Morgan and Geo's Videos

[Qiaozhi]

Hi

For me no problem to put public this LRL videos.
I not use any kind of magic:)
My mind is free,my presence here is not to deceive the forum members,all the tests show only that PHENOMENON is REAL.

Regards
OK - based on this post - I am placing the videos here for public viewing.
There will be 9 videos in total.
May the debate begin ... :stars:

[Qiaozhi]

Here are the other 4 videos.

[Clondike Clad]

Here are the other 4 videos.
Ok thinks for the video.
BUT what I sew I will keep to my self.:nono:

[Fred]

Are Geo´s movies being released too ?

[hillman]

hi every body in the video of dc2008 i can see that they calibrate the device many times from the sensitive knob can you explane to me how to do it. thanks for the video morgan and geo. regards hillman

[Theseus]

Here are the other 4 videos.

Thanks for your efforts and uploading the videos. We shall see what we shall see. ;)

[Jim]

beyond humorous

[Qiaozhi]

Are Geo´s movies being released too ?
I'm waiting for Geo to email them to me.

[WM6]

Excellent demonstration of "LRL for Dummies"

Well known tricks. Basically used from HAM radio contests, so called Amateur radio direction finding (ARDF), also known as "Fox hunting" (and such "LRL" receiver: ARDF receiver or "Fox Finder").

Such one HAM radio FoxFinder equipped with ferrite rod antenna (as those which we can see on videos of opened Mineoros) you can see on picture down:

http://www.ardf-r2.org/common/oe6gc_80m_receiver.jpg

Ferrite rod antenna antenna uses the magnetic component of the radio signals in this way means that the antenna is directive (you can test this on all MW/LW/SW portable radio by rotating).

LRL trick happens the following way: in a pile of rocks someone hide simple and weak ARDF (or LRL if you wish) transmitter (best broadband to catch different "LRLs"), near to transmitter (underneath the earth) can be buried some gold objects. Since both are in the same direction, will "LRL" already some meters away discover transmitters "gold", and comparative metal detector (Tesoro) discover real gold object in the ground in the usual way. Take video and we have "scientific evidence of working LRL devices" (with addition: for dummies). I hope that testers have a great time at least.

Of course, all written in this post can be argued by valid evidence on the ground, which is not under the control of LRL producers, sellers, promoters or believers.

[Qiaozhi]

Excellent demonstration of "LRL for Dummies"

Well known tricks. Basically used from HAM radio contests, so called Amateur radio direction finding (ARDF), also known as "Fox hunting" (and such "LRL" receiver: ARDF receiver or "Fox Finder").

Such one HAM radio FoxFinder equipped with ferrite rod antenna (as those which we can see on videos of opened Mineoros) you can see on picture down:

http://www.ardf-r2.org/common/oe6gc_80m_receiver.jpg

Ferrite rod antenna antenna uses the magnetic component of the radio signals in this way means that the antenna is directive (you can test this on all MW/LW/SW portable radio by rotating).

LRL trick happens the following way: in a pile of rocks someone hide simple and weak ARDF (or LRL if you wish) transmitter (best broadband to catch different "LRLs"), near to transmitter (underneath the earth) can be buried some gold objects. Since both are in the same direction, will "LRL" already some meters away discover transmitters "gold", and comparative metal detector (Tesoro) discover real gold object in the ground in the usual way. Take video and we have "scientific evidence of working LRL devices" (with addition: for dummies). I hope that testers have a great time at least.

Of course, all written in this post can be argued by valid evidence on the ground, which is not under the control of LRL producers, sellers, promoters or believers.
Of course this is a valid method of "trickery", if that was the intent, and we all need to guard against such devious tactics. However, in this case (unlike a certain other video, that will go unnamed here) both Morgan and Geo are honestly reporting their findings. I am certain of that. But - like all witnesses of any kind of event (like an RTA or a robbery, for example) everyone has a different perception of what happened. Devout believers of LRLs will hail the videos as a success that proves beyond all doubt the PHENOMENON exists ... while skeptics will see something different. Without double-blind testing this will always be the case. You will see what you expect to see.

So whether this is yet another example of a "trick of the mind", or the targets are really being detected from 2 meters away, becomes a matter of personal opinion. At least these videos will provide material for hot debate for some time to come. :cool:

[WM6]

Without double-blind testing this will always be the case.

:cool:

Who is the third person, if Leo and Morgan represent double blind testers?

[Theseus]

The last video, where they were digging the targets(?) was the most interesting to me.

Naturally, a regulation D-B test protocol would have been ideal, but in lieu of that; I guess we will have to be satisfied with this demonstration.

Clearly, the digging and discovery process raised very important questions in my mind:

After unearthing two pieces of junk or scrap metal, then a silver ring was found.

1.) Since there were at least 2 or more pieces of scrap metal in the same area as the ring, was the Pistol detector reacting to the scrap metal, the ring, or all the various metal items in the area?

2.) After the ring was found, no further digging was done. Were there other pieces of scrap metal in that area? Were there other precious metals in the area?

3.) Once all the possible targets (scrap metal, ring, etc) were removed, it would have been interesting to scan the area again with the Pistol detector. Perhaps it was initially reacting to a mineralized or hot rock in that general area, and it was a coincidence that the other metals were found.

-------------------

Nevertheless, I commend those who took the time to create the demonstration and to post the videos here. Thanks :)

[J_Player]

The last video, where they were digging the targets(?) was the most interesting to me.

Naturally, a regulation D-B test protocol would have been ideal, but in lieu of that; I guess we will have to be satisfied with this demonstration.

Clearly, the digging and discovery process raised very important questions in my mind:

After unearthing two pieces of junk or scrap metal, then a silver ring was found.

1.) Since there were at least 2 or more pieces of scrap metal in the same area as the ring, was the Pistol detector reacting to the scrap metal, the ring, or all the various metal items in the area?

2.) After the ring was found, no further digging was done. Were there other pieces of scrap metal in that area? Were there other precious metals in the area?

3.) Once all the possible targets (scrap metal, ring, etc) were removed, it would have been interesting to scan the area again with the Pistol detector. Perhaps it was initially reacting to a mineralized or hot rock in that general area, and it was a coincidence that the other metals were found.

-------------------

Nevertheless, I commend those who took the time to create the demonstration and to post the videos here. Thanks :)Hi Theseus,
I wondered that too. My best guess is they did continue digging the remaining targets, and found only more trash. But they cut off that part of the video in order to keep the file sizes to a minimum for downloading. I remember Morgan saying he needed time to cut out the best segments of video to send from hours of video footage.

This is why I think it is better to be there in person. If you are watching the hunters abandon the search area after finding the ring, you could yell out "Hey... there's more targets there, let's see what else we find." Or if they did dig the rest of the targets, and found them to be trash stuff, then you would be satisfied that the ring was the only good target found at that site, and not guessing with questions from a video.

From what I understand of the pistol detector, it is said to discriminate, and will show strong response to certain classes of targets. This may explain why its response is not the same as the VLF detector. Also, it is said to be poor at pinpointing or detecting anything at close range like a conventional detector can. It seems to me the pistol detector directional properties begin to decay in the same range where a conventional detector begins to pick up a signal.

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

Well known tricks. Basically used from HAM radio contests, so called Amateur radio direction finding (ARDF), also known as "Fox hunting" (and such "LRL" receiver: ARDF receiver or "Fox Finder").

Such one HAM radio FoxFinder equipped with ferrite rod antenna (as those which we can see on videos of opened Mineoros) you can see on picture down:

http://www.ardf-r2.org/common/oe6gc_80m_receiver.jpg

Ferrite rod antenna antenna uses the magnetic component of the radio signals in this way means that the antenna is directive (you can test this on all MW/LW/SW portable radio by rotating).

LRL trick happens the following way: ...Hmmm....
Interesting concept.
Here is a new LRL trick that anybody with a pistol detector can try.
This trick can be used in places where treasure hunting is restricted, and will allow treasure hunters to hunt freely without annoying government agencies interfering with the fun of recovering fabulous treasures. First you must disguise your pistol detector to look like the RDF pistol above. Then you get your friends to do the same with their pistol detectors. Then post a website showing your amateur radio foxhunting group with the names and pictures of all your friends posted, and the big upcoming transmitter hunt to be held in the location where you want to treasure hunt. Of course, you will take a small transmitter to the site and bury it beforehand, but I doubt your pistol detectors will find it, especially when it is turned off. Any government officials will ignore your activities in the hunt site, because they know you are having good clean fun looking for the elusive transmitter. They can see on your web page this is a legitimate hunting activity. Be sure to carry a large burlap sack to conceal any gold statues uncovered. :lol:

Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

Eeehhhmmm! :rolleyes:

Prevaricate...!?
Seems i was stupid enough to say directly what was on my mind! :lol:
But so as i see; all my remarks will be repeated one by one here, slowly and in a pleasant tone! :lol:
I am wandering how come that always, by the rule, someting obstruct our chances to get the final truth!? Always!
Never mind! Who cares!? Me? Nooooooo!

[J_Player]

...Devout believers of LRLs will hail the videos as a success that proves beyond all doubt the PHENOMENON exists ... while skeptics will see something different. Without double-blind testing this will always be the case. You will see what you expect to see...Hi Qiaozhi,
I believe you are correct in your assessment of the opinions we will hear from viewers of Morgan's and Geo's videos. And I also agree that double blind testing would greatly reduce the range of opinions. If you wanted to use double blind testing to remove doubts about whether a phenomenon exists where long time buried metal is, or if you wanted to double blind test a particular device to see if it was able to detect a long-time buried metal object, then my question is this:

How would you structure a double blind test to be performed at a public demonstration event that is held in a public or private expanse of land where we can expect to find metal targets that have been buried a long time, like maybe 20 years or more?

best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Hi Qiaozhi,
I believe you are correct in your assessment of the opinions we will hear from viewers of Morgan's and Geo's videos. And I also agree that double blind testing would greatly reduce the range of opinions. If you wanted to use double blind testing to remove doubts about whether a phenomenon exists where long time buried metal is, or if you wanted to double blind test a particular device to see if it was able to detect a long-time buried metal object, then my question is this:

How would you structure a double blind test to be performed at a public demonstration event that is held in a public or private expanse of land where we can expect to find metal targets that have been buried a long time, like maybe 20 years or more?

best wishes,
J_P
Apparently - or so we are told - the newer LRLs (note that the number of required buttons has now increased from 2 to 4) :rolleyes: are capable of detecting fresh gold. In this case, double-blind testing is possible. While the existing claims were that the gold has to be longtime buried, then double-blind testing is not possible. In addition, any number of excuses could be put forward as to why the tests fail to meet expectations.

With the PD it does not appear that longtime buried gold is a requirement.

[Qiaozhi]

The "debate" of Morgan and Geo's videos does not appear to have been as vigorous as expected. Especially since there has been something like 70 downloads. Surely others must have an opinion? :shrug:

[J_Player]

The "debate" of Morgan and Geo's videos does not appear to have been as vigorous as expected. Especially since there has been something like 70 downloads. Surely others must have an opinion? :shrug:Sure, here are some opinions:
First, these are the best quality LRL videos I have ever seen anywhere. We can see they are visible and taken in good light, they show details of the LRLs being used, and they have a semblance of something better than the average amateur videos we have seen here before. Most important, I don't see evidence of any deliberate attempt to skew what is seen as the performance of the detectors.

Also, I see two forum members who we know well demonstrating what they found. And we know this event was open for all the forum members who wanted to come and see and try out the detectors with their own hands. This gives me the feeling there is no intent to put on a deceptive demonstration.

What does it all mean? It means the detectors beeped when we heard them beeping during the conditions we saw in the videos. Of course, we did not see all conditions from watching a video, only what the lens can capture. This is why I prefer being there live to see more than what is shown on the videos. Some additional things the video did not show is the relative humidity, temperature. time of day, soil conditions, solar flare information, and a lot of other things that don't seem to make much difference to a casual observer.

Knowing Geo and Morgan, and seeing their videos and what they say about them, my opinion is I've seen enough to convince me it is worth going to a live demonstration to see and test it with my own hands. Then I would be able to perform more of my own testing to convince myself that they work or not, and how well they do what is claimed.

As far as the "Phenomenon" existing, I have known it existed before I came to the Geotech forums. But I don't agree with all the descriptions that we hear about it in this forum. My basis for knowing about the "phenomenon" is from some scientific testing performed in locations where there are objects buried a long time, as well as above-ground protruberances that have been established for a long time. But If I was not a believer in the "phenomenon", then nothing I have seen in this forum including these videos would convince me that it exists. I would need to see it live and bring some electronic test equipment to check it out before I would believe it. :cool:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Jarek]

Morgan and Geo great work, I'm glad someone had finally posted some nice videos.
It seems to me that the general public is simply expecting great results from an emerging field. Are the results achieved by regular MD so great? but we should keep in mind that metal detectors have been in use for XXX number of years. They were widely used during WWII and were constantly improved to achieve what have now. But still after so many years, as far as I'm concerned we don't even have a coil that would detect gold only. How many pull tabs and bottle caps we have to pick before we find a ring?
Therefore for me what I saw on those videos was a great achievement. I wish best of luck to all those like: Geo, Morgan, Esteban and others who are in pursuit of discovering new things not yet known to the science.
In the Shintoism (religion of Japan) they say: there is 100% of the world's knowledge, 3% are the things we know that we know (like speaking your own language or using a metal detector:) ), 7% are the things we know that we don't know (how to fly an airplane or perform a surgery) and the rest are things that we don't know that we don't know.

[detectoman]

wawwwwwwww i look the sceptics are most hard to be convinced, why., i cant understand these, the evidence is clear, have very much reality, your need most tries, you major basif in honesty of morgan, i quest myself? j. player can be convinced after personally it try the pd whit owns hands? waw
geo and morgan are confiability, very much kno, of then think them are liers?

jajaj lo que yo veo es que los incredulos son duros a ser convencidos, porque? yo no puedo entender eso, la evidencia es clara, tiene mucho de realidad, ustedes necesitan mas pruebas? mejor basense en la honestidad de morgan, yo me pregunto a mi mismo, j player podra ser convencido? despues de que el personalmente probara la pd con sus propias manos? waw que extrana situacion, geo es confiable morgan es confiable, aun creen que son mentirosos? guauuuuuuuu

[ivconic]

Morgan and Geo great work, I'm glad someone had finally posted some nice videos.
It seems to me that the general public is simply expecting great results from an emerging field. Are the results achieved by regular MD so great? but we should keep in mind that metal detectors have been in use for XXX number of years. They were widely used during WWII and were constantly improved to achieve what have now. But still after so many years, as far as I'm concerned we don't even have a coil that would detect gold only. How many pull tabs and bottle caps we have to pick before we find a ring?
Therefore for me what I saw on those videos was a great achievement. I wish best of luck to all those like: Geo, Morgan, Esteban and others who are in pursuit of discovering new things not yet known to the science.
In the Shintoism (religion of Japan) they say: there is 100% of the world's knowledge, 3% are the things we know that we know (like speaking your own language or using a metal detector:) ), 7% are the things we know that we don't know (how to fly an airplane or perform a surgery) and the rest are things that we don't know that we don't know.

Pretty correct. Tend to agree.

[J_Player]

wawwwwwwww i look the sceptics are most hard to be convinced, why., i cant understand these, the evidence is clear, have very much reality, your need most tries, you major basif in honesty of morgan, i quest myself? j. player can be convinced after personally it try the pd whit owns hands? waw
geo and morgan are confiability, very much kno, of then think them are liersHi D-man,
I don't think Morgan or Geo are liars.

If you recall, Geo did not believe the pistol detector worked after he and many others built clones that did not work. He was never convinced that they work until he went to a demonstration and tested it with his own hands to satisfy himself that it worked. He never called Morgan a liar, same as I never called Morgan a liar. But Geo wanted to see it working himself and test it out before he would believe it was working.

If you are convinced all LRLs work without seeing them perform in your hands, then I am happy for you. Your world is complete in your belief in LRLs. But not all people are disposed to believe without some rigorous testing before they can be convinced. This does not mean they call other people liers who make claims about LRLs. It means only that they would like to see some live demonstrations.

This is the same way I feel. I would like to try it out myself before I can become convinced it works, same as Geo did before he was convinced.

***************
Yo no creo que Morgan o Geo son mentirosos.

Si usted recuerda, Geo no cree que el detector de pistola funcionó después de que él y otros construidos clones que no funcionó. Él nunca estaba convencido de que funcionó hasta que fue a una demostración y probado con sus propias manos para asegurarse de que funcionaba. Geo nunca llamó a Morgan un mentiroso, igual que yo nunca he llamado Morgan un mentiroso. Pero Geo querÃ*a ver que el funcionamiento a sÃ* mismo y probarlo antes de que él iba a creer que estaba funcionando.

Si usted está convencido de todas los LRLs funcion sin verlos actuar en sus manos, entonces estoy feliz por ti. Su mundo es completa en su creencia en LRLs. Pero no todas las personas están dispuestas a creer sin algunas pruebas rigurosas antes de que puedan ser convencidos. Esto no significa que ellos llaman a otras personas emboscadas que hacen afirmaciones sobre LRLs. Sólo significa que les gustarÃ*a ver demostraciones en vivo.

Se trata de la misma manera que me siento. Me gustarÃ*a probarlo yo mismo antes de que pueda ser convencido de que funciona, lo mismo que hizo Geo antes de estaba convencido de que.

Sorry for poor translation...

Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

"...Hi D-man,
I don't think Morgan or Geo are liars.

If you recall, Geo did not believe the pistol detector worked after he and many others built clones that did not work. He was never convinced that they work until he went to a demonstration and tested it with his own hands to satisfy himself that it worked. He never called Morgan a liar, same as I never called Morgan a liar. But Geo wanted to see it working himself and test it out before he would believe it was working.

If you are convinced all LRLs work without seeing them perform in your hands, then I am happy for you. Your world is complete in your belief in LRLs. But not all people are disposed to believe without some rigorous testing before they can be convinced. This does not mean they call other people liers who make claims about LRLs. It means only that they would like to see some live demonstrations.

This is the same way I feel. I would like to try it out myself before I can become convinced it works, same as Geo did before he was convinced..."



It takes usually 10 years FDA to accept some new drug from the moment of its appearance. From the moment of new drug appear in labs, next 10 years, there are multiplied constant testing and analyzing at several institues arround the world. All the aspect are about to be reconsidered hundred times and more. Those institutes are not allowed to corellate between themself. Test and gained results in one institute are not presented to others as long as testing period last (10 years usually and maybe more).
Finally after that given period, all the results and experiences are gathered and analyzed in details by FDA. Than it is decided about drug future - to put it on the general use in practice or not.
This is usuall routine.
So...that's how real science functioning.

Regardless to what good will our friends had and what nice job they wanted to do for all of us here - but sorry; it is far than being enough to establish even a particle of real truth. Not to mention again all the lacks in what was done. So...lot of job is waiting those who wants to put real life in this subject.
Cheers!


P.S.
One of my closest friend worked for Motorola, auto electronic sensors. Now that sold to Continetal. So he worked as ee, sensors designer. We talked many times about process of how new product to "born". Hard, painfull and tough process! Carl also could say something about it (simillar job).
One simple and trivial sensor to be "born" for general use, for market....sheeeeshhh - long process with many obstacles! Why? Simply cose Motorola is "The Motorola" - not some "ivconic" or simillar lost cases! :lol:
So...pull out the conclusions from this!

[J_Player]

It takes usually 10 years FDA to accept some new drug from the moment of its appearance. From the moment of new drug appear in labs, next 10 years, there are multiplied constant testing and analyzing at several institues arround the world. All the aspect are about to be reconsidered hundred times and more. Those institutes are not allowed to corellate between themself. Test and gained results in one institute are not presented to others as long as testing period last (10 years usually and maybe more).
Finally after that given period, all the results and experiences are gathered and analyzed in details by FDA. Than it is decided about drug future - to put it on the general use in practice or not.
This is usuall routine.
So...that's how real science functioning.Hi Ivconic,
Are you teaching how real science and truth works in relation to treasure locating machines?

Ok, for starters, The FDA does not test metal locators. They test food and drugs to be used by consumers in the USA. This is done because it is a multi-billion dollar industry that can effect the health of consumers, and because of some strong political lobbies that require this kind of testing for prescription drugs.

So let's move on to some reality in the metal locating industry. We are mostly recreational treasure hunters who are interested in machines that will help us to locate buried metals. The usual degree of testing outside the factory testing programs involves the consumer making a visit to a metal detector dealer and looking at a number of metal detectors. Then he tries several models on display in a live demonstration where he is able to test the performance and determine which models perform satisfactorily for his purposes. There is no testing agency that requires metal detector manufacturers to submit their products to a 10 year or more test before the detector is certified to be fit for sale to the public.

In the case of Morgan's LRL demonstration, he hosted an event where any member of this forum could try his LRLs the same way you might try a metal detector at the local dealer. If I were to have attended his demonstration, then I would have been able to test all of his LRLs to my satisfaction and convince myself whether they work or not. I would have been able to determine which, if any were performing in a manner that was suitable for my purposes. I would not need more than a day to make these determinations. I would know after a day of testing these LRLs with my own hands whether I thought any of them are performing well enough to warrant my spending money to buy them.

It is not rocket science to hold a detector in your hands and move it around to see if it is finding buried metals. All you need is to adjust the locator, walk across a place where there are some metal things buried in the ground, and dig a hole wherever it signals there is a target. If it succeeds in finding buried metal most of the time, then I will know it has some treasure hunting value. If it does not show me where buried metal is, then I know I don't want to spend any money to buy it. Of course, I would try it in untested locations as well as where known targets are located, just to make sure it is working in the real hunting conditions where I would want to use it. Pretty simple... same as testing any conventional metal detector. No testing agencies needed. Regardless to what good will our friends had and what nice job they wanted to do for all of us here - but sorry; it is far than being enough to establish even a particle of real truth. Not to mention again all the lacks in what was done. So...lot of job is waiting those who wants to put real life in this subject.Particle of real truth?
I believe real truth exists in the mind of the person who perceives it. Regular truth varies from one person to another, so how can "real truth" be the same for all people?
Since when is it required that any testing other than trying a metal locator to see if it works satisfactorily for your purposes should be done? If I were to find a metal detector full of mysterious junk parts inside, that always pointed to the closest buried gold, time and time again, then should I toss it in the trash because it was never tested to somebody's standards to prove it represented "real truth"? Wouldn't I be better to keep using it as long as it pointed to buried gold?

If I actually found such a device, I doubt I would perform any tests on it at all. I would simply go treasure hunting as long as it kept working. The only "real truth" I would care about is the treasure it located every time. If sometime later I discovered it was a fake, I wouldn't care, as long as the gold it found was real.

I don't agree Morgan's demonstration was lacking. But then, I had no expectations that he would include tests that I prescribed must be done without telling him about the needed tests before hand. So I feel happy to see the first open LRL demonstration ever held for the members of this forum. I think his demonstration was more than adequate for anyone who wanted to attend to convince themselves whether the locators worked or not.

Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

:lol:

"...Hi Ivconic,
Are you teaching how real science and truth works in relation to treasure locating machines?

Ok, for starters, The FDA does not test metal locators. ..."

:lol:

You already understand my points very well! Don't play naive!
Story about LRL is much greater and older than this recent PD event.
LRL proponents constantly invokes to rellations between official science and their parallel world.
In my previous post i wanted to point on methods how real science really functioning.
Other words - it is to early to be much enthusiastic.
I've been long enough on this forum to remember enormous efforts in the past involved on this subject.
Drug industry is just an industry. But methods and processes are uniform.
Want something to achieve? Want something to establish? Want something to present to the world? Than obey the usuall routine!
Do on proper way or don't do it at all!
That was my point in previous post.

[J_Player]

:lol:

"...Hi Ivconic,
Are you teaching how real science and truth works in relation to treasure locating machines?

Ok, for starters, The FDA does not test metal locators. ..."

:lol:

You already understand my points very well! Don't play naive!
Story about LRL is much greater and older than this recent PD event.
LRL proponents constantly invokes to rellations between official science and their parallel world.
In my previous post i wanted to point on methods how real science really functioning.
Other words - it is to early to be much enthusiastic.
I've been long enough on this forum to remember enormous efforts in the past involved on this subject.
Drug industry is just an industry. But methods and processes are uniform.
Want something to achieve? Want something to establish? Want something to present to the world? Than obey the usuall routine!
Do on proper way or don't do it at all!
That was my point in previous post.Hi Ivconic,
I think you are wrong. The methods and processes for the drug industry are not the same uniform methods as used for the treasure hunting industry. Otherwise, we would not be seeing the new metal detector models until they are 10 years old.

I also don't agree that there is a "usual routine" or "Proper way" that a metal locator must be tested. I think if a detector works satisfactorily for the person who uses it, then it is good enough.

I doubt your attempt to shift the focus to past LRL stories will work when we are addressing the present demonstration hosted by Morgan. It is obvious to most readers that his event is a big departure from the past "stories" without any firsthand witnesses to see if what they were saying is correct or not. We all know that nobody in the Remote Sensing forum has ever invited all other members of the forum to witness their machines working live. So this event is not the same as previous stories where we were expected to believe whatever stories were told just because the words were posted in the forum.

Sure I understand your points. But I think they are flawed, because they do not pertain to the event Morgan hosted. They pertain to multi-billion dollar government regulated insdustries, and to ominous anecdotal LRL stories told in the past. In other words, I think you are wrong. Further, I think you are intentionally using analogies that you know are not pertinent in order to further your agenda. But this is just what I think, I could be wrong.

Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

Hi Ivconic,
I think you are wrong. The methods and processes for the drug industry are not the same uniform methods as used for the treasure hunting industry. Otherwise, we would not be seeing the new metal detector models until they are 10 years old.

I also don't agree that there is a "usual routine" or "Proper way" that a metal locator must be tested. I think if a detector works satisfactorily for the person who uses it, then it is good enough.

I doubt your attempt to shift the focus to past LRL stories will work when we are addressing the present demonstration hosted by Morgan. It is obvious to most readers that his event is a big departure from the past "stories" without any firsthand witnesses to see if what they are saying is correct or not. We all know that nobody in the Remote Sensing forum has ever invited all other members of the forum to witness thier machines working live. So this event is not the same as previous stories where we were expected to believe whatever stories were told just because the words were posted in the forum.

Sure I understand your points. But I think they are flawed, because they do not pertain to the event Morgan hosted. They pertain to multi-billion dollar government regulated insdustries, and to ominous anecdotal LRL stories told in the past. In other words, I think you are wrong. Further, I think you are intentionally using analogies that you know are not pertinent in order to further your agenda. But this is just what I think, I could be wrong.

Best wishes,
J_P

Eh! We can continue like this forever. But we are smart enough not to. We disagree. Ok with that.
I just want to point you on video (link to video) posted somewhere on these pages, long time ago.
Most probably Hung and Esteban will remember exactly where that link was posted. I just remember that i saw it at the time.
It is video showing Mineoro (some model) testing at some corn field. Several people (i think Dell also was there...or maybe i am wrong, excuse me if i made mistake) are testing Mineoro and dug a huge hole and discovered some neckless or something. So...
Looking that video (without prejudices about persons involved) and looking recent videos....i dont see the differences at all. I dont see why and how recent videos provide more truth and proofs than that video from the past?
What is so better in recent videos?
Why all of the sudden to start being so enthusiastic about recent videos and not to about that old video we have been seen in the past?
That was my point all the time here.
Ok... we disagree in many points. I really dont want to waste my time debating with you on such irrelevant subject (for me) here.
I said what i had to say. I have nothing more to say. It is just my personal opinion.
Cheers!

[J_Player]

i dont see the differences at all. I dont see why and how recent videos provide more truth and proofs than that video from the past?The difference is you and all other forum members were not invited to attend that past event and try the LRLs with your own hands.

Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

Ok, that's true. Correct. But the rest is pretty same generally.

[WM6]

For LRL believers, LRL promoters, LRL sellers, LRL producers and their J_Lawyers "as seen on videos" dummy tricks are "the whole truth and nothing but the truth". Well known, not worth to discuss.

But the truth is for one religion to another only cheap LRL promotional trick. Religion (even shintoism) does not need evidence, for it is sufficient only to believe. LRL promotional tricks (although called "undiscovered science", or because of this) but can be easily demonstrated, even if they are made under the medieval maxim: "cuius regio eius religio".

There is only one answer to all LRL believers, LRL promoters, LRL sellers, LRL producers and their J_Lawyers: come to my "regio" (testing field) and repeat such dummy trics. I am willing to buy 20 gr gold medal with the inscription "LRL WINNER", and buried only 5 cm deep in soil, and if you manage to find it with any of yours LRL crappy toys, medal is yours. That medal is really buried at the end we prove by ordinary Chinese metal detector.

So stop by bla bla loading here and prepare instead yourself on the real controlled test.

[J_Player]

...come to my "regio" (testing field) and repeat such dummy trics...

...So stop by bla bla loading here and prepare instead yourself on the real controlled test.Can you show us photos of your controlled testing facilities?

Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

Morgan and Geo great work, I'm glad someone had finally posted some nice videos.
It seems to me that the general public is simply expecting great results from an emerging field. Are the results achieved by regular MD so great? but we should keep in mind that metal detectors have been in use for XXX number of years. They were widely used during WWII and were constantly improved to achieve what have now. But still after so many years, as far as I'm concerned we don't even have a coil that would detect gold only. How many pull tabs and bottle caps we have to pick before we find a ring?
Therefore for me what I saw on those videos was a great achievement. I wish best of luck to all those like: Geo, Morgan, Esteban and others who are in pursuit of discovering new things not yet known to the science.
In the Shintoism (religion of Japan) they say: there is 100% of the world's knowledge, 3% are the things we know that we know (like speaking your own language or using a metal detector:) ), 7% are the things we know that we don't know (how to fly an airplane or perform a surgery) and the rest are things that we don't know that we don't know.

Very good post and wise comparison.

You will still get to the conclusion (like me years ago), that the 'true wallet miners' are the ordinary concept MD corporations who make thousands and thousands of dollars a year selling old WWII detector concepts for consumers and making them believe there's no choice other than the outdated local induced magnetic field methods.

Just like fossil fuel corporations will inevitably surrender to the evidence of new clean and much more advanced energy options, it's only a matter of time before MD consumers realize the difference between a toy and a tool.

Regards.

[Clondike Clad]

Very good post and wise comparison.

You will still get to the conclusion (like me years ago), that the 'true wallet miners' are the ordinary concept MD corporations who make thousands and thousands of dollars a year selling old WWII detector concepts for consumers and making them believe there's no choice other than the outdated local induced magnetic field methods.

Just like fossil fuel corporations will inevitably surrender to the evidence of new clean and much more advanced energy options, it's only a matter of time before MD consumers realize the difference between a toy and a tool.

Regards.
Why not let the pros test the detectors (UL etc)
Why not arls DB test.
Why not post on youtube etc.
:oh:

[Fred]

Ok, that's true. Correct. But the rest is pretty same generally.

Hi Ivconic,
I don´t know the video you refer to , but one other probable difference is that they have nothing to sell .
This is not propaganda.

I have posted this before, i´m sure you will think about it:this is a possible scenario to explain (reletively) long range detection:

-Long time buried metal creates an anomaly larger than the metal itself (it is a fact, halo effect)
-this anomaly creates a difference in soil resistivity (for ex.)
-This (lower) soil resistivity creates a difference in voltage gradient above it.

Then you measure the voltage gradient (100v/m) above earth surface...
This is not easy nor 100% fiable,plus direction sensitive, thus all the problems found with thos devices.

[Jim]

From the videos, it appears the targets were known. That is no big surprise.

What is a surprise is how violently you have to swing/shake/move the locators about to make them work. Once over the target (within a few inches) they do not work. Just how in the heck do you pinpoint something when it beeps with your arm extended out to the right, but you are walking straight ahead?

The pinpointing skills with the metal detector was so dramatic, it was ridicules. Its over here…no, its over here..no, its way over here.

Good grief folks

[Theseus]

You will still get to the conclusion (like me years ago), that the 'true wallet miners' are the ordinary concept MD corporations who make thousands and thousands of dollars a year selling old WWII detector concepts for consumers and making them believe there's no choice other than the outdated local induced magnetic field methods.

Regards.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Hung, do you come up with these incredibly wrong ideas and notions all by yourself, or is there an outside agency paying you to put them in print here?

Apparently, you've not taken the time to examine or use a modern-day MD in the last 50 years. Maybe if you'd put down that random-beeping contraption, based on a nonsense theory, and do a little homework on the subject, you would become enlightened. :razz: :razz: :razz:

Or... maybe not.

[Theseus]

From the videos, it appears the targets were known. That is no big surprise.

What is a surprise is how violently you have to swing/shake/move the locators about to make them work. Once over the target (within a few inches) they do not work. Just how in the heck do you pinpoint something when it beeps with your arm extended out to the right, but you are walking straight ahead?

The pinpointing skills with the metal detector was so dramatic, it was ridicules. Its over here…no, its over here..no, its way over here.

Good grief folks

Aaaaaa... Hmmmm... you noticed that too.

[ivconic]

Hi Ivconic,
I don´t know the video you refer to , but one other probable difference is that they have nothing to sell .
This is not propaganda.

I have posted this before, i´m sure you will think about it:this is a possible scenario to explain (reletively) long range detection:

-Long time buried metal creates an anomaly larger than the metal itself (it is a fact, halo effect)
-this anomaly creates a difference in soil resistivity (for ex.)
-This (lower) soil resistivity creates a difference in voltage gradient above it.

Then you measure the voltage gradient (100v/m) above earth surface...
This is not easy nor 100% fiable,plus direction sensitive, thus all the problems found with thos devices.

Think twice. Morgan himself probably has nothing to promote and sell. But remember the experiences from videos; Alonso's PD was more accurate and sensitive than Morgan's! :D:lol:
So...indirect way to persuade public that there is "something" behind the bush!
Hung just proclaimed new miracle from Alonso's kitchen :
"... I talked to Mineoro this week and the one thing which might resemble a little miracle from Alonso will come up soon..."

Ok...this could sound as conspiracy theory, which in fact is not. I am sceptic but i am not paranoic (at least not that much) :lol:!

About the rest:

"....-Long time buried metal creates an anomaly larger than the metal itself (it is a fact, halo effect)
-this anomaly creates a difference in soil resistivity (for ex.)
-This (lower) soil resistivity creates a difference in voltage gradient above it.

Then you measure the voltage gradient (100v/m) above earth surface...
This is not easy nor 100% fiable,plus direction sensitive, thus all the problems found with thos devices...."

Good thinking. I agree. Conventional science already made some steps in that direction. Magnetometry, NMR, GPR ...etc..etc..
We are hobbysts here, we deal with "easy" stuff. More advance technology is already available....for certain sum of course - we can not afford! :frown:
But in industry simillar technology is already in use for some time.
Not cheap stuff - way over our league, that's why we dont speak to much about those....

[hung]

What is a surprise is how violently you have to swing/shake/move the locators about to make them work. Good grief folks

Wrong.
That's why I have stated that the images will bring much more confusion than explanations to unexperienced people.

One more time: NO need to swing/shake or move the device at all is required.
A stationary position of the arm will make the device beep. It's not friction of air or something else which makes it react, but the response of the fields around a target . In the video, they sweeped the device for pinpointing when close to target or just because they wished it to. From long range, a stationary position of device will make it beep as well.

[hung]

?apparently you've not taken the time to examine or use a modern-day MD in the last 50 years. Maybe if you'd put down that random-beeping contraption, based on a nonsense theory, and do a little homework on the subject, you would become enlightened. :razz: :razz:

Or... maybe not.

Your 'modern-day' MD still can't tell the difference between a gold coin from a pull tab. And if this last one is degraded, forget it.
The only thing good ordinary MDs did was improving the user health.
User walks miles and gets fit.

[Max]

Wrong.
That's why I have stated that the images will bring much more confusion than explanations to unexperienced people.

One more time: NO need to swing/shake or move the device at all is required.
A stationary position of the arm will make the device beep. It's not friction of air or something else which makes it react, but the response of the fields around a target . In the video, they sweeped the device for pinpointing when close to target or just because they wished it to. From long range, a stationary position of device will make it beep as well.

Dr Hung.... new stuff !??? :lol:

Even Esteban told us that device need to be slowly sweeped right-left/left-right...

What are you talking about ???

Always non sense from you... :D and red hairs...

Kind regards,
Max

[ivconic]

Your 'modern-day' MD still can't tell the difference between a gold coin from a pull tab. And if this last one is degraded, forget it.
The only thing good ordinary MDs did was improving the user health.
User walks miles and gets fit.

Ehhh! Hung! It is not like that! I suggest you to try White's DFX, Minelab Explorer SE and most probably new Spectra (this one i havent seen yet).
Those machines are capable to recognize alloys pretty accurate. I was/am delited with Explorer SE and it's learn mode! Hot stuff!

[Max]

Your 'modern-day' MD still can't tell the difference between a gold coin from a pull tab. And if this last one is degraded, forget it.
The only thing good ordinary MDs did was improving the user health.
User walks miles and gets fit.

Hmmmmm.....

With Mineoro even better... cause you'll find nothing and continue walking... till will arrive in China... :D

Kind regards,
Max

[hung]

Actually, not to be totally negative about MDs, I own a Minelab Excalibur which I use exclusively when I dive for ocean floor work. It's very good and keeps falsing to a minimum.
The day I figure out how to make a waterproof LRL to dive with it, I would certainly retire it.

[WM6]

The only thing good ordinary MDs did was improving the user health.
User walks miles and gets fit.

Right! And this is big weakness of LRLs. By LRL you do not need to walk, because you detect all gold from Long Range Distance from your armchair. What charm of search are those LRL-ing?

[Theseus]

Your 'modern-day' MD still can't tell the difference between a gold coin from a pull tab. And if this last one is degraded, forget it.
The only thing good ordinary MDs did was improving the user health.
User walks miles and gets fit.

Your random beeper can't either. At least a metal detector can eliminate the huge quantities of tin foil and identify scrap magnetic metal in the ground. According to the video I just saw, the random beeper reacts to tin foil, odd bits of scrap metal, probably pop bottle caps and who knows what else.

And, if the wild swinging gyrations are any indication of what is necessary to create beeping sounds... I could imagine there may have been a mercury switch in the box and as a result of the "swinging"; caused a circuit to close that caused the beeping. :D Just another thought....

