Bionic 01 Video

[hung]

One of these was used along with the FG80 by a friend and his partner to recover gold in a remote region in Brazil. He told me that tough the Bionic 01 had more range and was the first device to detect the target, it used to employ an old and awkward method of triangulation to determine the exact target's location, and for this reason the FG80 was the one device used to pinpoint it.
I believe the one featured in the video is the upgraded model featuring a laser as pinpointer and sensor directivity, something the earlier model did not have.

For those unfamiliar with this device, a ground and surface balance procedure signal input is required to be performed in order to set software and processor filtering.

Now I wonder, after watching videos of similar LRLs in action how many of you still feel like employing the insane method of sweeping a football stadium size field with a broom type standard MD toy?:lol:

You can watch the videos here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFytDiy-zPg

And here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhj2pbhOxoQ

[Jim]

Now I wonder, after watching videos of similar LRLs in action how many of you still feel like employing the insane method of sweeping a football stadium size field with a broom type standard MD toy?:lol:



After viewing the video, I would much rather sweep a football stadium sized field with an 8" coil than the dot size of a laser beam. This gimmick would take days and days to accomplish that task.

Oh yeah, the Bionic still uses pseudoscience babble


This gold detector includes two individual searching systems:


Bio-energy system (bionic mode)
Ionization system (ionic mode)


The bio-energy system interacts with the bio energy of your own body during the localization of gold and silver objects to observe minimum changes of object substances. Thereby the gold detector Bionic 01 is able to locate almost all metallic objects whereas the ionization system is a method to measure the ions radiation (ions absorbance). Therefore a metal-ion reaction chamber is integrated in the Bionic 01.
The bio-energy system is able to locate also fresh buried or not buried objects no matter which age they are. The ionic system is mainly used to find buried artefacts.

[hung]

After viewing the video, I would much rather sweep a football stadium sized field with an 8" coil than the dot size of a laser beam.

Hey dude, the laser is just the pinpointer modulated according to the reception frequency and not the detector itself.


Oh yeah, the Bionic still uses pseudoscience babble

If you mean this term is used to explain some technical data beyond your own knowledge, I tend to agree.
But if you keep on learning from the LRL guys in TNET, you will pass this stage eventually.

[Tim Williams]

Tell you what. I would like to see the calibration and then move the gold and see if the unit still picks it up. The reason I ask is it is possible that the unit has an internal 3 axis mag and is only triggering on the stored position.

So after you beep on the shelf with the gold ring move it to another place and see what the unit does.

By the way Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all here in geotech.

[Jim]

Tell you what. I would like to see the calibration and then move the gold and see if the unit still picks it up. The reason I ask is it is possible that the unit has an internal 3 axis mag and is only triggering on the stored position.

So after you beep on the shelf with the gold ring move it to another place and see what the unit does.

By the way Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all here in geotech.

That's the ticket :thumb:

[Qiaozhi]

I think the most amazing thing about the videos is how the guy manages to keep a straight face during the whole test. :lol:

This is just more pseudo-scientific gobbledygook. Complete rubbish. :razz:

[Theseus]

I think the most amazing thing about the videos is how the guy manages to keep a straight face during the whole test. :lol:

This is just more pseudo-scientific gobbledygook. Complete rubbish. :razz:

Still, there will be a small percentage of folks who will be completely taken in by the whole ruse. Hung The Debunker for one. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[hung]

Good grief...
That's why all the serious LRL discussions now have moved to the TNET forum.
Here, only a few among the comedy and the notorious comedians were left...

Sometimes just to relax a little I might show up just to join the fun with you people.
May 2010 be a funny year as always here in geoskepthic forums...:D

[Jim]

Good grief...
That's why all the serious LRL discussions now have moved to the TNET forum.
Here, only a few among the comedy and the notorious comedians were left...

Sometimes just to relax a little I might show up just to join the fun with you people.
May 2010 be a funny year as always here in geoskepthic forums...:D

Serious LRL discussion on TNET?

Surely you jest! (no...and don't ever call me Shirley again)

Hung...its the same cast of characters and same ole hoopla over there, as it is here. The same LRL manufactures swapping insults with skeptics

[hung]

Hey Jim, catfights between LRLers and skeptics are normal in every forum.
But in TNET, skeptics are more polite and are able to carry on a discussion with minimum logic, even when the LRL guys make them 'face the truth', what happens almost all the time by the way...:D
And you have to admit there are many experienced LRL users there. That's great.

But here in this forum, there's no discussion at all. Skepthics here are like the mambo boys who think they know how to dance that song without not even knowing which song or what rythm that is.:lol:

But come one, that's fair enough! What would you expect from a RS forum in Carl Skeptmoreland site??

Skepthics here are like: 'Hey there's this new LRL I would li...'
And even before the sentence is written they go... 'It's a scam!Rubbish!Gobbleydok(I like that one)! and etc. and etc.

So it's better to discuss there and come here to laugh a little, don't you think?8)

[Carl-NC]

I agree with Tim... the guy only moves the device up & down, never side-to-side. This would be really easy to fake. But it's probably enough of a demo to convince some people to buy one.

[Jim]

So it's better to discuss there and come here to laugh a little, don't you think?8)



No.

[hung]

I agree with Tim... the guy only moves the device up & down, never side-to-side.

There's no problem to move it sideways at all. But if he did, I imagine you would come up with another bazooki.

This would be really easy to fake. But it's probably enough of a demo to convince some people to buy one.

Yes. It convinced my friend's partner and they found gold with it.
But he is a thunther who goes out in the field. Not the armchair, indoor electric fence tester typo.

See Jim, what I mean by mambo boys?:lol:

[Tim Williams]

Hung I'm not saying it does not work. I'm only saying one way to do the same thing I see in the video. I'm all for the work you and hung are doing. But it is hard to tell anything except at a certain position the lights flash and the bells sound. I have asked hung and other to share info so I can test here in the states and give feedback to the source. But no takers.

[WM6]

Hung I'm not saying it does not work.



Hi Tim.

You can be free to say "it does not work".
It is about cheap trick (but expensive sold).

Whole Principe was taken from IR laser alarm electronics.

On the box with some electronics are mounted
- in the centre the red laser pointer and
- next to him two tubes with IR sensors.

Now, we need only reflective surfaces like: mirrors, reflective foils, gold things, white paper bag (no black!!), glass vases, etc

In fact nothing inventive, but very primitive scaming idea.

Easy to prove that it does not work (for example, so that one in the background of gold ring put reflective plastic film, little crushed before or put gold in bag with same colour and surface texture as bag background, or put white bag at white background right angled to laser beam, etc).

[putrechigi]

HELLO TO ALL AND HAPPY NEW YEAR, had not seen the debate, I am personally acquainted with that person and will be contacting 'TOMORROW TO FIND OUT ALL INFORMATION POSSIBLE
BEST REGUARDS

[Theseus]

Good grief...
That's why all the serious LRL discussions now have moved to the TNET forum.

You have got to be joking! Well.... of course you are joking; you used the word serious and LRL in the same sentence.

Have you actually checked out what few postings are on TNET? The activity over there is all but nil because the TNET forums are way OVER-MODERATED. Also, the Dowsing Forum is definitely Pro-dowsing and whenever anyone tries to post something to question the Pro-dowsers; they are quickly warned and reminded about the biased rules. If they persist, their postings will be removed and they will be banned, never to return.

The TNET forums are a great place to visit about two or three times a year, because the activity is so low, there isn't anything of any consequence going on over there, and it only takes a couple of minutes to read a few postings from Art and Mike; and then you are done.

Although...... I can certainly see why you'd feel more comfortable over there. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Mike(Mont)]

I wouldn't be surprised if theseus was a tnet moderator. You know, that BTK guy. He's bribed his way onto several LRL forums.

[Carl-NC]

Hung, on TNet you mentioned Frank Casser... does he own a Bionic? If I can find someone who has one, I'm more than willing to visit them for some evaluation.

- Carl

[Theseus]

I wouldn't be surprised if theseus was a tnet moderator. You know, that BTK guy. He's bribed his way onto several LRL forums.

Did you mean PBK guy? :D :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Mike(Mont)]

It was a Freudian slip. Yes, I know how you use the slight of hand--make people believe one thing when it's really just the opposite. You want people to think anyone who uses an LRL is "gullible" when in fact anyone who listens to you is the gullible one.

[WM6]

when in fact

.

Not to demonstrable fact, as all others LRL phenomena, Mike.

But we all have right to working LRL. Where it is?

[putrechigi]

i have spoke at MARCO thi is the name of man in the video he said me that the test is only in the house because the weather is bad and the lrl is new and is the first time that he have. next time he will make other test ( in country) and put on youtube, in the test he move up and down because he said that the lrl work only up and down not left and right
reguards manolo

[J_Player]

Tell you what. I would like to see the calibration and then move the gold and see if the unit still picks it up. The reason I ask is it is possible that the unit has an internal 3 axis mag and is only triggering on the stored position.

So after you beep on the shelf with the gold ring move it to another place and see what the unit does.Hi Tim,
Excellent thinking. You could be right about that. But who's to know without checking it out? i have spoke at MARCO thi is the name of man in the video he said me that the test is only in the house because the weather is bad and the lrl is new and is the first time that he have. next time he will make other test ( in country) and put on youtube, in the test he move up and down because he said that the lrl work only up and down not left and right
reguards manoloHmmmm...
Maybe there is an internal mag that is only 2-axis?
Or maybe not a mag at all... maybe there is a precision level inside? :shocked:

It seems like we tried RF, and MFD, brass rods, IR and needles with thread....
So should we start using levels to find the "phenomenon" now?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

There's no problem to move it sideways at all. But if he did, I imagine you would come up with another bazooki.
i have spoke at MARCO thi is the name of man in the video he said me that the test is only in the house because the weather is bad and the lrl is new and is the first time that he have. next time he will make other test ( in country) and put on youtube, in the test he move up and down because he said that the lrl work only up and down not left and right
reguards manolo
Strike one! :razz:

[J_Player]

There's no problem to move it sideways at all. But if he did, I imagine you would come up with another bazooki.
"Should exist injustice and untruths towards working LRLs, I'll show up to debunker the big mouths"

Originally posted by putrechigi
in the test he move up and down because he said that the lrl work only up and down not left and right

Originally posted by Qiaozhi
Strike one! :razz:Ummm....
so what is a bazooki?
Something from the secret bunker? :???:

Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

he said that the lrl work only up and down not left and right
reguards manolo

Hi Manolo.
Sorry, but your sentence in bold is wrong information. Either you misunderstood it or your friend misexpressed himself.
The Bionic 01 mode of searching is performed as an horizontal axis scan.
The early model did not feature the laser pinpointer and the target always had to be pinpointed by triangulation.
So this information is not correct.

Now, if the new model features a laser pinpointer that can be only used in the vertical axis, this simply does not make sense. Scanning the laser in both axis would be very simple by using a pentaprism for instance and it would just plain absurd having one axis limitation in the pinpointing after the device has detected a long distance target.

Imagine if this happened to the IR leds in the FG80...

I'll be in contact with one of the tech guys in OKM Germany and have him clarify this.

Regards.

[Jim]

See Jim, what I mean by mambo boys?:lol:



No, I do not see what you mean. I do see, however, similarities between you and Dell Winders.

[Jim]

You have got to be joking! Well.... of course you are joking; you used the word serious and LRL in the same sentence.

Have you actually checked out what few postings are on TNET? The activity over there is all but nil because the TNET forums are way OVER-MODERATED. Also, the Dowsing Forum is definitely Pro-dowsing and whenever anyone tries to post something to question the Pro-dowsers; they are quickly warned and reminded about the biased rules. If they persist, their postings will be removed and they will be banned, never to return.

The TNET forums are a great place to visit about two or three times a year, because the activity is so low, there isn't anything of any consequence going on over there, and it only takes a couple of minutes to read a few postings from Art and Mike; and then you are done.

Although...... I can certainly see why you'd feel more comfortable over there. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Theseus is correct.

[WM6]

... in the test he move up and down because he said that the lrl work only up and down not left and right

manolo

Hi manolo,

please, tell to your friend that he has by thus claim acquired the right to stand for the best LRL joke this year.

What about rotary motion?

[Theseus]

It was a Freudian slip. Yes, I know how you use the slight of hand--make people believe one thing when it's really just the opposite. You want people to think anyone who uses an LRL is "gullible" when in fact anyone who listens to you is the gullible one.

I guess you are trying to make a joke. Okay.... :D :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Otherwise, you must be seriously trying to gain the title of Poster Boy for Personified Paranoia for 2010.

Slight of hand??? Please elaborate... I think you are crediting me with talents I didn't even know I had.

Yes, gullible and technically-challenged are two terms that LRL scam artists rely very heavy on; in order to successfully market their wares. But then, as an up and coming LRL salesman, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. :D

[putrechigi]

[quote = appeso; 103.739] Hi Manolo.
Ci dispiace, ma la tua frase in grassetto è l'informazione sbagliata. O si frainteso o il tuo amico misexpressed stesso.
The Bionic 01 modalitÃ* di ricerca è effettuata come un asse di scansione orizzontale.
Il modello iniziale non ha la funzione di pinpointer laser e il bersaglio doveva essere sempre individuato con una triangolazione.
Quindi questa informazione non è corretta.

Ora, se il nuovo modello dispone di un pinpointer laser che può essere utilizzato solo in verticale, questo semplicemente non ha senso. Scansione laser in entrambi gli assi sarebbe molto semplice utilizzando un pentaprisma, ad esempio, e sarebbe semplicemente assurdo che un asse di limitazione della individuazione dopo che il dispositivo ha rilevato un obiettivo a lunga distanza.

Immaginate se questo è accaduto per il led a infrarossi in FG80 ...

Sarò in contatto con uno dei ragazzi tech OKM in Germania e hanno lo chiarire questo punto.

Saluti. [/ Quote]
hello hung as you know I believe in lrl and I just said what I said to my friend Mark, 01 bionic 'a new lrl in Italy as soon as anyone has proven the poster' results, I also believe he can 'do errors since it has not done many tests
reguards manolo

[putrechigi]

[quote = WM6; 103.745] manolo Hi,

per favore, dite al vostro amico che ha acquisito dal quindi affermare il diritto di candidarsi per la battuta migliore LRL quest'anno.

A proposito di ciò che il movimento rotativo? [/ Quote]


hahahahhaahahahahahahah:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::l ol:
you happy now?

[WM6]

[quote = WM6; 103.745] manolo Hi,

per favore, dite al vostro amico che ha acquisito dal quindi affermare il diritto di candidarsi per la battuta migliore LRL quest'anno.

A proposito di ciò che il movimento rotativo? [/ Quote]


hahahahhaahahahahahahah:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::l ol:
you happy now?

For the time being, yes, thank you manolo, but the year will be a long time. I think it would be better to translate my post Nr.15 than Nr.30. And sorry for bad feelings.

[hung]

No, I do not see what you mean. I do see, however, similarities between you and Dell Winders.

That's normal when some people share the same awareness.
It's the same for you, ozzy here and aft 1733 for instance. Very similar and lookalikes.

But you can't compare the discussions that happen here with the ones over TNET. They not even compare.
TNET discussions are deep with real experienced LRL users.
Here the skepthics don't even know of what they are talking about. We can't pass from page 1.

Don't feel bad when you feel you think you 'lost a battle' in discussions with Art and Dell for instance. This is not a war... On the contrary, try to learn something from them. I am positive that it's just a matter of time for you to become an ex-skeptic. This will happen sooner or later.

[WM6]

Here the skepthics don't even know of what they are talking about. We can't pass from page 1.

.

Hi hung.

Sceptic are talking about convincing evidence only, that some LRL is working.

However, such evidence from nowhere, regardless of whether we are looking at page 1 or page 999.

Don't forget, sceptic have right on working LRL too.

[hung]

Hi hung.

Sceptic are talking about convincing evidence only, that some LRL is working.

However, such evidence from nowhere, regardless of whether we are looking at page 1 or page 999.

Don't forget, sceptic have right on working LRL too.

Yes WM6, I agree.
But it's just a matter of attitude. When some skeptics here fight against any LRL possibility, they already have built a wall around them and they will never be able to have access to it. This is evident.
I believe merit also plays a big role. The ones who already got to the point of a working LRL turn protective to their creation.
This is more than understandable. You would do the same. The key to sucess in this subject is: Don't pre-judge something you still don't know, keep an open mind and struggle alone by yourself in your objective.
Regards.

[WM6]

I believe merit also plays a big role. The ones who already got to the point of a working LRL turn protective to their creation.



Fro my point of view, the sceptics do not want anything less than working LRL, as believers do. So I think sceptics are open minded in this matter.

However, for believers are the hopes and dreams faithful enough to believe in the existence of a functioning LRL, while sceptics can be satisfied only by solid evidence.

But we all know that in religious question can not be handled by the evidence. Believer's faith is sufficient, and he shall not use evidence.

Here skeptics and believers will never come together.

But this is no problem at all. Sceptics can live with this fact.

The problem are those scam artist that to naive believers charge criminal high church tax.

[J_Player]

Fro my point of view, the sceptics do not want anything less than working LRL, as believers do. So I think sceptics are open minded in this matter.

However, for believers are the hopes and dreams faithful enough to believe in the existence of a functioning LRL, while sceptics can be satisfied only by solid evidence.

But we all know that in religious question can not be handled by the evidence. Believer's faith is sufficient, and he shall not use evidence.

Here skeptics and believers will never come together.

But this is no problem at all. Sceptics can live with this fact.

The problem are those scam artist that to naive believers charge criminal high church tax.Hi WM6,
You make a mistake in what you think the LRL believers believe in.
LRL believers also believe in the existence of a funcitioning LRL. They believe in solid evidence -- same as skeptics.
Have you not heard LRL believers tell their stories of solid evidence?

We have stories along with photos to show solid evidence found by LRL believers.
Dr. hung is an expert in the field of solid evidence.
Don't you remember when he reported his facts after years of collecting solid evidence?

"Gold is the most powerful 'self defensive' metal when it comes to avoid any harm to its structure, such as rust, oxidation, etc. Its DNA produces a substance which coats the metal to fight against those 'threats'."
See: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=84058 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=84058)

"This is the principle in which the Rangertell Examiner works. Resonance to the elements subatomic levels when a carrier signal line is shot and returned".
See: http://geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=41226#post41226 (http://geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=41226#post41226) I know you also saw his photos of measuring millivolts on the Examiner, as well as his videos that prove with solid evidence that his LRLs work. Maybe this solid evidence will mark the beginning of a true two-sided dialogue with reasonable discussion in the Geotech Remote Sensing forum.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

... When some skeptics here fight against any LRL possibility, they already have built a wall around them and they will never be able to have access to it.

Do you associate the idea of "wall around them" to "bunker" ? that would explain a lot :lol::lol:

About the bionic, i see it more as a distance measurement unit.Or more exactly distance comparator :razz:
Of course it could also be a simple thermometer, i can see it beeps on the the shelf itself ...

