US Department of Justice Identifies MFD and HID as Worthless Dowsing Gadgets

[Theseus]

The US Department of Justice published a report concerning explosives detection equipment. On page 71 and 72 of the report, they provide a warning about utilizing devices centered on dowsing techniques. The report specifically identifies MFD and HID based contraptions as worthless dowsing implements.

The entire report appears at:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/pubs-sum/178913.htm

The excerpt below is from page 71 and 72.

7. WARNING: DO NOT BUY BOGUS EXPLOSIVES
DETECTION EQUIPMENT
From time to time, there are new devices that enter the market. Most companies make reasonable claims, and their products are based on solid scientific principles. Claims for some other devices may seem unreasonable or may not appear to be based on solid scientific principles. An old truism that continues to offer good advise is “If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is not true.” If there are any questions as to the validity of a device, caution should be used and thorough research must be performed before a purchase is made. Money can be wasted and even lives may be risked. Although there may be other types of nonoperational devices around, dowsing devices for explosives detection have emerged during the past couple of years.

There is a rather large community of people around the world that believes in dowsing: the ancient practice of using forked sticks, swinging rods, and pendulums to look for underground water and other materials. These people believe that many types of materials can be located using a variety of dowsing methods. Dowsers claim that the dowsing device will respond to any buried anomalies, and years of practice are needed to use the device with discrimination (the ability to cause the device to respond to only those materials being sought). Modern dowsers have been developing various new methods to add discrimination to their devices. These new methods include molecular frequency discrimination (MFD) and harmonic induction discrimination (HID). MFD has taken the form of everything from placing a xerox copy of a Poloroid photograph of the desired material into the handle of the device, to using dowsing rods in conjunction with frequency generation electronics (function generators). None of these attempts to create devices that can detect specific materials such as explosives (or any materials for that matter) have been proven successful in controlled double-blind scientific tests. In fact, all testing of these inventions has shown these devices to perform no better than random chance.

Mostly these devices are used to locate water and now are used extensively by treasure hunters looking for gold and silver. In recent years some makers of these dowsing devices have attempted to cross over from treasure hunting to the areas of contraband detection, search and rescue, and law enforcement. The Quadro Tracker is one notable example of this cross-over attempt. This device was advertised as being a serious technology with a realistic sounding description of how it worked (close examination showed serious errors in the scientific sounding description). Fortunately, the National Institute of Justice investigated this company and stopped the sale of this device for these purposes, but not before many law enforcement agencies and school districts wasted public funds on the purchase of these devices.

Things to look for when dealing with “new technologies” that may well be a dowsing device are words like molecular frequency discrimination, harmonic induction discrimination, and claims of detecting small objects at large distances.

Many of these devices require no power to operate (most real technology requires power). Suspect any device that uses a swinging rod that is held nearly level, pivots freely and “indicates” the material being sought by pointing at it. Any device that uses a pendulum that swings in different shaped paths to indicate its response should also arouse suspicion. Advertisements that feature several testimonials by “satisfied users,” and statements about pending tests by scientific and regulatory agencies (but have just not happened yet) may be indications that the device has not been proven to work. Statements that the device must be held by a human to operate usually indicate dowsing devices. Statements that the device requires extensive training by the factory, the device is difficult to use, and not everyone can use the device, are often made to allow the manufacturer a way of blaming the operator for the device’s failure to work. Another often used diversion is that scientists and engineers cannot understand the operation of the device or the device operates on principles that have been lost or forgotten by the scientific community.

In general, any legitimate manufacturer of contraband detection equipment will eagerly seek evaluation of their device’s performance by scientific and engineering laboratories. Any doubt that a device is legitimate can quickly be dispelled by making a call to any of the known agencies whose business it is to know about security-related technology.

So.... do any of the terms and warnings given above sound like something we've heard discussed here??? How about it, Dell, Tim, Vincent... Bob ???

[Qiaozhi]

The Grim Reaper cometh...

[Mike(Mont)]

Anyone can say anything they want, but that doesn't mean they are qualified to make the statements. Add to this someone "priming" them with negativity and you have a biased experiment. All I can say is they must have had some skeptic claiming to be knowlegeable--maybe even someone from this forum. If they really did say that MFD doesn't work any better than random chance (Where have I heard that before?), their findings are wrong. And you never know what the goverment is really up to. They constantly provide false information.

[Max]

Anyone can say anything they want, but that doesn't mean they are qualified to make the statements. Add to this someone "priming" them with negativity and you have a biased experiment. All I can say is they must have had some skeptic claiming to be knowlegeable--maybe even someone from this forum. If they really did say that MFD doesn't work any better than random chance (Where have I heard that before?), their findings are wrong. And you never know what the goverment is really up to. They constantly provide false information.

Hmmmmm....


if Sandia Labs say that are BS... I belive that. :lol:

Or have I to belive that you can find paper money with them at 1mile distance ?

Or drugs ?

Or explosive stuff ?

Or weapons ?

C'mon... get a life.... :D

You read too many science fiction... few is good... too much cook the remaining neurons... like in Esteban's case with PaloAlto... he takes too much... and now he's sick! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[WM6]

Why even bother with these dowsing rods, MFDs, HIDs, LRLs and such things, why simply just not use old and proven Vipassana mental LRL technique?

Vipassana is efective and learned by free course:

Read here:

"Vipassana, which means to see things that really are, is one of India's most ancient techniques of meditation. It was rediscovered by Gotama Buddha more than 2500 years ago .....

.... The technique is taught at ten-day residential courses during which participants follow a prescribed Code of Discipline (http://www.dhamma.org/en/code.shtml), learn the basics of the method, and practice sufficiently to experience its beneficial results.

There are no charges for the courses - not even to cover the cost of food and accommodation. All expenses are met by donations from people who, having completed a course and experienced the benefits of Vipassana, wish to give others the opportunity to benefit from it also.

Of course, the results come gradually through continued practice. It is unrealistic to expect all LRL problems to be solved in ten days. Within that time, however, the essentials of Vipassana can be learned so that it can be applied in daily life. The more the technique is practiced, the greater the freedom from misery (of course you will find tons of gold !!!! not only visible pull-tab like mineoro), and the closer the approach to the ultimate goal of full liberation. Even ten days can provide results which are vivid and obviously beneficial in everyday life."


So? Why waiting and smuggling with LRLs around? Grab Vipassana!!!!!!

[Theseus]

Anyone can say anything they want, but that doesn't mean they are qualified to make the statements. Add to this someone "priming" them with negativity and you have a biased experiment. All I can say is they must have had some skeptic claiming to be knowlegeable--maybe even someone from this forum. If they really did say that MFD doesn't work any better than random chance (Where have I heard that before?), their findings are wrong. And you never know what the goverment is really up to. They constantly provide false information.

You can't be serious.

If paranoia was a tea cup, you'd be the Grand Canyon.

Dowsing (including LRL/MFD) is a trick of the mind. Live with it. :razz:

[Mike(Mont)]

The first thing that threw me off was Janet Reno's name on it.

I didn't read the article, just skiimed through it. Nowhere did I see any double-blind testing of MFD equipment, only a vague reference that it had been done. No references at all. That's bogus, as is their bias against all dowsing equipment. What do you expect?

[Theseus]

The first thing that threw me off was Janet Reno's name on it.

I didn't read the article, just skiimed through it.

Maybe you should have read it more closely.

Then again, I doubt very much if any sort of facts and truth ever get through your mindset and filters.

You are one sad case.... :frown:

Whose name did you think would be on a document from the Justice Department; Dell Winders ????

[WM6]

Whose name did you think would be on a document from the Justice Department; Dell Winders ????

Probably Oprah Winfrey ...

[J_Player]

Anyone can say anything they want, but that doesn't mean they are qualified to make the statements. Add to this someone "priming" them with negativity and you have a biased experiment. All I can say is they must have had some skeptic claiming to be knowlegeable--maybe even someone from this forum. If they really did say that MFD doesn't work any better than random chance (Where have I heard that before?), their findings are wrong. And you never know what the goverment is really up to. They constantly provide false information.Hmmmm....

"And you never know what the goverment is really up to. They constantly provide false information."

Now, you might have something there. Of course...
The government discovered MFDs work excellent to detect explosives, and they want to keep this information from falling into the hands of the general public, same as they are hiding the 150 MPG carburettors, and alien space ship technology. Of course, this is all part of a sinister scheme to take control of the entire world by controlling all the advanced technology. I can see how hiding advanced MFD explosive detectors falls into this plan. When the underground resistance wants to find government explosive stockpiles, they will not have the advantage of these convenient MFDs, simply because they have been convinced they don't work. Hopefully you will be among the freedom fighters to help save the world wiith your MFDs when the days of hopeless tyrannical world takeover come.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

The first thing that threw me off was Janet Reno's name on it.

I didn't read the article, just skiimed through it. Nowhere did I see any double-blind testing of MFD equipment, only a vague reference that it had been done. No references at all. That's bogus, as is their bias against all dowsing equipment. What do you expect?
It appears that Einstein was on your side:

He was quoted as saying - "If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." :rolleyes:

[Dell Winders]

A fact for any Idiots that may read this post. :lol:

I have never seen any report, or am I aware of any HID, or MFD products I manufacture that have ever been field tested by Sandia Labs? Dell

Disclaimer on Presented Research Results

NIJ is the research, development, and evaluation agency of the U.S. Department of Justice and is dedicated to researching crime control and justice issues.

Much of the content presented on this site results from NIJ-funded research, development, and evaluation projects. The content is not intended to create, does not create, and may not be relied upon to create any rights, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law by any party in any matter civil or criminal.

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See also additional Legal Policies and Disclaimers for all U.S. Department of Justice Web content.
Date Entered: January 8, 2008

[Qiaozhi]

A fact for any Idiots that may read this post. :lol:

I have never seen any report, or am I aware of any HID, or MFD products I manufacture that have ever been field tested by Sandia Labs? Dell
Maybe they have better things to do. :razz:

[Max]

A fact for any Idiots that may read this post. :lol:

I have never seen any report, or am I aware of any HID, or MFD products I manufacture that have ever been field tested by Sandia Labs? Dell

Then read here... and enjoy! :lol:

http://www.skepdic.com/quadro.html

[Max]

Maybe they have better things to do. :razz:

Or maybe Dell is too busy selling his Omnifu%k stuff to read articles... :D

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Then read here... and enjoy! :lol:

http://www.skepdic.com/quadro.htmlHmmmm....
It says here:
Sandia Labs of Albuquerque, New Mexico, took one apart and discovered that there is nothing inside. It probably costs about $2 to make....

...In court it was pointed out that the Quadro Detector had been carefully examined and that no "inductors, conductors, or oscillators" were found, though Quadro advertised those as the working parts of its "secret technology." Quadro claimed that theirs were not "ordinary" inductors, conductors, or oscillators. Theirs are of an advanced sort not yet known to "regular science."

And the Quadro-tracker advertising said:
...The frequency chip is oscillated by static electricity produced by the body [of the user] inhaling and exhaling gases into and out of the lung cavity. This static electricity is propagated on the surface of the body to the tracker which utilizes the charge to oscillate the chip....All matter contains exact molecular frequencies. When a magnetic field is created by a contained electrically charged body moving through space at a perpendicular angle moving to its direction, and that field is brought into alignment with another exact field, resonating at the identical frequency modulation, then both objects attract, just as two bodies are attracted toward each other in a gravitational field".

Somehow, their claims sound similar to secret science discoveries we have read posted by a famous expert in this forum... :rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Hmmmmm....


if Sandia Labs say that are BS... I belive that. :lol:

Or have I to belive that you can find paper money with them at 1mile distance ?

Or drugs ?

Or explosive stuff ?

Or weapons ?

C'mon... get a life.... :D

You read too many science fiction... few is good... too much cook the remaining neurons... like in Esteban's case with PaloAlto... he takes too much... and now he's sick! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

You are insane...

[Mike(Mont)]

Why would the government want to suppress info? Anyone who thinks the government would offer military info "for the good of society" is sadly mistaken. Here's a story.

A chinese man invented a man-carrying kite/flying machine (remember flying magic carpets? Very similar to early hang gliders.) and he took it to the emperor. The emperor said that's very nice but now I have to kill you. If the enemy gets this info they will be able to fly over the Great Wall and attack us.

How much iinfo on dowsing has the government suppress, no one knows. Many people who worked in the remote viewing program think they are still involved.

As for the Quardo locators, I owned one and I did find some gold with it. Also found some paper money in a contest with about thirty other people. While I admit it was basically a dowsing rod, ther might have been more to it than the government-funded skeptics could understand. At any rate, it was not an MFD or HID device. Just like using metal detectors, some people are more skilled. And they are not 100% accurate, but they don't need to be (compared to a bomb sniffer).

I have to believe this group never even looked at an MFD. They probably took someone else's opinion as fact. It's quite obvious they discounted the entire dowsing scenario, and I might add their wording mimicks other skeptics. It appears to me someone fed them a line of BS and they ate it with a spoon.

[WM6]

As for the Quardo locators, I owned one and I did find some gold with it. .

For sure, in the grandmother's jewelry box.


Also found some paper money in a contest with about thirty other people

Now I believe in LRL. You are searching in the Bank? The cops came too late? Unbelievable!

[Max]

You are insane...

Me !? :lol:

I don't say I can find paper money with a plastic made full of farts gizmo... nor I sell it also to FBI ! :razz:

Do I ? :rolleyes:

Or you manybe mean Mike(Mont) is a "normal" person ??? :lol:

Don't you remember where he posted about the stuff you put on your tongue to detect things from remote.... :cool:

Which will be next step ??? Put the PaloAlto in your back and use as a dowsing rod !?:D

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Me !? :lol:

I don't say I can find paper money with a plastic made full of farts gizmo... nor I sell it also to FBI ! :razz:

Do I ? :rolleyes:

Or you manybe mean Mike(Mont) is a "normal" person ??? :lol:

Don't you remember where he posted about the stuff you put on your tongue to detect things from remote.... :cool:

Which will be next step ??? Put the PaloAlto in your back and use as a dowsing rod !?:D

Kind regards,
Max

First, look yourself, do you're normal?

[Dell Winders]

Actually the people at Quadro, did use one of my Frequency Discriminators (MFD) to find a sunken River boat, and recovered a safe with $ 50,000 + in it, before they invented Quadro.

At my own expense, I went to Carolina, purchased a Quadro, field tested it for a week in that envoirment, and dissected the Quadro, 3 months before it went on the market. I cautioned Treasure Hunters against purchasing the product.

No, there is no similarity between Quadro, and the MFD concept. Skeptics writing their pretend Science junk, appear to be too stupid to recognize the difference, or even care if what they write is fact, or truth.

A good example is the author of this misleading Header;

US Department of Justice Identifies MFD and HID as Worthless Dowsing Gadgets

That's NOT TRUE, as any idiot can see by reading the Justice Department disclaimer.

They make no affirmation that the Author's statement is true. In fact, the author(s) remain anonymous. It could have been any one of you that wrote the negative report.

The first time I read this report posted on a public forum it included the name "OMNITRON."

There are certainly plenty of reasons to question the Skeptic's practice of deception and pretend Science? I also question the mentality, and agenda behind it? Dell

[Max]

First, look yourself, do you're normal?

What do you mean ???

If I'm in the average of people ?

Sure... no, I'm not... dang ! but this is another issue... :D

But for "normal" of the post above I meant not-insane... :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Actually the people at Quadro, did use one of my Frequency Discriminators (MFD) to find a sunken River boat, and recovered a safe with $ 50,000 + in it, before they invented Quadro.

At my own expense, I went to Carolina, purchased a Quadro, field tested it for a week in that envoirment, and dissected the Quadro, 3 months before it went on the market. I cautioned Treasure Hunters against purchasing the product.

No, there is no similarity between Quadro, and the MFD concept. Skeptics writing their pretend Science junk, appear to be too stupid to recognize the difference, or even care if what they write is fact, or truth.

A good example is the author of this misleading Header;

US Department of Justice Identifies MFD and HID as Worthless Dowsing Gadgets

That's NOT TRUE, as any idiot can see by reading the Justice Department disclaimer.

They make no affirmation that the Author's statement is true. In fact, the author(s) remain anonymous. It could have been any one of you that wrote the negative report.

The first time I read this report posted on a public forum it included the name "OMNITRON."

There are certainly plenty of reasons to question the Skeptic's practice of deception and pretend Science? I also question the mentality, and agenda behind it? Dell

Isn't MFD in the mind of belivers and sellers stay for "Multi Frequency Discrimination" and similar stuff ??? :D

Then the article I posted link , do you read it ?

This part:

"Quadro claimed that the device uses "tuned frequency chips" to hone in on its target:

The frequency chip is oscillated by static electricity produced by the body [of the user] inhaling and exhaling gases into and out of the lung cavity. This static electricity is propagated on the surface of the body to the tracker which utilizes the charge to oscillate the chip...."

Now... tell me... what's that frequency they wrote ? Isn't the magic "resonant" frequency of wanted target ?
Isn't that way that the device is claimed to be discriminating stuff ?

So , following that it's what belivers call MFD.

But seems you don't like that... :D

Your problem not mine.

Kind regards,
Max

[Dell Winders]

Just read what electronics people are saying in their advertising about the LRL products they manufacture. Are you a believer in what Electronic Engineers, and Techs say?

Apparently not. Neither am I.
Electronics people are ripping off LRL customers with deceptive advertising, and high prices.

Again, I repeat. There is no relation between the method of Discrimination used by Quadro, and my MFD products, so quit trying to inference a connection. You are speaking in ignorance.

You also ignore a pertinent fact. The Government, with all it's resources, was unable to prove it's case against Quadro. Quadro, was found "NOT GUILTY" of all charges.

If you don't like the verdict, take it up with the Justice department, not me. Dell

[Fred]

Actually the people at Quadro, did use one of my Frequency Discriminators (MFD) to find a sunken River boat, and recovered a safe with $ 50,000 + in it, before they invented Quadro.

I can do that too, when my dowsing rod is pointing down it means the sunken boat is below the water.

[J_Player]

I can do that too, when my dowsing rod is pointing down it means the sunken boat is below the water.Hmmmm.....
I guess that's true indicator that proves it works because it will always show the target is below the surface of the water or below the surface of the earth, Never a false reading showing the target is buried in the sky... :rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Just read what electronics people are saying in their advertising about the LRL products they manufacture. Are you a believer in what Electronic Engineers, and Techs say?

Apparently not. Neither am I.
Electronics people are ripping off LRL customers with deceptive advertising, and high prices.

Again, I repeat. There is no relation between the method of Discrimination used by Quadro, and my MFD products, so quit trying to inference a connection. You are speaking in ignorance.

You also ignore a pertinent fact. The Government, with all it's resources, was unable to prove it's case against Quadro. Quadro, was found "NOT GUILTY" of all charges.

If you don't like the verdict, take it up with the Justice department, not me. Dell

It's an MFD and it's worthless... like all the others. :rolleyes:

Ignorance ? Me ?

Have you graduated in physics at Harvard , no ? :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hmmmm.....
I guess that's true indicator that proves it works because it will always show the target is below the surface of the water or below the surface of the earth, Never a false reading showing the target is buried in the sky... :rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

Hmmmmmm......

it's like a plumabob... :lol:

useful...at least! :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

...At my own expense, I went to Carolina, purchased a Quadro, field tested it for a week in that envoirment, and dissected the Quadro, 3 months before it went on the market. I cautioned Treasure Hunters against purchasing the product.Hi Dell,
When you dissected the Quadro, did you find there was nothing inside as was written on the page Max posted? Or did you find something inside?

"Sandia Labs of Albuquerque, New Mexico, took one apart and discovered that there is nothing inside".

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi Dell,
When you dissected the Quadro, did you find there was nothing inside as was written on the page Max posted? Or did you find something inside?

"Sandia Labs of Albuquerque, New Mexico, took one apart and discovered that there is nothing inside".

Best wishes,
J_P

Maybe found nothing... apart some plastic chip...

I think he uses that box now for the Viagra stuff.... the stuff used for for fishing! :lol:

Just I don't know where he find the brainless chicks like at MTV... maybe uses dowsing rods to locate them... :shocked:

Or money from customers... :lol:

Dell... take it easy... it's just a joke!;)

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Maybe found nothing... apart some plastic chip...Thats what I was wondering. If Sandia labs found there was nothing inside, and Quadro people claim there is a chip inside that oscillates, then either they did not put the chip inside, or maybe they did, and Sandia Labs couldn't find it. Just wondering if Dell found anything at all inside, and if so, what he found?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

It's an MFD and it's worthless... like all the others.

Ignorance ? Me ?

Have you graduated in physics at Harvard , no ?

Kind regards,
Max

Have you graduated in physics at Harvard?

Physics? How about Earth Science, applied Physics?

Alas, another scientific pretender proudly brain washing him self in mindless rhetoric.

I'm sorry, I didn't lecture at Harvard, so perhaps you have an excuse for your displays of ignorance, Dell

[Qiaozhi]

You also ignore a pertinent fact. The Government, with all it's resources, was unable to prove it's case against Quadro. Quadro, was found "NOT GUILTY" of all charges.

