DELL SYSTEMS - OMNITRON

[Dell Winders]

I have had several private reports of major finds with the aid of my products from customers in several countries. These reports are given to me in confidentiality so I am not at liberty to disclose them publicly, however some comments have been made publicly so I'll take the time to start mention a few on this thread.

THIS WAS POSTED ON TREASURE NET IN 2002, ACCOMPANIED WITH A DOZEN PHOTOS. THE TREASURE WAS REPORTED TO BE WORTH AS MUCH AS $30,000,000, or more DELL :)


TreasureNet Long Range Locator Forum - Dell Winders & Bill Mo ... http://treasurenet.com/forumll<>q\tor/messagesl13146.shtml
S.e·..e I.t.*.'.
Index 1lq8e$ Po« Rqfy FAQ Advertise
Dell Winders & Bill Morgan
Posted by Prospector
April 18, 2002 at 20:04:31
http://ww.w.angelfire.com/utITIPET/newmex.htm

Well.·I might as well bring this to this forum-so you can kick it
around,
I would have never believed it if I had not seen it with my own two
eyes" never"" but the gold bars that were found in these pics were found",
and I have to say this under my breath ... yes with a Ohmnitron
somethin or another",Dells unit. ..
and yes the Bill Morgan unit that Bill built for me varified the find,,,
pointed to the same place ....
Believe it or not"" I still don't.. ..but it is true ....
ya just never know .....LOL
.
lof3 4/19/02 10:18 PM

[Tim Williams]

Dell did you keep a picture of the find? The link does not work.

Tim

[Dell Winders]

No, I didn't think it would be right for me to show photos of their Treasure, so I never downloaded any. There was still one photo left on the website about two months ago. I'm surprised they made the find public. That is unusual, but I suspect they were interested in making a Documentary. Dell

[Dell Winders]

Successful Treasure Salvors Tracy Bowen, and Bert Webber, used MFD to aid in their search for Treasure. Dell :)

http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/63f251bd47e391f205058d27e75f7ddb092960e.jpg

[Clondike Clad]

Successful Treasure Salvors Tracy Bowen, and Bert Webber, used MFD to aid in their search for Treasure. Dell :)

http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/63f251bd47e391f205058d27e75f7ddb092960e.jpg
Dell anyone can put up anything.the question is it REAL OR A SCAM

[Tim Williams]

I would have liked to see that.

[Dell Winders]

Dell anyone can put up anything.the question is it REAL OR A SCAM

It's obvious that I posted this information from my own knowledge. I talked to Tracy Bowen, last week as per the date at the bottom of his comment.

Whether folks here choose to believe, or dis-believe, it doesn't matter one bit to me. You all have the option of researching the facts for your selves, or continue to act the ignorant fools about the Treasure recoveries, and discoveries that have been made with the aid of Frequency Discrimination, and a simple pair of hand held antenna Rods. Dell

[Theseus]

It's obvious that I posted this information from my own knowledge. I talked to Tracy Bowen, last week as per the date at the bottom of his comment.

Whether folks here choose to believe, or dis-believe, it doesn't matter one bit to me. You all have the option of researching the facts for your selves, or continue to act the ignorant fools about the Treasure recoveries, and discoveries that have been made with the aid of Frequency Discrimination, and a simple pair of hand held antenna Rods. Dell

Name calling those you don't agree with? Not a very "polite" comment, Dell.

Please see; http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=84117&postcount=53

FACT: Others have researched the facts about LRL/MFD and found the concept bogus.

REASON FOR COMMENT: If molecular frequency discrimination was a real technology, there would be no reason at all to sense the radiations with error-prone L-rods.

[Tim Williams]

On the other hand I know first hand people that have recovered different treasures using dowsing including myself.

Tim

[Dell Winders]

DELL SYSTEMS - OMNITRON used at Qumran, to try to find more Copper Scrolls. No additional copper scrolls were found, but many old Brass Enfield Rifle casings were found on the Copper Frequency

Dr. Vendyl Jones, was the Biblical Archaeologist, sponsored by Hebrew University.

http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/28b2585dedeca1bd00758139c86644fb4b1c9e1.jpg

[Theseus]

DELL SYSTEMS - OMNITRON used at Qumran, to try to find more Copper Scrolls. No additional copper scrolls were found, but many old Brass Enfield Rifle casings were found on the Copper Frequency

Clearly, the intended inference here is that the rifle casings would not have been found were it not for the use of the LRL/MFD. That inference is not justified since no steps were taken to determine if casings would have been found anyway; without the aid of an LRL/MFD.

Often we are expected to believe glowing anecdotal accounts of the use of LRL/MFD in areas and environments known to produce precious metals and/or artifacts. Generally, it is a given that if you look in a haystack for hay, you will find it everytime; and it matters little whether you use plain old common sense and logic, or the most expensive and up-to-date instrumentation. ;)

[Dell Winders]

DELL SYSTEMS - OMNITRON was used to quickly scan for possible Gold caches on top of Masada. No Gold caches were detected. Dell :frown:

http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/102255ed32e181530395afaa692c53c7889d6bb.jpg

[joecoin]

Whether folks here choose to believe, or dis-believe, it doesn't matter one bit to me. . . Dell

Then why do you bother posting here? :???:

[aft_72005]

DELL SYSTEMS - OMNITRON was used to quickly scan for possible Gold caches on top of Masada. No Gold caches were detected. Dell :frown:

http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/102255ed32e181530395afaa692c53c7889d6bb.jpg


Hi Dell Winders :)
At the first happy New Year, second, thanking for pictures, please upload
More of it. I meet the person, he using omnitron , and said me found wealth object
With it. He didn’t say about valuable historical metals .maybe it was secret.
Also He was very satisfied from omnitron system.
Best regards.

[Dell Winders]

Aft_72005, THANK YOU! Kind words are always appreciated.

Folks here are anxious to learn the benefits of using Frequency Discrimination. They have been asking me, What has been found, for years. Dell :)

[aft_72005]

Folks here are anxious to learn the benefits of using Frequency Discrimination

Hi Dell Winders
Because the peoples that using LRL ,usually didn’t speak about what’s found .
Please more inform here.
I like build by myself. In the matter I built Carl MFD ,lords with generators,
And Trying with some old silver coins .
Very strange, sometimes I feel lords show me coins pales and sometimes
Didn’t have any movement.
I trying rebuild my system, generator plus lords and reexamine it .
Best regards.

[Clondike Clad]

DELL SYSTEMS - OMNITRON was used to quickly scan for possible Gold caches on top of Masada. No Gold caches were detected. Dell :frown:

http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/102255ed32e181530395afaa692c53c7889d6bb.jpg
Ok Dell if your system is so good GO FOR CARL'S 25K OR THE MILLION.
WHAT WE NEED IS REAL FACTS NOT UPLOADS..

[Clondike Clad]

It's obvious that I posted this information from my own knowledge. I talked to Tracy Bowen, last week as per the date at the bottom of his comment.

Whether folks here choose to believe, or dis-believe, it doesn't matter one bit to me. You all have the option of researching the facts for your selves, or continue to act the ignorant fools about the Treasure recoveries, and discoveries that have been made with the aid of Frequency Discrimination, and a simple pair of hand held antenna Rods. Dell SO NOW IT BACK TO NAME CALLING.

[Theseus]

SO NOW IT BACK TO NAME CALLING.

Would you expect anything else. With no real facts, his repertoire of retorts is really quite limited.

[Dell Winders]

FACT:
DELL SYSTEMS - OMNITRON MFD was first introduced as Molecular Frequency technology by Scientist appearing on ABC television news program 20/20, in 1986, and was referred to as a Molecular Frequency Generator. Dell :)

[Dell Winders]

Klondike Clad, I don't see anywhere that I called you a name? What is your problem? Dell

[Carl-NC]

OMNITRON MFD was first introduced as Molecular Frequency technology by Scientist appearing on ABC television news program 20/20, in 1986, and was referred to as a Molecular Frequency Generator.

What, exactly, does this mean?

[Dell Winders]

:???: HUH? It means exactly as I said. Dell

[Carl-NC]

What I mean is, are you suggesting that MFD is a validated concept because a scientist mentioned it on TV? Or are you just saying that's where the name came from?

Is it possible the scientist was mistaken? Pons & Fleischmann come to mind.

Was the name of this scientist John Baumgardner?

[Dell Winders]

No, I'm not suggesting anything. I'm just commenting about what was said on 20/20, a respected television news program.

Is fact about the users of my products something that is not allowed on this forum? Dell :???:

[Carl-NC]

No, I'm curious, so I'm asking.

Was it John Baumgardner?

[Leto]

DELL SYSTEMS - OMNITRON used at Qumran, to try to find more Copper Scrolls. No additional copper scrolls were found, but many old Brass Enfield Rifle casings were found on the Copper Frequency

Dr. Vendyl Jones, was the Biblical Archaeologist, sponsored by Hebrew University.

http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/28b2585dedeca1bd00758139c86644fb4b1c9e1.jpg

I could not resist about this one..
These are also facts Dell:
Since 1972, Vendyl has conducted eight excavations at Qumran, involving over 300 volunteers and funded by individual supporters of VJRI. There has been no support nor funding from the government, foundations, or grants. Jones's methods, claims and qualifications have been disputed by academics such as Zoe Zias and Robert Elliot Friedman, and Jones has been denied digging permits by the Israeli authorities.
A VJRI excavation team claimed to have found the Shemen Afarshimon, the Holy Anointing Oil, from the Holy Temple, in April 1988. In the 1992 excavation, the VJRI team announced the discovery of a hidden silo in the bed rock that contained a reddish snuff-looking material that appeared to be organic in nature. When it was analyzed by the Weizmann Institute of Science and two departments at Bar-Ilan University, the tests allegedly indicated that the reddish material was a compound of eleven ingredients in the Holy Incense, although critics claim this was in fact just dirt. Over 900 pounds of the "spices" were removed that year. This Holy Incense, with the Anointing Oil, are two items listed in the Copper Scroll. They were supposedly found in the precise order that they occur written in the Torah.

Another credibility fact:
For years Vendyl Jones circulated the rumor that the Indiana Jones character was based on his life. According to the story, a certain Randolph Fillmore, who had been on one of Jones's digs, wrote the first draft for Raiders of the Lost Ark; Vendyl became "Endy", then "Indy". However, accounts of the making of the film flatly contradict this. Philip Kaufman and George Lucas came up with the idea of an archaeologist hunting for the Ark, while Indiana was the name of Lucas's Alaskan Malamute. The character was to be named Indiana Smith after Nevada Smith (Steve McQueen's character in the eponymous film), and this was changed to Indiana Jones by Steven Spielberg.
Randolph Fillmore, a science writer, does not feature at all in the background to the story and though he did work with Jones for two weeks in 1977, did not write the first draft of Raiders of the Lost Ark and has requested that Jones stop claiming that he did.

Dell do you trust this Jones guy and his anointing Oil?

[Dell Winders]

Dell do you trust this Jones guy and his anointing Oil?

I have never met him, I don't know him. Any opinion is irrelevant to my posts stating where I am aware of Dell systems - Omnitron, being used and what was reported to have been found. Dell :)

[Clondike Clad]

Klondike Clad, I don't see anywhere that I called you a name? What is your problem? Dell


continue to act the ignorant fools about the Treasure recoveries

[Theseus]

No, I'm curious, so I'm asking.

Was it John Baumgardner?

In 1985, John Baumgardner joined the controversial amateur archaeologist Ron Wyatt and salvage expert David Fasold to Durupınar, Turkey for an expedition recounted in Fasold's The Ark of Noah to locate the biblical ship's remains.

