IR Lasing Gold

[Seden]

I was reading this article on Nanotechweb.org (Sept.12,2007) entitled "When gold shines even brighter" and thought of Estebans IR Remote sensor. Don't know in any way if there's a relation but heres the link to the article:
http://nanotechweb.org/cws/article/lab/31120
and a quote from it "Excitation of films with the 795 nm fundamental of a Ti:sapphire femtosecond laser produces a strong white luminescence." The films from the quote are gold films. Now when you read it you will notice that there was some tuning involved depending on the thickness I believe but pretty interesting none the less.

Also speaking of IR, I've been following a thread on the Treasurenet Forum under "Techniques" whereby a fellow claims to use a camera with an IR filter to photograph ions on the earths surface at close range where metal has been buried for some time,anyone try this? I went an bought a IR longpass filter and tried photographing an area on my lawn where for the past 11 years I have been dumping my concentrates from placer mining and nada darn thing appeared on the IR picture no matter how I adjusted the settings on the GOOGLE Picassa software.

Comments on either or both?

Randy

[J_Player]

a quote from it "Excitation of films with the 795 nm fundamental of a Ti:sapphire femtosecond laser produces a strong white luminescence." The films from the quote are gold films. Now when you read it you will notice that there was some tuning involved depending on the thickness I believe but pretty interesting none the less.Hmmmm...
I see the words "excitation", "gold" and "tuning" all came from the same article. This pretty much proves that gold has a frequency that can be tuned to, and that LRLs will locate the gold at distance. Doesn't it?

...a fellow claims to use a camera with an IR filter to photograph ions on the earths surface at close range where metal has been buried for some time,anyone try this? I went an bought a IR longpass filter and tried photographing an area on my lawn where for the past 11 years I have been dumping my concentrates from placer mining and nada darn thing appeared on the IR picture no matter how I adjusted the settings on the GOOGLE Picassa software.There is a much easier way to obtain instant results using an old digital camera. Digital cameras are sensitive to IR on their image sensors. In order to remove unwanted IR that spoils pictures, manufacturers put an IR filter over the image sensor. You can disassemble an old digital camera and remove the IR filter from the image sensor, then replace it with a visible light filter that passes IR. This has been done by hobbyists, using a visible light filter made from a piece of 35mm negative film that has been developed. They cut a piece of film from the opaque end of the negative roll of film, and use it to stop visible light, while passing IR.
You can see some details on how to do this online: http://geektechnique.org/index.php?id=254

The advantage to using a modified digital camera is you get instant results, and save the cost of filters, developing and printing, This means the digital camera can be used as a view port to look for sources of IR in relation to buried treasures. No need to wait for prints to be made.

P.S. Gold or gold concentrates dumped on the surface of the ground will not generate ions as gold buried beneath the ground. Scientists have discovered that gold ions are formed below the surface where gold-digesting microorganisms live and attack the gold with chemicals. These ions migrate upward through the soil until they reach 10-30cm below the surface. At this point, the ions become bound with the constituents of the soil (gold compounds, as in metallic gold, gold tellurides, or possibly organic compounds in extremely small amounts). Since your tailings never spent much time in contact with soil at the ion-generating depths, I doubt it has any ions around it. In fact, your IR photos proved it does not show an IR anomaly.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Seden]

JPlayer,

I didn't remove the filter from my camera so thanks for explaining this. I paid and downloaded a book this englishman wrote on using IR to detect the soil signature of long buried items and the pictures looked very convincing so will have to buy an old camera and take out the IR blocking filter. Yeah I remember now why they did that. Guy's discovered that they could take pictures of clothed women and see beneath them,that was quite a hoot! I guess that would lend new meaning to the phrase "He undresses me with his eyes";)

The book is entitled "Discovering Treasure Auras in the Digital Age by David Villanueva" which will set you back $19 to download,but a good read and interesting.

Randy

[J_Player]

Yeah I remember now why they did that. Guy's discovered that they could take pictures of clothed women and see beneath them...Why do I get the feeling that a new "off topic" thread is about to start? :rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

I made this experiment: put an old IR shielded module into a plastic tube. I use at level of soil 30-40 cm and obtain signal of site just other pistols beeps, so the object emits!

[Fred]

The book is entitled "Discovering Treasure Auras in the Digital Age by David Villanueva" which will set you back $19 to download,but a good read and interesting.
Randy
Would not it be more productive just to search treasures instead o selling book telling how to do it?

[Qiaozhi]

Would not it be more productive just to search treasures instead o selling book telling how to do it?
Only if the technique really works. :rolleyes:

[Theseus]

Would not it be more productive just to search treasures instead o selling book telling how to do it?

Good point! :D

Reminds of the LRL/MFD concept and contraptions. If finding treasure with paint roller handles actually worked; wouldn't it be more lucrative to just use them - rather than trying to sell them to the gullible and technically-challenged??? ;)

Of course let's not forget... a paint roller handle does find treasure, exactly ONCE! When your money is deposited into the Wallet-miner's bank account.

After that, the paint roller handle is just a piece of scrap metal, having all the same treasure locating possibilities as random digging. :lol:

[Seden]

Just as you predicted this thread started going south with the usual crowd. Esteban thank you for sharing that information as you are one of the very few on Geotech that actually designs and builds things where others in their arm chairs just tap away on the keyboard with sarcastic comments.

Gentlemen,what do you think about the article I posted at the start of this thread from Nanotech.org? Did you READ it? Yes,no maybe,gonna do it?

Nice part about it is it's pure science. I really want your input that's why I posted it.

