Treasure gas is dangerous !!!

[humhum]

:shocked:Why treasure gas is dangerous and how will protect ??? .

[J_Player]

:shocked:Why treasure gas is dangerous and how will protect ??? .Hi Humhum,
Why Treasure gas is dangerous?
There are poisonous gasses in the ground especially where you find long-time buried metals. In the case of gold, we an expect to find cyanide and hydrogen sulfide among other toxic gases. The reason is because the gold is corroding due to the action of microbes that excrete cyanide and low molecular weight organic acids that contain sulfur. The result is to dissolve some of the gold from the surface of the metal, and suspend it in the sulfur complexes as it slowly migrates to the surface of the ground. There is a column of these gold ions and cyanide and sulfur complex in the soil that extends from the surface to the depth of the buried gold. Do some of the cyanides and sulfur complex combine with local hydrogen ions to become HCN or H2S? You bet they do! These gasses are abundant in the ground where long time metal is corroding. Have you ever smelled hydrogen cyanide, or hydrogen sulfide gas? Smelling them can kill you. An effective method to protect yourself from death is to wear a gas mask.

Deep tunnels in gold mines have elaborate ventilation systems and emergency gas masks on hand to protect the personnel. In treasure hunting, these gasses are not usually a problem for recovering treasures that are less than a meter deep. At shallow depths the small amount of toxic gasses will usually dissipate in the wind. But for deep treasures, it is wise to take a gas mask. Here is what Michael said about toxic gas precautions relating to his treasure hunting experience: "Here the only reason I reflected my experience and information was to help a guy and give him/her alarm of danger, a very very serious danger like another thing I tell now; any massive treasure searcher need to tools like especial gas-masks plus appropriate filters which be able to absorb some organic and inorganic gases particularly cyanides , H2S. and there are many more points with details if be necessary"
From: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=93540&postcount=90

Take care with your treasure hunts.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi Humhum,
Why Treasure gas is dangerous?
There are poisonous gasses in the ground especially where you find long-time buried metals. In the case of gold, we an expect to find cyanide and hydrogen sulfide among other toxic gases. The reason is because the gold is corroding due to the action of microbes that excrete cyanide and low molecular weight organic acids that contain sulfur. The result is to dissolve some of the gold from the surface of the metal, and suspend it in the sulfur complexes as it slowly migrates to the surface of the ground. There is a column of these gold ions and cyanide and sulfur complex in the soil that extends from the surface to the depth of the buried gold. Do some of the cyanides and sulfur complex combine with local hydrogen ions to become HCN or H2S? You bet they do! These gasses are abundant in the ground where long time metal is corroding. Have you ever smelled hydrogen cyanide, or hydrogen sulfide gas? Smelling them can kill you. An effective method to protect yourself from death is to wear a gas mask.

Deep tunnels in gold mines have elaborate ventilation systems and emergency gas masks on hand to protect the personnel. In treasure hunting, these gasses are not usually a problem for recovering treasures that are less than a meter deep. At shallow depths the small amount of toxic gasses will usually dissipate in the wind. But for deep treasures, it is wise to take a gas mask. Here is what Michael said about toxic gas precautions relating to his treasure hunting experience: "Here the only reason I reflected my experience and information was to help a guy and give him/her alarm of danger, a very very serious danger like another thing I tell now; any massive treasure searcher need to tools like especial gas-masks plus appropriate filters which be able to absorb some organic and inorganic gases particularly cyanides , H2S. and there are many more points with details if be necessary"
From: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=93540&postcount=90

Take care with your treasure hunts.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
hmmmm... what's that story now ???
Treasure gas ??? And it's dangerous ???:lol:

It's an old story... good for boyscouts I think... :rolleyes:

I think the origin of it is about some egytian discoveries... and one in particular: Tutankhamun's tomb discovery and was a big treasure there...

When Howard Carter's team found it... they broke the seals around the stone block used as "door" to the tomb in a false wall stuff... then they let the air from inside evacuate in free air in the entrance pit... that was for a night or so... then they look inside and finally enter the tomb to recover stuff.

Now... they let "old" air from inside mix with fresh air cause was a common practice people from there (treasure hunters) developed to avoid side effects... like sudden deaths occasionally occurring to treasure hunters of old egypt.
Was , indeed, a good practice... and also used today when very old sealed tomb is found... cause gases from inside (both natural/ground-generated and decomposition related) could be truly toxic stuff and require ventilation to disperse them to safe levels.

What they didn't realize... is that some gases are heavy and heavier than others and tend to build-up in closed environments , expecially underground : radon , a radioactive noble gas due to uranium decay and naturally occurring in many places in the world is a potential killer... cause can be inhaled and people can get a massive dose of radiation to sensitive lungs tissue... with potentially lethal effects at higher doses.
Other gases can be related to decomposition of organic tissue like not only people but also e.g. ducks (yes! ducks!) cause the king have a huge number of them buried in his tomb (maybe thousands of them) and other organic stuff. It's e.g. carbonium monoxide (they used candles also to detect it... if candles don't burn... you know why... too much of it in the air, and also small birds as poisonous "gas-detectors" ...like in WWI or old mines... if they suddenly die... you know must escape from there VERY fast).
Then ,also, last but not least fungus stuff... microscopic fungi spores... some are highly pathogenic to e.g. lungs and can easy kill a person if spores are inhaled. Some can resist some thousands years buried in the hot of Egypt and come back to life when conditions are good enough... like new humidity or an host available tissue e.g. skin or again... lungs to let them grow as fungi.

So... it was probably in their case a mix of all them... and someone suffered and died for that stuff very easy in such climatic/hygenic conditions.

But... c'mon guys... how often you see mummies in your THing trips ??? :lo

It's a risk in some places... e.g. some south american countries... cause there are many... but very often the mummies are in open spaces... with fresh air around...

In some cases they are buried in pits (e.g. Peru sites...) but it's rare you'll really see one.

Apart that very rare cases treasure have no gas... apart farts from some LRL-pretenders infesting all south america! :D

Kind regards,
Max

[Theseus]

Cyanide gas from buried gold?

Hmmmm… I’ve heard a lot of (first hand) stories from some old gold miners that worked in the early Homestake Mine, and I don’t recall any of them mentioning deaths due to cyanide gas.

My grandfather spent a major part of his “short” life underground mining coal. They used canaries to detect “bad air”. Seems the canaries would act funny or just fall over in their cages if there was a hint of “bad air”, long before it was dangerous to humans – giving the miners ample warning to get out. Grandfather was killed in a coal mine, not from bad air, but from a huge piece of slate falling on him. Crushed most of his body, but left him talking and conscious for a few hours.

General Y a m a s h i t a secreted a lot of gold and jewels in the Philippine Islands during WWII. Many of those deposits were protected with various types of booby traps, some of which were cyanide bombs and grenades. I guess in that case, treasure hunting for Y a m a s h i t a gold could get you killed – by cyanide.

I once visited a chemical plant in Texas that was making cyanide. Lots of precautions in that plant, and yes workers had been killed in that plant from careless exposure. Why would you need large quantities of cyanide? Well, cyanide is used among other things for cracking petroleum products especially in the manufacture of styrene plastics.

In another chemical plant, I was investigating control room instrumentation that was being eaten up (and failing) due to hydrogen sulphide in the control room air. There was no mention of any operators suffering ill effects from the H2S, but apparently it was concentrated enough to eat some of the unprotected portions of a few copper printed circuit boards. If just smelling H2S can kill you, then most of the paper mills in this country would have been put out of business decades ago.

[humhum]

Hi Humhum,
Why Treasure gas is dangerous?
There are poisonous gasses in the ground especially where you find long-time buried metals. In the case of gold, we an expect to find cyanide and hydrogen sulfide among other toxic gases. The reason is because the gold is corroding due to the action of microbes that excrete cyanide and low molecular weight organic acids that contain sulfur. The result is to dissolve some of the gold from the surface of the metal, and suspend it in the sulfur complexes as it slowly migrates to the surface of the ground. There is a column of these gold ions and cyanide and sulfur complex in the soil that extends from the surface to the depth of the buried gold. Do some of the cyanides and sulfur complex combine with local hydrogen ions to become HCN or H2S? You bet they do! These gasses are abundant in the ground where long time metal is corroding. Have you ever smelled hydrogen cyanide, or hydrogen sulfide gas? Smelling them can kill you. An effective method to protect yourself from death is to wear a gas mask.

Deep tunnels in gold mines have elaborate ventilation systems and emergency gas masks on hand to protect the personnel. In treasure hunting, these gasses are not usually a problem for recovering treasures that are less than a meter deep. At shallow depths the small amount of toxic gasses will usually dissipate in the wind. But for deep treasures, it is wise to take a gas mask. Here is what Michael said about toxic gas precautions relating to his treasure hunting experience: "Here the only reason I reflected my experience and information was to help a guy and give him/her alarm of danger, a very very serious danger like another thing I tell now; any massive treasure searcher need to tools like especial gas-masks plus appropriate filters which be able to absorb some organic and inorganic gases particularly cyanides , H2S. and there are many more points with details if be necessary"
From: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=93540&postcount=90

Take care with your treasure hunts.

Best wishes,
J_P


J_Player . Thanks for info .

[J_Player]

Cyanide gas from buried gold?

Hmmmm… I’ve heard a lot of (first hand) stories from some old gold miners that worked in the early Homestake Mine, and I don’t recall any of them mentioning deaths due to cyanide gas.

My grandfather spent a major part of his “short” life underground mining coal. They used canaries to detect “bad air”. Seems the canaries would act funny or just fall over in their cages if there was a hint of “bad air”, long before it was dangerous to humans – giving the miners ample warning to get out. Grandfather was killed in a coal mine, not from bad air, but from a huge piece of slate falling on him. Crushed most of his body, but left him talking and conscious for a few hours.

General Y a m a s h i t a secreted a lot of gold and jewels in the Philippine Islands during WWII. Many of those deposits were protected with various types of booby traps, some of which were cyanide bombs and grenades. I guess in that case, treasure hunting for Y a m a s h i t a gold could get you killed – by cyanide.

I once visited a chemical plant in Texas that was making cyanide. Lots of precautions in that plant, and yes workers had been killed in that plant from careless exposure. Why would you need large quantities of cyanide? Well, cyanide is used among other things for cracking petroleum products especially in the manufacture of styrene plastics.

In another chemical plant, I was investigating control room instrumentation that was being eaten up (and failing) due to hydrogen sulphide in the control room air. There was no mention of any operators suffering ill effects from the H2S, but apparently it was concentrated enough to eat some of the unprotected portions of a few copper printed circuit boards. If just smelling H2S can kill you, then most of the paper mills in this country would have been put out of business decades ago.Hi Theseus,
It is correct that coal miners used canaries to warn them of bad air in advance. However, you are talking about a coal mine where there is an abundance of organic material to be mined ie: carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. The kinds of poison gasses found in most coal mines are methane, CO, and CO2. While they are not completely toxic,. yhey do displace oxygen which is needed to support life. And CO can cause hypoxia by extracting the available oxygen from your blood, leaving you unconscious to die in the oxygen depleted air. Methane also presents a major fire an explosion hazard.

A gold mine is different in that it has corroding metal in it. This metal is corroding by the action of microbes which excrete cyanide that dissolves the gold. But this is true for other metals as well, such as silver, zinc, copper, etc. We also find these microbes producing NaCN or KCN to dissolve these metals. Once in solution with ground water, these salts easily liberate HCN gas, which is very toxic. See below:

Properties and Characteristics of Sodium Cyanide (NaCN)
Physical State; Appearance
- White, hygroscopic crystalline powder, with characteristic odour. Odourless when dry.
- Cyanide solutions readily bond with gold, silver and other metals
- Usually stored and transported as a solid. It is stable when dry.
- Dissolve in water to produce toxic cyanide gas. HCN (Hydrogen Cyanide)
- Cyanide may also result in deforestation, soil erosion, land slides, and contamination of underground water.One teaspoon of a 2% solution can kill a person.
- The substance decomposes rapidly on contact with acids, and slowly on contact with water, moisture or carbon dioxide producing hydrogen cyanide
- Cyanide is a powerful solvent that breaks down heavy metals – such as mercury, cadmium, chromium, and lead – that end up as waste products that need to be dumped.
Chemical Dangers
- One teaspoon of a 2% solution can kill a person.
- Cyanide is highly toxic, rapidly acting, potentially deadly chemical
- The substance can be absorbed into the body by inhalation, through the skin and by ingestion.
- Prevents the cells of the body from using oxygen. When this happens, the cells die.
- Causea effect on the cellular respiration, resulting in convulsions and unconsciousness

- More harmful to the heart and brain than to other organs because the heart and brain use a lot of oxygen.
- 20ppm/ per cubic meter in air (mg/m3)
- Cyanide is the killing agent used in gas chambers.
- When the density of HCN is 20 ppm, after few hours human will experience symptoms of poison dead
- Total Cyanide composition on surface water must not be more then 0.2mg/L, when the Cyanide composition is more than 0.5mg/L, 20% of the fish will be dead in two hours, all fish will be dead in 24 hours.
- Notorious chemical weapons used in Second World War, has been widely used by Nazi in the detention facilities and channel the gas to chamber which is a counterfeit bath room. The weapon has kill millions of Jews.
- Has been considered potential terrorist weapon.
- Potassium Cyanide has been used in mercy killing. Subject will be dead in 10 seconds after the drug has been injected or taken via oral.

H2S can kill you from smelling it if you smell it enough. The strong smell of rotten eggs is enough warning to cause most people to leave the area.

I would expect to find some H2S gas at coal mines due to the sulfur content of coal. But I do not expect to find HCN gas in coal mines in substantial amounts because the bacteria and other microbes that produce it tend to live where there is buried metal, not buried coal or other organic stuff. These microbes depend on metal to support their life, so their colonies tend to grow where the metal is.

There are also other hazards in recovering deep buried treasure, such as cave-ins, explosions, and other thngs. Michael has more experience in this area.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

H2S can kill you from smelling it if you smell it enough. The strong smell of rotten eggs is enough warning to cause most people to leave the area.

Best wishes,
J_P

I can only assume you've never been around one of the many paper mills in the US. There is a constant smell of H2S around kraft paper mills, yet there is no pile of dead bodies around the plants... from the smell.

Smelling it and ingesting lethal amounts of it are two different things.

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has set an acceptable ceiling limit for hydrogen sulfide of 20 parts hydrogen sulfide per 1 million parts of air (20 ppm) in the workplace.

The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) recommends a 10-minute ceiling limit of 10 ppm in the workplace.

Internet source; Hydrogen sulfide (H2S) occurs naturally in crude petroleum, natural gas, volcanic gases, and hot springs. It can also result from bacterial breakdown of organic matter. It is also produced by human and animal wastes. Bacteria found in your mouth and gastrointestinal tract produce hydrogen sulfide from bacteria decomposing materials that contain vegetable or animal proteins. Hydrogen sulfide can also result from industrial activities, such as food processing, coke ovens, kraft paper mills, tanneries, and petroleum refineries.

Hydrogen sulfide is a flammable, colorless gas with a characteristic odor of rotten eggs. It is commonly known as hydrosulfuric acid, sewer gas, and stink damp. People can smell it at low levels.

[homefire]

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo160/berquistj/ufo_1-1.gif That's what you gotta worry about!

[J_Player]

The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) recommends a 10-minute ceiling limit of 10 ppm in the workplace.Yes, I have worked for a number of years at Idaho Pacific, Kimberly Clark and several other paper mills in the northwest USA. My job was to take whatever measures were necessary to insure that the emissions from these mills did not reach the danger levels as defined by the EPA, OSHA, and other regulating agencies in the area at that time. The H2S in the air is not generally dangerous because it is not concentrated as it is in some mine shafts. When you smell the "egg" smell in the entire city of Lewiston, Idaho, you are smelling only traces of H2S that produce a noticeable odor long before it becomes a hazard. But in a mine shaft, even traces of gas odor are an indicator that there may be other more hazardous gases such as CO, or HCN which can kill very quickly. And these mine shaft gases are not blowing and mingling with the wind to become trace amounts. If you plan to spend some time in a tunnel with unknown amounts of H2S, HCN, CO, CO2 and CH4, then it is wise to take safety precautions such as a gas mask and safety line so a helper can pull you out if you lose consciousness.

You can read a lot of stories of dead bodies in these confined spaces associated with mines by typing into Google [ "toxic gas" gold mine ]. The deaths range from fires from methane explosions, suffocation, cave-ins, etc. Loss of consciousness from oxygen deprivation due to CO2 can leave you laying on the ground, breathing CO2 or other gases until you finally die from lack of oxygen. I remember a jobsite I was on where some workers were heliarc welding some stainless steel for a few hours in a 15-feet deep pit. After about the fourth hour, they were all unconscious. The cause was they were breathing argon, an inert non-toxic gas which accumulated in the pit and displaced the air. It was nice that there were others above who went town and dragged them up to the surface where they could breath fresh air and regain consciousness. Otherwise, they may have become dead bodies.

But treasure hunting may be different, Maybe it would be good to ask Michael if you want to know the specific problems he experienced with toxic gasses while excavating deep treasures that made him adopt the policy of using gas masks with filters to absorb HCN and H2S.



p.s. Homefire: I don't recall ever witnessing problems with space alien abductions at any of these paper mills or other jobsites. But I did witness a number of life-threatening hazards due to inadequate air supply and toxic gases.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

http://www.worldwar2treasure.com/history.html

Apparently Bob Curtis was pretty lucky, not being overcome with some type of toxic gas or booby trap, and yet having been so involved with the many recoveries as outlined in the story above.

