“New for 2009 - The most advanced long range locator on the world”

[Morris_jo]

SPEKTRA



-Digital Frequency Synthesis: scans for gold, silver, copper, bronze, iron, lead, aluminium,diamonds, water, void & other elements. User can fine adjust the frequency at 1Hz steps.

-Digital Ground Balance: to analyse whatever ground conditions and automatically select and visualize the appropriate waveform to avoid false readings from minerals.

-Automatic Power On to the ground (A.P.O):
On SPECTRA there is no “POWER ON” key. SPECTRA makes a check to the ground conditions, and will turn on automatically only in good conductive ground, that absorbs the signal.SPECTRA needs not any probes, cables, filters, external battery: It is a compact design easy to handle.It detects to all directions. The signal transmits in a 360 degrees width, the user is not limited in one direction.


“GROUND BALANCING” function.

SPECTRA analyses both the soil mineral content & level of wetness,
the result appears as GROUND VALUE identification number, on a scale 00 to 99.This identification number informs the user of the ground type to be scanned.

The advertised long range locators on the market, are nothing else than frequency generators, simple constructions that are not specialized for ground use. :oh: :oh: :oh:

Soils have varying combinations of moisture and minerals.Operating a frequency generator, it’s signal is transmitted on conductive ground but will not penetrate at all on loose ground, or on high mineralized soils user receives false target indications.

The DGB - digital ground balancing feature, was developed for SPECTRA for reliable target indication,to maintain maximum range and stable operation regardless of the ground type.Even further the "SPECTRA track" system, completes the ground balancing accurately, by selecting variable waveforms on the transmit frequency to match the soil.

Select the metal mode and an on screen counter informs when the SPECTRA signal has put enough energy to the ground to start scanning the target.When the counter stops the electromagnetic field is strong enough
and the message “START SCANNING” alerts the operator to pinpoint the target,All other metallic objects in the area are eliminated from SPECTRA, and the desired element absorbed enough energy to make it visible.

whatever the ground SPECTRA can handle it, no matter the minerals”


SPECTRA features a worldwide cutting edge technology invention:
DFS “Digital Frequency Synthesis”. The only long range locator on the market with signal outputfrom a DSP microprocessor, which is fast enough to run 40 million instructions per second,performing corrections to frequency accuracy automatically.

Every metal has its own specific molecular frequency, up to present long range locators were unableto maintain signal stability enough to make visible only the desired target,faults where common practice from minerals and “ghost” targets due to solar and magnetic storms.



TO READ MORE , FOLLOW THIS LINK

http://www.golddetectors.gr/GOLDDETECTORS/GOLDDETECTORS%20EN.HTM



Any Comments , Suggestions , What do you think of this MFD ?

:shocked::shocked::shocked:

[Götz von Berlichingen]

Well, this LRL looks really nice, not the usual Homebrew Garbage.

The "Spectra Signal Receiver" is a pair of Gold plated, shiny
Dowsing Rods :lol:

No further Questions.

[Dell Winders]

Well, this LRL looks really nice, not the usual Homebrew Garbage.

The "Spectra Signal Receiver" is a pair of Gold plated, shiny
Dowsing Rods :lol:

No further Questions.

So? Who among you are smart enough to know that so called "Dowsing Rods" can be used in a physics application to detect, and meter Magnetic Fields?

It appears that electronic engineers through out the world have learned what I have been instructing, and demonstrating for nearly 30 years.

The precedent has been established. The Skeptics don't have a Scientific leg to stand on. All the narrow minded can do is huddle in Carl's little Scientific pretend group and moan, grumble, and complain, about other Electronics people who are intelligent enough to realize that, "WHAT HAS BEEN DONE, FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS, CAN BE DONE. ;) Dell

[Fred]

"WHAT HAS BEEN DONE, FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS, CAN BE DONE. ;) Dell
Yet again , i would really like to know
WHAT HAS BEEN DONE??
I can´t see any serious discovery seriously related.

[Götz von Berlichingen]

So? Who among you are smart enough to know that so called "Dowsing Rods" can be used in a physics application to detect, and meter Magnetic Fields?

It appears that electronic engineers through out the world have learned what I have been instructing, and demonstrating for nearly 30 years.

The precedent has been established. The Skeptics don't have a Scientific leg to stand on. All the narrow minded can do is huddle in Carl's little Scientific pretend group and moan, grumble, and complain, about other Electronics people who are intelligent enough to realize that, "WHAT HAS BEEN DONE, FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS, CAN BE DONE. ;) Dell

There are quite a few proven ways to detect and measure magnetic Fields.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetometer
The Dowsing Rods or L-Rods are not among them.

You are free to believe whatever you want -
and I can be as sceptic as I want.

[Carl-NC]

Any Comments , Suggestions , What do you think of this MFD ?

More dowsing rod nonsense.

[Dell Winders]

Do you reckon it's another Electronics engineer's Scam to make a fast buck? You probably noticed that Carl's occupation, seems to be fraught with electronics people using their credentials to deceive, and rip off trusting consumers with Dowsing Rods.

Since it's impossible for the electronics people designing, manufacturing and selling MFD products to know something about physics that you don't know, and Carl, has proven beyond the shadow of doubt, that a pair of hand held antenna Rods will not detect a magnetic "field", I think Carl, and his Skeptic society cronies, should focus their public attacks on Electronics people. Name them by names, mock them, tell lies about them, make stupid inferences and jokes, try hard to ruin their reputations, and scheme and conspire to put them out of business, without apology.

Least Carl, brands himself a hypocrite for focusing all earlier attacks for 7 years, only on an uneducated Kentucky Hillbilly, with no electronic credentials.

Naw, thats not going to happen from a hippocrite with a giant ego, caught up in the self serving lies of a Skeptic agenda. Right? Dell

[Theseus]

Power Module -- This unit's purpose is to power the Antenna Rods. This way the system is not self-potential. By increasing user bio-energy, the power module permits everyone to be a successful user. Power module... power the antenna rods.... increasing user bio-energy....

Yeah, sure; that's really cutting edge electronics technology isn't it!

What a laugh. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I know a guy who used to wrestle alligators, and didn't know one end of a potentiometer from the other (and still doesn't) - yet he was smart enough to connect a do-nothing little box between two dowsing rods, and sold it to the fools that would buy it, telling them it had nothing at all to do with dowsing and everything to do with electronics.

Now here we are, decades later, and some company(?) connects a power module between two ordinary L-rods and claims it's not dowsing.

Sorry, guys... but What Has Been Done... Has Already Been Done! It didn't work THEN, and it Does Not Work Now!

It's still just dowsing and it's still on a par with throwing Lawn Darts into the air, and if they don't hit you in the head, you can dig where they land, and who knows what you will find. :D

[Dell Winders]

It's still just dowsing and it's still on a par with throwing Lawn Darts into the air, and if they don't hit you in the head, you can dig where they land, and who knows what you will find.

It sounds like you tried it, and did get hit in the head.


Power module... power the antenna rods.... increasing user bio-energy....

Yeah, sure; that's really cutting edge electronics technology isn't it!

Theseus, your logix is a bit demented. How does a power module, power antenna rods by boosting bio energy?

I can understand the logic of using an antenna power booster to increase reception, but how does that increase Bio Energy?

There are a lot of drinks on the market that claim to increase Bio Energy.

Did you drink one contaminated with Loco Weed? Dell

[Theseus]

It sounds like you tried it, and did get hit in the head.

Theseus, your logix is a bit demented. How does a power module, power antenna rods by boosting bio energy?

I can understand the logic of using an antenna power booster to increase reception, but how does that increase Bio Energy?

There are a lot of drinks on the market that claim to increase Bio Energy.

Did you drink one contaminated with Loco Weed? Dell

If you would just take a little time to read more, and less time flying off the handle with your Size 13 firmly in your mouth... trying to put down the "truth-sayers", you would have noted that the QUOTE in my original posting was directly from the site, which is the subject of this thread. It's not something I said, rather it is a claim from the mfgr.

I was merely pointing out that it was nothing new, since you tried to capitalize on that phony idea many decades ago.

Please, Dell, if you are going to drop random postings into a thread - at least try to have them somewhat follow the train of thought. :nono:

I know that's asking a lot. :lol:

[J_Player]

So? Who among you are smart enough to know that so called "Dowsing Rods" can be used in a physics application to detect, and meter Magnetic Fields?

It appears that electronic engineers through out the world have learned what I have been instructing, and demonstrating for nearly 30 years.

The precedent has been established. The Skeptics don't have a Scientific leg to stand on. All the narrow minded can do is huddle in Carl's little Scientific pretend group and moan, grumble, and complain, about other Electronics people who are intelligent enough to realize that, "WHAT HAS BEEN DONE, FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS, CAN BE DONE. ;) Dell Hi Dell,
I am a skeptic of the items you sell on your website. This is not because I am a smart scientist. Actually, I am not very smart. I only know the value of a dollar.

Now I hear you criticizing the engineers and scientists on in this forum who are skeptical because they don't believe dowsing rods with electronics connected will find treasure. --- And you are also saying that other [non-skeptic] electronic engineers through out the world have learned what you have been instructing, and demonstrating for nearly 30 years.

Well these are real fine words. But do they mean anything?
As I said, I am not very smart, but I can usually smell a rip-off before I get burned.

So here is my question:

On your website, you sell long range detecting apparatus, which I see depicted to find US dollars hidden inside a house. Why do you refuse to demonstrate this same gizmoe actually doing what you have it depicted to do? If you have been instructing, and demonstrating long range treasure locators for nearly 30 years, then surely you can demonstrate your own product doing what you say it has done.

After all the years I have been reading your diatribe on this forum, I still have not heard anything that makes any scientific sense from you, nor have I seen anything substantial that shows you have any working products. Sure, we hear stories of your glory in the past.... but nearly every one of those stories is tainted except for the celebrity and animal-handling stories.

So why is it impossible for you to show just one of your products doing what it is supposed to do, and end all the debates. Show all the people who you call scientific pretenders that your X-scan really can find dollar bills hidden in a house right in front of them!

Is it possible that your X-scan cannot do as you depict it to do on your website? :eek:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

If you would just take a little time to read more, and less time flying off the handle with your Size 13 firmly in your mouth... trying to put down the "truth-sayers", you would have noted that the QUOTE in my original posting was directly from the site, which is the subject of this thread. It's not something I said, rather it is a claim from the mfgr

Yep, I see the subject of this thread is the new Spekra, the most advanced LRL in the world, and the poster asking for comments, and then emphasis was on Gold Plated L rods, which I replied to.

