$60,000 Dowsing Rod to Iraq as Explosives Detector

[Theseus]

Warning!!!! One of the pictures you will be exposed to is rather disturbing. (But nothing you wouldn't see on the 10PM News)

http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2009/11/05/british-company-sells-60000-dowsing-rods-to-iraq-as-explosives-detectors/

I read this and found it extremely hard to believe. But it is TRUE! It is also very sad, but true.

"This is not just fraud, its culpable involvement in negligent homicide..."

"That’s what junk science does. Its not simply a bit of harmless new age hippy nonsense, as some suppose, it kills people and it does so unnecessarily and without any thought for the consequences.

This is one junk science fraud where action needs to be taken, and taken now before any more people die as a result of British companies selling dowsing rods as so-called explosives detectors."

[Infamy]

LRL needs closing down, end of storty.

[Qiaozhi]

Warning!!!! One of the pictures you will be exposed to is rather disturbing. (But nothing you wouldn't see on the 10PM News)

http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2009/11/05/british-company-sells-60000-dowsing-rods-to-iraq-as-explosives-detectors/

I read this and found it extremely hard to believe. But it is TRUE! It is also very sad, but true.

"This is not just fraud, its culpable involvement in negligent homicide..."

"That’s what junk science does. Its not simply a bit of harmless new age hippy nonsense, as some suppose, it kills people and it does so unnecessarily and without any thought for the consequences.

This is one junk science fraud where action needs to be taken, and taken now before any more people die as a result of British companies selling dowsing rods as so-called explosives detectors."
Very interesting ... and frightening.

Dowsing, ouija boards, table tipping, etc., can be harmless fun if performed in the right context, but knowingly selling fraudulent devices for explosive detection is a serious crime. :(

[Berti]

that's why there are so many soldiers killed :flag_us:

[Theseus]

that's why there are so many soldiers killed :flag_us:

It is my understanding that the Iraqi forces bought these things, and are trying to use them; with severe consequences. But the American General in charge of the US troops have warned them that what they are doing is pure foolishness, and will only result in more deaths.

It is really too bad this British company is taking advantage of the Iraqis like this, and apparently they are getting away with it. A small group of individuals are getting rich over this scam, while others are being killed and injured.

It's one thing to make these things in your garage, or basement, and take money from the Mike's and the Art's of this world; but it is quite another thing to sell them to people who are at risk of losing their lives while using these worthless contraptions. :nono: :(

[WM6]

A small group of individuals are getting rich over this scam, while others are being killed and injured.

It's one thing to make these things in your garage, or basement, and take money from the Mike's and the Art's of this world; but it is quite another thing to sell them to people who are at risk of losing their lives while using these worthless contraptions. :nono: :(



Maybe difference is not so much.

If Mike sell his last property to buy mineoro crappy box, to find Big Treasure and entry big Richiness, he is dead man, no matter still allive.

[Infamy]

It is really too bad this British company is taking advantage of the Iraqis like this, and apparently they are getting away with it. :nono: :(
Sniffex Made in the USA

Here is a suggestion.

Stage 1 write to the distributors of LRLs, those that also sell metal detectors and ask them to stop selling these devices. Give them a couple of weeks to reply then forward details of all current supplies of LRLs to all the detecting forums through out the world encourage people to boycott these companies. Impacting the bottom line soon changes thinking.

Stage 2 go public in newspapers radio television and put the manufactures out of business.

[Theseus]

Here is a related site you might find interesting, concerning this same scam.

http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/

[jojo]

biggest scam that even cause human life:nono:

[Fred]

:barf:

Both sellers and buyers are guilty.Spending such outrageous amounts of public money for device that have never been proven to work is a crime.
I don´t have any illusion about the issues of eventual criminal pursuits:A few hundred thousands dollars, some hookers or a new car in someone pocket will resolve the problem.

[J_Player]

:barf:

Both sellers and buyers are guilty.Spending such outrageous amounts of public money for device that have never been proven to work is a crime.
I don´t have any illusion about the issues of eventual criminal pursuits:A few hundred thousands dollars, some hookers or a new car in someone pocket will resolve the problem.Somehow, I think the sellers and the officials who did the buying were not the same people who were given these bomb detectors to use in the field. The officials who bought them can get rich too.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Diohuni]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxArxIgB9oA&feature=player_embedded

[kt315]

:angry:

[Qiaozhi]

Hi KT315,

I do not know where you've got the idea that Ivconic is an LRL scammer. :shocked:
Nothing could be further from the truth. Like many other members here, he has investigated whether LRLs really work or not, and concluded that they do not work. He is a skeptic not an LRL proponent. Perhaps you think that Carl is an LRL proponent because he has so many in his collection?

We all know who are the LRL believers here on Geotech ... and Ivconic is not one of them. :nono:

[kt315]

hi Qiaozhi,

why people ask me to give 'superior ionic type one'? is my name ivconic? or I am supporting Remote sensing? all people have to clearly be aware - here is NOT a place for frauds. believe me now - without the scam the forum will NOT die.

hi dear
I saw many of your posts in this forum.And I am convinced that your knowledge in the field of high metal detector.I need a powerful detector could thereby metal ions emitted from the remote tracking tips do please help me and give me a schematic to trace these ion.
Regards

[ivconic]

...

[kt315]

thanks for my appraisal to catch your fingers in a door.
you gota be Number #1 LRL scammer in Geotech history, my friend.
the sceptic LRL gold ionic modulation scammer is your name. Qiaozhi noticed right.
glory to people they speedy did find out the truth about you activity. honest folks from USA and the world have to remember who you are.
write me more about how ty dolgo duril chestnym liudiam golovy svoimi beztolkovymi durilkami i elektronnymi pustyshkami. ditia blin maloe... ne naigralsia eschio v etu svoiu huietu?

[Qiaozhi]

you gota be Number #1 LRL scammer in Geotech history, my friend.
the sceptic LRL gold ionic modulation scammer is your name. Qiaozhi noticed right.
Please explain why you think Ivconic is an LRL scammer. :???:
Nobody here seems to agree with you, so you must have a good reason for your conclusions.

[kt315]

Please explain why you think Ivconic is an LRL scammer. :???:
Nobody here seems to agree with you, so you must have a good reason for your conclusions.

then who is the core of attraction of LRL scam?
can you give me a post related LRL at these sites?
http://members5.boardhost.com/DetectorDeals/
http://members5.boardhost.com/MetalDetecting/index.html
http://thunting.com/smf/modifications_do_it_yourself_repairs-b176.0/

if you see an injuriousness in the world you drop 500 LBS JDAM at their heads. is it nice? nobody here seems to agree with you but you drop the bomb without my conclusions. so what are my conclusions for you?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=28f_1297870022

lol, absolutely awesome!! that's all I can say you, my friend.

[J_Player]

then who is the core of attraction of LRL scam?
can you give me a post related LRL at these sites?
http://members5.boardhost.com/DetectorDeals/
http://members5.boardhost.com/MetalDetecting/index.html
http://thunting.com/smf/modifications_do_it_yourself_repairs-b176.0/

if you see an injuriousness in the world you drop 500 LBS JDAM at their heads. is it nice? nobody here seems to agree with you but you drop the bomb without my conclusions. so what are my conclusions for you?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=28f_1297870022

lol, absolutely awesome!! that's all I can say you, my friend.Who is the core of attraction of the LRL forum?
I think it is kt315!
Yes, we need something to laugh at from time to time.
When a person fails to convince others of a doubtful proposition, yet continue on with their poorly though out logic, it can have a funny appearance.
But to be fair, let's give a serious answer to your pointless accusations:

1. ___________
You claim Ivconic is the 4th LRL scammer.
In fact Ivconic has not been posting in this forum for the past year or so. If you look at the number of posts in the remote sensing forum, you will see you made more posts than Ivconic did in the past year. And you will also see the fewer posts that Ivconic made do not promote LRLs. Does this make you the new #4 LRL scammer?
I don't think so. Just like it did not make Ivconic an LRL scammer.

But then let's look at the posts made by Ivconic... most of his posts were not made in the Remote Sensing forum. They were made in the Tech forum or other Geotech forums such as coils and TGS. Only a few of his posts were ever made in the Remote Sensing forum. If we take his 3387 posts and deduct the posts that were made in other Geotech forums, there would not be enough posts remaining to even get him a rating in the Remote Sensing forum. Sure he made a lot of posts when he was building VLF metal detectors, but only an idiot would conclude this proves he is a promoter of LRLs.

2.___________
Speaking of idiot logic..... what about the other members who show a lot of posts... Is Max the #1 LRL scam promoter because he made the most posts?
Or is it possible most of his posts were made in tech forum and metal detecting forums, not the remote sensing forum?

While you think about the answer to that question, why not take a look at the posts Max made in the remote sensing forum.... do you suppose you will find posts where he asks people to buy more LRLS?
Or do you think you will find posts that condemn LRLs as non-working BS circuits? You realize of course, Max has not posted in the Remote sensing forum for several years.

Oops... did I prove your conclusions are wrong?
Ohhh Nooooooo....! :shocked:


2A.___________
Let's look for another member to accuse of promoting LRLs, and maybe pin the blame on for bombing in distant countries too.... how about Qiaozhi?
Can he be the #2 LRL scam promoter because he made the second most posts?
Well let's take a look at where Qiaozhi posts....
It seems to me he posts all over Geotech... and Remote Sensing is only a small part of where he posts. So what does he post in Remote sensing?
I keep reading how he considers dowsing to be a "trick of the mind" and I read how he calls LRL stories fairy tales....
This sure doesn't sound like an LRL scam promoter to me...
I guess this example also proves your conclusions are wrong.

2B.___________
If we go down the list of members you posted, we will see that the only promoter of LRLs is Esteban, who does not advise people to buy any LRLs. He only talks about experimental circuits he built and things he found with his circuits. But then Esteban has not posted here this year.


2C.___________
While we're on our witch hunt to find someone to accuse of promoting LRLs, we can't help to notice Carl-NC is #8 on the list of most posts. But wait... He is owner of the forum, and the only person who has the power to banish the Remote Sensing forum. Does this prove he is also a promoter of LRL scams?
I wonder if most of his posts are in Remote Sensing, or if they are other places like some of the others I mentioned?
I wonder what he has to say about LRL scams... do you think he promotes them?

Hmmmm.... When you check out the evidence for what they post and where they post, it looks like the evidence does not prove that Ivconic or any of the other top rated posting members is an LRL scam promoter as you claimed.



3.___________
But the main idiotic lapse of logic is to depict people who make a lot of posts in Geotech forums with promoters of LRL scams and as people who cause bombings in distant countries. This is especially true when you make a statement that nobody here seems to agree with Qiaozhi.... "nobody here seems to agree with you but you drop the bomb without my conclusions...."

It seems you already had your chance to prove that metal detectorists and experimenters were responsible for foriegn wars and for promoting LRL scams. And we learned that almost nobody agreed with you in an open vote. We see both LRL enthusiasts and LRL non-believers voted that they want the Remote Sensing forum to continue as it is. The vote was 4 to 1 against making any changes to the remote sensing forum.
It appears that most people agreed with Qiaozhi.
The evidence does not show that nobody agrees with him, as you stated.

So what does it all mean?
You lost at your attempt to banish the Geotech Remote Sensing forum, so you return now and make idiotic accusations against someone who no longer posts here.
Read the response that you received after your first attempt to banish the Remote Sensing forum... http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16742
And then you make another idiotic accusation that is obviously wrong against Qiaozhi.
And you want people to believe that an absentee forum member who argues against LRLs is responsible for LRL scams?

I think Ivconic was right... "complete idiot".

Best wishes,
J_P

[Rudy]

:shocked::shocked::shocked:

[Geo]

Although my relationship with Ivconic is not the best, I can assure that he has no connection with the lrl scammers, on the contrary.

Regards:)

[Qiaozhi]

then who is the core of attraction of LRL scam?
can you give me a post related LRL at these sites?
http://members5.boardhost.com/DetectorDeals/
http://members5.boardhost.com/MetalDetecting/index.html
http://thunting.com/smf/modifications_do_it_yourself_repairs-b176.0/
Hi KT315,

I do not know why you have a personal vendetta against Ivconic, but nothing in your reply points to him being an LRL scammer.
If we look at the sites you have listed:

http://members5.boardhost.com/DetectorDeals/
This site is dedicated to discussing metal detectors manufactured by Discovery Electronics Inc. Therefore it is highly unlikely to contain any reference to LRLs. This is like comparing apples to oranges.

http://members5.boardhost.com/MetalDetecting/index.html
On this site there are discussions about LRLs. See here, for instance -> http://members5.boardhost.com/MetalDetecting/msg/1297832681.html

http://thunting.com/smf/modifications_do_it_yourself_repairs-b176.0/
And the same for this site, which has an active forum on LRLs here -> http://www.thunting.com/smf/black_box_technologies-b21.0/
and another on dowsing here -> http://www.thunting.com/smf/dowsing-b20.0/

Also, none of these site have any link to Ivconic.

Please try to follow Geo's example, and forgive and forget. ;)

[kt315]

(http://members5.boardhost.com/MetalDetecting/index.html)http://members5.boardhost.com/MetalDetecting/index.html
On this site there are discussions about LRLs. See here, for instance -> (http://members5.boardhost.com/MetalDetecting/index.html)http://members5.boardhost.com/MetalD...297832681.html (http://members5.boardhost.com/MetalDetecting/msg/1297832681.html)

(http://members5.boardhost.com/MetalDetecting/index.html)

thanks for your work. by your favour I take these comments from your link.

Bjorn - Not very different from NOKTA. Same sh!t different name. Buy a regular detector instead and avoid the dealers that even have these on their pages too. Only way to fight these manufacturers.

Tom_in_CA, in cool sarcasm manner, - Wow, it says it can tell the different types of metal apart, (gold, silver, etc...). Thus I can effortlessly go to blighted junky urban parks, and pass tabs and foil all day long, and *only* dig the gold rings that all you poor loosers have been passing up all these years. Wow, this is going to be great! I've been waiting for the machine that could finally tell aluminum from gold, and now it's here! http://images.boardhost.com/emoticons/shocked.gif

John=Edmonton, in hard sarcasm manner, -They Are The Leaders In The LRL Industry

[Diohuni]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/02/17/uk-iraq-britain-explosives-idUKTRE71G3H120110217

[kt315]

Iraq police official charged in bomb device scandal
By Suadad al-Salhy
BAGHDAD | Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:38pm GMT

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqi authorities have arrested a high-ranking police official in connection with the purchase of a bomb detector that the British government says does not work, officials said on Thursday.
Iraq spent about 75 million pounds on the devices, which are widely used by police and soldiers at security checkpoints and were meant to be a key defence against insurgents.
A series of blasts that killed hundreds in recent years had Iraqis questioning how militants got trucks, buses and cars packed with explosives through Baghdad's numerous checkpoints.
The government began investigations after reports the ADE651 bomb detection devices purchased from a British-based company were practically useless.
"Major General Jihad al-Jabiri, the commander of the bomb squad, was arrested five days ago," a senior police official close to the investigation told Reuters. "There are documents and incriminating evidence in the explosives detector case."
An Iraq Supreme Judicial Council official confirmed Jabiri's arrest on corruption charges but declined to provide details.
The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills announced in January 2010 it would ban exports to Iraq and Afghanistan of the ADE651 device. It is shaped like a pistol and features a swivelling antenna meant to point at explosives.
Iraqi lawmakers demanded security forces stop using them and that the government try to get its money back.
But some Iraqi officials have defended them, saying they have detected many bombs and munitions stockpiles.
Investigation revealed that Jabiri recommended that Iraq sign five contracts to supply security forces with the detectors for between 23,548.37 pounds and 34,702.86 pounds each even though the real cost of the devices is no more than 61.97 pounds, the senior official said.
The first contract, valued at about 11 million pounds, was signed in January 2007 and will be the first case taken to court, the official said.
"This is one of many cases that Jabiri is linked to regarding the same issue," the official said.
The inspector general of the Interior Ministry, which controls the police, said he investigated the detectors two years ago and found them "inoperative" and costly. He recommended that Iraq should not buy the devices.
(Writing by Suadad al-Salhy; Editing by Jim Loney/Maria Golovnina)

[Carl-NC]

KT, please drop your accusations against Ivconic... I see no evidence that he has anything but contempt for LRLs. Further accusations will be deleted and you will risk a "cooling off" vacation from Geotech.

You've made perfectly clear that you oppose any discussions of LRLs on Geotech. For now they stay, so ignore this part of the forums and move on with discussions of real technology.

- Carl

[Geo]

KT, please drop your accusations against Ivconic... I see no evidence that he has anything but contempt for LRLs. Further accusations will be deleted and you will risk a "cooling off" vacation from Geotech.

You've made perfectly clear that you oppose any discussions of LRLs on Geotech. For now they stay, so ignore this part of the forums and move on with discussions of real technology.

- Carl


Thank you Carl that allows for the continuation of this forum:lol:

Regards:)

[Diohuni]

Dear Sir,

I received your email, copied below, about H3Tec’s statements about receipt of a Utah Innovation Award. H3Tec has not been a winner of a Utah Innovation Award. I will contact the company shortly to ask that they correct the references on their website.

Thank you for your assistance in this matter.

Best regards,
Loren

Loren R. Hulse | Partner
STOEL RIVES LLP | 201 S. Main St., Suite 1100 | Salt Lake City, UT 84111-4904
Direct: (801) 578-6978 | Fax: (801) 578-6999

[Qiaozhi]

Dear Sir,

I received your email, copied below, about H3Tec’s statements about receipt of a Utah Innovation Award. H3Tec has not been a winner of a Utah Innovation Award. I will contact the company shortly to ask that they correct the references on their website.

Thank you for your assistance in this matter.

Best regards,
Loren

Loren R. Hulse | Partner
STOEL RIVES LLP| 201 S. Main St., Suite 1100 | Salt Lake City, UT 84111-4904
Direct: (801) 578-6978 | Fax: (801) 578-6999
Very interesting ... but I wonder where this came from then? ->
.
.

[Diohuni]

Like the stories of military deployment perhaps!

Even if any of their awards are legit, none of them prove the damn thing works! Just based on demos I expect. East to fool people with a demo, but not a proper double blind. Funny, they don't have any of those!!

[Qiaozhi]

OK - I think I see the problem.

Have a look here -> http://www.stoel.com/showrelease.aspx?Show=2401
You will see that H3tec are not listed as winners of the Utah Innovation award, but it appears they may have been in the list of finalists. In fact, on the H3tec website it does actually state "Stoel Rives/Utah Technology councel Innovation Award finalist" and not "winner".
However, they are promoting it as if they did win, by also stating "Utah Best of State 2007".
Those damn marketing guys! :shocked:

[Qiaozhi]

:lol: ... and I've just noticed that they spelled "council" incorrectly. :lol:

[Qiaozhi]

H3tec also claim to have received an IQ award in 2008, but I don't see that here either ->
http://www.siliconslopes.com/news/digital-iq-awards#2008

[Carl-NC]

In fact, on the H3tec website it does actually state "Stoel Rives/Utah Technology councel Innovation Award finalist" and not "winner".

You have to pay attention to what they used to say:

[Qiaozhi]

You have to pay attention to what they used to say:
So it appears they've recently updated their website to correct the error?

[Carl-NC]

So it appears they've recently updated their website to correct the error?

Yes, except they left the "error" on another web page, below. Also note the fine photo of Chuckie and Kathy holding those artifacts, with no mention that the artifacts were found with an H3. That was not an oversight.

[Rudy]

Is the Utah District Attorney so busy prosecuting other matters that he has no time to put these bums out of business?

[J_Player]

Is the Utah District Attorney so busy prosecuting other matters that he has no time to put these bums out of business?Hi Rudy,
After watching the events involving previous magic wand detectors being sold as military bomb detectors, I have concluded there is no time shortage problem for the Utah judicial department to prosecute K3Tec. It appears to me the Utah Justice Department has decided not to prosecute H3Tec for political reasons that are driven by money.

Some government departments like scams
If we look at what happened with the ADE–651, GT-200, Sniffex, and others magic wand bomb detectors, we see they were all sold for a long time before any government action was taken to stop the sellers. Of course, we expect it takes some time for the wheels of justice to come up to speed in these matters. But look at what happened with the ADE-651. The producer of this fake detector was permitted amass a huge fortune before he was finally arrested and the product was partially banned.

Why did this happen?
Was it just an unfortunate oversight in the British legal system?
Why did it take an expose from BBC Newsnight to open the eyes of ordinary people who subsequently demanded something should be done?

Government helps promote scam bomb detectors
Further reading shows the British government was actually helping to promote this fake bomb detector before the demands to ban it threatened to expose their participation. See this BBC Newsnight article titled "UK Government promoted useless bomb detectors" : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/9377875.stm

"... the UK government told BBC Newsnight that between 2001 and 2004 a Royal Engineers sales team went around the world demonstrating the GT200, another of the "magic wand" detectors which has been banned for export to Iraq and Afghanistan, at arms fairs around the world even though the British Army did not consider them suitable for its own use.

The government's Department of Trade and Industry, which has since been superseded by the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, helped two of the manufacturers sell their products in Mexico and the Philippines".

...And they report fake bomb detectors are still being sold all over the world: "At least four rival manufacturers have sold their own versions of these devices and they are now the subject of a major fraud investigation by the City of London police.

... The manufacturer of another of the devices, the Alpha 6, has admitted to Newsnight that they make them for £11 and then they are sold for £15,000 each to the end user".

Why would the government help sell fake bomb detectors?
Let's take a step back and look at the money trail...
Forget about who's wallets are getting greased. At a higher level, a decision was made to get the government involved in selling these devices.
The idea was to promote business in a difficult economy. This helps the government by improving their tax revenues.
So what if people die in the process... it wouldn't happen in their country.
Fortunately, the British people didn't feel that way once they found out what was going on.
We have people such as the reporters at BBC Newsnight to thank that something was finally done.
Yet we see there are still similar dowsing rod bomb detectors being demonstrated and sold from the UK.
What happened?
Did some government officials discover people stopped watching so closely since the recent arrest and banning of fake detectors?

But what about H3Tec?
They don't sell bomb detectors to the military.
... or do they?

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12054&stc=1&d=1273398466

Charles Christenson (CEO of H3Tec) is listed in the Cambridge Who's Who, which shows the highlights of his career: "The highlights of his career included being a part of the development team for the PAM II D Apogee Kick Motor, being involved in the deployment of the first H3 element detector in the Middle East to protect the Armed Forces, drilling his first oil well with success, starting a large gold mining prospect based on the H3 subsurface mapping system, and discovering his first Spanish galleon". But people say that is a fake photo and fake propaganda made by H3Tec to fool people into thinking the military uses their fake detectors. The only real evidence I have read shows they are selling their junk to treasure hunters.

So why doesn't the Utah Attorney General stop H3Tec?
Is the State of Utah also trying to promote local business?
Maybe they figure these fake detectors are only being sold to treasure hunters, so nobody will be hurt except some deluded treasure hunters. Maybe they figure the sales of H3Tec "Treasure Tricorders" will help to protect treasures in the state of Utah by frustrating treasure hunters and making them poor, while improving tax revenues.
Or maybe they figure most of the H3Tec products will be exported to other places and will bring money in from outside the state.

Maybe H3Tec is not big enough for the Utah Attorney General.
Maybe the Weber County District Attorney would care. Or maybe the Ogden City Attorney?
They all have jurisdiction, but the local City and County Attorneys have a bigger stake in local profiteering.
Is this why nobody in Utah wants to prosecute them? :nono:

If the H3Tec scam is good for business, then the Utah government will help them promote this scam...
Utah has the same idea as the UK for promoting business.
Instead of a Department of Business Innovation and Skills, Utah has a Governor’s Office of Economic Development (GOED) which promotes H3Tec.
Who cares if the company is selling fake detectors...
they are bringing money into the state.
Take a look at how the Utah Governor's office describes H3Tec... http://www.utahpulse.com/featured_article/utah-procurement-spotlights-h3-tec

It makes me wonder --- has nobody complained?
I suppose we made a lot of noise here in Geotech.
And we can read other complaints here: http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/859-received-from-a-thai-correspondent.html
And here: http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/search?q=h3tec
And here: http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7501919888/m/1771942899?r=64519144001
And here: http://ade651gt200scamfraud.blogspot.com/2011/03/message-to-chucky-at-h3tec.html
And here: http://explosivedetectorfrauds.blogspot.com/
And here: http://gpex.ca/smf/index.php?topic=2663.10
And here: http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/army-security-forces/fake-explosives-detectors-11030/
And here: http://www.defenceiq.com/questions/-0-/
And here: http://www.psaxtiria.net/forum/showthread.php?p=52686
And here: http://www.thunting.com/smf/black_box_technologies/h3tec_fraud-t21701.0.html
And here: http://exijamosloimposible.blogspot.com/2010/05/este-pendejo-aparato-no-sirve-para-nada.html
And here: http://lius4u5.deviantart.com/art/Detector-Molecular-GT-200-163395799
And a lot more websites...

What does it take to get the Justice Department involved in Utah?
The government will not stop the scam until someone points the finger at them as promoters of the scam!
The most influential persons behind the scenes at this time are Randi, Carl-NC, and diohuni, who have actually taken steps to put a stop to the H3Tec and other fake bomb detectors. Congratulations to Carl, and especially to diohuni who has contacted State Authorities in Utah, FBI, DOD, Utah media, and any related business contacts e.g. awards they claim, sponsors of those awards, associates of H3Tec and the Christensens to try to put a stop to this fake detector fraud.
And lets not forget to point our fingers at forum members such as hung and Art3811 who promoted this trash while we put out the word that it is a fraud.
Maybe some media coverage is needed to make H3Tec as famous as the ADE-651 fake detectors.


Will the State of Utah continue to pretend this is another fine product they are promoting in their state?
Or will they wait until they are exposed to the world as promoters of fake detectors that don't work?


Best wishes,
J_P

[Rudy]

JP, Thanks for your well thought out and beautifully researched answer.

I do hope that Carl et al are able to light a fire under some bureaucrat and get them moving.

On my part, I made inquiries with a friend that retired from the DoD and who was involved in procurements and contracts. So far, he has been unable to find anyone who participated in procuring any H3Tec for the US Army. I believe that story is horse pucky.

[coae]

I have found over the internet the ATSC LTD (http://www.atscltd.com) website. Which is an explosives detector.
What do you think about that?

[WM6]

I have found over the internet the ATSC LTD (http://www.atscltd.com) website. Which is an explosives detector.
What do you think about that?



Buy one and go de-mining with it - You will become rich man (probably without legs but this is not ATSC concern).

[Geo]

I fear that you are a hypocrites:angry:.
You have problem with the failure of H3 and completely ignores the bombing of Libya.
Yesterday was Yugoslavia, now Libya, Greece tomorrow, the next day Turkey, etc
And your problem will be always the H3 or the dowsing method!!!!
What to say?????:(:(:(

[J_Player]

I have found over the internet the ATSC LTD (http://www.atscltd.com) website. Which is an explosives detector.
What do you think about that?ATSC is the company headed by Jim McCormick who produces the ADE 651 fake bomb detector. This is the same Jim McCormick who was arrested and the ADE 651 was banned from being exported from the UK to Iraq or Afghanistan.

Apparently there is no law which prohibits advertising the ADE651 on a web page, as long as none of them are exported from the UK to Iraq or Afghanistan. If you read the web page link to contact them, you will see they do not say where they are located. I suspect they relocated their business office and shipping department outside the UK. This would keep them free of the prohibition to export these fake bomb detectors from the UK.

There are also several other counties which placed bans on importing the ADE651 to their country after seeing them fail to detect explosives.
But it appears there are not many restrictions which stop this company from producing and selling the ADE651.
The biggest deterrent in their path is the general knowledge people have from watching news coverage which shows that they are fake detectors.

You can look at the wikipedia page to learn the basic facts and events that followed the ATSC company, Jim McCormick and the ADE651 here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_651
You will read how many explosives and military experts all over the world refused to allow the ADE651 to be used in their country, and how several tests showed explosives could easily get past the guards using the ADE651.
You will also read about the news coverage which helped to spread the word to the general public that these dowsing rods do not work to keep them safe from explosives.

You will see at the bottom of that page, they list several similar devices being marketed in various countries, which include:
HEDD1 (formerly known as Sniffex Plus), marketed by Unival in Germany
Alpha 6, marketed by ComsTrac in the UK
PSD-22
and H3Tec.

What I think about this is the same as what I thought about it when I answered Rudy's post above.
Government justice departments are not very anxious to stop the producers of the ADE651 or other similar products.
Why?
Because the the places where these fake detectors are sold from are seeing profits which improve thier tax revenues.
And officials who buy them for their country receive substantial bribes which improve their personal estate.
You can read in the Wikipedia page how Iraq officials are currently investigating corruption surrounding the sale of ADE651 fake bomb detectors to their military.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

I have found over the internet the ATSC LTD (http://www.atscltd.com) website. Which is an explosives detector.
What do you think about that?
If you type "ATSC" into the search function on Geotech, you will see that it has been discussed here many times already.

[J_Player]

I fear that you are a hypocrites:angry:.
You have problem with the failure of H3 and completely ignores the bombing of Libya.
Yesterday was Yugoslavia, now Libya, Greece tomorrow, the next day Turkey, etc
And your problem will be always the H3 or the dowsing method!!!!
What to say?????:(:(:(Hi Geo,
You are wrong.
There is nothing wrong with the dowsing method as long as you are using it for your own personal use.
But when you force others to make their life depend on someone else's dowsing, then it is absolutely wrong.

Suppose I told you I can dowse because you convinced me I can. Then I told you I dowsed, and I used both an H3Tec and an ADE651 to make sure the mine field has no mines in it.
Would it be ok if you are now forced to plow the minefield and plant vegetables there?
All scientific testing on dowsing shows it cannot be relied on to protect people's lives from bombs.
Electronic bomb detectors are supposed to detect bombs. And these ones do not.

The sale of fake electronic bomb detectors has nothing to do with the fact that there are more bombings as time goes on.
We are a metal detecting forum that focuses on locating metals and other substances, not a forum that specializes in political activity to stop bombings.
This is why we continue to be focused on the problems of fake bomb detectors -- not the problems of world politics.

Best wishes,
J_P

[kt315]

This is why we continue to be focused on the problems of fake bomb detectors -- not the problems of world politics.

seems a problem of fake bomb detectors is big brother bombs countries not having atomic bombs. then big brother offers them to buy the bomb detectors and gets big money. this $$$ monster deeply needs in blood and money. politics here on every step, my friend. this site is politic. this forum is politic. EVERY forum is politic. so you are not right, misleaded or simply shamed by idiot.

[J_Player]

This is why we continue to be focused on the problems of fake bomb detectors -- not the problems of world politics.

seems a problem of fake bomb detectors is big brother bombs countries not having atomic bombs. then big brother offers them to buy the bomb detectors and gets big money. this $$$ monster deeply needs in blood and money. politics here on every step, my friend. this site is politic. this forum is politic. EVERY forum is politic. so you are not right, misleaded or simply shamed by idiot.I have only seen two or three people posting in this forum who would like to change it to a forum of world politics. It appears you are one of these people. The majority of people who come to post at geotech are more interested in discussing geotechnical things and do not want to convert this to a forum dedicated to world politics and censorship. You can read here to see what happened to your last attempt to make it a political forum and censor what is permitted in the Geotech forums: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16742

Do you really believe there are more than a two or three people besides you who want to change this forum to ban all discussions of long range locators, and only allow discussions that promote your view of world politics instead?

You could scroll up and read Carl's warning to you: You've made perfectly clear that you oppose any discussions of LRLs on Geotech. For now they stay, so ignore this part of the forums and move on with discussions of real technology.

- Carl


Best wishes,
J_P

[kt315]

last attempt to make it a political forum

trollizm. sounds you are clear un-political troll.

[Rudy]

I have found over the internet the ATSC LTD (http://www.atscltd.com) website. Which is an explosives detector.
What do you think about that?

Why are you going around to all the metal detecting forums posting the identical message?
Are you a troll?

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
You are wrong.
There is nothing wrong with the dowsing method as long as you are using it for your own personal use.
But when you force others to make their life depend on someone else's dowsing, then it is absolutely wrong.

Suppose I told you I can dowse because you convinced me I can. Then I told you I dowsed, and I used both an H3Tec and an ADE651 to make sure the mine field has no mines in it.
Would it be ok if you are now forced to plow the minefield and plant vegetables there?
All scientific testing on dowsing shows it cannot be relied on to protect people's lives from bombs.
Electronic bomb detectors are supposed to detect bombs. And these ones do not.


Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P
Probably you not understand what I mean.
As the H3 is not established that protects the lives of the bombs, so and the U.S. government does not protect the lives of people of many states, in opposite kill people by throwing bombs. But I see no complaints ......
That is why I talked about hypocrisy

Regards:)

[J_Player]

Hi J_P
Probably you not understand what I mean.
As the H3 is not established that protects the lives of the bombs, so and the U.S. government does not protect the lives of people of many states, in opposite kill people by throwing bombs. But I see no complaints ......
That is why I talked about hypocrisy

Regards:)Hi Geo,
H3Tec is not selling their locators to be used as bomb detectors in the USA, so they are not being used to try to stop people from throwing bombs.
The USA has an organization called Homeland Security which investigates threats of people who might throw bombs, and they use real bomb detectors and real metal detectors that are proven to work.
They do not use H3Tec to find bombs.

From what I have read, H3Tec is not selling their bomb detectors to any other country either.
What I read tells me the propaganda we read to say they are being used in the military are lies.
From what I can see they are only telling false stories to say their locators are being used by military in the USA and other countries.
Maybe they sent some samples of their locators for people to try, but I don't think anyone is using them after they tried them out and saw that they do not work to locate bombs.
I have read no reports of any country using them except for some lies that H3Tec put on their web page.

At this time, the Utah government is allowing H3Tec to defraud people by selling then fake treasure detectors.
They have not yet failed to protect peoples lives from fake H3Tec bomb detectors because H3Tec has never sold any fake bomb detectors yet.
When they begin to sell thier locators for bomb detecting, then the FBI will have a case to pursue because of the sale of fraudulent bomb detectors across state lines.
At the present time, the State of Utah, the District Attorney for Weber County, and the attorney for the City of Ogden are failing to stop them from defrauding treasure hunters.
It seems to me the Utah government is acting the same as the UK government did for the ADE651.
They are helping to sell it.
The only difference is the H3Tec is not being used as a bomb detector.

As experts in electronics and metal detecting, we can make our forum posts to warn people about the fake electronics in the H3Tec.
These warnings help to stop J3Tec from selling their locators by informing people of the facts.
If you search with google for H3Tec fraud, you will find a lot of information from Geotech, Thunting, and Tnet.
Anyone who wants to know the facts from people who understand the electronics will read what Geotech says, because they know there are people with electronic knowledge here.
Even other websites and blogs link thier readers to Geotech to learn the facts about the fake bomb detectors.
Readers are able to come here and read how it is a grounded dowsing rod with no electronic signal attached to energize isotopes for 10 miles.
And they can read how the owner of H3Tec lied about nearly all the claims he made for his locator.

Any involvement with the government agencies is something that concerned forum members do their our own outside the scope of the Geotech forum like Diohuni and Carl do.
The most we will hear about it is their reports and updates in the forums, because this forum is only a technical forum for the equipment, not a political activist forum.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[Geo]

Hi J_P.
You don't like to understand me:(.
I know about H3Tec.... I meant other things.
Ι stop here this discussion because it sees that i writes others but you answer other things. I also know that it is a technical forum and not a politician. I have no problem if the method H3Tec works or not, but I have problem when kill people from poor functioning thereof, but also I have more trouble when people are killed, not by a malfunction of H3Tec but by the deliberate dropping bombs.

Regards:)

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
You don't like to understand me:(.
I know about H3Tec.... I meant other things.
Ι stop here this discussion because it sees that i writes others but you answer other things. I also know that it is a technical forum and not a politician. I have no problem if the method H3Tec works or not, but I have problem when kill people from poor functioning thereof, but also I have more trouble when people are killed, not by a malfunction of H3Tec but by the deliberate dropping bombs.

Regards:)Hi Geo,

You have missed my answer in two places:

1. You say you have a problem when H3Tec is killing people from the poor functioning to detect bombs.
But you should not have a problem from H3Tec killing people because it is not used to detect bombs.
H3Tec has not been used for bomb detectors where people are killed from its poor functioning. This is a lie that was published on the H3Tec website.
H3Tec is not one of these companies. They only pretend to be used by the military for bomb detection.
The problem with H3Tec is not from it killing people.
The problem with H3Tec is they take people's money without delivering a machine that will find treasure.
The problem is fraud that results in making people poor, not fraud that kills people.
There are other companies who sell fake bomb detectors that cause people to be killed.
But not H3Tec.

2. Most people here also have problems about deliberate dropping of bombs that you are not reading about.
But they do not think they are a hipocrite for discussing fake bomb detectors here, because this is a forum for the technical aspects of the locators where they are expected to be concerned when they see fake detectors.
The people here who are concerned about people being killed from nonfunctioning bomb detectors are taking their actions to stop this condition to places outside this forum where you usually don't read about what they are doing or saying. This does not mean anyone here is a hipocrite. It only means they usually keep their actions to stop deliberate dropping of bombs and to stop sales of fake bomb detectors outside of this forum. You don't really think you are the only person in Geotech who is more concerned about deliberate dropping of bombs than they are concerned about detector circuitry, do you?

Best wishes, :)
J_P