Action of the Earth in solenoids [Archive]

Esteban

03-18-2009, 04:27 PM

In a French book of Physics (translate to Spanish) by J. Langlebert, doctor in Medicine and professor of Nature Sciences and Physics, of 1911, you can found the action of the Earth in solenoids, page 394. This is, when you connect to the batteries a solenoid wich pivots in a receptacle with mercury (for to stablish well contact), the extremes "watch" one to North and other to South.

The pole wich "watch" to the North is called austral and the pole wich "watch" to the South is called boreal.

Ok, this acts as a compass.

Well, in the same way you can design a system wich can "watch" to desirable target... :razz:

I inform about this experiment to Alonso and he rapidly understand the theme. He design a LRL wich consist in a movable electrical pendulum with 5,000 ohms in coil and some other things inside. Once, was found a gold ring at 105 m distance and buried 50 cm depth, approximative. This is an example.

When you are near the target you put on a microvoltmeter based on the internal solenoid of the pendulum and you move the pendulum in the place. The exact point is confirmed when the pendulum move (with his coil, the sensor) a motor and the antenna...

The system also uses a 1,000 V, HV (inside pendulum).

So, is not impossible to build a "divining modern rod". :razz:

hung

03-19-2009, 05:51 PM

Esteban,

One important factor also is that the metal buried acts as a voltage stream concentrator.

We have surveys that show around 10-Â¹Â² volts at location, but when metal is buried, this rises up to 1000000000 volts.
All voltage streams are redirected to the metal.

PS. My friend is being sucessful in replicating your ferrite circuit we discussed. He enhanced it even more, by implementing a spectrometer software program to the detector linked to his laptop.

Qiaozhi

03-19-2009, 06:06 PM

We have surveys that show around 10-Â¹Â² volts at location, but when metal is buried, this rises up to 1000000000 volts.
All voltage streams are redirected to the metal.

You are a comedian. :razz:

Fred

03-19-2009, 08:47 PM

You are a comedian. :razz:

...in search for an audience.

Hung , i may be wrong of course, but i think there is just one zero too much.

Rudy

03-19-2009, 10:05 PM

......
We have surveys that show around 10-Â¹Â² volts at location, but when metal is buried, this rises up to 1000000000 volts.
All voltage streams are redirected to the metal.
........

From 1 picoVolt to 1 TeraVolt ??? Ha Ha Ha

Hung, you have blown whatever credibility you had left.

hung

03-20-2009, 12:14 AM

...in search for an audience.

Hung , i may be wrong of course, but i think there is just one zero too much.

Yes Fred. You are correct. I made a mistake. There's one zero too much.

Also it's not volts, it's mho/m! 100,000,000 mho/m. That's what we found.
Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha. I begin to appear like Ozzy with the paper bag in his head above.

In fact, I remember that I came to know once of a scientific study conducted about the dowsing subject where a map of electric condutivity of the region/area where the test was performed was measured. With no metal buried, it was an average of 10-Â³ mho/m. These values were not enough to make the rods move as there was no significant changes in the electric condutivity.
But when a conductive metal was buried, some large gradient of electric condutivity was estabilished. The current moved towards the mean of higher condutivity. So for a metal of say 1 000 000 mho/m this provided more than 1 billion mho/m of difference, being sufficient to generate a DOP which made the rods move, aligning with the surface as a short in the 'conection'.

Qiaozhi

03-20-2009, 01:07 AM

Yes Fred. You are correct. I made a mistake. There's one zero too much.

Also it's not volts, it's mho/m! 100,000,000 mho/m.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You need to be more careful when you cut and paste other people's words from the internet. :nono:
Perhaps your paper bag is blocking the view.

hung

03-20-2009, 01:25 AM

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You need to be more careful when you cut and paste other people's words from the internet. :nono:
Perhaps your paper bag is blocking the view.

There was no cut and paste from our above survey Ozzy, as this phenomenon is even known by Mineoro for a long time.

But you are right. I should be more careful not making dumb mistakes anymore otherwise my posts will be just like your PD schematics, full of errors.:help:
Thanks for pointing that up.

Fred

03-20-2009, 01:53 AM

Also it's not volts, it's mho/m! 100,000,000 mho/m. That's what we found.

What is mho/m ?
Do you mean Mohm/m ? (MΩ/m = 1.000.000.000 mΩ/m, i have found where all your zeros come from :lol: )
Was Kafka one of you parents?

hung

03-20-2009, 02:46 AM

What is mho/m ?
Do you mean Mohm/m ? (MΩ/m = 1.000.000.000 mΩ/m, i have found where all your zeros come from :lol: )
Was Kafka one of you parents?

No Fred, it's a conductivity unit.
I thought Siemens and wrote voltage. But mistaking conductivity for resistance... ouch.

hipopp

03-20-2009, 05:48 AM

Qiaozhi

03-20-2009, 11:37 AM

Hung, the sniping on this site re the LRL's is very entertaining. I was outside just before doing some gardening and I had a think about all this stuff about dowsing...are all the sceptics here admitting that dowsing is an accepted phenomena? Are thay saying that i can use my mindpower to twist a long aerial? This is unbelievable for a scientific forum!!! How many people on this site believe in this mind over matter???can we have some reponses please??
Dowsing is a "trick of the mind". People who believe in dowsing are being self-deluded, because the act of dowsing can be quite compelling.

I suggest that you look at this website to learn the ugly truth ->
http://sites.google.com/site/dowsingtruth/

Fred

03-20-2009, 01:40 PM

No Fred, it's a conductivity unit.
I thought Siemens and wrote voltage. But mistaking conductivity for resistance... ouch.
Hung,
Why are you using a conductivity unit (siemens) in air , wich is one of the best isolator, instead of resistivity ?
ThatÂ´s strange...i could not think of air as a conductor :shocked:

hung

03-20-2009, 05:20 PM

Dowsing is a "trick of the mind". People who believe in dowsing are being self-deluded, because the act of dowsing can be quite compelling.

See Hipopp? This is one example of the 'pearls' the 'I wannabe scientist' stunts fire once in a while about subjects they completely ignore.

Excuse the inconvenience.

hung

03-20-2009, 05:27 PM

Hung,
Why are you using a conductivity unit (siemens) in air , wich is one of the best isolator, instead of resistivity ?
ThatÂ´s strange...i could not think of air as a conductor :shocked:

The measurment was not done in air. It was done in the ground.
The vector current (I) was used as conductivity for electric field intensity. Affected also by tellurics, when a metal is buried, the streams run towards the metal, increasing the flow of electric current, hence the difference in value.
For a resistive object, it flows around it.

Qiaozhi

03-20-2009, 06:37 PM

The measurment was not done in air. It was done in the ground.
The vector current (I) was used as conductivity for electric field intensity. Affected also by tellurics, when a metal is buried, the streams run towards the metal, increasing the flow of electric current, hence the difference in value.
For a resistive object, it flows around it.
More gobbledygook by pseudo-scientist Hung. :frown:
Fantasy land physics combined with do-nothing electronics = wallet mining. :razz:

Fred

03-20-2009, 09:36 PM

More gobbledygook by pseudo-scientist Hung. :frown:
Fantasy land physics combined with do-nothing electronics = wallet mining. :razz:
Really those explanations donÂ´t make any sense :stars:

Qiaozhi

03-20-2009, 10:23 PM

Really those explanations donÂ´t make any sense :stars:
Exactly... ;)

Morgan

03-21-2009, 12:56 AM

Dowsing is a "trick of the mind". People who believe in dowsing are being self-deluded, because the act of dowsing can be quite compelling.

I suggest that you look at this website to learn the ugly truth ->
http://sites.google.com/site/dowsingtruth/
Search with Dowsing RodÂ´s can be deception or sometimes one treasure or valuable coins can be found with this instruments,its allways impossible to say if it works 100%. Anyway i found and saw other people finding many interesting coins&jewelry with RodÂ´s...
One normal Dowsing Rod follow your intuition and if correct can be your lucky day ;) I respect Dowsing,I understand why many people use Dowsing RodÂ´s in TH.

Fred

03-21-2009, 02:07 AM

Steve in MS

03-21-2009, 02:57 AM

That has to be a metaphysical side to dowsing and whether it works or not,
is not my concern. I simply don't believe in it and don't think I could get it to work for me.
There seems to be a definition problem with LRLs, that is the kind that has a mechanical part. The makers of them claim they are not dowsing rods while some skeptics believe all these devises are dowsing rods.
Here's where I have a problem with these mechanical types, if they don't have a power supply, what causes the movement?
Can these supposed movements be subjected to repeated tests with the same results?
All this about the human body being the power supply has its roots in dowsing, plain and simple, there is no way around it.
Now meta-physics and para-normal activity cannot be subjected to scientific testing since it is out of the boundaries of the physical universe.
Now are mechanical LRLs dowsers or not?
Lets take a poll:D:D:razz::razz::lol::lol:.

J_Player

03-21-2009, 06:32 AM

Here's where I have a problem with these mechanical types, if they don't have a power supply, what causes the movement?
Can these supposed movements be subjected to repeated tests with the same results?According to most skeptics, movement is caused by ideamotor response, ie: muscles cause the rod to move depending on an idea in the user's head which may be conscious or subconscious. But according to LRL proponents, some little-known principles of science cause the LRL to move.

Little-know principles of science that cause LRLs to point to treasure:
1. Carrier signal lines that are shot and returned to the LRL
2. Frequencies emanating from a calculator to match the subatomic resonance of metals
2. Frequencies emanating from a circuit to match the subatomic resonance of metals
3. Electricity in the ground
4. Capacitive properties of the user's biological cells
5. Precious metal ions in the ground and in the air near where treasure is
6. Magnetic-electric effects along a signal line
7. Radionics

Many combinations of these little-known principles of science will cause the LRL to move and point to the treasure according to some LRL proponents.
But an interesting question comes to mind: Why is it that the treasure direction is alligned with the axis of the telescoping antenna? Most devices that use telescoping antennas are omnidirectional, and get their best reception when the antenna is turned upward, not pointing in the direction of a transmitting tower. Could it be an advertising gimmck to help make a prospective buyer feel like he has a pistol in his hand that points the direction of the target like a Buck Rogers pistol? Or is the little-known science different than regular science which dictates setting the antenna vertical for correct polarization?

Well, putting aside that curious aspect of the antenna, how can we test to see if these LRLs are different than dowsing? It seems that if the movement is caused by the user's muscles (dowsing), then gravity plays a part in supplying the force to move the device. ie: If the user's hands cause the LRL to tilt so its axis is no longer vertical, then gravity will exert a force that causes the heavy end of the LRL to move to the low side of the axis. So, if we have an LRL that is claimed not to be dowsing, then it will move due to the above little-known proinciples of science, rather than the user's hand tilting the vertical axis of the swivel handle.

Now, this can be easily tested by two different methods:
1. Attach a counterweight on one side of the LRL to balance it, so it does not swivel when its axis is tilted.
2. Attach a circular level vial on the LRL to indicate when the LRL is perfectly level, thus indicating when the operator is holding it in a perfectly vertical axis.

Then test the LRL with a known target that gives a good signal to see if it responds when gravity is not permitted to allow the user's hand to cause it to swivel. While using these test methods, if the LRL stops working then it would seem it is a dowsing device. But if it continues to work even when gravity cannot cause it to swing any direction, then it must be working by a little-known principle of science.

Best wishes,
J_P

Steve in MS

03-21-2009, 07:26 AM

Ah, but J, remember inertia of movement and inertia of rest would come into play also while walking around with a mechanical LRL.
I understand you would like to conduct a test to eliminate gravity, balance and such but we can't even confirm a find with these LRLs:D:D:razz::razz::lol::lol:.
Conventional detectors can be proven to be effective with a simply test in the front yard, heck, just throw something out there and it will beep when the coil passes over it.
Even pinpointing with an LRL...I have read many times about the user having problems zeroing in on a signal, doesn't it stand to reason the signal will get stronger the nearer he approaches?......that doesn't make sense to me, is the target a mile in this direction or the other, since I can't pinpoint:D:D:razz::razz::lol::lol:?
Even the old forked stick dowsers use to find water, don't they point directly over the water hole:D:razz::lol:?
LRLs can't be subjected to any kind of reason or logic it seems.......
Hmmm, guess this makes me one of those skeptics....
Believe that they work against all logic or reason.......
Now that is a hard sell :D:D:razz::razz::lol::lol:.
What power do these LRLs have over their owners:D:D:razz::razz::lol::lol:?

Qiaozhi

03-21-2009, 10:47 AM

Actually this is interesting , dowsing rods could be a way for your mind to express itself, kind of a translator, so logical (real world) clues about a possible treasure location could be expressed.
That would also explain why one needs practice, the more you dig empty holes the more you learn where to dig to avoid digging empty holes :lol: .
And also explain a more than average rate of success on real terrain, but zero on planted targets, where such clues donÂ´t exist.

Lets get back to real (electronic) detectors :D
I think Fred has hit the nail on the head. :thumb:

A dowsing rod is simply the equivalent of an executive decision maker. When you're out with your trusty metal detector (you know, the one with some real electronics inside, and not the fantasy-land stuff) the problem is where to start searching. No problem, use an LRL or dowsing contraption to make the decision for you. Like the executive decision maker, it's only guesswork, but at least you've made a decision.

Of course, the dowsing / LRL contraption has one advantage over the executive decision maker, as the user's unconscious mind can "control" it via the ideomotor effect. So, in this way, clues in the landscape, hidden desires, etc., will influence the decision. In this way the result may be slightly better than guessing when used in the field, simply due human intervention. But it's still guessing.

Theseus

03-21-2009, 12:36 PM

According to most skeptics, movement is caused by ideamotor response, ie: muscles cause the rod to move depending on an idea in the user's head which may be conscious or subconscious. But according to LRL proponents, some little-known principles of science cause the LRL to move.

Little-know principles of science that cause LRLs to point to treasure:
1. Carrier signal lines that are shot and returned to the LRL
2. Frequencies emanating from a calculator to match the subatomic resonance of metals
2. Frequencies emanating from a circuit to match the subatomic resonance of metals
3. Electricity in the ground
4. Capacitive properties of the user's biological cells
5. Precious metal ions in the ground and in the air near where treasure is
6. Magnetic-electric effects along a signal line
7. Radionics

Many combinations of these little-known principles of science will cause the LRL to move and point to the treasure according to some LRL proponents.
But an interesting question comes to mind: Why is it that the treasure direction is alligned with the axis of the telescoping antenna? Most devices that use telescoping antennas are omnidirectional, and get their best reception when the antenna is turned upward, not pointing in the direction of a transmitting tower. Could it be an advertising gimmck to help make a prospective buyer feel like he has a pistol in his hand that points the direction of the target like a Buck Rogers pistol? Or is the little-known science different than regular science which dictates setting the antenna vertical for correct polarization?

Well, putting aside that curious aspect of the antenna, how can we test to see if these LRLs are different than dowsing? It seems that if the movement is caused by the user's muscles (dowsing), then gravity plays a part in supplying the force to move the device. ie: If the user's hands cause the LRL to tilt so its axis is no longer vertical, then gravity will exert a force that causes the heavy end of the LRL to move to the low side of the axis. So, if we have an LRL that is claimed not to be dowsing, then it will move due to the above little-known proinciples of science, rather than the user's hand tilting the vertical axis of the swivel handle.

Now, this can be easily tested by two different methods:
1. Attach a counterweight on one side of the LRL to balance it, so it does not swivel when its axis is tilted.
2. Attach a circular level vial on the LRL to indicate when the LRL is perfectly level, thus indicating when the operator is holding it in a perfectly vertical axis.

Then test the LRL with a known target that gives a good signal to see if it responds when gravity is not permitted to allow the user's hand to cause it to swivel. While using these test methods, if the LRL stops working then it would seem it is a dowsing device. But if it continues to work even when gravity cannot cause it to swing any direction, then it must be working by a little-known principle of science.

Best wishes,
J_P

Speaking of tests and testing commercial LRLs.... what's the latest progress, or news, of the RT Examiner test that you are supposed to be a witness to? Anything going on towards bringing that little episode to fruition?

Mike(Mont)

03-21-2009, 01:52 PM

Your posts show your ignorance. You do not even understand what a dowsing rod is used for. When you sweep the rod past a target, the rod will act as if it hits a wall. This is the edge of the target's field. So the rod is used to sense the target field's "pressure". Of course something has to elevate this pressure and that could be a frequency transmitter, or the "eyebeam" of the dowser. Yes, some people might be able to sense this with a crowbar (what I call a 'thug" rod) but the finer the rod the more information the dowser can receive. It's sort of like the tin cans and string telephones.

J_Player

03-21-2009, 02:39 PM

Speaking of tests and testing commercial LRLs.... what's the latest progress, or news, of the RT Examiner test that you are supposed to be a witness to? Anything going on towards bringing that little episode to fruition?Rangertell is working to find an alternate demonstrator, as his first choice of demonstrators did not respond to his request.

Best wishes,
J_P

J_Player

03-21-2009, 02:45 PM

A dowsing rod is simply the equivalent of an executive decision maker. When you're out with your trusty metal detector (you know, the one with some real electronics inside, and not the fantasy-land stuff) the problem is where to start searching. No problem, use an LRL or dowsing contraption to make the decision for you. Like the executive decision maker, it's only guesswork, but at least you've made a decision.This is brilliant!
Of course.... I would never have thought of it!

When I go coin shooting, as soon as I park the car, the first thing I will do is take out the trusty LRL and see which direction it beeps. Then I will walk that direction with my metal detector and see what I find. If I find a coin a mile away, this indicates the LRL detected the coin from a mile range. Now I can join the LRL proponents and honestly say my LRL works.

Finally, someone gave precise instructions for how to make these LRLs work!

Best wishes,
J_P

Theseus

03-21-2009, 04:35 PM

Your posts show your ignorance. You do not even understand what a dowsing rod is used for.

... show your Ignorance? I guess you'd be the resident expert in that area.

A dowsing rod is used when the operator wants to guess about the location of various lost or hidden objects --and doesn't want to just look in the supposed direction, so would rather follow the direction of a dowsing wand, which operates in response to their own ideomotor response.

Does that help you any, Mike? :razz: :razz: :razz: :lol: :lol:

Theseus

03-21-2009, 04:38 PM

Rangertell is working to find an alternate demonstrator, as his first choice of demonstrators did not respond to his request.

Best wishes,
J_P

Good. Thanks for the update. I hope this doesn't fall into a crack; or a
c
a
v
e
r
n........

Steve in MS

03-21-2009, 04:44 PM

Qiaozhi

03-21-2009, 04:55 PM

Mike, show us some pics of your finds with your LRLs.
"I am going outside and might be some time." - Mike Mont (or was that Captain Lawrence Oates?). :rolleyes:

Mike(Mont)

03-22-2009, 03:44 PM

hung

03-22-2009, 06:00 PM

Dowsing is a "trick of the mind". People who believe in dowsing are being self-deluded, because the act of dowsing can be quite compelling.

Ozzy, You are the comedian .

A 'trick of the mind' made great dowser Jon 'teleprospector' find this treasure with a simple set of dowsing rods.

The day this forum 'grows up' and the kids who inhabit here at present become at least teens, then Mike, Dell, Sweatofglory, myself and a few others might consider finally feeling like discussing and sharing the aspects of dowsing.

hung

03-22-2009, 06:02 PM

And when the paper is unwrapped...
Silver liberty pennies. ;)

Qiaozhi

03-22-2009, 07:23 PM

Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut. :p

Fred

03-22-2009, 08:39 PM

...In this case I wanted to dispel the misinformation that an L-rod is a gravity detector. I think some people here have a learning disability-
A L-rod IS a gravity detector- you canÂ´t deny this can you ?

A 'trick of the mind' made great dowser Jon 'teleprospector' find this treasure with a simple set of dowsing rods.

Nothing special with this if, like i suggested before, the downsing rods helped his mind to classify otherwise hidden clues.
Just like when you can find more easily a needle on the ground a night with a flashlight than during daytime , because you attention is better focused.

Theseus

03-22-2009, 08:57 PM

Ozzy, You are the comedian .

A 'trick of the mind' made great dowser Jon 'teleprospector' find this treasure with a simple set of dowsing rods.

I hope you don't expect us to believe that story, just on the pictures you've posted.

Steve in MS

03-23-2009, 06:53 AM

My post above was supposed to be posted on the Ramka by Morgan thread. I was addressing the executive decision maker comment and the one by Morgan that the cheapest L-rod is the best.

I offer my knowledge for free to those who want to learn. In this case I wanted to dispel the misinformation that an L-rod is a gravity detector. I think some people here have a learning disability--a mental block fueled by prejudice and all sorts of negativity. Just like an alcoholic, they can't be helped until they admit they have a problem, until they see the light. Most never do. In the 1960's there was psychedelics and today there is Breathwork Techniques. Many people make an instant conversion.

Of course the easiest cop-out is to blame someone or something else for our own problems.

No need to get overly defensive Mike, our learning disability amounts to looking for evidence that mechanical LRLs work and if they do under one conditions.
Our "problem" is there is no data or serious study if mechanical LRLs do what is claimed. I guess to be enlightened, we would all just go out and buy one without any idea of a success rate.
Doesn't that sound like a bad idea to you? If you shop for a car and ask the seller, does this car work and he says yeah but it may not work for you, or it only runs on Tuesdays and Thursdays, what would you think?
Does it work is the first question, what is the success rate and then what would follow is an investigation into how it works.
Prejudice and negativity has nothing to do with it, until someone can actually set-up some tests, there will always be a question about usefulness of LRLs since the early days all kind of wild claims have been made.
You see the product is what is being questioned here and if users of LRLs are following any kind of guidelines to ensure that these products are indeed useful.
All the jargon of terms associated with the LRLs use is not much good if the practicality of such a device is not first established.
Would you be willing to be involved in serious tests that will prove or disprove LRLs effectiveness?

Theseus

03-23-2009, 01:41 PM

No need to get overly defensive Mike, our learning disability amounts to looking for evidence that mechanical LRLs work and if they do under one conditions.
Our "problem" is there is no data or serious study if mechanical LRLs do what is claimed. I guess to be enlightened, we would all just go out and buy one without any idea of a success rate.
Doesn't that sound like a bad idea to you? If you shop for a car and ask the seller, does this car work and he says yeah but it may not work for you, or it only runs on Tuesdays and Thursdays, what would you think?
Does it work is the first question, what is the success rate and then what would follow is an investigation into how it works.
Prejudice and negativity has nothing to do with it, until someone can actually set-up some tests, there will always be a question about usefulness of LRLs since the early days all kind of wild claims have been made.
You see the product is what is being questioned here and if users of LRLs are following any kind of guidelines to ensure that these products are indeed useful.
All the jargon of terms associated with the LRLs use is not much good if the practicality of such a device is not first established.
Would you be willing to be involved in serious tests that will prove or disprove LRLs effectiveness?

Not sure if you know or not, but Mike is himself a "seller" of yet another dowsing wand. Since the price of his device is greater than 50 cents, this puts him in the category of an up and coming wallet-miner.

As such, I doubt very much Mike would be interested in becoming involved with a test that "might" disprove the effectiveness of his or any other LRL.

:D

Steve in MS

03-23-2009, 05:09 PM

Not sure if you know or not, but Mike is himself a "seller" of yet another dowsing wand. Since the price of his device is greater than 50 cents, this puts him in the category of an up and coming wallet-miner.

As such, I doubt very much Mike would be interested in becoming involved with a test that "might" disprove the effectiveness of his or any other LRL.

:D

Hmmm, no I didn't know Mike is a seller.
Except for Hung, I don't see users that aren't selling them.
It seems to me if these contraptions really worked, there would be plenty of users showing pictures and showing how these units work....
Where there is smoke, there is fire, the only smoke here is what the LRL proponents are inhaling :D:D:razz::razz::lol::lol:.

Theseus

03-23-2009, 07:15 PM

Hmmm, no I didn't know Mike is a seller.
Except for Hung, I don't see users that aren't selling them.
It seems to me if these contraptions really worked, there would be plenty of users showing pictures and showing how these units work....
Where there is smoke, there is fire, the only smoke here is what the LRL proponents are inhaling :D:D:razz::razz::lol::lol:.

Or the smoke that goes along with the mirrors to make LRLs appear to work better than just guessing.

Can you spell S-N-A-K-E O-I-L ?

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Sean_Goddard

03-24-2009, 02:12 PM

[quote=Esteban;87023]In a French book of Physics (translate to Spanish) by J. Langlebert, doctor in Medicine and professor of Nature Sciences and Physics, of 1911, you can found the action of the Earth in solenoids, page 394. This is, when you connect to the batteries a solenoid wich pivots in a receptacle with mercury (for to stablish well contact), the extremes "watch" one to North and other to South.

The pole wich "watch" to the North is called austral and the pole wich "watch" to the South is called boreal.

Ok, this acts as a compass.

Well, in the same way you can design a system wich can "watch" to desirable target... :razz:

WHAT BULLS**T!!

Dude, the earth is quite a bit larger then any target you might find, and it may come as ashock to you but it has a thing called a M A G N T I C F I E L D this is due to the fact that it's core is a huge lump of molten IRON.:oh::oh:

Now IF you built the machine you are proposing, then consider that the magnetic field of the target you are after, and YES a gold object WILL distort the magnetic field of the earth in it's immediate vacinity, but NOT in any amount that could possible be measured from 105 metres away, in fact, you are NOW into the realms of conventional metal detectors (something WE know a LOT about) and you, not so much so obviously. So your (again made up speudo explanation) about voltage concentration, whatever that is, is more manure than I've seen in a long time.

SPEAK FACTS, not this continous stream of childish drivel we all see.

I challenge YOU and all other LRL'ers MAKE something that works, then post the designs on here so we can ALL make one and agree (or otherwise) with you, but all I see so far in response to my last request for hard scietific theory are the sort of rambling I would expect from a four year old with a VERY active imagination. I might suggest you go back to school where thay can teach you a few REAL facts about physics and electromagnetism.

FACTS, FACT, DESIGNS and PROOF. You have non of ANY of these that I have seen so far. Sorry, but SHOW ME THE MONEY then we'll take you seriously, but FFS STOP with the fake science!! :nono::nono:

Theseus

03-24-2009, 03:22 PM

Oh, and just as an aside; When does the debunkering begin?

Esteban

03-24-2009, 03:30 PM

Sean_Goddard

03-24-2009, 04:13 PM

Estaban, I have a LOT more scientific and electronics engineering experience than you might think, but I am NOT here to criticise your claims.

GIVE US schematics that WE can MAKE ourselves, I for one REALLY want to try an LRL and see if you are right, but every time I ask for such drawings, NOTHING comes back, only more made up science and bulls**t.

I am not stupid or hullible enough to go buy a RangerTell or the like, but I would happily build something YOU posted, and will repond with an unbiased and honest report of my findings. If your unit works, then I will say so, if not then I will say that.

You are being defensive for all the wrong reasons. PROVE what you have works and I will support your theories, but until then, these made up terms and theories you, and others, keep spouting give the rest of us VERY sound reasons to doubt your credibility and indeed that your education extends beyond only the most basic levels (sorry, but that's how it appears).

Example:

"I am the richest man on earth"! You ONLY have my word for that, but if I prove it to you by turning up outside your house with my 100 custom designed private helicopter fleet and take you to my privately owned full size replica of the battleship Bismarck with 2500 crew on board, then we go to my private island in the Bahamas (the one I bought from Fidel) then I have PROVED to you I am rich.

Do you understand WHAT "we" are asking of you LRL guys or shall I make it even MORE simple?

Esteban

03-24-2009, 04:25 PM

If all I post is product of VERY active imagination, then the scriptwriters of Hollywood have not imagination.

Sean_Goddard

03-24-2009, 04:36 PM

Indeed they do, but where are these schematics please?

Esteban

03-24-2009, 04:58 PM

Indeed they do, but where are these schematics please?

Do you believe I will post these complete schematics here? They exists.

This is an oscillator I use for gold detection... with other arrangements.

hung

03-24-2009, 05:02 PM

Sean the words in your posts clearly show your complete ignorance on the phenomena about long time buried metals we have been talking here for years.
If you have been following the hundreds of threads in almost 5 years in this forum regarding this and still don't comprehend it, then not even 50 more years will serve you this purpose.
If you ignore the existence of this posts, I suggest taking 1 or 2 months to read them since about 2005 and try to learn about it.

The powerful fields existing around long time buried gold for instance are notorious. There's a site I researched where a big treasure lies buried for more than 200 years. It produces a so huge eletromagnetic field that caused the burning of the oscilator transistors of 2 PIs taken to the site. Also all compasses in this area are completely useless. In fact a lot of shipwrecks are present due to compass malfunction.

In US, the same happens in the region where several tons of silver from pirate Francis Drake is hidden. Ships even avoid passing close to the region where the same anomaly manifest.

So, before you state nonsenses in your posts that I hope are originated from your complete ignorance about the phenomena, try to study it a little, ok?

As your avatar shows the Eldridge, the ship used in the Philladelphia Experiment, I presume you have an open mind and is not as sick as some skeptics here.
I do hope I do not regret about you.

Regards.

Esteban

03-24-2009, 05:07 PM

Hung

Yes, the field around these good conductive metal buried for long time exists and you can probe with a simple needle microammeter... with some simple electrodes based on science...

Esteban

03-24-2009, 05:09 PM

Schematic based on HV, 5,000 volts.

Sorry the small picture...

Esteban

03-24-2009, 05:29 PM

HV coil for pistol type Tesla

Sean_Goddard

03-24-2009, 06:01 PM

My Avatar is in fact the KMS Bismarck firing the fatal salvo against HMS Hood in thew battle of the Denmark Straits. I know, I've met ALL three of the Hoods survivors!

Esteban, FANTASTIC, NOW I will make this and see what happens. Can you give me some pointers on how to use it please? I am NOT going to pooh, pooh your schematics or ideas unti lI have proved to myself.

I REALLY want to try this stuff for myself!!

Hung if you'd actually READ my posts, I said I DO NOT dispute that LRL's may work, what I dispute is the silly and made up science used to explain things which cannot be explained. Gold ions and the like. GOLD DOES NOT CORRODE therefore cannot give of any such ions, THAT is why it is found in it's natural state as GOLD and iron is found as FERROUS OXIDE and Alimunium is found as BAUXITE (Aluminium Oxide) and Lead is found as Lead Oxide. With these metals you might have a chance to smell them, best to smell the coffee though :lol:.

Now as with any large mass the gravitational field in the vacinity will be very slightly distorted and as a consequence moneral depostits may be further attracted to the target. In ALL cases this will happen, but due to the many targets, each with it's own distortion, many will cancel out. The target would have ot be quite large to have any measurable effect. THIS kind of explanation could be believed. I could quote you on how "voltage concentration" might work, but I guess there is some existing answer used by LRLers.

What I am aiming for is EXPLANTIONS in quantifiable terms, not just grabbing at half understood straws. It's not the theories presented, but the way in which they are explained, in the main it shows a very limited understanding of simple physics. When we all talk the same (real science) language, or even the purest language of all, MATHEMATICS, then we can all relate and start making true progress as to just HOW these devices you are building REALLY work, and I'm sure we would ALL benefit from that.

YES I am ignorant of the practices involved in LRL sensing, but I am NOT ignorant in physics theory and it's application to the field (pun intended) of electronics. I could leave your head spinning if I started quoting quantum theory at you, but I am openminded as you suggest and I want to learn more.

I will go back and read these posts as you ask, and will join in more as I learn about the subject.

Esteban

03-24-2009, 06:19 PM

The direction system of the Bismarck was inmovilized by torpedo launching by Swordfish biplanes. So, Bismarck lose direction and girates and girates... At first sight this is an inconsequence... These old planes was used with the purpose for not to be reached by rapid sequence of the Bismarck's shots... so was used slow planes.

The sunken of Bismarck was a brutal persecution by British navy, a kind of revenge. The Prince of Wales had a effective electronic shooting system, if I remember well... I saw it in documental film.

Sean_Goddard

03-24-2009, 06:24 PM

Schematic based on HV, 5,000 volts.

Sorry the small picture...

So you are saying I could use this to "amplify" the voltage from a target object into one sufficient to measure on a Digital Voltage Meter? I think that is what you mean, yes? That would make sense.

But wouldn't that signal have to be AC in nature for the transformer to work? How does this signal get to be AC and what frequency might it be at please? Unless you yourself "chop" the incoming signal using a signal generator of some sort. Am I getting warm because I can see that there is some practical theory in this approach? If this is the case, then Hung, you are right, I should read more on the subject (No I am not a convert yet) :lol::lol:

I know Earth resonance is around 20Hz (Tesla proved that a long time ago).

I'm not probing you to see if you know, I just want an explanation I can understand, Thanks.

You are correct in your history of the Bismarck hunt. 75 ships of the Royal Navy hunted him down with orders to exact revenge for the sinking of the Hood. Truth is, if the Officer in charge of Bismarck had been any good, he would have pursued and sunk the Prince of Wales also. It would have been easy since the Bismarck had already knocked out all the POW's senior officers with a shell which hit the binacle, shrapnel from which killed all but one man on the bridge. Furthermore, the rear turret of POW was jammed and as she was running way making smoke and on fire, the Bismarck and Prinz Eugen would have been in the clear with no return fire. Adm. Gunther Lutjens was scared of two British heavy cruisers and their torpedoes, and as the German radar (SeeTakt) was not working properly that day (the vibrations from the main guns broke it) he was unsure of how far away the British support ships were and didn't want to risk any further damage to Bismark.

Esteban

03-24-2009, 06:30 PM

Do you believe I will post these complete schematics here? They exists.

This is an oscillator I use for gold detection... with other arrangements.

Once was found a corroded fluorescent ballast with the copper wire exposed... green. Seems this ballast burns because most part of the wire lose the barnish and is green by oxidation.

J_Player

03-25-2009, 03:17 AM

GOLD DOES NOT CORRODE therefore cannot give of any such ionsHi Sean,
Your statement is not entirely true. Gold that has been buried for a long time does corrode in small amounts. There are microorganisms which secrete chemicals such as cyanide, and are able to produce sulfur complexes which dissolve gold from the surface of the metal in small amounts. These dissolved gold ions very slowly migrate to the surface of the earth in a column due to capillary action of the rain cycles. After reaching within 10 cm of the surface of the earth, the ions become bound with other chemiical elements, and are moved laterally, mostly from erosion mechanisms.

The MMI corporation has been doing soil analysis surveys at gold mines and other metal ore mines to pinpoint where the main ore bodies are located up to 5000 feet deep. This has been a highly successful business for the past 16 years, resulting in the recovery of many tons of gold, copper, and other industrial metals.

There are also microorganisms which precipitate gold from the dissolved ion state to solid gold particles. In Australia, miners have found exceptionally pure gold nuggets which were percipitated in this same manner. Thus, enough gold ions were dissolved to become re-precipitated as commercially viable nuggets in another location quite some distance from the original location of the gold deposit. ie: gold moved through the ground by dissolving, and then re-precipitating somewhere else, with the help of a collection of microorganisms that live in generally uninhabitable environments.

See these links where I detailed the mechanisms of naturally transporting gold ions:http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13276
Take note of my posts here:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=10 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=55850&postcount=10)
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=33 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=56059&postcount=33)
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=41 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=56124&postcount=41)
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=57 (http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=56384&postcount=57)

Item 2. Voltages in the ground:

The voltages in the ground that Esteban talks about are probably a result of telluric currents. These are naturally occurring currents that are driven by the electric exchanges which occur in the outer ionosphere. Through the mechanism of lightning storms and slow leakage of current through the atmosphere, there are electrical charges that accumulate, and need to move as the earth spins. The telluric currents will vary in their measured voltage and direction over a distance of ground due to variations in the composition of the soil. And buried metals, as well as ionized metals under the ground will distort the voltage and path that the current moves. These telluric currents were once used to power the early telegraphs in the USA. They would drive copper rods in the ground at different locations where they would find a voltage difference, then use this voltage to power the telegraphs. But later, the telegraph companies switched to battery and generated power because it was more reliable than the fluctuating telluric currents.

Item 3. Yes, you are correct. We cannot know if these LRLs are actually detecting these anomalies or if they are working on some other principle, or if they don't even work, unless we first perform some real tests.

For example, I can take any LRL and point it all directions until I see which way it points out the treasure. Then I start swinging my VLF metal detector off in that direction until I find something. If I don't find anything until I reach 5 miles, then I suppose the LRL detected the target from 5 miles distance. Of course, if I am an LRL proponent, I will be bragging about my LRL that detected a target at 5 miles range all through the forums. But do you really believe this is a good test method?

It appears that all the people who claim they have a good working LRL refuse to show a complete schematic that can be built. Why is this? Are they waiting to get rich on their patents?

Ooops, what patents?
Ignoring the un-patentable designs that were taken from other designers, and cannot be patented, can you think of any reason why nobody who has a working LRL will post a schematic for a simple LRL that finds stuff like aluminum at 10 feet distance?

A simple LRL that only finds aluminum will not start a rush of Chinese manufacturers mass producing the LRL. But is will serve as a good tool to test to see if it is detecting currents in the ground, or ions or some other geo-signal from the buried target.

Best wishes,
J_P

Steve in MS

03-25-2009, 03:58 AM

Sean, I hope you get to make Esteban's device.
I think since these are true electronic devices, they have a chance to work.
As far as these other mechanical LRLs, it would take some "special abilities" to get them to ever work:D.
Hung, somebody's got to keep you honest, that is the reason skeptics are here, to try to keep some of your wild imaginations in check:D:razz::lol:.
Seems like you don't need your LRLs at the shipwreak, a simple compass would be sufficient because of its erratic readings:D:razz::lol:, maybe that is one time the compass wasn't right, while your LRLs are always wrong
:D:D:razz::razz::lol::lol:.

Sean_Goddard

03-25-2009, 11:17 AM

And THAT is the whole problem.......What????

Esteban, if you don't post complete schematics how can I build an LRL for myself? I said I wanted to prove whether I ret results. I know I appear a sceptic in other posts, but I have been reading about these things and I, along wit hmany others here, wish to know more yet you won't tell us or give us the tools to learn.

It's no trade secret I guess, unless there is something to hide. I gave you a possible explanation of the Tesla Probe and now you hit reverse gear and run away? Dude I was TELLING you how in REAL terms this thing may actually WORK!! Did you see it as some attack on your pseudo scientific explanation as that was NOT the way I intended it.

Looking at the probe I'm thinking of a way to detect anomalies in the surrounding voltage field of possible targets. If you chop the input to the primary at say 59KHz (I think you said that was a Gold frequency) then have a narrow band filter on the secondary, you could monitor the AVERAGE field and look for slight changes. This may work as a detection method, but it is NOT psuedo science, this is hard physical. An Electronics Engineer would be able ot make such a device in a few hours.

J_Player, of course you are right, Gold does corrode in fact I have found a 500 year old Gold ring and it was almost black. I suppose the alloy making it less that 24ct. may have also contributed, but as I stand corrected by you although I agree, it is a VERY small amount and it takes a VERY long time.

OMG I'd completely forgotten about Telluric currents!! One further thought, with all the RF and LF signals pumped out by te human race these days, might they not also cause some interaction with a "desired" target? See the Compass Depth Enhancer. Also I have found that searching with a conventional metal detector in a field that has an active electric fence around it, I get a LOT more depth (and ear bashing), but the depth is a DEFINATE 1.5 to 2X normal. I wonder if;

1) The targets are being "precharged" in some way.

2) The ground is "ringing" and thus so are the targets.

Ideas anyone? LRLers included :lol:.

hung

03-25-2009, 11:43 AM

Esteban, if you don't post complete schematics how can I build an LRL for myself? I said I wanted to prove whether I ret results. I know I appear a sceptic in other posts, but I have been reading about these things and I, along wit hmany others here, wish to know more yet you won't tell us or give us the tools to learn.

If you are a 'real' electronics engineer with some serious research attitude, then Esteban's hints are more than enough for you to start your own thing. In fact I should prevent Esteban of quiting posting even half schematics as there are the risks involved as we have already discussed.

If you happen to fully understand the phenomena one day, then with just a FET , a LED a couple of minor things and some wires you build up a working LRL.

Esteban knows how to protect his own research and he knows as you should, there's no 'lunch for free'.:nono:

Sean_Goddard

03-25-2009, 12:44 PM

Risks, would that be that they could be analysed? That was not my intention, to ridicule. Why all this defensiveness all of a sudden when a valid request is being made for help. I am most concerned there is something to hide, yet if these devices truly work, why would you do that?

You give sceptics cause to believe that your motives are more than a desire for your "competitors" not to see your designs, but I worry that there is more going on here than that, and that does not look good.

At every turn I see evasion and for someone who is openminded to the possibilities or LRL's (after doing more research) I find little cooperation here.

I will build my idea and then I will design an LRL based on REAL hard fact truth electronics. When it works, and it WILL, I will come here and show you pictures of my treasures, but I will not tell you how I made it or how it works.

See, I can be that way too. I have not asked for anything special, but I will not give it either even though I may have it to give. I too can deal in falsehood but I prefer not to. If I create a design that works, I will happily give it to those who have helped me in the past, but not those who don't :|. The ball is in YOUR court.

Esteban

03-25-2009, 02:51 PM

2) The ground is "ringing" and thus so are the targets.

I found than when a truck (diesel engine) vibrates the soil in zone with "false terain" the target is best detectable. Expect this movement produces another secondary phenomenon.

Fred

03-25-2009, 03:52 PM

Looking at the probe I'm thinking of a way to detect anomalies in the surrounding voltage field of possible targets. If you chop the input to the primary at say 59KHz (I think you said that was a Gold frequency) then have a narrow band filter on the secondary, you could monitor the AVERAGE field and look for slight changes.

The more serious schematics i have seen before all rely on this principle.
The problem with averaging a signal and staynig always at the edge of triggering is that you end with a random beeping that your mind can associate to targets....

OMG I'd completely forgotten about Telluric currents!! One further thought, with all the RF and LF signals pumped out by te human race these days, might they not also cause some interaction with a "desired" target? See the Compass Depth Enhancer. Also I have found that searching with a conventional metal detector in a field that has an active electric fence around it, I get a LOT more depth (and ear bashing), but the depth is a DEFINATE 1.5 to 2X normal. I wonder if;
1) The targets are being "precharged" in some way.
2) The ground is "ringing" and thus so are the targets.

I think the signals to be detected are variable (AC),so they must come from external source.
You electric fence observation is very interesting and should be better documented,to avoid "mind effects" and for example to see how long after turning up the fence and after turning it off the effect remains.

If you are a 'real' electronics engineer with some serious research attitude, then Esteban's hints are more than enough for you to start your own thing. In fact I should prevent Esteban of quiting posting even half schematics as there are the risks involved as we have already discussed.
-If it is so simple why not to post it anyway ?
-Why Esteban must obey you so quickly ? Are you is boss or superior to him ?

Esteban

03-25-2009, 04:17 PM

Ooops, what patents?
Ignoring the un-patentable designs that were taken from other designers, and cannot be patented, can you think of any reason why nobody who has a working LRL will post a schematic for a simple LRL that finds stuff like aluminum at 10 feet distance?

A simple LRL that only finds aluminum will not start a rush of Chinese manufacturers mass producing the LRL. But is will serve as a good tool to test to see if it is detecting currents in the ground, or ions or some other geo-signal from the buried target.

Best wishes,
J_P

I found a site with many aluminium cans (at first moment I think that are aluminium cans and unbury one as a sample). So, I surrounding the area from all positions and don't was detected this aluminium cans. Previously at 5 meters of this "cemetery" of aluminium cans (aluminium cans are not corroded. OK? Maybe corroded is other case...) I detect a site and found a bronze coin and Nintendo token (is correct here token?) one on other one. Don't know wich alloys is this token, but the both was detectable exceptionally very well at 3 meters and continue over the targets. Also don't know if the mix of this 2 kind of metals produces a "variant case" as Volta battery because a 1797 or 1798 Spanish silver coin don't was detectable very well. The conjunction of this both metal was better detectable. Any theory?

PS: I found many detectors in old magazine maybe never was patented but some years later other persons appears as the "inventors", one of such devices called impulse detector wich works as pulse induction...
To patent any invention is expensive...

Qiaozhi

03-25-2009, 06:19 PM

In fact I should prevent Esteban of quiting posting even half schematics as there are the risks involved as we have already discussed.

Why Esteban must obey you so quickly ? Are you is boss or superior to him ?

:lol: :lol: :lol: That's funny!

I was just going to ask the same question. :razz:

Esteban

03-25-2009, 10:49 PM

Morgan

03-26-2009, 12:00 AM

First time I use 300 Khz with other coil, no tune capacitor used here, but frequency was 300 Khz. At this frequency I found cigarette paper and other junk. But at 59.5 Khz don't occurs this, and can't asure that this is the gold frequency, but at this frequency other "bad" metals are rejected. Maybe because at 300 Khz more great variation of frequency is noticeable, but at 59.5 Khz the variation is low at presence of these "bad" metals, so detection doesn't occurs.
Hello Esteban

its possible adapt to Pistoldetectors some variable knob to change for diferent frequencies ???,i mean something who change the freq. from ferrite.

Steve in MS

03-26-2009, 05:51 AM

If you are a 'real' electronics engineer with some serious research attitude, then Esteban's hints are more than enough for you to start your own thing. In fact I should prevent Esteban of quiting posting even half schematics as there are the risks involved as we have already discussed.

If you happen to fully understand the phenomena one day, then with just a FET , a LED a couple of minor things and some wires you build up a working LRL.

Esteban knows how to protect his own research and he knows as you should, there's no 'lunch for free'.:nono:

And this proves a point, homemade LRLs are better than the name brands for sale :D:lol::razz:, which shouldn't be too hard to do:D:razz::lol:.
Hung even mentioned he doesn't use the Ranger anymore because he made his own.
Now the whole future of LRLs are in the hands of homemade builders that won't divulge :D:D:razz::razz::lol::lol:.
Ok, I can see not giving away all your work for nothing, make your LRLs, put the electronics in dark epoxy and sell some :D:razz::lol:.

Theseus

03-26-2009, 12:43 PM

And this proves a point, homemade LRLs are better than the name brands for sale :D:lol::razz:, which shouldn't be too hard to do:D:razz::lol:.
Hung even mentioned he doesn't use the Ranger anymore because he made his own.
Now the whole future of LRLs are in the hands of homemade builders that won't divulge :D:D:razz::razz::lol::lol:.
Ok, I can see not giving away all your work for nothing, make your LRLs, put the electronics in dark epoxy and sell some :D:razz::lol:.

Not to worry, Steve. If there was anything at all to the technology(?), and it actually worked, it wouldn't just be known in remote corners of this world by one or two that post on this forum. Neither would it have to be hidden in black epoxy. I like all your "laughing faces", because it shows that you think the same way I do. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :D:D:D:D:D

Esteban

03-26-2009, 05:23 PM

Not to worry, Steve. If there was anything at all to the technology(?), and it actually worked, it wouldn't just be known in remote corners of this world by one or two that post on this forum. Neither would it have to be hidden in black epoxy. I like all your "laughing faces", because it shows that you think the same way I do. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :D:D:D:D:D

Yes... Sometimes in the remote corners of this world you can found some things... explorers know this since remote times and maybe remote sensing (in this case based on electronics) can be one... :cool:

Esteban

03-26-2009, 05:34 PM

You can start with the magnetic field detector by Andy Flind published on Everyday... magazine. No transformer is used here, of course.

Here the Andy's project inside my fiberglass pistol.

Morgan

03-31-2009, 01:12 AM

You can start with the magnetic field detector by Andy Flind published on Everyday... magazine. No transformer is used here, of course.

Here the Andy's project inside my fiberglass pistol.
I will try to find this schematic in internet.
Thanks for this information.

Sean_Goddard

03-31-2009, 10:36 AM

SWEET. Andy the Genius strikes again!

Andy was a very good friend of mine and as you know, sadly passed away a few years back :cry:.

It's good to see his genius still producing the goods :):)

Esteban

03-31-2009, 02:33 PM

SWEET. Andy the Genius strikes again!

Andy was a very good friend of mine and as you know, sadly passed away a few years back :cry:.

It's good to see his genius still producing the goods :):)

Yes, Andy was a great man...

Morgan, you can't found in internet, this was published on Everday with Practical Electronics magazine in the 80s.

Is very simple: you connect the loop-core system I post here instead the transformer in the Andy's schematic. The output you connect to the comparator/timer/tone generator I post here. You put a potentiometer instead the audio preset in Andy's schematic as sensibility control. The bargraph preset you adjust when first led of. Better if this circut is in metalic case, loop must be outside.

For rights of the publishers, I can't post the Andy's schematic.

Esteban

03-31-2009, 02:39 PM

If you use spiral is more sensitive, but strong telluric currents can be detected with it.

Here an handmade spiral finish recently. Hardzarous to winding. Winding and paste, winding and paste...

Esteban

03-31-2009, 03:08 PM

With round loop.

Morgan

03-31-2009, 11:28 PM

If you use spiral is more sensitive, but strong telluric currents can be detected with it.

Here an handmade spiral finish recently. Hardzarous to winding. Winding and paste, winding and paste...
This kind of spiral coils are very easy for winding Esteban,if you use special and easy tecnique,just start the spiral coil between two wood circles with the desired wire expessor(can control this with screw in the midle),and when finish winding take out the circle from the top,put glue on wire turns ,et voyla ;)

Esteban

04-01-2009, 02:32 AM

This kind of spiral coils are very easy for winding Esteban,if you use special and easy tecnique,just start the spiral coil between two wood circles with the desired wire expessor(can control this with screw in the midle),and when finish winding take out the circle from the top,put glue on wire turns ,et voyla ;)

Maybe... maybe

Geo

05-29-2009, 07:38 AM

With round loop.

Hi Esteban.
Some questions :):)
1.At this magnetic field detector is it practical to reconect the reading leds and to work only with the speaker????
2. Do you think that it is a good choise (if i construct it) to find a big treasure??? or it is better the passive receiver
3. At who distance (max) it can (if it can) locate a big treasure of gold (50x50x50 cm )??

Regards:)

Esteban

05-29-2009, 05:01 PM

Hi Esteban.
Some questions :):)
1.At this magnetic field detector is it practical to reconect the reading leds and to work only with the speaker????
2. Do you think that it is a good choise (if i construct it) to find a big treasure??? or it is better the passive receiver
3. At who distance (max) it can (if it can) locate a big treasure of gold (50x50x50 cm )??

Regards:)

Hi Geo

1. In general, the first led is on (adjusted with the 10 K preset). But I think is better one external pot. for to leave on this led. The other potentiometer is for to manage the audio. This last is your sensibility control. You don't use here piezo sounder. Instead it you use a beeps generator for to catch the small variations.

2. Is only receiver. Is very good for treasures, don't fail is treasure is 30 meters of the loop. The 150 silver knives, spoons, etc., posted on another thread (but show only 3 of these â€“I'm waiting the photo of treasure taken in cellular phoneâ€“) was found with it!

3. Respond on point 2.

In general, tends to be most sensitive for silver.

Regards

Esteban

Esteban

05-29-2009, 05:23 PM

You can see here toroidal coils I use on it. I saved from old PCBs, first these!

Esteban

05-29-2009, 05:26 PM

When battery of this circuit is low, led and audio come crazy, so this "natural" advisor is an advantage. My big THANKS to Andy Flind! :) :)

Geo

05-29-2009, 06:57 PM

Geo

05-29-2009, 07:00 PM

You can see here toroidal coils I use on it. I saved from old PCBs, first these!

I believe that the coils here have many turns for this circuit. We want a transformer with Z1 as the z0 of the Loop and Z2 the total resistance of the transformer 2x6v/100ma
Regards:)

Geo

05-29-2009, 07:02 PM

When battery of this circuit is low, led and audio come crazy, so this "natural" advisor is an advantage. My big THANKS to Andy Flind! :) :)
So is it better to work with lower voltage and biger serial resistance????

Esteban

05-30-2009, 02:50 PM

Hi Esteban:).
The problem is that at my City i can't find the LM3915.
If it is better from passive receiver i will give it a try.
At who distance did you found the silver knives, spoons, etc?????
Also at one photo from you i saw inside a FM radio again????
What about it??? Did you found the silver knives with the radio inside or no??
Regards:)

Maybe you can replace by LM3914, but this is lineal in voltage, not logaritmic.

A friend found by similar machines based on this circuit. He found at 30 m, buried 1.30 meters. I put the radio inside, but is not necessary. Yes, the detection was with radio inside, but also without radio I found several times objects with it. I like it because this is some reluctance to detect riffle cartridges, for example, but round buttons silver, bronze, etc., coins and other things are detectable.

Esteban

05-30-2009, 02:53 PM

I believe that the coils here have many turns for this circuit. We want a transformer with Z1 as the z0 of the Loop and Z2 the total resistance of the transformer 2x6v/100ma
Regards:)

No, is a coil wound in core, only 2 ohms. You can't use here transformer, this is not useful for the pistol and because with transformer interferences of electric lines is a poison!

Esteban

05-30-2009, 02:56 PM

So is it better to work with lower voltage and biger serial resistance????

The voltage indicates for circuit is OK, but I use AA batteries, no the rectangular 9 V. I think, but I not try, to use resistor for each led for reduction of consumption.

Geo

05-30-2009, 03:39 PM

Thank you Esteban.
Maybe next week to have time to try it
My regards:)

Esteban

05-30-2009, 05:00 PM

Thank you Esteban.
Maybe next week to have time to try it
My regards:)

Maybe you have saved the constructional of aluminiun loop and core. This I post time ago, but here repost.

Regards

Max

05-30-2009, 06:05 PM

Maybe you have saved the constructional of aluminiun loop and core. This I post time ago, but here repost.

Regards

Hi Esteban,
I saw this picture from you... posted on page 2 of this thread...

Now... I know that circuit cause was employed in a pinpointer stuff (russian schematic based on that magazine too, I think first time I saw it was around 1989, is that possible ?) but know for use in pinpointers not LRL. I remember there's a lowered amplitude when e.g. iron is near...

Now this that's really surprising to me... see that stuff used for LRLs too I mean! It's very basic circuit , kind of hartley osc...:rolleyes:

Which kind of signal variations you read in presence of a gold target ?

And which is the range you noticed from it LRL behaviour in relationship with which target/size ?

Kind regards,
Max

Esteban

05-31-2009, 01:52 PM

Hi Esteban,
I saw this picture from you... posted on page 2 of this thread...

Now... I know that circuit cause was employed in a pinpointer stuff (russian schematic based on that magazine too, I think first time I saw it was around 1989, is that possible ?) but know for use in pinpointers not LRL. I remember there's a lowered amplitude when e.g. iron is near...

Now this that's really surprising to me... see that stuff used for LRLs too I mean! It's very basic circuit , kind of hartley osc...:rolleyes:

Which kind of signal variations you read in presence of a gold target ?

And which is the range you noticed from it LRL behaviour in relationship with which target/size ?

Kind regards,
Max

This is not the only circuit. This works as resonance off. Amplifier circuit uses a LM358 and 4066. Also a radio and beeper, so is 2 detector in one.

Distance for small things can be 5 m, a treasure can be detected at 30 m.

I don't read nothing, I hear the beeps! :lol:

Max

05-31-2009, 08:01 PM

This is not the only circuit. This works as resonance off. Amplifier circuit uses a LM358 and 4066. Also a radio and beeper, so is 2 detector in one.

Distance for small things can be 5 m, a treasure can be detected at 30 m.

I don't read nothing, I hear the beeps! :lol:

Hi,
yes... but you provide data for coil... but not the other stuff... :D

Don't understand why you post coil data and then nothing else... so the thing you posted is just an oscillator !?

So... why ?

Ok, your choice... but that's not easy belive it can be used with success in real, working LRL... it's really low power... and not "state of the art" about stability.

I think people will belive in LRLs if a REAL and COMPLETE schematic will be posted... and anyone could replicate and check if works or not.

Don't need 30 meters or 5 meters range... also 50cm for a coin could be enough to show people if device works or not... but that needs you post something complete... not pieces.;)

Kind regards,
Max

Geo

05-31-2009, 09:52 PM

Esteban

05-31-2009, 11:29 PM

Hi Max:).
As Esteban wrote it is a circuit from Andy Flind. I have the schematic so Esteban gives me info about the coil. But i like the open loop.

Esteban, if i will not use the radio, at who distance may i locate a big object?? other can you tell me how to connect the radio to the magnetic field detector???

Regards:)

The oscillator and Andy Flind's circuit :) are different things!

Maybe 30 meters... The input reductor in circuit (2K2) you must reduced for better sensibility.

Esteban

06-01-2009, 12:03 AM

Geo

Also, can be via trafo:

Esteban

06-01-2009, 01:46 AM

Maybe admins can obtain permission of EPE for to post this:

Geo

06-01-2009, 06:50 AM

The oscillator and Andy Flind's circuit :) are different things!

Maybe 30 meters... The input reductor in circuit (2K2) you must reduced for better sensibility.

Hi Esteban.
Thank you.
Some questions yet.
Does The antenna of radio must connected to c1 or must be a wire near the loop???
I suppose that i must use different power supply for radio and MFD.
At who frequency must tune the radio???

My Regards:)

Max

06-01-2009, 07:22 AM

Maybe admins can obtain permission of EPE for to post this:

Which was original purpose of this circuit ?

Magnetic anomaly detector ?

Kind regards,
Max

aft_72005

06-01-2009, 09:22 AM

Maybe admins can obtain permission of EPE for to post this:

Hi Esteban
Please say me what number and year published this article ?
Best regards.

Qiaozhi

06-01-2009, 09:41 AM

Hi Esteban
Please say me what number and year published this article ?
Best regards.

It looks like January 1995, but I cannot be absolutely certain about the year, as the resolution is so poor. The caption says it's a Magnetic Field Detector.

nelson

06-01-2009, 12:56 PM

Hi afl_72005, the article was published on december 1999.
I have it and i can share it, not here of course.
Regards
Nelson

Hi Esteban
Please say me what number and year published this article ?
Best regards.

nelson

06-01-2009, 01:04 PM

I agree

Hi,
yes... but you provide data for coil... but not the other stuff... :D

Don't understand why you post coil data and then nothing else... so the thing you posted is just an oscillator !?

So... why ?

Ok, your choice... but that's not easy belive it can be used with success in real, working LRL... it's really low power... and not "state of the art" about stability.

I think people will belive in LRLs if a REAL and COMPLETE schematic will be posted... and anyone could replicate and check if works or not.

Don't need 30 meters or 5 meters range... also 50cm for a coin could be enough to show people if device works or not... but that needs you post something complete... not pieces.;)

Kind regards,
Max

aft_72005

06-01-2009, 01:21 PM

It looks like January 1995, but I cannot be absolutely certain about the year, as the resolution is so poor. The caption says it's a Magnetic Field Detector.

Hi Qiaozhi

:):):):)..................

aft_72005

06-01-2009, 01:26 PM

It looks like January 1995, but I cannot be absolutely certain about the year, as the resolution is so poor. The caption says it's a Magnetic Field Detector.

Hi Qiaozhi
For reply and your attention ,thanks
Best regards.

aft_72005

06-01-2009, 01:33 PM

Hi afl_72005, the article was published on december 1999.
I have it and i can share it, not here of course.
Regards
Nelson

Hi friend ,Nelson
I am at holydays and far from my home now, and cannot reach to my EPE magazines archive.
Please send me it.
My email: aft.72005@gmail.com (aft.72005@gmail.com)
Best regards.

Qiaozhi

06-01-2009, 02:01 PM

Hi afl_72005, the article was published on december 1999.
I have it and i can share it, not here of course.
Regards
Nelson
Are you sure? It definitely says January, not December.
Click on the image and save it. Then zoom in and take a look.

Fred

06-01-2009, 02:37 PM

Esteban

06-01-2009, 03:58 PM

Hi Esteban.
Thank you.
Some questions yet.
Does The antenna of radio must connected to c1 or must be a wire near the loop???
I suppose that i must use different power supply for radio and MFD.
At who frequency must tune the radio???

My Regards:)

The cable or wire near the loop is the radio antenna, this is independent.

This is another dispossition, audio of MFL don't go to radio pot, both audio go to beeper circ. independent!

HOW TO TEST: put near the loop an electric clock, at each 1 second pulse led brights and beeps sound is present. My loop system is very free of interference, obviously with few ohms coil.

I try it in 4 or 5 variations and ALL works good.

Esteban

06-01-2009, 04:11 PM

December 99 was another magnetic detetector.
I think the one Esteban posted was using a power supply transformer as sensor and claimed to detect a train kilometers aways, i dÂ´nt know if it was an electric powered train or detection was of the moving metallic mass, what would be amazing.

I see in one part of these forums EPE advertisement, the magazine has rights, so maybe is not good idea to post without permission.

Esteban

06-01-2009, 04:16 PM

Which was original purpose of this circuit ?

Magnetic anomaly detector ?

Kind regards,
Max

The article is called "Magnetic Field Detector".

Esteban

06-01-2009, 04:26 PM

The article is called "Magnetic Field Detector".

January 1995

Esteban

06-01-2009, 04:31 PM

December 99 was another magnetic detetector.
I think the one Esteban posted was using a power supply transformer as sensor and claimed to detect a train kilometers aways, i dÂ´nt know if it was an electric powered train or detection was of the moving metallic mass, what would be amazing.

If you put a magnet near a sensor, vibrations of big machinery can be detected at km... here the magnet also vibrates and is produced a AC voltage.

Esteban

06-01-2009, 05:12 PM

I agree

I vote positively for you for to be part of the "other" RS forum. Expect others vote for you. Was time ago.

Yo votÃ© por ti para que seas parte del "otro" foro. Espero que los otros voten a tu favor. Fue hace tiempo.

nelson

06-01-2009, 06:48 PM

Estimado Esteban, disculpa por escribir en espaÃ±ol, pero por tiempo ya que estoy en mi trabajo, no lo hago en ingles.
Quiero aclarar mi punto de vista con respecto a los detectores que estas investigando y de los cuales he podido apreciar que vas muy avanzado en el tema, por lo cual te felicito y aprecio tu trabajo.
En cuanto a mis comentarios, solo intento transmitir que para gente como yo, no tan experta como tu y muchos otros amigos en el foro, se nos hace muy dificil entender entre equemas y circuitos que salen a medias, lo que en mi caso me hace estar cada vez mas confundido.
Soy un fiel convencido de que esto realmente funciona, pero si se quiere lograr mayor experimentaciÃ³n al respecto, es necesario contar con esquemas y diagramas completos y detallados. Solo asÃ* los menos expertos podremos aportar nuestro granito de arena, para ayudar con experiencias al respecto y asÃ* lograr mejorar tu investigaciÃ³n y la de muchos otros amigos, por quienes de todos ustedes tengo un gran respeto y admiraciÃ³n.
No comprendo biÃ©n aÃºn lo del otro foro en que uno debe ser votado para calificar estar o no en el, pero si te puedo comentar que tengo mas de 25 aÃ±os de experiencia como radioaficionado licenciado al dÃ*a de hoy, hobbie que hoy me permite diseÃ±ar y modelar mis propias antenas.
Tengo mucha experimentaciÃ³n en antenas, en especial en antenas loop y loop magneticas. De ahÃ* que me llama tambiÃ©n la atenciÃ³n que a tus aparatos les colocas en algunos casos anatenas loop.
Bueno amigo Esteban, espero poder ser parte de ese foro o simplemente poder contar con informaciÃ³n mas detallada para el armado de un aparato de esos y asÃ* permitirme el derecho de experimentar e informar al foro mis experiencias. De las antenas, ahÃ* no tengo problema puedo diseÃ±ar y armar muchas segÃºn las experiencias, pero en el circuito asÃ* como lo veo, estoy algo complicado.
Gracias y animo con los experimentos.
Un abrazo
Nelson
ce3llp@mi.cl

I vote positively for you for to be part of the "other" RS forum. Expect others vote for you. Was time ago.

Yo votÃ© por ti para que seas parte del "otro" foro. Espero que los otros voten a tu favor. Fue hace tiempo.

Qiaozhi

06-01-2009, 07:04 PM

Please try to write in English.

The translator has messed it up a bit, but you can get the gist:

Dear Esteban, forgives for writing in Spanish, but per time since I am in my work, I do not do it in English.
I want to clarify my point of view with regard to the detectors that you are investigating and of which I could have appreciated that you are much advanced in the topic, for which I congratulate and appreciate you your work.
As for my comments, alone attempt to transmit that for the people as I, not so expert as you and many other friends in the forum, it is to us very difficult to understand between equemas and circuits that they go out by half, which in my case makes me be more and more confused.
I am a needle convinced that this really works, but if major experimentation wants to be achieved on this matter, it is necessary to be provided with schemes and finished and detailed diagrams. Only this way the least expert we will be able to contribute our sand granite, for to help with experiences on this matter and this way to manage to improve your investigation and that of many other friends, as whom of all of you I have a big respet.
I still do not understand biÃ©n that thing about another forum in which one must be voted to qualify to be or not in, but if I can mention to you that I have more than 25 years of experience as radioaficionado Bachelor to today, hobbie that today he allows me to design and to shape my own antennas.
I have great experimentation in antennas, especially in antennas loop and loop magnetic. Hence the attention calls me also that to your devices you place them in some cases anatenas loop.
Good friend Esteban, hoped to be able to be a part of this forum or simply to be able to be provided with information more detailed for armed with a device of those and like that to allow me the right to experiment and to inform to the forum my experiences. Of the antennas, there I have no problem can design and arm many according to the experiences, but in the circuit as well as I see it, I am slightly complicated.
Thank you and I cheer up with the experiments.
A hug
Nelson