It seems you are the only one posting on the subject of...
Power module... power the antenna rods.... increasing user bio-energy.... which I replied to.

If you didn't want a reply, you should state that in your post. Dell

[Theseus]

Yep, I see the subject of this thread is the new Spekra, the most advanced LRL in the world, and the poster asking for comments, and then emphasis was on Gold Plated L rods, which I replied to.

It seems you are the only one posting on the subject of...
which I replied to.

If you didn't want a reply, you should state that in your post. Dell

The quote about the "add-on" power module is directly from their website, so it is directly related to the subject of this thread.

Did you even go to their site and read some of their advertising before you started your diatribe in this thread. Maybe it would be a good idea if you did. :nono: :nono:

:rolleyes:

Also, it will be especially interesting to read your reply to J_P, and the questions he has directed towards you.

[Dell Winders]

The advertised long range locators on the market, are nothing else than frequency generators, simple constructions that are not specialized for ground use.

COMMENT:
A part of this appears to be an unfounded claim. There is Electroscope, and Mineoro, and others whose powered electronics may generate frequencies unrelated to its function, but are not categorized as Frequency Generators. Of course, they are not specialized for Ground use, is true.

A lot of Spektra's emphasis is placed on Transmitting it's signals through the ground. Personally, I think broadcasting signals through the air is a better media to use, but my own simple Frequency Discriminator can be used either way. Through the air is what I suggest until you are near the target.

Nothing seems to be stated on Spektra's performance, or limitations or what it actually does, so I am left wondering how all the electronic gimmickry. is going to benefit the Treasure Hunter, in the search for buried, or sunken treasure? Dell

[Dell Winders]

So here is my question:

On your website, you sell long range detecting apparatus, which I see depicted to find US dollars hidden inside a house. Why do you refuse to demonstrate this same gizmoe actually doing what you have it depicted to do? If you have been instructing, and demonstrating long range treasure locators for nearly 30 years, then surely you can demonstrate your own product doing what you say it has done.

Jp,what is there to say? The X-Scan is sold as "Experimental" and folks are free to test it on any thing , and any way they wish. They are also free to comment on it if they wish.

I appreciate and respect customer feedback, good, or bad. Dell

Message: From GLENN BISHOP (Kentucky) 8/12/03
Dell, you have created a money monster machine, I have tried the x scan on currency on different locations and circumstances and weather conditions and it has been right on on all tries, I hid a $1 in two different places and when Sandy came in I had her to try to locate it and it took her about 15 min to locate both of them. later that night George Thompson, Sandy's son came in and I had him look for it using the x scan and in about 10 min he had located both targets, the next morning when Cindy came in to work I had her to look for them using the x scan and in about 3 or 4 min she had located both targets, and the amazing thing about it is she had never used any kind of LRL or MFD

[Theseus]

Giving away (or greatly discounted) "paint-roller handle treasure finders" in return for a glowing testimonial can hardly be considered respectful feedback.

Not to mention the fact, Glenn's test was no where near a double-blind protocol. :frown:

Why don't you submit your contraption to a real d-b test, conducted by an outside party who has nothing to gain (or lose) by giving an honest report?

:D

[Dell Winders]

Like I say, the X-Scan, is sold as experimental. Customers pay their money and are entitled to test any way they wish. Dell

[Theseus]

Like I say, the X-Scan, is sold as experimental. Customers pay their money and are entitled to test any way they wish. Dell

I guess you figure that if you apply the word "experimental" to your paint-roller handle contraption, that act alone somehow exempts you from the law of criminal intent by fraud through willful deception. It does not. :nono:

If it is "really" in the stages of a beta test (ie. experimental), then there should be NO cost to those who are wasting their time (and in this case their money) doing your research work for you. In fact, you should be giving them away (FREE), in return for honest feedback!

Once the beta tests are completed, and you can prove through substantiated d-b testing, the device will actually do what you claim (or claim through inference) - then and only then might you be able to legally sell the item as a successful locating device. As it stands today, it performs no better than a bent piece of coat-hanger wire, or tossing lawn darts in the air and then digging a hole where they land. 8)

[Esteban]

Hi Dell

You can use this kind of piece, you found on motor of computer or old VCR, etc.

[J_Player]

Jp,what is there to say? The X-Scan is sold as "Experimental" and folks are free to test it on any thing , and any way they wish. They are also free to comment on it if they wish.Hi Dell,
I cannot find anywhere on your page where it says the X-SCAN is experimental. However, I see where you ask people to Beta test this unit under their own operating conditions. This would imply that it is not ready for public release, as in an Alpha model. Thus, there may be an implication that it is experimental, even though there is nowhere on your page that states it is sold as an experimental model.

Now if we carefully read what you posted on your website, we will see these words you printed:
"The X-SCAN is the best Discrimination I have ever used for locating the combined ingredient of elements contained in paper currency or pharmaceuticals."

So tell us... what convinced you the X-SCAN was the best discrimination you have ever used for finding the combined ingredinets contained in paper currency or pharmaceuticals? Did you find that it discriminated these items more often than other LRLs? If so what were the percentages that the X-SCAN outperformed the competing models? How many tests did you conduct, and what were the circumstances of the test?

Will the X-SCAN locate a pill hidden under one of 10 paper cups when another pill from the same bottle is placed in the sample chamber of the Dell rod included in the combo?

Can you demonstrate the X_Scan discriminating paper currency and pharmaceuticals in front of us so we can see it actually working?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

Are you coming to central Florida? Dell

[Geo]

SPEKTRA




-Digital Frequency Synthesis: scans for gold, silver, copper, bronze, iron, lead, aluminium,diamonds, water, void & other elements. User can fine adjust the frequency at 1Hz steps.

-Digital Ground Balance: to analyse whatever ground conditions and automatically select and visualize the appropriate waveform to avoid false readings from minerals.


“GROUND BALANCING” function.

SPECTRA analyses both the soil mineral content & level of wetness,
the result appears as GROUND VALUE identification number, on a scale 00 to 99.This identification number informs the user of the ground type to be scanned.

The DGB - digital ground balancing feature, was developed for SPECTRA for reliable target indication,to maintain maximum range and stable operation regardless of the ground type.Even further the "SPECTRA track" system, completes the ground balancing accurately, by selecting variable waveforms on the transmit frequency to match the soil.


:shocked::shocked::shocked:

It is a simple and expensive generator. No Ground balance :frown::frown:
It has a inner timer so at first 2...3 minutes it display ground scaning, but it give the desired frequency at the probes. It only writes "Ground balance", nothing else :(:(
With some words... "Very expensive generator for its ability"

Regards:)

[J_Player]

Are you coming to central Florida? Dell No, I am sitting in front of my computer looking to see if I can read answers to these questions typed in the forum:
So tell us... what convinced you the X-SCAN was the best discrimination you have ever used for finding the combined ingredients contained in paper currency or pharmaceuticals? Did you find that it discriminated these items more often than other LRLs? If so what were the percentages that the X-SCAN outperformed the competing models? How many tests did you conduct, and what were the circumstances of the test?

Will the X-SCAN locate a pill hidden under one of 10 paper cups when another pill from the same bottle is placed in the sample chamber of the Dell rod included in the combo?

Can you demonstrate the X_Scan discriminating paper currency and pharmaceuticals in front of us so we can see it actually working?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

Can you demonstrate the X_Scan discriminating paper currency and pharmaceuticals in front of us so we can see it actually working?

Come to Central Florida, I will teach you how to use the Rods and trace a target.

Unknown to you, I will bury a target, and place a target sample in the X-Scan chamber.

You will have the opportunity to walk over the property for as long as you wish and guess where the target is buried.

Then you can turn on the X-Scan, wait a couple of minutes, I'll hand you the DellRod, and walk away. You can search, and find the target yourself.

When you have marked the location(s) you can compare your guessing ability with the X-Scan locations.

This is the manner in which I give demonstrations to everyone.

Are you coming to central Florida for a demonstration? Dell

[J_Player]

Come to Central Florida, I will teach you how to use the Rods and trace a target.

Unknown to you, I will bury a target, and place a target sample in the X-Scan chamber.

You will have the opportunity to walk over the property for as long as you wish and guess where the target is buried.

Then you can turn on the X-Scan, wait a couple of minutes, I'll hand you the DellRod, and walk away. You can search, and find the target yourself.

When you have marked the location(s) you can compare your guessing ability with the X-Scan locations.

This is the manner in which I give demonstrations to everyone.

Are you coming to central Florida for a demonstration? Dell Hi Dell,
This sounds like an interesting test. It certainly is not a double blind test, but it may have some value. For example, consider a treasure hunter who thinks there is a treasure nearby in a 200 acre area. Maybe this would give him a better chance than just guessing where it might be before start digging holes. If your LRLs can lead you to within a 20 foot radius of a buried treasure or less, then this could be helpful in treasure hunting. The key word is IF, and also, how reliable it will be in locating the desired kind of treasure, vs trash. The only way to find out is to try it out like you said.

Unfortunately, I am not coming to Central Florida any time soon. But if you happen to be visiting Southern California anywhere between Ventura and the Mexican border, send me a PM and I will be happy to meet with you try it out, then post a professional web page with photos and videos of the testing, and links to all the major treasure forums including this one. If I am impressed with the results, I may even order a list of Omnitron products.

Perhaps there are other readers of this forum who are able to visit Central Florida and see if your LRLs work for them now. :)

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

Why don't you build your own Frequency Discriminator? An inexpensive frequency generator, and a pair of Dowsing rods is all it takes. You can probably do that for under 50 bucks. Even a $3 transistor radio will work. At the one Treasure show I attended I showed folks how to build their own Frequency Discriminator, for under $20 and 2 hours time.

If there is any secret to it, it's learning to allow the rod(s) to respond to a physics application, and don't override the natural reaction with a mind/muscle ideomotor response. This usually requires practice to mastered, and an understanding that a physics application has limitations that have to be recognized, and accepted accordingly.

The electronics people have been bamboozling,and swindling gullible consumers out of millions for years, with bells & whistles, and advanced technology claims that their electronic circuit is farther advanced, and better than the other. But most of them are using the hand held Antenna Rods, which can also be used as Mental, meta-physical tools with the stigma of Dowsing attached.

You guys crying skeptic on the forums have done an excellent job of making your high tech electronic friends wealthy in the LRL industry, by bashing and ridding the industry of low priced competition such as myself.

The electronics in the LRL have a purpose, but are of lesser importance, unless you are building an electronic receiver. Learning to use, and correctly interpreting the reactions of the Rods, is key important to having success with present Locators.

