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Esteban

06-23-2009, 04:41 PM

The neon lamp and the divider voltage limits the voltage in the union of both resistors in order to 15 V.

Max

06-23-2009, 07:33 PM

The neon lamp and the divider voltage limits the voltage in the union of both resistors in order to 15 V.

Hi,
what's that stuff ???

Seems a project for depressed people... the kind who wanna die! :lol:

Don't you know that placing such stuff could incinerate an elephant if things go worse ???

I hope people here will not realize they can try such stuff REALLY to charge some battery! :razz:

It's like killing a fly with a TSAR-bomba!:shocked:

You're a natural born killer Esteban! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

Qiaozhi

06-23-2009, 11:33 PM

The neon lamp and the divider voltage limits the voltage in the union of both resistors in order to 15 V.
I think even Benjamin Franklin would have thought twice about building that. :rolleyes:

peroon

06-24-2009, 08:40 AM

Esteban....say; aren't you, by some strange accident, Nikola Tesla's distant relative? :razz: Or even better - his direct reincarnation? :razz:
Only HE was crazy enough to agitate in clouds and ionosphere ! :razz::lol:

Esteban

06-24-2009, 04:16 PM

Max

06-24-2009, 04:50 PM

Fred

06-24-2009, 09:44 PM

But 10pA@1000v, we only need 1.2V.
So divide this by 1000.
Only 32 years. :shocked:
I want one
now
.

J_Player

06-25-2009, 07:18 AM

If somebody understand Spanish, translated for original Elektor issue, is for indoor uses with short antenna. The drawing only is ilustrative of how can obtaining some ammount of energy. The principle also is used in satellite for solar cells, etc., regarding the publication. Only I share it.

Regards

EstebanHi Esteban,

Here is the translation:
The phrase "energy crisis" is becoming increasingly common in our daily conversations. It is very difficult to determine if this phrase is a true crisis or a matter of a popular psychosis. In this climate where energy seems to be topic of everyone's conversation, it is not rare that someone has the idea to utilize a common energy source (static electricity), based on the experiments of Benjamin Franklin. The basic circuit is shown in the figure below. The neon light voltage limiting resistors R1/R2 provide approximately 1.000V to the light. These resistors are connected as voltage dividers which obtain 15Vacross them. This 15 volts is rectified and stabilized by D1, R3, and D2. The battery (10 Nicads in series) is charged via D3. Take note that some components can suffer instabilities. This circuit was originally designed for solar cells in special applications (radio links in the Himilayas, satellite, etc). However, you can use the circuit as a battery charger under one condition: For safety reasons, the captive antenna should be mounted indoors.

What they are saying is this circuit was intended as a method to collect power at remote stations where there is no power. In this application, there is no problem of anyone getting hurt because nobody is there. But it can be used for a home battery charger under one condition: Use it indoors to be safe.

In my opinion, this is a good example of free energy. It's application would be well suited to remote places where you wanted to charge a battery and had no power source.

Some more notes about free static electricity:
The amount of power in the atmosphere can be calculated by looking at measurements made by scientists. We know from these measurements the following data:

1. The average voltage gradient measured at the near surface of the earth is 100v / meter. This amount can become up to 300 v / meter, or as low as 50V / meter, depending on several conditions like time of day, weather, and location on the earth, etc.

2. The average current leaking from the surface of the earth is 2000 amps. This 2000 amps is settling on the surface of the earth, which measures 510,066,000 sq km. This means that for each sq meter of earth surface, there is an average of 3.9 microamps leaking into the atmosphere.

3. Because at the lower levels, the atmosphere is air, it is also a very good insulator, which is the reason why there is only a slow leakage of current from the upper ionosphere.

4. The idea of stringing a wire up into the sky to collect the free power from this voltage gradient will not work efficiently without some more engineering. Erecting a wire in the air in a vertical direction will cause the voltage gradient in the air to deform. This happens because the wire will form a short circuit that connects the ground to the voltage in the air where you are trying to collect a charge. The result is you have moved the ground voltage to a location above where you are trying to collect a charge from. So as the current begins to flow into the top of the charge-collecting antenna, it will quickly pass down the conductor, and the upper voltage will drop to the ground voltage. Then the current will slow down to a trickle, much less than the amount that would freely leak through the atmosphere without the vertical antenna (grounding rod) in place. This will also cause the voltage gradient to become very reduced in the location of the charge-collecting antenna.

Bottom line... the current that you can collect from this antenna is not the same as what would calculate from the undisturbed gradient of 100V/m, and 3.9 microamps in a 1 meter square of surface. But you still collect something, even if less than what is available in an undisturbed gradient. This whole process of disturbing the voltage gradient is what makes the antenna less dangerous than would be expected from a 100v/meter gradient. But beware... there is still a danger if a thunderstorm is brewing... you have built a lightning rod that can easily kill whoever is tinkering with the bottom of the antenna!

Moral of the story:
Keep your antenna indoors like the article says.

Good work, Esteban! :thumb:

Best wishes,
J_P

has this topic been properly debunkered?

Max

06-25-2009, 10:46 AM

But 10pA@1000v, we only need 1.2V.
So divide this by 1000.
Only 32 years. :shocked:
I want one
now
.

Hi,
but the article say that the thing adapt output voltage to the battery-pack voltage... so it's not 10pA@1000V but 10pA@15V or... say 0.00000000015 watts ... 150picowatts !Uh! :lol:

Anyway... always you'll get 10pA of current... and your battery pack will require always about 32000 years to charge... :rolleyes:

What a smart idea... I say! Getting current from the air...:razz:

Must repeat...I think people will make the experiment trying to DIE than expecting that ice-age long recharge... :D

Kind regards,
Max

Max

06-25-2009, 11:26 AM

Hi Esteban,

Here is the translation:
The phrase "energy crisis" is becoming increasingly common in our daily conversations. It is very difficult to determine if this phrase is a true crisis or a matter of a popular psychosis. In this climate where energy seems to be topic of everyone's conversation, it is not rare that someone has the idea to utilize a common energy source (static electricity), based on the experiments of Benjamin Franklin. The basic circuit is shown in the figure below. The neon light voltage limiting resistors R1/R2 provide approximately 1.000V to the light. These resistors are connected as voltage dividers which obtain 15Vacross them. This 15 volts is rectified and stabilized by D1, R3, and D2. The battery (10 Nicads in series) is charged via D3. Take note that some components can suffer instabilities. This circuit was originally designed for solar cells in special applications (radio links in the Himilayas, satellite, etc). However, you can use the circuit as a battery charger under one condition: For safety reasons, the captive antenna should be mounted indoors.

What they are saying is this circuit was intended as a method to collect power at remote stations where there is no power. In this application, there is no problem of anyone getting hurt because nobody is there. But it can be used for a home battery charger under one condition: Use it indoors to be safe.

In my opinion, this is a good example of free energy. It's application would be well suited to remote places where you wanted to charge a battery and had no power source.

Some more notes about free static electricity:
The amount of power in the atmosphere can be calculated by looking at measurements made by scientists. We know from these measurements the following data:

1. The average voltage gradient measured at the near surface of the earth is 100v / meter. This amount can become up to 300 v / meter, or as low as 50V / meter, depending on several conditions like time of day, weather, and location on the earth, etc.

2. The average current leaking from the surface of the earth is 2000 amps. This 2000 amps is settling on the surface of the earth, which measures 510,066,000 sq km. This means that for each sq meter of earth surface, there is an average of 3.9 microamps leaking into the atmosphere.

3. Because at the lower levels, the atmosphere is air, it is also a very good insulator, which is the reason why there is only a slow leakage of current from the upper ionosphere.

4. The idea of stringing a wire up into the sky to collect the free power from this voltage gradient will not work efficiently without some more engineering. Erecting a wire in the air in a vertical direction will cause the voltage gradient in the air to deform. This happens because the wire will form a short circuit that connects the ground to the voltage in the air where you are trying to collect a charge. The result is you have moved the ground voltage to a location above where you are trying to collect a charge from. So as the current begins to flow into the top of the charge-collecting antenna, it will quickly pass down the conductor, and the upper voltage will drop to the ground voltage. Then the current will slow down to a trickle, much less than the amount that would freely leak through the atmosphere without the vertical antenna (grounding rod) in place. This will also cause the voltage gradient to become very reduced in the location of the charge-collecting antenna.

Bottom line... the current that you can collect from this antenna is not the same as what would calculate from the undisturbed gradient of 100V/m, and 3.9 microamps in a 1 meter square of surface. But you still collect something, even if less than what is available in an undisturbed gradient. This whole process of disturbing the voltage gradient is what makes the antenna less dangerous than would be expected from a 100v/meter gradient. But beware... there is still a danger if a thunderstorm is brewing... you have built a lightning rod that can easily kill whoever is tinkering with the bottom of the antenna!

Moral of the story:
Keep your antenna indoors like the article says.

Good work, Esteban! :thumb:

Best wishes,
J_P

has this topic been properly debunkered?

Hi,
something is wrong at calculations I think...

if we assume surface of the Earth as 510,066,000 square kms and we know :
1 square km = 1,000meters x 1,000meters = 1,000,000 square meters

we have Earth surface as 510,066,000,000,000 square meters...

Now... assuming your data is correct at current from surface of 2,000Amperes we get really simply the average current from each square meter as:

2,000/510,066,000,000,000 = 3.921 * E-12 or about 4pA/sq meter

But then... your antenna rod will not be sure 1 square meter effective surface ( I think they meant a simple whip antenna.... like for radio receivers)... so you'll probably collect much lower current...

Supposing a uinform field (and it isn't) around antenna and antenna effective area of 1 sq cm we have...

1 sq meter = 100cm x 100cm = 10,000 sq cm

So the expected current for 1 sq cm antenna will be around (really rough calculation) 10,000 times less... or say 3.921 * E-16 Ampere...

We are talking about, then , maybe 392.1 attowatts !!! :lol:

With that average current the full recharge of a 2800mah pack will last (not considering losses, self dicharge and chemical recombinations... etc etc etc cause a rechargeable battery don't last a million year usually...)

815,173,972,602 years ! :razz:

So, that explains, better why it's really a stupid idea...

Kind regards,
Max

Esteban

06-25-2009, 02:33 PM

Max

06-25-2009, 03:35 PM

J_P

Before made bad calculations, only presumptions (where is or who calculate that only is obtained 10 pA!!!), read this:

http://electronicdesign.com/Article/ArticleID/20984/20984.html

Also see patent 7183693:

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=Zwp_AAAAEBAJ&dq=7183693

There are 1,000 power sources in air, not only atmospheric. Material prepared for US Government:

http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/764590-AeuPTN/webviewable/764590.pdf

From Nokia:

http://www.technologyreview.com/communications/22764/ (http://www.technologyreview.com/communications/22764/)

Also see this thread posted by me yesterday:

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15567

And you can found on the web many and many only typing: battery charger by ambient energy

Regards

Esteban

Hi,
I tell you that's ridiculos current! Don't belive me... wire-up the thing and try to recharge your batteries! :razz:

It will take a while... but who cares about ? :D

Say... ice-age time range... or precession time... :lol:

Ok. You posted now different stuff... one thing is talking about energy from the atmospheric voltage gradient ... another is talking about e.g. energy harvesting stuff... like RFIDs and similar things... or things that have solar-cell or wind-turbines etc

The current you can get from the atmosphere is too SMALL.

One thing is using e.g. an electrometer or fet amplifier to detect that it changes etc... another is powering stuff or recharging batteries... you can't in practice.

So what we are talking about here ?

Idiotic schematics from old magazines... or new energy harvesting technology ? :D Pick one and let me know!

Kind regards,
Max

Qiaozhi

06-25-2009, 04:21 PM

There are 1,000 power sources in air, not only atmospheric. Material prepared for US Government:

http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/764590-AeuPTN/webviewable/764590.pdf

But where in this list does it mention harvesting energy from atmospheric static electricity? ->

antenna capture of broadcast .radio energy microwatt to hundreds of milliwatts

power from transmission lines: tens of microwatt to several kilowatts

solar/photovoltaic (W) battery charge~ hundreds of milliwatts to about 10W

small wind turbines: tens to hundreds of watts

small hydroelectric turbines: watts to hundreds of watts

thermal storage battery/direct conversion watts to hundreds of watts

human energy conversion

cranked generator: up to about 300 W

mechanical spring: hundreds of microwatt daily average, tens of watts short-term pulse power power derived from walking hundreds of milliwatts to about 20 W.

Fred

06-25-2009, 05:05 PM

cranked generator: up to about 300 W

So , 1 man = 1/2 horse... :lol:

Still way too much for some...

Max

06-25-2009, 05:30 PM

So , 1 man = 1/2 horse... :lol:

Still way too much for some...

Depends on the man...

1 metric horsepower = 735.499watts ... so a little more than 0.7Kw

If it's kind of a bull... heavy... with lot of muscles can go well beyond the 300watts! :lol:

You have to consider that just for basic functions the body requires around 2400-2500kcalories each day... something 100-125 watts...
not bad...

Now consider the kind of man I'm talking about... that eat 1kg bread at each meal... :lol:

These guys were used to heavy work... and introduced around 8000-9000kcalories each day... kind of trains I would say...
maybe you can power them with coal too directly ! :rolleyes:

But they aren't the trains... the trains are some cadets... during heavy training course : can reach also 12000kilocalories each day! And stay slim! :razz:

Of course, guts, balls etc needed... and hi-consumption in that case is mandatory cause big health failures at such rates will happen shortly if that energy surplus is not consumed about totally everyday...

Don't you have the Navy SEALs training manual under your pillow ???
Good reading at the evening... :D

Kind regards,
Max

J_Player

06-26-2009, 05:21 AM

So the expected current for 1 sq cm antenna will be around (really rough calculation) 10,000 times less... or say 3.921 * E-16 Ampere...

We are talking about, then , maybe 392.1 attowatts !!! :lol:Hi Max,
Yes, you are right. I made a mistake calculating square meter when I should have converted from square Km. Much less power in a square meter. :cool:

But some people have actually extracted usable power from the air. Nicola Tesla, for example. He powered a car from energy extracted from the air using an antenna, causing the car to travel easily to 90 miles per hour with an electric motor. He also put usable power in the air that caused fluorescent lights to light up 20 miles away.

Best wishes,
J_P

Max

06-26-2009, 11:19 AM

Hi Max,
Yes, you are right. I made a mistake calculating square meter when I should have converted from square Km. Much less power in a square meter. :cool:

But some people have actually extracted usable power from the air. Nicola Tesla, for example. He powered a car from energy extracted from the air using an antenna, causing the car to travel easily to 90 miles per hour with an electric motor. He also put usable power in the air that caused fluorescent lights to light up 20 miles away.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
not extracting power from atmosphere: I remember Tesla made some experiment with the car that run 90miles... but that was about air (actually space... they would said "aether") as "conductor" of the energy.

That is: there was a powerful RF transmitter tower (the kind Tesla loved so much... very-high voltage Tesla coil driven if I remmeber well, kind of a metallic tower at Colorado Springs... I remember an old picture of it... with kind of a "ball" at top of it, above Tesla's lab building) then the car has a "receiver antenna" made in similar way... and a tuned circuit to get maximum efficiency in the receiving process...
The RF energy radiated by the tower was then collected at selective rf receiver at car... then converted to DC for the car-engine ...electric motor.

Indeed, it was kind of very early energy harvester thing... the radiated power (many kilowatts I guess) were collected at receiver and provide energy to the propulsion system of the car.

Due to the slight attenuation in the 90miles range from transmitter and carefully tuned rx the car was able to get enough power to run...

This was a demo of how electric energy can be translated in RF and then radiated in the space for remote powering of devices... just that happened in the kilowatts range of power! :shocked: No like RFID and the like... that indeed use very small power and get also very few from harvesting that.

Also, I think today is not possible replicate such experiments cause all modern countries have severe regulation on emission power/frequencies...
A transmitter like Tesla's one could easy swamp any RF communication in a range of 100 and maybe also 1000miles around! :lol:

There was also a kind of race for best idea in energy carring methods... like hi voltage dc vs ac etc and Tesla play a role in that along with other brilliant minds of that age.

This experiment had no real applications (till today attention to remote micropowering) cause it obviously creates huge problems to radio communications and exposure to very hi EM fields (possibly dangerous for people and environment in the megawatts/gigawatts range).

So... not power from air/atmosphere but... just using "air" as channel.;)

I read of experiments using air for generate power but that are really much more complex than Esteban's posted funny article... they use kind of suspended ballons (by some kevlar wire I think) at relatively high height from soil... there are that include hi-speed turbine inside... to use jetstreams and the like , hi height hi speed airflows... and other that in kind of "farms" collect charges from clouds... but I think there's nothing more than experiments and academic interest to them... not real potential of future applications if not e.g. in aerospace designs.:rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

pike

06-26-2009, 12:24 PM

Hi,
not extracting power from atmosphere: I remember Tesla.

That is: there was a powerful RF transmitter tower

hi EM fields (possibly dangerous for people and environment in the megawatts/gigawatts range).
than Esteban's posted funny article...

Kind regards,
Max

One can even charge from persons body, persons electric fields gets diminished during Orgasm. even field generated by protons too get canceled in ones body, if one gets orgasm first then the persons characteristics re transferred into the other one. if u mate with so called bramhins, then thier dirty charcteristics r transferred.

What happened to Max, Elie doll, got drowned in resession. resession has come due to transfer of jobs and billions of money to Indian subcontinent, and , these fellows mug up( prctise problems many times) and pass top institutes in India, and join to become executives taking huge sums as salary, MNC's like Citi bnk,HSBC Barkley too has these executives finally leading to the down fall of these institutuions......now they r getting bashings in australia specially from north as their govt has come again ......too much to say

Fred

06-26-2009, 01:23 PM

So Max was right after all, balls are needed ...but you don´t mention guts,however they don´t work separately...
Max ,you´re good ! :lol:

Max

06-26-2009, 01:53 PM

One can even charge from persons body, persons electric fields gets diminished during Orgasm. even field generated by protons too get canceled in ones body, if one gets orgasm first then the persons characteristics re transferred into the other one. if u mate with so called bramhins, then thier dirty charcteristics r transferred.

What happened to Max, Elie doll, got drowned in resession. resession has come due to transfer of jobs and billions of money to Indian subcontinent, and , these fellows mug up( prctise problems many times) and pass top institutes in India, and join to become executives taking huge sums as salary, MNC's like Citi bnk,HSBC Barkley too has these executives finally leading to the down fall of these institutuions......now they r getting bashings in australia specially from north as their govt has come again ......too much to say

:lol:

as always PIKE... you're more drunk than me! :razz:

Or did you study to become suru guru ? :D

Hmmmm... I think maybe you used too much eye cream... your vision is confused... :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

Esteban

06-26-2009, 03:19 PM

So Max was right after all, balls are needed ...but you don´t mention guts,however they don´t work separately...
Max ,you´re good ! :lol:

Ahh!!! I see!!! Spike and Chester! :razz: :lol: Everybody knows who is Spike and who is Chester! Regarding balls, who is that of the most fallen side? :lol:

Monolith

06-26-2009, 03:24 PM

Free energy is like a free lunch. How free is it?
Perpetum mobile are not possible, what is possible is to find new ways to capture energy sources that are present in nature.
If you have ever lived in a place where there are many thunderstorms, you have probably witnessed "St.Elms fire" and such phenomena. I can tell you it is a terrorizing experience to be caught in such a high intensity static electrical field.
Maybe that is when my brain got fried.

Anyway, here is an idea to capture natures free energy.
Take a wheel like from a bicycle, with a diameter of 30cm. Put it into the position where the axle is horizontal.
It has spokes.
Add lead weights on each spoke so that the weight is evenly distributed and the wheel turns smoothly. the weights are not fixed, but can freely slide on the spokes, but the space to slide is only 0.1mm.

Now start cranking this wheel. When the wheel reaches a certain speed, the centrifugal force will push the weights against the rim. There is pressure between the rim and the weight.
If you place a piezo electric generator (google that) between the weight and the the rim, the piezo electric generator will produce electricity.

The generation of the electricity happens while the pressure on the piezo element is applied and when it is removed again. You get a sine wave output if you apply the pressure in repetitive cycles.

How to get the cycles?

When the wheel turns a the critical velocity, where the centrifugal force is 1G, then the weights exert 0 force on the piezo element when at the top and 2G when at the bottom.

Monolith

J_Player

06-27-2009, 06:23 AM

Hi,
not extracting power from atmosphere: I remember Tesla made some experiment with the car that run 90miles... but that was about air (actually space... they would said "aether") as "conductor" of the energy.

That is: there was a powerful RF transmitter tower (the kind Tesla loved so much... very-high voltage Tesla coil driven if I remmeber well, kind of a metallic tower at Colorado Springs... I remember an old picture of it... with kind of a "ball" at top of it, above Tesla's lab building) then the car has a "receiver antenna" made in similar way... and a tuned circuit to get maximum efficiency in the receiving process...
The RF energy radiated by the tower was then collected at selective rf receiver at car... then converted to DC for the car-engine ...electric motor.

Indeed, it was kind of very early energy harvester thing... the radiated power (many kilowatts I guess) were collected at receiver and provide energy to the propulsion system of the car.

Due to the slight attenuation in the 90miles range from transmitter and carefully tuned rx the car was able to get enough power to run...

This was a demo of how electric energy can be translated in RF and then radiated in the space for remote powering of devices... just that happened in the kilowatts range of power! :shocked: No like RFID and the like... that indeed use very small power and get also very few from harvesting that.

Also, I think today is not possible replicate such experiments cause all modern countries have severe regulation on emission power/frequencies...
A transmitter like Tesla's one could easy swamp any RF communication in a range of 100 and maybe also 1000miles around! :lol:

There was also a kind of race for best idea in energy carring methods... like hi voltage dc vs ac etc and Tesla play a role in that along with other brilliant minds of that age.

This experiment had no real applications (till today attention to remote micropowering) cause it obviously creates huge problems to radio communications and exposure to very hi EM fields (possibly dangerous for people and environment in the megawatts/gigawatts range).

So... not power from air/atmosphere but... just using "air" as channel.;)

I read of experiments using air for generate power but that are really much more complex than Esteban's posted funny article... they use kind of suspended ballons (by some kevlar wire I think) at relatively high height from soil... there are that include hi-speed turbine inside... to use jetstreams and the like , hi height hi speed airflows... and other that in kind of "farms" collect charges from clouds... but I think there's nothing more than experiments and academic interest to them... not real potential of future applications if not e.g. in aerospace designs.:rolleyes:

Kind regards,
MaxHi Max,
Apparently, you did not read the article. The car that Tesla built did not receive power transmitted from a tower.

The tower near Colorado springs was a test bed Tesla used before he built his larger tower on the Atlantic coast. Its purpose was to transmit power, but not through the air waves. If you read Tesla's history, you will discover he worked for Edison, designing DC motors and generators. He made many improvements, but he could not convince Edison to convert to his better idea of AC generators. After some arguments with Edison, Tesla went to Westinghouse and told him how much better AC would work. So Westinghouse hired him to make an AC system. Edison then started a propaganda campaign against AC in order to help protect his DC power sales. Eventually, Edison lost, and ended up converting his generators to AC like everyone else.

After Tesla finished his work converting the world to AC power, he went on with his experiments to transmit wireless power, using large high voltage coils that were designed to resonate with some natural frequency of the earth. If you examine his patents closely, you will see he was transmitting power through the ground. The high voltage coil was mounted above ground because it would short out if it was buried, and because it needed to be above ground in order to get assistance from the upper atmosphere. The coil was only for inputting power and creating the correct voltages and frequencies needed. The power was sent out into the ground. J P Morgan, a banker in New York was financing his final experiments in this power transmitting tower. But when Morgan discovered that anyone could install power receiver equipment to tap into his power source without paying, he cut off his support to Tesla. Within a short time the tower was abandoned when still in the construction stages. Eventually the tower was dismantled before any power was sent from it.

Tesla was also the inventor of radio broadcast. In recent years it was discovered that Marconi got his ideas from Tesla's patents, and his long title of inventor of radio broadcasting was rescinded and given to Tesla. But Tesla considered air wave broadcast to be a poor method of transmitting for communications as well as for power. He figured that 95% of the signal is lost when broadcast into the air. But when broadcast into the ground, most of the signal was conserved. Tesla did however use methods to transmit and receive signals and power through the air, for purposes of power and communication on aircraft.

The story of the car did not happen until later, when Tesla had no transmitting towers to experiment with. He was living in a modest apartment, and he built the power transducer in his apartment with a hand full of electronic parts and some tubes that were normally used in radio receivers at that time. He ordered the electric motor made specially to his specifications by Westinghouse. "Due to the slight attenuation in the 90miles range from transmitter and carefully tuned rx the car was able to get enough power to run.".
There was no 90 miles range from a transmitter. There was no transmitter. There was only an electronic box that Tesla built to be put into the glove box of the car, and an antenna. The 90 miles means he was able to travel up to 90 miles per hour. This same power source was also able to power a house. Nobody knows what the source of power was that he tapped into. This is because he never patented this method, and kept the details secret. Speculations have been made that he tapped into the same ionizing power source in the upper ionosphere that causes the 100V/ meter voltage gradient at the surface. ei: it is ultimately sun power working in the outer ionosphere layers.

Tesla began with the idea to generate power and transmit it to all parts of the earth to provide free power for everyone. He later discovered he could use his equipment to send more power than he generated -- power from the outer layers of the ionosphere where the sun adds power to the earth. This is the power source that is speculated was used to run his car. "Free power", in the sense that you don't pay for the power you consume. And it is the same power source that Esteban originally showed an article which was designed to tap into for free. Only, Esteban's example seems like a very crude way that maybe is not capable of charging a battery very well.

You can read the story of Tesla's car here: http://www.tfcbooks.com/teslafaq/q&a_016.htm

You will see this is NOT an example of using the air for a transmitting medium to receive power transmitted from a tower on the ground.

Best wishes,
J_P

Fred

06-27-2009, 02:13 PM

Max

06-27-2009, 07:55 PM

Hi,
I read in different places... websites etc...

seems some talk of free-energy device unknown source, other that talks of atmopheric energy harversting device... and also as I remember , that the car was remotely powered by a transmitter made by Tesla just for that... transmitting power using the air as "channel".

Now... I stay with my idea... Tesla found a way to remote power the car ...then run it with the electric motor installed... and it worked around 1930 or something.

I belive the story is true, just seems much 90mph as speed... really much... but who knows... spending hundreds Kw of radiating energy or finding a low-loss way to transfer it to the car can also explain that... seems the electric motor mounted in place of ICE was around 80HP... so something about 59Kw not small stuff... and a car can run at 90mph with such engine inside up and running!:D

Expecially if the road goes down... :lol:

Now someone said that the power that supplied the transmitter used by Tesla was derived from e.g. ionosphere/earth circuit... so was the free energy we are talking about... but not the car by itself.

Kind regards,
Max

Max

06-27-2009, 08:01 PM

This is interesting JP.
By creating a ionized conductive "tube" between the upper and lower layers of atmosphere, i can imagine the monstruous amount of current that will flow between them...

Ebookee has a great amount of books about Tesla.

regards,
Fred.

Yes... but ... if so... he made that stuff inside a car ?

I think the device, if exist, cannot be so small or simple to be carried in the car... expecially in the 30's were just some vacuum tubes available... so not small stuff... everything was big... resistors , capacitors etc

I think Tesla used a separate transmitter to power the car remotely.

But which kind of energy the transmitter used I don't know... maybe he just bought the electric energy from some electric company... maybe he discovered a way to get free energy from ionosphere/earth ... who knows !?

I also think there's much speculation about these issues... cause many people talk/write stuff without understand anything of this stuff... so it's a big mess of pseudoscience and hurban-legends around these facts.

Kind regards,
Max

Fred

06-27-2009, 10:58 PM

Yes... but ... if so... he made that stuff inside a car ?
Max
I don´t think so, i understand the the car secret was not revealed?

J_Player

06-28-2009, 12:33 AM

Yes... but ... if so... he made that stuff inside a car ?

I think the device, if exist, cannot be so small or simple to be carried in the car... expecially in the 30's were just some vacuum tubes available... so not small stuff... everything was big... resistors , capacitors etc

I think Tesla used a separate transmitter to power the car remotely.

But which kind of energy the transmitter used I don't know... maybe he just bought the electric energy from some electric company... maybe he discovered a way to get free energy from ionosphere/earth ... who knows !?

I also think there's much speculation about these issues... cause many people talk/write stuff without understand anything of this stuff... so it's a big mess of pseudoscience and hurban-legends around these facts.

Kind regards,
MaxHi Max,
Tesla was a genius from Croatia who moved to the USA where he found more industries he was interested in. His Idea was to provide free energy for all people, because he thought this would help to remove the reasons for wars. He discovered that when he built machines for free energy, the governments wanted to take his machines to make more war. In his later years, he was more secretive to protect his ideas and keep them from the govenrments for use in more wars.

His power transducer used in the car is not known. There have been many speculations by people who read the stories. The scientists usually decide they cannot determine what was the principle and power source. But Pseudoscientists love this story because they can use it to help them prove their pseudoscience theories, like perpetual motion, and free energy from a vacum, etc. Because the details were secret, a pseudoscientist can say he discovered Tesla's secret, and has modified the machine to find treasures long range, or to make free power.

But what makes sense?
Tesla's later experiments showed that if he built a large high voltage transformer and caused it to create a path (ionized air tube) that reached from the ionosphere to the ground, and AC was applied at the proper frequency, then he could draw surplus power from the ionsphere into his coil, more power than he used to open the path to the ionosphere.

Tesla's method of obtaining power from the ionosphere brought DC pulses similar to 1/2 wave rectified AC. The pulses from the ionosphere helped a resonant circuit in his high voltage transformer to increase in power. This resonant circuit was part of the high voltage primary, which he powered to produce the secondary voltage. The power he received can be sent to any power equipment you want... batteries, motors, capacitor banks, etc. But it should be large power handling equipment if you intend to use a large amount of the ionosphere power.

There was no ground transmitter that ran Tesla's car. His last tower was dismantled years before. He was living alone in a modest apartment in New York, and had no access to towers and large power broadcasting equipment. Nobody else was experimenting with these towers at that time. There was no power station sending power to the car. Therefore, the most likely source of power is the ionosphere. Tesla gave details how to connect to the ionosphere on many occasions. He even showed all details in his patents. For this reason, it seems likely that this is the source of power for his car.

The removable box for his car did not only contain tubes. It also had capacitors, resistors, connecting wires, etc, in the style of old radio connecting methods. If I am correct in my opinion about Tesla's power source, then this box was the controller that kept the primary side of the high voltage transformer to the correct frequency and power level. There were more parts that were located in the car permanently. The 80 HP motor was installed in place of the ICE engine. I suspect there also must have been some large salt water capacitors used for high voltage in those days. And a battery that was used to create the initial power to energize the primary and establish a conductive tube to the ionosphere. When the power circuit begins to work and receive power, then I would think the power is controlled by the accelerator pedal connected to a rheostat for the controller box. But there also must be an auxiliary power circuit for charging the battery to run the lights and instruments. The motor was 220 VAC, so there must have been some small transformer and rectifier to charge the battery.

I think all those parts were permanently installed on the car. But Tesla kept the controller circuit secret in a removable box, so nobody would discover the details of how he made this controller. I think it is probably similar to his large megawatt designs, but scaled down for less power, and it probably has improvements that his larger patented versions did not have. Possibly the high voltage transformer was installed permanently in the car, but it may have been inside the electronic control box if Tesla figured a way to miniaturize it when re-designing for low power. We know the antenna plugged into the box.

When you read more of the Tesla papers, remember -- there are many pseudoscientists saying they have machines that work on Tesla's same principles. You will read talk about Auras, time travel, gravity transformations, and other strange science. But these are BS. -- Not the same as what Tesla did. Tesla produced real power that you can use to run motors and lights in your home. Not just a lot of talk with fake breadboard demonstrations and secret experiments that are too dangerous for anyone to know about. Read Tesla's patents and see for yourself. Better yet, look at the AC power plug on your wall. It would not be there if Tesla did not design it and the power generating equipment that makes it feed power to you.

Best wishes,
J_P

Max

06-28-2009, 09:15 AM

I don´t think so, i understand the the car secret was not revealed?

Hi,
I read of a wooden box long 24'' he mounted in the car...then connected to the motor ... and also that he bought some maybe 12 vacuum tubes at a local shop when went to the factory to change the ICE with the electric motor... maybe tubes required for some control circuit than for receive the signal.

I guess generated TX signal was at least 100Kw power.

Now... if so, I guess the tubes at receiver could be just simple e.g. triodes or something like that...

That make me think Tesla made a kind of rf receiver, probably very easy receiver cause of dimensions of the box , but maybe enough to get the power from antenna to the motor... in the 50Kw range.

Now... for TX some old tubes are rated hi power 100 Kwatts range and more... an example of that is RCA862 (water cooled, 100Kw range triode).

The tube patent by RCA is around 1928... so compatible with Tesla experiment of the car. We have also to consider that Tesla probably had ability to use such "advanced" technology well before commercial distribution of them... cause companies trusted him , at least for some time.

Now... suppose Tesla used such 100Kw or more transmitter... :D and realized a receiver capable of getting 58Kw from the air... well... the car could effectively run then , and no special or fictionary explaination required.

I think so: he used hi power tubes for generating a gigantic radiated power... in a way he can then receive it at car with simple/small device connected to the motor and run it.

Why not ? Is that the essence of that experiments... carring electric power without cables/wires... but simply air. :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

Max

06-28-2009, 09:32 AM

Hi Max,
Tesla was a genius from Croatia who moved to the USA where he found more industries he was interested in. His Idea was to provide free energy for all people, because he thought this would help to remove the reasons for wars. He discovered that when he built machines for free energy, the governments wanted to take his machines to make more war. In his later years, he was more secretive to protect his ideas and keep them from the govenrments for use in more wars.

His power transducer used in the car is not known. There have been many speculations by people who read the stories. The scientists usually decide they cannot determine what was the principle and power source. But Pseudoscientists love this story because they can use it to help them prove their pseudoscience theories, like perpetual motion, and free energy from a vacum, etc. Because the details were secret, a pseudoscientist can say he discovered Tesla's secret, and has modified the machine to find treasures long range, or to make free power.

But what makes sense?
Tesla's later experiments showed that if he built a large high voltage transformer and caused it to create a path (ionized air tube) that reached from the ionosphere to the ground, and AC was applied at the proper frequency, then he could draw surplus power from the ionsphere into his coil, more power than he used to open the path to the ionosphere.

Tesla's method of obtaining power from the ionosphere brought DC pulses similar to 1/2 wave rectified AC. The pulses from the ionosphere helped a resonant circuit in his high voltage transformer to increase in power. This resonant circuit was part of the high voltage primary, which he powered to produce the secondary voltage. The power he received can be sent to any power equipment you want... batteries, motors, capacitor banks, etc. But it should be large power handling equipment if you intend to use a large amount of the ionosphere power.

There was no ground transmitter that ran Tesla's car. His last tower was dismantled years before. He was living alone in a modest apartment in New York, and had no access to towers and large power broadcasting equipment. Nobody else was experimenting with these towers at that time. There was no power station sending power to the car. Therefore, the most likely source of power is the ionosphere. Tesla gave details how to connect to the ionosphere on many occasions. He even showed all details in his patents. For this reason, it seems likely that this is the source of power for his car.

The removable box for his car did not only contain tubes. It also had capacitors, resistors, connecting wires, etc, in the style of old radio connecting methods. If I am correct in my opinion about Tesla's power source, then this box was the controller that kept the primary side of the high voltage transformer to the correct frequency and power level. There were more parts that were located in the car permanently. The 80 HP motor was installed in place of the ICE engine. I suspect there also must have been some large salt water capacitors used for high voltage in those days. And a battery that was used to create the initial power to energize the primary and establish a conductive tube to the ionosphere. When the power circuit begins to work and receive power, then I would think the power is controlled by the accelerator pedal connected to a rheostat for the controller box. But there also must be an auxiliary power circuit for charging the battery to run the lights and instruments. The motor was 220 VAC, so there must have been some small transformer and rectifier to charge the battery.

I think all those parts were permanently installed on the car. But Tesla kept the controller circuit secret in a removable box, so nobody would discover the details of how he made this controller. I think it is probably similar to his large megawatt designs, but scaled down for less power, and it probably has improvements that his larger patented versions did not have. Possibly the high voltage transformer was installed permanently in the car, but it may have been inside the electronic control box if Tesla figured a way to miniaturize it when re-designing for low power. We know the antenna plugged into the box.

When you read more of the Tesla papers, remember -- there are many pseudoscientists saying they have machines that work on Tesla's same principles. You will read talk about Auras, time travel, gravity transformations, and other strange science. But these are BS. -- Not the same as what Tesla did. Tesla produced real power that you can use to run motors and lights in your home. Not just a lot of talk with fake breadboard demonstrations and secret experiments that are too dangerous for anyone to know about. Read Tesla's patents and see for yourself. Better yet, look at the AC power plug on your wall. It would not be there if Tesla did not design it and the power generating equipment that makes it feed power to you.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
I think nobody knows exactly cause he used secrecy in that years...
but even if no large tx tower exist anymore at the time of the car experiment ( I simply don't know ) there is the possibility he made a smaller tramsmitter stuff just for that experiment, with a reasonable small antenna for to power the car remotely.

Seems to me about difficault he made everything as stand-alone in the car... including a supposed working ionosphere harvesting device... all in that car.

I cannot say anything for sure about... but I think the idea of remote powering of the car is far more realistic than having all stuff onboard, also considering space required at that time for electric/electronic devices... huge stuff... and much weight that sum to the car's own weight.

I think he wanna just demonstrate to the world the potential of remote powering with that car... no fuel required, no smoke/exausts produced, no noise, no complex carburetors/supply system etc just the car will tap at the air... getting power from rf.

It's like today's low-maintenance remote sensors for alarms... no cables...no batteries required and no pain go there... to change them... just they're powered by the central unit by rf.

Kind regards,
Max

J_Player

06-28-2009, 12:44 PM

Seems to me about difficault he made everything as stand-alone in the car... including a supposed working ionosphere harvesting device... all in that car.

I cannot say anything for sure about... but I think the idea of remote powering of the car is far more realistic than having all stuff onboard, also considering space required at that time for electric/electronic devices... huge stuff... and much weight that sum to the car's own weight.

I think he wanna just demonstrate to the world the potential of remote powering with that car... no fuel required, no smoke/exausts produced, no noise, no complex carburetors/supply system etc just the car will tap at the air... getting power from rf.I doubt this is true. Tesla did not build any power transmitting towers at that time, nor did anyone else. It was not possible to build such a tower without alerting someone that there is a new tower that is sending out power. This was also at a time when Tesla did not have a laboratory to conduct his experiments. He spent most of his time in his modest apartment.

Secondly, none of Tesla's power transmitters sent power through the air using RF. They sent power through the ground at sub-RF frequencies, and used receiving equipment that received the transmitted power from the ground. If the car had a receiver to collect power from a transmission station, then the car would need to have a grounding rod buried in the ground in order to receive this power. But the car is rolling on rubber wheels, and cannot be connected to a grounding rod. So this circuit could not possibly completed to the car when it was moving. Read his patents and you will see the power cannot be received without at least one grounding rod driven a minimum of a few feet into the ground, preferably at least 20 feet deep.

Maybe better to look to the concept of drawing power from the ionosphere as Tesla described.

Best wishes,
J_P

Fred

06-28-2009, 01:52 PM

Interesting drawing, right on the subject of what we were talking before :-)

J_Player

06-28-2009, 02:09 PM

Interesting drawing, right on the subject of what we were talking before :-)Hi Fred,
This is correct. Tesla created designs to tap into the immense power available in the ionosphere during his later work, when he developed methods of sending out more power from his transmission towers than he put into them. His earlier designs were only to send power into the earth through deep grounding rods. It was a scheme to use the earth as a conductor for single-wire transmission. The transmission station sent the power into a very deep grounding rod and "pumped" the earth to send it to anyone who put a rod into the ground with a tuned receiving station connected to collect some of his power. When he discovered he could tap into the charge in the ionosphere, he realized that this could only be done if you created a high enough voltage to ionize a conductive path from the earth to the ionosphere. Tesla's machines that drew power from the ionosphere were only receiving coils. The power received was then sent to his transmission station into the ground to be transmitted to people who wanted to tap into the ground to use it.

In order to understand what Tesla was doing, it is important to separate his method of transmitting power, and his method of drawing power from the ionosphere. These are two different concepts. Drawing power from the ionosphere was accomplished by creating a conductive path to the ionosphere and using a circuit for collecting the ionosphere's charge. His circuit to transmit power involved using an AC resonant circuit to send large amounts of power into the earth via a deeply buried grounding rod. The path for power transmission was the earth, not the air.

Here is what Tesla said in his early years about his power transmission and communications transmission, taken from Colliers Weekly magazine in 1901:
"Some ten years ago, I recognized the fact that to convey electric currents to a distance it was not at all necessary to employ a return wire, but that any amount of energy might be transmitted by using a single wire. I illustrated this principle by numerous experiments, which, at that time, excited considerable attention among scientific men.

This being practically demonstrated, my next step was to use the earth itself as the medium for conducting the currents, thus dispensing with wires and all other artificial conductors. So I was led to the development of a system of energy transmission and of telegraphy without the use of wires, which I described in 1893. The difficulties I encountered at first in the transmission of currents through the earth were very great. At that time I had at hand only ordinary apparatus, which I found to be ineffective, and I concentrated my attention immediately upon perfecting machines for this special purpose. This work consumed a number of years, but I finally vanquished all difficulties and succeeded in producing a machine which, to explain its operation in plain language, resembled a pump in its action, drawing electricity from the earth and driving it back into the same at an enormous rate, thus creating ripples or disturbances which, spreading through the earth as through a wire, could be detected at great distances by carefully attuned receiving circuits. In this manner I was able to transmit to a distance, not only feeble effects for the purposes of signaling, but considerable amounts of energy, and later discoveries I made convinced me that I shall ultimately succeed in conveying power without wires, for industrial purposes, with high economy, and to any distance, however great".

It was later that Tesla discovered he could draw power from the ionosphere. This led him to direct his attention to the enormous amount of power available that could be put to use, and new experiments to refine the methods to harness it.

Best wishes,
J_P

homefire

07-04-2009, 05:14 PM

Pending!

Qiaozhi

07-04-2009, 06:03 PM

Pending!
What? :shrug:

homefire

07-04-2009, 07:30 PM

I have not tried this.

I would think candle was was Dielectric.

Hydrocarbons burning (WAX) would produce free electrons.

What to hell the Magnet was about I have no Idea.

Are the Two flames producing a ION battery?

I think this is a ruse. I think there are batteries within the candles and the Ions from the flame Completes the circuit.

Some candle wicks have a wire within them! This could make it work. BUSTED> I BE THINKIN

What do you think?

Here you go. :lol:

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo160/berquistj/th_candles.jpg (http://s371.photobucket.com/albums/oo160/berquistj/?action=view&current=candles.flv)

J_Player

07-04-2009, 07:52 PM

Qiaozhi

07-04-2009, 08:11 PM

What :eek: !!!
Amazing!
It's easy enough to find out. Got some spare candles?

Best wishes,
J_P
Not that amazing. It's a simple magic trick.
Note how he puts at least one hand below the table top whenever he lights the candles or blows them out. No doubt there's a power source below the table that's connected to the two nails.

homefire

07-04-2009, 08:50 PM

Yea! Some thing is a miss!

Wax can not and will not conduct electrons.!:lol:

A coil under the table! Open Ended Transformer. :cool:

We have high tension wires not to far from my house.

If you park under the 370,000 volt they Carry , you get shocked opening your car door.

If you live under them your going to end up with Leukemia!

A spool of 12 gauge 100ft wire placed under it produces enough power to light a small bulb. Open circuit Voltage was 600 volts.

Qiaozhi

07-04-2009, 10:49 PM

Qiaozhi

07-05-2009, 01:25 AM

It's not even that complicated.
Stop the camera, push the nails all the way through the candles. Attach wires behind candles (out of sight). Start camera. Voila!
... and here's the proof! :cool:

Picture #1 was taken just before rubbing the nails with the magnet, and picture #2 was taken just after showing the magnet.

First the camera is stopped and restarted to give a closeup of the nails and magnet. The camera is then stopped again and restarted back at the original zoom level. Compare how far the nails are pushed into the candles in each snapshot. It is clear that they are pushed in further in picture #2, and obviously protrude from the rear of each candle.

Is anyone prepared to own up that they actually tried it? :lol:

J_Player

07-05-2009, 04:23 AM

... and here's the proof! :cool:

Picture #1 was taken just before rubbing the nails with the magnet, and picture #2 was taken just after showing the magnet.

First the camera is stopped and restarted to give a closeup of the nails and magnet. The camera is then stopped again and restarted back at the original zoom level. Compare how far the nails are pushed into the candles in each snapshot. It is clear that they are pushed in further in picture #2, and obviously protrude from the rear of each candle.

Is anyone prepared to own up that they actually tried it? :lol:Did you notice there are no follow-up posts at the bottom of this video? I wonder...
Is the maker of this video thinking.... "how many retards can I get to dig out some candles and try this BS? Muhahahaaaa...

Best wishes,
J_P

Fred

07-05-2009, 07:26 PM

Well spoted Qiaozhi,
This is because of some idiots like this one that nobody can thrust each other and we loos so much time .
On the other side it helps some others to keep sharp :lol:

monay

10-31-2009, 06:35 AM

This happens because the wire will form a short circuit that connects the ground to the voltage in the air where you are trying to collect a charge. The result is you have moved the ground voltage to a location above where you are trying to collect a charge from. So as the current begins to flow into the top of the charge-collecting antenna, it will quickly pass down the conductor, and the upper voltage will drop to the ground voltage.
__________________________________________________ __

(http://www.dvdcollectionsale.com/CSI-Lasvegas-Seasons-1-9-DVD-Boxset-DVD-1571.html)

Qiaozhi

10-31-2009, 10:36 AM