Temperature, the best friend of LRL's

[Geo]

Hi.
Today i tried for second time a new LRL. It is a simple magnetic field detector with some modifications, plus a fm tuner as Esteban shows many times. First time i went to a place with some copper coins burient 18...19 years ago.
No results. It was a day after rain with temp about 25o Celcius.
I went again today at 18:00. Temperature 38 oC. Yes....:):):) i received a lot of signals around 3...4 m. Beeps was from MFD and not from radio fm because every time that i had beep, i had indication from the leds. Beeps was random and short, no continued. So the problem was again the same, no way to pin-point. But with this temperature, something is happening. It is the first time that i took signal from copper with lrl of this technology.
I went again at 21:15. Temperature was 29oC. No beeps :angry::angry:. The first led sometimes was light but no beeps. Maybe the out of MFD want a little modification so the beeps to coming easy when the led light a litle.
But the resume is one. With big temperature the "magnetic field" is more strong than it at lower temp.

Regards

[Fred]

Hi Geo,
Interesting, thanks for sharing,
Could ambient humidity, related to temperature, influence it ?

[detectoman]

hey geo, shure this isnt detection, may be is effect of sun hot warm on capacitors, transistores coils etc, and then is erratic, put lrl, whit insulation, then return the try
embraces

[detectoman]

geo always try whitout sun

[J_Player]

Hi.
Today i tried for second time a new LRL. It is a simple magnetic field detector with some modifications, plus a fm tuner as Esteban shows many times. First time i went to a place with some copper coins burient 18...19 years ago.
No results. It was a day after rain with temp about 25o Celcius.
I went again today at 18:00. Temperature 38 oC. Yes....:):):) i received a lot of signals around 3...4 m. Beeps was from MFD and not from radio fm because every time that i had beep, i had indication from the leds. Beeps was random and short, no continued. So the problem was again the same, no way to pin-point. But with this temperature, something is happening. It is the first time that i took signal from copper with lrl of this technology.
I went again at 21:15. Temperature was 29oC. No beeps :angry::angry:. The first led sometimes was light but no beeps. Maybe the out of MFD want a little modification so the beeps to coming easy when the led light a litle.
But the resume is one. With big temperature the "magnetic field" is more strong than it at lower temp.

RegardsHi Geo,
This is an interesting report. After two days of testing, you concluded that high temperature improves the detection using the magnetic coil and FM radio receiver. But Fred asks "Could ambient humidity, related to temperature, influence it "?
Fred' question makes me think about the method that you used to determine that temperature caused the improvement. What comes to mind is that very likely, the humidity played a part in the change in performance. And I wonder what other natural forces also influenced the detection of this equipment?

If you are monitoring variations in small currents flowing in the coil, this would suggest you are measuring variations in the magnetic field, or variations in radio waves that induce a current in the coil from the magnetic portion of a wave, when the wave is transitioning to an unbalanced state of power on the positive and negative lobes. If there is a diode or transistor in the coil circuit that only permits one-direction current, then the coil could actually receive AM broadcast transmissions, or receive a rectified RF signal from some other source.

If these are the signals that you are detecting, then in either case, I would expect that your detector would work better in times when the atmospheric charge is greater. This is due to the fact that when we have a larger atmospheric charge, there will be more current leaking to the soil above the long-time buried metal. This current flowing will focus down the ion column to produce an anomaly compared to the surrounding soil, and will induce a small magnetic field as a result.

This effect is greatly inhibited when there is not much static charge in the air. During the lifetime of a rain storm there are times when the static charge can drop to zero, and even reverse. And as the storm recedes, the static charge will usually recover to it's normal clear-day level. While all this is happening, the humidity has a large effect on the static charge in the air. Lower humidity tends to promote a better charge, while high humidity causes the air to conduct better, and decreases the static charge. This is further complicated by the electric charges that are generated by the friction of water droplets in the air as well as at the surface of the ocean. And there are other forces of nature that can change the static charge in the air, such as solar activities, dust generated in cities, natural dust storms, etc.

What I am wondering is if the temperature is what caused the change in performance, or was it something else that changed over the same time duration that the temperature changed?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
Interesting, thanks for sharing,
Could ambient humidity, related to temperature, influence it ?

Hi Fred
I don't know. I read the temp via the car temperature meter. I must find a small meter for humidity (this that i have is on a big clock) and to check it. Also i must check how the signal vary with temp at other objects (silver, bronze, al etc).

Regards

[Geo]

hey geo, shure this isnt detection, may be is effect of sun hot warm on capacitors, transistores coils etc, and then is erratic, put lrl, whit insulation, then return the try
embraces

Hi. If it is from the sun, why after 5...10 meters i have not any beeps???

Regards:)

[Geo]

Hi J_P.
I believe that it is the temperature that caused the change in performance. Because in 3 hours the only big change was at temperature (from 38 it went 29 o C). In a normal good day i believe that humidity don't change so much in a duration of 3 hours

Regards:)

[Qiaozhi]

Hi J_P.
I believe that it is the temperature that caused the change in performance. Because in 3 hours the only big change was at temperature (from 38 it went 29 o C). In a normal good day i believe that humidity don't change so much in a duration of 3 hours

Regards:)
You could try heating the device with a hairdryer to see if the performance of the circuit is heat dependent.

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
I believe that it is the temperature that caused the change in performance. Because in 3 hours the only big change was at temperature (from 38 it went 29 o C). In a normal good day i believe that humidity don't change so much in a duration of 3 hours

Regards:)Hi Geo,
I have read reports that the detection using LRLs can change due to a change of the time of day. According to some reports, a change of 3 hours is enough to change the detection abilities due to changes in a daily cycle that is keyed to the solar and electrical activity in the upper ionosphere which drives the voltage gradient at the surface. the air temperature plays some part in the gradient, but a stronger force was reported due to the daily ionospheric cycle that changes throughout the day, and moves as the earth turns.

It would be interesting to make more tests when you see a temperature change over a short period of time to see if your observations are repeated. Also it would be good to make observations when the temperature increases after a few hours. This will tend to confirm the conclusions you reached,

But if you observe that the performance of your coil does not follow the same observation of better performance when the temperature is higher, then maybe something else is contributing to the performance improvement.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

You could try heating the device with a hairdryer to see if the performance of the circuit is heat dependent.

Or just paint it all black...:D

[J_Player]

You could try heating the device with a hairdryer to see if the performance of the circuit is heat dependent.

Originally Posted by Max
Or just paint it all black...:DHi Max,
This will work to test if the circuitry performance is temperature dependent. But suppose the air temperature in the vicinity of the treasure and surrounding areas is what will change the performance, not the circuitry?

I suspect the performance of the circuitry is not largely changed by the 9 C temperature drop that Geo cited, but it is possible. It sounds to me that the change in beeps is more likely caused by a difference in atmospheric conditions that is linked to the time of day, in a similar manner to how some radio broadcasts are diminished after a certain time of the day.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

As long as the device is zeroed constantly i don´t see how components temperature can affect much of his behaviour.

[Esteban]

Well, temperature ups the gain of semiconductor. Is very easy to comprobe it. Put a transistor in your gain transistor checker. Put near the transistor a hot iron and see how can rapid ups the gain. You have this option: ever use transistors lowest in gain no more than 150-180. This method is for pistol based on transistors. Here the hot is very strong and inestability comes. So, in the case of Geo hot helps, but excesive causes inestabilities.

[J_Player]

Well, temperature ups the gain of semiconductor. Is very easy to comprobe it. Put a transistor in your gain transistor checker. Put near the transistor a hot iron and see how can rapid ups the gain. You have this option: ever use transistors lowest in gain no more than 150-180. This method is for pistol based on transistors. Here the hot is very strong and inestability comes. So, in the case of Geo hot helps, but excesive causes inestabilities.The temperature that Geo is talking about is not in the sun. It is only a temperature difference of 9C. This is not the temperature change you find when you put a transistor near a hot iron. It is the temperature change that you may see when you put your hand on a transistor to warm it in the night.

The day time temperature found in Paraguay when a painted surface is placed in the sun can be hot enough to cook food on, depending on the time of day. This is caused by the radiant heat from the sun. This is much hotter than the air temperature. The temperature Geo reported was the air temperature when the sun was not in the sky. Only air conduction working to put heat into his LRL. And only a 9C temperature change. This makes me think something else caused the change in beeps.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Can't found the link in the pic on forum. What happens? More very old post I can found, but no this. Here I draw an experiment with copper and zinc wires exposed at Sun wich generates small amount of electricity.

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12151&highlight=sun+involved

[Esteban]

The temperature that Geo is talking about is not in the sun. It is only a temperature difference of 9C. This is not the temperature change you find when you put a transistor near a hot iron. It is the temperature change that you may see when you put your hand on a transistor to warm it in the night.

The day time temperature found in Paraguay when a painted surface is placed in the sun can be hot enough to cook food on, depending on the time of day. This is caused by the radiant heat from the sun. This is much hotter than the air temperature. The temperature Geo reported was the air temperature when the sun was not in the sky. Only air conduction working to put heat into his LRL. And only a 9C temperature change. This makes me think something else caused the change in beeps.

Best wishes,
J_P

Yes, is OK. But when you run in places with such equipment, hot from the Sun helps detector, and other extreme start inestabilities.

Regards

[Max]

Well, temperature ups the gain of semiconductor. Is very easy to comprobe it. Put a transistor in your gain transistor checker. Put near the transistor a hot iron and see how can rapid ups the gain. You have this option: ever use transistors lowest in gain no more than 150-180. This method is for pistol based on transistors. Here the hot is very strong and inestability comes. So, in the case of Geo hot helps, but excesive causes inestabilities.

Or ... better use small miniature tubes... and no semiconductors in input stage....:rolleyes:

But this don't prove the LRLs work... of course. Instability is common problem in old MDs as well... and other stuff that have to work with hi amplification chain.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi Max,
This will work to test if the circuitry performance is temperature dependent. But suppose the air temperature in the vicinity of the treasure and surrounding areas is what will change the performance, not the circuitry?

I suspect the performance of the circuitry is not largely changed by the 9 C temperature drop that Geo cited, but it is possible. It sounds to me that the change in beeps is more likely caused by a difference in atmospheric conditions that is linked to the time of day, in a similar manner to how some radio broadcasts are diminished after a certain time of the day.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
don't know... maybe is just instability related to minority carriers... old problem of any transistor based design...

there's a -2mV/K variation due to pn junctions forward polarized also... happens e.g. in diodes... but also at bipolar transistors and other things.:rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Can't found the link in the pic on forum. What happens? More very old post I can found, but no this. Here I draw an experiment with copper and zinc wires exposed at Sun wich generates small amount of electricity.

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12151&highlight=sun+involved

The two metals make a junction.... the two metals reflects different way the sunrays and so heath up at slightly different temperature... when this happens you get Seebeck effect again... like in thermocouples... and if put in short turn you'll get a small current flowing inside the turn.

The current is really small... the voltage generated is small too...

having enough sensitive apparatus is possible detect the very weak magnetic field generated by current flow... but just very near to the loop, for reasons already explained... the magnitude decay as power of 3 with distance...

By using a sensitive hi-impedance microvoltmeter you can read directly the voltage... at junction.

The effect is much increased if you cool one side of junction... by e.g. dry ice... but I don't see how all that correlates with LRL stuff...

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Or ... better use small miniature tubes... and no semiconductors in input stage....:rolleyes:

But this don't prove the LRLs work... of course. Instability is common problem in old MDs as well... and other stuff that have to work with hi amplification chain.

Kind regards,
Max

OK, but the problem is present in 4 transistors, not only in the first. Of course, I "solved" the problem inventing the "Esteban transistor" Ã* la oil. :lol: :razz:

[Esteban]

The two metals make a junction.... the two metals reflects different way the sunrays and so heath up at slightly different temperature... when this happens you get Seebeck effect again... like in thermocouples... and if put in short turn you'll get a small current flowing inside the turn.

The current is really small... the voltage generated is small too...

having enough sensitive apparatus is possible detect the very weak magnetic field generated by current flow... but just very near to the loop, for reasons already explained... the magnitude decay as power of 3 with distance...

By using a sensitive hi-impedance microvoltmeter you can read directly the voltage... at junction.

The effect is much increased if you cool one side of junction... by e.g. dry ice... but I don't see how all that correlates with LRL stuff...

Kind regards,
Max

Max, relations, relations... In soil occurs similar with long time buried metal, an ammount of electricity with is "own atmosphere"... :rolleyes:

[Aurificus]

Reposted from Hypothesis, since we are talking temperature here!!

If My proposed signal effect is "powered" by diurnal solar radiation then detectable depth is likely to max out at around 0.3 metres. :oh:.

Great illustration, Wish I'd found it earlier!!
The amount of "lag" is clearly shown too.

Not completely BUSTED, But definitely, Bruised & Battered.
Cheers, Aurificus :)

[Morgan]

Hi.
Today i tried for second time a new LRL. It is a simple magnetic field detector with some modifications, plus a fm tuner as Esteban shows many times. First time i went to a place with some copper coins burient 18...19 years ago.
No results. It was a day after rain with temp about 25o Celcius.
I went again today at 18:00. Temperature 38 oC. Yes....:):):) i received a lot of signals around 3...4 m. Beeps was from MFD and not from radio fm because every time that i had beep, i had indication from the leds. Beeps was random and short, no continued. So the problem was again the same, no way to pin-point. But with this temperature, something is happening. It is the first time that i took signal from copper with lrl of this technology.
I went again at 21:15. Temperature was 29oC. No beeps :angry::angry:. The first led sometimes was light but no beeps. Maybe the out of MFD want a little modification so the beeps to coming easy when the led light a litle.
But the resume is one. With big temperature the "magnetic field" is more strong than it at lower temp.

Regards
Hello Geo

My advice to you is to not build more LRL gizmos until you see PD working here in my country.Not lose time building crap.
I´m sure after you test the real LRL device (PISTOLDETEKTOR)and see results,your mind concentrate more in reality,not LRL fiction from twilight zone ;)

Regards

[Morgan]

Hi.
Today i tried for second time a new LRL. It is a simple magnetic field detector with some modifications, plus a fm tuner as Esteban shows many times. First time i went to a place with some copper coins burient 18...19 years ago.
No results. It was a day after rain with temp about 25o Celcius.
I went again today at 18:00. Temperature 38 oC. Yes....:):):) i received a lot of signals around 3...4 m. Beeps was from MFD and not from radio fm because every time that i had beep, i had indication from the leds. Beeps was random and short, no continued. So the problem was again the same, no way to pin-point. But with this temperature, something is happening. It is the first time that i took signal from copper with lrl of this technology.
I went again at 21:15. Temperature was 29oC. No beeps :angry::angry:. The first led sometimes was light but no beeps. Maybe the out of MFD want a little modification so the beeps to coming easy when the led light a litle.
But the resume is one. With big temperature the "magnetic field" is more strong than it at lower temp.

Regards
Remember,Pistoldetektors work fine during the day and night,only raining afect detection distance.

[J_Player]

Hello Geo
My advice to you is to not build more LRL gizmos until you see PD working here in my country.Not lose time building crap.
I´m sure after you test the real LRL device (PISTOLDETEKTOR)and see results,your mind concentrate more in reality,not LRL fiction from twilight zone ;)
RegardsExcellent idea..!!
When Geo sees the "Real LRL" working, his eyes will be coming out of his head! Then he will no longer waste time building crap. He will only build the "Real" PDK.