It's been my experience that electronics people won't believe anything works unless they can complicate it. Personally, I think the arm chair idiot's paper cup tests to gather data are Stupid gimmickry, and prove nothing. True field tests, successes, and failures provide usable information and scientific data.

Unless it is the intent of the electronics people to continue ripping off people with electronic jargon, exaggerated, and false advertising claims, and using so called skeptics to bash low priced competition, my advise is, "keep it simple, stupid". Learn to use the Rod(s) like your electronic friends have, and you too may be on to something that will contribute to future development.

Trying to pi$$ people off with egotistic arrogance, and intellectual ignorance hasn't carried this forum very far. Dell

[Qiaozhi]

Why don't you build your own Frequency Discriminator? An inexpensive frequency generator, and a pair of Dowsing rods is all it takes. You can probably do that for under 50 bucks. Even a $3 transistor radio will work. At the one Treasure show I attended I showed folks how to build their own Frequency Discriminator, for under $20 and 2 hours time.

If there is any secret to it, it's learning to allow the rod(s) to respond to a physics application, and don't override the natural reaction with a mind/muscle ideomotor response. This usually requires practice to mastered, and an understanding that a physics application has limitations that have to be recognized, and accepted accordingly.

The electronics people have been bamboozling,and swindling gullible consumers out of millions for years, with bells & whistles, and advanced technology claims that their electronic circuit is farther advanced, and better than the other. But most of them are using the hand held Antenna Rods, which can also be used as Mental, meta-physical tools with the stigma of Dowsing attached.

You guys crying skeptic on the forums have done an excellent job of making your high tech electronic friends wealthy in the LRL industry, by bashing and ridding the industry of low priced competition such as myself.

The electronics in the LRL have a purpose, but are of lesser importance, unless you are building an electronic receiver. Learning to use, and correctly interpreting the reactions of the Rods, is key important to having success with present Locators.

It's been my experience that electronics people won't believe anything works unless they can complicate it. Personally, I think the arm chair idiot's paper cup tests to gather data are Stupid gimmickry, and prove nothing. True field tests, successes, and failures provide usable information and scientific data.

Unless it is the intent of the electronics people to continue ripping off people with electronic jargon, exaggerated, and false advertising claims, and using so called skeptics to bash low priced competition, my advise is, "keep it simple, stupid". Learn to use the Rod(s) like your electronic friends have, and you too may be on to something that will contribute to future development.

Trying to pi$$ people off with egotistic arrogance, and intellectual ignorance hasn't carried this forum very far. Dell
Well ... I've read this diatribe twice, and it still doesn't make any sense.

What on Earth is meant by "respond to a physics application"? Your rant here is just gobbledygook.

Perhaps you should try stringing the words effortlessly so that they formulate a nonsensical concatenated sequence of syncopated verbage. :rolleyes:

[Dell Winders]

:D I assume this is your intellectual way of saying that Copper & Brass Rods sometimes used for Dowsing, cannot be used as an application of physics??

Or, perhaps you are defending electronics people who are using this antenna method, their electronic credentials, and false advertising claims to scam unsuspecting consumers out of millions each year by fooling them into believing they are getting what they pay for when they get an LRL product manufactured by an Electronics engineer, or tech? Dell

[Qiaozhi]

:D I assume this is your intellectual way of saying that Copper & Brass Rods sometimes used for Dowsing, cannot be used as an application of physics?? Dell
You mean "psychology" not "physics".

[J_Player]

Why don't you build your own Frequency Discriminator? An inexpensive frequency generator, and a pair of Dowsing rods is all it takes. You can probably do that for under 50 bucks. Even a $3 transistor radio will work. At the one Treasure show I attended I showed folks how to build their own Frequency Discriminator, for under $20 and 2 hours time.Hi Dell,
The reason I don't build a frequency generator is because of the secret you refer to:If there is any secret to it, it's learning to allow the rod(s) to respond to a physics application, and don't override the natural reaction with a mind/muscle ideomotor response. This usually requires practice to mastered, and an understanding that a physics application has limitations that have to be recognized, and accepted accordingly.For one, I don't believe there is any physics application involved, nor do I think ideamotor response has anything to do with locating treasure. Keeping in mind that what I believe is irrelevant as long as I hold the LRL and let it work, all my previous attempts to allow rods to respond were fruitless for locating anything. Therefore, I expect to have a 100% failure rate, based on previous experience. The only way this might change is if someone were to give live instructions on the proper way to handle a LRL. Unless this happens, then I expect to have continued 100% failure rate, and any building of apparatus is wasted time. This is the reason I prefer to let the LRL experts demonstrate how to make them work live and in person. When I see them work, then I will be ready to be trained by a successful operator of an LRL to become proficient. The fact is I would prefer to buy a working machine than to build one of my own.

Your opinion of the electronics industry is sadly mistaken:
The electronics people have been bamboozling,and swindling gullible consumers out of millions for years, with bells & whistles, and advanced technology claims that their electronic circuit is farther advanced, and better than the other. But most of them are using the hand held Antenna Rods, which can also be used as Mental, meta-physical tools with the stigma of Dowsing attached.

You guys crying skeptic on the forums have done an excellent job of making your high tech electronic friends wealthy in the LRL industry, by bashing and ridding the industry of low priced competition such as myself.

The electronics in the LRL have a purpose, but are of lesser importance, unless you are building an electronic receiver. Learning to use, and correctly interpreting the reactions of the Rods, is key important to having success with present Locators.

It's been my experience that electronics people won't believe anything works unless they can complicate it. Personally, I think the arm chair idiot's paper cup tests to gather data are Stupid gimmickry, and prove nothing. True field tests, successes, and failures provide usable information and scientific data.

Unless it is the intent of the electronics people to continue ripping off people with electronic jargon, exaggerated, and false advertising claims, and using so called skeptics to bash low priced competition, my advise is, "keep it simple, stupid". Learn to use the Rod(s) like your electronic friends have, and you too may be on to something that will contribute to future development.

Trying to pi$$ people off with egotistic arrogance, and intellectual ignorance hasn't carried this forum very far. DellFrom my point of view, what you view as egotistic arrogance is in reality righteous indignation. The electronic engineers who post in the Geotech forums are for the most part exceptionally bright engineers who are well equipped to recognize bogus electronic circuits and fake theories that were simply made up in order to convince the ignorant that a particular contraption is so advanced that only a rocket scientist would be able to understand how it works. The real scientific pretenders are people who make up this crap about swivel rods with electronic trash connected to it in hopes that ignorant customers will believe it is the latest and greatest from the scientific world.

You are sadly mistaken if you think Carl, Qiaozi, Max, Ivconic, Geo, and dozens of others who post in this forum are not among the top electronic engineers to be found in the treasure hunting world.

You think I am wrong?
Look at what Geo posted just a few posts above this post. In o few lines, he totally de-bunked the Spektra, detailing how it uses a fake ground balance which is simply a timer flashing a message on the screen until the timer runs out. Then it pretends to be switching out of the ground balance mode and start generating a frequency. Geo is no scientific pretender. The person who made the Spectra is. In fact it is fraud to advertise an electronic device as automatic ground balancing when it does not perform any ground balancing:
It is a simple and expensive generator. No Ground balance :frown::frown:
It has a inner timer so at first 2...3 minutes it display ground scaning, but it give the desired frequency at the probes. It only writes "Ground balance", nothing else :(:(
With some words... "Very expensive generator for its ability"

When these engineers are pointing out bad electronics and fradulent claims, this does not brand them as egotistical or arrogant. Any self-respecting person would be indignant over discovering such a fraud, and we are fortunate to have them looking out for the rest of us who don't have the time or perhaps not the ability to examine the circuits and determine they are fake.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

You mean "psychology" not "physics".

Dell believes if he uses the word "physics" enough times in relation to his do-nothing ideomotor-based contraptions, that eventually some small portion of his targeted "gullible" audience will fall for his ruse. He knows very well that real physics are not involved, but he must maintain the use of the word in order to keep up the scam. He's been doing it for decades now. ;)

[Fred]

Dell, do you realise what you say :lol: ? :

Why don't you build your own Frequency Discriminator? An inexpensive frequency generator, and a pair of Dowsing rods is all it takes. You can probably do that for under 50 bucks. (...) I showed folks how to build their own Frequency Discriminator, for under $20 and 2 hours time.
Then:

You guys crying skeptic on the forums have done an excellent job of making your high tech electronic friends wealthy in the LRL industry, by bashing and ridding the industry of low priced competition such as myself.
BUT :
PRO-4 FREQUENCY DISCRIMINATOR, Price $950

:shocked:

[Dell Winders]

Then:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dell Winders
You guys crying skeptic on the forums have done an excellent job of making your high tech electronic friends wealthy in the LRL industry, by bashing and ridding the industry of low priced competition such as myself.
BUT :
PRO-4 FREQUENCY DISCRIMINATOR, Price $950

Comparable in utility to electronic engineers/techs versions selling for $3000 to $22,000. All using antenna Rod(s) in a physics application. Do these educated folks with electronic degrees know something about physics you don't? Or, are they running a profiteering scam to rip off trusting consumers with mis-leading advertising, and ridiculous prices? You tell me?

Another example: A simple Non electronic discrimination module. Dell's price $75. A comparable tech version $1,800, with a no refund policy.

I can see why you protect your greedy electronic friends, and try to put me out of business. "Birds of a feather flock together" Dell

[Morris_jo]

More dowsing rod nonsense.


Why all MFD devices are scam ? Is The principle does`t belong to science ?

[Fred]

Another example: A simple Non electronic discrimination module. Dell's price $75. A comparable tech version $1,800, with a no refund policy.

There is big scammers and smaller ones... :p

[Carl-NC]

Comparable in utility to electronic engineers/techs versions selling for $3000 to $22,000. All using antenna Rod(s) in a physics application. Do these educated folks with electronic degrees know something about physics you don't?

Which manufacturer of LRLs has a true degreed electronic engineer?

Or, are they running a profiteering scam to rip off trusting consumers with mis-leading advertising, and ridiculous prices?

"PRO-4 FREQUENCY DISCRIMINATOR, Price $950"

Dell, your LRL garbage cost over twice as much as Ranger-Tell's LRL garbage. Does that mean, relative to him, you're ripping people off with ridiculous prices?

I can see why you protect your greedy electronic friends, and try to put me out of business.

Take a look at my LRL reports page... exactly who am I trying to protect?

- Carl

[Carl-NC]

Why all MFD devices are scam ? Is The principle does`t belong to science ?

