Alonso PD modification

[Geo]

Hi.
I attach 2 photos of the modifications that i made to the PD of Alonso.

[takhslambos]

it is working?

[Funfinder]

This is absolutly cool, Geo, because you are really working with this interresting device - in both directions!

What's the adventage of your new mod?

[Morgan]

Hi.
I attach 2 photos of the modifications that i made to the PD of Alonso.


I can see 3 modifications :

1- Coil instead of ferrite

2- Two potentiometers (Tune,and fine tune) for better adjust in the limit.

3- Square TX coil ??? Not the Omega...

[smity]

There is a normal video of this product? Coin in the ground can be found? Where to see the scheme, and a list of components, PCB?

[Geo]

it is working?

For the time, only with aluminium objects.
I changed the frequencies but i have not time to check it. Maybe at September when i will go for treasure hunting to check it.

[Geo]

This is absolutly cool, Geo, because you are really working with this interresting device - in both directions!

What's the adventage of your new mod?

It is very calm!!!
It do not need to adjust it at the critical point:)

[Geo]

I can see 3 modifications :

1- Coil instead of ferrite

2- Two potentiometers (Tune,and fine tune) for better adjust in the limit.

3- Square TX coil ??? Not the Omega...

Square coil is in the place of the ferrite!!!!
There is another coil at the rear place of the box (you can see it).
Potentiometers are ... one for sensitivity and the other to control the min signal that needing the beep generator to go On (about the same with trs_hold.

Regards

[Geo]

There is a normal video of this product? Coin in the ground can be found? Where to see the scheme, and a list of components, PCB?

Sorry, no video for the time!!

[Morgan]

Square coil is in the place of the ferrite!!!!
There is another coil at the rear place of the box (you can see it).
Potentiometers are ... one for sensitivity and the other to control the min signal that needing the beep generator to go On (about the same with trs_hold.

Regards


I supose you use square coil instead of RX ferrite and a small round coil behind as oscillator,like stimulator in the DCH 85 MINEORO...

Maybe

[Geo]

I supose you use square coil instead of RX ferrite and a small round coil behind as oscillator,like stimulator in the DCH 85 MINEORO...

Maybe


Hi
Yes.... about.
Also i combinate the two signals

Regards

[Funfinder]

Geo, this sounds very intererresting.

So if now alu only gets detected does it use the same kind of metal-discrimination like conventional MDs?

The disc range usually is:
mineral -> little, old rusty iron -> noble iron -> iron balls -> cheap & small alu foil -> gold -> gold alloys -> copper -> silver -> aluminium

Or is there really some "resonant-frequency" for special metals?

[Geo]

Geo, this sounds very intererresting.

So if now alu only gets detected does it use the same kind of metal-discrimination like conventional MDs?

The disc range usually is:
mineral -> little, old rusty iron -> noble iron -> iron balls -> cheap & small alu foil -> gold -> gold alloys -> copper -> silver -> aluminium

Or is there really some "resonant-frequency" for special metals?

I am not sure about resonant-frequency. At first it worked at 150Khz.
Now i tuned it at lower frequency but i did not test it.

[nelson]

Hi Geo.
I m trying to find this circuit of Alonso PD, but there is a lot of informatión here in the forum. So can you or anyone tell me where to look for any geotech link to find the circuit and pcb.
I know the circuit was publish here and also pcb´s, that previusly i saved to my old hard disk that is broken now.
In advance many thanks
Regards
Nelson
email: ce3llp@mi.cl


Hi.
I attach 2 photos of the modifications that i made to the PD of Alonso.

[Funfinder]

@ nelson
It wasn't published on this forum but here (btw. WM6 is an Admin there):
http://hobidetektori.own0.com/lrl-f6/pd-pistol-t637.htm
(see also Remote Sensing -> "artemis"): http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16692&page=2 )

@ Geo
So if it works with 150kHz a modified Long Wave Receiver should work! :D This IS very good news, thx Geo! :)

btw. now with this new info I'm shure it's the BFO metal-distinction and not some resonant-frequency. :shocked:

[nelson]

Hi Funfinder and thanks for your reply to my dubs.
I will look forward to see if i can get any help about schematics and extra information to build and test Alonso PD unit.
Unfortunaly it seems that this is reserved for some people, not the one like me, that we don´t have to much electronic knolegments, just the entisust of making detectors and test them.
I had send a few private massages to some people from the forum, but unfortunaly it seems that are no interested on sharing information about Alonso PD:frown::frown::frown:
By the way how is your last test about electrostatic detector?
Take care and have a nice day
Regards
Nelson



@ nelson
It wasn't published on this forum but here (btw. WM6 is an Admin there):
http://hobidetektori.own0.com/lrl-f6/pd-pistol-t637.htm
(see also Remote Sensing -> "artemis"): http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16692&page=2 )

@ Geo
So if it works with 150kHz a modified Long Wave Receiver should work! :D This IS very good news, thx Geo! :)

btw. now with this new info I'm shure it's the BFO metal-distinction and not some resonant-frequency. :shocked:

[Funfinder]

Hi nelson!

On the yug. forum there is the schematic and at page two also a picture how to arrange the coils.
This is not so complicated as it looks if you like to rebuild it exactly from the "plans".

btw. I think the Alonso PD could be a very great oportunity and possibility saving the credibility of that whole LRL-stuff!

Because we know from Morgan, Geo and some other that "for shure!" it works!

This together with an exact explanation WHY it works helps to recover the "reputation" of the whole LRL-stuff and really has to motivate MD-electronic-engineers to research, improve and build such kind of "longer distance hand held MDs"!

Nelson - my new electrostatic detector tests have shown that i absolutly need a wooden box housing and special (directional) antenna locations / layouts for gettin the best results.

The final version will be a 2 or even 3in1 detector - electrostatic with passive receiver (plus transmitter) - perhaps I'll try an astable multivibrator circuit or some very loud sound generator like car alarm units using it for the coil-input!

[nelson]

Hi Funfinder and thanks for your reply.
Ok, i will look for yung forum and comments to see what is showing there.
About your experiments i congratulate you, cause you are showing a very persistence work that for shure will have your reward.
When i get the circuit i will began to construct it and then i will have the oportunity to play and experiment with it.
I m also following your comments about your experiments and after i get the componets i will str for shure to try your device.

Best regards

Nelson




Hi nelson!

On the yug. forum there is the schematic and at page two also a picture how to arrange the coils.
This is not so complicated as it looks if you like to rebuild it exactly from the "plans".

btw. I think the Alonso PD could be a very great oportunity and possibility saving the credibility of that whole LRL-stuff!

Because we know from Morgan, Geo and some other that "for shure!" it works!

This together with an exact explanation WHY it works helps to recover the "reputation" of the whole LRL-stuff and really has to motivate MD-electronic-engineers to research, improve and build such kind of "longer distance hand held MDs"!

Nelson - my new electrostatic detector tests have shown that i absolutly need a wooden box housing and special (directional) antenna locations / layouts for gettin the best results.

The final version will be a 2 or even 3in1 detector - electrostatic with passive receiver (plus transmitter) - perhaps I'll try an astable multivibrator circuit or some very loud sound generator like car alarm units using it for the coil-input!

[nelson]

Hi Funfinder again.
I was searching for yug forum, but i really can´t find it, so can you tell me were to look for?
Regards
Nelson



Hi nelson!

On the yug. forum there is the schematic and at page two also a picture how to arrange the coils.
This is not so complicated as it looks if you like to rebuild it exactly from the "plans".

btw. I think the Alonso PD could be a very great oportunity and possibility saving the credibility of that whole LRL-stuff!

Because we know from Morgan, Geo and some other that "for shure!" it works!

This together with an exact explanation WHY it works helps to recover the "reputation" of the whole LRL-stuff and really has to motivate MD-electronic-engineers to research, improve and build such kind of "longer distance hand held MDs"!

Nelson - my new electrostatic detector tests have shown that i absolutly need a wooden box housing and special (directional) antenna locations / layouts for gettin the best results.

The final version will be a 2 or even 3in1 detector - electrostatic with passive receiver (plus transmitter) - perhaps I'll try an astable multivibrator circuit or some very loud sound generator like car alarm units using it for the coil-input!

[Funfinder]

nelson, its this posted link again:
Drinking some spiritual stuff may help! ;) :D
http://hobidetektori.own0.com/lrl-f6/pd-pistol-t637.htm

> About your experiments i congratulate you, cause you are showing a very persistence work that for shure will have your reward.
Thank you - yeah, someone really needs passion for all this kind of experiments, inventions plus alot motivation and time...

[Funfinder]

@nelson
Here you can find the Alonso PD "principle", but we have to exactly discover/define it and making clear this "cryptical" and "blurry explanations".

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13991

[Morgan]

For the time, only with aluminium objects.
I changed the frequencies but i have not time to check it. Maybe at September when i will go for treasure hunting to check it.


Hello Geo

What is the distance this new PD detect buried aluminium foil or object ?
Tell about your experiences.

Regards

[detectoman]

guys aluminum is an problem for everyvary detector, cigarrete paper, or aluminum bottle caps
aluminum trap waves how tv anten

[Geo]

Hello Geo

What is the distance this new PD detect buried aluminium foil or object ?
Tell about your experiences.

Regards


Hi Morgan.
It is about 30% more sensitive from the Alonso's PD. The advantage is that it is not so critical at the adjustment. I took signals from small aluminium metals from 4m very easy. Aluminium was from a old barn (about 40 years old).
Disadvantage is that i went with it at an old village uninhabited for 80 years and i did not took signals in opposite with the TDI and Sovereign that found some silver and copper objects.
So i changed the frequency and now i wait for the time to go for test.

[Funfinder]

@ everyone who really knows this!!!:

Why do you think aluminium has a certain "frequency" for detection and how can you prove this / explain this understandable for everyone?!


I guess the alu-issue has something to do with this:

http://sound.westhost.com/xfmr.htm
The permeability of transformer cores varies widely, depending on the material and any treatment that may be used. The permeability of air is 1, and most traditional cores have a much higher (i.e. > 1) permeability. A couple of notable exceptions are aluminium and brass, which are sometimes used to reduce the inductance of air cored coils in radio frequency (RF) work. This is much less common than a ferrite "slug" core, which increases the inductance and is used to tune some RF transformers.


But I have a second important question:

detectoman wrote here:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=114971&postcount=14

principes of pd, these is hibrid, :oh: two in one, ok you then take an look to may last project named the extrange stuff of extremely poor detectoman, this too hibrid, bfo & ionic

So before I start through with my project I wanna know what kind of "passive" stuff is received or not!

With "ionic" only electrostatic can be meant because this receiver has no "ion-trap"-can but what is the passive part?

Does it receives "passive" 60kHz or something and if there is a metal object somewhere the directional antenna receives the change of induction-impedance so the 60kHz shifts to 60.200 and the difference is audible like with a bfo?

btw. what has the BFO part to do with this if it's passive?

Usually a BFO transmits at certain frequency or picks up those already somewhere created signal.

Perhaps the PD is not passive at all, but uses the BFO-radiation???

[Morgan]

Hi Morgan.
It is about 30% more sensitive from the Alonso's PD. The advantage is that it is not so critical at the adjustment. I took signals from small aluminium metals from 4m very easy. Aluminium was from a old barn (about 40 years old).
Disadvantage is that i went with it at an old village uninhabited for 80 years and i did not took signals in opposite with the TDI and Sovereign that found some silver and copper objects.
So i changed the frequency and now i wait for the time to go for test.


Hi Geo

This is very strange. With PD i always catch the gold and silver the same as the aluminium.
I can see the Alonso PD is something very problematic for clonage and to make balance for correct detection of precious metals,to many secrets...

