Bionic 01 Video

[goldfinder]

In watching the movie I noticed the shovel next to the target in one scene and gold in plastic bag in another. A shovel stuck into the ground like that will accumulate an electrostatic charge and discharge into the air as the charge build up is too much to stay on the shovel. The gold in the plastic bag is also another ES charge collector. Plastic is notorious for ES charge collection.

So is the Bionic an electrostatic type of detector?

I have built several ES detectors and ion discharge detectors have a definite frequency pattern. You can hook up an oscope and watch ES ion discharge. That is they type of pattern my ION detector uses.

Maybe there is some ionic discharges that the Bionic records when it is being calibrated and then "looks" for that type of discharge pattern. Maybe the gurus like Esteban who claim their ES detectors do do something useful for metal detection but are too primitive to go the extra mile and look for some specific discharge signal peculiar to gold. ES discharge is everywhere. Just walk across some gravel and you get ion discharges. It stands to reason that different sized ions will have different discharge patterns.

Just an observation. Someone with one of those machines could do some tests if they have the proper test equipment. OR hook up the Zahori or other ES/ion detector to an oscope and do some actual testing instead of all this BS rhetoric and claim w/ nothing scientific.

GoldFinder

[hung]

Hi everybody...i'm new here and haven't read all the posts about BIONIC 01
BUT.....once i have it in my hands and i made many tests since today ,i have to give you the results and if somebody can explain be my guest..

So , i ve got 20 gold coins to callibrate it.I put the device to ionic mode and i point the coins using the laser (always from north to south).When the device autolocks a frequency from target (gold coins) i lock the frequency and it's ready.After that wherever i put the gold (on the surface) i find it even if it's behind huge rocks or woods or the other side of the hill and even if i can't see the place i put it to the other side of the hill.That's for sure...
I also put the gold into the soil about 30-40 cm depth.I found it again easy from 50m away and from many angles (but always having north to my back).

So... i don't say the device is good or not..afterall it's not mine (i wouldn't give so easy 13000euros)...but ..how can you explain all these...it could help me to understand if all this i get is true or something else that i don't have the technical knowledge to explain.
Anyway if somebody has a good explanation for this let me know ..i ve got the device and i can test it again .
The sure is that i find the gold anywhere around but i don't know if this is based on ionic or electromagnetic or fake targeting.
Thanks and waiting (sorry for the bad english)

Thanks Georgino.
Always pointing south due to the edge peak eliptical emanation.

As I stated earlier, the Bionic 01 works.
Actually it worked previous to the laser implementation. I feel they evolved in the frequency sensor. It's wonderful what a simple Motorola processor can do the an LRL.

What happens when you turn the laser off and only work in bio mode?

PS. Price AFAIK is 8500 euros, not 13000.

[Funfinder]

Hi georgegino!

This is very good you found and joined this forum because here exists a really huge information-vaccuum about the OKM Bionic units.

We have to be shure if the Bionic 01 does or doesn't work but if you claim it works we need to do some serious test-experiments!


1. detection angle in degrees
put the goldcoins 10m in front of you and put some 2m ruler nearby. Tell us how many centimeter or inches from left to right a single coin gets detected.

2. detection of different gold
you can use your gold coins for calibration but also position some object consiting of other gold in the testfield. We need to know if it can recognise all kind of gold - gold-alloys.

3. Put the gold-coin into a small iron-box or tin-can and tell us if it get's still detected

4. film all of these tests and up them to youtube if possible

5. try to find out and tell us the maximum detection range of a single gold coin. The first time detect the coin from north in direction south and the second time vice-versa - we also have to know how good it works from south to north.

6. Make the distance test with single coin on sunny and on rainy weather. We need to know how it works on bad weather and if it works at all if it rains.

7. Tell us what kind of metals you can detect at all and from what distance.

8. Put gold-coin 10cm under water and check if it still get detected.

9. How long lasts the battery or accu-pack and did you get a 2nd as reserve?

10. How much have you or the person from where you got the Bionic 01 paid for this device and do you think it's really worth the money?


Thanks for your interrest and I hope we hear soon from your first test-results. :)

[georgegino]

.... fake for sure (as your promotion too)

So..as I said -if somebody 's got a good expanation it would be good to post it.......my friend WM6.Anyway ,I've got the device and maybe I'll do some tests and upload them.As I said the device IS NOT mine and I don't want to sell it or buy it or promote it.Maybe some of you are promoters for other devices and didn't like my post.
Ok... Everything I wrote is true and accurate and I can prove it anytime with a video.But this is not the point.I don't mind if the device called okm or fisher or Garret or whatever.It came in my hands by luck , I tested it under some conditions and I got the results I posted.It's the first time I use a lrl as you call it and I'm not a spesialist.
My friend WM6 ,you can thing what you want I don't mind,but as I said-if you ve got a good explanation for my testing results , post it-if you don't let the others say their opinion.

[WM6]

My friend WM6 ,you can thing what you want I don't mind,but as I said-if you ve got a good explanation for my testing results , post it-if you don't let the others say their opinion.