Yes, ALL MFD devices are "non-science" nonsense.

[Rudy]

Another example: A simple Non electronic discrimination module. Dell's price $75. A comparable tech version $1,800, with a no refund policy.


Dell, you are a man with scruples. You are satisfied with a $75 rip off, rather than going for $1,800. You are to be commended.

[Dell Winders]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dell Winders
Comparable in utility to electronic engineers/techs versions selling for $3000 to $22,000. All using antenna Rod(s) in a physics application. Do these educated folks with electronic degrees know something about physics you don't?
Which manufacturer of LRLs has a true degreed electronic engineer?

Quote:
Or, are they running a profiteering scam to rip off trusting consumers with mis-leading advertising, and ridiculous prices?
"PRO-4 FREQUENCY DISCRIMINATOR, Price $950"

Dell, your LRL garbage cost over twice as much as Ranger-Tell's LRL garbage. Does that mean, relative to him, you're ripping people off with ridiculous prices?

Quote:
I can see why you protect your greedy electronic friends, and try to put me out of business.
Take a look at my LRL reports page... exactly who am I trying to protect?

- Carl

Uh oh! Looks like a scientific pretender's ego has been stepped on. Carl, I don't see any replies I made that were to your posts.

For 7 years I was the ONLY one you attacked on forums all over the internet to put me out of business. I'm still here. Still trying to compete honestly with Electronic engineers/ techs manufacturing LRL, and duping consumers with their credentials, and fancy electronics to justify charging gullible consumers rip off prices . I'm still here. Get over it!

Your attacks on me have supported the sales of folks in the Electronics industry who have made millions manufacturing LRL's. So back off your high horse, Carl. To me you are just a sneaky, lieing, Charlatan, who has tried to ruin the reputation, and life of another human being. Dell

[Qiaozhi]

Uh oh! Looks like a scientific pretender ego has been stepped on. Carl, I don't see any replies I made that were to your posts.

For 7 years I was the ONLY one you attacked and tried to put out of business. I'm still here. Get used to it. Dell

Like a bad ...

[J_Player]

Most of us are smart enough to recognize the value of a double blind test. It is virtually impossible for anyone to use trickery or to
tamper with the results. Whatever results are returned from the testing then can be tallied and run through a statistical analysis to
determine the efficiency of the device testsed. But even if the kind of testing does not lend itself to statistical analysis, double
blind is still the best way to assure unbiased and accurate testing methodology.

I suppose most of the metal detectors sold can pass a double blind test. We may find that some of them will have shorter range than
advertised, or discrimination properties that are not as good as advertised. But most all of them will prove to be useful tools. In the
case of LRLs, we see another scenario. No manufacturer has ever allowed a public double blind test of his LRL products. Even more
curious, no owner of an LRL has submitted their LRL to a public double blind test. This raises serious questions to whether they work or
not. So do they or don't they work?

We hear occasional anecdotal stories about how great treasures were found with an LRL, and other anecdotes about which LRL performs
better than another. But never a test with recorded results that show the performance values like we do for metal detectors. And never
test results from double blind testing. This LRL story-telling is hardly convincing considering the the hard facts that we've learned
about LRLs. For example, many LRLs contain rods with or without attached electronics that are supposed to point in the direction of the
target, and no known principles of electronics or physics to explain why it should do that. Also no LRL can be demonstrated to find a
target that is recovered in a test. So what do we have? A contraption that has no valid working principle, and no valid evidence of
working. Just stories by people who will not demonstrate it working to prove what they say is true.

This is not a very convincing scenario for LRLs.

Consider the conventional metal detectors: The working principles of search coils are well known and substantiated by engineers and
physicists. The manufacturers of metal detectors as well as owners are usually happy to demonstrate them working right in front of you.
And I doubt anyone with a metal detector would mind participating in a double blind test.

Did you ever wonder why we have this scenario with LRLs, but not conventional metal detectors?
The skeptics seem to know the answer: Because LRLs don't work.
They are just another version of a bogus contraption to get peoples money.
The added electronics are simply there as sales gimmicks to fool people into thinking their version is more high-tech than a competitor.

But what about Dell Winders?
Dell has offered a demonstration where you get to try it out - a major exception to the rule maintained by most LRL manufacturers.
Let's assume that Dell is completely ignorant of real physics and electronics, and is incapable of explaining correctly how his LRLs work or don't work. Let's also suppose that none of the Omnitron products can pass a double blind test. His LRLs are functionally the same as anyone else's LRLs with one exception: He is willing to show you how well it works for yourself before you buy one. No double-blind test, but you get to try it out first to see if it works for you. This is the back door to testing. If there is no valid working principle, and no valid evidence that it works, then there is one last resort to see if it has value -- try it out and see for yourself.

According to Dell, it takes practice. Thus, someone untrained would have a difficult time getting it to work. But Dell offered to demonstrate it and show you how to use it. You are not testing to see if it can find a hidden target in one of 10 places -- you are testing to see if you can use it to find a target that someone else hides in a field. Suppose you discover you can find the target 90% of the time within 14 feet of the target?
Would you care if it passes Carl's double blind test?
Would you care if it has do-nothing electronics attached?
And then if it doesn't work, you didn't rely on guessing or theories to figure it out.... you will know from first hand experience.

If I was in Central Florida, I would certainly give it a try, just to see if it really works. If I was impressed with the results, I would place my order on the spot.

Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

For 7 years I was the ONLY one you attacked on forums all over the internet to put me out of business. I'm still here. Still trying to compete honestly with Electronic engineers/ techs manufacturing LRL, and duping consumers with their credentials, and fancy electronics to justify charging gullible consumers rip off prices . I'm still here. Get over it!

Your attacks on me have supported the sales of folks in the Electronics industry who have made millions manufacturing LRL's. So back off your high horse, Carl. To me you are just a sneaky, lieing, Charlatan, who has tried to ruin the reputation, and life of another human being. Dell

Hey Dell, you are still here (hope for many years to come). So does RT, Afilani's Electroscope, Mineoro, Fitzgeralds, OKM, etc.

In fact, I think everytime Carl states a particular LRL 'should' not work, he somehow creates an effect that misteriously help to add to the sales of these LRLs. It's like his verdict against them becomes at the same time a 'validation' they work! This is amazing. RT for instance has reached a mark of several thousands of users.

I believe many of LRL manufacturers have Carl as a good advertiser for them. Maybe they already pay him some comission.

I think Carl is much like the 'Charles Ponzi' of the 'Anti LRL Brigade'. Always emitting 'pearls' that really help LRL sales.

Like this one:
Which manufacturer of LRLs has a true degreed electronic engineer?

Frankly, to me this is a one more strong evidence that Carl not only is a LRL believer in disguise, but also has always dreamed about launching his own LRL manufacturing corp.
Well he has joined Whites... Hey, I believe now!

Carl, don't be jealous. People will buy your LRLs too!:lol:

[Theseus]

.......

According to Dell, it takes practice. Thus, someone untrained would have a difficult time getting it to work. But Dell offered to demonstrate it and show you how to use it. You are not testing to see if it can find a hidden target in one of 10 places -- you are testing to see if you can use it to find a target that someone else hides in a field. Suppose you discover you can find the target 90% of the time within 14 feet of the target?
Would you care if it passes Carl's double blind test?
Would you care if it has do-nothing electronics attached?
And then if it doesn't work, you didn't rely on guessing or theories to figure it out.... you will know from first hand experience.

Best wishes,
J_P

Basically I agree with most of what you've said in the posting above.

Would just like to add a few additional thoughts.

It would seem to me that if a device could find a target 90% of the time, then by default it would ALSO be able to find a hidden target, in one of ten places 90% of the time. Thus, I see no problem with evaluating/testing the device according to a double-blind protocol.

Also, it is well known that informal demonstrations (devoid of d-b protocol) are typically skewed by all manner of information leaks; and are really worthless when it comes to serious evaluation procedures and techniques.

So...... to answer your questions:

Would you care if it passes Carl's double blind test?

My answer would have to be Yes, for the reasons stated above.

Would you care if it has do-nothing electronics attached?

Again, Yes. If the device is sold under certain theories and claims (real or inferred) whereby the operation and performance of the device is as a function of said electronic components, and the inclusion of said components are a part of the purchase price - then I would care if they are functioning per the claims and advertising.

Again, just my thoughts, and my answers to the questions posed. ;)

----------------------

Different topic.........

Further, I do not agree with the premise that if Carl (or other skeptics) point out the flaws and scams related to commercial LRL products, that somehow this act alone works in reverse, essentially validating the scam LRL products, and helps to increase their sales.

That thinking is pure BS and is not unlike another example of pure BS that is aimed at somehow putting your opponent at a psychological disadvantage. The example I'm thinking of is the golf star Tiger Woods. No matter how many strokes Tiger is behind the leaders, he will always respond to commentators with the same BS. That is.... he sees himself as in a perfect position, has done nothing wrong and is at the very top of his game. Which of course is nothing more than a total psych job, aimed directly at his opponents. (Sometimes it even works... but it did not work for him in this past Master's event.)

Actually, pointing out a scam device does in fact hurt future sales of it. Hundreds of emails, from people who are thankful they read about these scam LRL products, saving them from wasting their money on them; is proof enough. Not to mention the fact that Carl and other skeptics have suffered all manner of threats for what they have written. One would have to ask; Why threaten someone with possible law suits and other techniques of slander and abuse, if in fact their writings were actually furthering your sales. The simple answer is; you wouldn't. ;)

[J_Player]

It would seem to me that if a device could find a target 90% of the time, then by default it would ALSO be able to find a hidden target, in one of ten places 90% of the time. Thus, I see no problem with evaluating/testing the device according to a double-blind protocol.

Would you care if it passes Carl's double blind test?
My answer would have to be Yes, for the reasons stated above.

Would you care if it has do-nothing electronics attached?
Again, Yes. If the device is sold under certain theories and claims (real or inferred)Hi Theseus,
It appears you are not interested in locating a working treasure finding machine, but a machine that meets specifications that are stated or implied by subjecting the machine to DB testing.

The problem with using DB testing is that Dell did not offer to subject his LRL to DB testing. He offered to demonstrate it and to show me how to use it. As I previously stated, let's suppose none of the Omnitron products can pass a DB test, --- we can assume this is true because neither Dell or any other LRL manufacturer will submit their products for that test. But when we assume this is true, we are still not certain, because we haven't conducted a DB test to prove we are right. Suppose you ran a DB test and it passed? :eek:

Another assumption is "then by default it would ALSO find a hidden target in one of ten places 90% of the time."
There is no default in this case.... This is another assumption. How can you be sure that by marking 9 additional possible locations, you don't cause the LRL to stop working properly? My argument may sound silly, but there is no known principle of operation for any LRL I have seen advertised. So maybe it works on the principle of subconscious mind magic link to a man named Murphy who lives in the sky. And Murphy applies Murphy's law to any situation that looks like a valid test with choices of locations marked. Sure it's silly, but if it were true, then it would invalidate that double blind test with 10 locations. ...Then what about a few of the LRLs that require long-time buried gold? Do you suppose a 10-location test of fresh gold would invalidate that test?

It is my belief that Dell is not capable of explaining the working of any electronic device, and has no knowledge of physics other than what he can pick up from watching tv. I decided to disregard all of what he said about how LRLs work, because even if it were possible for an LRL to work, I don't believe he would be able to describe what makes it work. I think Dell assigned technical terms to things he observed, without knowing exactly what those technical terms mean. If there are any technical details involved with the working of an LRL, they would require a better knowledge of electronics and physics to describe what's really happening.

This is why I don't think Dell is intentionally misleading people to believe his electronics are performing secret rocket-science functions that are really do-nothing circuits like timers that simply flash messages on a screen. If a technically educated person was to find an LRL that works better than random, then he may be able to examine it and find some appropriate technical words to describe what is happening to cause the better than random performance.

A final thought: Suppose I open my LRL factory, and you send your $5000 for a guaranteed 90% accurate gold finding machine. When you open the box, you find a chicken with a paper clip attached to it's comb. After much hollering and calling to my factory, I tell you to try it out before you send it back. -- and you do. Suppose the chicken squawks incessantly every time you get near gold. You take the chicken to the ancient ruins and find about 400 lbs of gold artifacts. You go fishing and find a sunken ship with 2 tons of gold bullion. You have to leave the chicken at home when you go to the jewelry store because it won't stop squawking. Then you set up the double blind test and the chicken does not squawk at all it just wanders around pecking on the 10 location markers.

Would you send back the chicken and demand your $5000 back, or take the chicken for more treasure hunting?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Carl-NC]

Dell, I figured you'd just dodge my questions, and blame me as usual... can you not answer at least this one?

"Which manufacturer of LRLs has a true degreed electronic engineer?"

[Dell Winders]

Most of us are smart enough to recognize the value of a double blind test. It is virtually impossible for anyone to use trickery or to
tamper with the results. Whatever results are returned from the testing then can be tallied and run through a statistical analysis to
determine the efficiency of the device testsed. But even if the kind of testing does not lend itself to statistical analysis, double
blind is still the best way to assure unbiased and accurate testing methodology.

I suppose most of the metal detectors sold can pass a double blind test. We may find that some of them will have shorter range than
advertised, or discrimination properties that are not as good as advertised. But most all of them will prove to be useful tools. In the
case of LRLs, we see another scenario. No manufacturer has ever allowed a public double blind test of his LRL products. Even more
curious, no owner of an LRL has submitted their LRL to a public double blind test. This raises serious questions to whether they work or
not. So do they or don't they work?

We hear occasional anecdotal stories about how great treasures were found with an LRL, and other anecdotes about which LRL performs
better than another. But never a test with recorded results that show the performance values like we do for metal detectors. And never
test results from double blind testing. This LRL story-telling is hardly convincing considering the the hard facts that we've learned
about LRLs. For example, many LRLs contain rods with or without attached electronics that are supposed to point in the direction of the
target, and no known principles of electronics or physics to explain why it should do that. Also no LRL can be demonstrated to find a
target that is recovered in a test. So what do we have? A contraption that has no valid working principle, and no valid evidence of
working. Just stories by people who will not demonstrate it working to prove what they say is true.

This is not a very convincing scenario for LRLs.

Consider the conventional metal detectors: The working principles of search coils are well known and substantiated by engineers and
physicists. The manufacturers of metal detectors as well as owners are usually happy to demonstrate them working right in front of you.
And I doubt anyone with a metal detector would mind participating in a double blind test.

Did you ever wonder why we have this scenario with LRLs, but not conventional metal detectors?
The skeptics seem to know the answer: Because LRLs don't work.
They are just another version of a bogus contraption to get peoples money.
The added electronics are simply there as sales gimmicks to fool people into thinking their version is more high-tech than a competitor.

But what about Dell Winders?
Dell has offered a demonstration where you get to try it out - a major exception to the rule maintained by most LRL manufacturers.
Let's assume that Dell is completely ignorant of real physics and electronics, and is incapable of explaining correctly how his LRLs work or don't work. Let's also suppose that none of the Omnitron products can pass a double blind test. His LRLs are functionally the same as anyone else's LRLs with one exception: He is willing to show you how well it works for yourself before you buy one. No double-blind test, but you get to try it out first to see if it works for you. This is the back door to testing. If there is no valid working principle, and no valid evidence that it works, then there is one last resort to see if it has value -- try it out and see for yourself.

According to Dell, it takes practice. Thus, someone untrained would have a difficult time getting it to work. But Dell offered to demonstrate it and show you how to use it. You are not testing to see if it can find a hidden target in one of 10 places -- you are testing to see if you can use it to find a target that someone else hides in a field. Suppose you discover you can find the target 90% of the time within 14 feet of the target?
Would you care if it passes Carl's double blind test?
Would you care if it has do-nothing electronics attached?
And then if it doesn't work, you didn't rely on guessing or theories to figure it out.... you will know from first hand experience.

If I was in Central Florida, I would certainly give it a try, just to see if it really works. If I was impressed with the results, I would place my order on the spot.

Best wishes,
J_P

THIS IS DIFFICULT TO BELIEVE that after all these years, a loyal Skeptic on Carl Morland's, forum is suddenly speaking with rational logic. I am shocked,and impressed, but from past experience, I'm untrusting of the sincerity, and expecting there wil be a catch.

Anyway, Thank you JP, for this miracle moment.

I have my motive for inviting folks to test my products for themselves. It gives them the opportunity, to experience the conditions, and have an awareness of when the Rod(s) will react to the "field" of a target, and when they will not. It is of utmost importance to me, and to the customers success that they experience, and understand the physical limitations associated with using Rods, that are also used for Dowsing, when they are used in a physics application.

This problem applies to ALL MFD, Directional Locators, and LRL that utilize Hand Held Rod(s), or electronic receivers, to detect "field" of a signal line, or target.

You won't find any of the electronics people manufacturing these products and selling at outrageous prices, ripping off consumers, that are warning their customers of this problem. In fact, according to their advertising, there are no problems with their products. After all, they have electronic credentials, and utilizing the latest advance technology. Why should there be limitations to in the use of the Rod(s) Right?

Carl, and the Skeptics on this forum have fully supported their Electronic buddies who are making a fortune ripping off consumers, in the LRL industry, for years.

How? Well, according to Skeptics, a pair of hand held Rod(s) are not affected by physics, and that fluxuations, or changes of a magnetic "Field" can have any possible affect on hand held rods is, total nonsense. (err, scientifically speaking of course.) BS, and pure assumption at best.

It's spoken with authority by folks with Electronic credentials, and Scientific pretense, but without field tests, or evidence to substantiate.
It's an excellent example of the way Skeptics, using pretend Science to help their fellow electronic engineers, and Techs, rip off trusting consumers, cover up lies, and discredit those of lesser education.

How can you trust the logic of a person who's stated criteria for a Scientific evaluation is, If it looks to him like a duck, appears to walk like a duck, and seems to sound like duck, then it has to be a duck?

Without consideration of the possibility that even what appears to be an ugly Duck, can in reality, turn out to be a Swan. Dell

[J_Player]

How can you trust the logic of a person who's stated criteria for a Scientific evaluation is, If it looks to him like a duck, appears to walk like a duck, and seems to sound like duck, then it has to be a duck?Hi Dell,
The logic of a person using the "looks like a duck" principle is called inductive logic, developed by one of the most famous Greek philosophers of all time -- Aristotle. This kind of logic is indispensable in modern technology, and the basis for statistical analysis which sets the standards for electronic parts testing to see if you have a good batch or bad batch of parts for the rocket scientist to put in orbit, as well as millions of other applications in everyday life.

To clarify, double blind testing is field testing. When people refuse to subject their LRL to a double blind test, then we are left with using inductive logic --- Gee... not a single manufacturer will show their LRL doing what they say it will do in the field using a DB test, so it looks like they're trying to hide the fact that they don't work. If LRLs only cost $1.99 plus s&h, nobody would care. Throw it out if it doesn't work. But when people have to save and plan how they spend their money, then they want assurances that it will work. And refusing a DB test is not a very good assurance.

For the record, I am not anyone's loyal Skeptic. I gravitate toward ideas that make sense. If you see me agreeing more with Carl-NC than LRL promoters, it is because he makes more sense. In fact most of the engineers in this forum make more sense. This is what an engineer is trained to do --- figure out how things work and utilize them to their best advantage. I am skeptical for the same reasons most people are skeptical about spending large amounts of money for items that are described to work on nonsensical principles, and have no credible evidence that they work.

There is no catch to what I offered. If anyone wants to show me an LRL working, and show me how I can recover targets with it, then I will meet with them in Southern California and find targets in the field. For any LRL that works, I will post a professional web page with photos and videos, and links to all the major treasure hunting forums including this one. You will also see a post in this forum describing the event. If I am impressed with the results, I may even buy one for myself.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

"Trained",or perhaps brainwashed, appears to be the optimum word here to describe rationalizing, assumption, presumption, and irrelevance to truth, or fact, by Geotech skeptics.

I'm glad that I haven't read the electronic text books, that tell me what is possible, or impossible, to do.

Not knowing in advance what works, or doesn't, allows me the freedom to learn from my personal experience of trial & error, without bias, prejudice, or judgement ,and enjoy the benefit of knowing and practicing that what the skeptics say, can't be done, is neither fact, or truth in this case.

Thanks for the skeptics miracle moment of rational logic, and instance of common sense. Dell

[J_Player]

"Trained",or perhaps brainwashed, appears to be the optimum word here to describe rationalizing, assumption, presumption, and irrelevance to truth, or fact, by Geotech skeptics.Sure Dell,
Enter your LRLs in a double blind test in the field.
When you show your LRLs pass a double blind test, then I will stop assuming that they can't pass a double blind test.

Until the time comes when I see an LRL finding treasure live, I will continue to assume they can't find treasure.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Dell said; "I'm glad that I haven't read the electronic text books, that tell me what is possible, or impossible, to do.

Not knowing in advance what works, or doesn't, allows me the freedom to learn from my personal experience of trial & error...... "Every time you turn on your computer, or jump in your car/truck and motor off to the bank with someone's cash, or watch the space shuttle arrive or depart from your fair State - you should be THANKFUL that your reasoning and thinking is limited to only yourself and a very few individuals who by design or accident are completely devoid of a basic education.

It would be hard to imagine just how many technological advances we would be WITHOUT today, if everyone had to learn/discover things by trial and error. It's probably fair to say our advancements would no doubt be stuck at least in the early 1900s and more likely the middle 1800s; if that far.

Your persistence in putting down those with a basic, or even a higher education is really a very poor marketing tool for your do-nothing LRL contraptions. Think of the many years you've wasted pursuing that line of thinking. If you'd of spent an equal amount of time developing a device that would actually pass a d-b test, and succeeded, perhaps you could have followed a legitimate business career.
;)

[Carl-NC]

Carl, and the Skeptics on this forum have fully supported their Electronic buddies who are making a fortune ripping off consumers, in the LRL industry, for years.

How? Well, according to Skeptics, a pair of hand held Rod(s) are not affected by physics, and that fluxuations, or changes of a magnetic "Field" can have any possible affect on hand held rods is, total nonsense. (err, scientifically speaking of course.) BS, and pure assumption at best.

It's spoken with authority by folks with Electronic credentials, and Scientific pretense, but without field tests, or evidence to substantiate.
It's an excellent example of the way Skeptics, using pretend Science to help their fellow electronic engineers, and Techs, rip off trusting consumers, cover up lies, and discredit those of lesser education.


Dell, this doesn't even make sense. Can you explain exactly WHO we are trying to help? Names please!

While you're at it, please tell us, "Which manufacturer of LRLs has a true degreed electronic engineer?"

Fitzgerald used to tell me that he had an engineer working for him. I didn't believe him, of course. I recently got the chance to check out one of his few non-LRL products, the Maxi-Pulse PI detector. Besides being a poor performer, it looks like it was built by a 6-year-old. Like his LRLs, it's pretty obviously made by someone who doesn't know what they are doing.

- Carl

[J_Player]

THIS IS DIFFICULT TO BELIEVE that after all these years, a loyal Skeptic on Carl Morland's, forum is suddenly speaking with rational logic.Rational logic?
So, now Dell Winders is the expert on what is rational logic?
Now lemme see... If we use Dell's standards to judge what kind of logic is acceptable, then perhaps this is what we will find:

1. It helps me to sell Omnitron LRLs = Good, rational logic
2. It does not help me to sell Omnitron LRLs = Bad, irrational logic

Of course... bad, irrational logic is inspired by evil intent, with the purpose to single out Omnitron, and specifically to put Dell Winders out of business.

So how did Dell Winders become so wise as to become an authority on what is the best logic?
That's simple...
He didn't get any advanced education to bother him with the troublesome pain of passing tests, or learning electronics or physics, or even the systems of logic that are taught in universities and colleges. With the advantage of not abiding by the eternal torture of education, Dell is free to make up his own ideas about what logic works the best.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

It gives them the opportunity, to experience the conditions, and have an awareness of when the Rod(s) will react to the "field" of a target, and when they will not.
The simple answer is that the rods are not reacting to any "field" from a target, except in your mind. And "when they will not" is 100% of the time.

It is of utmost importance to me, and to the customers success that they experience, and understand the physical limitations associated with using Rods, that are also used for Dowsing, when they are used in a physics application.
Again - your statements do not make sense. What does "when they are used in a physics application" mean?

This problem applies to ALL MFD, Directional Locators, and LRL that utilize Hand Held Rod(s), or electronic receivers, to detect "field" of a signal line, or target.
Oh yes, of course ... the mystical (but totally nonexistent) "signal line".

You won't find any of the electronics people manufacturing these products and selling at outrageous prices, ripping off consumers, that are warning their customers of this problem. In fact, according to their advertising, there are no problems with their products. After all, they have electronic credentials, and utilizing the latest advance technology. Why should there be limitations to in the use of the Rod(s) Right?
:???: This makes no sense.

Carl, and the Skeptics on this forum have fully supported their Electronic buddies who are making a fortune ripping off consumers, in the LRL industry, for years.
:lol: I see you are trying to surpass Hung as the LRL comedian. :lol:

I've ignored the rest of your diatribe for obvious reasons. :rolleyes:

[J_Player]

Whats all this talk about the Geotech engineers helping Dell's competitors to succeed, while putting Dell out of business?

For many, it is hard to follow Dell's reasoning. But through a fortuitous coincidence, I have had the experience of becoming fluent in the language/mind-set of hillbillies and rednecks. You want to know what Dell is saying?
Here it is:

The Geotech engineers have spent most of their energy concentrating on de-bunking Dell Winders, while generally ignoring, or supporting other LRL manufacturers who add lots of fancy electronics to their LRLs that work on the same principle as Dell's LRLs. Over a period of time, this gave the advantage to Dell's competitors, and left him trailing in the weeds behind them, nearly putting him out of business. Furthermore, Dell claims that the Geotech engineers have "fully supported their Electronic buddies who are making a fortune ripping off consumers, in the LRL industry, for years". To sum it up, the Geotech engineers are helping to promote LRLs with lots of fancy electronic gizmoes attached, and criticizing the simple LRLs that Dell sells.

Another significant item Dell mentioned is that these LRLs all work by sensing the same kind of signals around treasures, which have limitations. He pointed out that because he gives demonstrations and training, he will show you what these limitations are before you buy. But Dell's competitors claim that their LRLs are without limitations because their fancy electronics make them foolproof. Dell's point is that he is the only honest LRL manufacturer who tells you they are not perfect, while the others will say anything you want to hear to make a sale.

That is what Dell is basically saying.

So let's look into Dell's rants:

1. Have the Geotech engineers focused their skepticism on Dell Winders, and not his competitors who have fancier electronic gizmoes connected to their LRLs?
In my opinion, Dell has gotten more arguments against him than other LRL manufacturers if you measure the count of words in negative posts. This appears to be true in the Geotech forums as well as others. So why would people focus their efforts on Dell, and not his competitors? Could it be because only Dell comes around calling people bald face liars, and threatening to sue them for stating their opinion, and calling people names, etc, etc? How often have you seen Dell's competitors do that in the forums? Not very often. I suppose the more you attack people, the more you should expect to receive negative comments back. You can also look in this remote sensing forum at others who make verbal attacks, and you will see they also receive much more negative feedback than people who do not.

More important, Dell comes around more often than his competitors. How can anyone post a reply to a manufacturer who did not make a post? Dell decided to put himself on the firing line and his competitors did not. Should we blame the skeptics for this fact?

2. Have Geotech engineers given the advantage to Dell's electronic competitors and caused him to go out of business?
I doubt it.
I look at Carl's LRL reports page, and I see reports on 13 different LRLs. Only one is sold by Dell Winders. I see no glowing reports for any of Dell's competitors. Carl is basically saying they are all garbage, the ones with fancy electronics and the ones without. I found the same attitudes in the forums. The LRLs manufacturer who had the most negative words posted against it is probably Mineoro, not Dell-Omnitron. I doubt any fancy electronic LRL get's a special break. Even the topic of this thread -- the Spektra -- is a debunking of a fraudulent fancy electronic LRL that competes with Dell.

3. Have the Geotech engineers fully supported their electronic buddies who are making a fortune ripping off customres in the LRL industry for years?
Their "electronic buddies?" What!!! ?
As far as I know, there is no electronic engineer putting circuit boards on LRLs. Most LRL internal electronics look like they were done by middle school students who never saw a soldering iron before they got the job. In this forum we keep hearing skeptics use the same words to describe the electronics in LRLs like "garbage", "trash", "crap", etc. The idea that the persons who design this crap and assemble it are "buddies" of any of the skeptics seems ludicrous to me. *(One exception is Tim Williams, who designed a nice PIC board for the Pro 4. I consider Tim to be a good guy, based on his forum posts. The funny thing is, he might be considered a buddy who helps with Dell's electronics, not Dell's competitors).

4. Dell is the only LRL manufacturer who tells the limitations of the devices he sells.
This may be true. I don't see other LRL companies talking about limitations of their products. Maybe Mineoro... They talk a lot about their idea of how LRLs work, and about how humidity and other things can impair the operation of their LRLs. But generally speaking, it looks like most LRL ads avoid any reference to limitations on their products.

Bottom line (just my opinion):
It seems to me that Dell gets more negative posts because he makes his presence more often, and in a more abrasive manner than his competitors. Could it be that the energy that Dell puts into attacking people who disagree with him is causing an overall negative image of his LRL business? Or maybe his posting technically ignorant blunders in a technical forum brings lots of negative feedback?

Perhaps Dell's LRL business trails behind his competitors because he lacks some needed business management skills, and has nothing to do with what people post on forums. After all... how can one engineer put an LRL manufacturer out of business? How can even one forum accomplish that?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

Whats all this talk about the Geotech engineers helping Dell's competitors to succeed, while putting Dell out of business?

For many, it is hard to follow Dell's reasoning. But through a fortuitous coincidence, I have had the experience of becoming fluent in the language/mind-set of hillbillies and rednecks. You want to know what Dell is saying?
Here it is:

The Geotech engineers have spent most of their energy concentrating on de-bunking Dell Winders, while generally ignoring, or supporting other LRL manufacturers who add lots of fancy electronics to their LRLs that work on the same principle as Dell's LRLs. Over a period of time, this gave the advantage to Dell's competitors, and left him trailing in the weeds behind them, nearly putting him out of business. Furthermore, Dell claims that the Geotech engineers have "fully supported their Electronic buddies who are making a fortune ripping off consumers, in the LRL industry, for years". To sum it up, the Geotech engineers are helping to promote LRLs with lots of fancy electronic gizmoes attached, and criticizing the simple LRLs that Dell sells.

Another significant item Dell mentioned is that these LRLs all work by sensing the same kind of signals around treasures, which have limitations. He pointed out that because he gives demonstrations and training, he will show you what these limitations are before you buy. But Dell's competitors claim that their LRLs are without limitations because their fancy electronics make them foolproof. Dell's point is that he is the only honest LRL manufacturer who tells you they are not perfect, while the others will say anything you want to hear to make a sale.

That is what Dell is basically saying.

So let's look into Dell's rants:

1. Have the Geotech engineers focused their skepticism on Dell Winders, and not his competitors who have fancier electronic gizmoes connected to their LRLs?
In my opinion, Dell has gotten more arguments against him than other LRL manufacturers if you measure the count of words in negative posts. This appears to be true in the Geotech forums as well as others. So why would people focus their efforts on Dell, and not his competitors? Could it be because only Dell comes around calling people bald face liars, and threatening to sue them for stating their opinion, and calling people names, etc, etc? How often have you seen Dell's competitors do that in the forums? Not very often. I suppose the more you attack people, the more you should expect to receive negative comments back. You can also look in this remote sensing forum at others who make verbal attacks, and you will see they also receive much more negative feedback than people who do not.

More important, Dell comes around more often than his competitors. How can anyone post a reply to a manufacturer who did not make a post? Dell decided to put himself on the firing line and his competitors did not. Should we blame the skeptics for this fact?

2. Have Geotech engineers given the advantage to Dell's electronic competitors and caused him to go out of business?
I doubt it.
I look at Carl's LRL reports page, and I see reports on 13 different LRLs. Only one is sold by Dell Winders. I see no glowing reports for any of Dell's competitors. Carl is basically saying they are all garbage, the ones with fancy electronics and the ones without. I found the same attitudes in the forums. The LRLs manufacturer who had the most negative words posted against it is probably Mineoro, not Dell-Omnitron. I doubt any fancy electronic LRL get's a special break. Even the topic of this thread -- the Spektra -- is a debunking of a fraudulent fancy electronic LRL that competes with Dell.

3. Have the Geotech engineers fully supported their electronic buddies who are making a fortune ripping off customres in the LRL industry for years?
Their "electronic buddies?" What!!! ?
As far as I know, there is no electronic engineer putting circuit boards on LRLs. Most LRL internal electronics look like they were done by middle school students who never saw a soldering iron before they got the job. In this forum we keep hearing skeptics use the same words to describe the electronics in LRLs like "garbage", "trash", "crap", etc. The idea that the persons who design this crap and assemble it are "buddies" of any of the skeptics seems ludicrous to me. *(One exception is Tim Williams, who designed a nice PIC board for the Pro 4. I consider Tim to be a good guy, based on his forum posts. The funny thing is, he might be considered a buddy who helps with Dell's electronics, not Dell's competitors).

4. Dell is the only LRL manufacturer who tells the limitations of the devices he sells.
This may be true. I don't see other LRL companies talking about limitations of their products. Maybe Mineoro... They talk a lot about their idea of how LRLs work, and about how humidity and other things can impair the operation of their LRLs. But generally speaking, it looks like most LRL ads avoid any reference to limitations on their products.

Bottom line (just my opinion):
It seems to me that Dell gets more negative posts because he makes his presence more often, and in a more abrasive manner than his competitors. Could it be that the energy that Dell puts into attacking people who disagree with him is causing an overall negative image of his LRL business? Or maybe his posting technically ignorant blunders in a technical forum brings lots of negative feedback?

Perhaps Dell's LRL business trails behind his competitors because he lacks some needed business management skills, and has nothing to do with what people post on forums. After all... how can one engineer put an LRL manufacturer out of business? How can even one forum accomplish that?

Best wishes,
J_P

Well, so much for the truth being in a Skeptic's arm chair analaysis. No research, no supporting data.

Again, presumption,and assumption, spoken in ignorance. Carl, and cronies started their attacks on me personally, actually posting that they were there to put me out of business.

The Skeptic rationale? They demanded that I provide them the schematics to a fully electronic Frequency Discriminator, so that they could duplicate it and conduct their own tests. (sound familiar?) Because I wouldn't cater to their Blackmail, they proclaimed that they (Skeptics) had every right to say whatever they wished about me, and that I should be put out of business. (I still have hard copies)

Your nice guy, Carl, and Skeptic cronies have pursued that goal ever since, on every Treasure forum, using aliases, and their computer knowledge to perform unscrupulous offline damage.

Carl, didn't put up this forum and the Challenge gimmick, in search of credibility and support, until years after he and the Skeptic clan started their attacks on me to put me out of business.

I even stopped building, and selling LRL products for 3 years, yet the vengeful Skeptic attacks on me continued relentless. LRL manufacturers obtained a monoply during that time, and their already high prices sky rocketed from $3,000 to $17,000, and then to as much as $100,000. ALL, using Rods to detect & meter the signal. A little B&K audio generator that retailed for $70, sold for $1,700 with the added pair of Rods, and claims of detecting fossils, and ancient arrow heads.

So what was Carl, and his Skeptic cronies doing about the increased Rip-offs while I was out of the business? Why, still attacking me, of course, for not catering to their Blackmail scheme. Nothing else mattered.

Even when there was an internet Scam, ripping off Treasure Hunters for big bucks. What did Carl, do about it? Nothing! What did his Skeptic Cronies do about it? They laughed and mocked the Treasure Hunters for being such Suckers as to fall for a Scam.

I notice the same blackmail tactics being employed by Skeptics on this forum, and sanctioned by Carl, with the demand to post schematics for you to duplicate, or, we can expect to suffer your consequences. You will mock, make inferences, tell lies about me, call me a Scammer, a fraud, say I am evil, hack my websites, computer, and e-mail. And that's while you pretend you are being courteous and Carl, whining his total innocence, that he always gets blamed.

Duh! Carl, You started the unprovoked attacks on me. It was never the other way around. An now, this is your forum. You are responsible for the content.

You stick your head in the sand and don't want to hear that It's Electronics people doing the manufacturing of LRL that are profiteering by ripping off Consumers with advanced technology claims, and justifying their claims with exaggerated prices.

You infer I can't possibly know what I am talking, because I am not formally educated.

You are right JP, those are good business practices for becoming financially successful. I understand them, and I see their effectiveness, but no thank you, that method of obtaining wealth doesn't interest me. I will suffer the skeptic wrath, and stay poor if that is my alternative.

And do your homework. I have been encouraging folks to test these products for themselves, or join me on a Treasure hunt and learn for themselves, ever since before I started selling anything. There is nothing new about that. It's no big deal.

Having lots of personal field experience with many types, makes and models off MFD, LRL, etc, I prefer educating people in their use, problems, limitations and benefits. I have experimented with, field tested, compared, and used these methods and they have been a great aid in my own Treasure searches. The benefits, and flaws should be pointed out, but total condemenation is NOT Scientifically justifiable, nor does Carl, have a valid, or provable argument against my products. They perform exactly as I say they do, under the magnetic conditions in which I claim they do. I would like for Carl, to show his valid Scientific proof that my products do not perform as advertised?

I do not support ripping off Treasure Hunters. I am a Treasure Hunter/Salvor myself for 35 years, and I have the knowledge, experience, and have personally experienced the hits, and rip-offs myself. It's my hope that other Treasure Hunters, can learn from my field experience, which includes Frequency discrimination methods.

I would have joined Carl, in his crusade to make a name for himself a long time ago, if he were not so sneaky, and two faced.

You folks may feel pride in rationalizing a vengeful Skeptic agenda, filled with hate mongering, and prejudiced, but to this uneducated hillbilly who has been on the receiving end, you are a pack of arrogant, egotistical, intellectual hypocrites who make a mockery of Science. Best Wishes, Dell

[Carl-NC]

Dell, your post is so full of wrong that a full response would be a waste of time. However, there is one point that I would still like to pursue:

You stick your head in the sand and don't want to hear that It's Electronics people doing the manufacturing of LRL that are profiteering by ripping off Consumers with advanced technology claims, and justifying their claims with exaggerated prices.

Since you're making such a Big Deal about this, I'll ask once again:

"Which manufacturer of LRLs has a true degreed electronic engineer?"

Can you either name someone, or simply say, "I don't know"? Because I sure don't know of any Real Engineers designing or promoting LRLs. All the Real Engineers I know of who look at LRLs agree that they are nonsense.

- Carl

[hung]

Dell, I see this thread has gone way off topic (as always), but I feel I should say some words to you although I don't come here as often as before.

I just don't understand why you bother with Carl.
He has no importance to the LRL subject at all. You know for eons he tries to pursue a local promotion against LRLs with the old and tiresome 'motto' pretense they are scam for his own business purposes. So why bother? Just ignore him once and for all.

If you know your device works and you also know much more about this subject than him, relax. You don't need to prove him anything.

Also don't understand why you insist wasting your time and precious health arguing here with his followers. You have done this hundreds of times in the past. What did you gain with that? Huh?

So, I'm sorry if I might bother you with my words, but I care about you and I don't like this situation. I think you should make a reflection about it.
But, feel free to do what you want.

All the best my friend.

[Götz von Berlichingen]

I think Mr. Winders gave a good answer in 2006 on thunting.com.
"NO! In my opinion, the locators I sell DO NOT actually detect Gold." Dell
http://thunting.com/smf/black_box_technologies/contest_on_the_geotech_forum-t298.0.html;msg1338#msg1338
No matter how hard you try, you will never get a better piece of Information from him.

[hung]

I think Mr. Winders gave a good answer in 2006 on thunting.com.

http://thunting.com/smf/black_box_technologies/contest_on_the_geotech_forum-t298.0.html;msg1338#msg1338
No matter how hard you try, you will never get a better piece of Information from him.

Wow... I haven't read that thread back then.
I'm sorry for Carl. He was put into pieces by Art, Dandequille and Dell himself.

Thanks for posting this Gotz.

[Qiaozhi]

Wow... I haven't read that thread back then.
I'm sorry for Carl. He was put into pieces by Art, Dandequille and Dell himself.

Thanks for posting this Gotz.
You are one confused individual. :stars:

[J_Player]

"NO! In my opinion, the locators I sell DO NOT actually detect Gold." DellDell said this?
Ok, I take it back. I will no longer assume the Omnitron LRLs can't pass a double blind test for finding gold.
I will take Dell's word for it and consider it a fact that they don't detect gold.

Errr... so what do they do?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Carl-NC]

Dell said this?
Ok, I take it back. I will no longer assume the Omnitron LRLs can't pass a double blind test for finding gold.
I will take Dell's word for it and consider it a fact that they don't detect gold.

Errr... so what do they do?


As Dell said, "They perform exactly as I say they do, under the magnetic conditions in which I claim they do."

Isn't is perfectly clear?

- Carl

[Carl-NC]

You know for eons he tries to pursue a local promotion against LRLs with the old and tiresome 'motto' pretense they are scam for his own business purposes.

Hmmm... sure would like to know what my "business purposes" are. Might make me feel better about all the money I've spent debunking this junk.

