Texas Treasure Show

[Carl-NC]

Just got back from the Texas Treasure Show. I finally got to meet Tim Williams, and chatted with him several times. Really nice guy. He had his Geo-Loggers on display, and gave an outside demo which I missed because I got tied up in the White's booth.

H3Tec was also there, with their LRL. It is definitely a dowsing rod, no doubt about that. Sorry Dell, the Duck Criterion wins again. Listened to their seminar, their operational claims are the same ol' tired MFD-style atomic resonance nonsense, all fabricated.

When I pulled in Sunday morning, 2 fellows were in an adjacent field so I walked out to see how they were doing. They were searching for a hidden silver coin (the units were "programmed" for silver). I made sure they scanned past me, because I was carrying a 10-ounce silver bar. They had no idea. What a piece of garbage. I'm told that someone at the show actually bought one for $10,000, so the H3Tec was at least successful in locating a nice chunk of cash.

Finally, I saw Mike Healey's new dowsing rod at a booth. Sorry Mike, it looks kinda silly, you should include a tin-foil hat with it.

- Carl

[Theseus]

Just got back from the Texas Treasure Show. I finally got to meet Tim Williams, and chatted with him several times. Really nice guy. He had his Geo-Loggers on display, and gave an outside demo which I missed because I got tied up in the White's booth.

H3Tec was also there, with their LRL. It is definitely a dowsing rod, no doubt about that. Sorry Dell, the Duck Criterion wins again. Listened to their seminar, their operational claims are the same ol' tired MFD-style atomic resonance nonsense, all fabricated.

When I pulled in Sunday morning, 2 fellows were in an adjacent field so I walked out to see how they were doing. They were searching for a hidden silver coin (the units were "programmed" for silver). I made sure they scanned past me, because I was carrying a 10-ounce silver bar. They had no idea. What a piece of garbage. I'm told that someone at the show actually bought one for $10,000, so the H3Tec was at least successful in locating a nice chunk of cash.

Finally, I saw Mike Healey's new dowsing rod at a booth. Sorry Mike, it looks kinda silly, you should include a tin-foil hat with it.

- Carl

Thanks for updating us all on what you saw at the show. From the pictures on the Internet, H3Tec looked like another pseudo-enhanced dowsing rod. Glad you verified our suspicions.

Mike's RLR looks like another attempt to utilize some copper tubing and brazing rod and come up with just another ideomotor-based dowsing rod. Innovation equals zero. I like the idea of an enclosed tin-foil hat. Wilhelm Reich would be proud. :lol:

[Rudy]

Just got back from the Texas Treasure Show. I finally got to meet Tim Williams, and chatted with him several times. Really nice guy. He had his Geo-Loggers on display, and gave an outside demo which I missed because I got tied up in the White's booth.

H3Tec was also there, with their LRL. It is definitely a dowsing rod, no doubt about that. Sorry Dell, the Duck Criterion wins again. Listened to their seminar, their operational claims are the same ol' tired MFD-style atomic resonance nonsense, all fabricated.

When I pulled in Sunday morning, 2 fellows were in an adjacent field so I walked out to see how they were doing. They were searching for a hidden silver coin (the units were "programmed" for silver). I made sure they scanned past me, because I was carrying a 10-ounce silver bar. They had no idea. What a piece of garbage. I'm told that someone at the show actually bought one for $10,000, so the H3Tec was at least successful in locating a nice chunk of cash.

Finally, I saw Mike Healey's new dowsing rod at a booth. Sorry Mike, it looks kinda silly, you should include a tin-foil hat with it.

- Carl

Carl,

It wouldn't find your silver bar because it was not "long time buried" silver. You know, it takes time for those ionic fields to form. :rolleyes:

Glad to hear it went well for you in Texas. Wish I could afford one of those Vision machines.

[Mike(Mont)]

Carl, I actually joked that one of the RLR prototypes could be nicknamed The Alien WTF? Someone else said I must have got the plans from a downed UFO. And there are a couple people who really seem to take offense to it after only looking at the photo. I take that as a compliment. It might look silly to you, but it's a serious performer. Like a fine violin, it takes practice to get the most out of it.

[Theseus]

Carl, I actually joked that one of the RLR prototypes could be nicknamed The Alien WTF? Someone else said I must have got the plans from a downed UFO. And there are a couple people who really seem to take offense to it after only looking at the photo. I take that as a compliment. It might look silly to you, but it's a serious performer. Like a fine violin, it takes practice to get the most out of it.

Old piece of wire bent into the shape of an L or your RLR - it does not matter how long you practice with them, 5 minutes or 5 years. They always come back with the same answer; "I guess it's over there", or "I think that looks like a good spot to try".

Then you get out your trusty metal detector and start scanning the area in ever-increasing circles. Pretty soon, you will dig up something that might be considered a possible target. And that's the way it works; every time.

Don't forget to line your ball cap with tin foil. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Mike(Mont)]

The H3Tec would work a lot better with an RLR hooked up to it. The RLR trains the operator to be more accurate. Any sloppy rod work is immediately obvious. You can sweep it very slowly and easily get a response. This gives more time to detect the signal line or target. :cool:

[Theseus]

The H3Tec would work a lot better with an RLR hooked up to it. The RLR trains the operator to be more accurate. Any sloppy rod work is immediately obvious. You can sweep it very slowly and easily get a response. This gives more time to detect the signal line or target. :cool:

If you hook one dowsing rod up to another dowsing rod, would that make it Dowsing Squared?

Now let's assume the first dowsing rod is off by 50%, and its results are fed into the second dowsing rod, which also has an error rate of 50%. It would seem that now the operator could be guaranteed of at least being 100% wrong, if the errors are additive. If they are the product of the two errors then that works out to an error of 2500%. Does this mean a dowser could be standing in the USA and end up searching in the wrong continent?

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Maybe the tin-foil cap could reduce that error by say, 10% :D

[Mike(Mont)]

I wasn't there but I saw the Nat Geo show and saw what the rod looked like. Just your basic rod if that's the same one these guys had. Just a piece of tubing with a welding rod sticking out and a wire hooked to it. That was nothing like the photo of that camo hand-held unit someone posted here.

I suspect these guys didn't have enough rod practice to be performing in front of a crowd who are staring at the buckets and at them. Just try and imagine all the gold and silver in the area. Add to it tons of electronic equipment. I don't know if even I could have hit 100%. It's easy to get distracted most anytime and this type situation is severe. Just the fact that they even attempted it is a dead give-away.

[Steve in MS]

. I don't know if even I could have hit 100%. It's easy to get distracted most anytime and this type situation is severe. Just the fact that they even attempted it is a dead give-away.

If this is true then you are unique, probably the only one in the world that can make these rods :D:D:razz::razz::lol::lol:.

[Qiaozhi]

I suspect these guys didn't have enough rod practice to be performing in front of a crowd who are staring at the buckets and at them. Just try and imagine all the gold and silver in the area. Add to it tons of electronic equipment.
It's those sneaky guys, who are carrying a 10-ounce silver bar in their pocket, that you need to watch out for. :D

[Theseus]

I suspect these guys didn't have enough rod practice to be performing in front of a crowd who are staring at the buckets and at them.

Yeah, I'm sure that was it. The designers and inventors of the device probably wouldn't be near as knowledgeable about their own gadget and how to operate it so they didn't come off looking like fools. :rolleyes:

My goodness, what were they thinking? Probably didn't dawn on them that someone might be in the area with a silver bar in their pocket. :lol::lol::lol:

_______________________________

Now let's get back to reality here, and simple facts! Ideomotor-driven hand-held contraptions, when fairly tested, will always produce results that are consistent with ordinary guesswork. Doesn't matter in whose hands it is in or how many thousands of hours they've practiced, the final result will always be the same.

To believe anything else is pure lunacy. :D (unless, of course, you have the proper tin-foil hat on)

[Mike(Mont)]

It's true the Revelation Locator Rod (RLR) is much more than the sum of it's parts. As I said I had thought about using gyros to stabilize it but concluded it would raise the price too much and might render it lifeless. So what I came up with was a unique combination of sensitivity and stability. It's the KISS principle to keep it elegant. I've used rods that cost over ten times as much and I like the RLR. As I have said, some people don't like sensitive rods, so "let them use coat hangers". When's the last time you found three rings with a coat hanger in an hour-and-a-half? I'm not talking about Miami beach with thousands of people passing each hour, just a small park that probably doesn't see a hundred people walk by in a year. An it's an area that had been covered with more dirt several years ago.

I know it sounds like I am trying to push the RLR. Actually I don't like building them. It's stressful, there's always the chance of injury from the power tools, etc. My labor and parts are just barely covered by the price $125, and that's without any of the tools expense, shop space, or hundreds of hours of development time, etc. which I have donated to the locator community. So why should anyone care if I build these? Huh? Do you feel threatened? Like I said before I am selling these because I think they are worth it. I think the RLR can improve your rod skills and accuracy. :cool:

[sweatofglory]

fact is rlr is much better than pendulum! what do ya think mike mont?:)

[Theseus]

From what I've seen, most dowsers make enough errors and introduce problems for themselves by getting subtle "wrong" ideomotor-based indications. Put a more sensitive ideomotor-driven contraption in their hand, and they will only generate even more wrong indications.

Mike, it seems your thinking is counter intuitive, and the RLR device will only be a detriment rather than an improvement to the dowsing experience. One would have to ask themselves; why would they sacrifice that kind of money just to make their dowsing experience more error prone than it already is??? :cool:

[Mike(Mont)]

Some people like pendulums. I'm not one of them. A pendulum doesn't gyrate or oscilate without a continual timed input (like pumping your legs on a child's swing).

Your basic L-rod requires quite a bit of force to get it started moving. At that point it becomes a runaway train unless you use an equal opposing force to stop it.

The RLR requires an imperceptable amount of force to initiate movement (very low start-up torque threshold) and even less to influence it after that point. That's way I say the rod feels like it hits a wall when it tries to cross the edge of the target's field. It doesn't bounce around at that point, it just stops on a nats behind. I mean all you so-called physicists out there must be able to understand this.

What you prbably will refuse to see is that the human consciousness can affect the shape of the aura.

[Theseus]

What you prbably(sic) will refuse to see is that the human consciousness can affect the shape of the aura.

Hold onto your ballcap lined with tin foil, because.....

You're traveling through another dimension -- a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. That's a signpost up ahead: your next stop: the Twilight Zone!

I wonder if Rod Serling had a tin-foil cap???

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Qiaozhi]

The RLR requires an imperceptable amount of force to initiate movement (very low start-up torque threshold) and even less to influence it after that point. That's way I say the rod feels like it hits a wall when it tries to cross the edge of the target's field. It doesn't bounce around at that point, it just stops on a nats behind. I mean all you so-called physicists out there must be able to understand this.
That would be true if there was any real science behind the idea of a signal line ... which there is not ... so the highlighted sentence above makes no sense.

What you prbably will refuse to see is that the human consciousness can affect the shape of the aura.
Mind over matter? Again, totally unproven, as is the idea of an "aura".
This way of thinking harks back to early Victorian times and such things as ectoplasm. Or perhaps you think that exists as well?

[Mike(Mont)]

Those who have seen know. Those who have not seen, no amout of proof is sufficient.

As for the astronomical price of $125, go try skiing of golfing for one day. Or a couple boxes of Depends.

[hung]

Mind over matter? Again, totally unproven, as is the idea of an "aura".
This way of thinking harks back to early Victorian times and such things as ectoplasm. Or perhaps you think that exists as well?

Just today I hung in (no pun intended) here and saw the 'atrocity' above you have said.
Normally I would not care to make a coment about that but your stupidity is so gross and grave that I thought about the other serious readers in this forum that could be affected and somehow influenced wrong by such blasfemy.

Firstly, the only one who seem to be in 'Victorian Times' as you said, is yourself who already showed your 16th century scientific knowledge plenty of time.

Which brings of course to my second statement that your 16th century is too much primitive to understand what Aura and ectoplasm are.

And finally, try to keep at least 2% updated with science to know their acomplishments and true data about the Aura and the existence of the spirits before emitting those 'noises'.
Thanks.
*****

Mike, don't throw pearls to the ... you know.
Keep up the good work.
Regards.

[Mike(Mont)]

The reason I said two boxes of Depends is one box for his mouth.

[Qiaozhi]

Which brings of course to my second statement that your 16th century is too much primitive to understand what Aura and ectoplasm are.
Since you used such words as "blasfemy" (sic) - [correct spelling is blasphemy] - this just goes to prove that this dowsing nonsense is an integral part of your belief system, and I seem to have touched a nerve. :lol:

And ... you also managed to answer the question I posed to Mike ... you do actually believe in aura and ectoplasm. You are clearly beyond all hope, or should that be 'redemption'. :razz:

[Theseus]

Since you used such words as "blafemy" (sic) - [correct spelling is blasphemy] - this just goes to prove that this dowsing nonsense is an integral part of your belief system, and I seem to have touched a nerve. :lol:

And ... you also managed to answer the question I posed to Mike ... you do actually believe in aura and ectoplasm. You are clearly beyond all hope, or should that be 'redemption'. :razz:

Ever notice how testy they get when backed into a corner by the truth. Kind of like throwing Holy Water on a vampire, or making the Sign of a Cross in front of them - it really must sting. :razz: :razz:

[Qiaozhi]

Ever notice how testy they get when backed into a corner by the truth. Kind of like throwing Holy Water on a vampire, or making the Sign of a Cross in front of them - it really must sting. :razz: :razz:
Yes - it's funny how they attempt to use scientific-sounding terms to justify their medieval practices, then accuse the real engineers and scientists of being scientific-pretenders. It makes me laugh every time. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ouija boards, table tipping, sceances (complete with ectoplasm), magic crystals, copper bracelets (to ward off rheumatism and arthritis), Tarot cards, astrology, homeopathy and dowsing are all relics of the past ... or are they? You only have to look at the back pages of some magazines to know that these outdated ideas are still with us. Will they never learn...? With people like Hung continuing to promote this absurd rubbish, it will probably be with us for many years to come.

[Steve in MS]

Those who have seen know. Those who have not seen, no amout of proof is sufficient.

As for the astronomical price of $125, go try skiing of golfing for one day. Or a couple boxes of Depends.

The trouble is no one has seen but you and your fellow LRL believers:D:razz::lol:.
Even if your instrument will work, how many that buy them will be able to get it to work? Doesn't it take special skills to be successful with one?
How long will it take for someone to aquire such skills, if ever:D:razz::lol:?
What percentage of those who try it will be successful,
80%, 60%, 30%, 20%, or 0%:D:razz::lol:?
I never would be good in sales, there is too much sugar coating or just plain out B.S. going on:D:D:razz::razz::lol::lol:.
.....For the self deluded, this shouldn't be any problem:D:D:razz::razz::lol::lol:.

[Dell Winders]

It is definitely a dowsing rod, no doubt about that. Sorry Dell, the Duck Criterion wins again.

If you consider reference to a duck a scientific explanation you are the most ignorant pretend scientist to post such stupidity on the internet.

The question to be answered, was the claimed Dowsing rod (?) being used in a meta-physics application, or a physics application?

There is a huge difference.

You are right, Tim Williams, is a good guy. So am I.

I don't know how you conned Whites, into hiring you, but it's obvious that whatever Kenny, is paying you , he's getting ripped off by a scientific pretender Dell. Quack! Quack!

[Qiaozhi]

The question to be answered, was the claimed Dowsing rod (?) being used in a meta-physics application, or a physics application?
There's no question to be answered here. Dowsing rods "operate" by the ideomotor effect, which is a psychological phenomenon. The only physics involved is related to gravity. Meta-physics explanations are simply nonsense.

Quack! Quack!
The duck has spoken... :rolleyes:

[Mike(Mont)]

I said you guys would probably refuse to see. Why should I waste my time trying to explain something you refuse to see? I don't even mean "see" in the visual sense. You can't see consciousness. Go do your own research and practice.

Whether you call the RLR a dowsing rod or locator rod makes no difference to me. I've used it by itself but I most always use it with some type of amplifier or frequency generator because it gives me a much stronger signal.

[Qiaozhi]

And to top it all ... yes , even Hung's nonsense posts ... I've just seen this ->
http://www.orange.co.uk/news/quirkies/default.htm?rm=storyitem&storyId=3256361

Does human stupidity have no bounds?

At least one of the Tory Welsh Assembly members has his head screwed on properly. ;)

[Steve in MS]

I said you guys would probably refuse to see. Why should I waste my time trying to explain something you refuse to see? I don't even mean "see" in the visual sense. You can't see consciousness. Go do your own research and practice.

Whether you call the RLR a dowsing rod or locator rod makes no difference to me. I've used it by itself but I most always use it with some type of amplifier or frequency generator because it gives me a much stronger signal.

Refuse to see what:D:razz::lol:? All we have is your word, it appears since it cannot be proven "visually", something else is involved.
Is LRL a religion or what:D:razz::lol:?
Maybe it's the power of positive thinking:D:D:razz::razz::lol::lol:.
If belief is all that is necessary, one doesn't need to be hindered by any "physical" apparatus:D:D:razz::razz::lol::lol:.
Research and practice:D:razz::lol:? Any research ends in no proof and no
real answers from the true believers:D:D:razz::razz::lol::lol:.

[Dell Winders]

The duck has spoken...

That sure is is one stupid duck. Dell

[Qiaozhi]

That sure is is one stupid duck. Dell
You said it... :razz:

[J_Player]

Yes - it's funny how they attempt to use scientific-sounding terms to justify their medieval practices, then accuse the real engineers and scientists of being scientific-pretenders.Ummm..
Who is accusing real engineers and scientists of being scientific-pretenders?
Is it a real scientist, or a real electronic technician, -- or at least a real person who was able to make it past 6th grade?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

I haven't seen any Real scientist posting on this forum. Have you?

Of course, if you are claiming that the Electronic engineers and techs here are scientist, and that Carl, is a real Scientist, then you will have to admit that Remote sensing, Frequency Discrimination, promoted by an uneducated Hillbilly is Scientific, because the majority of MFD units manufactured & sold around the world are built by Electronic engineers, and techs. Right? Dell

[Qiaozhi]

Of course, if you are claiming that the Electronic engineers and techs here are scientist, and that Carl, is a real Scientist, then you will have to admit that Remote sensing, Frequency Discrimination, promoted by an uneducated Hillbilly is Scientific, because the majority of MFD units manufactured & sold around the world are built by Electronic engineers, and techs. Right? Dell
That's only because uneducated Hillbillies are incapable of making these units themselves. The engineers, in this case, are simply doing some reverse wallet mining. :razz:

[J_Player]

Of course, if you are claiming that the Electronic engineers and techs here are scientist, and that Carl, is a real Scientist, then you will have to admit that Remote sensing, Frequency Discrimination, promoted by an uneducated Hillbilly is Scientific, because the majority of MFD units manufactured & sold around the world are built by Electronic engineers, and techs. Right? DellI haven't claimed anything nor do I have to admit anything.
I asked a question about the credentials of the person who is accusing real engineers and scientists of being scientific-pretenders.
"Is it a real scientist, or a real electronic technician, -- or at least a real person who was able to make it past 6th grade?"

I presume my question can be answered with a "yes" or "no", can't it?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Mike(Mont)]

When you put down people as "intellectually inferior" to you, it's a sign you are the one with the inferiority complex. I'll bet Dell has a higher IQ than most people on this forum.

As Albert Einstein said: "Pure logical thinking cannot yield us any knowledge of the empirical world: all knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends with it. Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." In other words some people do, others only criticize what they can't seem to grasp.

This ought to be a sobering wake-up call to pull your head out of your behind. I know this will never happen because of ego problems.

[Mike(Mont)]

A bunch of turkeys brainwashed by the education system. Can't do nothing but complain about what other people have accomplished. Reminds me a little child who tasted some sour grapes and even as an adult still refuses to even try any. That's a mental block that needs to be cleared.

[Theseus]

This ought to be a sobering wake-up call to pull your head out of your behind. I know this will never happen because of ego problems.

As an up and coming wallet-mining LRL salesman, is this really the personality and image you want to project to your targeted market audience?

Your methods of handling yourself when faced with logical truths and facts is not exactly what I would call exemplary. Much like how Dell counters truth and facts. Can't you see what that approach has gotten him?

It's really obvious that what you criticize others of, is really a perfect reflection of your own problems and insecurity issues that you are struggling with on a daily basis.

Maybe it's time to break out of the old habits of "learned responses" and try something new.

;)

A bunch of turkeys brainwashed by the education system. Can't do nothing but complain about what other people have accomplished.

Did you mean to construct that sentence with a double negative? I suppose maybe you are trying to write on a level with Dell and your targeted market environment - but I would question your motives.

[Fred]

And to top it all ... yes , even Hung's nonsense posts ... I've just seen this ->
http://www.orange.co.uk/news/quirkies/default.htm?rm=storyitem&storyId=3256361
Does human stupidity have no bounds?
At least one of the Tory Welsh Assembly members has his head screwed on properly. ;)
Actually i think it is important to give them credits so they cannot say they are being ignored or "witch hunted".
I haven't seen any Real scientist posting on this forum. Have you?

At least what they post can be verified and proven by anyone.

As Albert Einstein said: "Pure logical thinking cannot yield us any knowledge of the empirical world: all knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends with it. Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." In other words some people do, others only criticize what they can't seem to grasp.

But Einstein took years to prove his theories.He didn´t just claim that first thing he imagined was true.

[Fred]

A bunch of turkeys brainwashed by the education system. Can't do nothing but complain about what other people have accomplished. Reminds me a little child who tasted some sour grapes and even as an adult still refuses to even try any. That's a mental block that needs to be cleared.
Should be easy to prove them wrong :rolleyes:

[Esteban]

We can repeat our show as the start of the 80 in USA.

[Esteban]

This is more old show, end of the 70s... from remote corner of the world.

[Fred]

Esteban,
What is needed is scientifical proofs of the effects involved .

[Steve in MS]

A bunch of turkeys brainwashed by the education system. Can't do nothing but complain about what other people have accomplished. Reminds me a little child who tasted some sour grapes and even as an adult still refuses to even try any. That's a mental block that needs to be cleared.

Rather this is a bunch of more nonsense:D:razz::lol:. What does this have to do with LRL:D:razz::lol:? If you are going to sell LRLs, wouldn't be in your interest to put on a demonstration of how useful they are, that is have double blind tests set-up to prove once and for all whether they work or not:D:razz::lol:?
Most instruments for sell can be tested to prove their intended use, right:D:D:razz::razz::lol::lol:?

[Theseus]

Rather this is a bunch of more nonsense:D:razz::lol:. What does this have to do with LRL:D:razz::lol:? If you are going to sell LRLs, wouldn't be in your interest to put on a demonstration of how useful they are, that is have double blind tests set-up to prove once and for all whether they work or not:D:razz::lol:?
Most instruments for sell can be tested to prove their intended use, right:D:D:razz::razz::lol::lol:?

Categorically, LRL wallet-miners try to stay as far away from double blind and monitored tests as they can.

I suppose it is a little hard to design valid test protocols that involve ectoplasm, Healey consciousness, auras and other things that go bump in the night; but if those who claim they've seen these things, can repeatedly make them appear, then I suppose a protocol could be devised.

Alternatively, if most of the parameters surrounding dowsing are not repeatable, or can only be viewed by certain "believers", then it would seem the entire concept is greatly flawed and no doubt untestable in its present state. ;) :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Esteban]

Esteban,
What is needed is scientifical proofs of the effects involved .

How do you can found scientifical proof if scientific doesn't construct it...? exceprt nazi scientifics, maybe...

[Fred]

How do you can found scientifical proof if scientific doesn't construct it...? exceprt nazi scientifics, maybe...
Everything has an explanation, you just have to find it.;)
Pictures won´t help,as i said before you must study it enought to find the explanation.If you succeed you and your descendants will be rich :cool:.
Regards,
Fred

[Steve in MS]

Esteban, is that you on the right in both pics?
70's? You are getting old like me.
Regards.

[Esteban]

Esteban, is that you on the right in both pics?
70's? You are getting old like me.
Regards.

No, is my cousin: Miguel Montania Grinok. He introduce me in 1979 telling that exist a device with wich you can found metal at certain distance. I'm in my avatar.

The 1981 pic is in... Texas!!! So, also this is a "Texas LRL show". :)

In Texas remain 1,000 witnesses, "electrized" :lol: by the findings.

Many pics in Texas in 2 trips, 1981 and 1985. I have posted many here.

Some pics was posted here, like the above in zip. Others with sequence of findings in rapidshare (today deleted).

Regards

[Esteban]

Everything has an explanation, you just have to find it.;)
Pictures won´t help,as i said before you must study it enought to find the explanation.If you succeed you and your descendants will be rich :cool:.
Regards,
Fred

I learn the important from Alonso. He is the "heroe". :) I'm just a pupil.

[Fred]

I learn the important from Alonso. He is the "heroe". :) I'm just a pupil.
If i may,
Don´t be.He may be the hero, but nobody needs to keep in the shadow.
It is often an excuse to avoid working :lol:

[Steve in MS]

No, is my cousin: Miguel Montania Grinok. He introduce me in 1979 telling that exist a device with wich you can found metal at certain distance. I'm in my avatar.

The 1981 pic is in... Texas!!! So, also this is a "Texas LRL show". :)

In Texas remain 1,000 witnesses, "electrized" :lol: by the findings.

Many pics in Texas in 2 trips, 1981 and 1985. I have posted many here.

Some pics was posted here, like the above in zip. Others with sequence of findings in rapidshare (today deleted).

Regards

Sorry for misidentifying you, I was comparing your avatar, I guess I saw the family resemblance:).
Regards

[hung]

Yes Esteban, that was the TRUE Texas Treasure show.
Let the people have fun with the 'Vision' now, for a while.

Ben Gates: 'The secret lies in the Charlotte'.

No... 'The secret lies in South America!'

:lol::lol::lol:

[Esteban]

If i may,
Don´t be.He may be the hero, but nobody needs to keep in the shadow.
It is often an excuse to avoid working :lol:

No excuses here, I working on it. All persons work with a base.

[Tim Williams]

The show good. Carl and I talked about different things including the H3tec. I walked out the H3tec talk. My opinion from what I can see it is a dowsing rod cased in a wind proof window. The unit cost is 10,500 and 500.00 for each element. Each is leased for a year. So if you have silver and gold it will cost you 1000.00 a year to use the unit. Training is 1500.00 dollars. A resent repair cost 1500.00. You also have to sign a disclosure at purchase.

If the unit was truly all electronic sensing the 2 people that were testing the units would have had no problem detecting the silver I hid. That was not the case. I am just getting back from a trip. Carl I hope everything went well moving and your new job works out.

Tim

[J_Player]

My opinion from what I can see it is a dowsing rod cased in a wind proof window. The unit cost is 10,500 and 500.00 for each element. Each is leased for a year. So if you have silver and gold it will cost you 1000.00 a year to use the unit. Training is 1500.00 dollars. A resent repair cost 1500.00. You also have to sign a disclosure at purchase.

If the unit was truly all electronic sensing the 2 people that were testing the units would have had no problem detecting the silver I hid. That was not the case.Dang... This sounds hot! I want one.... but the cost is kinda high.

Hmmm... I think I can afford a "Mr. Stick". I wonder if I should spring for the $99.99 to get one...
Think so?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Dang... This sounds hot! I want one.... but the cost is kinda high.

Hmmm... I think I can afford a "Mr. Stick". I wonder if I should spring for the $99.99 to get one...
Think so?

Best wishes,
J_P

Yeah... go for the Mr. Stick.............. errrrrrrrrr.. wait a minute, maybe you should go for one of Tim's LRLs that comes with a "box of frequencies" and a rings theory to explain away your location failures. ;)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[H3 Tec]

Just got back from the Texas Treasure Show. I finally got to meet Tim Williams, and chatted with him several times. Really nice guy. He had his Geo-Loggers on display, and gave an outside demo which I missed because I got tied up in the White's booth.

H3Tec was also there, with their LRL. It is definitely a dowsing rod, no doubt about that. Sorry Dell, the Duck Criterion wins again. Listened to their seminar, their operational claims are the same ol' tired MFD-style atomic resonance nonsense, all fabricated.

When I pulled in Sunday morning, 2 fellows were in an adjacent field so I walked out to see how they were doing. They were searching for a hidden silver coin (the units were "programmed" for silver). I made sure they scanned past me, because I was carrying a 10-ounce silver bar. They had no idea. What a piece of garbage. I'm told that someone at the show actually bought one for $10,000, so the H3Tec was at least successful in locating a nice chunk of cash.

Finally, I saw Mike Healey's new dowsing rod at a booth. Sorry Mike, it looks kinda silly, you should include a tin-foil hat with it.

- Carl
Hi Carl,

I'm not doubting what you believe, however I'm very sure the statements are slanderous and outright mean. If you were interested in debunking our technology you should have come to us and talked. We would be more than happy to give you a full demonstration of our products as well as a quick training session. This is not dousing, at least as far as Einstein believed dowsing worked. We had a similar experience with the U. S. army, however after using our detection technology they wanted them in the middle east where they are protecting the forward operating bases for incoming LED's and VBIED's.

Anytime you would like to understand more how this works, we would be happy to show you. It's very poor judgment to tell people you are an expert in this technology and find it not to work.

Thanks for your time and hope you are well.

Regards,

H3 Tec

[H3 Tec]

The show good. Carl and I talked about different things including the H3tec. I walked out the H3tec talk. My opinion from what I can see it is a dowsing rod cased in a wind proof window. The unit cost is 10,500 and 500.00 for each element. Each is leased for a year. So if you have silver and gold it will cost you 1000.00 a year to use the unit. Training is 1500.00 dollars. A resent repair cost 1500.00. You also have to sign a disclosure at purchase.

If the unit was truly all electronic sensing the 2 people that were testing the units would have had no problem detecting the silver I hid. That was not the case. I am just getting back from a trip. Carl I hope everything went well moving and your new job works out.

Tim
I'm am completely amazed Tim... I guess the blessings were just B.S. Sorry you took no time to understand or work with the technology. Not my fault I was there, and wanted to work with you.

[H3 Tec]

Carl,

Another thing to think about is what silver did you and Tim have, and what isotope was the silver? I'm pretty sure silver isn't silver, there is a broad range of isotopes correlated with silver, maybe you should find a PhD chemist and have him/her give you a quick course in the different isotope ranges of silver.

Just a thought.

[Theseus]

.....We had a similar experience with the U. S. army, however after using our detection technology they wanted them in the middle east where they are protecting the forward operating bases for incoming LED's and VBIED's.

Regards,

H3 Tec

OMG!!!!!! :shocked:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/pubs-sum/178913.htm

Please read pages 71-72 of the above report from the US Department of Justice. View the Adobe File, it is easier to find the subject pages.

[H3 Tec]

we are working with local city government for meth detection and law enforcement as well as the intermountain Bomb Squad, compromised of Sheriff, FBI, ATF... etc.
our big contracts are with oil work.

[Tim Williams]

H3tec Doesn't not the H3tec have a free moving rod? If so it is a dowsing rod. I'm not trying to start anything here just stating what I saw. They had a pound of US silver. I'm not knocking the H3tec just stating what I heard in the meeting.

Tim

[Carl-NC]

I'm not doubting what you believe, however I'm very sure the statements are slanderous and outright mean.

Only if my statements are false, which they are not.

If you were interested in debunking our technology you should have come to us and talked.

Oh, I did do that. The fellow I talked to started shoveling out all sorts of pseudo-scientific nonsense, which might work on the average technically illiterate wanna-be treasure hunter (I watched them swallowing it all the way to the sinker in your seminar), but not with me. When I told him he was shoveling nonsense, he switched gears and told me how the US government was buying units... as if I would believe the guv'ment to be the hallmark of purchasing wisdom.

We would be more than happy to give you a full demonstration of our products as well as a quick training session.

Well, I just might take you up on that. Would you do the demonstration under randomized double-blind conditions?

This is not dousing, at least as far as Einstein believed dowsing worked.

What makes you think Einstein believed dowsing works? And what makes you think your dowsing rod isn't a dowsing rod?

We had a similar experience with the U. S. army, however after using our detection technology they wanted them in the middle east where they are protecting the forward operating bases for incoming LED's and VBIED's.

Who can I contact to validate this claim?

Another thing to think about is what silver did you and Tim have, and what isotope was the silver? I'm pretty sure silver isn't silver, there is a broad range of isotopes correlated with silver, maybe you should find a PhD chemist and have him/her give you a quick course in the different isotope ranges of silver.

Well, it didn't take long to trot out the alibis. I'll add this one to my long list of El-Ar-El excuses for failure.

- Carl

[Tim Williams]

For those that do not know about H3tec here is some reading.

http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2007/12/04/h3tec-gaining-traction-on-google-deal

Tim

[J_Player]

Anytime you would like to understand more how this works, we would be happy to show you. It's very poor judgment to tell people you are an expert in this technology and find it not to work.This is a good idea. Show us all how it works.

You are posting in the biggest tech-oriented treasure machine forum on the planet. All eyes are watching to see what the engineers and tech people say and think here. We have heard an opinion by some people who saw your H3 Tech machine live, but this is only one side of the story. After reading your page, I am undecided in what to believe. Theoretically, it could be possible for your machine to work on the principle that you alluded to several times. But the real proof is in a live test to see if it works. If any other readers have read your page, then I suspect there are others who are undecided on whether your machine works or not.

On your web page, we see several claims you make about the details of how the H3 Tek works. You also posted some information to the effect that you had 100% positive results returned from others who tested your treasure locator. You have posted a summary of your involvement in the National Geographic documentary about gold, where you say "A small amount of gold was hidden in a location known to only one person. Then one of the team members was given an H3 device and told to go find the gold. It took all of about five minutes for the H3 technology to find it, buried out in a 50-acre field". (from: http://www.h3tec.com/faq.html ).
The theory seems plausible, and the claims of a working LRL seem too good to be true.

So the only questions remaining are:
1. Does it work well enough to demonstrate in front of the people who read this forum?
2. Will it find treasure for anyone who uses it according to the instructions?
3. Can it pass a double blind test?

So far, nobody who produces or uses a long range locator has been able to pass a double blind test and successfully show the location of a hidden treasure item 7 times out of 10 tries. Can the H3 Tec do this? Can it do something else useful to treasure hunters?

If so, tell us about it. Why not skip the hype and stories of amazed witnesses, and simply hold a demonstration for the people who read this forum. If we see it doing what you say is can do in front of us live, then who could complain that it does not work? Show us all how it can pass a double blind test. Show us it finding a hidden coin in a 50 acre field. If you want, tell us more about how it works. This sounds like a fascinating principle of operation.

Also, if it can correctly identify which of 10 locations the gold or silver has been hidden 7 times out of 10 tries from more than 10 feet distance, then take Carl's challenge for $25,000. We all including Car-NC are anxious to see some long-range locator pass this test. If the H3 Tec can pass this test, then the prize money will be only a small part of the money that will be coming your way. You can expect a fortune in sales orders to be flooding your email address, judging by the amount of readers who check into this forum regularly.

I also have an open invitation to anyone who can demonstrate their long range locator finding treasure in front of me live. I will videotape the demonstration and take photos, then post an article describing the demonstration on a professional web page with links to all the major treasure forums including this one. If I am impressed with the results, I may even buy an H3 Tec locator.

Best wishes,
J_P

[okantex]

Hi Everybody ,
I am agreee with J Player about blind test.

but I also wonder , will we have isotop problem in the field.,
we generally look for gold .and it has several compositions in production like 18k , 22k etc. when the time of waiting underground is added , it will have really different degrees ,cause of decration.
So, will the machine work or wait until it detects something delicious for itself.??? we do not want a machine which has attitudes like choosing between gold materials....

[J_Player]

but I also wonder , will we have isotop problem in the field.,Hi okanex,
There are two isotope problems. One, Carl's $25,000 challenge prohibits isotope machines. However, Carl has already seen the H3 Tec and stated that it is a dowsing machine, so there no problem in entering it into his challenge.

Now, supposing Carl might be wrong about the H3 Tec, and it really needs to recognize isotopes. Then there still is not a problem with the alloys of gold. Gold is gold, no matter what it is alloyed with. There is only one stable nuclide of gold which is almost always used for the purposes of isotope identification -- 79Au196. Regardless of the other non-gold impurities, this isotope will always ring true to a detector that is able to recognize it. However, we don't know for sure that the H3 Tec is looking for this nuclide, so it would be nice to have some more explanation from the H3 Tec people to see if there are indeed problems in recognizing gold.

This reminds me ... there is still an annoying question of why the H3 Tec failed to notice the silver bar in Carl's pocket when he walked in front of it. Isn't this the same kind of silver bar that a treasure hunter would like his treasure machine to locate when looking for treasure?
Hmmmm....

Best wishes,
J_P

[maimoune]

before giving any judgment, it must be understood
how H3 tec treasure work ,and follow a course
basic training .
Abderraouf

[H3 Tec]

yes it has a rod, however it is not free moving when the device is turned on. You should be careful to spread ill will, I'm pretty sure you don't understand the H3 nor the culture of making sure what you say is truth. I wish you would have taken as much time with us as you did with the people that were saying it did not work. Anytime you want to set up a test as the we did at Chemir to certify our claims, I would be more than happy to do so. It could be a ton of U.S. silver, if the isotope was silver 107, and they were looking for silver 109, they would miss it, because it wasn't looking for silver 109. We set the target to a specific atomic signature, and weight from the specific element mass, type, and isotopes. It's not a very simple process so I expect some push back from everyone that doesn't have an advanced Chemistry, physics, and engineering background. I'm not being arrogant it's is what it is. With our patents in place extensive claim work had to be done in order to satisfy the tests of the U.S. patent attorneys.
Anytime you would like to participate, I would love to show you and everyone else the H3 and how it actually works.

[H3 Tec]

you can rant all you want, and use your "intelligence" to say what you will. No one came to me at the show and asked me how the H3 worked, and if they could have a demonstration.

Funny thing you use this forum, bravery and up front honesty doesn't seem to be your hallmark.

Regards

[H3 Tec]

Yes, Yes, and Yes to all those questions. It had to pass a double blind test for clams certifications.

[Esteban]

Carl,

Another thing to think about is what silver did you and Tim have, and what isotope was the silver? I'm pretty sure silver isn't silver, there is a broad range of isotopes correlated with silver, maybe you should find a PhD chemist and have him/her give you a quick course in the different isotope ranges of silver.

Just a thought.

For example, abundance of both main silver and copper isotopes like showed in these tables? (fragment)

[Carl-NC]

Anytime you want to set up a test as the we did at Chemir to certify our claims, I would be more than happy to do so.

From the video I saw, this was not done in a randomized double-blind fashion, and so is worthless. My question remains unanswered:

Would you do the demonstration under randomized double-blind conditions?

...so I expect some push back from everyone that doesn't have an advanced Chemistry, physics, and engineering background.Do you have an advanced Chemistry, physics, and engineering background? As in any real degrees?

With our patents in place extensive claim work had to be done in order to satisfy the tests of the U.S. patent attorneys.You're talking to someone who has 16 patents. Patent attorneys don't require "tests," so now I know you're blowing smoke. In fact, you don't need to have anything physically working at all, and you never need to personally meet a patent attorney or an examiner. Just write up some true or false claims, mail 'em in, and you can get a patent. USPTO examiners are grossly overloaded and allow all sorts of nonsense to go unchecked.

I also recall the fellow at the booth telling me that you are working with one or more scientists at universities on your "technology" but, of course, he didn't know who they were. Perhaps when you tell me who I can contact in the U.S. Army you can tell me who these scientists are. I would like to follow up on these claims, as well as see you perform a live double-blind demonstration.

I'm eager, let's get started!

- Carl

[H3 Tec]

Something like that. I have a lot of charts also. I was referring to silver, not copper, but that's just a small fact when we were talking about silver. I'm sure I'm boring you. Because that's exactly what you are doing to me.

[H3 Tec]

Again, you have more knowledge than anyone I know. Maybe you should have come over and talked to me at the show. I was there for anyone to ask me anything that would help.

Thanks for all your insight. Now I can go back to my patent attorney's and demand some money back for all the office actions they must have drummed up.

[Theseus]

yes it has a rod, however it is not free moving when the device is turned on. << other stuff snipped >>

If the "rod" is not free moving when the device is turned on, then is there also NO requirement for the device to be held in the operator's hand?

Might it be clamped in a holding fixture, while waving the appropriate "isotope" of material in front of it --and does the rod then follow the movement of the target?

[Dell Winders]

Good point. Dell

[H3 Tec]

yes absolutely.. this ain't your grandma's dousing whirley gig

[Tim Williams]

The unit I saw and held had a free moving rod when it was turned on. From what I saw it made no difference if it was on or off the rod flopped around when the unit was tilted. The owner agrees with me on this. I think the rod should be converted to a led indication if it is a true electronic LRL.

My question is; the unit I saw is it the same unit the gov is using? Are you selling a different unit to the public? Let me know when you have it without the rod and I will take another look.

Tim

[H3 Tec]

well, of course there are many models. I'm not sure why you think I need your validation? But I will be glad to keep working with you. We have a new major release every 9 months.

[Tim Williams]

Good I look forward to the rod less unit.

Tim

[Carl-NC]

"yes it has a rod, however it is not free moving when the device is turned on."

Not what I saw at the show either, the rod flopped whether on or off.

I was also told you have to hold the device for it to work, can't mount it in a fixture.

H3, any response on a double-blind demonstration?

- Carl

[J_Player]

As time passes, we read more forum posts about the H3 Tec without much information being revealed concerning the details. According to Carl-NC and Tim Williams, it is a dowsing rod in a fancy case. It would be easy to say that Carl is a confirmed skeptic, and is giving a biased report. But Tim Williams -- the LRL man? If anyone should know what a dowsing rod is, I would expect Tim to know.

Then we have the posts by H3 Tec, saying it is not a dowsing rod, but an electronic device. But after several posts, we still don't see much details about what it actually does, except some comments about isotopes that the detector must be adjusted to. Apparently H3 Tec did not read my post requesting that they explain more about how it works, or set up a demonstration for the people who read this forum.

But there is more information. On the H3 Tec website, there are a lot of interesting explanations of how this machine works.
For example, the H3 Tec people coined the term "nano-ionic resonance" to describe the process of "listening to atoms talk" in the method used by their LRL. "H3 Tec has made important discoveries which, added to the existing known and established sciences, provide a method of talking to and listening to each atom's voice". See this page: http://www.h3tec.com/faq.html

We also can read where the H3 Tec is characterized a "treasure tricorder" on this page that shows a picture of the LRL: http://www.h3tec.com/product.html

While the words on the H3 Tec site don't mean much technically, we see a clue in H3 Tec's forum posts that points in the direction of isotope detection. Ok, so there we have it. The forum members who saw the H3 Tec LRL at the show think it is a fancy dowsing rod, and H3 Tec says no, it is an electronic isotope detector that works long range.

But wait...
There is still that annoying problem of why didn't the H3 Tec notice the 10 oz silver bar in Carl's pocket as he walked in front of it when they were scanning for silver?
In fact, why weren't they able to detect the silver Tim Williams hid either?

Again, we see H3 Tec's answer is it is looking for specific isotopes of the treasure:
It could be a ton of U.S. silver, if the isotope was silver 107, and they were looking for silver 109, they would miss it, because it wasn't looking for silver 109. We set the target to a specific atomic signature, and weight from the specific element mass, type, and isotopes. It's not a very simple process so I expect some push back from everyone that doesn't have an advanced Chemistry, physics, and engineering background.Sounds reasonable, right?
You are set for the wrong isotope then you don't find the treasure?
Sure it sounds reasonable if you are technically illiterate.

Should we presume that of the two stable isotopes of silver, that they happened to be set up for the other isotope of silver different from the isotope of silver that was contained in the 10-oz bar in Carl's pocket?
How stupid do you think we are?
It has been long established that all silver found in nature is composed of about half of the isotope 107 and half of the isotope 109*. Are we to believe that there was some amazing exception to the bar hidden in Carl's pocket, and it was composed only of the silver isotopes that your detector wasn't set to?
It was not about half of each isotope, same as the silver you were searching for?

And what about the silver that Tim Williams hid? What was the trouble in finding that silver?

We see the H3 Tec website with pseudoscientific descriptions of the process, lots of hype about amazed customers and a really half-baked post in this forum to explain why it cannot find silver when the operator of the device does not know it is there. After reading up on H3 Tec, my pinion is becoming more decided in the direction of Carl-NC and Tim Williams. Hopefully the H3 Tec people can show us something substantial to help us believe this LRL can actually find treasure.

Best wishes,
J_P


* The percentage of isotope Ag107 was only found to be measurably different in an iron meteorite that had a high enough palladium to silver ratio that would allow the radioactive decay of palladium 107 into silver 107 isotope over many billions of years. All other natural silver found on earth has the standard percentage of Ag107 (51.839%) and Ag109 (48.161).

[Theseus]

All good points J_Player, but no real concrete info from H3. When eye witnesses agree it is a "free-flopping" rod (switch On or Off) I find it hard to fathom how it could be anything else but another ideomotor-driven dowsing wand with added do-nothing electronics, which basically senses gravity and gentle breezes.

If H3 really have come up with a technology able to sense hidden/buried treasure - why burden the concept with error-prone flopping L-rods. Seems like the readout should be a digital meter, or LEDs or......... something other than a readout that resembles "grandma's dowsing stick". :D

[hung]

H3Tec,

I have no doubt that nano ionic resonance technology when properly understood works. Proof of that is Mineoro's ionic rods IGD and DIAS, their electronic devices, the RT Examiner along with many so called dowsing based rods.

The fact that you claim H3Tec works on specific isotope chains for a perfect fine tuning of the element, brings up some inconveniences such as requring the user to switch 'combos' for that specific isotope as you said yourself. Considering the amount of elements in the periodic table and the isotopes involved, this would be at minimum, extremely awkward.

Note that this is my prelimary impression as I don't have the exact data on how your detectors were made. I just have the data you provided on your site and also here in this discussion. Also, not even a manual is available for details.

I see there's a needle which indicates activity. Wheter its movement is produced by electronic excitation of the circuit or by external source for alignment, still is not clear. But considering real life detection conditions for silver for instance in which different type of isotopes are found and even mixed, probably spin resonance should have been considered to gather more data from the sought element.

I also noticed the extremely high price tag for the device.
It seems H3Tec is based in a Country really far from the US where the severe financial crisis has hit and would be almost impossible for a common person have financial acess to one of these devices.

Unless H3Tec wants their customers to start a 'closed comunity' as the Illuminati, with only the wealth and rich being able to use their devices.:lol:

With all respect, with a simple and much cheaper RT Examiner, the same results are achieved and better yet, estimates on target's data, distance, shape, weight and depth are possible.

As a final word, if you take Carl's pseudo scientific conclusions on your device, you will waste your time and you will be lost. He used the same argument about your device not being able to detect a silver sample he had in his pocket, as he did once with the RT Examiner. He completely ignored that in the Examiner's case if it's tuned to a specific target shape or mass, it will exclude anything different from that, even if it's derived from the same substance.
So, if it's programmed to detect a loop shape gold object, it won't detect a gold bar for instance. The knob also acts as an amplitude limiter, so even if it's set for gold including all objects, if it is set for small mass, it will ignore bigger targets.
Is it a perfect failproof device? Of course not, but it's a great tool for the buck.

Hope soon H3Tec provides a user manual in their site and also demo videos showing how the device is used.
But so far as I said, the price tag is unreal and utopic in my opinion.

Anyway, good luck with your device and welcome to the LRL arena.:)

[Theseus]

H3Tec,

I have no doubt that nano ionic resonance technology when properly understood works.

No big surprise you would think that way! What's your opinion of Heberstadt Octabier Reflective Hefershafts? :D

As a final word, if you take Carl's pseudo scientific conclusions on your device, you will waste your time and you will be lost. He used the same argument about your device not being able to detect a silver sample he had in his pocket, as he did once with the RT Examiner. He completely ignored that in the Examiner's case if it's tuned to a specific target shape or mass, it will exclude anything different from that, even if it's derived from the same substance.
So, if it's programmed to detect a loop shape gold object, it won't detect a gold bar for instance. The knob also acts as an amplitude limiter, so even if it's set for gold including all objects, if it is set for small mass, it will ignore bigger targets.
Hey, Hung, April Fool's was several days ago. :lol:

Yawn.... when does the debunkering start???

[Dell Winders]

What's your opinion of Heberstadt Octabier Reflective Hefershafts?

That it is a stupid quote used by Skeptic Nut case, Sam Scafferi!
:lol: :lol: :lol: Dell

[J_Player]

If H3 really have come up with a technology able to sense hidden/buried treasure - why burden the concept with error-prone flopping L-rods. Seems like the readout should be a digital meter, or LEDs or.........Hi Theseus,
I could care less how it finds treasure. What about the fact that it failed to find treasure twice when the operator of the LRL did not know the treasure is nearby?
Doesn't this make it pretty useless to a treasure hunter?

There is no such thing as special silver that has a different isotope signature than other silver in the treasure hunting world. Wierd Isotopes of silver are mostly synthetic, and have a very short half life. Thus, they don't exist in any substantial amount outside the laboratory on account of they fizzled away shortly after they were formed, decaying into lead or cadmium.

Suppose your VLF detector failed to discriminate between iron and a pure silver bar?
Would you claim that your VLF detector couldn't find the bar because it is low-conductivity magnetic silver, not the high conductivity non-magnetic silver that you set the discrimination for? Are any of the readers of this forum stupid enough to believe that?
Or stupid enough to believe treasure silver has different isotopic compositions?

Oh yes... there's hung. He would believe that. He is the same reader who believes the Ranger Tell contains transmitting equipment that shoots a signal line that is returned. And that Gold has DNA which produces a substance that protects the surface of the metal from corrosion. So why not believe that silver hidden in a field could have a different composition of isotopes than silver in Carl's pocket?

Actually I wouldn't feel too bad if hung bought one of the H3 Tec units and signed up for advanced training. It's the other ignorant people who swallow this crap and pay a huge price tag that concern me.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

With all respect, with a simple and much cheaper RT Examiner, the same results are achieved and better yet, estimates on target's data, distance, shape, weight and depth are possible.


In all honesty, I find these same estimates on target data are obtainable with Carl's cheap frequency generator, a weight check, or frequency offset, and a pair of Dowsing Rods. Dell

[Theseus]

In all honesty...????? Dell

Honest? Honesty??? ....now there's a laugh. :lol: :lol:

And this coming from the guy that is trying to sell "paint-roller handles" as treasure finding contraptions. :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

Oh. I forgot, the paint roller handle thingy actually works according to the principles detailed by Albert Einstein concerning hydrocolonic linked ionic resonance patterns arising sporadically from frequency-excited neutrons in sympathetic resonance with the plastic weighted capsules in the center of the wand. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Dell Winders]

Oh. I forgot, the paint roller handle thingy actually works according to the principles detailed by Albert Einstein concerning hydrocolonic linked ionic resonance patterns arising sporadically from frequency-excited neutrons in sympathetic resonance with the plastic weighted capsules in the center of the wand

Now there's a typical skeptic nut case scientific explanation for your ignorance. Did you imagine you also saw it walk, and quack like a Duck?

[Theseus]

Now there's a typical skeptic nut case scientific explanation for your ignorance. Did you imagine you also saw it walk, and quack like a Duck?

Certainly glad you understood that explanation; I was trying to put it in terms and pseudo-technical jargon like I've heard you and other wallet-miners manufacture out of thin air. Guess I succeeded! :razz: :razz:

:lol::lol::lol:

[Dell Winders]

A typical rationale to satisfy your pretend, "A am a scientist " fantasy. Certainly laughable. Dell

[Fred]

H3tec, for the sake of clarity, in the lower right corner of each message there is a "quote" button,if you use it readers will know to wich message you are answering.:rolleyes:
Otherwise it is a mess.

[Dell Winders]

In all honesty, I find these same estimates on target data are obtainable with Carl's cheap frequency generator, a weight check, or frequency offset, and a pair of Dowsing Rods. Dell

Getting back to the subject. Although true, maybe I did make a bit of a stretch using Carl's FG as an example. It will be harder to obtain data using his circuit.

Personally, I prefer Tim Williams, LRL for accuracy. Being honest, I can't say anything about the RT Examiner, or the H3 tec. I have never field tested them. Have You? Dell

[Carl-NC]

Another funny thing I recalled... when the H3Tec fellow I was talking to insisted their contraption was not a dowsing rod, I asked, "So how is this different from Electroscope, or Treasure Scope, or Lectra Search, or Vector Trek?" He said he had never heard of those names.

I thought it odd that a company wouldn't even be aware of who their competition is.

- Carl

[Dell Winders]

Perhaps you should have also asked if they heard of the name "Omnitron" and Dell Winders. If not, it's probably because not many people read your forum, or you haven't been able to find enough bad things to say about me, over the years. Dell

[Morgan]

H3Tec,

I have no doubt that nano ionic resonance technology when properly understood works. Proof of that is Mineoro's ionic rods IGD and DIAS, their electronic devices, the RT Examiner along with many so called dowsing based rods.

The fact that you claim H3Tec works on specific isotope chains for a perfect fine tuning of the element, brings up some inconveniences such as requring the user to switch 'combos' for that specific isotope as you said yourself. Considering the amount of elements in the periodic table and the isotopes involved, this would be at minimum, extremely awkward.

Note that this is my prelimary impression as I don't have the exact data on how your detectors were made. I just have the data you provided on your site and also here in this discussion. Also, not even a manual is available for details.

I see there's a needle which indicates activity. Wheter its movement is produced by electronic excitation of the circuit or by external source for alignment, still is not clear. But considering real life detection conditions for silver for instance in which different type of isotopes are found and even mixed, probably spin resonance should have been considered to gather more data from the sought element.

I also noticed the extremely high price tag for the device.
It seems H3Tec is based in a Country really far from the US where the severe financial crisis has hit and would be almost impossible for a common person have financial acess to one of these devices.

Unless H3Tec wants their customers to start a 'closed comunity' as the Illuminati, with only the wealth and rich being able to use their devices.:lol:

With all respect, with a simple and much cheaper RT Examiner, the same results are achieved and better yet, estimates on target's data, distance, shape, weight and depth are possible.

As a final word, if you take Carl's pseudo scientific conclusions on your device, you will waste your time and you will be lost. He used the same argument about your device not being able to detect a silver sample he had in his pocket, as he did once with the RT Examiner. He completely ignored that in the Examiner's case if it's tuned to a specific target shape or mass, it will exclude anything different from that, even if it's derived from the same substance.
So, if it's programmed to detect a loop shape gold object, it won't detect a gold bar for instance. The knob also acts as an amplitude limiter, so even if it's set for gold including all objects, if it is set for small mass, it will ignore bigger targets.
Is it a perfect failproof device? Of course not, but it's a great tool for the buck.

Hope soon H3Tec provides a user manual in their site and also demo videos showing how the device is used.
But so far as I said, the price tag is unreal and utopic in my opinion.

Anyway, good luck with your device and welcome to the LRL arena.:)
Hello Hung

And what is the price for this H3Tec ,much more than the Tyon?

Regards

[hung]

Hello Hung

And what is the price for this H3Tec ,much more than the Tyon?





The unit cost is 10,500 and 500.00 for each element. Each is leased for a year. So if you have silver and gold it will cost you 1000.00 a year to use the unit. Training is 1500.00 dollars. A resent repair cost 1500.00. You also have to sign a disclosure at purchase.
Tim
.

[Fred]

he unit cost is 10,500 and 500.00 for each element. Each is leased for a year. So if you have silver and gold it will cost you 1000.00 a year to use the unit. Training is 1500.00 dollars. A resent repair cost 1500.00. You also have to sign a disclosure at purchase.

:drool: :barf:

[Morgan]

.
:shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked::shoc ked::shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked:

[Carl-NC]

Anyone want to guess what I've gotten a hold of? :p

[Qiaozhi]

Anyone want to guess what I've gotten a hold of? :p
Is it one of these?
.
.

[Jim]

grandma's dousing whirley gig

[Carl-NC]

Is it one of these?


Bingo!

Now we can see once and for all whether this thing quacks.

[Theseus]

Bingo!

Now we can see once and for all whether this thing quacks.

I'm betting it quacks. :)

[Mike(Mont)]

Carl can't seem to work a simple MFD and L-rod. Does anyone really think this one will be any different? Just like with every other device he attempted to use, all this will prove is that he can't use one. We already know that. SSDD

[Qiaozhi]

Carl can't seem to work a simple MFD and L-rod. Does anyone really think this one will be any different? Just like with every other device he attempted to use, all this will prove is that he can't use one. We already know that. SSDD
:lol: Must be that left-handed problem again. :rolleyes:

[hung]

Carl can't seem to work a simple MFD and L-rod. Does anyone really think this one will be any different? Just like with every other device he attempted to use, all this will prove is that he can't use one. We already know that. SSDD

Right on Mike. Carl's statements and reports about LRLs are a complete joke and also are fake.
His post here is irrelevant regarding the H3Tec.
I would probably pay attention if an unbiased person tested it.
The only thing relevant to find out is whether Carl is a complete handicap regarding those devices or he has an agenda to protect anything that can harm conventional MD toys specially now he works for some manufacturer.

Don't take this seriously. Heck, I don't even need to tell you that Mike, you know this very well.:cool:
As always he will say the thing can't possibly work, he tested and it did not detect anything. Oh... What a shocker...

Regards.

[Mike(Mont)]

You got that right, Hung. Moreso, there is an implication that it's scientific "proof".

Whether the device works or not, I don't know. I have heard a couple reports of not-so-good results, but I doubt these people had much if any experience with it or any locator.

[Theseus]

I would probably pay attention if an unbiased person tested it.


Probably????

Probably anyone who tested it and did not get it to work as advertised (claimed), would be a "biased" person in your opinion.

Get real, Hung.

If the H3Tec is more than just another dowsing rod in disguise, I'm sure Carl will make that fact known. I'm also sure if the thing turns out to be another intuition indicator, he will tell us that too.

Incidentally, no one needs to protect the MD industry from your pseudo-science contraptions. If anything, the MD industry will sell more units, since all LRLs seem to have a terrible time honing in on possible targets.

Once the LRL is used to box in the target to a 25 or 40 foot square area, then the MDs come out so something of value can be found, thus satisfying the ego and the "belief system" of the LRL operator. :p
:lol:

[Qiaozhi]

Carl can't seem to work a simple MFD and L-rod. Does anyone really think this one will be any different? Just like with every other device he attempted to use, all this will prove is that he can't use one. We already know that. SSDD

Right on Mike. Carl's statements and reports about LRLs are a complete joke and also are fake.
His post here is irrelevant regarding the H3Tec.
I would probably pay attention if an unbiased person tested it.
The only thing relevant to find out is whether Carl is a complete handicap regarding those devices or he has an agenda to protect anything that can harm conventional MD toys specially now he works for some manufacturer.

Don't take this seriously. Heck, I don't even need to tell you that Mike, you know this very well.:cool:
As always he will say the thing can't possibly work, he tested and it did not detect anything. Oh... What a shocker...

Regards.
According to H3 Tec's website, this gizmo uses Nano-Ionic Resonance ... so it's not a dowsing device, or at least that is the implication. If this is the case, then Mike's comment, "Carl can't seem to work a simple MFD and L-rod.", and Hung's statement, "The only thing relevant to find out is whether Carl is a complete handicap regarding those devices...", have no bearing here.

This is the H3 Tec blurb ->

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nano-Ionic Resonance™ (NIR) is the patented and branded technology inside all H3 Tec licensed devices. If it isn't licensed by H3 Tec, it isn't using NIR™ technology. From handheld detectors to the advanced chip sets inside flying drones and satellites, NIR is on the way to becoming the industry standard for long-range detection of natural resources and harmful substances.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

So the question is whether Nano-Ionic Resonance™ (NIR) is really patented, or is this just a load of bull? I guess we will find out the ugly truth fairly soon. :D

[Seden]

Carl,

That is very good news! It will be your best report to date once you crack that thing open and take pictures,backward engineer a schematic-wow!

Randy

[J_Player]

Do I hear whining from the same old mildly retarded LRL enthusiasts? Are these the same whiners who claim no testing done by a skeptic is valid, while they refuse to demonstrate any tests in front of the same skeptics to prove they are right? It seems to me that if any LRL enthusiast wanted people to believe a long range detector works, then they would demonstrate it working instead of simply claiming they find lots of stuff. But we don't see this. We only hear talk about how they really, really work, and anyone who says they don't work shouldn't be listened to.

So what does all this talk mean? Nothing.
I have already discovered that it is not worthwhile to listen to what Dr. hung claims to be true. (Isn't this the same hung who told us that gold DNA produces a substance that coats the metal surface to fight against oxidation)?
But even the people who say it can't work are simply giving opinions, not telling us anything we don't already know. What really counts is some real, credible tests that show what the thing does or does not do. So I will listen to people who show real evidence that it works or does not.

Some recent events with magic bomb detectors that sell for $30,000-$60,000 each:
We know the Quadro Tracker is no longer sold in the USA since the makers were arrested by the FBI for fraud and it was banned in 1996. Sales were then moved to the UK with a new nameplate called the "Mole". Today a UK manufacturer sells the ADE651 which is identical to the Quadro Trakcer in a new color, and the GT200 (Sniffex) to the governments of Afganistan, Iraq and Thailand among others. But then a BBC Newsnight investigation into the "magic wand detectors" was broadcast on 22 January 2010. Then the maker of the ADE651 and the GT200 bomb locators was arrested in Britain on suspicion of fraud, and the devices were banned for export to Iraq and Afghanistan. Read the story here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/8520303.stm

Here is one page that lists the H3Tec detector along with the Sniffex and other similar detectors that look similar to a dowsing rod: http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/
Be sure to watch the video of the GT200 being opened in Tailand to show the electronics inside that makes it worth £22,000 ($36,000). You now have a clear view of what the circuit inside is reading when you insert one of the cards in the handle to set the machine to read any particular substance. The government of Thailand has since banned the use of the GT200 for locating bombs.


But why is the H3Tec locator is listed among the Sniffex, GT200, Mole, Quadro tracker and ADE651?
Isn't the H3Tec claimed to be new high tech electronics that uses Nano-ionic resonance to locate any substance?

Nano resonance is an emerging field that focuses on light absorption spectropscopy, using nano-substrates to enhance the detection of specific light frequencies. Somehow, this doesn't seem like a proper technology to use for locating things that may be buried or hidden behind other objects. Nano resonance is an experimental laboratory technology at this stage, with much improvement needed before it is incorporated into mainstream components. The uses that scientists see for this technology are in medical diagnosis instruments, enhanced optics, spectroscopy, microscopes and products such as LEDs. Scientists do not see nano-resonance as a viable long-range detection technology, but they think it can improve laboratory instruments and possibly make LEDs brighter.

And now we have H3Tec telling us they have a super-expensive LRL that can locate gold and any other substance at up to 10 miles range using nano-ionic resonance methods. It seems doubtful they produced the silicon substrates needed for the enhancements that come from nano-resonance, but even more doubtful that nano resonance can detect any buried treasure at up to 10 miles distance. However, this is only my opinion. Since we cannot see the substrates they are using in their chips without destroying them, the only viable test for the H3Tec seems to test it and see what it detects. It would also be good to take a look at the circuit boards to see what kind of sensors are installed and how they are interfaced to the electronics. This would give some basic clues to whether this is another Quadro Tracker style scam or maybe a legitimate machine.

About for testing the H3Tec locator...
So what's so hard about testing a H3Tec detector? See this guy using one?
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12054&stc=1&d=1273398466
If he can do it, then why can't anyone can do it regardless of their education or skill levels? After all, the manufacturer of this locator says it detects any substance utilising the principle of nano-ionic resonance. A nano-resonant sensor connected to a test machine only requires that the operator turn on the machine and operate it to identify a substance. So there is no dowsing necessary in order for it to work. Simply turn it on and let it find the hidden substance at a distance up to 10 miles.

I will be looking forward to Carl's report, and any other reports from people who run credible tests on this locator.

Best Wishes,
J_P

[Carl-NC]

I would probably pay attention if an unbiased person tested it.

Would you consider the owner of H3Tec to be biased? If he agrees to a randomized double-blind test, would you accept the results?

[Qiaozhi]

http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/
Be sure to watch the video of the GT200 being opened in Tailand to show the electronics inside that makes it worth £22,000 ($36,000).
Message to Hung and Mike Mont - try defending that! :razz:

[Mike(Mont)]

The photo I saw said "Radioactive". Probably just put there to scare you from opening it. If your hair stats to fall out you probably got too much. Oh, guess I'm too late.

[TruthQuest]

I have just used and tested an H3 that was purchased within the last six months. On the device cover it says its patented under patent 60/747.894. Does anyone know where to find this patent?

[Jim]

I have just used and tested an H3 that was purchased within the last six months. On the device cover it says its patented under patent 60/747.894. Does anyone know where to find this patent?

Is this what you are looking for?

http://tinyurl.com/2bclznb

[Clondike Clad]

If you consider reference to a duck a scientific explanation you are the most ignorant pretend scientist to post such stupidity on the internet.

The question to be answered, was the claimed Dowsing rod (?) being used in a meta-physics application, or a physics application?

There is a huge difference.

You are right, Tim Williams, is a good guy. So am I.

I don't know how you conned Whites, into hiring you, but it's obvious that whatever Kenny, is paying you , he's getting ripped off by a scientific pretender Dell. Quack! Quack!


It has been some time ,but not one thing has changed on this site.
LRL don't work,scammer are still scammimg.
Fools are still fools.
10oz of silver?????? I can detect that with a XL PRO with a 25inch coil and Carl can't walk pass me.WHY CAN A LRL WHO CAN DETECT FOR MILES CAN"T PICK UP A 10 oz SILVER BAR.
CLUE......LRL AT THIS TIME DON'T WORK............:nono:

[TruthQuest]

Is this what you are looking for?

http://tinyurl.com/2bclznb (http://tinyurl.com/2bclznb)

Thanks Jim! Exactly what I was looking for. May your helpful actions chase you down and cause you to be blessed beyond measure! hehe :)

[Götz von Berlichingen]

So, any News about whats inside the H3Tec "Treasure Tricorder" ? :rolleyes:

[Jim]

Thanks Jim! Exactly what I was looking for. May your helpful actions chase you down and cause you to be blessed beyond measure! hehe :)

Not a problem.

How did your test with the H3 go? Is it everything you hoped it would be?

[TruthQuest]

The owner/operator of the H3 was very inexperienced so we didn't get the results we had hoped. When I used it myself it seemed to work much better but I knew too much about the test targets so my results would have to be considered mind biased.

Not a problem.

How did your test with the H3 go? Is it everything you hoped it would be?

[Jim]

The owner/operator of the H3 was very inexperienced so we didn't get the results we had hoped. When I used it myself it seemed to work much better but I knew too much about the test targets so my results would have to be considered mind biased.

Thank you for your honest reply :thumb:

[serge]

It seems that "proper training" is crucial in operating these devices and in all cases concerning them, the experience of the operator is one important factor in the accuracy of the "scan".
What is important to note is that, you can produce TOO much power and 'over-attenuate' the signals received. Some advanced knowledge of 'search-techniques would be very useful as would any associated knowledge you may have with respect to 'cross-contamination' states the http://www.ade651.co.uk/ade-651-faq.html#q07 (http://ade651.co.uk/ade-651-faq.html#q07) ADE 651 official site, on its FAQs page.

[Orbit]

If it were all like in Hollywood movies Although I have heard that some have made detector for gold and silver which is mounted on the robot, just turn on and he asks if they find that I dig and bring pss:lol::D

[Orbit]

Ehpore 5000 the company OKM purchased as soon as she came out of production ,and paid with all the little things 40.000 euros ,bought by my acquaintance can freely say that is not worth more than 200 to 300 euros how is it spent,I personally tried on, but make it in science fiction films can easily use them.

[Orbit]

Tesla is not alive, unfortunately.

[ernst.filibert]

I have found over the internet the ADE 651 maufacturer's website (http://www.atscltd.com). What do you think about that?

[aroundyou]

I also find ADE 651 website (http://www.ade651.co.uk/) and here are more details about ADE651.
In my opinion after reading sciencific explination on their site this can be done.

[Qiaozhi]

I also find ADE 651 website (http://www.ade651.co.uk/) and here are more details about ADE651.
In my opinion after reading sciencific explination on their site this can be done.
In that case you are easily convinced. :rolleyes:
It's actually nothing more than an expensive dowsing rod.

[ernst.filibert]

I also find ADE 651 website (http://www.ade651.co.uk/) and here are more details about ADE651.
In my opinion after reading sciencific explination on their site this can be done.

I can't belive they have an entire site dedicated. Can anybody understand the way it works? :???:

[Qiaozhi]

I can't belive they have an entire site dedicated. Can anybody understand the way it works? :???:
Believe it!
The truth is that it doesn't work. It's a simple dowsing rod.

[ernst.filibert]

But they are a big company ... and from their site ATSC LTD (http://www.atscltd.com) there are more security equipments ...

[Qiaozhi]

But they are a big company ... and from their site ATSC LTD (http://www.atscltd.com) there are more security equipments ...
Don't be fooled by the facade. Having a few legitimate working products in their portfolio doesn't change the fact that the ADE is a simple dowsing rod.

[J_Player]

But they are a big company ... and from their site ATSC LTD (http://www.atscltd.com) there are more security equipments ...You have been warned by some of the best metal detecting engineers in the world by reading this forum. You can also look here to see whats inside this fake bomb detector: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8471187.stm

The owner of the company was arrested in the UK for suspicion of fraud connected with his selling fradulent bomb detectors. A ban was place against exporting these fake detectors to Iraq and Afganistan. Read about it here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/22/dowsing_rod_bomb_detector_bust/
and here: http://brucemhood.wordpress.com/2011/02/18/woo-bombdetector-crooks-finally-getting-their-just-desserts/
and here: http://ade651gt200scamfraud.blogspot.com/search/label/Fake%20Explosive%20Detectors

You have read the warnings and how the company owner was arrested, and the fake detectors were banned in the countries where people used them and were killed because they did not work. If you still believe this is a good tool for detecting bombs and other hidden stuff, maybe you should get out your wallet and send some money to these people and buy one of these detectors so you can see for yourself how good it works. (I suggest you try to use it for finding treasures, not for clearing a field of landmines).

In case you haven't figured it out, nobody here with any electronics knowledge believes this gadget can be relied on to find anything. And we all know it is a fake detector designed to build big profits for the owner which they extract from the buyer of the detector (you). -- And we don't care what their web page looks like or who says they really work. We know better.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Rudy]

Don't be fooled by the facade. Having a few legitimate working products in their portfolio doesn't change the fact that the ADE is a simple dowsing rod.

You have been warned by some of the best metal detecting engineers in the world by reading this forum. You can also look here to see whats inside this fake bomb detector: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8471187.stm

The owner of the company was arrested in the UK for suspicion of fraud connected with his selling fradulent bomb detectors. A ban was place against exporting these fake detectors to Iraq and Afganistan. Read about it here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/22/dowsing_rod_bomb_detector_bust/
and here: http://brucemhood.wordpress.com/2011/02/18/woo-bombdetector-crooks-finally-getting-their-just-desserts/
and here: http://ade651gt200scamfraud.blogspot.com/search/label/Fake%20Explosive%20Detectors

You have read the warnings and how the company owner was arrested, and the fake detectors were banned in the countries where people used them and were killed because they did not work. If you still believe this is a good tool for detecting bombs and other hidden stuff, maybe you should get out your wallet and send some money to these people and buy one of these detectors so you can see for yourself how good it works. (I suggest you try to use it for finding treasures, not for clearing a field of landmines).

In case you haven't figured it out, nobody here with any electronics knowledge believes this gadget can be relied on to find anything. And we all know it is a fake detector designed to build big profits for the owner which they extract from the buyer of the detector (you). -- And we don't care what their web page looks like or who says they really work. We know better.

Best wishes,
J_P


We may be in the process of witnessing the natural selection process where nature preferentially selects certain genes for survival and passing to subsequent generations, while other genes do not. :shocked:

[Qiaozhi]

We may be in the process of witnessing the natural selection process where nature preferentially selects certain genes for survival and passing to subsequent generations, while other genes do not. :shocked:
Interesting ... perhaps they should re-market the ADE as an electronic gene selection tool.
:rolleyes:

[J_Player]

Interesting ... perhaps they should re-market the ADE as an electronic gene selection tool.
:rolleyes:This might work.
Any hillbilly treasure hunter with a 6th grade education would gladly use one of these tools to take with them when they go to shop for clothes to use as a valuable aid for selecting which pair of Levis they should buy.
I bet they wouldn't notice any disparity between the cost of the gene-selection tool and the cost of the jeans that the detector points out for them to buy.

Best wishes,
J_P

[coae]

But they are a big company ... and from their site ATSC LTD (http://www.atscltd.com) there are more security equipments ...

I saw the BBC reportages and they seem a little bit forced. The truth is somewhere in the middle, in my opinion.

[Qiaozhi]

I saw the BBC reportages and they seem a little bit forced. The truth is somewhere in the middle, in my opinion.
Don't be deceived into believing the BBC twisted the facts in any way. The truth is simply that the ATSC device cannot detect explosives ... period. It is just a dowsing rod, and therefore responds to the ideomotor effect. It's all in the mind of the operator.

[coae]

And how do explain all that scientific arguments from ATSC LTD (http://www.atscltd.com) website?
There are some arguments that make you think. I don’t say this is working but in some way I think it can be done. Don't you think?
:shocked:

[Qiaozhi]

And how do explain all that scientific arguments from ATSC LTD (http://www.atscltd.com) website?
These are not real scientific arguments. It's just pseudoscientific gobbledygook.
There are some arguments that make you think.
The only thing it makes me think is how could anyone could be fooled by such nonsense.
I don’t say this is working but in some way I think it can be done. Don't you think?:shocked:
Definitely not!

[hung]

Hey, it finally happened !

Ozhi in complete desperation on why his cloned PD cannot work no matter what kind of black magic he throws over it, finally decided to come to South America to meet Alonso to beg him to find out what is wrong with his clone.

Of course, this real intention had to be secret so he arranged a show in Sao Paulo this saturday night as undercover.

Check:
http://entretenimento.r7.com/musica/noticias/cantor-ozzy-osbourne-mostra-os-seus-classicos-no-estadio-do-morumbi-sp-20110402.html

I will try to translate a little so members can follow.

' Singer and metal detector enthusiast Ozhi, comes to Brazil for the second time for a concert (wow... how come I have missed the first one?).
Joined by his band (JP, WM6 and Carl?), he came to introduce his new CD: 'A dowsing skeptic is a skeptic trick of the mind'.

Good luck ozzy, I would show up to talk to you, but I'm into jazz and hate heavy metal.
I also think it would not be a good idea paying Alonso in concert tickets. So watch out.

PS. Sorry folks, couldn't resist.:lol:

[Qiaozhi]

As I said previously, "The only thing it makes me think is how could anyone could be fooled by such nonsense.". Then along comes Hung to demonstrate that there is always one exception to the rule. :razz:

[J_Player]

And how do explain all that scientific arguments from ATSC LTD (http://www.atscltd.com) website?
There are some arguments that make you think. I don’t say this is working but in some way I think it can be done. Don't you think?
:shocked:Hi coae,
I read all of the words on that website and I do not see any of their arguments that make me think anything except they are lying. Here are some examples:

1. "The ADE works on a principal we have termed as Electro-Magnetic Attraction. The principle for long range detection is based on the substance excitation that needs to be detected, with an electromagnetic field that propagates on a long distance..."
This is a lie.
The ADE was tested and found to have no eletronic equipment that can propagate a magnetic field.
In fact it has no electronic equipment at all.
No laboratory that tested ADE equipment were able to find any magnetic field propagating from the detector.

2. "By programming the detection cards to specifically target a particular substance material, (through the proprietary process of electro-static matching of the charge and structure of the substance), the ADE651® will "by-pass" all currently known attempts to conceal the target."
This is another lie.
The cards are simple security cards used to set off an alarm when a shoplifter carries it past an electronic RFID sensor door.
These cards do not have any power supply or ability to generate a magnetic field. They can only be read by other electronic equipment which storekeepers hide in a door, and which does not exist in the ADE detector.

3. All of the other arguments for ADE on that web page are meaningless, because they presume the locator can detect substances, which it cannot.
This includes all arguments such as:
"simultaneous detectionof multiple types of explosives or drugs"
"ignores concealment methods"
"...requires no ongoing maintenance service contracts"
etc.

Even their test videos are fake.
We see the real test videos on the 6pm news when people are killed by car bombs that went past the ADE without being detected.

None of thier arguments make me think anything except they published a bunch of lies, and ended up being arrested for it.
But their products page made me think...
I see they also have several real metal detecting systems for sale.
When I see the images of their door scanners and metal detecting doors, it reminds me of the Mineoro people. They also manufacture and sell electronic door systems.
It makes me wonder if ATSC thought it is a good business strategy to include a number of working detectors in their product line in order to improve the credibility of their main product, the ADE 651.

If anyone believes the principles that ATSC argues for work, then I challenge them to bring an ADE 651 to a minefield and show me how they can locate all the mines.
I have a minefield available at a military base near Los Angeles where I can watch from a distance with a video camera.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

I have a minefield available at a military base near Los Angeles where I can watch from a distance with a video camera.

Best wishes,
J_P
Please send Hung a personal invitation to take part in the testing, but make sure it's in front of the camera and not behind it. We've already seen enough fake videos. :lol:

[Rudy]

Please send Hung a personal invitation to take part in the testing, but make sure it's in front of the camera and not behind it. We've already seen enough fake videos. :lol:

What a marvelous idea. He should be allowed to take his favorite 3 best LRLs with him on the experiment.

[J_Player]

What a marvelous idea. He should be allowed to take his favorite 3 best LRLs with him on the experiment.What if he cheats?

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12946&d=1281757203


:eek:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi J_P.
Why to hide the metal detector???? He need it for pinpoint.
As we know metal detectors are good only for coins at beach and for pinpoint:lol:

Regards:)

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
Why to hide the metal detector???? He need it for pinpoint.
As we know metal detectors are good only for coins at beach and for pinpoint:lol:

Regards:)Hi Geo,
He says he don't need it for pinpoint. He says Mineoro users use metal detectors only for psychological backup because Mineoro can pinpoint.
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=115578#post115578

The reason why he should hide his metal detectors is because he says: "First point they are obsolete technology".
If people see he uses conventional metal detectors, then maybe they will think he cannot use Mineoro and ADE 651 locators to not find all the mines.
And for certain they will think he does not believe they are obsolete.

Best wishes,
J_P

[aroundyou]

And how do explain all that scientific arguments from ATSC LTD (http://www.atscltd.com) website?
There are some arguments that make you think. I don’t say this is working but in some way I think it can be done. Don't you think?
:shocked:

I don't know if this is possible, this is to generalized. If they were more specific for one material I think it could be done.