My dear friend georgegino, there is no problem to do some test.

Question is if you wish to present to all us here a scientifically valid test or only "usual believer test".

So, problem is how you perform your test to be scientifically valid?

Par example: test cannot be scientifically valid if you know where test target is buried etc. (thema widelly discussed here in past).

Please read this for start:

http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=/info/dbtesting.dat (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/../cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=/info/dbtesting.dat)

http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=info/jref/matter.dat (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/../cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=info/jref/matter.dat)

http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=/info/dbtest.dat (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/../cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=/info/dbtest.dat)


(http://www.geotech1.com/forums/../cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=info/jref/matter.dat)

[Qiaozhi]

As I stated earlier, the Bionic 01 works.
Have you actually had one in your hands and tested it?

What happens when you turn the laser off and only work in bio mode?
Hmmm... obviously the answer is "no", otherwise you would not be asking this question.

[georgegino]

My dear friend georgegino, there is no problem to do some test.

Question is if you wish to present to all us here a scientifically valid test or only "usual believer test".

So, problem is how you perform your test to be scientifically valid?

Par example: test cannot be scientifically valid if you know where test target is buried etc. (thema widelly discussed here in past).

Please read this for start:

http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=/info/dbtesting.dat (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/../cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=/info/dbtesting.dat)

http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=info/jref/matter.dat (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/../cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=info/jref/matter.dat)

http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=/info/dbtest.dat (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/../cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=/info/dbtest.dat)


(http://www.geotech1.com/forums/../cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=info/jref/matter.dat)Ok this is a better approach from your side now.I really wanna know if the device is working or not because i live in a place that have much to give.So i can help you and you can help me too.
First of all i say again that i made some tests in the mountain away from rivers and i didn't read the guides you gave me.All the tests made with english gold coins and this is what i'm interested for.We where 5 people in those tests helping (like hiding the coins ...).All the tests made having north in my back and the ungle wasn't more than 45 degrees.I did the calibration on the 20 coins from 10 meters away (having the coins on the ground or in the air into a plastic or on the rocks or on the woods)
So..50% of the tests made with the coins ON the surface of the ground and at max distanse 200 meters away from the device.
40% made with the coins INTO the pockets of my friends (they where changing places in the other side of a hill about 200 meters away and i couldn't see them-i used another friend in the top of the hill to see if i found them)
10% made with the coins burried into the ground in about 40 cm depth
(For somebody who asked the laser is just for pointing the coins till the callibration and not a part of sensoring).
Well i don't know if my tests match with your specifications BUT i found the coins in all of these tests and from deferent angles.
Also i don't undersand way is a problem to know where the target is...could i make the device beeping only looking at the coins if it wasn't able to detect it?
I used only the ionic mode and i didn't isolated my self.I didn't use bionic mode cause the device didn't respond as i wanted and anyway i need only the ionic mode for buried treasures like omd says.
That s it for now..i'm going to read the threads you posted wm6 and i'll do the tests again ...but what do you think..all these i said is nothing?How do you believe i was able to detect the coins even if the device is not a real lrl?How i was able to find them in the other side of the hill even if i couldn't see them and even if i was changing my position and their position too?
I'm not a scientist and for sure i didn't make the tests like your guides say but i had a result.
Im waiting for opinions till i make the tests again.
I have to say that the device some times was beeping and out of the target (like when i was near the river) but this doesn't change the results on the real target and the device's hypothetical ability to find AND the real target also (if it can or all this is a "usual believer thing "for me as you said).

[g-sani]

Hi georgino, I find interesting your experience whith bionic but forgive me I have to see something whith my eyes to believe it.I never had one in my hands and until that happen I like to know other peoples experience whith it.
Are you Greek georgino?

[georgegino]

Hi georgino, I find interesting your experience whith bionic but forgive me I have to see something whith my eyes to believe it.I never had one in my hands and until that happen I like to know other peoples experience whith it.
Are you Greek georgino?
Γεια σου φιλε..για τη ωρα δεν μπορω να σου δωσω περισσοτερα προσωπικα στοιχεια ,αλλα οπως βλεπεις ειμαι πατριωτακι και απο οτι καταλλαβα υπαρχουν και αλλα Ελληνακια στο φορουμ.Αυτα που διαβασες ειναι ολα οπως τα λεω,αλλα αν ασχολεισαι λιγο με τετοια ξερεις οτι ..αλλο τα τεστ και αλλο στην πραξη.Το μονο σιγουρο ειναι οτι δεν προσπαθω να διαφημησω η να πουλησω το εργαλειο οπως εγραψε ο φιλος.Δεν με ενδιαφερει καθολου ουτε τι μαρκα ειναι ουτε η προελευση.Εγω το πηρα τυχαια απο ενα γνωστο που το αγορασε αλλα δεν καταφερε να το δουλεψει μια και δεν κατεχει και πολλα και προσπαθω να δω αν οντως καταφερνει να κανει κατι.Μεχρι στιγμης κατι κανει αλλα τα τεστ δεν εγιναν οπως γραφουν τα παλικαρια εδω μεσα και δεν μπορω να ισχυριστω ακραδαντα οτι δουλευει.Θα δουμε λοιπον..

[takhslambos]

εχεις θαψει καμια λιρα ? απο ποση αποσταση τη πιανει?και σε ποιο βαθοσ?

[takhslambos]

εβαλεσ καμια λιρα σε κανα σιδερενιο κουτακι να το θαψεισ να δουμε αν το πιανει?

[WM6]

.
Also i don't undersand way is a problem to know where the target is...could i make the device beeping only looking at the coins if it wasn't able to detect it?

.

This can be crucial problem if you know where the target is. Problem of test validity. I give you links and if your intentions are to prepare valid test, please read and study the links.

There (on links) you can find some sentences about "The Ideomotor Effect" which can give you answer about "a problem to know where the target is".

[Funfinder]

Please write in english otherwise I have to print your posts and take them to a good friend who has a greek restaurant or a second from greece who has a nightclub. :)

I see we have alot treasure-hunters from greece here. :)


@ georgegino
Thanx for telling us your test results so far. :)

Forget about WM6 for now, he is not your good friend, he just wants to justifies to him self that there are no working LRLs at all. That's why he ask directly for double-blind-tests. It is useless with him, he even can't accept that the Jeohunter really works good - and he is not even willing to prove this by himself. :frown:


The most important thing you should do is to make the above tests I told you already and the next very important step would be to find different gold! Not your coins, not the special calibrated material, but different one!

This is no joke now:
Try to locate gold-stuff in houses! You have a far higher chance finding some juwelry in foreign houses or villas than in some mountains or woods. Tell us the results.


If the device has the need of some gold-calibration before it can work calibrate it, but after this search for other gold-items.

It wouldn't be a scientific double-blind test, but you could ask one of your friend to bury some jewellery 20cm deep and after this you have to find it without any clues or help.

If you got a signal, step back as far as you can until there is no longer a response. All these tests ar VERY important because of the VERY high price and the possible potential of finding real treasures from a far more distance as usual detectors do! You also could make some pix of the manual or uplaod the pdf so we will get as most info as possible!

btw. I really hope Morgan will join this discussion here because he visited the OKM-factory and told us about very bad own test-results. So we have to find out the whole circumstances and differences between his results and yours!


And, georgegino, if ever possible, please take pictures of the OKM Bionic 01 and write the results down! Here are alot extremly sceptical guys and you won't have the slightest chance to convince them if you don't make at least some "semi-professional" testing-work.
They are discussing here since 5years about long range locators and came to the conclusion that no single one working exists at all! That's why you really should do some serious test-sessions - for our all benefit and sake.

You wouldn't help OKM or it's resellers if you push the test-results better as those really are.

And please try to find out how this device really works while treasure-hunting! Because this is the usual purpose of it. Go metal-detecting with some usual MD but take the OKM with you and tell us if you found something below the surface and what.

Good Luck! :D

[WM6]

It is useless with him, he even can't accept that the Jeohunter really works good - and he is not even willing to prove this by himself. :frown:



Jeohunter can be fantastic detector - if you need to replace your Nintendo.

What a deal to test LRL only for LRL belivers like you - to convince convinced?

[g-sani]

Please write in english otherwise I have to print your posts and take them to a good friend who has a greek restaurant or a second from greece who has a nightclub. :)

I see we have alot treasure-hunters from greece here. :)


@ georgegino
Thanx for telling us your test results so far. :)

Forget about WM6 for now, he is not your good friend, he just wants to justifies to him self that there are no working LRLs at all. That's why he ask directly for double-blind-tests. It is useless with him, he even can't accept that the Jeohunter really works good - and he is not even willing to prove this by himself. :frown:


The most important thing you should do is to make the above tests I told you already and the next very important step would be to find different gold! Not your coins, not the special calibrated material, but different one!

This is no joke now:
Try to locate gold-stuff in houses! You have a far higher chance finding some juwelry in foreign houses or villas than in some mountains or woods. Tell us the results.


If the device has the need of some gold-calibration before it can work calibrate it, but after this search for other gold-items.

It wouldn't be a scientific double-blind test, but you could ask one of your friend to bury some jewellery 20cm deep and after this you have to find it without any clues or help.

If you got a signal, step back as far as you can until there is no longer a response. All these tests ar VERY important because of the VERY high price and the possible potential of finding real treasures from a far more distance as usual detectors do! You also could make some pix of the manual or uplaod the pdf so we will get as most info as possible!

btw. I really hope Morgan will join this discussion here because he visited the OKM-factory and told us about very bad own test-results. So we have to find out the whole circumstances and differences between his results and yours!


And, georgegino, if ever possible, please take pictures of the OKM Bionic 01 and write the results down! Here are alot extremly sceptical guys and you won't have the slightest chance to convince them if you don't make at least some "semi-professional" testing-work.
They are discussing here since 5years about long range locators and came to the conclusion that no single one working exists at all! That's why you really should do some serious test-sessions - for our all benefit and sake.

You wouldn't help OKM or it's resellers if you push the test-results better as those really are.

And please try to find out how this device really works while treasure-hunting! Because this is the usual purpose of it. Go metal-detecting with some usual MD but take the OKM with you and tell us if you found something below the surface and what.

Good Luck! :D

Yes I agree whith you Funfinder.
The important thing whith every LRL is to see if you can find something from a distance which was lost or hidden in the past and never mind the test proccedure if you are successfull more than once.
Probably only God can find anything and always and as I see this is difficult for most of the people to realise it and I see them still looking for the perfect machine.:lol: :lol: :lol:
Sorry but this makes me laughing.

[Funfinder]

Jeohunter can be fantastic detector - if you need to replace your Nintendo.

What a deal to test LRL only for LRL belivers like you - to convince convinced?

@ georgegino
Here as a warning to you another example of the useless comments of WM6.

WM6, you are talking about LRL as if it would be some kind of mysterious religion. :lol: :lol: :lol:

There is no such thing like "believe" in technical things - don't you understand this?

You can believe in Santa Claus or the easter-rabbit but not in technic! You also can't believe that you will win the roulette if you always bet on your personal lucky number!

Technic or electronical devices work or work not! It is as simple as this! And as long as you don't exactly know how good or long or reliable something work you have to deal with probabilities, but not with belief or even worse - faith!

It is probable possible that the lamp over your head will burn out the next days, weeks, months or years. Depending on the quality, the used technic and material and alot different factors - one most important with electrical bulbs of course is time.

And the much more important thing with Jeohunter would be to made the coil inclusive holder 1kg lighter and not changing the display.


Belief is something personal, your own opinion and you can believe what you like as long as you're no extremist or religious fanatic, but in technical and scientific areas there exists probabilities.

This should be clear since Gallileo Gallilei (is the earth flat or a globe?). Some still believe the earth looks like a potatoe, though, but this is another idiotic topic.


If someone knows nothing about a certain technical device or invention he doesn't have the right to believe that for shure it won't work and spread this lie around without hesitation, but he has the duty to get as much info as possible to make shure if it works or not. And with a little bit of technical understanding he also can find out what's the reason why it works!

Nobody on this world "believes" that those new flat LCD-TVs wouldn't work, just because all the years before there did only exist the big boxes. The question "believe or not" even exists at all, only the question of probability how long and how good it works!

How it is with Roulette?
The probability of winning is 1:36 (or 37) betting just on one Number. Depending on how long you are playing for shure you will win sometimes, even if it takes 100 times if you are a very unlucky person like WM6. :lol: :D

Compare this now to the believe in something:
You can believe your girlfriend doesn't cheat you with some other guy but you may NEVER be shure. You also can believe in some gods or fairytales but you'll never be shure, too!


This is the big difference between belief and probability !!!
And especially technical devices are very real, consisting out of technical parts and therefore the more you know - the less any "probability".

Engines and especially working electronic are re-testable for 100 times so there is no place to believe in them!

You can believe that your heart will still beats the next years but even this has to do how healthy and safe etc. you're living your life and how big is the probability of surviving!

So let's get finally the damned missing information so we know if something has the needed very high probability to work good for us or not - like it is with an expensive or a throw-away camera, with a good or a cheap product! :|

[J_Player]

There is no such thing like "believe" in technical things -

...Technic or electronical devices work or work not! It is as simple as this! And as long as you don't exactly know how good or long or reliable something work you have to deal with probabilities, but not with belief or even worse - faith!

...If someone knows nothing about a certain technical device or invention he doesn't have the right to believe that for shure it won't work and spread this lie around without hesitation, but he has the duty to get as much info as possible to make shure if it works or not. And with a little bit of technical understanding he also can find out what's the reason why it works!

...This is the big difference between belief and probability !!!
And especially technical devices are very real, consisting out of technical parts and therefore the more you know - the less any "probability".

So let's get finally the damned missing information so we know if something has the needed very high probability to work good for us or not - like it is with an expensive or a throw-away camera, with a good or a cheap product! :|From what I read you are saying the OKM Bionic detector is a technical electronic device, and should not be judged with beliefs or rumors, but should be considered a device that works or not.
And since we have not established how well it works, then we can make tests to determine the probabilities of how well it works or not.

And, as you say: "technical devices are very real, consisting out of technical parts and therefore the more you know - the less any "probability".

So let us begin with what we know about the OKM Bionic detectors.
To start, we know most people who have actually used OKM detectors tell us they do not locate treasures.
Only a few people who have actually used them tell us they recovered gold.

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12278&d=1275004670
This girl told me better invest the money in a second hand Mercedes...
Seems the BIONIC 01 is a bad investment ;) - [Morgan]

The percentages of fail for actual users of OKM detectors is very high, which would put that data in the probability that the OKM detectors don't work for hunting treasure.
But this is only what we know about field reports.
In order to reduce any probability in our assessment, we should look at all the technical apparatus that was built into this detector.

We actually know a lot of technical information from people who opened OKM detectors to see what is inside.
A) We know from a number of posts in the Geotech forums that the OKM bionic models use two cheap fluxgate sensors configured as a gradiometer.
B) We know there are electronics inside that process the input signals from the fluxgate sensors.
C) We also know that some of the models have a laser pinpointer that shows where the detector is pointed.
D) We know the people who took apart the OKM detectors did not report any signs of ion sensors of any kind inside the detectors.
E) From what others have shown us, we know OKM detectors are configured as a gradiometer with the sensors placed laterally transverse to the direction the detector is pointed, and parallel to the ground.

This is a lot of technical information we got from the people who looked inside the OKM detectors.
So how can all this information help us to eliminate the probabilities?

The gradiometer configuration in the OKM detectors is fully consistent with the field results we see from the users of the detectors:

1. The OKM gradiometers must first be initialized in a given compass direction so it is calibrated to electronically null the earth's magnetic field influence when pointed in that direction. Any attempt to move a different compass direction will allow the earth's magnetic field to change the delicate balance that was established between the two sensors during the calibration procedure. This new compass direction will make the detector useless until it is re-calibrated for the new direction. This is the first evidence that the OKM is a gradiometer, not a gold sensor.

2. The OKM detector can be rotated up and down without losing the compass calibration. This behavior is consistent with the transverse gradiometer arrangement. This is the only axis in which this kind of gradiometer can be rotated without feeling some degrading influence from changing the direction of the earth's magnetic field. --More evidence the OKM is a gradiometer, not a gold sensor.

3. We have seen the fluxgate sensors that are used in the OKM detectors from people who opened them. But nobody has shown us any ion sensors of any kind in an OKM detector. We hear only propaganda that there is an ionic detector. In other words, we have real fluxgate parts that we can see and touch, but only rumors of ion detectors. Why is this? Do ion detectors exist in any OKM locators? Why hasn't anyone been able to find them inside?

4. We hear reports and see videos of OKM detectors performing parlor tricks to locate gold and shovels. But we don't hear field reports from people who took any OKM product into the field and found some treasure that they did not know was buried before locating it. We also hear field reports where OKM detectors failed to find easy treasures that were later found with metal detectors. Why is this? Do you suppose the parlor tricks can only be done if the magnetic signatures are set up in advance so the gradiometer will beep when we want it to beep? Isn't the OKM detector working like a gradiometer with some sample and hold signal processing added? When will we begin to hear some real believable field reports of any OKM consistently locating unknown treasure in the field instead of performing gradiometer tricks?

In conclusion, we have seen some slick sales promotions that do NOT show us any OKM detectors finding unknown treasures for treasure hunters.
We have an overwhelming body of evidence from actual users who tell us they could not find any treasure with OKM detectors, but they work like a gradiometer.

So what do you suppose the probabilities are for this technical electronic equipment?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Funfinder]

To make this "believe topic" completly clear a final point:

Believing in something is subjective while probability is objective!

Somebody who has aerophobia believes (triggered by fear, bad experiences, reports about a tragedy that happened not long ago or other reasons) his plane will crash for shure while all other passengers rely on the very high probability of ca. 9999 out of 10000 times working engines, constructions, hitec and last but not least persons who are controlling and operating all of this.

To believe (think) something is dangerous, a big loss of money or even deadly is "selfprotection" like with some animals they're run or fly away if there comes something / somebody near them. Even believing in religions is a psychological trick for a mental "better" surviving if somebody can't bear the reality of his own mortality, of ceasing to exist at all.

This example makes it absolutly clear that believing is an extremly subjective thing and therefore should be avoided under all circumstances if it comes to "finding the truth" or proof that has to be valid generally.

And because every person is his own center of his own little world and looks for his own best surviving it is no wonder somebody believes all kind of stuff that fit's the best to its personal lifestyle or: "survival technique".

If a person has no spare money it may be better for his psyche to believe there are no working LRLs at all so he doesn't get angry because he can't buy this kind of MD!
Such a believer also will try to deceive or combat other persons or spread false infos for strenghten his own conviction - like it happens 'til now in religious wars.

Religious believers have no proof or evidence at all that their gods really exist but those act as if it would be a 100% shure fact! Prisoners of their own distorted minds, victims of this complicated and unparadiseful world. :rolleyes:

[J_Player]

To make this "believe topic" completly clear a final point:

Believing in something is subjective while probability is objective!

Somebody who has aerophobia believes (triggered by fear, bad experiences, reports about a tragedy that happened not long ago or other reasons) his plane will crash for shure while all other passengers rely on the very high probability of ca. 9999 out of 10000 times working engines, constructions, hitec and last but not least persons who are controlling and operating all of this.

To believe (think) something is dangerous, a big loss of money or even deadly is "selfprotection" like with some animals they're run or fly away if there comes something / somebody near them. Even believing in religions is a psychological trick for a mental "better" surviving if somebody can't bear the reality of his own mortality, of ceasing to exist at all.

This example makes it absolutly clear that believing is an extremly subjective thing and therefore should be avoided under all circumstances if it comes to "finding the truth" or proof that has to be valid generally.

And because every person is his own center of his own little world and looks for his own best surviving it is no wonder somebody believes all kind of stuff that fit's the best to its personal lifestyle or: "survival technique".

If a person has no spare money it may be better for his psyche to believe there are no working LRLs at all so he doesn't get angry because he can't buy this kind of MD!
Such a believer also will try to deceive or combat other persons or spread false infos for strenghten his own conviction - like it happens 'til now in religious wars.

Religious believers have no proof or evidence at all that their gods really exist but those act as if it would be a 100% shure fact! Prisoners of their own distorted minds, victims of this complicated and unparadiseful world. :rolleyes:I see you have made the "believe topic" completly clear with your final point comparing the OKM detector to religion.
I never thought believing in OKM products was similar to believing in religion, but maybe you are correct.

Most religious traditions include a long history of amazing events that happened in ancient times when following the wisdom of the religious ways.
We also hear amazing modern day believers making reports which defy science that include miraculous healing of ailments, and other phenomenon such as religious figures spontaneously appearing on window panes.

How is this similar to believing in OKM products?
OKM products also follow an ancient tradition of finding treasure by means of "divining" with dowsing instruments which are said to work for "believers".
And in modern times, we see believers of OKM products making reports which defy science that include miraculous locating gold without any physical technology that is capable of sensing gold, and even showing videos intended to convince us the OKM is a gold sensor.

If we go by the reports which have been made by first hand users of OKM products, we see the overwhelming majority of users report they cannot find gold with it. Only a small minority report amazing results of finding gold. This seems to be reminiscent of the percentages of people who make first-hand reports of religious miracles.

We also find that the people who report the amazing OKM abilities to locate treasure cannot demonstrate the OKM locating unknown treasures in a live experience to a treasure hunter. It can only be talked about or shown in a video when live observers are not there to try it and see for themselves. We observe the condition where a small minority of people are trying to convince others that an OKM detector will locate gold even though we can see it has no gold sensors in it, and it behaves exactly as we expect the fluxgate sensors to respond.

So I can understand how you try to compare believing in the OKM locator to believing in a religion.
Some people may have a psychological need to believe the OKM fluxgate sensors can locate gold if you connect them to a signal processor. I suppose you are correct - It is an act of faith to believe The OKM detectors can defy science when you have never experienced it first hand, and most actual users claim it does not locate treasure. Hopefully you are not among those persons who have no spare money so you won't get angry because you can't buy this kind of MD!

For me, I have enough spare money to buy the OKM detector, but I would prefer to spend it on a used Mercedes Benz, where most of the people who have actually used it tell me it works as claimed, instead of calling it worthless crap. :rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Funfinder]

@ J_Player
Very good answer and arguments http://www.geotech1.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif - such methods will lead us to final results!


But the biggest problem is the very few information. We can make our conclusions from what we heard already but this is not very reliable - it is simply not enough!

It was the same with Jeohunter - just one single person here and at the thunting.com forum told something really useful about this kind of MDs (the Nokta) - and there is not much difference to the OKM.

You're assuming the Bionic 01 uses just a simple gradiometer.
This means you think the Information from the OKM website must be a lie. Is this really right?

You say we have enough info or "test". No, we don't! We have nothing! Nothing really reliable so far.

J_Player, if we all discuss here any longer at this level I really get extremly motivated to check this s**t out by myself and: I will do a very good job. :cool:

Hopefully first "georgegino" will make some really serious test sessions.

What makes you so shure it has to be just a magnetical gradiometer calibration? This would be absolutly useless for real treasure-hunting and OKM wouldn't come through with such cheap tricks!

If OKM reports that it uses an ion-chamber for detection it should be correct and not demented directly. Even if we haven't had this device in our own hands so far. If you know that good about the reaction of gradiometers, now you have the chance to tell georgegino to do a special test so we can exclude it!

btw. it would be absolutly useless if the OKM Bionic would work exclusivly by walking straight from north to south!

So it has to have the possibility to detect metal in all directions, just with not that high amplitude perhaps!

And if that girl from the picture didn't found a treasure this is no argument at all! We know almost nothing about how this treasure-hunting has been, at what location, und what circumstances etc. etc. This is comparable with Ronin's unsatisfied Jeosonar / Nokta Golden King stories.

All such statements mean nothing at all. Single opinions or not working how to use a device the right way. There are alot different possibilities but those are no objective test-results.

And even if somebody of us sceptical guys owns such a LRL it's not failsafe making wrong conclusions or tests. Morgan did use Mineoro without any success in the first time and he changed his mind slowly by making positive experiences.

But we know already for what important points we have to look for so we will make much faster progress and if some persons like georgegino will support us we will achieve useful test-results very soon!

[Funfinder]

J_Player - about your second post - I really don't understand you!

You don't have any reliable information nor evidence about OKM-detectors but you are comparing it with worthless crap or did I misunderstood you?! :nono: :nono: :nono:

And I didn't compare OKM directly with religion but the whole "believe in LRLs or not"-sh*t. Absolutly ridicilous!

If you like to be the same ignorant als WM6 go ahead, otherwise look out for TRUE information and not stupid hearsay.

