said to be good for detecting TVs from the couch, and static fields from a large distance.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Funfinder]

> And I have to hurry creating the final schematic out of my mind otherwise the tape will prevent me of this... :D

Well, I was lucky! *knock on wood* :D

[Fred]

And maybe also if someone really knowledged is willing to analyze what the circuit does...
Choosing someone knowledged has never been a good idea for those kind of circuits.
People with no knowledge will give you more interesting answers about the principle, if you need names i may be of help.

[J_Player]

Choosing someone knowledged has never been a good idea for those kind of circuits.
People with no knowledge will give you more interesting answers about the principle, if you need names i may be of help.I agree.
mikebg is probably among the best forum experimenters I can think of who is knowledgeable of how to design and optimize circuits for metal detecting.
But I doubt he would be able to analyze what this circuit does or is intended to do other than to amplify something between a large metal plate, a coil and a finger on an emitter lead.

Maybe a good starting point is to define exactly what kind of kind of field signal you want the circuit to detect or demodulate before enlisting help to analyze it.
Or if that can't be done, then I think Fred has a good solution.

Best wishes,
J_P

[detectoman]

funfinder, whit these strange project, stuff of extremely poor man in time of crisis, i remember the rudimentary laboratory of dr frankenstein
btw may brhy, the important is what these has function, you keep then far of evrentis-artemis ltd eyes, or soon you look you project in internet sales by pay pal
you keep then top secret how today
may congratulations, soon we seeing you tries videos?

[detectoman]

may be same built tegnologie how funfinder designs jaajii
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIsNHMpEBYQ&feature=related

[Qiaozhi]

may be same built tegnologie how funfinder designs jaajii
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIsNHMpEBYQ&feature=related
I bet the major detector manufacturers are shaking in their boots. :lol:

[J_Player]

may be same built tegnologie how funfinder designs jaajii
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIsNHMpEBYQ&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIsNHMpEBYQ&feature=related)

Hi Dman,
The video shows your detector really finds the metal.
Do you want to sell it?

¿Hola Dman, yo vi su detector de metales en el video.
¡Este detector discierne realmente metal! :super:
¿Quiere vender este detector?

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[detectoman]

jajaja these detector isn of me, i show in example of rudimentary dm what semms how last genial design of me cousin funfinder

[detectoman]

how yours can see, these extrange cacharro, trashdesign has incredible extremely powerfull tx oscilador, but sound earing how reversed, to nearby contact difume disvanish this, may be need change any reversed transistor, or reversed ic, hehehe, btw these have an piece of enginering whit major tx oscilador versus scaner minelab, the design is an piece of art surrealist, how piccaso pictures or extremely poor man dream elucubration, be posible exibit these in outdoors?, remember this may first projects

[Funfinder]

http://www.multiupload.com/H3AG7T6OWP

Yesterday finally the weather was fine so I could shoot the video. The plasticbag was hung on a bush after I rubbed it to my hair.

Detection distance is around 1m. :D

The unit received alot strange signals I couldn't always find out from where they came from. 300m away is a fastway and also a railroad.

But as you can hear in the second clip it also detects a helicopter. On the video it is perhaps just 400m distance, but I could hear it already much earlier - perhaps even 1-2km - directly and with the detector!

It sounds crazy, but it seems I received even some noises from a plane 3km above. :shocked:

There also was nearby a very large iron object from an ex powerline-pylon fundament. I digged down 80cm a half year ago but left this solid with concrete connected stuff buried there. However, it couldn't detected.

And it made a huge difference how high I did hold the detector. 2m above the ground with reached arm the signals were "bombastic", while the border of detection are around 20-30cm above the ground.

It also made a big difference, if there were trees near or not (more near as 10meters).


Perhaps I'll publish the circuit for improvements because for now it seems not being capable detecting lta objects. But maybe there weren't just any near and iron does not working?


Actually circuit two should only became a very sensitive amp for the ferrite coil, but this still is not done yet.

I had no "concept" how those ferrites should distant detect metal so I focused on the sensitive receiver.

Well, I know how it would work, by very critical adjusted and powerful bfo - but I like to build some extra circuit for this. I guess at the moment the "pure" electrostatic detection still has to be modified.

Or the second possiblity: a long wave transmitting coil and a sensitive receiver where you can hear the frequency or modulation shift if some metal is near!!

It works already with the 100kHz wire-searcher transmitter circuit and some radio receiver but instead of the little ferrite antenna the transmitter should use a large coil. I have two of them, 1 works on 100kHz and the second with 150kHz - and the audible difference in FM reception seems better as AM.


I don't know if the mineoro detects plastic bags (I guess not!) but if there really is electrostatic involved at least it has to be even more sensitive - not only switching on or off style, but more slowly visible power or noise.

However, enjoy these absolutly authentic videos! :)


@ detectoman
the youtube md is IB design - it's called the "matchless detector" and completly different than mine. And the noise this homebrew makes is terrible! :D

[J_Player]

http://www.multiupload.com/H3AG7T6OWP

Yesterday finally the weather was fine so I could shoot the video. The plasticbag was hung on a bush after I rubbed it to my hair.

Detection distance is around 1m. :D

The unit received alot strange signals I couldn't always find out from where they came from. 300m away is a fastway and also a railroad.

But as you can hear in the second clip it also detects a helicopter. On the video it is perhaps just 400m distance, but I could hear it already much earlier - perhaps even 1-2km - directly and with the detector!

It sounds crazy, but it seems I received even some noises from a plane 3km above. :shocked:

There also was nearby a very large iron object from an ex powerline-pylon fundament. I digged down 80cm a half year ago but left this solid with concrete connected stuff buried there. However, it couldn't detected.

And it made a huge difference how high I did hold the detector. 2m above the ground with reached arm the signals were "bombastic", while the border of detection are around 20-30cm above the ground.

It also made a big difference, if there were trees near or not (more near as 10meters).


Perhaps I'll publish the circuit for improvements because for now it seems not being capable detecting lta objects. But maybe there weren't just any near and iron does not working?


Actually circuit two should only became a very sensitive amp for the ferrite coil, but this still is not done yet.

I had no "concept" how those ferrites should distant detect metal so I focused on the sensitive receiver.

Well, I know how it would work, by very critical adjusted and powerful bfo - but I like to build some extra circuit for this. I guess at the moment the "pure" electrostatic detection still has to be modified.

Or the second possiblity: a long wave transmitting coil and a sensitive receiver where you can hear the frequency or modulation shift if some metal is near!!

It works already with the 100kHz wire-searcher transmitter circuit and some radio receiver but instead of the little ferrite antenna the transmitter should use a large coil. I have two of them, 1 works on 100kHz and the second with 150kHz - and the audible difference in FM reception seems better as AM.


I don't know if the mineoro detects plastic bags (I guess not!) but if there really is electrostatic involved at least it has to be even more sensitive - not only switching on or off style, but more slowly visible power or noise.

However, enjoy these absolutly authentic videos! :)


@ detectoman
the youtube md is IB design - it's called the "matchless detector" and completly different than mine. And the noise this homebrew makes is terrible! :DCool videos :thumb:

The video of detecting the plastic bag appears to show you have detected a bag at a greater distance than most metal detector could detect a foil bag of the same size. I suppose maybe a 2-box metal detector could find the same distance or better, but few standard coil detectors can compete with that distance. Of course, the next step is to get your detector to detect a buried treasure from the same distance.

The other video with the helicopter is a bit confusing. We did not see the detector pointing toward the helicopter to show the directional properties, but we could hear some beeping that seemed to follow the acoustic sounds coming from the helicopter. Since we did not see where the detector was pointed, I am thinking it was probably in a stationary position resting on the ground, or on a table. And if it was detecting the helicopter from a distance of more than 1 Km, I am thinking it was probably not detecting the static field charge of the helicopter. So what did it detect?
Maybe stray RF in the air that had its reception interrupted by the spinning blades of the helicopter?
Maybe the internal circuit is sensitive to vibration, and the sounds are rattling the wires inside to cause beeping?
I have no clue.
Maybe time to connect the circuit to a scope and meters to see what it is actually detecting when targets are brought in proximity...

Best wishes,
J_P

[Funfinder]

Well, I know how it would work, by very critical adjusted and powerful bfo - but I like to build some extra circuit for this. I guess at the moment the "pure" electrostatic detection still has to be modified. :D

This is cool - look what I've found by pure coincidence:


(...)
Currently I'm about to rediscover and and redesign most sensitive BFO metal detector. Many believe that this primitive principle can not be upgraded more, but soon will be pleasantly surprised. Our Noise Induction Metal Detector is so sensitive and so discriminative that beats most complicated VLF metal detectors.
(...)


It's from mikebg -> Tech Forum -> "Beyond" TGSL
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=115901&postcount=3


I guess with very sensitive BFO that can distinguish the change of 1 or even 1/4 Hertz we have the best chance for "everytime usable LRL".



@ J_P
thx for your interrest and I will tell you some details:

I guess the size of the plastic-bag doesn't matters alot, it's the charge status. This was just a simple demo, because i rubbed it (for about 3-5 seconds) to my own hair. Assuming my body and head was already negative loaded from the ground the bag got positive charge.

But this bag discharges every time when the detector comes near by invisible ions through the air and also very slowly directly over the wooden bush that is connected directly to the ground.

the same way some sensitivity was lost while I moved the digicam closer to the detector, but not much.

btw. I missed taking my second electrostatic detector incl. 20 cm round plate with me so I could have checked the difference.


about the heli:

This was a very spontanous filming - but I did hold with my left hand the detector with plate in front into it's direction while searching where the helicopter is with the right hand and my eyes on the digicams display.

btw. I could encode the clips with divx4 fast motion so they just had around 10MB but I decided for better quality encoding 'em with xvid codec (66 meg).


AND - I forgot this to mention the last time:
I tested if it would receive the signals of the switched on coil of the Garrett Ace 250 but - absolutly nothing!

I also didn't hear the slightest AM radio broadcasting stuff.

btw. I could make the "shortcut a battery test". I don't remember exactly but some of the guys here got 1 or 3 meter "spark signals" with an 1.5v battery.

I guess those have been the motors ignition-sparks the detector received (similar like thunderstorm flashlights) because those create a strong EM pulse within a very large frequency spectrum, startin already at Very Low Frequency. You also can hear such stuff with AM radio.

Perhaps the helicopters engine iron block also works like some electrostatic antenna and radiates them to the outside.


btw. I guess the pure electrostatic load of metal - especially if buried in wet soil - is far to low for detection outside of the ground! At least with this actual circuit.

Maybe the Mineoro is sensitive enough but we don't know for shure what (if...) it really detects. For shure it doesn't detect the electrostatic load between earth and ionosphere where the metal object could act like a shield, reflector or irritator because otherwise it wouldn't detect it from a large distance. And the north-south directivity seems to has something to do with the distorted flow of the earths magnetic field.

The early units did use magnetic ferrite antennas - so this would match. Perhaps I better invent some magnetic field detector...

edit:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=116224&postcount=89
ANDREAS @ "Alonso PD modification" wrote:
"A car run (out city) can detect up 200meters distance."

This seems to be the same like with my helicopter detection - of course because of it's extra position - even more distance.

[WM6]

This seems to be the same like with my helicopter detection - of course because of it's extra position - even more distance.



I can detect helicopter, plane or even satelite at kilometers without pistol detector or other LRL.

Go back in real world!

[Funfinder]

WM6, because of your completly ignorance and short view you just don't get the point:

This is experimenting for making experience and the success takes some time.


btw. after your completly crazy statements against Jeohunter and other serious topics NO ONE ever will take your statements for serious! With this stuff you totally destroyed / ruined your credibility concerning real scientific or electronical knowledge! You digged your own grave with your stupid comments and you get what you deserve (and perhaps want...) - laughs only! :lol: :lol: :lol:


What remains from you is a laughing number - and that fit's perfectly to your ridicolous going on and on comments and daft postings here! :angry: :angry::barf:

Why you just don't simply let it be if you haven't nothing worthfully to say, anyway??? Do you have some deficite in attention, are you bored?

Or do you think you are the brave knight that has to fight and protect others against the evil LRL-maffia???

Too bad no one takes you serious any longer after all your completly foolish actions... - and interacting with you is just a pure waste of time! :angry: :angry: :angry:

[WM6]

btw. after your completly crazy statements against Jeohunter and other serious topics NO ONE ever will take your statements for serious!

:angry: :angry: :angry:

Mine statements? I only summarize your own negative test statements about Jeohunter heavy weights-box. Results: unusable for serious TH.

[J_Player]

This is cool - look what I've found by pure coincidence:



It's from mikebg -> Tech Forum -> "Beyond" TGSL
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=115901&postcount=3


I guess with very sensitive BFO that can distinguish the change of 1 or even 1/4 Hertz we have the best chance for "everytime usable LRL".



@ J_P
thx for your interrest and I will tell you some details:

I guess the size of the plastic-bag doesn't matters alot, it's the charge status. This was just a simple demo, because i rubbed it (for about 3-5 seconds) to my own hair. Assuming my body and head was already negative loaded from the ground the bag got positive charge.

But this bag discharges every time when the detector comes near by invisible ions through the air and also very slowly directly over the wooden bush that is connected directly to the ground.

the same way some sensitivity was lost while I moved the digicam closer to the detector, but not much.

btw. I missed taking my second electrostatic detector incl. 20 cm round plate with me so I could have checked the difference.


about the heli:

This was a very spontanous filming - but I did hold with my left hand the detector with plate in front into it's direction while searching where the helicopter is with the right hand and my eyes on the digicams display.

btw. I could encode the clips with divx4 fast motion so they just had around 10MB but I decided for better quality encoding 'em with xvid codec (66 meg).


AND - I forgot this to mention the last time:
I tested if it would receive the signals of the switched on coil of the Garrett Ace 250 but - absolutly nothing!

I also didn't hear the slightest AM radio broadcasting stuff.

btw. I could make the "shortcut a battery test". I don't remember exactly but some of the guys here got 1 or 3 meter "spark signals" with an 1.5v battery.

I guess those have been the motors ignition-sparks the detector received (similar like thunderstorm flashlights) because those create a strong EM pulse within a very large frequency spectrum, startin already at Very Low Frequency. You also can hear such stuff with AM radio.

Perhaps the helicopters engine iron block also works like some electrostatic antenna and radiates them to the outside.


btw. I guess the pure electrostatic load of metal - especially if buried in wet soil - is far to low for detection outside of the ground! At least with this actual circuit.

Maybe the Mineoro is sensitive enough but we don't know for shure what (if...) it really detects. For shure it doesn't detect the electrostatic load between earth and ionosphere where the metal object could act like a shield, reflector or irritator because otherwise it wouldn't detect it from a large distance. And the north-south directivity seems to has something to do with the distorted flow of the earths magnetic field.

The early units did use magnetic ferrite antennas - so this would match. Perhaps I better invent some magnetic field detector...

edit:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=116224&postcount=89
ANDREAS @ "Alonso PD modification" wrote:
"A car run (out city) can detect up 200meters distance."

