Electrotactile seeing

[Mike(Mont)]

BrainPort is a device that allows the user to see with their tongue. This concept goes a long way in explaining dowsing.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/brainport1.htm

[Max]

BrainPort is a device that allows the user to see with their tongue. This concept goes a long way in explaining dowsing.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/brainport1.htm

:lol:

Hmmm... brainport... that's why girls... ops... ehm...

You're so funny Mike! :D

I remember first time I saw similar device was on TV in 80's (maybe 25years ago)... I was not too old... but you know... I always have been passionate for science!

The TV documentary was about sensitive devices... in particular for people that cannot see anymore... the device was a camera and a series of hydraulic-push-rods placed in a large array on the back of a chair:
the image pattern produced by camera thing was converted in pressure that the rods applied on the back of the person, who was seated on the strange "chair".

The report was about the fact his brain can elaborate a pattern like the image to let him understand what's captured by camera.
The array grid was something 20x20 rods if I remember well... so not that hi resolution (400 "pixels").

But then ??? :rolleyes:

What's the purpose of sending that link to people here... in remote sensing???:razz:

Do you think will find a tresure using this kind of stuff ??? :lol:

And how will you detect from remote the treasure ??? Which is the sensor???

You missed the important part of article... these things are just kind of "converters" , you have data available in one way that's impossible for disabled person to "read" , then device simply converts that in electrical impulses or (like my example) pressure on the back!

Then ? What you wanna convert ? You have no input Mike.

BTW the person in the picture...well... is really disturbing... what's relationship with LRLs?

The real interesting question is WHY you posted that!?:razz:

you need SERIOUS examination... I think... :cool:

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

BrainPort is a device that allows the user to see with their tongue. This concept goes a long way in explaining dowsing. Hi Mike(Mont),

This is an interesting device. However, I cannot usnderstand how it goes a long way in explaining dowsing.

According to the article, the BrainPort Balance Device was built to help people with an impaired sense of balance to electronically sense a state of balance and imbalance, then display them in the form of small electrical voltages applied to the tongue. In other words, a person with a damaged inner ear may have trouble maintaining his balance when walking. He can be fitted with a small accelerometer connected to the Brainport that tells him when he is beginning to tip over via electric impulses sent to his tongue. So now, the BrainPort user walks around without tipping over as long as he is wearing the BrainPort with accelerometer around his neck, and a small tube reaching inside his mouth so he can taste small electric charges to tell him when he is beginning to lean too far, and is in danger of falling.

The makers of BrainPort list current and potential uses to alleviate the symptoms of a variety of disorders.
Just a few of the current or foreseeable medical applications include:

* providing elements of sight for the visually impaired
* providing sensory-motor training for stroke patients
* providing tactile information for a part of the body with nerve damage
* alleviating balance problems, posture-stability problems and muscle rigidity in people with balance disorders and Parkinson's disease
* enhancing the integration and interpretation of sensory information in autistic people

The main objective of this machine is to provide an alternate sensory path for people with an impaired sensory organ. In cases of damaged inner ear, it provides some of the function of inner ear by signaling the tongue with small charges. In the case of a blind person, a small digital camera is fitted to thte BrainPort which sends small charges to the tongue based on the image in the camera. Not all sight is restored, only what the user is able to learn to interperet from the charges on his tongue. So it appears the Brainport is a crude attempt to mimic the impaired sense by sending charges to the tounge which vary as the signal detected by a small accelerometer or camera.

However, I can see no way that this BrainPort "alternate electronic nerve sensor path" goes a long way, or any way at all in explaining dowsing. Dowsing has been explained to be a sensory input by many people. One group says dowsing is an idea-motor response.

In order for the BrainPort to help explain ideamotor, it must be put in service where the explanation can be seen. So what kind of sensor do you hook up to the Brainport for input to explain ideamotor response? Is there an electromechanical device that will sense the same "idea" as a dowser thinks when he sends muscle impulses to his hands?

Another group says dowsing works by radionics. Again, what kind of electromechanical sensor do you connect to the BrainPort to sense the "radionic signal", and send resulting decoded pulses to the tongue?

Another group says dowsing works as fairy tales and make believe. Does this mean we should just pretend to connect a sensor to the BrainPort, and make believe we are sensing resulting electrical charges on the tongue? Well, perhaps I just answered my own question. Maybe this explains how the BrainPort goes a long way in explaining dowsing. 8)

Best Wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

BrainPort is a device that allows the user to see with their tongue. This concept goes a long way in explaining dowsing.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/brainport1.htm

This is an interesting device. However, I cannot usnderstand how it goes a long way in explaining dowsing.
:lol:

Neither can I. :rolleyes:

[Fred]

This concept goes a long way in explaining dowsing.
Is must be because in both cases you end up with a bad taste in the mouth...

[Mike(Mont)]

My fault. I thought I was dealing with someone who could understand this. Sorry, I won't make the mistake again.

I'll spell out a couple of details. The human skin is capable of receiving a much wider range of frequencies than the eyes. This article explains how this is translated to the brain.

[Qiaozhi]

My fault. I thought I was dealing with someone who could understand this. Sorry, I won't make the mistake again.

I'll spell out a couple of details. The human skin is capable of receiving a much wider range of frequencies than the eyes. This article explains how this is translated to the brain.
The article is describing the technique of electrotactile stimulation for sensory substitution, and has nothing to do with dowsing.

Unless, of course, you are connecting this to dowsing by referring to stimulation of the skin from a non-existent signal line. :rolleyes: In which case your reference has more to do with an overactive imagination.

[Theseus]

My fault. I thought I was dealing with someone who could understand this. Sorry, I won't make the mistake again.

I'll spell out a couple of details. The human skin is capable of receiving a much wider range of frequencies than the eyes. This article explains how this is translated to the brain.

That's okay, don't get all upset, Mike. You are dealing with people who totally understand what you are proposing; that's why you got the responses you did.

Your incessant fixation with the ancient practice of dowsing is blinding you to realities that other more rational observers are not suffering.

In short, anything and everything that you might be exposed to, especially articles and books, that mention sensing, or frequencies or reception of as yet unidentified fields and radiations --you immediately try to tie it into the practice of dowsing. And, if that were not enough, you get irritated when rational folks don't validate your imaginary associations.

Dowsing does not work because of frequencies or sensing things through the skin. It is merely a trick of the mind, and regardless if you plug a bunch of do-nothing black boxes into the ground or not, the little bent wire you carry in your hand(s) will only move after an ideomotor response occurs within the operator.

It is really no more complicated than that; and your attempts to tie it to something physical or external frequencies will always be met with disagreement.

[Mike(Mont)]

Yeah, I guess you know.

[Mike(Mont)]

Like Robert Hunter sings,
"Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
Got two good eyes but you still can't see"

I would call it "blinded by extreme skepticism" or "extreme bias". You know they say people who are emotionally upset cannot dowse. They can't learn as easily. So go look in the mirror. I mean I post some info about this BrainPort and I am accused of being insane and angry??? I sense you bunch feel threatened by me.

[Fred]

I mean I post some info about this BrainPort and I am accused of being insane and angry??? I sense you bunch feel threatened by me.
The problem (if any) is not that you post info about Brainport, is that you expose it as a proof to dowsing .
Just explain what frequencies are sensed by the skin and how , it will be more usefull.
And perharps you should (re)read the article yourself... :)

[Theseus]

Like Robert Hunter sings,
"Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
Got two good eyes but you still can't see"

I would call it "blinded by extreme skepticism" or "extreme bias". You know they say people who are emotionally upset cannot dowse. They can't learn as easily. So go look in the mirror. I mean I post some info about this BrainPort and I am accused of being insane and angry??? I sense you bunch feel threatened by me.

Mike, it is not problem of skepticism or bias. Most of us here know and understand exactly how dowsing works. To say one is skeptical is to say they question, or are not sure how something works. I for one, am not skeptical about dowsing because I understand completely how it works (or does not work) and I have a complete understanding of the mechanisms involved. Yes, I've tested and experimented with a great number of dowsing tools, under many and various conditions to arrive at my knowledge and conclusions.

For instance, the dowsing I perform works (or does not work) exactly like the dowsing you practice; and with exactly the same results, when fairly tested.

It is simple cause and effect. The effect, or results from any dowser are exactly the same. The biggest difference is, you want to believe a whole lot of esoteric (even physical) stuff is going on to cause the effect; and most of us here do not and cannot buy into that notion because of the overwhelming proof we have gained through practical knowledge, countless experiments and substantiated results from many other investigators.

Threatened? By you? Not in the slightest. :)

[Esteban]

Electrotactile sensor rods

An approximative device for dowsing rods but electronic involved can be like this. Don't check very well for errors. :)

[J_Player]

Mike, it is not problem of skepticism or bias. Most of us here know and understand exactly how dowsing works.Hi Theseus,
One problem with Mike's complaint is he likens other readers to people who can't see.
"Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
Got two good eyes but you still can't see"

It seems to me Mike is correct. The readers just can't see the connection between dowsing and the BrainPort Balance Device. The reason they can't see this connection is because it does not exist except in the mind of Mike(Mont). Initially, Mike provided only his statement, and a link to read about the BrainPort. Using the information he provided, any ordinary person would conclude they read nothing to explain anything about dowsing. What Mike(Mont) omitted from his post was a few lines of information -- (his opinions ahout the mechanisms of dowsing relyuing on sensing frequencies at the skin or other human organ, or signal lines, or 3-dimensional spacial anomalies, or whetever else he believes). Without knowing what else the reader is expected to believe, and reading only what Mike(Mont) posted, there is no way an ordinary reader will see any connection to the BrainPort and dowsing.

In order to "see", the reader must be told that they are to first believe there are frequencies emanating from a dowsing target that can be sensed by the skin or other organ, and the brainport is a good appliance to use for "dowsing signal challenged" people. Then they will see some sort of connection between the BrainPort and dowsing.

Of course, after being given the necessary prerequisite information, the connection the reader "sees" will be compromised if he decides he should not believe there are frequencies emanating from the dowsing target, or they cannot be sensed by a person, etc. So what we are left with is a post made with missing prerequisite information that is being used by test proctor Mike(Mont) to determine who can "see" and "can't see". The result is if you are a reader who does not already happen to have formed the same conclusions and developed the same beliefs about dowsing as Mike(Mont), then you will fail his test as a person who "can't see".

Ummmm... Has anyone considered that Mike(Mont) failed by not posting the prerequisite information needed to "see the connection"?
I mean, when people just can't learn, isn't it sometimes caused by an inarticulate teacher?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Electrotactile sensor rods

An approximative device for dowsing rods but electronic involved can be like this. Don't check very well for errors. :)

Just curious; why one handle out of copper and the other steel?

[J_Player]

Electrotactile sensor rods

An approximative device for dowsing rods but electronic involved can be like this. Don't check very well for errors. :)Thank you, Esteban.

Now that we have an electromechanical device that can sense the "dowsing signal". I can see an immediate dowsing use for the BrainPort. Let's suppose a person built Esteban's circuit, and discovered they cannot detect the dowsing signal via beeping. This is a clear indication of nerve malfunction in the inner ear or other sensory deficiency -- exactly what the BrainPort is designed for. We can simply connect the output of Esteban's circuit to the BrainPort, and then "taste" the dowsing signal. :super:
See below:

[Esteban]

Thank you, Esteban.

Now that we have an electromechanical device that can sense the "dowsing signal". I can see an immediate dowsing use for the BrainPort. Let's suppose a person built Esteban's circuit, and discovered they cannot detect the dowsing signal via beeping. This is a clear indication of nerve malfunction in the inner ear or other sensory deficiency -- exactly what the BrainPort is designed for. We can simply connect the output of Esteban's circuit to the BrainPort, and then "taste" the dowsing signal. :super:
See below:

Hi J_P

No tested yet, maybe need some adjustment, always exists several changes... but this is the base. Other IC can be TL074 or special chip designed for electronic instrumental used in medicine.

Transpiration made more conductive the skin causes also by the salt. One factor here is that each person has different resistence in the skin and also special powder is necessary in hands for to neutralize effects of transpiration. Maybe other factor is to use rubber shoes for not to disperse the "signal", also for no to be much influenciated by other type of currents of the soil.

Regards

Esteban

[Esteban]

Forgott this connection!

[Esteban]

Just curious; why one handle out of copper and the other steel?

Metal as steel - copper form a pair, steel for negative and copper for positive. You can check introducing in soil 2 rods: copper for positive and steel for negative. Also you can experiment this: put a copper plate at light of Sun. Over this copper plate a mesh of zinc or steel in contact. Let to warm and you'll obtain some small electricity: copper plate is positive and the "fabric" of zinc or steel become negative, exactly has acid - copper - zinc battery. Four "legs" of the zn "fabric" touch the copper plate. The "fabric" of zn is only ilustrative, not need to be very "intricate" (dense).

[Esteban]

Galvano - teluric radio managed by copper - steel: is obtained 0.75 V, 0.9 mA.

[Theseus]

Galvano - teluric radio managed by copper - steel: is obtained 0.75 V, 0.9 mA.

Yes, I can understand the soil is the electrolyte while the two dissimilar metals in combination with the damp soil "may" produce a few microvolts of potential difference.

Are you assuming the same type of action will occur when an operator takes hold of the handles? And, for what purpose? If there is a potential difference, is it going to change based on the familiar ideomotor response, or perhaps some other as yet unidentified external influence (perhaps from a buried treasure)?

[Clondike Clad]

Forgott this connection!
OK looking at the input of this circuit what isthe perset adjustment.
What samples can i use and what adjustment do I make on the coil at the input.What would I use for Calibration of this circuit.
I would need this information so I can build and test this.
What I really need is the input signals

[Max]

Thank you, Esteban.

Now that we have an electromechanical device that can sense the "dowsing signal". I can see an immediate dowsing use for the BrainPort. Let's suppose a person built Esteban's circuit, and discovered they cannot detect the dowsing signal via beeping. This is a clear indication of nerve malfunction in the inner ear or other sensory deficiency -- exactly what the BrainPort is designed for. We can simply connect the output of Esteban's circuit to the BrainPort, and then "taste" the dowsing signal. :super:
See below:

Hi,
:D

He can also put the output pair in another place... that I don't say, cause I wanna be polite...

But maybe works better... who knows...

Only way to know... as already described is that they pass a ground loop around jewels (ala Abu Ghraib) and the output signal wire in such... place... :lol:

LRL guys... c'mon try it, then report here! :razz:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

OK looking at the input of this circuit what isthe perset adjustment.
What samples can i use and what adjustment do I make on the coil at the input.What would I use for Calibration of this circuit.
I would need this information so I can build and test this.
What I really need is the input signals

Each person differs in potential, I think. So, is better that the operator take the rods and other person make the adjustment of presets. A starting point is in middle.

Resistence of dry skin can be 200,000 ohms, but with transpiration is reduced to 2,000 to 3,000 ohms. So, I think the operator MUST BE USE here an antitranspirant powder when rods are in use. Also rubber shoes.

Remember that in the "chamber" the dowser put the sample or "load". For example, if you search for gold, then put a gold object inside. If you search for silver, then put a silver object inside... this is method of many dowsers, but I don't guarantee your results. This is ilustrative of DOWSERS METHODS.

This is for audio indication when you found the area with the desirable object... So adjustment is necessary in sensibility pot. of the equalizer circuit, because the presets is for adjust for any person.

No yet has been tested this circuit, maybe need several modifications.

[Theseus]

No yet has been tested this circuit, maybe need several modifications.

Yes.... quite possibly.... several modifications. ;)

[Esteban]

Hi,
:D

He can also put the output pair in another place... that I don't say, cause I wanna be polite...

But maybe works better... who knows...

Only way to know... as already described is that they pass a ground loop around jewels (ala Abu Ghraib) and the output signal wire in such... place... :lol:

LRL guys... c'mon try it, then report here! :razz:

Kind regards,
Max

Maybe, but you can start with this method, if you're reluctance toward LRL electronic devices :rolleyes: :rolleyes: (but I know you're the first phanatic of it :lol:). If you does not find anything, walking you will diminish the size of your stomach. :razz: :lol:

[WM6]

No yet has been tested this circuit, maybe need several modifications.

Not harassed by the modifications. Here you are proven schematic and finished PCB (both freeware - sorry for mark stamp size):

[Esteban]

Not harassed by the modifications. Here you are proven schematic and finished PCB:

Of course, all projects in all terrains suffer 1,000 modifications. Or you always made the "perfect project" at first? Maybe in your mind is the perfection, but reality is very hard! Do you're prepared for the hard things? :lol: :razz: :lol:

[WM6]

Maybe in your mind is the perfection, but reality is very hard! Do you're prepared for the hard things? :lol: :razz: :lol:

Everything is tested on the ground and equipped with all NASA certificates. You need only good plutonium pinpointer (pinpointer not included) and gold is yours.

[Max]

Maybe, but you can start with this method, if you're reluctance toward LRL electronic devices :rolleyes: :rolleyes: (but I know you're the first phanatic of it :lol:). If you does not find anything, walking you will diminish the size of your stomach. :razz: :lol:

Hi,
you have no sense of humor... I proprosed you a Palo Alto's style solution and you answer with that dowsing thing ??? :D

You need PALO ALTO... belive me. :rolleyes:

Turkish method for you... dowsing by the back... :lol:

But I think you know...

Of course, you should know about PALO ALTO... :shocked:

Where all started...;)

Don't you know... the rule ..."Never trust an LRL you can't throw out a window" as said by the Wizard of Woz some day in PALO ALTO ??? :razz:

BTW I suggest you try this PALO ALTO to be sure you understand where to put the signal line..., of course, use venezuela-oil-vaseline before apply and thanks Chavez! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Hi,
you have no sense of humor... I proprosed you a Palo Alto's style solution and you answer with that dowsing thing ??? :D

You need PALO ALTO... belive me. :rolleyes:

Turkish method for you... dowsing by the back... :lol:

But I think you know...

Of course, you should know about PALO ALTO... :shocked:

Where all started...;)

Don't you know... the rule ..."Never trust an LRL you can't throw out a window" as said by the Wizard of Woz some day in PALO ALTO ??? :razz:

BTW I suggest you try this PALO ALTO to be sure you understand where to put the signal line..., of course, use venezuela-oil-vaseline before apply and thanks Chavez! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

Ahhh!!! Now I understand your preference for such big kind of palo!!! Twice posted by you! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Max]

Ahhh!!! Now I understand your preference for such big kind of palo!!! Twice posted by you! :lol: :lol: :lol:

No... it's instructable for you... help to put the signal wire inside enough...

You don't understand basic LRL working! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Everything is tested on the ground and equipped with all NASA certificates. You need only good plutonium pinpointer (pinpointer not included) and gold is yours.

As I know, NASA don't extend certificates for the use of Pu in this application. Or maybe you're the NASA certificator, because without your wisdom NASA nothing can do!!! :razz: :lol: :lol:

[Esteban]

No... it's instructable for you... help to put the signal wire inside enough...

You don't understand basic LRL working! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

Yes, the basic for you, not for me!!!

[Max]

Yes, the basic for you, not for me!!!

:lol:

Maybe a typo ???

Were the basal principles of LRLs maybe? :D

I correct that: you don't know the basal principles of LRLs!

So make experiments about... and let people know... :rolleyes:

if find something... maybe about you... :lol:

your inconscious inclinations....

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

:lol:

Maybe a typo ???

Were the basal principles of LRLs maybe? :D

I correct that: you don't know the basal principles of LRLs!

So make experiments about... and let people know... :rolleyes:

if find something... maybe about you...

your inconscious inclinations....

Kind regards,
Max

The main of the people, in reality, here don't wish to know about it. I was always in the correct way not to say many things... Better for me!!! And for you??? :razz: :lol: :lol:

[Max]

The main of the people, in reality, here don't wish to know about it. I was always in the correct way not to say many things... Better for me!!! And for you??? :razz: :lol: :lol:

Why ?

I'm just talking of yours PALO ALTO studies and experiences...

I'm just observer of your "discoveries" ...:D

That's the most relevant secret about LRLs... you must connect to the right place to happen detection... as Mike(Mont) suggested...

You knew already... you're master of LRL and PALO ALTO's method! :razz:

Also, seems you don't suffer hemorrhoids anymore !

Miracles of LRLs! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[WM6]

As I know, NASA don't extend certificates for the use of Pu in this application. Or maybe you're the NASA certificator, because without your wisdom NASA nothing can do!!! :razz: :lol: :lol:

You are not up to date, NASA is (in the "Lunatic" project) developed an extremely sensitive LRL for the remote detection of gold on the Moon. They is also established a certification center for Earth LRLs. If you wish I can post here certification in stamp sized format.

[Fred]

The more i read, the more i think THIS is the best LRL :

9418

Just make as many steps as showed on the dice then dig a hole.

For Hung : you have to throw the dice each time.But not too far so you can retrieve it for the next time :razz:

[Clondike Clad]

Electrotactile sensor rods

An approximative device for dowsing rods but electronic involved can be like this. Don't check very well for errors. :)

This will not work and that is that.
ANYONE WHO CAN TELL WAHT A RESISTOR FROM A TRANSISTOR CAN SEE THAT THIS WILL NOT WORK.WHAT THE HE11 IS THE TL084 DOING??????.
THIS IS A DO NOTHING CIRCUIT.:nono:

[Mike(Mont)]

Esteban, thanks for the diagram, but I do not know enough about electronic circuits to understand what it does. It appears to be a receiver/amplifier. What sort of effect does it have on the user?

[Max]

Esteban, thanks for the diagram, but I do not know enough about electronic circuits to understand what it does. It appears to be a receiver/amplifier. What sort of effect does it have on the user?

Let me answer... to the question...

The sort of effects ???

Simple, the person buy components , then spend money as with all LRL stuff, then try to make it work somehow, as with all LRLs, but then he will discover that don't work as "described", as with all LRLs, then depending on weakness/strongness of brain material he/she can launch the LRL and anything related up a pile of garbage, or will develop if weak some kind of self-deception... self-illusion that device actually works but he/she is unable to use/tune properly... then he/she will ask "experts" like Dr. Hung and Esteban to tell him/her how dang use/tune it properly... they will say that's already everything here in their posts just read them, but must make "interpretation" of their stamp sized diagrams... and , of course, add an FM receiver to detect faint target signals better...

Endly the "weak" experimenter will start digging thousands empty holes till something will be found: in that moment the selective memory will trigger removing of past thousands empty holes from memory and person will remember only what he/she found in that single event.

That's about "how" it works...:lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[sweatofglory]

Esteban,

Eject from your vintage tora-tora right now! max is tailing you with his new f-16. watch out!!:shocked::shocked::shocked:

[Max]

Esteban,

Eject from your vintage tora-tora right now! max is tailing you with his new f-16. watch out!!:shocked::shocked::shocked:

Well... it's revised F-14 tomcat "jolly roger" thing...;)

But it's about same stuff... and effects are quite similar... :D

Kind regards,
Max

[Theseus]

Let me answer... to the question...

The sort of effects ???

Simple, the person buy components , then spend money as with all LRL stuff, then try to make it work somehow, as with all LRLs, but then he will discover that don't work as "described", as with all LRLs, then depending on weakness/strongness of brain material he/she can launch the LRL and anything related up a pile of garbage, or will develop if weak some kind of self-deception... self-illusion that device actually works but he/she is unable to use/tune properly... then he/she will ask "experts" like Dr. Hung and Esteban to tell him/her how dang use/tune it properly... they will say that's already everything here in their posts just read them, but must make "interpretation" of their stamp sized diagrams... and , of course, add an FM receiver to detect faint target signals better...

Endly the "weak" experimenter will start digging thousands empty holes till something will be found: in that moment the selective memory will trigger removing of past thousands empty holes from memory and person will remember only what he/she found in that single event.

That's about "how" it works...:lol:

Kind regards,
Max

Well, Max... it seems you have this entire LRL routine figured out rather well. I guess you've been down this road a time or two. :D

[sweatofglory]

Well... it's revised F-14 tomcat "jolly roger" thing...;)

But it's about same stuff... and effects are quite similar... :D

Kind regards,
Max



....but your anti-aircraft stuff is obsolete!:nono:

[Max]

....but your anti-aircraft stuff is obsolete!:nono:


Hi,
yes, right... it is... it's old stuff...

But consider that main target of F-14 things was protecting the more valuable carrier... in conventional warfare ...from e.g. Bears (Tupolev Tu-95 from former Soviet Union) in case of attack and 3rd world war... years when people belive in sudden change from "cold" to "hot" ! :D

The F-14 was, indeed, not designed to really survive to anti-aircraft missile from ground or enemy planes/ships (though they were successful employed in many scenarios like Lybia, and proved anti-aircraft countermeasures were right for that age, cause were actually provided to it during service).

The hidden role of F-14 : the main goal of F-14 tomcat was not just only carrier protection as one could think... but the launch of one nuclear anti-aircraft missile for destroing Soviet long range bombers, potentially carring nuclear cruise missiles, not only targeting the carrier, but US territory.

In some test was proved that the F-14 computer was indeed able to engage 6 of these aircraft targets at same time with conventional weapons/missiles... but that's not for nuclear war scenario.

In nuclear war scenario things are quite different and each F-14 had to carry one nuclear anti-aircraft missile (1.5 to 2 Kton) to destroy one bomber... ;) . That's it : 1:1.

The idea is from 50's ,against Tu-4 Bull stuff (B-29 clones) the first really working stuff like that was the AIR-2 "Genie" missile, developed for F-89 then adopted by e.g. F-104 starfighter... but had a number of evolutions till 80's when just a few planes can really drop one of these... and F-14 was a natural candidate, of course. :rolleyes:

So... sure, not updated anymore... F-14 tomcat have no updated anti-aircraft protection anymore... but today Navy have much better stuff flying around! :D

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Well, Max... it seems you have this entire LRL routine figured out rather well. I guess you've been down this road a time or two. :D

Hi,
I'm lucky... I know everything about that routine... but never spent a cent on them! :lol:

I like risk my money in some better way... e.g. buying PIZZA and beers... ;)

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Hi,
I'm lucky... I know everything about that routine... but never spent a cent on them! :lol:

I like risk my money in some better way... e.g. buying PIZZA and beers... ;)

Kind regards,
MaxUmmmm... Risk? What risk?
There is no bad pizza or beer. :cool:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Ummmm... Risk? What risk?
There is no bad pizza or beer. :cool:

Best wishes,
J_P

Hmmmm...

well... depends... I found many pizza clones... some are very good I must admit, much like something you can really find in Italy, Naples... but about rare clones like that. I spot one of these one time in London too... but I tasted also a number of very bad pizza stuff in London... and other places, a number of places in different countries.

As an example, in London I remember that indian's made pizza is usually sold in the streets... small places in very hot places in the city, important streets... also egyptian's pizza (that's usually not too bad)... and, of course, chinese's pizza clones (maybe the worse case scenario... bought just a couple of times... then I remember I felt strange after eating that things... so don't buy anymore, anywhere chinese pizza clones... not safe I think).
I also spotted some fake italian restaurants , they made pizza but not italian recipe, something between a small sized round pizza and some strange , exotic recipe from north africa places... bad cheese... bad tomatoes... just average product... if remember well it costs something 30 or 40 pounds in such place... always in the city.

I found in Amsterdam too... similar stuff... but avoided all chinese and other very bad clones...

Are no good to me.

About beers... well, in the US maybe all beers are good... probably is, I have no dubts cause I know quality is essential there... and FDA is really hard to pass for bad quality food products...

My experience in Europe is that if you order a beer in a pub or something... all fine, usually have just top products and quality stuff... not to say about places like Germany about that, all good things there.

But then... if you go buy to the equivalent of your WalMart (e.g. in Germany can consider Lidl chain like WalMart... you find cheap stuff... special prices etc) here in Europe you could be surprised how many BAD brands and products you can buy... and beer is not an exception.

Though I bought many very good and cheap beers at Lidl and similar places... some are BAD, but very BAD, bad taste... bad quality... even BAD cans! :rolleyes:

So... depends... could be a risk even in buying a pizza and some beers... if you go for cheap... ;)

That's why I usually buy at a serious price, and leave now "experiments" to others...:lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

The schematic posted only is a base, but with the helping of our "engineers" :lol: :lol: here can be improved!!! :razz: Maybe some expert in LRL-glue system can help here!!! :lol:

[Esteban]

Well, Max... it seems you have this entire LRL routine figured out rather well. I guess you've been down this road a time or two. :D

Ahhh!!! Do you believe that Max is capable to fall down in a trap twice, third, fourth, fifth... infinite times? :lol: :lol: You're a bad man!

[Esteban]

Why ?

I'm just talking of yours PALO ALTO studies and experiences...

I'm just observer of your "discoveries" ...:D

That's the most relevant secret about LRLs... you must connect to the right place to happen detection... as Mike(Mont) suggested...

You knew already... you're master of LRL and PALO ALTO's method! :razz:

Also, seems you don't suffer hemorrhoids anymore !

Miracles of LRLs! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

Not only an observer, but a bad replicator!!! :lol:

I see you're adorator of some forms as palo, missile... ever BIG!!! Your unconscious betrays you!!! Maybe Dr. Freud can cure your vice!!! :lol:

[Esteban]

Hi,
I'm lucky... I know everything about that routine... but never spent a cent on them! :lol:

I like risk my money in some better way... e.g. buying PIZZA and beers... ;)

Kind regards,
Max

Everybody knows your routine! :razz: :lol:

[Max]

Everybody knows your routine! :razz: :lol:

?
posting jokes in remote sensing ??? :D

Sure...

but my jokes always contain also truth...

LRLs don't work for c.r.a.p. ... it's a fact. :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Not only an observer, but a bad replicator!!! :lol:

I see you're adorator of some forms as palo, missile... ever BIG!!! Your unconscious betrays you!!! Maybe Dr. Freud can cure your vice!!! :lol:

Hi,
I prefer Dr. Hung... she has red hairs! :lol:

Unfortunately, she's too busy in debunkering... to cure me.... :rolleyes:

But, of course, I'd like to see on YouTube your PALO ALTO adventures... :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Clondike Clad]

The schematic posted only is a base, but with the helping of our "engineers" :lol: :lol: here can be improved!!! :razz: Maybe some expert in LRL-glue system can help here!!! :lol:
Do you think we are all fools.
Please tell us what the BASE is ?????????????????????????????????????
In all this time all we see are circuits that DON't WORK.
I don;t need to build DO NOTHING CIRCUITS/
NOW HOW FAR CAN THIS GO.
LOOK AT THIS CRAP.

Users are often amused by the scientific calculator attached to the unit. It is a breakthrough only Ranger-Tell has developed. The Ofki© (Omni Field Key Interpreter) concept which uses our unique diode system is connected via induction to the main circuitry inside the control box and outperforms units that are five times more expensive. Our competitors use bulky oscillation principles with too many expensive bells and whistles. Our techs deserve a science prize for this original concept. You can even choose feet or meters, miles or kilometers by pressing two keys.

THE SH!T IS VERY DEEP WITH THIS.
CARL DID GOOD BY MAKING THE RS FORUM.
SHOW A WORKING CIRCUIT AND STOP THE CRAP.
yEAR IN AND YEAR OUT BUT NO WORKING lrl THAT ANYONE CAN BUILD TO PICK UP A COIN AT 5 METERS OR MORE.

[J_Player]

Our competitors use bulky oscillation principles with too many expensive bells and whistles. Our techs deserve a science prize for this original concept. You can even choose feet or meters, miles or kilometers by pressing two keys.Hmmm...
I wonder what kind of science prize should RangerTell techs be given for their original concept?
Maybe they get a share of the money collected from buyers?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

The schematic posted only is a base, but with the helping of our "engineers" :lol: :lol: here can be improved!!! :razz: Maybe some expert in LRL-glue system can help here!!! :lol:

And, I suppose you are not trying to be funny here?????

"Base" schematics are a dime a dozen, and any one of us could find old magazines from the 1930s to rob schematics out of - then post as beginning LRL circuits.

I'm like C-Clad; we've had enough comedy! We've had enough old do-nothing schematics posted.

Where are the "real" LRL circuits/plans??? When does the debunkering begin?

[Esteban]

And, I suppose you are not trying to be funny here?????

"Base" schematics are a dime a dozen, and any one of us could find old magazines from the 1930s to rob schematics out of - then post as beginning LRL circuits.

I'm like C-Clad; we've had enough comedy! We've had enough old do-nothing schematics posted.

Where are the "real" LRL circuits/plans??? When does the debunkering begin?

This schematic I have since many years, somebody sent to me. I post a improved version with 50 Hz filter. Original use LM348. "Electrotactile" word made me think about this circuit and post in the forum as an indication of what was speaking. Only I want to help. This is not stamp sized, so, now, wich is the problem? My intention WAS to post the equalizer (TESTED) and beep generator (TESTED), this insume time for to drawing because any modification I translate in schematic made on computer... but what I can do now?

Remember that you always start the comedy, not me, just follow your style...

[Esteban]

Do you think we are all fools.
Please tell us what the BASE is ?????????????????????????????????????
In all this time all we see are circuits that DON't WORK.
I don;t need to build DO NOTHING CIRCUITS/
NOW HOW FAR CAN THIS GO.
LOOK AT THIS CRAP.

Users are often amused by the scientific calculator attached to the unit. It is a breakthrough only Ranger-Tell has developed. The Ofki© (Omni Field Key Interpreter) concept which uses our unique diode system is connected via induction to the main circuitry inside the control box and outperforms units that are five times more expensive. Our competitors use bulky oscillation principles with too many expensive bells and whistles. Our techs deserve a science prize for this original concept. You can even choose feet or meters, miles or kilometers by pressing two keys.

THE SH!T IS VERY DEEP WITH THIS.
CARL DID GOOD BY MAKING THE RS FORUM.
SHOW A WORKING CIRCUIT AND STOP THE CRAP.
yEAR IN AND YEAR OUT BUT NO WORKING lrl THAT ANYONE CAN BUILD TO PICK UP A COIN AT 5 METERS OR MORE.

Please, you are using things that I did not say.

[Esteban]

Esteban, thanks for the diagram, but I do not know enough about electronic circuits to understand what it does. It appears to be a receiver/amplifier. What sort of effect does it have on the user?

This is a low voltage amplifier. This have not effect on the operator because low voltage used. Is supossed that the dowser is very skill and go in area in wich show the antenna. The electronic indicators is for to confirm that the operator is correct in his indication, the electronic don't lead the operator in the site of the buried metal, just confirms that the operator is corredct in his appreciation.

[Theseus]

Remember that you always start the comedy, not me, just follow your style...

Point well taken..... however, because most everything posted here are incomplete, or base circuits, or partial schematics needing grand modifications, I guess it is just natural to find humor in it, since obviously even the poster is not completely serious with intent to provide a tried, tested and validated circuit/device. ;)

[J_Player]

Please, you are using things that I did not say.Hi Esteban,
It is true. You never said you can find treasure from pushing calculator keys. In fact. I never see any calculators on any of your LRL experiments. The LRL research you show is from mostly antique circuits modified to work as LRL.This is a low voltage amplifier. This have not effect on the operator because low voltage used. Is supossed that the dowser is very skill and go in area in wich show the antenna. The electronic indicators is for to confirm that the operator is correct in his indication, the electronic don't lead the operator in the site of the buried metal, just confirms that the operator is corredct in his appreciation.So you are saying the circuit you posted is an un-tested circuit that is designed to give a reading on a meter and make beeps when a signal is picked up. And these beeps and meter readings are to be used to confirm a dowser's sensing a signal by using an electronic instrument.

If I understand correctly, this is an electronic device used to test whether the dowser has found a signal or not by generating beeps and meter readings. However, you posted a circuit titled "Electrotactile Sensor Rods". The function you described is not an electrotactile sensor. The displayed signal is heard as beeps and seen as a meter movement. The rods in contact with the hands are not used for sensing the signal, but for input to the electronics.

This is not an electrotactile sensor as shown in the BrainPort. The purpose is not to provide sensory input for a person with disabled senses, but to confirm what a dowser thinks he is sensing. The output is a simple meter and beeper. But what complicates it is the input comes from three sources: rods in the operator's hands, an antenna with a sample chamber, and a resonant coil.

In the original circuit, these rods were used as a ground battery to generate a voltage to power an AM radio receiver similar to a crystal radio design. The modification you made uses a separate power supply to run the circuit, and the AM tuner is replaced by an op amp that has a whip antenna with a sample chamber and a copper hand-held rod connected between stages. There is also a non-specified "movable spiral resonant coil" which does not show a connection scheme, wire size, resonant frequency, or diameter. After the second stage of amplification, the signal is sent to the "Equalizer" (TESTED). But I see no circuitry for a tested equalizer, only a block diagram that says "Equalizer". I must conclude that Theseus is correct. Nobody can build this circuit you posted because there is too much missing.

I don't see how it is possible for anyone to complete a working model of what you posted unless they also have more information for how to wind the "movable spiral resonant coil" and tune it for the proper resonant frequency, and connect it to the detector. Then they also need a schematic for the "Equalizer" that shows component values and how to connect it to the wires shown, and the beeps generator too. When they have this missing information, then they will only need to know how to tune the machine and check it to insure it is properly tuned and working ok.

Until I see something that can be built, I will have to agree with Max and Theseus. This circuit is a do-nothing circuit for now.
Maybe it can be shown to do something if the missing infos are given.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi Esteban,
It is true. You never said you can find treasure from pushing calculator keys. In fact. I never see any calculators on any of your LRL experiments. The LRL research you show is from mostly antique circuits modified to work as LRL.So you are saying the circuit you posted is an un-tested circuit that is designed to give a reading on a meter and make beeps when a signal is picked up. And these beeps and meter readings are to be used to confirm a dowser's sensing a signal by using an electronic instrument.

If I understand correctly, this is an electronic device used to test whether the dowser has found a signal or not by generating beeps and meter readings. However, you posted a circuit titled "Electrotactile Sensor Rods". The function you described is not an electrotactile sensor. The displayed signal is heard as beeps and seen as a meter movement. The rods in contact with the hands are not used for sensing the signal, but for input to the electronics.

This is not an electrotactile sensor as shown in the BrainPort. The purpose is not to provide sensory input for a person with disabled senses, but to confirm what a dowser thinks he is sensing. The output is a simple meter and beeper. But what complicates it is the input comes from three sources: rods in the operator's hands, an antenna with a sample chamber, and a resonant coil.

In the original circuit, these rods were used as a ground battery to generate a voltage to power an AM radio receiver similar to a crystal radio design. The modification you made uses a separate power supply to run the circuit, and the AM tuner is replaced by an op amp that has a whip antenna with a sample chamber and a copper hand-held rod connected between stages. There is also a non-specified "movable spiral resonant coil" which does not show a connection scheme, wire size, resonant frequency, or diameter. After the second stage of amplification, the signal is sent to the "Equalizer" (TESTED). But I see no circuitry for a tested equalizer, only a block diagram that says "Equalizer". I must conclude that Theseus is correct. Nobody can build this circuit you posted because there is too much missing.

I don't see how it is possible for anyone to complete a working model of what you posted unless they also have more information for how to wind the "movable spiral resonant coil" and tune it for the proper resonant frequency, and connect it to the detector. Then they also need a schematic for the "Equalizer" that shows component values and how to connect it to the wires shown, and the beeps generator too. When they have this missing information, then they will only need to know how to tune the machine and check it to insure it is properly tuned and working ok.

Until I see something that can be built, I will have to agree with Max and Theseus. This circuit is a do-nothing circuit for now.
Maybe it can be shown to do something if the missing infos are given.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
the problem with Esteban is that he will never answer your questions, whatever you ask.

He like the role play game here... so he's always playing his personal old role of LRL master, where I think, instead, he has no real understand of what's posted... apart some simple schematic and some old radio.

Do you remember the "lightning" powered battery charger... sure... not his circuit... but why he posted that ?

Do you think he really understand what are dangers with that !? Or current values around ???

I think not.

He talks of potential... field gradient... etc... and also author of article do same way like him... but then ?
That showed us that both author and Esteban think they could charge a battery using so small current that in reality develops from air.

That's the interesting issue... he knows/read many things but fails at very basic considerations... so his "devices" can't work... will never work in real world.

He maybe thinks they work, and he's serious about LRL stuff... but sum some randomic beeps + strong feelings these "methods" are suitable + respect for his relative V. Alonso and we'll get the picture: LRLs work in his mind only... selective memory, self deception and all the rest.

Otherwise why he still say that Zahori works where many now made it (including me) and proved is another useless, do nothing thing...

Why he used MFD from elektor that's sensitive , ok, but he claims it's a working LRL too... and it isn't ?

Why claimed IR detector works and then once made, people laugh at results... zero results !?

Why also claimed PD made by Alonso works... then refuse to give help, informations, tuning procedures... say that he don't know about details... etc ??? And people made it and don't works too ???

He think all them work! Dot.

He's a beliver, not only experimenter... he belives these gizmoes work!
That's the funny thing...:lol:

Then... everything is a secret to him... and so posts just diagrams of no value... cause think there's something to protect from mass production and from chinese guys... :razz:

And it isn't !

So, do you really belive he will answer your questions now ?

It's the old comedy here... now will play the victim role also... cause of jokes and PALO ALTO stuff... all same stuff everytime... and we'll never see anything complete and "working" from him. :rolleyes:

Apart his imagination...;)

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Hi,
the problem with Esteban is that he will never answer your questions, whatever you ask.Hi Max,
Eseteban has answered my questions many times. Perhaps his answers didn't always have the information needed to complete a missing circuit part, but he answered. I think basic courtesy and respect is necessary if you expect to receive an answer. But I doubt there is any way to guarantee that you will receive the kind of answer you want. Why also claimed PD made by Alonso works... then refuse to give help, informations, tuning procedures... say that he don't know about details... etc ??? And people made it and don't works too ???Actually, some people who made it claimed it does work. You are aware that Morgan will be demonstrating this PD for Geo and maybe Putrechigi in the near future. When we see the reports from Geo and Putrechigi, we will have a better background of information to determine how well this PD works....He's a beliver, not only experimenter... he belives these gizmoes work!
That's the funny thing...:lol:

Then... everything is a secret to him... and so posts just diagrams of no value... cause think there's something to protect from mass production and from chinese guys... :razz:

And it isn't !

So, do you really belive he will answer your questions now ?

It's the old comedy here... now will play the victim role also... cause of jokes and PALO ALTO stuff... all same stuff everytime... and we'll never see anything complete and "working" from him. :rolleyes:

Apart his imagination...;)Why the missing circuit infos? Hmmm... Nobody knows.
At first I thought it was because he is trying to hide the details from prying eyes that might make a commercial production of these devices. But then it became obvious that there were plenty of opportunities for commercial exploitation, but I never see Chinese manufacturers selling LRLs from Esteban circuits like they sell models similar to good quality VLF detectors from USA and other places. I think maybe they discovered they cannot make the circuits from Esteban function properly, so it is not commercially profitable to sell them.

A second reason crossed my mind why Esteban does not give answers to details of circuits. I wonder if maybe he does not know the details. If these are experimental LRLs, then most of them become modified several times, and probably cannibalized to make newer designs. Maybe he does not keep records of each change that leads to the final version. Maybe not even the final version has a schematic until he spends the time to trace the segments of circuit boards he soldered together, and read the resistor values he changed out, count the windings on coils he rewound, etc.

But who knows what is the real reason Esteban does not post complete circuits without a lot of missing information? The point is he is not trying to show us how to build a working model of what he built. He is only trying to convince us that he has LRLs that really work.
So do they work?
Who knows? Unless you were one of the few people who built one of his designs or the PD that you discovered to work, you will never know. Of course, you could visit Morgan and watch him demonstrate the PD and other LRLs working in front of Geo and Putrechigi. Then you will see with your own eyes whether it works or not.

For now, Esteban and a few believers are convinced it works. It still reminds me of the old Santa Claus story. A small part of the younger population believes he is real, and have witnessed evidence of him leaving treasures for them, just as the story tells. They can even show old newspaper articles telling the facts about Santa and showing photos of him in the sky. For these people, Santa Clause is real, and really works. But these believers will have a hard time convincing the rest of us he is real until we are shown him in action doing as is claimed in the stories. (Most Santa skeptics will not believe an ordinary person dressed in a Santa suit is proof Santa is real -- they would also want to see the reindeers flying him across the sky in his sled, and him climbing through billions of chimneys to deliver presents before sunrise time on Christmas Eve).

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Hi,
the problem with Esteban is that he will never answer your questions, whatever you ask.

He like the role play game here... so he's always playing his personal old role of LRL master, where I think, instead, he has no real understand of what's posted... apart some simple schematic and some old radio.

Do you remember the "lightning" powered battery charger... sure... not his circuit... but why he posted that ?

Do you think he really understand what are dangers with that !? Or current values around ???

I think not.

He talks of potential... field gradient... etc... and also author of article do same way like him... but then ?
That showed us that both author and Esteban think they could charge a battery using so small current that in reality develops from air.

That's the interesting issue... he knows/read many things but fails at very basic considerations... so his "devices" can't work... will never work in real world.

He maybe thinks they work, and he's serious about LRL stuff... but sum some randomic beeps + strong feelings these "methods" are suitable + respect for his relative V. Alonso and we'll get the picture: LRLs work in his mind only... selective memory, self deception and all the rest.

Otherwise why he still say that Zahori works where many now made it (including me) and proved is another useless, do nothing thing...

Why he used MFD from elektor that's sensitive , ok, but he claims it's a working LRL too... and it isn't ?

Why claimed IR detector works and then once made, people laugh at results... zero results !?

Why also claimed PD made by Alonso works... then refuse to give help, informations, tuning procedures... say that he don't know about details... etc ??? And people made it and don't works too ???

He think all them work! Dot.

He's a beliver, not only experimenter... he belives these gizmoes work!
That's the funny thing...:lol:

Then... everything is a secret to him... and so posts just diagrams of no value... cause think there's something to protect from mass production and from chinese guys... :razz:

And it isn't !

So, do you really belive he will answer your questions now ?

It's the old comedy here... now will play the victim role also... cause of jokes and PALO ALTO stuff... all same stuff everytime... and we'll never see anything complete and "working" from him. :rolleyes:

Apart his imagination...;)

Kind regards,
Max

Complete lie!

1. Always I try to respond questions.

2. I'm not a LRL master, sure other it is. Radio is for to show how this can detect a buried metal buried for long time at some meters. Radio detect via RF and contain also audio amp. and is low in consumption. Simple and effective!

3. The lightning is only an ilustration, is not powered for any lightning. The article refers that is for use in indoor, no exposed to electrical storms. Here other example:

http://www.nuenergy.org/pdf/static-electricity-converter.pdf (http://www.nuenergy.org/pdf/static-electricity-converter.pdf)

4. Zahori works, but with the modified schematic, never I try the Ivconic version. Zahori don't need all the potentiometers and switch, you never are sure what you are regulating.

5. Do you see? Don't use Elektor's MFD, this was posted by Fred, you don't have memory. Remember: I use A. Flind's schematic. :nono:

6. Do you build an IR detector for LRL? I think no. This don't work only with radio, and you have dispossition of it, draw by me.

7. I refuse some information in consideration some attitude.

I'll post wireless stuff using PALO ALTO!

I have a question: I'm obligated to respond about what you want to know when you failed in your strategy? :nono: :nono:

Regards

[Max]

Complete lie!

1. Always I try to respond questions.

2. I'm not a LRL master, sure other it is. Radio is for to show how this can detect a buried metal buried for long time at some meters. Radio detect via RF and contain also audio amp. and is low in consumption. Simple and effective!

3. The lightning is only an ilustration, is not powered for any lightning. The article refers that is for use in indoor, no exposed to electrical storms. Here other example:

http://www.nuenergy.org/pdf/static-electricity-converter.pdf (http://www.nuenergy.org/pdf/static-electricity-converter.pdf)

4. Zahori works, but with the modified schematic, never I try the Ivconic version. Zahori don't need all the potentiometers and switch, you never are sure what you are regulating.

5. Do you see? Don't use Elektor's MFD, this was posted by Fred, you don't have memory. Remember: I use A. Flind's schematic. :nono:

6. Do you build an IR detector for LRL? I think no. This don't work only with radio, and you have dispossition of it, draw by me.

7. I refuse some information in consideration some attitude.

I'll post wireless stuff using PALO ALTO!

I have a question: I'm obligated to respond about what you want to know when you failed in your strategy? :nono: :nono:

Regards

Hi,
Hmmm... play victim role now... as explained above...:rolleyes:

Why some are not lies:

1. you answer to questions in elusive ways, people must make kind of own interpretation of your words, you're not clear, don't answer simple and plain way, or answer with other questions.
In few words you never clarify stuff... just add pieces to the puzzle and people instead of getting explaination found new questions and no real answers.

2. You are not LRL master ? Ok... assume that... but don't you built a number of these claimed working LRLs, don't you make maintenance and upgrades to them ? You wrote that... you showed pictures of that things... you claimed that can detect silver on the floor from distance etc not me.
You made all that, you claimed IR , as an example, as a different than Rf way to make working LRLs...
Big claims... big pictures of antennal aluminium loops etc then nothing about real, consistent design...
So are you LRL master or not !? Let people think by their own.
Then, if you wanna say that "master" is Alonso, and you're sub-master ok... but people here see you not him posting everyday about how well LRLs you made work.

3. That's the point. That's the relevant issue: you think can charge a battery with current antenna sucks from air!
I explained that's impossible in "human" time, but you still perseverate in that stuff...
If it's so easy getting free current from air... we'll have electric power production plants based on that!
Do you know of any ?
Current is too small... charge will require million years...
It's just a very stupid and non-working circuit.

4. Always modified schematic... ok... one pot... sure

5. Andy Flind's ok... then you posted about elektor MFD too... Geo made one of these stuff following your description... don't you remember ?

6. If not... what I have done following your instructions ? another do nothing circuit ?

7. victimism... you can post private if you want and just to people you trust... with "good" attitude...
Maybe I make too many jokes, maybe I'm not politically correct here... then what ?
Why don't you send to "good" attitude people plans for complete LRL ???
Neither good or bad attitude... you don't post anything complete or working, that's truth.

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Palo alto wireless –February 1905– (but palo alto must be alive): :lol:

[Max]

Palo alto wireless –February 1905– (but palo alto must be alive): :lol:

Living eucalyptus ??? :lol:

Are you a Koala ??? :rolleyes:

Bad imitation of REAL PALO ALTO...

Look and enjoy! :D

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Hi Max,
Eseteban has answered my questions many times. Perhaps his answers didn't always have the information needed to complete a missing circuit part, but he answered. I think basic courtesy and respect is necessary if you expect to receive an answer. But I doubt there is any way to guarantee that you will receive the kind of answer you want. Actually, some people who made it claimed it does work. You are aware that Morgan will be demonstrating this PD for Geo and maybe Putrechigi in the near future. When we see the reports from Geo and Putrechigi, we will have a better background of information to determine how well this PD works.Why the missing circuit infos? Hmmm... Nobody knows.
At first I thought it was because he is trying to hide the details from prying eyes that might make a commercial production of these devices. But then it became obvious that there were plenty of opportunities for commercial exploitation, but I never see Chinese manufacturers selling LRLs from Esteban circuits like they sell models similar to good quality VLF detectors from USA and other places. I think maybe they discovered they cannot make the circuits from Esteban function properly, so it is not commercially profitable to sell them.

A second reason crossed my mind why Esteban does not give answers to details of circuits. I wonder if maybe he does not know the details. If these are experimental LRLs, then most of them become modified several times, and probably cannibalized to make newer designs. Maybe he does not keep records of each change that leads to the final version. Maybe not even the final version has a schematic until he spends the time to trace the segments of circuit boards he soldered together, and read the resistor values he changed out, count the windings on coils he rewound, etc.

But who knows what is the real reason Esteban does not post complete circuits without a lot of missing information? The point is he is not trying to show us how to build a working model of what he built. He is only trying to convince us that he has LRLs that really work.
So do they work?
Who knows? Unless you were one of the few people who built one of his designs or the PD that you discovered to work, you will never know. Of course, you could visit Morgan and watch him demonstrate the PD and other LRLs working in front of Geo and Putrechigi. Then you will see with your own eyes whether it works or not.

For now, Esteban and a few believers are convinced it works. It still reminds me of the old Santa Claus story. A small part of the younger population believes he is real, and have witnessed evidence of him leaving treasures for them, just as the story tells. They can even show old newspaper articles telling the facts about Santa and showing photos of him in the sky. For these people, Santa Clause is real, and really works. But these believers will have a hard time convincing the rest of us he is real until we are shown him in action doing as is claimed in the stories. (Most Santa skeptics will not believe an ordinary person dressed in a Santa suit is proof Santa is real -- they would also want to see the reindeers flying him across the sky in his sled, and him climbing through billions of chimneys to deliver presents before sunrise time on Christmas Eve).

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P

You're right. Some "genius" kick out as bad-mannered children if you do not give them the toys. The unique manner for cure them are few blows.

[Max]

Hi J_P

You're right. Some "genius" kick out as bad-mannered children if you do not give them the toys. The unique manner for cure them are few blows.

I'm really scared...

Don't tell me... you'll send ninjas from Paraguay to kill me tonight...:cool: (using some long range teleport stuff I think)

Till that... can also be back drinking my beloved beers...:D

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Hi,
Hmmm... play victim role now... as explained above...:rolleyes:

Why some are not lies:

1. you answer to questions in elusive ways, people must make kind of own interpretation of your words, you're not clear, don't answer simple and plain way, or answer with other questions.
In few words you never clarify stuff... just add pieces to the puzzle and people instead of getting explaination found new questions and no real answers.

Yes, I respond very clearly, and if you keep many info I gove here, you'll demonstrate some intelligence.

2. You are not LRL master ? Ok... assume that... but don't you built a number of these claimed working LRLs, don't you make maintenance and upgrades to them ? You wrote that... you showed pictures of that things... you claimed that can detect silver on the floor from distance etc not me.
You made all that, you claimed IR , as an example, as a different than Rf way to make working LRLs...
Big claims... big pictures of antennal aluminium loops etc then nothing about real, consistent design...
So are you LRL master or not !? Let people think by their own.
Then, if you wanna say that "master" is Alonso, and you're sub-master ok... but people here see you not him posting everyday about how well LRLs you made work.

And so what? You can learn very much, because also I learn very much of other.

3. That's the point. That's the relevant issue: you think can charge a battery with current antenna sucks from air!
I explained that's impossible in "human" time, but you still perseverate in that stuff...
If it's so easy getting free current from air... we'll have electric power production plants based on that!
Do you know of any ?
Current is too small... charge will require million years...
It's just a very stupid and non-working circuit.

If I'm wrong in this, this no degradate all I have recordered and experimented in LRL fields, not in an atom only!

4. Always modified schematic... ok... one pot... sure

Every person modificate schematics.

5. Andy Flind's ok... then you posted about elektor MFD too... Geo made one of these stuff following your description... don't you remember ?

Don't remember if I have been posted Elektor MFD, show me.

6. If not... what I have done following your instructions ? another do nothing circuit ?

If you're a very intelligent, WHY DO YOU WISH TO REPLICATE THE NON-SENSE? RESPOND THIS. Why do you wish to replicate the experiments of a burro? CONCLUSION...

7. victimism... you can post private if you want and just to people you trust... with "good" attitude...
Maybe I make too many jokes, maybe I'm not politically correct here... then what ?
Why don't you send to "good" attitude people plans for complete LRL ???
Neither good or bad attitude... you don't post anything complete or working, that's truth.

Kind regards,
Max

Of course, good attitude is to respond many questions, infinite. You wish to understand infinitesimal calculation, but first you need to know basic operations, and basic operations are the PRINCIPLE.

FOR ME, YOU STAY IN LIE. Persons wich arrive at this forum read your lies about me, but no take the job reading posts since 2001 or after. So I'm the liar and you're the owner of the truth. THAT'S THE TRUTH!

I AM NOT READY TO GIVE AN ALONE STEP BACKWARDS!

Esteban

[Max]

Hi,
Hmmm... play victim role now... as explained above...:rolleyes:

Why some are not lies:

1. you answer to questions in elusive ways, people must make kind of own interpretation of your words, you're not clear, don't answer simple and plain way, or answer with other questions.
In few words you never clarify stuff... just add pieces to the puzzle and people instead of getting explaination found new questions and no real answers.

Yes, I respond very clearly, and if you keep many info I gove here, you'll demonstrate some intelligence.

2. You are not LRL master ? Ok... assume that... but don't you built a number of these claimed working LRLs, don't you make maintenance and upgrades to them ? You wrote that... you showed pictures of that things... you claimed that can detect silver on the floor from distance etc not me.
You made all that, you claimed IR , as an example, as a different than Rf way to make working LRLs...
Big claims... big pictures of antennal aluminium loops etc then nothing about real, consistent design...
So are you LRL master or not !? Let people think by their own.
Then, if you wanna say that "master" is Alonso, and you're sub-master ok... but people here see you not him posting everyday about how well LRLs you made work.

And so what? You can learn very much, because also I learn very much of other.

3. That's the point. That's the relevant issue: you think can charge a battery with current antenna sucks from air!
I explained that's impossible in "human" time, but you still perseverate in that stuff...
If it's so easy getting free current from air... we'll have electric power production plants based on that!
Do you know of any ?
Current is too small... charge will require million years...
It's just a very stupid and non-working circuit.

If I'm wrong in this, this no degradate all I have recordered and experimented in LRL fields, not in an atom only!

4. Always modified schematic... ok... one pot... sure

Every person modificate schematics.

5. Andy Flind's ok... then you posted about elektor MFD too... Geo made one of these stuff following your description... don't you remember ?

Don't remember if I have been posted Elektor MFD, show me.

6. If not... what I have done following your instructions ? another do nothing circuit ?

If you're a very intelligent, WHY DO YOU WISH TO REPLICATE THE NON-SENSE? RESPOND THIS. Why do you wish to replicate the experiments of a burro? CONCLUSION...

7. victimism... you can post private if you want and just to people you trust... with "good" attitude...
Maybe I make too many jokes, maybe I'm not politically correct here... then what ?
Why don't you send to "good" attitude people plans for complete LRL ???
Neither good or bad attitude... you don't post anything complete or working, that's truth.

Kind regards,
Max

Of course, good attitude is to respond many questions, infinite. You wish to understand infinitesimal calculation, but first you need to know basic operations, and basic operations are the PRINCIPLE.

FOR ME, YOU STAY IN LIE. Persons wich arrive at this forum read your lies about me, but no take the job reading posts since 2001 or after. So I'm the liar and you're the owner of the truth. THAT'S THE TRUTH!

I AM NOT READY TO GIVE AN ALONE STEP BACKWARDS!

Esteban

Hmmmm...

I think then your teleport is out of service... :lol:

Hope you'll fix it sooner or later... cause otherwise... I'll drink too many beers till your ninjas arrive here... :rolleyes:

You know... too beers... mean calories... and I wanna stay in shape...

About lies... you made big claims...
Big claims, everybody knows, need big demonstrations, explainations, facts... but I don't remember of any of these in the near past...

I think people here don't need reading whole posts from 2001 to understand that many posts you made are a total BURRO's nonsense. :D

Of course, I'm talking of people who have a bit of electronic knowledge and physics understanding... not general , average user...

Some "average" belive in LRL... but it's kind of faith act... they belive cause wanna belive! :cool:

No proofs... no facts... just belifs and faith... seems a religion.

And you seem a bishop of that religion of LRL.

Now that you're mininstry of cult... and maybe also kiss LRLs-Pope's ring can you please start some serious (ah!) discussion on the basics of your cult... apart buzzers... wood-boxes and old MDs I mean... :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Hmmmm...

I think then your teleport is out of service... :lol:

Hope you'll fix it sooner or later... cause otherwise... I'll drink too many beers till your ninjas arrive here... :rolleyes:

You know... too beers... mean calories... and I wanna stay in shape...

About lies... you made big claims...
Big claims, everybody knows, need big demonstrations, explainations, facts... but I don't remember of any of these in the near past...

I think people here don't need reading whole posts from 2001 to understand that many posts you made are a total BURRO's nonsense. :D

Of course, I'm talking of people who have a bit of electronic knowledge and physics understanding... not general , average user...

Some "average" belive in LRL... but it's kind of faith act... they belive cause wanna belive! :cool:

No proofs... no facts... just belifs and faith... seems a religion.

And you seem a bishop of that religion of LRL.

Now that you're mininstry of cult... and maybe also kiss LRLs-Pope's ring can you please start some serious (ah!) discussion on the basics of your cult... apart buzzers... wood-boxes and old MDs I mean... :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

Of course, imagine if "normal" you wrote barbarities in all parts ... with beer...

But a person wich changes 30 times his avatar is not normal...

If you don't understand yet: why do you wish replicate burro's non-senses? An "intelligent" person like you who discuss with burros is the BIG BURRO... or not? :lol:

"Of course, I'm talking of people who have a bit of electronic knowledge and physics understanding... not general , average user..." :lol:

So, what do you're doing here... go in serious forum of your "level". :lol:

But I have my doubts: I remember that you use 100 solvents for to clean PCBs and somebody told you that the simple solution is isopropilic alcohol... so how you pretend to solve LRL questions if you can't solve simple things? :lol:

Regards

Esteban

[detectoman]

the hope is what, wtb, soon morgan and geo and putrechigi, go put stop to max interminable discusions whit the succes tries of pd, this is one great new
then all back to natural calm
i await fiu.. morgan soon!