I won't defend OKM in any way, I will prove if it works or better if it is usable / worthful for me personally, I don't care about the ignorant rest. And you better should do the same if you want to remain a credible person.

Assuming this or that just because someone picks up or spreads some unreliable information helps nobody!


> Hopefully you are not among those persons who have no spare money so you won't get angry because you can't buy this kind of MD!

What the hell has this to do with the whole topic? How you can even think I would belong to those persons? :rolleyes:
I am not in need to "nonbelieve in LRLs" like some other guys here - I have the power to check them out, test or buy them if I want to - like i did with Jeohunter, too!

Comparing OKM with the whole religious miracle stuff was nice to read but it is exaclty what we should avoid!
So why making short stories xtra long? A waste of time.
Only as long as someone doesn't understand how something works it's miracle for him.

btw. I won't discuss this stupid: "OKM for shure cannot really work"-stuff any longer at this actual "0815" (means very desolate or cheapo) info situation! As you said in another post: Lets get the missing info. Yeah, lets get it and after this we will see further! Discussing at the moment about OKM (pro or con doesn't matter) is a pure waste of time!

[Funfinder]

Do you really think these are evil betrayers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5u1nT_WQ68
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEEwy4qyAj0

[J_Player]

You don't understand? Really?
"What the hell has this to do with the whole topic?"
"How you can even think I would belong to those persons?"

You made a post detailing how people who have beliefs about LRLs are similar to people have beliefs about religion in the forum thread for the OKM Bionic 01 video!
I agree, religion has nothing to do with LRL. But since you made the analysis of how religious beliefs are related to LRL beliefs, I looked for ways that you could be correct.

When you pointed out the envy motive: "If a person has no spare money it may be better for his psyche to believe there are no working LRLs at all so he doesn't get angry because he can't buy this kind of MD!" I realized you want to believe the OKM locators really find treasure, yet you have not bought one yet. Of course I would hope you are not among those who has no spare money so you would not be in a position to get angry as you explained in your post. What the hell does this have to do with the whole topic? Well, this is the reason that you posted which would prevent people from buying LRL detectors. Personally, I think people decline to buy LRLs because they don't believe they will find treasure, but if you say it is because they don't have the spare money, I don't try to contradict your belief.

After posting a detailed analysis of religious beliefs and LRL beliefs, you now say "Comparing OKM with the whole religious miracle stuff was nice to read but it is exaclty what we should avoid!"
This is exactly what I thought before you introduced religion into the discussion of LRLs a few posts back.

But if we move away from the religious aspects, we see you are still dwelling on complaints about the reliability of information.

The solution is simple.
Get your hands on a real OKM detector and use it how a treasure hunter would use it.
Go into a hunting ground with it and see what it locates.
Not some sample that you hide to find again. But a real buried metal item that has not been dug up.
same like you find treasure with a conventional metal detector.

Open the OKM and see the fluxgate sensors like others have.
Touch them with your own hands. Read the part numbers on the magnetic sensors.
See if you can find any ion sensor.

No amount of talk about how good the information is, or talk about religion, or believing, or watching videos, or listening to stories will show you the truth.
Personal experience will.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Funfinder]

> But since you made the analysis of how religious beliefs are related to LRL beliefs, I looked for ways that you could be correct.

What I wanted was to defend the whole LRL stuff against all kinds of "belief" that is going on here and put it back on solid scientific and information-technical ground!

This whole LRL-topic is more like a criminal investigation because of the missing reliable information, the missing witnesses and therefore much more like just simple smalltalk, guessing or riddle solving.


> I would prefer to spend it on a used Mercedes Benz, where most of the people who have actually used it tell me it works as claimed, instead of calling it worthless crap. :rolleyes:

This is correct in principle but no proof at all that OKM sells worthless crap. Listening to the opinions or prejudices always needs making an own picture of something. Where are all your people? Give me the address of them, tell me what exactly they have done, let me proof their claims! No, don't - this was just a rhetorical argument to demonstrate how few evidence-factor there is behind in all such claims or reports.


> Personally, I think people decline to buy LRLs because they don't believe they will find treasure, but if you say it is because they don't have the spare money, I don't try to contradict your belief.

This argument I brought (so they are not sad because they haven't the money to buy a LRL) was more just a possible ironic reason, nothing more.

In reality the price is too high for the most and they aren't convinced enough it really works. The old "to good to be true"-story. But some technical devices are really too good for some people - but because they are to complicated to handle them or work successfully with 'em. This is especially the problem with complex hitec stuff or computers. I know about persons those even couldn't start a cellphone or a VCR - but compared with computerized MDs those are very very simple.


> The solution is simple.
> Get your hands on a real OKM detector and use it how a treasure hunter would use it.

I wish it really would be that simple! :)
OKM won't send me such a device for free testing, so first i would have to go to Thueringen/BRD or visiting their german reseller.

The question: "do I really like to spent 8000 Euro if it works" is another topic. Do I need it really? First I would need more information where the Nazi-Gold really is hidden if at all...


> See if you can find any ion sensor.

It's in the Mineoro FG80 and the OKM Bionic has it, too. Why it shouldn't? Besides OKM would get huge problems claiming it works with ion-detecting while it doesn't. This would be the first and easiest way getting your money back if you found nothing. And it is very simple to control it:
Just ask someone of OKM and let show you where there is the ion-sensor! :D They are not so stupid claiming stuff that it is not integrated at all, believe me! Such silly things could make real damage and they won't risk it.

As example if you look to the Bionic 01 it has 3 or 4 sensors you can attach at the front side. And one of them should or must be the ionic-chamber! The others may contain the flux-meter and the laser-pinpointer.


I could get any time in personal contact with OKM and it also wouldn't be a huge problem spending 500 Euro / travel some 100 miles to visit them personally! If there is no easier way finally getting really reliable and serious information I will do this! Because this whole desinformation stuff here get's on my nerves slowly.


> Personal experience will.

You are right, but sometimes you even can not trust yourself! How many people say to themselves: "For shure, tomorrow I will stop smoking!" - but they'll never will made it?! More than enough! And in the same way also some treasure-hunters deceives theirselves if they've been unsuccessful in finding treasure with some new detector! Nobody likes to blame himself, so the culprit has to be the not working detector... Who else?! Not me, no no, not me - I did my best! It's clear...


As history tolds us new scientific discoveries often if not always had a very hard time until gettin' fully accepted and understood. There is no difference with LRLs. But history also told us that new discoveries most of the time brought really alot improvements, comfort or other advantages in life. Especially electricity!

Our task now is finding out the whole truth about LRL because shure we all would like to have a working LRL! But it has to be scientific and experimental testing and no wish-thinking. That's why we shoudn't categorically condemn LRLs but gettin' the most reliable and serious info that is possible at all.

And after this I hope finally we know the best actual possible way for finding treasures! :)

[georgegino]

Well ..too much disputation here.I don't want to be a part of this,so i'll post again when i'll have something concrete in my hands.I repeat,the device IS and it WILL be in my hands for a long time.It looks to work good and the results of testing where like i said.But this is not a prove that the machine can detect real treasures.Thats why i m going to go for a real hunting and i hope first for my own good it will make me rιch.Afterall this is the point from the first time.I don't like to feel like a promoter here so i will participate in your discussion after the testing and only when (if) i 'll have some prove.I hope the machine will have the same results in real buried target.

[takhslambos]

μακαρι να τα βρεισ φιλαρακο.

[J_Player]

Well ..too much disputation here.I don't want to be a part of this,so i'll post again when i'll have something concrete in my hands.I repeat,the device IS and it WILL be in my hands for a long time.It looks to work good and the results of testing where like i said.But this is not a prove that the machine can detect real treasures.Thats why i m going to go for a real hunting and i hope first for my own good it will make me rιch.Afterall this is the point from the first time.I don't like to feel like a promoter here so i will participate in your discussion after the testing and only when (if) i 'll have some prove.I hope the machine will have the same results in real buried target.Hi Georgegino,
I think you are the only tester of the OKM who has the correct idea. You will use the OKM as you use any treasure hunting tool when making a real search for treasure.
This will be your best proof. You can see with your own eyes how much treasure the OKM will detect, and you can see how it responds to magnetic anomalies for yourself.
The reason for using the OKM is to help find new treasures on a treasure hunt. Not for making tricks in front of a camera.

I have one request. If you have the opportunity, can you open the enclosure and take close photos of the parts inside?
Can you look to see if you can find an ion detector or magnetometer parts inside? This will be helpful to convince non-believers it uses magnetometer sensors.

If you have no opportunity to photograph the parts inside, then I hope you have successful treasure hunting.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Funfinder]

> Well ..too much disputation here.I don't want to be a part of this,so i'll post again when i'll have something concrete in my hands.


Georgegino, that was correct, but we have cleared this now successfully and the tests can start if you're ready.

The real treasure hunting is important, but if you have the Bionic back in your hands you can make alot additional tests, too.
Here are some important facts you can check out:


- Does it find only gold or also silver, copper, lead AND iron.

- what is the smallest object it can detect and from what distance

- bury a goldring and try to dectect it from all directions! Does it fit with the below field diagram?

- unplug the sensors one by one and check out that way what function those have.

- use shielding and electric machines nearby

- cover the gold-ring with alu-foil and check out it still got detected

- check out the ground with your usual metal detector and if you find something, try to find it with the OKM Bionic, too.

- try to do the calibration not exactly from north to south but from north-east to south-west. After this go directly north or south of the object and look if the target still gots detected.

- take a strong magnet or a speaker box of your stereo and place it somewhere and also in front or sidewards the searched object.

- let electricity flow through the goldring and see if it still got detected

- tell us about any sensitivity settings that device has or doesn't has

- cover the laser pointer with some black tissue and try to detect the target

- try to do all the same tests again and see if you can recognise any differences in daytime, weather or ground-mineralisation


Last but not least I wish you finding really huge treasures - 'cause greece is full of them! And don't get busted! :lol:

[Funfinder]

One week passed by - no tests, but more than enough "smalltalk" - for luck not here... :angry:

This way won't bring us any further.