This seems to be the same like with my helicopter detection - of course because of it's extra position - even more distance.Hi Funfinder,
You cover a lot of details. I will address them each separately:

1. If you read enough of the posts made by mikebg, you will see he is not simply another EE who is experimenting with circuits. He is brilliant for analyzing the performance of different circuit configurations, and is knowledgeable of many obscure details of electronics theory and components that can have many EEs baffled. From what I see, he is fully competent to design and teach how to design and optimize circuitry for best performance, whether simple circuits or precision circuits in noisy environments. If you can define what exact kind of signal you are trying to detect and demodulate, maybe he can help.

2. This may seem silly, but who knows?
I read many posts by Mike(Mont) and hung which indicate that your mental state (radiasthesia) is important when detecting long range. Mike(Mont) has often written about the importance of meditation to arrive at the proper mental state in order to get good results for long range detection. Since you rubbed the plastic bag in your hair, is it possible your mental state is somehow influencing the detection distance of this plastic bag? Sure it sounds silly, but think about it. If your brain is producing theta waves, these are a different frequency than alpha waves or gamma brain waves which may be emitted after meditating. You are presuming your detector is only sensing the static charge of the bag. But is it possible that brain frequencies are causing variations in the charge that is transfered from hair to plastic? Is your circuit responding to more than simple static charges? If only we knew exactly what your circuit is responding to, we would better know what it is detecting. Silly as it may seem, there exists some remote possibility that Mike(Mont) could be right.

3. Since you could not detect the Garret metal detector coil, but we heard beeps when the helicopter flew by, we can speculate about the reason by using some known circuit features in the Garret detector. The Garret Ace 250 sends a 6.5 KHz magnetic signal out through a faraday shield. We can expect mostly a magnetic field at low VLF frequency. Apparently your detector is not responsive to 6.5 KHz magnetic fields. But we hear the beeps when the helicopter flies by which are beeping at the same times we hear acoustic sounds from the helicopter blades. This makes me think that maybe your circuit is responsive to higher RF frequencies, maybe LF, MF... up to GHZ that is used for mobile phones. If your circuit detects these frequencies of RF in the air, then it is possible the helicopter blades are interrupting a strong RF signal that your circuit has detected, and the fast interruptions from the rotating blades are causing your circut to make a series of fast beeps. I also considered that maybe your circuit does not detect RF. If this is the case, then maybe your circuit responds to slight mechanical vibrations. When we look at the construction method, we see the components are soldered point-to-point, and secured by tape. And we know there is at least one component that is very sensitive to the slightest variations in signal. We know that if the conductors are permitted to move slightly, the capacitance between conductors can change slightly, and perhaps could cause a change in the signal which is being amplified. We also see the coil is glued to a large metal sheet, which could act as a vibrating plate in the presence of an acoustic vibration in the air. If it also transfers this vibration to the coil, we may see some vibrating acoustic signal transfered to the circuitry. This may be especially noticeable if the acoustic vibration is resonant with a harmonic of the natural vibration frequencies found in the plate/coil assembly. Who knows? Maybe the whole box is vibrating from the helicopter sound, and causing the wires to rattle inside and cause capacitive beeps?

4. Looking at all the unknowns in your apparatus, I consider this circuit impossible to analyze. I think the best we can do is to speculate about unknown parameters. But it still is an interesting project.
I must admit, this is the first long range aircraft detector I have seen that does not use radar, lasers, or optical methods to detect the aircraft. :thumb:

Best wishes,
J_P

[rrezi]

ned help with jeohunter, please mail mc_laren_slr@hotmail.com:shocked:

[Funfinder]

Mine statements? I only summarize your own negative test statements about Jeohunter heavy weights-box. Results: unusable for serious TH.

cheap excuse for condemning a very good md! :nono:


weight and size have only 5-15% importance but even this has to be incalculated if someone wants deep search.
besides: compare this with other deep mds...

explained for little children:
more depth needs more power, size and weight.
use a pinpointer if you wanna find close stuff.

it depends how much you like metal detectors (also technically seen), how enthusiastic and passionated you love treasure hunting and how much energy you invest into it - included: Muscle power while searching and: digging!

and not just sitting at home, playing theoretically with circuits and coils and making "smart" comments! :frown: :nono: :angry:

the Jeohunter is easily transportable with bike and it's backpack-suitcase and if someone doesn't climb a mountain the 2.4kg holder inclusive 36x44cm standard coil is "light" enough for a search that can take a long time, especially if you have to dig alot. this of course depends on what someone likes to find or better what he wants to dig after analyzing information / iron on or off modus, signalized depth, size of the targets location etc.


bringing up the weight as last "pseudo-argument" after
all others have been refuted is absolutly cheeeaaaaapp!

[WM6]

explained for little children:
more depth needs more power, size and weight.
use a pinpointer if you wanna find close stuff.



More depth? Every old fashioned PI can go deeper than this JeoToy.

Weight are only one of Contras, there are many others too (read debate in Jeohunter thread).

This trashy Nintendo are completly unusable for serious TH.

[Funfinder]

may be a bit off but if i recall my past - somehow i'm always coming back to: "antenna finetuning"!

radio antennas incl. connectors on roof with and without amplifier, tuning coils fineadjustment inside radios, satellite dishes (since yesterday 8 different ones), selfbuild wifi & gps antennas plus for electrostatic receivers and last but not least: metal detector magnetic coil finetuning...

a "job" that needs a lot patience and keeping in mind all gain influencing parameter buts can improve the performance enormous, as we see with the very finetuned Alonso PDs.

perhaps therefore later I'm priviledged for a special detector that only works extremly finetuned... diving deep into the microcosmos of "hyper minimal difference - arts"... :D

[J_Player]

may be a bit off but if i recall my past - somehow i'm always coming back to: "antenna finetuning"!

radio antennas incl. connectors on roof with and without amplifier, tuning coils fineadjustment inside radios, satellite dishes (since yesterday 8 different ones), selfbuild wifi & gps antennas plus for electrostatic receivers and last but not least: metal detector magnetic coil finetuning...

a "job" that needs a lot patience and keeping in mind all gain influencing parameter buts can improve the performance enormous, as we see with the very finetuned Alonso PDs.

perhaps therefore later I'm priviledged for a special detector that only works extremly finetuned... diving deep into the microcosmos of "hyper minimal difference - arts"... :DIf you recall, the Alonso PD is said to be a metal detector circuit. Both Qiaozhi and hung say it is a simple metal detector that was modified with an added ferrite circuit and other circuit modifications. According to hung, the ferrite was added to make it ignore all metals except gold. This would seem to indicate it is detecting eddy currents that it generates in buried metal, and with the help of a fine tuned ferrite receiver, it filters out the reception of all rx signals except signals from gold (there are also reports it can detect other noises like sparks, or common metals when close range). We have others who say it is more, and can detect gold at larger distances than a metal detector.

The Alonso PD serves to point out a basic differences between your "extremely finetuned" detector and his design. There are differences in both the design approach, and in the functioning of the PD when compared to the detector you are experimenting with.

Comparing the differences in design approach:
Alonso began with a commercially available metal detector kit which he modified and added circuitry to improve the performance for specialized treasure hunting. He modified it to find only gold. He knew what the basic circuit was detecting, and focused his work on optimizing his circuit enhancements to reject other metals that are not gold.

With your detector, you also began with a commercially available electronic MP3 amplifier and speaker set. Without major modifications to the audio amplifier, you wired its input to a high gain amplifier connected to a coil, a metal plate, and to a finger without knowing what it would detect until you turned it on and found some evidence of responding to static charges. It is also pertinent to note the high gain amplifier is soldered point-to-point without a circuit board, so the conductors can move slightly when the detector is moved. There is also a wooden "sound box" enhancement to help the high gain conductors move from acoustic vibrations. We can expect things attached to the wooden box (loose circuit parts and wires, for example) to vibrate when acoustic sounds in the air and other movements cause the box to vibrate, much as the wooden surfaces of a guitar move and vibrate from the movement of the guitar wires or other from sounds in the air. I suppose any mechanical vibration, impact, or sound in the air will cause the wooden box to vibrate.

Comparing the differences in performance:
The difference between the performance of the Alonso detector and the Funfinder detector is the Alonso detector responds to metal, whether buried or in the air. The exact distance has not been definitely established, but a video shows it beeping at about 2 meters distance on one occasion.

The video of the funfinder detector detector shows it responds to a plastic bag that was rubbed in hair from 1 meter distance (it looked to be closer to 2 meters distance in the video). Another video shows this detector also responds to a helicopter flying in the air at 400 meters, while it was reported this detector detected the helicopter from 1-2 Km distance before the video was turned on. It is also reported this detector does not respond to a Garret VLF metal detector coil at 6.5 KHz or to AM broadcast transmissions.

Conclusions based on reported results:
1. Alonso PD was designed as a modification and enhancement to an existing metal detector to improve its discriminating ability and range.
Funfinder detector was designed as a high gain amplifier to see what would happen if you solder parts together without a circuit board and put them in a wooden box, then connect a coil, a metal plate, and an optional finger touch point at a transistor emitter. The objective seems to be an attempt to achieve long range detection, and leave the design theory for later after we see what it detects.
2. The Alonso PD detects buried gold and gold in the air. The Funfinder detector detects charged plastic bags from 1 m, and helicopters flying at over 1 Km distance. And possibly detects loud sounds?
3. There have been no reports of the Funfinder detector responding to buried metals. If this detector is to be used for treasure hunting, then maybe we will need more experimenting to get it to locate metals.

(Just as an idea - don't try this unless you think it's a good idea)
Maybe begin with a theory of what kind of signal you want to detect that could indicate buried metal. Then make a basic circuit design to detect this kind of signal.
Then, as a final step, do the extreme fine tuning of the antennas. And while you fine tune the antennas, maybe it will be good to put the high gain inputs and amplifier on a circuit board so conductors cannot move, and so you can establish a good ground plane.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

perhaps therefore later I'm priviledged for a special detector that only works extremly finetuned... diving deep into the microcosmos of "hyper minimal difference - arts"...



Hi Funfinder

here you are:

detector #3 DNC (Deep Nano Cosmos) detector:

[WM6]

if previuos project is too complicated here you are very simple version:

[WM6]

Or this someway advanced:

[WM6]

or maybe you wish somewhat more advanced:

[WM6]

and if you prefer simple transistor solution:

[raff33]

hi WM6,
have you build one of these projects ? what's the result ?
thanks for informations :)

[WM6]

hi WM6,
have you build one of these projects ? what's the result ?
thanks for informations :)



Hi Raff33

I am not born dowser (as mr. hung is), so my results are egal to null. But it is interesting to play with such construction.

[detectoman]

these funny finder semms not possible zoom

[detectoman]

or may be yours prefered simple telescopic anten in hands whit body in trance or meditation, stile; converse lrlstman max

[Funfinder]

Guess I solved the riddle:

It is always an "inbetween thing".

In usual MDs the metal objects comes inbetween the action-radius of the coil(s) or there field(s) and with special detectors it also can only work if there is this special situation.

It was proven tested and possible that an electrostatic detector also finds metal if it's inbetween the e.s.-field.

And that helicopter my Detector #2 received also was inbetween such an e.s.-field of earth and sky. It doesn't have to directly above me because of its very strong power, like a flash in a thunderstorm also can be far away and still got recognised.


It is very interresting that the Mineoro doesn't work at high air-humidity (and also soil humidity???) because usually radio waves have no problem with it. You even can watch satellite TV if it's strong raining or snowing - there is only some loss in signal-strenght. And of course you also can listen to the radio if it's raining.

What really is effected by humidity is electrostatic and high voltage.

Let's assume the Mineoro measures the difference between the nearby static potential of ground and sky.
Even if it works different - and we better find an all time working device - with this method it should be possible to detect metal objects only with passive reception.

[FrancoItaly]

Hi All

For measuring a static voltage (perhaps a part of "phenomenon") it's necessary an alternate B field that acts as antenna, a sort of "chopper" system that overlaps tha DC field, otherwise it's very difficult to meausure a little change in the static DC field. There is a change if we lower or raise the antenna or we change the inclination and perhaps it is the Sky or compass effect

Best regards

[J_Player]

Guess I solved the riddle:

It is always an "inbetween thing".

In usual MDs the metal objects comes inbetween the action-radius of the coil(s) or there field(s) and with special detectors it also can only work if there is this special situation.

It was proven tested and possible that an electrostatic detector also finds metal if it's inbetween the e.s.-field.

And that helicopter my Detector #2 received also was inbetween such an e.s.-field of earth and sky. It doesn't have to directly above me because of its very strong power, like a flash in a thunderstorm also can be far away and still got recognised.


It is very interresting that the Mineoro doesn't work at high air-humidity (and also soil humidity???) because usually radio waves have no problem with it. You even can watch satellite TV if it's strong raining or snowing - there is only some loss in signal-strenght. And of course you also can listen to the radio if it's raining.

What really is effected by humidity is electrostatic and high voltage.

Let's assume the Mineoro measures the difference between the nearby static potential of ground and sky.
Even if it works different - and we better find an all time working device - with this method it should be possible to detect metal objects only with passive reception.Hmmmm...
I don't believe it.
I don't think your circuit can detect changes of electrostatic field that are caused by a helicopter flying at a distance of 1-2 Km. I believe your detector can detect static fields maybe up to 10 meters for very large field strength (lightning bolt strikes the ground at 10 meters distance, for example). But we know the inverse square law will quickly diminish the detection distance for even large fields when they are more than 1 km distance. You guess you solved the riddle because a helicopter more than 1 km away interrupted the field gradient between earth and sky?
Are you serious?

Do some testing on your detector. Why not see if it is sensitive to large acoustic vibrations? Take it to the side of a railway crossing while a train is passing by and see if the train sounds cause the wires to rattle enough to make it beep. Put a Faraday shield over the detector so it cannot detect static fields, and will only rattle with the train sounds. My guess is it will beep in unison with the clanging sounds of the train.

We hear long diatribe about how better testing is needed to learn how LRLs work, but when we get to the final analasis, we see you are content to "guess" you solved the riddle by choosing the most convienient theory you have in mind to explain what your circuit is detecting. The fact is you don't know what it is detecting.

From what I read so far, my best guess is you built a static field detector that is good for a few meters at best. But because you have loose wires on your high impedance inputs taped together inside a sound box, it is probably also sensitive to acoustic vibrations. However, this is only my guess, because the critical testing to determine what the circuit is detecting has never been done.

At this point, my assessment of this LRL is it is a very good gizmo that is ripe to mass produce for a toy for children to experiment with and dream about mysterious forces it can see. Maybe it detects ghosts and Jinns as well as static fields. But nobody knows for sure. This is the beauty of it. It can be represented as a treasure finder, a long range aircraft detector, a static field detector, a spirit finder, and a detecftor of anything else you can think of. If you took Carl's test to locate a Jinn hidden behind one of 10 trees spaced 3 meters apart, you could claim the Jinn moved as soon as you located him! Who could prove you wrong?

I suppose it is a good strategy to claim you guessed how the circuit works when you did no testing that shows any evidence that your guess is correct. It is even better strategy to compare your detector to Mineoro, which is completely different in design, components, and operation. This has the effect of elevating your taped-together high impedance op amp to the status of the Mineoro regenerative receiver and strange ion chamber with an unusual antenna system (a questionable status level). Somehow, I don't think a taped together op amp is comparable to a Mineoro LRL. I think it is comparable to a high impedance op amp connected to an antenna and loose wires inside a sound box.

Best wishes,
J_P

[goldfinder]

JP,
Always with the scientific method. Your just busting those hot air balloons of the LRL guys all the time. :nono:
Don't you know they don't want to hear that popping going on all the time?
Goldfinder

[J_Player]

JP,
Always with the scientific method. Your just busting those hot air balloons of the LRL guys all the time. :nono:
Don't you know they don't want to hear that popping going on all the time?
GoldfinderHi Goldfinder,
There are also a lot of technically oriented people who don't want to hear a lot of conclusions that have no basis in fact to fill the remote sensing forum. The reason I point out the hot air balloons is because this is a technical forum, not a forum full of hot air. As you recall, Carl set up this forum with a rule to keep the hot air out:

Be factual. If you make an extraordinary claim, be prepared to get challenged.

I am not simply following the forum rules. I am also providing an incentive to LRL developers to do their homework before they make statements of fact based on guesses. Hopefully Funfinder will actually do some testing to see what causes the beeping when a helicopter flies by at over 1 Km distance. If this happens, then we won't have casual readers thinking the circuit detects the static field of distant aircraft. We will have some substantial evidence that makes sense to explain what is happening in the circuit. And we also won't have educated readers laughing at silly un-substantiated conclusions they read in the Geotech forum.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Funfinder]

Good luck with the circuits - with building, testing, analysing and whatever. :D
And no stupid comments! :nono:

[WM6]

Good luck with the circuits - with building, testing, analysing and whatever. :D
And no stupid comments! :nono:

Excellent!

But why bother with this proven nonworking stuff?

Better buy this:

The Ultimate Ghost Hunting Kit http://www.lessemf.com/images/pro.jpg
The Ultimate is what the professionals are using to hunt down the paranormal (Add your own camera and recording device).


The Ultimate Kit Includes:
Datalogging 3-axis Digital AC Gaussmeter
Portable Motion Sensor x2
Monitor 4 (Geiger Counter)
Wireless 4 Zone Thermometer
Natural EM Meter
Deluxe Carrying Case to keep it all together.

All this for one low price of $810.00, you save $85.70
Ultimate Paranormal Kit (Cat. #Pro) �................ $810.00 http://www.lessemf.com/images/buynow.gif (http://www.aitsafe.com/cf/add.cfm?userid=1151290&product=Ultimate+Paranormal+Kit&price=810.00&units=10&return=www.lessemf.com/ghost.html#Kits)
(We reserve the right to substitute items of different brands, depending on availability)

[goldfinder]

Hi Goldfinder,
There are also a lot of technically oriented people who don't want to hear a lot of conclusions that have no basis in fact to fill the remote sensing forum. The reason I point out the hot air balloons is because this is a technical forum, not a forum full of hot air. As you recall, Carl set up this forum with a rule to keep the hot air out:

Be factual. If you make an extraordinary claim, be prepared to get challenged.

I am not simply following the forum rules. I am also providing an incentive to LRL developers to do their homework before they make statements of fact based on guesses. Hopefully Funfinder will actually do some testing to see what causes the beeping when a helicopter flies by at over 1 Km distance. If this happens, then we won't have casual readers thinking the circuit detects the static field of distant aircraft. We will have some substantial evidence that makes sense to explain what is happening in the circuit. And we also won't have educated readers laughing at silly un-substantiated conclusions they read in the Geotech forum.

Best wishes,
J_P
----
I was just kidding you.:) I agree with your approach. If something like an LRL device works regardless whether its dowsing (disguised or not) then it should be testable. Just as a normal metal detector is quite testable.

goldfinder

[Funfinder]

@ WM6
For ghost-hunting an usual radio-recorder also should work.
Tune to some "white noise" area and ask some questions and if listen carefully you can hear the answers on the tape.
At least some scandinavian guy did this in the 70s.

Or call Gabriele Amorth, chief-exorcist of Rome, perhaps you're obsessed by some evil ghost. :cool:

If the souls of gone persons really exists or are detectable we had already not only electro-smog but also "soul-smog" because already there are billions of souls and 1000x times more than 500 years ago.

btw. a cool idea:
like test-driving a new or used car we could ask the "ghost-detection-kit"-reseller going with us at midnight to some cemetary or graveyard. :lol:

Perhaps such "ghost detector" also leads us to tombs with alot gold and jewels, protected by spirits that don't like treasure-hunters. :lol:

[Qiaozhi]

@ WM6
For ghost-hunting an usual radio-recorder also should work.
Tune to some "white noise" area and ask some questions and if listen carefully you can hear the answers on the tape.
At least some scandinavian guy did this in the 70s.
This stuff about hearing ghosts in the white-noise of a tape recorder is just nonsense.
Watch this ... if you dare!

http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dl1aXO2wlQkk

[Zocky-Zocky]

Funfinder!
My congratulations on this your detector. I like it. I think we need to work on its further development.
I would like to pray, if not a problem, the following information:
1. Induktivity and resistance of the antenna 15 cm;
2. Cross-section of copper wire in millimeters, from which the antenna is made;
3. Resistance Plate antenna;
4. Dimensions Plate antenna;
5. From what kind of metal is made Plate antenna;
6. Are the values of resistors on your schedule in ohms (ohms) or Kohm, and
7. Have you used an active speaker with its own audio amplifier?
Many thanks you in advance for your response!
Good luck in future investigations of wishe!
Zocky-Zocky

[Funfinder]

Hi Zocky-Zocky!

Thx for your interrest but for now I have no idea how to improve this stuff. The EMFAD detector uses passive long wave receiver that can find EM-field concentration but what we'd need is to get the "reflection field" of metal objects inbetween the underground electrostatic field.

Modern earthquake-warners can detect the current of bedrock if set under friction or pressure like it is used in piezo-lighters but yet I have no idea how to use this for metal detection.

Answers to your questions:

1. don't know but these values are not important in this case
2. 0,25 or 0,30 mm
3. no idea
4. ca. 25x15cm
5. iron tin, but you can use anything
6. if there's written no k the ohm values are below 1000
7. the activ-speaker has an amplification, but not alot

btw. if you're using a larger plate antenna you can get even more sensitivity. Good luck with your experiments! :)

[Funfinder]

@all
You may have forgotten my question...
Which detector can find a 3cm diameter coin at 50cm depth?

I guess it really could be the: The Minelab GPX5000! :)

[WM6]

I guess it really could be the: The Minelab GPX5000! :)



Maybe after upgrading to The Minelab GPX4500!

Read this:

http://cgi.ebay.de/Minelab-GPX-5000-GPX-5000-Newest-detector-Upgrades-/190493584210?pt=AU_Gadgets&hash=item2c5a4d6b52

[Morgan]

@all
You may have forgotten my question...
Which detector can find a 3cm diameter coin at 50cm depth?

I guess it really could be the: The Minelab GPX5000! :)

Well,in my field test,MINELAB GPX5000 cant go deeper than NEXUS standard SE...
The MINELAB is beter for finding nuggets in mineralized soil.
Maybe your minelab coil is biger than 14" ,to get this deep results.

[wagner poltronieri]

Good luck with the circuits - with building, testing, analysing and whatever. :D
And no stupid comments! :nono:

Thanks for the design, the one with integrated circuit you set up? Is it the same circuit at the beginning of the post?
Does the box have to be wood or other material? I'll ride because I believe in your technology, hugs

[racminer]

Good luck with the circuits - with building, testing, analysing and whatever. :D
And no stupid comments! :nono:

Hi
Thanks for posting schematics.
I don't quite understand how your IC1 LM358 is used ... pin2 (IN-1) and pin6 (IN-2) are not connected to anything??

Thanks again.

[racminer]

[QUOTE=Qiaozhi;117562]This stuff about hearing ghosts in the white-noise of a tape recorder is just nonsense.
Watch this ... if you dare!


www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1aXO2wlQkk

It links but it's private LOL

[Qiaozhi]

[QUOTE=Qiaozhi;117562]This stuff about hearing ghosts in the white-noise of a tape recorder is just nonsense.
Watch this ... if you dare!


www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1aXO2wlQkk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1aXO2wlQkk)

It links but it's private LOL
The poster of the video has changed it to private. :(

[Qiaozhi]

Everyone ... discussions or arguments involving religion and politics are not allowed in the Geotech forums. I have just had to delete several posts involving religion, and any further posts may result in you taking a sabbatical from the forums.

[Pahom]

Everyone ... discussions or arguments involving religion and politics are not allowed in the Geotech forums. I have just had to delete several posts involving religion, and any further posts may result in you taking a sabbatical from the forums.And how can I register on the Geotech forum. I tried a couple of times, and failed.

[Qiaozhi]

And how can I register on the Geotech forum. I tried a couple of times, and failed.
The same way that you registered in the LongRangeLocators forum.
If you're having problems, then read this ->
Can't Register? Can't Log In? START HERE (https://www.geotech1.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?71-Can-t-Register-Can-t-Log-In-START-HERE)
Please read BEFORE contacting admins


Also, please note, that we do not discuss LRLs or dowsing in the Geotech forum.
Please read the forum rules before posting there -> Basic Rules of the Forums (https://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?10526-Basic-Rules-of-the-Forums)

[racminer]

Hi
Thanks for posting schematics.
I don't quite understand how your IC1 LM358 is used ... pin2 (IN-1) and pin6 (IN-2) are not connected to anything??

Thanks again.
Still waiting for an answer.