There is a lot more to the story of what Bob did than just what is printed on this site, but it touches on the high points. 8)

[J_Player]

http://www.worldwar2treasure.com/history.html

Apparently Bob Curtis was pretty lucky, not being overcome with some type of toxic gas or booby trap, and yet having been so involved with the many recoveries as outlined in the story above.

There is a lot more to the story of what Bob did than just what is printed on this site, but it touches on the high points. 8)Hi Theseus,
This is a fascinating story. Most interesting.

You are correct... He was not overcome by toxic gases or booby traps. My opinion is that everyone should take whatever precautions that they think are prudent. If you think no precautions are necessary, and the result is no problem, then you got a good working method. The only reason I made any post about the gas hazards is because somebody asked to know what hazardous gases are associated with treasure hunting. If you want to be cautious, then you will ask Michael what problems he experienced, and perhaps take precautions. If you think it is unnecessary, then go dig your treasure! :)

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo160/berquistj/ufo_1-1.gif That's what you gotta worry about!


Nothing bad, two competing treasure seekers less.

[Max]

Hi Theseus,
This is a fascinating story. Most interesting.

You are correct... He was not overcome by toxic gases or booby traps. My opinion is that everyone should take whatever precautions that they think are prudent. If you think no precautions are necessary, and the result is no problem, then you got a good working method. The only reason I made any post about the gas hazards is because somebody asked to know what hazardous gases are associated with treasure hunting. If you want to be cautious, then you will ask Michael what problems he experienced, and perhaps take precautions. If you think it is unnecessary, then go dig your treasure! :)

Best wishes,
J_P


Hi,
Hmmm... some gases or... well aerosols were intentionally created to protect the treasures against treasure hunters and thiefs.

How ? Easy... was common practice in the Middle Age due to some very clever manuscripts made by islamic authors also...

at that time there was clear some very poisonous plants/herbs/minerals could be added to treasure caches to protect from unwanted people...;)

The practice... along with other "mechanical" or "hydraulic" traps was really common in Europe in middle age.

It was by fine powders and "baths" of jewels , gold etc... chemical powders and chemical baths.

One of the most used poison was arsenic , usually a compound of yellow-red sulfide highly toxic.

They used powdered sulfide mixed with other natural compounds sometimes vegetable resins and very frequently plants additives , also poisonous.

The additives were employed both for toxicity and for making a good bond with treated materials (e.g. gold) like a very thin layer of glue.

Even eggs found a place in such preparations...

Sometimes the trap included a wooden or iron box full of that powdered stuff and glued on surfaces, as well as gold pieces covered by them. Sometimes internal finitures of box contained a mechanism to spread powders and poisonous emanations when box was opened by untrained people.

There were three primary source of poisoning : inhalation of powders and gases, skin contact and ingestion of small quantities of poison.

The effects, of course, were devastating... people after opening such a thing without required precautions will start in a few time (even minutes) to have simptoms of arsenic poisoning along with a number of variants due to the additives.
Usually the amount of venoms and poisonous material stored along with treasure was thousand times the volume required to kill a man! :lol:

That cause the "engineers" of past... when designing such places, traps and treasure boxes were induced in killing thiefs by these means as best protection strategy for the treasures.

The thiefs could also possibly locate the treasure and survive to mechanical or hydraulic traps... but they will die by poisoning after handling the stuff without knowing about the risks.

Indeed, the idea was so really efficient in such a purpose that many of these treasures are still in their place today. :D

So... if you find an old map... or a secret way to some underground tunnel be really careful... and make serious investigations before make attempts...cause these things can kill you exactly as they were buried yesterday and not 1000years ago.:rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Hi,
Hmmm... some gases or... well aerosols were intentionally created to protect the treasures against treasure hunters and thiefs.Hmmmm....
.... Treasure hunters are thiefs.
Well, that explains it!
It serves them right to die.
Dang thiefs!

[Max]

Hmmmm....
.... Treasure hunters are thiefs.
Well, that explains it!
It serves them right to die.
Dang thiefs!

Hi,
well... maybe yes... THunters are thiefs... or maybe not. :rolleyes:

The fact is that untill someone will show his property right on something... direct or indirect... I can safely assume that what I've found is mine!
I found it... not some silly serious-posing charlatan that then will make also some books (for other next generation of charlatans) to read about how he discovered this and that.

Consider big discoveries of the past...

Don't you think that many and many archeo-guys of past act just plain like treasure hunters ??? :D

In recent years that's impossible... but think at past... don't e.g. British Museum acquired much stuff from Egypt, Iraq, Greece, Italy and many other places in the world buying that things from thiefs and local treasure hunters ??? :razz:

Don't you know that many US based museums bought masterpieces from all around the world and still show them just cause they feed by dollars (actually few in most cases) other countries thiefs and treasure hunters ? :rolleyes:

And don't you realize that many official archeo-guys played that game very very much and spent big money and efforts just to stole these masterpieces from other countries and show in their own country ??? :razz:

Think e.g. at Wallis Budge and Ani's papyrus ? don't he bought from thiefs ? Wasn't him a thief ? Didn't export the thing out of any rule , law and ethics in UK ?

Think e.g. at Schliemann's discovery of Troy in Turkey... don't he illegally exported the Priam's treasure in Greece to bring it to Germany ???
Think at how many treasure hunters from UK, France, Germany etc playd that game and for so many years !:cool:

Don't you know Greece still now claims for Parthenon pieces to be returned from London ? Don't you know that Italy still claims from pieces that are in the US and other places , bought also in 80's and 90's ? Don't you know that Turkey wants back some Troy artifacts ???
And what about Iraq ??? Saddam Hussein "asked" many times for the return of VERY important pieces there... and you know what ??? British Museum make big laughs! :lol:

That's reality... we live in a world of thiefs!

So , why a "local" treasure hunter must be considered as a thief and people from museums that bid for that same stuff in Munchen or Berlin or London don't ???

After all... nobody apart the original owner HAVE RIGHTS on these pieces... that's the truth. And I prefer a treasure hunter... that maybe search where official archeo-guys say there's nothing... and found something good...
(think at Shliemann again... and how he was ridiculized all his life by official archeo-heros of that time... till HE FOUND TROY, Mycenae etc... all "unimportant" sites :razz:... and today he's celebrated as a true genius and people who ridiculized him are forgotten forever as a pi$$ in the ocean).

You see also recently... Nebra's skydisk was found by THunters ...where official archeo-guys play their role of discovering what ??? Nothing. :rolleyes:

They found , with the help of german police, what OTHERS found... and wanna sell.

They are the today's pi$$ in the ocean.

Now... think at Egypt... and professor Zahi Awass... that I respect for the undubtable culture and experience in Egypt stuff BUT... don't you notice that something is missed ???:rolleyes:

Why Egypt that's full of STUFF (and what kind of stuff, man!) doesn't provide new important discoveries in last years ???
Why no big news ??? Have you ever asked yourself ???

I have...

And my conclusion is people like professor Awass are VERY GOOD for preservation of sites and treasures... BUT once they are already FOUND!

I mean... they are not good in search aspect of the story... not like decades ago... today these people is too "indoctrinated" by modern archaeology... that tell you must dig with a camel-butthairs-brush and scoop! :lol:

Do you think Shliemann found Troy... sweeping some camel-butthairs-brush and scoop ??? :razz:

No... he read classics... he spent money... he paid local treasure hunters to dig in Turkey and endly the team dig enough deep to find the Priam's treasure... not to write some book for next-generation of do nothing (apart brushing sand) archaelogists. :rolleyes:

Here's the truth demistified... the so called "treasure hunters" made REAL discoveries... and today's brilliant burocrats, called "archaelogists", spend their life for a job of guardians of what WAS discovered...and secured in museums... cause they lose any inclination to real , on field search... too books read and too few shovels in hand and sweat under the sun.

So think twice... who are the thiefs ?

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Maybe pure gold is not poisonous. The problem is that big treasure consist in gold 18, 14, 16, copper coins, silver coins 925, bronze, etc., gold mixed with other metals. Here the poison is the verdigris. Is dangerous when you smell accidentally in hole of treasures of caves wich contain it. So, this bad odor is "the gas". Also, for this motive is not a good idea cooking in copper recipients...

Maybe, if you're a treasure hunter "Ã* la beachcomber" you never will be poisoned...

[Max]

Maybe pure gold is not poisonous. The problem is that big treasure consist in gold 18, 14, 16, copper coins, silver coins 925, bronze, etc., gold mixed with other metals. Here the poison is the verdigris. Is dangerous when you smell accidentally in hole of treasures of caves wich contain it. So, this bad odor is "the gas". Also, for this motive is not a good idea cooking in copper recipients...

Maybe, if you're a treasure hunter "Ã* la beachcomber" you never will be poisoned...

This was never a problem... just this thing is not that good manipulating by bare hands then e.g. rub your eyes etc...

But not a big issue...

the smell ? not a problem for such simple cases... who care about ?

The problem is when poisonous material is mixed with the stuff intentionally to poison the treasure hunter!

There was another effective method about that... small sharp tips like fine needles inside the treasure box... mixed with coins etc

Needles had poisonous material on them to inoculate the venoms by little wounds on fingers etc

Old tricks... old stuff... rare to see examples of that... expecially in south america. In Europe is not impossible.:rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Theseus]

Maybe pure gold is not poisonous. The problem is that big treasure consist in gold 18, 14, 16, copper coins, silver coins 925, bronze, etc., gold mixed with other metals. Here the poison is the verdigris. Is dangerous when you smell accidentally in hole of treasures of caves wich contain it. So, this bad odor is "the gas". Also, for this motive is not a good idea cooking in copper recipients...

Maybe, if you're a treasure hunter "Ã* la beachcomber" you never will be poisoned...

Oh my gosh!!!! :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

While all along you folks have been making your pistol LRLs to search for small currents or fields. No wonder so many problems.

In fact, they should have been made to sense these "bad gases". What a revelation!!!

Let the debunkering begin. :D

[Fred]

Here the poison is the verdigris. Is dangerous when you smell accidentally in hole of treasures of caves wich contain it.
This is just copper sulfate, the same used on potatoes and fruit trees to combat fungus.
You can eat and breath it, but do not abuse :razz:

[Esteban]

Oh my gosh!!!! :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

While all along you folks have been making your pistol LRLs to search for small currents or fields. No wonder so many problems.

In fact, they should have been made to sense these "bad gases". What a revelation!!!

Let the debunkering begin. :D

As can see, you don't understand. Is dangerous when you're into a cave or hole with these acumulate metals in not ventilated sites.

Regards

[WM6]

Is dangerous when you're into a cave or hole with these acumulate metals in not ventilated sites.



Why you do not instal one or two ventilators on top of the LRL pistol to ventilate hole? It may be very useful to attract gold gases too.

[Max]

Why you do not instal one or two ventilators on top of the LRL pistol to ventilate hole? It may be very useful to attract gold gases too.

He can easy solve the gas issue: will make a big fart and evacuate all poisonous gases... hopefully! ;)

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

This is just copper sulfate, the same used on potatoes and fruit trees to combat fungus.
You can eat and breath it, but do not abuse :razz:

eat ? breath ?

Hmmmm... I know people that do this way... :rolleyes:
then after a while they're all new customers for dermatologist...that are really happy having all that new customers! :lol:

No , no... do not eat it... nor breath it... it's safe enough but treat with care... it's irritating to skin , mucose stuff...

Apart that, you're right almost widely used from many centuries... can't harm much , expecially such coins indeed, so few and not pure.

My grandfather used that for fishing... ;)

When a big stuff... like a big grouper...is caught with the fishline and it will suddenly go down the rocks to stay there and resist to attacks by the fisherman... he can use this approach:
suspend a small crystal of that in a small cloth... and let it slide along the fishline... till the cloth+crystal will reach the face of grouper :D

The reaction with seawater make the water around it... a bit irritating.

Also... the fish will breath all the stuff coming from it... thats neurotoxic.

Indeed, it will give up suddenly and you'll recover about stoned! :lol:

Old stuff...

You are on an island so you probably know if not... try it... with groupers...you'll be not disappointed. :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

but don't eat , drink, or breath it... not so safe.

[Theseus]

As can see, you don't understand. Is dangerous when you're into a cave or hole with these acumulate metals in not ventilated sites.

Regards

Ta Da! Sounds like a job for a RCLRLV.

Remote Controlled Long Range Locating Vehicle

;)

[J_Player]

Ta Da! Sounds like a job for a RCLRLV.

Remote Controlled Long Range Locating Vehicle

;)Hmmm...
In most treasure hunting sites where a large hole has been excavated, the treasure was already located. The concern is for toxic gases during the recovery process. Perhaps what is needed is a RCLREV

Remote controlled Long Range Excavating Vehicle

But I still think it is easier to wear a gas mask and safety line.

Best wishes,
J_P

[peroon]

Treasure "gas" is much less dangerous comparing to stomach gas from prospector! So...BEWARE! Do not eat beans before going prospecting! Neither cabage! Otherwise, prospector must perfectize farthing techniques to void blowing pants off , somewhere on the real fields! If you need instructions, i might write some, subjecting various farthing techniques on the field! You may consider me as an expert ! :lol:

[Fred]

Hi Max,
No , no... do not eat it... nor breath it... it's safe enough but treat with care... it's irritating to skin , mucose stuff...
This was a joke:there is often too much of that stuff in vegetables and fruit we buy.

You are on an island so you probably know if not... try it... with groupers...you'll be not disappointed. :rolleyes:
Thanks for the hint, looks interesting! and the sulfate is easy to produce.
I am on a island and i didn´t knew it, but you, on Mars, you do ! :shocked: ;)
regards,
Fred.

[michael]

Hi,
Hmmm... some gases or... well aerosols were intentionally created to protect the treasures against treasure hunters and thiefs.

How ? Easy... was common practice in the Middle Age due to some very clever manuscripts made by islamic authors also...

at that time there was clear some very poisonous plants/herbs/minerals could be added to treasure caches to protect from unwanted people...;)

The practice... along with other "mechanical" or "hydraulic" traps was really common in Europe in middle age.

It was by fine powders and "baths" of jewels , gold etc... chemical powders and chemical baths.

One of the most used poison was arsenic , usually a compound of yellow-red sulfide highly toxic.

They used powdered sulfide mixed with other natural compounds sometimes vegetable resins and very frequently plants additives , also poisonous.

The additives were employed both for toxicity and for making a good bond with treated materials (e.g. gold) like a very thin layer of glue.

Even eggs found a place in such preparations...

Sometimes the trap included a wooden or iron box full of that powdered stuff and glued on surfaces, as well as gold pieces covered by them. Sometimes internal finitures of box contained a mechanism to spread powders and poisonous emanations when box was opened by untrained people.

There were three primary source of poisoning : inhalation of powders and gases, skin contact and ingestion of small quantities of poison.

The effects, of course, were devastating... people after opening such a thing without required precautions will start in a few time (even minutes) to have simptoms of arsenic poisoning along with a number of variants due to the additives.
Usually the amount of venoms and poisonous material stored along with treasure was thousand times the volume required to kill a man! :lol:

That cause the "engineers" of past... when designing such places, traps and treasure boxes were induced in killing thiefs by these means as best protection strategy for the treasures.

The thiefs could also possibly locate the treasure and survive to mechanical or hydraulic traps... but they will die by poisoning after handling the stuff without knowing about the risks.

Indeed, the idea was so really efficient in such a purpose that many of these treasures are still in their place today. :D

So... if you find an old map... or a secret way to some underground tunnel be really careful... and make serious investigations before make attempts...cause these things can kill you exactly as they were buried yesterday and not 1000years ago.:rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max
Hi friends.
In my opinion the best and exhaustive presented reasons are from Max.
Yes, that's right at least for me. good knowledge.

Firstly; the fact is people all around world wouldn't use same ways or had access to other people knowledge, so it's highly probable some ancient people used some unknown materials for treasures like different poisonous materials; cyanide compounds, arsenics,.... and for some treasures that were very big that hoarded in rooms or even saloons underground, after finishing work and putting stuffs inside room killed all simple workers or even some simple soldiers and put them inside the room afterward would seal that, so this could be source of H2S and other type of gases emanating from body rotting; e.g. methane, hydrogen,....
for tough sealed treasure chamber formed gases don't infiltrate by the time break it.
so , you see hoarding was not same all around the world.
Secondly; about the Philippine treasure founds, are you sure those were buried for hundreds or thousands years ago?
and since that time no one had excavated original hoarded treasure afterward re-hoarded??
i.e. some original treasures were excavated one time and after dividing the shares some again buried his own share, so in this attempt it will lose any of polluted material, gas released and maybe pioneer guy died, others accessed treasure and after that naturally THer will wash found stuffs,...
whilst this time many things gradually happens, after re-hoarding they may involved troubles would gradually killed them. anything could be possible, you never know.
then what has happened for guys who first excavated original treasure, god knows better.
as another side how sure are you this THer(Bob Curtis) hadn't used safety tools?
see; professional THer never forget safety, never, be sure he is enough wise not to go with bare body.
I bet they had even used closed breathing system; air cylinder,.... like scuba tools. of course if it was a noticeable huge target.
BTW; albeit I didn't read Philippine founds story, except to the statue there is picture of gold bars with English written, those are not ancient or pictures are not true of found treasure are as an illustration.

about H2s as I know in my country most people who were close to treasure chamber all smelled stink.
about me personally; by this time still no experience of this kind, if god helps more we will reach to treasure chamber by 2-3 weeks later and tell my personal experience.

but 2 stories of 2 different team in my country I quote here:
1- Head of one THing team told me 2 weeks ago:
" we found an small treasure, but very precious about 10 years ago; a jar contained 65 big gold coins; each coin was with 12-13 Cm diameter and very bright(pure gold) we smelled very little stink, not noticeable, but after breaking the jar, one of my partners ignored and touched back of his hand with coins, after that he was involved with serious skin irritation ended to wound. despite best dermatologists prescriptions, healthy attentions here and offshore he still suffers of his skin problem."

2- for other team that I've heard in quotation; they were near to a big treasure chamber, one idiot had used lighter and caused
explosion which killed 2 persons and their project was divulged and police arrested rest of team and government found the treasure.

Now maybe none of these occurs in other places. it depends on luck (god helps) and our precautions.
BTW; these problems are nothing in comparison with powerful treasure guards which all are jinn.:D :D
you see what problems we have here to find a treasure!!!!!!!!
now you judge, can call it theft?:D :D

[Esteban]

Why you do not instal one or two ventilators on top of the LRL pistol to ventilate hole? It may be very useful to attract gold gases too.

A suggestion for you! Dou you can use a ventilator in direction of your brain! I think can ventilate your brain, because your genial ideas hot very much your "neurons", or maybe you prefer heatsinks? But a good combination can be heatsinks with ventilators like a PC! :razz: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[WM6]

A suggestion for you! Dou you can use a ventilator in direction of your brain! I think can ventilate your brain, because your genial ideas hot very much your "neurons", or maybe you prefer heatsinks? But a good combination can be heatsinks with ventilators like a PC! :razz: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Of course, when I read "scientific" debate on the LRL pistols, I always have to ventilate cooling the brain, so make me hot.

Now I am working on LRL kalashnikov schematics, so LRL pistols will be out of fashion soon.

[Max]

Of course, when I read "scientific" debate on the LRL pistols, I always have to ventilate cooling the brain, so make me hot.

Now I am working on LRL kalashnikov schematics, so LRL pistols will be out of fashion soon.


Hmmmmm... I like that kalashnikov... things.

Make a good sound! :lol:

At least... seems so! ;)

Sure better than boring beep beep...

As always chinese copied also that! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[peroon]

I hate guns! Except Colt.....Minelab Colt! :lol:

[detectoman]

jajajaa esteban, may be wm6 need pipe amoniacal refrigeration in head or major other export south american lrlst brain jajajaa

[WM6]

Hmmmmm... I like that kalashnikov... things.
:lol:



Our newest LRL gun on field test.
There are still some small bugs in hex.



http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4125/gifbingirlvssniperrecoi.gif ________________________http://www.freefever.com/animatedgifs/animated/money12.gif

[Esteban]

Of course, when I read "scientific" debate on the LRL pistols, I always have to ventilate cooling the brain, so make me hot.

Now I am working on LRL kalashnikov schematics, so LRL pistols will be out of fashion soon.

I'm amazed why some "scientific" minds come here and dirt with the mud! :lol:

My relatives use against nazi the most effective weapon who killed him during IIWW, the machine pistol PPSh-41 (Pistolet-Pulemyot Shpagina) (71 bullets caliber 7.62 in round magazine is more common). Nazis capture this and use as regular weapon (below a pic), because 7.63 German bullets works in it. The PPSh use the same caliber as pistol Tokarev 7.62.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPSh-41

[WM6]

I'm amazed why some "scientific" minds come here and dirt with the mud! :lol:



Don't be amazed, funny "science" fiction readings are always welcome.

[Max]

Our newest LRL gun on field test.
There are still some small bugs in hex.



http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4125/gifbingirlvssniperrecoi.gif ________________________http://www.freefever.com/animatedgifs/animated/money12.gif


A good way to lose an eye... :lol:

Better leave the guns to people who can handle them...:D

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

I'm amazed why some "scientific" minds come here and dirt with the mud! :lol:

My relatives use against nazi the most effective weapon who killed him during IIWW, the machine pistol PPSh-41 (Pistolet-Pulemyot Shpagina) (71 bullets caliber 7.62 in round magazine is more common). Nazis capture this and use as regular weapon (below a pic), because 7.63 German bullets works in it. The PPSh use the same caliber as pistol Tokarev 7.62.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPSh-41

Hmmmm... seems this stuff turns very hot after a few use...

AK47 was the real advancement... , of course, the inventor cloned some german stuff... but the weapon is still today of big success cause of reliability and roughness... not much about e.g. weight or accurancy.

The problem was that till middle 50's the soviets had big troubles in mass production attempts, in that years many working AK47 were like handmades... lot of small details done by hand... and simple machinery.

Then, when they realized how to mass produce them... made in millions each year... and sorrounding countries cloned.

Still today it's preferred choice of guerrillas cause of very low price (consider in some places one costs less than 5$) and big volumes available...

Sure... it's now poor-man or desperates weapon... but not for that something to take with less care... the opposite. :rolleyes:

Indeed, the hit ratio of AK47 family in last decades is no dubt the higher ever for automatic guns worldwide.

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

Oh yes, plenty o ammo.I have used a lot this one...
...in games :lol:

[Max]

Oh yes, plenty o ammo.I have used a lot this one...
...in games :lol:

in GTA maybe !?

me too...

ALWAYS in games... of course! ;)

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

Our newest LRL gun on field test.
There are still some small bugs in hex.



http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4125/gifbingirlvssniperrecoi.gif ________________________

Surely the scope needed adjustment after that :razz:

[homefire]

She missed lesson one!

How to hold the thing. :lol:

[Max]

for passionates.... of games! :D

history of AK47

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0SfLp5wYG0&feature=related

Kind regards,
Max

[WesP]

I find that the AK 47 in full auto is very much like the LRL.... Fire enough rounds with an AK and your bound to HIT SOMETHING.......Dig enough holes using the LRL and your bound to FIND SOMETHING.......:):razz::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:: lol::lol:

[detectoman]

hola here show my last project lrl prototipe, this detect cc mesurement box to 15 mts directional

[detectoman]

hola here show my last project lrl prototipe, this detect cc mesurement box to 15 mts directional
this lrl detect one door 2 x 2 mts to 4 or most mts, wtb, not try in field

[detectoman]

yours can see here smoke output of circuits, very hot function

[detectoman]

special thanks to esteban for he expert suport, what do possible this project
thanks estaban!
dman

[Morgan]

special thanks to esteban for he expert suport, what do possible this project
thanks estaban!
dman
Its the Black-Widow project ?
:shocked:

[detectoman]

YES is hibrid! widow project

[pike]

this is dangerous air found near indian sites where gold is present, one geologist used small german pointing machine and found tonns of g-bricks in woods , he uses pipes filtered by water to breath....more sites are there near Kurnool area and also near buddist areas.......

[Fred]

he uses pipes filtered by water to breath....

:lol: any smoke involved ?

[Esteban]

hola here show my last project lrl prototipe, this detect cc mesurement box to 15 mts directional

Hola Detectoman

Cómo funciona el "black widow"?

Saludos

[Esteban]

for passionates.... of games! :D

history of AK47

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0SfLp5wYG0&feature=related

Kind regards,
Max

AK47 born in 1947 based on machine pistols PPSh and PPS type. This is the 1943 variant PPS (Pistolet Pulemet Sudaev). You're right. These are based on German machine pistol MP28 ( 1928 ). First pic is 1943 soviet model PPS-43 and the second is the German machine pistol MP28. Other similar model is the Finland Suomi 1931.

Regards

[Max]

AK47 born in 1947 based on machine pistols PPSh and PPS type. This is the 1943 variant PPS (Pistolet Pulemet Sudaev). You're right. These are based on German machine pistol MP28 ( 1928 ). First pic is 1943 soviet model PPS-43 and the second is the German machine pistol MP28. Other similar model is the Finland Suomi 1931.

Regards

Hi,
yes some from here and there... but my reference was about german STG44 : Sturmgewehr 44

It was the 1st ever real short range street fighting designed rifle... a rapid firing stuff... and about sturdy , well not as AK47 but that was original idea...

The germans used widely in many places , often east places/front... like Stalingrad.

They run out of ammo , of course.... but that's another story... the weapon was proven very effective for street fighting... and Kalashnikov saw them in action... and was maybe inspired.

I'm not saying that he stole the design... it isn't... cause AK47 is truly a different weapon from STG44 but the idea of a close range rapid fire sturdy rifle... and automatic is the underlying concept present in both STG and AK.

Then Kalashnikov made the "miracle" solved some particular issues... and made a rifle that's almost indestructable and workable always... even in the worse case scenarios...

I know of AK47 made by Soviets (and some Yugo/Serbian clones) that can stay a week in mud and water... then you rise the rifle... let the water and mud slide down the barrel and start firing like it was just cleaned! :lol:
Same apply to dust... sand... whatever!:cool:

That's the major headhacke about them... they can work so cause are so rugged ! They can survive several wars... and indeed, some actually used today on various "fronts" have 3-4 or even 5 wars on their past! :rolleyes:

It's a puzzle... for USA mostly ... cause there are more than 200millions today floating from a place to another... a real danger... that will not end with weapons aging...

The aging of an AK is not measurable in years... maybe centuries.... I mean... if you discover one in year 2109 and put cartridges inside it will probably work , no problem! :lol:

Now compare that... with e.g. M4 carbine... sure... compact , less weight and good accurancy...etc but then ? Try to put one in water and mud for a week! :D

IF will work again will be just after complete cleaning and dismantling... put the dang oil stuff and pray! :razz:

The AK47 is , still today, fairly superior when things become hard... like you're in a desert and don't have time to find the special camel-butthairs-brush to clean it! ;)

It's the kind of thing I would like to have if things get worse... and have no time for dismantling and brushing with the camel stuff...:rolleyes:

Of course... this means also that still many people will die by a kalashnikov's piece in next years... the weapon is too effective and too mass produced.

Kind regards.
Max

[detectoman]

Hola Detectoman

Cómo funciona el "black widow"?

Saludos
dear esteban,:) : i'nt understand how give function my black stuff:lol:, only know my circuit work whit rf, induction :p pasive reciver, modified at little, 8)and whit you apreciable sugest for recipe, :) this now havent the previous support of i.r for hibrid detection, :nono: isnt neccesary , wtb work fine in detect points of electricity, :razz: and mases, :shocked: experimentation is in my tegnical domestic place, :| very difficultous for stablice the range,:lol: soon i go to field for try these,:| here in free space in field whitout interferences is the moment of the truth :nono:
is very economy in bateries, very stable, not afect for radio emision, yes sparks, not tv, not , neon light :shocked: is very strange
best whises for yours
experimenter dman

[Max]

:lol: any smoke involved ?

What's that ?

Seems a gigantic crack pipe... :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

OK guys ... I have deleted all the abusive posts. :nono:

[Max]

OK guys ... I have deleted all the abusive posts. :nono:

:D

THe Big Mac one ??? :lol:

Well done!

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

:D

THe Big Mac one ??? :lol:

Well done!

Kind regards,
Max
Actually it was the ones referring to your personal anatomy. :lol:
And your reply with the Big Mac, which quoted one of those posts.

[aft_72005]

dear esteban,:) : i'nt understand how give function my black stuff:lol:, only know my circuit work whit rf, induction :p pasive reciver, modified at little, 8)and whit you apreciable sugest for recipe, :) this now havent the previous support of i.r for hibrid detection, :nono: isnt neccesary , wtb work fine in detect points of electricity, :razz: and mases, :shocked: experimentation is in my tegnical domestic place, :| very difficultous for stablice the range,:lol: soon i go to field for try these,:| here in free space in field whitout interferences is the moment of the truth :nono:
is very economy in bateries, very stable, not afect for radio emision, yes sparks, not tv, not , neon light :shocked: is very strange
best whises for yours
experimenter dman




Hi detectoman :)
As you said , seem as good work. Congratulate :thumb:
Best regards.