Randy

[Esteban]

Just as you predicted this thread started going south with the usual crowd. Esteban thank you for sharing that information as you are one of the very few on Geotech that actually designs and builds things where others in their arm chairs just tap away on the keyboard with sarcastic comments.

Gentlemen,what do you think about the article I posted at the start of this thread from Nanotech.org? Did you READ it? Yes,no maybe,gonna do it?

Nice part about it is it's pure science. I really want your input that's why I posted it.

Randy


Randy, thanks. Is more easy create sarcastic comments.

[J_Player]

Gentlemen,what do you think about the article I posted at the start of this thread from Nanotech.org? Did you READ it? Yes,no maybe,gonna do it?Hi Randy,
I am going to sit in my armchair in front of the computer and watch to see who does something significant. The obvious answer is to get out that old digital camera and disassemble it, then remove the IR filter and replace it with a piece of 35mm exposed film. Then go out and see what you find in the treasure fields.

However, my free time is limited. I have visions of dismantling a digital camera and hearing a "pop" noise when I accidentally short the flash tube capacitor against the cpu in the camera (I already did this on my last attempt). So I sit in my armchair, ever so patiently waiting for some dedicated hobbyist to post their progress on modifying a digital camera and finding interesting IR images in the treasure fields.

P.S. Kudos to Esteban... Marathon designer and builder of experimental electronic treasure machines. :thumb:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Seden]

JPlayer,

I don't have an old digital camera unfortunately. However regarding the nanotech article, I'm going to ebay and see about getting a laser diode. I've seen them at 750+808nm offered and I'd go for the 808nm first. Got to be careful with the budget as my work hours are getting cut starting in a week (10% cut in pay) and the Mrs. has given specific orders to cool it with the VISA. So when I get the laser and experiment with it will let you know how it goes.

Randy

[J_Player]

Gentlemen,what do you think about the article I posted at the start of this thread from Nanotech.org? Did you READ it? Yes,no maybe,gonna do it?Hi Randy,
I read that article. It doesn't say much about how this principle can be used in a practical manner for treasure hunting. The immediate use that comes to mind is in biological imaging.

However, the article states that a 795 nm Ti:sapphire laser can cause thin films of gold to produce luminescence. These films are produced by a sol-gel spin-coating technique and subsequent annealing at 300 °C or, alternatively, near-infrared (NIR) femtosecond laser irradiation. It seems to me that these are laboratory conditions that are suitable for studying these effects. After the laboratory testing is done, then I expect practical methods will be developed to use this illuminescence in the field of biology in connection with tissue evaluations. The laboratory conditions mentioned in the article involve the sol-gel spin-coating technique. Is it possible that this spin-coating technique translates into conditions found in the dirt from buried treasuure? Not sure about that. I do not think there will be any significant application in the treasure hunting field.

But I may be wrong about this. Perhaps Esteban or others have already perfected the engineering details to cause a glow on the surface of the soil where gold is buried.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Seden]

Jplayer,

I found an 5mw 808nm laser diode with focus capability for $29.50+shipping so will soon find out. I have raw placer gold as well as some I've refined to experiment with.

And if it doesn't work out-so what? On to the next project.

Randy

[Theseus]

Just as you predicted this thread started going south with the usual crowd. Esteban thank you for sharing that information as you are one of the very few on Geotech that actually designs and builds things where others in their arm chairs just tap away on the keyboard with sarcastic comments.
Randy


When you place things in an "open forum" that are obviously fringe technology, having nearly zero validity; you can expect to get many different kinds of comments. They might come from folks in armchairs or in my case from a laptop as I fly over the Atlantic.

The point is, if you were only desirous of comments in support of what you posted, perhaps you should consider forums that are moderated more tightly and only cater to the esoteric, occult and fringe technology topics. ;)

[Theseus]

The following excerpted from
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080213091230AAwDLZA

"My father used to tell me stories about buried treasures and precolumbian gold. Supossedly, the buried gold would produce a blue flame that could be seen at night, and the country people and farmers would go out at night tracing this flames in order to find the treasure. Is this scientifically possible?

There is a wealth of folklore built up around buried gold and lost treasure and mines. Gold is inert; it does not have any kind of reaction with soil or gases, or anything like that, so any blue glow or flames associated with it would be secondary, and not affiliated directly with the gold. It may have been a productive technique--digging in the vicinity of a blue flame, but it wasn't the gold itself giving off the glow.
On a side note--the idea of a 'blue flame' and gold may also be associated on a spiritual level, as within alchemy.

It isn't true. I am sure they saw swamp gas and assumed there was treasure there kind of like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

well ask yourself this question, did they ever find the gold. if they didn't then the stories are just stories."

[Esteban]

Once, a man told me that in an old militar encampment during Triple Alliance War (1864-1870) –the main Allied encampment, 55,000 man live in the site–, he saw small flames for all parts. He told me that these flames occurs before rains. Seems logic, because atmospheric pressure is more low and liberates the "other phenomenon pressed"... like septic chambers, you smells odors when pressure is in diminution. OK. The site was plagued of good items, bronze, copper, stirrups cover with silver, buttons, thousands and thousands good items. The many small flames he saw are in concordance with all these old items or not? Who knows?

[Seden]

I baited you when I wrote that sentence you quoted I'll be honest.

Look, my point is and has been all along, any crackpot can make negative comments-that's easy. Junior High School kids do it the best.
What lacks integrity is the person making the negative comments not actually building the circuit and testing for themselves thoroughly. In industry it's called doing "due diligence", THEN and only THEN do you have the talking rights and not just being a naysayer which is meaningless unless you've had the education and experience of someone like Carl.

Of all the people who contribute to this forum, Esteban appears to hold the record for building and testing circuits(complete with photos and schematics of his work). He may not show us ALL of his work and why should he? The mans worked for something like 30 years exploring various theories,why should he just hand them to us on a plate especially if people are just going to ridicule him?

So let's get back to the Nanotech website aricle I posted,what strikes you as unscientific about it? Give me your scientific thoughts on lasing gold Theseus, Fred and Qiaozhi.

Randy

[Fred]

There is a wealth of folklore built up around buried gold and lost treasure and mines. Gold is inert; it does not have any kind of reaction with soil or gases, or anything like that,
Being inert doesn´t mean much, something inert in a "non-inert " medium still constitues an anomaly :)
... He may not show us ALL of his work and why should he? The mans worked for something like 30 years exploring various theories,why should he just hand them to us on a plate especially if people are just going to ridicule him?


Precisely because guys in their armchairs are ALSO necessary to devellop a project.No one has all the ideas and knowledge, so (IMO) Esteban posts some information (the less possible, not on a plate) to allow the willing ones to build it or think about it and eventually share what the know or have learnt.


About IR i can´t see how ,even if IR was emitted by gold excited by a laser that would go 50cm deep,could retransmit it again through earth.
But it is easy to try, there is plenty of cheap IR sensitive surveillance cameras to make this test.
I have a good one specially sensitive to IR and very low illumination and a WW2 glass IR filter,i want to try to see through clothes,never tried yet
:p :lol:

[Seden]

Fred,

Yeah the depth is not important per se for locating a placer gold deposit, so just illuminating the surface is sufficient. I've got an 808nm laser coming so will see if it works for regular placer gold with it's impurities.

Randy

[Theseus]

I baited you when I wrote that sentence you quoted I'll be honest.
Randy


Randy, if you've got time to make postings in an antagonistic manner, just to see what you can stir up; then I think you succeeded. You also succeeded in telling me (and others) that you aren't that serious about investigating the fringe technology you quoted.

Incidentally, you are sadly off base (and mistaken) if you think those who make comments about your fringe technology, must first physically build examples of the junk before passing judgment on it. Some things are simply intuitively obvious to the most casual observers, merely as a result of having prior knowledge and experience. To think otherwise, is akin to saying LRL/MFD contraptions are part of rational science and physics and no one should think otherwise until they've physically built one and learned firsthand that it is a total hoax. That would be lunatic thinking.

If you like playing with fringe technology (and other things that go bump in the night), by all means have at it. And, if you like introducing your fringe technology into an "open forum", feel free to do so and understand that you may not get 100% agreement with your ideas.

Of course if you introduced the idea strictly to see if you could stir up the natives.... I think the term for such activity is "troll". :D

[Seden]

What part of the article from Nanotechweb is Fringe Science? From your reply I don't think you even took the time to read it or you wouldn't be making such a comment. "Chemists and physicists at Humboldt University and Free University of Berlin could show that gold nanoparticles exhibit a bright luminescence with multiphoton near-infrared excitation".
You're insulting these Scientists. When you make statements like that without proof to back it up, people reading this thread will be on the floor laughing at you,is that what you want?

I didn't start this thread to have anything to do with debate, I just wanted to bring this information to the attention of the Forum hoping to have technical input.

Randy

[Qiaozhi]

What part of the article from Nanotechweb is Fringe Science? From your reply I don't think you even took the time to read it or you wouldn't be making such a comment. "Chemists and physicists at Humboldt University and Free University of Berlin could show that gold nanoparticles exhibit a bright luminescence with multiphoton near-infrared excitation".
You're insulting these Scientists. When you make statements like that without proof to back it up, people reading this thread will be on the floor laughing at you,is that what you want?

I didn't start this thread to have anything to do with debate, I just wanted to bring this information to the attention of the Forum hoping to have technical input.

Randy


You are taking the article completely out of context.

The article states:
"...monodispersed gold nanoparticles can be embedded and stabilized in 350 nm thin silicate-titanate films prepared by a sol-gel spin-coating technique and subsequent annealing at 300 °C or, alternatively, near-infrared (NIR) femtosecond laser irradiation."

This is a laboratory process that shows some potential for biological imaging using NIR and spectroscopy. It has no possible application for treasure hunting. Unless you want to spend the next million years or so meticulously sifting nano-meter by nano-meter through minute soil samples looking for gold nanoparticles.

In addition, the process relies on Raman scattering which, unlike flourescence, is not a resonant effect. This conflicts with the LRL pseudo-science that gold, silver, etc., can be detected by using specific resonant frequencies.

Perhaps you should contact Prof Klaus Rademann and put forward your theory, then we can watch while he rolls around "on the floor laughing at you, is that what you want?". :shrug:

[Theseus]

I didn't start this thread to have anything to do with debate, I just wanted to bring this information to the attention of the Forum hoping to have technical input.

Randy



And technical input is what you got, from some of us here. Just because your "comprehension and acceptance filter" was set too high to recognize it as such, is not at all the fault of the contributors.

As Qiaozhi has correctly stated, you are taking the article out of context and you are attempting to find a fringe application where NONE was intended by the original author.

I'm the one that is amused (at you), because I see the similarities to a very old attempt that has been promoted many times on forums of this subject matter. That is... Credibility for the LRL/MFD sham is often promoted by saying it is related to (and works just like) Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imaging (NMRI) or perhaps Electromagnetic Dispersion Spectroscopy (EDS).

Nothing could be more wrong than implying such an association, when clearly no such association exists.

If the shoe fits; wear it. ;)

[J_Player]

Perhaps there is a way...

This seems like a stretch of the imagination to me, but who knows? Esteban reports stories of a man seeing light in the night.

From what scientists and researchers have discovered, buried gold eventually corrodes, leaving a trail of ions that travel upwards in a column toward the surface of the soil. During the last 10-30cm, the ions combine to become bound with the constituents of the soil, and are no longer ions. For gold, the most abundent soil constituent which it can combine with is itself. This means that unless there is some other unlikely element such as tellurium which can form gold telluride, the gold will precipitate a small particle of gold, which may eventually grow into a lattice that forms a microparticle, or even a visible particle. Somewhere along this journey, the precipitating gold will be in the nano-sized particle range. before it reaches this size, it will not have the properties of luminessence. And after it grows bigger, it will also lose the luminessence properties that were found in the laboratory. These bound micro gold particles that reach the surface are eventually moved away from the location of the treasure by means of erosion and natural forces. But they are replenished as long as there is a trail of ions rising from the buried metal.

So where does this leave us? We are looking for a place at the surface where there is a concentration of nano-sized gold particles in enough abundance to show a visible light. This does not seem too likely to me. What about the specific frequency of laser light needed to excite the gold before it will show luminessence? Is it theoretically possible? According to Esteban, it has been observed by someone who told him he saw it.

Best wishes,
J_P

[homefire]

It's know that gold is a good reflector of IR radiation.

That is why they coat the space helmets visor with gold.

Why not just try the camera with a normal IR source.

See if you can pick out Hot Spots in a gravel bare.

A plane old Car head lamp works most well as a IR source.

If you hit them with just enough voltage to see a Red Visible glow on the Filament, You have a kick butt IR source.

I had a cheapo Russian IR Vision set I could see a hundred yard with that set up.

[Esteban]

"High purity gold reflects infrared (heat) energy almost completely, making it ideal for heat and radiation reflection. "

http://gold.yabz.com/facts.htm

In the same way, gold emits is own IR. So, to use IR for detect gold at distance is not a mistery... :shrug: Maybe is better IR laser.

[Seden]

The quote done by Qiaozhi does indeed have to do with a couple methods of annealing the gold but that's not all the article puts forward. The point of the article is the discovery that gold does indeed have a photoluminescence propensity hence:
"Excitation of films with the 795 nm fundamental of a Ti:sapphire femtosecond laser produces a strong white luminescence. The analysis of the laser power dependence indicates that the gold nanoparticle emission is induced by the absorption of three NIR laser photons."
and yes here:
"Because of the transparency and reduced cell damage to human and animal tissues in the NIR spectral range, the multiphoton-induced photoluminescence of gold nanoparticles could become a powerful alternative to organic and semiconducting fluorophores in biological imaging."

Ok. "Mutiphoton-Induced Photoluminescence of gold" so it's not just another way to anneal the gold using IR as Qiaozhi quoted from the article.

Theseus, I had to virtually squeeze your head to get you to give me a technical answer even if it was just a quote from Qiaozhi. That's all I was asking as I don't claim to know it all or am I selling something. This post is about sharing information if someone has had practical experience or had studied Spectroscopy. See,that wasn't so painful was it? The dance has just begun between us so let's enjoy it shall we?;)

Ya'll have a nice day sir,

Randy

[Theseus]

The dance has just begun between us so let's enjoy it shall we?;)

Ya'll have a nice day sir,

Randy

I'm afraid my card is all filled up. Guess you'll need to find another partner. :razz:

[J_Player]

Now that we solved the problem of figuring out that Mutiphoton-Induced Photoluminescence is possible on nano-particles of gold, we have three hurdles to pass before we can make a reasonable scientific connection to the dirt glowing above buried gold.

1. The luminescence was induced by a 795 nm Ti:sapphire femtosecond laser. ie: the gold did not glow on its own, the glowing was induced by a special laser.

2. This glowing was observed on nano-particles within a specific range. Within the luminescent range nano-sized particles, the frequency must be adjusted to cause the luminescencee. But when the gold particle size is outside the luminescent range, it is no longer luminescent. ie: only certain size particle will glow when stimulated by a laser.

3. The correct frequency laser and the correct size nano-particles must be present at the location of a long-time buried gold object. if the correct laser and gold nano-particles are not there, then there will be no glowing.

This means we would go treasure hunting with the correct frequency femtosecond laser. Let's assume we have a portable 795 nm Ti:sapphire femtosecond laser like the one that worked in the laboratory. And we connect it to a 50% duty cycle 1khz supply, and we pulse it on when we want to scan a location to see if there are any glowing spots in the dirt. (It seems like this would be best done at night).

Suppose we go searching in an old field that was once a park. And suppose we find several spots that show a visible glow when we pulse the IR laser on them. So we start digging, and find several gold objects. This would prove that there are nano-particles of gold in the soil in enough abundance to show visible luminescence when the ground was pulsed with a 795 nm Ti:sapphire femtosecond laser. So what's the problem with that?
Nothing.... If the ground glows when you pulse the laser at it.

But what if the ground does not glow?
I am sure many will say the reason is because there is no gold buried there.
But suppose you find the ground does not glow over an area that has placer gold two feet below. And you confirm this by digging the gold.
Why didn't the experiment work?

An answer that comes to mind is the known ions of gold that have been studied above long-time buried gold are found in quantities of parts per billion. Sometimes as much as 10 parts per billion for large amounts of gold that have been buried a very long time, such as are found at mines. Among the gold particles that form from ions in the parts per billion range, Is it possible that only a small percentage of them are the suitable nano-particle size to have luminescence properties when zapped by the correct laser? Would it be in the parts per trillion range?

Perhaps there is just not enough of these nano-particles above a treasure to glow.

But then, If people are seeing the ground glow without even induciing the luminescence, maybe something else is causing the ground to glow.

Best wishes,
J_P

[homefire]

Why do you think you have to use LASER?

I have to old style Single Heterojunction GaAs LD-60's made by LASER DIODE here.

They pump out 905nm at a Watt or Two if set up right.

Lazer would only work if you Scanned with it, and got a reflection you think was usable.

These diodes are from the 90's and little info available on them.

These are Stud type Diodes and can HURT you!

25 Watt Peak Power out Put.

3 volts and up to 3o amps modulated Drive current.

[Seden]

Yes that is a problem but hey, if the 808nm laser just happens to work for the particular thickness and makeup of the placer gold that would be great (luck of the draw). If not it was a fun experiment and at this point I don't have the funds to buy a tunable laser so I've got another laser idea that's more likely to work.

Once I get the circuit built and tested the theory, I will post the schematic for others to try assuming of course it works! But at this point will keep the idea to myself till then.

With the economy the way it is,one must choose carefully the things to experiment on! So far with the cost of the IR lowpass filter + Laser I think I'm at $60.

J_P, remember the post about Dr. Paul Dobler whereby he found the radiation of gold to be at 1.2mm or 249GHZ? On nanotechweb there was an article about how they discovered that gold ABSORBS radiation in and around that frequency range. To me I don't care if it radiates or absorbs as long as there is a measurable anomaly,but interesting huh? See here:
http://nanotechweb.org/cws/article/tech/35464

In particular this:Andreas Thoman and colleagues at the University of Freiburg have shown that nanostructured gold can almost entirely suppress reflections at the substrate-to-air interface over frequencies ranging from 200 GHz to 2.2 THz in the far infrared. Would this work out in the field, good question,but good to note.

Randy

[Seden]

We were both typing at the same time,but if I can get by without a laser that would be MUCH cheaper and thanks, I will try your ideas.

Randy

[homefire]

Ha! I have a $12.00 philips web cam that is hot on IR.

I'm going to mess with it when it gets dark tonight.

I have some panned gold and want to see what it does.

I'm going to use my TV remote as a IR source.

[homefire]

I checked out the IR remote control. Ceepo Camera see's the IR but does not Reflect off the 14K ring.

Remote I think runs in the 700u wave area?

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo160/berquistj/th_IRTEST.jpg (http://s371.photobucket.com/albums/oo160/berquistj/?action=view&current=IRTEST.flv)

[Seden]

Homefire,

Very good on having some panned gold around, so you are a gold prospector as I am. I don't know if you get the California Mining Journal but
there was an excellent article called "Succeeding with Infrared Photography" by Eugene J. Erdos (of Infrared Photogeological Services) in the April 1990 California Mining Journal that's a darn good read. In it the author quotes from Kodak's "Applied Infrared Photography",M28,P.3 1981 where it says "infrared luminescence is caused by illuminating the object with relatively long wave-length radiation(visible blue or green) which the object re-emits at longer wavelengths (infrared radiation). Talks about "Differentiated infrared photography" and "This type of differentiated IR photography will show the orebody under the overburden, and will omit surface features totally, showing only the infrared ore zone as if it were bare". The closing paragraph of the article says that infrared only photography produces a red and black picture, infrared and non-infrared. Says this is between 700-900nm. "Within these wavelengths, the evidence suggests that one particular band is most responsible for the infrared radiation emanating form ore deposits".

Blue-Green light is easy to come by so will give this a try.

Randy

[homefire]

I go panning.

Nugget shooting.

Just messing around.

IR is cool to see land features you just don't see with your eyes!

You can see paths that just don't seem to be there.

You can see Depressions that don't seem to be there!

I think with a good Thermal Camera you could see heat variants just below the surface that could help you out.

I had a Cheap Russian IR scope that was fun to play with. Some one Snatched it!:angry:

With a old head lamp just glowing orange/red you could see every thing.

I do think Gold would reflect the IR better then any back ground materials and produce a Glow! The Remote control just does not have enough Cajonies! :lol:

[J_Player]

Lazer would only work if you Scanned with it, and got a reflection you think was usable.
The article Seden referenced does not have anything to do with the reflective properties of gold. The IR laser light is not reflected from nano-particles of gold. The nano-particles are stimulated by the IR laser light, and there is a resultant emission of visible light, due to the stimulus of the photons. No reflected IR is mentioned in the discoveries in that article. Thus, we are not looking for reflected IR light. We are looking for gold nano-particles glowing visibly when they are pulsed with an IR laser of the correct freauency for the thickness of gold nano-particles.

The other idea about using an IR imaging method to look at parts of the ground that are glowing with IR without a laser is approached differently. You don't need a laser, only an IR imaging method. The least expensive and highest quality method I have seen is to convert an old digital camera to an IR camera. This costs nothing except the price of an old IR camera. 1MP camera will do fine. You can get these used for under $30. Then remove the IR filter from the image sensor and replace it with a piece of exposed 35mm color negative film. You now have an IR camera that allows you to see an image wherever it is pointed. But it is showing IR, not visible light. Pretty nice for about $30, eh?

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

replace it with a piece of exposed 35mm color negative film.

J_P

35mm color negative film exposed on what?

On sunlight?

On coulored light? On which spectrum of light?

thanks

[J_Player]

35mm color negative film exposed on what?

On sunlight?

On coulored light? On which spectrum of light?

thanksThe piece of film is not actually exposed. It is from the end of a roll of exposed film. You are looking for a piece of film from the end of a roll of developed film -- the end where it is opaque because no photo was taken on the end of the roll. This will act as a visible light filter. See this article for details on how to convert a digital camera into an IR digital camera: http://geektechnique.org/index.php?id=254

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Just as you predicted this thread started going south with the usual crowd. Esteban thank you for sharing that information as you are one of the very few on Geotech that actually designs and builds things where others in their arm chairs just tap away on the keyboard with sarcastic comments.

Gentlemen,what do you think about the article I posted at the start of this thread from Nanotech.org? Did you READ it? Yes,no maybe,gonna do it?

Nice part about it is it's pure science. I really want your input that's why I posted it.

Randy


Hi Randy,
sarcastic comments are due to the lack of proofs or facts about LRL-pretenders... no real project, no real schematic (or do you count the stamp-sized ones as good?), no real design, nothing of nothing apart words, claims and pictures of paint rollers and the like... so, better stay on the arm chairs than buy that stuff for the pleasure of discovering that they don't work a c.r.a.p.

About the article... hmmmm.... gold films , means you need particular kind of particles e.g. particles size , thickness I think... so proves nothing... frequency of gold ? But sure quantum physics explained how atoms could go in excited states and then return back to equilibrium releasing e.g. light photons... nothing new I say.

But now follow my thought: think at chromium element... ok... all we have chromium stuff... some more than others (like a big Harley-Davidson bike parked near home...) but what you see ??? red flashes ???

I mean... to make something quantum-physics you need a particular setup... like trapping as doping agent some chromium atoms in a synt ruby matrix of Al2O3... that's why THIS same chromium atoms give the flashes and the bike not! :lol:

Of course, you need mirrors, brewster windows, xenon-hi-speed-lamps, infinite-index-reflectors etc etc etc but concept is that if your chromium is on the harley it will not shine red! :D

Or not ?

So... what we are talking about here ? Gold films ? And where are gold-films in the soil near an old time buried target ? That's the point... it's a meaningless reference to our topic of remote sensing I think...
also cause I dubt people of South America, proud owners of (claimed by them) working LRLs have really a femtosecond-pulsed-laser module on their wood-boxes... but maybe some PVC pipe filled with air and farts... :lol:

About the IR pictures.... well... if it will be so easy I think LRL-people had already made some IR-camera or modified something, bought some airport surplus stuff... e.g. the kind that by IR measure body temperature etc but I see nothing about... I think the thermal way is full of c.r.a.p. too cause there were big claims about but no facts, no proofs, no reliable explaination and , of course, weren't any attepts of partecipate to the LRL challenge...

Or not ? Maybe I miss something ? ;)

So, will stay on my arm chair and hit the keyboard till someone of these genius will show to the world that electronic LRL is reality!

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Randy, thanks. Is more easy create sarcastic comments.

Is far more easy filling a PVC tube of digested air...

[Max]

"High purity gold reflects infrared (heat) energy almost completely, making it ideal for heat and radiation reflection. "

http://gold.yabz.com/facts.htm

In the same way, gold emits is own IR. So, to use IR for detect gold at distance is not a mistery... :shrug: Maybe is better IR laser.

Thin layers and colloidal dispersions ... but maybe for you gold is gold... and so chromium is chromium and harley-davidson bikes shine red flashes just for you! :lol:

[Max]

Yes that is a problem but hey, if the 808nm laser just happens to work for the particular thickness and makeup of the placer gold that would be great (luck of the draw). If not it was a fun experiment and at this point I don't have the funds to buy a tunable laser so I've got another laser idea that's more likely to work.

Once I get the circuit built and tested the theory, I will post the schematic for others to try assuming of course it works! But at this point will keep the idea to myself till then.

With the economy the way it is,one must choose carefully the things to experiment on! So far with the cost of the IR lowpass filter + Laser I think I'm at $60.

J_P, remember the post about Dr. Paul Dobler whereby he found the radiation of gold to be at 1.2mm or 249GHZ? On nanotechweb there was an article about how they discovered that gold ABSORBS radiation in and around that frequency range. To me I don't care if it radiates or absorbs as long as there is a measurable anomaly,but interesting huh? See here:
http://nanotechweb.org/cws/article/tech/35464

In particular this:Andreas Thoman and colleagues at the University of Freiburg have shown that nanostructured gold can almost entirely suppress reflections at the substrate-to-air interface over frequencies ranging from 200 GHz to 2.2 THz in the far infrared. Would this work out in the field, good question,but good to note.

Randy

yes, GOLD NANOSTRUCTURES! ... what we haven't in real soil... real soil is a mess of stuff of a number of different elements... for me is J.A.A.F.P. just-another-already-failed project...:rolleyes:

But will be nice if will find me wrong on that... maybe I'm wrong...

Kind regards,
Max

[Jim]

The book is entitled "Discovering Treasure Auras in the Digital Age by David Villanueva" which will set you back $19 to download,but a good read and interesting.

Randy



Randy...as I stated on that other website, I also own that book. In my opinion, it is worthless for the purpose of treasure hunting.

The book offers no validation from the scientific community, and its writing style is very amateurish.

Akin to something written by Dell Winders, the author boasts and brags about other successful means of treasure hunting. Such as dowsing, using Long Range Locators and Polaroid film. He also touches on seeing lights in the sky to find gold.

Two thumbs down for the realist or rational observer, but great for those sucked into conspiracy theories for finding big treasures.

[Seden]

Jim,

Since I actually got the steep skirted IR filter and tried it I now agree with you and Max/Robert (post above yours).

And as I stated on the other forum if it works fine (same with the upcoming 808nm laser for the lasing experiment) and hey I'm out a total of $60 which for 2 experiments isn't bad.
I do have an article from the California Mining Journal that you saw posted here and the other forum where IR between 700-900nm is valuable for Geological Remote Sensing which has been done for decades now so will invest in 3 separate bandpass filters for each (700nm,800nm+900nm)but for treasure hunting of NO value so far as I can tell until proven by yours truly. I am a part time gold placer miner and prospector so the above article will be yet another tool in my Geological tool chest.
Sorry I couldn't help you treasure hunters,

Randy

[J_Player]

I do have an article from the California Mining Journal that you saw posted here and the other forum where IR between 700-900nm is valuable for Geological Remote Sensing which has been done for decades now so will invest in 3 separate bandpass filters for each (700nm,800nm+900nm)but for treasure hunting of NO value so far as I can tell until proven by yours truly. I am a part time gold placer miner and prospector so the above article will be yet another tool in my Geological tool chestHi Randy,
If lasers like yours have been used for decades in Geological remote sensing, then is seems you have a valuable laser for experimenting with. Aside from geological testing, there may be some application in experimenting with remote sensing of treasures. The time when buried treasure takes on the attributes of some geological conditions is when it resembles placer gold. ie: it has been buried for a long time. In this condition, you can expect the soil around where the treasure is buried is not the same as the surrounding soil. The difference may be small and hard to detect, but we have read reports that others have done it. Maybe by using your laser, you will have better results that people who used IR diodes.

Best wishes,
J_P

[ALEX.356]

Dear friend Jim,
re. David's Villanueva book , it happened to read it a month ago.
I believe it is premature to judge against it before performing the tests as described in the book.
I am certain nobody took the trouble to replicate these tests as detailed by David.
I mean by the same camera, same filters, same photoshop, with serious amounts of gold and silver buried into the soil for a long time, at least for a month, not single coins, not hidden in holes and Zampetas guarding the treasure a la Django [my friend this Zampetas of yours is already world-famous... ]
No need to open any camera and scratch the IR factory filter .
Read the book and go by the book.
Then if there are no results then we have the right of criticism.
Until proven liar we have to respect and consider what the author asserts.
wish you success,
Alex 356

[Qiaozhi]

Dear friend Jim,
re. David's Villanueva book , it happened to read it a month ago.
I believe it is premature to judge against it before performing the tests as described in the book.
I am certain nobody took the trouble to replicate these tests as detailed by David.
I mean by the same camera, same filters, same photoshop, with serious amounts of gold and silver buried into the soil for a long time, at least for a month, not single coins, not hidden in holes and Zampetas guarding the treasure a la Django [my friend this Zampetas of yours is already world-famous... ]
No need to open any camera and scratch the IR factory filter .
Read the book and go by the book.
Then if there are no results then we have the right of criticism.
Until proven liar we have to respect and consider what the author asserts.
wish you success,
Alex 356
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

It is up to the person presenting the "theory" to prove that it is correct, not the other way round. Otherwise I could just as easily claim that there is a silver tea tray in orbit around the Earth, and then challenge you to prove me wrong! :lol:

[Jim]

Randy...thanks for the cordial reply.

I think David Villanueva accomplished what he set out to do. He got our hard earned money, and we got nothing in return but a fist full of hooha, gibberish and wish science.

[Jim]

Read the book and go by the book.
Then if there are no results then we have the right of criticism.
Until proven liar we have to respect and consider what the author asserts.



Greetings...others and I have "gone by the book" and have not been able to duplicate the results promised by the author. Old buried gold is not a requirement, as the author states his method works on freshly buried gold as well. The author also claims his method works on other buried materials. This is also a false claim.

The method does not work...period. Consider this a "proven liar" notification, if you will.

[Theseus]

Greetings...others and I have "gone by the book" and have not been able to duplicate the results promised by the author. Old buried gold is not a requirement, as the author states his method works on freshly buried gold as well. The author also claims his method works on other buried materials. This is also a false claim.

The method does not work...period. Consider this a "proven liar" notification, if you will.

I have not read the book (nor will I waste my time), but I will support your notification based on previous dealings I've had with Mr. David Villanueva. Categorically, he is known for making "lots" of wild unsupported claims especially on the topic of dowsing and related subjects. I'm not at all surprised that you and others were unable to duplicate his claims made in the subject book. :frown:

[Max]

Dear friend Jim,
re. David's Villanueva book , it happened to read it a month ago.
I believe it is premature to judge against it before performing the tests as described in the book.
I am certain nobody took the trouble to replicate these tests as detailed by David.
I mean by the same camera, same filters, same photoshop, with serious amounts of gold and silver buried into the soil for a long time, at least for a month, not single coins, not hidden in holes and Zampetas guarding the treasure a la Django [my friend this Zampetas of yours is already world-famous... ]
No need to open any camera and scratch the IR factory filter .
Read the book and go by the book.
Then if there are no results then we have the right of criticism.
Until proven liar we have to respect and consider what the author asserts.
wish you success,
Alex 356

"Until proven liar we have to respect and consider what the author asserts."

Hi,
so, following that logic... you said that if someone wrote e.g. that the aliens bring him up their startship and played poker games with him just for the fun of earning some easy terrestrial money... hmmmmm
must respect the author cause... till not proven a liar... :lol:

What's that ?

If someone say that you're the 1,000,000,000 visitor of a website and won a fantastic lamborghini car , you click then, uh ? :razz:

There are things that are obvious contraptions... obsvious scams... obvious (and mostly ridiculos) fake claims about LRLs and LRL "methods" ...
no need of a wagon of scientist to have proofs that stuff is a big pile of c.r.a.p. :rolleyes:

Anyone can smell BS ! :D But people how buy that stuff or belive in such impossible-to-be-true claims... are scam-vulnerable... the sellers/authors use that weakness of scientific background and old-good-simple-common-sense to drive them to buy products or books.

Happens with aliens... happens with DaVinci-code things and other idiotic fictions... and happens the same with LRL-fairy-tales!

Just... people who read and belive in Harry Potter magic powers are 5-7 years old... then most of them simply grow and understand the only magic in Harry Potter story is the mountain of pounds J.K.Rowling earned by that pile of "books" and character rights.

Other , instead, remains like childrens and still belive in Santa Claus and Harry Potter... along with Hung's modified RT capable of finding a coin at 1mile in total , 100% foggy day! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Jim]

I'm clicking on the car...but, I can't seem to win it! :::mumbles:::

[Qiaozhi]

I'm clicking on the car...but, I can't seem to win it! :::mumbles:::
Too late!
I clicked on it first ... bbrrrrm! :cool:

[Jim]

D'oh

[hung]

HOMEFIRE:
Don't use unexposed films. Expose the film first (in front of the puzzeld sales girl at the photo store) and tell her to do the regular C41 processing.
Then use it 1, 2 or 3 layers of it in front of the lens of a SLR camera. A CCD will work but not as good. You will have to enhance the picture in a good photoshop type program to see the auras. It will show clearly in the pics.

Professional IR band pass filters are better but you have to try the wavelength that works better for your case.

It's been working for me for quite some time now.
Good luck.

[Theseus]

HOMEFIRE:

It's been working for me for quite some time now.
Good luck.

Sure it has.

I just love it when you debunker that way. :razz:

[Qiaozhi]

HOMEFIRE:
Don't use unexposed films. Expose the film first (in front of the puzzeld sales girl at the photo store) and tell her to do the regular C41 processing.
Then use it 1, 2 or 3 layers of it in front of the lens of a SLR camera. A CCD will work but not as good. You will have to enhance the picture in a good photoshop type program to see the auras. It will show clearly in the pics.

Professional IR band pass filters are better but you have to try the wavelength that works better for your case.

It's been working for me for quite some time now.
Good luck.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
What Poppycock!

Of course it's working for you, along with a cheap calculator glued to a plastic box and mounted on a swivel handle.

Earth to Hung! Time to wake up and face the real world. :eek:

What about the debunkering? Or do I need to use a modified digital camera to see that as well? :razz:

[homefire]

HOMEFIRE:
Don't use unexposed films. Expose the film first (in front of the puzzeld sales girl at the photo store) and tell her to do the regular C41 processing.
Then use it 1, 2 or 3 layers of it in front of the lens of a SLR camera. A CCD will work but not as good. You will have to enhance the picture in a good photoshop type program to see the auras. It will show clearly in the pics.

Professional IR band pass filters are better but you have to try the wavelength that works better for your case.

It's been working for me for quite some time now.
Good luck.

My $12.00 Web cam had no filter.

I was just trying to see if the gold would reflect the IR....

I don't know about the Auras Thing! :lol:

[Max]

HOMEFIRE:
Don't use unexposed films. Expose the film first (in front of the puzzeld sales girl at the photo store) and tell her to do the regular C41 processing.
Then use it 1, 2 or 3 layers of it in front of the lens of a SLR camera. A CCD will work but not as good. You will have to enhance the picture in a good photoshop type program to see the auras. It will show clearly in the pics.

Professional IR band pass filters are better but you have to try the wavelength that works better for your case.

It's been working for me for quite some time now.
Good luck.

The AURA, yes... and I'm mickey mouse! :lol:

What the hell you drink there... ???

Caipirinha , uh ? :D

Ok... try this... cachaca, sugar, lime, ice cubes... and some burnt transistors ! Maybe will work. :razz:

Still the same... always big piles from there... mr. Hung

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

The AURA, yes... and I'm mickey mouse! :lol:

What the hell you drink there... ???

Caipirinha , uh ? :D

Ok... try this... cachaca, sugar, lime, ice cubes... and some burnt transistors ! Maybe will work. :razz:

Still the same... always big piles from there... mr. Hung

Kind regards,
Max
According to Myron Evans, he's Dr. Hung! :lol:

[Max]

According to Myron Evans, he's Dr. Hung! :lol:

Oh, wow.... I'm astonished now! :lol:

Dr. Hung looks very professional... and remember me a picture... or LRL-maniacs there... doctor included.

Here in the picture I think is Dr. Hung with members of his team... and , of course, their new LRL prototype... at bottom. :rolleyes:

You have to guess who is Dr. Hung... instead! :D

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

Hi Max,
The correct answer is: Dr Hung is not there, this is only his team.Right?

[Fred]

Expose the film first (in front of the puzzeld sales girl at the photo store) and tell her to do the regular C41 processing.
Is this the only thing you can expose to amazine girls?

Then use it 1, 2 or 3 layers of it in front of the lens of a SLR camera. A CCD will work but not as good. You will have to enhance the picture in a good photoshop type program to see the auras. It will show clearly in the pics.
...it's been working for me for quite some time now.
what do you mean by "working"? you have so many stuff detecting treasures km away, why do you need that ?
Hung, what do you mean by "debunkering" ? You know, you have this in your signature and nobody knows what it means ...:???:

[hung]

Hung, what do you mean by "debunkering" ? You know, you have this in your signature and nobody knows what it means ...:???:
Maybe you don't.
But MJ 12 knows...:lol:

[Fred]

Maybe you don't.
But MJ 12 knows...:lol:
But do you feel dispensed to explain?

[Max]

But do you feel dispensed to explain?

He's Dr. Hung! :nono:

He has no time to explain his genius to us! :lol:

New DaVinci... we can explain flying-dogs and new 1yotta-kms detection range for LRLs! :razz:

Kind regards,
Max