Two ultrasonic articles

[Esteban]

The both circuits are of 1963 and 1964, transistorized.

[Esteban]

Part of the circuit. Regarding rights, can't publish all it!

[Fred]

Part of the circuit. Regarding rights, can't publish all it!
:lol:
Esteban, what is the % can you publish without infringing rights ? They are from ´63 !
Anyway, did you notice the same effect with this than with the wideband receiver and ferrite receiver?

[Esteban]

Fred

Maybe you're right, maybe not. This page has authorization. You can found here many articles, include the both.

http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Popular_Electronics.htm

Regards

Esteban

[Esteban]

Here you can found another constructional article. With some modifications can work for capture some "phenomenon".

www.arrl.org/qst/2006/04/hanson.pdf (http://www.arrl.org/qst/2006/04/hanson.pdf)

[Geo]

Esteban, thanks:)

[Max]

Part of the circuit. Regarding rights, can't publish all it!

Hi,
I think nobody will complain anything about that articles... you're becoming too politically correct ! :lol:

Following you're new addiction to copyright rights we could also close the forum now... no more schematics... no more cloned devices! :razz:

All manifacturers will be happy from now on... no more reverse engineering of their products! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Here you can found another constructional article. With some modifications can work for capture some "phenomenon".

www.arrl.org/qst/2006/04/hanson.pdf (http://www.arrl.org/qst/2006/04/hanson.pdf)

Hi,
I read the document... looks interesting for to make an arcing detector... but how the hell this will pick up some treasure signal ??? :lol:

I mean, it's a passive ultrasonic receiver.... that mix the signal from the transducer to a fixed one in the 38-40Khz range... thus giving some etherodyne effect... thus a beating at e.g. 1Khz or less you can hear in headphones.

Now... though this could be useful if wanna listen for BATS, how it's supposed to works as an LRL !?

I do not understand ! Still detecting something but without a "reason".:rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Hi,
I read the document... looks interesting for to make an arcing detector... but how the hell this will pick up some treasure signal ??? :lol:

I mean, it's a passive ultrasonic receiver.... that mix the signal from the transducer to a fixed one in the 38-40Khz range... thus giving some etherodyne effect... thus a beating at e.g. 1Khz or less you can hear in headphones.

Now... though this could be useful if wanna listen for BATS, how it's supposed to works as an LRL !?

I do not understand ! Still detecting something but without a "reason".:rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

Max

You can use ideas here, not for to detect the arcing. :lol:

Regards

Esteban

[Max]

Max

You can use ideas here, not for to detect the arcing. :lol:

Regards

Esteban

Hi,
uhm... I'm trying to figure out what do you mean about that "ideas".

Ok... the circuit/project you posted a link is an ultrasonic receiver, very directive also cause of mechanical contruction.

Then we need an ultrasonic emission , right ???

So, by logic the target MUST emit that ultrasonics waves or be excited to emit ultrasonic waves.

Now... I don't know of any e.g. gold coin emitting ultrasounds... by itself! :lol:

So , always by logic only, you're saying that you excite the target , somehow... to e.g. emit or reflect some ultrasonics wave.

Now... always following that logic there are two main streams that could fit your assumption:

1. you excite the target with ultrasonic waves it will reflect back maybe modified in e.g. frequency or similar stuff

2. you excite the target with something that aren't ultrasonic waves... so who knows what ? maybe RF or something else... then you get BACK ultrasonic waves.

So... what do you like ? 1 or 2 ?:rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

With my skeptical hat on ... I would suggest (with the ultrasonic circuit tuned close to instability) it would be possible to convince yourself, that you were really detecting a signal from a remote target. When in fact it was really scattering of the transmitted pulse.
Such a device would be less convincing than the pistol detector.

[Fred]

Based on what has been said here, i present i new LRL diagram.I am curious to know how it performs:
The 10k resistor in the lower left must be parapendicular to the target.;)

[Max]

Hi,
uhm... I'm trying to figure out what do you mean about that "ideas".

Ok... the circuit/project you posted a link is an ultrasonic receiver, very directive also cause of mechanical contruction.

Then we need an ultrasonic emission , right ???

So, by logic the target MUST emit that ultrasonics waves or be excited to emit ultrasonic waves.

Now... I don't know of any e.g. gold coin emitting ultrasounds... by itself! :lol:

So , always by logic only, you're saying that you excite the target , somehow... to e.g. emit or reflect some ultrasonics wave.

Now... always following that logic there are two main streams that could fit your assumption:

1. you excite the target with ultrasonic waves it will reflect back maybe modified in e.g. frequency or similar stuff

2. you excite the target with something that aren't ultrasonic waves... so who knows what ? maybe RF or something else... then you get BACK ultrasonic waves.

So... what do you like ? 1 or 2 ?:rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

Still I'm awaiting for an answer...:lol:

[J_Player]

Still I'm awaiting for an answer...:lol:Perhaps if you were to add a second ultrasonic transmitter to the circuit board with an intermediate frequency (slightly lower than the primary ultrasonic frequency), you could arrive at a BFO version of ultrasonics. By monitoring the difference signal, maybe you could locate treasure. I heard rumors this works for magnetic coils. why not for ultrasonic transducers? :rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Astrodetect]

Hello Esteban
When you say with some modifications, what modifications can we make to make it catch the phenomenon?

[Esteban]

Is the same as IR. The ray is used as a bridge, as an antenna, the phenomenon "travel" on it and arrive. There are small chages in frequence. The transmitter is the receiver also because catch the small alteration.

[Max]

Is the same as IR. The ray is used as a bridge, as an antenna, the phenomenon "travel" on it and arrive. There are small chages in frequence. The transmitter is the receiver also because catch the small alteration.

How can be that way ?

The IR led just emits IR light!

Then what ? The signal travels on IR light beam ??? :rolleyes:

That way it's impossible.

Or do you mean something different ?

Kind regards,
Max

[Carl-NC]

Somewhere I have an email from the final owner of Poptronix giving me permission to post complete articles from any of the old issues, which includes Popular Electronics. So post whatever you want.

- Carl

[Esteban]

How can be that way ?

The IR led just emits IR light!

Then what ? The signal travels on IR light beam ??? :rolleyes:

That way it's impossible.

Or do you mean something different ?

Kind regards,
Max

Don't wish repeat a think repeated 100 times! :razz:

[Fred]

Don't wish repeat a think repeated 100 times! :razz:
I think to remember you said the beam kind of ionized the air who allowed the HV to travel trhu it,right?
After all it´s all about the same idea, the burried "oxided" metal creates a deformation in the electric gradient, as does your IR .
I wonder how you PD reacts to a rod partially burried and sticking out about 50cm out of the ground ?

[Max]

I think to remember you said the beam kind of ionized the air who allowed the HV to travel trhu it,right?
After all it´s all about the same idea, the burried "oxided" metal creates a deformation in the electric gradient, as does your IR .
I wonder how you PD reacts to a rod partially burried and sticking out about 50cm out of the ground ?

Hi Fred,
yes... but to ionize free air you need more than an IR led! :razz:

I remember too that things Esteban wrote... but then no clue of how the hell the air is so different from here there in Paraguay! :lol:

Also... Paraguay climate is hot and humid... then static electricity is very hard to detect in such environment cause of leaks due to the water vapours there....;)

Uhm... I think the IR led can't do anything apart some science fiction... don't see a way how that stuff could give extended range of detection... for me it's pure speculation.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Don't wish repeat a think repeated 100 times! :razz:

You read Carl's post... now can post articles if you want... :D

But I know... are just about BAT detectors and the like...

Just to have "ideas"...

So... ideas to make a gold-sonar I think! :shocked:

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

I think to remember you said the beam kind of ionized the air who allowed the HV to travel trhu it,right?
After all it´s all about the same idea, the burried "oxided" metal creates a deformation in the electric gradient, as does your IR .
I wonder how you PD reacts to a rod partially burried and sticking out about 50cm out of the ground ?
I think the "idea" beyond this concept is that the IR beam is supposed to act like some sort of probe that establishes a "connection" (or signal line) to the target. Perhaps the PHENOMENON is somehow transported along the beam ... pseudo-scientifically speaking, of course. ;)

[Esteban]

I think the "idea" beyond this concept is that the IR beam is supposed to act like some sort of probe that establishes a "connection" (or signal line) to the target. Perhaps the PHENOMENON is somehow transported along the beam ... pseudo-scientifically speaking, of course. ;)

A beam of IR light –in this case modulated– is an antenna with the advantage free of interference as a metalic antenna. Here exist a tone in receiver. So, you can made with it the job.

The same with ultrasonic.

[Qiaozhi]

A beam of IR light –in this case modulated– is an antenna with the advantage free of interference as a metalic antenna. Here exist a tone in receiver. So, you can made with it the job.

The same with ultrasonic.
This explanation sounds similar to my previous suggestion. I called the beam a "probe", but you've called it an "antenna".

[Max]

A beam of IR light –in this case modulated– is an antenna with the advantage free of interference as a metalic antenna. Here exist a tone in receiver. So, you can made with it the job.

The same with ultrasonic.

Hi,
but... from when an IR light beam is an ANTENNA ??? :shocked:

An ANTENNA MADE OF PURE LIGHT, MAN !:razz:

I hope you mean here and not in some parallel universe! :lol:

Seems much of these concepts about LRL were developed as japanese cartoons of the 70's....:rolleyes:

I think I found the plan of such an LRL...

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Max

You don't learn nothing about admin rules about posting such figures.

The same occurs when you post clowns figures. And don't know why admins don't remove these figures. And ROberts' figures.