[Astrodetect]

Yes I agree with you Hung. As we know Hung and Esteban and Morgan and others have experienced the detection of the phenomenon of LR Detection, so as the rest do not have any experience they should not accuse them, but instead keep an open mind.
Thanks for sharing your experiences.Happy New Year to all.

[J_Player]

Yes I agree with you Hung. As we know Hung and Esteban and Morgan and others have experienced the detection of the phenomenon of LR Detection, so as the rest do not have any experience they should not accuse them, but instead keep an open mind.
Thanks for sharing your experiences.Happy New Year to all.Hi Astrodetect,
I also agree with hung. You are right.
We should not accuse him. We should listen very closely to his words.
"Gold is the most powerful 'self defensive' metal when it comes to avoid any harm to its structure, such as rust, oxidation, etc. Its DNA produces a substance which coats the metal to fight against those 'threats'."
See: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=84058 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=84058)

"This is the principle in which the Rangertell Examiner works. Resonance to the elements subatomic levels when a carrier signal line is shot and returned".
See: http://geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=41226#post41226 (http://geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=41226#post41226) I will keep an open mind like you do for the facts that hung reports.
When we have an open mind for hung's facts, then we can believe everything he says is really true.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

We have stories along with photos to show solid evidence found by LRL believers.
Dr. hung is an expert in the field of solid evidence.

J_P

You are right J_P, "solid evidence" is not completely proper term, I use it just as synonym for scientific evidence obtained under scientific testing rule.

Show us on photos a coin in hand as solid evidence that LRL works is maybe enough for believers, but as scientific evidence such photos and videos are worthless, because they were not obtained in controlled conditions in accordance with scientific rules.

[J_Player]

You are right J_P, "solid evidence" is not completely proper term, I use it just as synonym for scientific evidence obtained under scientific testing rule.

Show us on photos a coin in hand as solid evidence that LRL works is maybe enough for believers, but as scientific evidence such photos and videos are worthless, because they were not obtained in controlled conditions in accordance with scientific rules.Photos of a coin in hand as solid evidence that LRL works?
I don't know about LRLs working except I know it is true because hung says it is true.
"Gold is the most powerful 'self defensive' metal when it comes to avoid any harm to its structure, such as rust, oxidation, etc. Its DNA produces a substance which coats the metal to fight against those 'threats'."You are also correct about testing. You need scientific testing in controlled conditions to observe gold DNA because you cannot see this DNA when you hold a gold coin in your hand. But you can see evidence of the substance it produces to protect the coin from rust and oxidation. The gold is shiny, isn't it?

Doesn't this prove that what hung says is true?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

This sudden rash of condescending comments and remarks directed towards LRL aficionados (believers, salesmen and debunkers) really does not seem to be producing any significant contributions in the way of tangible proofs, evidence or details of validation.

I suggest the new tactic is a failure, and we simply return to the old methods where we point out that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; and let it go at that. When the evidence fails to be presented, then we have our answer. Period. ;)

[J_Player]

This sudden rash of condescending comments and remarks directed towards LRL aficionados (believers, salesmen and debunkers) really does not seem to be producing any significant contributions in the way of tangible proofs, evidence or details of validation.

I suggest the new tactic is a failure, and we simply return to the old methods where we point out that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; and let it go at that. When the evidence fails to be presented, then we have our answer. Period. ;)But aren't we supposed to listen to what LRL experts have to say?
Didn't they say it is necessary to establish a dialogue so the discussion would not be ended after the first post is made?
I thought we were supposed to carry on a discussion with minimum logic, even when the LRL guys make us 'face the truth'.
The object of the LRL believer is not to provide proof. It is to collect believers without proof.
And this cannot be done if we do not believe what they say is the truth.

So you think the Remote Sensing forum rules to be prepared to back up your extraordinary claims is a good idea?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

But aren't we supposed to listen to what LRL experts have to say?

That's why I'm a reader here. If reading and listening are synonymous, than I am listening.

Didn't they say it is necessary to establish a dialogue so the discussion would not be ended after the first post is made?I think I read that several postings back (Author: Hung); however, I don't see where the condescending approach is doing anything to promote dialog. If anything it is turning them off, or status quo at best.

The object of the LRL believer is not to provide proof. It is to collect believers without proof. And this cannot be done if we do not believe what they say. Do you think it's working?


So you think the Remote Sensing forum rules of being prepared to back up your extraordinary claims is a good idea?

Best wishes,
J_PI certainly do. If you don't; what would be a better rule?

[J_Player]

So you think the Remote Sensing forum rules to be prepared to back up your extraordinary claims is a good idea?

originally posted by Theseus
I certainly do. If you don't; what would be a better rule?
I like the idea of being required to back up your extraordinary claims. But I wonder if it would be good to see some kind of rule to kick out chronic pseudoscience experts who refuse to back up their claims, and whine when people ask them to prove what they say is true.

Isn't the intent of the Geotech rules to keep un-challenged pseudoscience in places like TNet and away from here?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

I like the idea of being required to back up your extraordinary claims. But I wonder if it would be good to see some kind of rule to kick out chronic pseudoscience experts who refuse to back up their claims, and whine when people ask them to prove what they say is true.

Best wishes,
J_P

In a perfect world, or alternatively a perfect Remote Sensing Forum, perhaps that kind of wording for a rule might be considered.

However, as we both know, there is no such thing as a perfect world or a perfect RS Forum. And, in light of Carl's phrase in his Intro sticky; "I would like to keep this forum as open as possible.." - it would seem that demanding the purveyors of pseudo and wish science back up their claims, or move on, would be contrary to the desire to keep the forum as open as possible. :)

I personally keep holding onto the idea that some day one of the LRL aficionados will actually come forward with a meaningful piece of evidence. Perhaps I am overly naive, but if we banish them from the forum, there is no possibility of ever learning or experiencing useful evidence from them. ;)

[J_Player]

In a perfect world, or alternatively a perfect Remote Sensing Forum, perhaps that kind of wording for a rule might be considered.

However, as we both know, there is no such thing as a perfect world or a perfect RS Forum. And, in light of Carl's phrase in his Intro sticky; "I would like to keep this forum as open as possible.." - it would seem that demanding the purveyors of pseudo and wish science back up their claims, or move on, would be contrary to the desire to keep the forum as open as possible. :)

I personally keep holding onto the idea that some day one of the LRL aficionados will actually come forward with a meaningful piece of evidence. Perhaps I am overly naive, but if we banish them from the forum, there is no possibility of ever learning or experiencing useful evidence from them. ;)Should also hold onto the idea that there is a possibility I will see meaningful evidence of gold DNA and that substance it produces to inhibit corrosion?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Should also hold onto the idea that there is a possibility I will see meaningful evidence of gold DNA and that substance it produces to inhibit corrosion?

Best wishes,
J_P

It's one thing to keep listening with an open mind, and consider various possibilities for proposed theories and claims. However, I think as listeners we also have a personal responsibility to ourselves, to separate (filter) the ridiculous from the sublime, and not waste a lot of time or resources evaluating that which was presented in jest or pure silliness. Of course that's just my opinion... :D

[J_Player]

It's one thing to keep listening with an open mind, and consider various possibilities for proposed theories and claims. However, I think as listeners we also have a personal responsibility to ourselves, to separate (filter) the ridiculous from the sublime, and not waste a lot of time or resources evaluating that which was presented in jest or pure silliness. Of course that's just my opinion... :DThat sounds like a good plan. Maybe somebody will provide some substantial information to show whether the Bionic 01 is really locating gold items at a distance or not.

Best wishes,
J_P

[g-sani]

That's normal when some people share the same awareness.
It's the same for you, ozzy here and aft 1733 for instance. Very similar and lookalikes.

But you can't compare the discussions that happen here with the ones over TNET. They not even compare.
TNET discussions are deep with real experienced LRL users.
Here the skepthics don't even know of what they are talking about. We can't pass from page 1.

Don't feel bad when you feel you think you 'lost a battle' in discussions with Art and Dell for instance. This is not a war... On the contrary, try to learn something from them. I am positive that it's just a matter of time for you to become an ex-skeptic. This will happen sooner or later.

Of course everybody will be an ex-skeptic sooner or later.
That's destiny, but I have to say that there is a limitation that is different from person to person.Time!
If time would be the same for everybody then we would have the same experiences, we would agree to everything and probably we wouldn't be here making discussions.
In other words somebody realises something today and somebody else does it tomorow.Yesterday their thoughts were different and today are the same.
It is like if we say that all people are the same.Of course they are not.
I have to admit it and I am enjoying doing it that some years back I was a skeptic myself.
So what? Now I am not.
Time is the best doctor arround.This is what they say over here and I believe that this is the truth we like it or not. :)

[putrechigi]

new video in country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akO1jzVEds8&feature=channel

if there aren't joke i think that every metal industries is finished;);)

[putrechigi]

new video in country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akO1jzVEds8&feature=channel

if there aren't joke i think that every metal industries is finished;);)


hung you are right
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-a4buGeOec&feature=channel

[Tim Williams]

I would like you to try something if you don't mind. Have the user put gloves on and repeat the test. I am not trying ti disprove but prove it may work.

[hung]

hung you are right
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-a4buGeOec&feature=channel

I knew it. There was simply no reason why the laser would not work in the horizontal axis, since a simple pentaprism aproach makes it work both in the X and Y axis.

The indoor video clearly shows the laser modulated to the gold frequency and it does not reflect any other target at the wall when moved sideways.
Congratulations to OKM for the evolution regarding the previous model. Now it's easy to pinpoint the target. Maybe my team will get one to team up with the MIDAS.:D

The outdoor videos show the device detecting at distance in normal mode. Notice how the laser is turned off.
I will talk to Alonso about maybe employing a laser beam in substitution to the IR leds for pinpointing in the Mineoros. Let's see what he says.

Putrechigi, thanks very much for posting the videos. You were faster than OKM's support regarding a reply to my querie.
Now everything is clear.

Best regards.

[Theseus]

I knew it. There was simply no reason why the laser would not work in the horizontal axis, since a simple pentaprism aproach makes it work both in the X and Y axis.

The indoor video clearly shows the laser modulated to the gold frequency and it does not reflect any other target at the wall when moved sideways.
Congratulations to OKM for the evolution regarding the previous model. Now it's easy to pinpoint the target. Maybe my team will get one to team up with the MIDAS.:D

The outdoor videos show the device detecting at distance in normal mode. Notice how the laser is turned off.
I will talk to Alonso about maybe employing a laser beam in substitution to the IR leds for pinpointing in the Mineoros. Let's see what he says.

Putrechigi, thanks very much for posting the videos. You were faster than OKM's support regarding a reply to my querie.
Now everything is clear.

Best regards.

Take a real close look at this video. Pause the video and watch where the laser pointer is when the light starts flashing. There is a point of reflection from the shelf; not the target, and the light starts blinking before the laser is even on the gold.

Suppose there is a pushbutton switch or trigger switch that is activated by the operator when the laser is on (or near the target).

To prove that is not the case; tune the device to be activated by the gold target. Then place the device on a table, not held by an operator. Then at some distance away, move a gold target into the laser beam and show the lights flashing only when the target is in the beam.

That still doesn't prove it is only detecting gold, just that the operator is not pressing a switch to activate the lights.

Next would be to try and move a small dental inspection mirror into the beam, or perhaps other shiny metal objects.

[Fred]

This is why i wrote it could be distance related.

[J_Player]

This is why i wrote it could be distance related.You mean like a laser range-finder?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

Hi Manolo.
Sorry, but your sentence in bold is wrong information. Either you misunderstood it or your friend misexpressed himself.
The Bionic 01 mode of searching is performed as an horizontal axis scan.
The early model did not feature the laser pinpointer and the target always had to be pinpointed by triangulation.
So this information is not correct.

Now, if the new model features a laser pinpointer that can be only used in the vertical axis, this simply does not make sense. Scanning the laser in both axis would be very simple by using a pentaprism for instance and it would just plain absurd having one axis limitation in the pinpointing after the device has detected a long distance target.

Imagine if this happened to the IR leds in the FG80...

I'll be in contact with one of the tech guys in OKM Germany and have him clarify this.

Regards.
Happy new year for all forum members

Hello Hung

Let me tell you that i visit OKM in Germany some years ago,when the LRL production center was near the feunf minuten strass (five minute stret).
After the OKM lrl field demonstration i come to the conclusion this products are not good. They fail completly,not found 1kg of silver objects (i buried 30 cm near the OKM factury), They said its becouse ground conditions...:nono:

[J_Player]

...That still doesn't prove it is only detecting gold, just that the operator is not pressing a switch to activate the lights.

Next would be to try and move a small dental inspection mirror into the beam, or perhaps other shiny metal objects. I know of ways to cause a detector with a laser to respond only to gold seen in the air. It is not necessary to cause the laser illuminator to operate at the "gold frequency" or any other frequency designated for a particular metal. The laser is only an illuminator, while discrimination is done by processing signals that are returned from receiving optics.

A more important question for this locator is "Can it find buried treasures?"
To see if this locator can detect buried gold, you would need to bury a gold item at least a few inches under the ground, wouldn't you?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

[quote = appeso; 103.739] Hi Manolo.
Ci dispiace, ma la tua frase in grassetto è l'informazione sbagliata. O si frainteso o il tuo amico misexpressed stesso.
The Bionic 01 modalitÃ* di ricerca è effettuata come un asse di scansione orizzontale.
Il modello iniziale non ha la funzione di pinpointer laser e il bersaglio doveva essere sempre individuato con una triangolazione.
Quindi questa informazione non è corretta.

Ora, se il nuovo modello dispone di un pinpointer laser che può essere utilizzato solo in verticale, questo semplicemente non ha senso. Scansione laser in entrambi gli assi sarebbe molto semplice utilizzando un pentaprisma, ad esempio, e sarebbe semplicemente assurdo che un asse di limitazione della individuazione dopo che il dispositivo ha rilevato un obiettivo a lunga distanza.

Immaginate se questo è accaduto per il led a infrarossi in FG80 ...

Sarò in contatto con uno dei ragazzi tech OKM in Germania e hanno lo chiarire questo punto.

Saluti. [/ Quote]
hello hung as you know I believe in lrl and I just said what I said to my friend Mark, 01 bionic 'a new lrl in Italy as soon as anyone has proven the poster' results, I also believe he can 'do errors since it has not done many tests
reguards manolo
Hi Manolo

Yes,but the first big error he have done, was to buy this useless and expensive device...
Many of my TH friends from Germany know bionic is a fraud.

Regards

[Morgan]

I know of ways to cause a detector with a laser to respond only to gold seen in the air.
A more important question is "Can it find buried treasures?"

To see if this locator can detect buried gold, you would need to bury a gold item at least a few inches under the ground, wouldn't you?

Best wishes,
J_P
Hi J_P

I know how it works OKM,some products are resonable if ground conditions are good,but this bionic is worst than mineoro,i have friends who try this near HOT places and find nothing,this is expensive LRL for rich people,not TH tool.

Regards

[J_Player]

Hi J_P

I know how it works OKM,some products are resonable if ground conditions are good,but this bionic is worst than mineoro,i have friends who try this near HOT places and find nothing,this is expensive LRL for rich people,not TH tool.

RegardsHi Morgan,
I don't know what electronics are in this detector, but I am speculating it will detect gold you place in plain sight, and not detect any buried metal that is under the ground more than a few cm. Maybe it is useful for finding the gold necklace mixed in with junk metal that you have spread out on the table.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

new video in country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akO1jzVEds8&feature=channel

if there aren't joke i think that every metal industries is finished;);)
Hi Manolo
Tell to your friend Marco, to go to America and get the Karl´s Mega price,the Challenge...

I fell sorry for your friend in desperate atempt to prove Bionic works as LRL,i´m sure he wants to sell this device,videos are to impress people...


Regards

[hung]

Happy new year for all forum members

Hello Hung

Let me tell you that i visit OKM in Germany some years ago,when the LRL production center was near the feunf minuten strass (five minute stret).
After the OKM lrl field demonstration i come to the conclusion this products are not good. They fail completly,not found 1kg of silver objects (i buried 30 cm near the OKM factury), They said its becouse ground conditions...:nono:

Hi Morgan,

A few points to clarify.

1 - I had the proof that the Bionic 01 works when a thunter here told me he had been in an expedition with a peruvian friend who had one. My friend had his FG80 with him. They located several pounds of gold at long range. The Bionic 01 apparently in that occasion detected it first and then the FG80 followed it making my friend conclude the OKM device had more range. The FG80 was used to pinpoint the target as the Bionic at that time could not except by employing triangulation as their site shows.
Even with this apparent limitation, my friend was impressed at the detecting capabilities of the device.
Well, this was the old model.

2 - The device appearing in the videos is obviously an upgrade model with several enhancements, such as a more stable and precise circuit, for what I could see and a laser pinpointer.
The detector now features the laser pinpointer to overcome the limitation it had for pinpointing the object. The laser is absolutely not the detector itself.
It is modulated at the receiver's probes same frequency to be used in the pinpointing process.

3 - It's easy claim some detector does not work if you have not found anything with it.

I trust my friend and got a detailed report of the device behavior.
So although I'm not familiar with the device itself, I'm familiar with the technology it might employ and based on that, I can safely say they have made their homework and there is no reason at all to think that the person in the video is making everything up.

So, please change your mind.
The PD is a reality. So is the OKM's BIONIC 01.
Regards.

[Morgan]

Hi Morgan,

A few points to clarify.

1 - I had the proof that the Bionic 01 works when a thunter here told me he had been in an expedition with a peruvian friend who had one. My friend had his FG80 with him. They located several pounds of gold at long range. The Bionic 01 apparently in that occasion detected it first and then the FG80 followed it making my friend conclude the OKM device had more range. The FG80 was used to pinpoint the target as the Bionic at that time could not except by employing triangulation as their site shows.
Even with this apparent limitation, my friend was impressed at the detecting capabilities of the device.
Well, this was the old model.

2 - The device appearing in the videos is obviously an upgrade model with several enhancements, such as a more stable and precise circuit, for what I could see and a laser pinpointer.
The detector now features the laser pinpointer to overcome the limitation it had for pinpointing the object. The laser is absolutely not the detector itself.
It is modulated at the receiver's probes same frequency to be used in the pinpointing process.

3 - It's easy claim some detector does not work if you have not found anything with it.

I trust my friend and got a detailed report of the device behavior.
So although I'm not familiar with the device itself, I'm familiar with the technology it might employ and based on that, I can safely say they have made their homework and there is no reason at all to think that the person in the video is making everything up.

So, please change your mind.
The PD is a reality. So is the OKM's BIONIC 01.
Regards.
Hi
In this video we can see Manolo´s friend detect at considerable distance one gold item previously buried,this means the new BIONIC is able to locate fresh buried gold at several meters distance. And if Marco is a serios person,he have one amazing LRL device,superior than my PD.
But we need to know if its all true...Yes i can change my mind

[J_Player]

Hi
In this video we can see Manolo´s friend detect at considerable distance one gold item previously buried,this means the new BIONIC is able to locate fresh buried gold at several meters distance. And if Marco is a serios person,he have one amazing LRL device,superior than my PD.
But we need to know if its all true...Yes i can change my mindHi Morgan,
I see a video that has the appearance of detecting a shovel handle in the air at considerable distance.
Wouldn't it be better to see the OKM detect only the buried gold with nothing else on the surface nearby?

Best wishes,
J_P

[putrechigi]

hi morgan nice to see you again in the forum next saturday if MARCO can go at my house i test bionic two hears ego i tell him if is possible to buy bionic and he said me that was not good lrl now is different with dis bionic 01 he tell me is very simple to find gold i not watc personali bionic at work and i said only what he said me but is serious man ha sel metal fro many ears and if wrong in italy he stopped his work you know what i want to said

P.S. in october you tell me that go in italy for to find a treasure you was?

[Fred]

You mean like a laser range-finder?

Best wishes,
J_P

Yes, or ultrasound , could be also an IR thermometer :
ULTRASONIC ROOM MEASURE DISTANCE METER WITH LASER POINT:

10763

Non-Contact IR Infrared Thermometer Laser Gun

10764

[Qiaozhi]

There is no indication in the video that it is able to detect a target using a horizontal sweep. In fact, an vertical sweep is used on the two gold targets, but then to "prove" that no other targets on the shelf are detected, a horizontal sweep is employed. Very suspicious.

Also, during "calibration", the user cannot keep the laser steady and it often misses the target. So what is it "calibrating"?

During "target detection" the blue LED illuminates before the laser hits the target. What's that about then? :lol:

Even if this gadget was actually capable of detecting gold at a distance, could you imagine scanning a large terrain using a small laser beam. It would take forever! :nono:

Theseus is correct. A better test would be to keep the device stationary while moving selected targets in front of the beam.

[Morgan]

hi morgan nice to see you again in the forum next saturday if MARCO can go at my house i test bionic two hears ego i tell him if is possible to buy bionic and he said me that was not good lrl now is different with dis bionic 01 he tell me is very simple to find gold i not watc personali bionic at work and i said only what he said me but is serious man ha sel metal fro many ears and if wrong in italy he stopped his work you know what i want to said

P.S. in october you tell me that go in italy for to find a treasure you was?
For personal reasons i could not go to Germany in the last october.My friends found the treasure,it was hidden during the WW II.

Well,if your friend Marco tell the true about this new BIONIC,its time for you to tell us about HOW IT WORKS, DISTANCE(single gold coin) and Depht,its very good that you can see this device working,no need to pay for plain tickets ;)

[J_Player]

Yes, or ultrasound , could be also an IR thermometer :
ULTRASONIC ROOM MEASURE DISTANCE METER WITH LASER POINT:
Non-Contact IR Infrared Thermometer Laser Gun


Originally posted by Qiaozhi
...Even if this gadget was actually capable of detecting gold at a distance, could you imagine scanning a large terrain using a small laser beam. It would take forever! :nono:

Theseus is correct. A better test would be to keep the device stationary while moving selected targets in front of the beam. Hi Fred,
Sure, Ultrasonic rangefinders use laser pinpointers to show what you are aiming at. But there are also laser rangefinders that do not use ultrasound. These work by measuring time of flight of laser pulses, with the advantage of better range and penetration through haze and fog. Some laser rangefinders come equipped with a monocular so you can see your target while reading the distance. The more advanced versions can display the distance of several objects at the same time. Some can even measure the distance of moving targets. These are popular with hunters, and with and golfers who want to know how far away their golf ball is.
Hmmm... If there are laser ranging optics that can identify a moving target in the OKM, then moving a gold target in front of the OKM would not show a change in its response when the target is moved.. :shocked:

Does the OKM use laser ranging electronics?
Maybe... didn't you see how the user kept it pointed at the top of the shovel handle right up to the final steps when he turned it off?

But suppose it is more advanced than simple laser rangefinding... Maybe it is identifying the material that the laser beam strikes. If this is the case, then we can see it identified the material in the shovel handle from at a considerable distance. It certainly was not pinpointing at the ground where the gold was buried. The video clearly shows him pinpointing the shovel handle, conveniently placed a few feet above the ground where the laser beam could hit it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akO1jzVEds8&feature=channel


I think I can locate all treasures buried below a shovel in the air without using a laser to help me.
I wonder if the OKM can identify buried gold when there is no shovel to aim at?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

For personal reasons i could not go to Germany in the last october.My friends found the treasure,it was hidden during the WW II.

Well,if your friend Marco tell the true about this new BIONIC,its time for you to tell us about HOW IT WORKS, DISTANCE(single gold coin) and Depht,its very good that you can see this device working,no need to pay for plain tickets ;)
This girl,owner of BIONIC 01,said i can find TREASURE 15 Km distance and buried 20 m . Its amazing :D I think the TH Odissey need this new device
10767

[Morgan]

Sure, Ultrasonic rangefinders use laser pinpointers to show what you are aiming at. But there are also laser rangefinders that do not use ultrasound. These work by measuring time of flight of laser pulses, with the advantage of better range and penetration through haze and fog. Instead of using a separate visible laser to show where you are pointing, they have a monocular that you can see your target with while reading the distance. The more advanced versions can measure several objects in the distance at the same time, and display all of them. Some even measure the distance of moving targets. These are popular with hunters, and with and golfers who want to know how far away their golf ball is. Hmmm... If there are laser ranging optics that can identify a moving target in the OKM, then moving a gold target in front of the OKM would not show it changing its response when the target is moved.. :shocked:

Does the OKM use laser ranging electronics?
Maybe... didn't you see how the user kept it pointed at the top of the shovel handle right up to the final steps when he turned it off?

But maybe it is more advanced than simple laser rangefinding. Maybe it is identifying the material that the laser strikes. If this is the case, then we can see it identified the material in the shovel handle from at a considerable distance. It certainly was not pinpointing at the ground where the gold was buried, he was pinpointing the shovel handle conveniently placed a few feet above the ground where the laser beam could hit it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akO1jzVEds8&feature=channel


I wonder if it can identify buried gold when there is no shovel to aim at?

Best wishes,
J_P
Manolo told this man is a MD dealer,so maybe he is trying to introduce Bionic-01 using black magic(hope not) ,but i will wait for Manolo field test report,we will see if this device is realy good or not...

[J_Player]

Manolo told this man is a MD dealer,so maybe he is trying to introduce Bionic-01 using black magic(hope not) ,but i will wait for Manolo field test report,we will see if this device is realy good or not...Manolo will not be fooled by a test that shows the OKM finding a shovel in the air, will he?
He will only believe when he sees it find the ground above buried gold with no other laser targets near the gold. Right?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Jim]

hi morgan nice to see you again in the forum next saturday if MARCO can go at my house i test bionic two hears ego i tell him if is possible to buy bionic and he said me that was not good lrl now is different with dis bionic 01 he tell me is very simple to find gold i not watc personali bionic at work and i said only what he said me but is serious man ha sel metal fro many ears and if wrong in italy he stopped his work you know what i want to said

P.S. in october you tell me that go in italy for to find a treasure you was?

Is this over in Italy? Is Marco the OKM dealer in that area?

Also notable on the indoor test, it about the 54 second mark when Marco is moving horizontal back to the target, he lowers the device before it reaches the target, then moves the device up...passing over the target...and it does not beep....then when he lowers it...it beeps and the light flashes.

Why didn't the device beep on the horzontil sweep and why didn't it beep on the upward sweep

[putrechigi]

hi my frends i'm not here for to sell metal ot lrl but only to know if at last we are at a turning point regarding the lrl just possibile if Mark has not yet sold all the pieces will go in an old abandoned village to see if in the really condition find gold and silver
reguards

[Jim]

hi my frends i'm not here for to sell metal ot lrl but only to know if at last we are at a turning point regarding the lrl just possibile if Mark has not yet sold all the pieces will go in an old abandoned village to see if in the really condition find gold and silver
reguards

Isn't Mark the OKM dealer in Italy? I think the US rep said he was

[hung]

Skepthics here in this forum are hilarious.
They usually watch LRL video demonstrations as they are watching a David Copperfield or Chris Angel show tryng to figue out where the tricks are...:lol::lol:

From the Series 'skepthics favorite quotes' Vol 1:

'It's a trick'
'It's obviously a scam'
'Why did he not do this?'
'He could have done that'
'Ah.. It's a trick of the mind' - this one is my favorite 'heavy metal quote'.:lol:
'Ah... Suppose there's a pushbutton switch...'
'Hummm...extraordinary claim calls for extraordinary poohh'(pun intended)

*********
There are a bunch more but I will leave those for Vol 2 .. Hey, this is boring...

Manolo, even if you and Marco do detect gold with the device and video tape it, people here will not believe you and will use some of their favorite quotes above.
You know, skepthics already found out that the real inventor of LRLs is Chris Angel.:ninja:

[Qiaozhi]

Skepthics here in this forum are hilarious.
They usually watch LRL video demonstrations as they are watching a David Copperfield or Chris Angel show tryng to figue out where the tricks are...:lol::lol:

From the Series 'skepthics favorite quotes' Vol 1:

'It's a trick'
'It's obviously a scam'
'Why did he not do this?'
'He could have done that'
'Ah.. It's a trick of the mind' - this one is my favorite 'heavy metal quote'.:lol:
'Ah... Suppose there's a pushbutton switch...'
'Hummm...extraordinary claim calls for extraordinary poohh'(pun intended)

*********
There are a bunch more but I will leave those for Vol 2 .. Hey, this is boring...

Manolo, even if you and Marco do detect gold with the device and video tape it, people here will not believe you and will use some of their favorite quotes above.
You know, skepthics already found out that the real inventor of LRLs is Chris Angel.:ninja:
There are many anomalies with both videos. Your ability to accept such "evidence" at face value is highly unscientific. :D

[hung]

There are many anomalies with both videos.

Actually there are 5 available videos to watch so far.

But I may agree with you on the anomalies...
Since you are in this subject, what about the anomalies found in the man on the moon videos in '69? Very suspicious eh? Those shades... I think it was a bad trick of the light... A hoax. What about you?

[WM6]

You know, skepthics already found out that the real inventor of LRLs is Chris Angel.:ninja:



In fact there are two inventors Chris & Angelina.

[Fred]

Not only there is plenty of anomalies on those videos, but also there is absolutely nothing that shows something being really "detected".
So, based on those videos we would have to be particularly stupid to buy such a device or just believe it does something usefull.

[J_Player]

Not only there is plenty of anomalies on those videos, but also there is absolutely nothing that shows something being really "detected".
So, based on those videos we would have to be particularly stupid to buy such a device or just believe it does something usefull.It sure looked like he detected that shovel handle to me.
I guess I don't need to find lost shovels stood up in the air, so I won't be buying one.

Best wishes,
J_P

[putrechigi]

Manolo, even if you and Marco do detect gold with the device and video tape it, people here will not believe you and will use some of their favorite quotes above.




i think before saying if it works or not must attend in person and in real-world research, many people start with a negative thought I can respect but not share, from mature person I am, without starting with jokes and mocking forum
best reguardsI

[Qiaozhi]

Actually there are 5 available videos to watch so far.

But I may agree with you on the anomalies...
Since you are in this subject, what about the anomalies found in the man on the moon videos in '69? Very suspicious eh? Those shades... I think it was a bad trick of the light... A hoax. What about you?
The subject of the moon landings is completely off-topic ... but as someone once said about this particular conspiracy theory: "The mass media catapult these half-truths into a kind of twilight zone where people can make their guesses sound as truths. Mass media have a terrible impact on people who lack guidance."

Sound familiar?

[g-sani]

Qiaozhi wrote
....Even if this gadget was actually capable of detecting gold at a distance, could you imagine scanning a large terrain using a small laser beam. It would take forever!......

If the laser acts as a sensor and doesn't just show the possible spot where gold is then I strongly agree whith Qiaozhi and this is the only possibility of what could have happened.
In my opinion the laser is just a help to show the spot but a question to OKM will give us light.The previous model was not based in such a principle anyway.

Watching the videos and talking about when light flashes or when and where the signal comes up relating to where the laser was spotting that time says nothing at all to me.
Slightly movement of the hand equals to meters away where the target is and apart from that you must be familiar to the speed you are using when operating an LRL from side to side and this I believe is a different factor for every LRL and in some way it is also proportional to size and distance.
Time needed for the ccts to produce results(flashing leds,sound) also might be different from one to another so somebody must be trained to make an LRL working even when it is capable of doing so.
For me the case is that this guy used the shovel standing up where the ring was hidden because otherwise it would be very difficult to get a signal from such a small target thus very difficult to detect it in real conditions.Watch how slowly he moves bionic using both his hands.
Then by saying something like that it is like myself admitting that Bionic 01 is very directional.
To tell you the truth this is the only thing that came up to my mind by watching the videos and when we are talking for LRLs I think that this is a quality factor.
Well I don't know and may be the new bionic 01 is so directional and I cannot say anything more about this since I have never had one in my hands.
Anyway my opinion is that the guy in the video shows a tendency to prove that bionic 01 is working.And this is because I am sure that while he was trying to test it he had also some misses under may be some other conditions or some cases that the results where not that nice as in these ones.
Well to be more believable he should put those videos on youtube as well and not only the successfull ones.

[Fred]

Manolo, even if you and Marco do detect gold with the device and video tape it, people here will not believe you and will use some of their favorite quotes above.
So, this is not what happened on the video ? :shocked:

[g-sani]

Actually there are 5 available videos to watch so far.

But I may agree with you on the anomalies...
Since you are in this subject, what about the anomalies found in the man on the moon videos in '69? Very suspicious eh? Those shades... I think it was a bad trick of the light... A hoax. What about you?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That was good!

[Jim]

Manolo, even if you and Marco do detect gold with the device and video tape it, people here will not believe you and will use some of their favorite quotes above.




i think before saying if it works or not must attend in person and in real-world research, many people start with a negative thought I can respect but not share, from mature person I am, without starting with jokes and mocking forum
best reguardsI

Isn't Mark the OKM dealer in Italy? I think the US rep said he was...and this is the third time I've asked this question

[humhum]

Hi to All , how work this Bionic and Please open inside box or pipe for showing.

[lonelyWOLF]

hi humhum ..I think that this device light gun :D

look at the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_gun


(pek inandırıcı gelmedi bana selamlar E.A )

[hung]

OKM has sent me a reply and confirmed what I had observed since the very first video.
Just like the Mineoros use the IR Led for pinpointing the new Bionic uses the laser beam for this.
So as I had previously claimed here, there's no such thing as a 'laser detector' as some here erroneously suggested.

Also OKM confirms that it can be swept in both axis (horizontal and vertical) because if not, it would never make sense and sure it would be more than a limitation to it.
The north-south aproach is mentioned as it's known as the best orientation for max ionic broadcast and discovered a long time ago by Damasio-Alonso.

It's clear that OKM evolved the inner ionic circuit/ionic mode aproach to be able to detect also fresh items from a distance as the Tyon for instance already does.

Let's wait for Manolo in his field test with Marco to confirm OKM's inputs.
Here's OKM's reply at my inquiry:


Hello,

with the Bionic 01 you can do vertical and horizontal movements. Important in the ionic mode is that you try to scan from north to south direction.

The test inside a house is very limited because there is a lot of metal around, which can influence the measurement.

The laser pointer on the device is used for orientation in the field. So you can better locate the spot when scanning outside in long distances.

Best Regards
Julia Bessel
--
OKM Ortungstechnik GmbH
Am Fünfminutenweg 6
04603 Windischleuba / Germany

PS. Bolds mine.

[WM6]

So as I had previously claimed here, there's no such thing as a 'laser detector' as some here erroneously suggested.

.

Hi Hung

Incorporated Laser detector is not suggestion, this is fact.

You do not need to ask Julia, which answer what they have to answer, you need only to take some look inside box and all is clear.

[Fred]

It's clear that OKM evolved the inner ionic circuit/ionic mode aproach to be able to detect also fresh items from a distance as the Tyon for instance already does.
So long for the long-time burried metals theory.No more gold ions floating around ? :frown:

[hung]

So long for the long-time burried metals theory.No more gold ions floating around ? :frown:

Sorry. I used the term 'at a distance' in a wrong way refering to the laser and IR led detection.
The term should actually be at a 'short' distance, since in the case of Mineoro and possibly the Bionic 01, they are pinpointers modulated at the receiver's probe frequencies.

The ionic emissions behave exactly like before and 'captured' by ionic chamber in Mineoro and apparently also by an ionic chamber type sensor in the BIonic 01 since this is what they claim in the manual.

[J_Player]

Sorry. I used the term 'at a distance' in a wrong way refering to the laser and IR led detection.
The term should actually be at a 'short' distance, since in the case of Mineoro and possibly the Bionic 01, they are pinpointers modulated at the receiver's probe frequencies.

The ionic emissions behave exactly like before and 'captured' by ionic chamber in Mineoro and apparently also by an ionic chamber type sensor in the BIonic 01 since this is what they claim in the manual.Well, that explains it all!

Now that we know for a fact the Bionic 01 is detecting gold ions, it will no longer be necessary to place a shovel or anything else at the spot where the laser is pointing. The Bionic 01 will respond perfectly to the air above the ground where gold is buried, without a shovel or anything else to pinpoint before digging the gold below it. This will prove it detected gold ions floating in the air, not the shovel or anything else placed conveniently where the laser is pin-pointing.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

The ionic emissions behave exactly like before and 'captured' by ionic chamber in Mineoro and apparently also by an ionic chamber type sensor in the BIonic 01 since this is what they claim in the manual.
This is disturbing.
Untill now i was understanding that gold was releasing ions slowly after being burried 10 or more years.
Now you tell me that every piece of fresh gold laying around is evaporating and releasing an heavy fux of ions.- and the bionic01 and mineoros rely on this principle to detect it...
:shocked:

[J_Player]

This is disturbing.
Untill now i was understanding that gold was releasing ions slowly after being burried 10 or more years.
Now you tell me that every piece of fresh gold laying around is evaporating and releasing an heavy fux of ions.- and the bionic01 and mineoros rely on this principle to detect it...
:shocked:Of course they can.

"Fresh gold" is what the FG means on the FG79 and FG80 Mineoros.
The fact that minute traces of gold ions are released only after many years was proved by scientists using conventional chemical titration tests of the soil. These scientists are not to be trusted. The concept of floating gold ions comes directly from the people who manufacture LRLs that detect these ions. Who would know better? Some scientists with thier field tests of the soil and air, or manufacturers of LRLs?

You saw the videos showing the Bionic 01 beeping at gold rings and a shovel handle, didn't you?
Doesn't that prove it located gold ions floating in the air?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

This is disturbing.
Untill now i was understanding that gold was releasing ions slowly after being burried 10 or more years.
Now you tell me that every piece of fresh gold laying around is evaporating and releasing an heavy fux of ions.- and the bionic01 and mineoros rely on this principle to detect it...
:shocked:

Don't be disturbed, Fred. Do not trouble yourself with false understanding.

There are no more ions being released (into the air) by fresh gold lying around than there are by buried gold. The idea of a flux of ions (from gold) hovering several feet above the ground is pure pseudo-science concocted to help sell scam LRL contraptions.

(Note: the above comment is presented as a non-condescending entry)

[Fred]

Don't be disturbed, Fred. Do not trouble yourself with false understanding.
Thanks Thesus,
I am felling better already.But you should understand when i am being ironic by now. After all we share this place from long enough. :lol:

I hope Dr Hung will explain why we were looking so hard for the long-time buried gold effects and suddenly it is no more necessary.
Maybe it can be explained by the advances of technology - but then arise the question : what is being detected ? (Hung??)

[hung]

This is disturbing.
Untill now i was understanding that gold was releasing ions slowly after being burried 10 or more years.

That's correct. The longer the time and the deeper the gold is, the stronger the field.

Now you tell me that every piece of fresh gold laying around is evaporating and releasing an heavy fux of ions.- and the bionic01 and mineoros rely on this principle to detect it...
:shocked:

I did not say that.

I said that the IR in the new Mineoros is used for pinpointing purposes at a relatively close distance because it's modulated at the receiver's frequency. In the Tyon's case the receiver is much more sensitive and along with the IR Leds circuitry (Tyon has two-TX and RX), it has the ability to detect fresh gold items, again in a moderate distance through reflex and modulation.
In some other thread I already mentioned that I did a test and it was able to detect a fresh gold ring indoors at 3-4 meters and an aluminum can at only 20 cm. A real improvement in the filtering stage and this is what I mentioned at the time.

In the Bionic 01's case, I can only imagine the laser is doing the same thing as I am not familiar with the device. But I am familiar with the aproach.

[Fred]

I did not say that.
Ok, those devices don´t rely on ion emanations to detect gold. I understand.

...through reflex and modulation
My conclusion is that they only detect non-buried gold. :shocked:

[J_Player]

Ok, those devices don´t rely on ion emanations to detect gold. I understand.


My conclusion is that they only detect non-buried gold. :shocked:Hi Fred,

Have you forgotten they also detect non-buried shovel handles? Maybe they detect anything you can hold in the air.
Maybe this is why German treasure hunters say they don't find buried treasure ...
things in the air are not buried treasures, and do not need to be located.
They can buy locators from Leica and Carl Zeiss that also locate things in the air for a lot less money.

Here is a magician's guide to the youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akO1jzVEds8&feature=channel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akO1jzVEds8&feature=channel)

[putrechigi]

ok perfect I see that many have 'drawn the conclusions, I respect but do not share them, I apologize to anyone who wanted more news, but the tests we do "positive or negative will be" soon will not be posted, if you're interested contact me in mp


regardless of what you think if bionic not work, I'd be the first to say, just waiting to do tests before coming to conclusions
reguards

[Carl-NC]

regardless of what you think if bionic not work, I'd be the first to say, just waiting to do tests before coming to conclusions

I agree. Like the Mineoro, the Bionic "seems too good to be true," so cautious skepticism is certainly warranted. But, also like the Mineoro, I'll wait to see it in person before I make a conclusion.

I've called Frank Casser, OKM rep in the US, and he has a Bionic 01 in hand. However, he's in south Florida, I'm in Oregon, and right now neither of us have travel plans that put us close together. But we are going to stay in touch and eventually arrange a demonstration.

I had hopes that someone else in the US might own one by now, but he did not know of anyone who's bought one.

- Carl

[hung]

I agree. Like the Mineoro, the Bionic "seems too good to be true," so cautious skepticism is certainly warranted. But, also like the Mineoro, I'll wait to see it in person before I make a conclusion.

- Carl

...And you intend to test it on your electric dog fence as you did with the FG80, I suppose?

You see Carl, this is just one of the reasons experienced LRL users bash you over TNET.
You simply discard owners and LRL user testimonies if it does not fit your agenda.

I don't have the slightest doubt the Bionic 01 works. So does Mineoro, Electroscope, RT, you name it.
Why? Because in the case of Mineoros and RT, I found gold with them many times.
In the case of the Electroscope, there's David Villanuevas' testimony. In the case of the previous Bionic 01 model, I have my friend's testimony.

When you discard all our testimonies, you start to act as irrational and altist, ignoring evidences of sucessful users. And by doing that, you infer we are all liers.

The question in debate is how good the BIonic 01 performs.

You still keep 'hammering' your old motto regarding if some device works or not. C'mon, wake up! We are in 2010!
When you had the opportunity to get a FG80 in your hands, I came forward to offer all my help because I knew that with the device, you would find gold if you were true in your cause and if you wished to find gold indeed. I wanted to see your sincerity.

We all know how it ended, don't we Carl?
That's why you have never been taken seriously by the experienced LRL users over TNET.

It's clear as fresh water...

[Theseus]

<< comedy routine snipped >>
That's why you have never been taken seriously by the experienced LRL users over TNET.

Who exactly are these experienced LRL users over on Tnet?

Would that be Art and Mike? :shrug:

Surely, you jest!


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[J_Player]

The question in debate is how good the BIonic 01 performs.Hmmm...

If the question of the debate is how good the Bionic 01 performs, then the answer can best be determined by watching a Bionic 01 perform live in front of you, and trying it out with your own hands. I agree with Carl. Putrechigi has the right idea... He is going to live a demonstration to see how good it works right in front of him with a chance to try it out himself. I can't think of a better way than that.

Expecting us to believe your second-hand reports from your friend who says his friend located several pounds of gold with a Bionic 01 won't work. Only a fool would buy an expensive locator that not even you would buy, yet you urge us to believe it works because a friend of a friend say it works.


I don't have the slightest doubt the Bionic 01 works. So does Mineoro, Electroscope, RT, you name it.
Why? Because in the case of Mineoros and RT, I found gold with them many times.It almost sounds like you have some motive to get people to believe all LRLs work.
BTW, aren't you a friend of employees and owners of the Mineoro LRL factory near your home in Brazil?


Best wishes,
J_P

[gibon]

ok perfect I see that many have 'drawn the conclusions, I respect but do not share them, I apologize to anyone who wanted more news, but the tests we do "positive or negative will be" soon will not be posted, if you're interested contact me in mp


regardless of what you think if bionic not work, I'd be the first to say, just waiting to do tests before coming to conclusions
reguards

Hello Putre,

Firstable happy new year and yes I'm interested by your test.

Sincerly

[Fred]

Why? Because in the case of Mineoros and RT, I found gold with them many times.
That doesn´t means they are working LRL´s.I have found gold with car keys in my pocket and they are no LRL.

[Tim Williams]

I am waiting to test the unit here on my test targets. Frank was very nice and will contact me next month for a meeting. I will keep all informed.

[Carl-NC]

You simply discard owners and LRL user testimonies if it does not fit your agenda.

When you discard all our testimonies, you start to act as irrational and altist, ignoring evidences of sucessful users. And by doing that, you infer we are all liers.

I have always conceded that some people who use LRLs (or who just dowse) have actually found things. But I don't give testimonials a lot of weight, because I know that other factors may have been the reason for success. Quite often, LRLers will admit that these other factors were in play, but they still give the LRL the nod.

Ferinstance, many LRLers admit they use a metal detector to check each target location the LRL "finds." If the MD indicates a good target, they dig it. If it doesn't, they walk on. I don't consider this kind of LRL "success" worth considering. However, the LRLer isn't a liar, and I would not even hint that he is. But he probably is self-deceived.

As always, I am open to anyone showing me that I'm wrong. Anyone is welcomed to demonstrate an LRL to me, and they can demonstrate it in any way they wish. BUT... they will, at some point in the demonstration, have to succeed under randomized blind conditions if they want me to take the results seriously.

- Carl

[ivconic]

"Shovel locator" - that's what it is! :lol:

Nothing on those videos that can prove anything. Sorry. Better luck next time. For my account; Bionic is just another expensive FRAUD and nothing else.

BTW; what is the role of that funny LCD? Just to display few nonsences and nothing else??? To improve overall design? To make it look more "profy"?
B.S.!!! B.S.!!! B.S.!!!
Only naive idiot can waste money on such rubbish!

Since Carl is to cultural and becoming to say this, i will say it here, very loud;

LIARS, CHEATS, THIEFS, MOUNTEBANKS!!!

Shovel could be specially prepared for this video. Few batteries and small TX inside shovel tube (stick). Easy and sweet!

[ivconic]

"..I have always conceded that some people who use LRLs (or who just dowse) have actually found things..."

Like hell!
Blind hen will find more grains.
For over the 20 years i've been waiting JUST/AT LEAST one dowser to prove at least ONE and only sure find in front of my eyes! Nobody succeed so far! Neither one! Among hundreds i've met and tested so far. Neither one founded nothing so far. Nothing! All i heard were empty tales and sweet lies and nothing else.

[ivconic]

Carl your $25000 are SURE and SAFE forever! :lol::lol::lol:
Fort Knox!

[hung]

As always, I am open to anyone showing me that I'm wrong. - Carl

No, you're not. And never were.

Folks at TNET ferinstance, have proved you wrong many times.
Sooner or later you will eventually wake up. Not to the fact LRLs are a reality. You'll wake up to figure that your own attitudes towards this subject is way nonsense.
And outdated.

[Carl-NC]

Folks at TNET ferinstance, have proved you wrong many times.

They've disagreed with me, and they've posted lots of testimonials, but no "proof." Heck, I've personally MET some of the TNet denizens over the years, and every single one of them failed when they tried to demonstrate an LRL to me.

How can I possibly believe that LRLs work when every single demonstration (by others, not me!) has resulted in failure? And yet I'm still willing to let anyone try. I've offered to visit Dell, Mike-Mont, Art, and others. Sorry, South America is not on my list right now.

- Carl

[J_Player]

They've disagreed with me, and they've posted lots of testimonials, but no "proof." Heck, I've personally MET some of the TNet denizens over the years, and every single one of them failed when they tried to demonstrate an LRL to me.

How can I possibly believe that LRLs work when every single demonstration (by others, not me!) has resulted in failure? And yet I'm still willing to let anyone try. I've offered to visit Dell, Mike-Mont, Art, and others. Sorry, South America is not on my list right now.

- CarlWhat !!?
Are you sure every single demonstration of an LRL failed when TNEt LRL enthusiasts tried to demonstrate their LRLs working?

What does this mean? Is hung wrong when he says "they proved you wrong many times"?
How come these LRL enthusiasts didn't make any mention of how they failed at every single LRL demonstration?
Now I am starting to wonder....

If every single LRL demonstration you saw failed, but we hear no LRL enthusiast talking about all these failed demonstrations, then what are we hearing them reporting from their field trips? Are they coming home from a treasure expedition and bragging about treasures they found without mentioning how the LRL failed every time, causing them to dig hundreds of empty holes?
Did they finally put their LRL away and take out a metal detector to find the treasure they are bragging about?
Is this what these LRL enthusiasts mean when they say LRLs work?

Hmmm... Maybe I have the wrong idea. But no problem. If I am wrong, then any LRL enthusiast can easily prove it by showing their LRL recovering treasure live in front of skeptic witnesses like Carl. A video of their demonstration would prove that they are right and Carl is wrong.


Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

If I am wrong, then any LRL enthusiast can easily prove it by showing their LRL recovering treasure live in front of skeptic witnesses like Carl. A video of their demonstration would prove that they are right and Carl is wrong.


Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P.

What about the 2 videos of Esteban????
Why you don't take them as proof???;;;

Regards:)

[ivconic]

Video clips are not good proofs. We must realize that once for all. No matter what is presented on video.
Like Carl said; most convinced can be if see presentation in person. Even than; presentation must be done in fair and objective manner. Spectators must have chance to suggest the way of testing and presenting.
I have been attendant at many simillar presentations in the past. I've seen all the common tricks that people can perform during presentations. Usually, tricks are purposely performed to trick spectators. But also i've seen unpurposely tricks of the mind of performer. Some dowsers are stil not awared how easily they becoming victims of trick of the mind in those situations. In several cases i helped to few of them to finaly understand that it was plain trick of the mind and nothing else.
So...bottom line is fact that video clips are not proofs at all. Everything can be arranged to "prove" or "disaprove" some situation, in video clip.
More you talk and more you rely on clips - more questions and doubts you can expect.
.......
If you really have revolutionary design and you really are sure in its functionallity - than once for all accept regular ways to present it to public.
Organize public presentations and be ready to answer all the possible questions.

[Geo]

I have not so perfect LRL, so to make public presentations. But i believe that the Esreban's video is true, so it is more cheap for Carl to go a travel to Paraguay and see the Esteban's LRL to work than to pay 25000 $.
What are you think about it???

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.

What about the 2 videos of Esteban????
Why you don't take them as proof???;;;

Regards:)Hi Geo,
Esteban's video was not made showing his LRL recovering treasure live in front of skeptic witnesses like Carl, as I said in my post. Therefore he cannot make a video to show that he was right and Carl was wrong. He can only make a video to show what he wants to show.

I saw a video of stooge Curly squirt water out of his ears. This does not prove it really happened. Real proof would be when I see it with my own eyes live and can look from any angle I want to prove it is real. Proof for an LRL is also seen when you hold the LRL in your hand and watch it find treasure live. It is not when you see a video. Do you remember traveling from Greece to Portugal to see real proof instead of only watching videos?

Morgan's demonstration was only real proof for you and Morgan, because only you and Morgan were there holding the LRL in your hands live to test it. Other people who only watched the video saw proof that Morgan's demonstration convinced you it really works. People who only watched the video did not hold the LRL in their own hands and test it for themselves, and they did not prove for themselves that it really works. They only saw a video that proves you were convinced when you went to the demonstration.


Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi J_P.
I think that we say the "same". Where is the problem if Carl go to Paraguay to see with his eyes the LRL???? If Carl go and see the LRLs from Esteban, i don't need videos to believe him. If Carl will say don't work, for me will be the same as i had saw it.

Regards:)

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
I think that we say the "same". Where is the problem if Carl go to Paraguay to see with his eyes the LRL???? If Carl go and see the LRLs from Esteban, i don't need videos to believe him. If Carl will say don't work, for me will be the same as i had saw it.

Regards:)Hi Geo,
I would believe a report that Carl made also.
He is the strongest skeptic who wants to see real proof instead of videos.
So if he says it works, then I will believe he is telling a true story after making many tests.
There are only two problems of Carl going to Paraguay:

1. Carl's travel plans do not include going to places in South America for now. From Carl's post above:
"I've offered to visit Dell, Mike-Mont, Art, and others. Sorry, South America is not on my list right now".

2. Any plans to win $25,000 will not happen, because the prize contest was suspended some time ago:
http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=reward.dat
Until this prize is reinstated, any demonstrations are only done for the purpose of demonstration, not to win money.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
I would believe a report that Carl made also.
He is the strongest skeptic who wants to see real proof instead of videos.
So if he says it works, then I will believe he is telling a true story after making many tests.
There are only two problems of Carl going to Paraguay:

1. Carl's travel plans do not include going to places in South America for now. From Carl's post above:
"I've offered to visit Dell, Mike-Mont, Art, and others. Sorry, South America is not on my list right now".

2. Any plans to win $25,000 will not happen, because the prize contest was suspended some time ago:
http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=reward.dat
Until this prize is reinstated, any demonstrations are only done for the purpose of demonstration, not to win money.

Best wishes,
J_P


So...., what are we doing now:lol:

Regards:)

[J_Player]

So...., what are we doing now:lol:

Regards:)Hi Geo,
I don't know what you are doing, but I am watching a video of the Bionic 01 detecting a shovel at long range, and waiting to see what Putrechigi says after he sees it demonstrated to find buried gold instead of a different target located near the buried gold. :)


Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

I have not so perfect LRL, so to make public presentations. But i believe that the Esreban's video is true, so it is more cheap for Carl to go a travel to Paraguay and see the Esteban's LRL to work than to pay 25000 $.
What are you think about it???

I dont't have right to speak and decide in Carl's name, i am not his advocate too, but...don't you think that trip to Paraguay is a bit expensive and time consuming? It is not just a trip to next place, few miles away! And for what? Just to check some suspicious claims!? With respect to Esteban....but we do not know who is Esteban for real and what are his intentions. All we know is that Esteban is member here, pretty descent guy most of the time..except when LRL comes to be subject! :lol::razz:
God only knows what is in Esteban's head for real!? Or your? On my?
My point is that it is not piece of cake simply to catch a plane and go to Paraguay just like that!
Carl could face same situation as you faced visiting Morgan; previously good prepared conditions and field where tested LRL subject could show real "performances".
Real test would be to "surprise" Esteban (or any other LRL proponent) by visiting (or inviting) him to some neutral place where situation is unknown for both sides and unprepared by any side.
For example; Esteban and Carl both can come to third place and perform very objective test on unknown and uprepared soil and conditions.
Somewhere in the middle between Oregon and Paraguay. Fair enough.

[ivconic]

Ok here are calculations! :razz::lol::p

Straight air distance between Sweet Home (OR) and Asuncion (Paraguay) is approx 6.300 miles (10.150 km). So..Carl and Esteban should meet in the middle....somewhere between Managua and San Jose. Fair enough!
Do we have some member there? Between Managua (Nicaragua) and San Jose (Costa Rica)? Some descent member to be third person and to rush and host those guys?
C'mon!

[Geo]

I dont't have right to speak and decide in Carl's name, i am not his advocate too, but...don't you think that trip to Paraguay is a bit expensive and time consuming? It is not just a trip to next place, few miles away! And for what? Just to check some suspicious claims!? With respect to Esteban....but we do not know who is Esteban for real and what are his intentions. All we know is that Esteban is member here, pretty descent guy most of the time..except when LRL comes to be subject! :lol::razz:
God only knows what is in Esteban's head for real!? Or your? On my?
My point is that it is not piece of cake simply to catch a plane and go to Paraguay just like that!
Carl could face same situation as you faced visiting Morgan; previously good prepared conditions and field where tested LRL subject could show real "performances".
Real test would be to "surprise" Esteban (or any other LRL proponent) by visiting (or inviting) him to some neutral place where situation is unknown for both sides and unprepared by any side.
For example; Esteban and Carl both can come to third place and perform very objective test on unknown and uprepared soil and conditions.
Somewhere in the middle between Oregon and Paraguay. Fair enough.

I don't agree with "both can come to third place "...
As you know i do not sell detectors or LRLs so i am interesting only for the true and nothing else. So i would like to see a test at Paraguay where Esteban shows a lrl to work (at conditions of Paraguay), and why not after it at a third place as you wrote....
I saw LRLs to work, so i take this position!!!. But LRLs don't work so good and every time as metal detectors works, so this is the reason that i want to see test at more places.... to understand what is happening.

[ivconic]

Ha! Weak argument!

White's DFX (Oregon,USA) works perfect here in Sokobanja (Serbia) !!!
Minelab Explorer SE (Australia) works perfect here in Sokobanja (Serbia)!!!
Cscope 1220B (UK) works perfect here in Sokobanja (Serbia)!!!
.....
Do you need more arguments?

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
I don't know what you are doing, but I am watching a video of the Bionic 01 detecting a shovel at long range, and waiting to see what Putrechigi says after he sees it demonstrated to find buried gold instead of a different target located near the buried gold. :)


Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P.
I wrote my position with my experience from Bionic Alfa. I am not sure about Bionic01, but the Japan laser that i saw, worked very easy compared to Bionic. It did not like the beam to be exactly on the object, but if the "line" was up of the object then you had a strong beep.

Regards:)

[Geo]

Ha! Weak argument!

White's DFX (Oregon,USA) works perfect here in Sokobanja (Serbia) !!!
Minelab Explorer SE (Australia) works perfect here in Sokobanja (Serbia)!!!
Cscope 1220B (UK) works perfect here in Sokobanja (Serbia)!!!
.....
Do you need more arguments?



somewhere you tangled them

[ivconic]

"....But LRLs don't work so good and every time as metal detectors works, so this is the reason that i want to see test at more places.... to understand what is happening...."

LRLs don't work at all, that's the problem.

What is happening..? Many things are hapening, most of all is trick of the mind. LRL's like PD pistol and simillar are "receiving" all the possible hums, mums and interferences, radio waves etc...etc... You may say that PD pistol was "selective" than, when you tested it. It beeped only in one direction. I agree. It's musty design offers enough adjustments to prevent all arround reception. Use of ferrite antena and conventional search coil and by adjusting it can preserve certain "selectivity", so it can beep only to one direction. I put many remarks on videos you recorded there. I don't want to repeat myself. But it is obvious that PD can not detect nothing 20-30cm away from search coil surface. "Detection" we saw on those videos is fake.
It was just simple directional respond to some distant signal, nothing else.
Same thing with Zahori...it responds to power lines at more distance than PD. I "detected" HV power line at 120 meters with my latest Zahori. But i was not fooled to beleive that it is detecting something passive and burried into soil.
And Zahori also showed perfect directional sensitivity. I could record video clip also, with claims that Zahori detects some ...ring or coin. I could place that ring or coin in direction to power line and swinging with Zahori i could show and "prove" real detection in front of the camera.
Same thing with various Esteban's IR,FM,AM,VHF,UHF,LF...etc...etc LRL devices, he already presented here on these forums.
It doesn't really matter which method person will use to make such LRL detector. In all cases it is sensitivity on (and detection of) some interference, some field, some hum, mum or radio wave. In all cases! I guarantee!
No matter if IR was used or FM or whatever...same principle either.
Basically those are always based on some ultra high impendance inputs, pretty sensitive even to smallest charge. The rest of job at such devices is just how to "chasten" those wild signals and how to make device directionaly sensitive.....end of a story, end of a secret. Big deal!
If i was there with you i would take PD from Morgan's hands and i would walk with it far away from Morgan's place and search for any other "signal". Each eventuall signal i would try to explore and distinguish it's source.
Pitty...i couldn't afford to come with you. My problem, not your.

[Esteban]

Video clips are not good proofs. We must realize that once for all. No matter what is presented on video.
Like Carl said; most convinced can be if see presentation in person. Even than; presentation must be done in fair and objective manner. Spectators must have chance to suggest the way of testing and presenting.
I have been attendant at many simillar presentations in the past. I've seen all the common tricks that people can perform during presentations. Usually, tricks are purposely performed to trick spectators. But also i've seen unpurposely tricks of the mind of performer. Some dowsers are stil not awared how easily they becoming victims of trick of the mind in those situations. In several cases i helped to few of them to finaly understand that it was plain trick of the mind and nothing else.
So...bottom line is fact that video clips are not proofs at all. Everything can be arranged to "prove" or "disaprove" some situation, in video clip.
More you talk and more you rely on clips - more questions and doubts you can expect.
.......
If you really have revolutionary design and you really are sure in its functionallity - than once for all accept regular ways to present it to public.
Organize public presentations and be ready to answer all the possible questions.

No trick has been done! This will be against only me... :)

[Esteban]

In some part of private RS forum I invite the members for to travel to Mexico for to meet with Mr. Alonso and see the electronic LRL in action in real field. Nobody respond... Mexico is near USA. Nobody has interest... maybe. :shrug:

[Carl-NC]

What !!?
Are you sure every single demonstration of an LRL failed when TNEt LRL enthusiasts tried to demonstrate their LRLs working?

What does this mean? Is hung wrong when he says "they proved you wrong many times"?
How come these LRL enthusiasts didn't make any mention of how they failed at every single LRL demonstration?
Now I am starting to wonder....


I've witnessed and tested a number of people, including a few who have, at one time or another, been part of the TNet LRL forum. None of those people hang out there now, have no idea why.

I think Hung is trying to argue that they've "proved me wrong" with their words and testimonials. Probably in the same way that Hung has proven the operation of Mineoro LRLs with all the gold he has recovered with them.

But i believe that the Esreban's video is true, so it is more cheap for Carl to go a travel to Paraguay and see the Esteban's LRL to work than to pay 25000 $.


Lots and lots of people claim to have a "really works" LRL, or claim to be proficient dowsers. Being skeptical of these claims, I get a lot of flack from some people for not being willing to visit each and every claimant so they can prove me wrong. But I just can't afford to travel to each and every wannabedowser. That's why, when I created my challenge prize, I limited it to known manufacturers.

Of everyone I know of dabbling in LRLs, Esteban is the one who intrigues me the most. I would like to meet up with him and see what he has. I can't do it this year for certain, but maybe 2011 will be a little kinder.

- Carl

[detectoman]

hola esteban, mira yo te agradezco tu invitacion como cuando dijistes que alonso estaria en veracruz, pero mira yo tengo otras prioridades y no estoy en condiciones de ir, pues debo dedicar mi tiempo a acciones alturistas, a luchar contra el calentamiento global, y bueno, no puedo aunque si me gustaria, pero de todos modos yo no necesito comprobaciones de esto, se que funciona, y me basta!, y bueno no es la ocasion, pero te repito mis agradecimientos por tu invitacion, otra vez sera, ahora hay otras prioridades, ademas todo eso representaria gastos y tiempo invertido y alejarse de la familia, ahi estamos! muchas gracias

[Geo]

"....But LRLs don't work so good and every time as metal detectors works, so this is the reason that i want to see test at more places.... to understand what is happening...."

LRLs don't work at all, that's the problem.

What is happening..? Many things are hapening, most of all is trick of the mind. LRL's like PD pistol and simillar are "receiving" all the possible hums, mums and interferences, radio waves etc...etc... You may say that PD pistol was "selective" than, when you tested it. It beeped only in one direction. I agree. It's musty design offers enough adjustments to prevent all arround reception. Use of ferrite antena and conventional search coil and by adjusting it can preserve certain "selectivity", so it can beep only to one direction. I put many remarks on videos you recorded there. I don't want to repeat myself. But it is obvious that PD can not detect nothing 20-30cm away from search coil surface. "Detection" we saw on those videos is fake.
It was just simple directional respond to some distant signal, nothing else.
Same thing with Zahori...it responds to power lines at more distance than PD. I "detected" HV power line at 120 meters with my latest Zahori. But i was not fooled to beleive that it is detecting something passive and burried into soil.
And Zahori also showed perfect directional sensitivity. I could record video clip also, with claims that Zahori detects some ...ring or coin. I could place that ring or coin in direction to power line and swinging with Zahori i could show and "prove" real detection in front of the camera.
Same thing with various Esteban's IR,FM,AM,VHF,UHF,LF...etc...etc LRL devices, he already presented here on these forums.
It doesn't really matter which method person will use to make such LRL detector. In all cases it is sensitivity on (and detection of) some interference, some field, some hum, mum or radio wave. In all cases! I guarantee!
No matter if IR was used or FM or whatever...same principle either.
Basically those are always based on some ultra high impendance inputs, pretty sensitive even to smallest charge. The rest of job at such devices is just how to "chasten" those wild signals and how to make device directionaly sensitive.....end of a story, end of a secret. Big deal!
If i was there with you i would take PD from Morgan's hands and i would walk with it far away from Morgan's place and search for any other "signal". Each eventuall signal i would try to explore and distinguish it's source.
Pitty...i couldn't afford to come with you. My problem, not your.







I don't agree. PD working to all directions. I don't remember if this is showing at video, but at second case (foil), it detected it from North to South from 3m distance and from the other directions from 1m.
Zahori and PD are not the same thing. I found two old buried objects with my PD, so i know for what i speak.
About Esteban.... i can't speak for him, He is Here......
I close this thread for PD, but because i want to be fair with Morgan, i must tell that Morgan told me to go next day at mountain for treasure hunting with PD and i did not went, because i saw what i wanted to saw.

[Geo]

Of everyone I know of dabbling in LRLs, Esteban is the one who intrigues me the most. I would like to meet up with him and see what he has. I can't do it this year for certain, but maybe 2011 will be a little kinder.

- Carl

I will wait!!!!!:)

[J_Player]

I don't agree. PD working to all directions. I don't remember if this is showing at video, but at second case (foil), it detected it from North to South from 3m distance and from the other directions from 1m.
Zahori and PD are not the same thing. I found two old buried objects with my PD, so i know for what i speak.
About Esteban.... i can't speak for him, He is Here......
I close this thread for PD, but because i want to be fair with Morgan, i must tell that Morgan told me to go next day at mountain for treasure hunting with PD and i did not went, because i saw what i wanted to saw.Hi Geo,
What you did is exactly what other people should do. You should go to see the machine working with your own eyes, and test it with your own hands. After you try it with your own hands, if you become convinced it is helping you to find treasure, then you should use it for finding treasure. It is not your job to convince other people. If others want proof, then they can try it with their own hands the same as you did. This is the only proof. No video can prove it will work for you on a treasure hunt the same as if you try it yourself.

You are correct. Nobody needs to speak for Esteban. I have no reason to believe he made false claims or fake videos. He is unlike other LRL enthusiasts. He has built more experimental LRLs than any other person I know of in this forum, with maybe you in second place for building a lot of different LRLs. This tells me that he and you are at least serious about your commitment to LRL experiments. There are others who also built LRLs here. In fact, Ivconic was the first person in Geotech I can remember posting a complete circuit for an LRL. (The problem with that design is it was good for locating static electricity, but not buried treasure). Maybe this is part of the reason why he is not a believer.

For Esteban, he has proved to himself and his friends that his LRLs work. But his talk and videos are not the same as seeing his LRLs locate treasure with your own hands. So they are not proof for other people who did not see. I would like to see his LRLs find treasure. If Alonso will be going to Veracruz in the future, then maybe I can go to Veracruz when he can make a demonstration. It depends a lot on scheduling. If Esteban wants people to see these LRLs work, then maybe he can tell when and where to go to see this demonstration. Actually, I would prefer to see Estaban's LRLs working. Maybe Esteban will be traveling to Mexico sometime in 2010?

Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

I don't agree. PD working to all directions. I don't remember if this is showing at video, but at second case (foil), it detected it from North to South from 3m distance and from the other directions from 1m.
Zahori and PD are not the same thing. I found two old buried objects with my PD, so i know for what i speak.
About Esteban.... i can't speak for him, He is Here......
I close this thread for PD, but because i want to be fair with Morgan, i must tell that Morgan told me to go next day at mountain for treasure hunting with PD and i did not went, because i saw what i wanted to saw.

Seems you didn't understand me. When i said "directional" i ment one direction at the time. As i remember (to lazy to watch those clips again) when Morgan located that Al paper, behavior of PD was "directional" which is good - not bad. PD cleary indicated direction where paper was located.
That's what i ment by "directional".
Of course Zahori and PD are not the same. I am not saying those were the same!!?
But if we take simplified and principal look at those 2 devices, those are based on same kind of functionality. High impendance inputs. This means those are very sensitive to any kind of charge.
Another huge difference ; at least Zahori is useable, PD is useless 100%.
Zahori was desinged back in '70. in Germany by E.E. and its initial role was to locate current leaks in power lines.
PD is B.S. based on obsolete metal detector design with addition of 100% nonsenced ferrite antena receiver.
Those are differences.
Geo, again, you may beleive what ever you want. Time will pass until you realize how wrong are you. That's your problem,not my.

[ivconic]

LRL idealists can become obsessive in time. More you experiment - more you have impression that "it is it". Terrible trick of the mind! Horrible! After years of practicing and experimenting with LRL man is completely lost. He lives and die in conviction that LRL is real thing but "only one step left to make it real".
I know few LRL'st who already aged and died in hard convictions that LRL is real thing. Only problem is that those actually never located NOTHING with their numerous LRL designs. I am not joking here at all. Take this very seriously. I just tried to give my humble contribution on these forums, hoping that it will have some influence and turn few people away from such stupid ideas. Life is short. Use it smarter. LRL (the way it is understood here) is 100% waste of time. Waste of time, energy and money.
I tried....have nothing to regret for.
Regards!

[WM6]

No trick has been done! This will be against only me... :)



Hi Esteban,

trick is that you alone are against yourself, but you do not notice about this.

You do not hiding the actual content of your comics design because of a trade secrets, but because you know that people are laughing, if you fully disclosed any of these phenomenal secret plans. By doing so, you only validate that they are what they are, only nonworking construction comics.

You do not need trick, no believers need trick to belive.

You need only dream and hope, nothing else.

Esteban you have unlimited right to your dream and hope, but please do not sell your dream and hope to others, because by this you only help to sell expensive and crappy mineoros like boxes to other naive dreamer.

[WM6]

LRL idealists can become obsessive in time. More you experiment - more you have impression that "it is it". Terrible trick of the mind! Horrible! After years of practicing and experimenting with LRL man is completely lost. He lives and die in conviction that LRL is real thing but "only one step left to make it real".
I know few LRL'st who already aged and died in hard convictions that LRL is real thing. Only problem is that those actually never located NOTHING with their numerous LRL designs. I am not joking here at all. Take this very seriously. I just tried to give my humble contribution on these forums, hoping that it will have some influence and turn few people away from such stupid ideas. Life is short. Use it smarter. LRL (the way it is understood here) is 100% waste of time. Waste of time, energy and money.
I tried....have nothing to regret for.
Regards!

Hi ivconic,

I am sure, if one here are open-minded, you are.

But please note that there is a barrier constructed of phenomenal phenomenon over which we ordinary skeptics can not see.

One must be believer that they get open sight to second dimension of live phenomenon.

[Esteban]

If Mr. Alonso travel again to Mexico, I'll inform you. I'll provide telephone number and other address infos for to meet with him and go in minitrip. He travel to Veracruz several times.

[Esteban]

I've witnessed and tested a number of people, including a few who have, at one time or another, been part of the TNet LRL forum. None of those people hang out there now, have no idea why.

I think Hung is trying to argue that they've "proved me wrong" with their words and testimonials. Probably in the same way that Hung has proven the operation of Mineoro LRLs with all the gold he has recovered with them.



Lots and lots of people claim to have a "really works" LRL, or claim to be proficient dowsers. Being skeptical of these claims, I get a lot of flack from some people for not being willing to visit each and every claimant so they can prove me wrong. But I just can't afford to travel to each and every wannabedowser. That's why, when I created my challenge prize, I limited it to known manufacturers.

Of everyone I know of dabbling in LRLs, Esteban is the one who intrigues me the most. I would like to meet up with him and see what he has. I can't do it this year for certain, but maybe 2011 will be a little kinder.

- Carl

The most important is to performed these tests not in my country... better in your territory. Somebody also suggest we plant the targets and beep remotely the pistol. :lol:

[Qiaozhi]

Zahori was desinged back in '70. in Germany by E.E. and its initial role was to locate current leaks in power lines.
According to the original article the Zahori was designed as an electronic version of a dowsing rod for finding underground water. In fact, the word "zahori" means "dowser". As a reminder, I have attached the article that I translated from Spanish into English.

[ivconic]

According to the original article the Zahori was designed as an electronic version of a dowsing rod for finding underground water. In fact, the word "zahori" means "dowser". As a reminder, I have attached the article that I translated from Spanish into English.

:lol::lol::lol:
No it is not true. That text was written much later by who knows who? Most probably some dowser.
I adopted also name "Zahori" to easilly talk with people here. But "Zahori" name was added much later....some 20 - 30 years later after original schematic was published. Ahhahahahah!
Even you Qiaozhi? Seems you are also confused with LRL mumbo jumbo empty talks!?
:lol::lol::lol:

[Qiaozhi]

:lol::lol::lol:
No it is not true. That text was written much later by who knows who? Most probably some dowser.
I adopted also name "Zahori" to easilly talk with people here. But "Zahori" name was added much later....some 20 - 30 years later after original schematic was published. Ahhahahahah!
Even you Qiaozhi? Seems you are also confused with LRL mumbo jumbo empty talks!?
:lol::lol::lol:
The Elektor article was published in October 1987. Therefore, if you saw this circuit in the 70s, perhaps the author adapted it to become an electronic dowsing rod. :shocked:

[ivconic]

The Elektor article was published in October 1987. Therefore, if you saw this circuit in the 70s, perhaps the author adapted it to become an electronic dowsing rod. :shocked:

Hey Qiaozhi i am very Sorry! I missinformed you and others in my posts regarding to Zahori's origin and history.
I just checked my docs and found out that i was wrong! :frown:
All the time i was thinking on something else pretty similar to Zahori.
S O R R Y !

[ivconic]

This provoked me to check some docs in details...

Personaly i doubt that German Elektor ever posted this article under "Zahori" name.
I think that spanish publisher took freedom to change original title to "Zahori electronico". Most probably the rest of text in article was changed also (to attract more attention or some other reason...?).
Would be nice to see original german Elektor from 10. 1987.

[sweatofglory]

LRL idealists can become obsessive in time. More you experiment - more you have impression that "it is it". Terrible trick of the mind! Horrible! After years of practicing and experimenting with LRL man is completely lost. He lives and die in conviction that LRL is real thing but "only one step left to make it real".
I know few LRL'st who already aged and died in hard convictions that LRL is real thing. Only problem is that those actually never located NOTHING with their numerous LRL designs. I am not joking here at all. Take this very seriously. I just tried to give my humble contribution on these forums, hoping that it will have some influence and turn few people away from such stupid ideas. Life is short. Use it smarter. LRL (the way it is understood here) is 100% waste of time. Waste of time, energy and money.
I tried....have nothing to regret for.
Regards!

Hi Ivconic,

Thanks for your concern. Next month, I will be testing my LRL using program that I had been installed in my laptop computer. If I could not find something of value, I guess, that is the time for me to discontinue my research & experiment and do something productive, instead of wasting my precious time in the fantasy world of LRL's.:):):)

[ivconic]

Hi Ivconic,

Thanks for your concern. Next month, I will be testing my LRL using program that I had been installed in my laptop computer. If I could not find something of value, I guess, that is the time for me to discontinue my research & experiment and do something productive, instead of wasting my precious time in the fantasy world of LRL's.:):):)

Cool! You better try to find a way how to use laptop in conjuction with some descent I/B design.
Use earphones output as part of TX stage (add stronger output on it) and use mic or line input as RX (also can add front end on it). Write softvare which will do some tasks:

* Simple signal generator, sinus, square, 2-20kHz, adjustable amplitude..
* Direct view (on monitor) and momentary controls over TX signal..
* RX signal analysis. Amplitude, phase, phase shifts...
* Presets with phase shifts..
* Various indications....VDI numbers, sounds, bells....

Regards!

[g-sani]

Nobody knows better than my pocket if LRLs work or not.
Well unless I am not in my trousers alone.:lol::lol::lol:

[Infamy]

The only LRL that I know works is the nose of a dog.

[WM6]

Would be nice to see original german Elektor from 10. 1987.



Hallo ivconic

Ist nicht zu finden in Oktober Heft:

www.elektor.de/Uploads/Files/InhaltAb1970.pdf (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/www.elektor.de/Uploads/Files/InhaltAb1970.pdf)

[Qiaozhi]

Hallo ivconic

Ist nicht zu finden in Oktober Heft:

www.elektor.de/Uploads/Files/InhaltAb1970.pdf (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/www.elektor.de/Uploads/Files/InhaltAb1970.pdf)
The link is broken. :frown:

[ivconic]

Hallo ivconic

Ist nicht zu finden in Oktober Heft:

www.elektor.de/Uploads/Files/InhaltAb1970.pdf (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/www.elektor.de/Uploads/Files/InhaltAb1970.pdf)

I wonder why? :lol::lol::lol:

[Fred]

It´s not broken just wrong,(look at it) here is the right one:

www.elektor.de/Uploads/Files/InhaltAb1970.pdf

[Geo]

Nobody knows better than my pocket if LRLs work or not.
Well unless I am not in my trousers alone.:lol::lol::lol:

Hi G-Sani.
Don't try to convince the other people!!!!!
J_P wrote it.... "It is not your job to convince other people".
But is it job of the other people to convince us that the LRL don't work????
Or the other people can say their opinion but we can't say our opinion.

Regards:)

[g-sani]

Hi Geo, sorry I cannot keep my mouth shut my friend.
You see when somebody tries to give us his valueable knowledge in a subject(LRL) that otherwise you need a lot of money to spend to understand things on yourself then you cannot come back to him saying that he was using remote controlled devices in his video to fool us.
Lets be fair and respect a few things.
Even if it is so I don't think this is the right behaviour anyway.:nono:

Hi J_P.
I wrote my position with my experience from Bionic Alfa. I am not sure about Bionic01, but the Japan laser that i saw, worked very easy compared to Bionic. It did not like the beam to be exactly on the object, but if the "line" was up of the object then you had a strong beep.

Regards:)

Can you tell me anything more about the Japaneese Laser that you have mentioned in your post above?
Is it something out in the market?Can I see it in internet?

Many regards
g-sani

[J_Player]

Hi G-Sani.
Don't try to convince the other people!!!!!
J_P wrote it.... "It is not your job to convince other people".
But is it job of the other people to convince us that the LRL don't work????
Or the other people can say their opinion but we can't say our opinion.

Regards:)Hi Geo,
I think you do not understand what I said. Here is the what I posted:
What you did is exactly what other people should do. You should go to see the machine working with your own eyes, and test it with your own hands. After you try it with your own hands, if you become convinced it is helping you to find treasure, then you should use it for finding treasure. It is not your job to convince other people. If others want proof, then they can try it with their own hands the same as you did. This is the only proof. No video can prove it will work for you on a treasure hunt the same as if you try it yourself. My meaning is you are not required convince people. It is the responsibility of each individual to find their own proof that they consider suitable to convince themselves. If you decide you want to convince people that something works or does not work, then you are free to speak as you please.

Anybody can post their opinion here. But I will not take posted opinions to be the same as proof I see with my own eyes and in my own hands... the same as you did not take it to be the same. :)

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

I wonder why? :lol::lol::lol:

Deutsche Ausgabe ist nicht immer (im Regel ueberhaupt nicht) das gleiche als other language edition.

In full year 1987 & 1988 German editions I can find only one similar article named: Kontaktlose Hochspannungskontrolle in Elektor Doppelheft 7/8 1988 (but no one word about dowsing or "Zahori").

Here photos phenomenon of the best "Zahori" schematic:

http://i19.servimg.com/u/f19/14/09/85/82/khsk10.jpg

[ivconic]

Yes i saw that one. Use of BF981 is most interesting to me there (not expected to see it in such design).

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
I think you do not understand what I said. Here is the what I posted:
My meaning is you are not required convince people. It is the responsibility of each individual to find their own proof that they consider suitable to convince themselves. If you decide you want to convince people that something works or does not work, then you are free to speak as you please.

Anybody can post their opinion here. But I will not take posted opinions to be the same as proof I see with my own eyes and in my own hands... the same as you did not take it to be the same. :)

Best wishes,
J_P


Hi J_P.
Sometimes we say some more words....



Regards:)

[Geo]

Hi Geo, sorry I cannot keep my mouth shut my friend.
You see when somebody tries to give us his valueable knowledge in a subject(LRL) that otherwise you need a lot of money to spend to understand things on yourself then you cannot come back to him saying that he was using remote controlled devices in his video to fool us.
Lets be fair and respect a few things.
Even if it is so I don't think this is the right behaviour anyway.:nono:



Can you tell me anything more about the Japaneese Laser that you have mentioned in your post above?
Is it something out in the market?Can I see it in internet?

Many regards
g-sani

Σου τηλ 3 φορες και δεν το σηκωσες (Τωρα στις γιορτες).
Ισχυει το παλιο σου κινητο??


Regards:)

[g-sani]

Σου τηλ 3 φορες και δεν το σηκωσες (Τωρα στις γιορτες).
Ισχυει το παλιο σου κινητο??


Regards:)

Nαι Γιωργο ισχυει.Πιθανως να το ειχα στο αθορυβο αν ημουν στη δουλεια η και μερικες φορες μπορει να μιλαω με καποιον και εσυ να μην το καταλαβαινεις οποτε μετα βλεπω αγνωστο νουμερο και υποθετω πως θα ξαναπαρουν.
Στειλε μου ενα μηνυμα με το δικο σου νουμερο στο κινητο μου.
Σου ξαναστελνω το δικο μου με πμ τωρα.

[Esteban]

Hi Ivconic,

Thanks for your concern. Next month, I will be testing my LRL using program that I had been installed in my laptop computer. If I could not find something of value, I guess, that is the time for me to discontinue my research & experiment and do something productive, instead of wasting my precious time in the fantasy world of LRL's.:):):)

Is not fantasy... but you can wasting also your time in other things...

[Esteban]

Popular Science Monthly, 1928

[Geo]

Hi Esteban.
Nice photo!!!
Can you attach some photos yet, especially for us the LRL believers :lol:

Regards:)

[Esteban]

Hi Esteban.
Nice photo!!!
Can you attach some photos yet, especially for us the LRL believers :lol:

Regards:)

The article refers was found with similar device treasure in Panama at 8 feet depth. Read since page 45.

http://books.google.com.py/books?id=EisDAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&lr=&rview=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

[Fred]

This is not esoteric LRL , it works on known and explained basis.
And yes, interesting picture.

[Esteban]

This is not esoteric LRL , it works on known and explained basis.
And yes, interesting picture.

Read complete here

http://books.google.com.py/books?id=EisDAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&lr=&rview=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Of course, also pistols are not esoteric. Or yes? :lol:

[Geo]

Read complete here

http://books.google.com.py/books?id=EisDAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&lr=&rview=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Of course, also pistols are not esoteric. Or yes? :lol:


Esteban, Thank you:)

[Fred]

Read complete here

http://books.google.com.py/books?id=EisDAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&lr=&rview=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Of course, also pistols are not esoteric. Or yes? :lol:
Until their principles is explained and demonstrated, i am afraid yes...

[WM6]

Of course, also pistols are not esoteric. Or yes? :lol:




Of course not. Pistols are not esoteric they are only comic design.

Esoteric is your way of use this nonworking boxes.

[J_Player]

Read complete here

http://books.google.com.py/books?id=EisDAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&lr=&rview=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Of course, also pistols are not esoteric. Or yes? :lol:

Originally posted by Fred
Until their principles is explained and demonstrated, i am afraid yes...Hi Esteban,
Fred is correct. The article you showed of using VLF radio transmitters and receivers to survey the ground for mineral anomalies are well known and are commonly used by geologists today. Hundreds of geologist and exploration companies make survey maps to plot the location of underground objects and anomalies using computer programs similar to Tim William's Geo-plotters. The properties of VLF radio waves penetrating the ground and returning signals detected with a loop antenna is very well known by geologists. There is nothing esoteric about these methods to detect anomalies under the ground.

The pistols you show use secret circuits to generate secret signals that detect unknown "phenomenal" entities that have never been demonstrated to exist in front of any peer who was permitted to take measurements of the unknown "phenomenon" and secret signals. For this reason, the pistols you are referring to fall into the category of "esoteric".

Best wishes,
J_P

[sweatofglory]

Is not fantasy... but you can wasting also your time in other things...

Thanks!:thumb:

[Esteban]

Hi Esteban,
Fred is correct. The article you showed of using VLF radio transmitters and receivers to survey the ground for mineral anomalies are well known and are commonly used by geologists today. Hundreds of geologist and exploration companies make survey maps to plot the location of underground objects and anomalies using computer programs similar to Tim William's Geo-plotters. The properties of VLF radio waves penetrating the ground and returning signals detected with a loop antenna is very well known by geologists. There is nothing esoteric about these methods to detect anomalies under the ground.

The pistols you show use secret circuits to generate secret signals that detect unknown "phenomenal" entities that have never been demonstrated to exist in front of any peer who was permitted to take measurements of the unknown "phenomenon" and secret signals. For this reason, the pistols you are referring to fall into the category of "esoteric".

Best wishes,
J_P

Only I share it... show was done 80 years ago... I know that many negates even the possibility of these radio waves for locating treasures.

Now inferences of esoterism is your "bonus"...

[J_Player]

Only I share it... show was done 80 years ago... I know that many negates even the possibility of these radio waves for locating treasures.

Now inferences of esoterism is your "bonus"...Hi Esteban,
Apparently you did not read my words or translate them correctly. I put them below again:
Fred is correct. The article you showed of using VLF radio transmitters and receivers to survey the ground for mineral anomalies are well known and are commonly used by geologists today. Hundreds of geologist and exploration companies make survey maps to plot the location of underground objects and anomalies using computer programs similar to Tim William's Geo-plotters. The properties of VLF radio waves penetrating the ground and returning signals detected with a loop antenna is very well known by geologists. There is nothing esoteric about these methods to detect anomalies under the ground.

The pistols you show use secret circuits to generate secret signals that detect unknown "phenomenal" entities that have never been demonstrated to exist in front of any peer who was permitted to take measurements of the unknown "phenomenon" and secret signals. For this reason, the pistols you are referring to fall into the category of "esoteric".

Best wishes,
J_PWhat I said is the article you show from years ago is not esoteric. It shows VLF methods to locate things under the ground that are well known and used by hundreds of geologists and exploration companies today as well.

But your pistols are esoteric, because they use circuits that are secret to locate unknown phenomenal entities.

The word "esoteric" in the English language means:
private; secret; confidential; and
understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest;

This word describes your pistols.
Your pistols are not the same as VLF surveying that the article from Popular Science shows. VLF surveying does not use pistols with secret circuits that make beeps when the "phenomenon" is detected. And VLF surveying is not secret technology. The same VLF loop detectors shown in the Popular Science article were further developed by mining interests to become standard equipment used to survey subsurface anomalies today. VLF surveying is not private, secret, confidential, or understood only by a select few. It is well understood by mining engineers, geologists and engineers who work with RF. Look here if you think the method shown in Popular Science is a lost art that nobody uses today: http://www.subsurfacesurveys.com/vlf.htm

I did not make a bonus inference of esoteric. I stated a fact.
When Fred stated the fact that your pistols are esoteric, I confirmed that Fred is correct. It is a fact, not an inference.
Fred is correct that secret pistols reserved for a few are esoteric. This is the meaning of the word.

I also agree the photos you posted are interesting.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Hi Esteban,

The word "esoteric" in the English language means:
private; secret; confidential; and
understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest;

Best wishes,
J_P

The word "esoteric" also means:

"having to do with concepts that are highly theoretical"

The word "theoretical" means:

1. of, pertaining to, or consisting in theory; not practical (distinguished from applied ).
2. existing only in theory; hypothetical.
3. given to, forming, or dealing with theories; speculative.

I often use the word esoteric in reference to basic LRL concepts, and I always equate it to the meanings I have called out here. Someone else may think differently, and that's fine.

[Esteban]

Hi Esteban,
Apparently you did not read my words or translate them correctly. I put them below again:
What I said is the article you show from years ago is not esoteric. It shows VLF methods to locate things under the ground that are well known and used by hundreds of geologists and exploration companies today as well.

But your pistols are esoteric, because they use circuits that are secret to locate unknown phenomenal entities.

The word "esoteric" in the English language means:
private; secret; confidential; and
understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest;

This word describes your pistols.
Your pistols are not the same as VLF surveying that the article from Popular Science shows. VLF surveying does not use pistols with secret circuits that make beeps when the "phenomenon" is detected. And VLF surveying is not secret technology. The same VLF loop detectors shown in the Popular Science article were further developed by mining interests to become standard equipment used to survey subsurface anomalies today. VLF surveying is not private, secret, confidential, or understood only by a select few. It is well understood by mining engineers, geologists and engineers who work with RF. Look here if you think the method shown in Popular Science is a lost art that nobody uses today: http://www.subsurfacesurveys.com/vlf.htm

I did not make a bonus inference of esoteric. I stated a fact.
When Fred stated the fact that your pistols are esoteric, I confirmed that Fred is correct. It is a fact, not an inference.
Fred is correct that secret pistols reserved for a few are esoteric. This is the meaning of the word.

I also agree the photos you posted are interesting.

Best wishes,
J_P

Or maybe hermetic? :lol:

[Esteban]

Hi Esteban,
Fred is correct. The article you showed of using VLF radio transmitters and receivers to survey the ground for mineral anomalies are well known and are commonly used by geologists today. Hundreds of geologist and exploration companies make survey maps to plot the location of underground objects and anomalies using computer programs similar to Tim William's Geo-plotters. The properties of VLF radio waves penetrating the ground and returning signals detected with a loop antenna is very well known by geologists. There is nothing esoteric about these methods to detect anomalies under the ground.

The pistols you show use secret circuits to generate secret signals that detect unknown "phenomenal" entities that have never been demonstrated to exist in front of any peer who was permitted to take measurements of the unknown "phenomenon" and secret signals. For this reason, the pistols you are referring to fall into the category of "esoteric".

Best wishes,
J_P

Most pistols doesn't generate signals, just receive it... no secrets signals here... You want me to appear like author of these words... Oh!!! Maybe IR, but you know the frequency used...

Ghost? :lol:

[WM6]

Or maybe hermetic? :lol:



Because humidity harm the pistol, it can not be hermetic.

[Geo]

Because humidity harm the pistol, it can not be hermetic.

Pistols have not problem with humidity.
Maybe all the other have...... (Ib...PI ...etc)
So if the terrain has humidity... VLF have problem to detect more than 20cm, if there are ceramics most Pi don't work and VLF have the half depth, if near the coins there are iron objects vlf don't detect the coins, if... if ... if....:lol::lol::lol:.
So, you have problem with pistols that work and not with all the other that theoretically worked but at practice don't work:lol:.

Regards:)

[J_Player]

Most pistols doesn't generate signals, just receive it... no secrets signals here... You want me to appear like author of these words... Oh!!! Maybe IR, but you know the frequency used...

Ghost? :lol:There is no possibility anyone will think you authored the words in my post. Everybody knows I am the author of the words in my post because they are clearly labeled with my screen name on them. But the idea of your pistols being esoteric did not come from me. You were the originator of the concept when you asked if Fred if they are esoteric here : http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=104409&postcount=176 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=104409&postcount=176)
Of course, also pistols are not esoteric. Or yes? :lol:And it was Fred who answered your question, saying they are esoteric.
Are you still claiming your pistols are not esoteric?
Doesn't the English word esoteric have the same meaning as "esotérica" in Spanish?

My claim is your pistols are esoteric, and Fred is correct.
As far as I know, the pistols you are referring to generate secret signals and locate unknown "phenonenal" entities. If you are now claiming most of your pistols do not, then this is news to me. But it is not news to me that your pistols are esoteric. Everybody who reads this forum knows this is a fact because they have learned you will not publish your circuits or describe the details of how to build a pistol to work as you claim it works. The only exception I can think of is the circuit you posted of a Zahori. Most builders say it does not work as you claim. Even Morgan says it cannot work without adding a missing circuit component that was not shown.

Readers of this forum learned you will not tell what circuits and are in your pistols except to show incomplete circuits, and tiny circuit drawings that cannot be read. And you will not tell exactly what physical phenomenon your pistols are detecting. You even admitted that you don't know what physical phenomenon, you are just assuming they are detecting a particular physical phenomenon. We know the pistols you show in your photos are esoteric also because they are not known as methods of VLF surveying in the mining industry or known by the industry engineers who use the VLF surveying techniques that you showed in the Popular Science article. Instead your pistols are reserved for a select few, with the circuitry hidden from public view.

Do you still claim your pistols are not esoteric?

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

So, you have problem with pistols that work and not with all the other that theoretically worked but at practice don't work:lol:.



Geo, you can be sure that I will be first happy buyer of first working LRL as claimed from producer.


Unfortunately still waiting on it. Seems hopeless.

[Esteban]

There is no possibility anyone will think you authored the words in my post. Everybody knows I am the author of the words in my post because they are clearly labeled with my screen name on them. But the idea of your pistols being esoteric did not come from me. You were the originator of the concept when you asked if Fred if they are esoteric here : http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=104409&postcount=176 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=104409&postcount=176)
And it was Fred who answered your question, saying they are esoteric.
Are you still claiming your pistols are not esoteric?
Doesn't the English word esoteric have the same meaning as "esotérica" in Spanish?

My claim is your pistols are esoteric, and Fred is correct.
As far as I know, the pistols you are referring to generate secret signals and locate unknown "phenonenal" entities. If you are now claiming most of your pistols do not, then this is news to me. But it is not news to me that your pistols are esoteric. Everybody who reads this forum knows this is a fact because they have learned you will not publish your circuits or describe the details of how to build a pistol to work as you claim it works. The only exception I can think of is the circuit you posted of a Zahori. Most builders say it does not work as you claim.

Readers of this forum learned you will not tell what circuits and are in your pistols except to show tiny circuit drawings that cannot be read, and you will not tell exactly what physical phenomenon your pistols are detecting. You even admitted that you don't know what physical phenomenon, your are just assuming. We know the pistols you show in your photos are esoteric also because they are not known as modern methods of VLF surveying in the mining industry or known by the industry engineers who use VLF surveying techniques that you showed in the Popular Science article. Instead your pistols are reserved for a select few, with the circuitry hidden from public view.

Do you still claim your pistols are not esoteric?

Best wishes,
J_P

Is the VLF surveying isoteric because they don't show his circuits? Do you can show us such circuits or similar? Maybe the only you can show me is block diagram.

Also my receiver pistol can be VLF when is tuned in very low frequency, or LF when is tuned in 80 Khz, for example. Known methods. So, is not esoteric.

[WM6]

Also my receiver pistol can be VLF when is tuned in very low frequency, or LF when is tuned in 80 Khz, for example. So, is not esoteric.



Things cannot be esoteric. Esoteric can be only way of things use.

If you use scientific calculator as calculator- there is nothing esoteric, but if you use scientific calculator as un-evidently working LRL you are doing something esoteric.

But secret, un-explained and scientifically un-evidented phenomenon are fully esoteric.

[Geo]

Geo, you can be sure that I will be first happy buyer of first working LRL as claimed from producer.


Unfortunately still waiting on it. Seems hopeless.


Who told you that i sell LRLs???
Anything i make, i make it for myself:)

[WM6]

Who told you that i sell LRLs???
Anything i make, i make it for myself:)



Geo we have language problem, I am not told that you sell something like LRL.

There are enough producer of nonworking LRLs that was mentioned.

You are on right way, I hope.

[J_Player]

Is the VLF surveying isoteric because they don't show his circuits? Do you can show us such circuits or similar? Maybe the only you can show me is block diagram.

Also my receiver pistol can be VLF when is tuned in very low frequency, or LF when is tuned in 80 Khz, for example. Known methods. So, is not esoteric.VLF surveying is not esoteric because it is used as a standard tool to survey below the ground by hundreds of geologists, engineers and ;exploration companies all over the world to locate subterranean anomalies for their clients. This is a standard known science used in conjunction with other standard known sciences such as resistivity, induced polarization magnetic surveys, and numerous other standard gelological methods. The VLF equipment used by geologists is manufactured and sold as a standard item that can be bought from any of several manufacturers, just as broadcast radio receivers can be bought from manufacturers by consumers. And this field is not esoteric. The methods are well documented in books that anyone can read to see for themselves. Here is one of hundreds of books you could read to see it is not a secret hidden science: http://books.google.com/books?id=FmorIbn6a74C&pg=PA220&lpg=PA220&dq=vlf+survey+receiver&source=bl&ots=ifXgcsMNZA&sig=l6HrkM5LUMspOiJYDpQ0bFBvRuw&hl=en&ei=Fz5PS6T7Lo-SsgOY-LjYBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=vlf%20survey%20receiver&f=false


There is nothing esoteric about VLF equipment used in standard gelogical VLF surveys that are done today. But there is something very esoteric about using vlf equipment with secret circuits to make beeps at unknown phenomena. In fact, none of the people who conduct standard VLF geological surveys use any secret circuits that make beeps at unknown phenomenon when they conduct their surveys.

Vlf equipment used for these surveys is very well understood and has been used for years. Anyone who knows how to build an am broadcast radio receiver can easily build a VLF receiver. If they are not capable of it, then they can buy VLF equipment from the manufacturers who sell it to the exploration companies and the geologists. They do not need to spend their years reading forums only to find they will never learn of a way to get a working VLF receiver that they can use for making surveys. They will find there are plenty of books that show proven VLF circuits, and plenty of people who have built and used them successfully all over the world.

In case you don't think there are circuit diagrams to build VLF receivers, there are many online and similar. Here are some circuits to build VLF receivers that use a dipole antenna that use a loop antenna: http://www.home.pon.net/785/equipment/build_your_own.htm

But who cares if you can find VLF circuits online? Vlf receivers have nothing to do with esoteric technology. VLF receivers have never been esoteric when used for conducting surveys of the ground for subsurface anomalies. What is esoteric is pistols that use secret circuits that make beeps at unknown phenomena, and are kept private, secret, and confidential. This is exactly what distinguishes your pistols from the standard VLF survey equipment that began with the images shown in the Popular Science article.

Do you still want people to believe your pistols are not esoteric?
Do you think I am wrong about what the meaning of esoteric is and everyone else agrees your pistols are not esoteric?
Maybe you should ask Fred if he changed his mind after hearing your new explanation of what esoteric means.
Do you think he agrees your pistols are no longer esoteric?
Do you think anyone believes secret circuits in pistols understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest are not esoteric?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Geo we have language problem, I am not told that you sell something like LRL.

There are enough producer of nonworking LRLs that was mentioned.

You are on right way, I hope.


ΟΚ!!!:)

[Geo]

Hi
I have not problem if Pistols have esoteric technology or not. I know that Pistols detects the "phenomenon", and "phenomenon" is very strong!!!!.
If you will understand this, then you will understand how the Pistols working. If some people will spend, for understanding how pistols working, the half time than they spend to tell that Pistols don't work, then they will construct a good Pistol.
But if they will construct a Pistol, Then what they will have to say!!!:lol::lol:
So the things are simple!!! No "phenomenon", no "Pistols"......:lol::lol::lol:

Regards:)

[J_Player]

Hi
I have not problem if Pistols have esoteric technology or not. I know that Pistols detects the "phenomenon", and "phenomenon" is very strong!!!!.
If you will understand this, then you will understand how the Pistols working. If some people will spend, for understanding how pistols working, the half time than they spend to tell that Pistols don't work, then they will construct a good Pistol.
But if they will construct a Pistol, Then what they will have to say!!!:lol::lol:
So the things are simple!!! No "phenomenon", no "Pistols"......:lol::lol::lol:

Regards:)Hi Geo,
I agree that I have no problem if pistols are esoteric technology or not. I don't know why Esteban cares it they are esoteric or not either. There are many popular esoteric subjects today, and finding unknown phenomena is one of them. This makes for some very interesting experiments. I can see nothing wrong with that. But it is hard to understand why anyone would want to try to convince people that secret circuits for this poorly understood "phenomenon" are not esoteric.

Best of luck in finding more ancient treasures with your pistols :)
J_P

[WM6]

Hi
I have not problem if Pistols have esoteric technology or not. I know that Pistols detects the "phenomenon", and "phenomenon" is very strong!!!!.
If you will understand this, then you will understand how the Pistols working. If some people will spend, for understanding how pistols working, the half time than they spend to tell that Pistols don't work, then they will construct a good Pistol.
But if they will construct a Pistol, Then what they will have to say!!!:lol::lol:
So the things are simple!!! No "phenomenon", no "Pistols"......:lol::lol::lol:

Regards:)

Geo, LRL circuit oscillating due his weak stability or excessive sensitivity to different external influences we cannot treated as phenomenon.

You can put such circuit in pistol, gun or howitzer you still cannot detect nothing like gold in soil.

You can use instead simple dowsing rod - it is cheaper and work better for experienced dowser.

[Fred]

If some people will spend, for understanding how pistols working, the half time than they spend to tell that Pistols don't work, then they will construct a good Pistol.
Hi Geo,
don´t forget we have reverse-engineered and built the PD , we spent a lot of time in it and we could not find any special detection effect.

Of course there is always more tests that could have been done, but the amount of time we can waste is not unlimited.
From what i could understand, believing the (serious) people that have tested the PD (you Esteban and Morgan), the effect is strong but unreliable, thus useless.

[Geo]

Geo, LRL circuit oscillating due his weak stability or excessive sensitivity to different external influences we cannot treated as phenomenon.

You can put such circuit in pistol, gun or howitzer you still cannot detect nothing like gold in soil.

You can use instead simple dowsing rod - it is cheaper and work better for experienced dowser.

Hi WM6.
We speak again different language. You don't understand me!!!!!.
You must understand that the basic problem is the "phenomenon" and not the Pistol or "gun" or "bomb"!!!. If there is the "phenomenon" then it is very easy to detect it!!!!.
For example .... before some months, a "friend" found a cupreous statue 25 kgr weight very easy from 30m distance and 1.5 m depth, with a very simple detector like pistol......
He used a Tesoro to pinpoint the item but without results (Tesoro is only for coins at 20cm depth), it had not the ability to locate it. So he took a JCB machine and after 3 minutes he had the cupreous statue out.


Regards

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
don´t forget we have reverse-engineered and built the PD , we spent a lot of time in it and we could not find any special detection effect.

Of course there is always more tests that could have been done, but the amount of time we can waste is not unlimited.
From what i could understand, believing the (serious) people that have tested the PD (you Esteban and Morgan), the effect is strong but unreliable, thus useless.


Hi Fred.
I can't forget the time that we spend at Alonso's PD:lol:.
I wrote and other times.... The big problem was the bad "phenomenon" and not the PD.....
Yes, the Alonso's PD is not so useful to me, but my PD is a little better, don't need so critical adjustment (i modified it). But there are better LRLs that make fantastic job. I will write again....
For a person that likes the coin hunting the PD is useless, but for a person that look for big treasures the LRL is Must.

Regards:)

[J_Player]

Hi Fred.
I can't forget the time that we spend at Alonso's PD:lol:.
I wrote and other times.... The big problem was the bad "phenomenon" and not the PD.....
Yes, the Alonso's PD is not so useful to me, but my PD is a little better, don't need so critical adjustment (i modified it). But there are better LRLs that make fantastic job. I will write again....
For a person that likes the coin hunting the PD is useless, but for a person that look for big treasures the LRL is Must.

Regards:)Hi Geo,
Did you ever check to see how far the PD can locate a shovel?

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

You don't understand me!!!!!.
You must understand that the basic problem is the "phenomenon" and not the Pistol or "gun" or "bomb"!!!. If there is the "phenomenon" then it is very easy to detect it!!!!.



Hi Geo

Maybe the problem is not that I dont understand you.

Main problem is that such "phenomenon" disappear on regulary basis.

In other words unknown apparently phenomenon, accidentally encountered, not documented and not explained, are not existend, and can be anything.

Presumptions in phenomenon existence are not a proof that they really exist.

If one believe in presumptions, because they need to believe, than this is only one religion more in this world.

[hung]

Hi Geo,
Did you ever check to see how far the PD can locate a shovel?

Best wishes,
J_P
:lol::lol::lol:

Hey Geo, before you feel like answering, let this poor soul complete high school in long range detection first to at least understand the basis of this subject and know for instance that if a system is properly built and tuned, the iron is not an issue...
Jeez... how many more eons will this have to be repeated?


PS. Since we are on this and to prevent this nonsense question to be repeated, Marco in one of the youtube videos answer this very same question
at ...youtube! Guessed right.
And among other things he simply stated the reason why he placed the shovel and how the detector has no problem in picking the ring even if he moves the... yes, the shovel out.

Going to the field now...
See you later.

[WM6]

:lol::lol::lol:

Going to the field now...



Hi hung, be carefull in the field, you can easily debunker yourself there.

[J_Player]

Hi hung, be carefull in the field, you can easily debunker yourself there.hung already has debunkered himself here. You can read all the complaints about the fake videos he sent here to try to prove he built a working LRL, as well as fake information he provided about science, and facts he provided that were shown to be not true.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

hung already has debunkered himself here. You can read all the complaints about the fake videos he sent here to try to prove he built a working LRL, as well as fake information he provided about science, and facts he provided that were shown to be not true.

Best wishes,
J_P

However, the fact that hung intends to go in the field is very encouraging, because: religion is a good one when you practise it and not when you fighting for it, it makes it easier for others to live with you.

[Fred]

Jeez... how many more eons will this have to be repeated?
You misspelled it, it´s "ions" :lol:

Hung, be careful, your ring is spinning faster.

[Esteban]

VLF surveying is not esoteric because it is used as a standard tool to survey below the ground by hundreds of geologists, engineers and ;exploration companies all over the world to locate subterranean anomalies for their clients. This is a standard known science used in conjunction with other standard known sciences such as resistivity, induced polarization magnetic surveys, and numerous other standard gelological methods. The VLF equipment used by geologists is manufactured and sold as a standard item that can be bought from any of several manufacturers, just as broadcast radio receivers can be bought from manufacturers by consumers. And this field is not esoteric. The methods are well documented in books that anyone can read to see for themselves. Here is one of hundreds of books you could read to see it is not a secret hidden science: http://books.google.com/books?id=FmorIbn6a74C&pg=PA220&lpg=PA220&dq=vlf+survey+receiver&source=bl&ots=ifXgcsMNZA&sig=l6HrkM5LUMspOiJYDpQ0bFBvRuw&hl=en&ei=Fz5PS6T7Lo-SsgOY-LjYBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=vlf%20survey%20receiver&f=false


There is nothing esoteric about VLF equipment used in standard gelogical VLF surveys that are done today. But there is something very esoteric about using vlf equipment with secret circuits to make beeps at unknown phenomena. In fact, none of the people who conduct standard VLF geological surveys use any secret circuits that make beeps at unknown phenomenon when they conduct their surveys.

Vlf equipment used for these surveys is very well understood and has been used for years. Anyone who knows how to build an am broadcast radio receiver can easily build a VLF receiver. If they are not capable of it, then they can buy VLF equipment from the manufacturers who sell it to the exploration companies and the geologists. They do not need to spend their years reading forums only to find they will never learn of a way to get a working VLF receiver that they can use for making surveys. They will find there are plenty of books that show proven VLF circuits, and plenty of people who have built and used them successfully all over the world.

In case you don't think there are circuit diagrams to build VLF receivers, there are many online and similar. Here are some circuits to build VLF receivers that use a dipole antenna that use a loop antenna: http://www.home.pon.net/785/equipment/build_your_own.htm

But who cares if you can find VLF circuits online? Vlf receivers have nothing to do with esoteric technology. VLF receivers have never been esoteric when used for conducting surveys of the ground for subsurface anomalies. What is esoteric is pistols that use secret circuits that make beeps at unknown phenomena, and are kept private, secret, and confidential. This is exactly what distinguishes your pistols from the standard VLF survey equipment that began with the images shown in the Popular Science article.

Do you still want people to believe your pistols are not esoteric?
Do you think I am wrong about what the meaning of esoteric is and everyone else agrees your pistols are not esoteric?
Maybe you should ask Fred if he changed his mind after hearing your new explanation of what esoteric means.
Do you think he agrees your pistols are no longer esoteric?
Do you think anyone believes secret circuits in pistols understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest are not esoteric?

Best wishes,
J_P

Pistols also can use common LF or VLF circuits. These circuits are not secret or esoteric. You need some "combinations" of parts as beeps generator (you know how can build), so nothing is esoteric (the word used for this case is "secret").

[Geo]

[quote = J_Player? 104647] Hi Geo,
Did you ever check to see how far the PD can locate a shovel?

Best wishes,J_P [/ quote]

Hi J_P.
What are you mean????
As topic (normal MD) or as LRL???

Regards:)

[Esteban]

Do you see, Geo? When you wish to explain your experience, others start mockering, so... they don't need infos, don't need circuits. They want circus! :nono:

[Geo]

Hi Geo

Maybe the problem is not that I dont understand you.

Main problem is that such "phenomenon" disappear on regulary basis.

In other words unknown apparently phenomenon, accidentally encountered, not documented and not explained, are not existend, and can be anything.

Presumptions in phenomenon existence are not a proof that they really exist.

If one believe in presumptions, because they need to believe, than this is only one religion more in this world.

Hi WM6.

Sorry:frown:, i don't like to make you to believe at what i have saw, and what i say!!
I believe.... that you can believe at everything you want:)

[Geo]

:lol::lol::lol:

Hey Geo, before you feel like answering, let this poor soul complete high school in long range detection first to at least understand the basis of this subject and know for instance that if a system is properly built and tuned, the iron is not an issue...
Jeez... how many more eons will this have to be repeated?


PS. Since we are on this and to prevent this nonsense question to be repeated, Marco in one of the youtube videos answer this very same question
at ...youtube! Guessed right.
And among other things he simply stated the reason why he placed the shovel and how the detector has no problem in picking the ring even if he moves the... yes, the shovel out.

Going to the field now...
See you later.

Hi Hung.
My PD detects the iron objects because i did not make the adjustment at Omega so to reject the iron....
I want to detect the iron because some treasures are inside metallic boxes from spheres.

Regards:)

[Geo]

Do you see, Geo? When you wish to explain your experience, others start mockering, so... they don't need infos, don't need circuits. They want circus! :nono:

Hi Esteban.
I see, but what i can do. Never mind. Everyone can believe at everything he wants...
I wanted to attach photo of my last LRL, but it is not good time.......:lol:
They don't believe nothing:lol:

Regards:)

[hung]

Do you see, Geo? When you wish to explain your experience, others start mockering, so... they don't need infos, don't need circuits. They want circus! :nono:

I told you!
How's your humour today?:lol:

[Esteban]

Hi Esteban.
I see, but what i can do. Never mind. Everyone can believe at everything he wants...
I wanted to attach photo of my last LRL, but it is not good time.......:lol:
They don't believe nothing:lol:

Regards:)

Is your choice...

[Esteban]

I told you!
How's your humour today?:lol:

Very bad! :angry:

[hung]

Hi Hung.
My PD detects the iron objects because i did not make the adjustment at Omega so to reject the iron....
I want to detect the iron because some treasures are inside metallic boxes from spheres.

Regards:)

Hi Geo!
Yes you're right.
You know, there's a guy here in Brazil who lives up northeast (higher lattitudes) and his FG80 behaves the most weird way I have ever seen. Besides only being able to reach good calibration around 800 in the knob (I do here with only 150-200), he constantly picks iron besides gold with his FG80. Alonso is even thinking about traveling to his place to investigate this.
From his car, close to the shore in the beach, he picks up iron in the sand perfectly! I never thought this possible from long range.
He told me he is getting rich selling iron to old parts shops.:lol:

So as you see, you need to fine tune the device according to the latittude you are. Really interesting... We learn about those things everyday.:cool:

[J_Player]

Pistols also can use common LF or VLF circuits. These circuits are not secret or esoteric. You need some "combinations" of parts as beeps generator (you know how can build), so nothing is esoteric (the word use in this case is "secret").Hi Esteban,
What you say is not true. I cannot build the secret circuits you have inside the pistols. Of course I know how to build VLF transmitters and receivers, and I know how to build beepers. Neither of these is an esoteric technology. The combination of these circuits and other unknown methods that are used to make beeps at the unknown "phenomenon" is what is esoteric.

Your pistols are not made for the purpose of conducting ordinary well-understood geological surveys. They are made for the purpose of beeping at the unknown "phenomenon". You have taken great precautions keep secret the methods to connect these circuits and other secret techniques you claim will beep at the unknown "phenomenon". There is no mockery, only circuits which you decided to make secret which are defined as "esoteric" by in the English language.

You are now claiming that your pistols are not esoteric because they use ordinary VLF frequencies and beepers. This is a stupid argument to use to prove they are not esoteric. The fact is the pistols you showed are not used to make geological surveys, and are not even available to geologists and mining engineers.

If you wanted people to believe they are not esoteric, you could post the complete schematics showing all details so that any reader can easily build one and see how they make beeps at the phenomenon. But you have not done that. You chose to keep the designs secret, and you chose to keep them esoteric while trying to convince people they are not esoteric at the same time. It does not make any sense to me. What is wrong with calling your pistols esoteric? If the designs are secret, private, and only intended for a select few, then doesn't this define them as esoteric? Is there something wrong with the word esoteric?

Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

Very bad! :angry:

Don't worry. Hangin' here a few minutes will make you humour return high reading the skepthics posts.:lol:

See this:

If you wanted people to believe they are not esoteric, you could post the complete schematics showing all details so that any reader can easily build one and see how they make beeps at the phenomenon. But you have not done that.
:lol::lol:

[J_Player]

Hi Geo,
Did you ever check to see how far the PD can locate a shovel?

Best wishes,J_P

Hi J_P.
What are you mean????
As topic (normal MD) or as LRL???

Regards:)Hi Geo,
I once read where you talked about locating an iron door at some good distance with an early PD experiment when using it as an ordinary metal detector. I also heard some people say the PD can be adjusted to locate iron.

I am wondering now, after you have made more corrections to the circuit, can you set the controls to locate a shovel put on the ground at long distance? Did you ever measure what maximum distance?

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[WM6]

. Alonso is even thinking about traveling to his place to investigate this.



Even thinking? But he is better waiting that guarantee, if even done, has gone.

[Astrodetect]

Hi Geo
Dont forget us , we believe your experiences keep up the good work, it is very interesting and fascinating to pick up metals from Long distance. Dont mind the skeptics.
Thanks to all of you

[Astrodetect]

Hi
I have not problem if Pistols have esoteric technology or not. I know that Pistols detects the "phenomenon", and "phenomenon" is very strong!!!!.
If you will understand this, then you will understand how the Pistols working. If some people will spend, for understanding how pistols working, the half time than they spend to tell that Pistols don't work, then they will construct a good Pistol.
But if they will construct a Pistol, Then what they will have to say!!!:lol::lol:
So the things are simple!!! No "phenomenon", no "Pistols"......:lol::lol::lol:

Regards:)


Τελικά το δικό σου δουλεύει?

[Astrodetect]

Pistols also can use common LF or VLF circuits. These circuits are not secret or esoteric. You need some "combinations" of parts as beeps generator (you know how can build), so nothing is esoteric (the word used for this case is "secret").

ok Guys stop bashing Esteban, he is giving out information about his experiences, thats all. Thanks Esteban for your information.
Esteban has built many pistols that he has explained over and over about how they work. What exactly dont you understand about the principle of operation?. He builds detectors that are influenced by the phenomenon of buried metals, NOT that he actually can measure the phenomenon. Instead of accusing him all the time, why dont you try to build a detector based on scientific facts which can be influenced by buried metals? Or by magnetic fields? Think about IR, Ultrasound, VLF TX and RX, radio detectors ......etc.......They are ALL influenced by some kind of magnetic or electric fields. Ok, esteban does not give schematics, that is his rights, but he is trying to give us many tips about LRL detection.
Thanks

[J_Player]

ok Guys stop bashing Esteban, he is giving out information about his experiences, thats all. Thanks Esteban for your information.
Esteban has built many pistols that he has explained over and over about how they work. What exactly dont you understand about the principle of operation?. He builds detectors that are influenced by the phenomenon of buried metals, NOT that he actually can measure the phenomenon. Instead of accusing him all the time, why dont you try to build a detector based on scientific facts which can be influenced by buried metals? Or by magnetic fields? Think about IR, Ultrasound, VLF TX and RX, radio detectors ......etc.......They are ALL influenced by some kind of magnetic or electric fields. Ok, esteban does not give schematics, that is his rights, but he is trying to give us many tips about LRL detection.
ThanksHi Astrodetect,
I make no questions of what are the secret pistol circuits that Esteban does not want people to know about. My question is why he wants people to think these secret methods are not esoteric. Esteban has launched a campaign to convince people that his pistols are not esoteric even when he keeps secrets about them.

The word esoteric is defined to mean "secret, and only for a select few who have a special knowledge". If Esteban claims this is not true of his pistols, then why are they secret? The apperance is Esteban has some motive to make a change to the meaning of esoteric. He leads people to believe his pistols are no different than ordinary VLF survey equipment, but it is not true. They are not the same as ordinary VLF surveying equipment. They are circuits he keeps secret to be used to beep at unknown "phenomena".

I have no interest to know Esteban's secret circuits. I like to look at his pictures. I think they are interesting. But I don't like when he makes false representations to change the meaning of words. I don't see why it is wrong to call his pistols esoteric. If they use secret circuits known only by a few, then esoteric is what they are. Doesn't everyone who speaks English know this? What reason does he have to change the meaning of this word? Does he want to confuse people who have difficulty understanding English when they read his posts?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Hi Astrodetect,
I make no questions of what are the secret pistol circuits that Esteban does not want people to know about. My question is why he wants people to think these secret methods are not esoteric. Esteban has launched a campaign to convince people that his pistols are not esoteric even when he keeps secrets about them.

The word esoteric is defined to mean "secret, and only for a select few who have a special knowledge". If Esteban claims this is not true of his pistols, then why are they secret? The apperance is Esteban has some motive to make a change to the meaning of esoteric. He leads people to believe his pistols are no different than ordinary VLF survey equipment, but it is not true. They are not the same as ordinary VLF surveying equipment. They are circuits he keeps secret to be used to beep at unknown "phenomena".

I have no interest to know Esteban's secret circuits. :lol: :lol: I like to look at his pictures. I think they are interesting. But I don't like when he makes false representations to change the meaning of words. I don't see why it is wrong to call his pistols esoteric. If they use secret circuits known only by a few, then esoteric is what they are. Doesn't everyone who speaks English know this? What reason does he have to change the meaning of this word? Does he want to confuse people who have difficulty understanding English when they read his posts?

Best wishes,
J_P

The terminology is not all the correct because is associated with religious currents including: Gnosticism, Hermetism, magic, astrology, alchemy, Rosicrucianism, Vajrayana Buddhism, the Christian Theosophy of Jacob Böhme and his followers, Illuminism, Mesmerism, Swedenborgianism, Spiritualism, and the theosophical currents associated with Helena Blavatsky and her followers. There are competing views regarding the common traits uniting these currents, not all of which involve "inwardness", mystery or secrecy as a crucial trait. Wiki.

Maybe you wish to added a new esoteric "current": Pistolism. :lol:

[Esteban]

Don't worry. Hangin' here a few minutes will make you humour return high reading the skepthics posts.:lol:

See this:


:lol::lol:

But regarding another post, J_P doesn't have interest... the crude reality??? :rolleyes:

[ivconic]

"...Don't worry. Hangin' here a few minutes will make you humour return high reading the skepthics posts..."

What's a man without humour? Sad man. :lol:
We, The Skeptics, at least do have humour!
(mostly related to your - beleivers activities!) :razz::lol::p

The Hell! Life is short! Let's laugh anyway! :lol::lol::lol:

[J_Player]

The terminology is not all the correct because is associated with religious currents including: Gnosticism, Hermetism, magic, astrology, alchemy, Rosicrucianism, Vajrayana Buddhism, the Christian Theosophy of Jacob Böhme and his followers, Illuminism, Mesmerism, Swedenborgianism, Spiritualism, and the theosophical currents associated with Helena Blavatsky and her followers. There are competing views regarding the common traits uniting these currents, not all of which involve "inwardness", mystery or secrecy as a crucial trait. Wiki.

Maybe you wish to added a new "current": Pistolism. :lol:


Hi Esteban,
The reason you don't like people to think your pistols are esoteric is because you don't want them to associate your methods with Religious currents, spiritualism, or philosophical currents?

I doubt most people think your pistols are associated with religious or philosophical beliefs. I have seen a few who make that association, but most readers are able to see these use electronic circuits, not religious, spiritual or philosophical methods. They are clearly secret electronic machines, not secret religious, spiritual or philosophical machines.

If there are people who actually believe your pistols work by religious or other similar associations, we will probably hear from these few people soon.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
I once read where you talked about locating an iron door at some good distance with an early PD experiment when using it as an ordinary metal detector. I also heard some people say the PD can be adjusted to locate iron.

I am wondering now, after you have made more corrections to the circuit, can you set the controls to locate a shovel put on the ground at long distance? Did you ever measure what maximum distance?

Best wishes, :)
J_P


Hi J_P.

Sorry but i think that you play with me!!!..
Ask directly what you want...
When i detected the metal door (2.5...3 m i don't remember good) the PD worked as MD not as LRL.
You know very good, that the PD at fine omega null, detects both ferrous and no ferrous objects. I adjusted it this way....
My PD will detect the shovel at normal distance as a simple MD. But if the Shovel is inside the ground for long time (60...70 years ago), then maybe 10m. I say it because i detected a small buckle (burried before 60...70 years) at 3m about.

Regards:)

[Geo]

Τελικά το δικό σου δουλεύει?

Εσυ τι πιστευεις?????

[Qiaozhi]

The word "esoteric" can refer to something that is meant only for the initiated. In other words, something that is private or confidential. It does not specifically refer to religion or belief. In this particular instance, referring to the PD as "esoteric" would make sense, and is in no way derogatory. It simply means that the secret of the PD is known only to a small group of people.

[WM6]

Maybe you wish to added a new esoteric "current": Pistolism. :lol:



Thanks Esteban, yes, Pistolism, was the right term for LRL bewitchment.

Please protect this trademark.

But word Cresoteric or Crasyteric will be suitable too if esoteric are no acceptable.

[g-sani]

Hi Geo!
Yes you're right.
You know, there's a guy here in Brazil who lives up northeast (higher lattitudes) and his FG80 behaves the most weird way I have ever seen. Besides only being able to reach good calibration around 800 in the knob (I do here with only 150-200), he constantly picks iron besides gold with his FG80. Alonso is even thinking about traveling to his place to investigate this.
From his car, close to the shore in the beach, he picks up iron in the sand perfectly! I never thought this possible from long range.
He told me he is getting rich selling iron to old parts shops.:lol:

So as you see, you need to fine tune the device according to the latittude you are. Really interesting... We learn about those things everyday.:cool:

I believe that in every place one must make different calibrations and search from the same position again and again and not just once or twice.
Critical doesn't have a value that can be measured so micrometric adjustments in the knob is the best solution.
But you electronics know better anyway.
To understand the different effects we can have I think it is a good idea to even go there checking again whith different weather conditions.
I believe this plays a major role as important as soil.

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.

Sorry but i think that you play with me!!!..
Ask directly what you want...
When i detected the metal door (2.5...3 m i don't remember good) the PD worked as MD not as LRL.
You know very good, that the PD at fine omega null, detects both ferrous and no ferrous objects. I adjusted it this way....
My PD will detect the shovel at normal distance as a simple MD. But if the Shovel is inside the ground for long time (60...70 years ago), then maybe 10m. I say it because i detected a small buckle (burried before 60...70 years) at 3m about.

Regards:)Thank you Geo,
You answered most of my question.
From what you say it can find a shovel at 10 m distance if long time buried. I presume this is the same distance you usually see for non-ferrous metals. Correct?

But before it was properly tuned, it found a steel door at 2.5-3 m when working only as a metal detector? This seems like far distance for a normal metal detector, and yours was not tuned well. So it was giving some better distances than a regular metal detector even when not tuned well as regular metal detector. Am I wrong?

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[J_Player]

The word "esoteric" can refer to something that is meant only for the initiated. In other words, something that is private or confidential. It does not specifically refer to religion or belief. In this particular instance, referring to the PD as "esoteric" would make sense, and is in no way derogatory. It simply means that the secret of the PD is known only to a small group of people.Hi Qiaozhi,
This is exactly the way I understand it, and I thought most people understand the pistols Esteban shows.
Simply the secrets of these pistols are known only to a small group of people. Of course it is not derogatory.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Going to the field now... See you later.
So how did it went ?

Do you see, Geo? When you wish to explain your experience, others start mockering, so... they don't need infos, don't need circuits. They want circus! :nono:
Actually many are tired of circus, what the want is serious discussion matter and some evidences of what you are talking about...

I wanted to attach photo of my last LRL, but it is not good time.......:lol: They don't believe nothing:lol: Regards:)
I believe what i can see and measure.

I am wondering if i should have ever used the word "esoteric" :lol: .

[WM6]

I wanted to attach photo of my last LRL, but it is not good time.......:lol:
They don't believe nothing:lol:



Geo it is a good time for sure.
Please attach your photos!

You cannot expect all people to believe in what you believe.

[Geo]

Thank you Geo,
You answered most of my question.
From what you say it can find a shovel at 10 m distance if long time buried. I presume this is the same distance you usually see for non-ferrous metals. Correct?

But before it was properly tuned, it found a steel door at 2.5-3 m when working only as a metal detector? This seems like far distance for a normal metal detector, and yours was not tuned well. So it was giving some better distances than a regular metal detector even when not tuned well as regular metal detector. Am I wrong?

Best wishes, :)
J_P

Maybe you are not wrong, but you forgot the conditions....
The PD worked oposite!!!! maybe from bad null ( i used a concentric coil, not Omega), so i had the led just bright and when i detected the door then the led stopped to bright. I wrote about it!!!!, and yes the led stopped to bright, at a distance of 2.5....3 m.
But it is a big difference between MD and LRL, i think that you know it.

Regards:)

[Geo]

Geo it is a good time for sure.
Please attach your photos!

You cannot expect all people to believe in what you believe.

:lol::lol::lol:

Regards:)

[Geo]

I am wondering if i should have ever used the word "esoteric" :lol: .


For me it is a "simple" word :rolleyes:

[J_Player]

Maybe you are not wrong, but you forgot the conditions....
The PD worked oposite!!!! maybe from bad null ( i used a concentric coil, not Omega), so i had the led just bright and when i detected the door then the led stopped to bright. I wrote about it!!!!, and yes the led stopped to bright, at a distance of 2.5....3 m.
But it is a big difference between MD and LRL, i think that you know it.

Regards:)Yes, I remember.
This is why I am surprised. Maybe my metal detectors do not detect a metal door so far because they have a faraday shield on the coil.

But I was not aware that when working as LRL it can be tuned to find iron the same distance as non-ferrous. I thought it found iron at lesser distances. This is what I wanted to know. I guess you tune it to see only non-ferrous, but if you wanted to find iron, you could make a change in the tuning to use it for 30 m when looking for long time buried iron the size of a shovel.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[J_Player]

But regarding another post, J_P doesn't have interest... the crude reality??? :rolleyes:My interest in the pistols is to see them recovering treasure with my own eyes, and to see them make beeps at "the phenomenon" with my own hands.

I am not interested in building the secret pistol circuits. I have never had an interest in building any of the secret circuit parts that were shown in the forums, nor have I built any of them. I think it would be interesting to see other people build the secret circuits and watch them demonstrate these live. You know this is my interest because you saw me help to encourage the Morgan demonstration where Geo saw with his own eyes and tested with his own hands. That is the reality of historical facts.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

But I was not aware that when working as LRL it can be tuned to find iron the same distance as non-ferrous. I thought it found iron at lesser distances. This is what I wanted to know. I guess you tune it to see only non-ferrous, but if you wanted to find iron, you could make a change in the tuning to use it for 30 m when looking for long time buried iron the size of a shovel.


The concentration of Earth's magnetic field around Iron is strong, so it is easily detectable with LRL, or Magnetometer at greater distances.

The concentration of Earth's magnetic field around Gold, is weak, and less detectable at greater distances. The "field" of Iron has to be filtered out in order to Discriminate to Gold.

Enough said! I'm not here for argument, or discussion so don't bother. Let a word to those of you intelligent enough to understand simple physics, be sufficient. Dell

[putrechigi]

Hi
I have not problem if Pistols have esoteric technology or not. I know that Pistols detects the "phenomenon", and "phenomenon" is very strong!!!!.
If you will understand this, then you will understand how the Pistols working. If some people will spend, for understanding how pistols working, the half time than they spend to tell that Pistols don't work, then they will construct a good Pistol.
But if they will construct a Pistol, Then what they will have to say!!!:lol::lol:
So the things are simple!!! No "phenomenon", no "Pistols"......:lol::lol::lol:

Regards:)
I AGREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Geo]

Yes, I remember.
This is why I am surprised. Maybe my metal detectors do not detect a metal door so far because they have a faraday shield on the coil.

But I was not aware that when working as LRL it can be tuned to find iron the same distance as non-ferrous. I thought it found iron at lesser distances. This is what I wanted to know. I guess you tune it to see only non-ferrous, but if you wanted to find iron, you could make a change in the tuning to use it for 30 m when looking for long time buried iron the size of a shovel.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

Hi J_P.
Sorry but i don't know, so i can't answer.
I have not so big experience with my PD.

Regards:)

[J_Player]

The concentration of Earth's magnetic field around Iron is strong, so it is easily detectable with LRL, or Magnetometer at greater distances.

The concentration of Earth's magnetic field around Gold, is weak, and less detectable at greater distances. The "field" of Iron has to be filtered out in order to Discriminate to Gold.

Enough said! I'm not here for argument, or discussion so don't bother. Let a word to those of you intelligent enough to understand simple physics, be sufficient. DellHi Dell,
I understand you are not posting in the forum for the purpose of opening a discussion.
But I am making also making a reply without expecting any answer because your post is a little out of context.

We all know about the magnetic properties of iron. And we know that it is not seen the same by magnetometers as non-ferrous metals are.
The PD that Geo uses is not a magnetometer or and MFD tye LRL. It uses an IB metal detector circuit as a base circuit with a ferrite receiver added for long range operation. It does not work by injecting molecular "treasure frequencies" into the circuit as your LRLs do. It is a completely different type of locator that operates with a metal detector coil at around 120KHz. According to people who use these PDs, they can operate in either a metal detector mode or an LRL mode.

The questions I made are concerned with some unusual reports I heard about the response of these PD locators. The reports I heard are not entirely consistent, but they certainly do not follow the concept proposed by some LRL enthusiasts. I was only asking to see what kind of response he observed with his particular PD, not to learn how the magnetic properties of iron are different than other metals.

Thank you for your input,
J_P

[Geo]

The PD that Geo uses is not a magnetometer or and MFD tye LRL. It uses an IB metal detector circuit as a base circuit with a ferrite receiver added for long range operation. It does not work by injecting molecular "treasure frequencies" into the circuit as your LRLs do. It is a completely different type of locator that operates with a metal detector coil at around 120KHz. According to people who use these PDs, they can operate in either a metal detector mode or an LRL mode.
J_P

Hi J_P.
I must tell you that my modification PD, don't use ferrite as antenna for the second receiver........:rolleyes:

Regards:)