- Carl

[J_Player]

And so it follows through in Dell's replies...
Well, so much for the truth being in a Skeptic's arm chair analaysis. No research, no supporting data.
Again, presumption,and assumption, spoken in ignorance. Carl, and cronies started their attacks on me personally, actually posting that they were there to put me out of business.This is great Dell,
No research and supporting data?
You can find it right here in this forum. It is self-evident to all who regularly read this forum.
In case you forgot:

1. You don't think I researched what kind of words you use to verbally attack people who don't agree with you?
Here are your words:
"That it is a stupid quote used by Skeptic Nut case"
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=87970&postcount=88
"Are there no Intelligent Skeptics, or are you just a freak anomaly wallowing in the ignorance your own imaginative pretense?"
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=84566&postcount=24
"this a hecklers forum for closed minded idiots to exercise their prejudice mentality."
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=78656&postcount=32
"There is no arguing with egotistical idiots"
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=78604&postcount=16
"your PRETENSE of Scientific knowledge of all physics astounds me".
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=78170&postcount=63"
There you go with your lieing inferences."
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=73790&postcount=56
This hypocricisy and deception is carried on today by the Skeptic cult...
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=48439&postcount=97 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=48439&postcount=97)
It's a bald faced lie, and fraud, when you don't know what you are talking about and make false allegations under a scientific pretense.
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=43981&postcount=3 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=43981&postcount=3)

I stopped here because this list of Dell quotes goes on and on and on for many pages ad nauseum. In fact, Dell has interjected so many abrasive attacks on people that many of his off-topic rantings were moved to a special area called "Dell's Complaints"
See here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11824

But this doesn't happen only in the Geotech forums. Dell has been banned from using the term "skeptic cult" on more than one forum. Have any other readers of the other treasure forums seen the posts by forum moderators warning Dell about his choice of words?

2. You don't think there is data to support how you post more often than your competitors?
Here is the data: Dell Winders -- Posts: 529.
Show me a single one of your competitors who comes anywhere close to that many posts. In fact, there are none. But not just in the Geotech forum. You are the sole LRL manufacturer who makes most of the posts on other treasure forums with non-conventional detector sections. Considering you use the same presumptive derogatory language there, I see you get more negative attacks responses in return than any of your competitors there too. (hint: business management often requires diplomacy and good public relations to avoid projecting the image of a whiny cry-baby looking for someone else to blame their troubles on. Who would want to buy anything from a loser)?

You want me to research and post the data for how many of your competitors post on this forum or any others in comparison to you? Forget it. You have Jumped into any treasure forum where you could find an audience for your diatribe. I see your competitors posting very rarely in comparison. Can you prove me wrong?

You want me to believe that Carl hampered your business while helping his "electronic buddies" put electronic junk on your competitors LRLs, and that put you out of business? Well, I don't. It just doesn't wash. For one, the loyal customer base you so often brag about would not be influenced by anything a skeptic could say. They are loyal, right? and they love the LRLs you sold them, and probably want to buy more as soon as they save up the money.

I also don't believe Carl or any other skeptic in this forum has any electronic buddies building crappy LRL junk, nor do I believe they would help them in any way. This is self evident in the content of this forum. You have already seen the data on Carl's LRL report page as well as what you can read on the titles of the posts in the remote sensing forums. I see posts by skeptics dealing with generally all LRLs in the same way. No singling out Dell winders. I only see more posts against Dell and his products because he calls people names and makes stupid arguments with very presumptive innuendos. Did I mention egotistical?

I look in your last post where you use your hillbilly logic to criticize me and skeptics in general for not doing our homework - no supporting data. Well, you are reading it here and in my previous post where I detailed the LRL reports page.
But wait...
According to Dell's hillbilly logic, only a skeptic must provide supporting data... Dell is exempt because of rule 1 and rule 2 of Dell's logic:

1. It helps me to sell Omnitron LRLs = Good, rational logic
2. It does not help me to sell Omnitron LRLs = Bad, irrational logic

So where is all the supporting data that shows how Carl was able to put you out of business by making forum posts so many years ago? Show us the relentless trail of posts that succeeded in turning a nation against Dell Winders. I just can't seem to find it. But I find plenty of posts where you argue with anyone who disagrees with you. Could it be that anyone who disagrees get's automatically branded as one of Carl's "skeptic cult?" Is this whole "skeptic cult" and "scientific pretender" talk just more of Dell's logic at work? Is Dell Winders trying to set himself up as a martyr, to make it look like a conspiracy of Carl's cronies are responsible for his decisions and failures?

I see plenty of data to support the fact you decided to make more posts in this forum and other treasure hunting forums than your competitors. Anyone can go to this forum and any other forum where you post and check the post counts for themselves. Have you ever considered that good business management includes avoiding making a public fool out of yourself? Could it be that this tends to drive customers away? Do you suppose this is the reason why your competitors don't often post in the open forums?

Personally, I don't think it matters much what gets posted in these foums. I doubt much of your clientele reads tech forums anyway. What's hard to understand is why you post here at all. You have your own forum where there are no skeptics to disagree with your ideas. It is the perfect forum where only hillbilly logic is allowed. Not a single negative post. So why not build up your own forum and use it to advertise your products in a favorable environment? Why try to get your publicity in a skeptic forum when you have a much more perfect forum of your own? Doesn't that make business sense?

Bottom line again: I did my research. The data is here and on a few other forums. So where's your data Dell?
Forget it... Even if Carl and others disagree with you, and you rant and holler, I still don't believe this caused any noticeable effect on your business. I believe you decided to place yourself in the middle of forum arguments yourself for years, and this had little to do with business either, other than distracting you from other things you should have been doing.

If you really think I am wrong, show me the data to prove it.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

J_Player, that took a lot of time... but it does iterate the supporting data Dell was asking for. What you have done is show Dell exactly what he has done to waste probably more than several decades of his life - while at the same time being his own worst enemy.

Then, in typical Dell fashion, he comes on any and all forums (where he isn't banned) and rants and raves about people trying to put him out of business.

The TRUTH is, if Dell's business has suffered in any possible way; it was BY HIS OWN HAND AND HIS OWN DOING. To the best of my knowledge, no one has held a gun to Dell's head and forced him to broadcast his diatribe on multiple forums, over the past decades.

Now. Where is Dell's data to the contrary? :|

[J_Player]

What you have done is show Dell exactly what he has done to waste probably more than several decades of his life - while at the same time being his own worst enemy,You have said what I said in a single sentence for people who have the intellect to see through the failings of hillbilly logic and don't need an instruction book to tell them what it means.
Now. Where is Dell's data to the contrary? :|Dell's data to the contrary?
Unless Dell actually understood what I said, I think we're about to hear all about it.
And it will be the same kind of data that Dell uses to prove his LRLs work.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Got really quiet didn't it.

Amazing the power of facts and truth over unsubstantiated diatribe and rhetoric.

Me thinks it was time to go into the "duck and run" routine. :D :D :D

[Fred]

Got really quiet didn't it.

Amazing the power of facts and truth over unsubstantiated diatribe and rhetoric.

Me thinks it was time to go into the "duck and run" routine. :D :D :D

...Will reboot in "safe mode" soon ...

[Jim]

Now for a break in the electronic buffoonery and chuckle at this.

You can actually purchase this empty plastic bottle and holder for a mere $75.

Yikes

Source: Dowse Master http://dowse.webs.com/apps/webstore/
Promoted by none other than Dell Winders

[Theseus]

Now for a break in the electronic buffoonery and chuckle at this.

You can actually purchase this empty plastic bottle and holder for a mere $75.

Yikes

Source: Dowse Master http://dowse.webs.com/apps/webstore/
Promoted by none other than Dell Winders

And here is the claim that makes it Fraud by Willful Deception:

"Just set the module above the ground on a stump, or rock, and the Dowse Master Target Discriminator, generates harmonic Signal lines to targets up to 100 feet away."

Other than dowsing rods (a trick of the mind), how do you suppose Dell can prove the generation of the so-called harmonic signal lines?

[Qiaozhi]

Now for a break in the electronic buffoonery and chuckle at this.

You can actually purchase this empty plastic bottle and holder for a mere $75.

Yikes

Source: Dowse Master http://dowse.webs.com/apps/webstore/
Promoted by none other than Dell Winders
More parts from the plumbing department. :lol:

[Rudy]

More parts from the plumbing department. :lol:

Ah yes, but anyone can tell that with the lid tightly screwed on, the humoric gases are confined to the inside and the end-to-end length of the chamber is one quarter wavelength of the humoric gas resonance frequency, so the oscillatory amplitude builds up inside the chamber thus facilitating the accurate discrimination of the sample.

[Qiaozhi]

Ah yes, but anyone can tell that with the lid tightly screwed on, the humoric gases are confined to the inside and the end-to-end length of the chamber is one quarter wavelength of the humoric gas resonance frequency, so the oscillatory amplitude builds up inside the chamber thus facilitating the accurate discrimination of the sample.
No doubt resulting in a sudden coherent burst of laughter from the semi-transparent cover on the end of the device. ;) :lol:

[J_Player]

Ah yes, but anyone can tell that with the lid tightly screwed on, the humoric gases are confined to the inside and the end-to-end length of the chamber is one quarter wavelength of the humoric gas resonance frequency, so the oscillatory amplitude builds up inside the chamber thus facilitating the accurate discrimination of the sample.Lid tightly screwed on?
Hmmmm....

Now according to realscience, when you have a pressure-tight seal, and the temperature changes, then the pressure of the gasses will change. Do you suppose this will change the humoric gas resonant frequency? And what about the temperature coefficient of the humoric gas resonant frequency? And, while we are on the topic, what motive force sets the humoric gas resonating, anyway?

Now I suppose this bottle comes with a chart that tells you how much to correct for temperature, atmospheric pressure, and internal pressure. Assuming it does, I would expect it also has a chart that tells you how many inch-pounds of torque to apply to the cap so the calibrated gasket will be compressed the exact amount needed to yield the correct resonant frequency that will send signal lines to the designated target.

Right?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Poor Dell.... :( it appears they (we) are laughing at your latest little ($2) plastic plumbing gimmick to swindle ready cash from the gullible and technically-challenged. :lol: :lol: :lol:

How do you sleep at night??? or even look yourself in the mirror??? I guess it's no wonder you have high blood pressure.

But then, I suppose you can buy quite a few BP pills with the $73 profit from just a single sale to some unsuspecting fool. Still, I would not want to be in your shoes.... no way!

[Rudy]

No doubt resulting in a sudden coherent burst of laughter from the semi-transparent cover on the end of the device. ;) :lol:

No doubt about it. Inhaling humoric gas will do that to you. :lol: