In my system, in the radio...

[Esteban]

... is the phase shift.

Exactly as I made with a FM radio since more than 20 years ago! So, IR can be used for electronic LRL.

[Fred]

:rolleyes: you should read it again Esteban

[J_Player]

:rolleyes: you should read it again EstebanYou mean an FM radio cannot receive acoustic waves? :oh:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

You mean an FM radio cannot receive acoustic waves? :oh:

Best wishes,
J_P

Of course, in the paper is used microphone, but in radio appears variation in tone. I use other way. How many times I'll repeat it? :lol:

[Fred]

Now i am a skeptic :lol:

[Esteban]

Now i am a skeptic :lol:

Congratulations, you're in the correct point! :lol:

[Seden]

Fred,

You need to not only read the text again but think through how the light beam would be affected by the reaction of the material being radiated. Esteban's method is correct and logical.

Now I am skeptical of you Fred. The light beam is being modulated just as if it were hitting a mirror that was shaking. In a way it's similar to the old system of using a long spring to create reverb in a guitar amplifier.

Thank you for being patient Esteban. Keep up the good work.

Randy

[J_Player]

Fred,

You need to not only read the text again but think through how the light beam would be affected by the reaction of the material being radiated. Esteban's method is correct and logical.

Now I am skeptical of you Fred. The light beam is being modulated just as if it were hitting a mirror that was shaking. In a way it's similar to the old system of using a long spring to create reverb in a guitar amplifier.

Thank you for being patient Esteban. Keep up the good work.

Randy
I did think about it. Isn't the material Esteban is irradiating the top layer of dirt? What seems hard to understand is how an IR light beam from an IR LED drawing a maximum of maybe 50ma can cause buried gold to become heated, considering the layer of soil stops the beam as you scan across the ground at long range. In fact, most IR LEDs beams begin to diffuse after a few inches so they are no longer truly a beam like a laser by the time they are 10 feet ahead of you. And being diffused at this distance as well as held to a shallow angle near to horizontal, any heating power remaining is also diffused as you scan it in front of you.

The page that Esteban posted shows an acoustically isolated container filled with inert gas that directs chopped IR light through a window to beat down directly on the target. It does not show that the target is hidden under dirt which is being illuminated at a shallow angle from an IR LED at some distance. Maybe it's just me, but it doesn't seem that shining an IR led 10 feet ahead on the surface of the dirt to identify metals that are buried is the same.

The diagram I see is not "exactly as Esteban made with a FM radio since more than 20 years ago". And I suspect any conclusions to the effect that it is "exactly the same" are untested speculations. That is, unless someone can provide some test data to show that the buried targets are actually verified to begin vibrating on a molecular level at the time when an angled IR LED illumination is swept past the ground where it is buried. A microphone monitoring a sample in an inert gas container buried four inches below the surface would convince me.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Seden]

Fair enough J_P but consider the long time buried gold having some of it becoming leached and the gold atoms reaching the surface via the wicking effect. How much is needed to cause even the slightest changes in the IR light is unknown. Yes I would use a IR laser to be sure which would be more effective and have bought one for just such a test.

Other than the wicking effect of the atoms of gold I would tend to agree as light does not penetrate very far in dirt. Laser would do a better job but not to depth that's for sure and would certainly do the job of heating the gold atoms on the surface.

Yes we can play verbal tennis all day long and our opinions are like peoples noses, everyone has one. One of us will have to build and test it for the group and offer the results. Sort of like you volunteering to test the RangerTell wouldn't you think?



Randy

[Esteban]

Remember that the IR light is a long antenna focussed on target (this work better when target is buried for long time). Maybe 2 IR leds don't hot the target, but detect the variations and receiver sniff the difference. Don't know if this IR beam detect the molecular vibrations of materials. IR is also sensitive to copper and bronze, lead is "cold" material.

[Fred]

Fred,

You need to not only read the text again but think through how the light beam would be affected by the reaction of the material being radiated. Esteban's method is correct and logical.

Now I am skeptical of you Fred. The light beam is being modulated just as if it were hitting a mirror that was shaking. In a way it's similar to the old system of using a long spring to create reverb in a guitar amplifier.

Thank you for being patient Esteban. Keep up the good work.

Randy


I am sorry you became sceptical of me so quickly.:D

Reading it carefully, i could see IR penetration was a few microns or molecular layers.Then that the material should vibrate- while buried :shocked: - and vibration effects should escape the medium.
All this with a simple IR led that in no way can heat a burried target, or make it "oscillate".
Then i became skeptical :lol:

Sorry Esteban, but i see absolutely no progress in you experiments, on the contrary.Maybe you are becoming aware that humans often fail - mislead by their passions - But i will continue reading your posts with interest.


Regards,
Fred.

[J_Player]

Fair enough J_P but consider the long time buried gold having some of it becoming leached and the gold atoms reaching the surface via the wicking effect. How much is needed to cause even the slightest changes in the IR light is unknown. Yes I would use a IR laser to be sure which would be more effective and have bought one for just such a test.

Other than the wicking effect of the atoms of gold I would tend to agree as light does not penetrate very far in dirt. Laser would do a better job but not to depth that's for sure and would certainly do the job of heating the gold atoms on the surface.

Yes we can play verbal tennis all day long and our opinions are like peoples noses, everyone has one. One of us will have to build and test it for the group and offer the results. Sort of like you volunteering to test the RangerTell wouldn't you think?



Randy
You might have a point about microscopic gold atoms that leach to the surface. But the ions measured below the soil are in the parts per trillion for gold that has been buried for tens of thousands of years and longer. So we are talking about negligible amounts at the surface, especially for micro gold atoms that leach from targets which have been buried less than a few hundred years.

The experiment to test it is easy. All you need is a sealed container with an IR transparent cover on the top. The soil around it will act as an acoustic barrier. A glass jar with a microphone leading to an audio amp would do, wouldn't it?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

I am sorry you became sceptical of me so quickly.:D

Reading it carefully, i could see IR penetration was a few microns or molecular layers.Then that the material should vibrate- while buried :shocked: - and vibration effects should escape the medium.
All this with a simple IR led that in no way can heat a burried target, or make it "oscillate".
Then i became skeptical :lol:

Sorry Esteban, but i see absolutely no progress in you experiments, on the contrary.Maybe you are becoming aware that humans often fail - mislead by their passions - But i will continue reading your posts with interest.


Regards,
Fred.

I'm leaving practical experiences 30 years in this matter, differences...

[J_Player]

I am sorry you became sceptical of me so quickly.:D

Reading it carefully, i could see IR penetration was a few microns or molecular layers.Then that the material should vibrate- while buried :shocked: - and vibration effects should escape the medium.
All this with a simple IR led that in no way can heat a burried target, or make it "oscillate".
Then i became skeptical :lol:

Sorry Esteban, but i see absolutely no progress in you experiments, on the contrary.Maybe you are becoming aware that humans often fail - mislead by their passions - But i will continue reading your posts with interest.


Regards,
Fred.Hi Fred,
Did you read what Seden wrote?
Gold can leach as ions and become traces of microscopic gold particles mixed in the soil at the surface. Maybe not much gold, but suppose we built a large IR searchlight ... maybe 50 IR lasers in a cylinder all pulsed at the same time and aimed it at the dirt. If there was enough power, then maybe the microscopic gold particles at the surface would vibrate hard enough to cause the dirt to start jiggling. Then you could walk around and listen for the sound of oscillating dirt to find your treasure location.

But be careful not to look toward the IR lasers.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

With only 2 IR leds you detect a 0.5 cm long 3 mm diameter copper wire at 5 meters, buried 10 cm or less.

[Fred]

I'm leaving practical experiences 30 years in this matter, differences...

If you don´t progress, you regress...
Nothing personal Esteban, just about facts.

Hi Fred,
Did you read what Seden wrote?
Gold can leach as ions and become traces of microscopic gold particles mixed in the soil at the surface. Maybe not much gold, but suppose we built a large IR searchlight ... maybe 50 IR lasers in a cylinder all pulsed at the same time and aimed it at the dirt. If there was enough power, then maybe the microscopic gold particles at the surface would vibrate hard enough to cause the dirt to start jiggling. Then you could walk around and listen for the sound of oscillating dirt to find your treasure location.

But be careful not to look toward the IR lasers.

Best wishes,
J_P
Yes, JP, we should try this sometime.Just a truck-sized detector should suffice.
but then i wonder what we can do if the soil only contain gold particles and nuggets/coins/bars....

[J_Player]

...Yes, JP, we should try this sometime. Just a truck-sized detector should suffice.
but then i wonder what we can do if the soil only contain gold particles and nuggets/coins/bars....Hi Fred,
If you are using a 10 KW generator to power the IR laser array and you come to some gold nuggets and bars,
then you will be in danger of possible injury or death from melting gold objects moving about.

I suggest you take suitable precautions to keep safe from injury:

:oh:

[WM6]

With only 2 IR leds you detect a 0.5 cm long 3 mm diameter copper wire at 5 meters, buried 10 cm or less.



For sure, if you know where wire is buried. As always in your magic tricks.

[Fred]

but then i wonder what we can do if the soil only contain gold particles and nuggets/coins/bars....
I meant "but then i wonder what we can do if the soil only contain gold particles and NO nuggets/coins/bars"
Forgot to read before posting :(

[Seden]

"but then i wonder what we can do if the soil only contain gold particles and NO nuggets/coins/bars"

That's a very valid question and in that case you end up with an empty hole in the ground. That equally applies to Geochemical Prospecting which happened to me several years ago. I had soil samples from several areas and this one spot had so much micron gold the test tube bubbled over and I thought EUREKA!! Upon drywashing the soil and running the cons I came up empty handed and realized I was in an area that could only be leached to get the gold out but boy howdy it is a very pregnant spot!

Randy

[Esteban]

[quote=Fred;102833]If you don´t progress, you regress...
Nothing personal Esteban, just about facts.]

Who said I'm in regression? You? Facts? I have 1,000! :razz:

[Esteban]

I meant "but then i wonder what we can do if the soil only contain gold particles and NO nuggets/coins/bars"
Forgot to read before posting :(

I think this is not normal in you... :razz:

[detectoman]

no te desesperes esteban con todos estos comentarios yo te entiendo, ya lo has dicho demasiado, y aun no te leen?

[Astrodetect]

Thanks Esteban for your information, I believe your experiences.You are fortunate to have all these experiences.
Now for the skeptics, can somebody please explain with scientific facts why an IR modulated beam CANNOT shift its frequency and phase when its in the presence of an electromagnetic field of a buried metal, or if prefer, in a magnetic field anomaly of a buried metal?
I would like to hear FACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[J_Player]

Thanks Esteban for your information, I believe your experiences.You are fortunate to have all these experiences.
Now for the skeptics, can somebody please explain with scientific facts why an IR modulated beam CANNOT shift its frequency and phase when its in the presence of an electromagnetic field of a buried metal, or if prefer, in a magnetic field anomaly of a buried metal?
I would like to hear FACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!I am a skeptic about what Esteban posted. But I am not skeptical the question you asked.

My argument is with the words Esteban posted, not what you are asking to prove.
What Esteban posted was a page showing a metal sample in an acoustic isolated container that had a microphone attached to listen for vibrating sounds it makes when a pulsed IR light beam shines on it.

We all read what Esteban posted:

"... is the phase shift.

Exactly as I made with a FM radio since more than 20 years ago! So, IR can be used for electronic LRL."

The fact is it is not exactly the same. It is not even similar. Esteban comes here with the intent to collect his glory as a great experimenter and innovator, which he is. But he distributes misinformation in order to collect his glory. This is the Geotech forum, the most highly respected technical metal locating forum in the world. And it is wrong to use false information to prove you are a glorious innovator. The result is there are readers all over the world believing Esteban's buried gold targets are vibrating under the ground causing RF phase shift, when he has performed no testing to verify there is any vibration happening in his buried target metals. He is publishing his declaration of "Exactly as I made with a FM radio since more than 20 years ago" based on pure speculation.

The fact is Esteban does not know whether his buried targets are vibrating or not. He has not made a single test in all his years to measure any acoustic vibrations as shown in the paper he posted. All he knows is his FM radio sound changes when he shines his detector at a place where he says there is a buried treasure. The proof is easy to make, but he has not done it.

And now you are asking skeptics to explain with scientific facts why an IR modulated beam CANNOT shift its frequency and phase when its in the presence of an electromagnetic field of a buried metal. Nobody here said that can't be done. What I said is the acoustic waves we see in the paper Esteban posted are not the same as what Esteban did with an FM radio since more than 20 years ago. There is a big difference between listening to acoustic sounds of a vibrating chunk of metal, and listening to a variation in a sound from an FM radio that has it's RF altered.

One thing Esteban didn't explain is the sound variation he heard from the FM radio was never verified to be caused by a phase shift. The truth is that Esteban does not know what causes the change in the sound. Maybe it was caused by a phase shift, or maybe it was caused by a second frequency interfering, or maybe some kind of modulation on the carrier. But Esteban has no clue what electronic fluctuation causes the audio change. Can Esteban supply some way to demonstrate that there was a indeed phase shift in the signal received on his FM radio? ... Or is this more speculation that he is assuming must be true because he concluded the buried metal started vibrating?

Has it ever occurred to you that this kind of sloppy chain of logic, where it is ok to speculate to arrive at conclusions could be the basis for where science ends and pseudoscience starts?

How many ignorant people do you suppose will believe they have just read solid proof that an IR LED shining on the dirt will cause buried metal to vibrate? How many wasted arguments must we endure in a forum where the best minds in metal locating are supposed to be at least conversant in the basics of logic enough to show some proof that supports their conclusions?

You said you want FACTS. Yet you have been listening to speculation from Esteban as if it were facts. I have no argument against your question about why a modulated IR beam cannot experience a phase shift. My argument is Esteban is publishing misinformation to collect his glory. His FM receiver is not exactly or even remotely the same as the acoustic apparatus he posted. My argument is it is highly unlikely that an IR LED will cause a buried metal item 10 feet away to begin vibrating to cause a phase shift in an FM broadcast receiver. My second argument is I have yet to see any evidence that there is a phase shift. How does Esteban know the phase has shifted?

My challenge to Esteban is to show real proof that the phase shifts in his FM receiver when he shines his IR LED in the direction of buried treasure. Real proof comes in the form of graphs that are charted by electronic equipment that measure phase shifts. I doubt there is any phase shift. But I may be wrong, so show me.

Also show me some proof buried metal is vibrating when you shine your IR LED on the dirt above it. This is simple to do. Put your sample metal in a glass jar with a microphone attached to listen inside and bury it with 8 cm of dirt on top of it. Then record the sounds that come when you shine the IR led at the dirt.

I am anxious to see these two things. I don't believe the buried metal begins vibrating, nor do I believe your FM receiver is seeing a phase shift. If the sound is changing on your FM receiver, I think it is a change of wave-shape which is commonly referred to as "voice" or "envelope" in audio terms. This is not caused by RF phase shift. Prove me wrong!

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

I would like to hear FACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!



The FACT is that Esteban with his electronically intentional decorated dowsing rods is never found or granules precious metals (other than those buried by himself) in his life and it never will. This is well known FACT, except for the blind LRL believers.

For smart guys is that FACT enough, but for the greedy, there is a penalty in the form of mineoro nad such expensive worthless boxes.

[Fred]

"but then i wonder what we can do if the soil only contain gold particles and NO nuggets/coins/bars"

That's a very valid question and in that case you end up with an empty hole in the ground. That equally applies to Geochemical Prospecting which happened to me several years ago. I had soil samples from several areas and this one spot had so much micron gold the test tube bubbled over and I thought EUREKA!! Upon drywashing the soil and running the cons I came up empty handed and realized I was in an area that could only be leached to get the gold out but boy howdy it is a very pregnant spot!

Randy
Of course this is one of the ways to get 100% positive results, empty hole being in fact potentially filled by particles. :rolleyes:

[quote=Fred;102833]If you don´t progress, you regress...Nothing personal Esteban, just about facts.]
Who said I'm in regression? You? Facts? I have 1,000! :razz:
Progress would mean you discover what (effect) you are detecting and how.Until then you will be just guessing. Like someone discovering fire but unable to make it.

[Esteban]

Progress: I don't need helium or other mechanical disposition, this is also progress. :razz:

Glory: Here I can't obtain, nobody can't obtain here, even in the most important forum of MD on the world. Just I wish to explain that many things made of other in the past, today is "discovered", this is, re-discovered with implementation of modern equipment. Do you see the great quantity of old information I've been posted about devices that exist in the past under other denomination and constructed with old and simple materials?

I want obtain more with minus, this is the reason why I use simple apparatus like radio, etc. In other words: as I can't complicate the thinks for to be more creditable, appears as bogus. Respectable people demmand many complicated formulas wich make more creditable the theme, sometimes a form of lying elegantly.

Maybe I'm wrong. But... prove it!

[Astrodetect]

Ok lets get things straight here. Esteban has posted a very large quantity of data that he obtained with his research all these years. We are very grateful for this wealth of information from you Esteban.Thanks you very much.
Now about the radio, we all know that the FM radio has a demodulator for FM and this is the best circuit to demodulate the frequency differences in a modulated signal, either RF or IR or US. Now, on the other hand he is insisting that the frequency shifts when you are in the vicinity of a long time buried metal. So why dont you focus on this and build some circuits and test them to see for yourself???

[Esteban]

I am a skeptic about what Esteban posted. But I am not skeptical the question you asked.

My argument is with the words Esteban posted, not what you are asking to prove.
What Esteban posted was a page showing a metal sample in an acoustic isolated container that had a microphone attached to listen for vibrating sounds it makes when a pulsed IR light beam shines on it.

We all read what Esteban posted:

"... is the phase shift.

Exactly as I made with a FM radio since more than 20 years ago! So, IR can be used for electronic LRL."

The fact is it is not exactly the same. It is not even similar. Esteban comes here with the intent to collect his glory as a great experimenter and innovator, which he is. But he distributes misinformation in order to collect his glory. This is the Geotech forum, the most highly respected technical metal locating forum in the world. And it is wrong to use false information to prove you are a glorious innovator. The result is there are readers all over the world believing Esteban's buried gold targets are vibrating under the ground causing RF phase shift, when he has performed no testing to verify there is any vibration happening in his buried target metals. He is publishing his declaration of "Exactly as I made with a FM radio since more than 20 years ago" based on pure speculation.

The fact is Esteban does not know whether his buried targets are vibrating or not. He has not made a single test in all his years to measure any acoustic vibrations as shown in the paper he posted. All he knows is his FM radio sound changes when he shines his detector at a place where he says there is a buried treasure. The proof is easy to make, but he has not done it.

And now you are asking skeptics to explain with scientific facts why an IR modulated beam CANNOT shift its frequency and phase when its in the presence of an electromagnetic field of a buried metal. Nobody here said that can't be done. What I said is the acoustic waves we see in the paper Esteban posted are not the same as what Esteban did with an FM radio since more than 20 years ago. There is a big difference between listening to acoustic sounds of a vibrating chunk of metal, and listening to a variation in a sound from an FM radio that has it's RF altered.

One thing Esteban didn't explain is the sound variation he heard from the FM radio was never verified to be caused by a phase shift. The truth is that Esteban does not know what causes the change in the sound. Maybe it was caused by a phase shift, or maybe it was caused by a second frequency interfering, or maybe some kind of modulation on the carrier. But Esteban has no clue what electronic fluctuation causes the audio change. Can Esteban supply some way to demonstrate that there was a indeed phase shift in the signal received on his FM radio? ... Or is this more speculation that he is assuming must be true because he concluded the buried metal started vibrating?

Has it ever occurred to you that this kind of sloppy chain of logic, where it is ok to speculate to arrive at conclusions could be the basis for where science ends and pseudoscience starts?

How many ignorant people do you suppose will believe they have just read solid proof that an IR LED shining on the dirt will cause buried metal to vibrate? How many wasted arguments must we endure in a forum where the best minds in metal locating are supposed to be at least conversant in the basics of logic enough to show some proof that supports their conclusions?

You said you want FACTS. Yet you have been listening to speculation from Esteban as if it were facts. I have no argument against your question about why a modulated IR beam cannot experience a phase shift. My argument is Esteban is publishing misinformation to collect his glory. His FM receiver is not exactly or even remotely the same as the acoustic apparatus he posted. My argument is it is highly unlikely that an IR LED will cause a buried metal item 10 feet away to begin vibrating to cause a phase shift in an FM broadcast receiver. My second argument is I have yet to see any evidence that there is a phase shift. How does Esteban know the phase has shifted?

My challenge to Esteban is to show real proof that the phase shifts in his FM receiver when he shines his IR LED in the direction of buried treasure. Real proof comes in the form of graphs that are charted by electronic equipment that measure phase shifts. I doubt there is any phase shift. But I may be wrong, so show me.

Also show me some proof buried metal is vibrating when you shine your IR LED on the dirt above it. This is simple to do. Put your sample metal in a glass jar with a microphone attached to listen inside and bury it with 8 cm of dirt on top of it. Then record the sounds that come when you shine the IR led at the dirt.

I am anxious to see these two things. I don't believe the buried metal begins vibrating, nor do I believe your FM receiver is seeing a phase shift. If the sound is changing on your FM receiver, I think it is a change of wave-shape which is commonly referred to as "voice" or "envelope" in audio terms. This is not caused by RF phase shift. Prove me wrong!

Best wishes,
J_P

I will go further:
For to be sure that buried metal vibrates (atomic or molecular, yes vibrates, all scientists know this), AND CAN BE DETECTED AT DISTANCE, I construct a deviced based on Xtal. I supossed that Xtal. will be affected by the "signature" of each metal. I have some buried gold in house. I discover wich Xtal. is the correct for gold (of course, the Xtal. can be in harmonic) because the non-correct Xtals. did not detect well. This demmand changes and changes. When I obtain the correct Xtal. I found a gold chain in my patio that confirm me the relations of the molecular (or atomic) vibration and Xtal. Of course, I speculate about this possibility and obtain results. Also I detect other gold items, include a coin. A big bronze item (part of old riffle) buried 130 years (battlefield) only give a short beep due the size. Bronze buttons with part with gold also was detected.

I don't pretend measure temperature with IR, for example, only detect metals with it. This was making hundred times. Of course, I'll film some day all it. Maybe my speculations about molecular or atomic vibration is not correct, but results was obtained.

[Esteban]

Ok lets get things straight here. Esteban has posted a very large quantity of data that he obtained with his research all these years. We are very grateful for this wealth of information from you Esteban.Thanks you very much.
Now about the radio, we all know that the FM radio has a demodulator for FM and this is the best circuit to demodulate the frequency differences in a modulated signal, either RF or IR or US. Now, on the other hand he is insisting that the frequency shifts when you are in the vicinity of a long time buried metal. So why dont you focus on this and build some circuits and test them to see for yourself???

Thanks for your comprehensive words. You can generated the IR with a IC 555 at 50% duty cicle. Not experimented yet with variable duty cycle, 30 to 90% for example. Now, consumption of 2 IR leds is high. When battery of IR leds go in degradation (power loss), you'll readjust the sensibility control (radio volume). So, is better here powerfull batteries with regulated power.

Of course, some day I can put all this here or in a book, but the glory is for persons wich can convert it in formulas. Alonso told me: "the glory will be for others".

[WM6]

Esteban has posted a very large quantity of data that he obtained with his research all these years.



This is like: if we all, instead of walking into the the shops, walking to landfill waste and bear it all to home again. In many cases, interesting historical data, but no more than that.

Creating the magic of science from mostly unsuccessful historical attempts can be fun time-wasting, but still only a waste of time, until it is redeemed to naive, as it does Mineoro.

[Fred]

Of course, some day I can put all this here or in a book, but the glory is for persons wich can convert it in formulas.
This is what i told you, you must progress: understand and explain what is is cause.
If you cant then the glory will be for others, but maybe there will be no glory at all because there is nothing to explain.

I like you old schematics but they explain nothing.

Alonso told me: "the glory will be for others".
BTW ,what do you need glory for ? And if you tell nothing , do you think you will have glory?

[J_Player]

I will go further:
For to be sure that buried metal vibrates (atomic or molecular, yes vibrates, all scientists know this), AND CAN BE DETECTED AT DISTANCE, I construct a deviced based on Xtal. I supossed that Xtal. will be affected by the "signature" of each metal. I have some buried gold in house. I discover wich Xtal. is the correct for gold (of course, the Xtal. can be in harmonic) because the non-correct Xtals. did not detect well. This demmand changes and changes. When I obtain the correct Xtal. I found a gold chain in my patio that confirm me the relations of the molecular (or atomic) vibration and Xtal. Of course, I speculate about this possibility and obtain results. Also I detect other gold items, include a coin. A big bronze item (part of old riffle) buried 130 years (battlefield) only give a short beep due the size. Bronze buttons with part with gold also was detected.

I don't pretend measure temperature with IR, for example, only detect metals with it. This was making hundred times. Of course, I'll film some day all it. Maybe my speculations about molecular or atomic vibration is not correct, but results was obtained.I have not made any comments challenging whether you have detected metals or used IR LEDs.

My challenge to you is to show real proof that the phase shifts in your FM receiver when you shine your IR LED in the direction of buried treasure. Real proof comes in the form of graphs that are charted by electronic equipment that measure phase shifts. I doubt there is any phase shift. But I may be wrong, so show me.

Everyone knows molecules of all physical material vibrate, but the article you posted shows they generate a characteristic vibration that can be detected as an acoustic sound that you can hear in a microphone when you shine chopped IR light on the target material. This is what you are said is exactly as what you did 20 years ago with IR and measured as phase shift with an FM receiver.
So show us some proof buried metal begins vibrating to make a sound when you shine your IR LED on the dirt above it. This is simple to do. Put your sample metal in a glass jar with a microphone attached to listen inside and bury it with 8 cm of dirt on top of it. Then record the sounds that come when you shine the IR led at the dirt. No crystal will prove this, It is an acoustic sound that you can hear and record with a microphone placed with the sample metal. I already know the IR LED will not cause it to make a detectable sound unless you remove the dirt from the top of the metal to let the IR shine on it. So show us how we can hear the microphone sound that comes when the IR light is shined on the dirt as you claimed. And show us a chart of the phase shift you measured in the FM signal.

You have asserted both of these things in your posts above, to leave the impression that the IR LED you used over 10 years ago is causing an increase in the acoustic vibration of buried metals which cause a phase shift that you hear on your FM receiver. I think you are publishing false information. It is simple as that. I believe you don't know what the changes in the received RF signal on your FM radio at the time when you shine an IR LED over a buried target metal. Nor do I think buried metal begins to vibrate due to an IR LED shining on dirt above it as described in your post. I am anxious to see these two things. If the sound is changing on your FM receiver, I think you heard a change of wave-shape which is commonly referred to as "voice" or "envelope" in audio terms. This is not caused by RF phase shift. And not caused by acoustic vibrations of a buried metal target. Prove me wrong!

I say you are posting misinformation to make people to believe shining an IR LED on the dirt will cause buried metals begin to vibrate and make an acoustic sound. I believe it is simply not true. It doesn't work for buried metals and an IR LED. The metals must have the IR light shining on them in order to detect the acoustic vibrations as shown in your diagram.

Now you are saying you will build a crystal device that will identify different metals. This also does not prove your IR LEDs are causing the buried metals to begin making acoustic sounds. I believe it is another attempt to avoid doing the simple test to see if a microphone hears the acoustic sounds or not when you shine your LEDs, or to show the phase shift image of the signal you receive on your FM receiver.

The fact is you posted misinformation, and you are now using every technique you can think of to avoid backing up what you said about FM phase shift and acoustic vibrations beginning when you shine IR led in the dirt above metals. Should we begin to speculate as you do, and conclude you already know there is no acoustic sound that can be heard with a microphone from buried metals? Should we conclude you won't perform the simple tests because you know it will prove you wrong about the diagram you posted as being the same as what you did?

I will just take your RF phase shift and acoustic assertions to be speculation that is false, and you are unwilling to prove to be the same as shown in your diagram.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

I have not made any comments challenging whether you have detected metals or used IR LEDs.

My challenge to you is to show real proof that the phase shifts in your FM receiver when you shine your IR LED in the direction of buried treasure. Real proof comes in the form of graphs that are charted by electronic equipment that measure phase shifts. I doubt there is any phase shift. But I may be wrong, so show me.

Everyone knows molecules of all physical material vibrate, but the article you posted shows they generate a characteristic vibration that can be detected as an acoustic sound that you can hear in a microphone when you shine chopped IR light on the target material. This is what you are said is exactly as what you did 20 years ago with IR and measured as phase shift with an FM receiver.
So show us some proof buried metal begins vibrating to make a sound when you shine your IR LED on the dirt above it. This is simple to do. Put your sample metal in a glass jar with a microphone attached to listen inside and bury it with 8 cm of dirt on top of it. Then record the sounds that come when you shine the IR led at the dirt. No crystal will prove this, It is an acoustic sound that you can hear and record with a microphone placed with the sample metal. I already know the IR LED will not cause it to make a detectable sound unless you remove the dirt from the top of the metal to let the IR shine on it. So show us how we can hear the microphone sound that comes when the IR light is shined on the dirt as you claimed. And show us a chart of the phase shift you measured in the FM signal.

You have asserted both of these things in your posts above, to leave the impression that the IR LED you used over 10 years ago is causing an increase in the acoustic vibration of buried metals which cause a phase shift that you hear on your FM receiver. I think you are publishing false information. It is simple as that. I believe you don't know what the changes in the received RF signal on your FM radio at the time when you shine an IR LED over a buried target metal. Nor do I think buried metal begins to vibrate due to an IR LED shining on it as described in the article you posted. I am anxious to see these two things. If the sound is changing on your FM receiver, I think you heard a change of wave-shape which is commonly referred to as "voice" or "envelope" in audio terms. This is not caused by RF phase shift. Prove me wrong!

I say you are posting misinformation to make people to believe shining an IR LED on the dirt will cause buried metals begin to vibrate and make an acoustic sound. I believe it is simply not true. It doesn't work for buried metals and an IR LED. The metals must have the IR light shining on them in order to detect the acoustic vibrations as shown in your diagram.

Now you are saying you will build a crystal device that will identify different metals. This also does not prove your IR LEDs are causing the buried metals to begin making acoustic sounds. I believe it is another attempt to avoid doing the simple test to see if the acoustic sounds are there are not when you shine your LEDs, or show a phase shift graph of the signal you receive on your FM receiver.

The fact is you posted misinformation, and you are now using every technique you can think of to avoid backing up what you said about FM phase shift and acoustic vibrations beginning when you shine IR led in the dirt above metals.

I will just take your RF phase shift and acoustic assertions to be speculation that is false, and you are unwilling to prove as shown in your diagram.