On January 19, 1996, the FBI Economic Crimes unit seized the merchandise and records of the Quadro Corporation and arrested its officers. In April, 1996, a federal judge issued a permanent injunction against Quadro Corp, which was convicted of engaging in a mail and wire scheme to defraud customers, under statutes 18 U.S.C. 1341 and 1343.

Hmmm... the case looks "proved" to me. :razz:
You must be careful who you defraud. :rolleyes:

[Rudy]

Just read what electronics people are saying in their advertising about the LRL products they manufacture. Are you a believer in what Electronic Engineers, and Techs say?

Apparently not. Neither am I.
Electronics people are ripping off LRL customers with deceptive advertising, and high prices.

Dell, that is very kind of you. Lord knows, we wouldn't want to be taken in by those lying electronic folks lying about their LRLs.


Again, I repeat. There is no relation between the method of Discrimination used by Quadro, and my MFD products, so quit trying to inference a connection. You are speaking in ignorance.

Of course your multi-frequency discriminator is different since it was designed by someone that knows noting about electronics. I mean, it
doesn't work, but in a different way than that other LRL.

[Qiaozhi]

Of course your multi-frequency discriminator is different since it was designed by someone that knows noting about electronics. I mean, it
doesn't work, but in a different way than that other LRL.
In fact, the 3 Quadro employees were later acquitted, but it was because the Department Of Justice could not prove intent to defraud. However, the device was proved to be worthless and Quadro was closed down.

So it appears they were also ignorant of electronics.

[J_Player]

In fact, the 3 Quadro employees were later acquitted, but it was because the Department Of Justice could not prove intent to defraud. However, the device was proved to be worthless and Quadro was closed down.

So it appears they were also ignorant of electronics.The three employees did not intend to defraud....
So what did they intend to do? Whatever their boss told them to do?
Maybe they were just shipping clerks who didn't know what was in the boxes?
And the guy who sweeps the floor?

I guess you gotta be careful when you see a job offer for shipping clerk or janitor.
If you don't check out the company you're working for, you could end up in federal court.
At least they didn't work for a company who told them to deliver packages, and return with locked suitcases handed to them by the customers... :rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Have you graduated in physics at Harvard?

Physics? How about Earth Science, applied Physics?

Alas, another scientific pretender proudly brain washing him self in mindless rhetoric.

I'm sorry, I didn't lecture at Harvard, so perhaps you have an excuse for your displays of ignorance, Dell

:lol:

poor Dell... use the Quadro as viagra pills-box! :razz:

At least you're smart enough to understand it can be used for a smarter thing (and worth) than dowsing! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

In fact, the 3 Quadro employees were later acquitted, but it was because the Department Of Justice could not prove intent to defraud. However, the device was proved to be worthless and Quadro was closed down.

So it appears they were also ignorant of electronics.

Don't they graduated in physics at Harvad like Dell ??? :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

The three employees did not intend to defraud....
So what did they intend to do? Whatever their boss told them to do?
Maybe they were just shipping clerks who didn't know what was in the boxes?
And the guy who sweeps the floor?

I guess you gotta be careful when you see a job offer for shipping clerk or janitor.
If you don't check out the company you're working for, you could end up in federal court.
At least they didn't work for a company who told them to deliver packages, and return with locked suitcases handed to them by the customers... :rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

Yes that's true...

There's such kind of risk... I also know that an attorney who supported Quadro was fined by court... $5000 or something similar.

I don't know if he was aware that the gizmoes were fake...

You know... the risks exist in this world... so maybe you think you'll support a good and respectable hi-tech company and then , just later, discover it's just a fraud stuff...

It's clear why... if even people that know about electronics can be tricked by these claims what about a lawyer or attorney who (usually) don't ???

But if you consider that stuff in any aspect you'll see is not much different from TV-selling stuff... that promise miracle for that special e.g. plantar or something (think electro-medical stuff also) but then are plain frauds to unawared customers.

Now... not anyone has a degree in physics at Harvard... so they easy trick people that way... but how many are so stupid to sell such a long range device to the FBI ??? :lol:

They have dug their own graves. :D

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Yes that's true...

There's such kind of risk... I also know that an attorney who supported Quadro was fined by court... $5000 or something similar.

I don't know if he was aware that the gizmoes were fake...

It's clear why... if even people that know about electronics can be tricked by these claims what about a lawyer or attorney who (usually) don't ???Sure,,,
The attorney working for the Quadro poeple got his information from them...

...The frequency chip is oscillated by static electricity produced by the body [of the user] inhaling and exhaling gases into and out of the lung cavity. This static electricity is propagated on the surface of the body to the tracker which utilizes the charge to oscillate the chip....All matter contains exact molecular frequencies. When a magnetic field is created by a contained electrically charged body moving through space at a perpendicular angle moving to its direction, and that field is brought into alignment with another exact field, resonating at the identical frequency modulation, then both objects attract, just as two bodies are attracted toward each other in a gravitational field".

When he told this stuff to the court, no wonder they fined him! :lol:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

In fact, the 3 Quadro employees were later acquitted, but it was because the Department Of Justice could not prove intent to defraud. However, the device was proved to be worthless and Quadro was closed down.

So it appears they were also ignorant of electronics.

That is very true. It was decided by their lawyer the best defense would be to plead total ignorance of any intent for wrong doing. And... It worked like a charm.

Kind of reminds me of the same routine from another scammer. Apparently they learn from each other, and by studying what works should they ever be hauled into court. :D

[Fred]

If i am being paid to stick decals on empty boxes with funny looking i am not sure i can be held responsible for what the boss will do with the finished product.

For example can Pillips workers assembling TV sets be held responsible if the TVs dont work as advertised?

[J_Player]

If i am being paid to stick decals on empty boxes with funny looking i am not sure i can be held responsible for what the boss will do with the finished product.

For example can Pillips workers assembling TV sets be held responsible if the TVs dont work as advertised?That sounds right to me.
So should we apply for a job putting Omnitron decals on boxes to be shipped?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

That is very true. It was decided by their lawyer the best defense would be to plead total ignorance of any intent for wrong doing. And... It worked like a charm.

Kind of reminds me of the same routine from another scammer. Apparently they learn from each other, and by studying what works should they ever be hauled into court. :D

No... :nono:

They graduated all together in Physics at Harvard! :lol:

And in scams and frauds at Omnifu%k University... :D

Like Madoff... ops...:rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Theseus]

With the Target Discriminator You don't need a mental image of what you are searching for, or even know what kind of a sample is in the chamber for it to Discriminate to select targets. It works on principles of physics. No mental dowsing ability is required. Like an expensive LRL, It can also be used to generate Signal lines, to help detect, and trace to targets from a distance, but at a fraction of the cost of an LRL.It certainly would be interesting to know which principles of physics are involved in this PVC plumbing device.

Only principle that is real obvious would be when cash changes hands, from the buyer to the seller. ;)

[Max]

It certainly would be interesting to know which principles of physics are involved in this PVC plumbing device.

Only principle that is real obvious would be when cash changes hands, from the buyer to the seller. ;)

Nice joke....ops...

But that's not politically correct! :nono:

Just serious posts from now on... ;)

Kind regards,
Max

[WM6]

If "Quadro" are convicted, than they are guilty.

Very simple thing, for their innocence they would have to prove that their boxes really act according to their promotional claims.

But they can not be able to show to jury such fact.

Everything else is just religious self-illusion's needed for LRL believers to survival.

[J_Player]

Quote:
With the Target Discriminator You don't need a mental image of what you are searching for, or even know what kind of a sample is in the chamber for it to Discriminate to select targets. It works on principles of physics. No mental dowsing ability is required. Like an expensive LRL, It can also be used to generate Signal lines, to help detect, and trace to targets from a distance, but at a fraction of the cost of an LRL.
It certainly would be interesting to know which principles of physics are involved in this PVC plumbing device.

Only principle that is real obvious would be when cash changes hands, from the buyer to the seller. ;)
Attached Images http://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9711&stc=1&d=1252433529

Ok, I'm sold!
I have been using a two-segment section of a styrofoam egg carton I salvaged from the trash to discriminate targets, with ZERO success rate. And I'm tired of it.
I want some high tech stuff based on physics that really works.

Sure, I wanna know where my lost can of chili beans are, but I also want to find some gold too. If this thing really works, then sign me up!
How much is it?
Where do I send in my cash, check, or money order?

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Ok, I'm sold!

J_P

I'm still waiting for Amphibious self digging robotic version.

[J_Player]

I'm still waiting for Amphibious self digging robotic version.No....
No overpriced robotic self digging BS for me.... I want the high tech physics designed PVC pipe gizmoe we see in the picture above. I know it will cost less than the can of chili beans I lost, and it will also find the lost can of chili beans too. And after that, I plan to find lots and lots of gold that will put me in a financial position to buy your Amphibious self digging robotic version. So you need to wait until I find my lost can of chili beans and untold fabulous gold treasure before I send in my order for the robotic version. :)

Best wishes,
J_p

[Qiaozhi]

It certainly would be interesting to know which principles of physics are involved in this PVC plumbing device.

Only principle that is real obvious would be when cash changes hands, from the buyer to the seller. ;)
You do honestly have to wonder who buys this rubbish. :shrug:

It's so obviously a nonsense device, and an insult to anyone's intelligence. There is no "physics" involved, just a trick of the mind.

[Theseus]

You do honestly have to wonder who buys this rubbish. :shrug:

It's so obviously a nonsense device, and an insult to anyone's intelligence. There is no "physics" involved, just a trick of the mind.

It is real reasonably priced at only $75 plus $10 shipping. A virtual steal at twice the price.

http://dowse.webs.com/apps/webstore/products/show/302027

What? You say there is no real physics involved. But what about what the ad copy says? It generates signal lines to targets up to 200 Feet away. Would that be a lie! :rolleyes: What happened to truth in advertising? Wonder what the FTC would say about this advertising? Do you suppose the Justice Department would reconsider their report if they could only get a look at this product?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Qiaozhi]

It is real reasonably priced at only $75 plus $10 shipping. A virtual steal at twice the price.

http://dowse.webs.com/apps/webstore/products/show/302027

What? You say there is no real physics involved. But what about what the ad copy says? It generates signal lines to targets up to 200 Feet away. Would that be a lie! :rolleyes: What happened to truth in advertising? Wonder what the FTC would say about this advertising? Do you suppose the Justice Department would reconsider their report if they could only get a look at this product?