Regards

[Morgan]

Hi Morgan.
It is about 30% more sensitive from the Alonso's PD. The advantage is that it is not so critical at the adjustment. I took signals from small aluminium metals from 4m very easy. Aluminium was from a old barn (about 40 years old).
Disadvantage is that i went with it at an old village uninhabited for 80 years and i did not took signals in opposite with the TDI and Sovereign that found some silver and copper objects.
So i changed the frequency and now i wait for the time to go for test.


Anyway 4 meters distance small fragments of metal,my congratulation ,you give one big step on this PD project,something that others EE not get yet ;)

[Geo]

Hi Geo

This is very strange. With PD i always catch the gold and silver the same as the aluminium.
I can see the Alonso PD is something very problematic for clonage and to make balance for correct detection of precious metals,to many secrets...

Regards


Hi Morgan.
Maybe because i used different frequencies.
The next time that i will go for treasure hunting to the old village that i wrote at previous post, i will info about the results with the "new" frequencies

Regards

[Geo]

Anyway 4 meters distance small fragments of metal,my congratulation ,you give one big step on this PD project,something that others EE not get yet ;)


You know.... :):):)

[Funfinder]

Wait - if it's that sensitive this really would mean you don't can hold or wear any metal objects while search?


Shovel, moneybag, key, rings, watch, chains, backpack with equipment and most problematic - the found metal object you wanna take with you!

[J_Player]

Wait - if it's that sensitive this really would mean you don't can hold or wear any metal objects while search?


Shovel, moneybag, key, rings, watch, chains, backpack with equipment and most problematic - the found metal object you wanna take with you!What if you have gold or silver fillings in your teeth? :eek:
Does this mean you cannot use LRLs?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Then the "old" problem of high iron level in blood should not be ignored...

[luciano furtado]

you can use the time to research this as an armor-V or grounded in the earth, forming a Faraday cage hehehehe ....

[J_Player]

you can use the time to research this as an armor-V or grounded in the earth, forming a Faraday cage hehehehe ....Cool!
This looks like excellent treasure hunting attire. I am sure the conquistadors used these same clothes when they searched for treasure in the 15th century.
An added bonus is you don't need to worry about banditos who try to take your treasure away. :thumb:
:)

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

Wait - if it's that sensitive this really would mean you don't can hold or wear any metal objects while search?


Shovel, moneybag, key, rings, watch, chains, backpack with equipment and most problematic - the found metal object you wanna take with you!


No,only long time ago buried metals can be located at this big distances,becouse during many years underground they create somekind of electromagnetic field,and the PD or maybe other LRL can detect this phenomenon.

[detectoman]

little and dear cousin morgan ** :),** i think may be too female diu satanicus aparatus can be detected whit lrl due them have an coil wire,s coper winded

mi pequeno y querido primo morgan, yo pienso, que puede ser, tambien los aparatos femeninos o anticonceptivos perversos' children killers diu" pueden ser detectados con los lrl debido a que ellos tienen un alambre de cobre enredado

p,d) icant post to geotech, an picture of my last lrl due excesive heavy archive", i not understand why, may be may camera isnt geotech format compatible

[Fred]

:lol::lol::lol:

I vote this post to be the best post ever on the Geotech-nical forum

[Funfinder]

No,only long time ago buried metals can be located at this big distances,becouse during many years underground they create somekind of electromagnetic field,and the PD or maybe other LRL can detect this phenomenon.

OK, this is very good! :)

btw. the contrary / opposite situation would be extremly worse -
if the LRL only could find short time ago lost, hidden or buried objects!

After a few years probable those would become undetectable for all eternity! :shocked: :shocked: :|

That's why we are very lucky how those working LRLs work - if they work... ;) :) :D

[J_Player]

I was just wondering....

Suppose someone has a gold filling in a tooth, and they also have a silver filling in a different tooth. Silver fillings are also known to contain mercury which was amalgamated into the silver at the time the filling was made. The saliva in their mouth would act as an electrolyte and would cause a small current flow. Maybe there would be several chemical actions between the gold, silver and mercury. We can also expect there will be some amount of organic acids in the saliva from time to time. The result is there will be an ion concentration inside the person's mouth that can reach levels many times higher than what has been measured in the soil around long-time buried gold or silver from natural chemical decomposition, and much higher than the micro-gold particle content measured in the air or soil.

The question is this:
1. How can this person use an LRL that relies on ion detection to locate gold or silver?
2. Does this explain why some people cannot find a coin from a mile distance using their modified LRLs, or can't even find detection at 3 meters using any LRL? :oh:

I wonder if they have their fillings removed and replaced with non-metal fillings...
would this cause them to immediately begin finding long range detection with LRLs and dowsing rods? :???:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

I was just wondering....

Suppose someone has a gold filling in a tooth, and they also have a silver filling in a different tooth. Silver fillings are also known to contain mercury which was amalgamated into the silver at the time the filling was made. The saliva in their mouth would act as an electrolyte and would cause a small current flow. Maybe there would be several chemical actions between the gold, silver and mercury. We can also expect there will be some amount of organic acids in the saliva from time to time. The result is there will be an ion concentration inside the person's mouth that can reach levels many times higher than what has been measured in the soil around long-time buried gold or silver from natural chemical decomposition, and much higher than the micro-gold particle content measured in the air or soil.

The question is this:
1. How can this person use an LRL that relies on ion detection to locate gold or silver?
2. Does this explain why some people cannot find a coin from a mile distance using their modified LRLs, or can't even find detection at 3 meters using any LRL? :oh:

I wonder if they have their fillings removed and replaced with non-metal fillings...
would this cause them to immediately begin finding long range detection with LRLs and dowsing rods? :???:

Best wishes,
J_P


:angry::angry::angry::angry:

[Funfinder]

I'm shure it's impossible some gold-fillings will affect the behaviour of the search device as long as someone don't bites into the dowsing rod! :D

Ehm, seriously, there are no flying gold-ions 100s of meters through the air. But the magnetic earth field get's distorted by electro-chemical ground-charges - charged by the electrostatical field. btw. there is no magnetical flux between the poles but static energy-field-lines or areas with a special magnetic potential.

Why someone has to search from north into direction south for getting the best detection has something to do that this very weak treasure-anomaly gets more attracted by the northern pole (or even by the equator, if the cause is something else). Morgan could test this - perhaps he has to search from south to north for gettin' better results.

There are no flying / air-traveling gold-ions - they are bound to the ground and may penetrate some near earth, but nothing else. But metal objects can catch, reflect or transform the EM-field, can work as capacitor or even "battery".

I doubt it has something to do with the different person or human body that holds the LRL, but with the calibration and the energy field-situation. The only problem is that the human body also works as antenna or can charge up by influence from the ground and the from person to person changing charge of this body (even depending on shoes, clothes & other equiment) negatively affects the sensitivity of the LRL.

[WM6]

I wonder if they have their fillings removed and replaced with non-metal fillings...



It seems that only lobotomy may helped in case of fanatic lrlitis.

[Qiaozhi]

I'm shure it's impossible some gold-fillings will affect the behaviour of the search device as long as someone don't bites into the dowsing rod! :D

Ehm, seriously, there are no flying gold-ions 100s of meters through the air. But the magnetic earth field get's distorted by electro-chemical ground-charges - charged by the electrostatical field. btw. there is no magnetical flux between the poles but static energy-field-lines or areas with a special magnetic potential.

Why someone has to search from north into direction south for getting the best detection has something to do that this very weak treasure-anomaly gets more attracted by the northern pole (or even by the equator, if the cause is something else). Morgan could test this - perhaps he has to search from south to north for gettin' better results.

There are no flying / air-traveling gold-ions - they are bound to the ground and may penetrate some near earth, but nothing else. But metal objects can catch, reflect or transform the EM-field, can work as capacitor or even "battery".

I doubt it has something to do with the different person or human body that holds the LRL, but with the calibration and the energy field-situation. The only problem is that the human body also works as antenna or can charge up by influence from the ground and the from person to person changing charge of this body (even depending on shoes, clothes & other equiment) negatively affects the sensitivity of the LRL.
Do you sometimes feel like you are searching for gold at the end of a rainbow?

[J_Player]

I'm shure it's impossible some gold-fillings will affect the behaviour of the search device as long as someone don't bites into the dowsing rod! :D

Ehm, seriously, there are no flying gold-ions 100s of meters through the air. But the magnetic earth field get's distorted by electro-chemical ground-charges - charged by the electrostatical field. btw. there is no magnetical flux between the poles but static energy-field-lines or areas with a special magnetic potential.

Why someone has to search from north into direction south for getting the best detection has something to do that this very weak treasure-anomaly gets more attracted by the northern pole (or even by the equator, if the cause is something else). Morgan could test this - perhaps he has to search from south to north for gettin' better results.

There are no flying / air-traveling gold-ions - they are bound to the ground and may penetrate some near earth, but nothing else. But metal objects can catch, reflect or transform the EM-field, can work as capacitor or even "battery".

I doubt it has something to do with the different person or human body that holds the LRL, but with the calibration and the energy field-situation. The only problem is that the human body also works as antenna or can charge up by influence from the ground and the from person to person changing charge of this body (even depending on shoes, clothes & other equiment) negatively affects the sensitivity of the LRL.I think you are completely wrong, and the rods move as a result of muscles in the arms and hands of the person holding the rods. But it is easy to check to see if you are right or wrong.
You can get a person who is successfull at dowsing, and then take their rod and put it in a non-metal clamp attached to a non-metal table or tripod, and adjust it so it is in perfect balance. Then let them walk to the rod and put their hand on it while the clamp prevents it from tilting on its axis. While the dowser has his hand on the rod, you can have him look behind while you wave a piece of gold or silver back and forth at the rod. Or you can put the metal on the ground in front of the rod to see if it swings toward the treasure as it did when he was using the rod that was not prevented from moving on its axis.

You could even perform this test without a clamp, by letting a dowser show you how he can find a ring lying on a table or the ground. Then you hide the ring somewhere in close distance and let him show you how the rod still swings toward the hidden ring every time, same as when he saw it lying on the ground.

Best wishes,
J_P

[detectoman]

may be an powerfull lrl higly expanded for andreas, too detect the gold or other mineral present in the human bodies, & blood, then false beeps, and general confusion of lr operators
may be and iron,s blind how knights for driver can help :(

[Geo]

I think you are completely wrong, and the rods move as a result of muscles in the arms and hands of the person holding the rods. But it is easy to check to see if you are right or wrong.
You can get a person who is successfull at dowsing, and then take their rod and put it in a non-metal clamp attached to a non-metal table or tripod, and adjust it so it is in perfect balance. Then let them walk to the rod and put their hand on it while the clamp prevents it from tilting on its axis. While the dowser has his hand on the rod, you can have him look behind while you wave a piece of gold or silver back and forth at the rod. Or you can put the metal on the ground in front of the rod to see if it swings toward the treasure as it did when he was using the rod that was not prevented from moving on its axis.

You could even perform this test without a clamp, by letting a dowser show you how he can find a ring lying on a table or the ground. Then you hide the ring somewhere in close distance and let him show you how the rod still swings toward the hidden ring every time, same as when he saw it lying on the ground.

Best wishes,
J_P


Hi J_P.
Did you saw any real dowsing man???
I think NO!!!!

Regards:)

[Funfinder]

Do you sometimes feel like you are searching for gold at the end of a rainbow?

There is not the end of the rainbow, there are two ends, so which one do you mean? ;)

No I don't feel this way, but I hope sometimes I'll find really serious and usable LRL information, even on my own.

btw. if you have drawn the circuit diagram of the Alonso PD did you also build it and with what results? Same like Geo and Morgan?

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
Did you saw any real dowsing man???
I think NO!!!!

Regards:)Yes, I have seen real dowsing. If you are sure it works, then maybe you also can try the experiment I described to see how the dowser finds the gold ring that he does not know the location of.

Best wishes :)
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

btw. if you have drawn the circuit diagram of the Alonso PD did you also build it and with what results? Same like Geo and Morgan?
I was wondering when someone would comment on that. :oh:

During the back-engineering of Alonso's PD there were several people involved, and yes ... I drew the final schematic. There were a few clones built of the device, but I do not believe that any of them were able to detect at long distance. Many of the cloners are still experimenting, so you will have to ask them if there were any positive results.

The TR part of the design is a direct copy of a Heathkit GD348, but with a smaller coil. The most interesting part is the ferrite circuit and its interaction with the omega coil. How this is supposed to provide any long-range detection is anybody's guess, but you are welcome to try for yourself.

[Geo]

Yes, I have seen real dowsing. If you are sure it works, then maybe you also can try the experiment I described to see how the dowser finds the gold ring that he does not know the location of.

Best wishes :)
J_P


Hi J_P.

Now you don't speak as J_P!!!!
What is happening with you??? Do you really believe that a dowser can't find the ring???? I made this test (with gold coin in the place of the ring) many times with 100% success. I wrote it many times...... i am a medium range dowser, not as my teacher!!!!. He finds coins from very long distance. One time he located some coins from inside the car and told us to go back side of a mountain because there was something. We went there and we found some silver and copper coins. Distance.... was about 2KM far.
YES... this is the reason that i wrote that maybe you have not see a really dowser.

Regards:)

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.

Now you don't speak as J_P!!!!
What is happening with you??? Do you really believe that a dowser can't find the ring???? I made this test (with gold coin in the place of the ring) many times with 100% success. I wrote it many times...... i am a medium range dowser, not as my teacher!!!!. He finds coins from very long distance. One time he located some coins from inside the car and told us to go back side of a mountain because there was something. We went there and we found some silver and copper coins. Distance.... was about 2KM far.
YES... this is the reason that i wrote that maybe you have not see a really dowser.

Regards:)Hi Geo,
But I have seen a dowser. I saw some amazing dowsing performance. But I have not seen the dowser find hidden gold that he does not know the location of. So I cannot say I know he can find hidden gold.

I am sure you can find hidden gold as you say. But this is not something I can truthfully say I have seen. I have only seen your writing about it. When I see it with my own eyes, then I will know for sure, same as you knew for sure what the PD does when you visited Morgan to see with your own eyes.

Here is something you can try that may show how dowsing working without making a live demonstration. Take a look here at Gaucho's treasure map and see if you can map dowse the treasure. http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=115920&postcount=143
I know you are not a map dowser, but maybe you have abilities you are not aware of. who knows?
You can give it a try, then wait to see where Gaucho finds the treasure. Maybe you are good at it and you don't even know.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
But I have seen a dowser. I saw some amazing dowsing performance. But I have not seen the dowser find hidden gold that he does not know the location of.
So you have not see a real dowser

So I cannot say I know he can find hidden gold.

I am sure you can find hidden gold as you say. But this is not something I can truthfully say I have seen. I have only seen your writing about it. When I see it with my own eyes, then I will know for sure, same as you knew for sure what the PD does when you visited Morgan to see with your own eyes.

You never saw a atom bomb, but you believe to it.... or nor???

Here is something you can try that may show how dowsing working without making a live demonstration. Take a look here at Gaucho's treasure map and see if you can map dowse the treasure. http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=115920&postcount=143
I know you are not a map dowser, but maybe you have abilities you are not aware of. who knows?
You can give it a try, then wait to see where Gaucho finds the treasure. Maybe you are good at it and you don't even know.

My friend, i don't need all these tests. I know what is happening.
Try to learn how to work with the Lrods and you will see that you will not need all these tests. Really!!!!

Best wishes, :)
J_P

My Regards:)

[J_Player]

Hi Geo,
But I have seen a dowser. I saw some amazing dowsing performance. But I have not seen the dowser find hidden gold that he does not know the location of.
So you have not see a real dowserHi Geo,
You don't understand. This dowser told me he is a real dowser who finds gold nuggets in the hills. He showed me a handful of gold nuggets he found. But I was only visiting him in his house, so I took one of his gold nuggets and put it on the floor. He walked over the nugget, and his rods crossed. Should you say he is not a real dowser only because you did not see him find gold nuggets in the hills? This is the same as me saying you are not a real dowser because I did not see you find gold nuggets in the hills. How can you know if he is a real dowser if all you have is stories I tell and he tells?

I say he is a real dowser because he says he finds unknown gold, just as all real dowsers say they find unknown gold. But I cannot say I am certain, because I never saw him find hidden gold. Only a person who sees it working can say they know for sure.

This is the same as you believed Morgan's PD would find gold, but you were not sure until you saw it with your own eyes, and heard the beeping from 2 meters. After seeing, then you were sure ... not simply hearing the story and thinking it can be true.

So the correct answer is you do not know if I saw a real dowser or not. You cannot be certain if he can really locate hidden gold or not unless you watch what he does in the hills with your own eyes. Maybe he is a real dowser, and maybe not. And same for me. I cannot be sure unless I see him find the hidden gold. I only say he is a real dowser because he says he is a real dowser, and because he showed me nuggets he found from dowsing, same as you say you are a real dowser who finds hidden metal.

The atom bomb also I cannot know for certain. I can only rely on the historical fact that Japan surrendered after receiveing two atom bombs, and a war was ended shortly afterward. And I see a lot of photos of two entire cities destroyed by what looks like a single bomb blast. But still, I am not 100% sure from watching my body become vaporized from an atom bomb.
My friend, i don't need all these tests. I know what is happening.
Try to learn how to work with the Lrods and you will see that you will not need all these tests. Really!!!!Of course you don't need these tests. You can see with your own eyes and watch the rods in your own hands. The people who like to see these tests are people who have not seen like me and many others who have not seen a dowser find hidden gold or other things. When we see the same as you see, then we can believe the same as you believe.

I have already tried the rods, and I have never gotten any response. Maybe I am not biologically equipped to get response from dowsing. I only know or certain what I saw, not what other people saw. So far, I never watched anyone find hidden gold with dowsing rods. This does not mean it is not possible. It means I did not see it. This is a fact -- I cannot pretend that I saw a dowser find hidden gold when I did not.

Maybe now you can understand why some people will not say they are sure dowsing works until they see it work like you.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[Geo]

Hi Geo,

I have already tried the rods, and I have never gotten any response. Maybe I am not biologically equipped to get response from dowsing.
Best wishes, :)

J_P


Hi J_P.
I had the same problem for many years until my friend (teacher) teach me. After it the Lrods worked very easy.
Now about all the other (for real dowser)..... i stop them because i am afraid that we will make this thread the same with Mineoro:lol:...

Regards:)

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
I had the same problem for many years until my friend (teacher) teach me. After it the Lrods worked very easy.
Now about all the other (for real dowser)..... i stop them because i am afraid that we will make this thread the same with Mineoro:lol:...

Regards:)Exactly!
After you saw it work with your own eyes, then you had a change of mind. I think this change of mind does not happen except for people who see with their own eyes.

We also see many people who are fake dowsers and cannot find treasures. The only way you can tell who is successful at finding treasures is to watch to see what they do. If you see them find treasures that they do not know the location of every time, then you can more easily believe it is not a fake dowser.

For me, I have no opinion about whether dowsing can work or not. I will believe when I see evidence that convinces me.

I don't think that ideamotor is the principle of dowsing except for some people who have a tendency to cause the rods to point where they think the treasure is. For myself, ideamotor principle has never worked. Not even when I can see the treasure. So I have personal experience that ideamotor does not work for me. If you are finding unknown treasures every time, then I think this cannot be ideamotor principles, but something different. What different principle? I don't know, and will not know until I have a chance to observe for myself and conduct some tests to see if I can identify what principle causes detection every time. But then I never saw a dowser find unknown treasure... not even one time. :lol:

So I can say nothing about how dowsing works or does not work.
All I can say is all dowsers who say they are real dowsers have refused to show their dowsing abilities in a test. Read the forums and see for yourself. It is true.
They only talk about how they can really dowse. But they never let skeptical people make tests to prove it is true.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[WM6]

So I can say nothing about how dowsing works or does not work.



For Geo his dowsing art evidently does not work.

To this day he cannot find nothing by his dovsing rod (read his posts back).

His "teacher" (if even exist) is only a little cheater or entertainer at the expense of fools like Geo.

Everything else is just a matter of religion and not dowsing art.

Typical for belivers is that: "My friend, i don't need all these tests.", because tests can destroy his religion which is unacceptable for all believers.

So believers fight hard to defend his religion - the only treasure which has remained.

[Geo]

For Geo his dowsing art evidently does not work.

To this day he cannot find nothing by his dovsing rod (read his posts back).

His "teacher" (if even exist) is only a little cheater or entertainer at the expense of fools like Geo.



I will stay only on this.
You are the clever and we are the fools!!!!
Thank you!!!!
I close this discussion:(:(

[J_Player]

For Geo his dowsing art evidently does not work.

To this day he cannot find nothing by his dovsing rod (read his posts back).

His "teacher" (if even exist) is only a little cheater or entertainer at the expense of fools like Geo.

Everything else is just a matter of religion and not dowsing art.

Typical for belivers is that: "My friend, i don't need all these tests.", because tests can destroy his religion which is unacceptable for all believers.

So believers fight hard to defend his religion - the only treasure which has remained.I have seen no first hand evidence that Geo's dowsing works or not works. Therefore, I have no opinion about whether it does or not. But you have said he cannot find nothing. Is your statement based on observations of Geo dowsing?
Or do you say this because you presume your conclusions are true without testing his dowsing to know for sure what you are talking about?

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

I will stay only on this.
You are the clever and we are the fools!!!!
Thank you!!!!
I close this discussion:(:(



Easiest way is to close discussion, more difficult is to argue something.

Those "fools" was only to challenge you to go on a real test, not to insult you, so stay calm.

I highly respect your knowledge and experience in field of electronic, but cannot respect your naivety in field of dowsing and "dowsing teacher" especially.




Or do you say this because you presume your conclusions are true without testing his dowsing to know for sure what you are talking about?



Dear J_P, I will be glad to answer this question after read your test report on Ranger-Tell Examiner.

(http://www.tonews.com/thread/885777/alt/treasure/hunting/lrl/rangertell_examiner_excellent.html)

[J_Player]

Easiest way is to close discussion, more difficult is to argue something.From your reply, I can see you would rather not talk about how you determined that Geo never found anything by his dowsing method. How strange... You posted your statement that Geo "can find nothing", but you do not want to say how you know that is factual information!

I highly respect your knowledge and experience in field of electronic, but cannot respect your naivety in field of dowsing and "dowsing teacher" especially.Thank you for your high respect. You are correct. I have no experience with dowsing teachers except what I read on Dell Winders Web page that tells me to dowse a water hose. I tried it and it did not work for me. But I never met Geo's dowsing teacher, so I cannot know if his teaching can show me how to dowse. It is very possible that there is no dowsing teacher who can teach me how to dowse. And it is also possible that a dowsing teacher can teach me how to dowse. However, I don't know the answer because I never met a live dowsing teacher. So I can only say I don't know. And your are correct, I am naive about dowsing because I know nothing about it.