But there is one problem: Nobody ever discovered how to make the ferrite coils with the correct turns and connections, because you did not give the information needed. Will Geo be able to look at these coils to see where the wires must connect, and count the turns himself, and see where the coils must be located for good tuning, and make a test to find the resonant frequency, so he can correctly build the coil?

If he can, then we know he will be building the PD full time, with no wasted effort on other "toys" because there is only one Real PD that will surpass the performance of all other LRLs for close work.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Alexismex]

Hello Morgan,
It is true many people speak about pistol but NOBODY give us the ferrite coil specification to test your research ....
I did not ask "mucho" not more to pick up a coin in 10cm depth in soil at 1 meter distance and you will win my mind!!!
Alexis.

[hung]

I did not ask "mucho" not more to pick up a coin in 10cm depth in soil at 1 meter distance and you will win my mind!!!
Alexis.

1 meter?:lol::lol:

Forget it...
What about 2 meters for fresh gold and 2 km for LTB gold?
Here's a perfect example of what that baby can do...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZDo2HTP8HQ&feature=related


The user even waves goodbye to the armchair moronic skepthics in the end of the show.:D

Hey Alex, before talking gizmos as in recent past, you better team up with detectoman. You will learn many things.

[Qiaozhi]

1 meter?:lol::lol:

Forget it...
What about 2 meters for fresh gold and 2 km for LTB gold?
Here's a perfect example of what that baby can do...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZDo2HTP8HQ&feature=related
Comments on the video:


Even though you have accused Carl on many occasions of testing his Mineoro in the house or back yard, here is yet another video showing an indoor test.
There is no test shown without the foil.
Your statement that LTB gold can be detected at 2Km is a joke.
Ditto for fresh gold at 2 meters.

The user even waves goodbye to the armchair moronic skepthics in the end of the show.:D
Perhaps he was waving like this -> :nono:

Oh yes ... almost forgot .... when is the debunkering due to start?

[Fred]

?
Here's a perfect example of what that baby can do...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZDo2HTP8HQ&feature=related

Is this a joke or are you being completely ridiculous?
Why at the beginning of the video and at low heigh nothing was detected ?
At best, this detects horizontal position,or earth capacitance effect as Esteban says.
Looking at the other video from this guy i wonder if he is somewhat retarded?

[hung]

Why at the beginning of the video and at low heigh nothing was detected ?
At best, this detects horizontal position,or earth capacitance effect as Esteban says.


You still have a lot to learn about the phenomena and these devices... Come back in say, 4 years maybe?

Sorry, I don't talk about the obvious anymore. Maybe Esteban still does...

[Max]

You still have a lot to learn about the phenomena and these devices... Come back in say, 4 years maybe?

Sorry, I don't talk about the obvious anymore. Maybe Esteban still does...

Sure Dr. Hung... you just talk of gold-DNA and other "advanced" BS! :lol:

You'll won the Nobel prize for stupidity... the Nobel prize comitee will create that new stuff just for you (and your team)! :D

[Qiaozhi]

You still have a lot to learn about the phenomena and these devices... Come back in say, 4 years maybe?

Sorry, I don't talk about the obvious anymore. Maybe Esteban still does...
What!!?? :eek:

No debunkering for 4 years!
Is this something to do with longtime buried BS?

[Esteban]

Hello Geo

My advice to you is to not build more LRL gizmos until you see PD working here in my country.Not lose time building crap.
I´m sure after you test the real LRL device (PISTOLDETEKTOR)and see results,your mind concentrate more in reality,not LRL fiction from twilight zone ;)

Regards

Morgan

You need to go with Geo in X location and search for metals and film the recovery. Is not enough testing in your own test field. :)

Regards

Esteban

[J_Player]

Morgan

You need to go with Geo in X location and search for metals and film the recovery. Is not enough testing in your own test field. :)

Regards

EstebanThis is correct.
If you only want your LRL to work for yourself, and you do not care who believes, then it is enough to test in your own field.

But if your purpose is to convince other forum readers that your LRL works, then it is not enough to test in your own field.
This will only convince you, not the other readers. You must show them something to make them believe.
A videotaped treasure recovery witnessed by Geo would help a lot to convince people that the LRL works.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

You still have a lot to learn about the phenomena and these devices... Come back in say, 4 years maybe?

Sorry, I don't talk about the obvious anymore. Maybe Esteban still does...

What i have learnt about the phenomena is that it occurs from a long time burried metal, not a piece of metal on a couch :lol:

[Morgan]

1 meter?:lol::lol:

Forget it...
What about 2 meters for fresh gold and 2 km for LTB gold?
Here's a perfect example of what that baby can do...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZDo2HTP8HQ&feature=related


The user even waves goodbye to the armchair moronic skepthics in the end of the show.:D

Hey Alex, before talking gizmos as in recent past, you better team up with detectoman. You will learn many things.
This video not convince me about Mineoro performance.
When Geo arrive here in the end of august month,he will also report behavior of my 3 MINEORO models working near GOLD medal buried 20 years ago(was my MD test long time ago).
He also bring with him his LRL´s to see the behavior.
Hung,we like to put the true here,not LRL fantasies,anyway i know Mineoro work as LRL,but performances to find small gold objects are not good...So,Pistoldetektor is my best LRL,Geo will see it working,all the forum will know i said the true since the begining.

Regards

[Morgan]

Morgan

You need to go with Geo in X location and search for metals and film the recovery. Is not enough testing in your own test field. :)

Regards

Esteban
This is in our plans but he only stay for 3 days...

[Morgan]

This is correct.
If you only want your LRL to work for yourself, and you do not care who believes, then it is enough to test in your own field.

But if your purpose is to convince other forum readers that your LRL works, then it is not enough to test in your own field.
This will only convince you, not the other readers. You must show them something to make them believe.
A videotaped treasure recovery witnessed by Geo would help a lot to convince people that the LRL works.

Best wishes,
J_P
I dont believe me and Geo can find treasure with PD during 3 days,but many objects thats for sure we will find.

[Morgan]

What i have learnt about the phenomena is that it occurs from a long time burried metal, not a piece of metal on a couch :lol:
The PHENOMENA will be recorded in video when GEO arrive here,HOPE EVERYBODY BELIEVE LRL WITH PD IS REAL !!!
He already get the plain tickets ;)
The fact that he come here,means he is one of the rare forum members who trust me and believe in Esteban that LRL exist,its reality,IT WORKS.

[Qiaozhi]

The PHENOMENA will be recorded in video when GEO arrive here,HOPE EVERYBODY BELIEVE LRL WITH PD IS REAL !!!
He already get the plain tickets ;)
The fact that he come here,means he is one of the rare forum members who trust me and believe in Esteban that LRL exist,its reality,IT WORKS.
We eagerly await the results of your tests.

[mosha]

1 meter?:lol::lol:

Forget it...
What about 2 meters for fresh gold and 2 km for LTB gold?
Here's a perfect example of what that baby can do...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZDo2HTP8HQ&feature=related


The user even waves goodbye to the armchair moronic skepthics in the end of the show.:D

Hey Alex, before talking gizmos as in recent past, you better team up with detectoman. You will learn many things.

Random beeps as always.

regards.

[J_Player]

I dont believe me and Geo can find treasure with PD during 3 days,but many objects thats for sure we will find.Hi Morgan,
I will be happy to see videos of Geo finding many objects at long range with the PD and other LRLs. I would like to see the difference in performance of different LRLs before recovering the target. I will anxiously wait for his report in the remote sensing forum. :)

Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

This video not convince me about Mineoro performance.en Geo arrive here in the end of august month,he will also report behavior of my 3 MINEORO models working near GOLD medal buried 20 years ago(was my MD test long time ago).
He also bring with him his LRL´s to see the behavior.
Hung,we like to put the true here,not LRL fantasies,anyway i know Mineoro work as LRL,but performances to find small gold objects are not good...So,Pistoldetektor is my best LRL,Geo will see it working,all the forum will know i said the true since the begining.

Regards

Morgan, you have some info mixed up and I feel I need to clarify this to you.
The person in the video owns one FG80 with the GIG. Even the regular FG80 has better sensitivity than your DC. However before the advent of the GIG, the FG80 had trouble in detecting fresh items, unless exact weather conditions were met. I could detect a gold ring at 3 meters once in a hot and dry day, but the detection was not constant. Then came the GIG, which was built in order to create a local ionic/electrostatic ambience to 'excite' the target and enhance detection. This is the one which is featured in the video. He turned the GIG on for the demonstration.

Time went by and Damasio and Alonso obviously evolved in their aproach. Then the FG80 Tyon and FG90 were born. Those don't need the GIG anymore as these new devices have a better tuning trough the use of 2 IR T-R leds. The sensitivity evolved tremendously and also the filtering capability as I already reported in tests with the Tyon in this forum.

I don't deny that small objects were tough to pinpoint with the Mineoros in the past, although with the right technique and some work it could and can be done. As a matter of fact, Damasio always told me that the main goal of the devices were big treasures at large ranges.
The new models have much more precision for small objects tough.

As a final note, bear in mind the Tyon has the PD as basis and it's much more advanced as I could check. The PD was a prototype for it.
So your comparison with the DC2008 is null. The PD only detects close targets and takes advantage of the regular MD head when pinpointing is required. The Tyon has a much, much more range and also works on extremely high humidities and bad environments which the PD just can't.

I say it again. Ask Alonso about the new models. He will tell you.
Sorry, but you lack standards of comparisons for the PD when you include the DC2008 which is an old model.
Best regards.

[Morgan]

Hi Morgan,
I will be happy to see videos of Geo finding many objects at long range with the PD and other LRLs. I would like to see the difference in performance of different LRLs before recovering the target. I will anxiously wait for his report in the remote sensing forum. :)

Best wishes,
J_P
Hello

Today Geo call me ,we talk by mobile,i dont understand greek language but fortunatly he speak english,so we understand each other,this is good point for to start.

[Morgan]

Morgan, you have some info mixed up and I feel I need to clarify this to you.
The person in the video owns one FG80 with the GIG. Even the regular FG80 has better sensitivity than your DC. However before the advent of the GIG, the FG80 had trouble in detecting fresh items, unless exact weather conditions were met. I could detect a gold ring at 3 meters once in a hot and dry day, but the detection was not constant. Then came the GIG, which was built in order to create a local ionic/electrostatic ambience to 'excite' the target and enhance detection. This is the one which is featured in the video. He turned the GIG on for the demonstration.

Time went by and Damasio and Alonso obviously evolved in their aproach. Then the FG80 Tyon and FG90 were born. Those don't need the GIG anymore as these new devices have a better tuning trough the use of 2 IR T-R leds. The sensitivity evolved tremendously and also the filtering capability as I already reported in tests with the Tyon in this forum.

I don't deny that small objects were tough to pinpoint with the Mineoros in the past, although with the right technique and some work it could and can be done. As a matter of fact, Damasio always told me that the main goal of the devices were big treasures at large ranges.
The new models have much more precision for small objects tough.

As a final note, bear in mind the Tyon has the PD as basis and it's much more advanced as I could check. The PD was a prototype for it.
So your comparison with the DC2008 is null. The PD only detects close targets and takes advantage of the regular MD head when pinpointing is required. The Tyon has a much, much more range and also works on extremely high humidities and bad environments which the PD just can't.

I say it again. Ask Alonso about the new models. He will tell you.
Sorry, but you lack standards of comparisons for the PD when you include the DC2008 which is an old model.
Best regards.
Hello Hung

First of all,the PD can detect SMALL OBJECTS (2m to 6m) and BIG OBJECTS(20m or more).
If you say my DC2008 is OLD ???remember i buy it not long time ago(2007/2008) its already old ? Damasio is growing very fast with Mineoro technology :shocked:

[J_Player]

Today Geo call me ,we talk by mobile,i dont understand greek language but fortunatly he speak english,so we understand each other,this is good point for to start.


...Hello Hung

First of all,the PD can detect SMALL OBJECTS (2m to 6m) and BIG OBJECTS(20m or more).
If you say my DC2008 is OLD ???remember i buy it not long time ago(2007/2008) its already old ? Damasio is growing very fast with Mineoro technology :shocked:Hi Morgan,
This is great news! The first time ever, an LRL demonstration for the forum! :)

Don't worry about what hung says.
You can still make videotaped observations of how the different LRLs perform to show the facts, not BS. :super:

Best wishes to you and Geo,
J_P

[hung]

If you say my DC2008 is OLD ???remember i buy it not long time ago(2007/2008) its already old ?

Actually old in comparison with the new models.
Two years are a lot of time in terms of technology.

Damasio is growing very fast with Mineoro technology :shocked:

Yes, maybe just like PC manufacturers...:lol:

[Qiaozhi]

:rolleyes:Then came the GIG, which was built in order to create a local ionic/electrostatic ambience to 'excite' the target and enhance detection
What sort of nonsense faiiryland physics is this? :shrug:

As a matter of fact, Damasio always told me that the main goal of the devices were big treasures at large ranges.
The new models have much more precision for small objects tough.
For example, detecting a square of metal on your sofa ... indoors! :lol:
Perhaps Damasio was referring to wallet mining customers from outside Brazil. :rolleyes:

[hung]

The PHENOMENA will be recorded in video when GEO arrive here,HOPE EVERYBODY BELIEVE LRL WITH PD IS REAL !!!
He already get the plain tickets ;)
The fact that he come here,means he is one of the rare forum members who trust me and believe in Esteban that LRL exist,its reality,IT WORKS.

Hey Morgan,
You have already shot videos with the PD working in your back yard and it clearly shows it detecting your gold medal. Despite of that the skepthics insist in denying the fact and now they want you to shoot another video??

This is BS. Besides the fact that they don't believe you yet, I bet 10 to 1 that even with Geo there and if you both recover something, still it will prove nothing to them. They will say it was luck or coincidence.
It's been all like this with the sick skepthics along the time in all forums.

Believe me, this will not change anything to them. Some of them are even so desperate that they will die if not getting their hands in a working LRL!:shocked:

I would suggest that you show the video to the LRL proponents here and SELL a copy to the sketpthics. This would cover all the inconveniences and disbeliefs they have performed against you since the early PD days.:lol:

How's that for a fair deal?
Regards e 'cuidado para eles não te fazerem de bobo de novo...'

[Qiaozhi]

Hey Morgan,
You have already shot videos with the PD working in your back yard and it clearly shows it detecting your gold medal. Despite of that the skepthics insist in denying the fact and now they want you to shoot another video??
And ... you also shot a video in your bedroom, which turned out to be a very bad fake. :nono:

This is BS. Besides the fact that they don't believe you yet, I bet 10 to 1 that even with Geo there and if you both recover something, still it will prove nothing to them. They will say it was luck or coincidence.
There is no substitute for actually being there. No-one else (except Morgan) claims to have created a working clone of the original PD. Your own attempts (and claims) are highly suspect, and therefore cannot be taken at face value, especially since you have zero credibility here. Geo has attempted to build a clone and failed, so it will be interesting to see what he discovers during his visit.

It's been all like this with the sick skepthics along the time in all forums.
Now that's an interesting comment ... and why do you think that is? Perhaps I may suggest that it's because of the bunk you are spreading across the internet. It's going to take some serious debunkering to clear up that mess! :lol:

Believe me, this will not change anything to them. Some of them are even so desperate that they will die if not getting their hands in a working LRL!:shocked:
Dream on ... and keep taking the tablets. :barf:

I would suggest that you show the video to the LRL proponents here and SELL a copy to the sketpthics. This would cover all the inconveniences and disbeliefs they have performed against you since the early PD days.:lol:

How's that for a fair deal?
Regards e 'cuidado para eles não te fazerem de bobo de novo...'
Another wallet-mining opportunity?
Perhaps it's you who "fazerem de bobo de novo...".

Stop wasting time and get on with the debunkering. :razz:

[Geo]

You could try heating the device with a hairdryer to see if the performance of the circuit is heat dependent.

It is not heat dependent.

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
I have read reports that the detection using LRLs can change due to a change of the time of day. According to some reports, a change of 3 hours is enough to change the detection abilities due to changes in a daily cycle that is keyed to the solar and electrical activity in the upper ionosphere which drives the voltage gradient at the surface. the air temperature plays some part in the gradient, but a stronger force was reported due to the daily ionospheric cycle that changes throughout the day, and moves as the earth turns.

It would be interesting to make more tests when you see a temperature change over a short period of time to see if your observations are repeated. Also it would be good to make observations when the temperature increases after a few hours. This will tend to confirm the conclusions you reached,

But if you observe that the performance of your coil does not follow the same observation of better performance when the temperature is higher, then maybe something else is contributing to the performance improvement.

Best wishes,
J_P


Hi J_P.
I will try it again. I just came back from Athens (i was at hospital) and tomorrow night i will go for holidays. I will be back on end of July. So for more tests wait for 2 weeks...

Regards:)

[Geo]

As long as the device is zeroed constantly i don´t see how components temperature can affect much of his behaviour.


Hi Fred.

If the temp affect to the phenomenon???

Regards

[Qiaozhi]

It is not heat dependent.
Good luck with your visit to Morgan.
We are all waiting for your full report.

[Geo]

Morgan

You need to go with Geo in X location and search for metals and film the recovery. Is not enough testing in your own test field. :)

Regards

Esteban


Hi Esteban.
Why is not enough a test at his own test field??? If i will see the PD to working, i will tell here it. If it don't working, i will tell you ...NOT.
If someone don't believe me.... it is his problem, not mine. I paid the tickets, hotel and car for to see the PD from Morgan working. I told on this forum if any other of the RS team wants to come with me but not response. Now why i must go to a lot of places to take video of the PD?? We want to learn if PD works ok (if Morgan say the true), and if it is possible to understand why our clone don't work.

Regards:)

[Geo]

Hey Morgan,
You have already shot videos with the PD working in your back yard and it clearly shows it detecting your gold medal. Despite of that the skepthics insist in denying the fact and now they want you to shoot another video??

This is BS. Besides the fact that they don't believe you yet, I bet 10 to 1 that even with Geo there and if you both recover something, still it will prove nothing to them. They will say it was luck or coincidence.
It's been all like this with the sick skepthics along the time in all forums.

Believe me, this will not change anything to them. Some of them are even so desperate that they will die if not getting their hands in a working LRL!:shocked:

I would suggest that you show the video to the LRL proponents here and SELL a copy to the sketpthics. This would cover all the inconveniences and disbeliefs they have performed against you since the early PD days.:lol:

How's that for a fair deal?
Regards e 'cuidado para eles não te fazerem de bobo de novo...'


Hi Hung.

You have not right.
I called the members of RS forum to come with me to test the PD but no one wants to come, or they are busy. So if the PD works good, i want to see who will be he, that will not believe the video!!!!

Regards:)

[Geo]

Good luck with your visit to Morgan.
We are all waiting for your full report.

Thank you:)

[Morgan]

Hi Hung.

You have not right.
I called the members of RS forum to come with me to test the PD but no one wants to come, or they are busy. So if the PD works good, i want to see who will be he, that will not believe the video!!!!

Regards:)
Hello Geo

Thanks for calling me yesterday.
Dont worry about this,i never let you buy tickets if i tell lies in this forum.
I think we will have time to search with PD in new places,lets make some videos for the skeptics.

Regards

[Morgan]

[quote=hung;94012]Hey Morgan,
You have already shot videos with the PD working in your back yard and it clearly shows it detecting your gold medal. Despite of that the skepthics insist in denying the fact and now they want you to shoot another video??

This is BS. Besides the fact that they don't believe you yet, I bet 10 to 1 that even with Geo there and if you both recover something, still it will prove nothing to them. They will say it was luck or coincidence.
It's been all like this with the sick skepthics along the time in all forums.

Believe me, this will not change anything to them. Some of them are even so desperate that they will die if not getting their hands in a working LRL!:shocked:
Hello Hung

As you know i have a challenge,the PD against other LRL´s.
I want to see if other LRL can detect the gold medal i put in the ground more than 20 years ago. PD record is 2m-4m ,and i dont think MINEORO can do better,even the TYON.

Regards

[hung]

I called the members of RS forum to come with me to test the PD but no one wants to come,

See what Geo is saying Ozzy?

C'mon, you're from UK, move your *** from your armchair and go with him to meet Morgan!
What are you afraid of? To be debunkered online in Geoskepthic? You've been so many times that one more time will make no difference...:lol:

It will be a pleasure to watch your face in the video when the PD starts beeping to the gold.:razz:
Max can go too with his Kurt Russel disguise.:D

You and other skepthics here are a peculiar race. One great chance to catch a 'scammer' and you people run and hide like cowards, eh?
Show how brave you are and tell Morgan it's a 'trick of the mind'.:lol::lol::lol:

Skepthics are so amusing...

[Qiaozhi]

You and other skepthics here are a peculiar race. One great chance to catch a 'scammer' and you people run and hide like cowards, eh?
Show how brave you are and tell Morgan it's a 'trick of the mind'.:lol::lol::lol:

Skepthics are so amusing...
So you think Morgan is a "scammer"? :shocked:

IMHO Morgan is honestly reporting his results with the PD. However, these results are difficult to take at face value, especially with the lack of any double-blind testing.

Your attempts at creating fake videos, and spreading bunk, do not help Morgan's cause in any way.

Still no debunkering then?

[Theseus]

Skepthics(sic) are so amusing...

Not nearly as amusing as a self-proclaimed debunker; who never quite gets around to doing any debunkering! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[hung]

So you think Morgan is a "scammer"? :shocked:

No. You think. And always thought.
The RS forum knows very well.
Allways twisting things eh Ozzy? It's genetic, hopeless.

IMHO Morgan is honestly reporting his results with the PD. However, these results are difficult to take at face value, especially with the lack of any double-blind testing.


This is a lie. You are as true as a 2 dollar bill. :lol:

The members of the RS forum know very well you never believed Morgan and made fun of him when he first got results with the PD. Something you never could. To be fair, you were not the only one. Max and others did it too.
It's all there in the RS forum for everybody to see.

Now you pose as an inocent person who wants to erase all your past actions?
What are you? An autist?
Don't be ridiculous. You change your attitude as a tactic to reach your goals.
And you think nobody noticed it?:lol:

You are from UK. You live very close to Morgan. Why are you afraid to join Geo in this trip uh? To feel ashamed? Fearing to reveal your ID?
Let people draw their conclusions.

Anyway, do you want a better debunkering than the one just mentioned toward yourself regarding your twisted and double attitude?

Ozzy, you are a trick of the mind, in your own words...

[Fred]

Hung, you´re being pathetic.
Your personal attacks leads nowhere, are out of the forum rules and prejudicate the thread and people like Morgan Geo and Esteban wich are trying to do something, and sharing what they do.
You should try too to do something usefull,and post something usefull.
Untill so you should better be quiet-you will look smarter.
Honestly.

[Esteban]

Hi Esteban.
Why is not enough a test at his own test field??? If i will see the PD to working, i will tell here it. If it don't working, i will tell you ...NOT.
If someone don't believe me.... it is his problem, not mine. I paid the tickets, hotel and car for to see the PD from Morgan working. I told on this forum if any other of the RS team wants to come with me but not response. Now why i must go to a lot of places to take video of the PD?? We want to learn if PD works ok (if Morgan say the true), and if it is possible to understand why our clone don't work.

Regards:)

Hi Geo

Because our method is try in own test field and after go inland and test in natural areas, sites with relics. This is better way.

Regards

Esteban

[Esteban]

Hi Geo

Because our method is try in own test field and after go inland and test in natural areas, sites with relics. This is better way.

Regards

Esteban

Inland sites:

[Max]

See what Geo is saying Ozzy?

C'mon, you're from UK, move your *** from your armchair and go with him to meet Morgan!
What are you afraid of? To be debunkered online in Geoskepthic? You've been so many times that one more time will make no difference...:lol:

It will be a pleasure to watch your face in the video when the PD starts beeping to the gold.:razz:
Max can go too with his Kurt Russel disguise.:D

You and other skepthics here are a peculiar race. One great chance to catch a 'scammer' and you people run and hide like cowards, eh?
Show how brave you are and tell Morgan it's a 'trick of the mind'.:lol::lol::lol:

Skepthics are so amusing...

Hmmmm... Dr Hung I'd like really be there... but I can't , already explained to Morgan... and I'm not desperate on the armchair... I'm just waiting for the video.

I've already an idea of PD and what can do really... but you already know.

Now lets look for video... and of course debunkering...

if you're ready... I mean... or

maybe Brazil nuts make you nuts ??? :D

seems they are not so healthy...maybe they fried up your last neuron there...:lol:

Misteries of LRL land!

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

If I lived in somewhere close, I would definitely be there to see with my own eyes and take videos.

I think Morgan will demonstrate his LRLs including the Mineoro challenge regardless of any propaganda hung posts. Morgan and Geo will not let hung stop them from posting videos of what they observe :)

Best wishes to Morgan and Geo in their effort to show the forum what these LRLs really will do.
J_P

[hung]

you´re being pathetic.
Your personal attacks leads nowhere, are out of the forum rules and prejudicate the thread and people like Morgan Geo and Esteban wich are trying to do something, and sharing what they do.
You should try too to do something usefull,and post something usefull.
Untill so you should better be quiet-you will look smarter.
Honestly.

Your words above fit perfectly yourself and your brothers in arms skepthics. Pay attention to your words and also pay attention to who really started all this circus. It was not me and unfortunately it won't be me either who will have the power to stop.
Respect to be respected remember?
This is the first rule of good etiquete. Maybe out of skepthics dictionary?:rolleyes:

[Fred]

Your words above fit perfectly yourself and your brothers in arms skepthics....

Thank you Hung!
I see you understood my point and you are following it.I knew you could still recognise good sense when you see it.
But that i am making no war, and i need no army :razz:

[Max]

Thank you Hung!
I see you understood my point and you are following it.I knew you could still recognise good sense when you see it.
But that i am making no war, and i need no army :razz:

yes... but...

a man without a "war" ???

What's the sense of that ???

A man need, at least, a war at a time otherwise there's no fun! :lol:

Now... the concept it's not about bombing here and there...for "war" one could mean also some important (to you) "thing to do".

Like skeptics do here... demistifing LRL scams and paint rollers...

Kind of a war... between science and non-sense...

So you silent skeptics that belive in facts, proofs and science join the army now! :D

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

yes... but...

a man without a "war" ???

What's the sense of that ???

A man need, at least, a war at a time otherwise there's no fun! :lol:

Now... the concept it's not about bombing here and there...for "war" one could mean also some important (to you) "thing to do".

Like skeptics do here... demistifing LRL scams and paint rollers...

Kind of a war... between science and non-sense...

So you silent skeptics that belive in facts, proofs and science join the army now! :D

Kind regards,
Max
Yes but war has an agressive connotation, i prefer a "quest" for example...im a pacific guy :)

[Max]

Yes but war has an agressive connotation, i prefer a "quest" for example...im a pacific guy :)

Hmmmm....
yes , I like aggressive connotations... and wars...

At least there's truth (maybe sad) but truth in wars... just you have to look and you'll realize the big plans behind any claimed "good reason" for to make a war!

I think wars are all around us, it's just matter if you wanna see them or not. And aren't just killing people by rifles and bombs... today there are really fine methods to steal, injure and kill much more than with common so called "weapons".

Like spreading toxic wastes in poor countries, or let some chinese people die from cancer related to some western made product recycle, or say getting oil, gas, uranium etc from some (always) poor countries and let people there inhale, ingest and drink all the c.r.a.p. produced by refining and processes related.

It's politics, it's economy and it's really capitalistic oriented way of doing.
Not that communism was immune to that, the opposite! :D

Also, I think many "pacific guys" (not you , of course) will gladly put hands on rifles and bombs and napalms if they'll lose otherwise a fraction of their money or power... I refer much to some hypocrites popstars...or industry guru or politicians... that buy diamonds to their dogs in the meantime! :lol:

These people are the worse of all... claim peace for everyone... but will not think twice to detach your arms if you'll try to cut a 1% to their dirty percentage...:rolleyes:

So what ?

Ok... you're a pacific guy and I will not discuss that, I respect that...fine for you... fine for me.

But it's a dirty world out here. Or do you think majority of people are for peace for everyone ??? ;)

No... it's matter of interests, it's matter of greed, it's matter of ego!

The confirm evrybody can see ...is that United Nations on REAL SERIOUS ISSUES serve nothing and count as ZERO: who has the power use it for its dirty interests... and all the rest simply doesn' matter. That's today world order, much like yesterday one... like always it was.

Do you belive Roman Empire make all that conquers just to give some civilization to poor barbarians !??? :lol:

Or just to feed romans and make them rich and let they have all kind of moods ? Think about...

Or do you think president Obama and other country politicians... will really change that way of doing!? :D

Do you really belive our US friends (but same apply to all western countries/citizens) will renounce to their privileges just cause they wanna peace for anyone ??? :lol:

You are an optimist if so. ;)

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

Hmmmm....
yes , I like aggressive connotations... and wars...

At least there's truth (maybe sad) but truth in wars... just you have to look and you'll realize the big plans behind any claimed "good reason" for to make a war!

I think wars are all around us, it's just matter if you wanna see them or not. And aren't just killing people by rifles and bombs... today there are really fine methods to steal, injure and kill much more than with common so called "weapons".

Like spreading toxic wastes in poor countries, or let some chinese people die from cancer related to some western made product recycle, or say getting oil, gas, uranium etc from some (always) poor countries and let people there inhale, ingest and drink all the c.r.a.p. produced by refining and processes related.

It's politics, it's economy and it's really capitalistic oriented way of doing.
Not that communism was immune to that, the opposite! :D

Also, I think many "pacific guys" (not you , of course) will gladly put hands on rifles and bombs and napalms if they'll lose otherwise a fraction of their money or power... I refer much to some hypocrites popstars...or industry guru or politicians... that buy diamonds to their dogs in the meantime! :lol:

These people are the worse of all... claim peace for everyone... but will not think twice to detach your arms if you'll try to cut a 1% to their dirty percentage...:rolleyes:

So what ?

Ok... you're a pacific guy and I will not discuss that, I respect that...fine for you... fine for me.

But it's a dirty world out here. Or do you think majority of people are for peace for everyone ??? ;)

No... it's matter of interests, it's matter of greed, it's matter of ego!

The confirm evrybody can see ...is that United Nations on REAL SERIOUS ISSUES serve nothing and count as ZERO: who has the power use it for its dirty interests... and all the rest simply doesn' matter. That's today world order, much like yesterday one... like always it was.

Do you belive Roman Empire make all that conquers just to give some civilization to poor barbarians !??? :lol:

Or just to feed romans and make them rich and let they have all kind of moods ? Think about...

Or do you think president Obama and other country politicians... will really change that way of doing!? :D

Do you really belive our US friends (but same apply to all western countries/citizens) will renounce to their privileges just cause they wanna peace for anyone ??? :lol:

You are an optimist if so. ;)

Kind regards,
Max
Hi Max,
I am an optimist, and just because the world is ruled by bad guys doens´t mean i must be one.
Yes i believe Obama can make some diference, you have to begin somewhere.
This is a vicious circle, war brings war.And yes, i believe majority of people is for peace for everyone.
I do believe most problems in society comes from a minority.

Problem is the basis of democracy: as long as candidates to elections will need to fight to win their own power, they will be the wrong persons for leadership (except rare exceptions).The very fact that they want to be elected should already rule them out.
Did you notice that most of the time our choise to vote is between a bad and a worst guy.Then when "your" candiddate wins you feel happy.

I have no miraculous solution however-but there must be one- :)
Best regards,
Fred.

[Qiaozhi]

No. You think. And always thought.
The RS forum knows very well.
Always twisting things eh Ozzy? It's genetic, hopeless.
Your selective memory is at work once again. At no time have I ever called Morgan a liar. My position concerning the PD is very clear and has remained unchanged throughout the RS Project. Morgan is reporting his experiences honestly, but it is the interpretation of the results that are in question. Your continued refusal to test any of these devices in a controlled double-blind test, highlights the fact that you are frightened of the results.

This is a lie. You are as true as a 2 dollar bill. :lol:
A number of skeptics here agreed to take part in the back-engineering of Morgan's PD, and I think it is fair to say that Morgan would not currently be in a position to demonstrate a clone to Geo without our assistance. If only your "help" had been available, the PD clone would most likely now be sporting a cheap calculator hot-glued to the top of the case, together with ludicrous claims of detection at 2km. or even further. :lol:

The members of the RS forum know very well you never believed Morgan and made fun of him when he first got results with the PD. Something you never could. To be fair, you were not the only one. Max and others did it too.
It's all there in the RS forum for everybody to see.
I see your goldfish memory is still active. You must learn to concentrate more. :razz:

Now you pose as an inocent person who wants to erase all your past actions?
What are you? An autist?
Don't be ridiculous. You change your attitude as a tactic to reach your goals.
And you think nobody noticed it?:lol:
My position concerning the PD is unchanged. It appears to be a combination of the Gold Gun and an old Heathkit design.

You are from UK. You live very close to Morgan. Why are you afraid to join Geo in this trip uh? To feel ashamed? Fearing to reveal your ID?
Let people draw their conclusions.
It is not up to the skeptics to disprove your outrageous claims. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and you need to supply that evidence. You may recall, I stated earlier, that there is a silver tea tray in orbit about the Earth, and I challenged you to prove me wrong. So far I have seen nothing from you to dispute my claim. :rolleyes:

Anyway, do you want a better debunkering than the one just mentioned toward yourself regarding your twisted and double attitude?
Still no sign of the debunkering then? Just more tactics designed to avoid answering a direct question.

Ozzy, you are a trick of the mind, in your own words...You seem to be getting yourself confused. None of the skeptics here are using mind tricks for the purposes of long-range wallet mining.

At the end of the day, Morgan's PD is the only device we have encountered that is worthy of investigation. Any device (such as modified RTs, and the like) with ridiculous claims of 2km or more range, are just too ludicrous to be taken seriously. My expectation is that the PD would fail a controlled double-blind test, but that does not imply that I think Morgan is lying. You are the only one who is making those claims on our behalf. Human beings have a great capacity for self-deception, and I fully expect this to be the case here. Of course, there are always some who are willing to believe anything without a shred of evidence. Perhaps you already believe there's a silver tea tray up there in orbit, and don't need any proof. :razz:

[Morgan]

If I lived in somewhere close, I would definitely be there to see with my own eyes and take videos.

I think Morgan will demonstrate his LRLs including the Mineoro challenge regardless of any propaganda hung posts. Morgan and Geo will not let hung stop them from posting videos of what they observe :)

Best wishes to Morgan and Geo in their effort to show the forum what these LRLs really will do.
J_P
Hello

When Geo arrive,he will test the original PD and two more PD clones i have build. Also he can try 3 diferent Mineoro LRL models.
He will see that i never lie to this forum and i´m interested in LRL´s performance and development.
I think Pistoldetektors are the future in TH ;)

Regards

[michael]

..... At no time have I ever called Morgan a liar. My position concerning the PD is very clear and has remained unchanged throughout the RS Project. Morgan is reporting his experiences honestly, but it is the interpretation of the results that are in question. Your continued refusal to test any of these devices in a controlled double-blind test, highlights the fact that you are frightened of the results.Excuse me Qiaozhi, but when I saw this couldn't abide not put a post:
You are pointing to respect a man, a member, a user honesty;
but when I compare it with your strategy and habits, is hard (at least for me) to believe your honesty.
as you have frequently showed this before you can't respect other experiences which are unfamiliar to you and you at once charge the guy as a liar unless the matter guy post here be coincident and match with your believes or experiences. PD working is exact the same not an exception . now you've changed your strategy and talk about honesty.
BTW; you had ridiculled Morgan few times. for god sake, man be a little honest we are not forgetful.:D


A number of skeptics here agreed to take part in the back-engineering of Morgan's PD, and I think it is fair to say that Morgan would not currently be in a position to demonstrate a clone to Geo without our assistance.This is right, and me personally by my share, again say thank you for your efforts and appreciable helps.
You, Max, Fred and others. of course should not forget about Hung works in the team, at least what he found and corrected about the switch connections which changed the result and took PD to working attitude; my own PD after his points started to work. thanks a lot for all of you efforts which I never forget by all my life.
I told, we're not forgetful, I remember events very clearly.;)
a man who doesn't thank people, won't thank god.


At the end of the day, Morgan's PD is the only device we have encountered that is worthy of investigation. Any device (such as modified RTs, and the like) with ridiculous claims of 2km or more range, are just too ludicrous to be taken seriously. My expectation is that the PD would fail a controlled double-blind test, but that does not imply that I think Morgan is lying......
I told you your comparison standard is only your own data, if you're honest and respect to Morgan as an honest man, ask him about other kinds of LRLs which you call them all useless, see what he tells you.
other types of LRLs work, but are different, by this time PD for me was the best and the most easy use.
other types like MFDs work as well but are boring and time taking. this is different than call them decisively 100% useless.
as I know Morgan has used many of L-rod type locators and his Spanish friend owns some of them that is very satisfied about.
I after getting MDL which is best detector for us to search deserts both for LRLing and pinpointing not necessary to use L-rods or even PD for LRLing.
now I use L rods for best depth determining and what a good devices to me for this purpose, but you should know how to use them. in my believes any detector has its' own language and usefulness that operator should be at first familiar to it, otherwise get no result even GPRs, MDs,... and groans; it doesn't work, it's junk, it's a crap ,......
BTW; I noticed when you have no tough logical explanation tell this as an excuse:
Human beings have a great capacity for self-deception. this not the way.

[WM6]

I think Pistoldetektors are the future in TH ;)



O je, for sure, pistol particularly. For bank treasure.

[Qiaozhi]

Excuse me Qiaozhi, but when I saw this couldn't abide not put a post:
You are pointing to respect a man, a member, a user honesty;
but when I compare it with your strategy and habits, is hard (at least for me) to believe your honesty.
as you have frequently showed this before you can't respect other experiences which are unfamiliar to you and you at once charge the guy as a liar unless the matter guy post here be coincident and match with your believes or experiences. PD working is exact the same not an exception . now you've changed your strategy and talk about honesty.
BTW; you had ridiculled Morgan few times. for god sake, man be a little honest we are not forgetful.:D
Hi Michael,

Please point out where I have called Morgan a liar.
On numerous occasions I have stated that Morgan is honestly reporting his experience, but I do not blindly agree with his conclusions. There is nothing wrong with that.

The skeptics here have repeatedly asked for a simple LRL design (not L-rod based) that we can build ourselves and then test whether the claims of the LRL proponents are correct. Despite months, of even years, of requesting this information, nothing has ever been provided. Then ... along came Morgan ... who asked us for help in cloning a friend's PD. Several copies were made, and both Morgan and Hung claimed to have contructed working devices. Of coure, Morgan had a major advantage in that he could compare his clone with the original. Hung's contribution was to post a fake video. And yes - it is a fake. I have pointed out many anomalies in the video, and provided every opportunity for Hung to respond to the criticism. On every occasion he has simply ignored any comments, and expected us accept the video as proof. Morgan has also posted videos, which I have never criticized as being fake. However, I did point out that these videos can not be accepted as "proof". Only controlled double-blind testing can provide this information. I do not know enough about your own cloned PD to comment.

This is right, and me personally by my share, again say thank you for your efforts and appreciable helps.
You, Max, Fred and others. of course should not forget about Hung works in the team, at least what he found and corrected about the switch connections which changed the result and took PD to working attitude; my own PD after his points started to work. thanks a lot for all of you efforts which I never forget by all my life.
I told, we're not forgetful, I remember events very clearly.;)
a man who doesn't thank people, won't thank god.
Thank you. You are welcome. ;)
This was an interesting project, that was difficult to execute with both skeptics and proponents involved. However, things could have been easier if fake videos had been kept out of the equation.
I'm also not sure what contribution Hung provided regarding the switch. As I recall, there was never any agreement regarding the switch wiring, and Hung just threw in some vague comments to confuse everything, plus some sarcastic comments about the skeptics' ability to back-engineer the device.

I told you your comparison standard is only your own data, if you're honest and respect to Morgan as an honest man, ask him about other kinds of LRLs which you call them all useless, see what he tells you.
other types of LRLs work, but are different, by this time PD for me was the best and the most easy use.
other types like MFDs work as well but are boring and time taking. this is different than call them decisively 100% useless.
as I know Morgan has used many of L-rod type locators and his Spanish friend owns some of them that is very satisfied about.
Any LRL that relies on a rotating handle (i.e. a dowsing rod) is 100% useless. This is my conclusion. Take it or leave it.
I am still keeping an open mind concerning the PD, but we do need objective, rather than subjective, proof.

I after getting MDL which is best detector for us to search deserts both for LRLing and pinpointing not necessary to use L-rods or even PD for LRLing.
The MDL is a PI, and has nothing to do with LRLs.
Also, many people here (mostly skeptics) have tried to assist you in tracing the origin of this detector.

now I use L rods for best depth determining and what a good devices to me for this purpose, but you should know how to use them. in my believes any detector has its' own language and usefulness that operator should be at first familiar to it, otherwise get no result even GPRs, MDs,... and groans; it doesn't work, it's junk, it's a crap ,......
Many tests have been performed over the years concerning dowsing, and the results are loud and clear. Dowsing produces results that are no better than guessing.
http://sites.google.com/site/dowsingtruth/

BTW; I noticed when you have no tough logical explanation tell this as an excuse:
Human beings have a great capacity for self-deception. this not the way.
I think you will find that this is also a "tough logical explanation". Human beings are capable of huge self-deceptions. You need to be very aware of this when searching for the truth.

[hung]

Michael,

Don't bother to answer Q... Definetely he's not worth it.

Your explanation about his attitutes are perfect and exposes his personality in a true and dramatic way.

He's just an 'incident' in this forum.

Forget about him. He has never made any substantial difference here and probably never will.

**********

Keep me informed on your site expedition. Unlike some here, I do believe you are really on the right track.

Regards.

[Qiaozhi]

Michael,

Don't bother to answer Q... Definetely he's not worth it.

Your explanation about his attitutes are perfect and exposes his personality in a true and dramatic way.

He's just an 'incident' in this forum.

Forget about him. He has never made any substantial difference here and probably never will.

**********

Keep me informed on your site expedition. Unlike some here, I do believe you are really on the right track.

Regards.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Lost for words? :notalk:

And what about answering the questions concerning your faked video?
Or are you too busy getting ready for the debunkering? :razz:

[Max]

Michael,

Don't bother to answer Q... Definetely he's not worth it.

Your explanation about his attitutes are perfect and exposes his personality in a true and dramatic way.

He's just an 'incident' in this forum.

Forget about him. He has never made any substantial difference here and probably never will.

**********

Keep me informed on your site expedition. Unlike some here, I do believe you are really on the right track.

Regards.

Dr. Hung... why don't you claim you mapped the (not existing) gold-DNA ??? :lol:

I like your science fictions... and dynamite stories...:D

And , of course, I like your red hairs... :razz:

Kind regards,
Max

[hung]

AHello

When Geo arrive,he will test the original PD and two more PD clones i have build. Also he can try 3 diferent Mineoro LRL models.
He will see that i never lie to this forum and i´m interested in LRL´s performance and development.
I think Pistoldetektors are the future in TH ;)

Regards

Hi Morgan,

The same tests you will perform in your back yard, I have done also in mine.
Only difference is that your gold medal is buried longer than the gold sample I placed in my garden, which is about a year buried now. So, a relatively weak ionic field. I already tested my PD on it and it beeps from 3 meters. The PDC210 gets it from a little more but it does not 'sustain' detection. Beeps vanish. The Tyon was the only one that I could get a sustained detection from 7 meters even on cloudy and humid days. In these days detection distance was reduced.

I know you own a DC2006, a DC2008 and probably a PDC210. I have no doubt these machines are capable of getting your medal from a relative distance and your main complain seems your difficulty in pinpoint it or have a sustained beeping so you know where the target is.

Although you might have some experience with your machines, I think it's worth giving you some hints that you might not being aware or maybe not tried yet.
First of all, since 2004, I have tested Mineoros in about all kinds of expeditions, situations and different imaginable scenarios, so I developed many particular techiniques being one of them the one bellow for small items.

First of all, the ionic chambers of the mentioned Mineoro models 'consume' the ionic fields of small or not so long time buried objects. How fast and severe, will depend on many factors which include the local weather at the time, period of day and also different circuit amplifiers conected to the chamber.
I have noticed that later Mineoro models consume weak ionic fields faster than the PDC did. Once they field 'track' is consumed, then comes the 'random beeps' you refer, as there's not sufficient grid anymore to allow tracking.
So I suggest one good aproach you can try yourself in your tests which have always worked very well for me in pinpointing small items.

1 - Since the PD has an oscilator stage, use it as the last device to be tested, as this oscilator will vanish temporarily the local ionic fields.

2 - If your medal is buried for more than 2 years or so, stand from about 10 to 15 meters and turn any of your Mineoros. Say, your DC2008. You can use the DC2006, but the first is easier and faster to calibrate. Set for max sens and point to the target, when the beep is heard, go walking towards it, but do not freeze the chamber, pointing directly to the target. But keep scanning the device from left to right until you perceive the beeps focusing. In case it looses signal, it's because it already has 'consumed' a portion of the field. The try the following which works for me. Grab the center&deep accessory and have Geo or someone to move and touch the antenna on the ground close to the target's buried location. The C&D will pinpoint the target as you will hear beeps when it's over it.

The PD's advantage is the MD section which helps the pinponting, although it has less range than the models above.

This C&D procedure is well used by users here in Brazil who search in the beach for small gold items. Although I know that some just don't have the patience or expertise to do it and end up using a regular MD for the final pinpointing.

Later series of FG80 and now the Tyon and FG90 do not require the C&D to be used. But with some practice, the older models may do it too.
Esteban and Alonso for instance, detected a gold watch using the DC2006 some years ago and I think they did not use the C&D for pinpointing.

You also have told me that your friends detected treasure using one of your detectors. Do you know the size of it? Did they pinpoint ok?

So this is a suggestion you might use for your testings regarding the Mineoros and you could tell me the results later.

Best regards.

[J_Player]

Hi Morgan,
The same tests you will perform in your back yard, I have done also in mine.
Only difference is that your gold medal is buried longer than the gold sample I placed in my garden, which is about a year buried now. So, a relatively weak ionic field. I already tested my PD on it and it beeps from 3 meters.

...bla, bla, bla....

Although you might have some experience with your machines, I think it's worth giving you some hints that you might not being aware or maybe not tried yet. First of all, since 2004, I have tested Mineoros in about all kinds of expeditions, situations and different imaginable scenarios, so I developed many particular techiniques being one of them the one bellow for small items.

...If your medal is buried for more than 2 years or so, stand from about 10 to 15 meters and turn any of your Mineoros. Say, your DC2008. You can use the DC2006, but the first is easier to faster to calibrate. Set for max sens and point to the target, when the beep is heard, go walking towards it, but do not freeze the chamber, pointing directly to the target. But keep scanning the device from left to right until you perceive the beeps focusing. In case it looses signal, it's because it already has 'consumed' a portion of the field. The try the following which works for me. Grab the center&deep accessory and have Geo or someone to move and touch the antenna on the ground close to the target's buried location. The C&D will pinpoint the target as you will hear beeps when it's over it.

Bla, bla, bla....Nice try, hung.
Now that you see Morgan will be demonstrating Mineoro LRLs alongside his other LRLs, you find it necessary to dictate instructions of how he should conduct his tests. What's wrong? are you afraid the Mineoros will not perform too well? You find it necessary to coach Morgan to tell him how to conduct the tests?

First you say the only difference between your test and Morgan's test is his metal is buried longer: "Only difference is that your gold medal is buried longer than the gold sample I placed in my garden, which is about a year buried now." But this is not true.
There are many differences. He buried it in soil with different composition than you, and he is conducting his test in a different continent. Don't you remember all the reports from Mineoro users who say it does not work in Europe? Do you recall forum posts suggesting that Mineoro works only in Brazil and nearby countries?

Then you tell Morgan what is the proper procedure to test Minero LRLs. How strange! Why hasn't Mineoro published these instructions on their website if they are necessary to insure good detection? Is it possible that you are just making up new instructions that Mineoro does not approve, and would never publish on their website?

It seems to me that Morgan has many years of experience in hunting treasure using Mineoro and many other kinds of long range detectors. He also posted some believable evidence to support his claims of a working LRL. Now that he has decided to demonstrate what he said is true, you are not satisfied to allow him to proceed unless he does so by the methods you dictate.

I congratulate Morgan for proceeding with his demonstration to show the true facts so we can see it live in front of our eyes, without interference from people who want him to change his test procedure for their purposes. Morgan will let the truth be known and seen for all who want to watch! :super:

Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

humhum, check your PM.

[Morgan]

Nice try, hung.
Now that you see Morgan will be demonstrating Mineoro LRLs alongside his other LRLs, you find it necessary to dictate instructions of how he should conduct his tests. What's wrong? are you afraid the Mineoros will not perform too well? You find it necessary to coach Morgan to tell him how to conduct the tests?

First you say the only difference between your test and Morgan's test is his metal is buried longer: "Only difference is that your gold medal is buried longer than the gold sample I placed in my garden, which is about a year buried now." But this is not true.
There are many differences. He buried it in soil with different composition than you, and he is conducting his test in a different continent. Don't you remember all the reports from Mineoro users who say it does not work in Europe? Do you recall forum posts suggesting that Mineoro works only in Brazil and nearby countries?

Then you tell Morgan what is the proper procedure to test Minero LRLs. How strange! Why hasn't Mineoro published these instructions on their website if they are necessary to insure good detection? Is it possible that you are just making up new instructions that Mineoro does not approve, and would never publish on their website?

It seems to me that Morgan has many years of experience in hunting treasure using Mineoro and many other kinds of long range detectors. He also posted some believable evidence to support his claims of a working LRL. Now that he has decided to demonstrate what he said is true, you are not satisfied to allow him to proceed unless he does so by the methods you dictate.

I congratulate Morgan for proceeding with his demonstration to show the true facts so we can see it live in front of our eyes, without interference from people who want him to change his test procedure for their purposes. Morgan will let the truth be known and seen for all who want to watch! :super:

Best wishes,
J_P
I start metal detection with 16 years old. In my first day of search using one old MD Mscope ORION,i found near old house one gold ring and some coins.
Much later i buy my first Motion detector,the Compass Liberty 150,this brings to me better finds and good iron discrimination.
I born in 68,start MD with 16 y.o.,detect in many countries,use many diferent MD´s,i have made a lot of tests,found interesting spots. So i can say i have some experience...

[Geo]

Hi.

Yesterday i came back from holidays and today i went to check again the MFD at the point with the buried copper coins. First i went at midday (13:00) and the temp was 34oC. I took again some beeps near the coins, but without the ability to pinpoint them.
I went again at afternoon to night (21:15) and the temp was 29oC. No Beeps...:angry::angry:. Why???? When i adjust the sensitivity at a crirtical point i have an increase to the audio and some times more light on the led. I closed the pot of audio and i had not any change in the light of the leds. So.... what happening????:frown:
When i made this project, i remembered that Esteban uses a radio together with the detector so to have two detectors. When the audio beeps then i have a little change on the light of the leds, because the LM3915 is suplied directly from the 9V without power stabilizer. So maybe at the midday, the radio to receives a station or the "phenomenon", and it make the buzer to beeps and the led to lights. But on night it don't receive any station or the "phenomenon" and so with audio potentiometer closed, nothing is happening.
Who is your opinion......
Esteban what are you say for it???, i have both outputs connected to a buzzer.

Regards:)

[Esteban]

Hi.

Yesterday i came back from holidays and today i went to check again the MFD at the point with the buried copper coins. First i went at midday (13:00) and the temp was 34oC. I took again some beeps near the coins, but without the ability to pinpoint them.
I went again at afternoon to night (21:15) and the temp was 29oC. No Beeps...:angry::angry:. Why???? When i adjust the sensitivity at a crirtical point i have an increase to the audio and some times more light on the led. I closed the pot of audio and i had not any change in the light of the leds. So.... what happening????:frown:
When i made this project, i remembered that Esteban uses a radio together with the detector so to have two detectors. When the audio beeps then i have a little change on the light of the leds, because the LM3915 is suplied directly from the 9V without power stabilizer. So maybe at the midday, the radio to receives a station or the "phenomenon", and it make the buzer to beeps and the led to lights. But on night it don't receive any station or the "phenomenon" and so with audio potentiometer closed, nothing is happening.
Who is your opinion......
Esteban what are you say for it???, i have both outputs connected to a buzzer.

Regards:)

Hi Geo

You need only a buzzer, for audio part, no for led part. Sometimes when led bright is in coincidence with audio, but no always occurs this. My absorptive pistol works at night (no high temperature), but was with spiral coil, I remember this was nude, this mean the wire exposed. But spiral coil is more sensitive and you need to put in best sensibility point, no random.

Regards

Esteban

[Max]

Hi Geo

You need only a buzzer, for audio part, no for led part. Sometimes when led bright is in coincidence with audio, but no always occurs this. My absorptive pistol works at night (no high temperature), but was with spiral coil, I remember this was nude, this mean the wire exposed. But spiral coil is more sensitive and you need to put in best sensibility point, no random.

Regards

Esteban

Understand anything... as always...

Is not that he gets just randomic beeps... due maybe to some background noise that has nothing to do with treasures! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Geo]

Hi Geo

You need only a buzzer, for audio part, no for led part. Sometimes when led bright is in coincidence with audio, but no always occurs this. My absorptive pistol works at night (no high temperature), but was with spiral coil, I remember this was nude, this mean the wire exposed. But spiral coil is more sensitive and you need to put in best sensibility point, no random.

Regards

Esteban


Hi Esteban.

Who is then min temperature that yoyr MFD gave you good results ????

Regards:)

[Geo]

Is not that he gets just randomic beeps... due maybe to some background noise that has nothing to do with treasures! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

Hi Max.

At the place where i test my MFD, i have buried some copper coins before 18...19 years. So when i take a beep from this place, it is from coins.
When it is a background noise, then i get it at every point and place.

Regards:)

[Geo]

Hi.
Yesterday i made the same test at the place with the buried copper coins.
I don't know what is happening with other metals but with copper the temperature is a very critical point in the working of the LRLs.
I went for the test at 13:00 and the temp was 36oC. The MFD located the place with coins from 5m very easy. Also yesterday i had the ability to pinpoint it at a distance of about 60...80 cm from the coins. When i was exactly on the coins i had not any indicator. Very good...:):)
But :angry::angry:..... on afternoon i went again. Time was 20:45 and the Temperature was 31oC. Results.... ZERO. Yes no one beep. The led did not light a little.
I don't know what is happening with other metals, but with copper at my Country this method is not good.
I will try for silver detecting when a frind of me will come back from holidays.


Regards:)

[Theseus]

This is just a casual observation from a rather uninvolved and only slightly interested bystander; but don't you think your results are a little too random to be of any real significance? :|

I mean, I used to setup and test electronic and electromechanical devices for a living, and frankly it seems like temperature may not have anything to do with the inconsistencies of your results.

First, I would verify the concept in a controlled laboratory environment, before I ever tried it in the field. If you can't make it work in a controlled situation (minus temp changes) then you certainly don't have chance of making it work where more of the conditions are variable. ;)

[Fred]

First, I would verify the concept in a controlled laboratory environment, before I ever tried it in the field.
You can´t,if it must b long-time buried and interact with some natural fields.

[Esteban]

Hi Esteban.

Who is then min temperature that yoyr MFD gave you good results ????

Regards:)

More important is wet in air than temperature. Excess of wet "shortcircuit" the field.


Regards

[Max]

More important is wet in air than temperature. Excess of wet "shortcircuit" the field.


Regards

:lol:
these LRLs are too freakish to me... leave them to you! :razz:

I don't wanna the LRL will tell me how to pi$$ otherwise it stop working! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Theseus]

You can´t,if it must b long-time buried and interact with some natural fields.

I respectfully disagree. If the concept (premise) is valid and repeatable, there has got to be a way to create an emulation of the "field" ???? being sensed, even if it is not a real "field". Further, perhaps the "field" in the emulation would be of greater strength than you would ever see in "real life", but at least you would know when you were sensing something, or if your device was merely sensing random noise because the gain was turned up too high.

To reach a conclusion, there must be an established level of response in relation to a given amount of background (ambient) noise.

Without a starting point of this nature, you will only ever go in greater and greater circles of confusion and uncertainty.

Essentially, "chasing your tail" towards infinity, without ever solving the problem; or worse yet identifying the correct problem.

[Fred]

I know, this is why i am not chasing anything except an explanation of the theory.
But if the device detect a small change in RF noise because of changes of soil resistivity or/and changes in the voltage gradient above earth, it could be tested but probably only in a specially made laboratory:Any electric device or floor material will detroy the effect, even if artificially made.

[J_Player]

This is just a casual observation from a rather uninvolved and only slightly interested bystander; but don't you think your results are a little too random to be of any real significance? :|

I mean, I used to setup and test electronic and electromechanical devices for a living, and frankly it seems like temperature may not have anything to do with the inconsistencies of your results.

First, I would verify the concept in a controlled laboratory environment, before I ever tried it in the field. If you can't make it work in a controlled situation (minus temp changes) then you certainly don't have chance of making it work where more of the conditions are variable. ;)I was thinking the same thing.
From what I know that has been observed by scientists who study long-time buried metals, the most likely strong influences are in the electric field in the air. This field is heavily influenced by humidity and weather conditions. There are also sources of electric noise that interfere with detection of electric field strength in the air at different times of the day. Temperature may play a role, but my feeling is it is a minor role, and may only be an artifact of the real physical properties that are influencing the detection.

As far as laboratory conditions, I would suggest taking the laboratory to the field, and set it up in a manner that cannot interfere with the electric field and other known anomalies that develop around long-time buried metals.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

More important is wet in air than temperature. Excess of wet "shortcircuit" the field.


Regards

Hi Esteban.
I agree but simple i write what i see at my experiments. If i had an answer there was not reason to write anything

Regards:)

[Theseus]

As far as laboratory conditions, I would suggest taking the laboratory to the field, and set it up in a manner that cannot interfere with the electric field and other known anomalies that develop around long-time buried metals.

Best wishes,
J_P

Exactly! At least "start" eliminating ALL those parameters that could influence the result, until only the true "field(?)" as their theory defines - remains.

Until that is the course of action, all other random observations and results(?) are completely futile.

Nobody said making technology advancements would be easy - but if all we are dealing with here is fringe technology based on random uncontrolled observations, than perhaps it is time to accept the fact that it simply is not a valid concept; ....and move on.

[Geo]

Exactly! At least "start" eliminating ALL those parameters that could influence the result, until only the true "field(?)" as their theory defines - remains.

Until that is the course of action, all other random observations and results(?) are completely futile.

Nobody said making technology advancements would be easy - but if all we are dealing with here is fringe technology based on random uncontrolled observations, than perhaps it is time to accept the fact that it simply is not a valid concept; ....and move on.


I agree with all of you ( i don't have any theory to give to you), but PLEASE explain me why every midday with temp >34oC i can locate the buried objects very good???. It is a experiment. I write the results.
If you don't have answer :(, you can't reject the results of the experiment. I am not a physic.... but guys that are physics please let give a answer.
But please not again as the dowsing:nono:, "we can't answer how it work, so it don't work :lol:"

Regards:)

[Qiaozhi]

But please not again as the dowsing:nono:, "we can't answer how it work, so it don't work :lol:"
:lol: That's like asking a man - "When did you stop beating your wife?" :lol:

The question makes certain assumptions. ;)

[Theseus]

I agree with all of you ( i don't have any theory to give to you), but PLEASE explain me why every midday with temp >34oC i can locate the buried objects very good???. It is a experiment. I write the results.
If you don't have answer :(, you can't reject the results of the experiment. I am not a physic.... but guys that are physics please let give a answer.
But please not again as the dowsing:nono:, "we can't answer how it work, so it don't work :lol:"

Regards:)

First, dowsing is a poor example to use as an analogy. Why? Because, to my knowledge, every single time the practice of dowsing has been fairly tested under controlled and monitored conditions, it has been shown to NOT work any better than what could be expected from ordinary "guessing" (chance results). In that regard, answering a question about how it works is by default making the assumption that it does work, when clearly the practice of dowsing does not work in the first place.

