Bionic 01 Video

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
I must tell you that my modification PD, don't use ferrite as antenna for the second receiver........:rolleyes:

Regards:):eek:
You are detecting non-ferrous at 30m with only a modified IB metal detector?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

:eek:
You are detecting non-ferrous at 30m with only a modified IB metal detector?

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P.
Where i say about 30m distance????

Regards

[Esteban]

So how did it went ?


Actually many are tired of circus, what the want is serious discussion matter and some evidences of what you are talking about...

I am wondering if i should have ever used the word "esoteric" :lol: .

When starting serious discussion, you and others re-start the mockeries. This is the field of your "serious" discussion. So, is better the "esoteric" position. :lol:

[Fred]

When starting serious discussion, you and others re-start the mockeries. This is the field of your "serious" discussion. So, is better the "esoteric" position. :lol:
I have never mocked you. And when i am in a serious discussion, i expect serious answers.
Esoteric is the point where we are right now.It depends on you to make it different, and it should not be difficult.
Unless you prefer to keep it esoteric :rolleyes:

[Esteban]

I have never mocked you. And when i am in a serious discussion, i expect serious answers.
Esoteric is the point where we are right now.It depends on you to make it different, and it should not be difficult.
Unless you prefer to keep it esoteric :rolleyes:

I don't believe... By experience, I know this is not true. :nono:

[g-sani]

I don't believe... By experience, I know this is not true. :nono:

Some people will never understand that every person has something to give you even if it is wrong in any other matter or subject.
To take this little bit is something "plus" to your knowledge anyway.
Apart from that the majority of people need time to get knowing each other to feel ready to talk about their achievements, experiences or whatever that is.
So it would be better for everybody including me of course to keep a low profile and be positive listening to others.
Of course we should have our own beliefs and tactics but all of us still learning as time passesby no matter our personal level of knowledge.
Let somebody talk and he will give you more for sure.
Balance is needed and it is as critical as in LRLs:lol:

[WM6]

Some people will never understand that every person has something to give you even if it is wrong in any other matter or subject.



You mean "every person has something to give you" except sceptic?

OK, but then you must correct yourself in "some person has something to give you"

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
Where i say about 30m distance????

RegardsHi Geo,
It was Morgan who said the Alonso PD can detect non-ferrous things at a maximum of maybe 30m.
You did not say 30m distance for your PD.
I was thinking you can find 30m because you said you made modifications to your PD so it would work better than the PD Morgan showed you.
But maybe I am thinking the wrong idea.

Can you tell what is the best distance you have found non-ferrous targets after you made the recent modifications to your PD?

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[g-sani]

You mean "every person has something to give you" except sceptic?

OK, but then you must correct yourself in "some person has something to give you"

Of course I include skeptics into that WM6.
I will never say that I know more than a skeptic.
May be the only thing that I know better than him is that LRLs are working and nothing else.

[J_Player]

Of course I include skeptics into that WM6.
I will never say that I know more than a skeptic.
May be the only thing that I know better than him is that LRLs are working and nothing else.Hi g-sani,
I never saw any LRL work like you did. Until I see it work I will be skeptic. But I can still listen to what people say until I see with my own eyes. You saw I showed some photos that maybe will help your friend to decide if he wants to spend some money for the copy of an LRL. Those photos are not opinions, they are pictures of what I saw. Hopefully those photos will help to make less confusion for for your friend.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

So it would be better for everybody including me of course to keep a low profile and be positive listening to others.
Of course we should have our own beliefs and tactics but all of us still learning as time passesby no matter our personal level of knowledge.
Let somebody talk and he will give you more for sure....

I have been listening for years and i learnt close to nothing.Not because i am deaf, but because LRL enthusiasts, (form their own declarations) don´t want to give away any real information or proofs.
So, what are they doing here?

[WM6]

May be the only thing that I know better than him is that LRLs are working and nothing else.



Hi g-sani

As you say, you saw that LRL is working. I believe you that you saw such phenomena.

I believe you, because I saw many extraordinary phenomena in my life too.

For example I saw UFOs too. But I am not believe at first in what I saw and after doing some research it has shown that they are not unknown flying phenomena but only known light phenomena.

Another example. I can see every day, again and again, that Earth is flat. Despite of what I see, I know for sure that Earth is round, cause this fact was scientifically proved.

What you saw is only what you saw and is not scientifically proved as existing fact. You can believe of what you saw, but this phenomena can exist only in sphere of beliefs and not in sphere of scientifically proved facts.

Now, there is constant misunderstanding the purpose of sceptics.

Sceptic are in need of working LRL much more than believers, because believers are convinced that they already have working LRL, except that this fact can not be justified to sceptics by proper scientific evidence.

Contrary to such beliefs of believers, sceptics need both: first proper scientific evidence and then really working LRL, which will ultimately worth its price.

Unfortunately in life does not apply always WYSIWYG phrase.

[Esteban]

I have been listening for years and i learnt close to nothing.Not because i am deaf, but because LRL enthusiasts, (form their own declarations) don´t want to give away any real information or proofs.
So, what are they doing here?

First, the persons must read opinion of persons with real experience in this field, who made many experiments and study the behavior of buried metals and detected at certain distance by its manifestations.

So, if these persons doesn't learn from the experience of others, what are they doing here?

[WM6]

So, if these persons doesn't learn from the experience of others, what are they doing here?



You are right, but experience have to be scientifically proved and reproducible under scientifically controlled condition. Where are such experience? We have only your beliefs that you experienced something but no one scientific proof.

[g-sani]

You are right, but experience have to be scientifically proved and reproducible under scientifically controlled condition. Where are such experience? We have only your beliefs that you experienced something but no one scientific proof.

What do I need scientific proofs when I can go out finding treasures whith my LRL?
Well may be I need them in order to convince you.
You must be jocking!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[hung]

You are right, but experience have to be scientifically proved and reproducible under scientifically controlled condition. Where are such experience? We have only your beliefs that you experienced something but no one scientific proof.

Watch out.
You are in the process of turning your mind in a damaging-non reversible state for learning such as very well known characters here such as c..., q...,m... and so on.
I warn you. If you keep going this way there will be a point of NO return and it will be too late to abort it without severe mind and nervous breakdown when unbiased data is input back in.

[Geo]

What do I need scientific proofs when I can go out finding treasures whith my LRL?
Well may be I need them in order to convince you.
You must be jocking!
:lol: :lol: :lol:


Hi GSani.

They need scientific proofs so to justify themselves here at this forum.
They must be here at this forum to prove that LRLs don't work:lol::lol:, but they never touched a LRL:lol: .
Carl that own many LRLs Keep very discreet position here in opposite with the other that never have worked one.

Regards:)

[J_Player]

What do I need scientific proofs when I can go out finding treasures whith my LRL?
Well may be I need them in order to convince you.
You must be jocking!
:lol: :lol: :lol:Actually, this is correct.
If a person uses an LRL for the purpose of locating treasure, and the LRL helps him to find more tresure, then nothing more is needed.
Simply go find treasure and be happy :)


But when a person uses an LRL to convince other people that it finds treasure, then they cannot expect other people to believe them until they do something to convince the other people. In this case, the importance of the LRL is no longer simply to find treasure, but to demonstrate that it is working and convince people who don't believe to beleive. For most people, they would believe more easily if they hold one in thier hand and try it out for themselves to see if it is helping them to find treasure before they believe strong enough to spend money to buy one. For me, I would not need any scientific test to prove any theories or measurements. I would only need to try it for a few days and see if I am finding treasure that I cannot find without it. But others may want to see more scientific tests. The only way they can do this is to get an actually LRL to test, not by looking at pictures and listening to stories. This is where the problem is. No LRL manufacturer has his LRLs available at the local treasure hunting stores for people to try and see for themselves. They only allow photos of the LRL and lots of gold, with stories that their LRL found the gold. Why can't the buyer try it out before he pays his money like any other metal detector? If the LRLs were available in the local treasure hunting store, then nobody would be asking for proof, because they could simply go and try one for themself, just like any other metal detector. Then buy it if they think it is working good for them.


The question is why would anyone need to use an LRL for convincing other people?
For a person who is a manufacturer, they would want to do this in order to sell an LRL.

For a hobbyist who is not selling an LRL and has no connection to any LRL factory employees or owners, the reasons would be personal.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

Hi Fred.
I can't forget the time that we spend at Alonso's PD:lol:.
I wrote and other times.... The big problem was the bad "phenomenon" and not the PD.....
Yes, the Alonso's PD is not so useful to me, but my PD is a little better, don't need so critical adjustment (i modified it). But there are better LRLs that make fantastic job. I will write again....
For a person that likes the coin hunting the PD is useless, but for a person that look for big treasures the LRL is Must.

Regards:)
Hello Geo

The PD is a good coin locator,but this depends on the critical adjustment,not everybody as the skill to adjust PD in the limits. I HAVE THIS SKILL.
Pistoldetectors are not for everybody...

regards

[Morgan]

Hi Geo!
Yes you're right.
You know, there's a guy here in Brazil who lives up northeast (higher lattitudes) and his FG80 behaves the most weird way I have ever seen. Besides only being able to reach good calibration around 800 in the knob (I do here with only 150-200), he constantly picks iron besides gold with his FG80. Alonso is even thinking about traveling to his place to investigate this.
From his car, close to the shore in the beach, he picks up iron in the sand perfectly! I never thought this possible from long range.
He told me he is getting rich selling iron to old parts shops.:lol:

So as you see, you need to fine tune the device according to the latittude you are. Really interesting... We learn about those things everyday.:cool:
Olá Hung

Desculpa dizer isto mas é a realidade...O MINEORO modelo DC2006 falhou completamente na busca do tesouro do galeão espanhol "Nuestra Senora De Las Mercedes" naufragado no Cabo de Santa Maria (Faro).
Eu e mais um amigo que tem barco fizemos exaustivas buscas com o Mineoro muito perto do local do naufragio em 2006 sem obter qualquer sinal. Mas é frustante saber atraves da U S ODISSEY que a companhia americana resgatou desse mesmo local a 30 m de profundidade 17 toneladas de ouro e prata,avaliados em 500 milhões de dolares.
É muito frustante,eu penso que se tivesse usado o modelo DC2008 o resultado seria diferente,creio mais fiavel...

[J_Player]

Hello Geo

The PD is a good coin locator,but this depends on the critical adjustment,not everybody as the skill to adjust PD in the limits. I HAVE THIS SKILL.
Pistoldetectors are not for everybody...

regardsHi Morgan,
I believe you made a correct assessment of treasure detecting equipment in general. This is true for ordinary metal detectors.
When you go to the treasure hunting store to buy a metal detector, there are different models to choose from. One person may like the simple automatic model that will always beep near a target. Maybe they won't like the model that they must listen for some special sounds to identify a target, because they are not skilled enough to find good results with it. It does not mean the detector is no good, only that the automatic model works better for that person. For another person who has a lot of experience, he may find three times more targets using the model where he is listening for the special sounds. For him, maybe the second model is a better detector.

The final results do not show which is a better detector.
They only show which works best for differently skilled people.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

What do I need scientific proofs when I can go out finding treasures whith my LRL?
Well may be I need them in order to convince you.
You must be jocking!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't know what you need.
What you need is your problem and I am not interesting in.
I know only what need naive potential buyers of scamming LRL devices.
They need to be protected against LRL scam promoters like you and against criminals like mineoro and rangertell by real information.
Sceptic are here to give such naive potential buyer correct information. To give him other opinion. That is all.
And I am not joking.

[putrechigi]

new video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMaIyGS36Gw&feature=sub
i wasen't reguards

[hung]

new video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMaIyGS36Gw&feature=sub
i wasen't reguards

Hey Manolo, thanks!

Did you get a chance to go out with Marco yet?

Anyway, my team will get one to add to our arsenal of LRLs.:D

One of the guys will probably go to Peru which is closer and get one from the South American representative. He will also take the FG80 with him for some comparison tests and who knows, maybe he will even bring some inca gold from Machu Pichu on the way back.:p

[Morgan]

new video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMaIyGS36Gw&feature=sub
i wasen't reguards
Hi Manolo

I´m afraid your friend Marco is trying to make promotion on the Bionic-01 for sales. In reality this model and the early BIONIC OKM models are useles for treasure hunting. I have the confirmation,i talk with people from Germany who have this device on hands,not work for them,sorry...

[WM6]

....... he will even bring some inca gold from Machu Pichu on the way back.:p



Please, note cargo restrictions on aircraft for the gold.

[hung]

Hi Manolo

I´m afraid your friend Marco is trying to make promotion on the Bionic-01 for sales. In reality this model and the early BIONIC OKM models are useles for treasure hunting. I have the confirmation,i talk with people from Germany who have this device on hands,not work for them,sorry...

Hey Morgan, could be.

But the previous B1 worked very, very well in detecting large gold here in Brazil.
I don't care what your german friends might think about the device, but it worked fine in Brazil!

Maybe because we are a blessed country?:cool:

[Morgan]

Hey Morgan, could be.

But the previous B1 worked very, very well in detecting large gold here in Brazil.
I don't care what your german friends might think about the device, but it worked fine in Brazil!

Maybe because we are a blessed country?:cool:
I dont know,maybe Brazil is blessed country...But what about the 17 tons of precious metal the americans take from Faro ocean??? MINEORO cant make a single beep,i was near the place !!! :angry:

[hung]

I dont know,maybe Brazil is blessed country...But what about the 17 tons of precious metal the americans take from Faro ocean??? MINEORO cant make a single beep,i was near the place !!! :angry:

Details, please...

[Morgan]

Details, please...
DETAILS

We use one medium size boat with motor,also magnetometer(this one give some signals but we didnt check the spots underwather becouse MINEORO not give any beep,so we work 1,2,3,4 miles from Faro beach...The reference was some spanish gold coins(Carolus IV)found by one person.
Nostra Senora de las Mercedes sank 1804,the brithish navy make this galeon to explode.
Its amazing how the portuguese marines not see the U S Divers activity in this place,it take many days to get all this GOLD from underwater shipwreck.

[Morgan]

Details, please...
you can have a look on my thread #270 for more details

[Fred]

First, the persons must read opinion of persons with real experience in this field, who made many experiments and study the behavior of buried metals and detected at certain distance by its manifestations.

So, if these persons doesn't learn from the experience of others, what are they doing here?

As far as i know, you made no experiments, only observations of an apparent phenomenon.
Everything in science needs observation AND scientific explanation.

I wonder why the ones convinced LRL work cannot prove it - even if only with a good video.

What do I need scientific proofs when I can go out finding treasures whith my LRL?
Well may be I need them in order to convince you.
Actually yes if your intention is to convince people more than just your word wilkl be needed.
Watch out.
You are in the process of turning your mind in a damaging-non reversible state for learning such as very well known characters here such as c..., q...,m... and so on.
I warn you. If you keep going this way there will be a point of NO return and it will be too late to abort it without severe mind and nervous breakdown when unbiased data is input back in.
Like you are still in trance Hung, this has nothing to do with mind state or spirit...By the way , WHEN will unbiased data will be released ? :razz:

Hello Geo

The PD is a good coin locator,but this depends on the critical adjustment,not everybody as the skill to adjust PD in the limits. I HAVE THIS SKILL.
Pistoldetectors are not for everybody...

regards
so they are not real electronic detectors based on real physic phenomenon?

...O MINEORO modelo DC2006 falhou completamente na busca do tesouro (...) 17 toneladas de ouro e prata,avaliados em 500 milhões de dolares.
I am sure hung will find a good explanation for this total failure of the mineoro. I hope it will not be the size of the treasure :rolleyes:
Hi Manolo
I´m afraid your friend Marco is trying to make promotion on the Bionic-01 for sales. In reality this model and the early BIONIC OKM models are useles for treasure hunting. I have the confirmation,i talk with people from Germany who have this device on hands,not work for them,sorry...
Be carefull Morgan, they will call you "closed mind sceptic " and that you don´t have the special ability to use it, or you are in the wrong region.

[Fred]

Its amazing how the portuguese marines not see the U S Divers activity in this place,it take many days to get all this GOLD from underwater shipwreck.
:lol::lol:

[J_Player]

DETAILS

We use one medium size boat with motor,also magnetometer(this one give some signals but we didnt check the spots underwather becouse MINEORO not give any beep,so we work 1,2,3,4 miles from Faro beach...The reference was some spanish gold coins(Carolus IV)found by one person.
Nostra Senora de las Mercedes sank 1804,the brithish navy make this galeon to explode.
Its amazing how the portuguese marines not see the U S Divers activity in this place,it take many days to get all this GOLD from underwater shipwreck.Hi Morgan,

This is a great treasure! If you can recover a treasure like this one, then you will no longer need to continue working or treasure hunting except when you want to for fun. :)

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

new video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMaIyGS36Gw&feature=sub
i wasen't reguards

It is very clear now with this last video that the device beeps when hold in horizontal position.In other words, it´s an electronic level.
as long as the target is in the same plan it will beep when pointing at it.
hope you will buy it and see by yourself.Then you can think of the people here trying to warn you about scam.
with some regards.

Hi Morgan,
This is a great treasure! If you can recover a treasure like this one, then you will no longer need to continue working or treasure hunting except when you want to for fun. :)
Best wishes,J_P
J_P, i think this treasure has already been recovered by the US ,apparently it would not be the case if the mineoro had not failed so miserably.

[J_Player]

It is very clear now with this last video that the device beeps when hold in horizontal position.In other words, it´s an electronic level.
as long as the target is in the same plan it will beep when pointing at it.Maybe it will be better to check it with your own hands to verify what it is detecting. You could set a simple laser level to mark the places on the ground that are the same level, and turn it off while you test the Bionic 01. But you could also see if it works when making other tests of your own that are in the kind of locations you normally hunt for treasure. Maybe some treasue hunters live near the Germans who have this model, and can go to borrow it to run thier own tests to see if it finds treasure for them.

Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

DETAILS

We use one medium size boat with motor,also magnetometer(this one give some signals but we didnt check the spots underwather becouse MINEORO not give any beep,so we work 1,2,3,4 miles from Faro beach...The reference was some spanish gold coins(Carolus IV)found by one person.
Nostra Senora de las Mercedes sank 1804,the brithish navy make this galeon to explode.
Its amazing how the portuguese marines not see the U S Divers activity in this place,it take many days to get all this GOLD from underwater shipwreck.

Hey Morgan,

Sometimes I really don't understand you...
First you said that Mineoro was crap and you were going to sell your devices.
Then, you told that your friend found gold with one of the Mineoro models and you were not going to sell it anymore.
Later you said that DC2008 did not beep at your medal but in the day the video was shot it actually beep. Then you said the Mineoros do work but they only would detect large gold, not small one...

Well, which Morgan I am talking to this time?

Regarding what you told about the Mineoros not beeping, it might have dozens of reasons, such as heavy generators, magnetometers, underwater machinery and even small handheld subaquatic detectors working for a long time, do contribute to completely kill the ionic fields at the target area.

If the detector did not emit signals, assure yourself there was a very good reason for this.
It's just silly to insinuate the detection did not happen exclusively due to the device's fault. This is ridiculous.

You know as well as I do, if the right conditions are met, the detector will beep because the fields are there to be detected.

So what's your point anyway?:shrug:

[modaljar]

I think real videos should be like this one :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iKs2y97bpQ&feature=related

and if you watch carefully you can see his real machine in the background without and mean to show up.

[Fred]

You see morgan? exactly as i said: everything is fine while you say the stuff is working.as long as you emit doubts, you are a fool and rejected.
It´s not a religion, it´s a sect...

The result is that there are dozens of reasons for the mineoro not to detect 17 tons of gold and silver. :shocked:

[hung]

I have been listening for years and i learnt close to nothing.

You've said it... We could never agree more, pal.

[Qiaozhi]

Olá Hung

Desculpa dizer isto mas é a realidade...O MINEORO modelo DC2006 falhou completamente na busca do tesouro do galeão espanhol "Nuestra Senora De Las Mercedes" naufragado no Cabo de Santa Maria (Faro).
Eu e mais um amigo que tem barco fizemos exaustivas buscas com o Mineoro muito perto do local do naufragio em 2006 sem obter qualquer sinal. Mas é frustante saber atraves da U S ODISSEY que a companhia americana resgatou desse mesmo local a 30 m de profundidade 17 toneladas de ouro e prata,avaliados em 500 milhões de dolares.
É muito frustante,eu penso que se tivesse usado o modelo DC2008 o resultado seria diferente,creio mais fiavel...
That's because the Mineoro DC2006 couldn't detect gold ... even if it was 1cm from the sensor. :rolleyes:

[WM6]

Its amazing how the portuguese marines not see the U S Divers activity in this place,it take many days to get all this GOLD from underwater shipwreck.



It is easy to explain: Portuguese marines are not equipped with minestrone pistols.

[Fred]

You've said it... We could never agree more, pal.
I am glad you recognise once again your failure in demonstrating anything.

[hung]

Olá Hung

Desculpa dizer isto mas é a realidade...O MINEORO modelo DC2006 falhou completamente na busca do tesouro do galeão espanhol "Nuestra Senora De Las Mercedes" naufragado no Cabo de Santa Maria (Faro).
Eu e mais um amigo que tem barco fizemos exaustivas buscas com o Mineoro muito perto do local do naufragio em 2006 sem obter qualquer sinal. Mas é frustante saber atraves da U S ODISSEY que a companhia americana resgatou desse mesmo local a 30 m de profundidade 17 toneladas de ouro e prata,avaliados em 500 milhões de dolares.
É muito frustante,eu penso que se tivesse usado o modelo DC2008 o resultado seria diferente,creio mais fiavel...

Oi Morgan, desculpe, não tinha visto esse seu post.
E se o ouro estivesse bloqueado por metais pesados?
E se a regulagem do DC2006 estivesse fora?
Eu poderia ficar aqui conjecturando mil e uma razões para tentar explicar.
Isso nunca aconteceu aqui comigo.
Tanto o DC2006 quanto o 2008 teriam detectado. Cabe somente ao voce tentar saber o que houve. Eu não estava lá.
Só acho que voce 'levantando essa poeira', só deixa os céticos aqui mais alvoroçados e enlouquecidos. Voce sabe...:lol:

[WM6]

I HAVE THIS SKILL.
..,.,..,.,..,
MINEORO cant make a single beep,i was near the place !!!

:angry:

Hmh, Morgan, or you haven't this skill or Mineoro is total crap. What is your chose?

[WM6]

Hi Morgan, sorry, did not see that your post.
And if gold were blocked by heavy metals?
And if the regulation of DC2006 was out?
I could stay here conjecturing thousand and one reasons to try to explain.
That never happened with me.
Both DC2006 and the 2008 would have detected. It is only when you try to know what happened. I was not there.
I just think that you 'raising the dust, "just let the skeptics here alvorçados and more crazed. You know ...
..:lol:

No need to comment, all big mouths are total de-bunkered.

[Morgan]

10882

10883

10884you can have a look on my thread #270 for more details

[Morgan]

Hey Morgan,

Sometimes I really don't understand you...
First you said that Mineoro was crap and you were going to sell your devices.
Then, you told that your friend found gold with one of the Mineoro models and you were not going to sell it anymore.
Later you said that DC2008 did not beep at your medal but in the day the video was shot it actually beep. Then you said the Mineoros do work but they only would detect large gold, not small one...

Well, which Morgan I am talking to this time?

Regarding what you told about the Mineoros not beeping, it might have dozens of reasons, such as heavy generators, magnetometers, underwater machinery and even small handheld subaquatic detectors working for a long time, do contribute to completely kill the ionic fields at the target area.

If the detector did not emit signals, assure yourself there was a very good reason for this.
It's just silly to insinuate the detection did not happen exclusively due to the device's fault. This is ridiculous.

You know as well as I do, if the right conditions are met, the detector will beep because the fields are there to be detected.

So what's your point anyway?:shrug:
Well,that´s true i know people who have found treasures with mineoro models both DC2006 and DC2008,but i dont understand why my DC2006 not emit a single beep in the treasure place,MINEORO its impredictable device...

[J_Player]

10882

10883

10884
you can have a look on my thread #270 for more details
What a great treasure!
I like the photos you posted.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

....
i dont understand why my DC2006 not emit a single beep in the treasure place,

...

Someday you will understand. I hope you are pronounced your right to money back.

[Morgan]

Oi Morgan, desculpe, não tinha visto esse seu post.
E se o ouro estivesse bloqueado por metais pesados?
E se a regulagem do DC2006 estivesse fora?
Eu poderia ficar aqui conjecturando mil e uma razões para tentar explicar.
Isso nunca aconteceu aqui comigo.
Tanto o DC2006 quanto o 2008 teriam detectado. Cabe somente ao voce tentar saber o que houve. Eu não estava lá.
Só acho que voce 'levantando essa poeira', só deixa os céticos aqui mais alvoroçados e enlouquecidos. Voce sabe...:lol:
When i travel to Brazil some years ago ,i have in my mind to buy MINEORO becouse of this treasure(spanish galeon). Mr. Damasio told me DC2006 will detect 3 times more in the wather than in land. Afther buy this device,i promise Mr. Damasio and Paulo Torquato to give them one pat of the treasure if Mineoro find the spot,unfortunatly this never hapens...congratulations US ODISSEY &Company ;)

[g-sani]

I don't know what you need.
What you need is your problem and I am not interesting in.
I know only what need naive potential buyers of scamming LRL devices.
They need to be protected against LRL scam promoters like you and against criminals like mineoro and rangertell by real information.
Sceptic are here to give such naive potential buyer correct information. To give him other opinion. That is all.
And I am not joking.

I see you are loosing control of the situation again.
I am not here to promote anybody and when I admit it openly whatever you say just proves who you are.
I have never said that this LRL is working so how do I promote?
Its also easy to call names but these ones that you call criminals I am sure that they have found treasure at least once in their lifes using their LRLs and you haven't.
I told you that you can keep dreaming about Santa Claus but don't you ever even dream about treasures because this is not your style.:D

[Morgan]

Oi Morgan, desculpe, não tinha visto esse seu post.
E se o ouro estivesse bloqueado por metais pesados?
E se a regulagem do DC2006 estivesse fora?
Eu poderia ficar aqui conjecturando mil e uma razões para tentar explicar.
Isso nunca aconteceu aqui comigo.
Tanto o DC2006 quanto o 2008 teriam detectado. Cabe somente ao voce tentar saber o que houve. Eu não estava lá.
Só acho que voce 'levantando essa poeira', só deixa os céticos aqui mais alvoroçados e enlouquecidos. Voce sabe...:lol:
Com todo o respeito ao Sr.Damasio,MAS VERDADES SOBRE A MINEORO TEM DE SER REVELADAS. É UM APARELHO QUE NÃO FUNCIONA TODOS OS DIAS :(

[Morgan]

It is easy to explain: Portuguese marines are not equipped with minestrone pistols.
Portuguese marines are CRAP,if they see people detecting coins in the beach,they go and take this detectorists and they will lose devices and pay money to government. But they aloud this U S Divers to take away all this TONS OF GOLD ???
My country is a crap

[Qiaozhi]

Oi Morgan, desculpe, não tinha visto esse seu post.
E se o ouro estivesse bloqueado por metais pesados?
E se a regulagem do DC2006 estivesse fora?
Eu poderia ficar aqui conjecturando mil e uma razões para tentar explicar.
Isso nunca aconteceu aqui comigo.
Tanto o DC2006 quanto o 2008 teriam detectado. Cabe somente ao voce tentar saber o que houve. Eu não estava lá.
Só acho que voce 'levantando essa poeira', só deixa os céticos aqui mais alvoroçados e enlouquecidos. Voce sabe...:lol:
Yes, yes ... just more excuses ... but you are wrong. It does not agitate or drive us mad. :razz:
It's just amusing. :lol:
Even when you post in Portuguese! :ninja:

[WM6]

I have never said that this LRL is working so how do I promote?

I am sure that they have found treasure at least once in their lifes using their LRLs

.:D

Read yourself and determine who is losing control or this is your style to de-bunkering yourself in the same paragraph.

[Morgan]

What a great treasure!
I like the photos you posted.

Best wishes,
J_P
Yes,big treasure,was everytime near where i live.
Now i know Spain claims want all the treasure for them,they put U S divers into court (of course they are inocent,just modern pirats ;) ). Treasure was in portuguese wathers,but government here stay silent...very funny

[g-sani]

Read yourself and determine who is losing control or this is your stile to de-bunkering yourself in the same paragraph.

I have heard of somebody promoting a brand but I haven't heard of somebody promoting all brands.
May be I am a Master promoter and I don't know it.
At least you make me laugh WM6.:lol::lol::lol:

[WM6]

I

At least you make me laugh WM6.:lol::lol::lol:



Better to laugh than speak nonsense. Enjoy!

[WM6]

My country is a crap



Not your country, dear Morgan, your country is beautiful.
Systems of all countries are crap.
And we all (except maybe brave Greek) are crap, because we do not resist to such crapy systems.

[J_Player]

Yes,big treasure,was everytime near where i live.
Now i know Spain claims want all the treasure for them,they put U S divers into court (of course they are inocent,just modern pirats ;) ). Treasure was in portuguese wathers,but government here stay silent...very funnyYes, very funny. Hard for me to understand.

Many governments make laws to make treasure hunting illegal, so treasure hunters must be pirates to find treasure. :lol:
But when the treasure is found, then all the work becomes worthwhile.
The only problem is to find a way to keep the treasure you find. :)

Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

Not your country, dear Morgan, your country is beautiful.
System of all country is crap.
And we all (except maybe brave Greek) are crap, because we do not resist to such crapy systems.

Funny thing; you reminded me on that problem! If some organized group of people stands up for their rights and protest peacefully than they will achieve nothing - waste of time only. But if same group stands up and try something radical (to really make some difference) than system decree that group as terorist group. Why Greeks are different? Simply because they are tired of wasting time. As long as Greeks are the only one - we will achieve nothing against the system. If we want to beat the system we must organize on global plan. Tough and hardly possible....but not impossible.
....
And yes system in all countries is crap, i agree.
I was born and lived in almost perfect society - Socialism. Than "system" came here and destroyed everything. It is time for revenge - time to destroy system!

[ivconic]

"....Many governments make laws to make treasure hunting illegal, so treasure hunters must be pirates to find treasure.
But when the treasure is found, then all the work becomes worthwhile.
The only problem is to find a way to keep the treasure you find...."


That is true. Same situation here in my country. That's why is better each day to find one gold coin than only in one day to find 100kg hoard, because you will have to watch your back from government and mafia at the same time (aren't those also the same?).

[J_Player]

"....Many governments make laws to make treasure hunting illegal, so treasure hunters must be pirates to find treasure.
But when the treasure is found, then all the work becomes worthwhile.
The only problem is to find a way to keep the treasure you find...."


That is true. Same situation here in my country. That's why is better each day to find one gold coin than only in one day to find 100kg hoard, because you will have to watch your back from government and mafia at the same time (aren't those also the same?).
I think governments have made laws to make the government the owner of all valuable things in their juristiction since the first governments.
A good example is taxes. Most governments collect more taxes than they need to perform the job of keeping thier country orderly.

But for treasure, Spain has made laws to say they own all treasure not only in Spanish territory, but many other places far from Spain. The most fair treasure laws I know of are in the UK, where the treasure hunter can have the joy of finding his treasure, and then will be paid a fair price to sell the treasure to the government to put in a museum. I think this is good, because it encourages treasure hunting, and at the same time it preserves the treasures for their historical value to anyone who wants to see the actual artifacts from ancient civilizations.

Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

I am 43/44 years old and one thing still is not clear to me at all;
why do we have to pay taxes at all? At least in present (Capitalism) situation, why? Earlier, in Socialism i understood taxes as support for maintaining social equality. But today....? I really don't know?
Ok...i know and i understand..but i do not agree! State gives me big NOTHING so why should i pay anything to it? Ok...forget me, i was born in Socialism and now i am living in very sick verson of musty Capitalism. Let's take USA citizen as much better example. Why USA citizens must pay taxes? What USA gives back to them? What? Everything you must pay for, from your pocket. Nothing is for free. You must work like a horse whole your life to barely survive. Your house is not really yours. Your car is not really yours. You must eat junk food. You must sit on nuclear bomb (nobody asked for you to agree). You must go to war each time "they" decide. If not you, than your children must go to war ...several 000 miles away from your home. Again nobody asked for you to agree. And over all you must pay taxes!? Why? What are you exactly paying for? To watch few rich bustards everyday perversity arround you? I am asking this because i am now in almost the same position, eversince "democracy" knocked on our doors here (without asking me if i want).
So...first step to changes is to stop paying hard earned money for NOTHING.

[ivconic]

Ok...let me put it this way;

if one citizen refuse to pay taxes, he goes to jail and state takes all his goods.
But...if 200-300 millions refuse to pay taxes this year...than what?
.....
That's my idea; to rise sence to majority and to make global change in one simple move. Impossible...? Maybe not!

[Jim]

Sometimes the Government has to step in and save its heritage and history from being destroyed by treasure hunters. The Philippines is a very good example of having to take control of overzealous Yamashi.ta treasure hunters.

[J_Player]

I am 43/44 years old and one thing still is not clear to me at all;
why do we have to pay taxes at all? At least in present (Capitalism) situation, why? Earlier, in Socialism i understood taxes as support for maintaining social equality. But today....? I really don't know?
Ok...i know and i understand..but i do not agree! State gives me big NOTHING so why should i pay anything to it? Ok...forget me, i was born in Socialism and now i am living in very sick verson of musty Capitalism. Let's take USA citizen as much better example. Why USA citizens must pay taxes? What USA gives back to them? What? Everything you must pay for, from your pocket. Nothing is for free. You must work like a horse whole your life to barely survive. Your house is not really yours. Your car is not really yours. You must eat junk food. You must sit on nuclear bomb (nobody asked for you to agree). You must go to war each time "they" decide. If not you, than your children must go to war ...several 000 miles away from your home. Again nobody asked for you to agree. And over all you must pay taxes!? Why? What are you exactly paying for? To watch few rich bustards everyday perversity arround you? I am asking this because i am now in almost the same position, eversince "democracy" knocked on our doors here (without asking me if i want).
So...first step to changes is to stop paying hard earned money for NOTHING.

Maybe it would be good to move your post to the off-topic forum where people will not think they should make posts about the Bionic 01 and treasure.

Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

True. It is off topic.
My mistake.
Bionic subject already crumbled.
Until we hear some personal experience with that device.

[Fred]

For you the answer ivconic:

[ivconic]

It is easy to talk and debate about some concrete stuff. If we had here schematic or part of schematic, photos of Bionic inside....some tech info or something, than it would be joy to talk about it.
But it is tough to talk about something unknown, abstract, relying only on few video clips and loud advertisments. That is general problem with LRL devices. Except those already explored and explained. Funny thing is that all those "explored and explained" turned to be bogus and uselles. Neither one single case to prove oposite!?

[ivconic]

For you the answer ivconic:

:lol: Yes you are right!
Bees are smarter than human! I agree!
:lol:

[J_Player]

True. It is off topic.
My mistake.
Bionic subject already crumbled.
Until we hear some personal experience with that device.

I can give you some answers from an American citizen perspective if you put your post in the off-topic area.
I even agree with much of your post. But I am not an average American citizen.

Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

Ok...
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=105058&posted=1#post105058

[nelson]

I alrady have this publicatión.

Regards

Nelson


This provoked me to check some docs in details...

Personaly i doubt that German Elektor ever posted this article under "Zahori" name.
I think that spanish publisher took freedom to change original title to "Zahori electronico". Most probably the rest of text in article was changed also (to attract more attention or some other reason...?).
Would be nice to see original german Elektor from 10. 1987.

[WM6]

stop paying hard earned money for NOTHING.



Sorry is not for nothing, taxes have to be paid that they can effectively prohibited you from treasure hunting. They protect you from gold, which destroy human characters.

[J_Player]

Sorry is not for nothing, taxes have to be paid that they can effectively prohibited you from treasure hunting. They protect you from gold, which destroy human characters.Should I have the gold fillings removed from my teeth? :???:


Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

Should I have the gold fillings removed from my teeth? :???:


Best wishes,
J_P

Beware! You may become a victim of some Bionic user! :lol: He can remotely locate your gold fillings and than wait you behind the corner....with a huge hammer in hands! :lol::razz::p
You should remove them for sure! :lol:

[WM6]

Should I have the gold fillings removed from my teeth? :???:

J_P

For sure, gold fillings are not compatible with Rangertell, you cannot tested it.

[J_Player]

For sure, gold fillings are not compatible with Rangertell, you cannot tested it.I was concerned about the destruction of human character, but this will be an added bonus.

Best wishes,
J_P

[g-sani]

I think governments have made laws to make the government the owner of all valuable things in their juristiction since the first governments.
A good example is taxes. Most governments collect more taxes than they need to perform the job of keeping thier country orderly.

But for treasure, Spain has made laws to say they own all treasure not only in Spanish territory, but many other places far from Spain. The most fair treasure laws I know of are in the UK, where the treasure hunter can have the joy of finding his treasure, and then will be paid a fair price to sell the treasure to the government to put in a museum. I think this is good, because it encourages treasure hunting, and at the same time it preserves the treasures for their historical value to anyone who wants to see the actual artifacts from ancient civilizations.

Best wishes,
J_P

This is also the truth over here.Government made the laws in such a way as to produce a black market for treasures where the main buyer is them.
They are making personal profit from something that they alone made it an illegal activity.
What a beautifull world we are living.
This is why I still prefer trout fishing and especially in peacefull remote places J_P.

[J_Player]

This is also the truth over here.Government made the laws in such a way as to produce a black market for treasures where the main buyer is them.
They are making personal profit from something that they alone made it an illegal activity.
What a beautifull world we are living.
This is why I still prefer trout fishing and especially in peacefull remote places J_P.Yes,
Trout fishing takes you to a new world that is beautiful, and there is no need to fill your mind with rules and laws or look over your shoulder. :)

Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

This is also the truth over here.Government made the laws in such a way as to produce a black market for treasures where the main buyer is them.
They are making personal profit from something that they alone made it an illegal activity.
What a beautifull world we are living.
This is why I still prefer trout fishing and especially in peacefull remote places J_P.

That is what makes me angry most! All the major malversations (that i remember) related to archaelogical artefacts were done not by individual prospectors - but by governments!

[WM6]

This is why I still prefer trout fishing and especially in peacefull remote places J_P.



What is trout opinion about your position?

[WM6]

All the major malversations (that i remember) related to archaelogical artefacts were done not by individual prospectors - but by governments!



Mean, they were legal malversations.

[g-sani]

What is trout opinion about your position?

Trouts are not skeptics WM6.They travel long distances upstream the same time every year where they leave their eggs to places like the one they were borned.
Nobody teached them what and how to do it but they do it.
Probably it was the need of a safe place at the very beggining and it is inside their DNA by now.
The same happens to man.The need for water made him able to discover it trying many different ways through time.
Well one of the oldest known methods for that is dowsing.
Whith a wooden fork or a single wooden rod or whith nothing at all it was happening and it is still here today.
As simple as that.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I know you didn't like it but thats true.

[hung]

When i travel to Brazil some years ago ,i have in my mind to buy MINEORO becouse of this treasure(spanish galeon). Mr. Damasio told me DC2006 will detect 3 times more in the wather than in land. Afther buy this device,i promise Mr. Damasio and Paulo Torquato to give them one pat of the treasure if Mineoro find the spot,unfortunatly this never hapens...congratulations US ODISSEY &Company ;)

Humm...No Morgan, that's not the cause.
Actually there are times during the day, the fields are not built yet, and depending on this, you may not able to pick it up. Like early in the morning for instance. During the night, humiditiy generally raises and kills the electrostatic fields.
I remember Crespin dos Santos telling me that they were on track of jesuit gold and had already marked the location with his FG80 in his first expedition to the site. In the second time when they recruited more people and equipment to dig, they got to spot at around 8 in the morning. He told me that all the group had to lay under a tree waiting and having conversations until about 10 am when the fields finally could be detected and the spot confirmed.

Bear in mind this is not an unchanging rule. Altough I have never faced this in my expeditions, I believe if you calibrate the knobs in the edge of sensitivity, you will detect it even if the fields are no good yet. Obvsiously it will not be like the perfect scenario with consistent and stable beeps, but you will know where the target is.

Some time ago we finally detected a hystoric gold from pirates down in the ocean. The FG80 had no problem in detecting it. Actually we confirmed with all the LRL in our arsenal... PDC210, DC2008, RT, MIDAS, etc...

We are working on it right now. I tell youthat if you had found that gold in Portugal, you can't imagine how expensive a recovery operation at sea might be. SERIOUS MONEY to spend on salvaging equip, side scans, etc.

Whatever happened to our inocent outdoors hobby of coin hunting...:lol:

Finally, I remember in 2006 when we were after a treasure inside a cave that had previously been detected by the PDC. Detection was clear as fresh water. We got documented proof it was hidden there. The historians just did not know where exactly.
In 1998 as I said my friend now deceased was the first to confirm it was there with his PDC210. He had clear beeps from about 100m. But this cave was behind a waterfall and only became barely visible when the water level at the pond was lower.i This was one of the occasions he detected it.

This site was left untouched for many years while he was making arrangements with the land owner. Finally in 2006 I joined him and the crew to head that location. During the trip, his PDC210 (I had left mine home) got smashed and all that was left were a couple of FG80s.
Early FGs had trouble in the calibration. The capactior charged too much and when the knob was reduced, it used to loose gain. So when we pointed one for the first time, it did not beep at the cave. Then I readjusted, scanning 360 deg and all of a sudden it fired intermintent beeps. Then again I reduced the knob and again... silence. If I did not know the treasure was there, probably I would think this was false beepings... It was hard finding the best calibration, but when I did, it finally stabilized. I thank this 'little fella' because, after we have managed to build a detour for the water flow from above and I dressed my diving suit going floating inside the cave with the FG in hands, it promptly indicated the exact location.Not on the ground, but at the wall, precisely.

Good times....
Best of luck Morgan.

[WM6]

Actually there are times during the day, the fields are not built yet, and depending on this, you may not able to pick it up. Like early in the morning for instance. During the night, humiditiy generally raises and kills the electrostatic fields.

.

Hi hung,

it is not field, you forgot that his body do not resonate proper on second dimension frequency of 6.57 Hz. He has to be tuned at those frequency before searching. Some nose piercing potentiometer of obout 37k will do a good job.

[Esteban]

Fred wrote: As far as i know, you made no experiments, only observations of an apparent phenomenon.
Everything in science needs observation AND scientific explanation.

I wonder why the ones convinced LRL work cannot prove it - even if only with a good video.

* * * * * * * * *

The experiments are made outdoor, no indoor, and all the conditions in outdoor you can't reproduce in the labo, like some natural process. I explain it many times...

If you post a process in wich you "show" the digging and "finding" a supossed treasure, this is not proof that you find a treasure. You can plant for to demonstrate that you and your MD "found" the "treasure". Even if MD is based in scientific principles. In the same way, pistols are based in electrical/magnetic principles... but your position against it is more strong than it.

[Esteban]

I think real videos should be like this one :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iKs2y97bpQ&feature=related

and if you watch carefully you can see his real machine in the background without and mean to show up.

You don't need MD detector in Stalingrad, Minsk, Tsaritsa, Don, Volga, Leningrad, Mamaiev Kurgan..., etc., etc. in all parts you can found millions tons of metal using a shovel in any part you put it... :lol:

[hung]

Com todo o respeito ao Sr.Damasio,MAS VERDADES SOBRE A MINEORO TEM DE SER REVELADAS. É UM APARELHO QUE NÃO FUNCIONA TODOS OS DIAS :(

Sorry Morgan, my post above was refering to this quote and not the one in my post. Please discard it.
Regards.

[Fred]

... but your position against it is more strong than it.
You are wrong, i have no position against anything.I guess i have a somewhat scientific mind, and i just WANT to be convinced that LR detection works.
For that , i need some scientific evidence.Outdoors , indoors or whatever.
A good video, made scientifically and neutrally, with no intention to convince but only to show, could be enough.


Hung, interesting story.But my advice is you go back to your Tintin and the Incas reading.

[hung]

I guess i have a somewhat scientific mind, and i just WANT to be convinced that LR detection works.
For that , i need some scientific evidence.Outdoors , indoors or whatever.
A good video, made scientifically and neutrally, with no intention to convince but only to show, could be enough.


I stoped by to read some fun from skeptics, but now I see your case is serious. This is not a joke.
I suggest two choices. See which one fits your budget better.

One choice is go buying any LRL of your taste, I do mean any of them. Move your *** from your chair and go get the gold. You need to find gold at least once or you will have a serious nervous breakdown.

The other is arranging a package deal of consultations with the best psychiatrist in your town to see if he can cure you in a given number of sessions.
Again, I am not kidding. Your sentence above is the real evidence that you suffer from high insecureness and gets affected bad psychologically speaking. I just don't know how you still have a job. Or maybe you don't anymore.
But don't panic yet. There's still hope.

Follow my advice above and quickly go treat your health.
As for me, sorry, I promise I will not waste my time bothering you anymore. Clearly it's not worth it.

And I think also Esteban is getting in the limits of his patience.
Go get help now while still in time!

[Fred]

:lol::lol::lol:

This is you answer just because i just asked for a simple video for a "phenomenon" you claim to exist, year after year, but you could never demonstrate ??!! :lol:

Look like you´re getting.... nervous ??:shrug:.
Good luck !

[putrechigi]

yes morgan maitbe marco want only sell the 01 and this is the best negative mode to make this,i don't said you must buy this because he work very well or he find gold at many meters but if i find some picture or video i post for everibody
last sanday i'm not with him because ha doesn't came near at my village i promise at forum that i don't give my test with him because if he work or not many people not belive me not belive at hall and this is not the spirit of the forum but if i find some pieces of gold wen i test it i will said, only this at now i give only what i find in web sites ero youtube

best reguards

[WesP]

[quote=hung;105135]
Actually there are times during the day, the fields are not built yet, and depending on this, you may not able to pick it up. Like early in the morning for instance. During the night, humidity generally raises and kills the electrostatic fields.:|

SO if the humidity is high it kills off the field....... :frown:

[quote=hung;105135]
I dressed my diving suit going floating inside the cave with the FG in hands, it promptly indicated the exact location.Not on the ground, but at the wall, precisely.

But inside a cave behind a waterfall it the humidity is low enough for the FG80 to work?? Can you explain how the humidity inside a water covered cave could that low. :shocked:

[Fred]

:lol: be prepared for an evasive condescend answer

[Qiaozhi]

Some time ago we finally detected a hystoric gold from pirates down in the ocean. The FG80 had no problem in detecting it. Actually we confirmed with all the LRL in our arsenal... PDC210, DC2008, RT, MIDAS, etc...
In other words, you "confirmed" the gold that you detected with a worthless non-working device by using an arsenal of other worthless non-working devices. Sounds like a good plan. :lol:

We are working on it right now. I tell youthat if you had found that gold in Portugal, you can't imagine how expensive a recovery operation at sea might be. SERIOUS MONEY to spend on salvaging equip, side scans, etc.
I would be very careful. Whoever puts their hands in their pockets for this one will want their money back when they find there's really nothing there. :razz: Guess who they're going to come looking for?

Whatever happened to our inocent outdoors hobby of coin hunting...:lol:
At least it's not total fantasy. You need to stop reading (and believing) the Harry Potter books. Perhaps someone put one on the non-fiction shelf at the library and you got confused. :rolleyes:

Finally, I remember in 2006 when we were after a treasure inside a cave that had previously been detected by the PDC. Detection was clear as fresh water. We got documented proof it was hidden there. The historians just did not know where exactly.
In 1998 as I said my friend now deceased was the first to confirm it was there with his PDC210. He had clear beeps from about 100m. But this cave was behind a waterfall and only became barely visible when the water level at the pond was lower.i This was one of the occasions he detected it.
I remember you reporting this one some time ago. As I recall there was no treasure recovered.

[Theseus]

In other words, you "confirmed" the gold that you detected with a worthless non-working device by using an arsenal of other worthless non-working devices. Sounds like a good plan. :lol:


I would be very careful. Whoever puts their hands in their pockets for this one will want their money back when they find there's really nothing there. :razz: Guess who they're going to come looking for?


At least it's not total fantasy. You need to stop reading (and believing) the Harry Potter books. Perhaps someone put one on the non-fiction shelf at the library and you got confused. :rolleyes:


I remember you reporting this one some time ago. As I recall there was no treasure recovered.

:thumb: Spanked again.

[Qiaozhi]

:thumb: Spanked again.
Don't you just love it? :D
I've always said that Hung is a masochist.

[g-sani]

You don't need MD detector in Stalingrad, Minsk, Tsaritsa, Don, Volga, Leningrad, Mamaiev Kurgan..., etc., etc. in all parts you can found millions tons of metal using a shovel in any part you put it... :lol:

Hi Esteban, I want you to do me a favour my friend.
Just explain to me what Tsaritsa suppose to mean because you might be of great help for something I have in my mind for a long time.
May be is just a synonymous word and nothing more.
I am waiting your post to see if it is one or another.
Thanks in advance, g-sani

[g-sani]

You said Hung,
Humm...No Morgan, that's not the cause.
Actually there are times during the day, the fields are not built yet, and depending on this, you may not able to pick it up. Like early in the morning for instance. During the night, humiditiy generally raises and kills the electrostatic fields.


Well Hung, you are giving away treasure explaining reality my friend.
I strongly agree that it is certain times of the day or certain weather conditions that somebody should go out in order to detect from a distance.And I am talking for both dowsing or LRLs(to the ones known today).
No matter what and no matter the LRL the phenomenon is always there applied but whith certain limitations.
I am not willing of saying anything more because this time my post is up for all these that can understand.
Hung said enough and more than me anyway.;)

[J_Player]

Humm...No Morgan, that's not the cause.
Actually there are times during the day, the fields are not built yet, and depending on this, you may not able to pick it up. Like early in the morning for instance. During the night, humiditiy generally raises and kills the electrostatic fields.


Hi Hung, you are giving away treasure explaining reality my friend.
I strongly agree that it is certain times of the day or certain weather conditions that somebody should go out in order to detect from a distance.And I am talking for both dowsing or LRLs(to the ones known today).
No matter what and no matter the LRL the phenomenon is always there applied whith certain limitations.
I am not willing of saying anything more because this time my post is up for all these that can understand.
For the rest Hung said enough and more than me anyway.;) Hi g-sani,

There is no secret to the daily cycles you are talking about. I have made posts telling the hours many times. hung has historically disagreed about the times I posted, but in this post I hear some times more similar to what I have been saying. I know the times that work where I am from experience and the experience of others who use very sensitive electronic equipment. The fact is the exact hour of the day is not the same in different locations on the earth. You will find they are not the same for South America as they are where you are. And the times in South America are not the same as what has been mapped for North America. This is why hung finds different times than I do. The time cycles you are referring to are caused by natural movement of ionospheric layers as the earth revolves. Radio engineers are aware of these cycles, and adjust their transmitter antennas accordingly so people can receive their signals as the ionospheric layers change.

Any specific times you post are only good for your area or other areas that happen to have the same time cycles.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

Ok...let me put it this way;

if one citizen refuse to pay taxes, he goes to jail and state takes all his goods.
But...if 200-300 millions refuse to pay taxes this year...than what?
.....
That's my idea; to rise sence to majority and to make global change in one simple move. Impossible...? Maybe not!

Hi

I agree with you,i share the same ideias(about taxes)
Unfortunatly most of the people think diferent from us,they like to be slaves of the modern society...

Lets go again to the BIONIC 01 ,each unit they sold for 10K euro,part of this money go to government as taxes (IVA) .So they believe in LRL´s :D

[ivconic]

Hi

I agree with you,i share the same ideias(about taxes)
Unfortunatly most of the people think diferent from us,they like to be slaves of the modern society...

Lets go again to the BIONIC 01 ,each unit they sold for 10K euro,part of this money go to government as taxes (IVA) .So they believe in LRL´s :D

Least! I know some governments that beleive in drugs also! :angry:

[WM6]

SO if the humidity is high it kills off the field....... :frown:

But inside a cave behind a waterfall it the humidity is low enough for the FG80 to work?? Can you explain how the humidity inside a water covered cave could that low. :shocked:




There is humidity and "humidity". In case of hung we are speaking of "humidity" that suit buyers of crappy thigs stupidity.


Not only behind waterfalls, but 100 m deep in the ocean also.
At the same time humidity in desert are too high if "humidity" suit scamer excuse why crappy things is not working.

[WM6]

I tell youthat if you had found that gold in Portugal, you can't imagine how expensive a recovery operation at sea might be. SERIOUS MONEY to spend on salvaging equip, side scans, etc.



Scamers not only to rob naive buyers of non working crappy LRL, but they finally laughing and mocks to him.

[g-sani]

Hi g-sani,

There is no secret to the daily cycles you are talking about. I have made posts telling the hours many times. hung has historically disagreed about the times I posted, but in this post I hear some times more similar to what I have been saying. I know the times that work where I am from experience and the experience of others who use very sensitive electronic equipment. The fact is the exact hour of the day is not the same in different locations on the earth. You will find they are not the same for South America as they are where you are. And the times in South America are not the same as what has been mapped for North America. This is why hung finds different times than I do. The time cycles you are referring to are caused by natural movement of ionospheric layers as the earth revolves. Radio engineers are aware of these cycles, and adjust their transmitter antennas accordingly so people can receive their signals as the ionospheric layers change.

Any specific times you post are only good for your area or other areas that happen to have the same time cycles.

Best wishes,
J_P

Sorry J_P I didn't read this post of yours.
I wanted to ask you something.
Do you say there are intervals during daytime that metals stop emiting this sort of energy that gives us the signal for an LRL to work?
Regards, g-sani

[Esteban]

Hi Esteban, I want you to do me a favour my friend.
Just explain to me what Tsaritsa suppose to mean because you might be of great help for something I have in my mind for a long time.
May be is just a synonymous word and nothing more.
I am waiting your post to see if it is one or another.
Thanks in advance, g-sani

Tsaritsa river is near Stalingrad (today Volgograd). This was scenario of biggest battle in the story (Stalingrad). The ancient name of Stalingrad (today Volgograd) was Tsaritsin... similar to Tsaritsa. Tsaritsa (Czarina) also refer the wife of the Tsar. This word is derivation of the ancient name for Romans emperor, Caesar. General Chuikov, master defender of Stalingrad, chief of the 62th Soviet Army of Riffles, had a headquarter in the zone of Tsaritsa river.

[Geo]

Tsaritsa river is near Stalingrad (today Volgograd). This was scenario of biggest battle in the story (Stalingrad). The ancient name of Stalingrad (today Volgograd) was Tsaritsin... similar to Tsaritsa. Tsaritsa (Czarina) also refer the wife of the Tsar. This word is derivation of the ancient name for Romans emperor, Caesar. General Chuikov, master defender of Stalingrad, chief of the 62th Soviet Army of Riffles, had a headquarter in the zone of Tsaritsa river.


Ohhhh Great Esteban, now you will learn us story.
Congratulation:)

Regards:)

[ivconic]

Tsaritsa river is near Stalingrad (today Volgograd). This was scenario of biggest battle in the story (Stalingrad). The ancient name of Stalingrad (today Volgograd) was Tsaritsin... similar to Tsaritsa. Tsaritsa (Czarina) also refer the wife of the Tsar. This word is derivation of the ancient name for Romans emperor, Caesar. General Chuikov, master defender of Stalingrad, chief of the 62th Soviet Army of Riffles, had a headquarter in the zone of Tsaritsa river.

"Tsaritsa" is also serbian word "carica" and means queen. But "tsar" or serbian "car" is not exactly the same as king or serbian "kralj". Funny because those two words meaning exactly the same, also "carica" and "kraljica" have the very same meaning.
I think "tsar" or "car" are generally slavic (russian,serbian etc..etc..) words for king. Although russian and serbian language differs much, still there are lot of words exaclty the same in both languages.

[ivconic]

Stalingrad , Volgograd

grad is city :lol: Stalincity, Volgocity.....

Beograd (Belgrade - serbian capital) = Beo (white) grad (city) = Whitecity!

.....


Washington = to wash "ington" !!! (btw what was "ington" ???) :lol::razz::p
NewYork = new York (better than OldYork!) :razz::lol::p

[hung]

[quote=hung;105135]
Actually there are times during the day, the fields are not built yet, and depending on this, you may not able to pick it up. Like early in the morning for instance. During the night, humidity generally raises and kills the electrostatic fields.:|

SO if the humidity is high it kills off the field....... :frown:


I dressed my diving suit going floating inside the cave with the FG in hands, it promptly indicated the exact location.Not on the ground, but at the wall, precisely.

But inside a cave behind a waterfall it the humidity is low enough for the FG80 to work?? Can you explain how the humidity inside a water covered cave could that low. :shocked:

Hey WesP... You are right, electrostatics and humidity don't combine. But ionic activity is non stopping.
In high humidity, with the lack of electrostatics, the device can't work at long range but it will detect gold from a short distance exclusively due to the ionic activity. Of course the bigger the mass, the better.

From outside the cave in sunny days I could get the signal from about 300-400 feet average with the FG80. Inside it, being a high humidity environment and only a few feet from it, I had no trouble in pinpointing it. That's why I succeeded.
If you have read Damasio's explanation in Mineoro's site you know that electrostatics is the transportation mean to the gold ions and the reason it can be detected from large distances.

Best regards.

[hung]

You said Hung,
Humm...No Morgan, that's not the cause.
Actually there are times during the day, the fields are not built yet, and depending on this, you may not able to pick it up. Like early in the morning for instance. During the night, humiditiy generally raises and kills the electrostatic fields.


Well Hung, you are giving away treasure explaining reality my friend.
I strongly agree that it is certain times of the day or certain weather conditions that somebody should go out in order to detect from a distance.And I am talking for both dowsing or LRLs(to the ones known today).
No matter what and no matter the LRL the phenomenon is always there applied but whith certain limitations.
I am not willing of saying anything more because this time my post is up for all these that can understand.
Hung said enough and more than me anyway.;)

Hey g-sani, the skeptics here are hard headed. You need to keep repeating the same thing until they are able to understand and learn. But you are right. Once is enough.
As WesP never asked me anything I cared to answer his doutbt. I hope he understands it the first time, because I will not repeat myself again.

Regards.

[J_Player]

Sorry J_P I didn't read this post of yours.
I wanted to ask you something.
Do you say there are intervals during daytime that metals stop emiting this sort of energy that gives us the signal for an LRL to work?
Regards, g-saniNo. It really depends on what signal you are measuring. Some signals show a large change in strength while others do not. What you will see change during the day is natural noise interference from the sources in the air. It is a problem of signal to noise ratio that is seen on instruments that are trying to measure extremely small signals in the air. The changes in the ionosphere are responsible for allowing the natural noise level to become strong enough to interfere. If you are measuring a signal that fluctuates in strength during the day, then it can become weak enough to be lost in the noise. At least one of the signals that fluctuate are weak early in the morning and become stronger over the first few hours of daylight. But there are no fixed rules because the times change during different months and seasons, as well as with weather and solar activity. The problem is it also depends on the location. No two places are alike. So any times a person tells you are only good for their location, not yours. The best way to find the times for your area is to use a known target and take readings many times during the day. And repeat this over a number of days until you see a pattern. These will also have seasonal changes and change with solar activity and weather. But you should find a pattern if you check a number of days during the same week when the weather is the same. In my area we found the most consistent measurements in the morning when measuring a signal that does not change its strength a large amount.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Ohhhh Great Esteban, now you will learn us story.
Congratulation:)

Regards:)

IIWW is very interesting... more for no repeat it anymore!

Regards

[Esteban]

"Tsaritsa" is also serbian word "carica" and means queen. But "tsar" or serbian "car" is not exactly the same as king or serbian "kralj". Funny because those two words meaning exactly the same, also "carica" and "kraljica" have the very same meaning.
I think "tsar" or "car" are generally slavic (russian,serbian etc..etc..) words for king. Although russian and serbian language differs much, still there are lot of words exaclty the same in both languages.


You're right. Also Bulgaria (like Russia) had his Tsar and Tsarina... the king and queen. One famous:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_III_of_Bulgaria

[Morgan]

Scamers not only to rob naive buyers of non working crappy LRL, but they finally laughing and mocks to him.
You forget the time and money spent in searching for treasure with useles LRL devices,i know many people who fall into this trap...

[Morgan]

You're right. Also Bulgaria (like Russia) had his Tsar and Tsarina... the king and queen. One famous:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_III_of_Bulgaria
Very interesting points about WWII,Czars and Czarinas.
I already visit Moscow many times,its amazing all the curch in gold :shocked:
And the Armory museum in Red Square(tons of gold in jewllery) :shocked::shocked::shocked:

Lets return to BIONIC-01 ;)10899

10900

[WM6]

You forget the time and money spent in searching for treasure with useles LRL devices,i know many people who fall into this trap...



Yes, you are right, but we can hope that those are at least learn some electronics and have a high standard amenities.

[putrechigi]

for esteban and hung, can you make a video for youtube about your lrl, i know many person will said that not work:frown::frown: but i want to see fg80 and other lrl at work for one time please:):)
reguards

[g-sani]

Tsaros in Greek means also King, and Tsaritsa you could call the Queen.
There is an old script talking about where the Great Alexander is burried.
They say that this ancient code is kept in the orthodox patriarchate of Moscow.
It is saying something about mountain Tsaritsa.

[g-sani]

No. It really depends on what signal you are measuring. Some signals show a large change in strength while others do not. What you will see change during the day is natural noise interference from the sources in the air. It is a problem of signal to noise ratio that is seen on instruments that are trying to measure extremely small signals in the air. The changes in the ionosphere are responsible for allowing the natural noise level to become strong enough to interfere. If you are measuring a signal that fluctuates in strength during the day, then it can become weak enough to be lost in the noise. At least one of the signals that fluctuate are weak early in the morning and become stronger over the first few hours of daylight. But there are no fixed rules because the times change during different months and seasons, as well as with weather and solar activity. The problem is it also depends on the location. No two places are alike. So any times a person tells you are only good for their location, not yours. The best way to find the times for your area is to use a known target and take readings many times during the day. And repeat this over a number of days until you see a pattern. These will also have seasonal changes and change with solar activity and weather. But you should find a pattern if you check a number of days during the same week when the weather is the same. In my area we found the most consistent measurements in the morning when measuring a signal that does not change its strength a large amount.

Best wishes,
J_P

Dear J_P you are always like talking and explaining scientifically everything and I don't blame you for that.
I have a rule for detecting times myself which from experience I know is right.
It applies for both dowsing and also to the LRLs I used up to now.
(Gold gun, Mineoro, generator-L rods, electroscope and just yesterday RT like pistol)
I will try to explain the code I have when I am going out for distant Treasure Hunting
It has to be daytime whith low humidity and whith no much water on earth.If it rained the previous day and we now have lots of sun drying the soil is one of my best times to go out treasure hunting.Too many dry sunny days is allright but not that good.I always stop 1hour before sunset and usually I start after 9 oclock summer time and after 10.00am during winter.This depends upon temperature rising different hours every day or season.I found out that best time no matter the season is when temperature is close to get its highest value for this certain day.
And finally I always visit a place at least no more than twice choosing on purpose different times and different weather conditions.
I do that even when I am sure that it is something there even from the first time because this adds up to my experience.Digging a target doesn't teach you much as using it to learn more since it is still there in the most real and non imitating conditions.

[J_Player]

Dear J_P you are always like talking and explaining scientifically everything and I don't blame you for that.
I have a rule for detecting times myself which from experience I know is right.
It applies for both dowsing and also to the LRLs I used up to now.
(Gold gun, Mineoro, generator-L rods, electroscope and just yesterday RT like pistol)
I will try to explain the code I have when I am going out for distant Treasure Hunting
It has to be daytime whith low humidity and whith no much water on earth.If it rained the previous day and we now have lots of sun drying the soil is one of my best times to go out treasure hunting.Too many dry sunny days is allright but not that good.I always stop 1hour before sunset and usually I start after 9 oclock summer time and after 10.00am during winter.This depends upon temperature rising different hours every day or season.I found out that best time no matter the season is when temperature is close to get its highest value for this certain day.
And finally I always visit a place at least no more than twice choosing on purpose different times and different weather conditions.
I do that even when I am sure that it is something there even from the first time because this adds up to my experience.Digging a target doesn't teach you much as using it to learn more since it is still there in the most real and non imitating conditions.Hi g-sani

I think you are right. If you dig a target, this is only good for one time to prove to other people you can recover the target. But if you don't need to prove anything, you can use the target for testing. The problem is you don't know what the target is that you are testing. Maybe it is only a hot spot on the ground. Morgan has a good target because he buried it himself a long time ago. He knows for sure what his target is.

From what you say, the times sound reasonable and similar to what other people have found. I cannot verify what signals you are detecting because I don't know exactly what signals you are detecting. But I can give you an opinion based on what I have learned about the behaviour of some signals.

You say your signals are found when the air is dry. This suggests that what you are detecting a signal that depends on an electrical differential between the atmospheric charge and the ground to be detected. The hot temperatures can help to improve the insulating property of the air so the charge can he higher.

Wet soil after a rain that is beginning to dry is still very wet below. But much of the surface moisture is gone so there is not so much moisture evaporating into the air as before the surface dried. Theoretically, this should bring a condition where the ground is conductive, but the air has lost a lot of its conductivity from the previous rain. It should result in a better charge difference between the air and the ground after the surface is drying.

We know there is a voltage gradient in the air above the ground that usually varies between 100-300v/meter depending on weather conditions and seasons. In normal conditions, this will become stronger when the air is dry and the soil is conductive. But there are anomalies in this charge gradient. if you have a plant growing, it acts like a grounding rod that moves the ground potential up into the air where the plant is. So you see the voltage in the air more when you move away from the plant. This is also true for some locations in flat ground without tall plants. Some ground is more conductive than other ground. Mineralised ground is more conductive than ground that is not mineralised. The mineralised ground will have an anomaly in the charge to the air above it so you see less voltage above the mineralised area. The reason is because the current leaking to the atmosphere will favour the places in the ground that are more conductive. When there is more current leaking from the ground, the voltage in the air will become less than nearby areas with less current leaking.

In addition to mineralised ground, there are telluric currents flowing through the ground that fluctuate on a daily cycle. These currents often follow conductive ground paths, but not always. The currents move in specific directions because of the magnetic field of the earth, and they change because of the movement of ionosphere layers and atmospheric voltage gradient changes as the earth revolves. These currents can contribute to anomalies that are seen in the charge of the air above.

One theory is that buried metals cause chemical activity in the soil that make it more conductive the same as if it was mineralised. You can measure the greater mineralisation in the soil near rusting iron. But not for all metals. So the theory continues that it is chemical activity that improves the soil conductivity for most buried metals. This also suggests that there is corrosion of these metals, which has also been measured in small amounts.

But the signal you are measuring?
I never measured any signal from a dowsing rod or LRL pistol coming from a target yet. So I don't know what kind of signal it is. I only know claims of molecular frequencies, ions shorting, VLF etc, but no facts to verify.

However, the signals I have measured are influenced by the things you are talking about like time of the day, weather, soil conditions etc. From what you described, it sounds like whatever you measured probably depends on a static charge in the air, as well as good ground conductivity to be seen best. This is only my guess from the things you said.

Here is one thing you could try if you think you have a target that is not too deep. You can dig it without actually removing it. I mean maybe it is possible to pinpoint the target location, then put a long blade into the ground to contact the target. Then move the soil only enough to make a crevice where you can see what the target is. Then you could close the soil without disturbing it other than the incision you made. With some luck, the closed incision would keep the same soil conditions at the target so it will be still good to use for testing after you know what you are detecting.

A second thing you should do soon is to bury some metal things in a place where you can test. It will take some time for chemical action to start creating soil anomalies, but the clock will never start until put something into the ground.

Best wishes,
J_P

[g-sani]

The only LRL that I trust most is a frequency generator sending signals to both ground and air and this is what I am using when serious treasure hunting is taking place. But this one has an advantage comparing to other similar LRLs in the market.
Before the time to use my rods to go on target I have a received back signal in a simple measuring instrument(normal Voltage meter) telling me if the metal in search is present.If it is so then and only then I use the rods to find the target.
I can even get the distance on the same meter but whith a big tolerance, may be even 25% in a 500m distance.All this again whith just turning one knob in the meter.
Up to know I have never had a ghost target and I mean that I could always pick up the metal that gave me the signal.Also I never had a case of getting gold on the meter and then go there and see that it is another metal instead of gold.
This is an LRL of not known manufacturer.A guy made it for us but it was paid a lot of money which I very well know that it was not for its electronics for sure.But believe me you don't mind if it does its job.
It paid back after short time anyway.
I know that it is too good to be true but it is.
So I am using this first and then I try going there whith my other LRLs practising and most of the times even before confirming the target using my DFX or Deepmax X3.Mind you that wherever I can I always dig the target at the end.

[J_Player]

The only LRL that I trust most is a frequency generator sending signals to both ground and air and this is what I am using when serious treasure hunting is taking place. But this one has an advantage comparing to other similar LRLs in the market.
Before the time to use my rods to go on target I have a received back signal in a simple measuring instrument(normal Voltage meter) telling me if the metal in search is present.If it is so then and only then I use the rods to find the target.
I can even get the distance on the same meter but whith a big tolerance, may be even 25% in a 500m distance.All this again whith just turning one knob in the meter.
Up to know I have never had a ghost target and I mean that I could always pick up the metal that gave me the signal.Also I never had a case of getting gold on the meter and then go there and see that it is another metal instead of gold.
This is an LRL of not known manufacturer.A guy made it for us but it was paid a lot of money which I very well know that it was not for its electronics for sure.But believe me you don't mind if it does its job.
It paid back after short time anyway.
I know that it is too good to be true but it is.
So I am using this first and then I try going there whith my other LRLs practising and most of the times even before confirming the target using my DFX or Deepmax X3.Mind you that wherever I can I always dig the target at the end.What signal is the LRL sending?
Is this a sine wave? a square wave? What duty cycle? what frequency?

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

I can even get the distance on the same meter but whith a big tolerance, may be even 25% in a 500m distance.All this again whith just turning one knob in the meter.

..... before confirming the target using my DFX or Deepmax X3.



So, you get first circle of surface with diameter of 125 m by using LRL.

Than you search inside this circle of 125m dia by DFX or DeepMax X3.

And find something, but never find gold.

And you say LRL is working for you?

[Geo]

So, you get first circle of surface with diameter of 125 m by using LRL.

Than you search inside this circle of 125m dia by DFX or DeepMax X3.

And find something, but never find gold.

And you say LRL is working for you?

Hahaha...
You can say everything you want:lol:
BUT, you must know, that Gsani has found a Big treasure:lol:.
He don't speak on "air"

Regards:)

[Geo]

What signal is the LRL sending?
Is this a sine wave? a square wave? What duty cycle? what frequency?

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P.
At my opinion the problem is not the form of the signal but the way that a simple multimeter measure the receiving system. If there is the desired metal near the generator the a multimeter gives a reading:rolleyes:.

Regards

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
At my opinion the problem is not the form of the signal but the way that a simple multimeter measure the receiving system. If there is the desired metal near the generator the a multimeter gives a reading:rolleyes:.

RegardsHi Geo,

I see no problems. Only a question of what is being measured.

If a meter is showing a DC microvolt measurement, it would not be measuring the same signal as if it was measuring an AC volt signal.
And if you had an analog meter, it may not be able to measure the same frequencies as a digital meter.
This is why I ask what is the frequency, and wave type, as well as the amount of signal that is seen on the meter scale.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Hahaha...
You can say everything you want:lol:
BUT, you must know, that Gsani has found a Big treasure:lol:.
He don't speak on "air"



Geo, if g-sani sell LRL-s, I belive, he found a Big treasure.

[g-sani]

What signal is the LRL sending?
Is this a sine wave? a square wave? What duty cycle? what frequency?

Best wishes,
J_P

The only thing I know is that I put 5300 in the freq.generator for gold.
And the other thing is that when we have the metal in search in the area we are searching then we get a meter reading that is always changing.
It is a four digit number that goes up quickly from zero to a thousand(may be even more for a strong signal) and then comes back again to zero and then up again quickly and so on.
When we open our meter to see the receiving signal and it stays at zero that means that there is no such a target in our searching area as the one we are looking for.
I am curious to check some things like the ones you are asking J_P but I do not want to try and open it because I know that this LRL patent is secured and then I might loose the service as well.This is what we agreed whith the person we paid when we bought it.
You see there was no guarantee whith it and the guy promised us that he can always do a free service if needed but only if nobody else had put a hand on it.
This LRL paid back its money although it looked like a risk at the begining.

[g-sani]

Geo, if g-sani sell LRL-s, I belive, he found a Big treasure.

I don't sell LRLs my friend but to tell you the truth I am still wondering why I never did it.:D

[Geo]

Geo, if g-sani sell LRL-s, I belive, he found a Big treasure.

The same again......
when you will stop thinking with so much mischief ???

[Geo]

Hi Geo,

I see no problems. Only a question of what is being measured.

If a meter is showing a DC microvolt measurement, it would not be measuring the same signal as if it was measuring an AC volt signal.
And if you had an analog meter, it may not be able to measure the same frequencies as a digital meter.
This is why I ask what is the frequency, and wave type, as well as the amount of signal that is seen on the meter scale.

Best wishes,
J_P

I believe that the signal is sine.... and the multimeter is a digital multimeter but not at volt range. They have delete the cantran of the multiswitch, so who knows?????
I saw a photo of a similar generator so this is the reason that i speak about it.

Regards

[J_Player]

The only thing I know is that I put 5300 in the freq.generator for gold.
And the other thing is that when we have the metal in search in the area we are searching then we get a meter reading that is always changing.
It is a four digit number that goes up quickly from zero to a thousand(may be even more for a strong signal) and then comes back again to zero and then up again quickly and so on.
When we open our meter to see the receiving signal and it stays at zero that means that there is no such a target in our searching area as the one we are looking for.
I am curious to check some things like the ones you are asking J_P but I do not want to try and open it because I know that this LRL patent is secured and then I might loose the service as well.This is what we agreed whith the person we paid when we bought it.
You see there was no guarantee whith it and the guy promised us that he can always do a free service if needed but only if nobody else had put a hand on it.
This LRL paid back its money although it looked like a risk at the begining.Hi g-sani,
Ok i did not know you were talking about the LRL. I thought you also used a signal generator and simple voltmeter from your workshop.
I was reading your earlier post: The only LRL that I trust most is a frequency generator sending signals to both ground and air and this is what I am using when serious treasure hunting is taking place.
It is not necessary to open and take a chance of breaking the pistol.
The meter on your LRL is modified, and is no longer a simple voltmeter. If this is a multimeter, then maybe it is measuring milliamps from the circuit, or maybe AC millivolts, or DC microvolts other setting.

When you say it is a signal generator, and simple voltmeter, you know this only because the builder of the pistol told you these things,
not because you tested for the signal frequency with a frequency counter. Is this correct?

You also said this LRL sends a signal to the air and to the ground.
How is the signal put to the ground? Are there ground probes to push in the ground?

Can you show a photo of this this LRL with the meter so we can see it?

Best wishes,
J_P

[g-sani]

It is nothing to see there J_P since it is not something they sell in the market.
If you are that curious Geo can always send you the photo through a pm and you can have a look at it but I think this means nothing.
Regards, g-sani

[J_Player]

It is nothing to see there J_P since it is not something they sell in the market.
If you are that curious Geo can always send you the photo through a pm and you can have a look at it but I think this means nothing.
Regards, g-saniSure it means something.
Not for the purpose to buy one, only to see if there are ground probes to push in the ground, or if it uses an antenna or a coil.
Nobody knows these things because you did not say except it makes a frequency and has a simple volt meter.
No idea if there are ground probes or antenna or LEDs to see. No idea of what scale the simple volt meter is reading.
This means we also have no idea what kind of signal is measured... magnetic, electric, IR, heat, light, RF, AF, current, voltage, AC, DC?
We cannot learn anything about what is measured except "secret phenomenon".

Maybe a photo will help for learning. But I don't think PM can work for sending photos.

Best wishes,
J_P

[g-sani]

Sure it means something.
Not for the purpose to buy one, only to see if there are ground probes to push in the ground, or if it uses an antenna or a coil.
Nobody knows these things because you did not say except it makes a frequency and has a simple volt meter.
No idea if there are ground probes or antenna or LEDs to see. No idea of what scale the simple volt meter is reading.
This means we also have no idea what kind of signal is measured... magnetic, electric, IR, heat, light, RF, AF, current, voltage, AC, DC?
We cannot learn anything about what is measured except "secret phenomenon".

Maybe a photo will help for learning. But I don't think PM can work for sending photos.

Best wishes,
J_P

You send signals to both ground and air using two bronze probes for ground and a small telescopic antena for air.I don't want to put a photo here in the forum and please accept my apologies.You see it was quite some money involved tax free and I am sure that the guy sold it doesn't want this type of advertisement.If it was made from a manufacturer it could be no problem at all.
Check your e-mail J_P.
Regards, g-sani

[WM6]

You see it was quite some money involved tax free and I am sure that the guy sold it doesn't want this type of advertisement.

.


Only secret scam is safe scam.

[Qiaozhi]

I am curious to check some things like the ones you are asking J_P but I do not want to try and open it because I know that this LRL patent is secured and then I might loose the service as well.
Please can you tell us the patent number issued for this device?

[g-sani]

Only secret scam is safe scam.

Scam or not did the job WM6.

[g-sani]

Please can you tell us the patent number issued for this device?

Of course there was no patent number Qiaozhi.When I said above ..he patented I just waned to say it was his private design or idea.Sorry for the missunderstanding.

[J_Player]

You send signals to both ground and air using two bronze probes for ground and a small telescopic antena for air.I don't want to put a photo here in the forum and please accept my apologies.You see it was quite some money involved tax free and I am sure that the guy sold it doesn't want this type of advertisement.If it was made from a manufacturer it could be no problem at all.
Check your e-mail J_P.
Regards, g-saniOk g-sani, thank you for answering questions.

There is no images from the PMs, but from what you described, this is similar to the project carl shows for making an MFD detector that uses brass ground probes. Maybe a little different. This sounds like probably a standard MFD detector.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Of course there was no patent number Qiaozhi.When I said above ..he patented I just waned to say it was his private design or idea.Sorry for the missunderstanding.
Thanks. I thought that might be the answer. ;)

[Geo]

Thanks. I thought that might be the answer. ;)


What are you mean :cool:

[Esteban]

Scam or not did the job WM6.

Don't expend time in discussion with this guy.

[WM6]

Don't expend time in discussion with this guy.



Congratulation Esteban! This is your 100 appeal with the same content.

YOU WIN !!!! last model of LRL CALCULATOR!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/jeffzycinski/2008/05/images/abacus.jpg (http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=congratulations+this+is++you+win&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:sl:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=Wk9YS8bqIcL0_AbEnPH0Aw&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCAQqwQwAw)

Technical data:

- 100 bite of dynamic memory
- color touch display
- portable
- accu free work
- can represent graphic
- work at night by touch & click
- usable as foot massage
- wire guide resonate at gold frequency
- humidity protected
- work on all continents
- scientific functions in normal format (not stamp sized)
- can calculate between gold hunting
- and much much more

Give us your full name and addresse to ship imediatelly.
(http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=congratulations+this+is++you+win&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:sl:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=Wk9YS8bqIcL0_AbEnPH0Aw&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCAQqwQwAw)

[Qiaozhi]

What are you mean :cool:
Although I read ane re-read the post several times, I couldn't decide whether g-sani was saying that the device was patented, or whether this was a misuse of the word "patent". I was expecting the latter. Nothing mysterious ... or even mischievous. :D

[Geo]

Although I read ane re-read the post several times, I couldn't decide whether g-sani was saying that the device was patented, or whether this was a misuse of the word "patent". I was expecting the latter. Nothing mysterious ... or even mischievous. :D

OK..:)

[gibon]

Although I read ane re-read the post several times, I couldn't decide whether g-sani was saying that the device was patented, or whether this was a misuse of the word "patent". I was expecting the latter. Nothing mysterious ... or even mischievous. :D




Try this Qiaozhi !! no need any patent for frequency Generator from "RAMSEY"

plus two Rod. 10920

[Geo]

Hi gibon.
What about the coil?? is there anything else in the wooden box????
Also very strange rod.
Gongratulation, looks good work:).

[J_Player]

Hi gibon.
What about the coil?? is there anything else in the wooden box????
Also very strange rod.
Gongratulation, looks good work:).This is a rod made by Mike(Mont) to be less friction than ordinary L-rods. It has magnets attached at the location above and below the blue metal for bearings to hold the rod when it swings. It is said to be more sensitive if there is not much wind compared to ordinary rods that work better when there is wind. I think this rod is not the original rods that came with this equipment.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

This is the rod made by Mike(Mont) to be less friction than ordinary L-rods. It has magnets attached at the location above and below the blue metal for bearings to let the rod swing. It is said to be more sensitive if there is not much wind compared to ordinary rods that work better when there is wind. I think this rod is not the original rods that came with this equipment.

Best wishes,
J_P


Thank you J_P:)

[Qiaozhi]

This is a rod made by Mike(Mont) to be less friction than ordinary L-rods. It has magnets attached at the location above and below the blue metal for bearings to hold the rod when it swings. It is said to be more sensitive if there is not much wind compared to ordinary rods that work better when there is wind. I think this rod is not the original rods that came with this equipment.

Best wishes,
J_P
So it's basically a dowsing rod, dressed up with some do-nothing electronics? :rolleyes:

[J_Player]

So it's basically a dowsing rod, dressed up with some do-nothing electronics? :rolleyes:The picture I see shows an MFD box (adjustable frequency generator) with ground probes at the output, and maybe an ariel on top, and a dowsing rod to connect to.

The interesting thing is this dowsing rod can easily be balanced by adding non-metallic weight to the front or back so it will not swivel when tilted. Maybe it can have a plastic weight added so gravity has no effect when it is not perfectly level. This could allow some interesting experiments to see if there is some other force different from gravity to make it swivel.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

The picture I see shows an MFD box (adjustable frequency generator) with ground probes at the output, and maybe an ariel on top, and a dowsing rod to connect to.

The interesting thing is this dowsing rod can easily be balanced by adding non-metallic weight to the front or back so it will not swivel when tilted. Maybe it can have a plastic weight added so gravity has no effect when it is not perfectly level. This could allow some interesting experiments to see if there is some other force different from gravity to make it swivel.

Best wishes,
J_P
It would make sense to liberate the signal generator, and transfer it to someone's workshop where it could be more useful. :lol:

[Qiaozhi]

It would make sense to liberate the signal generator, and transfer it to someone's workshop where it could be more useful. :lol:
... and throw the rest in the recycling bin. :razz:

[g-sani]

This is a rod made by Mike(Mont) to be less friction than ordinary L-rods. It has magnets attached at the location above and below the blue metal for bearings to hold the rod when it swings. It is said to be more sensitive if there is not much wind compared to ordinary rods that work better when there is wind. I think this rod is not the original rods that came with this equipment.

Best wishes,
J_P

I have seen this dowsing rod long time ago in the web whith its price.
It is been made from somebody selling other LRLs as well.
I can not remember the page now but I remember it was somebody well known.I will check and let you know.
It was for sale alone and this is for sure.I remember the price was 125$ plus postage.

[J_Player]

It would make sense to liberate the signal generator, and transfer it to someone's workshop where it could be more useful. :lol:Sure,
But not until after you finish checking it with the balanced dowsing rod to see if it is doing anything useful.
Mike(Mont) invented the perfect rod that can be balanced to check if there is a mysterious force pulling it toward treasure.

Think about it... Once you add a non-metallic counterweight so no tilting will cause gravity to swivel the rod direction, then you can test without even digging the target. It will test false signals as well as treasure signals. Any signal whether a good signal or a bad signal, or even an idea-motor signal can no longer rely on gravity to help. We must see the signal line use the mysterious force to cause the rod to move. This will clearly indicate whether the signal generator is helping to make the rod move.

Best wishes,
J_P

[g-sani]

High sensitivity even in a dowsing rod can help one get more accurate results especially when testing or practicing because parameters as friction go aside in a much greater level.
I liked this fresh idea myself and I think it is fair priced.
See the video in the page below where you can understand how sensitive this rod is.
http://www.lrlman.com/Pages/MikeRod/revelation_locator_rod.htm

[ivconic]

Nice video. Neodymium magnets?
It is not LRL it is compass!
Anyway...good toy for playing! :lol:

[WM6]

It is not LRL it is compass!

:lol:

Exactly, and on top of all this MikeRod compass is useless (as compass too).


Greed can easily block the brain.

[J_Player]

Nice video. Neodymium magnets?
It is not LRL it is compass!
Anyway...good toy for playing! :lol:


Originally posted by WM6
Exactly, and on top of all this MikeRod compass is useless (as compass too).

Greed can easily block the brain.Hmmm... I didn't notice, the magnets are not only for a bearing at the pivot, but there is also a magnet on the end of the rod.
So this makes it a compass as you say.

I wonder how it can be used to locate treasure if the earth's magnetic field causes it point only to north?
Maybe you need to stand on the south side of where you know there is a treasure? :???:



Maybe it would be more convienient to use a compass ring.
Then no need to carry the special rod assembly, with problems of wind moving the needle.
Simply point your finger to your favourite compass direction to locate treasure....

[WM6]

Maybe it would be more convienient to use a compass ring.
Then no need to carry the special rod assembly, with problems of wind moving the needle.
Simply point your finger to your favourite compass direction to locate treasure....



Yes, or this device:

Way much better than MikeRod and worth their price. Imune to Earth magnetic field, but sensitive to anomalies in soil if you change position and directions. In addition, they assist in orientation and help you to come back home. In few words: ideal LRL (need only to add pistol handle):

[J_Player]

Yes, or this device:

Way much better than MikeRod and worth their price. Imune to Earth magnetic field, but sensitive to anomalies in soil if you change position and directions. In addition, they assist in orientation and help you to come back home. In few words: ideal LRL (need only to add pistol handle):I think the Mike rod could locate a shovel if tested at close range.
Will this device also locate a shovel?

Best wishes
J_P

[WM6]

Will this device also locate a shovel?

J_P

O yes, this device can locate 3 shovels at once - and you can all target geografic coordinate put in memory if you have no time to dig..

[J_Player]

O yes, this device can locate 3 shovels at once - and you can all target geografic coordinate put in memory if you have no time to dig..Interesting...
Then the geographical coordinates shown on the display can be used as proof of locating treasure.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Interesting...
Then the geographical coordinates shown on the display can be used as proof of locating treasure.

Best wishes,
J_P
Nice!
the only thing you need is to take a picture of the screen :p

[Qiaozhi]

High sensitivity even in a dowsing rod can help one get more accurate results especially when testing or practicing because parameters as friction go aside in a much greater level.
I liked this fresh idea myself and I think it is fair priced.
See the video in the page below where you can understand how sensitive this rod is.
http://www.lrlman.com/Pages/MikeRod/revelation_locator_rod.htm
Total nonsense. :lol:

Just another useless dowsing gadget driven by the ideomotor response. :razz:

[Theseus]

Total nonsense. :lol:

Just another useless dowsing gadget driven by the ideomotor response. :razz:

BTW, did you notice If you want the tritium power load, add $25.

Now there is an option you could hardly do without. I mean if the dowsing rod itself wasn't a big enough joke, why not go the extra $25 and get the Tritium Power Load. :lol: :lol:

Certainly a bent coat hanger will work as well as this expensive dowsing contraption, WITH or WITHOUT the tritium power load.

Also, I wonder if Mike(Mont) and Tim Williams (LRLman) is aware of the US Export Laws concerning the shipment and carriers involved in transporting Tritium? I wonder also if he is aware of the Health Hazards associated with Tritium? Do you suppose he iterates those to his customers before offering them the "tritium power load"?

Oh, and BTW, what exactly does a tritium power load do to enhance ones ideomotor response?

[Fred]

I am sure the tritium has a strong psychological effect, which is all is necessary for dowsing.
This is tritium:

10934

I wonder what are the effect if you already use a watch with tritium...

[g-sani]

What is the similarity between crows and skeptics?
They move around in bunches.
:) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :D

[Theseus]

I am sure the tritium has a strong psychological effect, which is all is necessary for dowsing.
This is tritium:

10934

I wonder what are the effect if you already use a watch with tritium...

Yes, that's an example of the use of tritium, but Mike talked about a Power Load, inferring that it was capable of making a difference in the dowsing rod's accuracy or response characteristics - so that probably means a MUCH LARGER amount of tritium. :lol:

[J_Player]

I am sure the tritium has a strong psychological effect, which is all is necessary for dowsing.

I wonder what are the effect if you already use a watch with tritium...Hi Fred,
If tritium used in a watch helps to show a good reading, then tritum in a compass should also help to get a good reading.

The difference is....
For the watch it helps only to find the time of day.
But for the compass, it helps to find the direction where the treasure machine is pointing.


P.S. Tritium would also have the same effect on the ring compass.

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

Yes, that's an example of the use of tritium, but Mike talked about a Power Load, inferring that it was capable of making a difference in the dowsing rod's accuracy or response characteristics - so that probably means a MUCH LARGER amount of tritium. :lol:I don't recall Mike(Mont) mentioning tritium. Nor do I recall tritium as being a standard ingredient for the average power load used in an LRL. Apparently this is being offered by a dowsing rod salesman, without implying what the psychological effects or amount of tritium is. Most other power loads I read about are a mixture of odd salts and sands, or a sample of target material placed in the hand or in a sample chamber -- quite inexpensive for an average dowser to rig up.

But if you did coat certain parts of the rod with tritium and phosphors, it could improve a user's ability to see where it is pointing at night without carrying extra lights, whose metal parts and current flow could interfere with the forces from the magnets.

Also the improved visibility when using triitium at night could be proven by demonstrating it in a repeatable way.
And if this rod was well balanced, It's ability to always align toward the magnetic north pole could also be demonstrated on a windless night.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

I don't recall Mike(Mont) mentioning tritium. Nor do I recall tritium as being a standard ingredient for the average power load used in an LRL. Apparently this is being offered by a dowsing rod salesman, without implying what the psychological effects or amount of tritium is. Most other power loads I read about are a mixture of odd salts and sands, or a sample of target material placed in the hand or in a sample chamber -- quite inexpensive for an average dowser to rig up.

But if you did coat certain parts of the rod with tritium and phosphors, it could improve a user's ability to see where it is pointing at night without carrying extra lights, whose metal parts and current flow could interfere with the forces from the magnets.

Also the improved visibility when using triitium at night could be proven by demonstrating it in a repeatable way.
And if this rod was well balanced, It's ability to always align toward the magnetic north pole could also be demonstrated on a windless night.

Best wishes,
J_P

It is mentioned "here" on the ad for the sale of the dowsing rod.

http://www.lrlman.com/Pages/MikeRod/revelation_locator_rod.htm

He does not say here, if it is used to produce better visibility. I'm just guessing a "power" load would be something to enhance the locating properties of the dowsing rod. (a sales gimmick to further fool the "gullible")

It would be most interesting to know how Tritium does that.

If it's for visibility, then that is a different issue, and would not be unlike the sights on my 9mm. :lol:

[J_Player]

It is mentioned "here" on the ad for the sale of the dowsing rod.

http://www.lrlman.com/Pages/MikeRod/revelation_locator_rod.htm

He does not say here, if it is used to produce better visibility. I'm just guessing a "power" load would be something to enhance the locating properties of the dowsing rod. (a sales gimmick to further fool the "gullible")

It would be most interesting to know how Tritium does that.

If it's for visibility, then that is a different issue, and would not be unlike the sights on my 9mm. :lol:I did not know this is Mike(Mont)'s advertisement. I thought it was LRL-man's advertisement to sell Mike's rod, and included an offer to include a tritium power load for extra cost. The source of the tritium power load seems unclear to me.

From the advertising I read from other sellers of power loads, the purpose is connected with small amounts of radiation causing unknown effects to be come more activated. What effects were never explained very well. These could be connected with the target, or the sample, or the user's biological response.

Since there is no real explanation what a tritium power load does, I was able to see a real-science based application in Fred's photo, which could also be applied to a dowsing rod with a magnet configured as a compass by balancing it. The tritium, when used in the manner shown in Fred's photo could be used to demonstrate repeatable results of improved visibility in low light scenarios.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

I did not know this is Mike(Mont)'s advertisement. I thought it was LRL-man's advertisement to sell Mike's rod, and included an offer to include a tritium power load for extra cost. The source of the tritium power load seems unclear to me.

From the advertising I read from other sellers of power loads, the purpose is connected with small amounts of radiation causing unknown effects to be come more activated. What effects were never explained very well. These could be connected with the target, or the sample, or the user's biological response.

Since there is no real explanation what a tritium power load does, I was able to see a real-science based application in Fred's photo, which could also be applied to a dowsing rod with a magnet configured as a compass by balancing it. The tritium, when used in the manner shown in Fred's photo could be used to demonstrate repeatable results of improved visibility in low light scenarios.

Best wishes,
J_P

:rolleyes: So, is it your honest belief (interpretation) the tritium is strictly for visibility enhancement, based on what you read in the ad? :rolleyes:

Yes, I understand it is Tim's ad, but wouldn't Mike have had to agree to the content of it? :rolleyes:

[J_Player]

:rolleyes: So, is it your honest belief (interpretation) the tritium is strictly for visibility enhancement, based on what you read in the ad? :rolleyes:

Yes, I understand it is Tim's ad, but wouldn't Mike have had to agree to the content of it? :rolleyes:No, that is not my belief or what I said. I doubt it is even what you infered unless you have a prejudiced point of view.

Go back and read again:

1. "The source of the tritium power loads seems unclear to me".
I cannot conclude Mike would have to agree with it, because it is possible this is a power load that is offered by LRL-Man as an accessory he added independently to Mike's dowsing rod. Or it is possible it is offered by Mike and simply passed on in LRL-Man's advertisement. Ordinary logic without adding prejudice would suggest we do not draw conclusions until we know what the facts are. We simply state the source of the tritium power load seems unclear.

2. "Since there is no real explanation of what a tritium power load does, I could see a real-science application in Fred's photo..."
Haven't I stated there is no real explanation given of what it does? The application I saw did not come from the dowsing rod advertisement or other power load advertisements. It came from Fred's photo... an unrelated source that happens to have a basis in real explainable science. My implication is I found an alternate real-science use for tritium in the absence of any explanation of it's intended function in the advertising. Of course you are free to draw whatever erroneous inferences you want as long as you don't try to present them as my belief (interpretation).

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

No, that is not my belief or what I said. I doubt it is even what you infered unless you have a prejudiced point of view.

Go back and read again:

1. "The source of the tritium power loads seems unclear to me".
I cannot conclude Mike would have to agree with it, because it is possible this is a power load that is offered by LRL-Man as an accessory he added independently to Mike's dowsing rod. Or it is possible it is offered by Mike and simply passed on in LRL-Man's advertisement. Ordinary logic without adding prejudice would suggest we do not draw conclusions until we know what the facts are. We simply state the source of the tritium power load seems unclear.

2. "Since there is no real explanation of what a tritium power load does, I could see a real-science application in Fred's photo..."
Haven't I stated there is no real explanation given of what it does? The application I saw did not come from the dowsing rod advertisement or other power load advertisements. It came from Fred's photo... an unrelated source that happens to have a basis in real explainable science. My implication is I found an alternate real-science use for tritium in the absence of any explanation of it's intended function in the advertising. Of course you are free to draw whatever erroneous inferences you want as long as you don't try to present them as my belief (interpretation).

Best wishes,
J_P

I think I understand.... ;)

Seems to be a lot of drama involved for what started out to be a simple comment about a tritium power load. Whatever.... :rolleyes: I'll be glad when the rains stop in your area, things dry out some, and you can get out and get some fresh air again.

[J_Player]

I think I understand.... ;)

Seems to be a lot of drama involved for what started out to be a simple comment about a tritium power load. Whatever.... :rolleyes: I'll be glad when the rains stop in your area, things dry out some, and you can get out and get some fresh air again.Ya, nice try Theseus,

You didn't make a simple post about tritium power loads. You posted an innuendo that I believe things which I do not, dredged from your inferences: "So, is it your honest belief (interpretation) the tritium is strictly for visibility enhancement, based on what you read in the ad?"

Why not try something useful to attain your goals...
For example, contact an aquaintance in the Southern California area and convince them to come and try out the examiner to see how it works in person. This will do a lot to help show you what it actually does instead of speculating. They can report back to you so you can compare what they tell you to what I post about it. Can you think of a better practical way to find the facts?

No need to interject drama... just do it. Maybe you will find this actually helps to arrive at your goals. Really.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Ya, nice try Theseus,

You didn't make a simple post about tritium power loads. You posted an innuendo that I believe things which I do not, dredged from your inferences: "So, is it your honest belief (interpretation) the tritium is strictly for visibility enhancement, based on what you read in the ad?"

Why not try something useful to attain your goals...
For example, contact an aquaintance in the Southern California area and convince them to come and try out the examiner to see how it works in person. This will do a lot to help show you what it actually does instead of speculating. They can report back to you so you can compare what they tell you to what I post about it. Can you think of a better practical way to find the facts?

No need to interject drama... just do it. Maybe you will find this actually helps to arrive at your goals. Really.

Best wishes,
J_P

You know something Graham... I'd like nothing better than to contact some acquaintance of mine in CA and have them drop by your place to do just that; run through a couple of simple tests. Believe me, if I knew someone that was in your immediate area, you would have heard from them by now.

Problem is, I don't have any acquaintances that live anywhere close to you. And, that's not the only problem I have. How could I be sure they wouldn't be wasting their time if;

1). your schedule and coordination of timing for a visit might never coincide with theirs and

2). if you are never able to "adjust" the trimmer cap to the satisfaction of yourself or R-T, then there may NEVER be anything to test in the first place.

Now is that being melodramatic, or just realistic? I think it is a legitimate concern based on the amount of info you've released so far. And remember, you have the "whole enchilada" to look at, all I've had are the tidbits you've been placing here. So, admittedly I have had to make some guesses, some read between the lines and probably some inferences.

While we are on the subject of inferences... When I said; "So, is it your honest belief (interpretation) the tritium is strictly for visibility enhancement, based on what you read in the ad?" I was NOT trying to put words in your mouth, OR state that you believed somethinig that you do not believe. I WAS HONESTLY TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU BELIEVED ABOUT THE TRITIUM POWER LOAD! That's all. If you will notice, the statement was in the form of a QUESTION.

Now, why would I have a problem understanding anything you might be talking about? Because, Graham, for about the last two or three months here on this forum, you have changed the way you speak about LRLs and the LRL manufacturers; that's why. You have gone into this mode that I could only describe as Hyper-Condescending speech patterns.

Are you aware you've done that? The change had to be a conscious effort on your part; I'm just really unclear why. Perhaps a PM would help me to understand.

I used to think I knew your stance on these subjects. I don't think that anymore. Your stance may not have changed at all, but it certainly is no longer clear to this reader/observer.

Finally, let's get all the cards face up on the table here. If I have made any inferences concerning the RT Examiner, the theory of operation, what it can do, and what it basically is; it is because of one very important piece of information that I hold as Fact and Truth in my own mind and past experience.

That is; I BELIEVE Carl and everything he has posted about the Examiner(S) he has examined and tested. Further I do not believe the one you have, or any future ones you might get will be any different from or produce any different results from the ones Carl has examined.

I'm very sorry you didn't see any humor in my little jingle. I thought it injected a little levity at a time when that thread could use a little. :lol:

Take care... and happy fishing.

[Tim Williams]

Just to be clear. Mike sent me what he wanted to say about his rod. I make nothing on the sales of his rod. Just helping him.

[J_Player]

Just to be clear. Mike sent me what he wanted to say about his rod. I make nothing on the sales of his rod. Just helping him.Thanks for the clarification, Tim.


While we are on the subject of inferences... When I said; "So, is it your honest belief (interpretation) the tritium is strictly for visibility enhancement, based on what you read in the ad?" I was NOT trying to put words in your mouth, OR state that you believed somethinig that you do not believe. I WAS HONESTLY TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU BELIEVED ABOUT THE TRITIUM POWER LOAD! That's all. If you will notice, the statement was in the form of a QUESTION.
Is that so? But wait...
you already knew my honest belief (interpretation) because you quoted my previous answer in the same post where you asked this question. How can you expect me to think you were honestly trying to figure out what I believed about the tritium power load after I already told you?

I see your post where you show my answer, then rephrase it to appear I believe the tritium is strictly for visibility enhancement. This does not look like you were trying to find out my answer. It looks like you already knew my answer from reading it, and rephrased it to appear as a different answer than what I said: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=105618&postcount=429

What you describe as Hyper-Condescending speech patterns is not something that changed in the past few months. I generally use that manner of speech pattern when anyone misquotes a post I make, or does something else I disagree with strongly. I have used this speech pattern since my earliest posts when people were misquoting what I posted to arrive at meanings I did not express. Especially when I suspected they have an agenda to promote that is not the same as what I am saying in a post.

Here is an example of me correcting a forum poster who misquoted some things I said to suit his purposes back in 2006.
You will recognize a speech pattern in my response that you described:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=43481&postcount=262 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=43481&postcount=262)
You can check a lot more of my posts from that time to present to get a clear idea of where my cards are. You will find the same attitude you described when I had a purpose to use it, and you will find I don't follow any particular party line in the LRL-believer/Skeptic debate, I just follow what makes sense to me. But most consider me to lean generally toward the skeptical side of the spectrum.

If you haven't heard, my main interest is to see people who claim to have working LRLs to demonstrate them recovering treasure live in front of me. I also am interested in learning some facts instead of just believeing what other people say. This has not changed since I joined this forum. It doesn't bother me to ask questions about theoretical signal lines or details of dowsing, even though I never saw any live proof that they exist as working methods. I also liked reading Carl's Rangertell article and other articles about LRLs. But instead of jumping blindly on the safety of some bandwagon, I'm taking Carl's advice.... to not believe what others tell me. See for myself.

My cards have been on the table since I joined this forum. You will find many of my posts shortly after joining this forum in 2006 show me asking these same questions here:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11046

You can also read my 2006 posts when I debated with Carl-NC and Jim about my belief there are gold ions dissolving in the soil here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=41715&postcount=105

And you can read all about my participation in an LRL project and discussion with a number of LRL supporters and skeptics here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11392


Then continue on in a forum search to see tons of condescending posts I made, LRL believer posts I made, skeptic posts I made, ions-in-the-soil posts I made, science posts, and even stupid posts. Currently you are seeing the effects of what happens when I feel like I am being misquoted or being manipulated in some other cheesy manner. My cards haven't changed.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

<< other stuff snipped >>

Currently you are seeing the effects of what happens when I feel like I am being misquoted or being manipulated in some other cheesy manner. My cards haven't changed.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hmmmm... a rather interesting response tactic, but from my point of view (and maybe others) rather confusing. I'm just hypothesizing now; but if you really were misquoted or being manipulated, wouldn't it be just as easy and perhaps achieve a more meaningful result for yourself, to just challenge the one you suspect rather than deliberate obfuscation, which tends to cause even less understanding on the part of your readers? Just a thought.... ;)

My cards have not changed either, at least not since about 1995, when I became aware of "exactly" how all ideomotor-based dowsing contraptions work. And yes, I came to my conclusions, NOT through another investigator's experiences, but MY OWN. My knowledge did not come FREE, but involved some significant time and expense. Yes, I have first hand knowledge with a great many LRLs, all the way from the most simple to the highly complex containing a multitude of do-nothing appendages. No, I've not seen or tested an Examiner, but as I have iterated before; I take the word of Carl, basically because his findings on several others I've seen match my own completely.

I think it is very admirable of you to want to give everything under the sun a fair chance to work, as advertised, and to experience it with your very own eyes. I have myself tried to remain completely opened minded about this topic, with the idea that perhaps something will come along that actually works according to real science. However, at the same time, I AM NOT going to throw away all the knowledge and experience I have gained so far, and in combination with pure logic and common sense; will form any new opinions accordingly. But then, that's just my approach... YMMV. :)

[J_Player]

if you really were misquoted or being manipulated, wouldn't it be just as easy and perhaps achieve a more meaningful result for yourself, to just challenge the one you suspect rather than deliberate obfuscation,....Actually this exactly what I did in the earlier post where the incident happened, remember?

"No, that is not my belief or what I said. I doubt it is even what you infered unless you have a prejudiced point of view.

Go back and read again....."

The lengthy post you just read was not made for that particular incident. It was my answer to a number of comments you made in your new post stating you noticed a recent change that you were unclear about, and you don't know my stance on some topics. Since your forum user settings were set to not accept PMs, I decided to post a forum reply instead. This way is probably better anyway, because it will also clear up any misconceptions in case others are wondering.

But don't worry, I haven't thrown anything away. I believe what I can prove to work, not just anecdotes. I just prefer to see it first-hand instead of taking others word for it. Carl agrees with this and even urges it. I think he knows there are some rare cases when he can be wrong, and doesn't even mind doing some checking in person himself to see if he's right or wrong. If I didn't agree with Carl's advice, then I may never have looked to see the evidence of gold corroding in the ground and sending ions up to the surface in trace amounts. Seems like a long shot, but sometimes it happens.

Also don't worry, I don't care what anybody thinks about whether the examiner and other LRL works or not. I wouldn't expect anyone to believe anything that they were not convinced of -- for or against. But I also expect others won't expect me to believe or disbelieve unless I feel convinced by my own methods, not theirs as well. You see me making some strong posts when I see a lapse of logic used to arrive at a conclusion that looks wrong when LRL enthusiasts are trying to convince people a particular LRL works, but the same yardstick should also apply to skeptics at times when they jump to conclusions, including myself.

Best wishes,
J_P

[g-sani]

............ If I didn't agree with Carl's advice, then I may never have looked to see the evidence of gold corroding in the ground and sending ions up to the surface in trace amounts. Seems like a long shot, but sometimes it happens..........

Best wishes,
J_P

:super: :cheers:

[WM6]

If I didn't agree with Carl's advice, then I may never have looked to see the evidence of gold corroding in the ground and sending ions up to the surface in trace amounts. Seems like a long shot, but sometimes it happens.



Hi J_P

how do you know that trace amount of gold ions originate from buried gold and not from planetary eroded gold found in traces everywhere in soil and even in sea water and vegetables. For instance there is more gold in a ton of sea water than in a ton of good to average gold ore. Gold ions are everywhere.

If not, you maybe discover anti-gravity gold ions.

[J_Player]

Hi J_P

how do you know that trace amount of gold ions originate from buried gold and not from planetary eroded gold found in traces everywhere in soil and even in sea water and vegetables. For instance there is more gold in a ton of sea water than in a ton of good to average gold ore. Gold ions are everywhere.

If not, you maybe discover anti-gravity gold ions.Hi WM6,

I don't know any thing about anti-gravity gold ions.
I only know about gold ions that are proved by scientists measuring them. The way I know the source of the gold ions is not from the ocean or the air is because scientists measured the anomalies of higher concentrations of gold ions in the soil above buried metals. When they found these high concentration of metal ions, they followed the path of the anomaly and found there are ions concentrated in a column of soil that can be traced down to the metal buried below the anomaly. Thousands of tests were performed to determine the source of metal of ions of gold and other metals which led to buried metals below.

The research done at universities around the world shows that even deep buried metals including gold corrode under the ground by the action of bacteria and other microbes that are found on the surface of the metal. Some of these microbes produce cyanide and thiosulfate that dissolves gold and releases gold ions into the soil, suspended in the sulfur complex as well as organic acids produced by these microbes. Through a number of mechanisms, the ions move upwards in a column toward the surface where they can be measured as an anomaly that marks the location of metal below the surface.

Many of these studies show that microgold particles are produced by similar microbes that are able to chemically precipitate the dissolved gold ions into solid gold. They have even shown many gold nuggets near the surface that were precipitated by microbes depositing gold dissolved from a source some large distance below. These ions moved up near the surface and were precipitated as new nuggets above, which is a chemical mechanism of moving gold without digging. But most of the gold transported by this method is in the form of tiny particles. The studies further suggest that much of the tiny particles of gold in the oceans originally began as natural gold deposits that were not eroded, but were transported by similar microbal action from metallic gold under the ocean floor.

Is it possible that microscopic gold ions in the air or water in trace amounts is the source of ions in the soil?
Maybe, but this is not what the scientists who measured the anomalies found. They found that the source was a gold deposit below. They are so sure of their findings that they developed soil sampling methods to make geochemical surveys at mine sites to pinpoint the location of gold and other metal deposits for the mines to extract. There are reports of successsful mine exploration all over the world for the past 17 years using this method called MMI (Mobile Metal Ion) surveys. These surveys take soil samples to see where there is a stronger metal ion concentration so they can pinpoint the metal ore deposits below.

But the scientist aslo proved the source of metal ions in the soil is from buried metal by conducting experiments with fresh gold pellets that were placed in sterilized soil samples, then the same natural microbes that naturally attack gold were placed in some of the samples. They found that after 30-60 days, the shallow samples with the gold-attacking microbes developed a concentration of gold ions more than 10 times stronger than the concentrations they find from deeper natural gold deposits in the ground that have been buried for thousands of years.

So to answer your question, I know the source of the gold ions comes from buried gold metal because I believe what the scientist and technicians measured. But even if somebody can prove these scientists were all wrong, I really don't care, because we have found from thousands of geologists soil surveys showing these anomalies in dissolved gold ions happen in locations where gold is below the anomaly. So regardless of the source, finding the anomaly will still will be useful for treasure hunting to find the buried gold below.

Here are some of the reports you can read that were made by scientists who proved gold and other metals dissolve in soil after microbes attack it, and also reports of methods to find buried gold below these ion anomalies using MMI surveys:
http://www.geochem.sgs.com/mmi-orientation-surveys.htm
http://www.geochem.sgs.com/mmi-theory.htm
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V66-4J2CNGH-1&_user=10&_coverDate=03%2F15%2F2006&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1177930030&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=354e5649999e3b8f26e54ceb8221ec30
http://www.nature.com/ismej/journal/v1/n7/full/ismej200775a.html
http://crcleme.org.au/Pubs/Monographs/regolith2002/Reith.pdf
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Gold+Canyon+Receives+Fedikow+Report+on+Springpole' s+MMI+Program-a0128214628
http://books.google.com/books?id=L8Be8rprGgkC&pg=PA495&lpg=PA495#v=onepage&q=&f=false
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070818101731.htm
http://books.google.com/books?id=L8Be8rprGgkC&pg=PA495&lpg=PA495&dq=microb#
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/08/060802103513.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/05/020523075914.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091007103034.htm
http://www.gwrresources.com/s/NewsReleases.asp?ReportID=370303&_Type=News-Releases&_Title=Preliminary-Resource-Estimate-for-Aurizon-Central-Zone-Nears-Completion-Res...
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VCP-3T3RWC7-5&_user=10&_coverDate=05%2F31%2F1998&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=abaac6fe56a6c841fa08c5fb73cb4c82
http://aris.empr.gov.bc.ca/ArisReports/28541.PDF

Actually there are hundreds of thousands of reports.
Maybe easier to look at them on a google search instead of listing them:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us&rlz=1I7ADFA_en&q=mmi+gold&btnG=Search&aq=f&aql=&aqi=&oq=

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

H

The research done at universities around the world shows that even deep buried metals including gold corrode under the ground by the action of bacteria and other microbes that are found on the surface of the metal. Some of these microbes produce cyanide and thiosulfate that dissolves gold and releases gold ions into the soil, suspended in the sulfur complex as well as organic acids produced by these microbes. Through a number of mechanisms, the ions move upwards in a column toward the surface where they can be measured as an anomaly that marks the location of metal below the surface.

Many of these studies show that microgold particles are produced by similar microbes that are able to chemically precipitate the dissolved gold ions into solid gold. They have even shown many gold nuggets near the surface that were precipitated by microbes depositing gold dissolved from a source some large distance below. These ions moved up near the surface and were precipitated as new nuggets above, which is a chemical mechanism of moving gold without digging. But most of the gold transported by this method is in the form of tiny particles. The studies further suggest that much of the tiny particles of gold in the oceans originally began as natural gold deposits that were not eroded, but were transported by similar microbal action from metallic gold under the ocean floor.

Is it possible that microscopic gold ions in the air or water in trace amounts is the source of ions in the soil?
Maybe, but this is not what the scientists who measured the anomalies found. They found that the source was a gold deposit below. They are so sure of their findings that they developed soil sampling methods to make geochemical surveys at mine sites to pinpoint the location of gold and other metal deposits for the mines to extract. There are reports of successsful mine exploration all over the world for the past 17 years using this method called MMI (Mobile Metal Ion) surveys. These surveys take soil samples to see where there is a stronger metal ion concentration so they can pinpoint the metal ore deposits below.

But the scientist aslo proved the source of metal ions in the soil is from buried metal by conducting experiments with fresh gold pellets that were placed in sterilized soil samples, then the same natural microbes that naturally attack gold were placed in some of the samples. They found that after 30-60 days, the shallow samples with the gold-attacking microbes developed a concentration of gold ions more than 10 times stronger than the concentrations they find from deeper natural gold deposits in the ground that have been buried for thousands of years.

Actually there are hundreds of thousands of reports.

Best wishes,
J_P

Thank you, J_P, for your thorough explanation. I read about it already before but forgot on moving micro-world in soil now (I am thinking only about plant).

You explained very well, thank you, I have only commented on the erosion, this is not just a mechanical or physical, but also electro-chemical and biological.

So for detecting buried gold we need only extra sensitive GIN (Gold Ions Nose) and voilÃ*!

For now, this can be the best non-electronic GIN solution:

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=101657&postcount=14

[J_Player]

Thank you, J_P, for your thorough explanation. I read about it already before but forgot on moving micro-world in soil now (I am thinking only about plant).

You explained very well, thank you, I have only commented on the erosion, this is not just a mechanical or physical, but also electro-chemical and biological.

So for detecting buried gold we need only extra sensitive GIN (Gold Ions Nose) and voilÃ*!

For now, this can be the best non-electronic GIN solution:

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=101657&postcount=14
Plants are involved in the process of moving gold. In addition to microscopic algaes that attack gold, one of the references I listed shows you where even trees draw dissolved gold and other metals out of the ground through their roots. "The researchers found native gold, silver and platinum salts in the dust of decayed stumps. A ton of their ashes contains 3 kilograms of silver, nearly 200 milligrams of gold and 5 grams of platinum"
Plants only concentrate gold when they are growing in soil that has dissolved gold in it. (This implies there is gold metal below the ionised gold in the soil). See this report where plants were found to concentrate gold from when growing above gold in the ground: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070818101731.htm


The ions become bound with other constituents of the soil in the top 10-30cm below the surface. At these depths, the ions are no longer ions. For gold, the ions become mostly microscopic gold particles, which are estimated to account for most of the gold that is moved in the top layers of the soil in nature. This 10-30cm is also the depth at which erosion is likely to happen on large scale to wash tiny metallic gold particles into streams or to blow into the air.

But no magic is needed to locate the gold ion concentrations. This is done by digging holes and taking soil samples to measure the amount of gold ions or other metal ions. This is all normal science. No Jinns or antimatter is needed. Why do you look for magical ways when we have good knowledge of the actual way this happens measured by scientists?

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

This is all normal science. No Jinns or antimatter is needed.



Yes, but magic is magic.

[J_Player]

Yes, but magic is magic.Hi WM6,
Thanks for explaining it. Now I understand. :)

Best wishes,
J_P

[Jim]

So to answer your question, I know the source of the gold ions comes from buried gold metal because I believe what the scientist and technicians measured. But even if somebody can prove these scientists were all wrong, I really don't care, because we have found from thousands of geologists soil surveys showing these anomalies in dissolved gold ions happen in locations where gold is below the anomaly. So regardless of the source, finding the anomaly will still will be useful for treasure hunting to find the buried gold below.



Thanks for the interesting links and such...but, it seems as if the testing was done underground. In other words....soil samples were taken from the ground...and then the soil was analyzed. Unless I missed it...I did not see where scientists or mining companies were able to "detect" gold ions without testing the soil first.

Again...unless I missed it in one of those links...there is no evidence of airborne gold ions, that can be captured and analyzed from the surface. Especially using random air samples. Difference between treasure hunting and mining

[Theseus]

Thanks for the interesting links and such...but, it seems as if the testing was done underground. In other words....soil samples were taken from the ground...and then the soil was analyzed. Unless I missed it...I did not see where scientists or mining companies were able to "detect" gold ions without testing the soil first.

Again...unless I missed it in one of those links...there is no evidence of airborne gold ions, that can be captured and analyzed from the surface. Especially using random air samples. Difference between treasure hunting and mining

No, Jim, I don't think you missed anything.

The ions become bound with other constituents of the soil in the top 10-30cm below the surface.

From my understanding of what J_P is expounding on here, there are NO air-born ions rising up from buried gold. Apparently, "certain" scientists and mining exploration folks are using soil samples to discover buried gold deposits, by analyzing and detecting these migrating ions in the top layers of soil only.

Since J_P has recently, and emphatically, indicated to me; "I also am interested in learning some facts instead of just believeing(sic) what other people say." ....then I would, by his own remarks, have to believe that he has actually witnessed these gold discovery techniques in operation.

[J_Player]

Thanks for the interesting links and such...but, it seems as if the testing was done underground. In other words....soil samples were taken from the ground...and then the soil was analyzed. Unless I missed it...I did not see where scientists or mining companies were able to "detect" gold ions without testing the soil first.

Again...unless I missed it in one of those links...there is no evidence of airborne gold ions, that can be captured and analyzed from the surface. Especially using random air samples. Difference between treasure hunting and miningHi Jim,
Yes, the MMI testing is done by digging samples of soil from below the top layer of dirt where gold ions will show a representative concentration. But mining companies use a lot of other methods to indicate what is below the ground besides MMI testing. Some of these methods are not done from below the ground, but above. In most cases, these tests are not detecting gold ions.

Capturing gold ions from the surface doesn't sound easy to me. To start with, the concentrations they measure below the ground are in the parts per trillion and sometimes less. By the time they reach the surface, they become bound with other elements or become metallic gold particles. Maybe a few ions of the parts per trillion could somehow escape into the air, but how would you collect them?
Wouldn't a single ion blow away in the wind, or quickly neutralise with a charged particle or molecule in the air?
The whole reason why they cease to be ions after they rise from the lower layers of soil is because they no longer are in an environment that has active electrolytes and complexes that support gold ions. They are moving to the surface that is rich in a large array of materials and particles that will bind the ions. This is true of the air as well, which has charged gas molecules as well as particles with molecules that can combine with metal ions from salts or other complexes. In the case of gold, when it loses it's supporting chemical complex, it usually combines with itself to form a metallic gold molecule, that can grow into a particle if other molecules attach.

The gold in the air I read about is metallic microparticles, not ionic. From what I read it was measured at less than 0.003ng/kg for air on average. Because of the wind action, I doubt these measurements would be useful for locating buried gold.

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

...Since J_P has recently, and emphatically, indicated to me; "I also am interested in learning some facts instead of just believeing(sic) what other people say." ....then I would, by his own remarks, have to believe that he has actually witnessed these gold discovery techniques in operation.Hi Theseus,
You can believe whatever you have to believe as long as you don't try to represent your beliefs and conclusions as things that I said.

But to give you some help in what to believe, yes, I have witnessed gold exploration techniques being used by geologists in operation.
And no, not the technique of digging a hole and putting dirt in a plastic bag bound for the MMI lab in Canada.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Hi Theseus,
You can believe whatever you have to believe as long as you don't try to represent your beliefs and conclusions as things that I said.

Best wishes,
J_P

Leaving ones' beliefs, conclusions, opinions and inferences out of the equation is no doubt the best route to take towards a clear understanding.

Rather, just pay attention to the actual words he speaks; "I also am interested in learning some facts instead of just believeing(sic) what other people say."

;)

[J_Player]

Leaving ones' beliefs, conclusions, opinions and inferences out of the equation is no doubt the best route to take towards a clear understanding.

Rather, just pay attention to the actual words he speaks; "I also am interested in learning some facts instead of just believeing(sic) what other people say."

;)Excellent! Will you be going to see for yourself with your own eyes too?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Excellent! Will you be going to see for yourself with your own eyes too?

Best wishes,
J_P

"I also am interested in learning some facts instead of just believeing(sic) what other people say." are YOUR words, not mine!

My intent is to watch very carefully exactly what you say, from now on, and that is how I will decide WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM! No inferences, feelings, or "read between the lines" will enter into it.

However, NO! Seeing for myself is NOT necessarily how I will gain knowledge and insight into things I choose to research. It could be, but wouldn't have to be "seeing for myself". To my way of thinking, that is like taking a giant leap backwards, and akin to reinventing the wheel, or rope.

Rather, if I get data from a source I am comfortable is valid and trustworthy, that is what I will use to gain additional knowledge, when I can't experience things for myself. If in past decades, all scientists worked under the adage that all principles and axioms would need to be experienced with their own eyes before acceptance, I would guess we might still be in the early 1700s, technology-wise.

If you want to conduct your research under your own set of constraints, have at it. (So far... your research appears to be on some kind indefinite hold, so rather a moot point.) :|

[J_Player]

...Seeing for myself is NOT necessarily how I will gain knowledge and insight into things I choose to research. It could be, but wouldn't have to be "seeing for myself". To my way of thinking, that is like taking a giant leap backwards, and akin to reinventing the wheel, or rope.

Rather, if I get data from a source I am comfortable is valid and trustworthy, that is what I will use to gain additional knowledge, when I can't experience things for myself. If in past decades, all scientists worked under the adage that all principles and axioms would need to be experienced with their own eyes before acceptance, I would guess we might still be in the early 1700s, technology-wise... Hi Theseus,

It looks like you have an excellent outlook on how to do your research. As an opinion, I think you will find the answers that are suitable to you with your method. My method is actually the same except I like to see some things with my own eyes instead of relying only on what I read or hear from others. And I do form opinions and talk about them as being my opinions, not other people's opinions.

An interesting exception the concept that most science facts are pretty well known and do not need to be checked by seeing it in person is the discovery of the Americas by Columbus. This is one example where accepting the best known science of the day instead of going to see for himself could have led to us being still back in the 1400s, not the 1700s. Maybe that is why I like Carl's suggestion that we don't need to believe him, we should see for ourselves.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Hi Theseus,

Maybe that is why I like Carl's suggestion that we don't need to believe him, we should see for ourselves.

Best wishes,
J_P

Key phrase there is; "we don't need to believe him". There is nothing indicated in that statement that observers should not believe him, or that it was wrong to believe him.

The option, to see for oneself, is always available to every investigator. The trick is to let logic enter into determining when and if it is prudent to "see with ones own eyes". :)

[J_Player]

Key phrase there is; "we don't need to believe him". There is nothing indicated in that statement that observers should not believe him, or that it was wrong to believe him.

The option, to see for oneself, is always available to ever investigator. The trick is to let logic enter into determining when and if it is prudent to "see with ones own eyes". :)Exactly :thumb:

But there is no trick, just a personal choice of what you want to do.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Jim]

Hi Jim,
Yes, the MMI testing is done by digging samples of soil from below the top layer of dirt where gold ions will show a representative concentration. But mining companies use a lot of other methods to indicate what is below the ground besides MMI testing. Some of these methods are not done from below the ground, but above. In most cases, these tests are not detecting gold ions.

Capturing gold ions from the surface doesn't sound easy to me. To start with, the concentrations they measure below the ground are in the parts per trillion and sometimes less. By the time they reach the surface, they become bound with other elements or become metallic gold particles. Maybe a few ions of the parts per trillion could somehow escape into the air, but how would you collect them?
Wouldn't a single ion blow away in the wind, or quickly neutralise with a charged particle or molecule in the air?
The whole reason why they cease to be ions after they rise from the lower layers of soil is because they no longer are in an environment that has active electrolytes and complexes that support gold ions. They are moving to the surface that is rich in a large array of materials and particles that will bind the ions. This is true of the air as well, which has charged gas molecules as well as particles with molecules that can combine with metal ions from salts or other complexes. In the case of gold, when it loses it's supporting chemical complex, it usually combines with itself to form a metallic gold molecule, that can grow into a particle if other molecules attach.

The gold in the air I read about is metallic microparticles, not ionic. From what I read it was measured at less than 0.003ng/kg for air on average. Because of the wind action, I doubt these measurements would be useful for locating buried gold.

Best wishes,
J_P

Good deal. Thanks for the reply. It tends to get a bit confusing around here sometimes. Especially when treasure hunting, metal detecting and mining are all mixed into the equation :)

[J_Player]

Good deal. Thanks for the reply. It tends to get a bit confusing around here sometimes. Especially when treasure hunting, metal detecting and mining are all mixed into the equation :)Yup.
The ions corroding from gold was only something I offered as an example of how using Carl's suggestion to not believe what he says, but to check for yourself resulted in discovering even Carl can be wrong. I guess anybody can.

I already knew Gold ions could form at buried gold in trace amounts, but I had no clue they followed the path of a column in the soil that moves up above buried metal. I thought the Mineoro pages that show gold ions rising in the soil were only something they speculated about and published as facts. But after checking it the best way I had at hand, I saw how a lot of scientist also found this same column of gold ions rising in the soil. And I found the ion concentration anomalies in the soil were being used by geologists to map the location they expect to find buried metals and ores.

Wow! Carl's advice sure showed me he was right about the way to verify what you believe is true or not. :)

Best wishes
J_P

[J_Player]

I was reading that link I posted about dead tree stumps concentrating gold.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070818101731.htm (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070818101731.htm)

Then I read it again, and it hit me....
"The researchers found native gold, silver and platinum salts in the dust of decayed stumps. A ton of their ashes contains 3 kilograms of silver, nearly 200 milligrams of gold and 5 grams of platinum".

Now, lemme see.... what does treasure metal cost at this moment?
Gold = $35.33 USD/gm
silver = $0.5514 USD/gm
platinum = $35.035 USD/gm

1 ton of decayed tree stump dust measured by researchers:
Gold = 200mg = $7.07 USD
Silver = 3Kg = $1654.20 USD
Platinum = 5 Gm = $175.18 USD
Total treasure metal = $1836 USD (1296 EUR) treasure measured in one ton of decayed tree stump dust.

So how much is a ton of decayed tree stump dust?
It should come between one and two cubic meters depending on the dust.

:) <-- always loved trees.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Yup.
Wow! Carl's advice sure showed me he was right about the way to verify what you believe is true or not. :)

Best wishes
J_P

Cool! What do you suppose happened to that philosophy and the Examiner? :lol:

[J_Player]

Cool! What do you suppose happened to that philosophy and the Examiner? :lol:

What philosophy? It was an observation.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

What philosophy? It was an observation.

Best wishes,
J_P

It's a really fine line we walk, isn't it. :D

What do you suppose happened to that "observation" and the Examiner?

[WM6]

It was an observation.



You started to observe Carl insteed of Examiner?

[J_Player]

You started to observe Carl insteed of Examiner?I observed that Carl's advice sure showed me he was right about the way to verify what you believe is true or not. That observation is made after looking at information I found over a year ago.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

About bionic and ions, read post # 16 in the link posted. Now you can imagine that ions can be "sniffed" with this technique also. In the past we used this technique AFTER many scientific, but not the same method showed in the pic. We called this molecular detection. So, you have in the block diagramm how you can use this info for to build your RS machinery. ;)

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=105922&posted=1#post105922

[J_Player]

About bionic and ions, read post # 16 in the link posted. Now you can imagine that ions can be "sniffed" with this technique also. In the past we used this technique AFTER many scientific, but not the same method showed in the pic. We called this molecular detection. So, you have in the block diagramm how you can use this info for to build your RS machinery. ;)

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=105922&posted=1#post105922Hi Esteban,

The problem with the Bionic sniffing ions is it uses magnetometers for sensors, not a piezo crystal with materials glued on it. It senses changes in magnetic field gradients, not signals from a vibrating crystal or ions. This was shown in the geophysics forum. You can read what the people found there when they posted the data sheet for the sensors used in the Bionic detector at post #17. http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15985

[Esteban]

The method describes for xtal. is not for to sense iron. I'm not refering magnetometer use. :nono:

[J_Player]

The method describes for xtal. is not for to sense iron. I'm not refering magnetometer use. :nono:When you said "About bionic and ions, read post # 16 in the link posted", wasn't your way to say to read your post # 16 to see how the Bionic can detect ions?

Maybe I don't understand why you say about bionic and ions for your post #16.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

When you said "About bionic and ions, read post # 16 in the link posted", wasn't your way to say to read your post # 16 to see how the Bionic can detect ions?

Maybe I don't understand why you say about bionic and ions for your post #16.

Best wishes,
J_P

Bionic for the use of biological (tissue) element as a sample. Here I extend the word for the possible use of this. Ionic... can be used other kind of samples for to detect ions of metals.

[J_Player]

Bionic for the use of biological (tissue) element as a sample. Here I extend the word for the possible use of this. Ionic... can be used other kind of samples for to detect ions of metals.Ok Thank you Esteban.
I ws confused to think you were talking about the principle of the Bionic 01.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Ok Thank you Esteban.
I ws confused to think you were talking about the principle of the Bionic 01.

Best wishes,
J_P

Also was used the word "Biotronic", a mix of biological and electronic.

If you leave the pistol detector fixed on something, the target is not detected. It is only detected when the person carries, seems that also the human being is like an antenna.

[gibon]

An other kind of Bionic from maxfind !! Any suggestion about that stuff ?

:)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMW4GsSGN7M

[gibon]

VIBLAN


http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMW4GsSGN7Mhttp://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMW4GsSGN7M

[Qiaozhi]

An other kind of Bionic from maxfind !! Any suggestion about that stuff ?

:)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMW4GsSGN7M
As usual, no actual target recovered. :rolleyes:

VIBLAN


http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMW4GsSGN7Mhttp://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMW4GsSGN7M
The link is broken. :frown:

[Qiaozhi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcLcvjAnhZQ
:lol:

[Morgan]

ok perfect I see that many have 'drawn the conclusions, I respect but do not share them, I apologize to anyone who wanted more news, but the tests we do "positive or negative will be" soon will not be posted, if you're interested contact me in mp


regardless of what you think if bionic not work, I'd be the first to say, just waiting to do tests before coming to conclusions
reguards


Olá Manolo

This girl told me better invest the money in a second hand Mercedes...
Seems the BIONIC 01 is a bad investment ;)

11203

[Fred]

Girls prefer Ferrari.Better 5th hand Ferrari than 2nd hand Mercedes, except if you are old :razz:

[Geo]

Girls prefer Ferrari.Better 5th hand Ferrari than 2nd hand Mercedes, except if you are old :razz:

Hi Fred
No, Morgan is a young man and sportive type

Regards:)

[putrechigi]

Olá Manolo

This girl told me better invest the money in a second hand Mercedes...
Seems the BIONIC 01 is a bad investment ;)

11203


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
i'm very happy to see that sombody want to joke moore and not offend. i can not test bionic 01 very bad weather in italy but i will said wath appen, now i waith a new bulgarian metal wery powerfull and very cheap if you want information abaout ask me
reguards geo and morgan

[Fred]

I give my best reguards to geo and morgan too.

[Geo]

I give my best reguards to geo and morgan too.

And i to all of you:):)

[bilneo]

Hi all !!
Please i need the schematics and component list for BIONIC 01 If it's possible !!

many regards !! :)

[Morgan]

Hi all !!
Please i need the schematics and component list for BIONIC 01 If it's possible !!

many regards !! :)


Did you already try to ask this schematics to OKM ??? :rolleyes:

[bilneo]

I have found the schematic on another post here on geotech forum, but i have no idea if some one had built it else or not!!

so if some one has finished and tested this divice i wonder if he can post the result of witch deep can it detect gold underground !!


many thanks and regards !!:)

[bilneo]

Hii !!

I have one Question !!!

DOES THE BIONIC 01 WORK REALY LIKE IT'S REPRESENTED IN THE VIDEO AND ON THE OKM SITE WEB OR IT'S JUST A FAKE ???


thanks !!

[Morgan]

Hii !!

I have one Question !!!

DOES THE BIONIC 01 WORK REALY LIKE IT'S REPRESENTED IN THE VIDEO AND ON THE OKM SITE WEB OR IT'S JUST A FAKE ???


thanks !!



Hello Bill

Honestly i know the product,dont waist your time with this device,its proved not work as represented in the video,cant find any gold...

Regards

[detectoman]

morgan have tested all the new lrl show in the market, include dell product, confie en el

[bilneo]

thanks a lot for your clear answer morgan !!

did you test the BIOnic 01 GOLDY of DR. Best Lab ?? given in this thread


http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16186&highlight=bionic


Kindly regards !! :)

[Morgan]

thanks a lot for your clear answer morgan !!

did you test the BIOnic 01 GOLDY of DR. Best Lab ?? given in this thread


http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16186&highlight=bionic


Kindly regards !! :)


I visit the OKM factory,and i have the report of some german friends who try this device.
The Dr.Best schematic i dont try,its not the Bionic 01,but maybe better,who knows ...

[bilneo]

I visit the OKM factory,and i have the report of some german friends who try this device.
The Dr.Best schematic i dont try,its not the Bionic 01,but maybe better,who knows ...



many thanks morgan and best regards !! :)

[Ronin]

Hii !!

I have one Question !!!

DOES THE BIONIC 01 WORK REALY LIKE IT'S REPRESENTED IN THE VIDEO AND ON THE OKM SITE WEB OR IT'S JUST A FAKE ???


thanks !!

Hi bilneo,

Do you see any difference between Bionic and below given IR ? :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsasCc7BA6M

Oops except beeps and cold ring :rolleyes:

All OKM devices are scams. I have many friends of mine, gave thousands of Euros to these toys and wasted their lifetime on mountains even without finding any rubbish. Exp 3000-4000-5000 are furnished brain washers and Bionic is a total IR thermometer with some beeps:lol:

Kind regards,

[Morgan]

Hi bilneo,

Do you see any difference between Bionic and below given IR ? :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsasCc7BA6M

Oops except beeps and cold ring :rolleyes:

All OKM devices are scams. I have many friends of mine, gave thousands of Euros to these toys and wasted their lifetime on mountains even without finding any rubbish. Exp 3000-4000-5000 are furnished brain washers and Bionic is a total IR thermometer with some beeps:lol:

Kind regards,



Its not the same as the IR thermometer ,but when searching for treasures is not better than this...

[Ronin]

Its not the same as the IR thermometer ,but when searching for treasures is not better than this...

Dear Morgan, yep that's the point i want to say.. It is not IR, neither a treasure hunting device, but not more than IR :D

[J_Player]

Hii !!

I have one Question !!!

DOES THE BIONIC 01 WORK REALY LIKE IT'S REPRESENTED IN THE VIDEO AND ON THE OKM SITE WEB OR IT'S JUST A FAKE ???

thanks !!Hi bilneo,
The OKM videos look like fakes to me.
Everyone I know of who bought OKM treasure machines was unhappy because they cannot find treasure with them.
They spend a lot of money for a machine that does nothing to help them find gold.

But the OKM products have some sensors inside, with electronics that make beeps and words appear on the screen.
So what do these electronics do? The OKM treasure machines have been studied many times in the Geotech forums.
What we learned is OKM uses fluxgate magnetometers with electronics to connect them as a gradiometer.
These gradiometers sense variations in the earth's magnetic field, and can find places where there are metals that concentrate the magnetic field, such as a large buried iron tank, and in some cases it could locate a place where there is a cave a large buried non-iron object. I have heard no confirmed reports of anyone finding gold coins or other treasures with any OKM products. From what I have read in this forum, all OKM products are gradiometers with extra electronics to drive the display. The IR appears to be an enhancement that does not give any information about buried objects, but may tell something about the surface temperature of the object it is pointed at.

So how can you find buried gold and other treasures with a gradiometer and an IR sensor? Usually you can't unless the gold is very large and close to the surface. If there is enough gold to displace the ground minerals and cause an anomaly in the earth's magnetic flux, then maybe you could get a reading. -- maybe 20 liters of buried gold could be located from 5 feet distance. A 1-oz buried gold coin? Not possible with the sensors in the OKM detectors.

Here is the main sensor used in the OKM Rover C locator:

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10971&stc=1&d=1264434002 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10971&stc=1&d=1264434002)

As you can see, this is not he most sensitive fluxgate magnetometer, but can be usefull when two of them are connected as a gradiometer. What this detector will find the best is buried iron objects that are close to the surface. Also, keep in mind you can build a gradiometer using better sensors than this for under $150 USD. Or you can buy a better gradiometer for about 1/10 of the cost of OKM.

We also can see one of the OKM videos here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akO1jzVEds8&feature=channel
After watching this video, you will notice the detector only beeped when it was pointed at the shovel with an iron handle.
You never see it beep when it is pointed at the buried treasure. After you see the video, look here to see what I saw in this video:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=104144&postcount=106

This is the same video where Putrechigi said he would visit the man who made the video to see a demonstration for himself.
He did not tell us what he saw during his visit and demonstration, so we have no information from what he saw first hand.

An OKM treasure finder was fully studied in the geophysics forum section.
You should read all of this forum thread before you decide to buy any OKM machine: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15985

Best wishes,
J_P

[Funfinder]

Geo wrote:
For a person that likes the coin hunting the PD is useless, but for a person that look for big treasures the LRL is Must.
Maybe, but if you are lucky even the cheapest detector can find jewelry with very precious stones or rare gold coins! :D

[Funfinder]

Wow, 20 pages and absolutly nothing technical about the OKM Bionic 01 at all...

But at least it's been entertaining.

[Morgan]

Wow, 20 pages and absolutly nothing technical about the OKM Bionic 01 at all...

But at least it's been entertaining.



As i told you before,most of LRLs are electromagnetic field detectors...

12278

[Funfinder]

@ Morgan
pm me the mail of this cuty girl and I'll find with here some treasures for sure! :cool:

And Morgan - electro is not magnetic is not gravity is not 4dimensional "Einstein field". For getting the most success we have always to select the right definitions. There are also theories out there about scalar waves and "remembering atomar particles" - see the Schroedingers Experiment and the behavior of light like wave and materie. This is a complex topic. Hell, what a complicated world? :shocked: And we should discover and handle it right to discover the most precious treasures! :D

@ xyz = "variable":
I really have something against that whole impution that all those LRL producers just built their LRLs to fool, rob and beass other people. Please think twice: Would YOU built such stuff just for making "easy n dirty money"? Would you really like to go that risky way?

Why you just can think those MD inventors try their best but the whole "LRL thing" is a real not easy topic?!

Do you really think everyone out there is a thief and goes over bodys for his own salvation? :nono: :nono: :nono:

@ Morgan
At least the Bionic Alpha or 01 can restrict the detection range or wideness degree of the searched target very good, or what do you think?

[Morgan]

@ Morgan
pm me the mail of this cuty girl and I'll find with here some treasures for sure! :cool:

And Morgan - electro is not magnetic is not gravity is not 4dimensional "Einstein field". For getting the most success we have always to select the right definitions. There are also theories out there about scalar waves and "remembering atomar particles" - see the Schroedingers Experiment and the behavior of light like wave and materie. This is a complex topic. Hell, what a complicated world? :shocked: And we should discover and handle it right to discover the most precious treasures! :D

@ xyz = "variable":
I really have something against that whole impution that all those LRL producers just built their LRLs to fool, rob and beass other people. Please think twice: Would YOU built such stuff just for making "easy n dirty money"? Would you really like to go that risky way?

Why you just can think those MD inventors try their best but the whole "LRL thing" is a real not easy topic?!

Do you really think everyone out there is a thief and goes over bodys for his own salvation? :nono: :nono: :nono:

@ Morgan
At least the Bionic Alpha or 01 can restrict the detection range or wideness degree of the searched target very good, or what do you think?


The BIONIC 01 is not good LRL,this is for sure,and the BIONIC ALPHA i cant say nothing about,i never try and dont know people who try this OKM detector...

[georgegino]

Hi everybody...i'm new here and haven't read all the posts about BIONIC 01
BUT.....once i have it in my hands and i made many tests since today ,i have to give you the results and if somebody can explain be my guest..

So , i ve got 20 gold coins to callibrate it.I put the device to ionic mode and i point the coins using the laser (always from north to south).When the device autolocks a frequency from target (gold coins) i lock the frequency and it's ready.After that wherever i put the gold (on the surface) i find it even if it's behind huge rocks or woods or the other side of the hill and even if i can't see the place i put it to the other side of the hill.That's for sure...
I also put the gold into the soil about 30-40 cm depth.I found it again easy from 50m away and from many angles (but always having north to my back).

So... i don't say the device is good or not..afterall it's not mine (i wouldn't give so easy 13000euros)...but ..how can you explain all these...it could help me to understand if all this i get is true or something else that i don't have the technical knowledge to explain.
Anyway if somebody has a good explanation for this let me know ..i ve got the device and i can test it again .
The sure is that i find the gold anywhere around but i don't know if this is based on ionic or electromagnetic or fake targeting.
Thanks and waiting (sorry for the bad english)

[WM6]

.... or fake targeting.



.... fake for sure (as your promotion too)

[luciano furtado]

Hi everybody...i'm new here and haven't read all the posts about BIONIC 01
BUT.....once i have it in my hands and i made many tests since today ,i have to give you the results and if somebody can explain be my guest..

So , i ve got 20 gold coins to callibrate it.I put the device to ionic mode and i point the coins using the laser (always from north to south).When the device autolocks a frequency from target (gold coins) i lock the frequency and it's ready.After that wherever i put the gold (on the surface) i find it even if it's behind huge rocks or woods or the other side of the hill and even if i can't see the place i put it to the other side of the hill.That's for sure...
I also put the gold into the soil about 30-40 cm depth.I found it again easy from 50m away and from many angles (but always having north to my back).

So... i don't say the device is good or not..afterall it's not mine (i wouldn't give so easy 13000euros)...but ..how can you explain all these...it could help me to understand if all this i get is true or something else that i don't have the technical knowledge to explain.
Anyway if somebody has a good explanation for this let me know ..i ve got the device and i can test it again .
The sure is that i find the gold anywhere around but i don't know if this is based on ionic or electromagnetic or fake targeting.
Thanks and waiting (sorry for the bad english)

Georgino friend you could post your video tests to see us thank you good luck with your device...