:lol: :lol: :lol:
This part I can believe ->
And it works as well as some LRL's selling for $thousands$ of dollars.


Why am I not surprised that there's no link to Geotech?
http://dowse.webs.com/apps/links/

[Fred]

It is real reasonably priced at only $75 plus $10 shipping. A virtual steal at twice the price.:lol: :lol: :lol:


:stars: i thought the chili beans thing was a joke from the poster :shocked:

Very reasonably priced for such a high tech thing, but 40USD shipping :shocked:

[Mike(Mont)]

It appears to me that the "National Institute of Justice" is a misnomer just like many bills in Congress. At least on a jury of twelve you might get one person that is non-biased. Reminds me of an infamous skeptic who proclaimed he is "totally non-biased". Just like another skeptic on this forum claims he is a "nice guy". I think these skeptics really believe they are.

[Dell Winders]

Why am I not surprised that there's no link to Geotech?

The reason is obvious to intelligent viewers. But I will explain it for you. Geotech administrator, and Geotech skeptics on this forum have shown they have no field experience with Dowsing, or remote sensing methods used by Treasure Hunters, and speak with egotistical ignorance. Geotechian Skeptics simply have nothing of interest to offer viewers, except maybe rather stupid comic.

Clean up your act, demonstrate some intelligence, show a sincere interest in the subject, practice your Dowsing, and LRL use so you can speak intelligently on the subjects and if you can overcome your mental handicaps, I will exchange a link to Geotech, for a link to my site at http://www.dowse.webs.com

I don't consider dis-information, deception, scientific pretense, bias, prejudice, ignorance or mockery as good reasons to recommend the Geotech website.

For Tabloid journalism, and comic relief I would be more likely to recommend the author of this funny skeptic website over the Geotech proclaimed skeptic's contributions. Dell

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.treasure.hunting.lrl/topics?hl=en&lr=

[Qiaozhi]

For Tabloid journalism, and comic relief I would be more likely to recommend the author of this funny skeptic website over the Geotech proclaimed skeptic's contributions. Dell

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.treasure.hunting.lrl/topics?hl=en&lr=

"Funny skeptic website"?
It all looks quite reasonable to me. Unless you're an LRL salesman of course. :rolleyes:

[J_Player]

It is real reasonably priced at only $75 plus $10 shipping. A virtual steal at twice the price.

http://dowse.webs.com/apps/webstore/products/show/302027

What? You say there is no real physics involved. But what about what the ad copy says? It generates signal lines to targets up to 200 Feet away. Would that be a lie! :rolleyes: What happened to truth in advertising? Wonder what the FTC would say about this advertising? Do you suppose the Justice Department would reconsider their report if they could only get a look at this product?

:lol: :lol: :lol:WHAT!!!?
$75 plus $10 shipping?
Hey dude.... My lost chili beans only cost $0.79 on sale at the local supermarket!
How can I afford $89 to find them? huh?
So I can find the lost chili beans up to 200 feet away with the "dowser's edge".. well shove it!
I am not so lazy that I won't look around and find my lost chili beans without it. I bet I find a lot of other lost stuff in the process too.

Hmmmm....
This "dowser's Edge" thingy looks a lot like part of my back yard sprinkler pipes... I wonder....
Maybe if I cut off a small section of sprinkler pipe, and get some cap fittings I can make my own "dowser's edge"?
I wonder if it will have the same physics based properties of the genuine article that costs $79 plus shipping? :shrug:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Qiaozhi]

:stars: i thought the chili beans thing was a joke from the poster :shocked:

Very reasonably priced for such a high tech thing, but 40USD shipping :shocked:
Yes - I wondered that too, but then I looked at the rest of the site.
No further comment. :rolleyes:

[Theseus]

:stars: i thought the chili beans thing was a joke from the poster :shocked:

Very reasonably priced for such a high tech thing, but 40USD shipping :shocked:

I guess Dell figures once he has a sucker on the hook, they will not quibble over the postage, which is about half the cost of the product (outside the US).

As Qiaozhi said, who in their right mind would fall for such a scam? Only one poster here comes to mind. Won't mention a name but it starts with M and ends in e (M**e). :D

[Mike(Mont)]

"I think I'm an alright guy. I really do!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijUiwfm6P9E&feature=fvw

[J_Player]

:stars: i thought the chili beans thing was a joke from the poster :shocked:


Originally Posted by Theseus


...As Qiaozhi said, who in their right mind would fall for such a scam? Only one poster here comes to mind. Won't mention a name but it starts with M and ends in e (M**e). :DWho would fall for such a scam?
Hey, as a heartbroken loser of his can of chili beans, l almost fell for it too. Lucky I got sticker shock when I saw the price, or I would be paying $25 plus handling fees on my credit card for the next 6 months. Thanks for the tips.

ps. I haven't found my lost chili beans yet, but still searching.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Maybe if I cut off a small section of sprinkler pipe, and get some cap fittings I can make my own "dowser's edge"?
I wonder if it will have the same physics based properties of the genuine article that costs $79 plus shipping? :shrug:

Best wishes,
J_P
You don´t even need to cut your spinkler pipe.Just stick the bean inside (somehow)and it will work equally well.

[Qiaozhi]

"I think I'm an alright guy. I really do!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijUiwfm6P9E&feature=fvw
What are we supposed to be looking at in that link? :shrug:

[J_Player]

For Tabloid journalism, and comic relief I would be more likely to recommend the author of this funny skeptic website over the Geotech proclaimed skeptic's contributions. Dell
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.treasure.hunting.lrl/topics?hl=en&lr=Hi Dell,
I checked out your link for the funny skeptic website. I guess it's sorta cool, but it seems to fall short when compared to Geotech. It looks to me like the link you posted shows rantings that keep on with the exact same formula to "debunker" pseudoscience, which gets kind of boring after reading a few of their posts. But what I see in Geotech seems to have a more refreshing innovative character. Some skeptic posts at Geotech seem to take on an art form that can have skeptics as well as dowsing proponents laughing. I tried to do my part in my parody of the poor hillbilly who lost his can of chili beans, and I see the other skeptics are also up for some very innovative posts here too. It makes for good variety. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but it seems to me you get more quality entertainment in Geotech than other skeptic websites. Am I wrong about this?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

Stupid is, as stupid does. Dell

[Jim]

The reason is obvious to intelligent viewers. But I will explain it for you. Geotech administrator, and Geotech skeptics on this forum have shown they have no field experience with Dowsing, or remote sensing methods used by Treasure Hunters, and speak with egotistical ignorance. Geotechian Skeptics simply have nothing of interest to offer viewers, except maybe rather stupid comic.

Clean up your act, demonstrate some intelligence, show a sincere interest in the subject, practice your Dowsing, and LRL use so you can speak intelligently on the subjects and if you can overcome your mental handicaps, I will exchange a link to Geotech, for a link to my site at http://www.dowse.webs.com

I don't consider dis-information, deception, scientific pretense, bias, prejudice, ignorance or mockery as good reasons to recommend the Geotech website.

For Tabloid journalism, and comic relief I would be more likely to recommend the author of this funny skeptic website over the Geotech proclaimed skeptic's contributions. Dell

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.treasure.hunting.lrl/topics?hl=en&lr=


Interesting. That link you provided noted:

Dell Winders Lies To Gain Sympathy (http://groups.google.com/group/alt.treasure.hunting.lrl/browse_thread/thread/3e9c6e6a10f01ff4?hl=en#)

Are you still trying to gain sympathy...and is it working?

[Fred]

Stupid is, as stupid does. Dell

Each post you make make me feel smarter.Thanks Dell !

[Theseus]

Each post you make make me feel smarter.Thanks Dell !

:) I'm confident that was probably not his original intent. :lol: :lol:

[Theseus]

Incidentally, in case anyone else, besides Dell, is confused and misunderstanding of the link that he posted above:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.t...pics?hl=en&lr= (http://groups.google.com/group/alt.treasure.hunting.lrl/topics?hl=en&lr=)

Google is not the originating point for any Usenet Newsgroups. They (Google) merely have taken on the task of monitoring, and archiving (on Google Groups), the thousands of messages that constitute the daily traffic flowing through all of the Usenet Newsgroups.

A usenet newsgroup is a repository (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repository) usually within the Usenet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet) system, for messages posted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style) from many users in different locations. The term may be confusing to some, because it is usually a discussion group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion_group). Newsgroups are technically distinct from, but functionally similar to, discussion forums (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum) on the World Wide Web (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web). (<--quoted from Wikipedia in the interests of brevity)

Usenet resembles bulletin board systems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system) (BBS) in most respects, and is the precursor to the various Internet forums (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum) that are widely used today; and can be superficially regarded as a hybrid between e-mail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-mail) and web forums. Discussions are threaded (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threaded_discussion), with modern news reader software (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsreader_%28Usenet%29), as with web forums and BBSes, though posts are stored on the server sequentially. One notable difference between a BBS or web forum and Usenet is the absence of a central server and dedicated administrator. Usenet is distributed among a large, constantly changing conglomeration of servers that store and forward messages to one another. (<--quoted from Wikipedia in the interests of brevity)

Again, people like Dell, who are obviously unknowing about the workings and history of Usenet, can post their link to Google, and leave the impression (mistaken as it is) with innocent readers, that Google is somehow responsible for the content and topics they have archived and reprinted. They are not. You can think of Googlegroups as merely a window to the Usenet system for those who do not wish to read the messages with a standard newsreader. (Today, most all Email readers come standard with a newsreader - it only requires configuration by the user ;) )

Just thought I would add a little semblance of clarity for those who may have been confused by Dell's own misunderstanding. ;)

[J_Player]

Incidentally, in case anyone else, besides Dell, is confused and misunderstanding of the link that he posted above:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.t...pics?hl=en&lr= (http://groups.google.com/group/alt.treasure.hunting.lrl/topics?hl=en&lr=)

Google is not the originating point for any Usenet Newsgroups. They (Google) merely have taken on the task of monitoring, and archiving (on Google Groups), the thousands of messages that constitute the daily traffic flowing through all of the Usenet Newsgroups.

A usenet newsgroup is a repository (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repository) usually within the Usenet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet) system, for messages posted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style) from many users in different locations. The term may be confusing to some, because it is usually a discussion group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion_group). Newsgroups are technically distinct from, but functionally similar to, discussion forums (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum) on the World Wide Web (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web). (<--quoted from Wikipedia in the interests of brevity)

Usenet resembles bulletin board systems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system) (BBS) in most respects, and is the precursor to the various Internet forums (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum) that are widely used today; and can be superficially regarded as a hybrid between e-mail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-mail) and web forums. Discussions are threaded (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threaded_discussion), with modern news reader software (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsreader_%28Usenet%29), as with web forums and BBSes, though posts are stored on the server sequentially. One notable difference between a BBS or web forum and Usenet is the absence of a central server and dedicated administrator. Usenet is distributed among a large, constantly changing conglomeration of servers that store and forward messages to one another. (<--quoted from Wikipedia in the interests of brevity)

Again, people like Dell, who are obviously unknowing about the workings and history of Usenet, can post their link to Google, and leave the impression (mistaken as it is) with innocent readers, that Google is somehow responsible for the content and topics they have archived and reprinted. They are not. You can think of Googlegroups as merely a window to the Usenet system for those who do not wish to read the messages with a standard newsreader. (Today, most all Email readers come standard with a newsreader - it only requires configuration by the user ;) )

Just thought I would add a little semblance of clarity for those who may have been confused by Dell's own misunderstanding. ;)I can agree with that. Usenet was once the choice method to read up on the latest developments on the internet. But today, it is largely replaced by ordinary online forums and blogs. Still we find a few interesting things in Usenet that have not appeared in blogs and forums. Using Usenet requires a Usenet server and a client installed, and for a decent directory service, you need to pay a monthly fee, or use the inferior, but workable free services. Most people just don't bother. But nice of Google to archive this stuff so we don't have to go through the eternal torment of monthly fees and more clients to clog up our Windows registries.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Kev]

I know how all these LRLs work.....spiritism...the Bible gives the answer, near the end of human rulership of the world this occurs.

Revelation 12:9 "The huge serpent was thrown down. That ancient snake, named Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world, was thrown down to earth. Its angels were thrown down with it."

I know the demons are there, I've seen some really weird things during my 50 years. The demons aren't interested in finding Explosives, they want to screw with peoples minds and incite grandiose visions of wealth and power, and LRL dowsing is a good way to do it, because it opens the channel of mind submission and control....

I know this sounds really weird and your probably writing me off as just as nutty as the LRL people, :razz: but considering what I've seen and experienced it certainly explains why sometimes in the right hands LRL does seem to work, but hell there's no way I'm going to sell my soul to Satan, not even for all the gold in China!

My advice is stay well away from LRL it's as bad as ouija :nono:

Regards
Kev.

[WM6]

My advice is stay well away from LRL it's as bad as ouija :nono:

.

Except Anti-devil Onion Trans-natural Bio-LRL .

[J_Player]

Except Anti-devil Onion Trans-natural Bio-LRL .This one is only needed in the final days of the tribulations when minds are most susceptible to control?

Maybe good to stay away from LRLs, but fun to laugh in the LRL forum ... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Mike(Mont)]

You should read more on dowsing history. Many priests were dowsers. Some even say that Jesus was a dowser. Many of his miracles are very similar to dowsing.

I recall a young math genius who thought Christ was the Devil. He went into a church with a sledge hammer and a gun, killed the caretaker smashed many marble artworks and shot a couple of ROTC guys, then tried to burn down the church before the cops killed him.

Dowsing is also referred to as "divining". Now when you get into the Black Magic your dealing with evil intent. Dowsing for personal gain does not seem to fit that category.

[Kev]

Lets just say, LRL, diving, dowsing whatever you want to call it, is a miracle....because its principles of operation are beyond all physical reason.
But beware rationalisations because if you do, you have fallen into the deception...their power is ultimately from the darkside, and not even priests are immune if they dabble.:lol:

Cheers
Kev.

[Mike(Mont)]

I posted what I did to explain that dowsing is not demonic. It's bogus to make some generalization to the contrary.

[Mike(Mont)]

This thread is not about dowsing. It's also a mistake to equate MFD/HID with dowsing. Some people refuse to ackmowledge that the original units did not use L-rods--they had electronic receivers. Now I admit these are not anywhere near 100% reliable (they are highly suseptable to interference and it takes a longer time afterwards for the signal line to develop enough for the receiver to detect it) but just try and use the receiver without the transmitter. It won't work and it's not dowsing.

[J_Player]

...The demons aren't interested in finding Explosives, they want to screw with peoples minds and incite grandiose visions of wealth and power, and LRL dowsing is a good way to do it, because it opens the channel of mind submission and control....

My advice is stay well away from LRL it's as bad as ouija :nono:

Regards
Kev.Hi Kev,
I really like your technical posts in other forums. You are one of the best. And now you got me interested in this explanation of dowsing. It appears there are two mechanisms at work here: 1. Opening a channel of mind submission, and 2. inciting visions of wealth and power. I can see how the idea of dowsing to find treasure can be motivated by finding wealth, and it is done in a manner where the mind may be manipulated to become submissive to unknown influences.

We also see some semi-electronic devices that might fall into this category too. But somewhere there is a dividing line between metal detectors and dowsing gear. I mean, it is hard for me to imagine an average coin shooter out digging coins with his VLF detector as being in a "submissive" state of mind. It seems he is just out doing some recreational scavenging. Yet there is other electronic gear that looks like dowsing, but is claimed not to be dowsing, and works on some different principle. I was wondering your opinion if the kind of equipment shown below can be considered safe, or is it best to avoid?

[Theseus]

This thread is not about dowsing. It's also a mistake to equate MFD/HID with dowsing.

Why is that a mistake?

A receiver rod used with an MFD device still requires an ideomotor response from the operator before it will move (indicate).

A receiver rod used without an MFD device also requires an ideomotor response from the operator before it will move (indicate).

If you think/claim there is a difference, please post a simple experiment, that any of us can do to demonstrate this difference.

receiver rod, being any of a variety of L-shaped bent rods or wires.

[Dell Winders]

I know how all these LRLs work.....spiritism...the Bible gives the answer, near the end of human rulership of the world this occurs.

Revelation 12:9 "The huge serpent was thrown down. That ancient snake, named Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world, was thrown down to earth. Its angels were thrown down with it."

I know the demons are there, I've seen some really weird things during my 50 years. The demons aren't interested in finding Explosives, they want to screw with peoples minds and incite grandiose visions of wealth and power, and LRL dowsing is a good way to do it, because it opens the channel of mind submission and control....

I know this sounds really weird and your probably writing me off as just as nutty as the LRL people, but considering what I've seen and experienced it certainly explains why sometimes in the right hands LRL does seem to work, but hell there's no way I'm going to sell my soul to Satan, not even for all the gold in China!

My advice is stay well away from LRL it's as bad as ouija

Regards
Kev.

It appears that Kev, and Theseus, speak from personal experience, or from some sense of cosmic awareness that the rest of us do not posses. Living in modern times, perhaps they believe Edgar Cayce, was an evil man? Or that television, or computers, are the work of the devil? Or, even believe James Randi, the Skeptic's guru, is an honest and Godly man?

It's true, and provable, that the earlier Remote Sensing Frequency Discrimination instruments were totally electronic, and the signals were electronically metered. But, it was also proven over and over again that under the same field conditions that allowed the electronics to respond, the signals could also be metered with the reactions of a pair of handheld L-Rods. When the electronic instruments didn't respond under some Magnetic conditions, neither did the Rods. This prompted years of open minded field studies to understand this correlation.

No one was mindful that these studies were under the influence of Demonic possession?

According to most religions, Satan's powers of deception are far beyond the recognition and comprehension of mortal man. Like most, I probably don't recognize when intelligent, notable, trustful, and seemingly nice people are unmindful, or intentionally doing the will of Satan.

Belief is not a determining factor for me. Facts are. It either works in accordance to the physics of nature, or it won't work, and belief will not make it work, nor will belief, or unfounded presumption make it not work.

Considering their CLOSED MINDED, PREJUDICED BELIEFS, My advice would be to stay far away from Kev, and Theseus.

In light of truth and provable fact, their presumptions are as accurate as advice from a proclaimed Skeptics Ouija board. Dell

[Qiaozhi]

In light of truth and provable fact, their presumptions are as accurate as advice from a proclaimed Skeptics Ouija board. Dell
Isn't that an oxymoron? :lol:

[Max]

It appears that Kev, and Theseus, speak from personal experience, or from some sense of cosmic awareness that the rest of us do not posses. Living in modern times, perhaps they believe Edgar Cayce, was an evil man? Or that television, or computers, are the work of the devil? Or, even believe James Randi, the Skeptic's guru, is an honest and Godly man?

It's true, and provable, that the earlier Remote Sensing Frequency Discrimination instruments were totally electronic, and the signals were electronically metered. But, it was also proven over and over again that under the same field conditions that allowed the electronics to respond, the signals could also be metered with the reactions of a pair of handheld L-Rods. When the electronic instruments didn't respond under some Magnetic conditions, neither did the Rods. This prompted years of open minded field studies to understand this correlation.

No one was mindful that these studies were under the influence of Demonic possession?

According to most religions, Satan's powers of deception are far beyond the recognition and comprehension of mortal man. Like most, I probably don't recognize when intelligent, notable, trustful, and seemingly nice people are unmindful, or intentionally doing the will of Satan.

Belief is not a determining factor for me. Facts are. It either works in accordance to the physics of nature, or it won't work, and belief will not make it work, nor will belief, or unfounded presumption make it not work.

Considering their CLOSED MINDED, PREJUDICED BELIEFS, My advice would be to stay far away from Kev, and Theseus.

In light of truth and provable fact, their presumptions are as accurate as advice from a proclaimed Skeptics Ouija board. Dell

You don't need the Satan's cookbook for to make your crappy paintrollers and omnif$ck detectors! :D

Or maybe the hot melt glue was suggested by Satan ??? :shocked:

And if so... can we consider that as an ectoplasm! :shocked:

BTW Dell how are you ! Hope you well...

Kind regards,
Max

[Theseus]

It's true, and provable, that the earlier Remote Sensing Frequency Discrimination instruments were totally electronic, and the signals were electronically metered. Dell

That Is A Bold-faced Lie!


If the (imaginary) signals were measurable with electronic instrumentation, there would never have been a reason to employ a set of ordinary dowsing rods with each of your do-nothing MFD units.

The L-rods are required because they will respond to the ideomotor effect. The ideomotor effect is required because the idea of signal lines was concocted to fool the gullible and technically-challenged (ie. Mike) and to make it easier to market bogus LRL products.

[Dell Winders]

BTW Dell how are you ! Hope you well...

Kind regards,
Max

Thanks for asking. Certainly, I wish I was more physically capable, but other than that I am surviving.

The economic situation got a boost this month with the probably of participation in major projects in Utah, and the Bahamas.

Apparently, my paint roller services precede me and were recommended by two separate Archaeologist, and a Geologist. They may even know more about Earth Science physics, than the Scientific pretenders that post on this forum. I don't see why they would put their reputations on the line to recommend me if they didn't feel their confidence in my knowledge, and ability with what you call, "paint rollers" was justified.

I suspect the financiers of these projects will be well pleased with the results. We will have to wait to see how petty skeptics, and the Governments respond. ;) Dell

[Dell Winders]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dell Winders
It's true, and provable, that the earlier Remote Sensing Frequency Discrimination instruments were totally electronic, and the signals were electronically metered. Dell


That Is A Bold-faced Lie!

If the (imaginary) signals were measurable with electronic instrumentation, there would never have been a reason to employ a set of ordinary dowsing rods with each of your do-nothing MFD units.

The L-rods are required because they will respond to the ideomotor effect. The ideomotor effect is required because the idea of signal lines was concocted to fool the gullible and technically-challenged (ie. Mike) and to make it easier to market bogus LRL products

Theseus, and your many other aliases, with your constant demonstrations of Stupidity and Ignorance on this subject, it's really not wise to call me a Liar, unless you can back up your allegations with proof, and a substantial financial risk? Dell

[Theseus]

Theseus, and your many other aliases, with your constant demonstrations of Stupidity and Ignorance on this subject, it's really not wise to call me a Liar, unless you can back up your allegations with proof, and a substantial financial risk? Dell

You've been asked thousands of times over many decades to demonstrate electronic metering of your imaginary signal lines. To this date, you've not come forth with even a single spec of evidence, or supporting documentation.

In the words of a now famous Congressman; You Lie!

[Qiaozhi]

Apparently, my paint roller services precede me and were recommended by two separate Archaeologist, and a Geologist.
At least you have a sense of humor. :lol:

[J_Player]

...Apparently, my paint roller services precede me and were recommended by two separate Archaeologist, and a Geologist. They may even know more about Earth Science physics, than the Scientific pretenders that post on this forum. I don't see why they would put their reputations on the line to recommend me if they didn't feel their confidence in my knowledge, and ability with what you call, "paint rollers" was justified. Hi Dell,
It's good to hear the economic situation got a boost this month. Will you be traveling soon in connection with your services for these major projects in Utah, and the Bahamas?

Archaeologists and especially Geologists are known to have some knowledge of earth sciences because of their credentials. So if your services were recommended by these three people, these are impressive recommendations. Can you tell us more about the two archaeologists and the geologist who recommended your services? Who are they?

Best Wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

You've been asked thousands of times over many decades to demonstrate electronic metering of your imaginary signal lines. To this date, you've not come forth with even a single spec of evidence, or supporting documentation.

Theseus, To establish your own credibility, can you be more specific? Who is it that has asked me thousands of times over decades? Apparently, it's not you. The name Theseus, is relativity new to this forum, and represented here as an apparently fictitious name with no credibility what so ever.

The only other complainant I am aware of is a certifiable Nut case Whacko, named Sam Scafferi, who has been kicked off of every Treasure forum he ever posted his real name on.

Again, show your proof that totally electronically metered Remote Sensing Frequency Discrimination (MFD), that I used for 8 years, does not exist, and that I am lieing about it Please Go ahead, show any such factual proof to the viewers here that I am lieing about what I say.

I am fully aware that you are unable to back your words with truth, or evidence because you know as well as I, that your allegations are libel, false, and you are trying to deceive trusting viewers by pretending you know what you are talking about. Stupid is, as Stupid does.

Theseus, I challenge you show you have credibility, and back up your venomous allegations with substance, so viewers can clearly see the truthfulness of your comments. Otherwise, you are just another egotistical skeptic mental case seeking attention for your self at some one else's expense. Dell

[Theseus]

your allegations are libel.... Dell

Guess you need to brush up some on legalities; among other things.

...adverse public statements about legal citizens presented as fact must be proven false to be defamatory or slanderous/libel.

In order for you to prove my statement false you will have to:


Show proof of the existence of something you call Signal Lines.
Show said Signal Lines being measured with electronic measuring devices (does not include L-rods or dowsing tools).
Demonstrate both 1. and 2. above to a panel of qualified dis-interested third-parties who can judge if you achieved both constraints 1. and 2. fairly and to their satisfaction.

Good luck.... :razz:

[Seden]

Kev,

Map Dowsing could be along the lines of a ouija board where in the field using a dowsing rod for locating water is strictly a matter of detecting the electrostatic voltage generated by running water. That aspect has been documented and can be easily demonstrated by laying water hose in a straight line and turning the water on and walking with a metallic dowsing rod across it. In Junior High science class they would demonstrate a simple electroscope by turning on the water facet and placing the gold leafs in between the flow of water and the leafs react to the flow of water's electrostatic energy. Beyond that example I can not speak for dowsing. Lot's of theories that have been beaten to death on this and other forums ad nausium.

[Dell Winders]

Guess you need to brush up some on legalities; among other things.

...adverse public statements about legal citizens presented as fact must be proven false to be defamatory or slanderous/libel.

In order for you to prove my statement false you will have to:
Show proof of the existence of something you call Signal Lines.
Show said Signal Lines being measured with electronic measuring devices (does not include L-rods or dowsing tools).
Demonstrate both 1. and 2. above to a panel of qualified dis-interested third-parties who can judge if you achieved both constraints 1. and 2. fairly and to their satisfaction.
Good luck....

And what does this wiggle dance have to do with proof of your truthfullness, and credibility. So, again I challenge you to demonstrate your credibility and truthfulness by showing the viewers tangible proof of your venom mouthed allegations that I am lieing about my use of totally electronic metering of Remote Sensing Frequency Discrimination (MFD) signals for a period of 8 years.

Come on Theseus, here is your chance, and perfect opportunity to prove your truthfullness and credibility to those here that trust and support you, and to all the viewers. Surely, a person of your credentials wouldn't propagate lies about me and try to deceive the folks here, would you?

Any body here think that Theseus, is credible and are willing to support his word without his showing any tangible evidence whatsoever to prove his allegation?

Stupid is, as Stupid does! Dell

[J_Player]

Hi Dell,
I never saw any proof by anybody about signal lines existing, only a lot of claims. Nor did I ever see anyone prove a location for those alleged "signal lines" location with any standard electronic instruments or dowsing instruments or other instruments. And I never saw any proof of any equipment working that you have listed for sale on your web page.

But for the question of electronics inside your instruments, I am pretty well convinced you have a good stable frequency generator inside your X-scan. From what I read in the forum, it is a modern and well designed circuit. I guess that doesn't say anything to prove signal lines exist or not, but the frequency generator is not a fake generator. It's good quality in my opinion.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

Map Dowsing could be along the lines of a ouija board where in the field using a dowsing rod for locating water is strictly a matter of detecting the electrostatic voltage generated by running water. That aspect has been documented and can be easily demonstrated by laying water hose in a straight line and turning the water on and walking with a metallic dowsing rod across it. In Junior High science class they would demonstrate a simple electroscope by turning on the water facet and placing the gold leafs in between the flow of water and the leafs react to the flow of water's electrostatic energy. Beyond that example I can not speak for dowsing. Lot's of theories that have been beaten to death on this and other forums ad nausium.

Seden, it's refreshing to see that you are one of the few people here who doesn't argue against the simple application of L-Rods to elementary physics.

As a second example, an electrical cord with electricity running through it to a light bulb, or appliance will also generate a detectable "field', that can be metered with hand held L-Rods.

Stupidity, and ignorance, prevails among those here that disregard these two examples as being strictly a sub conscious, ideomotor controlled muscle movement of the L-rods. I suspect there will be denial, and argument that it is impossible for physics to be involved in a hand held L-Rod's reaction to a target "Field".

Thanks for speaking honestly from your own experience. Dell

[WM6]

Stupidity, and ignorance, prevails among those here that disregard these two examples as being strictly a sub conscious, ideomotor controlled muscle movement of the L-rods. I suspect there will be denial, and argument that it is impossible for physics to be involved in a hand held L-Rod's reaction to a target "Field".



Why all the so-called "inventors" believe that the science began with them, although answers regarding their "inventions" were given by the real science long before they were born?

They prefer the other accused of ignorance and stupidity, but do not want to learn and read, for example this book from way back in 1952 (first published):

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/c7/6c/5ee57220eca0550445839010.L._SL500_AA240_.jpg
Illusions and delusions of the supernatural and the occult (The psychology of the occult) (Author) D. H. Rawcliffe (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?%5Fencoding=UTF8&sort=relevancerank&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=D.%20H.%20Rawcliffe)

from Table of contents:

[Qiaozhi]

There is also this one ->

http://www.amazon.com/Skeptics-Dictionary-Collection-Deceptions-Dangerous/dp/0471272426/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253177164&sr=1-1

[Theseus]

Bum... diddty... do... da.... doing the Dell Winders Two-Step.

Dance and dance, but when you get all done dancing and running your mouth off; you still have to:

In order for you to prove my statement false you will have to:


Show proof of the existence of something you call Signal Lines.
Show said Signal Lines being measured with electronic measuring devices (does not include L-rods or dowsing tools).
Demonstrate both 1. and 2. above to a panel of qualified dis-interested third-parties who can judge if you achieved both constraints 1. and 2. fairly and to their satisfaction.

[Dell Winders]

You've been asked thousands of times over many decades to demonstrate electronic metering of your imaginary signal lines. To this date, you've not come forth with even a single spec of evidence, or supporting documentation.

Theseus, have you no honesty or integrity? You called my use of fully electronic metering MFD (no Rods) a "Bald faced Lie", inferring that I am a Liar, and now you dance around that claim. Prove to your supporters, and Geotech viewers that your claim about me is true. Show that you have credibility.

I contend that you are a chronic Liar, posting under a fictitious name with No credibility whatsoever. Your allegation is Bogus, the product of a demented, delusional, radical Skeptic mindset.

You continue to dance around and evade the responsibility of proving your serious allegations against me because there is nothing else you can do but apologize for your chronic lieing. I am aware that your ego would never allow you to admit to, or apologize to me for your wrong doings. But, if you can't show proof of your asinine allegation, the opening for a sincere apology is there.

Theseus, To establish your own credibility, can you be more specific? Who is it that has asked me thousands of times over decades? Apparently, it's not you. The name Theseus, is relativity new to this forum, and represented here as an apparently fictitious name with no credibility what so ever.

The only other complainant I am aware of is a certifiable Nut case Whacko, named Sam Scafferi, who has been kicked off of every Treasure forum he ever posted his real name on.

Again, show your proof that totally electronically metered Remote Sensing Frequency Discrimination (MFD), that I used for 8 years, does not exist, and that I am lieing about it. Please Go ahead, show any such factual proof to the viewers here that I am lieing about what I say.

I am fully aware that you are unable to back your words with truth, or evidence because you know as well as I, that your allegations are false, and you are trying to deceive trusting viewers by pretending you know what you are talking about. Stupid is, as Stupid does.

Theseus, I challenge you show you have credibility, and back up your venomous allegations with substance, so viewers can clearly see the truthfulness of your comments. Otherwise, you are just another egotistical skeptic mental case seeking attention for your self at some one else's expense. Dell

To the rest of you, I tell the truth. The original Remote sensing, Frequency Discrimination instruments were fully electronic, with electronic metering. I field tested, and used a variety of these privately built inventions over a period of 8 years, on land, over water, and from the air. And of course, this is provable in a court of law, or I wouldn't have stated this in the past, or restate it now.

You are free to accept my word on this, or you can demand that Theseus, and his supporters (if any) demonstrate his own honesty and credibility by showing proof of his allegation that the truthful statement of my using fully electronic, electronically metered, remote sensing, locating from a distance instruments, is as Theseus, termed, "A BOLD-FACED LIE"

Folks, Do your own research to learn the truth, or go ahead and vote your conscience of whose word you accept on this matter, THESEUS, or DELL ? Thanks! Dell

[WM6]

And of course, this is provable in a court of law, or I wouldn't have stated this in the past, or restate it now.



Dell, what is your fully claim regarding your devices that can be provable by court of law?

[Max]

Dell, what is your fully claim regarding your devices that can be provable by court of law?


Does matter ?

Nobody will sue him... what hope to e.g. fine him ? :lol:

I think many LRL magicians and charlatans declare they're broke cause of that....

btw... they have the power of discover gold using long range locators and / or simple dowsing rods BUT DECLARE THEY ARE BROKE, PEOPLE! :lol:

Don't make you laugh ?

Maybe they recover gold for others...

Or maybe they get all that gold and give to no-profit organizations to buy medicines and food for african childrens ...

Or maybe they simply forgot where they put the tons of gold they recovered...

Or just make gifts to people passing the street near their home... or whatever...

Or maybe they lost count of gold they found and cause of all calculations they made burnt all neurons and now need to pay for medical expenses...

Hmmm...

Strange these LRL broke guys...

I will spend whole fortune in Las Vegas with chicks and champagne ...instead! :D

Kind regards,
Max

[Theseus]

For a big guy, up in years, you are still pretty light on your feet. When you get done with all your dancein' around.... you can prove yourself to the forum by posting what you claim is possible:


Show proof of the existence of something you call Signal Lines.
Show said Signal Lines being measured with electronic measuring devices (does not include L-rods or dowsing tools).
Demonstrate both 1. and 2. above to a panel of qualified dis-interested third-parties who can judge if you achieved both constraints 1. and 2. fairly and to their satisfaction.

If you choose not to do that than I guess you can dance (and name call) all you want, but you're still nothing but a snake oil salesman, irritated because you been exposed at your favorite Wallet-mining game. :razz:

BTW, several members here go by a Username, that is probably not their real name. If that's a crime maybe you should ask Carl or Qiaozhi to rewrite the rules of the forum so they would be more to your liking. No one is forcing you to post here. If you don't like the place, why hang around? :rolleyes:

[Dell Winders]

Theseus, you are caught in your own web of lies about me. Quit trying to evade, and worm your way out. If what you say about me is true, then why is it a problem for to show the folks here that you are truthful, and that your word is trustworthy, and credible?

Go ahead, PLEASE show the viewers your proof that I am lieing about my field use, and testing of fully electronic, electronic metering (no Rods) Remote sensing detection from a distance, over a period of eight(8) years.

Your tangible proof that I am lieing about this, as you claim, will invalidate anything I may ever say regarding my products. Isn't the Skeptic agenda to discredit me, and put me out of business? Now is your chance. Prove your allegation that I am lieing, and you will have succeeded, where 16 years of Skeptic publications and attacks have failed. Go for it Theseus. Prove to the folks here that you are not the mentally challenged chronic liar that I purport you to be.

Carl, supports your efforts, he's not going to kick you off this forum. There is no law against lieing, so you know you are safe to continue your demented lies.

So far, you haven't made any effort to show proof of your allegations against me. You have not established any credibility for yourself, so it's fair for folks to assume you are untruthful, and the chronic Liar that I described? Dell


You've been asked thousands of times over many decades to demonstrate electronic metering of your imaginary signal lines. To this date, you've not come forth with even a single spec of evidence, or supporting documentation.

Theseus, have you no honesty or integrity? You called my use of fully electronic metering MFD (no Rods) a "Bald faced Lie", inferring that I am a Liar, and now you dance around that claim. Prove to your supporters, and Geotech viewers that your claim about me is true. Show that you have credibility.

I contend that you are a chronic Liar, posting under a fictitious name with No credibility whatsoever. Your allegation is Bogus, the product of a demented, delusional, radical Skeptic mindset.

You continue to dance around and evade the responsibility of proving your serious allegations against me because there is nothing else you can do but apologize for your chronic lieing. I am aware that your ego would never allow you to admit to, or apologize to me for your wrong doings. But, if you can't show proof of your asinine allegation, the opening for a sincere apology is there.

Theseus, To establish your own credibility, can you be more specific? Who is it that has asked me thousands of times over decades? Apparently, it's not you. The name Theseus, is relativity new to this forum, and represented here as an apparently fictitious name with no credibility what so ever.

The only other complainant I am aware of is a certifiable Nut case Whacko, named Sam Scafferi, who has been kicked off of every Treasure forum he ever posted his real name on.

Again, show your proof that totally electronically metered Remote Sensing Frequency Discrimination (MFD), that I used for 8 years, does not exist, and that I am lieing about it. Please Go ahead, show any such factual proof to the viewers here that I am lieing about what I say.

I am fully aware that you are unable to back your words with truth, or evidence because you know as well as I, that your allegations are false, and you are trying to deceive trusting viewers by pretending you know what you are talking about. Stupid is, as Stupid does.

Theseus, I challenge you show you have credibility, and back up your venomous allegations with substance, so viewers can clearly see the truthfulness of your comments. Otherwise, you are just another egotistical skeptic mental case seeking attention for your self at some one else's expense. Dell

To the rest of you, I tell the truth. The original Remote sensing, Frequency Discrimination instruments were fully electronic, with electronic metering. I field tested, and used a variety of these privately built inventions over a period of 8 years, on land, over water, and from the air. And of course, this is provable in a court of law, or I wouldn't have stated this in the past, or restate it now.

You are free to accept my word on this, or you can demand that Theseus, and his supporters (if any) demonstrate his own honesty and credibility by showing proof of his allegation that the truthful statement of my using fully electronic, electronically metered, remote sensing, locating from a distance instruments, is as Theseus, termed, "A BOLD-FACED LIE"

Folks, Do your own research to learn the truth, or go ahead and vote your conscience of whose word you accept on this matter, THESEUS, or DELL as being the truth? Thanks! Dell

[Fred]

Go ahead, PLEASE show the viewers your proof that I am lieing about my field use, and testing of fully electronic, electronic metering (no Rods) Remote sensing detection from a distance, over a period of eight(8) years.

The question is detecting WHAT ?!!

It´s like on you adverts, you carefully ommit to say that the stuff you sell actuallly detects something usefull .

[J_Player]

The question is detecting WHAT ?!!

It´s like on you adverts, you carefully ommit to say that the stuff you sell actuallly detects something usefull .Yeah,
That's what I see too. I read stories of electronically finding signal lines that show there is a treasure. Then I read the treasure was confirmed by a dowser who says "there's treasure down there", or running a ground probing radar scan along "signal lines" until something buried is found.

Did the dowsing and GPR stuff prove the signal line located a treasure? Or did they serve to show a dowser agrees, and a GPR says there is something buried in the ground somewhere nearby?

Why not forget the dowsing and GPR stuff ....
Simply dig up the "treasure" at a spot marked by "signal lines" and see what you located to "really" confirm it?
If you can do that consistently maybe 7 times out of 10 tries, then I would open my eyes and say "Yup, them signal lines sure do show where the treasure is!".

Don't think we've seen that yet... eh?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

Yeah,
That's what I see too. I read stories of electronically finding signal lines that show there is a treasure. Then I read the treasure was confirmed by a dowser who says "there's treasure down there", or running a ground radar scan along a signal line that shows something is buried somewhere in the general vicinity.

Why not forget the dowsing and GPR stuff.... simply dig up the "treasure" at the spot marked by "signal lines" and see what you located to "really" confirm it?
If you can do that consistently maybe 7 times out of 10 tries, then I would open my eyes and say "Yup, them signal lines sure do show where the treasure is!".

Don't think we've seen that yet... eh?

Best wishes,
J_P

JP, I fail to see where any of your examples relate to me. Is this a diversion, or cover up to keep from answering the question, and bypassing the post "Is Thesues, credible and trustworthy, or is he being untruthful in his claims that I am lieing about my experienced field use of fully electronic, electronically metered, distance locators. Which of us do you think is lieing? Dell

The question is detecting WHAT ?!!

It´s like on you adverts, you carefully ommit to say that the stuff you sell actuallly detects something usefull

FRED, My products are advertised as an "AIDE" to Locating and Discrimination to a variety of Chemical elements, and Not as a perfect solution, or with the technological claims advertised by LRL manufacturers from the Electronics Industry, to justify high prices and rip off consumers.

My products are simple, home built, and mostly built on request. It is a matter of honesty and integrity.

I can honestly relate what my customers have told me they have found, only when I have their permission. This, of course only provides possibilities for the consumer, based on what has already been done, discovered, recovered, or happened with others in the past, with the aid of my products. Granted, it doesn't make for very good advertising copy.

You appear disappointed that I won't make false or exaggerated claims about my products?

I cannot be honest and claim what a Customer will find, or will not find with the aid of my products. I can, and do explain the limitations of my products, along with instructions, based on my own field experience, of how to get the best use from them.

Now, back to the issue of Theseus, truthfullness and credibility? Dell

[WM6]

To the rest of you, I tell the truth. The original Remote sensing, Frequency Discrimination instruments were fully electronic, with electronic metering.

Dell

Dell, are this your argument-ed claims?

Sorry but this mean nothing.

My UNI-T UT70A Portable Intelligent Digital Multimeter "were fully electronic, with electronic metering" and discriminate frequency to 10MHz too, all certified, but still nothing of remote sensing although it is intelligent.

But your box is not even intelligent and you claim that it is Remote sensing?

look:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/UNI-T-UT70A-Portable-Intelligent-Digital-Multimeter_W0QQitemZ290347801807QQcmdZViewItemQQpt ZAU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment?hash=item439a13d ccf&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262


My products are advertised as an "AIDE" to Locating and Discrimination to a variety of Chemical elements, and Not as a perfect solution,


This include gold too and exclude all complains after Remote sensing detect nothing, cause it is "Not perfect solution" therefore no guarantee.

[Kev]

Hi Kev,
I really like your technical posts in other forums. You are one of the best. And now you got me interested in this explanation of dowsing. It appears there are two mechanisms at work here: 1. Opening a channel of mind submission, and 2. inciting visions of wealth and power. I can see how the idea of dowsing to find treasure can be motivated by finding wealth, and it is done in a manner where the mind may be manipulated to become submissive to unknown influences.


G'day JP,
I too have enjoyed reading your posts over the years, and had a good number of laughs over your LRL ones. :lol::D:lol:
I'm unfamiliar with the device pictured, but I see a box with a dial on it, and some other bits, it looks interesting and raises the prospect of some specialised electronic device within, but wait…I see the paint roller handle…… all expectation gone pooooff :lol:

I know now that the box will only contain nonsensical blah, such as a 555 humming away in vane, or the like. All intricately devised to make some poor sucker think, this device actually does something more than make an annoying noise...........but here's the strange part, if some guy believes enough and has the aptitude of mind, those pieces of junk may actually be used to lead him to find something worthwhile.

I see what you’re saying JP, where's the line between LRL/divining and legitimate metal detecting, well I believe they can be a little smudged, but essentially for most everyday people the line exists where the signal processing happens. A metal detector processes the signals and gives you an indication that you then interpret in your brain as simply metal or not, dig or not. However the LRL/divining relies on the electro-chemical device between your ears to do the signal processing, this is where it gets tricky. Not everyone has the easily accessable aptitude to be able to do this, not like a metal detector where everyone with a smidgen of intelligence can operate it. This aptitude is not necessarily a good thing, it is possible that a person of this type can use a metal detector just the same as an LRL if they are in the right state of consciousness and open to channels, which I'm not going to go into here.

I know the point when I have descended into lower levels of consciousness, and it has been at times such as this, that I have been walking along a beach with my metal detector and veered straight off up to a gold and diamond ring, and it's the only target for many yards around. This has happened on a few occasions, but it scares me very much... do do do...do do do...do do…………..seriously I avoid that like I now do LSD and magic mushrooms. :razz:

Suffice it to say, Yahuweh through the law given to Moses stipulated that anyone found in the camp of Israel who employed divination, uncanny power, consulting foretellers of events, etc., were to be cut off in death immediately. The reason being they had adulterated their spiritual integrity, by committing spiritual fornication, and would thereby become a source of contamination to others. God was trying to protect his people from some pretty serious unwholesome influences, and it is no different today, hence I class the operational power of these devices along with divination and uncanny power.

Dell will pipe up and say uncanny power is just undiscovered technology, (signal lines :lol:) and it is true that we are only scratching the surface in our understanding of many fields of science, one such being magnetism. However, this uncanny power I refering too, relies upon manipulated subconscious brain functions of the operator, especially with devices such as the paint roller handle pointer type. For the majority of people of sound mind these devices are not going to work. A number of the other devices that do have some internal indication much like a metal detector (albeit, response to random natural stimuli, Minero comes to mind) may not even work for diviners because the mind connection is broken. Additionally for the average Joe, they will not work because they are based on pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo, expressly designed to take advantage of peoples need and greed, and to ultimately fleece them of their money, (Dell) but I don’t need to convince you of this JP, you have sense enough to see that yourself. Beware the one trying to pull the wool over your eyes, it is the wolf!

It appears some people are born with a divining aptitude, much like some people take to calculus or music like a duck to water. Perhaps the filters between lower levels of sub-conscious and conscious mind are broken or tuned a certain way, and for some this equates to madness, but whatever the reason we are so much more than our conscious mind thinks we are.
Be careful out there.
Cheers
Kev.

Sorry fro the long post...looks like one of Dell's rants :lol:

[Theseus]

Additionally for the average Joe, they will not work because they are based on pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo, expressly designed to take advantage of peoples need and greed, and to ultimately fleece them of their money, (Dell)Well, Dell, it appears I'm not the only one that can see through your little schemes and marketing ploys. (thanks, Kev)

Are you getting the sympathy and responses you'd expected? :razz:

[J_Player]

JP, I fail to see where any of your examples relate to me. Is this a diversion, or cover up to keep from answering the question, and bypassing the post "Is Thesues, credible and trustworthy, or is he being untruthful in his claims that I am lieing about my experienced field use of fully electronic, electronically metered, distance locators. Which of us do you think is lieing? DellHi Dell,
I didn't say any of my examples relate to you. I wasn't even replying to you.... I was replying to Fred (scroll up and see).
I directed my reply to Fred's question about signals detected: "The question is detecting WHAT ?!!"
If you look at the topic of this thread, you will see this is what we are talking about, not your rants about Theseus.
Scroll up to the first post... read the article from the Department of Justice, and you will see my post is a response to Fred in relation to that article.
My post is not a diversion, and It has nothing to do with you unless you are one of the people who sells equipment described by the Department of Justice.

But I will admit, I did create a diversion earlier on, when I posted my troubles trying to locate my lost can of chili beans :rolleyes:
BTW, does that little plastic thingy really work for locating lost chili beans?

Best wishes,
J_P

file:///tmp/moz-screenshot.jpghttp://www.geotech1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9718&stc=1&d=1252482662

[Dell Winders]

This is what you replied to, posted by Fred. I replied to you, and Fred in the same post. :shrug: Dell

[QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by Dell Winders
Go ahead, PLEASE show the viewers your proof that I am lieing about my field use, and testing of fully electronic, electronic metering (no Rods) Remote sensing detection from a distance, over a period of eight( years.

The question is detecting WHAT ?!!

It´s like on you adverts, you carefully ommit to say that the stuff you sell actuallly detects something usefull ./QUOTE]

[J_Player]

This is what you replied to, posted by Fred. I replied to you, and Fred in the same post. Dell


Originally Posted by Dell Winders
Go ahead, PLEASE show the viewers your proof that I am lieing about my field use, and testing of fully electronic, electronic metering (no Rods) Remote sensing detection from a distance, over a period of eight( years.

Originally posted by Fred
The question is detecting WHAT ?!!

It´s like on you adverts, you carefully ommit to say that the stuff you sell actuallly detects something usefull Ummmm... Dell,
Did you read my post? I didn't claim you are lying. Fred did not claim you are lying either. He is asking what you detected.
Can you show me where either Fred or I called you a liar?

What we asked about is "What" your stuff is detecting...
Here is my quote again:
That's what I see too. I read stories of electronically finding signal lines that show there is a treasure. Then I read the treasure was confirmed by a dowser who says "there's treasure down there", or running a ground probing radar scan along "signal lines" until something buried is found.

Did the dowsing and GPR stuff prove the signal line located a treasure? Or did they serve to show a dowser agrees, and a GPR says there is something buried in the ground somewhere nearby?

Why not forget the dowsing and GPR stuff ....
Simply dig up the "treasure" at a spot marked by "signal lines" and see what you located to "really" confirm it?
If you can do that consistently maybe 7 times out of 10 tries, then I would open my eyes and say "Yup, them signal lines sure do show where the treasure is!".

Don't think we've seen that yet... eh?Can you see a place where I call anyone a liar? or where I even mention you?
Can you show me the place where Fred calls you a liar?
Take another look....
"Why not forget the dowsing and GPR stuff ....
Simply dig up the "treasure" at a spot marked by "signal lines" and see what you located to "really" confirm it?"
Doesn't that kinda like asking a question?

Ok Dell.... So where's the the place that Fred or I called you a liar? :shrug:
Weren't those really your own words from your rant against Theseus?
It looks to me like Fred and I just were asking what you detected.


BTW. Does that plastic thingy really work to find chili beans?

Best Wishes,
J_P .

[Dell Winders]

I was very explicit in stating who is lieing inmy post directed to Theseus. I never so much as implied that you, or Fred, were lieing

Fred, included the entire quote in his post, but, Fred's post made no reference to that part of my comment either. He was apparently referring to the latter part of my comment, Right?

Otherwise there was no reason for Fred to even include my quote, if that was not what he was addressing in his reply. Right?

Was Fred addressing you, JP when he posted, It´s like on you adverts, you carefully ommit to say that the stuff you sell actuallly detects something usefull

And I replied accordingly to both yours, and Fred's posts with never a suggestion that either of you have lied. I don't know why, or where you are coming up with this crap that I said you lied?

testing of fully electronic, electronic metering (no Rods) Remote sensing detection from a distance, over a period of eight( years.

Originally posted by Fred
The question is detecting WHAT ?!!

It´s like on you adverts, you carefully ommit to say that the stuff you sell actuallly detects something usefull

"STUPID IS, AS STUPID DOES"!

[J_Player]

And I replied accordingly to both yours, and Fred's posts with never a suggestion that either of you have lied. I don't know why, or where you are coming up with this crap that I said you lied?One final time "That's not what we said".
We were talking about what is being detected. We are NOT talking about who is a liar.
Those are your words that you addressed to me and from your rant against Theseus.

You want to know who is calling people liars? I don't claim you are saying Fred or me are liars.
Shall I look to see who you are calling a liar? I see you calling Theseus a liar. It is simple to read.
Isn't this your quote when you answered me by asking who is a liar?
Which of us do you think is lieing? Dell
Isn't this your quote from a rant against Theseus? Theseus, you are caught in your own web of lies about me.
Aren't you the person who is sending accusations of lying out against Theseus?
I don't claim you are calling him a liar, but if you're asking, it looks like you are to me.

Can you tell me how your rants against Theseus have anything to do with our question of what is being detected with an alleged signal line?


PS. About them chili beans... does that plastic thingy really work to find them?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Suffice it to say, Yahuweh through the law given to Moses stipulated that anyone found in the camp of Israel who employed divination, uncanny power, consulting foretellers of events, etc., were to be cut off in death immediately.
Perhaps I should include this in the forum rules. :ninja:

[Fred]

Perhaps I should include this in the forum rules. :ninja:

The forum would die immediately :lol:

[Theseus]

Can you tell me how your rants against Theseus have anything to do with our question of what is being detected with an alleged signal line?

Best wishes,
J_P

When he is attacking me, and attempting to change the direction of the thread, he avoids all of our questions concerning Signal Lines; what they are, how they are produced by inanimate objects, and how they were electronically metered.

So, I guess it's a smoke screen or a diversion to avoid answering; "what is being detected with alleged signal lines?"