Here is one reporter's interview with David Fasold.

http://www.skeptictank.org/fasold.htm

Excerpt:

Q: So what did Fasold do to investigate?

A: The details are unclear.
He claims to have detected iron under the surface of the site in 1985. Helpers attached survey ribbons to stakes that he placed in the ground where iron was supposedly detected by what he calls "the frequency generator."
He claims that this device was "a new prototype, actually the fourth one in existence," obtained from someone named John Fales whom he met while diving off the coast of Florida. This is the only mention of Fales. (pp. 103-105)
Suspiciously vague? That's nothing compared to the bizarre description he gives of this mystery device in operation:
"With the frequency set on iron I gave the pulse some time to spread out through the structure. The response was strong. The object was so hot the frequency wave came up above the ground almost eighteen inches." (p. 115)
Later, he wrote that "the frequency generator [heats] up the iron in the Ark." (p. 317)


7> Q: What?


A: No need for explanation. Surely we can trust Mr. Fasold's knowledgeable use of an instrument that came from nowhere, and his objective connection of the dots to discover the "iron lines" revealing the structure of an underground boat.
No need to mention his fanatical desire to find the "Ark of Noah" nearly bankrupting him, according to his own report.
The obsession couldn't possibly have affected his completely unbiased credibility.

Judge for yourself, the credibility of, and the part played by the LRL/MFD device. ;)

[Carl-NC]

Dell, was the scientist on 20/20 John Baumgardner?

[Theseus]

Another interesting article, concerning Baumgardner's association with the so-called discovery of Noah's Ark.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/wyatt.html

Excerpt:

"IT IS ALLEGED THAT Metal detecting surveys using a 'molecular frequency generator/discriminator' mapped out these 'iron lines', which represent longitudinal and cross beams containing iron nails and /or brackets. (These 'iron lines' were marked out with bright yellow plastic tape for greater impact.)

A 'molecular frequency generator consists of a pair of brass welding rods. bent at 90-near one end, which are placed in sleeves for ease of movement while hand-held, connected by wires to a set of batteries which are carried in the operator's pocket. (This electrical source is supposed to make the device more sensitive!) A so-called frequency generator is placed on the ground within the area to be surveyed. The dials are set on this 'instrument' for it to emit the supposed inaudible frequency of whatever metal (gold, iron, etc.) one hopes to detect. As the operator walks along holding the brass rods out in front, one in each hand, the rods are supposed to cross or separate when the subsurface target is located. Such movement, however, will occur by simple physical principles even when there are no batteries connected. Just as a supermarket trolley (castor) wheel tends to trail behind the direction of motion, there is a tendency for the long arms of the rods to rotate so as to trail behind the direction of walking. The resultant crossing or separating may therefore easily be initiated by the conscious or unconscious expectations of the user.

Qualified scientists have been independently consulted about this gadget, which is generally advertised in treasure-hunting magazines, not scientific journals. They are unanimous that there are no scientific principles employed. Indeed, two of these scientists built and tested working models. The results of this technique can hardly be considered trustworthy, the brass welding rods being used in essence, as divining rods, similar to the use of a forked stick to search for water.* So the 'iron lines' on diagrams of the boat shape and the lines of plastic tape in photo graphs are only an interpretation based on 'results' from a pseudo-scientific 'instrument'. They have not been able to be reproduced or verified by any reputable scientific survey technique, including standard metal detection equipment. This includes the highly sophisticated types of magnetometer used by mining companies (see later). (* Even Baumgardner, to his later embarrassment, was initially taken in by the false claims attributed to this 'instrument'. Fasold still promotes its virtues and cries 'foul' when these 'home truths' are pointed out, yet if it were what he claims then every mining company and fortune seeker would own and operate one and be making hordes of money! No mining company uses anything like it.)"

[Steve in MS]

The boat was made of wood:D but the Omnitron might have been signaling on
b.s. left over from the animals:D:D:D:D but I bet it won't detect metals:D:D:D:D:razz::razz::razz::razz::lol::lol:.

[Dell Winders]

It's easy to see the mentality of proclaimed Skeptics on this forum to attempt to hijack and cover up posts about the world wide uses of DELL SYSTEMS - OMNITRON, with fact less personal opinions derived from speculation, imagination, and here say, to attack the character of my customers who challenge your mentality with their finds, and discoveries.

For years, on this and other forums, I have been demanded by the so called Skeptics, to show any thing that has ever been found with Omnitron. Rather than accept the fact that Treasure has been found and Discoveries have been made as a result, or with the aid of DELL SYSTEMS - OMNITRON.

Several books have been published, numerous articles, videos, and television documentaries have been made as a result of the use of my products. I am proud, and happy for my customers and their successes with my products.

No matter how much you try to destroy the credibility of my customers, the facts still remain. "People world wide have enjoyed time, and money saving benefits with the aid of using DELL SYSTEMS-OMNITRON in their searches.

Try as you may with your UN-SCIENTIFIC mocking, and here say reports, these facts will always remain true

The question is, Do you wish for me to continue posting comments I've received from my customers, and MFG users without hijacking, or interruption, or do you wish me to stop posting, so that you may continue to wallow in your ignorance, or self interests, to conceal the facts about the findings, and discoveries by customers of DELL SYSTEMS - OMNITRON. Dell :)

http://www.omnitron.net

[WesP]

I vote to "continue to wallow in your ignorance, or self interests, to conceal the facts about the findings, and discoveries by customers of DELL SYSTEMS - OMNITRON.":razz:

Where's the Beef?:frown:

[Fred]

Dell, was the scientist on 20/20 John Baumgardner?
Now i am curious too.

However, when i feel thirsty i like to drink COCA COLA , because it has been proven it doesn´t harm you , and COCA COLA is good for your health.
I perfectly know that COCA COLA doesn´t contain too much sugar.
Is is a fact . /

[Theseus]

The question is, Do you wish for me to continue posting comments I've received from my customers, and MFG users without hijacking, or interruption, or do you wish me to stop posting.... Dell


So far what you've posted has not been anything that could not be easily refuted because it comes from "highly questionable" and unsubstantiated sources. Consequently, your thread was not hijacked, rather responses were made to inject some semblance of truth and related factual matter.

To answer your question, why don't you not publish any more comments until you have actual double-blind test data that was monitored and agreed valid by several dis-interested third parties.

What you've published so far are really unsubstantiated anecdotal accounting's that equate to nothing more than free advertising for yourself and your bogus products.

Oh, and one final question you seem to keep stepping over:
Was it John Baumgardner in the 20/20 program?

[Esteban]

Testimonies

[Qiaozhi]

Testimonies
All from a reliable source ->
http://www.omnitron.net/del_cust.htm

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Carl-NC]

Dell, was the scientist on 20/20 John Baumgardner?

It's a simple question.

[joecoin]

I vote to "continue to wallow in your ignorance, or self interests, to conceal the facts about the findings, and discoveries by customers of DELL SYSTEMS - OMNITRON.":razz:

Where's the Beef?:frown:

I vote that Dell stop posting also.


The fact that he has sold x number of his products COULD be equated to the fact that thousands if not millions of decks of Tarot cards have also been sold.

[Fred]

I vote that Dell stop posting also.

From what i have seen before when someone make a precise question Dell automatically stops posting for a while.

PS : For you Joecoin :

[J_Player]

Hey, Dell is not posting facts. He is posting propaganda like you see on his web page.

Are any of these testimonials and so-called facts true, or did Dell make them up? It seems he cannot show us any proof in the way of a demonstration, just as he cannot show any of his treasure machines actually doing what they are depicted to do on his web pages.

Why can't Dell answer any direct question with a truthful, factual answer such as Yes or No? like: "Was it John Baumgardner"? for example.

Was it a secret reporter that Dell is referring to, just as he has secret witnesses to his machines doing something useful? Would any normal minded, prudent person believe all the amazing stories Dell tells with secret witnesses and reporters? Who is supposed to believe this stuff? Exceptionally stupid people?

Are we hearing Dell shovel out a lot of bogus propaganda mixed in with news events?

I vote Dell stops posting unfounded propaganda and starts posting facts that can be established as facts by any normal-minded person.

Best wishes
J_P

[Carl-NC]

There's a Good Reason Dell won't answer my question.

Dell has long touted a claim that his Omnitron was involved in identifying the site of Noah's Ark in Turkey. The claim was made by David Fasold (see the Wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Fasold)), and even to this day Dell has a letter by Fasold on his web site ("Read how Omnitron Systems played a part in this historical discovery") to promote the claim. This was the topic of the 20/20 TV show Dell mentions.

John Baumgardner is a (real) geophysicist who got involved in the Durupinar (Ark) site. He was initially duped by the claims of Fasold and others that the Omnitron MFD had successfully mapped out buried iron fittings at the site. But Baumgardner later conducted his own magnetometer and GPR surveys of the site, and determined that the results Fasold obtained with the MFD were totally wrong. Baumgardner realized the MFD concept was bogus. Years ago I personally contacted Baumgardner and confirmed this. He even sent me a copy of his report.

Here's the funny part. At one time, Dell included a quote from Baumgardner, without permission, in his "endorsements", see below. Since Baumgardner considered Dell's MFD to be bogus, he didn't take kindly to having his quote included, and made Dell remove it.

So Dell continues to claim that a mysterious "scientist" supports the MFD concept.

Funny Part #2. David Fasold, whose letter Dell still waves around at every chance, later completely renounced his support for the Durupiner site being Noah's Ark. He joined the scientific community's assessment that the site was just a geologic formation, and even co-authored a scientific paper debunking the Ark claims. If Fasold were still alive today, he probably wouldn't think much of Dell using his original errant claim to help sell bogus devices.

So Dell has never been very honest about his endorsements and quotes, and I really wouldn't trust anything he claims without independent validation.

- Carl

P.S. -- Dell, is that endorsement by "C.C., KY" the infamous Claude Cochran? That's like having Charles Ponzi endorse a financial investment plan!

[Steve in MS]

Dell, you need not to use the term "scientific" you make about your products:D:razz::lol::D:D:D.
Instead use the term science fiction for describing what they do:D:D:D:D.
The word science comes from the latin "to know"
"We know" nothing about the usefulness of your products because there is no data available for any level of competence concerning them.
Now compare that to any other devices on the market which have been proven effective within given perimeters.
Hope this isn't too difficult for you to understand and sorry, we won't take your word for it or the others who can't provide scientific data required for
evaluation.
Contrast your devices' usefulness compared to standard metal detectors which have been proven over and over again, year after year by thousands of users.
I would imagine Carl would be glad to setup a field for you or one of your device users to test and record the results, no:D:D:D:D:D?
You are getting free advertisement space here on Geotech, what more can you ask:D:D:lol::lol::razz::razz:?

[hung]

P.S. -- Dell, is that endorsement by "C.C., KY" the infamous Claude Cochran? That's like having Charles Ponzi endorse a financial investment plan!



Well, then I must say that what you and other skeptics here have to say about MFD is like revisiting Thomas Edison's statements that the only purpose of AC was to kill cats...:lol::lol:

Now seriously, this is now directed to the general reader and researcher who is interested to further evolve his/her studies, as this forum is not and will never be the right place for gathering info on this.

If you are interested in learning about Dowsing, visit the Dowsing section in the TNET forum or any Dowsing forum and go direct to the source talking to real dowsers, their vast experience and their achievements.
You also will have a good basis to understand how MFD works.

You will hint on why Carl's Geotech forum has no Dowsing section and also why dowsers don't bother to post here about the subject.
Of course Carl will say that his forum is scientifically oriented and does not include 'bogus' subjects, and blah, blah, blah...

Oh, well...:rolleyes:

[Morgan]

áñâ ðæâÃ*â äëâä æ :shocked:

If Dowsing devices are sold more honest prices,nobody complains...
But this prices practice in America are ridiculous,and of course people complains its snake oil !!!

[Morgan]

áñâ ðæâÃ*â äëâä æ :shocked:

If Dowsing devices are sold more honest prices,nobody complains...
But this prices practice in America are ridiculous,and of course people complains its snake oil !!!
áèîëîêÃ*öèÿ Ã*Ã¥ ðÃ*áîòÃ*åò òÃ*ê êÃ*ê ðåêëÃ*ìèðóþò ò Ã¥ öåÃ*û äîëæÃ*è áûòü Ã*Ã¥ òÃ*êèìè âûñîêèìè.;)

[Qiaozhi]

Well, then I must say that what you and other skeptics here have to say about MFD is like revisiting Thomas Edison's statements that the only purpose of AC was to kill cats...:lol::lol:
Thomas Edison's statement was made for commercial reasons, rather than scientific. He had a vested interest in promoting DC as the preferred solution. Although you could say that the same situation is true for Dell. i.e. there is a vested interest. :razz:

Now seriously, this is now directed to the general reader and researcher who is interested to further evolve his/her studies, as this forum is not and will never be the right place for gathering info on this.
You are incorrect in your assumption. The Geotech Remote Sensing Forum is the only place where the nonsense of dowsing, and associated bogus devices, is revealed in it's true glory.

If you are interested in learning about Dowsing, visit the Dowsing section in the TNET forum or any Dowsing forum and go direct to the source talking to real dowsers, their vast experience and their achievements.
You also will have a good basis to understand how MFD works.
We are completely aware of how dowsing and so-called MFD devices "work". It is a trick of the mind.

You will hint on why Carl's Geotech forum has no Dowsing section and also why dowsers don't bother to post here about the subject.
Of course Carl will say that his forum is scientifically oriented and does not include 'bogus' subjects, and blah, blah, blah...

Oh, well...:rolleyes:
Of course they don't post here. This is a skeptics' forum, and it's much easier to go and bury your head in the sand somewhere else that is dowser-friendly.

[Theseus]

Well, then I must say that what you and other skeptics here have to say about MFD is like revisiting Thomas Edison's statements that the only purpose of AC was to kill cats...

Give me a break! T. Edison stood to gain nothing if AC won out over DC, and that's why he made a valiant (but unsuccessful) attempt to kill the idea of AC for power distribution.

If you are interested in learning about Dowsing, visit the Dowsing section in the TNET forum... What a laugh. :lol: The TNET dowsing forum is all but dead, as a result of over-moderation on the part of Jeff of PA. If all you want to read about are nonsense book reviews by Mike H., and anecdotal dowsing accounts by Art F., then yes; visit the TNET forum. Oh yes, Dell advertises on that forum too.

If you want to be exposed to both sides of the dowsing debate/discussion, then this is the only place on the Internet where you can obtain a fair and balanced viewpoint. :)

[Dell Winders]

[QUOTE]Of course they don't post here. This is a skeptics' forum, and it's much easier to go and bury your head in the sand somewhere else that is dowser-friendly./QUOTE]

You're funny! :lol: Do I look like I'm burying my head in the sand? At least I give my real name, and phone number. I don't hide behind phony aliases, fake IP's, and pretend I'm a Scientist. Dell :)

[Qiaozhi]

You're funny! :lol: Do I look like I'm burying my head in the sand? At least I give my real name, and phone number. I don't hide behind phony aliases, fake IP's, and pretend I'm a Scientist. Dell :)
By using the term "burying your head in the sand" I was referring to the proponents of dowsing and MFDs continued denial of the truth. Not the fact that you use someone else's image as your avatar. :razz:

[Clondike Clad]

[quote]Of course they don't post here. This is a skeptics' forum, and it's much easier to go and bury your head in the sand somewhere else that is dowser-friendly./QUOTE]

You're funny! :lol: Do I look like I'm burying my head in the sand? At least I give my real name, and phone number. I don't hide behind phony aliases, fake IP's, and pretend I'm a Scientist. Dell :)
go for Carl's 25k or the one mill. Dell this way you can show carl and us by taking his money.

Dell anyone can post FAKE ON THE NET(SNAKE OIL CRAP)bUT ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SHOW THAT YOUR STUFF WORKS.:nono:

[Carl-NC]

Now seriously, this is now directed to the general reader and researcher who is interested to further evolve his/her studies, as this forum is not and will never be the right place for gathering info on this.

Depends... if you are interested in the technical merits of remote sensing techniques -- even including LRLs and dowsing -- then this is a Good Place to get that information.

If you are interested in fantasy discussions about devices and methods that only produce a realm of make-believe that gives you the feeling of doing something extraordinary and pretending to be a Big-Time Treasure Hunter, then there are better places for that.

If you are interested in learning about Dowsing, visit the Dowsing section in the TNET forum or any Dowsing forum and go direct to the source talking to real dowsers, their vast experience and their achievements.
You also will have a good basis to understand how MFD works.I agree, understand dowsing, and you will understand MFD.

You will hint on why Carl's Geotech forum has no Dowsing section and also why dowsers don't bother to post here about the subject.
Of course Carl will say that his forum is scientifically oriented and does not include 'bogus' subjects, and blah, blah, blah...From an LRL perspective, the Remote Sensing forum has turned out to be what I hoped it would be. I had hoped that people would question the "scientific" claims of LRL proponents & manufacturers, investigate the methods used, and explore other potential methods. That's exactly what has happened. Technically competent people have proposed, built, and tested devices and shared their results. I have yet to see a useful method come out of all this, but disproving bogus methods is useful in itself.

- Carl

[Carl-NC]

I don't hide behind phony aliases, fake IP's, and pretend I'm a Scientist.

No, but you dishonestly claim scientific support for your bogus devices.

[hung]

I had hoped that people would question the "scientific" claims of LRL proponents & manufacturers, investigate the methods used, and explore other potential methods. That's exactly what has happened. Technically competent people have proposed, built, and tested devices and shared their results.

As I belong to the 'LRL Tribe', I pocess 'data' that you don't.
For instance, I'm aware that there are several and several sucessful LRL users right now retrieving the goods and they swear by their devices. You can assure yourself about this. And you still hope they come here to show what they got?:lol::lol::lol:

C'mon Carl!:shocked:


I have yet to see a useful method come out of all this, but disproving bogus methods is useful in itself.

You bet! Too dangerous for individuals like yourself get their hands in stuff like that.
So yes,I agree. LRLs are bogus...
Regards.

[Dell Winders]

No, but you dishonestly claim scientific support for your bogus devices.

Carl, You are ridicously wrong again.
Of course, your lieing about me is habitual so I know you can't help it, and it's too late for you to change course without repercussions. Yet, I try to have compassion for your predicament. Dell :|

[Carl-NC]

Carl, You are ridicously wrong again.

John Baumgardner says I'm right.

[Dell Winders]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dell Winders
Carl, You are ridicously wrong again.

John Baumgardner says I'm right.

Whatever that means Carl? You certainly don't allow facts, or truth get in your way.

If you are referring to the comment I quoted from J.B. I can assure you that his comment is quoted accurately word for word, and in the proper context. I have the video to prove it.

However he is not the Scientist, that has provided me support. I have never met, or talked with J.B. I have apologized for any erroneous inference that he was ever a customer. He was not.

It is my understanding he built his own Frequency Generator from a Heathkit, and independently conducted his own MFD survey of the purported Noah's Ark, archaeological site.

The bottom line, is I started this thread to show that my products are used World wide, and some customers have publicly reported their results, which I am showing, as they have been reported in letters, and video's to me.

I certainly was not the one who brought up the subject of my MFD being used on Turkey's, proclaimed Nuh'n Gemisi site, but it's true, and for some reason there seems to be a bizare interest in it here?

To satisfy your interest, I can truthfully say my products are indeed being used by customers in Turkey, and not a single pull tab has been reported to have been found with my products. Dell :)

[Steve in MS]

So, by your stating your products don't pick up pulltabs, do they signal on gold rings? Are they selective in discriminating all alum?
If this is the case, you have very unique products since there are no portable devices (other than yours) that can do such a feat.
By all means, go into more detail about the pulltabs.

[J_Player]

To satisfy your interest, I can truthfully say my products are indeed being used by customers in Turkey, and not a single pull tab has been reported to have been found with my products. DellUmmm... so what has been reported to have been found in Turkey? Any treasure?

Are there any email addresses where we can write to these customers to check with them directly and learn about their experiences with the amazing Omnitron treasure machines? Or should we just take your word for it that we are getting the full story from you?

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

John Baumgardner is a (real) geophysicist who got involved in the Durupinar (Ark) site. He was initially duped by the claims of Fasold and others that the Omnitron MFD had successfully mapped out buried iron fittings at the site. But Baumgardner later conducted his own magnetometer and GPR surveys of the site, and determined that the results Fasold obtained with the MFD were totally wrong. Baumgardner realized the MFD concept was bogus. Years ago I personally contacted Baumgardner and confirmed this. He even sent me a copy of his report.

Here's the funny part. At one time, Dell included a quote from Baumgardner, without permission, in his "endorsements", see below. Since Baumgardner considered Dell's MFD to be bogus, he didn't take kindly to having his quote included, and made Dell remove it.WHAT!!! You mean Dell Winders lied to us again? :eek:

Dell fooled Baumgardner into thinking it was Noah's arc, then after Baumgardner said it is all bogus, Dell waited for Baumgardner to die and post his early mistaken conclusions to promote his Omnitron? This seems like a pretty sleazy thing to do to a dead man who isn't here to defend his true position on this matter. :nono:

Did you do it Dell? C'mon... tell us a simple yes or no...

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Whatever that means Carl? You certainly don't allow facts, or truth get in your way.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
That's a laugh!
Your efforts as a "sultan of spin" are rather sad. When have dowsing and LRL proponents ever let facts. or the truth, get in their way?

The bottom line, is I started this thread to show that my products are used World wide, and some customers have publicly reported their results, which I am showing, as they have been reported in letters, and video's to me.
In the same way that these products are widely used, and have numerous recommendations from valued clients: :razz:
http://www.soul-astrology.co.uk/recommendations.php

To satisfy your interest, I can truthfully say my products are indeed being used by customers in Turkey, and not a single pull tab has been reported to have been found with my products. Dell :)
A truthful statement, for once. However, you fail to mention whether anything useful was found by these "customers". :rolleyes:
So far you have only presented some rather shaky and dubious anecdotes, that imply your devices were somehow involved in the detection of certain important historical artifacts. This information is purely subjective, with insufficient evidence to be worthy of serious consideration.

And finally ... the parrot avatar is much more appropriate! :D

[Clondike Clad]

Whatever that means Carl? You certainly don't allow facts, or truth get in your way.

If you are referring to the comment I quoted from J.B. I can assure you that his comment is quoted accurately word for word, and in the proper context. I have the video to prove it.

However he is not the Scientist, that has provided me support. I have never met, or talked with J.B. I have apologized for any erroneous inference that he was ever a customer. He was not.

It is my understanding he built his own Frequency Generator from a Heathkit, and independently conducted his own MFD survey of the purported Noah's Ark, archaeological site.

The bottom line, is I started this thread to show that my products are used World wide, and some customers have publicly reported their results, which I am showing, as they have been reported in letters, and video's to me.

I certainly was not the one who brought up the subject of my MFD being used on Turkey's, proclaimed Nuh'n Gemisi site, but it's true, and for some reason there seems to be a bizare interest in it here?

To satisfy your interest, I can truthfully say my products are indeed being used by customers in Turkey, and not a single pull tab has been reported to have been found with my products. Dell :)

DELL I like the bird....but STILL WE WANT THE FACTS NOT SCAMS AKA (SNAKE OIL CRAP).;)

[Carl-NC]

If you are referring to the comment I quoted from J.B. I can assure you that his comment is quoted accurately word for word, and in the proper context. I have the video to prove it.

It may well have been accurate, but (1) it does not reflect Baumgardner's final conclusions about MFD after he had tested it so you misrepresented him, and (2) you used it without his permission which is highly unethical.

However he is not the Scientist, that has provided me support.Right... and let me guess... we are not allowed to know the name of this other mysterious scientist who supports the concept of MFD. Therefore, we can just dismiss this claim because it's absolutely meaningless.

It is my understanding he built his own Frequency Generator from a Heathkit, and independently conducted his own MFD survey of the purported Noah's Ark, archaeological site.He conducted a mag and GPR survey of the site, which showed the MFD survey to be completely wrong.

The bottom line, is I started this thread to show that my products are used World wide, and some customers have publicly reported their results, which I am showing, as they have been reported in letters, and video's to me.And people should know that you have both misrepresented opinions and events, and made claims that you refuse to support with any evidence.

I certainly was not the one who brought up the subject of my MFD being used on Turkey's, proclaimed Nuh'n Gemisi site, but it's true, and for some reason there seems to be a bizare interest in it here?It's certainly true that your MFD was used on this site, but the results were garbage. There is a difference between the Truth and the Whole Truth, and you avoid the Whole Truth.

To satisfy your interest, I can truthfully say my products are indeed being used by customers in Turkey, and not a single pull tab has been reported to have been found with my products.Again we have a Truth, but not the Whole Truth.

- Carl

[Carl-NC]

So, by your stating your products don't pick up pulltabs, do they signal on gold rings? Are they selective in discriminating all alum?
If this is the case, you have very unique products since there are no portable devices (other than yours) that can do such a feat.
By all means, go into more detail about the pulltabs.

Dell does not claim that his MFD will locate gold rings, so it's moot. In fact, he doesn't claim his MFD will do anything (read the advertising!).

[Carl-NC]

Dell fooled Baumgardner into thinking it was Noah's arc, then after Baumgardner said it is all bogus, Dell waited for Baumgardner to die and post his early mistaken conclusions to promote his Omnitron? This seems like a pretty sleazy thing to do to a dead man who isn't here to defend his true position on this matter.

You're getting people mixed up. David Fasold is the dead guy, he's the one who thought he had found Noah's Ark, sent Dell a letter to that effect, then later changed his mind and concluded the site was a natural formation. Dell does not acknowledge anything beyond the letter he uses to advertise with.

John Baumgardner is a geophysicist who went to the site, did GPR & mag surveys, and showed the MFD surveys to be bogus and useless. Dell posted a quote by Baumgardner -- "I had no idea that such a device existed," something anyone might say on a first impression -- which implied Baumgardner endorsed Dell's products, when the exact opposite was true.

Both of these examples clearly show that Dell is very loose with the facts, and even unethical in his use of endorsements.

- Carl

[J_Player]

.

[J_Player]

You're getting people mixed up. David Fasold is the dead guy
Yes, you are right about that. I had my facts wrong because I didn't read the details close enough.

But this brings an interesting point -- the difference between the facts and the truth.
It appears that Dell stated historically accurate facts.
From what I can see, all the things Dell said happened, did happen, just as he said.

But when we add some more historically accurate facts to the ones Dell told us about, the impression of people's experience with Omnitron products seems to change dramatically. The point being that the truth is not represented by just a collection of a few selected historical facts. We see that if we listen to only the facts Dell wants us to hear, and never hear the rest of the related facts, then we could end up being amongst the exceptionally stupid people who actually pay money for Dell's paint rollers and welding rods to help find treasure.

Consider this example: A man in his amazement, is quoted to say:
"I can't believe it! That bottle of snake oil saved my life... there was nothing else that could have done it in that circumstance".
Now suppose we add some more related facts:
1. The snake oil was in a stainless steel flask in his shirt pocket, along with a piece of paper and a pencil.
2. A stray bullet came his way and penetrated his shirt pocket, heading straight for his heart, but was stopped by the bottle of snake oil instead.

Doesn't this change the picture? So what is the truth? Did the bottle of snake oil save his life? It may be a historically accurate fact, but the truth is that metal bottle with any other liquid could have done the same. So we don't need to go out and buy snake oil to save our lives. By checking with engineers and scientists, we can find that there are much better bullet shields available than metal flasks of snake oil.

But what about Dell spouting off about how he always tells the truth and never lies? I will translate his words to mean he always supplies selected facts to help him sell his gizmoes, omitting and hiding any facts that would taint people's impression of his honesty. If I want a few facts, Dell will supply them. But if I want the truth, I will look elsewhere, from people who have the rest of the facts that Dell does not want us to know about.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Steve in MS]

Dell does not claim that his MFD will locate gold rings, so it's moot. In fact, he doesn't claim his MFD will do anything (read the advertising!).

I agree, he has a sort of a disclaimer worded about his devices in the descriptions, I guess that will keep him out of legal trouble:D:D:lol::lol:.

[J_Player]

Dell does not claim that his MFD will locate gold rings, so it's moot. In fact, he doesn't claim his MFD will do anything (read the advertising!).So Qiaozhi was right?
Is Dell's MFD a "do nothing" gadget? :eek:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Carl-NC]

But what about Dell spouting off about how he always tells the truth and never lies? I will translate his words to mean he always supplies selected facts to help him sell his gizmoes, omitting and hiding any facts that would taint people's impression of his honesty. If I want a few facts, Dell will supply them. But if I want the truth, I will look elsewhere, from people who have the rest of the facts that Dell does not want us to know about.

Dell does provide very select "facts" that narrowly represent his version of the Truth, which is not the Whole Truth.

Ferinstance...

It is true that David Fasold initially believed MFD worked, just as he initially believed in the Ark site. But faced with evidence to the contrary, he changed his mind about the Ark site. This is clearly documented, but Dell chooses only to present Fasold's earlier incorrect view.

It is [probably] true that Baumgardner made the quote Dell used. It is certainly true that Baumgardner later dismissed MFD as bogus, and it is true that Dell used that testimonial without permission.

It is [likely] true that Dell's "products are indeed being used by customers in Turkey." But this narrow fact says nothing about their results, and they may be running a 100% failure rate. I have personally been contacted by several people in Turkey who have bought LRLs (can't remember the brands offhand) and asked me how to get them to work, because they could not.

Now, is it true that Baumgardner is not the "scientist" Dell claims supports MFD? Maybe. But Dell won't name the "scientist", so there is no way to check the honesty of that claim. And, based on his avoidance of Whole Truth disclosure, I suspect there is only a very narrow truth to this claim, and a much more revealing Whole Truth.

So Qiaozhi was right?
Is Dell's MFD a "do nothing" gadget?

That depends on your perspective. When Dell sells a device, he makes money, so it does something for him! I've always said, MFD is designed to find treasure exactly once.

- Carl

[joecoin]

From what i have seen before when someone make a precise question Dell automatically stops posting for a while.

PS : For you Joecoin :

Thanks, but I don't need a comb, that photo is me in my younger wild days.

[Theseus]

So Qiaozhi was right?
Is Dell's MFD a "do nothing" gadget? :eek:

Best wishes,
J_P

Dell's MFD contraption apparently does exactly what a bent coat hanger (into an L-shape) would do. It works as a result of an ideomotor response. Thus, the added frequency generator and rods electrically connected to AA batteries, or the Weight Check Gimmick or whatever; serve no useful purpose whatsoever.

If you read his advertising; he actually admits this fact.

Excerpt from Dell's advertising: "If you wish to determine if MFD will work for you, bend a pair of L-Rods from coat hangers, wire, or Brass welding rods. Lay a garden hose on the ground and turn on the water. Hold the rods parallel with each other and the ground and walk across the garden hose. If there is no interference the rods will react by crossing and aligning themselves with the electrical/magnetic field generated by the water running through the garden hose."

Now, if you hand 10 individuals a pair of L-rods, show them the expected response when walking over a garden hose; how many of them do you suppose would NOT get the appropriate (ideomotor induced) reaction? I'd have to say every one of them would get the "expected" reaction. Once that happens, the hook is set and another unfortunate sucker is about to be reeled in --since obviously they just qualified to use his LRL/MFD contraption.

Oh, incidentally..... running water through a garden hose DOES NOT generate a electrical or a magnetic field that will influence rods held at waist level (or any other level). If it did, the field would be strong enough so we could dispense with the dowsing rods and merely detect the field with a compass needle, since it would have to be stronger than the ambient geomagnetic field.

Carl is no doubt right. LRL/MFD locates treasure exactly once; when the sucker pays cold hard cash for the contraption.... and Dell laughs all the way to the bank. :D

[Qiaozhi]

Now, if you hand 10 individuals a pair of L-rods, show them the expected response when walking over a garden hose; how many of them do you suppose would NOT get the appropriate (ideomotor induced) reaction? I'd have to say every one of them would get the "expected" reaction. Once that happens, the hook is set and another unfortunate sucker is about to be reeled in --since obviously they just qualified to use his LRL/MFD contraption.
Even if water was not flowing in the pipe, you would still get the same result. It's the suggestion that sets the scene. This is why it's a trick of the mind.

[Theseus]

Even if water was not flowing in the pipe, you would still get the same result. It's the suggestion that sets the scene. This is why it's a trick of the mind.

Exactly!

That's why selling such things using tricks of the mind is called Fraud through Willful Deception. ;)

[Jim]

I have had several private reports of major finds with the aid of my products from customers in several countries. These reports are given to me in confidentiality so I am not at liberty to disclose them publicly, however some comments have been made publicly so I'll take the time to start mention a few on this thread.

THIS WAS POSTED ON TREASURE NET IN 2002, ACCOMPANIED WITH A DOZEN PHOTOS. THE TREASURE WAS REPORTED TO BE WORTH AS MUCH AS $30,000,000, or more DELL :)


TreasureNet Long Range Locator Forum - Dell Winders & Bill Mo ... http://treasurenet.com/forumll<>q\tor/messagesl13146.shtml
S.e·..e I.t.*.'.
Index 1lq8e$ Po« Rqfy FAQ Advertise
Dell Winders & Bill Morgan
Posted by Prospector
April 18, 2002 at 20:04:31
http://ww.w.angelfire.com/utITIPET/newmex.htm

Well.·I might as well bring this to this forum-so you can kick it
around,
I would have never believed it if I had not seen it with my own two
eyes" never"" but the gold bars that were found in these pics were found",
and I have to say this under my breath ... yes with a Ohmnitron
somethin or another",Dells unit. ..
and yes the Bill Morgan unit that Bill built for me varified the find,,,
pointed to the same place ....
Believe it or not"" I still don't.. ..but it is true ....
ya just never know .....LOL
.
lof3 4/19/02 10:18 PM

I know this is a old post....however, further investigations shows the post to be a warning from "Prospector" about known scam artist Powel Nowak.

"Prospector" was not reporting a treasure he found...he was warning of a scam. Based on this information, Dell is obviously using the scam warning as a positive solicitation for his product.

You can find more warnings about Powel Nowack from "Prospector" here:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forum/treasurehunting/

and plainly see "Prospector" is not endorsing Dell's products. Ah....the wicked games to deceive