Best wishes,
J_P

I've read his "wild" claims and have come to the same conclusions as you voiced above.

Past experiences indicate there will be no proof coming; just a continuance of the wild assertions and misinformation.

Apparently, some get an ego boost from posting misinformation and sparse incomplete details to a pseudo locating system or device they want others to believe works for them, and them alone.

I guess.... whatever trips your trigger. :D

[J_Player]

I've read his "wild" claims and have come to the same conclusions as you voiced above.

Past experiences indicate there will be no proof coming; just a continuance of the wild assertions and misinformation.

Apparently, some get an ego boost from posting misinformation and sparse incomplete details to a pseudo locating system or device they want others to believe works for them, and them alone.

I guess.... whatever trips your trigger. :DExactly.
Esteban avoids showing the simple proof in his diagram by putting a microphone to a sample buried in dirt.
Then he says he will substitute the simple microphone proof for a crystal test that requires a hard-to-find crystal instead.

Why?

Is it because the simple microphone method he posted proves him wrong about sounds heard on a microphone from buried metals?

Does a graph showing the phase shift measured in his FM receiver prove there is no phase shift, but an audio wave form change instead?

Is this the reason Esteban wants to switch to a new crystal gadget to measure electronic signals instead of acoustic -- because the information he posted was just plain wrong?

Are we being fed misinformation from Esteban? :nono:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Astrodetect]

Thanks Esteban, I hope you will write a book soon with all your experiments.
So i want to ask the skeptics again,what causes an off-resonance metal detector to signal when it is in the vicinity and range of a buried metal but not near the ground?
Thanks

[Fred]

Thanks Esteban, I hope you will write a book soon with all your experiments.
So i want to ask the skeptics again,what causes an off-resonance metal detector to signal when it is in the vicinity and range of a buried metal but not near the ground?
Thanks
Magic of course

[Theseus]

...what causes an off-resonance metal detector to signal when it is in the vicinity and range of a buried metal but not near the ground?

Not what you think. :)

[WM6]

So i want to ask the skeptics again,what causes an off-resonance metal detector to signal when it is in the vicinity and range of a buried metal but not near the ground?



This will be deeply explained in Estebans ground-breaking new book. Please be patient!

[Esteban]

This is what i told you, you must progress: understand and explain what is is cause.
If you cant then the glory will be for others, but maybe there will be no glory at all because there is nothing to explain.

I like you old schematics but they explain nothing.


BTW ,what do you need glory for ? And if you tell nothing , do you think you will have glory?

Old schematics? Maybe old things can show you some relations.

Extremely wrong! Not need glory! Maybe others...

[Esteban]

I have not made any comments challenging whether you have detected metals or used IR LEDs.

My challenge to you is to show real proof that the phase shifts in your FM receiver when you shine your IR LED in the direction of buried treasure. Real proof comes in the form of graphs that are charted by electronic equipment that measure phase shifts. I doubt there is any phase shift. But I may be wrong, so show me.

Everyone knows molecules of all physical material vibrate, but the article you posted shows they generate a characteristic vibration that can be detected as an acoustic sound that you can hear in a microphone when you shine chopped IR light on the target material. This is what you are said is exactly as what you did 20 years ago with IR and measured as phase shift with an FM receiver.
So show us some proof buried metal begins vibrating to make a sound when you shine your IR LED on the dirt above it. This is simple to do. Put your sample metal in a glass jar with a microphone attached to listen inside and bury it with 8 cm of dirt on top of it. Then record the sounds that come when you shine the IR led at the dirt. No crystal will prove this, It is an acoustic sound that you can hear and record with a microphone placed with the sample metal. I already know the IR LED will not cause it to make a detectable sound unless you remove the dirt from the top of the metal to let the IR shine on it. So show us how we can hear the microphone sound that comes when the IR light is shined on the dirt as you claimed. And show us a chart of the phase shift you measured in the FM signal.

You have asserted both of these things in your posts above, to leave the impression that the IR LED you used over 10 years ago is causing an increase in the acoustic vibration of buried metals which cause a phase shift that you hear on your FM receiver. I think you are publishing false information. It is simple as that. I believe you don't know what the changes in the received RF signal on your FM radio at the time when you shine an IR LED over a buried target metal. Nor do I think buried metal begins to vibrate due to an IR LED shining on dirt above it as described in your post. I am anxious to see these two things. If the sound is changing on your FM receiver, I think you heard a change of wave-shape which is commonly referred to as "voice" or "envelope" in audio terms. This is not caused by RF phase shift. And not caused by acoustic vibrations of a buried metal target. Prove me wrong!

I say you are posting misinformation to make people to believe shining an IR LED on the dirt will cause buried metals begin to vibrate and make an acoustic sound. I believe it is simply not true. It doesn't work for buried metals and an IR LED. The metals must have the IR light shining on them in order to detect the acoustic vibrations as shown in your diagram.

Now you are saying you will build a crystal device that will identify different metals. This also does not prove your IR LEDs are causing the buried metals to begin making acoustic sounds. I believe it is another attempt to avoid doing the simple test to see if a microphone hears the acoustic sounds or not when you shine your LEDs, or to show the phase shift image of the signal you receive on your FM receiver.

The fact is you posted misinformation, and you are now using every technique you can think of to avoid backing up what you said about FM phase shift and acoustic vibrations beginning when you shine IR led in the dirt above metals. Should we begin to speculate as you do, and conclude you already know there is no acoustic sound that can be heard with a microphone from buried metals? Should we conclude you won't perform the simple tests because you know it will prove you wrong about the diagram you posted as being the same as what you did?

I will just take your RF phase shift and acoustic assertions to be speculation that is false, and you are unwilling to prove to be the same as shown in your diagram.

Best wishes,
J_P

False information? What for? I think is a kind of phase shift, and think is a distortion of audio in the system. I post the image as a reference, is not the same, but the both refers audio. At the end, all is audio here. Over 10 years? 20 years!!!

Xtal. is other experiment, maybe 5 years ago. Some vibration must be exist in matter, and seems more remarcable when metal is buried for long time. The Xtal. is based in oscillator. The signal by the buried metal affects the Xtal.-oscillator system and voilÃ*! This is very simple! So, the phenomenon is very complex, and this make possible 1,000 kinds of techniques and sensors. Incredivel!: What is less known is what gives more possibilities. You supported me one day and another day you says I'm lying. :angry: Will see... will see...

[Esteban]

I've read his "wild" claims and have come to the same conclusions as you voiced above.

Past experiences indicate there will be no proof coming; just a continuance of the wild assertions and misinformation.

Apparently, some get an ego boost from posting misinformation and sparse incomplete details to a pseudo locating system or device they want others to believe works for them, and them alone.

I guess.... whatever trips your trigger. :D

:lol: :razz:

Lo poco que yo puedo mostrarle es demasiado!

[J_Player]

Ok lets get things straight here. Esteban has posted a very large quantity of data that he obtained with his research all these years. We are very grateful for this wealth of information from you Esteban.Thanks you very much.
Now about the radio, we all know that the FM radio has a demodulator for FM and this is the best circuit to demodulate the frequency differences in a modulated signal, either RF or IR or US. Now, on the other hand he is insisting that the frequency shifts when you are in the vicinity of a long time buried metal. So why dont you focus on this and build some circuits and test them to see for yourself???

You are asking why we don't build an FM demodulator to see if we can find a phase shift from an IR LED, and use this demodulator to prove whether Esteban received a phase shift in the signal he received in his FM broadcast receiver. An FM demodulator is a good circuit to use for demodulating a variation in frequency in a signal. In an FM broadcast receiver the demodulator is demodulating RF signals in the 100 MHZ region. Not IR light signals. Furthermore, an FM demodulator demodulates fluctuations in frequency, not phase shifts. If we were to build a circuit that demodulates IR light as you suggest, then we would not be testing to see whether Esteban's FM broadcast receiver RF is picking up a phase shift in the 100 MHZ RF region, as he claims. We would be testing to see if the frequency of changes in the circuitry of a 400 HZ square wave that interrupts power to an IR LED.

This sounds like another attempt to avoid the real proof of demonstrating whether Esteban has published misinformation or not. It is not necessary to build a demodulator circuit to test Esteban's claims. He made only two claims that he refuses to make a simple test to prove:

1. He detected the phase shift
2. The acoustic microphone detecting the metal vibrating under a chopped IR light source he posted is exactly the same as what he did more than 20 years ago with his FM radio

Why should any skeptic build a special 400 hz demodulator circuit when it does not test whether these claims are true? Isn't the real test to simply shine a 400 Hz pulsed IR led over the place on the ground where there is buried metal and check the signal received at an FM broadcast receiver to see if there is a phase shift in either the RF or AF section? Isn't that the real test to see if there is a phase shift as Esteban claims he heard from his pocket radio receiver?

And to check if shining an IR LED causes an acoustic vibration that can be heard with a microphone, wouldn't we put a piece of metal in a clear container that has a microphone in it, then cover it with dirt so it is buried while we shine the IR LED above the buried target to see if we hear a sound from the microphone through an audio amp?

The reason why most skeptics here do not make these tests is because no skeptic has ever been able to build a circuit that Esteban claims works, due to the fact he keeps his circuits secret. He will not tell the component values and detail needed to make an exact copy of his IR detector so another independent tester can build it and test it to see if it works as he claims or not.

In the only exception I can think of where Esteban gave a complete circuit, the people who built it found that it does not work. Esteban continues to insist the schematic he posted to build the "Zahori" long range detector works after people who built it say is does not work. Even non-skeptics say it does not work, because a secret missing circuit section must be added before it can be made to work. Even after the repeated failure reports from those who built the Zahori, Esteban told us we were wrong, and it works without modifications. Based on our experience with Esteban's Zahori claims, I believe he would tell us any failed attempts to duplicate his observations of a phase shift, or to hear buried metal vibrating when sweeping an IR LED over the dirt are wrong because it works just fine for him, just like he claims the Zahori detector works fine for him. -- Even when we built it and found it does not.

But, you know all this very well.

You come here asking people to build circuits that do not prove whether we are getting more misinformation from Esteban...
for what purpose?

Aren't you already convinced there is a phase shift based on Esteban's claim that he refuses to prove?
Aren't you already convinced an IR swept over the ground where metal is buried will cause it to vibrate to make a sound you can hear with a microphone at the metal?

Why do you want skeptics to attempt to build a circuit that does not prove these claims are true?
Is it your intent use the false test to help spread misinformation?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Exactly.
Esteban avoids showing the simple proof in his diagram by putting a microphone to a sample buried in dirt.
Then he says he will substitute the simple microphone proof for a crystal test that requires a hard-to-find crystal instead.

Why?

Is it because the simple microphone method he posted proves him wrong about sounds heard on a microphone from buried metals?

Does a graph showing the phase shift measured in his FM receiver prove there is no phase shift, but an audio wave form change instead?

Is this the reason Esteban wants to switch to a new crystal gadget to measure electronic signals instead of acoustic -- because the information he posted was just plain wrong?

Are we being fed misinformation from Esteban? :nono:

Best wishes,
J_P

Time ago I refer in some part about Xtal. experiment. Puede que sea mejor escribirles en español, no estoy mezclando las cosas. Solo que la materia debe vibrar (sÃ*, vibra!) y hay métodos como infrarrojo y otros que pueden ser usados. La ventaja del infrarrojo es que es un transmisor y va lejos. Al mismo tiempo, el "fenómeno" "cabalga" o "viaja" en el rayo de luz y el cambio en el receptor ocurre. Todo es tan simple. Pero sólo tengo mis palabras para explicarles. Si hubiera tenido un doctorado no habrÃ*a llegado a esto porque el escepticismo me impedirÃ*a. Skepticism does not permit me. Do you see? Lo ve? Yo también soy escéptico, pero no respecto a lo que hago.

[Esteban]

Magic of course

Also the round of the Earth was magic for long time, but not for a few... :razz:

[Esteban]

...what causes an off-resonance metal detector to signal when it is in the vicinity and range of a buried metal but not near the ground?

Not what you think. :)

More what you think, but supported by radio receiver, 2 detectors in one!

[Esteban]

You are asking why we don't build an FM demodulator to see if we can find a phase shift from an IR LED, and use this demodulator to prove whether Esteban received a phase shift in the signal he received in his FM broadcast receiver. An FM demodulator is a good circuit to use for demodulating a variation in frequency in a signal. In an FM broadcast receiver the demodulator is demodulating RF signals in the 100 MHZ region. Not IR light signals. Furthermore, an FM demodulator demodulates fluctuations in frequency, not phase shifts. If we were to build a circuit that demodulates IR light as you suggest, then we would not be testing to see whether Esteban's FM broadcast receiver RF is picking up a phase shift in the 100 MHZ RF region, as he claims. We would be testing to see if the frequency of changes in the circuitry of a 400 HZ square wave that interrupts power to an IR LED.

This sounds like another attempt to avoid the real proof of demonstrating whether Esteban has published misinformation or not. It is not necessary to build a demodulator circuit to test Esteban's claims. He made only two claims that he refuses to make a simple test to prove:

1. He detected the phase shift
2. The acoustic microphone detecting the metal vibrating under a chopped IR light source he posted is exactly the same as what he did more than 20 years ago with his FM radio

Why should any skeptic build a special 400 hz demodulator circuit when it does not test whether these claims are true? Isn't the real test to simply shine a 400 Hz pulsed IR led over the place on the ground where there is buried metal and check the signal received at an FM broadcast receiver to see if there is a phase shift in either the RF or AF section? Isn't that the real test to see if there is a phase shift as Esteban claims he heard from his pocket radio receiver?

And to check if shining an IR LED causes an acoustic vibration that can be heard with a microphone, wouldn't we put a piece of metal in a clear container that has a microphone in it, then cover it with dirt so it is buried while we shine the IR LED above the buried target to see if we hear a sound from the microphone through an audio amp?

The reason why most skeptics here do not make these tests is because no skeptic has ever been able to build a circuit that Esteban claims works, due to the fact he keeps his circuits secret. He will not tell the component values and detail needed to make an exact copy of his IR detector so another independent tester can build it and test it to see if it works as he claims or not. In the only case I can think of where Esteban gave a complete circuit, everyone who built it found that it does not work.

Esteban continues to insist the schematic he posted to build the "Zahori" long range detector works after everyone who built it says is does not work. Even non-skeptics say it does not work, because some missing circuit sections must be added before it can be made to work. So Esteban has established himself as a person who distributes misinformation about how LRLs work as well as expecting people to believe him without allowing others to duplicate his test apparatus to see for themselves whether it works or not. And based on our experience of the one exception when we did build the LRL design he posted, I believe he would tell us all of our failed attempts to duplicate his observations of a phase shift or hear buried metal vibrating from sweeping an IR LED over it are wrong because it works just fine for him, just like he claims the Zahori detector works just fine for him. Even when we built it and found it does not.

But, you know all this very well. You come here asking people to build circuits that do not prove whether we are getting more misinformation from Esteban... for what purpose? Aren't you already convinced there is a phase shift based on Esteban's claim that he refuses to prove? Aren't you already convinced an IR swept over the ground where metal is buried will cause it to vibrate to make a sound you can hear with a microphone at the metal?

Why do you want skeptics to attempt to build a circuit that does not prove these claims are true? Is it your intent use the false test to help spread misinformation?

Best wishes,
J_P

Wasting much "ink". Regarding Zahori, the people build not under my sugerences, many people uses the keys, potentiometers, etc., and this causes confusions. The problem is that many argue unnecessarily and do not work. I don't use microphone, but I can use in other system, no for infrared. Many people build, for example, the Delta Pulse, the Tesoro, etc., and doesn't work for them! If work, work very bad! I can't make miracles, or yes? :lol: Misinformation: I never said that the IR make vibrate the buried item (but can be possible). I said that the buried items vibrates in specific signatures (maybe very constant or not, remember that alloys can be different than pure metal).

[J_Player]

Wasting much "ink". Regarding Zahori, the people build not under my sugerences, many people uses the keys, potentiometers, etc., and this causes confusions. The problem is that many argue unnecessarily and do not work. I don't use microphone, but I can use in other system, no for infrared. Many people build, for example, the Delta Pulse, the Tesoro, etc., and doesn't work for them! If work, work very bad! I can't make miracles, or yes? :lol: Misinformation: I never said that the IR make vibrate the buried item (but can be possible). I said that the buried items vibrates in specific signatures (maybe very constant or not, remember that alloys can be different than pure metal).Hi Esteban,
What you claimed in this thread has nothing to do with the Zahori, other than there are secret circuits involved.

The claims you make here are:
1.You detected the phase shift
2. The acoustic microphone detecting metal vibrating under a chopped IR light source is exactly the same as what you did more than 20 years ago with an FM radio

You are making false claims. They are simple to prove.
All you need is a microphone and an audio amp. But you refuse to show proof.
You expect us to accept substitute tests that do not prove whether your claims are true.

You were wrong, and you posted misinformation. Simple as that.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Hi Esteban,
What you claimed in this thread has nothing to do with the Zahori, other than there are secret circuits involved.

The claims you make here are:
1.You detected the phase shift
2. The acoustic microphone detecting metal vibrating under a chopped IR light source is exactly the same as what you did more than 20 years ago with an FM radio

You are making false claims. They are simple to prove.
All you need is a microphone and an audio amp. But you refuse to show proof.
You expect us to accept substitute tests that do not prove whether your claims are true.

You were wrong, and you posted misinformation. Simple as that.

Best wishes,
J_P

Because you name Zahori...:

"In the only exception I can think of where Esteban gave a complete circuit, the people who built it found that it does not work. Esteban continues to insist the schematic he posted to build the "Zahori" long range detector works after people who built it say is does not work. Even non-skeptics say it does not work, because a secret missing circuit section must be added before it can be made to work. Even after the repeated failure reports from those who built the Zahori, Esteban told us we were wrong, and it works without modifications."

The both are spectroscopy, one by microphone and in my system via changes in the audio of the receiver. But the both is via the incisive IR light. My misinformation is a very valuable info. EXTREMELY! I asure you!

[J_Player]

...The both are spectroscopy, one by microphone and in my system via changes in the audio of the receiver. But the both is via the incisive IR light. My misinformation is a very valuable info. EXTREMELY! I asure you!Then why can't you prove this is true with a microphone?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Then why can't you prove this is true with a microphone?

Best wishes,
J_P

The writer of the scientific paper must prove it. I refer my experiments. I'll re-starts it, because in the past I use simple methods, for example, don't use variable duty cycle for the IR led. Also today I have IR leds with incorporated lenses wich light travel 100 m or more.

[J_Player]

The writer of the scientific paper must prove it. I refer my experiments. I'll re-starts it, because in the past I use simple methods, for example, don't use variable duty cycle for the IR led. Also today I have IR leds with incorporated lenses wich light travel 100 m or more.What!!!?

You are trying to switch the test again?

You claimed "Exactly as I made with a FM radio since more than 20 years ago!"
...without using 100m LEDS or variable duty cycle circuits!

Isn't it possible there are no sounds to be heard from a microphone when you use the simple IR LED you claimed causes acoustic vibration sounds like your diagram shows?


Sweeping the IR LED you used does not cause buried metal to vibrate to make an audio sound in a microphone.
Acoustic vibration cannot not heard from a microphone when done "Exactly as you made"
The microphone sound can only be heard when you shine a chopped IR light onto the target...
not when the target is buried where the IR radiation cannot reach it.

I think you were wrong.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Astrodetect]

Hi Jplayer and others
I am in no way trying to give out misinformation to anybody,but I highly respect Esteban and his experiences in LR metal detection. As I understand it we do not know many things that he does because we have not experimented with these systems.
But if you attack Esteban with accusations instead of giving respect for his help here, then why should he give out information??????
Esteban keep up the good work...

[J_Player]

Hi Jplayer and others
I am in no way trying to give out misinformation to anybody,but I highly respect Esteban and his experiences in LR metal detection. As I understand it we do not know many things that he does because we have not experimented with these systems.
But if you attack Esteban with accusations instead of giving respect for his help here, then why should he give out information??????
Esteban keep up the good work...Hi Astrodetect,

I also consider Esteban to be a great experimenter and innovator with experimental methods to locate metals. He deserves all the respect that comes with his years of experience and dedication to these studies.

My accusations are not intended to show disrespect, but to point out that he is using flawed logic to arrive at conclusions based on speculative thoughts rather than data that can be proven to be true. And he is publishing his speculations as if they were facts. There are no facts to support the two claims he made, and there will not be any facts until the speculations are verified to be true or not. If we look into the facts concerning metals vibrating under a chopped IR source, we find that Alaxender Graham Bell discovered thin metal disks emit a sound you can hear when place under sunlight that is interrupted rapidly, and this discovery was later developed into IR and UV PAS methods we see today. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoacoustic_spectroscopy

Sure, I would wonder if PAS is related to what Esteban observed on his FM receiver, until I realized the principle is not the same when the path of the light is blocked. Then I would look for other reasons why the sound is changing in the FM receiver.

But when we see a post stating "Exactly as I made with a FM radio since more than 20 years ago!", it causes people to learn false data in the Geotech forums. Many readers visit this forum to learn the best of knowledge from experts who know what they are talking about, because they don't understand the science behind it, or don't have time to check the sources. Isn't believing false premises the point where a person stops looking at science and starts believing in pseudo-science?

In this case Esteban is wrong. Unless readers have another opinion to read that shows them why they shouldn't believe it, they may even waste time and money on equipment that is claimed to "hear acoustical sounds from buried metal".

Carl was wise when he placed a rule for this forum stating "Be factual. If you make an extraordinary claim, be prepared to get challenged". His purpose was to put some kind of control so people who read his forum will be able to see both sides of any debatable topic. In this case it allows readers to see an alternative to the notion that shining an IR LED on the dirt will make buried metals begin to vibrate and make sounds you can hear.

I have great respect for the years of dedication and experimenting Esteban has done. And I like to read his posts showing his latest experiments. I only point out he is posting his speculations as if they are facts, when they are not. And that this sloppy chain of logic is a sure way to be posting false information.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Also the round of the Earth was magic for long time, but not for a few... :razz:
...Until they where proved to be wrong.

Esteban did you realise that all your experiments are random-beeping devices? Always tuned to the edge of instability.

[Theseus]

...Until they where proved to be wrong.

Esteban did you realise that all your experiments are random-beeping devices? Always tuned to the edge of instability.

I think several of us have made that same point in previous postings.

Any time high sensitivity amplifiers, BFO oscillators or circuits of any kind are tuned to the very edge of instability; and then these same circuits are moved around in various contortions, and in proximity to sought after targets, there will always be resultant subtle changes that will touch off the circuit towards beeping (or not beeping).

Trying to purpose theories of operation or prove ideas from ANY experiment involving these types of circuits is fool-hearty at best, and in general will categorically result in the experimenter merely chasing their tail. In other words, no clear result or conclusion can ever be sustained.

This type of experimentation is really not unlike holding an ordinary dowsing rod at the "ready" position, which is essentially a very precarious balancing routine between reacting to gravity and not reacting to gravity. The slightest little twitch or movement from the operator's hand, and the rod will swing in response to the ideomotor input, and indicate a direction or "lock" in congress with the operator's own intuition, or wish. :D

[Esteban]

What!!!?

You are trying to switch the test again?

You claimed "Exactly as I made with a FM radio since more than 20 years ago!"
...without using 100m LEDS or variable duty cycle circuits!

Isn't it possible there are no sounds to be heard from a microphone when you use the simple IR LED you claimed causes acoustic vibration sounds like your diagram shows?


Sweeping the IR LED you used does not cause buried metal to vibrate to make an audio sound in a microphone.
Acoustic vibration cannot not heard from a microphone when done "Exactly as you made"
The microphone sound can only be heard when you shine a chopped IR light onto the target...
not when the target is buried where the IR radiation cannot reach it.

I think you were wrong.

Best wishes,
J_P

In the past, I don't use duty cycle control, don't use powerfull leds (or leds with lenses). Today I wish to use more complete parafernalia.

And I wish to be more clear, idiom can be a problem: I don't use microphone, but, of course, in the audio (in radio) is the detection. I'm not wrong, sorry to contradict you... Exactly is to use the audio variation for to detect the buried metal. I don't said that I make vibrate the matter with IR (but maybe is possible, don't know). But the IR detect the phenomenon causes by metal buried many years. If you can't found literature about it, I'm a person who post here literature about it... maybe in bad English. Take it or leave.

[J_Player]

In the past, I don't use duty cycle control, don't use powerfull leds (or leds with lenses). Today I wish to use more complete parafernalia.

And I wish to be more clear, idiom can be a problem: I don't use microphone, but, of course, in the audio (in radio) is the detection. I'm not wrong, sorry to contradict you...What you posted here was wrong.
You posted that the IR LED and FM receiver you used more than 20 years ago is exactly the same as the acoustic microphone listening to sounds coming from a metal target vibrating. Your followup posts confirmed you were referring to your conclusion that the buried metal is vibrating because of the IR LED you were shining at the dirt where the metal was buried.

Of course you want to use different equipment than you said was exactly the same. If you use exactly the same equipment, it will prove there is no sound coming from a microphone placed at the buried metal! You cannot prove the buried metal is vibrating to make an acoustic sound with an FM broadcast receiver. You need a microphone to prove it is vibrating. You know that, but now you are trying to change the test so there will be no evidence seen that proves you were wrong!

You also said there was a phase shift. There was not! You cannot prove that by changing to different equipment. Only with the equipment you said was exactly the same more than 20 years ago. Are you looking for a chance to build a circuit that produces phase shift hidden in your new design?

You cannot prove it exactly as you did more than 20 years ago because it is not true. You were wrong. Simple as that.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

What you posted here was wrong.
You posted that the IR LED and FM receiver you used more than 20 years ago is exactly the same as the acoustic microphone listening to sounds coming from a metal target vibrating.

Of course you want to use different equipment than you said was exactly the same. If you use exactly the same equipment, it will prove there is no sound coming from a microphone placed at the buried metal!

You also said there was a phase shift. There was not! You cannot prove that by changing to different equipment. Only with the equipment you said was exactly the same more than 20 years ago. Are you looking for a chance to build a circuit that produces phase shift hidden in your new design?

You cannot prove it exactly as you did more than 20 years ago because it is not true. You were wrong. Simple as that.

Best wishes,
J_P

OK, I'm wrong... but I obtain very good results... :lol:

[J_Player]

OK, I'm wrong... but I obtain very good results... :lol:Yes,
The results you reported are very good!

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

...Until they where proved to be wrong.

Esteban did you realise that all your experiments are random-beeping devices? Always tuned to the edge of instability.

Do you see the video with red absorptive pistol in action? Do you see random, even if I put on soil or move violently...? With dedication and the use of other system I achieve great stability with sensibility.

[Theseus]

....But the IR detect the phenomenon causes by metal buried many years.....

Now you are back to claiming the IR (beam?) is detecting the phenomenon.

Wouldn't it be prudent to accurately identify and define this all encompassing and wonderful phenomenon; BEFORE you go about building detectors and receivers and reporting glorious results?

Without a more clear understanding of the phenomenon, you and the ones you are attempting to entice to follow in your footsteps, are destined to continually chase an illusion without any hope of reaching a clear conclusion or collaboration from your peers. What a waste of time (and I suppose money).

[Qiaozhi]

I don't think Esteban is claiming that the IR beam excites the soil in any way. From his description I think he believes the beam acts like a probe, and the PHENOMENON somehow modulates the beam, transporting the signal back to the detector. The idea appears to be similar to a BFO, but in the infra-red.

Whether this represents a viable method for treasure hunting is another question, but that seems to be the theory.

[J_Player]

I don't think Esteban is claiming that the IR beam excites the soil in any way. From his description I think he believes the beam acts like a probe, and the PHENOMENON somehow modulates the beam, transporting the signal back to the detector. The idea appears to be similar to a BFO, but in the infra-red.

Whether this represents a viable method for treasure hunting is another question, but that seems to be the theory.Hi Qiaozhi,
That's an interesting concept. How does the FM broadcast receiver fit into the IR beam modulation?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Now you are back to claiming the IR (beam?) is detecting the phenomenon.

Wouldn't it be prudent to accurately identify and define this all encompassing and wonderful phenomenon; BEFORE you go about building detectors and receivers and reporting glorious results?

Without a more clear understanding of the phenomenon, you and the ones you are attempting to entice to follow in your footsteps, are destined to continually chase an illusion without any hope of reaching a clear conclusion or collaboration from your peers. What a waste of time (and I suppose money).

Is not a new "claim". Years ago I post about that the IR detect the "phenomenon" created by bronze, copper, gold, silver, nickel coins and alloys of these. A small bullet air rifle 5.5 mm is only detectable at short range and with few beeps. I don't waste money in it. A Chinese radio here cost US$ 2 and other thinks the same. I waste some time and money, but obtain the results even if I don't know the real causes of the "phenomenon". Is not an illusion, is a fact as the light of the Sun. Why glorious results? I learn it of other man, so the "glory" is for him, not for me. Just I report experiments done... Everybody waste a X quantity of money in experiments. For me is not a waste of time and money.

[Esteban]

I don't think Esteban is claiming that the IR beam excites the soil in any way. From his description I think he believes the beam acts like a probe, and the PHENOMENON somehow modulates the beam, transporting the signal back to the detector. The idea appears to be similar to a BFO, but in the infra-red.

Whether this represents a viable method for treasure hunting is another question, but that seems to be the theory.

Yes, is a TX and RX. And maybe acts as a BFO too.

[Theseus]

Is not a new "claim". Years ago I post about that the IR detect the "phenomenon" created by bronze, copper, gold, silver, nickel coins and alloys of these. A small bullet air rifle 5.5 mm is only detectable at short range and with few beeps. I don't waste money in it. A Chinese radio here cost US$ 2 and other thinks the same. I waste some time and money, but obtain the results even if I don't know the real causes of the "phenomenon". Is not an illusion, is a fact as the light of the Sun. Why glorious results? I learn it of other man, so the "glory" is for him, not for me. Just I report experiments done... Everybody waste a X quantity of money in experiments. For me is not a waste of time and money.

Me thinks you missed the point!


It does not matter if you waste $2 or $20,000 on experiments and equipment. If you have not identified the parameters and characteristics of your phenomenon, then any results you might report are of no real use or importance to anyone but yourself.

If in fact your phenomenon :rolleyes: could be experienced by more than just yourself (in validated experiments), would it not have a better chance of being developed into a viable technology?

What exactly are your reasons for posting claimed results, with devices and contraptions that only you can boast results from? :rolleyes:

[hung]

Is not a new "claim". Years ago I post about that the IR detect the "phenomenon" created by bronze, copper, gold, silver, nickel coins and alloys of these. A small bullet air rifle 5.5 mm is only detectable at short range and with few beeps. I don't waste money in it. A Chinese radio here cost US$ 2 and other thinks the same. I waste some time and money, but obtain the results even if I don't know the real causes of the "phenomenon". Is not an illusion, is a fact as the light of the Sun. Why glorious results? I learn it of other man, so the "glory" is for him, not for me. Just I report experiments done... Everybody waste a X quantity of money in experiments. For me is not a waste of time and money.

Hey Esteban, your song and dance teasing tactic driving the mambo boys here crazy into working LRL desperation is fascinating...
I do admire your patience.


And since we are all in this same 'signal line':D ... Hey, I would like to wish you, the mambo boys, and all here at the Remote Sensing forum a Merry, wonderful Xmas and naturally a great new year.

May peace guide men, may fraternity be among us not only this time of year but along our whole lives and may we don't forget that we are in this planet to help our brothers, feed the poor and confort the best we can the ones who suffer.

Merry Xmas to you and everybody.:cheers:
PS. Hope the toroid get to your address before new year's time.

[J_Player]

Me thinks you missed the point

It does not matter if you waste $2 or $20,000 on experiments and equipment. If you have not identified the parameters and characteristics of your phenomenon, then any results you might report are of no real use or importance to anyone but yourself.
If in fact your phenomenon :rolleyes: could be experienced by more than just yourself (in validated experiments), would it not have a better chance of being developed into a viable technology?

What exactly are your reasons for posting claimed results, with devices and contraptions that only you can boast results from? :rolleyes:Hi Theseus,

According to Esteban we have missed his point, not the other way around.

To start with, Esteban already stated his reason for posting his claimed results: "Just I wish to explain that many things made of other in the past, today is "discovered", this is, re-discovered with implementation of modern equipment".

He is referring, of course to how his method of hearing a change in the sound of an FM radio when he shined his IR LED beam at the dirt is the same as the IR PAS method to hear metals vibrate with a microphone he posted . ...Only he used an FM pocket radio to hear the metal vibrate instead of a microphone.

Did Esteban get it right?
Is this a case where Esteban found a new way to implement the PAS principle?

Esteban never demonsrated he found an alternate method to detect vibrating metals. This is only a speculative conclusion he states as being a fact instead of a speculation. Same as he speculates it is phase shift he sensed rather than checking to see if it is a fact. Let's look at what he observed, not what he speculated:
His observation was "the sound changed in the FM receiver" when he scanned his IR beam over an area where metal is buried a long time.

How does this demonstrate the metal is making mechanical vibrations, to allow him to hear it vibrate on an FM receiver? I think If he is hearing a change in the sound on an FM radio, the cause lies elsewhere... not from the metal beginning to vibrate when he shines the IR LED its direction. Shining an IR LED at the dirt above buried metal does not cause it to make audible mechanical vibrations that create a phase shift to the signal received on an FM radio. If this were truly an implementation of the PAS effect, then anyone could shine a 400 hz square wave powered IR LED over a buried coin and microphone to hear it vibrating.

So we see the concept Esteban posts is not correct. He did not discover the PAS principles he posted, using an FM radio instead of a microphone 20 years ago. He only speculates he rediscovered it with his FM radio, which can be shown to be an erroneous speculation by using an IR LED and a microphone to check a buried coin.


But your question is about the use and importance of his experiments. Esteban says he is not looking for glory: "Just I wish to explain that many things made of other in the past, today is "discovered", this is, re-discovered with implementation of modern equipment".

So Esteban's motive is not glory, only to explain that he is re-implementing past technology with modern equipment. It is interesting he does not provide some simple circuitry we can try to hear for ourselves the sound of the buried metal vibrating to make the FM radio sounds change. Since he is not here to harvest glory, then checking these simple devices would not be a concern if nobody could get them to demonstrate the PAS principle working in his detectors.

I guess if nobody is given an opportunity to check to see how this stuff really works, the reports we hear can only serve to direct glory to Esteban from the people who believe is speculations are facts.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Do you see the video with red absorptive pistol in action? Do you see random, even if I put on soil or move violently...? With dedication and the use of other system I achieve great stability with sensibility.

:???::???: what video ? and what was detected ??

[Seden]

C'mon guy's this isn't rocket science that we can't get off our easy chairs and duplicate this simple test. This is what bothers me about this and other threads. Going on and on everyone theorizing whether this circuit or that works without bothering to test it for ourselves and THEN we would have the right to say it doesn't work.:nono:
I will step up to the plate with my 820nm 10mw laser (oh my I'm not using a standard red led-doesn't change anything folks) modulate it with a 400hz square wave and get back to the group.

I too thank Esteban for his patience although I don't know why he bothers with people who refuse to put out the effort to replicate what he presents,I sure wouldn't-screw it.

Randy

[J_Player]

C'mon guy's this isn't rocket science that we can't get off our easy chairs and duplicate this simple test. This is what bothers me about this and other threads. Going on and on everyone theorizing whether this circuit or that works without bothering to test it for ourselves and THEN we would have the right to say it doesn't work.:nono:
I will step up to the plate with my 820nm 10mw laser (oh my I'm not using a standard red led-doesn't change anything folks) modulate it with a 400hz square wave and get back to the group.

I too thank Esteban for his patience although I don't know why he bothers with people who refuse to put out the effort to replicate what he presents,I sure wouldn't-screw it.

RandyHi Seden,
None of us can replicate what Esteban presents, because the IR LED circuit Esteban used is a secret. Any replication we make can be said to be using the wrong IR LED, or wrong pulsing circuit, or wrong configuration if we don't observe the buried metal is vibrating and causing a phase shift as Esteban claims it does. (Remember the Zahori tests where Esteban claims skeptics failed because they did not use the exact same circuit as he used? ...added pot adjustments invalidated it!)

Of course you will be able to show that a chopped IR laser beam directed at the surface of a metal plate causes it to vibrate as is done in ordinary PAS tests. You will be able to prove this with a microphone. I know you won't "screw it". And you will also show what happens when you bury the plate under a few inches of dirt and shine the IR laser at an angle like Esteban claims causes the response.

You will provide good proof to show whether the photoacoustic effect is causing buried metal to vibrate as it does for metal that has chopped IR striking directly on it above the surface. And you will show us any phase shift too, right?

Thank you for taking the time for this testing,
J_P

[Seden]

J_Player,

For now drop the obsession with the photoacoustic effect. Actually yes I will share my results with the group as you have been doing with the RangerTell so to answer your question the reply would be 'Damn straight Skippy!'.

Look J_Player you've been a pretty fair in your comments up until recently. Maybe you're getting burnt out on all this which I don't blame you. If you notice there are large gaps in time when you don't see my posting and this is why. This particular experiment of Estebans requires little effort on either of our parts so I don't mind as I have my own projects that I'm working on as the rest of the group does. I just get so tired of the bantering back and forth of pure theory without anyone bothering to test it for themselves. You are familiar with the old saying about opinions. It reminds me of when I used to work at the Hughes Aircraft Missile research Centre,you'd get these authoritative arrogant know it all's who would love to claim to know better than anyone else and enjoyed correcting their fellow co-worker in front of others-I'm sick of it.

It get's down to put up or shut up in the end-otherwise it's a chasing of the wind for people who have nothing better to do. Yeah it's easy,just keep the soldering iron off and type. This is said in general not to you J_Player as I have nothing against you.

Randy

By the way group, please take note that I sign my first name so please USE it when you reply.

[J_Player]

J_Player,

For now drop the obsession with the photoacoustic effect. Actually yes I will share my results with the group as you have been doing with the RangerTell so to answer your question the reply would be 'Damn straight Skippy!'.

Look J_Player you've been a pretty fair in your comments up until recently. Maybe you're getting burnt out on all this which I don't blame you. If you notice there are large gaps in time when you don't see my posting and this is why. This particular experiment of Estebans requires little effort on either of our parts so I don't mind as I have my own projects that I'm working on as the rest of the group does. I just get so tired of the bantering back and forth of pure theory without anyone bothering to test it for themselves. You are familiar with the old saying about opinions. It reminds me of when I used to work at the Hughes Aircraft Missile research Centre,you'd get these authoritative arrogant know it all's who would love to claim to know better than anyone else and enjoyed correcting their fellow co-worker in front of others-I'm sick of it.

It get's down to put up or shut up in the end-otherwise it's a chasing of the wind for people who have nothing better to do. Yeah it's easy,just keep the soldering iron off and type. This is said in general not to you J_Player as I have nothing against you.

Randy

By the way group, please take note that I sign my first name so please USE it when you reply.Hi Randy,

Why should I drop the question of a photoacoustic effect?
This is my only argument... that there is no photoacoustic effect causing a signal.

I have no argument that Esteban observed a change in the sound on his FM radio, or that it happened in areas where there was buried metals. My point is that it cannot be caused by a photoacoustic effect -- and any assersions to say it is are misinformation.

Conducting tests can be very simple as you say, but not when using the circuitry that Esteban used. We can check his assertions only if he tells us what simple circuits to build to hear the sound for ourselves. Any other substitute tests don't really check his claim: "exactly the same as he did more than 20 years ago". Using different equipment than he used produces tainted tests, as Esteban says the modified Zahori tests did.

If this is so easy to replicate, then it is even easier for Esteban to replicate. He already has the exact equipment that he claims produced the photoacustic responses. He has to build nothing... only to take a microphone to a buried sample and check whether it is making a sound. There is no chance it will be the "built the wrong way".

Hopefully, you don't see this as an unfair request. I have also been involved in testing for years, and I am well aware of the pitfalls of making modifications when testing a simple theory, as well as the pitfalls of publishing speculative thoughts as if they are facts.

I have the highest respect for the experimentation and dedication Esteban has put into metal locating research.
My only argument is with publishing speculations as facts. So let your test determine if the speculation is correct or not about buried metals responding to photoacoustic effects.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Seden]

J_Player,

Ok now I see where you're coming from,fair enough. Well I still would like to lash up a simple circuit to modulate my little laser with the 400hz square wave and see if I notice anything as it's got me interested. If it involved alot of building I wouldn't bother at the moment unless it's well documented so I'm not wasting precious time and effort.

Sounds good and hope you have a great Christmas,

Randy

[J_Player]

J_Player,

Ok now I see where you're coming from,fair enough. Well I still would like to lash up a simple circuit to modulate my little laser with the 400hz square wave and see if I notice anything as it's got me interested. If it involved alot of building I wouldn't bother at the moment unless it's well documented so I'm not wasting precious time and effort.

Sounds good and hope you have a great Christmas,

Randy
Hi Randy,
yes, I would be interested to see what you come up with too. I have never seen anyone do this with a laser. I think a 50% duty cycle works ok, and you probably will get better results if you use a very thin metal foil or shim placed in a jar with a closed top that you can seal a microphone inside. Maybe the disk needs to be big enough to make audible sounds in a range you can hear, or at least the microphone can, not sure. This is also supposed to work with sunlight.... make up a slotted disk and spin it above the target so the shadow of the slots hit the target. Maybe best to put the target inside a light-proof container with a clear top that has the spinning disk above.

For the observations Esteban made, I don't think it was caused by photoacoustic effects of the buried target. But this leads me to wonder what did make a change in the FM radio sound. Maybe something in the air above the buried metal? RF refractions caused by soil conductivity anomalies? Something different?

If we had a circuit to experiment with, maybe we could find out...


Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Me thinks you missed the point!



It does not matter if you waste $2 or $20,000 on experiments and equipment. If you have not identified the parameters and characteristics of your phenomenon, then any results you might report are of no real use or importance to anyone but yourself.

If in fact your phenomenon :rolleyes: could be experienced by more than just yourself (in validated experiments), would it not have a better chance of being developed into a viable technology?

What exactly are your reasons for posting claimed results, with devices and contraptions that only you can boast results from? :rolleyes:

If you can't reproduce the phenomenon, maybe also is diffucult to identify it. But I don't waste time, this is my hobby. Maybe other wasting more time watching TV, for example. :lol:

[Esteban]

Hey Esteban, your song and dance teasing tactic driving the mambo boys here crazy into working LRL desperation is fascinating...
I do admire your patience.


And since we are all in this same 'signal line':D ... Hey, I would like to wish you, the mambo boys, and all here at the Remote Sensing forum a Merry, wonderful Xmas and naturally a great new year.

May peace guide men, may fraternity be among us not only this time of year but along our whole lives and may we don't forget that we are in this planet to help our brothers, feed the poor and confort the best we can the ones who suffer.

Merry Xmas to you and everybody.:cheers:
PS. Hope the toroid get to your address before new year's time.


Merry Xmas to you and all!!!

[WM6]

But I don't waste time, this is my hobby. Maybe other wasting more time watching TV, for example. :lol:



If you only just sit down in the lab it is much like watching TV, but if you go out on the terrain too, then your hobby is much preferable than watching TV.

I wish you a lot of fun with your hobby in the new year.

[Fred]

If you can't reproduce the phenomenon, maybe also is diffucult to identify it. But I don't waste time, this is my hobby. Maybe other wasting more time watching TV, for example. :lol:
I hope your retreat has nothing to do with Hung showing up recently?

Merry Christmas Esteban!

[Esteban]

:???::???: what video ? and what was detected ??

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15939&page=2

[detectoman]

say esteban:
If you can't reproduce the phenomenon, maybe also is diffucult to identify it. But I don't waste time, this is my hobby. Maybe other wasting more time watching TV, for example. :lol:
yes this true, waste middle life of they in look football, and se tiran de los pelos por derrota, and suicide, and kill for these idiot sport arreglado for lucrative directives" juar juar! i prefer major the excentrice of lrls!

[Astrodetect]

I would like to wish ALL forum members here a Merry Christmas and a Happy New year.
Thanks

[Esteban]

say esteban:
If you can't reproduce the phenomenon, maybe also is diffucult to identify it. But I don't waste time, this is my hobby. Maybe other wasting more time watching TV, for example. :lol:
yes this true, waste middle life of they in look football, and se tiran de los pelos por derrota, and suicide, and kill for these idiot sport arreglado for lucrative directives" juar juar! i prefer major the excentrice of lrls!

Yes wasting hours watching football and baseball, I waste the same, but in LRL investigations.

[WM6]

Yes wasting hours watching football and baseball, I waste the same, but in LRL investigations.



They get the heart attack when their team gets GOaL. You're safe from heart attack, because you never get GOLd.

[detectoman]

the gol--d of esteban give he $$, and the gol for phanatics sport give they $$ for pay in the account of electric's comision federal, by see tv and take hemorroides for sit in chair
hups! what bad is my english

[bklein]

The writer of the scientific paper must prove it. I refer my experiments. I'll re-starts it, because in the past I use simple methods, for example, don't use variable duty cycle for the IR led. Also today I have IR leds with incorporated lenses wich light travel 100 m or more.

Hi Esteban,
I have access to a nice HP spectrum analyzer, good to 22GHz, along with a set of near field sniffer probes. Should I be able to IR radiate a gold coin and detect frequency emissions? What frequency range? You are suggesting that these emissions distort the FM receiver, right? Otherwise maybe they just distort your hearing of the receiver... a bionic detector effect.... ;) Anyway, let me know what to try and I'll try to do it when I can.

Barry

[Esteban]

Hi Esteban,
I have access to a nice HP spectrum analyzer, good to 22GHz, along with a set of near field sniffer probes. Should I be able to IR radiate a gold coin and detect frequency emissions? What frequency range? You are suggesting that these emissions distort the FM receiver, right? Otherwise maybe they just distort your hearing of the receiver... a bionic detector effect.... ;) Anyway, let me know what to try and I'll try to do it when I can.

Barry

I manage a simple 555, frequency used is 400 Hz. 50% duty cycle. 2 commons IR leds. Batteries are independent for radio and IR. Consumption of IR are high. Used 10 ohms in series.

Regards

[bklein]

I manage a simple 555, frequency used is 400 Hz. 50% duty cycle. 2 commons IR leds. Batteries are independent for radio and IR. Consumption of IR are high. Used 10 ohms in series.

Regards

Have you tried using something other than a 555? The reason I ask is that the TTL 555 uses a lot of current and typically causes spikes in the power supply. This noise could be what affects your FM receiver even though it may be on a separate supply. Just trying to narrow down to the real scenario here. A CMOS 555 is available and pin compatible. Interested to know if you have tried both.

Is your FM receiver set to a station or just noise? What is the change in sound?

[hung]

Have you tried using something other than a 555? The reason I ask is that the TTL 555 uses a lot of current and typically causes spikes in the power supply. This noise could be what affects your FM receiver even though it may be on a separate supply. Just trying to narrow down to the real scenario here. A CMOS 555 is available and pin compatible. Interested to know if you have tried both.

Is your FM receiver set to a station or just noise? What is the change in sound?

bklein, a CMOS555 is too fragile for this (LRL case). It is prone to burning by thunderlights, bolts and electric spikes. A regular 555 is more robust.

Regards.

[WM6]

A regular 555 is more robust.

.

555 have to be robust as 666 one, because we are compelled to beat by pistol the first in pocket found coin, to push them tell us where the remaining coins are buried.

[bklein]

bklein, a CMOS555 is too fragile for this (LRL case). It is prone to burning by thunderlights, bolts and electric spikes. A regular 555 is more robust.

Regards.

I really would like to know if the type of 555 is a factor here.
If a ttl 555 dies from what you suggest, so would my cellphone and anything else around. I can put a tvs diode across the supply to totally prevent ESD from killing it. But anyway it is cheap. Besides those things would make the day a lousy detecting day anyway because they would obliterate the fields intended to detect.... ;)

Did you really evaluate one vs the other?

[J_Player]

I really would like to know if the type of 555 is a factor here.
If a ttl 555 dies from what you suggest, so would my cellphone and anything else around. I can put a tvs diode across the supply to totally prevent ESD from killing it. But anyway it is cheap. Besides those things would make the day a lousy detecting day anyway because they would obliterate the fields intended to detect.... ;)

Did you really evaluate one vs the other?Hi bklein,
The circuit is a simple square wave oscillator. You could make two of them. One with each type of 555. Then you could see for yourself which works. Personally I don't think it matters. The cmos version has better noise immunity, but I think you will find the same results with each.

Cmos also does not require any special power supply. A plain battery works, and does not matter too much about the exact voltage. If a thunderbolt fries it, then you can unplug the IC and put another in it's socket. They're cheap.

You might also want to stick to the exact circuit Esteban describes. If you add noise-reducing enhancements or a regulated supply, you may find someone tells you you built it wrong. It could turn out that the noise you described is necessary in order to see the circuit response. Your spectrum analyzer will show the small signal variations you are looking for change a lot when you modify the exact circuit that was described.


Best wishes,
J_P

[bklein]

Hi bklein,
The circuit is a simple square wave oscillator. You could make two of them. One with each type of 555. Then you could see for yourself which works. Personally I don't think it matters. The cmos version has better noise immunity, but I think you will find the same results with each.

Cmos also does not require any special power supply. A plain battery works, and does not matter too much about the exact voltage. If a thunderbolt fries it, then you can unplug the IC and put another in it's socket. They're cheap.

You might also want to stick to the exact circuit Esteban describes. If you add noise-reducing enhancements or a regulated supply, you may find someone tells you you built it wrong. It could turn out that the noise you described is necessary in order to see the circuit response. Your spectrum analyzer will show the small signal variations you are looking for change a lot when you modify the exact circuit that was described.


Best wishes,
J_P

Exactly. I have played with 555's for 30 some years I would imagine. I don't want to go to all the trouble and then have someone say - oh you should have used a xxx 5V regulator not a 78L05, or oh not that LED this one, etc.

[Fred]

Exactly. I have played with 555's for 30 some years I would imagine. I don't want to go to all the trouble and then have someone say - oh you should have used a xxx 5V regulator not a 78L05, or oh not that LED this one, etc.
Exactly.
I suppose this is why you never find a complete (real) schematic around here.

[alnamr]

look thes

[Morgan]

look thes


This is primitive BFO,works with one radio,i build this many years ago,it works great,detects one coin underground,not more than 5 cm ;)

[detectoman]

hi, i too build these, but your should put an radio very adecuate to oscilation tx coil, not all can work here, is major an radio very early, what has audio transformer and transformer for conversion, any radio sound here pretty, other no, then need put the tune in an point of dial with sound white, then emit radio reponse, these put detect discriminate, only put an adecuate transistor radio and frecuence due
right tx, right radio, right calibration, wtb,true morgan, this is short depth, may be can convert in lrl, whit complex, esteban implementation
very good sound, strong potente, and clear can emit these stuff
no movement, no ground affected, little comsume, but is all metal

[detectoman]

is major for these project, any radio what other, put preference mini radio old,of pioners, due modern radio base ics, may be not work ok in conjunction, or only emitt distant sound, no good new radios, may be exist any exception