Dear J_P, I will be glad to answer this question after read your test report on Ranger-Tell Examiner.Ok, That sounds fair. I will give a test report on the Rangertell Examiner. But I also expect to hear an equally well-written and revealing answer about how you determined that Geo never found nothing when dowsing.
By this, I mean you will explain how you found proof beyond reading words in a forum, and actually performed tests on Geo's performance with dowsing rods to determine that he found nothing.

Remember, I am trusting that you are a person of your word to give an equally well documented test report. So here is my preliminary test report for the Rangertell Examiner:

My Examiner test report:
I received the replacement Rangertell Examiner many months ago.
I unpacked it and photographed it, then I posted my photos here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=110221&postcount=637
I also made a number of posts where I invited anyone who is interested to come and try it out to see what kind of detection they can find.
During the weeks after the new Deluxe model Examiner arrived, I performed a number of tests to see how well it detects hidden gold objects, and also a few other objects that it is intended to detect. The result was that I got no response at all. Not a treasure response or non-treasure response. I also tried this with a gold ring buried 2 inches in the ground where I knew the location of the ring, and got no response at all.
At this time I concluded that I got no response from hidden targets, or from known targets. This made me think the ideamotor response was not working for me, and non-ideamotor response was also not working for me. I wondered why not. After reading a lot of Rangertell literature and reading a lot of skeptic posts and LRL enthusiast posts in Geotech, I thought there are only three likely possibilities that I know of:
1). I am biologically impaired due to nerve damage in my right arm that prevents the Examiner from working.
2). I am holding a defective Examiner.
3). The Examiner doesn't work for finding hidden metals.

But I had no way to test to see what is the answer if I am the only person performing a test. So I made more posts in the Geotech forum. I invited others to try out the Examiner and see if it works for them whenever I had a chance. But nobody responded... not even the members I know live in the area,
Next, I called nearby acquaintances who were willing to try it out. We did the same experiments I tried, burying a gold ring 2 inches under the ground where they knew the location, and also repeated the test when they did not know the location. The results showed that nobody was able to reliably detect the location of the unknown gold location. In cases where the person holding the Deluxe Examiner knew the location of the gold, I saw they found a good response, maybe up to 1/3 of the time on average. (Note: this is different than the response I got when I knew the location of the buried ring. I got no good response at all).

These were preliminary tests to see what the Deluxe Examiner does. I did not perform a scientific test, because the preliminary tests showed that I could not establish a base line to use as a control that is necessary for a scientific test. What this all means in layman's language is the Examiner I tried did not perform well enough to qualify for a scientific test.

After seeing the results I got up to this point, I figured my best hope of seeing some good performance would be to find someone who is experienced with the examiner to demonstrate it working and to show the correct technique to use it. So I made more posts in the Geotech forum, and sent emails to forum owners to see if there was anyone interested in demonstrating the Examiner working. Again, I found nobody was interested.

At this point, I figured there would be nobody to show me it working in the field. But there are still more tests I can conduct. I can run electronic tests, and compare the signals I read to the signals I recorded from the previous Examiner TG model (These two models are identical, except the Deluxe model has an extra ground probe).

So I ran some simple electronic tests. I found that the Rangertell claim that the calculator sends out a signal is true. I measured the signal from the calculator and I took photos of the waveform from an oscilloscope. I also measured these same signals transferred to the internal parts of the Examiner, which I measured with a probe on the antenna, and on the metal rod at the center of the handle. This made me think the weak signal coming from the calculator was being transferred to the internal circuitry of the Examiner. Of course, I could lie and pretend I did not see any calculator signal in the calculator, but I won't do that. The fact is The calculator signal can be seen by connecting an oscilloscope to the Examiner antenna and the ground to the metal support for the handle.

I also noticed the calculator signal from the Deluxe Examiner was noticeably weaker than the signal I photographed from the TG model, I wondered why. When I looked closer, it became apparent the TG model uses a two cell battery that produces about 3 volts, while the Deluxe model uses a solar panel for power that delivers about half the voltage. This seemed to answer the question why the weaker signal. But It made me wonder: Wouldn't the Deluxe model be expected to have a stronger calculator signal? I don't know the answer to that. I suppose the extra functions, and the fact the Deluxe model has a calculator that does not auto-shut off every few minutes is the reason it uses the TI calculator, even if it sends a weaker signal.

Next, I began measuring signals from the ground probe. This is a plastic box with a metal rod you push in the ground, and connect the attached audio cable to your laptop computer. I connected it to my home desktop computer and ran a long extension cable to the back yard where I stuck the probe in the ground. I took a Fluke digital voltmeter to check what was coming out of this probe. Keep in mind, there is an audio tone generator application included with the Deluxe Examiner to install in your computer that will send an audio tone out to the probe from your speaker jack on the computer. So I installed this audio tone generator on my home PC so I could select a frequency 0-20Khz, and loudness level up to the limit of the computer sound amplifier. Then I checked to see what was coming out. The oscilloscope photos showed I was getting a good sine wave from the speaker jack that responded perfectly to frequency adjustments I made at the keyboard and mouse. The meter also showed the frequency and amplitude were responding perfectly. So I made tests by pushing a stiff copper wire about an inch in the ground near the Examiner probe. I was able to detect the same audio frequency up to several inches depending on the soil moisture content. In dry soil, I could detect nothing at 2 inches away from the ground probe, but in saturated wet soil I got a clear signal that diminished with distance. I could detect no signal at 1 foot distance from the ground probe in wet soil. (Keep in mind this is not a scientific test, as I did not send a sample of this soil to a laboratory for analysis to determine the soil constituents, or the exact moisture content, or the compaction ratio of the soil sample where the probe was placed).

Next I made a number of tests where I buried a gold ring 2 inches in the ground at various locations in relation to the ground probe. I then used instruments to detect any signal in a line between the ground probe and the buried ring. I took measurements in the air, as well as by pushing a stiff copper wire in the ground. I sampled locations in the ground and the air in the direct line between the probe and buried ring, and I also took samples away from that line to see what differences I could find.

But wait.... Now I am drifting off onto signal lines. I already made my report on the the Examiner testing!
And that is the report you said you wanted to read before you give your answer to my question about what test of Geo's dowsing performance you conducted.
So let's hear what you have to report about your testing of Geo's dowsing abilities.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Hi J_P

Regarding your 1. quote:
It was posted to Geo, but anyway. You need to read my first statement (post #56) again:

»To this day he cannot find nothing by his dovsing rod (read his posts back).«

Can you see this: »read his posts back« (Geo posted over 2500 posts)? Geo is, according his own words, in searching for a big »known« treasure buried on aproksimately known location. He stated in his posts, not only once, that he cannot find by his different dowsing apparatus (not only by D-rod, but by mineoro like too) nothing worth. No big treasure: not from vicinity - nor from remote distance. Not even small real treasure. Nothing. I simply summarize his own statements.

His dowsing guru teacher do so the same: nothing (except findings buried by his own, to show to naive what guru can). My claim. I am willing to prove this claim if his teacher are willing to undergone real test of his dowsing capabilities. Here is my ofer to those dowsing guru, if he win real test: 1000 euro in duty free cash + gold target + my excuse. I am prepared to carry out such test under fully controled condition, mean at first on my terrain (essential to prevent tricks). Waiting for guru answer.

Regarding your 2. quote:

It was addressed only to Geo (again: read again), but there is no problem to say, that I highly respect your extraordinary knowledge too, sincerely (!), but I do not respect surfactants way on how you test RangerTells crappy and expensive toy.

Regarding your 3. quote:

Nice! I am waiting respectfully on your Examiner final Test report (maybe better to say: we all are waiting).

Best wishes to you too

[J_Player]

Hi J_P

Regarding your 1. quote:
It was posted to Geo, but anyway. You need to read my first statement (post #56) again:

»To this day he cannot find nothing by his dovsing rod (read his posts back).«

Can you see this: »read his posts back«? Geo is, according his own words, in searching for a big »known« treasure buried on aproksimately known location. He stated in his posts, not only once, that he cannot find by his different dowsing apparatus (not only by D-rod, but by mineoro like too) nothing worth. No big treasure: not from vicinity - nor from remote distance. I simply summarize his own statements.

Regarding your 2. quote:

It was addressed only to Geo (again: read again), but there is no problem to say, that I highly respect your extraordinary knowledge too, sincerely (!), but I do not respect surfactants way on how you test RangerTells crappy and expensive toy.

Regarding your 3. quote:

Nice! I am waiting respectfully on your Examiner final Test report (maybe better to say: we all are waiting).

Best wishes to you too
What is this?
The WM6 tap dance to disguise the fact that you conducted no tests at all to support your claims about Geo's dowsing?

:nono: :nono: :nono:

All you have is hearsay evidence that you read in the forum, and no real testing?

And you want to pass this off as skeptical facts? :nono: :nono: :nono:

You are an experienced and talented electronic experimenter, capable of building excellent circuity and equipment that works according to the principles of real science. Furthermore, you are knowledgeable of many obscure details of applied RF propagation which few treasure hunters have any clue of. This alone makes classifies you to be better qualified than most of us for building certain types of RF detection equipment.

But then we look at your unfounded claims of what you determine to be facts about non-electronic topics, and we see you have discarded all the disciplines that are required to achieve the excellence you have attained in the sciences. How is it that you are satisfied to accept forum posts to be facts without first checking to see if your what you are posting for the world to read are indeed facts, or simply something you read?

Aren't you using the same method that LRL lovers use to determine they have the correct idea? You simply read your selectively filtered assortment of forum posts and movie segments, then post it to be the truth, without checking it to see for yourself if it is true or not. Then you post it to be a fact? :nono:

Did you ever consider that there are some skeptics who are sincere, and do not want to be associated with people who make statements as facts which have not been checked to determine if the source is factual or not?

We see some LRL enthusiasts make claims that model X LRL really finds treasure because the great guru of LRL says it does. And model Y does not work as well because his cousin says it does not. What does this mean? NOTHING!!

It is a bunch of hearsay stuff they read in some forum or email and want us to believe. The stuff you are passing off as facts is the same hearsay BS that you never tested for yourself to see if it is right or not. If you want to make posts to say Geo never found nothing, then go visit Geo, and watch what he does so you can see with your own eyes that he finds nothing. Then you will have a good basis to say he finds nothing because you will know from watching him instead of reading some forum posts where one occasion or more he made some post that helps to illustrate the propaganda that you are posting as if it were a fact rather than something you actually know.

There are some people who are skeptical of LRLs and dowsing who do not want to be associated with people who publish their opinions as if they are facts, when all they really have to back up their claim is some forum posts they read.

It is nice that you are waiting respectfully on my Examiner final Test report. But after seeing what you have to offer to support how you know Geo "never found nothing", I feel like I got cheated. It looks to me like you never ran any test at all on the performance of Geo's dowsing performance. So I got burned for thinking you would produce something substantial besides forum posts you read. No big deal.

I have already published a lot of more information on the Examiner than you can read in the Geotech forum. The testing is not complete yet, and there are two more test phases coming that involve people all over the world. I will publish the results here when I feel it is an appropriate time. But don't ever try to trick me into trading my testing results for what you do to determine "facts", because that trick won't work a second time.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Hi J_P

I repeat sentence falling out of your citation, fo possible blindness of blind believers:

"His dowsing guru teacher do so the same: nothing (except findings buried by his own, to show to naive what guru can). My claim. I am willing to prove this claim if his teacher are willing to undergone real test of his dowsing capabilities. Here is my ofer to those dowsing guru, if he win real test: 1000 euro in duty free cash + gold target + my excuse. I am prepared to carry out such test under fully controled condition, mean at first on my terrain (essential to prevent tricks). Waiting for guru answer."

[J_Player]

Hi J_P

I repeat sentence falling out of your citation, fo possible blindness of blind believers:

"His dowsing guru teacher do so the same: nothing (except findings buried by his own, to show to naive what guru can). My claim. I am willing to prove this claim if his teacher are willing to undergone real test of his dowsing capabilities. Here is my ofer to those dowsing guru, if he win real test: 1000 euro in duty free cash + gold target + my excuse. I am prepared to carry out such test under fully controled condition, mean at first on my terrain (essential to prevent tricks). Waiting for guru answer."An offer to conduct a test is in no way the same as providing test data to substantiate a claim. It is an indication that you may not have any test data. Considering the condition where you have no test data, this seems like a good approach to get some data. I have made several similar offers, but without any cash prizes for years. I also found that nobody was interested in demonstrating a long range locator recovering treasure in tests where skeptical witnesses are watching.

Your test has a 1000 euro prize, which makes it attractive to people who really can dowse. If I was convinced that I am a good dowser and not very far distance from your test ground, I would be interested in getting an extra 1000 euros to help pay for a new PulseStar detector. But I would also want to bring some friends to watch the test and make videos to be sure there are no tricks, and to verify what happens during the test. If those conditions existed, then I would be happy to win 1000 euros for demonstrating how I can dowse (which I can't).

In Geo's case, his travel expenses would be much more than any prize money he could win. I doubt he would accept this offer because it would cost him money to make tests for you instead of stay home and spend his time treasure hunting. Maybe if you set your test ground near where Geo is located, he will consider showing you his dowsing abilities.

Keep in mind, the fact that nobody has accepted your generous test offer does not prove that you posted facts about Geo's dowsing performance.
It appears you never observed Geo's dowsing performance, and do not know what he finds and does not find. Your claims were opinions, not facts.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

It appears you never observed Geo's dowsing performance, and do not know what he finds and does not find. Your claims were opinions, not facts.

Best wishes,
J_P

Are you blind or LRL blinded? Read again:

"Regarding your 1. quote:
It was posted to Geo, but anyway. You need to read my first statement (post #56) again:

»To this day he cannot find nothing by his dovsing rod (read his posts back).«

Can you see this: »read his posts back«? Geo is, according his own words, in searching for a big »known« treasure buried on aproksimately known location. He stated in his posts, not only once, that he cannot find by his different dowsing apparatus (not only by D-rod, but by mineoro like too) nothing worth. No big treasure: not from vicinity - nor from remote distance. I simply summarize his own statements."
-------******--------
Regarding test.
Watching and making videos are unlimited aloved (outside testing terrain to not to disturb sensistive dowser's)at least in my case. At the request of the dowser audience may be restricted too. It is about 1111 km distance by car, so one day "veni-vidi-vici" for good dowser. According my car consumption (Clio-Diesel, 80HP) of about 4l/100km, mean total about 100 euro for fuel, which I am willing to cover for winning dowser (looser travel on costs of its own). Picnic launch (prepared from me - near greek art) for three guests is free in all cases, no matter if dowsing fail or win. Fair enough?

[J_Player]

Are you blind or LRL blinded? Read again:

"Regarding your 1. quote:
It was posted to Geo, but anyway. You need to read my first statement (post #56) again:

»To this day he cannot find nothing by his dovsing rod (read his posts back).«

Can you see this: »read his posts back«? Geo is, according his own words, in searching for a big »known« treasure buried on aproksimately known location. He stated in his posts, not only once, that he cannot find by his different dowsing apparatus (not only by D-rod, but by mineoro like too) nothing worth. No big treasure: not from vicinity - nor from remote distance. I simply summarize his own statements."
-------******--------
Regarding test.
Watching and making videos are unlimited aloved (outside testing terrain to not to disturb sensistive dowser's)at least in my case. At the request of the dowser audience may be restricted too. It is about 1111 km distance by car, so one day "veni-vidi-vici" for good dowser. According my car consumption (Clio-Diesel, 80HP) of about 4l/100km, mean total about 100 euro for fuel, which I am willing to cover for winning dowser (looser travel on costs of its own). Picnic launch (prepared from me - near greek art) for three guests is free in all cases, no matter if dowsing fail or win. Fair enough?No, I am not blinded.
You are again repeating your hearsay evidence. You want me to believe you know actual facts about Geo's dowsing performance, when all you have is selected posts you read in the forum to support your opinions. You have no facts at all, because you made no observations or tests at all for Geo's dowsing performance. Without making observations of his dowsing, you cannot possibly know the results of his dowsing. You can only read forum posts about it, and pretend this qualifies you to know the facts.

But guess what? You only selected a couple of the forum posts to establish what your idea of the facts are. Suppose you were to read more of Geo's posts. Do you think you would find any of them which are not good evidence to help you pretend you know all facts about it?

From what you showed, you never made any observation of Geo's dowsing, and have never watched to see the results of what he found or did not find. The best you can do is to look through forum posts until you find something that helps you to trick people into thinking you have some basis to make posts as if you actually know what his dowsing abilitiy is. You can scroll back, and you will see this trick won't work on me a second time. I already saw what you had to offer in trade for some real tests I conducted. This makes me wonder if you really intend to perform any actual tests of Geo's ability to dowse. How can we know you will really be there to perform tests and give prize money if he travels to your test field?

For the record, I don't believe the cost of traveling to your test field is only 100 euro. I believe there are additional costs related to loss of work if driving, airfare if flying, lodging, meals, etc. that will total more than the prize you are offering. But maybe what I believe is wrong. If this is the case, then I suggest you spend the 100 euros that you believe is the cost of traveling to go to a location near Geo and set up your test field. If you deduct your 100 euro travel cost, you will still have 900 euros remaining for prize money. Maybe Geo will be interested to try your test for 900 euro prize if the test field is near to him.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi!!!
I am not interesting for money!!!!!!!!!!
I will try to have free time on September, so WM6 to come here for test.
WM6 is welcome to Greece!!
I will try to communicate with my friend (teacher) and with another dowser so wm6 to see some things about dowsing.
I am not interesting to proof that dowsing is working!!! (i am sure for it).
I want to show that all who i say are true.
Also WM6 will see all my LRLs

Regards:)

[J_Player]

Hi!!!
I am not interesting for money!!!!!!!!!!
I will try to have free time on September, so WM6 to come here for test.
WM6 is welcome to Greece!!
I will try to communicate with my friend (teacher) and with another dowser so wm6 to see some things about dowsing.
I am not interesting to proof that dowsing is working!!! (i am sure for it).
I want to show that all who i say are true.
Also WM6 will see all my LRLs

Regards:)Hi Geo,
This is really cool! :thumb:

There are a lot of people who will like to see videos of you and your friends dowsing when WM6 is there to watch the demonstration.
We will be waiting to see what happens. Be sure your friends make many videos so we can see how the dowsing works.
It will be also good to see the videos that show all of your LRLs too. :)

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[WM6]

Hi!!!
I am not interesting for money!!!!!!!!!!
I will try to have free time on September, so WM6 to come here for test.
WM6 is welcome to Greece!!
I will try to communicate with my friend (teacher) and with another dowser so wm6 to see some things about dowsing.
I am not interesting to proof that dowsing is working!!! (i am sure for it).
I want to show that all who i say are true.
Also WM6 will see all my LRLs

Regards:)

Interesting proposal, dear Geo.

I am not retired yet and september is otherwise out of my annual leave, but it is not excluded to obtain small additional holyday. Dowsing or not, for me it would be very interesting to meet esteemed TH colleague and excellent MD designer Geo and some of his friends.

Regarding dowsing test, Greece is not my terrain and I cannot prepare adequate field test condition to be scientifically valid. I may be present at such field test, no problem, but just as valid test can not be considered (I do not believe in tests, in which the same person hides and finds the target).

Of course I am very interested in dowsing test: like the implementation in sort of "Randy" test, and I can make all arrangements needed for such test (say 8 visually equal boxes one of those with gold target):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOsCnX-TKIY

I hope your teacher are willing to undergone such test (video inclusive).

I would wonder, if I could on the way to Greece to join our common dear friend ivconic.

[Funfinder]

@ J_Player & WM6

You forgot about the hartmann rays, the curie net and water veins. :rolleyes: :| :shocked:

It is very doubtful that dowsers can switch mentally from detection of water to special rays, to metal and even to lost persons.
What they are doing if it really works is called ASW or paranormal sensitive recognition. btw. most of the dowsers won't offer their services in finding metal objects but for telling you that your bed is on the wrong position because (for shure, for those who believe in this stuff...) it is directly above a water vein or an evil and sick making hartmann location! This is very practical because nobody will or can prove it! :nono: :frown: :angry:

I don't believe them - it's almost the same as Feng Shui, but this at least has some philosophical aspect.

The only real danger is if your bed or working place is very close to stong power cables because of the strong electromagnetic pulses, but even this depends on the person - there also exists alot of "radiation junkies", hanging day and night before the monitor or tv and really feeling great and energized! :lol::D



btw. the PD is no dowsing device at all so we should focus back on the pure technical aspects.



> Morgan wrote
Hi Geo

This is very strange. With PD i always catch the gold and silver the same as the aluminium.
I can see the Alonso PD is something very problematic for clonage and to make balance for correct detection of precious metals,to many secrets...

Regards

What secrets? We have to bring some light into this PD if we want make improvements or understanding the whole principle behind. This cannot be so complicated! :)




I was wondering when someone would comment on that. :oh:

During the back-engineering of Alonso's PD there were several people involved, and yes ... I drew the final schematic. There were a few clones built of the device, but I do not believe that any of them were able to detect at long distance. Many of the cloners are still experimenting, so you will have to ask them if there were any positive results.

The TR part of the design is a direct copy of a Heathkit GD348, but with a smaller coil. The most interesting part is the ferrite circuit and its interaction with the omega coil. How this is supposed to provide any long-range detection is anybody's guess, but you are welcome to try for yourself.

Interesting answer! How long is the range of the original Heathkit GD348 and how is the range now with the ferrite?

I guess the solution is pretty simple:

The ferrite coils work as very directive magnetic pulses receiver and recognise the difference of the usual field. The heathkit circuit works as strong transmitter only - for feeding the surrounding area with electromagnet waves.

Perhaps there is some phase-shifting recognition involved for detecting special metals (or non-iron) only and the problem Geo now has with "alu only" is based on this issue.

Like those little wire searches the ferrite receiver analyses the coil inductance around 100kHz (or 60) (long wave) but does not transmit them. The 2 different windings on the ferrite seem to be used for the phase shift recognition.

What we need to know is how the magnetic pulses, coming from the radiated metal, looks like and what geografical position they have. Because we know already that the magnetic coils work perfektly accurate with minimum bearing i.e. finding very directional where the lowest radiation level is.

The omega coil also is magnetic design (as all coils) and works directional and the ferrite lies directly in a center behind it.

Because those are very near the only solution would be that one of these coils receive something if the EM-waves hit the metal or one of them changes the inductivity - but because of the large distance I guess only the ferrite antenna could be affected of this.

btw.:
Can we completly exclude there is any electrostatic involved in the PD-circuit? Someone said it uses ionic detection... whatever that means.

Did really Alonso of Mineoro did develop and invent this PD and what is the reason he never produced and offered it? 'Cause especially in Europe it seems to work much better than all of the other Mineoro devices!

[WM6]

btw. most of the dowsers won't offer their services in finding metal objects but for telling you that your bed is on the wrong position because (for shure, for those who believe in this stuff...) it is directly above a water vein or an evil and sick making hartmann location! This is very practical because nobody will or can prove it! :nono: :frown: :angry:



Funny thing is that, for any dowser, your bed shown to him will never be in the right place, but always in the wrong position.

So if you try with more dowser none of them would agree with the bed position set by its predecessor.

Even more, if, after time, other family member (who is never seen by dowser), hire the same dowser, the master move the same bed again.

Proven.



btw. the PD is no dowsing device at all so we should focus back on the pure technical aspects.



Your mobile or calculator or watch or GPS or e-compass is not dowsing device too, but can be used by dowser as hi-tech dowsing apparatus to impress naive buyers.

Simple wooden dowsing rod cannot be sold for $1.000, so fraudsters need to upgrade his snake-oil to electronic.

[hung]

Did really Alonso of Mineoro did develop and invent this PD and what is the reason he never produced and offered it? 'Cause especially in Europe it seems to work much better than all of the other Mineoro devices!

The PD was a prototype for the FG80 tyon and FG90. The PD Morgan owns still detect aluminum and other metals, altough it detects gold.

Later Alonso developed another PD which is inside the current new DCH85 with some enhancements I think. This unit only gets silver and gold.
I will be testing one in a few days. Most likely I will take it to that site in the video.

Actually the PDs including the DCH have a lower range than the FGs. The FGs have a different antenna concept and higher amplification.
This concept was developed and invented by Damasio upon Alonso's own devices. They met in 1959 and had been working eversince until Damasio's deceasing last year. Alonso now is taking care of the LRL department along with Mineoro's top engineers.

The working frequencies among the devices slightly differ, but the claim that the Mineoros do not work well in Europe is erroneous and misleading.
Just because some of the users here still have not found or dug a target identified by the device does not mean whatsoever that the detector is faulty or do not work well over there. It might mean a lot of things such as: there is no treasure where previously thought, target is too small to be precisely detected, which leads to bad ionic conditions at the location due improper time of day, weather, humidity, improper calibration, etc. and etc. and etc.
All and all it deserves further investigation. Again bear in mind that Mineoro's site features recoveries from a lot of people from different countries and regions. Just luck? I don't think so.

Tomorrow, if one of the users here happen to find a target with a Mineoro, will it mean that all of a sudden the machine started to work in Europe?

See what I mean?

[gibon]

The PD was a prototype for the FG80 tyon and FG90. The PD Morgan owns still detect aluminum and other metals, altough it detects gold.

Later Alonso developed another PD which is inside the current new DCH85 with some enhancements I think. This unit only gets silver and gold.
I will be testing one in a few days. Most likely I will take it to that site in the video.

Actually the PDs including the DCH have a lower range than the FGs. The FGs have a different antenna concept and higher amplification.
This concept was developed and invented by Damasio upon Alonso's own devices. They met in 1959 and had been working eversince until Damasio's deceasing last year. Alonso now is taking care of the LRL department along with Mineoro's top engineers.

The working frequencies among the devices slightly differ, but the claim that the Mineoros do not work well in Europe is erroneous and misleading.
Just because some of the users here still have not found or dug a target identified by the device does not mean whatsoever that the detector is faulty or do not work well over there. It might mean a lot of things such as: there is no treasure where previously thought, target is too small to be precisely detected, which leads to bad ionic conditions at the location due improper time of day, weather, humidity, improper calibration, etc. and etc. and etc.
All and all it deserves further investigation. Again bear in mind that Mineoro's site features recoveries from a lot of people from different countries and regions. Just luck? I don't think so.

Tomorrow, if one of the users here happen to find a target with a Mineoro, will it mean that all of a sudden the machine started to work in Europe?

See what I mean?


For sure you will !! :D

[WM6]

The working frequencies among the devices slightly differ, but the claim that the Mineoros do not work well in Europe is erroneous and misleading.



Hi Hung,

such claim (in fact excuse why mineoro craps is not working) lead source from mineoro staf itself not from user. So you dispute mineoro or yourself (as usual). Read user reports here on Geotech.

[ANDREAS]

The PD was a prototype for the FG80 tyon and FG90. The PD Morgan owns still detect aluminum and other metals, altough it detects gold................. All and all it deserves further investigation. Again bear in mind that Mineoro's site features recoveries from a lot of people from different countries and regions. Just luck? I don't think so..............
Tomorrow, if one of the users here happen to find a target with a Mineoro, will it mean that all of a sudden the machine started to work in Europe?

See what I mean?
O.K Hung. I have a PDC210 and now is ready with full mods. TV screen, can detect up 5meters distance without false signals from North-lines etc.
My house is very near Archeology area with many-many olds buried silver-gold coins. Do you want.. know if mineoro work or not? No problems
Everyday for one months morning, afternoon, night i go for tests with mineoro (distance this archeology area only 200meters for my house).
If work .. after one month we can know. This is a big test. Wait news.

[hung]

Hello Andreas, nice talking to you again.

O.K Hung. I have a PDC210 and now is ready with full mods.

You mean, you opened the device and modified it? Why did you need to do this? Also what kind of mods did you do?

My house is very near Archeology area with many-many olds buried silver-gold coins. Do you want.. know if mineoro work or not? No problems
Everyday for one months morning, afternoon, night i go for tests with mineoro (distance this archeology area only 200meters for my house).
If work .. after one month we can know. This is a big test. Wait news.The PDC altough excelent for long range detection, is troublesome to pinpoint small targets such as coins. If they are spread, when you are over the exact point and it the coins happen to be spread in the ground, the fields interact and is very difficult to pinpoint them one by one. The PDC features a microcontroler and its architecture did not allow reducing gain and still get the signal. This does not happen with the FG architecture. If doing this with the PDC the signal is lost.
My friend Celi, detected more than 20 gold coins with the PDC but when exactly over the target, he could not pinpoint them. He had to use his MP10 to do it.
But from long range the fields sum up and you get directional beeps.

Yeah, I would like to know about your tests results. Please shoot a video so that I can see what is going on.
Thanks.

[ANDREAS]

You mean, you opened the device and modified it? Why did you need to do this? Also what kind of mods did you do?
You know well, i have not problem open device and modified it
The PDC altough excelent for long range detection, is troublesome to pinpoint small targets such as coins.
I know that.. but in this case i want.... only beeeeeeeeeeeeps
The PDC features a microcontroler and its architecture did not allow reducing gain and still get the signal. This does not happen with the FG architecture. If doing this with the PDC the signal is lost.
Microcontroler use only make a wave 10HZ and make put beeps alarm. Here we have not magic tip, only a low cost tip.:D
　My friend Celi, detected more than 20 gold coins with the PDC but when exactly over the target, he could not pinpoint them.
After one month, if work or not i know well. But.... why i am afraid don't work
He had to use his MP10 to do it.
My monster 2-box is better for MP10

Hung
I begin this test for all members here,if work mineoro devices or not.
For me is lost time, but a very interest experiment.
I think is time we know if mineoro LRL are true machines or not. I am not interest make a video for this. If work I present here, if not.. I present here too.
I start tomorrow morning
Regards

[gibon]

You mean, you opened the device and modified it? Why did you need to do this? Also what kind of mods did you do?
You know well, i have not problem open device and modified it
The PDC altough excelent for long range detection, is troublesome to pinpoint small targets such as coins.
I know that.. but in this case i want.... only beeeeeeeeeeeeps
The PDC features a microcontroler and its architecture did not allow reducing gain and still get the signal. This does not happen with the FG architecture. If doing this with the PDC the signal is lost.
Microcontroler use only make a wave 10HZ and make put beeps alarm. Here we have not magic tip, only a low cost tip.:D
　My friend Celi, detected more than 20 gold coins with the PDC but when exactly over the target, he could not pinpoint them.
After one month, if work or not i know well. But.... why i am afraid don't work
He had to use his MP10 to do it.
My monster 2-box is better for MP10

Hung
I begin this test for all members here,if work mineoro devices or not.
For me is lost time, but a very interest experiment.
I think is time we know if mineoro LRL are true machines or not. I am not interest make a video for this. If work I present here, if not.. I present here too.
I start tomorrow morning
Regards



So the TRUTH shall come soon :D !!!!!

[detectoman]

gshsnnnnn after 12 years of me in this site, i await an true lrl video

[Fred]

gshsnnnnn after 12 years of me in this site, i await an true lrl video

12 year waiting ??!! want a video ?

13041



:lol::lol:

(sorry admin, feel free to delete :) )

[J_Player]

You mean, you opened the device and modified it? Why did you need to do this? Also what kind of mods did you do?
You know well, i have not problem open device and modified it
The PDC altough excelent for long range detection, is troublesome to pinpoint small targets such as coins.
I know that.. but in this case i want.... only beeeeeeeeeeeeps
The PDC features a microcontroler and its architecture did not allow reducing gain and still get the signal. This does not happen with the FG architecture. If doing this with the PDC the signal is lost.
Microcontroler use only make a wave 10HZ and make put beeps alarm. Here we have not magic tip, only a low cost tip.:D
　My friend Celi, detected more than 20 gold coins with the PDC but when exactly over the target, he could not pinpoint them.
After one month, if work or not i know well. But.... why i am afraid don't work
He had to use his MP10 to do it.
My monster 2-box is better for MP10

Hung
I begin this test for all members here,if work mineoro devices or not.
For me is lost time, but a very interest experiment.
I think is time we know if mineoro LRL are true machines or not. I am not interest make a video for this. If work I present here, if not.. I present here too.
I start tomorrow morning
Regards
Hi Andreas,
Yes, we are ready to see the results of a real test to see what Mineoro finds in Greece.
Please proceed with your test and show results here!

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Interesting proposal, dear Geo.

I am not retired yet and september is otherwise out of my annual leave, but it is not excluded to obtain small additional holyday. Dowsing or not, for me it would be very interesting to meet esteemed TH colleague and excellent MD designer Geo and some of his friends.

Regarding dowsing test, Greece is not my terrain and I cannot prepare adequate field test condition to be scientifically valid. I may be present at such field test, no problem, but just as valid test can not be considered (I do not believe in tests, in which the same person hides and finds the target).

Of course I am very interested in dowsing test: like the implementation in sort of "Randy" test, and I can make all arrangements needed for such test (say 8 visually equal boxes one of those with gold target):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOsCnX-TKIY

I hope your teacher are willing to undergone such test (video inclusive).

I would wonder, if I could on the way to Greece to join our common dear friend ivconic.


Hi WM6.
Now i try to finish my work so to go for holidays (the second on this year, one week for fishing and another week to an island). When i will come back i will write to you for details.
About Ivica..... NO.
Ivica told "bad words about me so i don't like him"

Regards:)

[WM6]

Hi WM6.
Now i try to finish my work so to go for holidays (the second on this year, one week for fishing and another week to an island). When i will come back i will write to you for details.
About Ivica..... NO.
Ivica told "bad words about me so i don't like him"

Regards:)

Good Leo,

waiting for your report on holidays success, hope some interestning findings too.

My opinion about "bad words": those was only momental bad hormones - nothing fatal, but I respect your feelings.

Regards and happy hollidays.

[Funfinder]

Very good, another offer for a serious test.
btw. gibon, what's with your tests? Already demotivated?

I have a very good idea for a test:

First search with an usual md until you find a non iron object. Film it. Now try if the Mineoro also detects it from a little distance. Also film this and now dig it out, also while filming.

This way would be shure that the Mineoro really finds something and now PLEASE no one tells that the MD destroys the "special aura" of this buried object so the Mineoro cannot be used on areas where usual MDs searched shorter or longer time before.

btw. Is there a minimum distance you have to be away from streets, houses or power lines for the Mineoro?

Is it possible wearing a cell phone and using a normal metal detector the same time? All these factors have to be shure known for successful work!

And very important:
Is there a minimum distance you have to hold the Mineoro above the ground or a limited range?

[ANDREAS]

Very good, another offer for a serious test.
btw. gibon, what's with your tests? Already demotivated?
I have a very good idea for a test:..........................................
..................................... And very important:
Is there a minimum distance you have to hold the Mineoro above the ground or a limited range?
Hi Funfinder
Very interest your method for a fine test, but i have here one big problem
I can use a archeology area (see pic) only with my feet.. without MD. I have a area without make from archeology service holes and there are many-many old buried treasures. I am now 52 years old man , it's fine for me make everyday gym in this area and together make tests with mineoro device (only tests). Today morning i make one hour gym and half hour test with mineoro.
I have ,only three beeps, but i don't know yet, if this beeps are false or true. This afternoon i go again for gym and test again this beeps. I have one months for full test and a big archeology area. If i have real targets, I believe have experience occupy .. if work real mineoro device, after some days test.
best regards

[WM6]

I have a very good idea for a test:

First search with an usual md until you find a non iron object. Film it. Now try if the Mineoro also detects it from a little distance. Also film this and now dig it out, also while filming.



Hi Funfinder,

your test proposal mean that we maintain with known target position. The same unacceptable thing as in case of target buried by dowser.

Your proposal can be acceptable only in case that target position is not known to dowser at all, even for near participants in the test. All bypass options must be excluded, including target positioning through involuntary facial mimics of participants.

Mineoro must to find unknown target at (for dowser) unknown position or all such test has no sense for serious consideration.

[hung]

You know well, i have not problem open device and modified it
Did I say anything that opening the device is a problem?
The problem relies in the fact that once you modify it, it might not be the original machine anymore , but something else.

I really would like to know how an original machine behaves there. Once you modify it, all standards are lost.
We also modified a PDC. It was a PDC2005. It's much more sensitive now even for small objects. Has even more range. Does is still make a PDC2005? Probably not, altough the changes were not major ones.

If I somehow had a chance to modify one of your devices, would it still be an Andreas device? No, it wouldn't.

The reason I asked you to shoot a video, was with the purpose to see how the PDC210 behaves there, specially in Greece as you and some european users claim it does not.
With images, I could try to understand what would be hapening up there.
Once you modified the machine to an unkown extent and also denies shooting a video, I remain here as I was about 5 years ago...
Still not able to 'see' what is going on.
My monster 2-box is better for MP10Maybe. I am not doubting it.
But I would really like to see your 2box detecting a long time buried pot of cold coins from 360 feet away.
And more recently, a box of gold and jewels from 120 feet away.

Show me.


I begin this test for all members here,if work mineoro devices or not.
For me is lost time, but a very interest experiment.
If it's a lost time, why bothering come back here to state again that the machine do not work in your region? You already did!

But still, it might not be a PDC anymore as I may never know what mod you did to the point of turning it into something else.

Your first sentence in your quote is misleading.
The Mineoro machines do work and it is just silly thinking otherwise.
What needs to be investigated is how effective they work in relation to other regions.

What I would really like to know is what exactly the problems are, some users complain about.
Watching a video would really help a lot.
Right now I only have Morgan's DC2008 video reacting to his buried gold medal and his report that his friends found gold with the DC2008 and DC2006. But no details and nothing else.

The main point in this discussion would be investigating the possibility that some users in this forum might not get the same results I, Esteban and Alonso and several others do in South America, IF this possibility exists.
And IF it exists, a video would be a good starting point.

Hopefuly some user will post a video.

[gibon]

Hi Funfinder
Very interest your method for a fine test, but i have here one big problem
I can use a archeology area (see pic) only with my feet.. without MD. I have a area without make from archeology service holes and there are many-many old buried treasures. I am now 52 years old man , it's fine for me make everyday gym in this area and together make tests with mineoro device (only tests). Today morning i make one hour gym and half hour test with mineoro.
I have ,only three beeps, but i don't know yet, if this beeps are false or true. This afternoon i go again for gym and test again this beeps. I have one months for full test and a big archeology area. If i have real targets, I believe have experience occupy ..if work real mineoro device, after some days test.
best regards



Very Very Nice Place !! :thumb:

I'm sure if you dig police shall come Straight away !! :nono:

[ANDREAS]

Did I say anything that opening the device is a problem?.........................
The main point in this discussion would be investigating the possibility that some users in this forum might not get the same results I, Esteban and Alonso and several others do in South America, IF this possibility exists.
And IF it exists, a video would be a good starting point.

Hopefuly some user will post a video.
Hung, i want you know something. I have this PDC some years from a friend. Original without open, without crack etc. Original detect TV screen maximum distance 1meter.
Of course i make test with this machine same archeology area .. but without results. Nothing, nothing, nothing.:nono::nono::nono: I calibrate very-very critical all pots, but ... nothing.
After this, because i know well inside schematic-pcb mineoro device i open device and i make some critical mods. In this case in my laboratory machine work perfect.
TV screen can detect up 5meters distance. A car run (out city) can detect up 200meters distance. High voltage cables can detect up 300meters distance, without false signals.
Perfect machine for this applications:D. But the target is.. old buried metals.:rolleyes:. In this case I don't want excuses, because I made mods. Original mineoro device don't work.With my delicate mods work in practice or not? If don't work now in real archeology area, sorry my friend.. but is a crap. I go from afternoon gym and of course new test
regards

[hung]

Hung, i want you know something. I have this PDC some years from a friend. Original without open, without crack etc. Original detect TV screen maximum distance 1meter.
Of course i make test with this machine same archeology area .. but without results. Nothing, nothing, nothing.:nono::nono::nono: I calibrate very-very critical all pots, but ... nothing.
After this, because i know well inside schematic-pcb mineoro device i open device and i make some critical mods. In this case in my laboratory machine work perfect.
TV screen can detect up 5meters distance. A car run (out city) can detect up 200meters distance. High voltage cables can detect up 300meters distance, without false signals.
Perfect machine for this applications:D. But the target is.. old buried metals.:rolleyes:. In this case I don't want excuses, because I made mods. Original mineoro device don't work.With my delicate mods work in practice or not? If don't work now in real archeology area, sorry my friend.. but is a crap. I go from afternoon gym and of course new test
regards

There are two important points in your information.

First, you claim the original device did not detect in your arquelology area. I presume you mean it did not beep even with edge calibration.
Assuming this device was working fine and it was not deffective, its silence apparently would indicate the absence of gold there. But...

But you mentioned that this device originally detected TV screen from only 1 meter. And this is the first evidence that this device could have had a problem.
My PDC and many I have tested here, reacted to TV screen from 5 to 6 meters. If your device did this from only a meter, something definitely was not right.

OK, you claim to have modified this machine to be more sensitive. Fine. But this brings us to my second point.

Just because you make it sensitive to TV, electrical powerlines, 1.5 battery sparks, etc. absolutely does not mean that it will be more sensitive to gold.
I already stated this many times in the past when discussing the PD. Making it sensitive to the examples above only means it is more sensitive to many electric and ionic fields, but not necessarily that of gold's.

My PDC reacted to a 1.5 battery spark from 1.7 meters. The FG80 Tyon for instance only from 30 cms. But the Tyon would pick a fresh real small gold target from about 1.5 meter while the PDC from only 1 cm.

Making it sensitive to electric fields does not mean you will enhance the gold detection performance. In many cases, it might just be the opposite.

And most important. A working PDC will never be able to detect powerlines from 300 meters distance. Believe me, I owned the PDC for 5 years doing all the tests possible and dozens of field excursions. Only long time buried gold made this machine react at long range. And even if close to powerlines, which required reducing the calibration knob, it could still pick a gold target as the frequencies and phase are different. Although it would have to be a very big target actually.

[J_Player]

Interesting proposal, dear Geo.

I am not retired yet and september is otherwise out of my annual leave, but it is not excluded to obtain small additional holyday. Dowsing or not, for me it would be very interesting to meet esteemed TH colleague and excellent MD designer Geo and some of his friends.

Regarding dowsing test, Greece is not my terrain and I cannot prepare adequate field test condition to be scientifically valid. I may be present at such field test, no problem, but just as valid test can not be considered (I do not believe in tests, in which the same person hides and finds the target).

Of course I am very interested in dowsing test: like the implementation in sort of "Randy" test, and I can make all arrangements needed for such test (say 8 visually equal boxes one of those with gold target):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOsCnX-TKIY

I hope your teacher are willing to undergone such test (video inclusive).

I would wonder, if I could on the way to Greece to join our common dear friend ivconic.Hi WM6,
You have made an excellent decision.
I am sure you will have a wonderful holiday when you visit Croatia and Greece.
Be sure to take photos of the scenery so we can see the places you visit on your holiday.

Also, you will be able to make actual dowsing observations, so you will know what you are talking about when you observe if Geo can dowse or not.
You will be able to make forum posts with authority and facts when you talk about what you see happen when the Greek dowsers show you how they dowse.
Everyone will know you are stating facts, not opinions. And nobody can tell you your facts are wrong. Especially if you show videos.

I congratulate you for an excellent decision to make field observations.
I will be watching for when you return from your trip and make reports of what you see.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[WM6]

Hi WM6,
You have made an excellent decision.
I am sure you will have a wonderful holiday when you visit Croatia and Greece.
Be sure to take photos of the scenery so we can see the places you visit on your holiday.

Also, you will be able to make actual dowsing observations, so you will know what you are talking about when you observe if Geo can dowse or not.
You will be able to make forum posts with authority and facts when you talk about what you see happen when the Greek dowsers show you how they dowse.
Everyone will know you are stating facts, not opinions. And nobody can tell you your facts are wrong. Especially if you show videos.

I congratulate you for an excellent decision to make field observations.
I will be watching for when you return from your trip and make reports of what you see.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

Hi J_P

Croatia is in my neighbourhood, 1 hour by car to croatian beach.

But Greece is quite far, by car I ned first to pass Croatia, Serbia and Macedonia to reach Greece. Mentioned continental route mean at least 10 hour of driving. There are beach route Croatia, Bosnia & Hercegovina, Montenegro, Albania, Greece too but more unpleasant and is not my choice.

I am very interested to do such tests so I hope seriously that we (Geo and I) can to negotiate adequte period, if not in comming september then once later.

[Funfinder]

Hung, thx alot for all your explanations :) :) :)
and we came now to a very important topic:

What other - always available - things besides fresh or long time ago buried treasures forces the Mineoro device to react?!?!

Because if we exactly know that, everyone in the whole world can control if his Mineoro really works, if it also really would detect buried gold etc.!

An example:
The solar charger works in pure sunlight but also if you hold it close to some bright lamp, even at night.

The same way it should be possible that the Mineoro outputs special or even strong signals.


btw. this with the TV detection could be misleading!
We have to know exactly the diameter of the TVs screen and if its cathode-ray-tube or LCD.

And if the usual "electrostatic" noise detection doesn't indicate if the Mineoro is capable in finding gold because or even is "contra-indicative" we need some other unmisleading possibility to test it.

Is there something reliable?

Is it possible buiding some simple electronical device that radiates on a special "gold" frequency so the Mineoro at least can be tested with this?

Is the Mineoro's circuit very sensitive to changing temperature? 'Cause in Europe sometime it's much colder, compared to brazil! But the temperature in Greece should be almost the same...

However - remember the solar charger... - is there also a similar way how to test the Mineoro that it is really working without errors???

And maybe ANDREAS' unit now is "overmodified" so it doesn't detect Gold any longer? At least for ANDREAS we need a shure indicator if the Mineoro works or not!

And it would also of great help for any potential buyers, because those could directly test after shipping in their home-country if the unit still and really works flawless!

[WM6]

H

maybe ANDREAS' unit now is "overmodified" so it doesn't detect Gold any longer?

!

Yes or it is "overmodified", or humidity is to high, or humidity is to low, or it is to cold, or it is to hot, or grass is to high - or to wet, or there was unproper vegetation, or highway was to close, or near church make influence, or soil vibrate, or river was to rush, or dowser has bad feelings, or, or , or , or, ........... there was always tausands of excuse why mineoro expensive crap is not working.

[ANDREAS]

[quote=Funfinder;116258]..........................
And maybe ANDREAS' unit now is "overmodified" so it doesn't detect Gold any longer? At least for ANDREAS we need a shure indicator if the Mineoro works or not!............

quote]
Funfinder i don't make "overmodified", but a make a "servis" :cool::cool: for better results. I don't open clasifier-box and don't open "general-PCB with protection". Only very delicate mods. You must be sure now, this device work perfect (inside laboratory). In practice we see :rolleyes::rolleyes:.
I present my tests new thread by j_player.
best regards

[Morgan]

There are two important points in your information.

First, you claim the original device did not detect in your arquelology area. I presume you mean it did not beep even with edge calibration.
Assuming this device was working fine and it was not deffective, its silence apparently would indicate the absence of gold there. But...

But you mentioned that this device originally detected TV screen from only 1 meter. And this is the first evidence that this device could have had a problem.
My PDC and many I have tested here, reacted to TV screen from 5 to 6 meters. If your device did this from only a meter, something definitely was not right.

OK, you claim to have modified this machine to be more sensitive. Fine. But this brings us to my second point.

Just because you make it sensitive to TV, electrical powerlines, 1.5 battery sparks, etc. absolutely does not mean that it will be more sensitive to gold.
I already stated this many times in the past when discussing the PD. Making it sensitive to the examples above only means it is more sensitive to many electric and ionic fields, but not necessarily that of gold's.

My PDC reacted to a 1.5 battery spark from 1.7 meters. The FG80 Tyon for instance only from 30 cms. But the Tyon would pick a fresh real small gold target from about 1.5 meter while the PDC from only 1 cm.

Making it sensitive to electric fields does not mean you will enhance the gold detection performance. In many cases, it might just be the opposite.

And most important. A working PDC will never be able to detect powerlines from 300 meters distance. Believe me, I owned the PDC for 5 years doing all the tests possible and dozens of field excursions. Only long time buried gold made this machine react at long range. And even if close to powerlines, which required reducing the calibration knob, it could still pick a gold target as the frequencies and phase are different. Although it would have to be a very big target actually.

Hello

I have one MINEORO PDC 210,modificated in Damasio´s Garopaba factory,it detect TV 5meters,spark 1,5 V 1meter,and not detect gold coin or ring even 1 cm from the ionic chamber...As i can see your PDC can detect...WHY ?

Here whe are in PD modification threads,so i present one good modification,and now the PD can work more accurate.The INTENSITY METER and the multiturn Pot. make it very good to work,and allways calibrated into limits.

Regards

13064

[detectoman]

dear brodhy morgan, mm, if you pd need work in limit, isnt good, these seems how you need stabilice major you cacharro may be whit other component, or need any modifications what i soon can say you, but these is the alonso pd? how you had disarm and expand, these not of property? what happ whit you pd prototipe? is in wastepapers?
an embrace at you and all members

[Morgan]

dear brodhy morgan, mm, if you pd need work in limit, isnt good, these seems how you need stabilice major you cacharro may be whit other component, or need any modifications what i soon can say you, but these is the alonso pd? how you had disarm and expand, these not of property? what happ whit you pd prototipe? is in wastepapers?
an embrace at you and all members


The Alonso´s PD is already mine some time ago,i buy it,is better than my PD clone,and this improvments only make it better for searching.
I buy this PD becouse is a true LONG RANGE LOCATOR ;)

[J_Player]

The Alonso´s PD is already mine some time ago,i buy it,is better than my PD clone,and this improvments only make it better for searching.
I buy this PD becouse is a true LONG RANGE LOCATOR ;)Hi Morgan,
I am happy for you. You are now the owner of the famous Alonso PD. :)

I would be interested to see a video if you have time to make one. I would like to see on a very dry day (less than 30% humidity) the distance the Alonso PD can detect the known gold medal you have buried for many years. And in the same video, I would like to see the distance you can detect the same medal with your best Mineoro locator. It would be good to measure the maximum distance in meters from the known location of the medal when you begin to hear definite beeps of the treasure.

If you have time to make this video on a dry day, it can show the difference between detection of the Alonso PD and other Mineoro locators in Portugal.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

Hi Morgan,
I am happy for you. You are now the owner of the famous Alonso PD. :)

I would be interested to see a video if you have time to make one. I would like to see on a very dry day (less than 30% humidity) the distance the Alonso PD can detect the known gold medal you have buried for many years. And in the same video, I would like to see the distance you can detect the same medal with your best Mineoro locator. It would be good to measure the maximum distance in meters from the known location of the medal when you begin to hear definite beeps of the treasure.

If you have time to make this video on a dry day, it can show the difference between detection of the Alonso PD and other Mineoro locators in Portugal.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P

I will find some time to make a video.

The PD not as problems with umidity. The problems are with rain days or very hot days up to 45 degree,its where the distances reduce a lot.

About the mineoro DC 2008 is the one i can trust,but catch the medal not everytime,it was very lucky detect the medal when Geo was here,anyway it start some beeps only above the medal,but PD detection is 2m-3m.


Regards

[J_Player]

Hi J_P

I will find some time to make a video.

The PD not as problems with umidity. The problems are with rain days or very hot days up to 45 degree,its where the distances reduce a lot.

About the mineoro DC 2008 is the one i can trust,but catch the medal not everytime,it was very lucky detect the medal when Geo was here,anyway it start some beeps only above the medal,but PD detection is 2m-3m.

RegardsThank you Morgan.
You can post in the new survey section if you don't have time now for making videos (Mineoro survey here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16967 ).
You can tell what model Mineoro and what maximum distance you found from the medal. This will help people to know the detection you found in Portugal for your DC 2008.

I will also wait to see your video of the DC 2008 detecting on a day with low humidity.
Thank you for making true posts of what you see.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

Thank you Morgan.
You can post in the new survey section if you don't have time now for making videos (Mineoro survey here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16967 ).
You can tell what model Mineoro and what maximum distance you found from the medal. This will help people to know the detection you found in Portugal for your DC 2008.

I will also wait to see your video of the DC 2008 detecting on a day with low humidity.
Thank you for making true posts of what you see.

Best wishes,
J_P


Actualy i have here 20% Humidity and 38 degree temperature(in shadow) its very hot,and MINEORO DC 2008 can not detect the gold medal.
But a few days ago it detect only with sparzed beeps. This as nothing to compare with the clear signal we saw in videos from Brazil,i realy dont know what to say about this ...

[WM6]

No,only long time ago buried metals can be located at this big distances,becouse during many years underground they create some kind of electromagnetic field, and the PD or maybe other LRL can detect this phenomenon.



Hi Morgan,

you mean this:

http://www.aemr.net/publications/spm/spm.pdf ?
(http://www.aemr.net/publications/spm/spm.pdf)

[J_Player]

Actualy i have here 20% Humidity and 38 degree temperature(in shadow) its very hot,and MINEORO DC 2008 can not detect the gold medal.
But a few days ago it detect only with sparzed beeps. This as nothing to compare with the clear signal we saw in videos from Brazil,i realy dont know what to say about this ...Hi Morgan,
This is excellent information of Mineoro DC2008 performance seen in Portugal. Can you put your post again in the Mineoro survey for people to read here? : http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16967

I like your report because we know it it true information.
Other users of Mineoro will also be posting in this survey to show what they see at their location for the Mineoro detection.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[detectoman]

hello brodhy morgan, to respect of mineoro cacharro detection in the beach, is because the salinity is conductive, and the water remained as we can see in the video of hung help, hung and esteban say in the past, why for we is most easy these detection have iner salt, due the fiel is most extended and exist the big field
then you where go to detection put salt in the soil whit water for major detection :)

[detectoman]

you take an glass whit water and salt, then include wires line whit current 125 volt and look, ( please no intrude fingers ) replace these try but whitout salt, and see the result, less conductivity, so the rays no do colision in trees dry, but green, listen of rays only explode in water presence or vapor

[gibon]

Actualy i have here 20% Humidity and 38 degree temperature(in shadow) its very hot,and MINEORO DC 2008 can not detect the gold medal.
But a few days ago it detect only with sparzed beeps. This as nothing to compare with the clear signal we saw in videos from Brazil,i realy dont know what to say about this ...



100 % agree with you Morgan !! :thumb:

Same for me

[takhslambos]

OK.AFTER ALL THIS POSTS AND FIELD TESTS???WHAT LRL IS BETTER ALONSO PD? OR MINEORO DC 2008????

[takhslambos]

AND PLEASE I NEED INFORMATION ABOUT ALONSO PD IN ORDER TO BUILD IT AND TO TEST IT BY MY SELF.MY EMAIL IS koykoynas1@yahoo.gr thanks...........

[Morgan]

OK.AFTER ALL THIS POSTS AND FIELD TESTS???WHAT LRL IS BETTER ALONSO PD? OR MINEORO DC 2008????


Lets see the diferences...

the Pistoldetektor is not the perfect LRL is like one horse with some leg problems :| (can go slowly somewhere)

but the Mineoro is like a blind donkey :( (can go everywhere but cant see nothing)

[Geo]

Lets see the diferences...

the Pistoldetektor is not the perfect LRL is like one horse with some leg problems :| (can go slowly somewhere)

but the Mineoro is like a blind donkey :( (can go everywhere but cant see nothing)


Hahahaha....
Yes ... Morgan.
For another time... you have right:)

[hung]

Once I had the PD and a FG80 in the field. The FG80 detected the target first and then after sometime the PD started to react.

Since you both are smart guys, I don't need to explain the reason for this. Take a look at the size of the receiving element of the PD compared to the FG. It's a matter of physics.

The PD however is a good pinpointer.

But... How about trying to build one LRL based on this principle that could be superior to both?

Well, one is in my oven right now...:lol:
Hope it doesn't get overbaked.

[WM6]

Hope it doesn't get overbaked.



Be calm, it only get overtalled (story). As usual.

[Fred]

Well, one is in my oven right now...:lol:
Hope it doesn't get overbaked.
No, only two years in the oven- Needs more -

[brasilpb]

Greetings to all friends, I'm from Brazil I wanted some more detectors mounted mount that LRL if they can send me the circuit diagram would be very grateful, my address is: gilvantexas@r7.com.

Saudações a todos os amigos, eu sou do Brasil tenho alguns detectores montados mais queria montar esse lrl se puderem me enviar o esquema do circuito ficaria muito grato, meu endereço é : gilvantexas@r7.com

[Morgan]

Greetings to all friends, I'm from Brazil I wanted some more detectors mounted mount that LRL if they can send me the circuit diagram would be very grateful, my address is: gilvantexas@r7.com.

Saudações a todos os amigos, eu sou do Brasil tenho alguns detectores montados mais queria montar esse lrl se puderem me enviar o esquema do circuito ficaria muito grato, meu endereço é : gilvantexas@r7.com

The PD project is already finish.

O PD projeto já está descontinuado.

[brasilpb]

I found this board scheme had not repaired right at the start of the topic: http://hobidetektori.own0.com/lrl-f6/pd-pistol-t637.htm

[abdou2014]

Hi.
I attach 2 photos of the modifications that i made to the PD of Alonso.

Hi Mr Geo , can u share us your stimulateur circuit ????

[Geo]

Hi Mr Geo , can u share us your stimulateur circuit ????

Hi.
So old schematic... i don't have it ....:frown:

[abdou2014]

not necessarily this old stimulator, one of your good stimulators ???:D