[Esteban]

Max, you need to made a few effort and type on the web the words infrared antenna. The light consist in photons and a train of photons is a beam. Each photon is a nanoantenna and a beam is a large antenna. This is the reason you can transmit voices in others via this beam. If you can transmit, you can receive.

[Max]

Max

You don't learn nothing about admin rules about posting such figures.

The same occurs when you post clowns figures. And don't know why admins don't remove these figures. And ROberts' figures.

Uhm... you're losing sense of humor I think...

Don't you like japanese cartoons ? :nono:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Uhm... you're losing sense of humor I think...

Don't you like japanese cartoons ? :nono:

Kind regards,
Max

I don't know why the most "sense of humor" is used on RS forum...

I think that such images don't contribute in it. And consume bytes.

Regards

[Max]

Max, you need to made a few effort and type on the web the words infrared antenna. The light consist in photons and a train of photons is a beam. Each photon is a nanoantenna and a beam is a large antenna. This is the reason you can transmit voices in others via this beam. If you can transmit, you can receive.

Hi,
sure... but aren't we talking of 62Khz signal there ?

So how the hell such short wavelenght thing will help you detect LF signals ????

Do not understand. Now you're talking about phonons ???

Isn't that a little presumptuous issue... when devices are nearly made of old parts and junk ? :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

I don't know why the most "sense of humor" is used on RS forum...

I think that such images don't contribute in it. And consume bytes.

Regards

:lol:

Ok... from now on... I will post just stamp-sized schematics and trashy-lrl pictures... to save bytes! :D

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

:lol:

Ok... from now on... I will post just stamp-sized schematics and trashy-lrl pictures... to save bytes! :D

Kind regards,
Max

Ok, continue posting it... you made a great work! Congrats!

[Max]

Ok, continue posting it... you made a great work! Congrats!


uhm... don't like polemics too ??? :shocked:

Ok... no cartoon , no polemics... seems you're not generalist... I hope you at least like sports! :D

Ok Estaban, coming back to the topic... the IR beam is an antenna and there's are phonons , right ?

Why the use of RF receiver then , like the passive ferrite ?

I mean, why don't use just an optical solution if so...?

And in the case of spontaneous potential why don't use just electrometer ?

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Hi,
sure... but aren't we talking of 62Khz signal there ?

So how the hell such short wavelenght thing will help you detect LF signals ????

Do not understand. Now you're talking about phonons ???

Isn't that a little presumptuous issue... when devices are nearly made of old parts and junk ? :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

For the same reason a IR very short wave beam can carry LF like voices, for example, why not for other purposes?


Regards

[Esteban]

uhm... don't like polemics too ??? :shocked:

Ok... no cartoon , no polemics... seems you're not generalist... I hope you at least like sports! :D

Ok Estaban, coming back to the topic... the IR beam is an antenna and there's are phonons , right ?

Why the use of RF receiver then , like the passive ferrite ?

I mean, why don't use just an optical solution if so...?

And in the case of spontaneous potential why don't use just electrometer ?

Kind regards,
Max

Any system you want works as LRL... the theme is: wich is the best. The great advantage with IR is the very precise detection.

Regards

Esteban

[ivconic]

I don't know why the most "sense of humor" is used on RS forum...

I think that such images don't contribute in it. And consume bytes.

Regards


"I don't know why the most "sense of humor" is used on RS forum..."

Now, this is mother question of all questions here! :lol:
Question and answer in one sentence.
Esteban, no matter the dissidences about lrl, you are still our very good friend here. God bless You!

[Max]

For the same reason a IR very short wave beam can carry LF like voices, for example, why not for other purposes?


Regards

Hi,
but that's not big news... you can modulate an higher frequency signal (carrier) to transmit enough informations about the wanted signal... like voice or video signals.

You need e.g. an higher frequency of carrier for good amplitude modulation...

As an example that happens when you digitize an analog signal you'll transmit with e.g. rf waves: Shannon's theorem say you must sample at more than twice the frequency of the interesting signal to transmit... that allow you completely rebuild at demodulator the original digitized signal...

But then... all well known, what's new ?

You wrote of an IR antenna and phonons... not carring LF by modulation over IR.

Where's the e.g. modulator in the LRL scenario ?

Suppose you send e.g. short IR pulses using some 555 timer + transistor + IR LED. Then use some photodiode or phototransistor to get the back scattered IR beam... ok... where's target influence in that ???

I think it's not so simple describing an LRL as saying that you carry LF signals on an IR beam.... like in a wireless headphone set...

You modulate on/off the IR source and that's all... you'll get back scattered IR signal at same 555 frequency not LF or anything else... so where's the role of target in that ?

And also, if the target of interest is (and actually IS) buried in the soil how the hell that small, weak IR emission will penetrate soil at e.g. 30 or 50cms to be scattered back by target ?

Cause otherwise you mean it's not target that scatters back the radiation but soil itself I think... but how and why ?

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Hi,
but that's not big news... you can modulate an higher frequency signal (carrier) to transmit enough informations about the wanted signal... like voice or video signals.

You need e.g. an higher frequency of carrier for good amplitude modulation...

As an example that happens when you digitize an analog signal you'll transmit with e.g. rf waves: Shannon's theorem say you must sample at more than twice the frequency of the interesting signal to transmit... that allow you completely rebuild at demodulator the original digitized signal...

But then... all well known, what's new ?

You wrote of an IR antenna and phonons... not carring LF by modulation over IR.

Where's the e.g. modulator in the LRL scenario ?

Suppose you send e.g. short IR pulses using some 555 timer + transistor + IR LED. Then use some photodiode or phototransistor to get the back scattered IR beam... ok... where's target influence in that ???

I think it's not so simple describing an LRL as saying that you carry LF signals on an IR beam.... like in a wireless headphone set...

You modulate on/off the IR source and that's all... you'll get back scattered IR signal at same 555 frequency not LF or anything else... so where's the role of target in that ?Hi Max,
It is hard for you to understand what Esteban is saying because he is not good for explaining fine details in the English language. Maybe I can help to explain what he is describing about using IR to locate treasure.

First, Esteban is saying two things: He says that IR can be used to find treasure (based on his observations in his experiments). And he is also making conclusions to describe what he believes is the principle on which the IR is detecting the treasure. Let's separate these observations and conclusions so they do not become mixed and cause confusion.

From the observations and experiments, Esteban found that when he powered an IR LED with a 400 Hz square wave, the amplitude of the power going to the IR LED would change when it was pointed at a long time buried treasure. Here are some details that you can understand:
Build a 555 timer circuit set to 50% duty cycle at a very stable 400 Hz, with a sharp rise and fall time. It does not have to be exactly 400 Hz, but it must be stable over time and with temperature changes. Use the 400 Hz to drive an IR LED directly, or with fast driver transistors if needed. Be careful not to overdrive the LED and cause it to heat up. In the LED power input circuit, connect a high impedance sample and hold with comparator circuit to sense if the amplitude of the 400 Hz is changing as the LED is pointed in different directions. The time constant should be similar to what is used in metal detectors for finding a treasure, but should be adjustable in case you decide to scan very slow or very fast. The output to this comparator that senses a variation in amplitude should be sent to a circuit that can cause beeps when rising above a preset threshold. An alternate method is to simply connect a high impedance audio amplifier to the LED input power and listen to the relative loudness of the 400 Hz transmitted signal.

The observation that Esteban is talking about is when he powers an IR LED with a clean 400 HZ square wave 50% duty cycle, the amplitude of the power sent to the IR LED will increase when it is pointing at long time buried treasure. The variation is small, and easier to find with a comparator circuit than simple listening. This is simple to do. No Rx needed.

Now for the conclusions part. This is not so simple. In fact I have never heard a believable explanation of the mechanism how IR can find treasure from Esteban or from other sources. I read a lot of information of how IR can be used for similar things, but no mechanism explained how the IR power input will change in amplitude when pointing at a halo area. One thing for sure, from the circuit that Esteban described, there is no data being transmitted from the 400 Hz carrier, and there is no Rx circuit to be tuned. This is just a simple IR LED transmitting circuit where we watch the transmitted power signal. I would prefer to form my own conclusions about how it works after considering what Esteban concludes, as well as reading other sources for the behavior of IR beams.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi Max,
It is hard for you to understand what Esteban is saying because he is not good for explaining fine details in the English language. Maybe I can help to explain what he is describing about using IR to locate treasure.

First, Esteban is saying two things: He says that IR can be used to find treasure (based on his observations in his experiments). And he is also making conclusions to describe what he believes is the principle on which the IR is detecting the treasure. Let's separate these observations and conclusions so they do not become mixed and cause confusion.

From the observations and experiments, Esteban found that when he powered an IR LED with a 400 Hz square wave, the amplitude of the power going to the IR LED would change when it was pointed at a long time buried treasure. Here are some details that you can understand:
Build a 555 timer circuit set to 50% duty cycle at a very stable 400 Hz, with a sharp rise and fall time. It does not have to be exactly 400 Hz, but it must be stable over time and with temperature changes. Use the 400 Hz to drive an IR LED directly, or with fast driver transistors if needed. Be careful not to overdrive the LED and cause it to heat up. In the LED power input circuit, connect a high impedance sample and hold with comparator circuit to sense if the amplitude of the 400 Hz is changing as the LED is pointed in different directions. The time constant should be similar to what is used in metal detectors for finding a treasure, but should be adjustable in case you decide to scan very slow or very fast. The output to this comparator that senses a variation in amplitude should be sent to a circuit that can cause beeps when rising above a preset threshold. An alternate method is to simply connect a high impedance audio amplifier to the LED input power and listen to the relative loudness of the 400 Hz transmitted signal.

The observation that Esteban is talking about is when he powers an IR LED with a clean 400 HZ square wave 50% duty cycle, the amplitude of the power sent to the IR LED will increase when it is pointing at long time buried treasure. The variation is small, and easier to find with a comparator circuit than simple listening. This is simple to do. No Rx needed.

Now for the conclusions part. This is not so simple. In fact I have never heard a believable explanation of the mechanism how IR can find treasure from Esteban or from other sources. I read a lot of information of how IR can be used for similar things, but no mechanism explained how the IR power input will change in amplitude when pointing at a halo area. One thing for sure, from the circuit that Esteban described, there is no data being transmitted from the 400 Hz carrier, and there is no Rx circuit to be tuned. This is just a simple IR LED transmitting circuit where we watch the transmitted power signal. I would prefer to form my own conclusions about how it works after considering what Esteban concludes, as well as reading other sources for the behavior of IR beams.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
ok... now I understand what he's doing with IR led.

Now is more simple for me to wire up some 555 and look at that voltage...

(don't understand why he made all that stories and doesn't focus on practical stuff! :D)

to see if it changes when pointed to something underground: I think I have also a suitable test site for that... with old scraps of metals (copper, lead and the like... also old silver)

But I have a few questions about the IR emitter...

First... which kind of emitter... there are >750nm but is needed a particular wavelenght ? Or any kind is fine for to test ?

If we use a simple IR LED emitter isn't the incident outdoor light (and generally speaking EM radiations from e.g. sun) have an effect on power the led get from the driving circuit ?

I think external light can alterate the readings on e.g. voltage drop on the junction... or not ?

I mean... like with zahori there's a risk of being fooled by unwanted environment "signals" like a reflected light beam or a particular angle you hold the IR led vs e.g. Sun direction can give.

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

:shocked::shocked:

I no way i can find a reason why a led or any transmiting only device could be afected by a distant factor :shocked:

[J_Player]

:shocked::shocked:

I no way i can find a reason why a led or any transmiting only device could be afected by a distant factor :shocked:Hi Fred,
You can't find any reason is because you have not looked in the right places for a reason. For example, here are a couple of examples of why a transmitting only device can be affected by a distant factor:

1. A radio transmitter is monitored in the broadcast studio for power transmitted at the transmitter site, and found to have a sudden increase in power. Shortly afterward the transmitter stops broadcasting. Later investigation shows that a maintenance electrician 15 miles away at the transmitter tower accidentally connected the 250 volt supply line to the 120 volt power supply at the transmitter. The insurance investigator determines that the excessive voltage caused overheating and failure of the power transformer. Thus, the transmitted power did indeed fluctuate independently of what the VU meters at the studio showed was being sent out as a modulated carrier by microwave link to the transmitter.

2. An employee of a test facility finds that people listening to him talk on his mobile phone complain of strange intermittent fluctuations in signal strength and electronic noise every day while he is at work, but have no problem hearing him from his mobile phone when he is not at work. The employee at the test facility investigates the mobile phone problem and finds that there are charged subatomic particles from his nuclear test facility that are bombarding the circuitry in his mobile phone whenever he is conducting a test. The oscilloscope connected to the output at his mobile phone shows that these weird distortions of the transmitted signal occur at the exact moment when he causes servomotors move radioactive materials outside their shielded container to irradiate test samples at the test site more than a mile away in the desert. Of course, he never thought these particles would cause variations in his mobile phone circuitry, because the actual nuclear test site is more than a mile from his laboratory. Anyway, he had extra thick lead panels installed on the walls and ceiling of the test site enclosure room, and found that the strange electronic noise can no longer be heard by people listening to him talk on the mobile phone. -- Another example of transmit-only power being affected by a distant factor.

In the case of the IR LED, I suspect you will have to look into things that can influence the transmitted power from ground where long time buried metal is located. This means your search should include educating yourself about all the geotechnical properties that may change in the vicinity of a long time buried metal object, and see if you can find something that would cause a very slight change in the power of a square wave powering an IR LED. According to Esteban, the distance that this effect can be detected for an IR LED is not very far. The IR is used in conditions when good pinpointing accuracy is necessary, not long range detection.

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

First... which kind of emitter... there are >750nm but is needed a particular wavelenght ? Or any kind is fine for to test ?

If we use a simple IR LED emitter isn't the incident outdoor light (and generally speaking EM radiations from e.g. sun) have an effect on power the led get from the driving circuit ?

I think external light can alterate the readings on e.g. voltage drop on the junction... or not ?Hi Max,
Esteban did not comment anything about the effects of the sun on the IR LED. He said he and others found long time buried objects at close range when using common IR LEDs, which are not very powerful for detection. (I believe close range means maybe up to 2 meters maximum, or 1 meter for small items). But he is sure IR laser will be better. He did not experiment with different frequencies other than what common IR LEDs were on hand. One exception is he once used a common (cheap) Chinese laser pointer modulated at very low freq., and found a button at 20 cm depth.

If you intend to experiment in with different light emitters, I would suggest trying several bright IR LEDS at different frequencies, as well as the IR lR lasers. Also note there are some very powerful white LEDs used in flashlights (torches) which may have IR versions of similar power. Then also consider the green laser pointers, modified to run at full power. Be careful, these green lasers become dangerous when at full power, and have a short lifespan.

Also, for experimenting purposes, I would suggest collimating any LED to focus it into a better beam. I imagine that the pinpointing ability and probably the range will improve if the light pattern is more of a beam instead of spread out in a large area.

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

For Fred: Another more realistic reason why a led or any transmiting only device could be affected by a distant factor:
:shocked::shocked:

I no way i can find a reason why a led or any transmiting only device could be afected by a distant factor :shocked:
Remember, Esteban's description of the IR LED detection is not at long distances, but at distances found with a good metal detector or slightly better. Here is an example of how a PI detector transmit signal is affected by a target at the similar distance as Esteban describes the IR signal:

Suppose you were to build Carl's Hammerhead PI detector, and modify the timing circuits so you will no longer look at the signal after the transmit pulse is stopped. Suppose you only look at the signal during the time when the search coil is energized and brought up to full power, and you extend the pulse length to a longer period to allow a reaction from the target. But you are monitoring only at the power being put into the coil by the batteries and FET. If you watch the wave form of the voltage or current rising into the coil, you will see a constant pulse rising from 0 v to the maximum, repeating itself at every pulse. Then when you move the coil near a large metal target, you will see the waveform changes. Why? Counter emf generated from the eddy currents in the target will impede the current being sent to the search coil, and cause it to slow down, and will show a different wave shape. This effect may be small, depending on the target, and may change due to different target metal compositions. So it will be a good idea to use electronics to sense slight variations in the transmitted pulse as it rises in order to see the change when a target is near the coil.

This is an example of a distant factor affecting a transmitting only device for a PI metal detector coil.

If we put forth the argument that the PI transmit coil is also the receive coil, then this same argument could be used for the IR led when in the proximity of long time buried metal. Could it be that the IR LED is acting as a transmit and receive sensor just as a PI coil is? If so, then the only missing piece of the puzzle is to identify what physical property of a long time buried metal and surrounding soil will cause a change in the current/voltage moving in the IR LED circuit.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

"I don't know why the most "sense of humor" is used on RS forum..."

Now, this is mother question of all questions here! :lol:
Question and answer in one sentence.
Esteban, no matter the dissidences about lrl, you are still our very good friend here. God bless You!


Ivconic, thanks. Keep the good works!

[Esteban]

Hi,
ok... now I understand what he's doing with IR led.

Now is more simple for me to wire up some 555 and look at that voltage...

(don't understand why he made all that stories and doesn't focus on practical stuff! :D)

to see if it changes when pointed to something underground: I think I have also a suitable test site for that... with old scraps of metals (copper, lead and the like... also old silver)

But I have a few questions about the IR emitter...

First... which kind of emitter... there are >750nm but is needed a particular wavelenght ? Or any kind is fine for to test ?

If we use a simple IR LED emitter isn't the incident outdoor light (and generally speaking EM radiations from e.g. sun) have an effect on power the led get from the driving circuit ?

I think external light can alterate the readings on e.g. voltage drop on the junction... or not ?

I mean... like with zahori there's a risk of being fooled by unwanted environment "signals" like a reflected light beam or a particular angle you hold the IR led vs e.g. Sun direction can give.

Kind regards,
Max

Because I think everybody imagine that this can be do by the 555.

[Esteban]

:shocked::shocked:

I no way i can find a reason why a led or any transmiting only device could be afected by a distant factor :shocked:

The transmitter is also the receiver. Why? Because the modulation (tone) is present in the audio of a radio, for example. When the object is detected (via the incisive IR light) this tone change in the audio of the radio. This is all and very simple. I think IR has limitation in depth 75 cm for small items.

[Fred]

For Fred: Another more realistic reason why a led or any transmiting only device could be affected by a distant factor:
Remember, Esteban's description of the IR LED detection is not at long distances, but at distances found with a good metal detector or slightly better. Here is an example of how a PI detector transmit signal is affected by a target at the similar distance as Esteban describes the IR signal:
J_P
Hi JP,
i think we are loosing contact with reality...your example above were not aplicable here,and i would not call this last one as a "distant" effect.
In relation to IR wavelenght , a few meters is gigantic.
Here is one other example,how a tranmiter can be afected by external conditions: monitor the power output of a transmiter, then change the medium where the antena is or make it close to a metalic object.The absorbed power (or SWR) will change .But that doesn´t work at long distance in relation to wavelenght.
Again,if you don´t have a receiver of some sort i can´t see any way to measure a diference in transmited power when pointing a beam of light to something distant.

The transmitter is also the receiver. Why? Because the modulation (tone) is present in the audio of a radio, for example. When the object is detected (via the incisive IR light) this tone change in the audio of the radio. This is all and very simple. I think IR has limitation in depth 75 cm for small items.
Esteban, i don´t understand.Are you using a radio receiver together with the IR diode? I know a IR diode also works as a receiver, but this is not the case here.

:stars::stars:

[Esteban]

Hi JP,
i think we are loosing contact with reality...your example above were not aplicable here,and i would not call this last one as a "distant" effect.
In relation to IR wavelenght , a few meters is gigantic.
Here is one other example,how a tranmiter can be afected by external conditions: monitor the power output of a transmiter, then change the medium where the antena is or make it close to a metalic object.The absorbed power (or SWR) will change .But that doesn´t work at long distance in relation to wavelenght.
Again,if you don´t have a receiver of some sort i can´t see any way to measure a diference in transmited power when pointing a beam of light to something distant.


Esteban, i don´t understand.Are you using a radio receiver together with the IR diode? I know a IR diode also works as a receiver, but this is not the case here.

:stars::stars:

When you put 2 IR leds (modulated) in serie into a box of pistol, the tone frequency appears in the audio of the radio. You can hear with a headphone this tone.

So, the "phenomenon" produce a difference in the tone and occurs the detection.

I wish to replicate the device and show in film what's happens, but my video camera broken! Maybe if I take it with cellular...

[Qiaozhi]

When you put 2 IR leds (modulated) in serie into a box of pistol, the tone frequency appears in the audio of the radio. You can hear with a headphone this tone.

So, the "phenomenon" produce a difference in the tone and occurs the detection.

I wish to replicate the device and show in film what's happens, but my video camera broken! Maybe if I take it with cellular...
So it's a sort of BFO, but using IR?

[J_Player]

i think we are loosing contact with reality...your example above were not aplicable here,and i would not call this last one as a "distant" effect.
In relation to IR wavelenght , a few meters is gigantic.
Here is one other example,how a tranmiter can be afected by external conditions: monitor the power output of a transmiter, then change the medium where the antena is or make it close to a metalic object.The absorbed power (or SWR) will change. But that doesn´t work at long distance in relation to wavelenght.My example above comparing a modified PI detector with Esteban's IR detector is very applicable. I am talking about the exact distance that Esteban described for IR LED experiments. According to Esteban, the distance is not very large, used for pinpointing only. This means reality for Esteban is the distance of PI metal detector range or slightly better. If we were to change to larger ranges, then this conversation would no longer be applicable, because Esteban did not find reality in detection with IR at long ranges of 10 meters for example, and was not limited to detection ranges of maybe 5 cm, for example. Esteban never said anything about measuring the SWR or changing the transmitting medium. What he said is the amplitude of a 400 Hz square wave transmit power signal is changed when the IR LED is pointed at a long time buried metal object. He said the IR LED does not have very long range. This is very much reality, exactly as Esteban described.

The comparison of a modified PI coil at the same reality distances as the IR LED that Esteban described will also show that the power traveling to the search coil will change when the coil is moved in the detectable range of the coil. (This PI search coil is at the same distance, or reasonably similar distance as the IR LED Esteban tested if you have a sensitive PI search coil).

Again,if you don´t have a receiver of some sort i can´t see any way to measure a diference in transmited power when pointing a beam of light to something distant.As I previously suggested, and as Esteban confirmed, the IR transmitter is the receiver, just as many PI detector search coils are both the transmitter and receiver. It is not necessary to measure SWR, only to attach oscilloscope probes to the power leads of the PI coil and to the IR LED to see the transmitted waveform is changing for both of these detectors. You could also read my previous post to Max above, and build the simple circuitry I described to monitor the amplitude of the transmitted power. See here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=90616&postcount=39
Esteban posted the information of how to do it, and I re-posted it in an easy to understand form. In fact, the dynamics inside the IR LED circuitry that Esteban described sounds strikingly similar to the dynamics inside a typical PI detector. All that is changed is the IR does not have a timing scheme to lock in on an expected counter emf signal from the target. He is only watching for a change in the overall power or average amplitude at the IR LED power leads. Apparently the property of a long time buried object that causes the transmit wave form to vary has not been identified, nor has circuitry been built to optimize the capture of the effect.

If I wanted to experiment with IR detection, I may choose a PI experimental project board such as Carl's hammerhead PI that allows a lot of adjustments to be made. This would give me the same square wave that is needed, but with adjustable widths, and lots of room for adjustable timing to look at any part of the pulse cycle from the rise to the fall and beyond. Perhaps this would be a good way to study how the IR reacts when different long time buried targets are in range.

The new example Esteban is now giving will confuse his earlier posts, because he is now talking about a different method of using a receiver rather than simply monitoring the transmitted power as he previously stated.

In his new example, Esteban is stating that the change in the transmitted power going into the single IR LED can also be detected by using a separate independent receiver to listen to the transmitted 400 Hz carrier sent by the transmitter. This is his way of monitoring the IR Tx power without connecting a probe to the wires inside or using the comparator circuit I earlier described. A small hand-held radio receiver can be converted for use in the field instead of carrying an oscilloscope or building a comparator and beeping section inside the IR LED detector.

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

For all who are interested in Esteban's methods of detecting long time buried metal objects:

Esteban's idea of detecting long time buried metal objects begins with what he calls "the phenomenon", sometimes called "halo" by others. The concept is that a long time buried metal object will be surrounded by soil that has different geotechnical properties than nearby soil without long time buried metal objects. The changed properties of this soil cause changes in secondary effects from existing natural and man-made energies that are found in the nearby vicinity. When all the changed properties of soil and associated secondary energies nearby are tabulated, there are many types of measurable effects from the long time buried metal object which constitute anomalies centered around the target. These anomalies are usually small in comparison to the surrounding energies, so sensitive instruments must be used to detect them.

Some of the larger anomalies that can be measured are:
1. Voltage anomaly in the soil around the long time buried metal object due to "ground battery" mechanisms from metal ions that have separated from the metal object and are combining with constituents in the soil.
2. Soil conductivity (or resistivity) anomaly in the soil, due to the presence of metal ions that have detached from the surface of the long time buried metal object and dissolved in the soil.
3. Anomaly in the space charge of the air above the long time buried metal object. This comes from the natural atmospheric leakage of current between the surface of the earth and the atmosphere. The theory is the air's charge that is leaking at the surface of the earth will be more concentrated in the area of the soil that has the higher conductivity from the dissolved metal ions of long time buried metal. This can be measured as an anomaly of reduced local voltage gradient in the air above the target. The movement of leakage current will be greater above the target than the surrounding air, and the voltage gradient will be less. This anomaly is highly influenced by the relative humidity of the air as well as other factors such as time of day, weather and solar activity.

There are many other secondary effects that have been listed by Esteban and others throughout the remote sensing forum that are also associated with the presence of long time buried metal objects. While Esteban does not specify which are the best anomalies to look for, he has said that different kinds of detectors may be needed for different tasks in finding a long time buried metal object. ie: Unshielded pistol coil detectors can be used for long range detection, but are poor for pinpointing. IR LED detectors work well for pinpointing, but are poor for long range detection, etc.

But one main central theme is the basis for Esteban's long time buried metal detecting:
The phenomenon is present in a piece of wire. The problem is only to convert it to a sound.

All the different LRL experiments that Esteban has described are attempts to select the slight fluctuation of current in a wire when it is influenced by a "phenomenon" area, and cause the wire to make a beep sound. His methods use simple electronics arranged in clever ways that most engineers would not consider, because they like better control of the signal they are looking for, and they like to fully understand the signal so they can optimize the circuitry to reject non-target noise. In order for an engineer to arrive at the point of understanding the signal, it would seem wise to learn a lot more about the minute anomalies that are associated with long time buried metal objects before building complex circuitry. The answers lie in the fields of geology, geotechnical engineering and astrophysics, as well as in a few other disciplines. You could also try to replicate some of the experiments that Esteban described using simple electronic circuits.

What I typed above is what I think Esteban believes is the mechanism of the "phenomenon". My opinion has always been that long time buried metals and the soil around them are not the same as freshly buried metals. My approach for locating long time buried metals is much different than what Esteban has done. But we can see from the results that Esteban described, his methods work just fine for him.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

:shocked::shocked:

I no way i can find a reason why a led or any transmiting only device could be afected by a distant factor :shocked:

Hi,
Ok... but this as JP stated is about claimed "effects"... let's focus on device/schematic and spot tricky signal interferences like environment light... that I think can fool readings like e.g. grass static potential can fool zahori or other electrometer like device.

Effects could be unexplainable unless we know the supposed principle of operation of such device... but that's another issue.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

So it's a sort of BFO, but using IR?

Hi,
without regarding the explaination of that... assuming Esteban's experiences are like described about effects (change of tone) I could see it like a BFO too.

Early BFO used just one coil , both for to transmit and "receive" signal... in practice when a metallic target was in the search head field lines it will create an increase or decrease in inductance (depending on magnetic properties of material), thus the inductance variation will lead to frequency shift , up or down in frequency, that mixed with internal-fixed oscillator would give a different "tone"... usually higher frequency for silver and other "noble" metals... and lower frequency for e.g. ferromagnetic stuff like nails.

That kind of BFO is really similar to what Esteban's reported... seems the target or target area/soil aorund can generate a shift in frequency respect to the oscillator preset (400Hz) then he said used a radio to provide audio indication of that.

I think he means the output of such IR transmitter is somehow connected to an e.g. AM radio where the tone at 400Hz is detected and produce audio at speaker. Then... when a target is pointed seems he get a different tone in the speaker... meaning that the IR transmitter changed its frequency).

Now that's different from JP report where one would expect an amplitude variation not a frequency shift... unless Esteban means that the tone change but in amplitude... not frequency.


he wrote : "So, the "phenomenon" produce a difference in the tone and occurs the detection."

all depends what he means for "difference" , if amplitude or frequency...

1. if amplitude we aren't talking of BFO but of power at transmitter that change...

2. if frequency we're talking about unusual kind of BFO

But I think he meant (like JP stated) the 1. (power variation)


Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

That kind of BFO is really similar to what Esteban's reported... seems the target or target area/soil aorund can generate a shift in frequency respect to the oscillator preset (400Hz) then he said used a radio to provide audio indication of that.

I think he means the output of such IR transmitter is somehow connected to an e.g. AM radio where the tone at 400Hz is detected and produce audio at speaker. Then... when a target is pointed seems he get a different tone in the speaker... meaning that the IR transmitter changed its frequency).

Now that's different from JP report where one would expect an amplitude variation not a frequency shift... unless Esteban means that the tone change but in amplitude... not frequency.


he wrote : "So, the "phenomenon" produce a difference in the tone and occurs the detection."

all depends what he means for "difference" , if amplitude or frequency...Hi Max,
When Esteban described the IR LED detection method, he said it was a simple transmitter with a comparator circuit to monitor the amplitude. "I think occurs a variation in height between the tone present in a receive" "The height of the tone changes. A simple adjustable comparator with audio generator". He then described some other experiments where he used a separate radio receiver to monitor the carrier of the IR LED. "This tone (modulation) appears as a phase shift in a receiver system".

I also had some confusion in understanding his meaning. When he said "The height of the tone changes. A simple adjustable comparator with audio generator", it sounds like he is talking about the amplitude of the carrier can be monitored by using a comparator. Then when he says it appears as a phase shift in a receiver system, I begin to suspect the carrier is modified in a more complex manner.

A clue comes from Esteban's method of sending the square wave to the IR LED. It is sent to the IR LED via capacitor, which may allow the rising and falling edges of the pulse to decay to some degree depending on the capacitor value and the current draw from the LED. If some phenomenon was interfering with the normal wave shape, then we could expect it might show as a deformation in the pulse that could stretch it, shift it, or perhaps cause it to increase or decrease in amplitude or overall power.

I would speculate that the 400 Hz carrier signal Esteban was working with was shifted in phase as a result of interference from some attribute of the "phenomenon" area. My guess is the wave shape was deformed enough to give the appearance of a wave deformation where the rising and/or falling edges become mushy, which might be seen as a phase shift. It may have also caused the average power to change, as represented by areas of higher amplitude, and/or larger area under the pulse curve when viewed on an oscilloscope. Possibly there is an overall phase shift independent of the wave shape deformation. But this is only my guess, as I have not had the opportunity to see the trace on an oscilloscope connected to Esteban's IR detector in the vicinity of long time buried metal.

The concept of an interfering influence seems simple. What seems hard to understand is what is Esteban's meaning when he describes what he observed.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

I think he means the output of such IR transmitter is somehow connected to an e.g. AM radio where the tone at 400Hz is detected and produce audio at speaker. Then... when a target is pointed seems he get a different tone in the speaker... meaning that the IR transmitter changed its frequency).
Of course, you need to ask Esteban, but this is how I understood the idea:
There are two IR beams at slightly different frequencies. It is the difference frequency between these two that is somehow being detected by the AM radio. How that works I don't know.

So it appears to be a BFO, although there is no traditional RF and LO.

[Max]

When you put 2 IR leds (modulated) in serie into a box of pistol, the tone frequency appears in the audio of the radio. You can hear with a headphone this tone.

So, the "phenomenon" produce a difference in the tone and occurs the detection.

I wish to replicate the device and show in film what's happens, but my video camera broken! Maybe if I take it with cellular...

Hi,
ok, you have an oscillator, maybe a 555, in astable mode, 50% duty cycle, 400Hz (about) frequency. the output of it is connected to 2 IR LEDs in series, so both share the same current.

Then you have a radio receiver that get the EM signal from current on-off due to the oscillator stuff at 400Hz.
I guess you use an simple amplitude modulation receiver, so a commercial portable AM radio for that, that in proximity of IR LED circuit will detect the EM signal due to commutations and give audio tone at 400Hz from the 400Hz EM signal...you have everything there at receiver already... rectifier, audio amplifier etc

Then you listen for audio changes ? Right ?

1. Ok... if audio change in frequency the explaination is like Qiaozhi stated: kind of BFO... don't know why but the EM signal change frequency and that you hear a changed frequency tone at headphones

2. If , instead, you hear stronger... so more loud the audio you get something at e.g. voltage variation at IR circuit... thus a change in e.g. power drain by IR leds is shown as a drop or increase in loudness.

So, what do you hear in presence of phenomenon ? frequency variation or loudness variation ?

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

For all who are interested in Esteban's methods of detecting long time buried metal objects:

Esteban's idea of detecting long time buried metal objects begins with what he calls "the phenomenon", sometimes called "halo" by others. The concept is that a long time buried metal object will be surrounded by soil that has different geotechnical properties than nearby soil without long time buried metal objects. The changed properties of this soil cause changes in secondary effects from existing natural and man-made energies that are found in the nearby vicinity. When all the changed properties of soil and associated secondary energies nearby are tabulated, there are many types of measurable effects from the long time buried metal object which constitute anomalies centered around the target. These anomalies are usually small in comparison to the surrounding energies, so sensitive instruments must be used to detect them.

Some of the larger anomalies that can be measured are:
1. Voltage anomaly in the soil around the long time buried metal object due to "ground battery" mechanisms from metal ions that have separated from the metal object and are combining with constituents in the soil.
2. Soil conductivity (or resistivity) anomaly in the soil, due to the presence of metal ions that have detached from the surface of the long time buried metal object and dissolved in the soil.
3. Anomaly in the space charge of the air above the long time buried metal object. This comes from the natural atmospheric leakage of current between the surface of the earth and the atmosphere. The theory is the air's charge that is leaking at the surface of the earth will be more concentrated in the area of the soil that has the higher conductivity from the dissolved metal ions of long time buried metal. This can be measured as an anomaly of reduced local voltage gradient in the air above the target. The movement of leakage current will be greater above the target than the surrounding air, and the voltage gradient will be less. This anomaly is highly influenced by the relative humidity of the air as well as other factors such as time of day, weather and solar activity.

There are many other secondary effects that have been listed by Esteban and others throughout the remote sensing forum that are also associated with the presence of long time buried metal objects. While Esteban does not specify which are the best anomalies to look for, he has said that different kinds of detectors may be needed for different tasks in finding a long time buried metal object. ie: Unshielded pistol coil detectors can be used for long range detection, but are poor for pinpointing. IR LED detectors work well for pinpointing, but are poor for long range detection, etc.

But one main central theme is the basis for Esteban's long time buried metal detecting:
The phenomenon is present in a piece of wire. The problem is only to convert it to a sound.

All the different LRL experiments that Esteban has described are attempts to select the slight fluctuation of current in a wire when it is influenced by a "phenomenon" area, and cause the wire to make a beep sound. His methods use simple electronics arranged in clever ways that most engineers would not consider, because they like better control of the signal they are looking for, and they like to fully understand the signal so they can optimize the circuitry to reject non-target noise. In order for an engineer to arrive at the point of understanding the signal, it would seem wise to learn a lot more about the minute anomalies that are associated with long time buried metal objects before building complex circuitry. The answers lie in the fields of geology, geotechnical engineering and astrophysics, as well as in a few other disciplines. You could also try to replicate some of the experiments that Esteban described using simple electronic circuits.

What I typed above is what I think Esteban believes is the mechanism of the "phenomenon". My opinion has always been that long time buried metals and the soil around them are not the same as freshly buried metals. My approach for locating long time buried metals is much different than what Esteban has done. But we can see from the results that Esteban described, his methods work just fine for him.

Best wishes,
J_P

This explanation is fine.

Regards

Esteban

[Esteban]

The common IR led can detect a coin at 7 m. Today in market are IR leds with incorporated lenses capable to send the ray at 100 m. Elektor was publish in the 80s a IR voice communicator capable to send the ray to 1,750 m, this is, 1.75 km, but uses a old car beacon, not the modern.

[Max]

The common IR led can detect a coin at 7 m. Today in market are IR leds with incorporated lenses capable to send the ray at 100 m. Elektor was publish in the 80s a IR voice communicator capable to send the ray to 1,750 m, this is, 1.75 km, but uses a old car beacon, not the modern.

Hi,
ok...IR-based LRL , you said, can detect a coin at 7meters... so now you have to teach us HOW!

I made the driver circuit... 555, astable mode, 400Hz, 50%duty cycle that directly power two IR leds in series. The 555 is powered by stable 5V by 7805 regulator to avoid voltage floatings due to e.g. battery.

Consumption is around 100mA (depends on leds used).

Ok... here some pictures:

1. circuit (notice the quality... made of pure junk... but I think it's compatible with state of the art lrl :D) + bradboard with leds
2. LD271 leds (I guess they are LD271 from what I remember) that glow bright
3. unknown metal can IR leds (760nm I think) that glow but less bright so less efficient

I put the AM radio near... and hear the "tone" at 400Hz (of course).

Now the challenge for you... teach us (poor LRL ignorants) making one that work!:rolleyes:

So now... that you're the LRL guru here ... what I have to do with that stuff to detect a coin at 7m... ??? :D

(I will be satisfied also with 50cm detection... just to have proofs that this stuff really work)

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Wow..! He did it! :eek: :eek: :eek:
Max built the IR LED long time buried metal detector! :shocked:

I think you're sposta point the LED at long time buried metal things now and listen for a change in the tone at the radio receiver.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

Hi,
ok...IR-based LRL , you said, can detect a coin at 7meters... so now you have to teach us HOW!

I made the driver circuit... 555, astable mode, 400Hz, 50%duty cycle that directly power two IR leds in series. The 555 is powered by stable 5V by 7805 regulator to avoid voltage floatings due to e.g. battery.

Consumption is around 100mA (depends on leds used).

Ok... here some pictures:

1. circuit (notice the quality... made of pure junk... but I think it's compatible with state of the art lrl :D) + bradboard with leds
2. LD271 leds (I guess they are LD271 from what I remember) that glow bright
3. unknown metal can IR leds (760nm I think) that glow but less bright so less efficient

I put the AM radio near... and hear the "tone" at 400Hz (of course).

Now the challenge for you... teach us (poor LRL ignorants) making one that work!:rolleyes:

So now... that you're the LRL guru here ... what I have to do with that stuff to detect a coin at 7m... ??? :D

(I will be satisfied also with 50cm detection... just to have proofs that this stuff really work)

Kind regards,
Max
After this demonstration,i only ask ,if you are a skeptic about LRL´s(you call lier to me and Esteban many times),WHY YOU SPEND TIME BUILDING THIS DEVICES ?

[Fred]

I think Max finally found complete information about how to build a LRL so he is doing it...

[Esteban]

Hi,
ok...IR-based LRL , you said, can detect a coin at 7meters... so now you have to teach us HOW!

I made the driver circuit... 555, astable mode, 400Hz, 50%duty cycle that directly power two IR leds in series. The 555 is powered by stable 5V by 7805 regulator to avoid voltage floatings due to e.g. battery.

Consumption is around 100mA (depends on leds used).

Ok... here some pictures:

1. circuit (notice the quality... made of pure junk... but I think it's compatible with state of the art lrl :D) + bradboard with leds
2. LD271 leds (I guess they are LD271 from what I remember) that glow bright
3. unknown metal can IR leds (760nm I think) that glow but less bright so less efficient

I put the AM radio near... and hear the "tone" at 400Hz (of course).

Now the challenge for you... teach us (poor LRL ignorants) making one that work!:rolleyes:

So now... that you're the LRL guru here ... what I have to do with that stuff to detect a coin at 7m... ??? :D

(I will be satisfied also with 50cm detection... just to have proofs that this stuff really work)

Kind regards,
Max

You are a champion revealing your attitude!

[Max]

After this demonstration,i only ask ,if you are a skeptic about LRL´s(you call lier to me and Esteban many times),WHY YOU SPEND TIME BUILDING THIS DEVICES ?

Hi,
uhm... took 20minutes maybe... some junk parts... why not.
In the case it doesn't work (as probably is and I think of it) I will add to my non-sense collection! :razz:

But now... that you're experts ...why don't help make this one reach 7meters on a coin!?:D

As you can see I'm experimenting...following Esteban's claims and descriptions... so I'm not closed mind about LRL... or not ?:lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

I think Max finally found complete information about how to build a LRL so he is doing it...

Hi,
no, no... I'm doing as Esteban described... now he can help me to reach that 7meters with this simple device... or even 50cm doesn't matter... I just wanna see if "principle" works as Esteban claimed or not! ;)

If anyone wanna try I will post schematic and components bill... (though it's very basic astable 555 and hope anyone can make such calculations...)

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

You are a champion revealing your attitude!

Hi,
and you're a champion claiming that an IR stuff detects coin at 7meters... than give no hints or clues how to make it work ? :shocked:

Now... if you're serious about IR LRL detector you'll explain me (us) how to implement or tune this... "device" to get such far detection...

As you can see I spent TIME and EFFORTS for doing this thing you said... and would like to have some RESULT! :D

Or now... that we are at practical scenario you refuse to give more informations ?

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi,
just a couple of pictures about progresses... :D

Added hot-melt glue... some hard cardboard (?) from trash... and the AM radio... what do you think ...could that stuff detect a coin at 7meters ? :lol:

BTW I've added funky component like loop-antenna wired in series with IR diodes...uh!

Now signal at AM radio is VERY strong indeed! :razz:

Esteban what do you think ? is that design compatible with 7meters coin detection ? :stars:

Hope you'll give hints about...

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Hi,
and you're a champion claiming that an IR stuff detects coin at 7meters... than give no hints or clues how to make it work ? :shocked:

Now... if you're serious about IR LRL detector you'll explain me (us) how to implement or tune this... "device" to get such far detection...

As you can see I spent TIME and EFFORTS for doing this thing you said... and would like to have some RESULT! :D

Or now... that we are at practical scenario you refuse to give more informations ?

Kind regards,
Max

As you said, you spent 20 MINUTES and EFFORT with this junk. Maybe you need to spent 20 years and effort in such junks!

[Esteban]

Hi,
and you're a champion claiming that an IR stuff detects coin at 7meters... than give no hints or clues how to make it work ? :shocked:

Now... if you're serious about IR LRL detector you'll explain me (us) how to implement or tune this... "device" to get such far detection...

As you can see I spent TIME and EFFORTS for doing this thing you said... and would like to have some RESULT! :D

Or now... that we are at practical scenario you refuse to give more informations ?

Kind regards,
Max

All the time I give hints and clues, but if you don't pay a minimun of attention I can't repeat it all the time.

As Mr. A. said to me: "If I give all the secret to others, of others will be the credit". :nono:

[Esteban]

Hi,
just a couple of pictures about progresses... :D

Added hot-melt glue... some hard cardboard (?) from trash... and the AM radio... what do you think ...could that stuff detect a coin at 7meters ? :lol:

BTW I've added funky component like loop-antenna wired in series with IR diodes...uh!

Now signal at AM radio is VERY strong indeed! :razz:

Esteban what do you think ? is that design compatible with 7meters coin detection ? :stars:

Hope you'll give hints about...

Kind regards,
Max

Said me, and demonstrate me, in wich part I said that I use in AM mode! Do you see? ... but if you don't pay a minimun of attention I can't repeat it all the time.

[Qiaozhi]

Hi,
just a couple of pictures about progresses... :D

Added hot-melt glue... some hard cardboard (?) from trash... and the AM radio... what do you think ...could that stuff detect a coin at 7meters ? :lol:

BTW I've added funky component like loop-antenna wired in series with IR diodes...uh!

Now signal at AM radio is VERY strong indeed! :razz:

Esteban what do you think ? is that design compatible with 7meters coin detection ? :stars:

Hope you'll give hints about...

Kind regards,
Max
So what happens when a metal target is passed in front of the LEDs?

[Esteban]

So what happens when a metal target is passed in front of the LEDs?

This is a wrong construction! First of all, as is in AM mode, if you pass a regular size metal, can be a detection but because the ferrite is affected.

[Max]

So what happens when a metal target is passed in front of the LEDs?

Absolutely... NOTHING! :lol:
Sounds the same... don't change even a bit...:razz:

But maybe requires long time buried metal target... :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Absolutely... NOTHING! :lol:
Sounds the same... don't change even a bit...:razz:

But maybe requires long time buried metal target... :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

Of course, you can't differentiate anything with the construction you have made!

Regards

[Max]

All the time I give hints and clues, but if you don't pay a minimun of attention I can't repeat it all the time.

As Mr. A. said to me: "If I give all the secret to others, of others will be the credit". :nono:

So now that I'm trying to realize one of your "designs" of LRLs... you refuse to give help! Fine! :lol:

Seems to me... that people here will read that as the fact this thing doesn't work detecting a coin at 7meters! :D

I was sure even before mounting that c.r.a.p. you have not provided any hint or advice to make it work... don't know why.

Now that I made that stupid circuit... that could be good as noise generator (maybe)... the hints and advices, the stamp-sized plans and circuits just vanished!? :lol:

Secrets ? :razz:

Which secrets... you say use IR , use toroids use bla bla... then when one "seriously" try to make one of these c.r.a.p. you don't make anymore such posts, uh ? Why ?

About AM radio... it's the one that let you hear that noise... or wanna use FM instead ??? :D
Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Of course, you can't differentiate anything with the construction you have made!

Regards

Ok... my fault ! (say that...) :D

So tell me what I have to do to detect such coin with this stuff...

tell me the changes I have to make, I will do, test and report results here for all.

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

So now that I'm trying to realize one of your "designs" of LRLs... you refuse to give help! Fine! :lol:

Seems to me... that people here will read that as the fact this thing doesn't work detecting a coin at 7meters! :D

I was sure even before mounting that c.r.a.p. you have not provided any hint or advice to make it work... don't know why.

Now that I made that stupid circuit... that could be good as noise generator (maybe)... the hints and advices, the stamp-sized plans and circuits just vanished!? :lol:

Secrets ? :razz:

Which secrets... you say use IR , use toroids use bla bla... then when one "seriously" try to make one of these c.r.a.p. you don't make anymore such posts, uh ? Why ?

About AM radio... it's the one that let you hear that noise... or wanna use FM instead ??? :D
Kind regards,
Max

Why dou don't read about the radio and other things in previous posts I sent today? Or aren't viewable?

Do you continue with it?

Regards

[Fred]

Esteban,
In such a simple circuit cirrcuit, why you don´t just explain what is needed to make it work in a few words? Max will make it i´m sure...and you could show simply show us that such a device can actually work.

[Esteban]

Esteban,
In such a simple circuit cirrcuit, why you don´t just explain what is needed to make it work in a few words? Max will make it i´m sure...and you could show simply show us that such a device can actually work.

Everytime I explain with few words, but seems here few people read it. For example, in wich part of ALL MY POST SINCE 2001 I said that I use AM mode?

[Fred]

Everytime I explain with few words, but seems here few people read it. For example, in wich part of ALL MY POST SINCE 2001 I said that I use AM mode?
I don´t know, but i wich you could just explain all together how to do the IR test.So we have the info at once and can try it.
Esteban, you like too much to make riddles...

[Qiaozhi]

Of course, you can't differentiate anything with the construction you have made!

Regards
Perhaps I read the description wrongly, but I thought there should be two separate LED circuits that produce a beat frequency, not just one circuit as Max has built.

Right or wrong?

[Max]

Perhaps I read the description wrongly, but I thought there should be two separate LED circuits that produce a beat frequency, not just one circuit as Max has built.

Right or wrong?

That's the problem with him... you have to interpretate his words... it's silly that he now say that never wrote about AM mode...

ok... maybe it's FM mode! :razz:

And then ? Can't he simply correct me (us) if we are wrong... instead of playing that silly-game here...

Seems I have to do with a kid... :p

Problem is that he's probably well ahead from puberty! :shocked:

But still need the ...ops... pacifier! :lol:

Maybe if I give him some candy he will reveal if it's FM or not! :nono:

Too sugar is bad...

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

I don´t know, but i wich you could just explain all together how to do the IR test.So we have the info at once and can try it.
Esteban, you like too much to make riddles...

Oh man... you're an optimist ! it will be too cool... for us! :lol:

It's maybe 10years he posts bite-sized of stamp-sized circuits! :razz:

I cannot belive he will EVER post a complete LRL projects of any kind!;)

Kind regards,
Max

[detectoman]

i aggrege whit esteban, for little max have sucees jajajaj

yo estoy de acuerdo con usted esteban, max por poco lo logra fiuuuuuu
todo eso ha sido ya explicado en etapas por esteban hot hot max
jajaja max need put the fetts in tierra hups, what bad english

[Fred]

todo eso ha sido ya explicado en etapas por esteban
Pues el problema es que fue por etapas.AsÃ* es que algunos acaban por sentirse jodidos.:D

[Esteban]

Perhaps I read the description wrongly, but I thought there should be two separate LED circuits that produce a beat frequency, not just one circuit as Max has built.

Right or wrong?

Don't know if that produce a beat frequency. Just final audio is indication of detection.

[Esteban]

Oh man... you're an optimist ! it will be too cool... for us! :lol:

It's maybe 10years he posts bite-sized of stamp-sized circuits! :razz:

I cannot belive he will EVER post a complete LRL projects of any kind!;)

Kind regards,
Max

Who knows!

Many years ago I use good FM radio, but today seem the small radios in market are very "sintetized", not the old with many IF transformers.

The theme is to found a equal radio for all projects and maybe a TDA 7000 can be good for it.

http://www.escol.com.my/Projects/Project-01(FM-Radio)/Proj-01.html

[Esteban]

i aggrege whit esteban, for little max have sucees jajajaj

yo estoy de acuerdo con usted esteban, max por poco lo logra fiuuuuuu
todo eso ha sido ya explicado en etapas por esteban hot hot max
jajaja max need put the fetts in tierra hups, what bad english

He, he, he!!! Is simple and complex at same time.

[Esteban]

That's the problem with him... you have to interpretate his words... it's silly that he now say that never wrote about AM mode...

ok... maybe it's FM mode! :razz:

And then ? Can't he simply correct me (us) if we are wrong... instead of playing that silly-game here...

Seems I have to do with a kid... :p

Problem is that he's probably well ahead from puberty! :shocked:

But still need the ...ops... pacifier! :lol:

Maybe if I give him some candy he will reveal if it's FM or not! :nono:

Too sugar is bad...

Kind regards,
Max

I think it of you for your new avatar!!! :razz:

[Esteban]

Oh man... you're an optimist ! it will be too cool... for us! :lol:

It's maybe 10years he posts bite-sized of stamp-sized circuits! :razz:

I cannot belive he will EVER post a complete LRL projects of any kind!;)

Kind regards,
Max

Also post complete MD schematics. Do you remember?

[Esteban]

That's the problem with him... you have to interpretate his words... it's silly that he now say that never wrote about AM mode...

ok... maybe it's FM mode! :razz:

And then ? Can't he simply correct me (us) if we are wrong... instead of playing that silly-game here...

Seems I have to do with a kid... :p

Problem is that he's probably well ahead from puberty! :shocked:

But still need the ...ops... pacifier! :lol:

Maybe if I give him some candy he will reveal if it's FM or not! :nono:

Too sugar is bad...

Kind regards,
Max

No revelation you needed. Always I refer is FM radio. So, is not a secret.

[Esteban]

Somewhere I have an email from the final owner of Poptronix giving me permission to post complete articles from any of the old issues, which includes Popular Electronics. So post whatever you want.

- Carl

My vote is September 1964 issue.

Regards

Esteban

[Morgan]

Who knows!

Many years ago I use good FM radio, but today seem the small radios in market are very "sintetized", not the old with many IF transformers.

The theme is to found a equal radio for all projects and maybe a TDA 7000 can be good for it.

http://www.escol.com.my/Projects/Project-01(FM-Radio)/Proj-01.html
TDA 7000

connected to Zahori...or maybe the DCH...:rolleyes:

[detectoman]

icant understand because max was he EE and cant understand this simple explanation and how should be the conexion
max have all the elements for build easy one lrl, only faulth ingredients comun sense
yo no entiendo como max siendo EE y con tanta experiencia y habiendo leeido tanto de esteban, y tanto acerca de los lrls, no puede entender como debera ser esa conjuncion para poder hacer funcionar
max intenta casar una pareja que no se conoce ja
es como querer llevar agua sin manguera
bueno yo solo soy teorico aun no saco mi primer boton

[Esteban]

icant understand because max was he EE and cant understand this simple explanation and how should be the conexion
max have all the elements for build easy one lrl, only faulth ingredients comun sense
yo no entiendo como max siendo EE y con tanta experiencia y habiendo leeido tanto de esteban, y tanto acerca de los lrls, no puede entender como debera ser esa conjuncion para poder hacer funcionar
max intenta casar una pareja que no se conoce ja
es como querer llevar agua sin manguera
bueno yo solo soy teorico aun no saco mi primer boton



Lee pero no atiende.

[Max]

Lee pero no atiende.

Always my fault... I read... then I don't make the proper things..!:D

Ok... I need FM... I'll switch the radio to FM... costs me few!:rolleyes:

Just this or I have to make something else , also ?

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

icant understand because max was he EE and cant understand this simple explanation and how should be the conexion
max have all the elements for build easy one lrl, only faulth ingredients comun sense
yo no entiendo como max siendo EE y con tanta experiencia y habiendo leeido tanto de esteban, y tanto acerca de los lrls, no puede entender como debera ser esa conjuncion para poder hacer funcionar
max intenta casar una pareja que no se conoce ja
es como querer llevar agua sin manguera
bueno yo solo soy teorico aun no saco mi primer boton



:lol:

No quiero casarme cosas diferentes ... Quiero simplemente repetir que LRL maravilloso! :D

Saludos cordiales,
Max

[Esteban]

Always my fault... I read... then I don't make the proper things..!:D

Ok... I need FM... I'll switch the radio to FM... costs me few!:rolleyes:

Just this or I have to make something else , also ?

Kind regards,
Max

Maybe this is not good site for to discuss it! :lol:

[Clondike Clad]

So now that I'm trying to realize one of your "designs" of LRLs... you refuse to give help! Fine! :lol:

Seems to me... that people here will read that as the fact this thing doesn't work detecting a coin at 7meters! :D

I was sure even before mounting that c.r.a.p. you have not provided any hint or advice to make it work... don't know why.

Now that I made that stupid circuit... that could be good as noise generator (maybe)... the hints and advices, the stamp-sized plans and circuits just vanished!? :lol:

Secrets ? :razz:

Which secrets... you say use IR , use toroids use bla bla... then when one "seriously" try to make one of these c.r.a.p. you don't make anymore such posts, uh ? Why ?

About AM radio... it's the one that let you hear that noise... or wanna use FM instead ??? :D
Kind regards,
Max
I build many circuits and not one, NOT ONE.NOT ONE worked.
If you are like me you know HOW ELECTRONICS WORK.

You know as well as I do the BULL IS DEEP.
Now I will go back to lurking

[Theseus]

Maybe this is not good site for to discuss it! :lol:

Or, maybe it is a perfectly logical site to discuss it, but there is no desire to discuss it at a level where real knowledge and details are provided. ;)

[Esteban]

I build many circuits and not one, NOT ONE.NOT ONE worked.
If you are like me you know HOW ELECTRONICS WORK.

You know as well as I do the BULL IS DEEP.
Now I will go back to lurking

Do you build many?

I build many and failed. I build many with success, but your persistence must be extraterrestrial. You must to think in things nobody think!

[J_Player]

I build many and failed. I build many with success, but your persistence must be extraterrestrial. You must to think in things nobody think!Hi Esteban,
Your words are true. Your approach to building circuits for LRLs is not the same as most electronic engineers and experimenters would use. The people who use conventional methods will not have success with building your circuits because they are trying to design according to conventional designs, without considering the importance of the essential small signals that you look to capture. When Clondike Clad says "Not one worked", he is talking about other variations of LRL that he built from other people, not your designs. He does not have experience with using a radio receiver to monitor the audio frequency signal of an oscillator, (this method is not taught to experimenters, or in schools that teach electronics). I expect that people who cannot follow your instructions and build the circuitry as you described will not find success. The best they can do is to say the theories they were taught do not explain how your methods can work.

One problem with your previous posts is that you have not given a good description of the IR LED detector. I read your posts for IR metal detectors, and I see some confusing information. One example of confusing information is for the receiver. Here is what you previously explained about the receiver for the IR LED detector: "I think occurs a variation in height between the tone present in a receiver (this is filtrate as an interference in ANY sensitive system like a milivoltmeter). YOU DON'T NEED IR leds receiver. Also this filtrates in FM reveiver, and the signal of the target is directly in the beam or beams, no in the telescopic antenna, for example. But today maybe is not possible in this band (FM)".
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=58722&postcount=56

The words you posted give some information, but also makes a puzzle. What you posted tells us that the signal of the target is in the IR beam, not in a telescopic antenna, and can be heard on an FM receiver. But most portable FM radios use a telescopic antenna to receive their signals. This makes another puzzle of what to use for tuning the signal. When you say "today maybe is not possible in this band (FM)", This makes people think the FM will not work because you say maybe it is not possible, and the signal does not travel in the telescopic antenna. So they think maybe they must use AM for listening to the variation in the height of the tone that you say can be heard.

Also, you say there is a variation in the height between the tone present in the receiver. In English, this means the amplitude of the square wave is changing. But you later say that the phase is shifted. This is where you make the puzzle. Nobody knows what kind of change to look for... Amplitude or phase shift? Or maybe something else changed that Esteban did not tell us... maybe frequency? This makes some people think that a BFO detector will find the change, others think AM radio will detect the change of amplitude. Nobody knows what you have explained. This is not because they did not read your words. It is because your words are confusing. Many people would understand the IR LED detector if they had some clear explanation, but what you posted will lead most people to arrive at the wrong idea for how your IR LED detector works.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi Esteban,
Your words are true. Your approach to building circuits for LRLs is not the same as most electronic engineers and experimenters would use. The people who use conventional methods will not have success with building your circuits because they are trying to design according to conventional designs, without considering the importance of the essential small signals that you look to capture. When Clondike Clad says "Not one worked", he is talking about other variations of LRL that he built from other people, not your designs. He does not have experience with using a radio receiver to monitor the audio frequency signal of an oscillator, (this method is not taught to experimenters, or in schools that teach electronics). I expect that people who cannot follow your instructions and build the circuitry as you described will not find success. The best they can do is to say the theories they were taught do not explain how your methods can work.

One problem with your previous posts is that you have not given a good description of the IR LED detector. I read your posts for IR metal detectors, and I see some confusing information. One example of confusing information is for the receiver. Here is what you previously explained about the receiver for the IR LED detector: "I think occurs a variation in height between the tone present in a receiver (this is filtrate as an interference in ANY sensitive system like a milivoltmeter). YOU DON'T NEED IR leds receiver. Also this filtrates in FM reveiver, and the signal of the target is directly in the beam or beams, no in the telescopic antenna, for example. But today maybe is not possible in this band (FM)".
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=58722&postcount=56

The words you posted give some information, but also makes a puzzle. What you posted tells us that the signal of the target is in the IR beam, not in a telescopic antenna, and can be heard on an FM receiver. But most portable FM radios use a telescopic antenna to receive their signals. This makes another puzzle of what to use for tuning the signal. When you say "today maybe is not possible in this band (FM)", This makes people think the FM will not work because you say maybe it is not possible, and the signal does not travel in the telescopic antenna. So they think maybe they must use AM for listening to the variation in the height of the tone that you say can be heard.

Also, you say there is a variation in the height between the tone present in the receiver. In English, this means the amplitude of the square wave is changing. But you later say that the phase is shifted. This is where you make the puzzle. Nobody knows what kind of change to look for... Amplitude or phase shift? Or maybe something else changed that Esteban did not tell us... maybe frequency? This makes some people think that a BFO detector will find the change, others think AM radio will detect the change of amplitude. Nobody knows what you have explained. This is not because they did not read your words. It is because your words are confusing. Many people would understand the IR LED detector if they had some clear explanation, but what you posted will lead most people to arrive at the wrong idea for how your IR LED detector works.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
yes, it's impossible replicate something that way... the key factors in such stuff are two:

1. understanding the theory or principle of operation
2. understanding how device is made to clone it without understanding theory

But from posts like above... you can't understand theory, nor you can't understand just how the device is made... so it's impossible make a clone of it... unless you'll discover something yourself during the process.

Now... if posts will be just pictures and confuse explainations nobody ever will make a perfect clone of that things... and nobody will understand anything.

That's cause this whole Remote Sensing forum is so subject to humor and comics... people don't understand... people can't verify anything...

What they (LRL guys) expect then from that context ??? :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[detectoman]

the esceptics have configured the mind in one different mode, so cant understand these simple things of the comun builders makers of lrl, may be too we cant build easy eg. one complex detector how headhammer of carl

es cosa curiosa que los escepticos no pueden construir un simple lrl, del cual se dan suficientes detalles, y es debido a la configuracion mental de ellos y su dificultad para entender el pensamiento objetivo, ellos los escepticos son diferentes como lo son los creyentes y los ateos
los ateos no pueden comprender A DIOS
for example i of children, always think possible build one machine for everything, and i understand the posibilite of build one lrl, may be others are negative to these posibilites
these is razon for difficult, because the configuration of the mind of EE is different to liricmakers
theist and atheist, is same what EE and lrlst
one lr detection video isnt, convincent for one scpetic
how , he st thomas' incredule
may be
best regards dman

[Esteban]

Hi Esteban,
Your words are true. Your approach to building circuits for LRLs is not the same as most electronic engineers and experimenters would use. The people who use conventional methods will not have success with building your circuits because they are trying to design according to conventional designs, without considering the importance of the essential small signals that you look to capture. When Clondike Clad says "Not one worked", he is talking about other variations of LRL that he built from other people, not your designs. He does not have experience with using a radio receiver to monitor the audio frequency signal of an oscillator, (this method is not taught to experimenters, or in schools that teach electronics). I expect that people who cannot follow your instructions and build the circuitry as you described will not find success. The best they can do is to say the theories they were taught do not explain how your methods can work.

One problem with your previous posts is that you have not given a good description of the IR LED detector. I read your posts for IR metal detectors, and I see some confusing information. One example of confusing information is for the receiver. Here is what you previously explained about the receiver for the IR LED detector: "I think occurs a variation in height between the tone present in a receiver (this is filtrate as an interference in ANY sensitive system like a milivoltmeter). YOU DON'T NEED IR leds receiver. Also this filtrates in FM reveiver, and the signal of the target is directly in the beam or beams, no in the telescopic antenna, for example. But today maybe is not possible in this band (FM)".
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=58722&postcount=56

The words you posted give some information, but also makes a puzzle. What you posted tells us that the signal of the target is in the IR beam, not in a telescopic antenna, and can be heard on an FM receiver. But most portable FM radios use a telescopic antenna to receive their signals. This makes another puzzle of what to use for tuning the signal. When you say "today maybe is not possible in this band (FM)", This makes people think the FM will not work because you say maybe it is not possible, and the signal does not travel in the telescopic antenna. So they think maybe they must use AM for listening to the variation in the height of the tone that you say can be heard.

Also, you say there is a variation in the height between the tone present in the receiver. In English, this means the amplitude of the square wave is changing. But you later say that the phase is shifted. This is where you make the puzzle. Nobody knows what kind of change to look for... Amplitude or phase shift? Or maybe something else changed that Esteban did not tell us... maybe frequency? This makes some people think that a BFO detector will find the change, others think AM radio will detect the change of amplitude. Nobody knows what you have explained. This is not because they did not read your words. It is because your words are confusing. Many people would understand the IR LED detector if they had some clear explanation, but what you posted will lead most people to arrive at the wrong idea for how your IR LED detector works.

Best wishes,
J_P

Maybe is not possible in conventional FM radio, but you can alterate the coil adding or sustracting turns in the FM tune coil. So you can use 80 to 86 Mhz or 109 to 112... Mhz, in a site free of commercial emissions.

Why radio? Because you have here amplifier stage and RF that facilitate experimentation.

I use the FM antenna. I connect a telescopic antenna via coax cable to 30 pF input FM antenna. The shield is used.

But I see that the detection come directly in the beam, because the target is in the direction of the beam, not in the antenna, but maybe antenna play a rol.

Some changes exists in the audio when target is detected. With it I detect various times objects at size of copper wire 2 mm diam, 0.5 cm long! but near. A bullet of 5.5 mm compressed air riffle at 1.5 m!

Can temperature associated to these items the factor wich alterates the pattern?

In AM radio, any spark, any movement, bla, bla, produce spurious beeps, so is not a candidate.

[Esteban]

Maybe is not possible in conventional FM radio, but you can alterate the coil adding or sustracting turns in the FM tune coil. So you can use 80 to 86 Mhz or 109 to 112... Mhz, in a site free of commercial emissions.

Why radio? Because you have here amplifier stage and RF that facilitate experimentation.

I use the FM antenna. I connect a telescopic antenna via coax cable to 30 pF input FM antenna. The shield is used.

But I see that the detection come directly in the beam, because the target is in the direction of the beam, not in the antenna, but maybe antenna play a rol.

Some changes exists in the audio when target is detected. With it I detect various times objects at size of copper wire 2 mm diam, 0.5 cm long! but near. A bullet of 5.5 mm compressed air riffle at 1.5 m!

Can temperature associated to these items the factor wich alterates the pattern?

In AM radio, any spark, any movement, bla, bla, produce spurious beeps, so is not a candidate.

The red mean: part of these frequencies free of FM emissions.

[taliesin]

hi esteban do you take peyote by any chance ? ;)

[Pahom]

hi esteban do you take peyote by any chance ? ;)

you think that you tried cactus, I wonder what the other participants use then. If the registration increases every day?:lol: