Simple but brilliant LRL

[Funfinder]

Let's discuss and work together in this new LRL-case in an own topic!

But in the Iconos MD 807 thread
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16625 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16625)
I've reported already about the beginning developments (see schematics below) including these 2 clips 'til now:
http://www.multiupload.com/SHCZFGJA5H
http://www.multiupload.com/FJ82JS1ID5

Today I found a sieve 20cm diamater made out of metal and shaped like a half ball inclusive handle so it serves very well for small directional antenna tests.

And I found a highsensitive CA3130 opamp with FET Input on an old pcb! :D We electronical skilled treasure hunters are the real one, because we also can find real treasures in "eletronic junk" others throw away! :D

Estebans Zahori:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11674
uses one. This IC seems to amplifies already 2pikoAmpere weak signals and upwards:
http://datasheet.octopart.com/CA3130E-Intersil-datasheet-75654.pdf

btw. all those FETs work good together with photo-diodes so they also can be used for field temperature detection (metal or caves change the temperature of the ground) and perhaps I'll include such 2nd detection-circuit sometimes. Devices you can control by IR-remote use such often black photo-diodes.

My next test is if and how the CA3130 works (alternatives: CA3140, CA3240, CA3260).


@ Morgan:
Thanx for your answer and your suggestions. :) The diode is an OA95 (any glass-one may work) and an 1mOhm instead the 470k resistor is better, but for even more sensitivity you can remove this "pre-noise" circuit completly - it's not neccessary for the main one.
An included BFO circuit could be disturbing other important signals. And I read you detected the coin-cache (I hope you are a millionaire now! :) ) from 20m but directly over the coins you got no signals - perhaps because of overloading energies. We also should try to find a way how to solve this problem so the detection doesn't end at some level.

And I found out the FET at least needs some "minimal electrostatic current" until it starts to work! If the antenna has a big enough size you'll get always signal, or if the signal-source is near enough. A 10m long wire also works to get always a detection, but this is not practical.

However, for maximum gain the FET should be attached directly to the antenna or built into the antenna.

btw. this ring detection is very close to the range where the FET "switches itself on" and RRRRRRR's. And only a very small change in position results in a raising or vanishing ring signal.


@ detectoman
thanx for joining us here. I also invite Geo for sharing his experience and everyone who built already such kind of detectors.


See you soon guys! :D

[Funfinder]

All this will become much more complex as I thought:

The ring in the second clip gets detected but because of some "radar reaction":

http://www.eskimo.com/%7Ebillb/emotor/chargdet.html
7. FIELD DISTORTIONS
Electrify a plastic object, place it on an insulating support, place the FET sensor near it, then make sure the LED is turned on. If you now wave your hand near the object or the sensor, the LED will respond. Your hand causes the e-field around the object to distort and change. Even though your hand is not electrified, the FET responds. You've created a sort of "DC Radar" system which sends out a signal and then responds when nearby objects "reflect" the signal. Some types of industrial sensors ("proximity" or "capacitive" sensors) use this effect. Some burglar alarms do as well.


Of course a treasure also could react in this form if some strong field is behind or nearby, maybe even the natural field between earth and sky could get distorted at a 90° level and create the same effect. Shure, this must be the solution of the whole enigma, 'cause usually there is nothing nearby that can generate electrostatic fields!

Also Point 10 is interresting:
10. DIPOLE ANTENNA

Not only a negative field near the FETs gate (in our case the antenna) can switch it to on, but also a positive field near the whole rest of the circuit! Rub some plastic lineal onto your hair and test it.

Next problem:
11. 'SCUSE ME, WHILE I SENSE THE SKY
All over the earth, thunderstorms are transporting negative electric charge downwards and positive charge upwards. As a result, the earth is electrified negatively everywhere, while the sky is positive. (Actually, it's the conductive ionosphere which is positive.)

Sky vs earth! We have an electrostatic field between ground and ionosphere, most effective if weather is dry and maybe if there some sunstorms.

But there is a solution:
The electrostatic field of the metal has to be larger as this field and the device has to be this unsensitive or antenna that small so this field between earth and sky doesn't get detected.

btw. the following info is very important, also at the mentioned page under 9.:
"It is not too far wrong to say that "static electricity" is simply "voltage." Everyday circuits are driven by the "static electricity" produced by their low voltage power supplies."

Every substance has its own electrical current (or better: electrical potential) and if it gets in closer touch with some other substance "static electricity" gets generated. Buried treasures act like a battery or better like a slowly charged capacitor, depending on the surrounding ground, minerals, fluids etc. Pushing some copper-wire into a lemon also gives some weak voltage.


Considering all of these fact the first question is how to build the pistol. Two flat plates (capacitor style) or more like a dipole? The last one would be more practical and transportable but I will see.

Already I did attach a bright LED in series with the speaker so I can see if the FET is switched on, even if the speaker makes no noise.

And last but not least there remains the hard question if it's useful adding some "static field generating circuit". Could it work like a radar that reflects or amplifies an already existing weak field? I'm not shure - it also could jam the very sensitive receiver-signals completly if transmitted from the same pistoldetector.

Perhaps the antenna has to be vertically so the field between earth and sky mostly gets filtered out - if so a while searching vertically positioned small-plate or spiral-antenna would work best. Or better 2 plates behind each other - the back one acts as shielding or reflector. Practical testing has to verify all these theories. And I will have to built some "pistol" first and test those outside in the field - but maybe better with the CA3130 if it's more sensitive. So I have to modify the circuit first.


Phew, alot work to do. But I love such experimenting stuff, especially if I will find afterwards the same nice treasures like Morgan! http://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif:cool:

[Geo]

Hi Funfinder.
Congatulations for your thread!!!!!
I read what you write, but sorry i am very busy so i have not the time to
actively participate. I believe after 10 days to have free time so to write my experiences. I believe that you are in good way.
Specifically the "Sky vs earth" is a reality.
Continue the good work.

Regards:)

[bama]

Hi funfinder,
Thanks for all the information,it gives me something to work with for
a working LRL. I look forward to more posts.
bama

[Morgan]

All this will become much more complex as I thought:

The ring in the second clip gets detected but because of some "radar reaction":

http://www.eskimo.com/%7Ebillb/emotor/chargdet.html



Of course a treasure also could react in this form if some strong field is behind or nearby, maybe even the natural field between earth and sky could get distorted at a 90° level and create the same effect. Shure, this must be the solution of the whole enigma, 'cause usually there is nothing nearby that can generate electrostatic fields!

Also Point 10 is interresting:
10. DIPOLE ANTENNA

Not only a negative field near the FETs gate (in our case the antenna) can switch it to on, but also a positive field near the whole rest of the circuit! Rub some plastic lineal onto your hair and test it.

Next problem:
11. 'SCUSE ME, WHILE I SENSE THE SKY


Sky vs earth! We have an electrostatic field between ground and ionosphere, most effective if weather is dry and maybe if there some sunstorms.

But there is a solution:
The electrostatic field of the metal has to be larger as this field and the device has to be this unsensitive or antenna that small so this field between earth and sky doesn't get detected.

btw. the following info is very important, also at the mentioned page under 9.:
"It is not too far wrong to say that "static electricity" is simply "voltage." Everyday circuits are driven by the "static electricity" produced by their low voltage power supplies."

Every substance has its own electrical current (or better: electrical potential) and if it gets in closer touch with some other substance "static electricity" gets generated. Buried treasures act like a battery or better like a slowly charged capacitor, depending on the surrounding ground, minerals, fluids etc. Pushing some copper-wire into a lemon also gives some weak voltage.


Considering all of these fact the first question is how to build the pistol. Two flat plates (capacitor style) or more like a dipole? The last one would be more practical and transportable but I will see.

Already I did attach a bright LED in series with the speaker so I can see if the FET is switched on, even if the speaker makes no noise.

And last but not least there remains the hard question if it's useful adding some "static field generating circuit". Could it work like a radar that reflects or amplifies an already existing weak field? I'm not shure - it also could jam the very sensitive receiver-signals completly if transmitted from the same pistoldetector.

Perhaps the antenna has to be vertically so the field between earth and sky mostly gets filtered out - if so a while searching vertically positioned small-plate or spiral-antenna would work best. Or better 2 plates behind each other - the back one acts as shielding or reflector. Practical testing has to verify all these theories. And I will have to built some "pistol" first and test those outside in the field - but maybe better with the CA3130 if it's more sensitive. So I have to modify the circuit first.


Phew, alot work to do. But I love such experimenting stuff, especially if I will find afterwards the same nice treasures like Morgan! http://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif:cool:


Hi Funfinder

Yes,that´s what we know,the long time ago buried metal acomulate energy slowly like a capacitor,and this with the good weather conditions create what Esteban call the PHENOMENON,

If you think the BFO is not needed we not put,lets try like this.

I also think about directional antenna,and possible with GOLD sample for resonating,the same used by MINEORO LRL´s.

12219

12220

12221

[Morgan]

Hi Funfinder

Yes,that´s what we know,the long time ago buried metal acomulate energy slowly like a capacitor,and this with the good weather conditions create what Esteban call the PHENOMENON,

If you think the BFO is not needed we not put,lets try like this.

I also think about directional antenna,and possible with GOLD sample for resonating,the same used by MINEORO LRL´s.

12219

12220

12221

This Head with sample maybe can work fine...

12222

[goldfinder]

Your circuit is what I used to start with when I was researching the supposed ion detection phenomenon. The basic problem with this circuit is it detects the gross electrostatic field and the ions so you end up with a huge noise problem as ES is all over the place. To filter out the ions I inserted a PIC12F675 to read the FET output. I did some timing analysis using an oscope on what ion pulse width is and had the PIC look for the ion pulse width time.

It works great as an ion detector!
Goldfinder

[Morgan]

Your circuit is what I used to start with when I was researching the supposed ion detection phenomenon. The basic problem with this circuit is it detects the gross electrostatic field and the ions so you end up with a huge noise problem as ES is all over the place. To filter out the ions I inserted a PIC12F675 to read the FET output. I did some timing analysis using an oscope on what ion pulse width is and had the PIC look for the ion pulse width time.

It works great as an ion detector!
Goldfinder


So,thats what we are loking for,the ions and energy around tresures. This device need to become perfect to catch what MINEORO cientists call GOLD IONIC FIELD.

In my prototype BFO+IONIC LOCATOR i have drift(with not stable BFO) but not have the HUGE noise you experienced. Of course the antenna can be modificated for better performance,and many other things can be modificated,this project is open for IDEIAS.

[Funfinder]

Part1: new developments:


Thanks for all your answers! :)

I've been very industrious and lucky - the CA3130 works and I have drawn/attached already a special circuit for it.

The 2N5485 seems nearly the same sensitive but the IC could be good for extra digital signal comparation and measurements.

Pin2 alias "inverted input" of CA3130 also could be used, as example to reset the circuits static (secured with some 1k resistor and touched by finger).

However - the both new schematics now are perfectionated :cool: plus improved in design and can be used as a basis for outdoor- and antenna-tests!

The new attached ultra bright LED works wonders! :D It gleams already weak before the noise even starts and shines very bright at full signal strenght without affecting the volume!

I don't know why, but with those diode and the 470k R2 connected to T2 basis the whole circuit is much more sensitive! So test all the diodes that you have and take the one with the best "noise" output at the time the FET or CA3130 is not connected yet. If using the IC3130 the extra diode and resistor seems not so important.

The circuit with the FET transistor now is that sensible that I can wave with a plastic ruler from a 2m distance to switch it on or off! It even recognised the soldering irons tip touch to the IC from 1m! :shocked:

But the most sensitive it is if the circuit almost starts to "open". Maybe you can here the single electrons at this level? :lol:

Just the big problem is how to fix this "threshold" level so that we would have always this maximum gain in signal-amplifictaton!

[Funfinder]

Part2: answers:

@ Geo
Great you found this thread and thx for the compliment! :) I hope in 10 days we will have enough additional improvements so you will come to the right time.

@ Morgan
Thanx for the pictures - i like the trademark logo of Mineoro, it has really a cute design! :)
The BFO could be used for pinpointing but it also could interfere negative with the very weak static-fields or the very sensitive FET circuit. Perhaps it adds some extra "electrostatic" so the FET is slightly switched on but a larger antenna would do the same.

And if the BFO sometimes receives AM radio it would reduce the whole sensitivity. For creating a low "start up static field" we also could integrate some 80voltage dipole or something like this but a large enough antenna also would work. So far I just don't know how large this antenna should be, perhaps some 2m telescopic antenna for better transportation or a 1m diameter foldable alu-umbrella! :D

If the resonating works and has a huge gain it's would be a fantastic thing but I have my doubts because a static field usually doesnt "resonate" or vibrate - it's more comparable with "gas-pressure".

But the gold could interfere with all kind of radio-waves and "convert" this into an other or special radiation. As metal it attracts the EM-waves like an antenna, some of this gets "shortcut" to ground but depending on the frequency it also could start to resonate and send out this resonance. If we have the technical possibilities we could "bombard" a gold-sample with all kind of different radio waves, even with short- and satellite signals (very ultra high, short below infrared) and eventually find out what the gold sends out...

@ goldfinder
This is very interresting info, thx and welcome. :)
Do the ions have a special count per minute/second or how we should imagine this?

There is alot info about ions but what is helpful for us?
For instance wikipedia:
ion, ion-radiation, ion-source, chemical ionisation, field-inonisation, plasma, electrically charged atoms, cathode-rays...
Our task could became very sophisticated and scientific...

________________________________
btw. I found the FETs foto-diode sensor circuit also usable for temperature measuring - it's the final one at this page:

http://www.qsl.net/yo5ofh/hobby%20circuits/led_circuits.htm

[Morgan]

Part1: new developments:


Thanks for all your answers! :)

I've been very industrious and lucky - the CA3130 works and I have drawn/attached already a special circuit for it.

The 2N5485 seems nearly the same sensitive but the IC could be good for extra digital signal comparation and measurements.

Pin2 alias "inverted input" of CA3130 also could be used, as example to reset the circuits static (secured with some 1k resistor and touched by finger).

However - the both new schematics now are perfectionated :cool: plus improved in design and can be used as a basis for outdoor- and antenna-tests!

The new attached ultra bright LED works wonders! :D It gleams already weak before the noise even starts and shines very bright at full signal strenght without affecting the volume!

I don't know why, but with those diode and the 470k R2 connected to T2 basis the whole circuit is much more sensitive! So test all the diodes that you have and take the one with the best "noise" output at the time the FET or CA3130 is not connected yet. If using the IC3130 the extra diode and resistor seems not so important.

The circuit with the FET transistor now is that sensible that I can wave with a plastic ruler from a 2m distance to switch it on or off! It even recognised the soldering irons tip touch to the IC from 1m! :shocked:

But the most sensitive it is if the circuit almost starts to "open". Maybe you can here the single electrons at this level? :lol:

Just the big problem is how to fix this "threshold" level so that we would have always this maximum gain in signal-amplifictaton!


Here you have similar LRL,more complex...

12229

12230

[Qiaozhi]

Here you have similar LRL,more complex...

12229

12230
Was this published in Elektor as an LRL or an electrostatic field detector?

[WM6]

Was this published in Elektor as an LRL or an electrostatic field detector?



All very and long known and "As seen on Geotech" modified by funny graphic camouflage:

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=97892&postcount=12
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=88749&postcount=133
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=41405&postcount=75
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=40728&postcount=95
http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/Circuits/Misc/staticdet.htm
http://talkingelectronics.com/projects/200TrCcts/200TrCcts.html

Roof mounting:

http://i82.servimg.com/u/f82/11/22/64/62/detect11.gif

All about:

http://www.techlib.com/science/ion.html

One really "Simple but brillant LRL"

http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_ideas/Elec_p050.shtml
http://amasci.com/emotor/chargdet.html

etc etc ....

[Geo]

Was this published in Elektor as an LRL or an electrostatic field detector?

It is the Zahori.
It did not published in Elektor as LRL.

[Qiaozhi]

It is the Zahori.
It did not published in Elektor as LRL.
Yes - now I look back at the Zahori files I can see it is the same. For some reason I seemed to remember that the Zahori had a parabolic antenna. :frown:
In the Elektor article it explains that Zahori means "dowser".

[aft_72005]

Hi
The picture at post number11, below elector article was made by Michael.
He had more experience with his handmade . I didn't decide
Write my dissection with Michael about it ., better say directly by him .
Where are you Michael??? Please say about ………

[Geo]

Yes - now I look back at the Zahori files I can see it is the same. For some reason I seemed to remember that the Zahori had a parabolic antenna. :frown:
In the Elektor article it explains that Zahori means "dowser".

Do you have the article in English version???

[J_Player]

Here is the article in English version (Text only)

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Thank you J_P:)

[Qiaozhi]

Here is the article in English version (Text only)

Best wishes,
J_P
I see you beat me to it. :razz: :lol:
This is the translation that I did from the original Elektor article.
You can also have it in Russian, but I don't know who translated this one.

[Funfinder]

@ Morgan
Here you have similar LRL,more complex...
Yes thanx :), those schematics are all about amplification of the electrostatic field - some with alot overflues or even important missing electronical parts and with not really best gain in sensitivity because they overprotect or "shortcut" the FET on partial a huge degree.


@ WM6
One really "Simple but brillant LRL"

http://www.sciencebuddies.org/scienc...lec_p050.shtml (http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_ideas/Elec_p050.shtml)
http://amasci.com/emotor/chargdet.html

etc etc ....

Stop that stupid nonsens, WM6 :nono: :nono: :nono:, those circuits are "pure completly simple" only and if you would read my posts with a little bit more attention instead of just making insulting ridicule out of everything you would have seen that I concerned already those circuits just 2 days ago! :angry: Look here: http://www.eskimo.com/%7Ebillb/emotor/chargdet.html You're defeat again! :D :D :D


@ all
First field test yesterday:
My ultra sensitive circuit starts to show the electrostatic field already when I lifted the box up 5cm from the ground - I even could hear the grass whisper - no joke!!! :shocked:

A nearby railroad-overhead-line was detected from 40m distance with a loud "R R R R R... sound" - see here:

http://www.multiupload.com/I3HKG4QGHB

I used a wooden fruit-box, the top-cover of an ex-sat-receiver as directional plate antenna and instead of the speaker a little active box (those one you can get for mp3 players etc. - works great). ;)

The volume raises by lifting the box more above the ground - there is a remarkable difference even within 20cm of height.

This test showed me that the next important thing to do is attaching a switch that is connected to a variable condenser (10-100 pF) to the FETs gate for reducing the sens - but only if this is wanted or needed and not all the time!

Also a voltmeter could be used to show more differentiated how strong the static energy is, 'cause the LED most of the time just is on or off and the speaker only signalizes "modulated" or pulsed static fields.

Anyone can tell me if the "long buried treasure" sends out such pulsed signals too or just creates a slightly or stronger raise of the electrostatic field?

[WM6]

Hi Funfinder,

you successfuly rediscover hot water. Please keep it hot!

[Funfinder]

@ WM6

Don't we all just cook with water...? :rolleyes:

At least i'm doing something useful and constructiive instead of flaming threads with stupid comments like you do. :angry:

Did you read Goethe's Faust and now you're thinking that you're the evil ghost that has to negates everything !?!?! :lol:

[Theseus]

@ WM6

Don't we all just cook with water...? :rolleyes:

At least i'm doing something useful and constructiive instead of flaming threads with stupid comments like you do. :angry:

Did you read Goethe's Faust and now you're thinking that you're the evil ghost that has to negates everything !?!?! :lol:

I hope you didn't go to all the trouble of building that Fruit Box Hum Detector just so you could listen to the spurious AC emissions from those overhead power lines.

[Funfinder]

@ Theseus
The trouble is it worth to find out what capabilities the staticfieldeffect has or not has.


But perhaps we really have to switch to a much more effective "scientific basis" or better said: "much more efficient detection method".

I checked out the OKM site which is in my native german language and the OKM Bionic Alpha really looks promising - here for you in english:

http://www.okmmetaldetectors.com/products/longrange/bionicA.php?lang=en

It also uses an ionic chamber and is the same expensive as the Mineoro LRLs:

http://metaldetector.com.mk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=39&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=92&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26&vmcchk=1&Itemid=26

The Alpha uses 3 different detection methods and finds also new metal located in air or ground!
And I don't care if it doesn't reaches the same distance as the Bionic 01 as long as it detects the metal reliable.


In the next future we'll have to find out alot if we wanna be really successful... :cool:

btw. I could buy such OKM Bionic Alpha... - but better reading first all the user reviews I can get! Does this forum contains already some? And I also could visit the manufacturing persons and test this device there... :cool:

Here is some thread but I haven't read it yet:
http://geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15680

edit: read it; 4 pages and almost nothing has directly to do with the subject: "Bionic Alpha ?????"
And why is this so? Perhaps just because of too much flaming LRL nonbelievers who wanna disturb a serios investigation???
Please don't call such a discussion culture: "creative chaos"... - but perhaps it is for the right kind of person....

[Morgan]

@ Theseus
The trouble is it worth to find out what capabilities the staticfieldeffect has or not has.


But perhaps we really have to switch to a much more effective "scientific basis" or better said: "much more efficient detection method".

I checked out the OKM site which is in my native german language and the OKM Bionic Alpha really looks promising - here for you in english:

http://www.okmmetaldetectors.com/products/longrange/bionicA.php?lang=en

It also uses an ionic chamber and is the same expensive as the Mineoro LRLs:

http://metaldetector.com.mk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=39&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=92&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26&vmcchk=1&Itemid=26

The Alpha uses 3 different detection methods and finds also new metal located in air or ground!
And I don't care if it doesn't reaches the same distance as the Bionic 01 as long as it detects the metal reliable.


In the next future we'll have to find out alot if we wanna be really successful... :cool:

btw. I could buy such OKM Bionic Alpha... - but better reading first all the user reviews I can get! Does this forum contains already some? And I also could visit the manufacturing persons and test this device there... :cool:

Here is some thread but I haven't read it yet:
http://geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15680

edit: read it; 4 pages and almost nothing has directly to do with the subject: "Bionic Alpha ?????"
And why is this so? Perhaps just because of too much flaming LRL nonbelievers who wanna disturb a serios investigation???
Please don't call such a discussion culture: "creative chaos"... - but perhaps it is for the right kind of person....


Hello

Not spend 10.000 E in useless BIONIC.
If you are from Germany,i have friends there,they test BIONIC and not satisfied,i can give phone nr to you t contact them.
About Zahori is diferent,becouse Esteban say it works as LRL,just need some alterations,possible in the antenna,lets see what we can do...

[Alexismex]

Hello Funfinder and others LRL guys ,
It is better for your cerebellum to begin with " more serious" work on ion chambers , electrostatic ....etc...AND YOU WILL UNDERSTAND what you did not discover the world of electricity!!!!! see link for beginning academic work:

http://www.techlib.com/science/ion.html

see all this site full off true electronic INFO .....not mineoro o okm style infos :lol:!!!!
HAVE FUN
Alexis.
http://www.techlib.com/science/images/ionsch1.gif

[Alexismex]

This is "true science working" not loco loco device
http://www.techlib.com/science/images/iononwood1.jpg

[Morgan]

Hello Funfinder and others LRL guys ,
It is better for your cerebellum to begin with " more serious" work on ion chambers , electrostatic ....etc...AND YOU WILL UNDERSTAND what you did not discover the world of electricity!!!!! see link for beginning academic work:

http://www.techlib.com/science/ion.html

see all this site full off true electronic INFO .....not mineoro o okm style infos :lol:!!!!
HAVE FUN
Alexis.
http://www.techlib.com/science/images/ionsch1.gif

Hello Alex

We are rediscovering what others(Alonso&Damasio) have discover many years ago.
About MINEORO,i not say more than what i have found already, a few objects with model DC 2008,but i hope to find a treasure,and i will say that this devices realy work,but for now Ã* stay quiet...
Thanks for your work opening one MINEORO,the ionic chamber is very interesting...

Regards

[J_Player]

This design above is used to detect ions in the chamber. The FET measures very small currents due to the discharge of ions inside the can. These ions can enter the can from outside if it is open to the air, or they can come from the inside if there is an ionizing radiation that causes the gasses to ionize inside.

The Mineoro Ion chamber is said to be different in that it is claimed to "classify the ions" so they can be determined to be ions from gold. According to the scientific theories of the inventors, their ionic chambers are designed to detect just gold, and nothing else. They also manufacture other ionic chambers to detect other materials. The inventors of the Mineoro ion chamber once explained how it works to identify the presence of gold:


When the negative "ion" finds its twin of opposite polarity, they love each other so intensively, that when they get together they provoke a short-circuit autodestroying themselves.

As in the Romeo and Juliet movie, both of them die, but the proof of their death is a flask of poison near them: in the same way, our "passionate ions" also leave a proof of their death in "emiting a crash", which generates an electrical signal so fast as nano, pico, femto or atto seconds, detectable in sensitive electronic circuits and projected for this aim.

The classifier just filters the negative "ions", twin pairs of positivie "ions" produced by the classifier.We can see this is advanced science, beyond simply putting a charge on an electrode inside tin can to sense ions discharging. In fact, the Mineoro gold classifier required a 25ct gold foil terminal and gold shielding to be used in order to measure the crashing "Romeo and Juliet" effect. And who knows what electronics are processing these femto and atto second "crashes" to determine they were induced by the presence of "passionate ions" from distant buried gold?

Of course, at this stage I see people simply trying to measure ions with sensitive FET amplifiers. And I wonder how a treasure hunter with these FET ion sensors will know the difference between ions in the air near a copper coin, a tin can, or a gold ingot. How will they know the ions they are sensing are not caused by gamma radiation from a nearby source, or by a tree that has a static charge? Or maybe a damp spot on the ground has reduced the static charge in the air at a certain location?

Wouldn't all the tiny pulses of current through the FET look the same to the amplifier? Wouldn't they all look like the same collections of tiny pulses of current that come each time an air molecule discharges against the electrode, regardless of what caused the discharges? :nerd:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Funfinder]

Puzzling all the new info together we have now will get really interresting or better: exciting! :D

I have no doubt the OKM Bionic detects gold from a distance - also these videos can be taken as some kind of indices:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e7WODpaHMY&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/user/DetectionServices#p/a/u/2/eMaIyGS36Gw


The questions are:

What and how much "thick substance" (as example ground or 10cm wall of lead) the ions can go through?

How small is the detection angle?
An example: if you find a 2cm golden ring at 5m distance, you cand find a 3cm gold medaillon at 10m or a gold bar at 50m. In other words: How many degrees of the 360° get recognised.

Can we built a "poor mans" gold ion detector, how many hours work and how much costs in material stuff?

Practical testing - with short and long time ago buried gold.


@ Morgan
Thank you for the info about your german friends who already have such OKM Bionic and your warning about better saving the money! :D
Always better to be careful with LRL claims companies and their resellers offer but this doesn't save us from serious testing and sorting out truth from lies.

1. Do your friends use the Bionic Alpha or the 01?
2. Why they are unsatisified?
3. If the device is so bad, they shure like to sell it for just 1000 Euro, getting at least some money back?!
4. Did they have searched at really good locations?
5. Will they open their Bionic and mail us some pix?
6. If Esteban is right that the "Zahori" alias (any) Electrostatic-Receiver works with some electrosmog filters and the right antenna (perhaps located in some alu-tube for better "pinpointing" and avoiding overloading or erratic signals) should we work in this direction, too?

Next thank you about the "PASSIVE RECEIVER" hint. I thought already that it is this you are talking about. So you had the best searching results so far with your "PR BFO PD LRL?" or in other words 'cause sometimes I hate all those shorts:
"Passive Receiver Beat Frequency Oscillator Pistol Detector Long Range Locator". :D

What is the "big secret" about that passive receiver? Every receiver is passive, as long it is no transceiver like a walkie-talkie.

Please can you post here or pm me a simple circuit so i can make some tests the same like with electrostatic. Hung or who it was wrote that even a little bit modified FM-Radio will work. The question is just: how good and effective....

And what is the "wave principle" behind?
That the buried treasure works like an antenna and absorbes the sourrounding radio waves, so your highly sensitive passive receiver will get a weaker signal of the whole wave-mixture around, like it is if some other antenna is near your own antenna?

btw. I also found this posting here:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15985
and if already at the first post someone writes that the "Golden King" is crap how I can take such chit-chat for serious? Some people seems to be really wrong informed or unable to make their own good fundamented subjective. Is it really that complicated with electronical devices? Understanding on what working priniciple they're based and testing if they work? Is it so hard for a person who can't see EM waves with his own eyes taking some electronic-device(s) with the own hands and try 'em out?

Are we are women who like to discuss for weeks if Britney Spears had sex with his ex-boyfriend or not??? :D :lol: :D

So please let's stay at least in this thread stricly technical ontopic, fair and only concentrated on a real good working electronical device! Thank you all. ;)

[Jim]

Puzzling all the new info together we have now will get really interresting or better: exciting! :D

I have no doubt the OKM Bionic detects gold from a distance - also these videos can be taken as some kind of indices:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e7WODpaHMY&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/user/DetectionServices#p/a/u/2/eMaIyGS36Gw




I think the video with the operator dropping the ring on a rope onto the ground after they turn over the lump of dirt shows intentions of fraud.

Just my opinion...of course

[WM6]

Did you read Goethe's Faust and now you're thinking that you're the evil ghost that has to negates everything !?!?!

:lol:

I read it on regullary basis and find a lot od similarities between you and Mefisto although you are really only dr. Falst.

[Funfinder]

PS: check out this site if you think all OKM stuff is crap:

http://kts-electronic.com/index.php?lang=en

KTS Electronic also built deep search devices - I visited Mr. Yazdani 15 years ago personally and bought a used Fisher 1266-X from him which still works!

I can assure you that he self developes / sells real working hitec detectors and that he's a very skilled and kind engineer! :)

Look here if you want a very good PI detector with discrimination and 4 different coils for 1999,-Euro:
http://kts-electronic.com/content/view/29/79/lang,en/

[Funfinder]

@ WM6

I read it on regullary basis and find a lot od similarities between you and Mefisto although you are really only dr. Falst.

And you are Gretchen, just like to have childish and offtopic smalltalk! :D

Dr. Faustus at least had scientific interrest and didn't interrupt everything with silly provocative comments. :lol:

You've been already completly unable to bring up "technical data" in the Jeohunter thread so please don't interfere and disturb here any longer, too. :angry: Have you already visited www.nuggets.at (http://www.nuggets.at) in Klagenfurt to test the Jeohunter on your own??? For shure not, because you are much too lazy, ignorant, incopetend and incapable to do this! :angry: Just making stupid jokes, insulting statements and intersecting technical threads for you is much more fun and easier... :angry:

If you like nontechnical but emotional discussion please register in some love-forum. :) Or are you some sort of entertainer, enfant terrible and mr. provocateur/provo-acteur here?

[Morgan]

Puzzling all the new info together we have now will get really interresting or better: exciting! :D

I have no doubt the OKM Bionic detects gold from a distance - also these videos can be taken as some kind of indices:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e7WODpaHMY&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/user/DetectionServices#p/a/u/2/eMaIyGS36Gw


The questions are:

What and how much "thick substance" (as example ground or 10cm wall of lead) the ions can go through?

How small is the detection angle?
An example: if you find a 2cm golden ring at 5m distance, you cand find a 3cm gold medaillon at 10m or a gold bar at 50m. In other words: How many degrees of the 360° get recognised.

Can we built a "poor mans" gold ion detector, how many hours work and how much costs in material stuff?

Practical testing - with short and long time ago buried gold.


@ Morgan
Thank you for the info about your german friends who already have such OKM Bionic and your warning about better saving the money! :D
Always better to be careful with LRL claims companies and their resellers offer but this doesn't save us from serious testing and sorting out truth from lies.

1. Do your friends use the Bionic Alpha or the 01?
2. Why they are unsatisified?
3. If the device is so bad, they shure like to sell it for just 1000 Euro, getting at least some money back?!
4. Did they have searched at really good locations?
5. Will they open their Bionic and mail us some pix?
6. If Esteban is right that the "Zahori" alias (any) Electrostatic-Receiver works with some electrosmog filters and the right antenna (perhaps located in some alu-tube for better "pinpointing" and avoiding overloading or erratic signals) should we work in this direction, too?

Next thank you about the "PASSIVE RECEIVER" hint. I thought already that it is this you are talking about. So you had the best searching results so far with your "PR BFO PD LRL?" or in other words 'cause sometimes I hate all those shorts:
"Passive Receiver Beat Frequency Oscillator Pistol Detector Long Range Locator". :D

What is the "big secret" about that passive receiver? Every receiver is passive, as long it is no transceiver like a walkie-talkie.

Please can you post here or pm me a simple circuit so i can make some tests the same like with electrostatic. Hung or who it was wrote that even a little bit modified FM-Radio will work. The question is just: how good and effective....

And what is the "wave principle" behind?
That the buried treasure works like an antenna and absorbes the sourrounding radio waves, so your highly sensitive passive receiver will get a weaker signal of the whole wave-mixture around, like it is if some other antenna is near your own antenna?

btw. I also found this posting here:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15985
and if already at the first post someone writes that the "Golden King" is crap how I can take such chit-chat for serious? Some people seems to be really wrong informed or unable to make their own good fundamented subjective. Is it really that complicated with electronical devices? Understanding on what working priniciple they're based and testing if they work? Is it so hard for a person who can't see EM waves with his own eyes taking some electronic-device(s) with the own hands and try 'em out?

Are we are women who like to discuss for weeks if Britney Spears had sex with his ex-boyfriend or not??? :D :lol: :D

So please let's stay at least in this thread stricly technical ontopic, fair and only concentrated on a real good working electronical device! Thank you all. ;)


I agree to build the POOR MANS GOLD ION LOCATOR.One LRL project for everybody,no secrets.
Hope Esteban can help ???
Or maybe no need ;)

[Morgan]

I agree to build the POOR MANS GOLD ION LOCATOR.One LRL project for everybody,no secrets.
Hope Esteban can help ???
Or maybe no need ;)


Even the skeptics can help us with simple Dr,Best ideias ,i think we can build some working and simple LRL,i´m sure this is possible if we all work together in the project THE POOR MANS GOLD ION LOCATOR.

[Funfinder]

Morgan, well said! :cool:

After I studied through Alexismex's link (thanx to him :) )
http://www.techlib.com/science/ion.html

I can imagine we will built the antenna much more easily as it looks for the moment.
It has to be some tube or tin-can but not completly closed.

This will reduce the electrostatic and may give us the chance to analyse the incoming ionic rays / pulse-ratings.

At least we will built some radioactive-metal detector... :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_scrap_metal

Gold scrap
In the early part of the 20th century in the USA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA), gold (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold) which was contaminated with lead-210 entered the jewelry industry. This was from gold seeds which had held radon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radon)-222 which had been melted down (after the radon had decayed). The daughters of the radon are still radioactive.[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_scrap_metal#cite_note-15)

Anyway please Morgan don't forget to give me still some info's about the passive receiver. The more info we have, the more important parts we can make fitting together.

And now we know why the Mineoro DC 2008 needs 12 x 1,5v batteries (18v) - because of the (b)ionic-chamber.

[Morgan]

Morgan, well said! :cool:

After I studied through Alexismex's link (thanx to him :) )
http://www.techlib.com/science/ion.html

I can imagine we will built the antenna much more easily as it looks for the moment.
It has to be some tube or tin-can but not completly closed.

This will reduce the electrostatic and may give us the chance to analyse the incoming ionic rays / pulse-ratings.

At least we will built some radioactive-metal detector... :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_scrap_metal



Anyway please Morgan don't forget to give me still some info's about the passive receiver. The more info we have, the more important parts we can make fitting together.

And now we know why the Mineoro DC 2008 needs 12 x 1,5v batteries (18v) - because of the (b)ionic-chamber.



Yes,its interesting to build the most eficient ANTENNA or IONIC CHAMBER with gold sample for resonant .ANY IDEIAS ???,everybody can give opinions,or just say its impossible.
For now i´m interested to know the working FREQUENCY OF THE ZAHORI ,if someone know,please tell me.

[J_Player]

I have no doubt the OKM Bionic detects gold from a distance - also these videos can be taken as some kind of indices:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e7WODpaHMY&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/user/Detectio.../2/eMaIyGS36Gw
The OKM products are known to be gradiometers that use cheap fluxgate magnetometer sensors to sense the magnetic gradient in the area where it is positioned.
With the exception of the people who are intrested in selling these locators, most people find they do not help to locate buried gold.
Nobody who has opened an OKM detector has found evidence of any ion chambers, but they have found the fluxgate magnetic sensors.

Here is the sensor they found:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10971&stc=1&d=1264434002
The appearance is the OKM detectors are demonstrated to show variations in the magnetic gradient, and are manipulated in a manner to fool the observers into thinking they are tracking gold rather than measuring small changes in the magnetic field. This is confirmed by the fact that the OKM detectors must be moved to scan only in a vertical direction after they are calibrated for a given compass direction. If they are rotated toward a different compass direction, the earth's magnetic field will throw them out of calibration so they must be recalibrated for the new direction. (This seems reasonable since the fluxgate sensors are positioned laterally to the side of each other, allowing vertical rotation only).
The text display on the detector also helps to convince a lot of people that there are secret circuits inside that lock onto gold. But the real proof is in the field where treasure hunters try it out and find out how well it works to locate buried gold. Nearly everyone who has tried an OKM product in the field on thier own has concluded it is a piece of junk that does not locate gold. But it can be used as a fairly good gradiometer. The problem is the cost is about the same as you pay for a used Mercedes Benz. Instead of buying an OKM detector, you could build a more sensitive gradiometer for about $200 or less.

Before you conclude the OKM detectos are finding gold, read these threads from the Geophysics forum from people who have actually used them and looked to see what is inside them:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15985
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14775
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13747

My opinion about how the OKM detectors locate gold:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10799&stc=1&d=1262995949

I think anyone who believes the OKM will locate treasure for them while they are treasure hunting will be disappointed the same as the people who posted in the Geophysics forum. I would suggest you try out the OKM in your own hands in a location where you hide the gold away from other metal objects to see how well it works for you. Also try locating the shovel with the gold placed below it to see what you find. Then try it with the gold only, and no shovel. If you are then convinced it is really finding treasure for you, you should buy it. But if you think it is performing like a cheap gradiometer, then maybe you would prefer to build your own gradiometer for a couple of hundred dollars.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

[quote=Funfinder;112271

Dr. Faustus at least had scientific interrest and didn't interrupt everything with silly provocative comments. :lol:

[/quote]

Not dr Faustus, but dr. Falst --> dr. Falsificatus.

[Funfinder]

@ Morgan
We shouldn't call it: "POOR MANS GOLD ION LOCATOR" but "SMART MANS GOLD ION LOCATOR" - poor are those after buying such devices for thousands of dollars. :lol: ;)

About the "gold resonance factor":
The best way would be to put some piece of goldprobe into an peanuts-can sized ion-chamber and anayze the results like with radioactive probe. This wouldn't require extremly high sensitivity and could show us the right way.

But the big question is: What makes the gold-ions different from the huge rest and how much "go through solid material"-power they have.

Afaik the Zahori has no frequency at all, especially not the Mini-Zahori, because it measures the voltage field and it could became really complex for instance to measure just the electrostatic field between 1000-10000Volts.


@ WM6
Not dr Faustus, but dr. Falst --> dr. Falsificatus.
That's clear, 'cause for you is everything false, Dr. Pseudo-Verificatus. :razz:


@ J_Player

Thx for the links, I will read them. (edit: they are don't giving much or reliable information)

Nice work you've done here in illustrating the possible "fake show" - we just won't come any further by pure speculations. The shovel also could have been used to mark the gold ring for finding it again if the Bionic not will work or so the viewer knows that the goldring really is at this special location.

Not to forget he uses the Bionic 01 and I'm speaking about the Alpha, which already claims it does NOT works for really far distances, but instead also can detect other metals, too.

The price is a topic on its own. A small 10ct emerald also could cost ya 10.000 dollars! Same with very rare collection objects or hitec prototype stuff.
If you have the money get your darling a ring for 10.000 bucks - but it's nothing essential (ok, under some circumstances it might be...)
The big question is: it is worth the high price or not!
Yes it is, but only if you will find valuable stuff for shure and not just for holding on to a dream that never comes true.


But I think such a high price is a pretty good justification that the expensive LRL HAS TO WORK as described otherwise the unsatisfied customer has a very good reason for going immediatly to court or getting his money back! The more it costs the more money would be lost or "stolen" if it doesn't work and therefore the higher the "punishment" for a fraud-company has to be - this can tell you any lawyer.
Before buying a LRL always ask your lawyer how you can stay on the safe side... ;)

Anyway, if this discussion will go on further that highly controvers without clear and secured facts the only way out would be testing this device on my own - and believe me, I don't let deceive myself, I know how to test such stuff "foolproved".

I also wouldn't buy some Mineoro if it claims to detect "fresh gold" :D :D :D (sorry, but "fresh" usually is vegetable or fruits but no gold! ;) ) and it just beeps randomly.

btw. OKM tells on its website that the Bionic Alpha uses three different detection methods you can select, if those don't work alltogether.

It may have been my fault to post the links to the Bionic 01 clips but from now on we should focus on the Alpha and after we know exactly how and if it works we can proceed to the Bionic 01. btw. "DetectionServices" also shows some "BabyFinder" test and it does not look like he wants to deceive any persons in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/user/DetectionServices#p/a/u/1/zKzqKl2A5CM

Other topic:
Yesterday I made some outdoor test with my fruitbox-detector (of course this is just a prototype for experimenting, the final device will look totally different) - but now connected with a 1-100 pF variable capacitor. The large electricity line made a noise like a helicopter! Tuning the capacitor (connected between +9V, an 1k resistor and the base alias gate of the FET) brought alot but not enough to eliminate such highpower signals completly.

But it works and now the next step is finding the best "directional antenna" and balance of the circuit so it really can detect conductive or static-field-distorting metal below the ground. If this is done at least we will know for shure if an electrostatic or Zahori detector works, how good and what kind of antenna-improvements have to be made.

Anyone here already has some field reports how his electrostatic-detector worked out in the field or what kind of problems did occure?! If I remember right ivconic built one but wasn't very satisfied with the detection results.

btw. detecting the static or the ions uses almost or the same circuit, so it could be possible adding just two different antennas (the ion-tube also is one) to the same device! We will find out.

[WM6]

btw. "DetectionServices" also shows some "BabyFinder" test and it does not look like he wants to deceive any persons in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/user/DetectionServices#p/a/u/1/zKzqKl2A5CM




Better to name it "BrilliantDummyFinder".

At the end you will rediscover deep frozen tap water bottled by Funfinder.

[Morgan]

The OKM products are known to be gradiometers that use cheap fluxgate magnetometer sensors to sense the magnetic gradient in the area where it is positioned.
With the exception of the people who are intrested in selling these locators, most people find they do not help to locate buried gold.
Nobody who has opened an OKM detector has found evidence of any ion chambers, but they have found the fluxgate magnetic sensors.

Here is the sensor they found:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10971&stc=1&d=1264434002
The appearance is the OKM detectors are demonstrated to show variations in the magnetic gradient, and are manipulated in a manner to fool the observers into thinking they are tracking gold rather than measuring small changes in the magnetic field. This is confirmed by the fact that the OKM detectors must be moved to scan only in a vertical direction after they are calibrated for a given compass direction. If they are rotated toward a different compass direction, the earth's magnetic field will throw them out of calibration so they must be recalibrated for the new direction. (This seems reasonable since the fluxgate sensors are positioned laterally to the side of each other, allowing vertical rotation only).
The text display on the detector also helps to convince a lot of people that there are secret circuits inside that lock onto gold. But the real proof is in the field where treasure hunters try it out and find out how well it works to locate buried gold. Nearly everyone who has tried an OKM product in the field on thier own has concluded it is a piece of junk that does not locate gold. But it can be used as a fairly good gradiometer. The problem is the cost is about the same as you pay for a used Mercedes Benz. Instead of buying an OKM detector, you could build a more sensitive gradiometer for about $200 or less.

Before you conclude the OKM detectos are finding gold, read these threads from the Geophysics forum from people who have actually used them and looked to see what is inside them:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15985
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14775
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13747

My opinion about how the OKM detectors locate gold:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10799&stc=1&d=1262995949

I think anyone who believes the OKM will locate treasure for them while they are treasure hunting will be disappointed the same as the people who posted in the Geophysics forum. I would suggest you try out the OKM in your own hands in a location where you hide the gold away from other metal objects to see how well it works for you. Also try locating the shovel with the gold placed below it to see what you find. Then try it with the gold only, and no shovel. If you are then convinced it is really finding treasure for you, you should buy it. But if you think it is performing like a cheap gradiometer, then maybe you would prefer to build your own gradiometer for a couple of hundred dollars.

Best wishes,
J_P


So,it was this man Manolo´s friend,who want to convince people that OKM lrl works...
This is realy BIG SCAM,this piece of crap is useles and cost IO.OOO EURO.
OKM people should be shame,and this LRL agent in Italy also !!!

[Morgan]

@ WM6



And you are Gretchen, just like to have childish and offtopic smalltalk! :D

Dr. Faustus at least had scientific interrest and didn't interrupt everything with silly provocative comments. :lol:

You've been already completly unable to bring up "technical data" in the Jeohunter thread so please don't interfere and disturb here any longer, too. :angry: Have you already visited www.nuggets.at (http://www.nuggets.at) in Klagenfurt to test the Jeohunter on your own??? For shure not, because you are much too lazy, ignorant, incopetend and incapable to do this! :angry: Just making stupid jokes, insulting statements and intersecting technical threads for you is much more fun and easier... :angry:

If you like nontechnical but emotional discussion please register in some love-forum. :) Or are you some sort of entertainer, enfant terrible and mr. provocateur/provo-acteur here?


JUST ONE SHORT STORY ABOUT OKM


One friend buy the BIONIC 01 and go search in frontier near Austria-Hungria, in special celtic territory where already treasures have ben found.
The place is where the celts buried ofers to their gods.
The owner of this BIONIC 01,search during one week all this place and surounds and said no more treasures,he finds NOTHING !!!
A week latter some of my friend go to the same place with powerful metal detector and dig five medium size treasures !!! Was schulde ich ihnen ? OKM is to deceive people,sorry to tell,i know you are from Germany but this BIONIC´s are useles...
12279

[J_Player]

Nice work you've done here in illustrating the possible "fake show" - we just won't come any further by pure speculations. The shovel also could have been used to mark the gold ring for finding it again if the Bionic not will work or so the viewer knows that the goldring really is at this special location.

Not to forget he uses the Bionic 01 and I'm speaking about the Alpha, which already claims it does NOT works for really far distances, but instead also can detect other metals, too.

The price is a topic on its own. A small 10ct emerald also could cost ya 10.000 dollars! Same with very rare collection objects or hitec prototype stuff.
If you have the money get your darling a ring for 10.000 bucks - but it's nothing essential (ok, under some circumstances it might be...)
The big question is: it is worth the high price or not!
Yes it is, but only if you will find valuable stuff for shure and not just for holding on to a dream that never comes true.


But I think such a high price is a pretty good justification that the expensive LRL HAS TO WORK as described otherwise the unsatisfied customer has a very good reason for going immediatly to court or getting his money back! The more it costs the more money would be lost or "stolen" if it doesn't work and therefore the higher the "punishment" for a fraud-company has to be - this can tell you any lawyer.
Before buying a LRL always ask your lawyer how you can stay on the safe side... ;)Hi Funfinder,
There is no reason to go to court or hire a lawyer. You are in Germany!
You are in a perfect position to test any OKM detector yourself and see if it will work for you to help you find treasure.
There are Germans who own different models of OKM who you can contact to ask questions and maybe go on field trips to see what the OKM can do.
You do not need to speculate anything.

The best test of any treasure locator is to put it in your own hands and use it to see if it can help you find hidden treasure.
Use the detector and see if it is something you want to spend the money for.
After you try it in the conditions that you normally hunt for treasure, you will know without speculation if you want to buy it.

For example: If you go to a known location where people buried gold treasures for their gods and the OKM shows you the location of 10 kilos of gold in different places before the end of the day, then maybe you will buy the OKM detector as soon as you return to the store. But if you find cannot find gold, even in places where you buried the gold, then maybe you will tell the OKM people that you agree with other German treasure hunters that the OKM does not find gold.

For me it is speculation that no OKM model can find gold, because I never tested an OKM in a way that will prevent the salesman from making tricks to fool me.
But you are close to the OKM detector manufacturer.
And Morgan can give you information about other German people who know the answers from testing with their own hands.
You have no need to speculate. You can easily find the answers if you want to know.

It is true I am speculating all the OKM detectors are gradiometers and cannot identify gold.
But it is also true that you are speculating when you say you "have no doubt the OKM Bionic detects gold from a distance".

The difference between my speculation and your speculation is my speculation costs me nothing, but your speculation costs 10.000 EU.
If you decide not to test the OKM for yourself before buying, then you are left with a final decision:

You've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky?
Well, do ya?
Are you ready to hold on to a dream that never comes true?

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

JUST ONE SHORT STORY ABOUT OKM


One friend buy the BIONIC 01 and go search in frontier near Austria-Hungria, in special celtic territory where already treasures have ben found.
The place is where the celts buried ofers to their gods.
The owner of this BIONIC 01,search during one week all this place and surounds and said no more treasures,he finds NOTHING !!!
A week latter some of my friend go to the same place with powerful metal detector and dig five medium size treasures !!! Was schulde ich ihnen ? OKM is to deceive people,sorry to tell,i know you are from Germany but this BIONIC´s are useles...Ihr Freund... Er ist dein Retter!

Best wishes,
J_P

[Funfinder]

@ J_Player
It's not that simple as you might think but I really like your very good and fair argumentation! :)

I am not from Germany but from a german speaking neighbour-country and visiting OKM in Windischleuba near Leipzig would b a 2-3 days trip minimum and would cost me around 300-500 Euro. So first the question is if it's really worth.

I asked a treasure hunter pro that worked already with OKM detectors and he told me that this is a very complex story and I should test those devices absolutly by myself.

And even if you may believe those will tell me for shure lies for selling their products, I will try to contact some OKM resellers to get more specific info about the Bionic 01 and Alpha. The OKM Magnetometer / Gradiometer devices work for shure - just how good is the question.

But you also can get such units here:
http://kts-electronic.com/content/view/12/54/lang,en/
The price is 12.000 Euro and I doubt they make a special high price if it's not justified by expensive parts and long engineering and production-issues, because they also want to sell their products for an attractive price.


@ Morgan
It was the OKM Bionic 01 "LRL only" your german friends have used unsuccessfully. I have no doubt your report about that celtic site is true but we can't use this as a proof this stuff is completly garbage and doesn't work at all.

The most important thing first is to find out what detection-abilities are proofable and repeatable testable. Like the "fresh gold" detector of new Mineoros - if it really works like the name claims.

The second question is really to proof this distance tests shown in that already known videos - especially that outside one! What kind of calibration is used and how deep the fresh gold get's detected - but if buried!

I don't know if Esteban already bought such device to add it to his "LRL arsenal" as he told - but if yes, he also can tell us his own fieldtest-results.

Shure I'm feeling sad about your german friends they haven't found anything so far with such a very expensive detector and perhaps after real much work, but this is no proof it doesn't work at all. And I doubt they bought it without any try or test before.

Nobody makes such risky and expensive investments without at least some tests before. I also don't know if they are in contact now with OKM and what those say to statements like:
"Your Bionic 01 completly doesn't work, so either give me a working one or my money back!"

Morgan, near where I am living alot Nazi-Gold and other treasures have been hidden at the end of WW2. Most of it has been found already, but not everything. So a real working LRL could be pays off if I get if with such one - but that's the big ???

For final pinpointing the Jeohunter already is perfect but this area is huge and the gold could be have been buried everywhere - at 1m depth minimum!

But for shure I won't invest 10.000 bucks into some unsecure device that works just sometimes. That's why I really would like to get such OKM Bionic into my hands and make really smart tests. We have to find out if it works or not or how good, if we want to find "special hidden treasures" and I will look forward to do this.

[Esteban]

@ J_Player
It's not that simple as you might think but I really like your very good and fair argumentation! :)

I am not from Germany but from a german speaking neighbour-country and visiting OKM in Windischleuba near Leipzig would b a 2-3 days trip minimum and would cost me around 300-500 Euro. So first the question is if it's really worth.

I asked a treasure hunter pro that worked already with OKM detectors and he told me that this is a very complex story and I should test those devices absolutly by myself.

And even if you may believe those will tell me for shure lies for selling their products, I will try to contact some OKM resellers to get more specific info about the Bionic 01 and Alpha. The OKM Magnetometer / Gradiometer devices work for shure - just how good is the question.

But you also can get such units here:
http://kts-electronic.com/content/view/12/54/lang,en/
The price is 12.000 Euro and I doubt they make a special high price if it's not justified by expensive parts and long engineering and production-issues, because they also want to sell their products for an attractive price.


@ Morgan
It was the OKM Bionic 01 "LRL only" your german friends have used unsuccessfully. I have no doubt your report about that celtic site is true but we can't use this as a proof this stuff is completly garbage and doesn't work at all.

The most important thing first is to find out what detection-abilities are proofable and repeatable testable. Like the "fresh gold" detector of new Mineoros - if it really works like the name claims.

The second question is really to proof this distance tests shown in that already known videos - especially that outside one! What kind of calibration is used and how deep the fresh gold get's detected - but if buried!

I don't know if Esteban already bought such device to add it to his "LRL arsenal" as he told - but if yes, he also can tell us his own fieldtest-results.

Shure I'm feeling sad about your german friends they haven't found anything so far with such a very expensive detector and perhaps after real much work, but this is no proof it doesn't work at all. And I doubt they bought it without any try or test before.

Nobody makes such risky and expensive investments without at least some tests before. I also don't know if they are in contact now with OKM and what those say to statements like:
"Your Bionic 01 completly doesn't work, so either give me a working one or my money back!"

Morgan, near where I am living alot Nazi-Gold and other treasures have been hidden at the end of WW2. Most of it has been found already, but not everything. So a real working LRL could be pays off if I get if with such one - but that's the big ???

For final pinpointing the Jeohunter already is perfect but this area is huge and the gold could be have been buried everywhere - at 1m depth minimum!

But for shure I won't invest 10.000 bucks into some unsecure device that works just sometimes. That's why I really would like to get such OKM Bionic into my hands and make really smart tests. We have to find out if it works or not or how good, if we want to find "special hidden treasures" and I will look forward to do this.

No, haven't it. 12,000 euros!!! :shocked:

[detectoman]

hello esteban ya estas bien de tu ojo? yo espero que ya estes bien
hi esteban i finally healt of you eye? i await you' re fine

[Funfinder]

@ Esteban
Yeah, I hope your eye is healthy very soon, too.

And shure 12.000 Euro (ca. 15.000 Dollars) is a huge amount of money, especially if you have already alot good working LRLs.

But I hope you did or will find with them gold treasures worth a few millions so this money would be just peanuts for you... ;)

I really hope at least you will find a way to test some Bionic Alpha or Bionic 01 for us, even without buying.

[Funfinder]

I've found out for the long time ago artefacts the Bionic Alpha uses an "ions count system".

So what is this exactly? Is it comparable with radioactivity-detectors?

If so noble metal like gold has to produce some energetic particles that radiates or got transported with the electrostatic field like Mineoro explains.

This is ion-radiation and not ion-particles that move into nearby ground.

Is Mineoro shure that this 24k gold-foil inside of the FG80 chamber attracts gold-ion-radiation only? I doubt, because it is metal and metal would attract all kind of metal-ions.

btw. OKM has written:
The technology of OKM metal detectors has been certified and well tested
But certified from whom?

Anyway - we'll check out the big secret about the Bionic Alpha and 01 - just a matter of time, money and motivation! :D

[Funfinder]

JUST ONE SHORT STORY ABOUT OKM


One friend buy the BIONIC 01 and go search in frontier near Austria-Hungria, in special celtic territory where already treasures have ben found.
The place is where the celts buried ofers to their gods.
The owner of this BIONIC 01,search during one week all this place and surounds and said no more treasures,he finds NOTHING !!!
A week latter some of my friend go to the same place with powerful metal detector and dig five medium size treasures !!! Was schulde ich ihnen ? OKM is to deceive people,sorry to tell,i know you are from Germany but this BIONIC´s are useles...
12279

First you can not know that "you are from Germany" because I'm from Austria and second what do like to say with "Was schulde ich ihnen?" alias "How much or what do i owe you?"

According to Estebans explaination the strong radiation aka EM-field-oscillation MDs and especially the powerful metal detectors of your fellows create can or will definitive kill the very weak eletectrostatic currents. And if there are also iron objects buried it would also reduce the chance for detection.

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16320&page=3
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=106812&postcount=56
3. If you put a small iron object near the object, the distance decreases.

4. If you put a large iron object on the target area may disappear almost completely, except for a treasure or a large object, good conductor.

(...)

6. If you put a MD (on) over the target for 15 minutes or less, the "phenomenon" dissapears. So oscillations consumes the "phenomenon". The "phenomenon" recovers after X time.

And one page before on post #50 Esteban wrote:
I explain millions times. When you put oscillator near item, also you're killed the phenomenon.


Blaming Mineoro or OKM their "expensive" or even worse "scam" devices don't work is easy and cheap, but finding out the true reasons would be much more constructive for all of us if we wanna end up successfully with the whole long range problematic. http://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

And I'm shure the weak electrostatic fields of this celtic-site have been already completly eradicated by hords of detectorists since a very long time!

[J_Player]

Blaming Mineoro or OKM their "expensive" or even worse "scam" devices don't work is easy and cheap, but finding out the true reasons would be much more constructive for all of us if we wanna end up successfully with the whole long range problematic. http://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

And I'm shure the weak electrostatic fields of this celtic-site have been already completly eradicated by hords of detectorists since a very long time! Ummmm...
Does this mean you are ready to buy the OKM now? :rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

I've found out for the long time ago artefacts the Bionic Alpha uses an "ions count system".

So what is this exactly? Is it comparable with radioactivity-detectors?

If so noble metal like gold has to produce some energetic particles that radiates or got transported with the electrostatic field like Mineoro explains.

This is ion-radiation and not ion-particles that move into nearby ground.

Is Mineoro shure that this 24k gold-foil inside of the FG80 chamber attracts gold-ion-radiation only? I doubt, because it is metal and metal would attract all kind of metal-ions.

btw. OKM has written:

But certified from whom?

Anyway - we'll check out the big secret about the Bionic Alpha and 01 - just a matter of time, money and motivation! :D



Just popular expresion, HOW MUCH ATENTION SHOULD I PAY FOR THIS BIONIC 01...

[Morgan]

I've found out for the long time ago artefacts the Bionic Alpha uses an "ions count system".

So what is this exactly? Is it comparable with radioactivity-detectors?

If so noble metal like gold has to produce some energetic particles that radiates or got transported with the electrostatic field like Mineoro explains.

This is ion-radiation and not ion-particles that move into nearby ground.

Is Mineoro shure that this 24k gold-foil inside of the FG80 chamber attracts gold-ion-radiation only? I doubt, because it is metal and metal would attract all kind of metal-ions.

btw. OKM has written:

But certified from whom?

Anyway - we'll check out the big secret about the Bionic Alpha and 01 - just a matter of time, money and motivation! :D


The celtic place,maybe is searched,but not so often that all the electromagnetic fields are destroyed,this consist in several treasures hide in the most strange places and circunstances around one large lake surouded by mountains. I´m waiting for some spare time to search there with my LRL´s...

[Funfinder]

I can tell you what:
How to finally built this detector really was a hard nut to crack. But now I'm really happy. :D

I decided to use the case of a wiresearcher because it is light-weight, has already place for a 9v block plus electronic and a practical handle.

I don't care if the case is out of plastic because I recognised those small electrical charges from that vanish very fast.

Into the front side is melted a female chinch jack so I can check out all kind of different antennas. The 3,5mm stereo jack is on the top side for active speaker or even ear-phones.
Nearby is a small switch that is connected to a variable capacitor. If it's off, the JFETs antenna will got the full power, but sometimes the electrostatic field or signals are too strong so I can put it on and tune it to the best level. The knob of that capacitor is located on the side.

Soon I will update the schematics so you know where it's connected and I really recommend to add such a variable capacitor, too.

On the front side is the battery-case, the ultrabright LED and an on/off switch.

All in all is the size only 15 x 8 x 3cm and with active box 20cm. Of course without the antenna, but because the JFETs gate wire inside of the detector is ca. 5cm there is already a pretty good detection of electrostratic fields or nearby electricity!

Have fun and good luck if you built the same cool device. :D

PS.: If hold this detector near the plasma-ball the LED starts to shine even if the device is switched off! :D

[WM6]

:angry: Have you already visited www.nuggets.at (http://www.nuggets.at) in Klagenfurt to test the Jeohunter on your own??? For shure not, because you are much too lazy, ignorant, incopetend and incapable to do this!



Wrong conclusion, the only reason is that Jeohunter is only good for vampire hunting in combination with Bionic 01 laser.

[Funfinder]

Here are the final and complete schematics:

[WM6]

Far better tha this stollen "by Funfinder" versions is this D. Mohan Kumar version, which can distinkt between negative an positive ions:

[Morgan]

Here are the final and complete schematics:


Looks to work very good.
When you have time can test in field and inform results.

Regards

[Funfinder]

@ WM6
Far better tha this stollen "by Funfinder"...
Stop telling us sociopathic nonsens here, you evil liar! :nono::nono: I did invented this schematic completly on my own!

And your posted circuit for shure is not better, look at all these resistors, those make everything completly unsensitive!
Made out of hard to get and expensive parts. :frown: btw. I miss the very important audio output, too. :lol:


@ Morgan
I've made the first test yesterday but it was raining - I used a 10cm spiral radio antenna. No problems with the plastic housing at all. Next I will try a 20cm diam. tin-cover of cookie-box as directional "electrode-antenna". Like the sat-receiver cover it will has much more gain.

> The celtic place,maybe is searched,but not so often that all the electromagnetic fields are destroyed,

OK, I understand. A second question would be: Is there just only gold to find on this site? And a third one: Did your friends from Germany found already at least anything, how many lucrative places they have visited so far and what is their actual opinion about the Bionic 01?


@ J_Player
For shure I won't buy some OKM Bionic that fast, but I'm seriously motivated finding out how and how good those works. There is also a Detector-Forum meeting in south germany in a few weeks, perhaps I go there and somebody can take his Bionic there so we can test it.

[WM6]

And your posted circuit for shure is not better, look at all these resistors, those make everything completly unsensitive!

.

Unsensitive? You even do not understand how electrostatic sensor work.

And dont be funny, MD web forums (geotech too) are full of schematic like yours. What you do is only camouflage very known schematics into funny symbols.

There is no problem to build high sensitivity static (or ionic) sensor, problem is to biuld high directivity sensor. Hic Rhodos - hic salta!

[J_Player]

Unsensitive? You even do not understand how electrostatic sensor work.

And dont be funny, MD web forums (geotech too) are full of schematic like yours. What you do is only camouflage very known schematics into funny symbols.

There is no problem to build high sensitivity static (or ionic) sensor, problem is to biuld high directivity sensor. Hic Rhodos - hic salta!This looks like maybe a good circuit for detecting charges in the air. I wonder how well it works for locating buried metal at a distance? :rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

I wonder how well it works for locating buried metal at a distance? :rolleyes:




If you are born dowser it can be so easy as by dowsing rod. For others it is only simple static charge detector.

[Infamy]

I can't decide if this is tripe or spam, lets make it easy, its crap, a swamp full of crap. Better still a swamp full of LRL crap. Have your defective brains managed to kill anyone this year?

Why don't you **** off and do something useful for a change.

[WM6]

I can't decide if this is tripe or spam, lets make it easy, its crap, a swamp full of crap. Better still a swamp full of LRL crap. Have your defective brains managed to kill anyone this year?

Why don't you **** off and do something useful for a change.

Hi infamy

I dont understand you. Are you PRO or CONS LRL?

[Funfinder]

Hi infamy

I dont understand you. Are you PRO or CONS LRL?

Sorry if I answer, but what a stupid question!! :frown:

We all shouldn't be pro or con LRLs but pro understanding and pro technical details! Open minded to try and test new electronic inventions or discoveries!
And critical enough to sort out truth from lies!

As we know already from Morgan, Geo and others here there are working and not working LRLs out there. Of course we want a 100% working one so we have to understand why it works and under which circumstances it will not work! Comparable topic: If it is snowing some sat-dishes also don't work...

Are we in kindergarten or is this so complicated to understand? :razz: :razz:


> problem is to biuld high directivity sensor

I would say the problem is that the electrostatic field looks more like a distorted cloud or balloon and the voltage/strengh of the field raises proportional to the distance and gets overpropotional stronger the more you came near. So a high directive sensor is simple not possible - only a high sensitive one, so we can sense already the weaker edges of the energie-field.

It's comparable if the flash strikes the tip of the highest tree and not the roof out ouf metal which is just 3m below and much larger.

If we think about the behaviour of high-voltages you know that for every 1000volts the spark can jump ca. 1mm - (10kV = 1cm spark etc.) no matter how many milli-/amperes.

If you came near enough to the electrostatic field, you can sense it, but you also will unload/decharge it, if it isn't connected to some energy source. I could test this very good with my new detector. Comparable with shortcutting a battery. However the sparks alias electrons are very small and the most time invisible.

Enough theory:
Here are some first indoor testresults so we can compare the sensitivity of our electrostatic-detectors:

Detection of the 220V cable of my powered on LCD-monitor:
with inbuilt 5cm antenna: 5cm
with 20cm dish-antenna: 50cm

50cm distance if the flat side (front) looks to the cable, 35cm if the edge looks to the cable. So it works pretty good directional.

But perhaps 20cm are not enough...

[WM6]

As we know ...

Open minded to try and test new electronic inventions or discoveries!

.

Who are "we"?

Now you are open minded to LRL inventors? And this was writing by your brother not by you?:


............. So for the justice it's very easy to hunt them down and take those "fantasy-inventors" out once and for all if their stuff doesn't hold what it promises for often a huge amount of money!

........... Pseudowaves and bionic-stuff. The human body can't even recognise very strong waves of an emitting radio-antenna nearby, so how it should detect stuff that is 100m away?! By magic, by demonic help, by "bionic sensitivity"??? Absolutly ridiculous.

If some elements really should radiate at a special frequency or can be brought to interference to special rays this is provable, if an electronic device claims it can find the right location. Because such device doesn't move by magic but by measurable forces.

Put the device on a table and a goldring behind it and look if it turns on its own in this direction. If not, throw it away and sue the sellers *ss off! If you don't do this, you indirectly support such types for betraying further and further more people!

I really have no idea how it is possible such "not working devices" can be sold at all, but even kellyco offers "Anderson Rods" for a high price. What about those people dreaming at night who buy such stuff? That they are now become a great fortune-teller or what? That their hands will become magic? Stupidity to the hilt!

[J_Player]

As we know already from Morgan, Geo and others here there are working and not working LRLs out there.This is not even true. We don't know this at all!

There are many people who choose to believe this because it is what they were told and because they saw a videotape. But nobody can possibly know this is true except Geo or Morgan, who actually experienced it rather than taking someone else's word and believing what they were told. If "we already know from Morgan, Geo and others", then we would also "already know from the LRL salesman in some distant country, or the Nigerian diplomat who wants to deposit large sums of money in your bank account.

To know and to believe are two different things. One constitutes truth, the other constitutes faith.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

I believe that the operation of a lrl is different between day to day or hour to hour or Country to Country.
I saw some lrls that work but only one was stable. Only one of them work every time every day if the temperature is more than 5...10 degrees of celcium. The other lrls especially here at Greece don't work every time, every day at every grounds.
At Greece there are a lot of iron oxides in the ground so it is more difficult to construct a more stable lrl, in oposite to Portugal or Brazil or Paraguay.
I believe that this is the reason who some people that constructed a lot of lrls can't give then to the shops for selling (see Alonso, Esteban etc).

Regards:)

ps..
I apologize from Esteban because I used his name in my above hypothetical thought

[Funfinder]

There is a really huge information-vaccuum we have to fill with pressured-air alias serious knowledge!


Geo, it is the right direction guessing what could be the reason why your LRLs in Greece have problems, but even this just only can be the first step. We need to know for shure which kind of interferences, ground-behaviour and negative-factors interact with the LRL or make it "worthless". Because it has to do a good job and should work reliable and versatile.


J_Player, we shouldn't use "faith categories" here at all.
Shure, a higher rate of trustworthy persons that will swear that their LRLs work would suggest a higher chance of truth, but this would be still just "hearsay".

What we need is proofable info and repeatable test-results. And not another whole 5 years of some discussion without any useful results.

J_Player, what do you think about this posting:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=112684&postcount=498

Must be a lie, sounds unbelievable, those tests are faked etc.? Well, the US reseller of OKM is in Florida - some 1000miles away from you. I don't know if you will go there, after all your negative experiences with LRLs.

But what we have to do is to fill up those damned information-vaccuum and stop all those worthless speculations. Or the LRL-train could start in direction "El Dorado" without us on board.

We have to make alot technical experiments and get in contact with some chief-producers so those can assure us that their products work and why.

I won't discuss here as long as we haven't got really good and new useful information. All this guessing and "believing yes or not" is absolutly useless - a waste of precious time.

btw. there is another important argument worth thinking about:

If I would sell Hitec-LRLs for 10.000 bucks - what people would buy them? Poor, stupid and powerless or strong, mighty, rich, intelligent and powerful people?! Think about it. If I would sell useless crap to such persons with alot influence, good lawyers and psychological skill I would not survive very long - that's for shure! And if Mineoro or OKM (at the moment I don't care about the rest) would just sell worthless sh*t, they could not go on to do such a dirty job for even one year! Mineoro would have been killed by the brazil maffia and the OKM engineers would detect "iron bars" in jail.

There is a massive gap between some geotech-forum members and LRL-engineeers that has to be filled very fast. Because alot here would be potential customers, supporters and users of LRL equipment - but of course only if it is working! Me too.


btw. there is a complete other important topic with LRLs:
The "resolution" - the target-angle!

Large coils of conventional MDs doesn't find very small coins or gold nuggets very well!
Because of the resolution!
But scanning the horizon with some LRL is the same stuff:
If the LRL has an opening angle of only 2° you could find single coins at 50m distance, but you also would have to scan very accurate the whole area - this could take hours!

If the LRL has a detection angle of 30° you just could sweep a few times around and the whole area is covered, but for shure on cost of sensitivity!

We must keep this in mind! The more the LRL works like a directional antenna, the smaller the angle and the more complex the search of the near and distant search-field!

If the Bionic 01 just has a 2 degree-efficience (and I guess it is that small because if the Laser pin-pointer is just some 10-30cm away from the target, there is no longer a recognition!) it would be no wonder if someone doesn't find anything if he just "waves" a bit around with this devices. Because with such inefficent "scanning the area"-technic he or she would only covers 5-10% of the whole area. Especially while walking and detecting.



Finally a question about the electrostatic sensitivity:

Can someone here who has a Mineoro or some electrost. receiver test from what distance it detects a usual household electricity wire (that is active) and also tell us the antenna-size?

This is important so we know the approx. sensitivity range the receiver must have at least for detecting the field of buried metal objects.

[J_Player]

... J_Player, we shouldn't use "faith categories" here at all.
Shure, a higher rate of trustworthy persons that will swear that their LRLs work would suggest a higher chance of truth, but this would be still just "hearsay".Yes, everything you read is hearsay. The only thing you know is what you experience for yourself. The world runs on faith. We have faith that the sun will come up tomorrow, and that the laws for our country will be the same tomorrow, and that the money we put in a bank will be there to retrieve when we want it. We have faith that people tell us the truth and the news reports we watch on TV are accurate so we have good information. But we see that sometimes the things we have faith in turn out to be a disappointment. So we make assessments of the source that we place our faith in, so we will not be surprised by the agony of misplaced expectations. When it comes to spending 10.000 EU, maybe it is wise to find out as much real information as possible before believing. If your expectations are not met, then it is doubtful you will get your 10.000 returned.

What we need is proofable info and repeatable test-results. And not another whole 5 years of some discussion without any useful results.

J_Player, what do you think about this posting:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=112684&postcount=498

Must be a lie, sounds unbelievable, those tests are faked etc.? Well, the US reseller of OKM is in Florida - some 1000miles away from you. I don't know if you will go there, after all your negative experiences with LRLs.I think I am reading another report about a machine which I know consists of cheap magnetometers and a processor that can be built for about $300 or less. I have no reason to believe any OKM detector can detect gold at this point. I would believe it is detecting gold after I ran my own experiments and could watch it locate gold that I know has been buried in a field for over 10,000 years. To be more specific, I have no use for a detector that is claimed to find a piece of gold after I calibrate it to beep at the gold, then hide the gold and find it again. The gold I want to find has not been dug up before, and we cannot calibrate the machine against it when I go on a treasure hunt. I want a machine that will show me where to find new treasure in a field so I can dig it up and put it in my museum of cool stuff I found. Not a machine that will tell me where I am hiding something.

Second, I have heard other similar reports to this one, and even watched videos like he describes which indicate to me the detector is sensing only a magnetic signature for the position and azimuth it is calibrated for. The nature of the sensors prevents it from working at other compass direction after it has been calibrated. Of course I could change my mind if I had some personal experience watching any OKM product responding as if it is not relying soley on magnetic signatures to perform the locating function...
Or I could become convinced if I could see any OKM detector consistently show me where to place my shovel to dig some metal that has never been dug before, just like a metal detector does. But I read only hearsay stories and watch videos of non-gold detecting performance from sources which WM6 intimates are people who want to promote the OKM. If we are expected to believe reports from people who have actual experience with OKM detectors, then why should I listen only to the reports that say it is an amazing gold detector, when there are many more actual experience reports from treasure hunters who say they cannot find gold with it, and is complete junk in a fancy box?

I can put my faith in the videos and reports that say OKM is a fantastic gold-finding machine and spend 10.000 EU, or I can wait until someone demonstrates it working in live experience to find gold in the manner a treasure hunter would use it, and keep my 10.000 EU. Which would you rather do? But what we have to do is to fill up those damned information-vaccuum and stop all those worthless speculations. Or the LRL-train could start in direction "El Dorado" without us on board.

We have to make alot technical experiments and get in contact with some chief-producers so those can assure us that their products work and why.

I won't discuss here as long as we haven't got really good and new useful information. All this guessing and "believing yes or not" is absolutly useless - a waste of precious time.More hearsay and assurances from producers of OKM? More hearsay experiments?
Why not spare yourself the time of endless talk and more experiments and simply get someone with an OKM to show you it finding a treasure that they don't know the location of.
You know... find a treasure in the field like you find with a metal detector, without holding the treasure in front of your detector and burying it first. Isn't personal experience the only real test?
Who cares about what parlor tricks you can get the OKM to do if it can't help you find a treasure? btw. there is another important argument worth thinking about:

If I would sell Hitec-LRLs for 10.000 bucks - what people would buy them? Poor, stupid and powerless or strong, mighty, rich, intelligent and powerful people?! Think about it. If I would sell useless crap to such persons with alot influence, good lawyers and psychological skill I would not survive very long - that's for shure! And if Mineoro or OKM (at the moment I don't care about the rest) would just sell worthless sh*t, they could not go on to do such a dirty job for even one year! Mineoro would have been killed by the brazil maffia and the OKM engineers would detect "iron bars" in jail.Not true. Nobody takes much action against LRL producers. Most LRLs are made small scale for a small market of people who usually give up trying to get their money back. You can ask Carl-NC about this. He acquired many of his LRLs for pennies on the dollar from people who paid full price and found they don't work, then gave up on trying to get their money back. The LRL companies seldom go to jail because nobody chases them down and demands it. The larger producers are making fortunes selling their wares to the governments of many countries as security detectors that will locate bombs or contraband. These producers don't spend much time in jail, if any. But the money they earn is enormous... well into the millions. Take a look at this page: http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/
Do you think Jim Mcormick is very saddened by his short visit to the local authorities, who only decided to make him stop exporting to a specified list of places? It looks like he lives in a very nice home today. Don't you think so?
There is a massive gap between some geotech-forum members and LRL-engineeers that has to be filled very fast. Because alot here would be potential customers, supporters and users of LRL equipment - but of course only if it is working! Me too.This gap is very easy to eliminate. Simply let the people with these working LRLs demonstrate them working to find treasure that they don't know where is buried. If they can do this consistently instead of making talk, then maybe someone would believe them.
btw. there is a complete other important topic with LRLs:
The "resolution" - the target-angle!

Large coils of conventional MDs doesn't find very small coins or gold nuggets very well!
Because of the resolution!
But scanning the horizon with some LRL is the same stuff:
If the LRL has an opening angle of only 2° you could find single coins at 50m distance, but you also would have to scan very accurate the whole area - this could take hours!

If the LRL has a detection angle of 30° you just could sweep a few times around and the whole area is covered, but for shure on cost of sensitivity!

We must keep this in mind! The more the LRL works like a directional antenna, the smaller the angle and the more complex the search of the near and distant search-field!

If the Bionic 01 just has a 2 degree-efficience (and I guess it is that small because if the Laser pin-pointer is just some 10-30cm away from the target, there is no longer a recognition!) it would be no wonder if someone doesn't find anything if he just "waves" a bit around with this devices. Because with such inefficent "scanning the area"-technic he or she would only covers 5-10% of the whole area. Especially while walking and detecting.... Or could it be the two fluxgate sensors cannot be moved to a different compass angle after they are set for a specific direction? :rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Finally a question about the electrostatic sensitivity:

Can someone here who has a Mineoro or some electrost. receiver test from what distance it detects a usual household electricity wire (that is active) and also tell us the antenna-size?

This is important so we know the approx. sensitivity range the receiver must have at least for detecting the field of buried metal objects.

Hi.
Outside of my Lab i have a refrigerator.
When the "motor-compresor" works, i locate the wire from 3m far. If it don't work i locate it from 20...30 cm. This is electromagnetic field and not electrostatic. As antenna i use a round coil 20cm diameter.

[Infamy]

I have a long wave radio, it picks up power lines from over 100m away, anyone interested, only 1000 Euros.

Here's a new prefix, lrl-s h i t.

How many hoards can you name that have been found with lrl-s h i t?

[Infamy]

Hi infamy

I dont understand you. Are you PRO or CONS LRL?

Short answer, you have a problem if that is a serious question.

Those that pedal LRL should be fitted with concrete boots and dumped in the gulf of Mexico. Alternatively they could be ramped into that leaking oil pipe out there and help to save what little natural environment there is in the USA.

[Funfinder]

Hi.
Outside of my Lab i have a refrigerator.
When the "motor-compresor" works, i locate the wire from 3m far. If it don't work i locate it from 20...30 cm. This is electromagnetic field and not electrostatic. As antenna i use a round coil 20cm diameter.

Highvoltage AC creates a very fast changing electrostatic field so we can detect those power lines from a far distance, but usually static means stable and the term is used for highvoltage DC current fields.

Yesterday I made a test outside - a small and light plastic-bag could be detected with the 20cm plate at around 30-50cm distance.

Geo, please can you put some ca. 30 to 40cm light plastic bag outside somewhere in the grass (without specially charging it before by rubbing somewhere!) and test from what distance you can detect it?

Because first we have to find out if the electrostatic is useable as LRL at all and how sensitive our detector has to be. Perhaps we also have to use much larger or better antennas!

[fenixdigger]

This is a little off the hook ,but it may be what is needed.
If you cut a spiral into a flat sheet of plastic, you can stretch it into a cone shape. The material will bend to form a type of parabolic concentrator. This shape has been used to make solar collectors, directional antennas for both transmitting and receiving signals. The further the stretch the more concentrated and the narrower the area it can scan. May be cool to try an adjustable one to get it tuned to the application. LT

[Geo]

Highvoltage AC creates a very fast changing electrostatic field so we can detect those power lines from a far distance, but usually static means stable and the term is used for highvoltage DC current fields.

Yesterday I made a test outside - a small and light plastic-bag could be detected with the 20cm plate at around 30-50cm distance.

Geo, please can you put some ca. 30 to 40cm light plastic bag outside somewhere in the grass (without specially charging it before by rubbing somewhere!) and test from what distance you can detect it?

Because first we have to find out if the electrostatic is useable as LRL at all and how sensitive our detector has to be. Perhaps we also have to use much larger or better antennas!

I will try it today or tomorrow.
With who version of your detector you locate the static of the bug??? with the 3130 or with fet???
I have some coins buried 20years ago. If my electrostatic detector will not detect the bug then i will construct your detector and i will try it at the place with the coins.

[Funfinder]

@ fenixdigger
thx for the good idea. It is just the question how many antennas we have to incorporate into the final one detector. We could use some parabolic reflector as electrostatic antenna and the coils or ferrites in front are for the metal.



@ Geo
I have the FET version - it has a better audio-signal throughput. btw. that bag was from the greek restaurant, and it is very lightweight. :)

Yesterday I built the antenna you can see below with a size around 40cm, but it has only around 30% gain concerning the distance compared with the 20cm diameter one.

I think the easiest and most lightweight solution would be simply to stick some sheets of alu-foil onto a stable cardboard that has a size of ca. 1m. Connecting this in my case with a cinch (RCA) plug I would have the best portable and even foldable solution (as long as it isn't windy outside! :D )

btw. The very lightweigh alu-pipe-circle has around the same gain as the 38x22cm sat-receiver case-cover.

It detects the 1,5m long 220v electricity cable (2 wires unshielded) of a hanging lamp from ca. 1meter. If I switch on the variable capacitor and turn it to fully 180 pF I can reduce the distance to just 15cm (as it would be without any antenna).

But yet it's more important getting better sensitivity.

[fenixdigger]

I've seen mylar glued to plastic with spray adhesive after the spiral was cut for solar. the transmit /receive ones were alum. sheet.

What if you wrapped copper wire around a cone, then wrap the wire with something w/ adhesive to hold it in place, and then put it inside the cone?

That would seem to restrict the input to a narrow area but still give a lot of surface to receive signals just like the spiral. LT

[WM6]

But yet it's more important getting better sensitivity.



Very nice construction Funfinder indeed. Like small Large Hadron Collider.

Try rotating to 13.7 degree nach Ost.

[goldfinder]

Highvoltage AC creates a very fast changing electrostatic field so we can detect those power lines from a far distance, but usually static means stable and the term is used for highvoltage DC current fields.

Yesterday I made a test outside - a small and light plastic-bag could be detected with the 20cm plate at around 30-50cm distance.

Geo, please can you put some ca. 30 to 40cm light plastic bag outside somewhere in the grass (without specially charging it before by rubbing somewhere!) and test from what distance you can detect it?

Because first we have to find out if the electrostatic is useable as LRL at all and how sensitive our detector has to be. Perhaps we also have to use much larger or better antennas!

Funfinder,
You are going thru what I researched many years ago. The thing to have the detector "look" for are ions. Ions have a specific electromagnetic radiation pattern when they discharge. If the LRL circuitry is set up to look for that pattern then you will have something. :)

Electrostatic by itself is a waste of time. :nono: I stated this in a previous note herein.

Goldfinder

[fenixdigger]

Isn't this back to OKM's units? I hear some people swear by them and others swear at them. After all the non treasure I have dug (a mountain) compared to the treasure (a small bucket) due to misfires with mfds and the associated variables, It makes sense to me that the ions would the way to go.
Very good point Goldfinder.

[J_Player]

Funfinder,
You are going thru what I researched many years ago. The thing to have the detector "look" for are ions. Ions have a specific electromagnetic radiation pattern when they discharge. If the LRL circuitry is set up to look for that pattern then you will have something. :)

Electrostatic by itself is a waste of time. :nono: I stated this in a previous note herein.

GoldfinderWasting time can be a good teacher of deeper truths and wisdom for some people.
Besides, this antenna can be used as a toroid top-load on a Tesla coil if it fails to work for locating treasure. :rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

[goldfinder]

Wasting time can be a good teacher of deeper truths and wisdom for some people.
Besides, this antenna can be used as a toroid top-load on a Tesla coil if it fails to work for locating treasure. :rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

Many paths to top but view from top is same!:)

[Geo]

Yesterday i tried my electrostatic lrl to detect the static of a plastic bug WITHOUT results. After it i went to the place where i have mercury burried and i tried the lrl again. I took some random signals near to the mercury but i am not sure if they are from it. One of the next days i will try again with other lrls. Also i will try to make the detector of funfinder so to see if it detects the mercury or some coins burried before 20 years.
:)

[nelson]

Hi Funfinder.
Can you please post the frequencie of this divice.
May be i can help with my expirence on modeling and constructing antennas.
Regards
Nelson



@ fenixdigger
thx for the good idea. It is just the question how many antennas we have to incorporate into the final one detector. We could use some parabolic reflector as electrostatic antenna and the coils or ferrites in front are for the metal.



@ Geo
I have the FET version - it has a better audio-signal throughput. btw. that bag was from the greek restaurant, and it is very lightweight. :)

Yesterday I built the antenna you can see below with a size around 40cm, but it has only around 30% gain concerning the distance compared with the 20cm diameter one.

I think the easiest and most lightweight solution would be simply to stick some sheets of alu-foil onto a stable cardboard that has a size of ca. 1m. Connecting this in my case with a cinch (RCA) plug I would have the best portable and even foldable solution (as long as it isn't windy outside! :D )

btw. The very lightweigh alu-pipe-circle has around the same gain as the 38x22cm sat-receiver case-cover.

It detects the 1,5m long 220v electricity cable (2 wires unshielded) of a hanging lamp from ca. 1meter. If I switch on the variable capacitor and turn it to fully 180 pF I can reduce the distance to just 15cm (as it would be without any antenna).

But yet it's more important getting better sensitivity.

[Funfinder]

@nelson
The frequency depends on the Hertz of the nearby higher voltage AC-current and is audible in the whole spectrum for human ears.

If there is no strong AC voltage field, it has only switch on or off.

To make this device much more sensitive I'll try to find a way to inject some threshold power into the antenna (FET Gate) so it just would take a very small plus of energy to make the FET switch on (or even off, if kept in balance between on or off).


@ goldfinder
Yes, the ion patterns will be the next big project, but still I think even with electrostatic you can detect metallic distortions in the EM-field because I tested this already with that silver ring. In this case was the metal between strong current field and static-detector; but the natural field has some special current - so the detection is more difficult, and especially variable by the ground conditions.

[Funfinder]

There should be a way to calculate the detectable electrostatic distance:

variables:
s=sensitivity of JFET or MOSFET integrated circuit
e=size of electrostatic detectors antenna
c=transmitter object size (lenght of power line etc.)
v=voltage
a=ampere
h=humidity in air
i=irritaton (ground, sun, ionosphere etc.)
b=blockades (mineralized stones, trees, soil etc.)

[WM6]

There should be a way to calculate the detectable electrostatic distance:

variables:
s=sensitivity of JFET or MOSFET integrated circuit
e=size of electrostatic detectors antenna
c=transmitter object size (lenght of power line etc.)
v=voltage
a=ampere
h=humidity in air
i=irritaton (ground, sun, ionosphere etc.)
b=blockades (mineralized stones, trees, soil etc.)

L=LRL users bias (conscious or unconscious)

[nelson]

Ok Funfinder, i got the idea, so i will sum to the friends who are building and testing this divice, to allow me to share expiriencies.
Regards
Nelson


@nelson
The frequency depends on the Hertz of the nearby higher voltage AC-current and is audible in the whole spectrum for human ears.

If there is no strong AC voltage field, it has only switch on or off.

To make this device much more sensitive I'll try to find a way to inject some threshold power into the antenna (FET Gate) so it just would take a very small plus of energy to make the FET switch on (or even off, if kept in balance between on or off).


@ goldfinder
Yes, the ion patterns will be the next big project, but still I think even with electrostatic you can detect metallic distortions in the EM-field because I tested this already with that silver ring. In this case was the metal between strong current field and static-detector; but the natural field has some special current - so the detection is more difficult, and especially variable by the ground conditions.

[Funfinder]

@ Geo
Thank you for your test. You also can rub a plastic ruler somewhere to get a pure electrostatic field.


@ nelson
The best would be you construct it on a still changeable test-basis if we will find further improvements.


@ all
There is two diferent sistems in working LRL devices :

1- The ABSORBTIVE -it absorbs the electromagnetic fields produced by LTA buried metals. It is scientific information that every buried metal(hig conductive) generates an anomaly in the electric and magnetic field of the Earth,iron not produce because its magnetic material,imagine the planet is one gigantic magneto.This diference we can detect with absorbtive Pistoldetektor device.

2-The Ionic/Electrostatic-it detects the electric field of the Earth,it measure and detect the anomalies produced by LTA buried metals generated in the eletric and magnetic field of the Earth.Some people say there is some negative ions or stactic charges around LTA buried metals,this is associated with the phenomena.


Afaik Esteban wrote this - the 2nd point concerns electrostatic.
So is somebody here with some lta buried object in garden who can test it with a electrostatic-detector?


btw. if the FET recognises electrostatic only from higher voltages would it be a good idea using a transformer coil like used for kV in TV units?

Usually transformers only work with AC but maybe for only switching the FET on or off also a DC current field could be transformed (0.1V into 100V - transformation factor 1000). Do Tesla coils have such a high factor?

The final construction would consist in a large plate or magnet-coil antenna (I guess the "around the PCB antenna" of Mineoro also is magnet-coil style) that is connected to the transformer coil for getting higher better recognisable voltages - finally attached to the JFET or MOSFET.

If we have the experimental proof there really is an usable electrostatic potential with LTA treasures we can perfectionate that kind of detector, otherwise we have to switch to the next one.

[detectoman]

caution funfinder, not came you fried your babys whit these
cuidado funfinder no vaya usted a freir sus ninos con eso
de perdido ponga alambrada de puas

[detectoman]

f.f, cual es la utilidad de ese complejo? solo visual? wowwwwwwww may be flyes electrocutation

[WM6]

.... otherwise we have to switch to the next one.



yes, would be better to switch to next one ...

[Funfinder]

Instead just making comments like some others here now I build a nice large antenna, using the both top-covers of two old DVD-players. :D

The size is about 47x50cm and for transportation just 25x50cm. Weight incl. detector ca. 1kg.


It's crazy - it already recognises if I move my fingers while holding and beeing near some electricity-cable!
Those now get detected from 1,5m.

And if I'm leaving the detector there it recognises when I'm coming near from around 50cm distance.

I'm curious what outside tests will show.

[WM6]

now I build a nice large antenna, using the both top-covers of two old DVD-players. :D



Dr Best send you compliments on this smart antenna. Me too.


Please dont destroy all kitchen appliances!

[J_Player]

Dr Best send you compliments on this smart antenna. Me too.


Please dont destroy all kitchen appliances!I remember Dr. Best got excellent results locating gold with his advanced pyramidal logarithmic quadro spiral antenna, using carbon litz technology.
But of course, his detectors were not simple static field detectors. They depended on ion migration.

In this application, it is easy to see that success for detecting static charge is improved by the size and shape of the detecting element. The formulas for a static field strength are well known for different sizes and shapes of conductors. For a 2 dimensional plane, size matters. The bigger, the better.

Scavenging parts from electronic enclosures or appliances to make a large antenna element will quickly reach a point where no further improvement can be made due to limited size of available appliances. For truly improved results I would suggest that you remove the roof of a car. This will make a large dished antenna element guaranteed to outperform any electronic enclosure or kitchen appliance parts for detecting static charges.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Instead just making comments like some others here now I build a nice large antenna, using the both top-covers of two old DVD-players. :D

The size is about 47x50cm and for transportation just 25x50cm. Weight incl. detector ca. 1kg.


It's crazy - it already recognises if I move my fingers while holding and beeing near some electricity-cable!
Those now get detected from 1,5m.

And if I'm leaving the detector there it recognises when I'm coming near from around 50cm distance.

I'm curious what outside tests will show.
I've heard that this type of construction is called "steampunk". :cool:
.
.

[fenixdigger]

COOL PICTURES.

[Funfinder]

@ Qiaozhi
Very cool E-guitar design - has something from H.R.Giger (Alien movie design).
But for what is this hitec pistol?

@ WM6
You confused DVD-Player with micro-wave! Or do you cook your salami-bread with the DVD? :D :lol:

@ J_Player
Absolutly correct - the larger the electrostatic electrode surface the better - and i think I reached already the useful portable size.

The gain doesn't double in sqare-cm but is more like this (round plate, electricity cable):

no antenna (5cm wire) 20cm
10cm wire: 40cm
20cm diameter plate: 70cm
30cm diameter: 1m
50cm (my new antenna): 1m50

So with an 1m antenna you could get around 2m but for outside usage it starts to get problematically (especially if its windy) and really heavy. So the reasonable maximum size is reached.

_______________________________

Anyway - Morgan and Esteban pointed me/us in direction electrostatic so I want to find out if it works or not. Otherwise we can't rely on any information here!

The new test has shown that the holding person of such an electrostatic detector also works as an antenna - the same if a person with sensitive MD has a shovel in his other hand.

Therefore it could become problematically to construct a very sensitive detector that can recognise positive and negative static fields - it always would or could detect the holding person.

Perhaps in the future I use this new antenna as a shield while the real antenna is in front of it. Electrostatic works like loaded capacitors so the antenna also should look like such.

If I would skip the whole "electrostatic stuff" for now I would be never be shure if it works or not, so even that I'm more curious how the PD passive receiver works I hope that I find a way to make the FETs recognition more sensitive and better positive-negative static recognisable.

Therefore perhaps I build this circuit again and see what further improvements still could be made. Adding a mVU-Meter, a transformer coil to the FET and other signal-amplificaton stuff.

Static Sound increases if treasure is near

Well, so the field above the treasure is positively charged, while the detector holding person is negative grounded?

As you can see - still too many important questions we need answers for.

[Funfinder]

btw. I had already an electrostatic receiver!

It's a 2in1 wiresearcher from multiTEC (Made in China, ca. 10 years old) but it doesn't use FETs, just simple transistors (9014, C9014).

The windings are ca. 130 / 35.

The LED also is 2in1 with green and red light, depending if metal is near or with blinking if electricity flows in the cable.

[WM6]

The LED also is 2in1 with green and red light, depending if metal is near or with blinking if electricity flows in the cable.



Wonderful solution!

What about singing togheter with blinking?

[Funfinder]

@ WM6
What with singin' and blinkin' is? You're confusing this with disco detection by the light beam at night! :D Or ask Jan Plestenjak what is with singin', he sings at the moment at my Sat-TV. Or now: Ela - Glas Sirene - with a little bit blinkin' "bling bling" we better find with MDs than buying... :D


But now I found out what we really need is called: "field mill". It is the most sensitive electrostatic detector - down to 10v/meter while our detectors only have around 1kV.

Weather stations and airports use it to collect smallest changes in electrostatic field. But we need one that is not fixed to ground.


And I found a second important fact:

If this is not grounded, the electrostatic flows around a metallic object.
So the question is, how "untouched" the buried metal object remains within the ground by the electrostatic field and what effects the ion-imigration "halo" causes.


A person, standing on ground is negative loaded by influence (=electrostatic interaction).
And on cloudless sky there is 100 V/m to 300 V/m static charge. This can raise (at thunder and lightning) up to 25 - 35 kV/m. Ion concentration in air has also large differences.

btw. there are exists also alot mechanical electrostatic detectors - even the radioactive elements like Polonium had been detected by them long time ago by couple Curie, because of ionisating the air around. Those devices detecting the physical attraction force of strong electrostatic forces but are too sensitive for outside.

And I doubt the field mill alias rotation-voltmeter with it's little holes has enough sensitivity compared to a electrostatic-detector with 50x50cm antenna. It may be possible, if very sensitive parts are used, but we have to find it out. At least the difference between some 10volt/meter would detect the buried treasure alot better as some detector that only recognises changes of 1kV/m.

[WM6]

Hi Funfinder,

thanks for interesting wiki drawings.

It is someway wrong, valid only in case that Koerper is not isolated from soil. If it is isolated (eg PU soles) Koerper get positive charge (especially from windy, dry and hot air). You can easily check this by pocked radio layed on ground by bring your finger close to the antenna. It sounds nice leap sparks.

[Funfinder]

@ WM6
Correct, the grafic was from wikipedia, findable by inputting filename into google:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=K%C3%B6rper_im_elektrischen_Erdfeld.svg&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

exactly from this page, everyone really interrested in electrostatic should have read:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elektrostatisches_Feld_der_Erde

(no working website translator available ? - at least google & babelfish does not work)
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FElektrost atisches_Feld_der_Erde&sl=de&tl=en

I'm wearing shoes with PU soles but I'm not shure they really will isolate enough.

Some days ago I touched an electic fence for cattle and still had been electricuted. The sparks was ca. 3-5mm - so the voltage was around 10kV. No problem for me, also burned (nice technique for filigran brandings!) already little holes in my skin by putting alu-foil with a sharp edge over my plasma-ball. :D

I can try it with a pocket radio how good the isolation works.

But something else:
WM6, if you are really that good informed can you tell us how that "wire, pipe & power - detector" above could have been build just by some usual NPN-transistors?

And it really detects pure electrostatic, too, not just 220w ac, I've tested this already.

[WM6]

But something else:
WM6, if you are really that good informed can you tell us how that "wire, pipe & power - detector" above could have been build just by some usual NPN-transistors?

And it really detects pure electrostatic, too, not just 220w ac, I've tested this already.

FET or NPN, principle are the same. Read my post #13 in this thread. As you can build SW radio by 1 or by 11 transistors. Yes it can detect E Field, atmospheric charge (depend on antenna used) inclusive.

But right question is, does precious metals in soil expose detectable E. Field? Or even better: does precious metals on soil expose any detectable E. Field or detectable changing in atmospheric charge?

[Funfinder]

OK, thanx for the info, I will try to built something with PNPs.

This hi-amp BC547 circuit from your post#13 mainly detects all kind of electromagnetic radiation differences but I wonder if it's sensitive enough.


Your questions are absolutely legitime.
If the soil consists of relative dry sand like in deserts the electrostatic would "flow around" the metal so it should be detectable.

But most of the time it lies in earthy, mineralized etc. soil that "shortcuts" the buried metal as long as there has not build up some galvanic charge difference aka ionic interaction with the surrounding region.

And - more important, from what distance this is detectable if at all...

For shure the electrostatic field will induce something into the buried metal (similar like the eddy currents of usual MDs do) and this may charge it over a very long period so it gets a special electrostatic potential like a lightning rod can attract the flash.

But does this potential (we need to know what kind of potential it is exactly) has enough power for detection, especially for long range detection???

Building some ultra high sensitive multi radiation-detector is the one thing, but adjusting it another...

[Funfinder]

Long time no posts here - well I also was in holiday (emerald hunt in rila mountains :cool: ) but now we can continue our important LRL developments:

But first I have a question:

Someone here knows a simple but very effective modification of my circuit(s) so it is "swimming" inbetween the electrostatic field and will detect both "directions"?

But I would prefer to use the FET with this. It should detect the raise and fall of the electrostatic field out of an fixed and "silent zero-value".

I will try for finding a simple solution but if some here has a good idea it would save us precious time and you can proove how good are your electronic skills! :cool:

[Funfinder]

I found now the solution below.

It's more sensitive and it also recognises my hand from 10cm distance with little antenna.

Because of the capacitor it starts to "brt brt brt" - the faster, the more energy. This is not so good for listening to the original high voltage AC noises but the main purpose is to find both electrostatic charges.

Maybe I'll incorporate this circuit into the already existing one and then I'll have to find to attach the antennas or plates correct so it doesn't always detects me! :)

[mehdi]

hi funfinder
wonderful- i want to build the fet version but i am still suspense that can this shematic reality found gold underground? if it can so i am going to build it but if it not proper for find treasure underground please send me a good shematic and pcb of your best workable gold finder.( mehdi1m2m@yahoo.com )
regards
mehdi

[raff33]

hi funfinder
wonderful- i want to build the fet version but i am still suspense that can this shematic reality found gold underground? if it can so i am going to build it but if it not proper for find treasure underground please send me a good shematic and pcb of your best workable gold finder.( mehdi1m2m@yahoo.com )
regards
mehdi
Hi,
mehdi where are you from ? maybe help you............

[fenixdigger]

Hi Funfinder;

Any photos of the device?? Great info.

[mehdi]

hi raff33;
i am from iran
i am waiting for your help.....!
regards
mehdi

[raff33]

hi raff33;
i am from iran
i am waiting for your help.....!
regards
mehdi
Hi,
I send you a Private Messages (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/private.php)

[mehdi]

hi raff33
thanks but he dont reply to me.
i built the fet version but the led light every time!!!!!
where is the problem(s)?
thank you
mehdi

[Morgan]

hi raff33
thanks but he dont reply to me.
i built the fet version but the led light every time!!!!!
where is the problem(s)?
thank you
mehdi


Maybe you need to try this LRL outside from your home,becouse is very sensitive to electromagnetic fields,lights,TV,Computer,etc etc ...