A patent to detect substances by infrared like Esteban used. [Archive]

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Astrodetect

02-04-2010, 09:28 AM

Hi all
As I was researching the internet I came upon this patent which claims to identify substances by infrared, and is very similar to what Esteban has experienced. Also Mineoro is maybe using this system as well.......or Alonso....

This invention relates to a method and system for remote detection of a targeted substance by the appropriate application of a probing signal that induces molecular resonance in the target substance to create an identifiable signature or response. In the preferred embodiment, signals transmitted are an Infrared laser beam, amplitude modulated in the range of 100 kHz frequency. The probing signal stimulates molecular resonance of the target substance which produces characteristic electron signal responses that are detected by IR detectors. A software program is used to process the electrical response signals and to compare them with electrical response signals stored in a database of known substances, thus allowing the target substance to be identified. The system may also be used to locate targeted substances.
Claim:We claim:

1. An ion acoustic remote substance identification and location system, comprising; a. an ion acoustic voltage radiation source; b. means for ionizing an intermediate chemical toproduce a probing signal of a desired frequency and amplitude capable of propagating a voltage from said ion acoustic voltage radiation source to a desired target substance to produce non-destructive molecular resonance therein; c. means to transmitsaid voltage and said probing signal to a target substance to cause said target substance to undergo molecular resonance and produce a characteristic electrical response signal; d. means for detecting said electrical response signal produced by saidtarget substance; and, e. means to identify said target substance based on said electrical response signal detected by said means for detecting.

2. The remote substance identification and location system as recited in claim 1, further including means to locate said target substance based on the strength of said electrical response signal.

3. The remote substance identification and location system, as recited in claim 1 wherein said means for ionizing an intermediate chemical to produce said probing signal is an optical radiation source.

4. The remote substance identification and location system, as recited in claim 1 wherein said means to identify said target substance uses a first processing algorithm that processes said electrical response signals into characteristicpatterns to identify a target substance.

5. The remote substance identification and location system as, recited in claim 4 wherein said algorithm processes said electrical response signals into characteristic patterns using a fast Fourier transform.

6. A method of remote identification of a target substance, comprising the following steps: a. producing a voltage from an ion acoustic radiation source; b. producing a probing signal of a specific frequency and amplitude capable of causingmolecular resonance in a target substance; c. propagating said voltage and said probing signal to an area where a target substance may be located to create an electrical response signal from said target substance; d. detecting the electrical responsesignal from said target substance; and, e. interpreting said electrical response signal from said target substance to identify said target substance.

7. The method, as recited in claim 6, wherein said step (a) of producing a probing signal is accomplished by ionizing an intermediate substance.

8. The method, as recited in claim 7, wherein said probing signal is accomplished using an IR laser.

9. The method, as recited in claim 6, wherein said step (b) of producing a probing signal is accomplished using an optical radiation source.

10. The method, as recited in claim 6, wherein the step (e) of interpreting said electrical response signal to identify a target substance is accomplished using an algorithm used to interpret said electrical response signals from a targetsubstance.

11. The method, as recited in claim 10, wherein said algorithm signals are changed into characteristic patterns to identify a target substance.

12. The method, as recited in claim 11, wherein said electrical response signals are processed into characteristic patterns using a fast Fourier transform of a digitized signal.

13. The method, as recited in claim 11, wherein said fast Fourier transform is mathematically manipulated to produce an electrical signature for a target substance.

14. The method, as recited in claim 6, further including the step (f) of determining the location of a target substance using triangulation between two said receivers.

15. The method, as recited in claim 14, wherein said electrical response signal is detected by two said IR detectors.

16. The method, as recited in claim 6, further step (f) wherein the location of a substance is determined by at least one plasma detector.

17. The method, as recited in claim 16, wherein said plasma detector includes an IR diode.

Description
BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

1. Field of the Invention

The present invention relates generally to methods and systems for determining the presence of a chemical element or compound, and more particularly, to such methods and systems that stimulate substances at selected frequencies of resonance, to produce characteristic patterns of emission that can be detected locally or from a remote distance to determine the identity and location of the substance.

2. Description of the Related Art:

A number of patents have been issued that relate to techniques for relatively short-ranged location systems, and most are designed to find a particular class of substances. Typical of these are U.S. Pat. Nos. 5,159,617, and 5,233,200, issuedto King et al., and Buess, et al., respectively. These patents typically relate to substances that contain Nitrogen, and generally use electromagnetic fields to disturb atomic structures, and measure the resulting emissions, as the atoms return tonormal. Compared to the proposed method disclosed herein, these techniques are extremely limited, both in type of substances that can be detected, and in detection distance.

Means of stimulating substances artificially are part of the present invention. Also, it has been found, by the present inventors, that substance emitted noise signals require interpretation in order to be useful for substance identification. Means to interpret substance generated noise is also an important part of this invention.

SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

It is an object of the present invention to provide a method and system for identifying and locating a targeted substance either locally or remotely.

It is another object of the present invention to provide such a method and system that does not destroy or damage the targeted substance.

These and other objects of the present invention are met by a remote substance identification and location method and system disclosed herein that uses an ionization means used to ionize an intermediate chemical to produce a probing signal, alsocalled a plasma, used to simulate and sense the response from a desired substance located in a target area. The intermediate chemical can be any chemical that undergoes ionization caused by an IR laser beam source. The embodiment disclosed herein isused in an open area exposed to the atmosphere where the intermediate chemical is oxygen, or nitrogen. During use, the probing stimulating signal is aimed at or in the general direction of a desired target substance causing the target substance toundergo non-destructive molecular resonance to produce a characteristic electrical response field. The electrical response signal is then detected by IR detectors tuned to the same electromagnetic band as the intermediate chemical. The IR detectors areconnected to a preamp and an analog/digital converter which interfaces with a computer. Loaded into the memory of the computer is a software program that is programmed with a library of electrical response signals from known target substances using acalibration method a first algorithm. The software program includes a second algorithm that compares the received electrical response signals to electrical response signals from known substances to determine the identity and location of the targetsubstance.

In the preferred embodiment, the intermediate chemical is oxygen which is ionized by the IR laser beam source to create a single pulse-modulated plasma that causes molecular resonance in the target substance.

In one embodiment, the ionization means is an optical radiation source, such as an IR laser beam source. In another embodiment, the ionization means is a voltage radiation source, such as an antenna.

DESCRIPTION OF THE DRAWINGS

FIG. 1 is a simple block diagram of the method used for remote substance identification and location.

FIG. 2 is a diagram of the substance identification and location system disclosed depicting the use of both an omni-directional voltage radiation source and a uni-directional optical radiation source.

FIG. 3 is a diagram of the remote substance identification and location system disclosed herein depicting the use of an omni-directional voltage radiation source and a remotely operated electric field detector.

FIG. 4 is a diagram of the remote substance identification and location system that depicting the use of an omni-directional antenna that produces a probing signal and two plasma detectors that detect an electric stimulating signal.

FIG. 5 is a diagram of a remote substance identification and location system that used two plasma detectors both used to create probing signals and to detect an electric stimulating signal.

FIG. 6 is a sectional, side elevation view of a plasma detector used in the system.

FIG. 7 is a diagram of an optical based laser beam generator.

FIG. 8 is a combination schematic of the plasma detector and probe beam generator shown in FIGS. 6 and 7.

FIG. 9 is a schematic diagram of a wide-band sensor, and pre-amplifier used with the system shown in FIG. 6.

FIG. 10 is a flow diagram of the data processing algorithm used by the remote substance system for determining the substance signature of a known target substance.

FIG. 11 is a flow diagram of the data processing algorithm used by the remote substance identification system for determining the location of a target substance.

DESCRIPTION OF THE PREFERRED EMBODIMENT(S)

Disclosed herein and depicted in the accompanying FIGS. is a remote substance identification and location method and system 10 also referred to as Object Location by Electrical Response (OLER). The method, depicted generally in FIG. 1, includesa first step of creating a probing signal by ionizing an intermediate substance, propagating the probing signal to the area containing a target substance 70 which creates an electrical response field from the target substance, detecting the electricalresponse field from the target substance 70, and then analyzing the electrical response field to identify, and locate the target substance 70. FIG. 2 depicts an overall summary of the system 10 while FIGS. 3-5 depict three specific design applicationsof the system. FIGS. 6-9 are illustrations and schematic diagrams showing two types of plasma generators used in the system 10 while FIGS. 10 and 11 are flow diagrams of two software algorithms used by the system 10.

Remote identification and location of arbitrary molecular substances has long been a goal of many inventors, but has generally gone unfulfilled. Standard substance identification methods include laboratory techniques, such as Nuclear MagneticResonance, and Optical Spectrometry, but these methods provide no means of identifying substances in field conditions, except in astronomy, nor do they have distant location capability. The technique known as X-Ray Fluorescence (XRF) is being used infield work to find and measure certain substances, but the maximum range of XRF operation is a few inches, so it is not capable of remote monitoring, and is severely limited by range in locating objects. Other techniques that have been used include,x-ray, and acoustic means to measure density of a substance, and means of measuring earth conductivity anomalies, for buried objects. Probably the best method to date for locating certain substances is the animal sense of smell, but this method isobviously limited to substances that provide a smell.

The advantages of the system 10 disclosed herein over other systems found in the prior art is the ability to locate small or large amounts of target substances at different distances While some substances, of course, are stronger signal sourcesthan others, the system 10 may be adjusted to identify and locate a wide variety of different target substances. For example, gasoline is considered a relatively strong target source, and a tank of gasoline in an automobile can be detected a city blockaway. A tank-farm of gasoline can be detected more than 3 miles away.

The system 10 also offers a method of finding people buried in avalanches, and rubble, even finding dead bodies, and could be used in police searches for weapons, bombs, and narcotics. It could be used in mining to locate precious metals, andgems, though the technique may not penetrate deeply into the soil, and tests of soil penetration have not yet been made. The potential list of uses is long. Obvious important uses of the system 10 include means to alert security persons to presence ofplastic explosives that are extremely difficult to detect by other means.

Another advantage of the system 10 is its inherent safety. Detection methods do not require hazardous materials, such as nuclear sources, or other dangerous radiation. The electromagnetic radiation associated with the system 10 is hardly morethan a person experiences when walking across a carpet, and much less than one gets standing in sunlight.

Stimulation of a Target Substance

It is postulated that most, if not all, substances generate characteristic electrical response signals when stimulated with a "proper" electrical signal. These response signals, are low in frequency, and are electrically weak, which is to saythat their source impedance is extremely high even though their voltage levels may be moderate to high. Actual values are difficult to measure, and are not yet known, because an adequate model has not been built. Response signals have been found in the frequency band from nearly DC to approximately 200 MHz. It is anticipated that that frequency may be a limitation of the present instrumentation, rather than of the substances, or the propagation medium.

The system 10 uses a probing signal to simulate and sense a response from a desired substance located in a target area. The probing signal is produced by an ionization means that ionizes an intermediate chemical that is propagate, stimulate, andsense the target area. In the preferred embodiment, the intermediate chemical undergoes ionization caused by an IR laser beam source. It is postulated that the probing signal causes the resonance in the electron clouds in the molecules of theintermediate substance. It is accepted that all substances consist of combinations of atoms held together with shared electrons, commonly called valence electrons. In his book, The Nature of the Chemical Bond, Linus Pauling, explored the wave-likenature of electrons, and showed how, in chemical bonds, electrons form a stable waveform when considered as a mutual resonance of two waveforms. Now, electrons are charged particles, so it follows that they can be moved (attracted, or repelled) byelectric fields, and if the frequency of an alternating E field is adjusted, suitably, the resonant chemical bond will vibrate and eventually break causing an electron to be ejected, like a stone from a sling. The `Q` of the resonance is unknown, but itlikely is quite large, because a very small amount of energy, added over a relatively long time period, can create the effect. Moreover, resonances can be stimulated using one of many sub-harmonics. So, it follows that extremely low frequencies can beused to stimulate substances. Characteristic substance stimulation frequencies have been observed to be relatively stable over time, as compared to response signal signatures (see section on Detection).

Natural electrical noise can also stimulate these emissions, particularly on sunny days. The system-like signatures found in many substances may be observed during daytime hours without artificial stimulation. It has also been observed thatsome substances can be stimulated at, or near, harmonics of 60 Hz, when located near power lines.

Propagation

In the preferred embodiment disclosed herein, the propagation of the probing signal and the electrical response signal from the target substance takes place in air with a return current path through the earth, but not necessarily. Wherein, dueto natural presence of air atoms with orbital electrons, and ions, electrical response signals generated at one location can be transmitted through the ion/air "fluid" by physical shift, or vibration, of electrons, or ion particles, as described inplasma physics. This effect is similar to well known principles of acoustics, substituting electric field force for mechanical pressure. Like acoustics, the propagation medium is subject to ducting, that is, the formation of low-loss paths, such as thepropagation of sound across a lake. Lonngren, author of "Introduction to Physical Elements", generally describes ion acoustic waves having properties similar to those observed by the inventors, and it is expected that this propagation mode is a plasmaphysics phenomenon, perhaps like the Ion Acoustic Wave, but using the vibration of orbital electrons of air molecules, because light electrons would provide a higher propagation velocity, and response frequency than would heavier ions.

Unlike ordinary acoustics, the ions that provide the propagation are physically moved to generate plasma paths. This may be accomplished by either of two methods: 1. application of light at emission wavelengths of Oxygen (e.g. 820 nm), aspublished in the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics. Or, a simple grounded sharp pointed conductor will often work, particularly when ambient sunlight is present. Creation of a plasma path also requires application of an electric field that has afrequency that is very near to a resonant frequency of the substance being sought. The two signals, (stimulus and response) with a slowly varying phase relationship, create an effect like electrically polarized electrodes in a conductive fluid. When aplasma path is created, a minute current flows, and follows a path of least impedance between the stimulated substance and the transmitter. This may be a direct line, but will not always be so. If the path of least resistance passes through a wall, thelaws of dielectrics apply, and refraction may occur, changing the apparent direction of the path. In fact, the path may split into two, as has been observed, where one path can go directly through a door, and another through an air space beside thedoor, simultaneously. In a preferred embodiment, an infrared (IR) laser is used to trigger a stimulating plasma path, stimulate the target substance, and detect the electrical response, all in a single instrument.

Additional theoretical work has been done to better understand the propagation phenomenon in terms of quantum physics. A simplified explanation likens the air molecules to tiny energy-wells, physically separated in space. IR energy, such assunlight, partially fills the wells making it easy for energy from a source, such as stimulated substance molecules, to travel in any direction, depending upon the potential gradient, like balls on the slope of a tilted surface.

Also by

Detection of the Electrical Response Signal

Once a path, or duct, has been set-up using the electrical fields generated by the transmitter, and its associated antenna, it is possible to detect the electric response signals using one of several types of sensors designed for that purpose. In the preferred embodiment, an infrared (IR) laser beam source is used that emits in the IR band of 820 nm caused by oxygen molecules in the air. The electrical response signals from the target substance are narrow pulses emitted from the orbitalelectrons of the oxygen molecules as they pass charges along the `path`, and are particularly strong in the vicinity of the transmit antenna element, where the current is most concentrated. The IR detector integrates the pulses forming an analog of thecurrent that passes along the path. Detection is most sensitive, if the IR detector is mounted at a right-angle to the path, but not inside the path.

The currents that flow are generated by electrical actions of orbital valence electrons, as they continually seek a stable relationship with themselves and with the disrupting influences of external fields. It should be understood that othersensors may be used to detect these fields, including electric, and magnetic field sensors, to detect the target substance by its stimulated noise field, or to detect the path by its electromagnetic noise field. For example, some of these noise fieldsensors have been built, and used with degrees of success, however they tend to suffer from electrical isolation problems that the IR current sensors do not, because of inherent isolation by optical coupling. The only problems experienced with the IRdetectors are sensitivity to sunlight, and to 60 Hz interference related to incandescent lighting. These problems may be solved using differential sensors, or by placing the sensors inside of opaque housings.

Signals can also be optically detected directly, using an Infrared (IR) detector of a suitable sensitive wave-length, 823 nm is ideal. Ionized paths create an IR `glow` that can be detected by looking directly in the direction of a substance,after a `path` has been set-up. This glow may be observed on the ground above, or near, location of the buried object(s). This type of detection may be useful for certain applications, but may suffer from solar noise problems. Implementation of thisdetection method is similar in design to that described herein, but using the IR diode sensor directed toward the suspected location of the `glow.` It may also be practical to build a device that will allow the human eye to observe the `glow`.

FIG. 8 shows a typical plasma sensor mechanical construction, with a schematic diagram of a sensor, and a preamplifier, which operates in the acoustic frequency band (up to 100 kHz). FIG. 9 shows a schematic diagram of a wide-band sensor (up to250 MHz). The PIN Diode shown in FIG. 9 replaces the IR photo-transistor shown in FIG. 8.

Signal Interpretation, and Calibration

The electric response signals emitted from target substances require interpretation before they can be used to identify and locate the target substance. The electrical response signal, without interpretation, appears generally as random noise. This is partly because the signals are themselves responses to random noise inputs. A novel feature of the invention is the algorithm disclosed below for interpreting the electrical response signals of target substance molecules.

Substances generally have a finite set of electron energy `states`, many of which are not stable. When disturbed by a transient field, the substance responds by executing a pattern of energy jumps, until an equilibrium is reached. By quantumelectronic theory, this activity involves only that set of energy states, but does not always involve them all. Identification of target substances, using this method, involves a signal processing algorithm that interprets substance noise as electronstate activity, and includes a technique for measuring the characteristic responses of a target substance. This can be done under various conditions, to develop a reference signature which can be used as a match-filter to recognize signals from thetarget substance.

The first algorithm processes noise-like signals into characteristic patterns that are used to identify substances. As depicted in FIG. 10, the first algorithm uses a Fast Fourier Transform (FFT), of a digitized signal, and performs a sequenceof mathematical manipulations to produce a "signature" for the target substance. The signature is a spectrum-like table of responses averaged over variables of time, temperature, stimulations, etc. During the detection step, which is used in a secondalgorithm and shown in FIG. 11, the substance signature created during the search, is compared with similarly processed raw data received from the sensors. The comparison process produces a series of magnitudes that represent a likelihood that signalsfrom a target substance are present.

An important aspect of the system 10 is the determination of the signature signal from a target substance. One method used to determine the signature signal is to measure and compare the changes in the electrical responses with and without thetarget substance in the target field. By subtracting the electrical response taken without the target substance from the electrical responses taken with the target substance, the actual electrical response from the target may be ascertained.

Another possible method used to determine the electrical signature of a target substance is to use a calibration chamber. A calibration chamber is made of a high-strength dielectric, such as glass, that completely surrounds the substance sample. A single conductor is used that allows an Infrared detector to monitor current flowing through a path-of-least-impedance. The substance sample may be stimulated with electrical fields, or by modulated infrared light, which is the preferred method usedherein. The act of calibration involves a sequence of measurements whereby the substance's signature is determined.

Substance "signatures", as defined in this disclosure, are of two types, 1) Transmit Frequencies that cause resonant responses in substances, and 2) characteristic emissions, of electrical signals, from substances when they are stimulated at afrequency of resonance. The first type of signature is discussed in the above paragraph titled "Stimulation". The second type is discussed in the following paragraphs.

Experimental work has shown that substance, Type 2, signatures may change over time. Work remains to determine what parameters cause the observed changes, but theoretical considerations make temperature, and barometric pressure, to be suspects. Other possibilities include the concentrations of various gasses in the air-mixture, such as oxygen, nitrogen, and carbon dioxide. In a worst-case scenario, it may be necessary to do periodic in-situ calibrations using a known sample of the targetsubstance.

Recent work with the high-frequency techniques have resulted in a simplified detection algorithm, due partly to better separation of substance response frequencies. The changed algorithm Flow Diagrams are shown in FIGS. 8 and 9.

System Considerations

For some requirements it may be desirable to have a fixed omni-directional receiver antenna. For those applications, a receiver can be combined into the transmitter in such a way that any path that sets-up will be detected by the presence of acharacteristic current flowing in the transmit antenna feed circuit. It will be possible to design such a system to continually monitor for the presence of any given substance, and provide warning signals when such presence is detected. A possiblescenario could be to transmit multiple stimulation signals, and monitor for the response signal(s), that indicate the presence of selected target substances. Automatic location of an intruding target substance is possible with increased complexity.

Operation Description

FIG. 2 depicts a first embodiment of the system 10 that uses two receivers 20 that determine the target substance location by triangulation. An operator first selects a stimulus frequency, based upon the signature signal analysis of the target substance 70 to be located, and adjusts signal source 30 to provide an IR signal 32 of the desired modulated frequency and amplitude. The IR signal is transmitted by an voltage radiation source such as an antenna 40 or to an optical radiation source 60,such as an ionizing IR laser beam source. Upon activation of the antenna 55, or optical radiation source 60, a probing signal 25 is produced that stimulates the target substance 70 and causes it to generate an electrical response field 80. Theelectrical response field 80 causes a local disturbance field 85 in the earth ground 15 by electric induction, that is opposite in phase to the electrical response field 80, thus creating a local disturbance field 85. The electrical response field 80and the local disturbance field 85 thus effectively create a dipole antenna. Two ion-plasmas 25 and 27 are formed that generate two signal paths, so that currents flow through the air 96 to the transmitter terminal 55. Note that the impedance of theEarth's soil is orders of magnitude lower than the impedance of the air propagation medium, so that ground impedance losses from the ground current 22 may be neglected. Transmit elements 33, and 37 (not shown in FIG. 2) provide ground returnconnections, so that current loops are completed back to the target substance 70. This atmospheric current proceeds as charges are passed from molecule, to molecule. Each transfer creates a pulse at InfraRed wavelengths, producing signals which may besensed by two IR detectors 65. The two IR detectors 65 are connected to a preamp 67 that amplifies the signals and digitalizes them for further processing by a data processor 75. The first processing algorithm 66, shown in FIG. 10, is used to detectthe signature signals that are shown to the operator on display 90.

A second embodiment of the system 10' is shown in FIG. 3. Several means exist of instrumenting the OLER effect, so that multiple options exist for optimizing a system design. FIG. 2 shows a system 10 that senses two ion plasma paths 25, 27, anddetermines the position of a target substance 70 by remote triangulation. In FIG. 3, a single plasma path 25 and an electrical field detector 95 are used. Such a system 10' might be used with a portable electrical field sensor 95, and a fixedplasma-path sensor, not shown. The plasma detector (not shown) could sense the direction of the substance, and the combination of the two sensors could be used to guide an operator to the exact location. The propagation velocity for the electricalfield is much faster (light speed) than the plasma path (acoustic velocity), so a delay/correlation technique might be used to determine the approximate range of the target substance.

A third embodiment of the system 10'' is depicted in FIG. 4 that includes two plasma detectors 50, 50' that are also used together to determine target position by means of triangulation. The system 10' can be used with, or without, a stimulationtransmitter, which is useful if searches must be conducted at night. Hardware configuration of such a system 10'', without transmitter, is shown in FIG. 5. The plasma detectors 50 may be hand-held, or tripod mounted. A typical mechanical configurationof a plasma detector 50 is shown in FIG. 6, with a circuit diagram depicted in FIGS. 7 and 8.

As shown in FIG. 7, the plasma detector 50 includes an infrared (IR) diode 51 mounted in a short tube 52 made preferably of stainless steel, or copper. The infrared light diode 51 produces IR light that ionizes oxygen molecules 53 inside thetube 52, generating a conductive plasma 54 within, and in front of the tubing. The tube 52 is electrically connected to a ground, or usable substitute such as the human body. This plasma 54 acts to provide a terminal for connecting to substancesignals, much like a metallic terminal in a conductive fluid, except that the plasma is directional. When potentials are present, currents flow, and in the plasma as currents flow, pulses of IR light are emitted. These pulses are detected by thephoto-transistor 57, mounted on the distal end of the tube 52 at a right-angle to the plasma 54. FIG. 8 is an electrical schematic of the plasma detector 50. The photo-transistor 57 has a sensitivity that peaks in the IR range, according to theemission spectrum of Oxygen (822 nm is ideal). The photo-transistor 57, in its circuit, detects the quasi-noise signals of stimulated substances in the pointing direction of the plasma probe. The signals are amplified, and passed to the analog todigital Computer interface, where signals are processed as described in the section on signal interpretation. Display can be as simple as meter deflections, or as sophisticated as an intensity vs. position plot, depending upon design requirements,cost, and complexity.

An IR sensing PIN code shown in FIG. 9, with appropriate circuitry, may be substituted for the photo-transistor shown in FIG. 6, in order to obtain a wider operating band-width. The circuit, shown in FIG. 9, provides usable signal band-width to200 MHz. It appears that Signal-to-Noise Ratio is better at the higher RF frequencies.

So now let's study this instrument and maybe we can build something equivalent. Also for the skeptics here is some information which is VERY similar to what Esteban and others have been saying ALL this time.
Regards

ivconic

02-04-2010, 10:00 AM

ivconic

02-04-2010, 10:03 AM

hung

02-04-2010, 10:07 AM

If you visit uspto.gov.net and search for a while; you can find bunch of weird patents.
Nobody can stop you to patent anything as long as you can pay the process of patenting. On contrary; they will be very happy to have more of such "customers" ! :lol:

One of those 'weird' patents about long range locating and analysing buried objects was built and it is currently being used by the U.S. Army.

Sorry, but I won't tell you which one...:lol:

Astrodetect

02-04-2010, 10:08 AM

http://totallyabsurd.com/absurd.htm

http://www.bpmlegal.com/weird.html

http://www.invention-protection.com/ip/inventor_resources/interesting_patents.html

http://www.ozzu.com/general-discussion/weird-patents-inventions-t160.html

.....

and so on...and so on....

:lol::lol::lol:

Hi Ivconic
I dont think you studied enough this patent to seriously consider what it does. This concept exists and can be proved scientifically also.
Regards

ivconic

02-04-2010, 10:13 AM

ivconic

02-04-2010, 10:15 AM

One of those 'weird' patents about long range locating and analysing buried objects was built and it is currently being used by the U.S. Army.

Sorry, but I won't tell you which one...:lol:

Yeah, sure, so as LRL bomb detector...

ivconic

02-04-2010, 10:20 AM

Only concept i can accept, relating IR, could be IR (with relative remotely range) temperature monitoring. So theory would be; if there is huge metal deposit in soil - temperature will change on soil surface, over that place. So it is possible to observe, monitor and read those temperature changes and variations with use of some IR based device..
"US army" as Hung said, could possibly have in use such or similar device and i don't have doubts in that..

ivconic

02-04-2010, 10:23 AM

But than again...many other factors (along as metal deposits) can also affects soil surface temperature...
So how to be sure what's underground at that spot?
Was it metal deposit, was it huge cavity, was it water deposit..???

ivconic

02-04-2010, 10:26 AM

So even than, those types of devices do have pretty limited area of use..US army can have such device along with other devices. At specific conditions such device can do descent job, no doubts in that..

WM6

02-04-2010, 11:02 AM

.US army can have such device along with other devices. At specific conditions such device can do descent job, no doubts in that..

Just checked: US Army do not use nor own such devices.

hung

02-04-2010, 11:27 AM

Just checked: US Army do not use nor own such devices.

Now skepthics can't even read anymore?
I said 'one of those weird patents'.
Does not necessarily mean it's IR.
It necessarily means it's weird... Well, to skepthics logic, of course.:razz:

Qiaozhi

02-04-2010, 11:33 AM

WM6

02-04-2010, 11:42 AM

It necessarily means it's weird... Well, to skepthics logic, of course.:razz:

Hung, I am not sceptic. I am believer. I believe that you're wrong

mindfree

02-04-2010, 11:56 AM

Do you have the patent number?
Hi,
Googling any phrase from patent text can get the full patent details.

Here it is
US Patent 7288927 - Remote substance identification and location method and system

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7288927/description.html

HTH

Esteban

02-04-2010, 12:08 PM

I am not saying detection of substances by infrared is complete bogus idea, i am just pointing you on fact that it is not necessary true and real all what have been patented so far.
However; detection of substances by infrared is not usable technique in our domain - exploring buried metals etc..
How could you possibly expect IR waves to penetrate the soil?
Or...you gonna repeat same old theory about airborne substances, especially over the areas with buried metal?

Maybe only small portion of IR can penetrate the soil, but the modulated IR ray collect the distortion in the place. I know you don't have experience in it, so, for you is impossible. :lol: And I can added more: maybe this one of better electronic LRL procedures.

Esteban

02-04-2010, 12:14 PM

Google patents, here you can downloaded the pdf.

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=wa2RAAAAEBAJ&dq=7288927

Esteban

02-04-2010, 12:28 PM

The system used in patent is modulated, as mine system. But you don't need receiver photodiode, because the total voltage in receiver (the monitor, a simple FM radio) changes and voilÃ¡! :razz:

ivconic

02-04-2010, 01:05 PM

Maybe only small portion of IR can penetrate the soil, but the modulated IR ray collect the distortion in the place. I know you don't have experience in it, so, for you is impossible. :lol: And I can added more: maybe this one of better electronic LRL procedures.

I think i understand what are you meaning by that. Only i don't understand what kind of "distortion" you are talking about? Distortion in earth magnetic field? Distortion in temperature? Distortion in moisture?
What kind of distortion in/on soil is detectable with IR waves?
If you clear up this, than it would be more easy to understand the rest of your ideas.

Esteban

02-04-2010, 01:20 PM

I think i understand what are you meaning by that. Only i don't understand what kind of "distortion" you are talking about? Distortion in earth magnetic field? Distortion in temperature? Distortion in moisture?
What kind of distortion in/on soil is detectable with IR waves?
If you clear up this, than it would be more easy to understand the rest of your ideas.

The distortion is a change in electrical/magnetic/chemist/temp characteristics in soil where is buried good conductive metal. So, the "phenomenon" is some complex. With IR I found (in my patio) not very old item (a coin) buried for only few years, but not at depth. In few years isn't creates the enough electric field or "phenomenon", called by others "halo". But a item buried for 100 years can be detected at more depth. But this isn't mean that a item buried for 1,000 years can be detectable X 10 in depth. I think the limit for a single coin is 75 cm for IR. But IR laser can be good. Maybe.

Astrodetect

02-04-2010, 01:51 PM

Esteban

02-04-2010, 02:46 PM

As I understand it the infrared modulated beam stimulates the substance to be detected by molecular resonance which in turn produces a characteristic electric response signal.
The IR beam causes a resonance in the electron clouds in the molecules of the air.
The electrons are charged particles which can be moved (attracted or repelled) by external electric fields and if the frequency of the ac electric field is adjusted suitably in frequency and amplitude, then this resonance will cause the object or substance to give off electrons so there is an electrical emission in the air surrounding it.This is the phenomenon which is being detected.
Regards

The patent refers molecular resonance. Many years ago Alonso use the words "molecular detection". And born many experiments, the most workable systems. The metal buried many years also causes his own "clouds", or particular "atmosphere" around the target, called by us "phenomenon".

WM6

02-04-2010, 02:58 PM

As I understand it the infrared modulated beam stimulates the substance to be detected by molecular resonance which in turn produces a characteristic electric response signal.
The IR beam causes a resonance in the electron clouds in the molecules of the air.
The electrons are charged particles which can be moved (attracted or repelled) by external electric fields and if the frequency of the ac electric field is adjusted suitably in frequency and amplitude, then this resonance will cause the object or substance to give off electrons so there is an electrical emission in the air surrounding it.This is the phenomenon which is being detected.

Your undestanding is correct. In the fifties scientist did an experiment so that red laser beam was modulated by voice of Marilyn Monroe and all the gold ingots in Fort Knox exposed to red laser beam have experienced an extrasensoric erection. Fresh stored gold ingots rise to 46 Â°, but gold ingots more than 10 years in storage even as much as 87 Â° of rising.

WM6

02-04-2010, 03:17 PM

The metal buried many years also causes his own "clouds", or particular "atmosphere" around the target, called by us "phenomenon".

Interesting, by us the same thing is called "aberration".

J_Player

02-04-2010, 03:44 PM

The patent refers molecular resonance. Many years ago Alonso use the words "molecular detection". And born many experiments, the most workable systems. The metal buried many years also causes his own "clouds", or particular "atmosphere" around the target, called by us "phenomenon".Hi Esteban,
Are you defining the "phenomenon" you refer to as "clouds" that are produced in the air around long-time buried metals?

Best wishes,
J_P

Carl-NC

02-04-2010, 03:54 PM

There are some "tells" in this patent. Can anyone find them?

J_Player

02-05-2010, 12:43 AM

There are some "tells" in this patent. Can anyone find them?"tells"?
It seems to me they are more than "tells". They tell the whole story of what is being patented:

1. To start with, "other publications" and "prior art" shown in this patent come from a background of using spectroscopic methods to measure unknown materials with an emphasis on detecting bio-hazard gasses and explosives. The material being identified is either in the air, or placed in a testing location for a sample to be measured. Samples to be tested include gasses in the air and solid objects.

2. The claims in the patent tell a lot about what his idea is. His claims begin with three well known laser methods using tunable lasers, absorption spectroscopy, and triangulation, then incorporate a new method to transmit data from the sample target material. He is claiming rights to incorporate a tube located in his apparatus containing an 820nm laser to ionize oxygen to create a plasma that can be used in sending the signal to be collected and processed in a digitizer. The data collected from the target is digitized and combined with a separate signal returned from the target, then both signals are processed digitally to determine distance and identify the substance the laser spot is focused on using spectrometry methods.

3. The operating description at the bottom gives the final "tells".
The invention he patented is able to tell the distance of a target in the path of a laser by using triangulation methods that require two sensors to perform the triangulation. One case allows triangulation by a single sensor as long as a second sensing location separated by some distance is multiplexed into the light sensor. He even gives the schematics used for using a PIN diode or a phototransistor.

In his claims, the inventor specifies that:
A. An IR laser beam is AM modulated at about 100 KHz and held on the target in the line of sight of the beam in order to energize the sample to be identified. An additional "tell" is the author of the patent says other sources such as sunlight will also energize the target. This points us in the direction of photoacoustic spectroscopy, which he is already including in his methodology for this patent application.
B. The returned signal received from one or more light sensors is digitized and sent to a signal processor that compares the two return paths to extract the distance from triangulation data. It then finds the spectral peaks by using a fast Fourier transform and compares them digitally to known spectral signatures in order to see if a match is found for a known substance.
C. 820 nm laser-ionized oxygen is a feature of his claims that is used as an intermediate chemical in producing a signal that results in data found at the sample being identified.

Those are the "tells" I found in the patent. I didn't see any part about using an IR LED pulsed in the air with a 400 Hz square wave or an FM radio held near the power supply as an audio receiver to determine the spectral analysis or distance of the target material. Should we tell the inventor there is an easier way to determine what material he found at a distance?

Best wishes,
J_P

Carl-NC

02-05-2010, 07:23 AM

J_Player

02-05-2010, 07:53 AM

You mention a few of the tells I noticed, but there's one that stands out:

"the ionization means is an optical radiation source, such as an IR laser beam source."

Infrared is not a frequency band that will ionize. Any jr level patent examiner should have noticed this and said, "Uh, wait a second... do you actually know what you are talking about?"

- CarlYes, of course.
We cannot expect IR will ionize the target material. It would take a higher energy such as exposing the target to a radioactive source, or other ionizing radiation. This is what raises some curiosity about his "ionized oxygen" container, which he calls the "intermediate" ionized plasma that communicates with the target material. I was wondering if it ever worked in practice. Actually I haven't ever seen any evidence of this method being used in the years since this patent was issued.

I still wonder ... "does it work?"

I suppose if it did work, there are governments all over the world that would want to use it to identify contraband and to locate explosives, as well as finding where there are dangerous bio-hazard fumes in the air. This is a multi-billion dollar industry. A little checking will show that the inventor John Nutting is the owner of a small business with less than 4 employees, and does not appear to have become rich from producing his locator for the industries that desperately need what he claims it does. :|

Oh well. Maybe he should have tried the method of an LED pulsed at 400 Hz with an FM radio held close to hear and identify materials from a distance. This would have made him successful, right?

Best wishes,
J_P

WM6

02-05-2010, 09:28 AM

Just comming!

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Last solution in Bio LRL approach.

By high disturbances you can simply RESET it.

Two way detecting jewerly up to 50m. One way unlimited (honestly to say limited only by curved Earth surface).

Gold can be easily traced on the Month or Mars.

Very extra sensitive, as you can evidently see on promotional paper.

Can not be reverse engineered.

Speaking version in development.

Details in person at 09090 609 522.

hung

02-05-2010, 11:13 AM

"the ionization means is an optical radiation source, such as an IR laser beam source."

Infrared is not a frequency band that will ionize. Any jr level patent examiner should have noticed this and said, "Uh, wait a second... do you actually know what you are talking about?"

- Carl
This is not exactly what he is stating in the patent.

What he is claiming is that trough resonance, an IR laser beam can be used to develop wave packets that undergo non destructive molecular resonance producing a characteristic electrical field.

Experiments already have been performed employing extreme short pulses to ionize Helium according to the phase of IR and of the pulses. When this is done, by resonance, an excitation state is reached and packets of electron waves are developed. These pulses are extremely short, in the femto to atto seconds range, I believe.

Then this electrical signal response is detected by the IR sensor which is tuned to the same EM band as the intermediate chemical, in this case, oxygen or nitrogen.

By a related process in the optical realm , in the 'cameras see gold' thread over Tnet I told you about the IR release from the earth's surface in the cooling process which interacts with tellurics and its magnetic fields. These yields 'optical' activity in the IR band that can be seen trough a IR filter attached to a camera and enhanced with the algorithms of some photo editors.

Geo

02-05-2010, 11:16 AM

Just comming!

Dr. Bests Ultimate BIO LRL pistol withOO remote coil.

Last solution in Bio LRL approach.

By high disturbances you can simply RESET it.

Two way detecting jewerly up to 50m. One way unlimited (honestly to say limited only by curved Earth surface).

Gold can be easily traced on the Month or Mars.

Very extra sensitive, as you can evidently see on promotional paper.

Can not be reverse engineered.

Speaking version in development.

Details in person at 09090 609 522.

So, when i say that LRL works, you don't believe me:lol:

Press Reset:lol::lol:
I think that Bio LRLs are better than simple LRL:lol::lol:

WM6

02-05-2010, 12:15 PM

So, when i say that LRL works, you don't believe me:lol:

Press Reset:lol::lol:
I think that Bio LRLs are better than simple LRL:lol::lol:

I believe Geo, I am avare in LRL for sure, but only in dr. Best LRL-s, not in comic mineoro creations.

You must try dr. Best design once, I am now awaiting speaking version of dr. Best BIO pistols with Reset and memory reader.

Esteban

02-05-2010, 12:17 PM

Hi Esteban,
Are you defining the "phenomenon" you refer to as "clouds" that are produced in the air around long-time buried metals?

Best wishes,
J_P

Around the good conductive item buried for long time are a kind of "cloud", but this "cloud" seems an electrical/magnetic field. In the air? Don't know. But around the buried item. When you dig the item you can't detect out anymore. While buried for several years, the "thing" that accompanies it "helps" the detection. Is the secondary effect, not only the metal per se. Ferrous terrain mask also this detection.

Last discovery made by an owner of pistol. On its field test was a sheet of newspaper (colour and B&W) and this masked the detection at distance. Seems that the compounds of different inks are a problem. But, of course, luckily, you not going to go around with newspaper scattered. :lol:

Esteban

02-05-2010, 12:28 PM

WM6

02-05-2010, 12:33 PM

... a sheet of newspaper (colour and B&W) and this masked the detection at distance. Seems that the compounds of different inks are a problem. :lol:

Astral constelations are problem, newspaper inks are problem, indigestions are problem, only non-working LRL creations are not problem.

Qiaozhi

02-05-2010, 01:02 PM

What he is claiming is that trough resonance, an IR laser beam can be used to develop wave packets that undergo non destructive molecular resonance producing a characteristic electrical field.

These yields 'optical' activity in the IR band that can be seen trough a IR filter attached to a camera and enhanced with the algorithms of some photo editors.
I assume you meant to say "through" and not "trough". A trough is something that farmers used to feed animals ... but maybe "trough resonance" could makes sense, if it was filled with water. Although I'm not sure if any wave packets would undergo non destructive molecular resonance producing a characteristic electrical field. :rolleyes:

J_Player

02-05-2010, 01:12 PM

Around the good conductive item buried for long time are a kind of "cloud", but this "cloud" seems an electrical/magnetic field. In the air? Don't know. But around the buried item. When you dig the item you can't detect out anymore. While buried for several years, the "thing" that accompanies it "helps" the detection. Is the secondary effect, not only the metal per se. Ferrous terrain mask also this detection.

Last discovery made by an owner of pistol. On its field test was a sheet of newspaper (colour and B&W) and this masked the detection at distance. Seems that the compounds of different inks are a problem. But, of course, luckily, you not going to go around with newspaper scattered. :lol:Hi Esteban,
Currently, your definition of what you call the "phenomenon" is not known to be made of ions, or to be in the air.
It is only known to be a "cloud" that seems an electrical/magnetic field around a buried item. Is this correct?

Best wishes,
J_P

WM6

02-05-2010, 01:15 PM

when a metallic object good conductor of heat and electricity are exposed to strong heat of the sun on a good day, this is detectable outside. Seems that emits "something"

This fact (thermionic emission) has already been used in the operation of electronic vacuum tubes (valves). Detecting is question of sensor vicinity and potential-energy barrier. Here can be more promising UV Scanner than IR LRL beamer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermionic_emission

Esteban

02-05-2010, 01:18 PM

Hi Esteban,
Currently, your definition of what you call the "phenomenon" is not known to be made of ions, or to be in the air.
It is only known to be a "cloud" that seems an electrical/magnetic field around a buried item. Is this correct?

Best wishes,
J_P

This I think. But, can the migration (or micro-migration) of metalic particles and chemist action with soil contributes with it? Can be this a sort of ionic exchange?

ivconic

02-05-2010, 01:26 PM

To Esteban and Hung;

now...i am following your explanations and one thing still not clear to me.

When you say that there is certain "echo" (or "distortion") phenomena around long time buried item , i am wandering does that phenomena come out from soil and it is detectable on soil surface.....OR
it is not coming out of soil, it stays in soil, respective to item size .
To make this question more clear, i draw simpified sketch to explain my question.
Sketch is presenting 1 gold coin at 1 meter depth in soil.
So...there is "echo" arround coin respective to coin size.
Case "A" is more logic to me (refering phenomena propagations) and if you agree on that than IR device SHOULD "penetrate" for 80cm's in soil to detect edge of phenomena. Right?
Case "B" is not so logic to me (refering phenomena propagations) and if you CLAIM this was the case than it is to expect IR device to detect phenomena on soil surface.

So...my question here is related to propagation of that phenomena ("echo", "hallo", "distortion"...);
What should be your explanation of phenomena propagation; case A or case B?
...
Because in many of your previous posts we could see claims about single coin detection at long distances (10,20,30 and more meters) and at high depths (1,2,3 and more meters).

So...if you were able to detect single coin at 1 meter depth than we have here two possible explanations;

1) LRL device can only detect phenomena on soil surface and it is propagated as on case B,

2) LRL device can detect phenomena IN soil no matter how wide and long phenomena was propagated arround buried coin. Case A.

So...i would like you to answer those questons a to explain your seeing of phenomena propagations..

Thanks in advance,
Regards!

ivconic

02-05-2010, 01:35 PM

"...Case "B" is not so logic to me (refering phenomena propagations) and if you CLAIM this was the case than it is to expect IR device to detect phenomena on soil surface..."

It is not logic to me because i will rather support theory of phenomena propagation showed in case A.

It is more logic to expect phenomena propagation arround item to be concentric, and if we take this as ultimate TRUTH than single coin at 1 meter depth can "produce" phenomena ONLY IN LIMITED range...few cm's arround item surface and it can NOT REACH soil surface - no way! So further, if this is TRUE than your LRL MUST "penetrate" soil for 80cm's to detect edge of phenomena...
Agree?

ivconic

02-05-2010, 01:41 PM

J_Player

02-05-2010, 01:59 PM

This I think. But, can the migration (or micro-migration) of metalic particles and chemist action with soil contributes with it? Can be this a sort of ionic exchange?I don't know.
I have never detected what you call the "phenomenon". The anomalies I know of where there are buried metals take different forms depending on the metal and the soil it is in as well as a few other influences. These anomalies can be measured with a number of different instruments. But I never saw any instrument shaped like a pistol with a large coil or a zahori detect soil with buried metal from a distance to the side more than about a half meter.

Of course, there is chemical action that releases metal ions from the metal surface if buried metal is corroding. But I have no way to know if this contributes to the phenomenon that you claim to detect at a distance from the side. Maybe if I knew exactly what electrical property of the "Phenomenon cloud" area you are detecting, I could provide some clue.

Best wishes,
J_P

WM6

02-05-2010, 02:07 PM

all previous claims about single coin detection at large depths were LIES...

What else? Quasi-scientific LIES are bestseller, not comic LRL creations.

ivconic

02-05-2010, 02:12 PM

I don't know.
I have never detected what you call the "phenomenon". The anomalies I know of where there are buried metals take different forms depending on the metal and the soil it is in as well as a few other influences. These anomalies can be measured with a number of different instruments. But I never saw any instrument shaped like a pistol with a large coil or a zahori detect soil with buried metal from a distance to the side more than about a half meter.

If course, there is chemical action that releases metal ions from the surface of corroding buried metal. But I have no way to know if this contributes to the phenomenon that you claim to detect at a distance from the side. Maybe if I knew exactly what electrical property of the "Phenomenon cloud" area you are detecting, I could provide some clue.

...

And yes; also type of metal can affect speed of phenomena evolving. I am talking mostly about coins made from bronze here.
And i guess your coins were made mostly from nickel...
Best wishes,
J_P

I do beleive you on that. You never detected it...and i did many times. What's the differences?
I presume difference is in time; for how long item was buried in soil.
You live in USA? Right?
So, usuall coins you can detect there in soil are not older than 200-300 years.
I live in Europe, and usuall coins that i can detect on sites i've been visiting are for 1500-2000 years buried in soil, here.
So i guess; differences are in period of time that coins were buried in soil.
I presume that phenomena can not evolve in short period of time.. only logical explanation.

And yes; could be also dependable on type of metal too! Alloy! I am talking mostly about coins made from bronze here. And i guess you are talking mostly about nickels...

Regards!

ivconic

02-05-2010, 02:40 PM

Or...maybe there i NOT any kind of phenomena we are talking about here?
Than how to explain my experiences? (posted previously)

....
Maybe...just maybe in cases when coin was detected at certain depth and later recovered couldn't be detected in air at more than 2/3 of previous depth; maybe in those cases where some "special" and beneficial chemical and electronical conditions in soil arround coin that improved EM field from search coil to propagate better?
If so than what would be those beneficial conditions?

J_Player

02-05-2010, 02:40 PM

I do beleive you on that. You never detected it...and i did many times. What's the differences?
I presume difference is in time; for how long item was buried in soil.
You live in USA? Right?
So, usuall coins you can detect there in soil are not older than 200-300 years.
I live in Europe, and usuall coins that i can detect on sites i've been visiting are for 1500-2000 years buried in soil, here.
So i guess; differences are in period of time that coins were buried in soil.
I presume that phenomena can not evolve in short period of time.. only logical explanation.

And yes; could be also dependable on type of metal too! Alloy! I am talking mostly about coins made from bronze here. And i guess you are talking mostly about nickels...

Regards!
Nickels in the USA are made from stainless steel.
But I am talking about any metal. If the metal is corroding, then it is releasing ions by definition. Corrosion is an ionic chemical process. Even stainless steel corrodes to some small degree. I can show you about 5 pounds of stainless steel knives and forks I dug that are corroded enough to have holes through them. But it all depends on the soil and how long they were corroding. Much faster corrosion happens to copper and zinc based metals, while gold is one of the slowest. But the release of ions from metal surface is not limited to coins. It also happens with buried pipes, lost jewelry and metal buttons and ornaments and other metal trash, as well as natural metal deposits and ores.

Maybe you didn't understand me about what I didn't detect. I have detected buried metals using a metal detector that was held above the buried metal, that seemed to have an unusually strong signal which returned to the normal expected signal after I dug them. This only happened a couple of times.

What I did not see is any pistol type detector or zahori type pistol detect what Esteban describes as the "phenomenon" around a buried metal from more than about a half meter distance measured from the side of where the supposed "phenomenon" is. In fact I don't know exactly what a "phenomenon cloud" is other than what Esteban described as being a cloud area around a buried metal that seems to be electric/magnetic that could be in the air or ground or both... not known for sure. With that definition, I can't determine what it is.

Best wishes,
J_P

ivconic

02-05-2010, 02:41 PM

J Player:

"...Maybe if I knew exactly what electrical property of the "Phenomenon cloud" area you are detecting, I could provide some clue..."

Exactly!
Truth is; WE DO NOT KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN that phenomenon...:frown:

Esteban

02-05-2010, 02:42 PM

I also experienced existence of "phenomena" many times on real soils (sketch below). I can not explain what is going on, but , for example:
i detected coin at certain depth in soil. Than when dug and recovered, it can be detected in air barely to 2/3 of previous depth in soil.

But it is hard to beleive that such small item like single coin, buried at such large depth as 1 meter, can produce so strong phenomena to reach coil surface and become detectable on soil surface! You see my point?

So if this was true; than my conclusion is that your LRL device simply MUST be able to PENETRATE soil to some depths...
Right?

Either that....either i can conclude that all previous claims about single coin detection at large depths were LIES...

I explain millions times. When you put oscillator near item, also you're killed the phenomenon. So, common MD can't show extreme difference only 1/3 more... But pistol is not an aggression to the environment. Also coil of common MD is more near to soil, so this robs the sensitivity. How can you speak of are lies if you do not have experience in this?

ivconic

02-05-2010, 02:43 PM

Nickels in the USA are made from stainless steel.
But I am talking about any metal. If the metal is corroding, then it is releasing ions by definition. Corrosion is an ionic chemical process. Even stainless steel corrodes to some small degree. I can show you about 5 pounds of stainless steel knives and forks I dug that are corroded enough to have holes through them. But it all depends on the soil and how long they were corroding. Much faster corrosion happens to copper and zinc based metals, while gold is one of the slowest. But the release of ions from metal surface is not limited to coins. It also happens with buried pipes, lost jewelry and metal buttons and ornaments and other metal trash, as well as natural metal deposits and ores.

Maybe you didn't understand me about what I didn't detect. I have detected buried metals using a metal detector that was held above the buried metal, that seemed to have an unusually strong signal which returned to the normal expected signal after I dug them. This only happened a couple of times.

What I did not see is any pistol type detector or zahori type pistol detect what Esteban describes as the "phenomenon" around a buried metal from more than about a half meter distance measured from the side of where the supposed "phenomenon" is. In fact I don't know exactly what a "phenomenon cloud" is other than what Esteban described as being a cloud area around a buried metal that seems to be electric/magnetic.

Best wishes,
J_P

Ah that !!!! :lol::lol::lol:

You are not the only one! Me too! :lol::lol::lol:

ivconic

02-05-2010, 02:47 PM

I explain millions times. When you put oscillator near item, also you're killed the phenomenon. So, common MD can't show extreme difference only 1/3 more... But pistol is not an aggression to the environment. Also coil of common MD is more near to soil, so this robs the sensitivity. How can you speak of are lies if you do not have experience in this?

So..i see!
Than you are supporting case B ? Right?
Case where single coin IS "ABLE" to produce phenomena to cover large area, to come out to soil surface and to be detectable with IR pistol? Right?

Other words; you are saying: 2cm diamm coin is able to produce 1 meter diamm phenomena?

Is that what you are claiming here Esteban?

Esteban

02-05-2010, 02:52 PM

So..i see!
Than you are supporting case B ? Right?
Case where single coin IS ABLE to produce phenomena to cover large area, to come out to soil surface and to be detectable with IR pistol? Right?

Other words;2cm diamm coin is able to produce 1 meter diamm phenomena?

Is that what you are claiming here Esteban?

If the coin can be detectable at this depth and also at some distance, not only has vertical shape, also must be have an horizontal shape.

ivconic

02-05-2010, 02:54 PM

If the coin can be detectable at this depth and also at some distance, not only has vertical shape, also must be have an horizontal shape.

Ok,ok...but please answer me with direct answer; yes or no!

I can extend my question with horizontal and vertical propagation, i don't mind.

So please read this again:

Other words; you are saying: 2cm diamm coin is able to produce 1 x 1 (horizontal and vertical) meter area of detectable phenomena?

ivconic

02-05-2010, 03:14 PM

Esteban

02-05-2010, 03:26 PM

Ok,ok...but please answer me with direct answer; yes or no!

I can extend my question with horizontal and vertical propagation, i don't mind.

So please read this again:

Other words; you are saying: 2cm diamm coin is able to produce 1 x 1 (horizontal and vertical) meter area of detectable phenomena?

And more meters too! RF detector (radio) also helps here. So, the "phenomenon" is complex...

Experiments have been made:

1. If you climbs to a stairway, the "phenomenon" continues above.

2. If you close a cable or wire over the object (this is a closed loop), the "phenomenon" disappears. Shortcircuited!

3. If you put a small iron object near the object, the distance decreases.

4. If you put a large iron object on the target area may disappear almost completely, except for a treasure or a large object, good conductor.

5. If the soil is salty, the phenomenon spreads and is difficult to focus the object. Conductivity.

6. If you put a MD (on) over the target for 15 minutes or less, the "phenomenon" dissapears. So oscillations consumes the "phenomenon". The "phenomenon" recovers after X time.

7. If a lightning strikes near the target, the "phenomenon" dissapears and recovering after a certain time, can be 1-3 months.

And many more describing other experiments posted through the years, wish no repeat anymore... tired! If the "phenomenon" does not exist, why so many tests and experiments? (above).

And... are you another inquisitor?

ivconic

02-05-2010, 03:33 PM

"..And... are you another inquisitor?..."

God NOOO! Of curse not! I just want to understand your views and understanding of phenomena!

"...Esteban please be patience with me and answer me with simple YES or NO...."

???

Esteban what is wrong with my question?!?

Are you NOT ABLE to simply answer my question???
Simply "Yes" or "No" ???

Do i need to preformulate question for hundred times more?
Do i need to repeat question also for hundred times more?

Are you able to simply answer with "Yes" or "No" ??

ivconic

02-05-2010, 03:39 PM

Look; i am not asking you for any kind of explanations. Also i am not asking you for any kind of experiments here!

All i am asking is SIMPLE ANSWER; YES or NO.

Is my English so bad?

Esteban

02-05-2010, 03:40 PM

ivconic

02-05-2010, 03:42 PM

Look; i am not asking you for any kind of explanations. Also i am not asking you for any kind of experiments here!

All i am asking is SIMPLE ANSWER; YES or NO.

Is my English so bad?

All i am asking is SIMPLE ANSWER; YES or NO.

Is my English so bad?

ivconic

02-05-2010, 03:42 PM

All i am asking is SIMPLE ANSWER; YES or NO.

Is my English so bad?

All i am asking is SIMPLE ANSWER; YES or NO.

Is my English so bad?

All i am asking is SIMPLE ANSWER; YES or NO.

Is my English so bad?

Esteban

02-05-2010, 03:43 PM

And more meters too! RF detector (radio) also helps here. So, the "phenomenon" is complex...

I respond you!

Esteban

02-05-2010, 03:43 PM

All i am asking is SIMPLE ANSWER; YES or NO.

Is my English so bad?

Do you're an inquisitor? :nono:

Esteban

02-05-2010, 03:44 PM

Look; i am not asking you for any kind of explanations. Also i am not asking you for any kind of experiments here!

All i am asking is SIMPLE ANSWER; YES or NO.

Is my English so bad?

Maybe the descriptions can help... :angry:

ivconic

02-05-2010, 03:44 PM

I respond you!

You are telling the things i am not interested to hear at all!
Don't bug me please!

Answer on my question simply;

YES or NO !

Esteban

02-05-2010, 03:49 PM

Might be that my question is not easy to understand ?

So i draw another sketch to make it more understandable.

Esteban please be patience with me and answer me with simple YES or NO.

So;

ARE YOU SAYING THAT 2cm SINGLE COIN, AT 1m DEPTH IN SOIL, IS ABLE TO PRODUCE PHENOMENA DETECTABLE AT SOIL SURFACE WITH IR LRL?

Simple Yes or No?

Many thanks for your answer, in advance.

In some part I put "limit for IR can be 75 cm depth for a single coin". Search for it. This is regarding for IR. Other kind of pistol, as Zahori, detect a big gold chain at 1 meter depth and 30 m in distance in inland free not contaminated area. As you can see, I respond days ago before you asked me. You don't read the posts.

ivconic

02-05-2010, 03:49 PM

Esteban you are affraid to give here simple answer on simple question.

Why? I will tell you why? Because you are catched in your own trap!

If you answer with NO than you will spit on all your own claims you already posted on these forums!

If you answer YES than everybody else here (sane memebers) will spit on you and also will realize finally that you
are worst lunatic and charlatan ever existed on this forum (this is NOT my claim, this is only assumption in case your answer is YES)!

Tough choice! Tough question! I understand very well why are you hesitating to give simple answer...

I feel sorry for you. But you started all...not me.

ivconic

02-05-2010, 03:52 PM

"..."limit for IR can be 75 cm depth for a single coin"..."

Ok! I don't mind for those extra 25cm at all.

So i will preformulate my question again:

ARE YOU SAYING THAT 2cm SINGLE COIN, AT 75cm DEPTH IN SOIL, IS ABLE TO PRODUCE PHENOMENA DETECTABLE AT SOIL SURFACE WITH IR LRL?

PLEASEEEE answer me with simple YES or NO !

Esteban

02-05-2010, 03:57 PM

The distortion is a change in electrical/magnetic/chemist/temp characteristics in soil where is buried good conductive metal. So, the "phenomenon" is some complex. With IR I found (in my patio) not very old item (a coin) buried for only few years, but not at depth. In few years isn't creates the enough electric field or "phenomenon", called by others "halo". But a item buried for 100 years can be detected at more depth. But this isn't mean that a item buried for 1,000 years can be detectable X 10 in depth. I think the limit for a single coin is 75 cm for IR. But IR laser can be good. Maybe.

Do you see?

ivconic

02-05-2010, 03:59 PM

Do you see?

I see and you are right on that.

So i preformulated my question already in :

ARE YOU SAYING THAT 2cm SINGLE COIN, AT 75cm DEPTH IN SOIL, IS ABLE TO PRODUCE PHENOMENA DETECTABLE AT SOIL SURFACE WITH IR LRL?

PLEASE answer me with simple YES or NO !

Esteban

02-05-2010, 04:43 PM

YES!

ivconic

02-05-2010, 04:48 PM

YES!

So your answer is YES on my question:

"..ARE YOU SAYING THAT 2cm SINGLE COIN, AT 75cm DEPTH IN SOIL, IS ABLE TO PRODUCE PHENOMENA DETECTABLE AT SOIL SURFACE WITH IR LRL?.."

So, actually YOU are saying that 2cm SINGLE COIN AT 75CM DEPTH IN SOIL is ABLE TO PRODUCE PHENOMENA DETECTABLE AT SOIL SURFACE WITH IR LRL !?

Right?

Your answer is YES, as we can see from your previous post.

THANK YOU ESTEBAN! THANK YOU for your answer! :)

Hell....what took you so long to give simple answer on such simple question???

Sheeeeshhh!

Carl-NC

02-05-2010, 04:48 PM

ARE YOU SAYING THAT 2cm SINGLE COIN, AT 1m DEPTH IN SOIL, IS ABLE TO PRODUCE PHENOMENA DETECTABLE AT SOIL SURFACE WITH IR LRL?

Simple Yes or No?

And more meters too! RF detector (radio) also helps here. So, the "phenomenon" is complex...

Not a simple yes, but a yes. Let's cool down a bit...

Carl-NC

02-05-2010, 04:50 PM

I noticed that when a metallic object good conductor of heat and electricity are exposed to strong heat of the sun on a good day, this is detectable outside. Seems that emits "something" that is easily detectable.

But not ionization due to infrared, because that simply cannot happen.

Also, according to HungScience, incident sunlight contains no infrared.

- Carl

ivconic

02-05-2010, 04:50 PM

Not a simple yes, but a yes. Let's cool down a bit...

I am cool! And i am very satisfied with Esteban's answer! :)

ivconic

02-05-2010, 04:54 PM

As we saw from Estaban's answer:

2cm SINGLE COIN AT 75CM DEPTH IN SOIL is ABLE TO PRODUCE PHENOMENA DETECTABLE AT SOIL SURFACE WITH IR LRL !!!!!

Wow!!!!! Excellent info!!! :lol::razz:

Carl how about that?

Qiaozhi

02-05-2010, 04:57 PM

My initial reaction to this discussion was that the "halo effect" and the "phenomenon" must be two different things. But I see Esteban's point about a conventional metal detector destroying the phenomenon. In this case (and assuming the phenomenon is real) they may be related. I guess the trick is to detect the effect without upsetting it.

bklein

02-05-2010, 05:06 PM

Yes, of course.
We cannot expect IR will ionize the target material. It would take a higher energy such as exposing the target to a radioactive source, or other ionizing radiation. This is what raises some curiosity about his "ionized oxygen" container, which he calls the "intermediate" ionized plasma that communicates with the target material. I was wondering if it ever worked in practice. Actually I haven't ever seen any evidence of this method being used in the years since this patent was issued.

I still wonder ... "does it work?"

I suppose if it did work, there are governments all over the world that would want to use it to identify contraband and to locate explosives, as well as finding where there are dangerous bio-hazard fumes in the air. This is a multi-billion dollar industry. A little checking will show that the inventor John Nutting is the owner of a small business with less than 4 employees, and does not appear to have become rich from producing his locator for the industries that desperately need what he claims it does. :|

Oh well. Maybe he should have tried the method of an LED pulsed at 400 Hz with an FM radio held close to hear and identify materials from a distance. This would have made him successful, right?

Best wishes,
J_P

The more I look at this the less far fetched it becomes fundamentally...
Not that this works in a small hand-held product right now though!

I did a little Google search and came up with this:
http://www.teramobile.org/publications/APBMechain2.pdf
It suggests a "near IR" laser pulse can create ionized plasma. But who the heck wants to carry around a terawatt IR laser to find a quarter? And do a search on IR lasers for sale. Not cheap. Extremely dangerous. Burns what it lands on. Wipes out your eyes and you won't see it happening... This patent is weird in that the detection signatures are weakly discussed. Has someone just gone ahead and called this guy's company Lidco in Edmond, WA to see what he is up to. He has another patent in 2003 so he's been at this for awhile...
Another link found in the search is this:
http://bernath.uwaterloo.ca/media/IRLaserRev.pdf
Interesting summary of IR spectrometry etc. and relates to this topic somewhat...
And then I added "gold" to the search terms and came up with this:
http://www.rsc.org/delivery/_ArticleLinking/DisplayArticleForFree.cfm?doi=a606031e&JournalCode=JA

So yeah, could work, but what's wrong with using a HH1 PI detector that
has ten bucks worth of parts to find that quarter?

Barry

ivconic

02-05-2010, 05:16 PM

hung

02-05-2010, 05:23 PM

Also, according to HungScience, incident sunlight contains no infrared.

- Carl

Wrong again Carl.
CarlScience is that keeps thinking and infering I have stated that.
Still did not understand what I told you in that thread eh?

Dude, science is not mine or yours. Science is one and only. You either understands it or not.

Maybe you should go back to our Physics forum for more questions like you did sometime ago with that silly one about resonance in Seden's case?
Maybe you could try to figure who I am there. Probably one of those who will care to answer you?

ivconic

02-05-2010, 05:27 PM

Wrong again Carl.
CarlScience is that keeps thinking and infering I have stated that.
Still did not understand what I told you in that thread eh?

Maybe you should go back to our Physics forum for more questions like you did sometime ago with that silly question about resonance in Seden's case?
Maybe you could try to figure who I am there. Probably one of those who will care to answer you?

Very nice!

Read this first:

"...2cm SINGLE COIN AT 75CM DEPTH IN SOIL is ABLE TO PRODUCE PHENOMENA DETECTABLE AT SOIL SURFACE WITH IR LRL !!!!!..."

Than please can you explain here that phenomena!?

Many thanks in advance!

:):):)

ivconic

02-05-2010, 05:29 PM

Must go now!
...
Please do talk here...don't mind my absence! :lol:

I will be glad to read your posts, tonight on my return here..

Regards!

bklein

02-05-2010, 05:46 PM

"...what's wrong with using a HH1 PI detector that
has ten bucks worth of parts to find that quarter?..."

With all respect to Carl's geniallity and knowledge....but depth like 75cm on single coin is a way to much even for such nice and sensitive design like HH...
And not only HH.....75cm depth detection on a single coin is IMPOSSIBLE for any other kind of detector we know. Simply IMPOSSIBLE !!!

End of a story!

Ok, but that is only true if the area has not been disturbed by another more traditional detector, local EMI, digging of the area... And it won't work underwater or in wet conditions (like recent rain...). If this detector is truly detecting these ionized fields it would be cool to have someone mark out a rectangular untouched field and scan it with this detector under differing weather conditions etc., then go over it with various detector technologies, and then finally dig and see what you get.

Barry

Carl-NC

02-05-2010, 05:55 PM

Wrong again Carl.

Direct quote from Hung:

"So, there's no such thing as IR penetrating the soil or IR striking the surface of the earth."

The context of the conversation was the effect of sunlight on IR heating the soil and buried objects. There is no room for misinterpretation.

hung

02-05-2010, 06:55 PM

Direct quote from Hung:

"So, there's no such thing as IR penetrating the soil or IR striking the surface of the earth."

The context of the conversation was the effect of sunlight on IR heating the soil and buried objects. There is no room for misinterpretation.

You are notorious for bringing things out of context to appear they are indeed in the context.
Of course there's IR striking the earth. But the absolute gross amount of IR is available through the cooling process released by the surface of the earth, 24 hours a day. And this is the portion responsible to the object of your post in that thread, not the first one.

Carl-NC

02-05-2010, 07:43 PM

hung

02-05-2010, 07:55 PM

Hung, the easiest thing to say is, "Oops, I was mistaken... yes, the major contributor to soil heating from incident sunlight is infrared, not ultraviolet."

I would have much more respect for you if you admitted obvious mistakes, instead of being obstinate and blaming your mistakes on me. But you're never wrong, are you?

"A potentiometer is a variable resistor. It varies the resistance, opposing incoming voltage."

There's no problem in recognizing mistakes from my part. But this is not the case.
I already gave you correct answers to both topics you mention.
You chose to ignore my answers to fit what you think you know. It's your privilege. I will not stick it inside your head.
The potentiometer post is a good example.

Regarding this post, your first sentence is the evidence of a mistake, when again you try to twist IR in the context.
I will not answer more questions from you anymore until you do a thorough study on sensible heat and how it processes.
Not knowing how IR behaves in the earth surface is a serious flaw from your part.

Sometime ago I thought you deliberately twisted some scientific facts to fit your agenda. Now I see you do ignore some things. Sorry to make this unjustice to you.
Regards.

Qiaozhi

02-05-2010, 09:59 PM

Sometime ago I thought you deliberately twisted some scientific facts to fit your agenda.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I guess some people here are not going to understand this idiom, so here's an explanation -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_calling_the_kettle_black :cool:

Morgan

02-05-2010, 10:03 PM

8. If the wet is very high (in the air, no problem in stream, river or quiet water), "phenomenon" suffers dispersion and can't be detectable or expand like in salty terrain, except that with high moisture in air is not sure the detection (can exists many falses). But you're sure in salty terrain because is not false detection, only "phenomenon" is expanded.

9. Extremely fine rain helps in detection. Seems the "phenomenon" uses as a "road". This I comprobe with a BFO pistol, very insensitive to riffle cartridge. But in this opportunity seems the extremely fine rain acts as a "way" and beeps many times in the place of the riffle cartridge 7.62.

10. Round objects as coins and rings can be detectable at more distance. Seems that the charges do not "escape" from the round shapes.

I'll added more all I remembered.
Hi Esteban

I agree with you,i study the Phenomenon but for me its something electromagnetic,not ionic or other thing.
In my field test ,very often i do tests with PD ,and its obvious i get more distance with wet soil after the rain. So,the Pistoldetektor acts like a metal detector,with the advantage of more distance and sensitivity to noble metals.PD also foud iron when ring shape,old iron buckles,this also hapens with all metal detectors.
My question,when you talk about your PD BFO,more sensitive to Phenomenon,you mean the passive receiver inside the pistol,not the BFO,this you use only to pinpoint the object ,isnt it ???

Regards

hung

02-05-2010, 10:48 PM

I agree with you,i study the Phenomenon but for me its something electromagnetic,not ionic or other thing.

Regards

Morgan, Esteban has not stated that. And yes, ions are present in the phenomena.
Regards.

Fred

02-05-2010, 10:59 PM

Qiaozhi

02-05-2010, 11:18 PM

Esteban

02-05-2010, 11:20 PM

So your answer is YES on my question:

"..ARE YOU SAYING THAT 2cm SINGLE COIN, AT 75cm DEPTH IN SOIL, IS ABLE TO PRODUCE PHENOMENA DETECTABLE AT SOIL SURFACE WITH IR LRL?.."

So, actually YOU are saying that 2cm SINGLE COIN AT 75CM DEPTH IN SOIL is ABLE TO PRODUCE PHENOMENA DETECTABLE AT SOIL SURFACE WITH IR LRL !?

Right?

Your answer is YES, as we can see from your previous post.

THANK YOU ESTEBAN! THANK YOU for your answer! :)

Hell....what took you so long to give simple answer on such simple question???

Sheeeeshhh!

Why you're very inquisitive? You're Stavka soviet agent or what... eh? :lol:

I respond BEFORE you asked me. Sense parole.

Esteban

02-05-2010, 11:31 PM

But not ionization due to infrared, because that simply cannot happen.

Also, according to HungScience, incident sunlight contains no infrared.

- Carl

I think this is another kind of "phenomenon", not the produced around item buried for many years. This happens another 2 times I remembered, so 3 times registered. With 3 different "principle" pistol: 1. fet input ionization Mineoro style (2 detectors in one: antenna and magnetic loop: absorption), 2. induction/balance + radio (like Morgan's posted) and 3. pure magnetic absorption type.

detectoman

02-05-2010, 11:34 PM

here i show other of my new design, this i called hibrid pistol 10, i find one rare form of field detection support, the fenomen ocurr when compass is in front and is in equal whit the two anten extension, then these came very sensitive and turn crazy how giroscope and change the orientation these is for distinct anten telescopic position, too exist interference whit function ferrite polarization, very strange:rolleyes::rolleyes: :lol:
i have for these oscilator 433 mhz and too variable unijunction circuit, this is my new investigation in progress for 2010
these case is easy of make, only two container of vhs cassete, in middle wood for fix these, inside two baterias rechargeable square de toy of 9 volts via regulator 9 v. output this versatile

Esteban

02-05-2010, 11:42 PM

"...what's wrong with using a HH1 PI detector that
has ten bucks worth of parts to find that quarter?..."

With all respect to Carl's geniallity and knowledge....but depth like 75cm on single coin is a way to much even for such nice and sensitive design like HH...
And not only HH.....75cm depth detection on a single coin is IMPOSSIBLE for any other kind of detector we know. Simply IMPOSSIBLE !!!

End of a story!

Remember only this. Alonso told me: "I don't understand why they put the man at Moon at 384,000 km of the Earth with all the implicances, but can't detect a single coin at 1 m depth". But maybe NASA knows how, but many others no. End of the history. Werner von Braun said: "We can lick gravity, but the paperwork's a bit tougher." :lol:

Esteban

02-05-2010, 11:50 PM

Hi Esteban

I agree with you,i study the Phenomenon but for me its something electromagnetic,not ionic or other thing.
In my field test ,very often i do tests with PD ,and its obvious i get more distance with wet soil after the rain. So,the Pistoldetektor acts like a metal detector,with the advantage of more distance and sensitivity to noble metals.PD also foud iron when ring shape,old iron buckles,this also hapens with all metal detectors.
My question,when you talk about your PD BFO,more sensitive to Phenomenon,you mean the passive receiver inside the pistol,not the BFO,this you use only to pinpoint the object ,isnt it ???

Regards

Can be used for pinpointing and for distance detector. This BFO must be extremely stable, difficult to find a good schematic. But this work with radio receiver. You have 2 knobs. One for BFO zero and the other for sensibility of radio (volume).

hung

02-05-2010, 11:55 PM

But maybe NASA knows how, but many others no. :lol:

They do Esteban, they do. Actually much more than that.

But assure yourself that in all parts of the world there are hidden 'little NASAs' that also hate publicity as well.:lol:
It's not USA exclusive anymore. Welcome to globalization...

Esteban

02-05-2010, 11:55 PM

detectoman

02-05-2010, 11:56 PM

i have understand what an gold ring and everyvary aros, round or square, are easy for detection due, to: these is detected for old radiation electrician eventual phenomen, and too detect double further due because the ring is one little closed coil of big conductivity by be noble metal, and hig inductance for grosor, too the area of contamination whit fine sulphates ( aleationes ) disemined them are mineral, too the change of field of earth distorsion for buried object, and soil removed, other consistence in conjunt is an foint of distinct disturbances

Esteban

02-06-2010, 12:00 AM

They do Esteban, they do. Actually much more than that.

But assure yourself that in all parts of the world there are hidden 'little NASAs' that also hate publicity as well.:lol:
It's not USA exclusive anymore. Welcome to globalization...

Yes. Since NASA and his men patent surveying aerial for track minerals...

detectoman

02-06-2010, 12:02 AM

yes esteban i see the double anten put most directional and further the lines of lrl detection, they carry for most center, and shield the noises

ivconic

02-06-2010, 01:34 AM

Funny, DR Hung appearing each time discussion gets interesting or constructive.
Then he ruins everything with the help o a few ridiculous declarations.
Is that to get the credits of the constructive discussion or just to kill it ? :rolleyes:

:lol:
Indeed it looks like that!
:lol:

Hung's friendly efforts on Esteban's salvage from unpleasant situations are worth of real respect. And i do respect that.
BTW...i also respect Esteban. Despite his lunatic claims, that dude is real pal, pretty agile enthusiast and nice tempered character. Being member on these forums for long time i realized that Esteban is generaly pretty descent and good man. That's why i usually do talk with him half seriously on LRL subjects.
If we could ever meet, most probably we would be good friends, despite huge differences in our experiences.
Yet...i wouldn't be "me" if i would so easy forget and forgive this claim:

" ...2cm SINGLE COIN AT 75CM DEPTH IN SOIL is ABLE TO PRODUCE PHENOMENA DETECTABLE AT SOIL SURFACE WITH IR LRL !!!!!..."

Boooooooooooooooooooooooahahahahahahahahahahahah!
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol:

J_Player

02-06-2010, 10:13 AM

Funny, DR Hung appearing each time discussion gets interesting or constructive.
Then he ruins everything with the help o a few ridiculous declarations.
Is that to get the credits of the constructive discussion or just to kill it ? :rolleyes:Do yo think his purpose is to disrupt people who are trying to learn through using facts? ...
Or could his purpose be to promote "HungScience"?

Consider the source of information where hung claims he was quoted out of context.
Let's see hung's whole post in it's original context:
Carl-NC wrote:
IR radiation strikes the surface of the soil, is converted to heat, which thermally conducts (poorly) through the soil.

This is wrong.
What strikes the earth are short waves. UVA,UVB and C.
But before they hit the earth's suface, a good portion is reflected back in the atmosphere.

Long waves in form of IR are released back FROM EARTH's surface 24 hours a day during the cooling process. So, there's no such thing as IR penetrating the soil or IR striking the surface of the earth.
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,292891.msg2132437.html#msg2132437

And from hung's next post: ...This is a scientific fact.
Any meteorology book will teach you this".

Ummmm.... "...there's no such thing as IR penetrating the soil or IR striking the surface of the earth"?
Are we all supposed to act stupid now as if we believe this crap?
Doesn't everyone know that most of the solar energy that strikes the earth is IR and visible light, and less than 8% UV?

Does Dr. hung become upset when he sees people trying to figure things out by using facts?
Apparently neither science nor pseudoscience concepts served well to prove hung is a genius who leads a team of scientists to discover advanced secret methods to find fabulous treasures and coins from a mile away (or even to prove that he actually built something that works). Maybe something new was needed to promote himself to a position of high acclaim and esteem among the others who make forum posts:

HungScience!

In his collection of proclamations of HungScience principles, the esteemed
Dr. hung has accummulated a body of "HungScience facts" in his forum posts:

"Gold is the most powerful 'self defensive' metal when it comes to avoid any harm to its structure, such as rust, oxidation, etc. Its DNA produces a substance which coats the metal to fight against those 'threats'."
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=84058

This is the principle in which the Rangertell Examiner works. Resonance to the elements subatomic levels when a carrier signal line is shot and returned".
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=41226

"Back to the Examiner’s concept, there’s a portion in ECE which I already mentioned which might explain how the magnetic fields produced by the unit even diminute might be working provided one gets free of the standard Maxwell Heaviside concept and maybe start to find some backup on the Aharonov-Bohm and the field and potential relationship..."
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=63626 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=63626&postcount=10)

"If you navigate the internet correctly, you will find out how ALL scientific comunity in the world utilizes AIAS as basis for their research".
http://geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=63185#post63185

"So, there's no such thing as IR penetrating the soil or IR striking the surface of the earth".
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,292891.msg2132437.html#msg2132437

These are just a few examples of "HungScience facts" posted by Dr. hung. I can cite pages of more "HungScience" diatribe that shows up in hung posts declaring principles that nobody has ever heard of except hung and members his "secret team". We see that HungScience is based on axioms that neither scientist or pseudoscientists try to promote.

So what is Dr. hung's point of trying to convince people here and at TNet that the earth is heated by the sun's UV, not IR from the sun? Why does he want us to think there is no such thing as IR striking the surface of the earth, and IR is only sent away when the earth is cooling? Could it be to prove he is smarter than Carl-NC, so we must ignore basic facts Carl points out, and believe only the science of Dr. hung?

One thing for sure... it's not science, and it's not even pseudoscience.
It's HungScience!

Hmmm.... maybe you are right...
It is pretty disruptive to interject HungScience into the middle of a serious discussion of actual facts and scientific principles. :oh:

Best wishes,
J_P

hung

02-06-2010, 10:15 AM

Esteban

02-06-2010, 11:35 AM

:lol:
Indeed it looks like that!
:lol:

Hung's friendly efforts on Esteban's salvage from unpleasant situations are worth of real respect. And i do respect that.
BTW...i also respect Esteban. Despite his lunatic claims, that dude is real pal, pretty agile enthusiast and nice tempered character. Being member on these forums for long time i realized that Esteban is generaly pretty descent and good man. That's why i usually do talk with him half seriously on LRL subjects.
If we could ever meet, most probably we would be good friends, despite huge differences in our experiences.
Yet...i wouldn't be "me" if i would so easy forget and forgive this claim:

" ...2cm SINGLE COIN AT 75CM DEPTH IN SOIL is ABLE TO PRODUCE PHENOMENA DETECTABLE AT SOIL SURFACE WITH IR LRL !!!!!..."

Boooooooooooooooooooooooahahahahahahahahahahahah!
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol:

I am who laugh at you, but I understand you. Your expectative is very poor. But in other side, you make me very sad...

hung

02-06-2010, 01:42 PM

there's no such thing as IR penetrating the soil or IR striking the surface of the earth"?
Out of context, many things become wrong...
I was refering to the main IR along with other factors to produce visible phenomena through photographs.
The IR released by earth in the cooling process as radiation. Not the striking IR as Carl pointed out.
When twisted, many statements become other things...

Fred

02-06-2010, 01:47 PM

Dude, science is not mine or yours. Science is one and only. You either understands it or not.

Let's see hung's whole post in it's original context:
(.... ) (they are all very funny)

:lol::lol::lol:
Then:
[quote=hung;106849]Dude, science is not mine or yours. Science is one and only. You either understands it or not.

:lol::lol::lol:

Be sure that your amazement in your quote is proportional to your complete unwareness about the subsoil phenomena. This is evidently true according your posts.(...)
I will not go deeper in this subject because most of this is classified matter and I CHOOSE not to give all details. So I ask you to respect that.

:lol::lol::lol:

Man this is too funny.
Max has the clown pictures, but Hung in the Elected.

DonÂ´t let him disrupt this conversation any more

hung

02-06-2010, 03:19 PM

No Frederico,
As I see the only clowns here are Carl, who thinks IR is not released back from surface and that voltage is only a potential just like wiki says, keeping twisting what I say, your buddy above who is a self confessed liar and youself, who to date still do not have a clue of which transistor in your PD board is inverted.

But why bother, this forum is a circus anyway...peroba:lol:

PS. Oh sure, I was forgetting about Ozzy, the SKEPTHIC mor who was elected (by who?!!) auxiliary moderator.
What a forum!:shocked::shocked: And still some enlighteneds think that Tnet is the funny one...

ivconic

02-06-2010, 04:09 PM

I am who laugh at you, but I understand you. Your expectative is very poor. But in other side, you make me very sad...

Sad?! Why?
I thought you are the bright one!?
Keep cool, we are mostly joking here (talking mostly about me).

Man can't be expert in all things. I really do not understand IR principles good enough. But i have common sence and using it i can make some conclusions and form some opinion.
Your approach (as someone who supposed to be more expert in IR) is wrong. You usually just post few unprovable claims and than stop.
If you want to be understood better than post more logical and technical explanations here. Give us examples. Give us something "material" and provable.
It is easy me to beleive to William Lahr because i made TGS according to his traced schematic and i saw TGS is working and it is real thing. It was not empty story from Lahr or Tesoro or anybody else.
Also is easy me to beleive to Carl Moreland because he gave us HH project and we made it (i made it twice and second time was much success) and now we know HH is real and workable - not just empty story and bunch of unsupported claims.
Also Zahori...who posted it here first? It was you? I made Zahori and i saw that actually it is workable, ok not useable as LRL , but workable as electronic device...so i do beleive in Zahori project and i would for sure beleive in you if you were ever posted any functional LRL schematic.
But you didn't.
You posted many claims, many stories, many "thumbnail" schematics......but none of the workable and provable LRL project so far! How come?

I am man of action, i don't like to think to much, i like to work and finally to get some use of my work.
With all your stories you better join some phylosophical forum and post there your phylosophy... but not here, no please, no thank You!
You are welcome here, of course, but if you have not nothing real, workable and provable to offer here...than please shut up and do not post empty tales no more.
Come to Off topic part of forum and we can debate and discuss other subjects as many as you like.
Best Regards FRIEND !
:lol::)

Qiaozhi

02-06-2010, 04:27 PM

Dude, science is not mine or yours. Science is one and only. You either understands (sic) it or not.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
And clearly you do not.

ivconic

02-06-2010, 04:34 PM

Ivconic,

Be sure that your amazement in your quote is proportional to your complete unwareness about the subsoil phenomena. This is evidently true according your posts.

Esteban is right and whoever has deeply studied the so called 'phenomena' knows (not believes) about it.
A gold object, the deeper it's buried and the longer it's remained under the ground, will produce a 'detectable field' many, many times its size. The 2 cm gold coin in your example, if the right conditions above are met, can exhibit a field up to 100 times or more its own size.

I will not go deeper in this subject because most of this is classified matter and I CHOOSE not to give all details. So I ask you to respect that.

Gold, copper,silver, the noble metals present different formations than ferrous ones and their atoms are 'linked' by an electron cloud type pattern. When they are buried for a long time they end up presenting different electric and magnetic properties from the surrounding terrain. Ferrous metals with the passing years do not produce relevant fields. But noble metals do produce an intense electromagnetic field, being gold the greatest of all.
To understand how this happens, you have to understand some concepts as 'deformed wave' and 'induced wave'.
The first one behaves as an electron when trespassing an electric or magnetic field. Its trajectory is 'changed' in the direction of those fields. Being proportional to their intensity, so that its trajectory becomes 'curved'.
The induced field is even more important. In physics, induction is to estabilish an electric current, producing a near current. Electric induction is the electric redistribution in a conductor when positioned in an electric field. EM induction is the electric current production by variation of the induced flux, generating an EMF induced in a circuit, according to the variation of current intensity in other circuit.
The fields produced by buried gold have the widest span in terms os 'aperture' which reaches abour 120 to 150 degrees.

I ask you: Do diamagnetic and paramagnetic materials create electric and magnetic fields?

Ivconic, I am making an exception to you who I think altough 'skepthic' as the notorious ones here, you are not quite like the others. You have a considerable techical background and you are independent thinking. Different from some Carl's followers here who keep following the old, and I should say deteriorated scientific agenda trying with this have the least 'support' to evidence why long range locating of metals 'cannot be possible'. This is pathetic.
If you just go to TNet you will see that each day, Carl has less and less credibility there with the LRL users. And this is really good. Good because people are awakening from the pretense that 'science' does not back up LRLs. This fallacy will tend to die in the shortest time possible until it will be vanished.
I don't like to discuss scientific facts in forums, specially this one because I know there's a lot of 'outsiders' who we might know what their intentions are and also because many skeptics follow the wikipedia type science.
Please, I'm not saying that I know more than anyone else here. Please, no.
I'm just saying that it's very hard to discuss or argue with somebody who can't have the ability to think beyond the concepts they learn in high school.
Science is passing everyday to new revisions, interpretations and new data. People should be exactly like that if they want to evolve.
Regards.

Hung i am hardly trying to keep the open mind for various ideas. But from time to time it is so difficult. Time passed and no response from "other side" (you - the beleivers).
Proper response would be some material proof, some workable project, something to rely on. I would like to join your "club" and be active LRL proponent, why not? But first you have to make me beleive in that.
In my last 20 years i've been checking, testing and exploring many ideas based on LRL principles...made by me but also made by many other people.
So far NEITHER one proof to support it. Neither a moment where i was in doubts; is there something real in all this or not. Neither a moment! Nothing happened in those 20 years to make me to wander about it's reallity.
100% proofs that it is pseudo science, bogus and charlatanic.
Sorry if this sounds rude...but it is true.
Like Esteban; you also didn't gave here (or anywhere else that i know) any material clue, project, schematic...or whatever, to give people a hint, a clue...a slitest hope that there is something real in all those LRL mess.
...
So ...put yourself in my position and you will better understand my attitude.
I am not juddging your or Esteban's attitude at all. I am juddging your and Esteban's persistent insisting on tales and stories without slitest wish to support those with something more material.
But i will talk with both of you in future too. Our differences are not enough good reason to stop talking.

...
Your attitude upon Carl is unjust, partial and unfair. I never heard from Carl (in public, neither other way) nothing bad for you or anybody else.
As a matter of fact i never heard from him anything about you out of his public posts. He has not "followers", so as i see. He is most invisible and most absent admin i ever seen. His influence on me or any other member here is next to none.
Your personal argue with Carl is just what it is. I am not interested to mix in it. It is your thing and better to stay like that. I never juddged upon you or anybody else here relying on Carl's behavior and words (although i can not see nothing bad and unusall in those too - all i see is common argue, typical for all forums).

Regards!

bklein

02-06-2010, 04:49 PM

Arrgggh. Can we get back to the technology and less the personalities?
Its kinda funny. The guys that believe there is something here are showing their detectors but not their circuits or why they work. If we readers could be enlightened we may be able to improve the designs like that being done with more traditional techniques here. I don't really have much from what I read as to what the IR detector is detecting. Or to complicate things some of the detectors presented don't have IR detectors but have antennas. So is there a common design thread and belief to what is being detected? What can I build to take out to a park, beach, ghost town, and find something? Is there a circuit on this site that the promoters approve?

Esteban

02-06-2010, 04:59 PM

Sad?! Why?
I thought you are the bright one!?
Keep cool, we are mostly joking here (talking mostly about me).

Man can't be expert in all things. I really do not understand IR principles good enough. But i have common sence and using it i can make some conclusions and form some opinion.
Your approach (as someone who supposed to be more expert in IR) is wrong. You usually just post few unprovable claims and than stop.
If you want to be understood better than post more logical and technical explanations here. Give us examples. Give us something "material" and provable.
It is easy me to beleive to William Lahr because i made TGS according to his traced schematic and i saw TGS is working and it is real thing. It was not empty story from Lahr or Tesoro or anybody else.
Also is easy me to beleive to Carl Moreland because he gave us HH project and we made it (i made it twice and second time was much success) and now we know HH is real and workable - not just empty story and bunch of unsupported claims.
Also Zahori...who posted it here first? It was you? I made Zahori and i saw that actually it is workable, ok not useable as LRL , but workable as electronic device...so i do beleive in Zahori project and i would for sure beleive in you if you were ever posted any functional LRL schematic.
But you didn't.
You posted many claims, many stories, many "thumbnail" schematics......but none of the workable and provable LRL project so far! How come?

I am man of action, i don't like to think to much, i like to work and finally to get some use of my work.
With all your stories you better join some phylosophical forum and post there your phylosophy... but not here, no please, no thank You!
You are welcome here, of course, but if you have not nothing real, workable and provable to offer here...than please shut up and do not post empty tales no more.
Come to Off topic part of forum and we can debate and discuss other subjects as many as you like.
Best Regards FRIEND !
:lol::)

Sad for you and your attitude. For all this you ask and ask me?
I notice that you're an only can discuss high topics! Persons like you degradate this forum. Also: if you don't have nothing workable and provable to offer here, what are you doing here! Of course, don't wish to post here because you're the first that comercialize such devices. This is real too!

Goodbye!

Esteban

02-06-2010, 05:06 PM

Esteban said to Stevan (you, the admin of your forum): Goodbye!

Fred

02-06-2010, 05:16 PM

No Frederico,
So you call me Fred-erico :shocked: ?
who to date still do not have a clue of which transistor in your PD board is inverted.
Pleaaase tel me wich transistor ...I neeed to know...Oh wait, maybe it is the on you burnt in your PD ? :lol:

Carl-NC

02-06-2010, 05:22 PM

Carl, who thinks IR is not released back from surface...

I know that it is, and said so in the original thread: "Yes, I agree that re-radiation from the ground is IR." But the conversation was, what heats the soil in the first place?

You said:

The UV ... is absorbed by the surface of the earth. This parcel which is absorbed is THE ONLY souce of heat for our planet and it occurs during the sunlight period.

So, IT'S NOT the IR from the sun which is responsible for the heating process , but the UV short radiation absorbed which causes IR to be released by the earth's surface.

Again, this is flatly wrong, and there's no way around the fact it is wrong.

and that voltage is only a potential just like wiki says, Just like all of science says.

When you have voltage ... as a flowing constant also, resistance does oppose to it.

Show me.

Also, you did a copy/paste that had 2 errors:

When we speak of a certain amount of voltage being present in a circuit, we are referring to the measurement of how much potential energy exists to move electrons from one particular point in that circuit to another particular point.

Did you spot the error in this sentence? Here's a hint... I have a 1uF cap and a 100uF cap both charged to exactly 1 volt... which one has more potential energy? Which one has a higher electric potential?

Just like voltage, resistance is a quantity relative between two points.

No, resistance is an absolute quantity between two points. Unlike voltage, it is not relative.

This is the risk of relying on copy/paste instead of actually understanding the concept.

who to date still do not have a clue of which transistor in your PD board is inverted.What's a PD board?

Fred

02-06-2010, 05:28 PM

What's a PD board?
Pistol Detector

Fred

02-06-2010, 05:45 PM

Esteban said to Stevan (you, the admin of your forum): Goodbye!
Back to serious things:
I believe the halo and your observed effect is the same or closely related, and induce local changes in soil conductivity, by direct contamination, molecular arrangement (similar to iron powder that will follow magnetic "lines"), or ion propagation if you like.
This anomaly is probably more vertically oriented, as JP pointed.
There is a voltage gradient above the surface , but also below.By changing the conductivity, it will locally shortcut it.
It could even be visualised as a (conductive) rod vertically stuck in the earth.

hung

02-06-2010, 05:57 PM

Hung i am hardly trying to keep the open mind for various ideas. But from time to time it is so difficult. Time passed and no response from "other side" (you - the beleivers).
Proper response would be some material proof, some workable project, something to rely on. I would like to join your "club" and be active LRL proponent, why not? But first you have to make me beleive in that.
In my last 20 years i've been checking, testing and exploring many ideas based on LRL principles...made by me but also made by many other people.
So far NEITHER one proof to support it. Neither a moment where i was in doubts; is there something real in all this or not. Neither a moment! Nothing happened in those 20 years to make me to wander about it's reallity.
100% proofs that it is pseudo science, bogus and charlatanic.
Sorry if this sounds rude...but it is true.
Like Esteban; you also didn't gave here (or anywhere else that i know) any material clue, project, schematic...or whatever, to give people a hint, a clue...a slitest hope that there is something real in all those LRL mess.
...
So ...put yourself in my position and you will better understand my attitude.
I am not juddging your or Esteban's attitude at all. I am juddging your and Esteban's persistent insisting on tales and stories without slitest wish to support those with something more material.
But i will talk with both of you in future too. Our differences are not enough good reason to stop talking.

...
Your attitude upon Carl is unjust, partial and unfair. I never heard from Carl (in public, neither other way) nothing bad for you or anybody else.
As a matter of fact i never heard from him anything about you out of his public posts. He has not "followers", so as i see. He is most invisible and most absent admin i ever seen. His influence on me or any other member here is next to none.
Your personal argue with Carl is just what it is. I am not interested to mix in it. It is your thing and better to stay like that. I never juddged upon you or anybody else here relying on Carl's behavior and words (although i can not see nothing bad and unusall in those too - all i see is common argue, typical for all forums).

Regards!

Rule # 1:
Don't expect ever a working LRL schematic from me and most probable from Esteban also.
Reason? Do I really need to tell you? Hmm. Guess not. You are sufficiently intelligent to figure out why.
So, keep insisting on this here is just silly. Forget it. You or anyone who perpetuates this kind of proof request.

2 - Our main concern is that the devices we own, have built and projected, remain strictly in our own use. NOT COMERCIALLY intended.

3 - I did not need anybody here in the past to show me the way towards LRL technology I know today. I simply 'rubbed' my face in papers, scientific research teams and learned also a lot from the scientific comunity.
So, I believe if you do the same you will have better results.

4 - If you already did this as you said in your post, then you are in the same situation as Carl's. Trapped inside scientific limitations which avoid people to step one level above.
It's your choice. You either get free from it or die stuck on it. What I explained to you in my post about the phenomena is a good start for you to evolve. I have nothing more to tell you.

You see, skeptics have a peculiar and terrible attitude not only in this forum, but in others. When they face something they cannot comprehend, they tend to make fun and bash things. How stupid!
Learn man!

If I, Esteban, Art, G-Sani, Dman, Dell, Tim Williams and many others make use of LRLs and have found gold many times FROM LONG RANGE, insisting this is not real by skeptics is simply P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C.

You are very mistaken about Carl. Ask Dell Winders what I mean and you will know.

Finally, despite being a skeptic, you are relatively polite and have smarter attitudes than many here. Please keep it like that.

Regards.

hung

02-06-2010, 06:40 PM

The UV ... is absorbed by the surface of the earth. This parcel which is absorbed is THE ONLY souce of heat for our planet and it occurs during the sunlight period.

Absolutely correct. It's called radiant energy. The only source of heat is the one which is absorbed.

So, IT'S NOT the IR from the sun which is responsible for the heating process , but the UV short radiation absorbed which causes IR to be released by the earth's surface.Correct, the returning (reflected IR), refering to how the halo is expected to form around buried noble metals when in conjunction with magnetic fields of earth.

Proof: Get a camera, apply IR filter and process it with the right algorithms.
Another proof: The fire ball phenomena appearing over gold veins at night.

When you have voltage ... as a flowing constant also, resistance does oppose to it.You think of voltage as a potential. It's not only a potential, but also a flow as electromotive force.
Wake up! If voltage is too high it travels through the nucleous of the conductor. If lower it travesl through the surface!
Current is a 'control' of this flow.
Ask Mr. John Bedini to demonstrate his motor to you. Ask him what voltage is.
Note: This is not an opinion anymore.

When we speak of a certain amount of voltage being present in a circuit, we are referring to the measurement of how much potential energy exists to move electrons from one particular point in that circuit to another particular point.
Did you spot the error in this sentence? Here's a hint... I have a 1uF cap and a 100uF cap both charged to exactly 1 volt... which one has more potential energy? Which one has a higher electric potential?What??
Carl, how the examiner antenna aligns to a target?

No, resistance is an absolute quantity between two points. Unlike voltage, it is not relative.Absolutley wrong!
Well, unless you always work in constant temperature and use platinum diridium conductors.:lol:
Dude this is a falacy. It's relative. Relative to temperature and several other factors.

What's a PD board?A board that one of your followers inverted a transistor.

************8

Note: The text I used in Tnet was inserted by me from the net to reference my post.

Carl, if I had the time, I surely would post all mistakes, one by one from your LRL bogus(sorry) reports that you claim to be a scientific explanation for them not supposedly working.
If I only had the time....

Qiaozhi

02-06-2010, 07:02 PM

Rule # 1:
Don't expect ever a working LRL schematic from me and most probable from Esteban also.
Reason? Do I really need to tell you? Hmm. Guess not. You are sufficiently intelligent to figure out why.
Let me guess ... because you don't have one? :nono:

Qiaozhi

02-06-2010, 07:07 PM

Absolutely correct. It's called radiant energy. The only source of heat is the one which is absorbed.

Correct, the returning (reflected IR), refering to how the halo is expected to form around buried noble metals when in conjunction with magnetic fields of earth.

Proof: Get a camera, apply IR filter and process it with the right algorithms.
Another proof: The fire ball phenomena appearing over gold veins at night.

You think of voltage as a potential. It's not only a potential, but also a flow as electromotive force.
Wake up! If voltage is too high it travels through the nucleous of the conductor. If lower it travesl through the surface!
Current is a 'control' of this flow.
Ask Mr. John Bedini to demonstrate his motor to you. Ask him what voltage is.
Note: This is not an opinion anymore.

What??
Carl, how the examiner antenna aligns to a target?

Absolutley wrong!
Well, unless you always work in constant temperature and use platinum diridium conductors.:lol:
Dude this is a falacy. It's relative. Relative to temperature and several other factors.

A board that one of your followers inverted a transistor.

************8

Note: The text I used in Tnet was inserted by me from the net to reference my post.

Carl, if I had the time, I surely would post all mistakes, one by one from your LRL bogus(sorry) reports that you claim to be a scientific explanation for them not supposedly working.
If I only had the time....
Complete gobbledygook and pseudo-scientific nonsense.
Giving John Bedini and Dell Winders as references clearly demonstrates that you are "lost in space". :stars:

Carl-NC

02-06-2010, 07:17 PM

J_Player

02-06-2010, 07:26 PM

Dr. hung is teaching HungScience again!
Without looking any further than this forum thread, I found two new "facts" to add to the end of the collection of HungScience.

"Gold is the most powerful 'self defensive' metal when it comes to avoid any harm to its structure, such as rust, oxidation, etc. Its DNA produces a substance which coats the metal to fight against those 'threats'."
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=84058

This is the principle in which the Rangertell Examiner works. Resonance to the elements subatomic levels when a carrier signal line is shot and returned".
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=41226

"Back to the Examiner’s concept, there’s a portion in ECE which I already mentioned which might explain how the magnetic fields produced by the unit even diminute might be working provided one gets free of the standard Maxwell Heaviside concept and maybe start to find some backup on the Aharonov-Bohm and the field and potential relationship..."
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=63626 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=63626&postcount=10)

"If you navigate the internet correctly, you will find out how ALL scientific comunity in the world utilizes AIAS as basis for their research".
http://geotech1.com/forums/showthrea...3185#post63185 (http://geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=63185#post63185)

"So, there's no such thing as IR penetrating the soil or IR striking the surface of the earth".
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...tml#msg2132437 (http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,292891.msg2132437.html#msg2132437)

Carl-NC asks: The UV ... is absorbed by the surface of the earth. This parcel which is absorbed is THE ONLY souce of heat for our planet and it occurs during the sunlight period. Absolutely correct. It's called radiant energy. The only source of heat is the one which is absorbed.
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=106968

You think of voltage as a potential. It's not only a potential, but also a flow as electromotive force.
Wake up! If voltage is too high it travels through the nucleous of the conductor. If lower it travesl through the surface!
Current is a 'control' of this flow.
Ask Mr. John Bedini to demonstrate his motor to you. Ask him what voltage is.
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=106968

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Viva HungScience!

Best wishes,
J_P

ivconic

02-06-2010, 08:30 PM

Sad for you and your attitude. For all this you ask and ask me?
I notice that you're an only can discuss high topics! Persons like you degradate this forum. Also: if you don't have nothing workable and provable to offer here, what are you doing here! Of course, don't wish to post here because you're the first that comercialize such devices. This is real too!

Goodbye!

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Are you asking yourself this!?? :lol::lol::lol:

You don't have nothing workable and provable to offer here!

Esteban! So far you posted only nonsences and thumbnail schematics...also faked to make impression that there is something for real there!

What are YOU doing here Esteban???

Please point me to ONLY ONE of your previous post where you contributed to this forum by posting something real about LRL!?
ONLY ONE and i will be satisfied.....

You left my forum???
This is the first time that i heard about you being member of that forum, at all??????
Sorry but i didn't knew that!???
...
But if that's your final decision ...than GOODBYE and don't look back! :lol:

ivconic

02-06-2010, 08:38 PM

Rule # 1:
Don't expect ever a working LRL schematic from me and most probable from Esteban also........

Hung you are inteligent man, so that statement will not serve improving your image here.
...
Why not sharing at least less important projects with us here?

According to your and Esteban's previous posts we have impression that you already have hundreds of working LRL projects.
Especialy Esteban! He posted million claims and funny photos already.
...
So to close our mouths once for all, you could post AT LEAST ONE SMALL AND LESS IMPORTANT WORKING LRL PROJECT!? WHY DON'T YOU?
...
"We gonna make it comercial...get rich...."???

OK...
Than WHY DON'T YOU (OR ESTEBAN) MAKE IT COMERCIAL AND GET RICH???
AT LEAST WE OTHERs COULD HAVE POSSIBILITY TO BUY YOUR COMERCIAL DEVICE AND SEE THAT IT WAS FOR REAL ALL THE TIME...!

ivconic

02-06-2010, 08:45 PM

ESTEBAN:
"..2cm SINGLE COIN AT 75CM DEPTH IN SOIL is ABLE TO PRODUCE PHENOMENA DETECTABLE AT SOIL SURFACE WITH IR LRL !!!!!..."

HUNG:
"...Don't expect ever a working LRL schematic from me and most probable from Esteban also........"

Those two statements will mark the whole 2010. LRL year, that's for sure!

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

ivconic

02-06-2010, 09:11 PM

"...Of course, don't wish to post here because you're the first that comercialize such devices. This is real too!..."

Same excuse as Geo's!?

You don't have NOTHING to post here, only empty stories!

Than YOU MAKE IT COMERCIAL! C'MON!

Man who hold genial idea (or device) such as "working LRL" would be complete idiot not to comercialize it, sooner or later!

But you DON'T have such thing! You can only wish!
....

Besides...you have this forum (with much descent members) as CRUCIAL PROOF that idea came from you, if eventually i missuse it and make it comercial...
You could win me on any court in any country! So don't worry!

hung

02-06-2010, 09:45 PM

Dr. hung is teaching HungScience again!
Without looking any further than this forum thread, I found two new "facts" to add to the end of the collection of HungScience.

"Gold is the most powerful 'self defensive' metal when it comes to avoid any harm to its structure, such as rust, oxidation, etc. Its DNA produces a substance which coats the metal to fight against those 'threats'."
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=84058

This is the principle in which the Rangertell Examiner works. Resonance to the elements subatomic levels when a carrier signal line is shot and returned".
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=41226

"Back to the Examinerâ€™s concept, thereâ€™s a portion in ECE which I already mentioned which might explain how the magnetic fields produced by the unit even diminute might be working provided one gets free of the standard Maxwell Heaviside concept and maybe start to find some backup on the Aharonov-Bohm and the field and potential relationship..."
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=63626 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=63626&postcount=10)

"If you navigate the internet correctly, you will find out how ALL scientific comunity in the world utilizes AIAS as basis for their research".
http://geotech1.com/forums/showthrea...3185#post63185 (http://geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=63185#post63185)

"So, there's no such thing as IR penetrating the soil or IR striking the surface of the earth".
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...tml#msg2132437 (http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,292891.msg2132437.html#msg2132437)

Carl-NC asks: The UV ... is absorbed by the surface of the earth. This parcel which is absorbed is THE ONLY souce of heat for our planet and it occurs during the sunlight period. Absolutely correct. It's called radiant energy. The only source of heat is the one which is absorbed.
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=106968

You think of voltage as a potential. It's not only a potential, but also a flow as electromotive force.
Wake up! If voltage is too high it travels through the nucleous of the conductor. If lower it travesl through the surface!
Current is a 'control' of this flow.
Ask Mr. John Bedini to demonstrate his motor to you. Ask him what voltage is.
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=106968

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Viva HungScience!

Best wishes,
J_P

I do envy your available time...

hung

02-06-2010, 09:58 PM

Back to the "tells"...

The system 10 also offers a method of finding people buried in avalanches, and rubble, even finding dead bodies, and could be used in police searches for weapons, bombs, and narcotics.

Here we have the suggestion that this optical technology can "see through" rubble and avalanche debris (snow, mud) and detect people. Also weapons, bombs, narcotics... exact same claims made by bogus LRLs.

Whose or where is this quote above from?
What's a system 10?

Anyway, unlike some folks over Tnet, I do believe it's possible that long range locators are capable of finding people. Actually anything. Everything in universe AFAIK is comprised of frequencies. So if specific and relevant ones are known, why not?
Now, why sometimes or many times, these called LRLs fail in detectting bombs, bodies or whatever related?
I honestly don't know.
I can only speculate... Incorrect usage from operator? Wrong frequencies? Momentarily malfunction? Interferences?
Hard to say, but the ones I saw advertised for this task are always swivel types. So a great amount of operator skill to hold it right is required.

Carl, allow me to introduce a question to you.
What is your possible scientific explanation for the sucessful cases of psychics hired by the police finding the exact location of missing people?

hung

02-06-2010, 10:01 PM

OK...
Than WHY DON'T YOU (OR ESTEBAN) MAKE IT COMERCIAL AND GET RICH???

Sorry Ivconic, I don't have all this greed you think.

ivconic

02-06-2010, 10:37 PM

Sorry Ivconic, I don't have all this greed you think.

Nor than i. I just wanted to see, once for all, one working LRL. Pitty it won't happen....

Qiaozhi

02-06-2010, 11:23 PM

Now, why sometimes or many times, these called LRLs fail in detectting bombs, bodies or whatever related?
I honestly don't know.
You may not, but I do. Listen carefully and repeat after me ... "They do not work as advertised."

I can only speculate... Incorrect usage from operator? Wrong frequencies? Momentarily malfunction? Interferences?
Hard to say, but the ones I saw advertised for this task are always swivel types. So a great amount of operator skill to hold it right is required.
No amount of "operator skill" will ever produce the result that you advocate. When will you ever get it into your head that the ideomotor effect is responsible for the movement of the device. It has absolutely nothing to do with detection of targets at long range.

Theseus

02-07-2010, 12:25 AM

You may not, but I do. Listen carefully and repeat after me ... "They do not work as advertised."

No amount of "operator skill" will ever produce the result that you advocate. When will you ever get it into your head that the ideomotor effect is responsible for the movement of the device. It has absolutely nothing to do with detection of targets at long range.

Some folks will just never figure it out, even after they have been given tons of hints and overwhelming evidence.

The really sad cases are those that DO KNOW exactly how they work (or don't work) but because of a hidden agenda and financial reasons, will put on "the dumb act" to sucker the gullible and technically-challenged. :frown:

J_Player

02-07-2010, 05:59 AM

Some folks will just never figure it out, even after they have been given tons of hints and overwhelming evidence.

The really sad cases are those that DO KNOW exactly how they work (or don't work) but because of a hidden agenda and financial reasons, will put on "the dumb act" to sucker the gullible and technically-challenged. :frown:Hmmm...

Does this mean Carl-NC should take the hint and listen to an expert to figure out how voltage works?

You think of voltage as a potential. It's not only a potential, but also a flow as electromotive force.
Wake up! If voltage is too high it travels through the nucleous of the conductor. If lower it travesl through the surface!
Current is a 'control' of this flow.
Ask Mr. John Bedini to demonstrate his motor to you. Ask him what voltage is.
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=106968

In today's lecture we learned:
1. Voltage is also a flow of electromotive force.
2. Current is a 'control' of his flow.

:shocked:

Did Dr. hung teach Bedini, or did Bedini teach Dr. hung?

Best wishes,
J_P

J_Player

02-07-2010, 06:25 AM

Whose or where is this quote above from?
What's a system 10?....Have you considered reading the patent before asking what a system 10 is, or trying to teach us that the inventor made claims about wave packets?

Best wishes,
J_P

Carl-NC

02-07-2010, 06:34 AM

Whose or where is this quote above from?
What's a system 10?

It's a direct quote from the patent. Try reading it.

Everything in universe AFAIK is comprised of frequencies. The operative term here is "AFAIK".

Carl, allow me to introduce a question to you.
What is your possible scientific explanation for the sucessful cases of psychics hired by the police finding the exact location of missing people?I'm not aware of successful cases. In the many cases I've read about where psychics make claims of successfully helping police, those claims never hold up under independent investigation. It seems that the psychics are frauds.

Carl-NC

02-07-2010, 06:42 AM

J_Player

02-07-2010, 07:02 AM

More tells...

These response signals, are low in frequency, and are electrically weak, which is to say that their source impedance is extremely high even though their voltage levels may be moderate to high. Actual values are difficult to measure, and are not yet known, because an adequate model has not been built. Response signals have been found in the frequency band from nearly DC to approximately 200 MHz.

First, These response signals ... are electrically weak, which is to say that their source impedance is extremely high even though their voltage levels may be moderate to high is a laughable statement by itself. Then, Actual values are difficult to measure, and are not yet known, because an adequate model has not been built. Huh? They have no idea of the actual values? And they can't measure them because they haven't built a model? But wait! Response signals have been found in the frequency band from nearly DC to approximately 200 MHz. Apparently they have measured them! Hurray! Write a patent!I saw this and some more "tells" that left me wondering what his objective was in writing the patent.
My impression is he wanted to be paid royalties from anyone who could figure out how to make it work. He included enough alternate embodiments to make claims on devices using digital signal processing and a laser with 2-beam detection of laser or RF combinations for remote detection. It seems like a cool plan, but it didn't work. He is not collecting royalties as far as I can determine.

Maybe he is waiting for someone to sell a working remote laser locator in the USA so he can sign a licensing agreement.

Best wishes,
J_P

Carl-NC

02-07-2010, 07:39 AM

Tells galore... here's a biggie...

In his book, The Nature of the Chemical Bond, Linus Pauling, explored the wave-like nature of electrons, and showed how, in chemical bonds, electrons form a stable waveform when considered as a mutual resonance of two waveforms. Now, electrons are charged particles, so it follows that they can be moved (attracted, or repelled) by electric fields, and if the frequency of an alternating E field is adjusted, suitably, the resonant chemical bond will vibrate and eventually break causing an electron to be ejected, like a stone from a sling.

Unfortunately, Pauling's use of "resonance" wasn't in the normal sense of vibration, but rather he meant it as a "hybrid" bond. The inventors completely misunderstood his paper. Or completely misrepresented it.

hung

02-07-2010, 11:08 AM

When we speak of a certain amount of voltage being present in a circuit, we are referring to the measurement of how much potential energy exists to move electrons from one particular point in that circuit to another particular point.

Did you spot the error in this sentence?
Just like voltage, resistance is a quantity relative between two points.

No, resistance is an absolute quantity between two points. Unlike voltage, it is not relative.

It seems that the psychics are fraud. The quotes I set above pretty much summarizes how you think science.
When I told you to read my answer to Af in that thread in Tnet, it had a reason and it was not out of purpose. It serves perfectly to your case.

Your view of science is obviously an orthodox one and also has mistaken concepts.
Your statement that resistance is an 'absolute value' can't even be arguable. This is a primary mistake. You must or at least should know that resistance is relative.
Your view of voltage definiftion is limited to what you learned by some books. But apparently you never cared to go beyond that. Voltage is also flow. It's electromotive force. Thus passive to suffer resistance.

In a constructive critical view, you present what can be called 'pre-conceived' ideas. You have basic ideas that you think are correct and immutable, although some are wrong as in the case above.
This kind of attitude is the number one reason why it's so hard to input new OR corrected data in a system which simply won't accept a recall of this data.
When you pre-conceive ideas, there's almost no room to rearrange them in the correct way if ever needed.

When I ask you about a 'plausible' scientific explanation to deal with in the psychic's case, your answer is... 'I'm not aware,'... 'I've read'... and finally, 'it seems that the psychics are fraud'.

What a terrible scientific mind you have my friend.
You deny a possible fact by own self denial of data.

Brilliant minds in science have always stated that the more you learn, the more you are able to see what is left to learn!
This is obvsiously not your case. You think that with the amount of data you presently own, wrong or right, you are able to explain everything and when not possible, you discard it as what? Fraud...
Actually many of your followers think the same WRONG AND MISTAKEN way. And then they self proclaim them 'science experts' here in this forum.
Do you really think this is science Carl? Uh?

I will remind you what I told to Af. It's impossible to discuss a book with someone who has never read that book. Do you think it is possible? When we wish to discuss chapter 6 for instance, how would you know what I would be talking about if you did not read this chapter of the whole book?

It's really hard to discuss LRL science with you. The reason is obvious. The difference between you and me is that when I face something I don't understand, what do I do? I go study it and research it. What do you do? Deny first. Then if possible, study it.
Preconceived idea.

This is about what I had to say to you. I was going to post a proof to show you how you are wrong in the psychic's ability of remote sensing that happened to me, but...hey, it's not worth it. Not worth to tell to you or here. Never mind.
Follow your way. I will follow mine always wanting to learn each day and assuring I'm always open to learn new things.
In your case, I am positive that it might take years if necessary, probably in the late old age, but you will eventually awake. This is called evolution.

Dell might lack complex scientific data, but the statement he made is just perfect in scientific terms:
'The door to knowledge is never open to a closed mind'.
Someday you might understand the deep meaning of this sentence.
Good bye Carl.

Esteban

02-07-2010, 11:21 AM

Back to serious things:
I believe the halo and your observed effect is the same or closely related, and induce local changes in soil conductivity, by direct contamination, molecular arrangement (similar to iron powder that will follow magnetic "lines"), or ion propagation if you like.
This anomaly is probably more vertically oriented, as JP pointed.
There is a voltage gradient above the surface , but also below.By changing the conductivity, it will locally shortcut it.
It could even be visualised as a (conductive) rod vertically stuck in the earth.

Serious things? Now, you wish to discuss "serious things" here in remote sensing? :lol:

He use this alias (Stevan) maybe to confussed people or not? :rolleyes:

Esteban

02-07-2010, 11:36 AM

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Are you asking yourself this!?? :lol::lol::lol:

You don't have nothing workable and provable to offer here!

Esteban! So far you posted only nonsences and thumbnail schematics...also faked to make impression that there is something for real there!

What are YOU doing here Esteban???

Please point me to ONLY ONE of your previous post where you contributed to this forum by posting something real about LRL!?
ONLY ONE and i will be satisfied.....

You left my forum???
This is the first time that i heard about you being member of that forum, at all??????
Sorry but i didn't knew that!???
...
But if that's your final decision ...than GOODBYE and don't look back! :lol:

Of course, I have these schematics. But no need to prove you. Why? Also I have many MD schematics never posted here, you don't have, sure!!! In few words, I have more than you of all types!!!

The goodbye is for you, no for many others members of forums.

I'm not member of your forum, please! :lol: I open your forum. But my congratulations Mr. Stevan (you, the admin) for such important pages... :lol:

I was member years ago, but the admin radiates me for no participate in it... :lol: I receive a email: "due your long no participation...", etc., go home! Good forum! :lol: :lol:

Everybody can visit, and see in first page your name: Stevan. :lol: :lol:

Esteban

02-07-2010, 11:38 AM

Hung you are inteligent man, so that statement will not serve improving your image here.
...
Why not sharing at least less important projects with us here?

According to your and Esteban's previous posts we have impression that you already have hundreds of working LRL projects.
Especialy Esteban! He posted million claims and funny photos already.
...
So to close our mouths once for all, you could post AT LEAST ONE SMALL AND LESS IMPORTANT WORKING LRL PROJECT!? WHY DON'T YOU?
...
"We gonna make it comercial...get rich...."???

OK...
Than WHY DON'T YOU (OR ESTEBAN) MAKE IT COMERCIAL AND GET RICH???
AT LEAST WE OTHERs COULD HAVE POSSIBILITY TO BUY YOUR COMERCIAL DEVICE AND SEE THAT IT WAS FOR REAL ALL THE TIME...!

Do you see? Your own words betrayed you! :shocked: Is necessary to added more?

Esteban

02-07-2010, 11:42 AM

Esteban

02-07-2010, 11:50 AM

*** Quote removed at request of Ivconic. ***

Go to the hell! The ignorant are you... totally ignorant and illiterate in RS questions. :lol: :lol:

Esteban

02-07-2010, 11:52 AM

*** Quote removed at request of Ivconic. ***

I have excess of brain... do you want a few? :lol:

Esteban

02-07-2010, 11:54 AM

Is not the first time that you used words as "lunatic," "idiot," etc., against me. But now you added more... Time to...

Qiaozhi

02-07-2010, 11:55 AM

Your view of science is obviously an orthodox one and also has mistaken concepts.
Your statement that resistance is an 'absolute value' can't even be arguable. This is a primary mistake. You must or at least should know that resistance is relative.
Your view of voltage definiftion is limited to what you learned by some books. But apparently you never cared to go beyond that. Voltage is also flow. It's electromotive force. Thus passive to suffer resistance.
I cannot believe that at one time I actually thought you were an honest amateur experimenter like Esteban. Now it is blatantly clear that you are completely deranged, and a blind follower of Myron Evans, Bedini, Bearden, etc., and their own brand of nonsensical pseudoscience.

When I ask you about a 'plausible' scientific explanation to deal with in the psychic's case, your answer is... 'I'm not aware,'... 'I've read'... and finally, 'it seems that the psychics are fraud'.

What a terrible scientific mind you have my friend.
You deny a possible fact by own self denial of data.
Again, you expose yourself as a psychic warrior, forever lost in a fantasy world. Asking for a 'plausible' scientific explanation, for a psychic's ability to find lost people, is akin to the "When did you stop beating your wife?" question. It makes an completely erroneous assumption. No so-called psychic has ever found a lost person by psychic means alone. It's the blind squirrel syndrome.

Brilliant minds in science have always stated that the more you learn, the more you are able to see what is left to learn!
But first you need to learn something. :razz: In your particular case, there is a huge amount you need to forget. Then you might just be back at the foot of ladder to real knowledge. :lol:

This is obvsiously not your case. You think that with the amount of data you presently own, wrong or right, you are able to explain everything and when not possible, you discard it as what? Fraud...
Actually many of your followers think the same WRONG AND MISTAKEN way. And then they self proclaim them 'science experts' here in this forum.
Do you really think this is science Carl? Uh?
Of course science is not presently able to explain everything, and I'm sure you are well aware of this fact. But there is no need to invoke mystical and/or paranormal explanations. That is a completely non-scientific approach and leaves you open to ridicule.

I will remind you what I told to Af. It's impossible to discuss a book with someone who has never read that book. Do you think it is possible? When we wish to discuss chapter 6 for instance, how would you know what I would be talking about if you did not read this chapter of the whole book?
No idea what you're babbling about here. What book?

It's really hard to discuss LRL science with you. The reason is obvious. The difference between you and me is that when I face something I don't understand, what do I do? I go study it and research it. What do you do? Deny first. Then if possible, study it.
Preconceived idea.
It appears that your own approach is simply to jump to the conclusion that the unknown phenomenon must have a pseudo-scientific explanation. Why not try explaining it using real science, or subject it to a properly controlled double-blind test? In this case you can eliminate it as self-deception and selective memory, in the same way as dowsing has been dismissed on several occasions. But of course you would actually have to have studied the test results to understand this. :rolleyes:

This is about what I had to say to you. I was going to post a proof to show you how you are wrong in the psychic's ability of remote sensing that happened to me, but...hey, it's not worth it. Not worth to tell to you or here. Never mind.
This is no surprise, as there is none.

Follow your way. I will follow mine always wanting to learn each day and assuring I'm always open to learn new things.
In your case, I am positive that it might take years if necessary, probably in the late old age, but you will eventually awake. This is called evolution.
Fine ... you do that! But just keep your conclusions to yourself.

Dell might lack complex scientific data, but the statement he made is just perfect in scientific terms:
'The door to knowledge is never open to a closed mind'.
I absolutely agree, and both you and Dell are excellent living examples. :razz:
Goodbye Hung.

Esteban

02-07-2010, 11:57 AM

Is not the first time that you used words as "lunatic," "idiot," etc., against me. But now you added more... Time to...

... added you in "the list":

Geo

02-07-2010, 12:11 PM

Esteban, Calm:)
This person makes enemy every believer to LRLs...
Why not and you:lol:
Regards:)

ivconic

02-07-2010, 12:12 PM

Go to the hell! The ignorant are you... totally ignorant and illiterate in RS questions. :lol: :lol:

As agnostic i don't beleive in hell and heaven, so simply i can't go there.
Yes i admit; i am total ignorant and 100% illiterate in RS questions you were talked about. That's for sure!

Look; i did you a great favour now!
Instead to insist on Your explanations on this claim:

2cm SINGLE COIN AT 75CM DEPTH IN SOIL is ABLE TO PRODUCE PHENOMENA DETECTABLE AT SOIL SURFACE WITH IR LRL !!!!!

I made mistake and started to argue with you! My mistake! We spoiled this topic.
It is not to late you to explain you claim:

2cm SINGLE COIN AT 75CM DEPTH IN SOIL is ABLE TO PRODUCE PHENOMENA DETECTABLE AT SOIL SURFACE WITH IR LRL !!!!!

ivconic

02-07-2010, 12:17 PM

Esteban, Calm:)
This person makes enemy every believer to LRLs...
Why not and you:lol:
Regards:)

Wrong Geo!
I do not consider you or Esteban as real enemies. You are my "enemies" here on forum ONLY when you are talking things that are NOT TRUE.
You felt much offended with my sincere doubts in your claims about working LRL. Why?
You should be ready to face such doubts anywhere in public by anyone.
Are you gonna get very angry on anyone else too?

Esteban

02-07-2010, 12:36 PM

Esteban, Calm:)
This person makes enemy every believer to LRLs...
Why not and you:lol:
Regards:)

I'm in peace with all the world. But if somebody explode in this manner, not remedy... Now, I know that Max is better person! :lol: I can't read anymore his posts, don't wish to read anymore. Don't wish to see his schematics. I have thousands, no need him. :nono:

ivconic

02-07-2010, 12:48 PM

I'm in peace with all the world. But if somebody explode in this manner, not remedy... Now, I know that Max is better person! :lol: I can't read anymore his posts, don't wish to read anymore. Don't wish to see his schematics. I have thousands, no need him. :nono:

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Yes, and i know why Esteban don't wish to see my posts!!

Because of this:

2cm SINGLE COIN AT 75CM DEPTH IN SOIL is ABLE TO PRODUCE PHENOMENA DETECTABLE AT SOIL SURFACE WITH IR LRL !!!!!

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

P.S.
I agree; Max is much better and much SMARTER person than me. That's why he left debates and argues with LRL proponents! I am about to do the same, pretty soon...

Carl-NC

02-07-2010, 05:03 PM

Ivica, please cut out the personal comments. Esteban is free to share or not share whatever he wants. I will begin lopping posts if this continues.

ivconic

02-07-2010, 05:15 PM

Ivica, please cut out the personal comments. Esteban is free to share or not share whatever he wants. I will begin lopping posts if this continues.

Accepted.

P.S.
I also expect those to "cut out the personal comments" about me and stop mentioning my name here and on other threads...

hung

02-07-2010, 05:17 PM

Carl-NC

02-07-2010, 05:38 PM

You must or at least should know that resistance is relative.

When I measure the voltage of a node, I must measure it with respect to some other node. It is a relative measurement. When I measure the resistance of a path, what is it relative to? Some other path? Of course not, it's an independent property of the path. This is literally Circuits 101. If you don't understand this, then you probably don't know much else about circuits, which I strongly suspect is the case.

When I ask you about a 'plausible' scientific explanation to deal with in the psychic's case, your answer is... 'I'm not aware,'... 'I've read'... and finally, 'it seems that the psychics are fraud'.Show me.

Provide me the name of a U.S. law enforcement agency who endorses the use of psychics in locating missing persons, including the name of a contact person and how to reach them. I will gladly contact that person and verify that they endorse psychics, and that psychics have specifically assisted them in locating missing persons.

Fred

02-07-2010, 05:39 PM

Simply these people don't share the type of knowledge we have.

Thank you for admitting it .You see, you can be realist when you want...

I am ready to leave this forum for good with you if you chooses it so and get back to the email closed group with the few selected members.
CanÂ´t you alone just leave it and let Esteban do what he wants? at least he doesnÂ´t fill posts with ridiculous pseudo-scientific BS.
That would be cool, although i often have fun and laugh when i read you posts.

hung

02-07-2010, 06:10 PM

CanÂ´t you alone just leave it and let Esteban do what he wants? at least he doesnÂ´t fill posts with ridiculous pseudo-scientific BS.
That would be cool, although i often have fun and laugh when i read you posts.

:lol: blood sucking leech.:lol::lol:

Grow up kid, before you try to vomit science:razz:

J_Player

02-07-2010, 06:32 PM

:lol: blood sucking leech.:lol::lol:

Grow up kid, before you try to vomit science:razz:Vomit science?
Who has been vomiting science?

"Gold is the most powerful 'self defensive' metal when it comes to avoid any harm to its structure, such as rust, oxidation, etc. Its DNA produces a substance which coats the metal to fight against those 'threats'."
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=84058

This is the principle in which the Rangertell Examiner works. Resonance to the elements subatomic levels when a carrier signal line is shot and returned".
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=41226

"Back to the Examiner’s concept, there’s a portion in ECE which I already mentioned which might explain how the magnetic fields produced by the unit even diminute might be working provided one gets free of the standard Maxwell Heaviside concept and maybe start to find some backup on the Aharonov-Bohm and the field and potential relationship..."
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=63626 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=63626&postcount=10)

"If you navigate the internet correctly, you will find out how ALL scientific comunity in the world utilizes AIAS as basis for their research".
http://geotech1.com/forums/showthrea...3185#post63185 (http://geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=63185#post63185)

"So, there's no such thing as IR penetrating the soil or IR striking the surface of the earth".
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...tml#msg2132437 (http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,292891.msg2132437.html#msg2132437)

Carl-NC asks: The UV ... is absorbed by the surface of the earth. This parcel which is absorbed is THE ONLY souce of heat for our planet and it occurs during the sunlight period. Absolutely correct. It's called radiant energy. The only source of heat is the one which is absorbed.
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=106968

You think of voltage as a potential. It's not only a potential, but also a flow as electromotive force.
Wake up! If voltage is too high it travels through the nucleous of the conductor. If lower it travesl through the surface!
Current is a 'control' of this flow.
Ask Mr. John Bedini to demonstrate his motor to you. Ask him what voltage is.
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=106968

Ooops that's not science.... It's HungScience!

Since you brought up the topic of blood sucking leeches, it seems to me that Esteban does not share this special kind of "knowledge" you have.
I can't imagine Esteban agreeing about gold DNA or a substance it produces, or that voltage is a flow, or any of the other HungScience you have been vomiting.

You have convinced me you do not have the ability to build a working long range locator. This is why I am wondering why you are waiting for Esteban's decision to leave so you can follow him. Are you the leech who sucks his blood in exchange for agreeing with all he says?
Certainly you are not capable of producing interesting experimental devices that do what he claims.
Esteban may not want to send his designs to manufacturers, but he has a healthy respect for real science, and has showed in his forum posts he obviously understands the principles of electronic circuits. He does not allow nonsense about electronics prevent him from getting his circuits right. He also stands on his own two feet. He does not hide behind Myron Evans, or Bedini or Hutchinson to defend his point of view.

You seem so anxious to leave. Have you considered leaving on your own for forums run by Myron Evans and his followers?
They won't tell you your science is wrong. You could be happy there. Bearden, Hutchinson, Bedini, and hundreds of their followers will all agree with you and help you develop more theories. (Well, maybe they won't agree with the part about gold DNA producing a substance that coats the surface to prevent oxidation).

But best of all, you don't need to wait for Esteban to make your exodus. Unless you need him for blood sucking purposes or to hide behind.
(Just a suggestion)

Best wishes,
J_P

Fred

02-07-2010, 08:01 PM

:lol: blood sucking leech.:lol::lol:

Sound like a pleonasm to me.

Hungscience, acima de tudo!

(hungscience, above everything!)

WM6

02-07-2010, 08:03 PM

Grow up kid, before you try to vomit science:razz:

Hung, you are right, sceptic here cannot manage by basic logic.

It is simple explanation why IR can reach so deep. Here it is, as example:

If we can detect and control by IR remote at huge distance one such complex thing as say TV, why we cannot detect and control by IR one simple thing as a silver or gold coin.

I cannot understand how sceptic can oppose such simple logical argument?

ivconic

02-07-2010, 08:15 PM

Esteban, I have warned you many times about the things that have just happened. Simply these people don't share the type of knowledge we have.
It would be just a matter of time for this to happen to you.

Again, we already have working LRLs, and also we evolved along time in this matter. There's no reason for you to remain here reading the posts we use to read. We need to evolve this discussion with higher subjects, not keep referencing things with the ones who ignore them and always will. If we put everybody on the ignore list, we will end up getting rid of them but still they will read us and to our own ideas.
Our email closed group was much more profitable in terms of knowledge. I am currently more on TNET as sketptics there are more educated and LRL users are always in advantage since we are in great number and the skeptics are just annoying a little bit.
I am ready to leave this forum for good with you if you chooses it so and get back to the email closed group with the few selected members.
You can also filter this forum in a way that you only watch it with no personal participation.

Whatever you choose let me know.
Again, we don't need keep discussing things in this forum anymore. It's much past the time to quit this.

Regards.

That's not a friendly advice.
Whenever face the obstacle - to run away from it.

More friendly advice would be something in manner:

"...oh hell! let's give to this sceptics at least something, good enough to persuade them in our "truth".."

Look at me; whenever i want to attract public attention to some project i simply do post everything! Simply as that!
It is not that i am affraid to loose something!? What will i loose?
I can only profit from that by collecting others opinions, hints and advices, later after project was posted.
Many times same thing happened; in the middle of progress i stucked somewhere, or made some mistake, or missunderstood something. Than i posted everything and shortly after i got solution from others. For 80% of my working devices i have to thank to others , mostly members of these forums.
...
Even when i didn't need any help, even when i had working device by my own - even than i decided to post everything and to share with others. Why? Simply because i have nothing to loose. And also why not to share with people. Why not?
Do i am affraid that somebody will take advantage of my work and make a fortune!? Hell no! If that one is capable to make a fortune than why not? I will salute to him and his fortune! Better even he than nobody...
...
But..that's only me. I guess i am to naive for this world...

ivconic

02-07-2010, 08:31 PM

Look just White's, Minelab, Tesoro, Fisher, Cscope, Garrett...etc..etc..
Do they busted because we here are copying their intelectual property? Do they complain on us? Do they prohibit majority of their project documentation?
I don't think so.
They are probably not happy but also they didn't busted. Also many of them released much of project documentation free. Not for latest technology , of course. But even if they release their latest technology for free...what than?
Who can take advantage of that? Who will bust them?
N O B O D Y ! Not possible! Not in this world.

Than i don't understand why is so conspiracy present arround "working LRL"???
Only one way to explain that - no such thing as working LRL. Those don't exist. Those are just sweet dreams and nothing else...

Subject of this topic is excellent example of bogus interpretation of some scientific quotes.
Scientific quotes taken from their origin context and mixed up togather with pseudoscience...and all that packed in a regular patent! Wow!
I am (not) impressed!

Astrodetect

02-08-2010, 01:25 PM

You don't have nothing workable and provable to offer here!

Esteban! So far you posted only nonsences and thumbnail schematics...also faked to make impression that there is something for real there!

What are YOU doing here Esteban???

Please point me to ONLY ONE of your previous post where you contributed to this forum by posting something real about LRL!?
ONLY ONE and i will be satisfied.....

[/quote]

Thats not true Ivconic,Esteban has contributed a very large amount of information on this subject.Also he has given many block diagrams on how the LRL's are working and about Infrared also.If you do a view ALL topics from Esteban you will see how much Esteban has contributed to this forum. About giving out schematics, if you have the block diagram I imagine you can come up with a working circuit, dont you think??

Thanks Esteban Hung Morgan Tim Dell Detectoman Geo and anybody else who works with LRL's, keep posting your experiences and information on this fascinating subject. Dont forget US.Forget the Skeptics!!!!!!!
Thankshttp://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif...............

Astrodetect

02-08-2010, 01:31 PM

ivconic

02-08-2010, 02:13 PM

"..Thats not true Ivconic,Esteban has contributed a very large amount of information on this subject.Also he has given many block diagrams on how the LRL's are working and about Infrared also.If you do a view ALL topics from Esteban you will see how much Esteban has contributed to this forum. About giving out schematics, if you have the block diagram I imagine you can come up with a working circuit, dont you think??

Thanks Esteban Hung Morgan Tim Dell Detectoman Geo and anybody else who works with LRL's, keep posting your experiences and information on this fascinating subject. Dont forget US.Forget the Skeptics!!!!!!!
Thanks.."

It was my quote from his post aimed to me. So it was only rethorical.
Of course that i agree about Estebans contribution. I am awared of that already. But in a heat of argue i just quoted that like contra argument.
Childish games...me, him, evrybody else...
Now i am cool and do not intend to keep with such stuff.
As far as i am concerned, LRL topics would be out of my focus from now on...because i already have been told by Esteban and Hung that i will never get nothing from them. So...why wasting my time here, anymore?
Regards!

Esteban

02-08-2010, 03:15 PM

You don't have nothing workable and provable to offer here!

Esteban! So far you posted only nonsences and thumbnail schematics...also faked to make impression that there is something for real there!

What are YOU doing here Esteban???

Please point me to ONLY ONE of your previous post where you contributed to this forum by posting something real about LRL!?
ONLY ONE and i will be satisfied.....

Thats not true Ivconic,Esteban has contributed a very large amount of information on this subject.Also he has given many block diagrams on how the LRL's are working and about Infrared also.If you do a view ALL topics from Esteban you will see how much Esteban has contributed to this forum. About giving out schematics, if you have the block diagram I imagine you can come up with a working circuit, dont you think??

Thanks Esteban Hung Morgan Tim Dell Detectoman Geo and anybody else who works with LRL's, keep posting your experiences and information on this fascinating subject. Dont forget US.Forget the Skeptics!!!!!!!
Thankshttp://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif...............[/quote]

Thanks. But you don't need respond him. You're in risk to suffer all types of insults by the other "Stevan", you know "who" is. I ignored him and others few.

ivconic

02-08-2010, 03:19 PM

Ivica, please cut out the personal comments. Esteban is free to share or not share whatever he wants. I will begin lopping posts if this continues.

Carl do you have double standards here?

WM6

02-08-2010, 04:49 PM

I ignored him and others few.

Then you admit that you are ignorant.

Impotence argument is still ignorance.

Morgan

02-09-2010, 12:02 AM

Thats not true Ivconic,Esteban has contributed a very large amount of information on this subject.Also he has given many block diagrams on how the LRL's are working and about Infrared also.If you do a view ALL topics from Esteban you will see how much Esteban has contributed to this forum. About giving out schematics, if you have the block diagram I imagine you can come up with a working circuit, dont you think??

Thanks Esteban Hung Morgan Tim Dell Detectoman Geo and anybody else who works with LRL's, keep posting your experiences and information on this fascinating subject. Dont forget US.Forget the Skeptics!!!!!!!
Thankshttp://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif...............

Thanks. But you don't need respond him. You're in risk to suffer all types of insults by the other "Stevan", you know "who" is. I ignored him and others few.[/quote]
Hi Esteban

I share the same opinion as Astrodetect about you,but as you can see costantly you are victim of insult from skeptics? I dont think so,insults come allways from people who believe in LRLÂ´s BUT WANT YOU GIVE WORKING LRL FOR THEM,this not happen,start the war...
Yes,you give so many schematics and clues about LRLÂ´s,but they want one complete !!!
Why you dont give them what they want???
I give them the Pistoldetektor,they are not satisfied,NOW ITS YOUR TURN ;)
The best LRL teacher
Regards

Morgan

02-09-2010, 12:15 AM

Thanks. But you don't need respond him. You're in risk to suffer all types of insults by the other "Stevan", you know "who" is. I ignored him and others few.
Hi Esteban

I share the same opinion as Astrodetect about you,but as you can see costantly you are victim of insult from skeptics? I dont think so,insults come allways from people who believe in LRLÂ´s BUT WANT YOU GIVE WORKING LRL FOR THEM,this not happen,start the war...
Yes,you give so many schematics and clues about LRLÂ´s,but they want one complete !!!
Why you dont give them what they want???
I give them the Pistoldetektor,they are not satisfied,NOW ITS YOUR TURN ;)
The best LRL teacher
Regards[/quote]

I have schematics of most LRLÂ´s (was given by friends,other i buy)

MINEORO
DCH85
BLUE PD (Esteban version of DCH85)
ICONOS
OKM figther
BFO PD
IB PD(Alonso)
RAM-KA
Zahori

A lot of them,but wath happens if i put this schematics here?, I WILL HAVE BIG PROBLEMS...
So,Esteban you are the person who can give ONE LRL to this forum,something that you can share with this people and not regret .

Abrazos

Geo

02-09-2010, 07:24 AM

Hi Morgan.
I believe that it is not the time that Esteban will post a full working LRL.
He will tell some secrets yet, slowly-slowly and maybe to later to give a schematic for the others, because all we would be very old:lol::lol: for TH.

Regards:)

WM6

02-09-2010, 09:44 AM

He will tell some secrets yet, slowly-slowly and maybe to later to give a schematic for the others, because all we would be very old:lol::lol: for TH.

Hi Geo,

what secrets post Esteban yet? I didnt find any.

The only carefully kept Esteban secret is that no one of his creations is working. No one!

This showed Esteban itself in that he is time and time again looking for a working LRL.

All is only disgrace concealed in the secret - old manipulators trick.

If Esteban really have a working LRL, would have posted it long ago. But they have nothing, except funny creations.

Estebans only solution is packaged failure in mystery of secrets.

Sceptic are open to LRL research and are willing to contribute in all real LRL things, but not open to scam companies as mineoro, rangertell etc. and his promotors. Here must be clear distinctions between hobby and scam business.

You are right: "all we would be very old", maybe we need even seven reincarnation.

Esteban

02-09-2010, 12:35 PM

Hi Esteban

I share the same opinion as Astrodetect about you,but as you can see costantly you are victim of insult from skeptics? I dont think so,insults come allways from people who believe in LRLÂ´s BUT WANT YOU GIVE WORKING LRL FOR THEM,this not happen,start the war...
Yes,you give so many schematics and clues about LRLÂ´s,but they want one complete !!!
Why you dont give them what they want???
I give them the Pistoldetektor,they are not satisfied,NOW ITS YOUR TURN ;)
The best LRL teacher
Regards

I have schematics of most LRLÂ´s (was given by friends,other i buy)

MINEORO
DCH85
BLUE PD (Esteban version of DCH85)
ICONOS
OKM figther
BFO PD
IB PD(Alonso)
RAM-KA
Zahori

A lot of them,but wath happens if i put this schematics here?, I WILL HAVE BIG PROBLEMS...
So,Esteban you are the person who can give ONE LRL to this forum,something that you can share with this people and not regret .

Abrazos[/quote]

I am acting as a prudent person. Then the time gives me the reason.

WM6

02-09-2010, 12:55 PM

I am acting as a prudent person. Then the time gives me the reason.

Reason for what? To not publish schematic of working LRL?

Are you publish such schematic in past "as a prudent person"? No, you never publish nothing, except yet published "copy-paste" thing and electronic bizzarities.

But now you are world biggest victim pushed in secrecy and in creation of ignore list.

Fred

02-09-2010, 02:36 PM

A lot of them,but wath happens if i put this schematics here?, I WILL HAVE BIG PROBLEMS...
What problems? patents problems ? :rolleyes:
In this forum there is a lot of schematics of (really) patented detectors from really big companies, it is all right and nobody has got "BIG PROBLEMS".

detectoman

02-09-2010, 05:39 PM

in years of help, esteban gave we all the neccesary for everybody can build easy no one but very much lrls, may be yours, like to an easy put in hand lrl detector working
then the future of true treasure hunters be finish, invasion
feber of gold everysite, the prospection how bussines and people job
esteban thank very much, usted esta en la razon ha hecho lo debido, gracias
the fields are free

Fred

02-09-2010, 08:00 PM

in years of help, esteban gave we all the neccesary for everybody can build easy no one but very much lrls, may be yours, like to an easy put in hand lrl detector working

construir algo que no se sabe si algun dia funciono he alli la diferencia
(to build something that we donÂ´t know if it ever worked here is the diference)

:D

Geo

02-09-2010, 09:38 PM

Hi Geo,

what secrets post Esteban yet? I didnt find any.

The only carefully kept Esteban secret is that no one of his creations is working. No one!

This showed Esteban itself in that he is time and time again looking for a working LRL.

All is only disgrace concealed in the secret - old manipulators trick.

If Esteban really have a working LRL, would have posted it long ago. But they have nothing, except funny creations.

Estebans only solution is packaged failure in mystery of secrets.

Sceptic are open to LRL research and are willing to contribute in all real LRL things, but not open to scam companies as mineoro, rangertell etc. and his promotors. Here must be clear distinctions between hobby and scam business.

You are right: "all we would be very old", maybe we need even seven reincarnation.

Hi WM6.
I am not lawyer of Esteban but i will tell some words.
Some times i was very hard with Esteban, but now i believe that i had not full of right. So you must not be so hard with him. Esteban gave us some secrets for Pistol Detector. Also he showed us how is the DCH inside. We saw some Mineoro inside when he made modifications on them. He gave us the article of Andy Flind MFD and what loop to construct so to locate objects from Large distance. Also he showed us the photo of inside the yellow pistol. If you look carefully all these, then it is easy to construct a LRL.
Believe me!!!!

Morgan

02-09-2010, 10:16 PM

Hi WM6.
I am not lawyer of Esteban but i will tell some words.
Some times i was very hard with Esteban, but now i believe that i had not full of right. So you must not be so hard with him. Esteban gave us some secrets for Pistol Detector. Also he showed us how is the DCH inside. We saw some Mineoro inside when he made modifications on them. He gave us the article of Andy Flind MFD and what loop to construct so to locate objects from Large distance. Also he showed us the photo of inside the yellow pistol. If you look carefully all these, then it is easy to construct a LRL.
Believe me!!!!
ThatÂ´s the LRL clues i was talking about ;)

Esteban

02-10-2010, 01:41 PM

Geo

02-10-2010, 01:56 PM

How can he know if is new here?

Yes, but never is too late:)

Esteban

02-11-2010, 03:16 PM

Of course, schematics exist, maybe hundreds or 1,000, but skeptical are more! :lol:

Esteban

02-11-2010, 03:27 PM

Another...

Esteban

02-11-2010, 03:40 PM

Esteban

02-11-2010, 03:46 PM

See distance expected by BFO-radio pistol. Begining of the 80's.

WM6

02-11-2010, 03:48 PM

Idea. BFO was used in combination with radio with many success! What happens if oscillation of BFO are used for to elevates the voltage, for example, to 1,000 V, and is used as a LRL? The configuration coil Tesla style also is used for electronic LRL. Don't experimented yet.

Yes, Esteban, this scheme can be very usable as mosquito killer.

I do not understand why you need to hide parts data in so simple and widely known schematic as scheme 2 in post #188?

Maybe you are embarrassed that someone would find out that you copied textbook case of NE555?

Fred

02-11-2010, 03:55 PM

Another...

Incomplete schematics, schematics with no components values...:barf:

Esteban

02-11-2010, 03:56 PM

Another. Begining 80's too.

Esteban

02-11-2010, 03:57 PM

Incomplete schematics, schematics with no components values...:barf:

You're right, is for many skepticals that asure that doesn't exist. :nono:
:barf:

Esteban

02-11-2010, 03:59 PM

Yes, Esteban, this scheme can be very usable as mosquito killer.

I do not understand why you need to hide parts data in so simple and widely known schematic as scheme 2 in post #188?

Maybe you are embarrassed that someone would find out that you copied textbook case of NE555?

Don't copied of book, but book give always ideas.

Fred

02-11-2010, 04:13 PM

You're right, is for many skepticals that asure that doesn't exist. :nono:
:barf:

:???::nerd:

WM6

02-11-2010, 04:28 PM

You're right, is for many skepticals that asure that doesn't exist. :nono:

Esteban,

it is not about existing of schematic esentially, it is about working as claimed.

But if we talking obout existing: only complete schematic can be treated as existing schematic.

Incomplete schematics are non-existing, it is only block diagram, not schematic.

Esteban

02-11-2010, 04:55 PM

Esteban,

it is not about existing of schematic esentially, it is about working as claimed.

But if we talking obout existing: only complete schematic can be treated as existing schematic.

Incomplete schematics are non-existing, it is only block diagram, not schematic.

What claiming? No perfect schematic exist, in any field. 100s electronic LRL schematic exist.

Fred

02-11-2010, 05:19 PM

What claiming? No perfect schematic exist, in any field. 100s electronic LRL schematic exist.
Nobody talked about perfect schematic:just working schematic.And to work it must be complete.

Qiaozhi

02-11-2010, 08:34 PM

Of course, schematics exist, maybe hundreds or 1,000, but skeptical are more! :lol:
The problem (as I'm sure you're well aware) is there are no component values, coil details, or setting up procedure. Without these this information is useless, as far as replication is concerned.

Morgan

02-12-2010, 12:53 AM

Another. Begining 80's too.
Porque esta el coche todo abierto ???
Gripado el motor ?
Lo creo hace mucho calor en Paraguai:cool:

Morgan

02-12-2010, 01:01 AM

Nobody talked about perfect schematic:just working schematic.And to work it must be complete.

ThatÂ´s true,but if you build one of EstebanÂ´s LRL ,are you sure that it will work ? For this warantie(garantia) you should have some place with buried gold.
Here i have the perfect condition to test LRLÂ´s. Geo saw very well the PD at work near the gold medal .
Now i buried more gold and silver in other places for more tests,and i recomend the same for all the LRL entusiast.

J_Player

02-12-2010, 01:36 AM

Porque esta el coche todo abierto ???
Gripado el motor ?
Lo creo hace mucho calor en Paraguai:cool:Â¿Porque hace mucho calor en el foro?

Best wishes,
J_P

Fred

02-12-2010, 01:40 AM

ThatÂ´s true,but if you build one of EstebanÂ´s LRL ,are you sure that it will work ? For this warantie(garantia) you should have some place with buried gold.
No, necause i cannot build one of EstebanÂ´s LRL : he never gave a complete schematic.Of course i could guess the components values, but then i will never be sure it is correctly built.
I am beginning (:rolleyes:) to wonder if he really has a WORKING schematic...

Morgan

02-12-2010, 01:42 AM

Â¿Porque hace mucho calor en el foro?

Best wishes,
J_P
El foro ?! ,veo un circo, y mucho calor,si que ya esta pegando fuego con los LRLÂ´s ;)

Morgan

02-12-2010, 01:51 AM

No, necause i cannot build one of EstebanÂ´s LRL : he never gave a complete schematic.Of course i could guess the components values, but then i will never be sure it is correctly built.
I am beginning (:rolleyes:) to wonder if he really has a WORKING schematic...
So,we can meet again for new RS project with Esteban and make some discrimination about who should enteror not, and go for the last news about working LRL,iÂ´m open to give to serious LRL believers what i know,but as you can see some Esteban friends become agressive and skeptics,now the RS project,the final adjustments and revelation should be only for a reduced number of members.

Morgan

02-12-2010, 01:55 AM

So,we can meet again for new RS project with Esteban and make some discrimination about who should enteror not, and go for the last news about working LRL,iÂ´m open to give to serious LRL believers what i know,but as you can see some Esteban friends become agressive and skeptics,now the RS project,the final adjustments and revelation should be only for a reduced number of members.
I mean SELECTED MEMBERS for the RS PROJECT. To start this, a few should go out,its very boring the presence of people playing jokes,not let the other concentrate,and make Esteban reluctant to share precious information...

Fred

02-12-2010, 02:21 AM

We already made that, (a restricted group), and it was useless, except you nobody posted anything serious.

Geo

02-12-2010, 08:02 AM

I mean SELECTED MEMBERS for the RS PROJECT. To start this, a few should go out,its very boring the presence of people playing jokes,not let the other concentrate,and make Esteban reluctant to share precious information...

Hi Morgan.
I agree with your idea!!!, even if you get out me from the selected members. At least, some members to believe that PD works.

Regards:)

Geo

02-12-2010, 08:09 AM

Of course, schematics exist, maybe hundreds or 1,000, but skeptical are more! :lol:

Hi Esteban:).
Can you post and the other half schematic????
Also can you tell me what frequency is the xtal???

Regards

Geo

02-12-2010, 08:19 AM

See distance expected by BFO-radio pistol. Begining of the 80's.

On this schematic does the pistol receives via IR??

Regards:)

WM6

02-12-2010, 08:22 AM

At least, some members to believe that PD works.

:)

Hi Geo,

I dont understad why one should to convince LRL believers that PD works?

What purpose of such convincing convinced believers?

Maybe to find new buyers for mineoro crappy things?

Super promotional idea.

Astrodetect

02-12-2010, 09:36 AM

Hi all
My humble opinion is that if we decide to make another closed forum group, then it really must be secret and the members must not be SKEPTICS but believers and must NOT be reluctant to post schematics in there, knowledge must be distributed and carried on. It doesnt mean ANYTHING even if I have the best LRL schematics and all the knowledge, if I pass away without sharing this I will be nothing. But being able to share with others is the real pleasure for each person and the real happiness for each individual. As they say it is LONELY being at the top by yourself alone...
But on the other hand there must be trust between the members and no contructions for selling. I hope you understand what I mean.
Thanks

WM6

02-12-2010, 09:57 AM

I hope you understand what I mean.

Dear Astrodetect your hope is hopeless.

Geo

02-12-2010, 11:37 AM

Hi Geo,

I dont understad why one should to convince LRL believers that PD works?

What purpose of such convincing convinced believers?

Maybe to find new buyers for mineoro crappy things?

Super promotional idea.

Hi WM6.
I don't think that Esteban try to convince LRL believers that PD works.
Of course this is my opinion.

Regards

Geo

02-12-2010, 11:48 AM

Esteban

02-12-2010, 12:21 PM

The problem (as I'm sure you're well aware) is there are no component values, coil details, or setting up procedure. Without these this information is useless, as far as replication is concerned.

Remember? 2 or more said that I don't have any schematic. :razz:

Fred

02-12-2010, 12:24 PM

Hi Esteban:).
Can you post and the other half schematic????
Also can you tell me what frequency is the xtal???

Regards
NO! :razz:

Hi all
My humble opinion is that if we decide to make another closed forum group, then it really must be secret and the members must not be SKEPTICS but believers and must NOT be reluctant to post schematics in there,
This phrase ruins everything.Forget it.

Esteban

02-12-2010, 12:25 PM

Porque esta el coche todo abierto ???
Gripado el motor ?
Lo creo hace mucho calor en Paraguai:cool:

MuchÃ*simo calor ahora. Very hot now. This is page of a newspaper... :shocked: :shocked: COME TO THE HELL!

Astrodetect

02-12-2010, 01:20 PM

Yes Geo I agree with you.

Qiaozhi

02-12-2010, 01:24 PM

Remember? 2 or more said that I don't have any schematic. :razz:
I don't think there is any doubt that you do have LRL schematics. The real question is whether they really work as LRLs or not.

Only independent replication can find the answer. ;)

Qiaozhi

02-12-2010, 01:25 PM

MuchÃ*simo calor ahora. Very hot now. This is page of a newspaper... :shocked: :shocked: COME TO THE HELL!
43 degrees centigrade! ..... it's 5 degrees here! ... brrr!

Fred

02-12-2010, 02:08 PM

I don't think there is any doubt that you do have LRL schematics. The real question is whether they really work as LRLs or not.

Only independent replication can find the answer. ;)
Exactly.But sometime Esteban is an expert in forgetting words : when you write "working schematic" he just reads "schematic".
Maybe he is dyslexic...

Esteban

02-12-2010, 02:38 PM

Porque esta el coche todo abierto ???
Gripado el motor ?
Lo creo hace mucho calor en Paraguai:cool:

Left open the doors of the car because they only tested on the site. Then take the car and go somewhere else... Test from another point.

Esteban

02-12-2010, 02:40 PM

On this schematic does the pistol receives via IR??

Regards:)

No, this doesn't use IR.

Esteban

02-12-2010, 02:42 PM

We already made that, (a restricted group), and it was useless, except you nobody posted anything serious.

What! And the many details I provided? :lol:

Esteban

02-12-2010, 02:45 PM

Esteban

02-12-2010, 03:03 PM

Pistol made by a friend, engineer (not me). I'm only an "enthusiast". :lol: :lol:

Geo

02-12-2010, 03:21 PM

Pistol made by a friend, engineer (not me). I'm only an "enthusiast". :lol: :lol:

Hi Esteban.
This schematic don't work. I know it
Regards:)

Esteban

02-12-2010, 03:33 PM

Hi Esteban.
This schematic don't work. I know it
Regards:)

No tested by me...

Fred

02-12-2010, 03:47 PM

What! And the many details I provided? :lol:
Details yes but no complete (known to be working) project.
Happy because you're persistent in this attitude. Better for me! :razz:
Sometime donÂ´t understand what you mean.Sorry.

Pistol made by a friend, engineer (not me). I'm only an "enthusiast". :lol: :lol:
Mmmh...as soon as simples engineers are involved, LRL stops working.
We need to find an "enthusiastic engineer"...Geo, youÂ´re here ?

Geo

02-12-2010, 03:51 PM

We need to find an "enthusiastic engineer"...Geo, youÂ´re here ?

Yes.... :lol::lol:

Morgan

02-13-2010, 01:04 AM

Hi Morgan.
I agree with your idea!!!, even if you get out me from the selected members. At least, some members to believe that PD works.

Regards:)
Hi Geo

You should allways be present in the RS project as a LRL believer and witness of one working LRL,the ALONSO PISTOLDETECTOR.

Regards

Geo

02-13-2010, 07:49 AM

Hi Geo

You should allways be present in the RS project as a LRL believer and witness of one working LRL,the ALONSO PISTOLDETECTOR.

Regards

Hi Morgan.
OK, i will be present, but where:lol:???
I don't see enthousiastic believers ready to tell every secret about LRL:frown:

Regards

Esteban

02-13-2010, 01:07 PM

Details yes but no complete (known to be working) project.

Sometime donÂ´t understand what you mean.Sorry.

Mmmh...as soon as simples engineers are involved, LRL stops working.
We need to find an "enthusiastic engineer"...Geo, youÂ´re here ?

Simple, as you insist in this attitude, more reluctance every day.

Where it is? Of course, enthusiastic, more job, minus bla-bla.

Fred

02-13-2010, 01:30 PM

Simple, as you insist in this attitude, more reluctance every day.
ahh, blackmail ? :razz: doesnÂ´t work with me . If i think you donÂ´t give good info and i want to say it, i will. Nothing personal, and at least you cannot say i have two faces :D

Where it is? Of course, enthusiastic, more job, minus bla-bla.

Maybe your are right about that, but i have no more time for riddles and to work on hypothesis.
But for serious job i am here.And when i have results i share openly,unlike yourself ;)

Esteban

02-13-2010, 01:35 PM

ahh, blackmail ? :razz: doesnÂ´t work with me . If i think you donÂ´t give good info and i want to say it, i will. Nothing personal, and at least you cannot say i have two faces :D

Maybe your are right about that, but i have no more time for riddles and to work on hypothesis.
But for serious job i am here.And when i have results i share openly,unlike yourself ;)

No, waiting for more good time... If good time doesn't is possible, nothing will be possible... :razz:

Morgan

02-14-2010, 01:53 AM

Hi Morgan.
OK, i will be present, but where:lol:???
I don't see enthousiastic believers ready to tell every secret about LRL:frown:

Regards
We can put our schematics and ideias and Esteban give us more clues,this,he can do very well.
Personaly iÂ´m interested to build one LRL more powerful than the PD and not so boring in critical adjustments. I think its possible,i have my gold medalion and field test for LRL,i can try all this new devices and tell to forum what work fine ;)

Geo

02-14-2010, 06:55 AM

We can put our schematics and ideias and Esteban give us more clues,this,he can do very well.
Personaly iÂ´m interested to build one LRL more powerful than the PD and not so boring in critical adjustments. I think its possible,i have my gold medalion and field test for LRL,i can try all this new devices and tell to forum what work fine ;)

For me the problem is different.
I must make something that works at Greece and not at Portugal only.
Remember my electrostatic Pistol that don't work good at Greece but it is good at PORTUGAL.

Morgan

02-15-2010, 01:28 AM

For me the problem is different.
I must make something that works at Greece and not at Portugal only.
Remember my electrostatic Pistol that don't work good at Greece but it is good at PORTUGAL.

Yes,it seems to work here...

Fred

02-15-2010, 03:05 AM

An interesting work:Esteban, this may the first picture of the phenomenon :) :

11275

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNjnKQBUrNQ

Esteban

02-15-2010, 11:19 AM

hung

02-15-2010, 11:53 AM

"An interesting work:Esteban, this may the first picture of the phenomenon :) :

Attachment 11275 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11275)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNjnKQBUrNQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNjnKQBUrNQ)"

What is the red spot? I saw that the item was locating at high depth for to be noticeable by common MD.

Esteban, this is a software image probably made by a GPR type imaging device. The red spot covers the most conductive part (metal) which generally is in red. Nothing to do with the surface phenomena.
For the phenomena, you know very well that a camera with special IR filters do the job. I alwalys use it as a one more mean to confirm a possible target.

By the way, in march we will have a motor boat for 12 people at our disposal to hang around several islands in a beautiful litoral resort following some possible pirate treasures. In this 'tour' we will bring lots of LRLs and will be testing among others the new DCH85M and a modified Gold Gun.
We will have a tight schedule and it will be only for a few days including the weekend.
If you can go, just PM me and we will make arrangements.
Problem will be waking up early with our little kids after taking our wives to the dance clubs at night...:lol:
Regards.

Esteban

02-15-2010, 12:32 PM

Hi Hung

Thanks very much, but time is not my "friend" now. Good luck in your trip.

Esteban

Fred

02-15-2010, 02:33 PM

What is the red spot? I saw that the item was locating at high depth for to be noticeable by common MD.

Hung has shown his ignorance again.:D

This is a log made with resistivity and metal detector measurements, of an anomaly detected around a silver (natural) deposit.
You can find the originating page here: http://www.lrlman.com/ (http://www.lrlman.com/)
And a 30Mb pdf: http://www.lrlman.com/Pages/Private/Field_report_7302008.pdf
which is the same thing as the youtube video.
Of course like everything else you have to make you own judgement about it.

Tim Williams

02-16-2010, 01:23 AM

J_Player

02-16-2010, 02:20 AM

That plot was done with a Xl500 whites pulse and my Arc-Geo logger. The outer points marked target 1 & 2 were pinpoint marks of the ring surrounding the target area. They were looking for silver coins but found almost 1oz/ton raw silver. The used my LRL500 to locate the anomaly.

TimNice work Tim,
After reading the whole article, I can see your loggers hold the key to the future in this field. :)

.....

Hi Esteban,
I am reading that for the phenomena, you know very well that a camera with special IR filters do the job.
Is this true?
If it is true, can you tell about your experience using a camera with special IR filters to find the phenomenon?

Best wishes,
J_P

Geo

02-16-2010, 07:37 AM

Esteban, this is a software image probably made by a GPR type imaging device. The red spot covers the most conductive part (metal) which generally is in red. Nothing to do with the surface phenomena.
For the phenomena, you know very well that a camera with special IR filters do the job. I alwalys use it as a one more mean to confirm a possible target.

By the way, in march we will have a motor boat for 12 people at our disposal to hang around several islands in a beautiful litoral resort following some possible pirate treasures. In this 'tour' we will bring lots of LRLs and will be testing among others the new DCH85M and a modified Gold Gun.
We will have a tight schedule and it will be only for a few days including the weekend.
If you can go, just PM me and we will make arrangements.
Problem will be waking up early with our little kids after taking our wives to the dance clubs at night...:lol:
Regards.

Hi Hung.
What are you mean "New DCH85M"????
Did you bought a new DCH???

Regards

Geo

02-16-2010, 07:42 AM

Nice work Tim,
After reading the whole article, I can see your loggers hold the key to the future in this field. :)

.....

Hi Esteban,
I am reading that for the phenomena, you know very well that a camera with special IR filters do the job.
Is this true?
If it is true, can you tell about your experience using a camera with special IR filters to find the phenomenon?

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P.
I tried this phenomena twice with my videocamera, with a extra IR filter and the IR switch to ON.
No results.... but i want to make more tests
Regards

J_Player

02-16-2010, 08:17 AM

Hi J_P.
I tried this phenomena twice with my videocamera, with a extra IR filter and the IR switch to ON.
No results.... but i want to make more tests
RegardsHi Geo,
I have looked in Infrared cameras made for photographing very slight changes in IR radiation. These work fine for seeing things behind walls inside a building, and for finding where heat is leaking from a building. But when you take them outside, they don't show buried things unless they are right at the surface. They do show where shadows were a parked car moved from, and things that are hotter than surrounding things.

But I read that for the phenomenon, Esteban knows very well that a camera with special IR filters do the job. I am interested to see the photos Esteban took with special IR filters on his camera that show the phenomenon.

Maybe it is not true. I don't know.

Best wishes,
J_P