Secondly... Yes, results of experiments may be rejected, especially if under close examination by multiple observers, the conditions of the test protocol are found to be lacking in controls and/or poor design criteria.

I cannot be a true observer of your experiment from this distance, only offer valid suggestions based on the scant information you place here; hence cannot render an opinion about your protocol or design. However, as one who has prior experience in the design and implementation of testing procedures, I was merely offering the suggestion to; "start" eliminating ALL those parameters that could influence the result, until only the true "field(?)" as their theory defines - remains.

As far as your question; why every midday with temp >34oC i can locate the buried objects very good???

My best educated guess (from this distance) would be you probably have a temperature sensitive component in your LRL detecting device and it is giving you a false result above a certain temperature.

I still contend you first need to eliminate the parameter of temperature change from the experiment, and identify/quantify the real "field"(?) you believe you are measuring.

[Max]

I agree with all of you ( i don't have any theory to give to you), but PLEASE explain me why every midday with temp >34oC i can locate the buried objects very good???. It is a experiment. I write the results.
If you don't have answer :(, you can't reject the results of the experiment. I am not a physic.... but guys that are physics please let give a answer.
But please not again as the dowsing:nono:, "we can't answer how it work, so it don't work :lol:"

Regards:)

Hi,
if so... and device have consistent behaviour at 34°C my advice is that you post schematic, diagrams of antenna, instructions for tuning etc... everything.

People with electronic mind will replicate it (hopefully) and start experiments like you... people with physics mind or education could then give an interpretation based on experiments results. :D

I don't see any other way to help you understand this... if it's random or not... if work as LRL or not and how...

Of course, you can choose not to publish schematic etc... but then why ask here for answers nobody can give with so few data ? ;)

Your choice.

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Exactly! At least "start" eliminating ALL those parameters that could influence the result, until only the true "field(?)" as their theory defines - remains.

Until that is the course of action, all other random observations and results(?) are completely futile.

Nobody said making technology advancements would be easy - but if all we are dealing with here is fringe technology based on random uncontrolled observations, than perhaps it is time to accept the fact that it simply is not a valid concept; ....and move on.Yes... More important, some people are forming conclusions based on fringe data collected from fringe technology.

Esteban has a good approach. He says he doesn't know the answers, but he sometimes assumes. I think in most cases his assumptions work, but in some cases, no.

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

I agree with all of you ( i don't have any theory to give to you), but PLEASE explain me why every midday with temp >34oC i can locate the buried objects very good???. It is a experiment. I write the results.
If you don't have answer :(, you can't reject the results of the experiment. I am not a physic.... but guys that are physics please let give a answer.
But please not again as the dowsing:nono:, "we can't answer how it work, so it don't work :lol:"

Regards:)I am not a physicist, but I have talked about picking up these weak signals with an astrophysicist who specialized in locating long time buried metals and other minerals. What he told me is the most important problem with detection is the very small signal is masked by much larger signals that come on a daily cycle. The timing for this cycle will vary a little in different parts of the world. But he told me in North America, he takes his readings between 8:00am morning, and noon. He says that after 2:00 pm afternoon, the signal has deteriorated too much for reliable readings. He found that these times can be shifted more than several hours at different locations on the earth. He found that it is best to take readings, then more readings the next day at the same time to verify the readings are good.

He explained the source of this cycle, which is tied to the solar charging in the outer ionosphere, and he showed me on his instruments that measured a number of geophysical phenomenon that change during this daily cycle. He said that solar storms can upset the daily cycle to make his instruments useless until the solar storm is gone. As I recall, none of this was linked to temperature. He also told me he calibrates his equipment to a null point before making surveys. I think that any temperature compensation is taken care of during his nulling procedure.

Now, maybe in your case, this daily cycle has nothing to do with the confused readings you are finding. Maybe it is only the temperature that is causing inconsistent readings. Somehow, I think there is more to it than just temperature.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi,
to me the thing is really easy: only way to know if "works" like explained is that he will post everything and people will make clones and experiments in e.g. different parts of the world and with different e.g. components etc

Other discussions about this topic can't be useful... cause we are talking of what ?

We don't know schematic he used, we don't know about components, we don't know about antenna details (cause I think there's more/different than posted already), we don't know about tuning procedure, we don't know about test field specifications, we don't know about anything but... that at some temperature (34°C) seems to him device detects something!

I mean... is impossible even making assumptions of any kind... with all that missing details.

It's like say you wanna understand why a TV set lose/mix colors in an attempt to understand and repair it... without opening the cover and don't have schematic or any knowledge base available for faults.

It's plain impossible. Dot.;)

Kind regards,
Max

[Geo]

I am not a physicist, but I have talked about picking up these weak signals with an astrophysicist who specialized in locating long time buried metals and other minerals. What he told me is the most important problem with detection is the very small signal is masked by much larger signals that come on a daily cycle. The timing for this cycle will vary a little in different parts of the world. But he told me in North America, he takes his readings between 8:00am morning, and noon. He says that after 2:00 pm afternoon, the signal has deteriorated too much for reliable readings. He found that these times can be shifted more than several hours at different locations on the earth. He found that it is best to take readings, then more readings the next day at the same time to verify the readings are good.

He explained the source of this cycle, which is tied to the solar charging in the outer ionosphere, and he showed me on his instruments that measured a number of geophysical phenomenon that change during this daily cycle. He said that solar storms can upset the daily cycle to make his instruments useless until the solar storm is gone. As I recall, none of this was linked to temperature. He also told me he calibrates his equipment to a null point before making surveys. I think that any temperature compensation is taken care of during his nulling procedure.

Now, maybe in your case, this daily cycle has nothing to do with the confused readings you are finding. Maybe it is only the temperature that is causing inconsistent readings. Somehow, I think there is more to it than just temperature.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P.
I regard this answer.
Today i was spoke with a friend about the temperature "phenomenon". He told me about the same with you. He has read that the magnetic lines differs from time to time, so i must check the phenomenon and other hours, for example very early the morning.

Regards:)

[Geo]

:lol: That's like asking a man - "When did you stop beating your wife?" :lol:

The question makes certain assumptions. ;)

:???::???::???:

[Geo]

As far as your question; why every midday with temp >34oC i can locate the buried objects very good???

My best educated guess (from this distance) would be you probably have a temperature sensitive component in your LRL detecting device and it is giving you a false result above a certain temperature.

I still contend you first need to eliminate the parameter of temperature change from the experiment, and identify/quantify the real "field"(?) you believe you are measuring.

And why the LRL works only in the line of the buried coins???? Why it don't beep at any other place???
General i don't try to tell all you that it is sure the temperature that makes the LRL to work. Simple i connect the working of LRL every midday with the high temperature. I wrote my results and i liked an answer as J_P.
Maybe i am a strange people but i like answers as "this is not right..... the right is this ... or this... or i read something about it". I don't like answers as "This don't work.... or you have mistake... End"


Anyway... Regards

[Geo]

Hi,
if so... and device have consistent behaviour at 34°C my advice is that you post schematic, diagrams of antenna, instructions for tuning etc... everything.

People with electronic mind will replicate it (hopefully) and start experiments like you... people with physics mind or education could then give an interpretation based on experiments results. :D

I don't see any other way to help you understand this... if it's random or not... if work as LRL or not and how...

Of course, you can choose not to publish schematic etc... but then why ask here for answers nobody can give with so few data ? ;)

Your choice.

Kind regards,
Max


Hi Max.
I don't think that it is bad to put here the results of my experiment!!!!
Schematic is a simple magnet field detector from ELEKTOR (1995 i think). Nothing special so to spend their time the "best electronics" for it. If Carl let me to attach the schematic, No problem.

Regards

[Esteban]

Geo, the MFD works also in cold, here is now minimum 12 ºC, max. 21 ºC, and works. But maybe you must to use the first led bright all the time. Put in on in day and check at night. Is extinguish, readjust preset for leds. Put in this parameter and try. This is made for my cousin Ruben. Consist in 30 turns wire 0.40 mm in a form 15 cm diam. The led of the center is always on. This is the first led in bargraph.

Regards

[Qiaozhi]

But please not again as the dowsing:nono:, "we can't answer how it work, so it don't work :lol:"

Regards:)

:lol: That's like asking a man - "When did you stop beating your wife?" :lol:

The question makes certain assumptions. ;)

:???::???::???:
The assumptions are:


That dowsing actually works.
That you have been beating your wife.

[Geo]

Geo, the MFD works also in cold, here is now minimum 12 ºC, max. 21 ºC, and works. But maybe you must to use the first led bright all the time. Put in on in day and check at night. Is extinguish, readjust preset for leds. Put in this parameter and try. This is made for my cousin Ruben. Consist in 30 turns wire 0.40 mm in a form 15 cm diam. The led of the center is always on. This is the first led in bargraph.

Regards


Hi Esteban.
Thanks for info.
Maybe we dont use the same schematic, but it is about the same. My schematic use the LM3915 for the leds as your detector. I adjust the MDF with the first led to be between on and off( to flash a little). With the same adjust my MFD don't work on afternoon and on night. Maybe early the morning. I will try it. Olso i will try the coil as your cousin.

Regards.:)

[Theseus]

And why the LRL works only in the line of the buried coins???? Why it don't beep at any other place???
General i don't try to tell all you that it is sure the temperature that makes the LRL to work. Simple i connect the working of LRL every midday with the high temperature. I wrote my results and i liked an answer as J_P.
Maybe i am a strange people but i like answers as "this is not right..... the right is this ... or this... or i read something about it". I don't like answers as "This don't work.... or you have mistake... End"


Anyway... Regards

I suppose it is only natural to "like" those answers that tend to agree with and support your own thinking, and reject those that are not what you want to hear. It is a common trait to keep asking questions until you get answers you like, and then utilize only those answers to formulate your conclusions.

That, in and of itself however, is not enough to make the other responses you get "wrong", especially in light of the fact that the information you've so far provided is a bit "sketchy" to say the least. ;)

[J_Player]

I suppose it is only natural to "like" those answers that tend to agree with and support your own thinking, and reject those that are not what you want to hear. It is a common trait to keep asking questions until you get answers you like, and then utilize only those answers to formulate your conclusions.

That, in and of itself however, is not enough to make the other responses you get "wrong", especially in light of the fact that the information you've so far provided is a bit "sketchy" to say the least. ;)Exactly.....
It was widely known that the earth is the center of the universe for centuries. Nobody paid attention to Copernicus arguments and mathematical evidence to suggest we are not the center of the universe. Thus, people only listened to their favourite answers that proved the earth is the center of the universe. At least until Galileo came along and showed them Copernicus was right, by using his telescope. But there are still people who cling to listening to only the arguments that tend to prove their favourite ideas are correct. I believe there are still people alive who believe the starship Enterprise is the center of the universe, which happens to move every time the starship moves.

Oh well.. That's science for you

Besr wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Exactly.....
It was widely known that the earth is the center of the universe for centuries. Nobody paid attention to Copernicus arguments and mathematical evidence to suggest we are not the center of the universe. Thus, people only listened to their favourite arguments to prove the earth is the center of the universe. At least until Galileo came along and showed them what's what with a telescope. But there are still people who cling to listening to only the arguments that tend to prove their favourite ideas are correct. I believe there are still people alive who believe the starship Enterprise is the center of the universe, which happens to move every time the starship moves.

Oh well.. That's science for you

Besr wishes,


J_P


Exactly.....

Does we say the same????? :lol:

Regards

[J_Player]

Exactly.....

Does we say the same????? :lol:

RegardsSure...
We all have it the same for looking only at answers that tend to support our own thinking.
The only difference is the degree of our willingness to look at other answers too. :)

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Sure...
We all have it the same for looking only at answers that tend to support our own thinking.
The only difference is the degree of our willingness to look at other answers too. :)

Best wishes,
J_P


Hahaha... Yes.
We agree ...
When you read the threads in remote Sensing, you see exactly what you say.

Regards:)

[ALEX.356]

I consider JP's post significant and GEO will certainly pay attention to it.
You need to investigate the LRL's behavour 24 times a day. i.e. every hour , noting of course date, time temp. and humidity and range of detection.
We ll be able to eliminate some paragons and arrive at some conclusions studying these data.
Kind regards,
Alex 356

[hung]

You need to investigate the LRL's behavour 24 times a day. i.e. every hour , noting of course date, time temp. and humidity and range of detection.
We ll be able to eliminate some paragons and arrive at some conclusions studying these data.
Kind regards,
Alex 356

All data regarding the phenomena behavior has been discussed here by me and Esteban for the past 4 years in this forum based on our own experiences and also on many conversations we both had with Alonso and Damasio.
So any temptaive to do what you suggest above would be just like one to 'reinvent the wheel'..:D Read the many posts about it available.

I just read some explanations above about this, claimed by some scientists and they are wrong. This is natural, as they talk about a phenomena which they ignore and use their scientific basis of other things and fail when trying to fill 'the shoes' for a specific scenario.

Unlike some here think, if the LRL(ionic/electrostatic based) is fine built and tuned for the phenomena, detection is fine during all day although around noon is when the poorest caption is achieved. At evening/night, sometimes it becomes even better.

Regards.

[Fred]

All data regarding the phenomena behavior has been discussed here by me and Esteban for the past 4 years in this forum based on our own experiences and also on many conversations we both had with Alonso and Damasio.Regards.
Too bad that during all this time you were not able to get to any real conclusion.
So nice try with "reinventing the wheel" but no cigar :razz:

[Theseus]

I just read some explanations above about this, claimed by some scientists and they are wrong. This is natural, as they talk about a phenomena which they ignore and use their scientific basis of other things and fail when trying to fill 'the shoes' for a specific scenario.
Regards.

Spoken like a true pseudo-scientist. :lol: :lol: :lol:

And now I will debunker the debunkerer....

If adequate methods of testing hypotheses aren't known or applied, faulty explanations of actual phenomena can live on through generations, simply because the only thing that matters is that "it seems to work.

The propensity to score the hits and neglect the misses is probably the number one reason for the flourishing of superstition and pseudoscience today, including dowsing.

Simple truths about nature can't choose to hide from the skeptical minds and be seen by the gullible at the same time.

Once a device or phenomenon has developed around poor theories, it essentially halts all useful progress by its practitioners until the idea is reintegrated with the larger scientific community. The institutionalization of theories and devices in an uncritical atmosphere and away from the larger scientific community almost guarantees that there will be a continuing sequence of "positive" results, sometimes for centuries, even though the phenomena remain slippery, understanding remains vague, and discovery of new knowledge is left to the rest of science. In short, a duck is born. Quack, quack.

8)

Read it and weep.

[J_Player]

Spoken like a true pseudo-scientist. :lol: :lol: :lol:

And now I will debunker the debunkerer....

If adequate methods of testing hypotheses aren't known or applied, faulty explanations of actual phenomena can live on through generations, simply because the only thing that matters is that "it seems to work.

The propensity to score the hits and neglect the misses is probably the number one reason for the flourishing of superstition and pseudoscience today, including dowsing.

Simple truths about nature can't choose to hide from the skeptical minds and be seen by the gullible at the same time.

Once a device or phenomenon has developed around poor theories, it essentially halts all useful progress by its practitioners until the idea is reintegrated with the larger scientific community. The institutionalization of theories and devices in an uncritical atmosphere and away from the larger scientific community almost guarantees that there will be a continuing sequence of "positive" results, sometimes for centuries, even though the phenomena remain slippery, understanding remains vague, and discovery of new knowledge is left to the rest of science. In short, a duck is born. Quack, quack.

8)

Read it and weep.Poor thesis? ...
Quack, quack....?
Hmmmm...

You are addressing Dr. hung, self-proclaimed debunkerer, expert, and discoverer of gold DNA....
"Gold is the most powerful 'self defensive' metal when it comes to avoid any harm to its structure, such as rust, oxidation, etc. Its DNA produces a substance which coats the metal to fight against those 'threats'".
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=84058&postcount=41

When I asked hung to show us some kind of evidence to convince us gold has DNA and the substance it produces, here was his reply:
"This is a private survey I'm involved.
I have absolutely no interest whasoever in discussing it or convincing anyone about it".
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=91456&postcount=97

Apparently, This gold DNA is so secret that not even hung can talk about it. How's that for attempting to institutionalize his theories in an uncritical atmosphere, and away from the larger scientific community?
Have you seen the larger scientific community anxiously trying to find the gold gene that produces this substance so they can use it for corrosion prevention in other metals, and eliminate billions of dollars spent to paint metals? Perhaps everyone except hung has discovered that gold does not have DNA, and therefore does not produce any substance to coat the metal. The only evidence of this substance produced by gold DNA seems to exist in the mind of master-debunkerer hung.

I seriously doubt we have any danger of people accepting Dr. hung's diatribe as science for centuries.
In fact, I seriously doubt anyone pays attention to his secret science proclamations
... not even Esteban has shown signs of believing hung's "gold DNA story", or half the other BS he proclaims.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hmmm....

if Dr. Hung say it works...

you can be almost sure... It doesn't! :lol:

It's a proof then that LRLs don't work as claimed ? :D

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

All data regarding the phenomena behavior has been discussed here by me and Esteban for the past 4 years in this forum based on our own experiences and also on many conversations we both had with Alonso and Damasio.
So any temptaive to do what you suggest above would be just like one to 'reinvent the wheel'..:D Read the many posts about it available.

I just read some explanations above about this, claimed by some scientists and they are wrong. This is natural, as they talk about a phenomena which they ignore and use their scientific basis of other things and fail when trying to fill 'the shoes' for a specific scenario.

Unlike some here think, if the LRL(ionic/electrostatic based) is fine built and tuned for the phenomena, detection is fine during all day although around noon is when the poorest caption is achieved. At evening/night, sometimes it becomes even better.

Regards.
If this is supposed to be an example of debunkering, then it's a very poor example. :razz:

[Mike(Mont)]

I use a frequency generator for locating gold well over 300 days a year. The older I get, the warmer I like it. Over the last couple of years I decided 37 F is about the minimum temperature I can work in and still get a solid signal. I have found 50 F is a very good temperature to work in. Hotter weather tends to dry things out too much around here. I avoid hot weather in general. Melting snow is about the best conditions. In the morning hours, if there is dew on the grass enough to get my shoes wet it doesn't work very well. I watch moon cycles. When the moon or tide is going down it's good, but I can usually work is most conditions as long as it is not too windy. The wind around here creates a static charge from the blowing dust. I also like days after a cold front has passed but sometimes the wind is too gusty.

[J_Player]

If this is supposed to be an example of debunkering, then it's a very poor example. :razz:Poor example of debunkering?
Are you sure?

"Debunkering" is not a word, and has no meaning other than the one Dr. hung made up. But he has kept the meaning of his new word secret, so we can only guess what it means. After recent developments, I must abandon my previous guess that he was referring to exiting his bunker for a breath of fresh air. Based on Dr. hung's posts in the Remote Sensing forum, I would speculate that "debunkering" might mean putting forth proclamations of science without any evidence to support them, as shown in his post above.

We see he posted: "All data regarding the phenomena behavior has been discussed here by me and Esteban for the past 4 years in this forum based on our own experiences and also on many conversations we both had with Alonso and Damasio.
So any temptaive to do what you suggest above would be just like one to 'reinvent the wheel'..:D Read the many posts about it available".

I am speculating that this is a prime example of Dr. hung's word: "debunkering". If I am correct, we can see clearly what is the object of "debunkering":. This is Dr. hung's method of establishing credibility for his theories that he wants to use to prove others wrong... without using any scientific evidence to support them.
We see that he first states "All data regarding the phenomena behavior has been discussed here..." Hmmmm....
All the data?
... or just the data hung wants to promote to prove his point?
In fact, I haven't seen any credible data posted by Dr hung... only sketchy attempts with sloppy measuring methods, including videos that are generally believed to be fakes. This is not a recent technique of Dr. hung... He began years ago saying the Mineoro FG LRLs would detect fresh gold when the humidity is between 40-60%, with no evidence to suggest it is true. Then, when people were complaining of random beeps and no gold detection, he said the gold must be buried at least 10 years. :shocked:

But in the case of Dr. hung's post above, he is talking about detecting the "phenomenon" using an ionic-electrostatic field detector, not a modified simple magnetic detector as Geo posted. So, apparently, Dr hung does not want us to notice that he is not referring to the response of a magnetic field detector at various times of the day. Also, he is ignorant of the time window when we can expect to receive the best detection. He has obviously never read anything about the variations of this time window, or of variations of the magnetic and telluric fields at different locations on the earth. He only knows what he found using a Mineoro LRL designed to locate gold ions hovering in the air 7.2 feet above a buried treasure. In fact, if he is referring to an FG model, the gold may not even be buried, yet is sending ion signals to the gold chamber.

But wait... "debunkering" has another feature... It is also used to enlist the support of posts by other forum members, even if these posts do not actually support Dr. hung's thinking... "...has been discussed here by me and Esteban for the past 4 years in this forum..."
Now, wait a minute...
What Dr. hung posts is not the same as what Esteban posts. According to Esteban, Mineoro is inferior to the locators he makes himself. Esteban does not make the same performance claims for Mineoro LRLs that hung claims, has never posted anything about gold DNA, and he does not claim the same times of day are good or bad as hung claims. So should we think that Esteban corroborates all that Dr. hung proclaims?
I think not. But then, this is just another feature of ways you can use Dr. hung's new word "debunkering".

The word "debunkering" is a pseudoscient's dream... It gives a quack license to proclaim any factoids without any evidence to support them, allows using irrelevant references, and allows referencing other, more respected sources to support the BS, even if the other sources do not really support their BS. :cool:

But I could be wrong about all this. I am only speculating on the meaning of the word "debunker".

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

As I have informed Hung already, his signature incorrectly uses the word "debunkering" (which means absolutely nothing) and the correct word should be "debunking".

However, with his usual "head in sand" method of working, he has simply ignored this information and continued to use "debunkering", as if it is a real word that means something. Such is the selective memory of the pseudo-scientist. :rolleyes:

[Theseus]

As I have informed Hung already, his signature incorrectly uses the word "debunkering" (which means absolutely nothing) and the correct word should be "debunking".

However, with his usual "head in sand" method of working, he has simply ignored this information and continued to use "debunkering", as if it is a real word that means something. Such is the selective memory of the pseudo-scientist. :rolleyes:

I agree. Most all of us are aware that his (hung's) word "debunker" is strictly a word made up (or misspelled) by hung, and obviously has no defined formal meaning. However, whenever I read it, I give him the benefit of the doubt, and just assume he really meant "debunk".

On the other hand, I believe I was perhaps the first or one of the first to bring attention to his obvious lack of real "debunkering" when it comes to providing information that might support his otherwise pseudo scientific rhetoric.

I like to use the word the way he misspelled it for two reasons. First, it demonstrates that if he can be so careless as to use a meaningless word in his signature, than by association anything else he says is likely to have the same carelessness and association to errors.

Second, I keep asking to see more examples of what he "thinks" is debunking (or using his term debunkering) because so far I've not seen a single contribution from him that would qualify as debunking other poster's remarks.

[J_Player]

I agree. Most all of us are aware that his (hung's) word "debunker" is strictly a word made up (or misspelled) by hung, and obviously has no defined formal meaning. However, whenever I read it, I give him the benefit of the doubt, and just assume he really meant "debunk".

On the other hand, I believe I was perhaps the first or one of the first to bring attention to his obvious lack of real "debunkering" when it comes to providing information that might support his otherwise pseudo scientific rhetoric.

I like to use the word the way he misspelled it for two reasons. First, it demonstrates that if he can be so careless as to use a meaningless word in his signature, than by association anything else he says is likely to have the same carelessness and association to errors.

Second, I keep asking to see more examples of what he "thinks" is debunking (or using his term debunkering) because so far I've not seen a single contribution from him that would qualify as debunking other poster's remarks.Hmmmmm....
Have you considered that my first guess at the meaning of the word might be correct?

I mean, If Dr. hung spends most of his time inside a bunker with the rest of his team inventing new science, then sooner or later, he must come out for a breath of fresh air, or to buy some hot melt glue, or something. I would think that grammatically this is a correct spelling of a word that means "to exit the bunker". And it makes sense... if Dr hung's PC is not inside the bunker, then he must debunker every time he wants to make a post. So we see he debunkers whenever he makes a post.

The word "debunker" reminds me of another similar word in English language, "defenestrate", which means "to toss out the window" This is a word invented for one incident: the "Defenestration of Prague," May 21, 1618, when two Catholic deputies to the Bohemian national assembly and a secretary were tossed out the window (into a moat) of the castle of Hradshin by Protestant radicals. It marked the start of the Thirty Years War. The word "defenestrate" is used today in other contexts for tossing things out the window, like "defenestrate the rules of science... we're in the bunker where we can make up our own rules", or "Windows cannot open this file. To open this file correctly, defenestrate, then try running the file again..." or "defenestrate him from the bunker! he's a skeptic".

Hmmmm.... Well, debunker has the correct grammar structure to mean "exit the bunker". but somehow, Dr. hung's usage of the word doesn't fit that meaning exactly. If he meant exiting the bunker, maybe he would say:

"Should I imagine injustice and untruths towards working LRLs, I'll defenestrate from the bunker and vomit my diatribe in the forum"

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

I like to use the word the way he misspelled it for two reasons. First, it demonstrates that if he can be so careless as to use a meaningless word in his signature, than by association anything else he says is likely to have the same carelessness and association to errors.
:lol:
That's also why I continue to use the non-word "debunker" and also "debunkering" when referring to his meaningless posts.

Second, I keep asking to see more examples of what he "thinks" is debunking (or using his term debunkering) because so far I've not seen a single contribution from him that would qualify as debunking other poster's remarks.
And neither have I. :D

[Theseus]

Hmmmmm....
Have you considered that my first guess at the meaning of the word might be correct?

I mean, If Dr. hung spends most of his time inside a bunker with the rest of his team inventing new science, then sooner or later, he must come out for a breath of fresh air, or to buy some hot melt glue, or something. I would think that grammatically this is a correct spelling of a word that means "to exit the bunker". And it makes sense... if Dr hung's PC is not inside the bunker, then he must debunker every time he wants to make a post. So we see he debunkers whenever he makes a post......
Best wishes,
J_P


Since I try to keep an open mind at all times....

Yes, your first guess could be accurate, but IMO, highly unlikely. ;)

[Max]

:lol:
That's also why I continue to use the non-word "debunker" and also "debunkering" when referring to his meaningless posts.


And neither have I. :D

And me too! :lol:

[hung]

It was created by me on purpose.
Consider this as a variation of a debunker procedure against big mouth skepthics.:lol:

Anyway, it's amazing how much free time you people waste talking nonsenses about trivial matters... This forum is 'better' each day...
Hope none of you have lost your jobs...:rolleyes:

[Qiaozhi]

It was created by me on purpose.
Yes ... of course it was. :rolleyes:

[Theseus]

It was created by me on purpose.
Consider this as a variation of a debunker procedure against big mouth skepthics.:lol:

Anyway, it's amazing how much free time you people waste talking nonsenses about trivial matters... This forum is 'better' each day...
Hope none of you have lost your jobs...:rolleyes:

So I guess you also created skepthics?

What are skepthics?

And, what is a debunker procedure; when will we know that it has started?

I don't think it's trivial at all. It is most indicative of your entire diatribe/rhetoric and should be pointed out to the lurking readers.

[J_Player]

It was created by me on purpose.
Consider this as a variation of a debunker procedure against big mouth skepthics.:lol:Well, now we're getting closer, but still don't know what the word means. Since there is no verb "debunker" in the English language, perhaps you could provide a definition of what this word means, so we will have a correct understanding of what you are doing during your "variation of a debunker procedure".

It does not have anything to do with a variation of procedures to exit your bunker, does it?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

I think the best friend of LRL is the light of the Sun. :)

[detectoman]

then condenser, movent short circuit, so need oxide

[detectoman]

wtb others phenomen whit tipe of soil this is one science

[Max]

I think the best friend of LRL is the light of the Sun. :)

So I guess LRLs like tan! :D

But did you apply sunscreen or not ? :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

I think the best friend of LRL is the light of the Sun. :)

If so, what are effects of clouds? Or do you mean other effects or wavelenghts than light?

[Fred]

It was created by me on purpose.
So, by definition you are the only one to know its meaning.Would you be kind enought to explain it or is it one more of your secrets?

[Esteban]

Also a good friend of electronic LRL is RF.

[Fred]

Also a good friend of electronic LRL is RF.

a small FM band receiver ?...we all have a LRL at home ! :shocked:

[Esteban]

a small FM band receiver ?...we all have a LRL at home ! :shocked:

This is lowest than FM, 70-80 Mhz. The coil is not definitive. Wish no deppend of FM, due the enormeous quantity of transmitters in this band. Here is used a LM386 as audio amp. with volume control, voltage regulator around LM317, etc.

[Max]

a small FM band receiver ?...we all have a LRL at home ! :shocked:

Hi,
hmmmmm.... are you sure it is ? :D

the voltage regulator and lm386 amplifier are quite intuitive...

also transistor thing and coil there...

the problem is that "seems" there is a digital IC there... cmos kind, 4000 family :rolleyes:

So... if cmos/4000 and not HCmos... you know it doesn't go high in frequency...

The rx can be FM range... no problem running around 100Mhz... but I dubt middle stage is some FM thing. ;)

BTW Esteban wrote "RF" not "FM" this time.

As always... he posts stamp sized pictures... and people start making wild guesses! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Hi,
hmmmmm.... are you sure it is ? :D

the voltage regulator and lm386 amplifier are quite intuitive...

also transistor thing and coil there...

the problem is that "seems" there is a digital IC there... cmos kind, 4000 family :rolleyes:

So... if cmos/4000 and not HCmos... you know it doesn't go high in frequency...

The rx can be FM range... no problem running around 100Mhz... but I dubt middle stage is some FM thing. ;)

BTW Esteban wrote "RF" not "FM" this time.

As always... he posts stamp sized pictures... and people start making wild guesses! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

No!!! Many times I wrote "RF"!!!

[Max]

No!!! Many times I wrote "RF"!!!

?

this time you wrote "RF".

But other times you wrote "FM"...

not to talk that many LRLs stamp sized schematics have germanium diodes used for amplitude demodulators... so AM also...

And then ?

Lot of words... lot of funky pictures... stamp sized circuits and no facts.:D

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

Hi,
hmmmmm.... are you sure it is ? :D
the problem is that "seems" there is a digital IC there... cmos kind, 4000 family :rolleyes: Max
Maybe, but i think it is some op amplifier or even a receiver ic.

Anyway the principle is always the same: receive rf noise and detect fluctuations.
All Esteban´s schematics are based on this principle, from khz to IR light ;)

[Esteban]

?

this time you wrote "RF".

But other times you wrote "FM"...

not to talk that many LRLs stamp sized schematics have germanium diodes used for amplitude demodulators... so AM also...

And then ?

Lot of words... lot of funky pictures... stamp sized circuits and no facts.:D

Kind regards,
Max

Because you're very concentrated in words "FM", but you can found in dozens of posts I use "RF" words.

[Max]

Because you're very concentrated in words "FM", but you can found in dozens of posts I use "RF" words.

RF ?

Ok, RF... fine for me. And FM, fine too... and even AM if you want!

Then?

As always... silly game with words... bits of informations... and some germanium diode for RF! :D

Don't change that there aren't facts about LRLs.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Maybe, but i think it is some op amplifier or even a receiver ic.

Anyway the principle is always the same: receive rf noise and detect fluctuations.
All Esteban´s schematics are based on this principle, from khz to IR light ;)

No.... seems much a digital IC.

Digital ICs can be used also for analog stuff/functions...

But maybe he will tell us... :rolleyes:

(well... probably not... cause it's maybe some LRL secret! :lol:)

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

Because you're very concentrated in words "FM", but you can found in dozens of posts I use "RF" words.
No, that´s me. I use RF word :razz:
Just kidding,
Are you going to tell wich IC is that?

[Max]

No, that´s me. I use RF word :razz:
Just kidding,
Are you going to tell wich IC is that?

Like asking a donkey to jump in the fire.... :lol:

[sweatofglory]

I think the best friend of LRL is the light of the Sun. :)


Hi,

For me, the sun itself is the best friend of the LRL because it acts like a sattelite. ;););)

[Max]

Hi,

For me, the sun itself is the best friend of the LRL because it acts like a sattelite. ;););)

Hmmmmm...

geocentric in 2009 ? :lol:

within few time... we'll see also some creationism here and someone will say that Earth is flat and blood transfusions will mix different souls! :lol:

Something is wrong here...

Or maybe people time travel back some hundred years before have the illumination and wrote that pearls ?:rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[detectoman]

waw! esteban these last circuit is very simple, i understand these need other altern circuit for help,what distance detect objetives? what advantages and vantage? i think the sound is strong and progresive, major what beeper, i have ideas for build one major lrl, i have one bfo, have you one diagram for simple fm whit valves? whit 2 bulbos'? i need urgent these for build my project, i have one radio am and short band, work 125 v. radio ld, how many turns in coil anten i need? thanks for advance dman
soon i send photo of chasis whit big cristal valves, is extreme sensitive

[detectoman]

http://images.google.com.mx/imgres?imgurl=http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/3nfcct.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/loewe.html&usg=__mfe5ZdirWaOg-LAC0q-NT5nuBwE=&h=300&w=329&sz=13&hl=es&start=21&um=1&tbnid=uUL942LuJEgDBM:&tbnh=109&tbnw=119&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcircuit%2Bradio%2Bto%2Bvalves%26ndsp% 3D20%26hl%3Des%26sa%3DN%26start%3D20%26um%3D1

[Esteban]

RF ?

Ok, RF... fine for me. And FM, fine too... and even AM if you want!

Then?

As always... silly game with words... bits of informations... and some germanium diode for RF! :D

Don't change that there aren't facts about LRLs.

Kind regards,
Max

Do you see a germanium diode on the PCB? I don't! :lol:

[Esteban]

Like asking a donkey to jump in the fire.... :lol:

Do you have "contact" with donkeys? This can cause pain to you! :lol:

[Esteban]

No, that´s me. I use RF word :razz:
Just kidding,
Are you going to tell wich IC is that?

Do you think can be a hex inverter?

[Max]

Do you see a germanium diode on the PCB? I don't! :lol:

Not in this one... I mean the schematic you posted with 4 of them...:rolleyes:

[Max]

Do you have "contact" with donkeys? This can cause pain to you! :lol:

I have no donkey...

But if I'll buy one... will be sure... more rational than you about posting stuff! :lol:

Cause are years now you made such posts... of stamp-sized and missing labels...

It's silly see each time this stuff here and NEVER any complete thing from you... apart magazine stuff...and some lightning powered battery charger...:razz:

Grow up... got a pair of balls... and tell people what they wanna know... not your childish games.:D

otherwise shut up.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Do you think can be a hex inverter?

Can be... cannot be....

I pi$$ that circuit just cause posted for fools to ask what's this and what's that! :lol:

It's remote sensing or not here ???

Now...c'mon post that remote sensing circuits...

Got guts, if defective on balls... and posts something that detects a coin at two meters...

Or shut up.

Can always posts idiotic battery chargers in "General electronics" but here people wanna facts (if there are, and I dubt) not games.:rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Geo]

Yesterday it was rain. So for 3.. 4 days i can't make other tests. It is time to make some modifications.

Regards:)

[Max]

Yesterday it was rain. So for 3.. 4 days i can't make other tests. It is time to make some modifications.

Regards:)

Hi Geo,
found maybe another mag circuit... in issue 5/2007 of elektor magazine...

Look... seems close to your thing!

If Carl will give me permissions I will post full article... otherwise you must download all the stuff by rapidshare I think.

Kind regards,
Max

[Geo]

Hi Max.
I believe that all these schematics are about the same. Schematic of my MFD(Elektor) is different (a little) than your. The article is in PDF and if you want it i can sent to you via email. Only problem that it is in Greek language. It is from 2/97.
But the basic problem is to have some objects many years burried, so to test it.

Regards:)

[Geo]

Max, if you want to sent you the article, please sent your email via PM.
Regards

[Esteban]

I have no donkey...

But if I'll buy one... will be sure... more rational than you about posting stuff! :lol:

Cause are years now you made such posts... of stamp-sized and missing labels...

It's silly see each time this stuff here and NEVER any complete thing from you... apart magazine stuff...and some lightning powered battery charger...:razz:

Grow up... got a pair of balls... and tell people what they wanna know... not your childish games.:D

otherwise shut up.

Kind regards,
Max

Do you are desperate? Why, if you are promoting his impossibility? All the time I tell they wanna know, but you respond with games. So I respond your games with games, pay you with the same coin! :razz:

[Esteban]

Can be... cannot be....

I pi$$ that circuit just cause posted for fools to ask what's this and what's that! :lol:

It's remote sensing or not here ???

Now...c'mon post that remote sensing circuits...

Got guts, if defective on balls... and posts something that detects a coin at two meters...

Or shut up.

Can always posts idiotic battery chargers in "General electronics" but here people wanna facts (if there are, and I dubt) not games.:rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

I know what is, you don't? Ah!!! you never posts idiotics posts!!! :lol:

[Esteban]

Every time when I discuss with donkeys, I receive kicks!!! :lol:

[sweatofglory]

no doubt max knows everything....................:lol::lol::lol:

[Esteban]

no doubt max knows everything....................:lol::lol::lol:

Yes, he knows... everything! :lol:

[Max]

no doubt max knows everything....................:lol::lol::lol:

Are you another LRL fanatic ??? :rolleyes:

I know what I know... and that LRLs don't work.

Or you say that they work ? :lol:

You and him are desperate... not me, then. :razz:

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Yes, he knows... everything! :lol:

Hmmmm...

yes, I know everything... that's needed in THunting... and then... that LRLs are c.r.a.p.

and all world laugh at them! :lol:

Me first of all! :D

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

Do you think can be a hex inverter?
ah! yes, a hex inverter used as level detector then oscillator to make a trigered buzzer amplified by lm386.:)


Max you were right...
I think Esteban gave enought information many times to build a device.for some reason (yet to be understood) he doens´t want to give a complete schematic, but it should be easy to make one to test it.
If it works or not, and where, is another story...

[sweatofglory]

Yes, he knows... everything! :lol:


Isn't he a psychic? we are psychos!!!:D:D:D

[hung]

he doens´t want to give a complete schematic, but it should be easy to make one to test it.
If it works or not, and where, is another story...

Easy? For who?
For the 'technical' minded skepthics here who could not even make the PD work with the complete schematics??

And now you hope they will do with an incomplete one?:lol::lol:

[J_Player]

Easy? For who?
For the 'technical' minded skepthics here who could not even make the PD work with the complete schematics??

And now you hope they will do with an incomplete one?:lol::lol:Ummm...
Speaking of incomplete,
Why not tell us all about the complete story of gold DNA and the substance it produces which coats the metal to protect it from oxidation.
This could be helpful to smear on iron to keep it from rusting. http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=84058

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Easy? For who?
For the 'technical' minded skepthics here who could not even make the PD work with the complete schematics??

And now you hope they will do with an incomplete one?:lol::lol:

Hope we find out soon what a skepthic is.

Ever stop to consider that those who could not make the PD work, had exactly the same results that you do with a PD?

Perhaps the schematics were made up and fabricated, just like the words you make up and throw around (ie. debunker, skepthic), which are meaningless.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Esteban]

Are you another LRL fanatic ??? :rolleyes:

I know what I know... and that LRLs don't work.

Or you say that they work ? :lol:

You and him are desperate... not me, then. :razz:

Kind regards,
Max

Ha, ha, ha!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Esteban]

ah! yes, a hex inverter used as level detector then oscillator to make a trigered buzzer amplified by lm386.:)


Max you were right...
I think Esteban gave enought information many times to build a device.for some reason (yet to be understood) he doens´t want to give a complete schematic, but it should be easy to make one to test it.
If it works or not, and where, is another story...

This RF circuit is in process of study... :shocked:

[Esteban]

Hmmmm...

yes, I know everything... that's needed in THunting... and then... that LRLs are c.r.a.p.

and all world laugh at them! :lol:

Me first of all! :D

Kind regards,
Max

Of course, and you're a champion making melting glue implementations! :lol: But you're a skeptical! :lol: :lol:

[Esteban]

Not in this one... I mean the schematic you posted with 4 of them...:rolleyes:

And what? In some implementations, 4 Ge diodes in serie make a big difference... In where book is? :razz: But you must to select Ge diodes. The diodes in reverse connection in tester will be high value resistences... there are many Ge bad diodes, in reverse you obtain low resistences... I'm talking about 250,000 - 500,000 ohms in reverse even 1,000,000. This is one secret.

[Max]

Of course, and you're a champion making melting glue implementations! :lol: But you're a skeptical! :lol: :lol:

But I made IR circuit like you described... and...

it's totally useless...

not that adding hot-melt glue change this FACT.:D

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

And what? In some implementations, 4 Ge diodes in serie make a big difference... In where book is? :razz: But you must to select Ge diodes. The diodes in reverse connection in tester will be high value resistences... there are many Ge bad diodes, in reverse you obtain low resistences... I'm talking about 250,000 - 500,000 ohms in reverse even 1,000,000. This is one secret.

Wow...
big secret I see...

Now I can go to my local store(s) and ask guys let me measure Ge diodes before I buy...

of course, I will report that I'm doing an LRL and that some genius made the "design" ! :razz:

I'll make advertising to the LRL-tribe... :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Experiment starts with universal PCB. Later I use 6 Ge diodes and final versions 4 Ge diodes high resistence in reverse. Today I'm thinking in Ge transistors as diodes.

[Max]

This RF circuit is in process of study... :shocked:

Study ?

What ?

Hex inverters ?

Are you to get your electronics diploma by correspondence these days ? :lol:

Like Dr. Hung I think!:rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

But I made IR circuit like you described... and...

it's totally useless...

not that adding hot-melt glue change this FACT.:D

Kind regards,
Max

No, first you don't use in FM, second you don't added antenna in FM radio, but you have complete drawing in RSP forum, third you don't mounting in a box as I described in drawing, etc... :lol:

[Max]

Experiment starts with universal PCB. Later I use 6 Ge diodes and final versions 4 Ge diodes high resistence in reverse. Today I'm thinking in Ge transistors as diodes.

I see...

[Esteban]

Study ?

What ?

Hex inverters ?

Are you to get your electronics diploma by correspondence these days ? :lol:

Like Dr. Hung I think!:rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

You're a champion in lack of understanding...!!! :lol: This mean experiment for to replace FM radio.

[Max]

No, first you don't use in FM, second you don't added antenna in FM radio, but you have complete drawing in RSP forum, third you don't mounting in a box as I described in drawing, etc... :lol:

I did use FM... switched radio to FM..

About antenna what's that ?

Anyway, circuit is useless...and not cause of hot melt glue...

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

You're a champion in lack of understanding...!!! :lol: This mean experiment for to replace FM radio.

LRLs don't work! and its my fault!:D

[Esteban]

Wow...
big secret I see...

Now I can go to my local store(s) and ask guys let me measure Ge diodes before I buy...

of course, I will report that I'm doing an LRL and that some genius made the "design" ! :razz:

I'll make advertising to the LRL-tribe... :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

I dissamble from many old PCBs I have. Here in store I bought bad diodes. The problem in LRL experiments you need to think in sensors in input, different sensors.

[ma330]

hi to all:
please insert a schematic and pcb from LRL that good workking....?

[Max]

hi to all:
please insert a schematic and pcb from LRL that good workking....?

Ask Esteban.... he has all!:lol:

[Fred]

Easy? For who?
For the 'technical' minded skepthics here who could not even make the PD work with the complete schematics??

And now you hope they will do with an incomplete one?:lol::lol:

Based on this principle , anything can work, in the PD it could be the ferrite or the coil used a "antenna", the point is to detect a rf (or voltage ) level diference.
Now, does it work? :razz:


hi to all:
please insert a schematic and pcb from LRL that good workking....?

:lol::lol::lol:

[putrechigi]

Hi Hung.

You have not right.
I called the members of RS forum to come with me to test the PD but no one wants to come, or they are busy. So if the PD works good, i want to see who will be he, that will not believe the video!!!!

Regards:)
hi at everybody sorry but i woeked where is not possible to have internet, today a back at my house and i ride the discussion, if geo and morgan is right i can go at morgan house for pd test and for meet my friends
reguards manolo

[Geo]

Hi Manolo.
I wait you. I am very glad if any other member will come with me.

Regards:)

[detectoman]

se mira bien entonces max and company seran para siempre convencidos de la efectividad de los lrl pd y pediran humildes disculpas a esteban y morgan y se acabara para siempre la eterna disputa que hace llenar paneles y paneles de discusiones
entonces se desplazaran los temas de importancia los lrl arriba de la pagina y los md seran puestos en lugar de remote sensing
then max and company can be convincent pd lrl work and put end to eternal panels discusion, and esteban and cientifics of south america can be revindicated how heroe builders seems good
morgan and geo go then to find the gold vellocine and apple of esperides

[J_Player]

se mira bien entonces max and company seran para siempre convencidos de la efectividad de los lrl pd y pediran humildes disculpas a esteban y morgan y se acabara para siempre la eterna disputa que hace llenar paneles y paneles de discusiones...Ja ja ja ja ja ja ja ... ¡Esto nunca sucederá!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Best wishes,
J_P