Incidentally, the video I just saw showed operators walking too. Not once did I see the operator stand stock still point to a spot 30 feet ahead of him and indicate to dig in a designated spot. Of course the arm swinging results in good exercise too, as well as the walking. ;)

[hung]

Ehhh! Hung! It is not like that! I suggest you to try White's DFX, Minelab Explorer SE and most probably new Spectra (this one i havent seen yet).
Those machines are capable to recognize alloys pretty accurate. I was/am delited with Explorer SE and it's learn mode! Hot stuff!


Ivconic, I'm not talking about devices per se. I'm talking about the concept used. I'm sure there are improved models out there, but the concept is the same.

No matter how much electronics you put in a radio it will still be a radio.

Regards.

[Theseus]

Ehhh! Hung! It is not like that! I suggest you to try White's DFX, Minelab Explorer SE and most probably new Spectra (this one i havent seen yet).
Those machines are capable to recognize alloys pretty accurate. I was/am delited with Explorer SE and it's learn mode! Hot stuff!


Remember, Hung has not experienced a modern-day MD, so he is not aware of the advances. He is probably still using the Garrett Dual Coil BFO that I retired in 1972. :D

Or, perhaps he still uses the WWII war surplus detector. ;)

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//monthly_02_2009/post-837-1234155187.jpg

[ivconic]

"...Ivconic, I'm not talking about devices per se. I'm talking about the concept used. I'm sure there are improved models out there, but the concept is the same.
No matter how much electronics you put in a radio it will still be a radio...."



Not really. See... there was evolution with appearances of DSP. DSP oriented machines are quite different in morphology than conventional ones. Different approach, different type of signall that is processed at them. Major differences.
The fact that those are still "boxes with coils" means nothing really.
Quite different technology involved there. Advanced...pretty advanced.
Huge steps have being made since '90s.

Ok...just look the shot i attached. Obvious differences between pulltab and gold coin. Can't be confused at all..

[hung]

"...Ivconic, I'm not talking about devices per se. I'm talking about the concept used. I'm sure there are improved models out there, but the concept is the same.
No matter how much electronics you put in a radio it will still be a radio...."



Not really. See... there was evolution with appearances of DSP. DSP oriented machines are quite different in morphology than conventional ones. Different approach, different type of signall that is processed at them. Major differences.
The fact that those are still "boxes with coils" means nothing really.
Quite different technology involved there. Advanced...pretty advanced.
Huge steps have being made since '90s.

Ok...just look the shot i attached. Obvious differences between pulltab and gold coin. Can't be confused at all..


Yes. Digital processing morphology has its place in electronics since the late 80's, early 90's. It improves data filtering and aproach but again in this case, it's an enhancement limited to the old MD's concept realm.

The fact this shows at the GUI Display a differenciation among the coin and the pull tab is realy neat, but you know very well that this most of the time does not express reality, because the data input and processed to ID these materials are based on commonly found conductivity standards in the internal datalog. Metals degraded, soil mineralization and even long time buried metals produce variable which screws detection.
Add to this, the incredible depth limitation those devices pocess.

Now, picture in your mind, DSP inside an electronic LRL. A processor inside. No need to be ultra fast. A 1 GHz CPU would suffice. This CPU would manage operations inside the circuit similar to what it does in the regular MD, with the advantage of pocessing long range detection and also updating its filtering information in realtime, building up a real time library.

Which concept of the above you think would benefit best?
Answer: An automobile could be turned into a Formula 1 car. But the Jet Fighter would be turned into a UFO.:D

[mosha]

Thank you Morgan & Geo, I appreciate your efforts.

best regards,

Mosha

[ivconic]

Yes. Digital processing morphology has its place in electronics since the late 80's, early 90's. It improves data filtering and aproach but again in this case, it's an enhancement limited to the old MD's concept realm.

The fact this shows at the GUI Display a differenciation among the coin and the pull tab is realy neat, but you know very well that this most of the time does not express reality, because the data input and processed to ID these materials are based on commonly found conductivity standards in the internal datalog. Metals degraded, soil mineralization and even long time buried metals produce variable which screws detection.
Add to this, the incredible depth limitation those devices pocess.

Now, picture in your mind, DSP inside an electronic LRL. A processor inside. No need to be ultra fast. A 1 GHz CPU would suffice. This CPU would manage operations inside the circuit similar to what it does in the regular MD, with the advantage of pocessing long range detection and also updating its filtering information in realtime, building up a real time library.

Which concept of the above you think would benefit best?
Answer: An automobile could be turned into a Formula 1 car. But the Jet Fighter would be turned into a UFO.:D


"...his most of the time does not express reality, because the data input and processed to ID these materials are based on commonly found conductivity standards in the internal datalog..."

Ha! Not exactly! I waited you to say that! :lol: That's why i purposelly mentioned LEARN mode. Machine is capable to LEARN in present situation, right exactly on the very spot of the field. No "defaults" to be carried out. I dont mind if pulltab will be displayed 1mm away from default position on GUI (due jitters in defaults you mentioned) as long as it was displayed differently than gold coin. See? Jitters which affects default presets are simultaneously affecting pulltab as well as gold coin, at the same time. So pretty clear and visible diffreneces between pulltab and gold coin will always be there on GUI, no matter the jitters.

"...Now, picture in your mind, DSP inside an electronic LRL..."

Does make sence only if LRL works for real, otherwise it would be even more expensive toy.
What we have to do is first to clear up all the doubts and obscurities about LRL functionallity. Once that done - the rest would be easy (to rise it up to DSP level)...

[detectoman]

j. player: geo not dude before on lrl, geo cant put to working any form the owns pd, so geo travel to see the frecuencies, and try and comparations, dudbt to morgan is dude on esteban, esteban have time help in all forms to we, jajaja you're how st thomas, need put fingers on holes, i only need for understand practice myself on lrl project, then understand lrl is possible, you j. player not make experimentations so, you need other take conclusions for you rest for see the work easy, for be convinced is need further experimentations but not neccesary see videos, morgan is extreme sincere, clear, and your dude of he, dude of esteban and the genius electronic alonso, after see the pdk prototipe in action, these is excess the videos are sufficient, clear, not trick, one baby see these, isnt possible these trick on these videos, may be any ocassional beepd but pd is work in 80 %
you need try whit owns hands? huuuuuuuuuuu may be the esteban expositions are product of one man genius for make extreme aciertos of efective electronic, i try many of esteban tips and are true, isnt ocassional or motivo of dudbt
morgan can make other most clear videos, in free field then accept? very much videos how many?

one embrace,

[detectoman]

conclusions, geo no fue a portugal por dudar, fue a ver porque su pd no funcionaba, y porque el no estaba seguro de sus propios trabajos, tambien fue a ver las frecuencias, y a hacer comparaciones, dudar de morgan es dudar de la larga trayectoria de esteban ayudandonos claramente y dudar del genio electronico americano alonso el cual hizo posible mineoro se desarrollara, mineoro limpios circuitos y pulcros, veealos, ustedes son como santo tomas necesitan demasiadas pruebas y eso es debido a que no quieren experimentar por ustedes mismos y solo quieren hacerlo cuando ya la cosa es facil, sin ofenderlos, no es necesario ver videos para creer, yo solo necesite hacer mi primer prototipo de pd para ver que si era posible lo que se decia, este detectaba superior a cualquier md, morgan es extremadamente desinteresado y no ve que aqui puede haber arpias comerciales aguardando sus conclusiones, presentar videos tan claros es exponerse demasiado, hasta le hace propaganda a mineoro desinteresadamente, la pd vemos funciona casi bien, claro esta para la labor que hace ese sencillo circuito es titanico, tomar senal desde 3 mts, con solo 9 volts compact es un genio electronico y no necesita randes fuentes de energia, huf la pc me juega bromas se come las letras, ok miren que todos los tips posibles de esteban son comprobables y fruto de su experiencia, no pueden ser ocasionales ya que sabe lo que presenta y lo entendemos, bueno yo lo entiendo, quizas morgan podria hacer otros videos en campo libre y sin rocas, pero yo no creo sea inteligente en una exposicion publica, morgan ya ha hecho demasiado
mejor piensen que morgan y geo hicieron truco, y que habia otro hombre atras de ellos con un oscilador de alta tension oprimiendolo cada vez que hacian la prueba
solo les digo una cosa, solo es necesario tratar con una persona para saber si es verdadera o no,veraz o mentiroso
o es un un lrlst o es solo un espectador

[hung]

"...his most of the time does not express reality, because the data input and processed to ID these materials are based on commonly found conductivity standards in the internal datalog..."

Ha! Not exactly! I waited you to say that! :lol: That's why i purposelly mentioned LEARN mode. Machine is capable to LEARN in present situation, right exactly on the very spot of the field. No "defaults" to be carried out. I dont mind if pulltab will be displayed 1mm away from default position on GUI (due jitters in defaults you mentioned) as long as it was displayed differently than gold coin. See? Jitters which affects default presets are simultaneously affecting pulltab as well as gold coin, at the same time. So pretty clear and visible diffreneces between pulltab and gold coin will always be there on GUI, no matter the jitters.

"...Now, picture in your mind, DSP inside an electronic LRL..."

Does make sence only if LRL works for real, otherwise it would be even more expensive toy.
What we have to do is first to clear up all the doubts and obscurities about LRL functionallity. Once that done - the rest would be easy (to rise it up to DSP level)...


'Learn Mode' in MDs are faulty and they are only a pale representation of what true realtime analysis should be. In order to have the correct functionality, MDs would have to include precise frequency sinthesizers which would make them impractical and extremely expensive.

But the bottomline as I said earlier is not how effective Learn Mode, DSP or whatever might be. It's the almost century aged concept of local magnetic field detection with its extremely limited range both axially and vertically.

You belong to the MD tribe. I am from the LRL tribe. If your tribe have always combed the hair with a comb of bone, I'm not the one who will be introducing the hair dryer to them. If it works for you fine. Enjoy it.
Live in peace and in harmony.
Regards.

[Theseus]

Yes, MDs are based on the concept of local magnetic field detection because it is a real phenomenon and can be reliably observed in repeatable demonstrations by many different operators using a variety of makes and models of MDs, in all kinds of environments and conditions.

When you and your cohorts (tribe) can demonstrate your LRL based on imaginary phenomenon in the same repeatable manner, perhaps then it might have a chance at becoming recognized and advanced up the technology ladder.

Until then, it will just have to stay in the category of wish science, and out of mainstream technology. :razz:

[Fred]

Think twice. Morgan himself probably has nothing to promote and sell. But remember the experiences from videos; Alonso's PD was more accurate and sensitive than Morgan's! :D:lol:
So...indirect way to persuade public that there is "something" behind the bush!
Hung just proclaimed new miracle from Alonso's kitchen :
"... I talked to Mineoro this week and the one thing which might resemble a little miracle from Alonso will come up soon..."

Ok...this could sound as conspiracy theory, which in fact is not. I am sceptic but i am not paranoic (at least not that much) :lol:!


I personally am sure that Morgan (and Geo) only want to show us how this LRL works.Nothing else.But i have no way to convince you :shrug:
Now Hung lives in a parallel dimension where he rules laws of physics and they follow his directives.That´s fine for me, but i wouldn´t give too much importnace to his claims.


about the rest:

"....-Long time buried metal creates an anomaly larger than the metal itself (it is a fact, halo effect)
-this anomaly creates a difference in soil resistivity (for ex.)
-This (lower) soil resistivity creates a difference in voltage gradient above it.

Then you measure the voltage gradient (100v/m) above earth surface...
This is not easy nor 100% fiable,plus direction sensitive, thus all the problems found with thos devices...."

Good thinking. I agree. Conventional science already made some steps in that direction. Magnetometry, NMR, GPR ...etc..etc..
We are hobbysts here, we deal with "easy" stuff. More advance technology is already available....for certain sum of course - we can not afford! :frown:
But in industry simillar technology is already in use for some time.
Not cheap stuff - way over our league, that's why we dont speak to much about those....

You see ? this is a tecnhical forum; I have done this before, and others too: to give a possible explanation of how LRL CAN work.
That should have interested people, someone should have begun to test it or give an opinion about it, or build some testing device, instead we have the same old sterile discussions .
I think a carefull ballance of electric and magnetic field detector could work to detect those gradients anomalies.They are both related and detecting variations only when both are changing could help to avoid interferences.
Esteban have said before either a fm receiver and a loop (spiral or whatever) can make a LRL in some extend.Maybe the PD is the mixing of both.
Maybe this is all trick of the mind.This possibility is still open, unfortunately,but at least reasonable solutions should be discussed seriously.
Regards,
Fred.

[hung]

Now Hung lives in a parallel dimension where he rules laws of physics and they follow his directives.That´s fine for me, but i wouldn´t give too much importnace to his claims.

Fred.

One more BS from ignorants.
Prove what you claimed above.

Mirror Ivconic and level your imaturity.

[Max]

I personally am sure that Morgan (and Geo) only want to show us how this LRL works.Nothing else.But i have no way to convince you :shrug:
Now Hung lives in a parallel dimension where he rules laws of physics and they follow his directives.That´s fine for me, but i wouldn´t give too much importnace to his claims.


You see ? this is a tecnhical forum; I have done this before, and others too: to give a possible explanation of how LRL CAN work.
That should have interested people, someone should have begun to test it or give an opinion about it, or build some testing device, instead we have the same old sterile discussions .
I think a carefull ballance of electric and magnetic field detector could work to detect those gradients anomalies.They are both related and detecting variations only when both are changing could help to avoid interferences.
Esteban have said before either a fm receiver and a loop (spiral or whatever) can make a LRL in some extend.Maybe the PD is the mixing of both.
Maybe this is all trick of the mind.This possibility is still open, unfortunately,but at least reasonable solutions should be discussed seriously.
Regards,
Fred.

Who told you that Dr. Hung live in a parallel dimension ??? :nono:

She lives in a bunker... :rolleyes:

And need be debunkered from time to time... :D

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

One more BS from ignorants.
Prove what you claimed above.

Mirror Ivconic and level your imaturity.

Do you mena debunker that ???

Can I use this !? :shocked:

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

Prove what you claimed above.

:lol:

:rolleyes:

[Fred]

Who told you that Dr. Hung live in a parallel dimension ??? :nono:

She lives in a bunker... :rolleyes:

And need be debunkered from time to time... :D

Kind regards,
Max

Sorry aparently i´m living in the same dimention as Hung´s :help:

[Max]

Sorry aparently i´m living in the same dimention as Hung´s :help:

Hmmmm...


you can always call Chuck Norris and Delta Force.... though... I think he will not save you...

You know... he's a proven failure at everything he does... :lol:

Don't you know the humor about Chuck Norris ???

Like this:

"They once made a Chuck Norris toilet paper, but it wouldn't take $hit from anybody."

or...

"A blind man once stepped on Chuck Norris' shoe. Chuck replied, "Don't you know who I am? I'm Chuck Norris!" The mere mention of his name cured this man blindness. Sadly the first, last, and only thing this man ever saw, was a fatal roundhouse delivered by Chuck Norris."

or...

"If you have five dollars and Chuck Norris has five dollars, Chuck Norris has more money than you."

or... (I like this one)

"Chuck Norris ordered a Big Mac at Burger King, and got one." :lol:

But will not save you I think... just will kick you somewhere maybe... :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[ivconic]

Chuck Norris was something ... and than he met Bruce Lee! :lol::lol::lol:

[ivconic]

"...Now Hung lives in a parallel dimension where he rules laws of physics and they follow his directives.That´s fine for me, but i wouldn´t give too much importnace to his claims...."

Despite such huge variances, it is still good to maintain dialogue. I am not against dialogue. Once i read something that does not suits me i will leave debate. Nobody is pushing me to continue. Next time on next subject we will meet again and debate more...not a big deal.
I am "inflammable" from time to time. Huge drawback. So i decided to change myself and take it easy. Each time something bugs me - i will leave and cool out. Better that way than to stay and argue. Peace among us!

[J_Player]

Now Hung lives in a parallel dimension where he rules laws of physics and they follow his directives.That´s fine for me, but i wouldn´t give too much importnace to his claims.

Fred.

Originally Posted by hung
One more BS from ignorants.
Prove what you claimed above.

Mirror Ivconic and level your imaturity. Prove it?
Sure, the evidence is in your LRL science posts.

The LRL technology that we saw shown in Morgan's demonstration included antique metal detector circuits and antique classic passive receiver designs with standard filters, sometimes combined into a single detector. Yet you compare the LRL technology as similar to a jet fighter contrasted to a conventional metal detector being similar to a car.

It seems to me that even modern metal detectors that to not use PICs contain more advanced technology than found in the LRLs that were shown. At least they use circuitry that has progressed from the 1960's metal detector designs that are found in some of these LRLs. But you maintain the LRL technology is much more advanced, taking advantages of "little known" properties of gold, and "little known" advanced science:

"Gold is the most powerful 'self defensive' metal when it comes to avoid any harm to its structure, such as rust, oxidation, etc. Its DNA produces a substance which coats the metal to fight against those 'threats'."
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=84058&postcount=41

This is the principle in which the Rangertell Examiner works. Resonance to the elements subatomic levels when a carrier signal line is shot and returned".
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=41226&postcount=99

"The Examiner is clearly a radionic device".
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=64567&postcount=356

"Back to the Examiner’s concept, there’s a portion in ECE which I already mentioned which might explain how the magnetic fields produced by the unit even diminute might be working provided one gets free of the standard Maxwell Heaviside concept and maybe start to find some backup on the Aharonov-Bohm and the field and potential relationship, as Myron Evans points out as part of an explanation when I presented him the examiner pictures , concepts and my initial tests..."
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=63626&postcount=10

These are just a few examples of the weird science you posted. I can cite pages of diatribe shown in your posts explaining science principles that nobody has ever heard of except you and members of your "secret team".

Is there any wonder why readers claim Dr. hung is living in a parallel dimension?

Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

"...Now Hung lives in a parallel dimension where he rules laws of physics and they follow his directives.That´s fine for me, but i wouldn´t give too much importnace to his claims...."

Despite such huge variances, it is still good to maintain dialogue. I am not against dialogue. Once i read something that does not suits me i will leave debate. Nobody is pushing me to continue. Next time on next subject we will meet again and debate more...not a big deal.
I am "inflammable" from time to time. Huge drawback. So i decided to change myself and take it easy. Each time something bugs me - i will leave and cool out. Better that way than to stay and argue. Peace among us!



Altough skepthic, you are wise, polite and keep debating in high level as subject requires when others allow.
That's why I have many times chosen to leave important discussion with some members to PM.
Sorry for the outside noise and the abrupt interruption of our conversation, but I fear such serious debate you mention will never be possible here. Now you see why.
Regards.

[J_Player]

Altough skepthic, you are wise, polite and keep debating in high level as subject requires when others allow.
That's why I have many times chosen to leave important discussion with some members to PM.
Sorry for the outside noise and the abrupt interruption of our conversation, but I fear such serious debate you mention will never be possible here. Now you see why.
Regards.
I doubt what you posted is true. You claim you choose to leave important discussion with some members to PM. Yet you asked in your post for proof. I provided the proof that you asked for in a debate you are participating in. And now you are calling the answer for your request an interruption?

My opinion is you do not answer questions to demonstrate the validity of your pseidoscience because you know you have no answers that would convince any readers you are not living in a parallel dimension where you rule laws of physics and they follow your directives. I think it has nothing to do with interruptions to a dialog. When it comes to proclaiming the validity of pseudoscience, I believe you do not want a dialog, but a monologue, where you dictate your idea of the workigs of pseudoscience, and will not answer critical questions or provide any credible proof to back up what you say. I think this is your motive for saying the proof to what you are claiming is "a secret". The evidence to suggest this is the case is also found in your posts over a several year time span.

I think Fred has it right when he says: "Now Hung lives in a parallel dimension where he rules laws of physics and they follow his directives.That´s fine for me, but i wouldn´t give too much importnace to his claims".

Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

I think Fred has it right when he says: "Now Hung lives in a parallel dimension where he rules laws of physics and they follow his directives.That´s fine for me, but i wouldn´t give too much importnace to his claims".

Best wishes,
J_P

Oh, good.
Just add me to your 'ignore list' and quit reading my useless posts once and for all. Simple as that. Doing this you will not waste your time anymore in my 'paralel dimension' and will do a good thing to me and to yourself. Can I ask you this favor? Or you are a masochist?:shrug:

[J_Player]

Oh, good.
Just add me to your 'ignore list' and quit reading my useless posts once and for all. Simple as that. Doing this you will not waste your time anymore in my 'paralel dimension' and will do a good thing to me and to yourself. Can I ask you this favor? Or you are a masochist?:shrug:Of course, I don't find your unfounded pseudoscience objectionable. I am simply carrying on the purpose of a public forum... to provide a dialog where we ask questions about things we don't understand. If you are incapable providing any credible evidence to support your pseudoscience, then this does not bother me. I will be content to continue asking how you arrived at conclusions like "gold DNA produces a substance that coats the surface of the metal" and other amazing secret scientific discoveries. The fact is, I like to see a forum being used for the purpose it was created. If this was a website that hosted only private messages, then I would not be able to read about weird science that convinces readers some members live in a parallel dimension.

Sure... keep up with your diatribe and be careful to never provide anything to substantiate it. Continue your posts asking for proof, then claim it is an interruption when proof is provided. I kind of like the effect you produce. Also, take note: I do not have intent to be impolite. I am only expressing an opinion that seems correct to me. I know you actually believe the pseudoscience and fantastic stories you tell are true. And I know you are a real good guy. You are welcome to come visit any time you happen to be in the LA area. I am sure my friends at the local bar will think you are an ok guy too, and they will listen with great interest to all your stories over an ice cold refreshing glass of beer.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Dr Hung.... new stuff !??? :lol:

Even Esteban told us that device need to be slowly sweeped right-left/left-right...

What are you talking about ???

Always non sense from you... :D and red hairs...

Kind regards,
Max

Remember, you're "eliminated" of Hung's list, so he can't read your posts!

[WM6]

Remember, you're "eliminated" of Hung's list, so he can't read your posts!

Meetings with the reality are unbearable.

[Max]

Remember, you're "eliminated" of Hung's list, so he can't read your posts!

Hmmmmm....

But I write for others (and me) to laugh... not for him... :D

I think Dr. Hung and his DNA of gold is not that big lost in my audience! :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Hmmmmm....

But I write for others (and me) to laugh... not for him... :D

I think Dr. Hung and his DNA of gold is not that big lost in my audience! :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

If your "audience" follow you, your audience is silly. I combat you and your audience.

[Max]

If your "audience" follow you, your audience is silly. I combat you and your audience.

Esteban that uses logic ??? :D

A real paradox now ! :rolleyes:

Maybe are side effects of PaloAlto and napalm... :D

Seems napalm is neurotoxic... apart the other nasty effects when burns...

Kind regards,
Max

[Morgan]

From the videos, it appears the targets were known. That is no big surprise.

What is a surprise is how violently you have to swing/shake/move the locators about to make them work. Once over the target (within a few inches) they do not work. Just how in the heck do you pinpoint something when it beeps with your arm extended out to the right, but you are walking straight ahead?

The pinpointing skills with the metal detector was so dramatic, it was ridicules. Its over here…no, its over here..no, its way over here.

Good grief folks
First of all :

We not swing detectors too fast,its the digital camera problem,it makes it more fast becouse of low resolution.

Of course the targets was located previously or instead of 40 MGb of film we will have 500 MGb.

[putrechigi]

that incredible people afther the video you have only this to make and to said !!! congratulation

[Jim]

First of all :

We not swing detectors too fast,its the digital camera problem,it makes it more fast becouse of low resolution.

Of course the targets was located previously or instead of 40 MGb of film we will have 500 MGb.

Sorry, but to my eye it appears that you have to violently shake the device in order for it to work. And even then, it only appears to work intermittently.

Pinpointing the ring with your metal detector also seemed melodramatic. That's just my opinion, you may not be proficient with conventional metal detectors.

Thanks for making the videos, and please do not confuse my constructive criticism for negativity.

Jim

[J_Player]

that incredible people afther the video you have only this to make and to said !!! congratulationI thought the videos were good. I could see there was more beeping when moving towards the buried targets, and not too much beeping when away from the targets. It did not look like random beeping to me, it looked like stronger response in the location of the treasures.

But the videos do not show all the details, so many people will want to ask more questions so they will know answers that were not shown on the videos. It would be best to see the demonstration live where you can test the detectors with your own hands, then there will be no questions. But when we are only seeing videos, then it is normal to ask questions for things you don't understand, and things that the video did not show.

Best wishse,
J_P

[WM6]

For the true LRL believer are videos evidence, because they believe in magic LRL even without video.

For skeptics, it is much more interesting all those what video does not show as what they show.

[Jim]

I thought the videos were good. I could see there was more beeping when moving towards the buried targets, and not too much beeping when away from the targets. It did not look like random beeping to me, it looked like stronger response in the location of the treasures.



By your best guess, would you say the distance the gizmo started beeping was Long Range? I believe the beeping should have started WAY back yonder, not as close as they were.

[J_Player]

By your best guess, would you say the distance the gizmo started beeping was Long Range? I believe the beeping should have started WAY back yonder, not as close as they were.Good question, Jim,
From what I saw on the videos, the ranged looked to be about 2 meters. Not the long range of finding a coin at a mile as claimed for the RangerTell, but longer than the range of the average metal detector.
If I were there at the demonstration, I would definitely start way back yonder. And I would have a non-metallic measuring tape rolled out to see where the first response was found. Then I would repeat this test at 8 compass directions to determine if anything changed when searching from different directions. Then, I would take notes on what kind of response I found as I came in closer, and I would move the detector slowly in a lot of directions and angles to see what happens to the response at different distances from the target.

These are a lot of things we cannot know the answers to from just watching the videos, and a good reason why it is a lot better to be there in person. If you are there in person, then you can run any kind of test you want to convince yourself these detectors are working or not. But with videos, we will see only what the lens can capture. Still, my opinion after seeing the video and knowing the character of Morgan and Geo, I have seen enough to convince me that this is worth seeing live to find the rest of the answers. While these videos won't be proof for everyone, they are still the best LRL videos I have ever seen presented in the Geotech forums.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Jim]

Good question, Jim,
From what I saw on the videos, the ranged looked to be about 2 meters. Not the long range of finding a coin at a mile as claimed for the RangerTell, but longer than the range of the average metal detector.
If I were there at the demonstration, I would definitely start way back yonder. And I would have a non-metallic measuring tape rolled out to see where the first response was found. Then I would repeat this test at 8 compass directions to determine if anything changed when searching from different directions. Then, I would take notes on what kind of response I found as I came in closer, and I would move the detector slowly in a lot of directions and angles to see what happens to the response at different distances from the target.

These are a lot of things we cannot know the answers to from just watching the videos, and a good reason why it is a lot better to be there in person. If you are there in person, then you can run any kind of test you want to convince yourself these detectors are working or not. But with videos, we will see only what the lens can capture. Still, my opinion after seeing the video and knowing the character of Morgan and Geo, I have seen enough to convince me that this is worth seeing live to find the rest of the answers. While these videos won't be proof for everyone, they are still the best LRL videos I have ever seen presented in the Geotech forums.

Best wishes,
J_P

Thank you for your reply.

Thank goodness the cars parked a few meters behind the target did not hinder the operation ;)

[Qiaozhi]

By your best guess, would you say the distance the gizmo started beeping was Long Range? I believe the beeping should have started WAY back yonder, not as close as they were.
This is an interesting question. If 2 meters is the long range detecting distance, then it would be quicker and easier to cover this distance with a normal metal detector, considering the imprecise nature of the beeping. The claimed advantage (I think) is that the Tesoro was unable to detect the medal in the pile of stones.

Question for Morgan:
How deep was the medal buried?

[michael]

Hi friends.
Nice effort, Morgan and Geo!!
Luckily done, thank you for dedicating your valuable time. it's a detection, clear without doubt at least for people has taken
PD in hand, but again as was expected some cynical skeptics think and judge as they like, this was the reason I gave up to prepare movie of PD reaction on big treasure location cos is a useless work and at last confront with such cheap sarcastic words, so dedicate time, take risk and...... to prepare movie file for what? for who? to make another road on my nerves?

As I said in past, about small objects I don't know enough, but I know on a real treasure site PD becomes crazy.of course not with shaking hands fast( as some point here that I don't see in movies), you can imagine after passing hundreds meters with silent PD abrubtly near a specific location signals appears and very close to point enters to continuous beep. The reaction that even some powerful PIs are unable and remain silent.
the distance of signal appearing depends on target size, in my PD first signals for our biggest target appears from 50-60 meters and from 20-30 meters of the edge of target it becomes crazy and for smaller targets appears from 15-20 meters and from 7-8 meters it becomes crazy.
so it's a real LRL ( you like or dislike), and a good LRL for serious treasure hunters for monitoring an vast area to gather information of location.
and after that check there by precious pinpointer (MD or GPR), cos not efficient to pinpoint very old buried and deep treasures.

Anyway, those guys who always groan and complain as I see mostly are from Europe and easy for them to go there be eyewitness of PD working why didn't answer to Morgan invitation to go there, wouldn't you fear of something?
wouldn't you fear of demonstrating something that is in opposite of your life believes?
Morgan innocent invitation of you is another reason of his honesty, of course if you believe him or not, will never harm him or influence PD efficiency.

BTW, Morgan, please e-mail me other parts of movie that are interesting of your PD detection have not been attached here. I like add them in my archive.:)

[Clondike Clad]

No working circuits that anyone can get working .
No proof that anyone can test
No DB testing
No
No NO
People I hope are not that stupit.
It is amost 2010 and still no working LRL that WORKS.:nono:

[Fred]

Hi Michael
you can imagine after passing hundreds meters with silent PD abrubtly near a specific location signals appears and very close to point enters to continuous beep. The reaction that even some powerful PIs are unable and remain silent.

That i would really like to see .The hundred meters of silence , althrough could be considered uninteresting, is the best part in my opinion. Of course the target should be identified too.


Morgan innocent invitation of you is another reason of his honesty, of course if you believe him or not, will never harm him or influence PD efficiency.
I think nobody doubts of Morgan and Geo´s word. But while the videos are interesting, they cannot be seen as a proof of what is being detected by the PD.

BTW, Morgan, please e-mail me other parts of movie that are interesting of your PD detection have not been attached here. I like add them in my archive.:)
I would like that too, and i am expecting Geo´s video too, to try to get an idea of how the PD responds "naturaly" in the field.

Regards,
fred.

[Morgan]

Good question, Jim,
From what I saw on the videos, the ranged looked to be about 2 meters. Not the long range of finding a coin at a mile as claimed for the RangerTell, but longer than the range of the average metal detector.
If I were there at the demonstration, I would definitely start way back yonder. And I would have a non-metallic measuring tape rolled out to see where the first response was found. Then I would repeat this test at 8 compass directions to determine if anything changed when searching from different directions. Then, I would take notes on what kind of response I found as I came in closer, and I would move the detector slowly in a lot of directions and angles to see what happens to the response at different distances from the target.

These are a lot of things we cannot know the answers to from just watching the videos, and a good reason why it is a lot better to be there in person. If you are there in person, then you can run any kind of test you want to convince yourself these detectors are working or not. But with videos, we will see only what the lens can capture. Still, my opinion after seeing the video and knowing the character of Morgan and Geo, I have seen enough to convince me that this is worth seeing live to find the rest of the answers. While these videos won't be proof for everyone, they are still the best LRL videos I have ever seen presented in the Geotech forums.

Best wishes,
J_P
Lets see again the LRL film"Target near the road"

1-I get the first signals maybe 2m or more from the target(unfortunatly silverpaper). Then i return back a few steps and detection STOP,and go to front again(south direction) and detection start again,THIS MEANS NOT RANDOMIC BEEPS,I DETECT SOMETHING.

2-I continue detection of the target,i walk over the target,i left the target behind and detection STOP.

3-I return to target again,this time south to north and catct the target again,but more short distance. becouse PHENOMENON irradiate more to North,it as eliptical shape.

THIS PART OF THE FILM IS THE PURE EVIDENCE THAT PHENOMENON IS REAL,two witness saw and recorded in film,BELIEVE OR NOT BELIEVE

[Morgan]

that incredible people afther the video you have only this to make and to said !!! congratulation
I´m realy not worry with all this critics,but when they say so big nonsense i start laug to myselve:lol:

[Morgan]

This is an interesting question. If 2 meters is the long range detecting distance, then it would be quicker and easier to cover this distance with a normal metal detector, considering the imprecise nature of the beeping. The claimed advantage (I think) is that the Tesoro was unable to detect the medal in the pile of stones.

Question for Morgan:
How deep was the medal buried?
I put this pile of stones over the gold medallion(buried not more than 20cm) just to protect it from eventual vandalism or other kind of atempts.
Its very rare to have gold target buried more than 20 years ago,i start the hobby with my 16 years old,the medal was not important for me,so i buried to try metal detectors.This medal was not touched and should not be NEVER diged out .
Other targets Geo was aloud to detect and dig them out.

[Morgan]

Hi friends.
Nice effort, Morgan and Geo!!
Luckily done, thank you for dedicating your valuable time. it's a detection, clear without doubt at least for people has taken
PD in hand, but again as was expected some cynical skeptics think and judge as they like, this was the reason I gave up to prepare movie of PD reaction on big treasure location cos is a useless work and at last confront with such cheap sarcastic words, so dedicate time, take risk and...... to prepare movie file for what? for who? to make another road on my nerves?

As I said in past, about small objects I don't know enough, but I know on a real treasure site PD becomes crazy.of course not with shaking hands fast( as some point here that I don't see in movies), you can imagine after passing hundreds meters with silent PD abrubtly near a specific location signals appears and very close to point enters to continuous beep. The reaction that even some powerful PIs are unable and remain silent.
the distance of signal appearing depends on target size, in my PD first signals for our biggest target appears from 50-60 meters and from 20-30 meters of the edge of target it becomes crazy and for smaller targets appears from 15-20 meters and from 7-8 meters it becomes crazy.
so it's a real LRL ( you like or dislike), and a good LRL for serious treasure hunters for monitoring an vast area to gather information of location.
and after that check there by precious pinpointer (MD or GPR), cos not efficient to pinpoint very old buried and deep treasures.

Anyway, those guys who always groan and complain as I see mostly are from Europe and easy for them to go there be eyewitness of PD working why didn't answer to Morgan invitation to go there, wouldn't you fear of something?
wouldn't you fear of demonstrating something that is in opposite of your life believes?
Morgan innocent invitation of you is another reason of his honesty, of course if you believe him or not, will never harm him or influence PD efficiency.

BTW, Morgan, please e-mail me other parts of movie that are interesting of your PD detection have not been attached here. I like add them in my archive.:)
Hi Michael

Honestly my intention with LRL films here is not to covince people that PD realy works and is good tool for TH. My intention already was done sucessfull,one person from this forum(skeptic) try the Pistoldetektor and believe it works,for me, this time i win the batlle ;)

Regards

[Morgan]

No working circuits that anyone can get working .
No proof that anyone can test
No DB testing
No
No NO
People I hope are not that stupit.
It is amost 2010 and still no working LRL that WORKS.:nono:
You can see one stone coming from Long Distance in direction to your head,but you dont believe until this stone arrives and break your head,then you BELIEVE,maybe its to late to believe...
You can be skeptic all your life,its not my problem.

[michael]

Hi Fred.

Of course the target should be identified too.
It will be identified soon, if situations in area changes to appropriate for continue digging.
a considerable target at 9 meters depth which we found by our MDL.
PD also detect there decisively.

But while the videos are interesting, they cannot be seen as a proof of what is being detected by the PD.
so this opinion is the suspect by its' own. this statement regards them under suspicion, doesn't?

[hillman]

hi all ,hi morgan i think that your video is very good ,and i saw when you calibrate dc2008, and i understand that i have a problem in my dc2008 it never beeps when i tern sensitivity to the right or left and it was locate the tv at 1 m but yesterday i opened the device and start looking for something , i found a little blue potenciometer in the circuit, i terned it to the left and to the right until i herd beeps and i adjust it to the max, now i can locate the tv at 3.5 m, is that good adjusting now,thanks regards hillman

[Fred]

so this opinion is the suspect by its' own. this statement regards them under suspicion, doesn't?

Not at all, and i think this is the big misunderstanding here:
Personally i believe 100% Morgan when he says he detects targets with his LRL. But i want to know how and why, and if there is the possiblity of self deception.
Because i know that one cannot fight self deception, and trick of the mind can ONLY be ruled out by "scientifical" tests .
Even if 99% o evidence is shown, i cannot accept 1% of doubt.

Regards,
Fred.

[michael]

OK Fred, no comment friend, but if you can't accept even 1% of doubt, man! you are very fastidious.;)

[Fred]

OK Fred, no comment friend, but if you can't accept even 1% of doubt, man! you are very fastidious.;)
:lol: maybe you are right,
but it is how scientifical discoveries works , Yes or no, no maybe "very probably" :)

[J_Player]

Lets see again the LRL film"Target near the road"

1-I get the first signals maybe 2m or more from the target(unfortunatly silverpaper). Then i return back a few steps and detection STOP,and go to front again(south direction) and detection start again,THIS MEANS NOT RANDOMIC BEEPS,I DETECT SOMETHING.

2-I continue detection of the target,i walk over the target,i left the target behind and detection STOP.

3-I return to target again,this time south to north and catct the target again,but more short distance. becouse PHENOMENON irradiate more to North,it as eliptical shape.

THIS PART OF THE FILM IS THE PURE EVIDENCE THAT PHENOMENON IS REAL,two witness saw and recorded in film,BELIEVE OR NOT BELIEVEHi Morgan, What you are saying is exactly what I said. But maybe you did not read what I said, so I write it again:
"I thought the videos were good. I could see there was more beeping when moving towards the buried targets, and not too much beeping when away from the targets. It did not look like random beeping to me, it looked like stronger response in the location of the treasures".
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=97361&postcount=80

I saw all of the videos that you submitted including the one you talk about now, My conclusion was they are the best LRL videos ever shown in the Geotech forums
"While these videos won't be proof for everyone, they are still the best LRL videos I have ever seen presented in the Geotech forums."
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=97374&postcount=83

I have agreed 100% that you made the best LRL videos I have see, and that I saw beeping at the target and not beeping when away from the target, no random beeping. I also agreed the phenomenon is real.
"...I have known it existed before I came to the Geotech forums. ... My basis for knowing about the "phenomenon" is from some scientific testing performed in locations where there are objects buried a long time, as well as above-ground protruberances that have been established for a long time..."
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=97011&postcount=19

There is no need to try to prove to me that the pistol detector is beeping when at the target, and the phenomenon is real, because I have already written that I agree about these things.

What surprises me is you seem to be discouraging people (like myself, for example) from having an interest to make any more tests to record the exact polar distances of detection, and from taking readings of the temperature and humidity, and recording the time of day, as well as solar activity data and other data that that most people are not interested in checking. And also making tests to see how different LRLs perform in different weather conditions, and different times of the day and night, and different soil conditions, so there can be a permanent record of performances recorded.

Am I correct that you do not want anybody to ever make these kinds of tests on LRLs? Are you saying nobody should want to measure these things?
Or are you saying it is good if some people have an interest to take measurements with different conditions than we saw on the day of your testing?

Best wishes,
J_P

[peroon]

"..What surprises me is you seem to be discouraging people (like myself, for example) from having an interest to make any more tests to record the exact polar distances of detection, and from taking readings of the temperature and humidity, and recording the time of day, as well as solar activity data and other data that that most people are not interested in checking. And also making tests to see how different LRLs perform in different weather conditions, and different times of the day and night, and different soil conditions, so there can be a permanent record of performances recorded...."

You noticed too??
Most probably he finally realized that device was bogus all the time. Certain critics from this forum probably provoked him to do more detailed tests and than he realized that device is actually not working as beleived.
So now is better to close debate as soon as possible and not to disclose real facts in public.
Word "beleive" is wrong, cose we really should not tend to "beleive" or " not to beleive" here. Science and common sense should not be in any relations to beleifs at all. Facts, proofs and numerous double blind tests - all we have to tend here.

[J_Player]

"..What surprises me is you seem to be discouraging people (like myself, for example) from having an interest to make any more tests to record the exact polar distances of detection, and from taking readings of the temperature and humidity, and recording the time of day, as well as solar activity data and other data that that most people are not interested in checking. And also making tests to see how different LRLs perform in different weather conditions, and different times of the day and night, and different soil conditions, so there can be a permanent record of performances recorded...."

You noticed too??
Most probably he finally realized that device was bogus all the time. Certain critics from this forum probably provoked him to do more detailed tests and than he realized that device is actually not working as beleived.
So now is better to close debate as soon as possible and not to disclose real facts in public.
Word "beleive" is wrong, cose we really should not tend to "beleive" or " not to beleive" here. Science and common sense should not be in any relations to beleifs at all. Facts, proofs and numerous double blind tests - all we have to tend here.Hi Peroon,

From your perception you concluded Morgan most probably realized the device was bogus. But what I see is he is sure the device is not bogus, and is working well. I think that in some conditions he finds better performance than we see in his videos, and other times not as good. Of course, what I think, or you think, or what anyone else will think about the videos will depend on each person's opinions, experience and perceptive abilities. We are not all the same in this regard.

I have not seen Morgan's answer to my question yet. And I think he knows his answer better than I or you or anyone else could speculate. But I have been forming a general opinion about the videos that were shown here. From what I have read in this forum, the purpose of these videos is to show proof that the "phenomenon exists" by demonstrating a number of LRLs to make a target signal in a location where we know there is gold buried for 20 years. The idea of the videos was to prove there is a "phenomenon" and the Alonso pistol can detect it. The videos were intended to be indisputable proof to anyone who sees them.

But we see that not everyone who watches these videos thinks they are proof that the "phenomenon" exists, or that the Alonso pistol can detect anything related to the "phenomenon". This causes much disappointment for the people who were in support of the videos, and gives rise to some heated debates. To make it worse, English is not the first language of many forum readers, and some are misunderstanding some of the opinions that are presented. In some cases I see where people read words and then infer some new meanings from posts that were not intended by the people who made the posts... another mechanism of confusion. But putting the misinterpretations aside, the basic disagreement seems to be that there are two strong opinions that most people have:

1. The Detectoman opinion that these videos are absolute proof that LRLs work and the phenomenon is real. Anyone who sees these videos must be convinced, or they are simply lying to themselves.

2. The more technical opinion that we saw only videos of people moving some detectors that beeped near certain areas. But what does it mean? what about some more tests to prove there wasn't some tricks or illusions? Maybe even the testing people were fooled by something that doesn't work. Or maybe something different than "phenomenon detection" caused the beeping that we did not see on the videos?

A lot of my opinion is based on knowing the character of Morgan and Geo. I cannot believe they would make fake or biased tests to prove their point. So can they be deceived by what they observed? I doubt that also, because Morgan has tested this detector many more times and reported similar results. But then my opinion is not the final truth either. I could also be wrong. It is theoretically possible that maybe there is some illusion causing the apparent detection. I don't believe it, but could be. This is why I think it is a good idea for me to make extra testing and record some more measurements, just to get some extra insurance that I'm not wrong about my opinions.

And I think it is even better if others will make their own testing to check for things I will not think to look for. If I am correct, and these detectors are working, then they will have no problem standing up to rigorous testing to show they do what is claimed. I think any tests I perform will confirm they are working as claimed. So why shouldn't we be making any further testing?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

No working circuits that anyone can get working .
No proof that anyone can test
No DB testing
No
No NO
People I hope are not that stupit.
It is amost 2010 and still no working LRL that WORKS.:nono:
This thing about LR stone its not to ofend.
Unfortunatly your claims about one working LRL are very dificult to realize,we have the LRL schematic but only Alonso or Esteban as the skill to tune this device 100%

Regards

[Qiaozhi]

There is little point in discussing whether Morgan and/or Geo faked the videos, as it is fairly obvious that this did not happen. I think everyone should assume that the videos are showing events as they happened and take the discussion from there. If anyone was going to post a video with tricks designed to fool viewers that the LRLs were actually working, when they were not, then the beeping would be more consistent, and therefore more convincing.

Personally I think they are genuine. :)

[Fred]

This thing about LR stone its not to ofend.
Unfortunatly your claims about one working LRL are very dificult to realize,we have the LRL schematic but only Alonso or Esteban as the skill to tune this device 100%

Regards

Maybe 100% is not necessary, you PD was working reasonably well i think.
Now i would like to make a new ferrite coil for my PD, at the end can you tell me how many turns i need ?
Thanks
Fred.

[WM6]

If anyone was going to post a video with tricks designed to fool viewers that the LRLs were actually working, when they were not, then the beeping would be more consistent, and therefore more convincing.

:)

You believe in this or you are only polite?

Why they need those pile of stones?

Ask amateur radio "fox finders".

"Fox transmitter" cannot be hidden in soil (cause not working), cannot be hanging on the bush (because it can be seen on TV), but pile of stones this is ever ideal location for LRL Fox transmitter. See videos again and enjoy this trick. Very clever but also unrepeatable in controlled circumstances. One need only strut pile of stones and End of LRL magic happens .

Why they need ferrite antenna in LRL?

To detect ions or secret gold radiation? No, for such things ferrite antennas are not suitable at all, but for directive receiving radio wave ferrite antenna is the real thing. Known and verified many times.

Pure trick nothing else. I am not discuss about intention, or who is here The Godfather. Intention are not known to me, maybe funny prank only. But final effect are very clear - one more mineoro promotion.

[J_Player]

You believe in this or you are only polite?

Why they need those pile of stones?

Ask amateur radio "fox finders".

"Fox transmitter" cannot be hidden in soil (cause not working), cannot be hanging on the bush (because it can be seen on TV), but pile of stones this is ever ideal location for LRL Fox transmitter.....Hi WM6,
Sure amateur foxhunters don't put their transmitters in the ground because not working. But other RF hobbyists can get reception from RF under the ground and even under the water. I have seen videos of RC submarines that use RF signals sent to a receiver under fresh water more than 10 feet deep, and in salt water more than 3 feet deep. So how can it be impossible to receive RF through the ground? Maybe it is only because the frequencies and power levels used in the foxhunter groups are better hidden in rocks.

You are showing a method that would be used to create a trick to make fake videos. It is true this hidden transmitter trick could be used. But this trick was not used by Morgan, because Geo checked for RF signals using ameteur radio signal detectors when he began his testing at the Morgan demonstration location. We know he would have found a hidden transmitter if it was there. But Geo found no transmitter or signal generator.

Even more important, it is not possible there was any trick with hidden signal generators because we know the character of Morgan and Geo. They are not liars, and they do not make videos with intention to trick people. Qiaozhi has it right when he says "There is little point in discussing whether Morgan and/or Geo faked the videos", We all know that neither Geo or Morgan will make fake tricks on their videos.

So if you want to prove there is a hidden transmitter in Morgan's rock pile, then you must go to his rock pile and show us a video of you finding this hidden transmitter. You can be guaranteed we will believe your claims of a hidden transmitter, but only after we see your video showing absolute proof of a transmitter hidden in Morgan's rockpile.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

are very dificult to realize,we have the LRL schematic but only Alonso or Esteban as the skill to tune this device 100%

Regards

Yes, ferrite coil (in LRL actually ferrite antenna) have to be tunned. But there is not secret magic known only to Esteban and Alonso. I am buying handy security $10 detector from Hong Kong and amend it to pin-pointer. In original security detector with 14cm round coil can not detect scout knife at more than poor 3cm in air. After conversion and replacement original coil with exactly tunned ferrite coil new pin-pointer can detect the same scout knife at more than 20 cm in air (bad tuned at only 1 cm).

Regarding ferrite coil most of builders repeat the one same mistake: for tuning they not to provide free movement all of three parts of ferrite coils (coil 1, coil 2 and ferrite rod). Without this, neither the Fox LRL receiver nor pin pointer can not be optimal tuned, even everything else is done as necessary. But no wooodooo magic at all.

[WM6]

? Maybe it is only because the frequencies and power levels used in the foxhunter groups are better hidden in rocks.



Yes it is question of power. There are huge damping of such week signal in soil especially in wet soil. Frequency can be tuned on both TR and RX devices. Different frequencies have very different abilities penetration through a given substance. Fox hunter can hide in bush too, but there are not such video evidence because transmitters are known and searched.

[J_Player]

Yes it is question of power. There are huge damping of such week signal in soil especially in wet soil. Frequency can be tuned on both TR and RX devices. Different frequencies have very different abilities penetration through a given substance. Fox hunter can hide in bush too, but there are not such video evidence because transmitters are known and searched.Great!
Show us your video of the hidden transmitter in Morgan's rock pile so we can have absolute proof to believe it is a fake like you do.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Great!
Show us your video of the hidden transmitter in Morgan's rock pile so we can have absolute proof to believe it is a fake like you do.

Best wishes,
J_P

No problem, give me pile of rocks.

[Jim]

In my opinion, testing on known targets is not really testing.

Further reading now indicates there was a known buried target amongst the rocks. This information was unknown to me, when I first viewed the videos. Now we are speculating the LRL gadgets were detecting gold, beneath rocks. In addition, the shallow trash item was incidental, I rekon.

The DC2006 does not respond. The DC2008 only responds when it is directly over the known target. The Geo-LRL responds when it is directly over the known target. The conventional metal detector gives intermittent signals when it is directly over the target. The red clone LRL only seems to beep when held or moved a certain way and beeps when not aimed at the target. The PD also beeped when moved a certain way, and beeped while not even pointing at the rocks.

In all honesty, I would be less skeptical had these guys actually detected an Unknown target from several meters away and retrieved the item. Maybe next time, eh?

[J_Player]

In my opinion, testing on known targets is not really testing.

Further reading now indicates there was a known buried target amongst the rocks. This information was unknown to me, when I first viewed the videos. Now we are speculating the LRL gadgets were detecting gold, beneath rocks. In addition, the shallow trash item was incidental, I rekon.

The DC2006 does not respond. The DC2008 only responds when it is directly over the known target. The Geo-LRL responds when it is directly over the known target. The conventional metal detector gives intermittent signals when it is directly over the target. The red clone LRL only seems to beep when held or moved a certain way and beeps when not aimed at the target. The PD also beeped when moved a certain way, and beeped while not even pointing at the rocks.

In all honesty, I would be less skeptical had these guys actually detected an Unknown target from several meters away and retrieved the item. Maybe next time, eh?Not likely at this test garden. This is a place where Morgan buried a gold coin 20 years ago and allowed the past 20 years to grow a "halo" effect. If he were to dig the buried coin, then he would also destroy the halo that he waited 20 years to achieve. A second demonstration he made was away from his test garden, where he found a ring along with some other trash, and dug it up to show what he found. Check his later video to see the ring recovery.

About testing, this demonstration was intended to be a demonstration open to all forum members to come and see for themselves, and test the LRLs in their own hands. Any testing was to be whatever tests that people attending wanted to try, similar to the tests you might want to try at a metal detector shop to see what metal detectors work to your satisfaction. It was never intended to be a scientific test. But if you wanted to see a particular kind of test, you were invited to come and make your own tests like Geo did or anyone else could have done. Seems kind of late to complain we did not see the tests we want at this time.

It is hard for people who don't live close to Portugal to see the demonstration and try their own tests. Maybe there will be another demonstration held in the USA for people who want to see and try out LRLs with their own hands. This might be a solution to the problem of traveling to Portugal.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi.
I think that it is time to write and i Here.
I paid 3000 Euro for to make a fake video??? Why?? I don't construct detectors and i don't sell detectors. I paid only for me, to see if it works or no. You stay on your armchairs and criticize everything. Go to Morgan to see.
I know about Foxhunter long time before you. I checked the stones. Maybe i made a mistake eeee???? OK. Now what about the other two objects where there was not stones??? PD detect the foil from all the directions and central it. So, where is the fox transmitter???
Fox transmitters are simple very small transmiters that we put near the ground. Morgan used a lot of detectors and detected the objects.
Read....
Tessoro Eldorado (i think) 10Khz
Mineoro ????? my PDC210 was tuned at 34Khz.
PD by Alonso 62Khz
PD clone (red) about 80Khz
My LRL with big coil 50.2 and 70.9 Khz
My LRL with small coil 60.5 Khz.
With these machines we took beeps from the burried objects. Who is the basic frequency that gives harmonics for all this frequencies??
If you don't believe the test, No problem for all. But don't try with pseudo-arguments to persuade the others that tests are Fraud!!!!

[Jim]

Not likely at this test garden. This is a place where Morgan buried a gold coin 20 years ago and allowed the past 20 years to grow a "halo" effect. If he were to dig the buried coin, then he would also destroy the halo that he waited 20 years to achieve. A second demonstration he made was away from his test garden, where he found a ring along with some other trash, and dug it up to show what he found. Check his later video to see the ring recovery.

About testing, this demonstration was intended to be a demonstration open to all forum members to come and see for themselves, and test the LRLs in their own hands. Any testing was to be whatever tests that people attending wanted to try, similar to the tests you might want to try at a metal detector shop to see what metal detectors work to your satisfaction. It was never intended to be a scientific test. But if you wanted to see a particular kind of test, you were invited to come and make your own tests like Geo did or anyone else could have done. Seems kind of late to complain we did not see the tests we want at this time.

It is hard for people who don't live close to Portugal to see the demonstration and try their own tests. Maybe there will be another demonstration held in the USA for people who want to see and try out LRLs with their own hands. This might be a solution to the problem of traveling to Portugal.

Best wishes,
J_P

Unless you were there...in person...twenty years ago, the medallion (or now coin) was alledegdly buried in that spot, twenty years ago. Interesting how the trash we saw recovered had not been found and removed in that twenty year span of testing the known target.

I have already made mention about the "discovery" of the ring, and the dramatic recovery.

Jim

[J_Player]

Unless you were there...in person...twenty years ago, the medallion (or now coin) was alledegdly buried in that spot, twenty years ago. Interesting how the trash we saw recovered had not been found and removed in that twenty year span of testing the known target...

JimHi Jim,
I am only going by what Morgan said. If he says he buried a gold piece 20 years ago, then I believe he buried a gold piece 20 years ago.
I am not sure I am understanding you. Are you suggesting that Morgan is not telling the truth about burying a gold piece there 20 years ago?
Or, maybe you're suggesting he was mistaken and buried something else different from gold?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Clondike Clad]

Hi.
I think that it is time to write and i Here.
I paid 3000 Euro for to make a fake video??? Why?? I don't construct detectors and i don't sell detectors. I paid only for me, to see if it works or no. You stay on your armchairs and criticize everything. Go to Morgan to see.
I know about Foxhunter long time before you. I checked the stones. Maybe i made a mistake eeee???? OK. Now what about the other two objects where there was not stones??? PD detect the foil from all the directions and central it. So, where is the fox transmitter???
Fox transmitters are simple very small transmiters that we put near the ground. Morgan used a lot of detectors and detected the objects.
Read....
Tessoro Eldorado (i think) 10Khz
Mineoro ????? my PDC210 was tuned at 34Khz.
PD by Alonso 62Khz
PD clone (red) about 80Khz
My LRL with big coil 50.2 and 70.9 Khz
My LRL with small coil 60.5 Khz.
With these machines we took beeps from the burried objects. Who is the basic frequency that gives harmonics for all this frequencies??
If you don't believe the test, No problem for all. But don't try with pseudo-arguments to persuade the others that tests are Fraud!!!!
If you really want to do a good test Let Carl test one of your units.
He will test it for free and post the information.
send one to Consumer Reports for testing

[hung]

Jim,

Your insecurity about this type of detection is normal and understandable for someone who complete ignores the phenomena and Mineoro's aproach for years and lacks any experience with those.

Morgan had already demonstrated the PD in action in a video for the private forum about 2 years ago when he had only a rock over the target as a reference mark. The 'so called phenomenon' that long time buried gold produces is the basis Alonso and Damasio employed along the time to evolve and perfect their devices. It will not be blocked by rocks, ceramic, glass, etc. About almost anything except iron and this, depending on what condition it's exposed. I will not go into the scientific explanation, being that discussing about this I would be risking to expose their discovery and the scientific basis without ethics. The preliminary information in Mineoro's site is correct and should be used as a general view of what is happening.

Morgan buried his medal as he already reported, for 10 years now and at only 20 cm. Considering the shallow depth and constant ordinary metal detection activity as he already said that this target was mainly intended to test his ordinary MDs along the time, the detectable fields in the target site must be weak, even for a 10 year period. The ideal condition would be burying his medal at least at 50 cm (about 2 feet) depth and that this spot would never be disturbed by any ordinary MDs, as when they are turned on close they end up ruining the ionic fields around it and takes time until it rebuilds again.

I the video some detectors are used, among them 2 Mineoro models, and the PDs. The original Alonso PD was a prototype for the latest models developed at Mineoro. So much so that it detects also aluminum pretty much. Bearing this in mind, not only the medal had his share of field intensity at the site but the alumium trash as well. So for the PD, who is also reacting to aluminum, they summed and ended as a stronger field than gold alone, which is the possible explanation for the Mineoros who have a stronger rejection to aluminum to only detecting it real close.
Trough my experience with these detectors, I can safely say that, in normal conditions (as the ones already explained above), 7 to 10 meters away, would be a fair distance for them depending on how sensitive the calibration knob is set.

So, in sum, don't doubt the videos are not true for a single minute. You have all the reasons to emit any opinions you want. It's your privilege. But any opinion pointing them as not authentic or the detectors are doing anything else but detecting the target is completely wrong and mistaken. We who use those type of devices and already found many items with it perfectly know that those are true and genuine videos.

[Geo]

If you really want to do a good test Let Carl test one of your units.
He will test it for free and post the information.
send one to Consumer Reports for testing


Hi.Really i can't understand you.
Morgan called all the members to go for the PD test.
Carl, don't wanted (or he was busy) to go for the test. So now what are you say??? I believe that Morgan has not problem to test again the PD if Carl go to Portugal.
But if you mean me to send my LRL to America...... NO. It costs a few Euros, but it is secret yet. I am not sure, but i believe the same for Morgan.
Also i am very glad that Carl will test our LRL for Free :lol:

[Esteban]

No problem, give me pile of rocks.

I do not believe that experimenters like Morgan and Geo deceive themselves doing false filming.

[Theseus]

Hi.Really i can't understand you.
Morgan called all the members to go for the PD test.
Carl, don't wanted (or he was busy) to go for the test. So now what are you say??? I believe that Morgan has not problem to test again the PD if Carl go to Portugal.
But if you mean me to send my LRL to America...... NO. It costs a few Euros, but it is secret yet. I am not sure, but i believe the same for Morgan.
Also i am very glad that Carl will test our LRL for Free :lol:

I guess I'm a little confused by your statement here; perhaps you can help me to understand.

If your LRL is "secret", I assume you mean the circuit and the electrical and mechanical design. That being the case, why then do you go to the trouble of making any sort of postings about your "LRL" on this open forum? What is the point, if every time someone asks you a question, you tell them it is secret?

Here, in the US, if an inventor believes they have come up with a device they later want to apply for a US Patent; there is a distinct process they go through in preparation for the Patent Application. The process involves the drafting of serious documentation, including all design notes, sketches and other supporting data; all of which must be dated and witnessed.

The process DOES NOT involve leaking information (no matter how incomplete or veiled) about said device, to anyone or any outside agency not involved directly in the design of the device. Also, the process would not "normally" include the video recording of the device in operation.

So maybe you can understand my confusion here as to the secrecy point, and help me to understand a little better, exactly what is secret, and why?

By the way, let's assume you did have a valid reason for keeping your LRL device secret - even while discussing it on an open forum, which is a strange situation. It is entirely possible to share your secrets with third-parties by entering into a standard Non-Disclosure Agreement with said third-parties.

For instance it would be entirely logical to enter into a Non-Disclosure Agreement with Carl, for the purposes of him conducting a test on your device, and in this way you could still maintain your secrecy from the rest of the world.

Are you familiar with Non-Disclosure Agreements, and how they work?

[Max]

I guess I'm a little confused by your statement here; perhaps you can help me to understand.

If your LRL is "secret", I assume you mean the circuit and the electrical and mechanical design. That being the case, why then do you go to the trouble of making any sort of postings about your "LRL" on this open forum? What is the point, if every time someone asks you a question, you tell them it is secret?

Here, in the US, if an inventor believes they have come up with a device they later want to apply for a US Patent; there is a distinct process they go through in preparation for the Patent Application. The process involves the drafting of serious documentation, including all design notes, sketches and other supporting data; all of which must be dated and witnessed.

The process DOES NOT involve leaking information (no matter how incomplete or veiled) about said device, to anyone or any outside agency not involved directly in the design of the device. Also, the process would not "normally" include the video recording of the device in operation.

So maybe you can understand my confusion here as to the secrecy point, and help me to understand a little better, exactly what is secret, and why?

By the way, let's assume you did have a valid reason for keeping your LRL device secret - even while discussing it on an open forum, which is a strange situation. It is entirely possible to share your secrets with third-parties by entering into a standard Non-Disclosure Agreement with said third-parties.

For instance it would be entirely logical to enter into a Non-Disclosure Agreement with Carl, for the purposes of him conducting a test on your device, and in this way you could still maintain your secrecy from the rest of the world.

Are you familiar with Non-Disclosure Agreements, and how they work?

Hmmm... will not post jokes... I promise. At least for now...

But the patent ? Is that so safe in the US... ? Are you sure... ?

So what's this I read on a website ?

"
THE MEUCCI RULING:
According to the United States Congress, Alexander Graham Bell did not invent the telephone. In 2002, they said a little-known Italian man was the true inventor.
[ILLUSTRATION OMITTED]
His name was Antonio Meucci. And, 113 years after his death, he is getting his due.
The U.S. Congress says:
* Bell shared a lab with Meucci.
* Bell had access to Meucci's materials.
"

Then ? Still safe ?

I think that 113 years later and after his death the poor Meucci is not happy of US Congress and their hypocrisy and the late justice.

Don't forget that Bell Company exist today and maybe you're using their lines... mr. Bell stole the projects of Meucci (and that with help of a corrupted employee of the Patent Office) and made a fortune , and the real inventor died poor, unrecognized and full of rage ! :rolleyes:

It's hard for me to say... put on this side people do well don't trust much US patent offices... :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

Hmmm... will not post jokes... I promise. At least for now...

But the patent ? Is that so safe in the US... ? Are you sure... ?

So what's this I read on a website ?

"
THE MEUCCI RULING:
According to the United States Congress, Alexander Graham Bell did not invent the telephone. In 2002, they said a little-known Italian man was the true inventor.
[ILLUSTRATION OMITTED]
His name was Antonio Meucci. And, 113 years after his death, he is getting his due.
The U.S. Congress says:
* Bell shared a lab with Meucci.
* Bell had access to Meucci's materials.
"

Then ? Still safe ?

I think that 113 years later and after his death the poor Meucci is not happy of US Congress and their hypocrisy and the late justice.

Don't forget that Bell Company exist today and maybe you're using their lines... mr. Bell stole the projects of Meucci (and that with help of a corrupted employee of the Patent Office) and made a fortune , and the real inventor died poor, unrecognized and full of rage ! :rolleyes:

It's hard for me to say... put on this side people do well don't trust much US patent offices... :lol:

Kind regards,
Max
Also it could bankrupt the inventor when he has to defend the patent against a large corporation.

[Qiaozhi]

I do not believe that experimenters like Morgan and Geo deceive themselves doing false filming.
Nor do I. There is nothing to be gained by such an activity.
As I said earlier - a faked video would have more consistent (and less erratic) beeping when detecting the target. That way it would be more convincing. Whereas the videos that Morgan supplied show how difficult it is to determine the position of the target. This is why some people have questioned whether it is really detecting anything at all. I guess you had to be there to be convinced.

[Theseus]

Also it could bankrupt the inventor when he has to defend the patent against a large corporation.

On the other hand, a lot of large corporations go to a great deal of internal expense to register a US Patent on those things they believe are trade secrets and believe by doing so it affords them a financial edge over the competition.

Are US Patents a perfect system and entirely fair to all concerned? No, probably not, but like our Judicial System (which one can poke many holes in, and sometimes send innocent people to the gallows while letting real crooks go free (ie. the fellow below)) it is the only system we have.

But more to the point of my original comment; why the secrecy one day, and then make postings on an open forum the next day? Clearly, if the intent is to one day market the device for commercial gain; that's fine, but the first one that gets sold reveals everything and there are no more secrets.

Just strikes me as a bit weird, unless of course all the cloak and dagger shenanigans are merely a theatrical ploy to pre-market the item and/or bolster someones' ego. ;)

[Fred]

I think Geo Meant "restricted", not secret.
The videos where meant to convince the people that helped to reverse engineer the first PD that it works.
Now the videos went public and it turns it into a strange situation where the video are public but not the PD.

I think those video should be considered as an advice: it´s for free, you make what you want with them, but you should avoid to make too much negative comments, or next time there will be no advice at all.

[Max]

On the other hand, a lot of large corporations go to a great deal of internal expense to register a US Patent on those things they believe are trade secrets and believe by doing so it affords them a financial edge over the competition.

Are US Patents a perfect system and entirely fair to all concerned? No, probably not, but like our Judicial System (which one can poke many holes in, and sometimes send innocent people to the gallows while letting real crooks go free (ie. the fellow below)) it is the only system we have.

But more to the point of my original comment; why the secrecy one day, and then make postings on an open forum the next day? Clearly, if the intent is to one day market the device for commercial gain; that's fine, but the first one that gets sold reveals everything and there are no more secrets.

Just strikes me as a bit weird, unless of course all the cloak and dagger shenanigans are merely a theatrical ploy to pre-market the item and/or bolster someones' ego. ;)

The problem is never for the big companies that can pay thousands dollars per hour to some jewish legal office in New York... (now am I talking like a nazi ?) :rolleyes:

The problem is the broke dude that discover something and have not much money... and that can be fooled by all this mechanism of patent office and patents... including corrupted employees.

Now... to stay on the theme... how many e.g. Tesla projects and inventions were stolen by Edison ???

We'll never know. That's the fact... that's the truth. The Congress could say whatever it want... but where did you guys tap your phone today ???

Is MeucciSouth ??? Or BellSouth!??? :lol:

Other example...

Tesla... extremely clever and a real genius at technology and physics was a disaster as business-man and let others make the money with his ideas... also cause he wasn't mr. Edison... a brilliant AMERICAN scientist... (sure it is)... but AMERICAN, US CITIZEN by birth.

Now same happened to Meucci and a number of many others... these, really, victims of economic power and image of people like prof. Bell or mr. Edison still today celebrated as inventor of this and that... and who knows how many ideas and patents they stole, and how well and performances they get from them in money produced.

That's reality still today! Do you think that e.g. jung indian or chinese reseachers or R&D guys will ever get a dollar more than salary for what they will discovery or invent in USA companies! :lol:

Big guys... play dirty games.

Kind regards,
Max

[Geo]

I guess I'm a little confused by your statement here; perhaps you can help me to understand.

If your LRL is "secret", I assume you mean the circuit and the electrical and mechanical design. That being the case, why then do you go to the trouble of making any sort of postings about your "LRL" on this open forum? What is the point, if every time someone asks you a question, you tell them it is secret?

Here, in the US, if an inventor believes they have come up with a device they later want to apply for a US Patent; there is a distinct process they go through in preparation for the Patent Application. The process involves the drafting of serious documentation, including all design notes, sketches and other supporting data; all of which must be dated and witnessed.

The process DOES NOT involve leaking information (no matter how incomplete or veiled) about said device, to anyone or any outside agency not involved directly in the design of the device. Also, the process would not "normally" include the video recording of the device in operation.

So maybe you can understand my confusion here as to the secrecy point, and help me to understand a little better, exactly what is secret, and why?

By the way, let's assume you did have a valid reason for keeping your LRL device secret - even while discussing it on an open forum, which is a strange situation. It is entirely possible to share your secrets with third-parties by entering into a standard Non-Disclosure Agreement with said third-parties.

For instance it would be entirely logical to enter into a Non-Disclosure Agreement with Carl, for the purposes of him conducting a test on your device, and in this way you could still maintain your secrecy from the rest of the world.

Are you familiar with Non-Disclosure Agreements, and how they work?

Hi.
Secret is the electronic schematic and the working principle.
I don't like to take a US Patent so no reason to want to apply for patent.
I told about my LRL on this open forum because Clondike ask me to send my LRL to Carl for test.
You wrote "For instance it would be entirely logical to enter into a Non-Disclosure Agreement with Carl, for the purposes of him conducting a test on your device, and in this way you could still maintain your secrecy from the rest of the world"
I don't understand, WHY to do it ??
I am not familiar with Non-Disclosure Agreements, and how they work, and believe me i don't interesting.

Regards

[Theseus]

Hi.
Secret is the electronic schematic and the working principle.
I don't like to take a US Patent so no reason to want to apply for patent.
I told about my LRL on this open forum because Clondike ask me to send my LRL to Carl for test.
You wrote "For instance it would be entirely logical to enter into a Non-Disclosure Agreement with Carl, for the purposes of him conducting a test on your device, and in this way you could still maintain your secrecy from the rest of the world"
I don't understand, WHY to do it ??
I am not familiar with Non-Disclosure Agreements, and how they work, and believe me i don't interesting.

Regards

Thank you for your response.

If the reasons for allowing Carl (or any other third-party) to test your LRL are not intuitively obvious to you, especially after what has transpired here on this open forum; than I doubt seriously I will be able to explain them to you. Also, if you have an aversion to Non-Disclosure Agreements, that is not something I can overcome or explain away.

Good luck in your endeavors, whatever your ultimate goals might be. :)

[Fred]

Also, if you have an aversion to Non-Disclosure Agreements, that is not something I can overcome or explain away.

If i may,
Geo has no special aversion against non-disclosure agreements, he´s just giving a $hit about spending time and having trouble to convince others that his device works.

[Qiaozhi]

But more to the point of my original comment; why the secrecy one day, and then make postings on an open forum the next day? Clearly, if the intent is to one day market the device for commercial gain; that's fine, but the first one that gets sold reveals everything and there are no more secrets.

Just strikes me as a bit weird, unless of course all the cloak and dagger shenanigans are merely a theatrical ploy to pre-market the item and/or bolster someones' ego. ;)
The videos were initially posted in the closed forum because this was where the back-engineering took place. No other reason. As you can see, once they were released for general viewing, the reception was extremely negative with accusations of trickery. Neither Morgan or Geo were under any obligation to post the videos at all, and we should thank them for doing so. Of course, it would be very easy to fake an LRL video, but I think we are safe to assume that it did not happen in this instance. Basically, what you see is what you get. Apparently there is some more footage, and Geo will hopefully send this to me via email so that I can post it here.

[J_Player]

Thank you for your response.

If the reasons for allowing Carl (or any other third-party) to test your LRL are not intuitively obvious to you, especially after what has transpired here on this open forum; than I doubt seriously I will be able to explain them to you. Also, if you have an aversion to Non-Disclosure Agreements, that is not something I can overcome or explain away.

Good luck in your endeavors, whatever your ultimate goals might be. :)


Originally posted by Fred
If i may,
Geo has no special aversion against non-disclosure agreements, he´s just giving a $hit about spending time and having trouble to convince others that his device works.It looks to me that Fred is correct. Geo has no reason to spend extra money for anything other than to take his trip to see Morgan's demonstration and find out with his own hands to see if these LRLs work or not. His reports or videos are only what he does for a favor to his friends in the forum. In fact, he has no reason to make reports or show videos to people who are not friends and try to call him names or laugh at him.

But about nondisclosure, Carl-NC has stated in the rules for his own separate contest for LRLs that he does not expect the demonstrators in his event to disclose the working circuits of their LRLs or show circuitry inside as long as it can be shown to be not one of the disallowed classes of devices he defines in his contest rules. So I doubt Carl is would require a nondisclosure agreement, or that he must do any reverse engineering if he were to watch Morgan's demonstration either, same as if he watched a demonstration during his own protocall testing. Carl-NC was invited to see Morgan's demonstration same as Geo was and the rest of us. If he had attended, then he would have been able to perform any reasonable tests same as Geo did or any of us would when visiting for a day or two. He could have tested in unknown fields, to dig all signals found, or any other way he wanted to see if the LRLs worked as claimed, and to check to see if he could find some way it would fail to work.

The idea for Geo or Morgan or anyone else to ship their experimental projects to be tested and returned seems like a poor idea in comparison to the idea of taking a day when anyone is permitted to come and try it out with their own hands. If I wanted to demonstrate projects of my own, the demonstration day would be a way I prefer, rather than to ship a project and wait for it to return, not knowing if it was lost or destroyed in shipping, or accidentally broken during testing while I wasn't there, etc. Even if a $5000 price tag for the loss of a project was insured, I would never be able to recover the time put into building and tuning the device which may be irreplaceable if it is a one of a kind prototype design. If I wanted a project to be thoroughly tested in some scientific test, I would at least want to be there to insure my project was not being misused in a way that could damage it or destroy it. But then, I have no motive to spend a lot of money and time to demonstrate any projects or convince anyone of anything, and I doubt Geo does either. It looks to me like he is sending info and videos only as a favor to a few forum members who are his friends.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

You believe in this or you are only polite?

Why they need those pile of stones?

Ask amateur radio "fox finders".

"Fox transmitter" cannot be hidden in soil (cause not working), cannot be hanging on the bush (because it can be seen on TV), but pile of stones this is ever ideal location for LRL Fox transmitter. See videos again and enjoy this trick. Very clever but also unrepeatable in controlled circumstances. One need only strut pile of stones and End of LRL magic happens .

Why they need ferrite antenna in LRL?

To detect ions or secret gold radiation? No, for such things ferrite antennas are not suitable at all, but for directive receiving radio wave ferrite antenna is the real thing. Known and verified many times.

Pure trick nothing else. I am not discuss about intention, or who is here The Godfather. Intention are not known to me, maybe funny prank only. But final effect are very clear - one more mineoro promotion.
As i told before,Mineoro DC2008 start giving signals near the gold target,i think this happens only by chance.
All mineoro are useless to find small gold objects.

[Morgan]

You believe in this or you are only polite?

Why they need those pile of stones?

Ask amateur radio "fox finders".

"Fox transmitter" cannot be hidden in soil (cause not working), cannot be hanging on the bush (because it can be seen on TV), but pile of stones this is ever ideal location for LRL Fox transmitter. See videos again and enjoy this trick. Very clever but also unrepeatable in controlled circumstances. One need only strut pile of stones and End of LRL magic happens .

Why they need ferrite antenna in LRL?

To detect ions or secret gold radiation? No, for such things ferrite antennas are not suitable at all, but for directive receiving radio wave ferrite antenna is the real thing. Known and verified many times.

Pure trick nothing else. I am not discuss about intention, or who is here The Godfather. Intention are not known to me, maybe funny prank only. But final effect are very clear - one more mineoro promotion.
Transmitter hidden under pile of stones ???:nono:
And what about the silverpaper,and the ring,they was underground...This Transmitter cant be hidden underground as you said...;)

[J_Player]

Transmitter hidden under pile of stones ???:nono:
And what about the silverpaper,and the ring,they was underground...This Transmitter cant be hidden underground as you said...;)Hi Morgan,
I have a question. Did you see any of the LRLs you demonstrated to find fresh gold or other metals in the air?
If you found metal detection in the air, what distances did you see this detection?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

Hi Morgan,
I have a question. Did you see any of the LRLs you demonstrated to find fresh gold or other metals in the air?
If you found metal detection in the air, what distances did you see this detection?

Best wishes,
J_P
Hi

We not make the film about AIR-TEST

The Alonso PD as good sensitivity to gold. As i told before ,this PD can detect one gold ring near the coil from 25 cm to 50 cm,this depends on how sensitive i can put the gain potentiometer.

Regards

[J_Player]

Hi

We not make the film about AIR-TEST

The Alonso PD as good sensitivity to gold. As i told before ,this PD can detect one gold ring near the coil from 25 cm to 50 cm,this depends on how sensitive i can put the gain potentiometer.

RegardsHi Morgan,
Yes, I know there was no air test in the film. But when testing the Alonso PD away from the camera, you can find some small distance of air detection.
Long range is only seen to find long time buried metals.

Did you ever make any test to see if the Mineoro detectors can find metals at small distance detection for air test of gold and other metals like the Alonso pistol?

Best wishes,
J_P

[mosha]

Did you ever make any test to see if the Mineoro detectors can find metals at small distance detection for air test of gold and other metals like the Alonso pistol?

according to my trials with DC2008: NO WAY.

[J_Player]

Did you ever make any test to see if the Mineoro detectors can find metals at small distance detection for air test of gold and other metals like the Alonso pistol?

according to my trials with DC2008: NO WAY.Thank you Mosha.
Did you find any detection of buried metals with the Mineoro DC2008?
Also, what part of the world are you located for making these tests?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

It looks to me that Fred is correct. Geo has no reason to spend extra money for anything other than to take his trip to see Morgan's demonstration and find out with his own hands to see if these LRLs work or not. His reports or videos are only what he does for a favor to his friends in the forum. In fact, he has no reason to make reports or show videos to people who are not friends and try to call him names or laugh at him.

But about nondisclosure, Carl-NC has stated in the rules for his own separate contest for LRLs that he does not expect the demonstrators in his event to disclose the working circuits of their LRLs or show circuitry inside as long as it can be shown to be not one of the disallowed classes of devices he defines in his contest rules. So I doubt Carl is would require a nondisclosure agreement, or that he must do any reverse engineering if he were to watch Morgan's demonstration either, same as if he watched a demonstration during his own protocall testing. Carl-NC was invited to see Morgan's demonstration same as Geo was and the rest of us. If he had attended, then he would have been able to perform any reasonable tests same as Geo did or any of us would when visiting for a day or two. He could have tested in unknown fields, to dig all signals found, or any other way he wanted to see if the LRLs worked as claimed, and to check to see if he could find some way it would fail to work.

The idea for Geo or Morgan or anyone else to ship their experimental projects to be tested and returned seems like a poor idea in comparison to the idea of taking a day when anyone is permitted to come and try it out with their own hands. If I wanted to demonstrate projects of my own, the demonstration day would be a way I prefer, rather than to ship a project and wait for it to return, not knowing if it was lost or destroyed in shipping, or accidentally broken during testing while I wasn't there, etc. Even if a $5000 price tag for the loss of a project was insured, I would never be able to recover the time put into building and tuning the device which may be irreplaceable if it is a one of a kind prototype design. If I wanted a project to be thoroughly tested in some scientific test, I would at least want to be there to insure my project was not being misused in a way that could damage it or destroy it. But then, I have no motive to spend a lot of money and time to demonstrate any projects or convince anyone of anything, and I doubt Geo does either. It looks to me like he is sending info and videos only as a favor to a few forum members who are his friends.

Best wishes,
J_P

That's cool. 8)

[mosha]

Did you find any detection of buried metals with the Mineoro DC2008?
Never

Also, what part of the world are you located for making these tests?
Midleast

Best wishes.

[J_Player]

Did you find any detection of buried metals with the Mineoro DC2008?
Never

Also, what part of the world are you located for making these tests?
Midleast

Best wishes.Thank you mosha,
We now have your experience to add to our database of LRL performance.
You found the Mineoro DC2008 did not detect any buried metals or metals in the air in the Midieast.
Michael also reported no detection from the Mineoro FG80 in the Midieast.
...about mineoros; I personally had one FG80 and used it for about one year in many of hot areas from treasure standpoint ;no result.

Best wishes, :)
J_P

[Geo]

Thank you for your response.

If the reasons for allowing Carl (or any other third-party) to test your LRL are not intuitively obvious to you, especially after what has transpired here on this open forum; than I doubt seriously I will be able to explain them to you. Also, if you have an aversion to Non-Disclosure Agreements, that is not something I can overcome or explain away.

Good luck in your endeavors, whatever your ultimate goals might be. :)


Thank you Theseus


Regards:)

[Geo]

It looks to me that Fred is correct. Geo has no reason to spend extra money for anything other than to take his trip to see Morgan's demonstration and find out with his own hands to see if these LRLs work or not. His reports or videos are only what he does for a favor to his friends in the forum. In fact, he has no reason to make reports or show videos to people who are not friends and try to call him names or laugh at him.

But about nondisclosure, Carl-NC has stated in the rules for his own separate contest for LRLs that he does not expect the demonstrators in his event to disclose the working circuits of their LRLs or show circuitry inside as long as it can be shown to be not one of the disallowed classes of devices he defines in his contest rules. So I doubt Carl is would require a nondisclosure agreement, or that he must do any reverse engineering if he were to watch Morgan's demonstration either, same as if he watched a demonstration during his own protocall testing. Carl-NC was invited to see Morgan's demonstration same as Geo was and the rest of us. If he had attended, then he would have been able to perform any reasonable tests same as Geo did or any of us would when visiting for a day or two. He could have tested in unknown fields, to dig all signals found, or any other way he wanted to see if the LRLs worked as claimed, and to check to see if he could find some way it would fail to work.

The idea for Geo or Morgan or anyone else to ship their experimental projects to be tested and returned seems like a poor idea in comparison to the idea of taking a day when anyone is permitted to come and try it out with their own hands. If I wanted to demonstrate projects of my own, the demonstration day would be a way I prefer, rather than to ship a project and wait for it to return, not knowing if it was lost or destroyed in shipping, or accidentally broken during testing while I wasn't there, etc. Even if a $5000 price tag for the loss of a project was insured, I would never be able to recover the time put into building and tuning the device which may be irreplaceable if it is a one of a kind prototype design. If I wanted a project to be thoroughly tested in some scientific test, I would at least want to be there to insure my project was not being misused in a way that could damage it or destroy it. But then, I have no motive to spend a lot of money and time to demonstrate any projects or convince anyone of anything, and I doubt Geo does either. It looks to me like he is sending info and videos only as a favor to a few forum members who are his friends.

Best wishes,
J_P


Hi J_P

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

[Geo]

It looks to me that Fred is correct. Geo has no reason to spend extra money for anything other than to take his trip to see Morgan's demonstration and find out with his own hands to see if these LRLs work or not. His reports or videos are only what he does for a favor to his friends in the forum. In fact, he has no reason to make reports or show videos to people who are not friends and try to call him names or laugh at him.

But about nondisclosure, Carl-NC has stated in the rules for his own separate contest for LRLs that he does not expect the demonstrators in his event to disclose the working circuits of their LRLs or show circuitry inside as long as it can be shown to be not one of the disallowed classes of devices he defines in his contest rules. So I doubt Carl is would require a nondisclosure agreement, or that he must do any reverse engineering if he were to watch Morgan's demonstration either, same as if he watched a demonstration during his own protocall testing. Carl-NC was invited to see Morgan's demonstration same as Geo was and the rest of us. If he had attended, then he would have been able to perform any reasonable tests same as Geo did or any of us would when visiting for a day or two. He could have tested in unknown fields, to dig all signals found, or any other way he wanted to see if the LRLs worked as claimed, and to check to see if he could find some way it would fail to work.

The idea for Geo or Morgan or anyone else to ship their experimental projects to be tested and returned seems like a poor idea in comparison to the idea of taking a day when anyone is permitted to come and try it out with their own hands. If I wanted to demonstrate projects of my own, the demonstration day would be a way I prefer, rather than to ship a project and wait for it to return, not knowing if it was lost or destroyed in shipping, or accidentally broken during testing while I wasn't there, etc. Even if a $5000 price tag for the loss of a project was insured, I would never be able to recover the time put into building and tuning the device which may be irreplaceable if it is a one of a kind prototype design. If I wanted a project to be thoroughly tested in some scientific test, I would at least want to be there to insure my project was not being misused in a way that could damage it or destroy it. But then, I have no motive to spend a lot of money and time to demonstrate any projects or convince anyone of anything, and I doubt Geo does either. It looks to me like he is sending info and videos only as a favor to a few forum members who are his friends.

Best wishes,
J_P


Hi J_P

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

Regards

[Jim]

Not trying to be rude or curt here, but it appears those of us with rational questions and observations are being ignored and given a generic stance of “they wouldn’t do that”.

I am sorry, but the videos posted are not impressive in any way. They show two guys with gadgets that beep intermittently when walking straight towards a pile of rocks. The video shows a conventional metal detector that intermittently beeps at the same pile of rocks. Silverpaper, which could be aluminum or tin foil, is dug in the video.

It is hard to hold a rational discussion when other members of this forum apparently have more information than others viewing the videos. We know there is gold buried there because…? Who knows.

The videos speak for themselves. I did not see any gold being recovered.

[J_Player]

Hi Jim,
You are saying your rational questions and observations are being ignored, yet what you posted was ambiguous. in fact your question was not even a question or a statement. Here is what you posted:
"Unless you were there...in person...twenty years ago, the medallion (or now coin) was alledegdly buried in that spot, twenty years ago. Interesting how the trash we saw recovered had not been found and removed in that twenty year span of testing the known target".

I can't make much sense out of what you were asking or saying. In an effort to decipher what is your meaning, I asked you what you are saying:
"I am only going by what Morgan said. If he says he buried a gold piece 20 years ago, then I believe he buried a gold piece 20 years ago.
I am not sure I am understanding you. Are you suggesting that Morgan is not telling the truth about burying a gold piece there 20 years ago?
Or, maybe you're suggesting he was mistaken and buried something else different from gold?"

But you never answered. So how can you claim it's hard to conduct a conversation when you don't answer simple questions to tell us what you're talking about? I don't consider your post to be rude, I would simply like to know what you mean in that post where you are using words like "allegedly buried" and "being there 20 years ago". Did you mean we cannot trust what Morgan tells us, or something different?
:shrug:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Hi Jim,
You are saying your rational questions and observations are being ignored, yet what you posted was ambiguous. in fact your question was not even a question or a statement. Here is what you posted:
"Unless you were there...in person...twenty years ago, the medallion (or now coin) was alledegdly buried in that spot, twenty years ago. Interesting how the trash we saw recovered had not been found and removed in that twenty year span of testing the known target".

I can't make much sense out of what you were asking or saying. In an effort to decipher what is your meaning, I asked you what you are saying:
"I am only going by what Morgan said. If he says he buried a gold piece 20 years ago, then I believe he buried a gold piece 20 years ago.
I am not sure I am understanding you. Are you suggesting that Morgan is not telling the truth about burying a gold piece there 20 years ago?
Or, maybe you're suggesting he was mistaken and buried something else different from gold?"

But you never answered. So how can you claim it's hard to conduct a conversation when you don't answer simple questions to tell us what you're talking about? I don't consider your post to be rude, I would simply like to know what you mean in that post where you are using words like "allegedly buried" and "being there 20 years ago". Did you mean we cannot trust what Morgan tells us, or something different?
:shrug:

Best wishes,
J_P

How about another viewpoint here? Perhaps, Jim's comments, like some of mine are born out of a knee-jerk reaction after being exposed to only that recent information which is presented here. I think in that regard you should try to understand two key points about this particular thread.


Although lots of different Geotech members have an interest in this particular thread, and are posting, we aren't all on equal ground. That is, some are privy to a great deal more historical background (other threads, personal messages, private forums etc.) than others.
Basically, the written word (in any language), coupled with a selection of "smiley faces", is a tough way to communicate in that it is real easy to convey the wrong thought or message with just the twist of a word or phrase. Join together that fact with the obvious understanding that not all participants utilize the same base language and it is a wonder we don't have more misunderstandings.

Also, some of us come from a background where a strong analytical and investigative nature required the asking of many questions and a research effort that left no stone unturned. That is not to say that others are not analytical, just that some "question" and process data differently.

With this in mind, some investigators will only be able to process and evaluate data they have seen with their own eyes. This is not a fault of the investigator, but is merely their "learned" way of analytically processing data received.

Personally, like Jim, I have many other questions that I might have asked, but based on some of the remarks in response to some previous questions, I will simply let them slide - and make my own conclusions based on the amount of data already shared.

I don't think anyone is doubting the overall voracity of either Morgan or Geo, but by the same token we are not discussing Knitting or Stamp Collecting here. LRL (RS in general) has always been a topic that comes with a great deal of claims, requests for proof and spirited debate from both sides of the aisle. That is just the nature of the beast. In that regard, not all participants will be privy to the same amount of historical data, or might ask questions that perhaps may have been answered in the past, or that might offend others because of an effort to gain more data.

:D

[J_Player]

How about another viewpoint here? Perhaps, Jim's comments, like some of mine are born out of a knee-jerk reaction after being exposed to only that recent information which is presented here. I think in that regard you should try to understand two key points about this particular thread.

* Although lots of different Geotech members have an interest in this particular thread, and are posting, we aren't all on equal ground. That is, some are privy to a great deal more historical background (other threads, personal messages, private forums etc.) than others.
* Basically, the written word (in any language), coupled with a selection of "smiley faces", is a tough way to communicate in that it is real easy to convey the wrong thought or message with just the twist of a word or phrase. Join together that fact with the obvious understanding that not all participants utilize the same base language and it is a wonder we don't have more misunderstandings.Hi Theseus,
You are right. This is an international forum where probably most of the readers do not have English as their first language. This makes it hard to understand what is written for some people. But I am wondering how Jim, who appears to be native English speaking can come to make such an incomprehensiblle post, then refuse to explain what he is talking about. Why is he complaining that he cannot conduct a "rational conversation" when, at the same time he is concealing his meaning? Does he have something to hide? If he does not want to communicate, then let's move on to your points which are well stated...
Also, some of us come from a background where a strong analytical and investigative nature required the asking of many questions and a research effort that left no stone unturned. That is not to say that others are not analytical, just that some "question" and process data differently.

With this in mind, some investigators will only be able to process and evaluate data they have seen with their own eyes. This is not a fault of the investigator, but is merely their "learned" way of analytically processing data received.

Personally, like Jim, I have many other questions that I might have asked, but based on some of the remarks in response to some previous questions, I will simply let them slide - and make my own conclusions based on the amount of data already shared.

I don't think anyone is doubting the overall voracity of either Morgan or Geo, but by the same token we are not discussing Knitting or Stamp Collecting here. LRL (RS in general) has always been a topic that comes with a great deal of claims, requests for proof and spirited debate from both sides of the aisle. That is just the nature of the beast. In that regard, not all participants will be privy to the same amount of historical data, or might ask questions that perhaps may have been answered in the past, or that might offend others because of an effort to gain more data.

:D
The problem for analytical people like myself and for you is that we are looking at videos that were never intended to be an engineer's hallmark for undisputable proof of anything. What we are looking at are simply videos to show people what they would have seen if they were at the demonstration holding the camera that filmed it. When I understood that this is what I was looking at, then I did not expect these videos to be the same kind of evidence that I find submitted to prove a new discovery for winning a Nobel Prize. I saw them for what they are instead, similar to what you might find made by any metal detector hobbyist posting on youtube. I figured any conclusions a viewer will make are his own, depending on what he feels comfortable concluding. Sure, there is a temptation to imagine these videos should prove something, especially when we see people like Detectoman stating that they will show indisputable proof that will convince all skeptics. But detectoman did not post these videos, he only offered his opinion of them before they were made. I think you can see what I am saying. A lot of people were primed to see indisputable proof, when the videos were simply what you would have seen if you were there holding the camera. I understand how there is disappointment for not seeing indisputable proof under these circumstances. But what about Morgan? He went to the trouble to host a demonstration where he invited all forum members to come see for themselves. But nobody came except Geo. So he took videos to show what they would have seen if they were there. Shouldn't he also be disappointed when he sees people complaining how his videos don't measure up to their expectations? Shouldn't he be wondering how come they didn't come and try their own tests instead of complaining?

I don't see any fault in Morgan's videos or fault in the expectations of people who thought the videos were to be something different than some videos to show what you would see at an average detector demonstration. I understand the motives and reasoning behind it all, and it was to be expected.

You say some investigators will only be able to process and evaluate data they have seen with their own eyes. This is not a fault of the investigator, but is merely their "learned" way of analytically processing data received.
I like to see things with my own eyes and test them with my own hands too. I know that if I can see and test detectors live, I will be able to make my own determination and convince myself what works or does not work. I also declined to attend Morgan's demonstration, so I did not have the chance to evaluate and to process data in that way. But I will not be requiring Morgan's videos to somehow become a substitute for my failure to conduct my own tests. No, His videos are what they are... a picture of what I would have seen if I was there holding the camera. Not the same as if I was holding some detectors and making up my own tests in Portugal. Can Morgan's videos be disputed? Sure they can. Any videos can be disputed. An engineer named Bill Kaysing disputes the lunar landing videos, claiming they are fakes made at "Craters of the Moon" National Park. If some people want to believe that, then fine. If some people want to believe Morgan made something fake, fine too. But don't come around pretending these videos were made to prove anything undisputably to your satisfaction. They are simply some videos made to take a look at what you would have seen if you were there.

Please don't take any of this personally, I am addressing readers in general who continue to demand that Morgan must make videos to satisfy them, even after getting the word about what these videos are. This does not include you, who have remained politely in the sidelines. I know you are a fair person with an open mind who understands critical thinking.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Hi Theseus,
You are right. This is an international forum where probably most of the readers do not have English as their first language. This makes it hard to understand what is written for some people. But I am wondering about how Jim, who appears to be native English speaking can come to make such an incomprehensiblle post, then refuse to explain what he is talking about.

I don't know Jim that well, so I won't be able to help you understand his post or his motives. Perhaps it is merely a timing issue, and he may still come by with some additional clarity. :|

The problem for analytical people like myself and for you is that we are looking at videos that were never intended to be an engineer's hallmark for undisputable proof of anything.I think there is a reason for that, I'll elaborate below...

What we are looking at are simply videos to show people what they would have seen if they were at the demonstration holding the camera that filmed it. When I understood that this is what I was looking at, then I did not expect these videos to be the same kind of evidence that I find submitted to prove a new discovery for winning a Nobel prize. I saw them for what they are instead, similar to what you might find made by any metal detector hobbyist posting on youtube. I agree. Again, I think there is a reason for expecting something other than a simple YouTube video. I'll elaborate below...

Sure, there is a temptation to imagine these videos should prove something, especially when we see people like Detectoman stating that they will show indisputable proof that will convince all skeptics.A..Ha... and now you are beginning to touch on the reason some might have been expecting more.

But detectoman did not post these videos, he only offered his opinion of them before they were made. I think you can see what I am saying. A lot of people were primed to see indisputable proof,...Yes! The operative word here being primed. But, if memory serves me right, I don't think it was only Detectoman that made the comments. Perhaps, ...but I did not take the time to go back through hundreds of other posts, many of which are not in this thread.

I understand how there is disappointment for not seeing indisputable proof under these circumstances. But what about Morgan? He went to the trouble to host a demonstration where he invited all forum members to come see for themselves. But nobody came except Geo. So he took videos to show what they would have seen if they were there. Shouldn't he also be disappointed when he sees people complaining how his videos don't measure up to their expectations? Shouldn't he be wondering how come they didn't come and try their own tests instead of complaining?Should Morgan feel bad that out of so many members, only Geo showed up?

Here is my opinion on that question, others may differ: No, he shouldn't. As you may or may not have guessed by now the practice of dowsing and other RS devices (LRLs) have long been an interest of mine. Yes, I've spent considerable resources, both time and money in the pursuit of and investigation of the topic. Still, it is only a part-time hobby with me, but one which I do have an invested interest in. However, it will never be something important enough for me to fund travel half way around the world in order witness a demonstration of, and quite obviously many other members must have felt the same way.

Should Morgan be disappointed about complaints?

Well... that depends. Perhaps at first thought, yes he could be disappointed. However, realistically, he really shouldn't be disappointed because I know from experience no matter what was on the videos, or to what extremes the participants went to in order to create a fair and perfect protocol - there will always be those who will criticize it and find it lacking in some sort of control or test parameter. It's called Monday Morning Quarterbacking, and it is really easy to do.

I don't see any fault in Morgan's videos or fault in the expectations of people who thought the videos were to be something different than some videos to show what you would see at an average detector demonstration. I understand the motives and reasoning behind it all, and it was to be expected.Good I agree, ...and I'm glad you can appreciate both facets.

Please don't take any of this personally, I am addressing readers in general who demand that Morgan must make videos to satisfy them, not you, who have remained politely in the sidelines. I know you are a fair person with an open mind who understands critical thinking.

Best wishes,
J_PI don't take what you have said personally... but I do like to respond. ;)

[ivconic]

"... I am addressing readers in general who continue to demand that Morgan must make videos to satisfy them, even after getting the word about what these videos are. This does not include you, who have remained politely in the sidelines. I know you are a fair person with an open mind who understands critical thinking..."


Say...aren't you twisting some facts here?

"...must make videos to satisfy them..." ????

Hopefully by "them" you mean TRUTH?!

Debating with you on any subject usually can turn into neverending story and most probably bad and ugly argue. Once i realized that - i decided to void such situations. I am here on this forum to deal with real stuff, material work and facts - not to debate about and to evolve various wild theories.
So, now i will only remind you; that neither me, neither anybody else NEVER asked Morgan or Geo to "must make videos to satisfy..." .
Morgan himself made many claims about that device and it's functionallity.
After watching those movies i just noticed that I DONT SEE PROOFS of his previous claims - that's all. Simply as that.
On those videos i don't see detailed checks and tests. I don't se proofs.
What i see on those videos is more or less same to what i saw on numerous simillar presentations made in the past, on simillar subject.

Talk much as you want here. Write more novels if you need. But please don't twist facts. All of the sudden you appeared to be first to defend Morgan from .....i really don't know from what?
Bye!

[J_Player]

"... I am addressing readers in general who continue to demand that Morgan must make videos to satisfy them, even after getting the word about what these videos are. This does not include you, who have remained politely in the sidelines. I know you are a fair person with an open mind who understands critical thinking..."


Say...aren't you twisting some facts here?

"...must make videos to satisfy them..." ????

Hopefully by "them" you mean TRUTH?!No,
I meant what I said, not something different. No argument from me if you don't want it.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Jim]

Hi Theseus,
You are right. This is an international forum where probably most of the readers do not have English as their first language. This makes it hard to understand what is written for some people. But I am wondering how Jim, who appears to be native English speaking can come to make such an incomprehensiblle post, then refuse to explain what he is talking about. Why is he complaining that he cannot conduct a "rational conversation" when, at the same time he is concealing his meaning? Does he have something to hide? If he does not want to communicate, then let's move on to your points which are well stated...



Sorry if you can't quite understand my text. I am trying to be rather polite and keep a civil tongue about this.

In regards to the LRLs in the video. Just what exactly are they allegedly detecting? Are they detecting ions or metal? Evidently, there are those who have the false belief that gold somehow emits ions in a non-laboratory environment. Oddly enough, this phenomenon is called the "halo" effect.

In the twenty five years that I have been metal detecting, the myth of the "halo" effect has never been proven in regards to buried gold. The "halo" effect has been the topic of many heated debates. Plausible evidence, that can be validated in the field, has never been produced.

In regards to the allegedly buried gold, that was not recovered. I refuse to drink the kool-aid. I am not doubting the honesty of these fellows, only that I didn't see any gold. I did see tin foil that evidently has been tainting the test garden all of these years, without being recovered/removed.

Do I have something to hide? Rather cheap shot, eh?

[J_Player]

Sorry if you can't quite understand my text. I am trying to be rather polite and keep a civil tongue about this.

In regards to the LRLs in the video. Just what exactly are they allegedly detecting? Are they detecting ions or metal? Evidently, there are those who have the false belief that gold somehow emits ions in a non-laboratory environment. Oddly enough, this phenomenon is called the "halo" effect.

In the twenty five years that I have been metal detecting, the myth of the "halo" effect has never been proven in regards to buried gold. The "halo" effect has been the topic of many heated debates. Plausible evidence, that can be validated in the field, has never been produced.

In regards to the allegedly buried gold, that was not recovered. I refuse to drink the kool-aid. I am not doubting the honesty of these fellows, only that I didn't see any gold. I did see tin foil that evidently has been tainting the test garden all of these years, without being recovered/removed.

Do I have something to hide? Rather cheap shot, eh?Hi Jim,
Yup, it was kind of a cheap shot. I was trying to get a response.
I think we all know you didn't mean anything inflammatory.

And you're right, this involves several subjects that always seem to be controversial. But you are asking some interesting things.
I don't know what exactly they are detecting. I doubt ions. Maybe some kind of signal associated with the buried metal. I couldn't know for sure unless I made some tests. Even if I made some tests, I doubt I would be able to figure out exactly what they were detecting without spending a long time at it.

Halos? I only believe what scientists have proved about them, which isn't much. Most of what we read is speculation or anecdotal stories. But I can tell you for sure that gold does give up ions outside of a laboratory. Scientists and technicians have been measuring gold ions released in the soil now for a couple of decades with enough consistency and accuracy to make a fortune in recovering buried gold. I can show you hundreds of web pages showing examples of this all over the world. I can also show you explanations detailing how chemicals found in the soil accomplish the dissolution of buried gold.

But "halo" means different things to different people because there is no standard definition of what the properties are. To me, I consider a column of metal ions rising vertically in the ground above a buried metal object to define a halo. Any other effects are only speculation until someone shows some very consistent and repeatable proof that shows these other properties to be real or not. I certainly don't believe there is a cloud of metal ions hovering in the air above buried metals. But you are right, aside from testing that proves a column of ions dissolves in the soil above buried gold and other metals, I have not seen scientific tests to show any other halo properties.

I didn't see any gold recovered in the videos either. I don't think they filmed any gold being recovered. I already said what I saw, so no need repeating it here.

Thanks for your input,
J_P

[Jim]

Hi Jim,

Halos? I only believe what scientists have proved about them, which isn't much. Most of what we read is speculation or anecdotal stories. But I can tell you for sure that gold does give up ions outside of a laboratory. Scientists and technicians have been measuring gold ions released in the soil now for a couple of decades with enough consistency and accuracy to make a fortune in recovering buried gold. I can show you hundreds of web pages showing examples of this all over the world. I can also show you explanations detailing how chemicals found in the soil accomplish the dissolution of buried gold.



I will take you up on your kind offer.

Could you please show me some examples (websites) where scientists and technicians have been measuring gold ions released by buried treasure? I've been at this for a long time, and have never seen or heard of Scientists testing ions released from reburied gold items.

We are talking about reburied gold and such, right? Certainly not raw gold bearing ore or other natural, unprocessed gold, right?

I wonder...are natural gold ions the same as gold ions that have been tainted by heating, melting and blending of other metals?

I also have to wonder if silver products (like the one found in the video) ions change after the silver is processed by heat and adding other metals into the mix.

I am looking forward to seeing those websites, where Scientists have made a fortune by locating buried treasures.

[Alexismex]

Hello forum
"I am sorry, but the videos posted are not impressive in any way. They show two guys with gadgets that beep intermittently when walking straight towards a pile of rocks. The video shows a conventional metal detector that intermittently beeps at the same pile of rocks. Silverpaper, which could be aluminum or tin foil, is dug in the video.

It is hard to hold a rational discussion when other members of this forum apparently have more information than others viewing the videos. We know there is gold buried there because…? Who knows.

The videos speak for themselves. I did not see any gold being recovered.

This is what i am thinking, this video are very poor in realization, if i will go to see a friend many miles away to make a test , i will make a GOOD TEST for the GOOD GEOTECH FORUM , i see the videos many times to really have a objective thinking but GUYS you make many efforts to make the videos to put them in you tube etc... but for POOR VIDEO info to us ....
I will say you make a GOOD VIDEO of 3 minutes JUST one but with the test result not aluminum paper and not with a standart metal vlf detector (ALL of us KNOW the sound of VLF detectors ...please keep it away next time )...JUST make a simple GOOD TEST ...
and i did not say nothing that you make a fake test ... you did not .....
but I thank you very much for your time and work for us in geotech forum ....
PLEASE ....if you really have a good LRL with.... FOR ME ONE METER DISTANCE for any metal inground.....
give us a simple video which explain the phenomenum ,OK :):):) not the schematic of any kind ....I just want SEE THE PHENOMENUM !!!!! of detecting at a small distance ......
Alexis.

[J_Player]

I will take you up on your kind offer.

Could you please show me some examples (websites) where scientists and technicians have been measuring gold ions released by buried treasure? I've been at this for a long time, and have never seen or heard of Scientists testing ions released from reburied gold items.

We are talking about reburied gold and such, right? Certainly not raw gold bearing ore or other natural, unprocessed gold, right?

I wonder...are natural gold ions the same as gold ions that have been tainted by heating, melting and blending of other metals?

I also have to wonder if silver products (like the one found in the video) ions change after the silver is processed by heat and adding other metals into the mix.

I am looking forward to seeing those websites, where Scientists have made a fortune by locating buried treasures.Sure Jim.
I will start a new thread for the examples so we don't fill up this thread with metal ion stuff, and people can talk about videos here.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Jim]

Sure Jim.
I will start a new thread for the examples so we don't fill up this thread with metal ion stuff, and people can talk about videos here.

Best wishes,
J_P


Maybe the guys who created this video will step-up and lets us know just exactly what they are detecting. Ions or metal.

I feel as if I am talking to a third party. Not that I don't enjoy talking to you JP...but, I get the feeling I am chatting with a spokesperson or a salesperson and not the persons ultimately responsible for the videos.

However, I am looking forward to reading reliable references and verifiable sources about Scientists and Technicians that have made a fortune recovering reburied gold by "sniffing" the vertical column of ions streaming up from the earth. Reburied gold...unknown buried treasure and the like.

[Max]

Maybe the guys who created this video will step-up and lets us know just exactly what they are detecting. Ions or metal.

I feel as if I am talking to a third party. Not that I don't enjoy talking to you JP...but, I get the feeling I am chatting with a spokesperson or a salesperson and not the persons ultimately responsible for the videos.

However, I am looking forward to reading reliable references and verifiable sources about Scientists and Technicians that have made a fortune recovering reburied gold by "sniffing" the vertical column of ions streaming up from the earth. Reburied gold...unknown buried treasure and the like.

From what I know of that... PD... this device doesn't detect ions stuff...

But what do you mean for detection ions ?

Detecting them directly or by some secondary, side effect ???

the first I think not... the last instead is possible... why not ?

Suppose the stuff it detects (if it works, of course) is a side effect of ions in the soil... will you say that it's detecting ions ? :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Jim]

From what I know of that... PD... this device doesn't detect ions stuff...

But what do you mean for detection ions ?

Detecting them directly or by some secondary, side effect ???

the first I think not... the last instead is possible... why not ?

Suppose the stuff it detects (if it works, of course) is a side effect of ions in the soil... will you say that it's detecting ions ? :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

Greetings Max....at this point, I am just as confused as you.

Just exactly what are these detectors detecting...I have no idea. All I know about these gizmos is what I have seen in this thread. I have no knowledge as what they are supposed to be detecting. I have read the claims of the Mineoro, and can only assume the other units are supposed to use the same principle of sniffing out ions from longtime buried processed gold. Not natural gold-ore....but gold that has been smelted, reworked and other metals added. Same applies to processed silver, I assume.

Jim

[J_Player]

Maybe the guys who created this video will step-up and lets us know just exactly what they are detecting. Ions or metal.

I feel as if I am talking to a third party. Not that I don't enjoy talking to you JP...but, I get the feeling I am chatting with a spokesperson or a salesperson and not the persons ultimately responsible for the videos.

However, I am looking forward to reading reliable references and verifiable sources about Scientists and Technicians that have made a fortune recovering reburied gold by "sniffing" the vertical column of ions streaming up from the earth. Reburied gold...unknown buried treasure and the like.Hi Jim,
You were talking to a third party. That's exactly what I was doing, speaking in place of what Morgan might have done. Why? It's a bit of a story. Bear with me and maybe you will be able to understand.

I have been interested in having someone show me any LRL working to recover buried metal things for the past couple of years. I have offered several times tol post videos on a professional web page with links to all the major treasure hunting forums including Geotech for anyone who will come to where I am and demonstrate their LRL working. I would want to try it with my own hands, and to see if I was convinced it was working. If I was impressed with what it does, I would probably buy one for myself. But nobody has taken me up on that offer. The closest hope was RangerTell, who claimed their demonstrator contact nearby would not answer his emails. :rolleyes:

When I heard Morgan would hold a demonstration, I encouraged him to proceed. Realizing that I would not be able to attend to see for myself, I also encouraged him to post videos so we could see what happened in the demonstrations. You saw my posts asking people to go see his demonstration. But remember, Morgan does not speak English as his first language. He is prone to derive meanings from what he reads that were not intended, And we see in some of his posts, he can misinterpret the intent of others sometimes. As the time came closer for his demonstration, I could see there were already posts being made that would discourage him from inviting others to see, and maybe would cause him to not post any videos for the general public. I thought it would be worthwhile for all to be able to see these videos, whether they believe or not, at least so they could see what happened there. This is why you see a lot of posts by me leading up to the demonstration and continuing after the videos were posted. I wanted to keep the criticism to a minimum at least long enough for Morgan to feel comfortable posting the videos, and ansering questions about the details. At this point, Morgan has posted his videos and answered all the details to a point where I doubt we will hear much more from him. Partly because of language barriers and cultural differences, I doubt Morgan feels enamored at the general response he reads. I speculate he interprets questions to be accusations, which they are not. But for whatever reason, lt appears he has finished with his demonstration and videos.

So my part is done in clearing a way for him to post his videos and hold some sort of dialogue with other forum members. I stepped to the side just after Theseus's last post offering a different point of view. I would also like to see a lot more testing to find out what is being detected exactly. I doubt this will happen soon. Anyway, check with Morgan and other LRL proponents to get your answers. My knowledge is mostly science-based, and I will tell you clouds of gold ions don't exist in the air if you ask me. You can get plenty of proof ion clouds exist from people like Dr. hung, if that is what you are looking for.

I will be starting the new thread I promised soon. I will show the things I talked about in my post. If you are looking for something different than what I said I would show you, then maybe you will be disappointed. But wait till I round up the web links and see what you think.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Jim]

I will be starting the new thread I promised soon. I will show the things I talked about in my post. If you are looking for something different than what I said I would show you, then maybe you will be disappointed. But wait till I round up the web links and see what you think.

Best wishes,
J_P

As long as the websites are in reference to reburied gold items and unknown treasure being recovered. Not raw gold-ore ions...that is not the same as what these detectors are allegedly detecting.

[J_Player]

As long as the websites are in reference to reburied gold items and unknown treasure being recovered. Not raw gold-ore ions...that is not the same as what these detectors are allegedly detecting.Hi Jim,
I never offered to show you the links to scientists measuring ions released from "reburied" gold.
These are links that you are assuming I am willing to post here, but I am not.
What I offered is to show you web pages where scientists and technicians have been measuring gold ions released in the soil for a couple of decades with enough consistency and accuracy to make a fortune in recovering buried gold. I also offered to show you links that show explanations detailing how chemicals found in the soil accomplish the dissolution of buried gold.

I have no interest in proving the truth or falsehood of some anecdotal stories about huge signals from metal detectors that return to normal signals after a buried article is dug up. If this is what you are looking for, then it is your mission, not mine. You could ask Max about this. He may be able to give you some good information.

But I will be happy to show you some scientific proof that gold does dissolve when exposed to chemicals found naturally in the soil, and forms ions that travel upward to the surface. This is proof that gold is not inert when buried, only resistant to corrosion from most natural chemicals.

Another question you asked is about gold ions... off the top of my head, gold ions show the same behavior whether they came from re-heated and work-hardened gold or from native gold found in the ground. A gold ion in the simplest form is a gold atom which has a charge because of missing electron(s). Gold ions also exist in the form of molecules where the gold atom is attached to another element or more, and the molecule carries a charge. Both kinds of gold ions can be derived from either native gold or from reburied gold that was previously melted, alloyed, or work hardened. For purposes of studying gold ions that corrode from buried metallic gold objects, the important gold ions would include aurocyanide and sulfur complexes which suspend gold ions. There are also some organic acids associated with the gold ions discovered in the ground by scientists. The strange thing about these gold ions is they were observed to travel upward from buried gold objects until they nearly reach the surface of the soil before becoming bound with other soil constituents where they ceased to be ions.

But I need to ask. Should I post the links to the web pages for gold ions in the soil as I described above, or have you lost interest?

Best wishes,
J_P

[roberts]

The biger the lie - more people would beleive in it! :D

[Max]

The biger the lie - more people would beleive in it! :D

So what do you think of Iraqi war... ??? :lol:

[Jim]

But I need to ask. Should I post the links to the web pages for gold ions in the soil as I described above, or have you lost interest?



The links you have to offer are of no use to the metal detecting/treasure hunting hobbyist, unless the scientist and technicians report(s) are specific to locating buried (or should I say reburied) treasure. Processed gold and silver.

Although useful to the gold mining industry, boring holes and testing for gold ions is not necessarily useful in searching for a buried saddlebag full of gold coins.

Alternatively, if you do have some links in regards to specific ion analysis done on gold and silver coins, as well as jewelry (ancient or modern) that would be interesting. Not raw gold or raw gold byproducts.

Thanks, Jim

[J_Player]

The links you have to offer are of no use to the metal detecting/treasure hunting hobbyist, unless the scientist and technicians report(s) are specific to locating buried (or should I say reburied) treasure. Processed gold and silver.

Although useful to the gold mining industry, boring holes and testing for gold ions is not necessarily useful in searching for a buried saddlebag full of gold coins.

Alternatively, if you do have some links in regards to specific ion analysis done on gold and silver coins, as well as jewelry (ancient or modern) that would be interesting. Not raw gold or raw gold byproducts.

Thanks, JimHi Jim,
Don't you mean they are of no use to you?
You are not speaking for all metal detecting/treasure hunting hobbyist, right?

It seems odd, when I offer proof to show your statement about gold ions outside a laboratory is not true, you don't want to see any proof.
Seems like you only want to see proof about stuff you believe....Kind of one sided, eh?

I do have links to specific ion analysis done on relatively modern manufactured gold items that were buried by scientists studying the subject which show the reburied gold articles release ions into the soil. But I never offered to post links to reburied gold, nor am I willing to. Maybe you will be able to find those web pages using search engines. I am sure if you find these web pages that prove there are ions being given off by reburied gold, then unlike me, you will anxiously post them here, right?

Anyway, I won't start a new thread unless somebody is interested in seeing some scientific proof that gold is not inert, and produces a column of ions that rise in the soil above it.

Best wishes,
J_P

[roberts]

So?
Any news?
Nobody have nothing new to say on this subject?
So far only Morgan's device is "working"?
:D:D:D:lol::lol::lol::razz::razz::razz: