PDK LRL

[goldfinder]

Morgan mentioned a PDK LRL. Can Morgan or someone tell what this is. I did a Google search and nothing.

A PDK clone = what is that?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks to all in advance.

Goldfinder

[Morgan]

Morgan mentioned a PDK LRL. Can Morgan or someone tell what this is. I did a Google search and nothing.

A PDK clone = what is that?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks to all in advance.

Goldfinder
Hi

The PDK its a Long Range Locator,PD or PDK its the same PISTOLDETEKTOR.
Max and Fred & Qiaozhi,work a lot to reverse engeneering the 6 PCB circuits made by Alonso,but the result was frustrating becouse they made many errors in the new schematic,that if someone try to build one PDK this will not work...
I can put the list of errors found until now,maybe there are more...

Regards

[Max]

Hi

The PDK its a Long Range Locator,PD or PDK its the same PISTOLDETEKTOR.
Max and Fred & Qiaozhi,work a lot to reverse engeneering the 6 PCB circuits made by Alonso,but the result was frustrating becouse they made many errors in the new schematic,that if someone try to build one PDK this will not work...
I can put the list of errors found until now,maybe there are more...

Regards

Hi,
no you're wrong.

I don't wanna disclose everything here... cause some people don't like all details will be out... even if the stuff, really, don't work! :D

I respect their ideas and so will say just what's appropriate here. :rolleyes:

The main part is a simple old style MD. The schematic for it is correct, no errors, and works perfectly. I've replicated it and tested myself... like others did also. Why I tell you the schematic is PERFECT !? I know it is, cannot tell you why I'm so sure... but Qiaozhi, Fred, Geo, JPlayer etc all are sure like I'm that this part have no mistake.

The problem is that has the very normal range of an MD, so just few cms over small stuff like coins, not meters or half meters like described.

Another part of the circuit is, instead, like a radio receiver, this unusual stuff found in PDK was declared providing long range abilities to the normal MD there... but actually, also replicated in all possible details, it doesn't provide any extra depth in detection... having no usefulness in all that thing apart draining a small current and adding more instability.

All the rest are claims that were never confirmed by "serious" members with real good intentions and understanding of electronics involved.

Or do you belive in Hung's (and yourself) claims... ??? :lol:

Not to talk that you added a 7th faked board picture... with board over coil... that's not really fair thing after you filled the forums with claims there are just 6 boards inside PDK! :lol:

C'mon, the game is over.:rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Geo]

Personally i agree with Max.:)

[J_Player]

I have seen no real evidence that the PDK does anything different than what Max said. I hear only talk from people who claim it will find long range. If anyone has an exact replica of the Alonso pistol that will really find gold at 10 feet distance, then they can easily win the $25,000 prize money that Carl offers.

I have not seen this happen yet. What is the reason?

Are they still trying to protect the propriety of the Alonso design? Well guess what? We found out this design was copyrighted years ago by the Heathkit company when they designed the main circuit. -- So no problems here. Even if the circuits were proprietary, they do not have to be revealed in order to win the $25,000 prize.

So what other reason?
Are the owners of the working Alonso replicas finding so much valuable treasure that they don't have time to waste on some small $25,000 prize?
:rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

I have seen no real evidence that the PDK does anything different than what Max said. I hear only talk from people who claim it will find long range. If anyone has an exact replica of the Alonso pistol that will really find gold at 10 feet distance, then they can easily win the $25,000 prize money that Carl offers.

I have not seen this happen yet. What is the reason?

Are they still trying to protect the propriety of the Alonso design? Well guess what? We found out this design was copyrighted years ago by the Heathkit company when they designed the main circuit. -- So no problems here. Even if the circuits were proprietary, they do not have to be revealed in order to win the $25,000 prize.

So what other reason?
Are the owners of the working Alonso replicas finding so much valuable treasure that they don't have time to waste on some small $25,000 prize?
:rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P
Yes the $25,000 its realy very small price. I dont go to America for this little money,so wath happens when i win the price? Just think !!! I´m sure they dont let me return unless i give them the LRL device to copy. THIS IS THE REALITY ABOUT THE CHALLENGE !!!!! One true LRL who works for AMERICA :)

[Esteban]

I have seen no real evidence that the PDK does anything different than what Max said. I hear only talk from people who claim it will find long range. If anyone has an exact replica of the Alonso pistol that will really find gold at 10 feet distance, then they can easily win the $25,000 prize money that Carl offers.

I have not seen this happen yet. What is the reason?

Are they still trying to protect the propriety of the Alonso design? Well guess what? We found out this design was copyrighted years ago by the Heathkit company when they designed the main circuit. -- So no problems here. Even if the circuits were proprietary, they do not have to be revealed in order to win the $25,000 prize.

So what other reason?
Are the owners of the working Alonso replicas finding so much valuable treasure that they don't have time to waste on some small $25,000 prize?
:rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

Detection via pistol demmand some conditions imposed by nature, as target will be stay buried in soil for some years. So, the only possibility for to show his success is finding the items in the terrain. Also exist this problem: for to be detectable a coin at 1 meter depth and some meters (5-10), the target need stay buried intact (no movement of terrain, for example) for 100 years. The same item can be detectable at few centimeters buried 3 to 5 years, etc. Mineralization of soil also influences here (iron terrain).

In this theme is the nature "who write" the rules, no Carl, not you, no Sam Scaffieri, no everybody. :lol: But in the past Alonso was capable for to detect outside the soil at sight many meters... (no Heathkit here) :)

[Esteban]

I have seen no real evidence that the PDK does anything different than what Max said. I hear only talk from people who claim it will find long range. If anyone has an exact replica of the Alonso pistol that will really find gold at 10 feet distance, then they can easily win the $25,000 prize money that Carl offers.

I have not seen this happen yet. What is the reason?

Are they still trying to protect the propriety of the Alonso design? Well guess what? We found out this design was copyrighted years ago by the Heathkit company when they designed the main circuit. -- So no problems here. Even if the circuits were proprietary, they do not have to be revealed in order to win the $25,000 prize.

So what other reason?
Are the owners of the working Alonso replicas finding so much valuable treasure that they don't have time to waste on some small $25,000 prize?
:rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

This pistol is not commercial. Is the same case when you made replica of other detectors. But if you study very well detectors circuitry... not very extraterrestrial design you'll find. :lol:

[Max]

Hi,
ok... now that JPlayer wrote about (why? :???:) that there's no reason to miss that part of the story to get a larger picture.

Me and Qiaozhi found the Heathkit schematic of original MD used inside the PD.

Qiaozhi at first realized that something similar was both in an old Heathkit schematic but something was wrong in that respect to the reverse engineering schematic of PD, different connections and components.

Then I found another schematic, that time was another , later MD, always by Heathkit, and we realized it was the exact same stuff of what's inside the PD... in it's main part that uses the coil in the round container.
It's an off-resonance kind.

So we concluded that the PD was not a design by Alonso as claimed on the old thread about PD... but something probably modified and adapted by him using parts from different stuff, like that MD from heathkit... that's about 70% of PD circuit...other stuff like audio part is really easy thing and unimportant. Last "unknown" piece is a broadband amplitude modulation receiver... but very basic stuff. There couldn't be a patent about simply cause the technology of that MD is already patented by the Heathkit corp. in the 60's and 70's. The radio part is out maybe from 100years already... what you wanna patent of it ? ;) Marconi probably hold that patent before...

Now, that's why I told you I'm so sure of no mistakes in the MD part: we know many months ago that it was copied from the Heathkit MD I wrote, that IT IS an Heathkit MD inside just with a smaller coil than original, and so everything is right in it... don't forget Heathkit's engineers made its design! :rolleyes:

Actually some of us made it for real, and works also cool, but as normal MD! :D

But all the rest seems more and more a fairy tale. :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Morgan]

Hi,
ok... now that JPlayer wrote about (why? :???:) that there's no reason to miss that part of the story to get a larger picture.

Me and Qiaozhi found the Heathkit schematic of original MD used inside the PD.

Qiaozhi at first realized that something similar was both in an old Heathkit schematic but something was wrong in that respect to the reverse engineering schematic of PD, different connections and components.

Then I found another schematic, that time was another , later MD, always by Heathkit, and we realized it was the exact same stuff of what's inside the PD... in it's main part that uses the coil in the round container.
It's an off-resonance kind.

So we concluded that the PD was not a design by Alonso as claimed on the old thread about PD... but something probably modified and adapted by him using parts from different stuff, like that MD from heathkit... that's about 70% of PD circuit...other stuff like audio part is really easy thing and unimportant. Last "unknown" piece is a broadband amplitude modulation receiver... but very basic stuff. There couldn't be a patent about simply cause the technology of that MD is already patented by the Heathkit corp. in the 60's and 70's. The radio part is out maybe from 100years already... what you wanna patent of it ? ;) Marconi probably hold that patent before...

Now, that's why I told you I'm so sure of no mistakes in the MD part: we know many months ago that it was copied from the Heathkit MD I wrote, that IT IS an Heathkit MD inside just with a smaller coil than original, and so everything is right in it... don't forget Heathkit's engineers made its design! :rolleyes:

Actually some of us made it for real, and works also cool, but as normal MD! :D

But all the rest seems more and more a fairy tale. :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max
Hey Max

In this photo,it was you in Vietnam war ???:oh::oh::oh::oh::oh::oh::oh::oh:

[J_Player]

Actually some of us made it for real, and works also cool, but as normal MD! :D
But all the rest seems more and more a fairy tale. :rolleyes:
Yes the $25,000 its realy very small price. I dont go to America for this little money,so wath happens when i win the price? Just think !!! I´m sure they dont let me return unless i give them the LRL device to copy. THIS IS THE REALITY ABOUT THE CHALLENGE !!!!! One true LRL who works for AMERICA :)
Well. here we have it... Max says the PDK is a cool Heathkit metal detector that actually works like a regular metal detector, and the rest is a fairy tale. And Morgan says he does not try to win the $25,000 prize with his PDK because it is a small prize compared to the extremely valuable treasures he is finding, and because he believes he will be forced to surrender his pistol detector after he wins.

AMAZING! ... Doesn't this prove the pistol detector really does work to find gold at long distances?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hey Max

In this photo,it was you in Vietnam war ???:oh::oh::oh::oh::oh::oh::oh::oh:

Hi,
no, the picture is from wikipedia.

It's not from Vietnam era.

Show a marine that shot an AK...

How can you confuse that vegetation with that of Vietnam ??? :shocked:

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

ok... now that JPlayer wrote about (why? :???:) that there's no reason to miss that part of the story to get a larger picture.Hi Max,
JPlayer wrote about (why? :???:)
What I posted has been public information available to all unregistered forum readers anywhere in the world. There is no reason not to post information that anyone can read in the geotech forums. You will see an early version of schematics for the pistol detector (with some errors) in this forum post: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=64025

You will also find the identical Heathkit schematic has been in the geotech forum for years here: http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forum/tech/images/GD-48_BW.gif

Anyone can see the basic Alonso pistol circuit has been copied from the Heathkit GD-348 metal detector which was state of the art decades ago, but is now considered obsolete.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi Max,
JPlayer wrote about (why? :???:)
What I posted has been public information available to all unregistered forum readers anywhere in the world. There is no reason not to post information that anyone can read in the geotech forums. You will see an early version of schematics for the pistol detector (with some errors) in this forum post: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=64025

You will also find the identical Heathkit schematic has been in the geotech forum for years here: http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forum/tech/images/GD-48_BW.gif

Anyone can see the basic Alonso pistol circuit has been copied from the Heathkit GD-348 metal detector which was state of the art decades ago, but is now considered obsolete.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
:lol: yes, but that wasn't so immediate conclusion... me and Qiaozhi probably searched for 2-3 days before we found that....I think Esteban will not be happy of your post, anyway. ;)

My intention was leaving out that "details" cause Esteban and other people were worried about implications of making public domain that inside the PD was actually an Heathkit GD-348 MD...

There was a general agreement of keeping out of public domain any reference to that topic of the Heathkit stuff...also with the explicit intention of avoiding mass production of cloned PDs in Asia and other parts of the world. Or also... cloned GD-348 MDs! :lol:

Not that I belived really could happen... but you know... today you make an unuseful 10$ bottlecap-remover in western world... then after a couple of weeks you see tons of them in your local store... at 0.99$ each , ALL from a country that we know... where producing stuff is really cheap cause of low salaries...and no good environment policy at now!

Indeed I agree with Esteban when he said that, cause PD was never a commercial unit, there's nothing more than copying old schematics of other brands for personal use only...research and the like, we made here.

Also, like with other schematics here at Geotech most are obsolete stuff... not anymore in production (like the GD-348 ), so the issues about e.g. patents infringements are about academic (unless really Heathkit -or what remains of it- will jump in, really few probable I think).

That sure took another important fact, means also that many people beliving in an original Alonso's design masterpiece will be now about disappointed.:rolleyes:

So Esteban will be even less happy about that post!

On the other hand the logic of PD is reusing existing technology to make something different, and that "idea" could stay in a patent... if it's an innovation on existing detection methods (at least this is the belief of who trust Alonso)...but no patent exist as far as we know.

But the most important issue is still that device , after all tests and cloning, failed in reproducing any LRL behaviour. :cool:

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

The PDK working as an LRL is just an illusion. You can take almost any non-motion detector circuit; replace the standard audio with a "beeper"; and adjust the sensitivity so that it's on the edge of instability. You then mount the coil in a horizontal position, and off you go. After that it becomes a trick of the mind. In a similar manner to dowsing, you start to see patterns in the random beeping (that are not really there) or are possibly due to multi-path reflections, and start following an imaginary "signal line". At some point you will reach an area that looks interesting to the subconscious mind, and you search around (now using the PDK as a real metal detector) and low-and-behold you find something! Of course, the "treasure" was never really detected from several meters away, but it's a good illusion. The PDK has the added advantage that it has a real metal detector built-in, whereas normal LRLers do their final recovery with a different detector.

[Theseus]

The PDK working as an LRL is just an illusion. You can take almost any non-motion detector circuit; replace the standard audio with a "beeper"; and adjust the sensitivity so that it's on the edge of instability. You then mount the coil in a horizontal position, and off you go. After that it becomes a trick of the mind. In a similar manner to dowsing, you start to see patterns in the random beeping (that are not really there) or are possibly due to multi-path reflections, and start following an imaginary "signal line". At some point you will reach an area that looks interesting to the subconscious mind, and you search around (now using the PDK as a real metal detector) and low-and-behold you find something! Of course, the "treasure" was never really detected from several meters away, but it's a good illusion. The PDK has the added advantage that it has a real metal detector built-in, whereas normal LRLers do their final recovery with a different detector.

Whenever a metal detector (either separate or built-in) is melded with a dowsing instrument, the true merit or worth of the dowsing gadget will always be an unknown --no matter what the operator believes.

The only way to effectively evaluate a dowsing wand (or dowsing method) is to test it by itself.

[Fred]

The PDK working as an LRL is just an illusion. You can take almost any non-motion detector circuit; replace the standard audio with a "beeper"; and adjust the sensitivity so that it's on the edge of instability. You then mount the coil in a horizontal position, and off you go. After that it becomes a trick of the mind. In a similar manner to dowsing, you start to see patterns in the random beeping (that are not really there) or are possibly due to multi-path reflections, and start following an imaginary "signal line". At some point you will reach an area that looks interesting to the subconscious mind, and you search around (now using the PDK as a real metal detector) and low-and-behold you find something! Of course, the "treasure" was never really detected from several meters away, but it's a good illusion. The PDK has the added advantage that it has a real metal detector built-in, whereas normal LRLers do their final recovery with a different detector.
Hi Qiaozhi,
I agree that is very likely, but you cannot completely rule out that if there is some (let´s call it) halo effect, holding a metallic coil or whatever above ground at a particular and regular height on edge of detection may detect it...

[Qiaozhi]

Whenever a metal detector (either separate or built-in) is melded with a dowsing instrument, the true merit or worth of the dowsing gadget will always be an unknown --no matter what the operator believes.

The only way to effectively evaluate a dowsing wand (or dowsing method) is to test it by itself.
I agree with your statement. Except (in this case) the PDK is not a dowsing instrument. There is no swinging handle, or similar gizmo. It is entirely electronic, in a similar manner to the Mineoro stuff.

Hi Qiaozhi,
I agree that is very likely, but you cannot completely rule out that if there is some (let´s call it) halo effect, holding a metallic coil or whatever above ground at a particular and regular height on edge of detection may detect it...
I think it's much more than "likely". There may be a halo effect in the ground created by certain items, but the idea of some sort of ionic cloud, hovering above longtime buried gold, is pure fantasy.

[Max]

Hi Qiaozhi,
I agree that is very likely, but you cannot completely rule out that if there is some (let´s call it) halo effect, holding a metallic coil or whatever above ground at a particular and regular height on edge of detection may detect it...

Hi,
yes, we talk about that, I remember the "halo" issue well.

Though I think the so called "halo" really exist and not only for ferrous items, long time buried... cause had experiences that cannot be easy explained not considering that kind of effects.... I must say that the idea of PD detecting a supposed "halo" of e.g. a coin from meters far is pretty unrealistic.

That's cause we found no connections happens at long range, the device seems work (as a normal MD) in the short range only, unless a very (BUT VERY) big object is in front of it... in which case is not impossible reading a detection also at 4-5meters away... that's the case of very large (several square meters) conductive objects, usually big iron doors, when disc work not properly.

It's halo ? No. The square meters of a large door can be detected also by other kind of sensitive MDs... expecially PIs, I must say that the fact an old off-resonance MD design can do that doesn't surprised me much at that time.

My last idea of PD is that is a bit of black magic + some old style electronics.

Why black magic ? Easy: it's the unexplained there... the broadband receiver is there just cause the general idea is, like in the goldgun stuff, detecting the presence or absence of some radio signal, with undefined frequency or subject to frequency shifts.

If you ask about if the PD works or not... you'll better ask yourself if the goldgun could ever work.

For me it's clear that will not work... but others seems still think that the goldgun "principle" as the right way to the promised land of working LRLs. :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Pistol detector based on regular detector works as long range detector (some meters) and is possible in conjunction with other(s) circuit(s).

Morgan has success finding targets with it, I have success with similar instrument... so maybe the problem is errors in schematics or connections.

The ferrite section is the real long range detector in this project.

Pistols with MD can be:

1. Based in regular MD + RF circuit

2. Absorption as the ferrite, in wich case MD is for pinpointing unburied target.

Of course, if you publish all schematics here, the people will reproduce and sell the devices, workable or not workable. Do you want to be part of it? :lol:

Regards

Esteban

[Max]

Pistol detector based on regular detector works as long range detector (some meters) and is possible in conjunction with other(s) circuit(s).

Morgan has success finding targets with it, I have success with similar instrument... so maybe the problem is errors in schematics or connections.

The ferrite section is the real long range detector in this project.

Pistols with MD can be:

1. Based in regular MD + RF circuit

2. Absorption as the ferrite, in wich case MD is for pinpointing unburied target.

Of course, if you publish all schematics here, the people will reproduce and sell the devices, workable or not workable. Do you want to be part of it? :lol:

Regards

Esteban

Hi,
I don't want put everything public domain... I've already explained that... and reasons also (even if I don't agree on some statements made at that time).

I revealed a "misty" part of the story just after JP provided the main information...

But we then stalled on the interesting issue: having a working LRL device , cloned working PD, as reported by mr Morgan. :D

I think what's happening now is not dependand by my will... it's just cause some people invested time and efforts in that process and are a bit (maybe) furstrated by that PD stuff that now it's like opening the Pandora's box of PD ! :lol:

It's like when someone plays with a flamethrower full of napalm inside a nuclear reactor thing....singing "seek and destroy"!
Do you think really someone could now avoid a big blast there ?

I think mr Morgan striked the first match...with that post of above...talking about our unsuccessful reverse engineering and mistakes...:lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

I think it's much more than "likely". There may be a halo effect in the ground created by certain items, but the idea of some sort of ionic cloud, hovering above longtime buried gold, is pure fantasy.
Hey,you are the one talking of hovering ions, not me ! :lol:
I still think there is some effect in cause. But as we know nothing about it, i can´t tell if it may or not be detected at "some distance".

That's cause we found no connections happens at long range, the device seems work (as a normal MD) in the short range only, unless a very (BUT VERY) big object is in front of it...

I know, but personally i cannot guarantee that i tested it in presence of a halo...
I am not defending anything here, except what i think must be real neutrality in judging the results.If positive results must be scientifically tested, so must be negative ones too :razz:
Regards,
Fred.

[Qiaozhi]

I know, but personally i cannot guarantee that i tested it in presence of a halo...
I am not defending anything here, except what i think must be real neutrality in judging the results.If positive results must be scientifically tested, so must be negative ones too :razz:
Regards,
Fred.
So far there have not been any "confirmed" positive results ... just hearsay.

[Morgan]

Hi,
:lol: yes, but that wasn't so immediate conclusion... me and Qiaozhi probably searched for 2-3 days before we found that....I think Esteban will not be happy of your post, anyway. ;)

My intention was leaving out that "details" cause Esteban and other people were worried about implications of making public domain that inside the PD was actually an Heathkit GD-348 MD...

There was a general agreement of keeping out of public domain any reference to that topic of the Heathkit stuff...also with the explicit intention of avoiding mass production of cloned PDs in Asia and other parts of the world. Or also... cloned GD-348 MDs! :lol:

Not that I belived really could happen... but you know... today you make an unuseful 10$ bottlecap-remover in western world... then after a couple of weeks you see tons of them in your local store... at 0.99$ each , ALL from a country that we know... where producing stuff is really cheap cause of low salaries...and no good environment policy at now!

Indeed I agree with Esteban when he said that, cause PD was never a commercial unit, there's nothing more than copying old schematics of other brands for personal use only...research and the like, we made here.

Also, like with other schematics here at Geotech most are obsolete stuff... not anymore in production (like the GD-348 ), so the issues about e.g. patents infringements are about academic (unless really Heathkit -or what remains of it- will jump in, really few probable I think).

That sure took another important fact, means also that many people beliving in an original Alonso's design masterpiece will be now about disappointed.:rolleyes:

So Esteban will be even less happy about that post!

On the other hand the logic of PD is reusing existing technology to make something different, and that "idea" could stay in a patent... if it's an innovation on existing detection methods (at least this is the belief of who trust Alonso)...but no patent exist as far as we know.

But the most important issue is still that device , after all tests and cloning, failed in reproducing any LRL behaviour. :cool:

Kind regards,
Max
Yes,it failled but only to the person who made mistakes when construct and calibrate device ...:rolleyes:

[J_Player]

It has been confirmed that in most locations, the ground around long-time buried metals including gold is not the same as the same ground around recently buried metals. There is an Australian company that runs a thriving business locating gold and other ore deposits by sampling the ground above the buried ore. From their literature, they claim ions of the ore move upward through the soil in a column, exactly as is described on the Mineoro website. But they make no claims that these ions become airborne where they can be detected by a modified metal detector. According to the company who pioneered the mobile metal ion business, these upward moving ions become neutralized as a compound within the last 10 cm of reaching the surface of the earth. According to their measurements, this extremely weak column of ions travels upward as much as 5000 feet before neutralizing just below the surface.

It is my opinion there is a "halo", provided you describe a halo as an anomaly in the soil which exists as a column in the earth above long-time buried metals. I do not believe any halo extends above the surface of the ground. If it is possible to sense the location of buried metal from above the ground without taking a soil sample, then I believe it would be explained by secondary effects, not by the metal ions floating into the air.

However, I have never seen any reliable device locate any halo at long range except by taking a sample of the soil to show that it has a higher concentration of ions than the surrounding soil. None of the talk about LRLs locating buried metals was ever demonstrated to me live in an area unknown to the operator of the LRL. Also, no LRL in the world has ever won Carl's $25,000 prize. The only LRL I have heard of attempting to win a prize is the contraption Dell Winders used to try to find coins in the sand in front of Randi. The reports show that Dell failed miserably, and then claimed Randi lied about the test results. When Randi offered Dell a re-test for a $1 million prize, Dell refused.

Is there any LRL in the world that can be demonstrated now in front of witnesses to find an unknown long-time buried treasure at long range?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Steve in MS]

Is there any LRL in the world that can be demonstrated now in front of witnesses to find an unknown long-time buried treasure at long range?

Best wishes,
J_P

Apparently not:D. What is apparent is the continued list of "ideal" circumstances that must be met so that the LRL will work at all:lol:.
Come on now:razz:, it doesn't find gold unless it has been in the ground for hundreds of years, who knows, maybe it takes thousands or millions of years for it to work properly:D.
Enough of excuses and theoretical nonsense:D, if there is anyone out there that has one that works, prove it:D.
That's right, step up and show the world:D!
Like the saying goes, money talks, bs walks:D.

[Esteban]

It has been confirmed that in most locations, the ground around long-time buried metals including gold is not the same as the same ground around recently buried metals. There is an Australian company that runs a thriving business locating gold and other ore deposits by sampling the ground above the buried ore. From their literature, they claim ions of the ore move upward through the soil in a column, exactly as is described on the Mineoro website. But they make no claims that these ions become airborne where they can be detected by a modified metal detector. According to the company who pioneered the mobile metal ion business, these upward moving ions become neutralized as a compound within the last 10 cm of reaching the surface of the earth. According to their measurements, this extremely weak column of ions travels upward as much as 5000 feet before neutralizing just below the surface.

It is my opinion there is a "halo", provided you describe a halo as an anomaly in the soil which exists as a column in the earth above long-time buried metals. I do not believe any halo extends above the surface of the ground. If it is possible to sense the location of buried metal from above the ground without taking a soil sample, then I believe it would be explained by secondary effects, not by the metal ions floating into the air.

However, I have never seen any reliable device locate any halo at long range except by taking a sample of the soil to show that it has a higher concentration of ions than the surrounding soil. None of the talk about LRLs locating buried metals was ever demonstrated to me live in an area unknown to the operator of the LRL. Also, no LRL in the world has ever won Carl's $25,000 prize. The only LRL I have heard of attempting to win a prize is the contraption Dell Winders used to try to find coins in the sand in front of Randi. The reports show that Dell failed miserably, and then claimed Randi lied about the test results. When Randi offered Dell a re-test for a $1 million prize, Dell refused.

Is there any LRL in the world that can be demonstrated now in front of witnesses to find an unknown long-time buried treasure at long range?

Best wishes,
J_P

The detection at some distance is possible (I'm not talking about 1,000 meters, but 10 to 50 meters yes). Is not only by the ions, yes by the "field" around this buried for long time good conductive metals.

Who can be witnesses? Maybe if you or Carl are these witnesses, became automatically in true! And during this you'll take pictures and film, and your pics and film automatically became in true! This is the difference between your true and my(our) true.

Regards

Esteban

[Morgan]

Apparently not:D. What is apparent is the continued list of "ideal" circumstances that must be met so that the LRL will work at all:lol:.
Come on now:razz:, it doesn't find gold unless it has been in the ground for hundreds of years, who knows, maybe it takes thousands or millions of years for it to work properly:D.
Enough of excuses and theoretical nonsense:D, if there is anyone out there that has one that works, prove it:D.
That's right, step up and show the world:D!
Like the saying goes, money talks, bs walks:D.
THE NEW CHALLENGE

1-lets go to old places chose in map (by one person not your friend or my friend),where there is possible to find treasure.

2-I use my LRL PDK & Mineoro DC2008(IR)devices,and prove to you i can find old buried GOLD ,it should be ,not less than 1 Kg,i assume i can find this amount of gold 10 meters or 40 meters distance depending on weather conditions,it doesnt matter if its deep or not.
If ii dont find gold in the place i search ( at least 1Kg of Gold) i challenge you to go there in my presence with Metal Detector and try to find the gold .

3-If you find the 1Kg of Gold (or more) in the place where i search before with my LRL,I give to you in presence of witnesses 25.000 EURO.
If i find with LRL the 1Kg(or biger) treasure in the place we are searching you should give to me 25.000 Euro.
It should be GOLD NOT SILVER and i need sometimes one MD just for pinpoint the more dificoult targets.


Regards

[Esteban]

THE NEW CHALLENGE

1-lets go to old places chose in map (by one person not your friend or my friend),where there is possible to find treasure.

2-I use my LRL PDK & Mineoro DC2008(IR)devices,and prove to you i can find old buried GOLD ,it should be ,not less than 1 Kg,i assume i can find this amount of gold 10 meters or 40 meters distance depending on weather conditions,it doesnt matter if its deep or not.
If ii dont find gold in the place i search ( at least 1Kg of Gold) i challenge you to go there in my presence with Metal Detector and try to find the gold .

3-If you find the 1Kg of Gold (or more) in the place where i search before with my LRL,I give to you in presence of witnesses 25.000 EURO.
If i find with LRL the 1Kg(or biger) treasure in the place we are searching you should give to me 25.000 Euro.
It should be GOLD NOT SILVER and i need sometimes one MD just for pinpoint the more dificoult targets.


Regards

Is very natural that if you don't find the supossed treasure with the pistol, the pistol fails. But if you don't find with regular MD, the treasure don't exist! :lol:

If anybody of both parts found the supossed treasure showed in map, nobody gain? But what happens, for example, if you detect with your pistol and old lamp or sparzed coins with the pistol? Maybe they can convert in believer, but nobody gain nothing!

[Morgan]

Is very natural that if you don't find the supossed treasure with the pistol, the pistol fails. But if you don't find with regular MD, the treasure don't exist! :lol:

If anybody of both parts found the supossed treasure showed in map, nobody gain? But what happens, for example, if you detect with your pistol and old lamp or sparzed coins with the pistol? Maybe they can convert in believer, but nobody gain nothing!
THE NEW CHALLENGE ITS FOR SEARCH GOLD HOARD,NOT LESS THAN 1 Kg !!!
We are talking here about one real TREASURE,medium or big dimentions.
Me or the other person can find during the challenge sparzed coins or objects in gold,nobody wins the price.

[Esteban]

THE NEW CHALLENGE ITS FOR SEARCH GOLD HOARD,NOT LESS THAN 1 Kg !!!
We are talking here about one real TREASURE,medium or big dimentions.
Me or the other person can find during the challenge sparzed coins or objects in gold,nobody wins the price.

Yes, but some objects found with pistol has not gold or not totally gold as these objects found with pistol and easyli weight is 1 Kg! So, those are a kind of treasure too and must be in contract! Sorry, scanner fails and is not totally clear the image!

[Morgan]

Yes, but some objects found with pistol has not gold or not totally gold as these objects found with pistol and easyli weight is 1 Kg! So, those are a kind of treasure too and must be in contract! Sorry, scanner fails and is not totally clear the image!
Thanks for advertement about purity of gold objects.
It should be one hoard or object with 1 Kg or more,made of real GOLD or not less than 50% of Gold. If its only golden or some weak Gold alloy,its not valid for the price reward 25.000 Euro.
I hope Max comes with TGS(super) for the challenge :D

Regards

[Fred]

Thanks for advertement about purity of gold objects.
It should be one hoard or object with 1 Kg or more,made of real GOLD or not less than 50% of Gold. If its only golden or some weak Gold alloy,its not valid for the price reward 25.000 Euro.
I hope Max comes with TGS(super) for the challenge :D

Regards
I wonder who keeps the 1kg (or more) of gold? :lol:
I candidate myself.

[Morgan]

I wonder who keeps the 1kg (or more) of gold? :lol:
I candidate myself.
Hi Fred

Its obvious, finders/keepers !!!
I think its a good challenge. We will not search in acheological places.

Regards

[Max]

Thanks for advertement about purity of gold objects.
It should be one hoard or object with 1 Kg or more,made of real GOLD or not less than 50% of Gold. If its only golden or some weak Gold alloy,its not valid for the price reward 25.000 Euro.
I hope Max comes with TGS(super) for the challenge :D

Regards

:rolleyes: at least if there's something in my dusty TGS range I will find with it! :razz:

I think you'll just jump in your car at some moment talking about some miles away detection to disappear before having too shame!:lol:

Ideas for a new challenge for you ? Try to recover some credibility !? :D

Cause you already lose it all along the way... to LRL.

Kind regards,
Max

[Steve in MS]

THE NEW CHALLENGE

1-lets go to old places chose in map (by one person not your friend or my friend),where there is possible to find treasure.

2-I use my LRL PDK & Mineoro DC2008(IR)devices,and prove to you i can find old buried GOLD ,it should be ,not less than 1 Kg,i assume i can find this amount of gold 10 meters or 40 meters distance depending on weather conditions,it doesnt matter if its deep or not.
If ii dont find gold in the place i search ( at least 1Kg of Gold) i challenge you to go there in my presence with Metal Detector and try to find the gold .

3-If you find the 1Kg of Gold (or more) in the place where i search before with my LRL,I give to you in presence of witnesses 25.000 EURO.
If i find with LRL the 1Kg(or biger) treasure in the place we are searching you should give to me 25.000 Euro.
It should be GOLD NOT SILVER and i need sometimes one MD just for pinpoint the more dificoult targets.


Regards

You miss a very important fact and that is standard metal detectors work:D
no one would deny that. So what they can find or not find is no issue, everyone knows they have limited range, with LRL no limitation to range:D.
There is still no evidence whatsoever that LRL will work, only someones word. You already have Carl's challenge so there is no need for another one to be made up. If LRL is so personal that no proof needs to made to whether it works that is fine, it should be kept personal and not even mentioned publically:D, otherwise the burden of proof rests squarely on the shoulders of those who claim they work, no:D?

[Esteban]

You miss a very important fact and that is standard metal detectors work:D
no one would deny that. So what they can find or not find is no issue, everyone knows they have limited range, with LRL no limitation to range:D.
There is still no evidence whatsoever that LRL will work, only someones word. You already have Carl's challenge so there is no need for another one to be made up. If LRL is so personal that no proof needs to made to whether it works that is fine, it should be kept personal and not even mentioned publically:D, otherwise the burden of proof rests squarely on the shoulders of those who claim they work, no:D?

LRL has limitation in range.

Right! I know if somebody comprobe with his eyes in presence of witnesses, cameras, etc., at the end you don't assume that this work because you consider ignorance this possibility, so as you're doctorate in logic, well, you can't carry on your shoulders!!! :lol: So, you're affraid because can collide with years of negations!!!

[Fred]

...From their literature, they claim ions of the ore move upward through the soil in a column, exactly as is described on the Mineoro website. But they make no claims that these ions become airborne where they can be detected by a modified metal detector. According to the company who pioneered the mobile metal ion business, these upward moving ions become neutralized as a compound within the last 10 cm of reaching the surface of the earth.
"If these atoms are ionized,by radiation or by collision by other particles,electrons are set free.Positively charged metal ions and electrons then can move together in a wind shear.

Fred.

[J_Player]

"If these atoms are ionized,by radiation or by collision by other particles,electrons are set free.Positively charged metal ions and electrons then can move together in a wind shear.Hi Fred,
These ions are not claimed to be ionized by radiation or particle collision by the mobile metal ion company. It appears the metals are ionized by chemical action of the electrolytes in the soil. Most noble metals form a very weak trail of ions, because the nobility of the metal does not permit a strong concentration of ions. Other less noble metals such as zinc, for example form relatively strong columns of ions that are easily measured by soil analysis. Collisions of other particles or radiation may play a part in helping the metals to ionize in the presence of the electrolytes, but it is not thought to be the main mechanism that causes metal to ionize.

According to the mobile metal ion company, these ions of metal become neutralized about 10 CM before they reach up to the surface of the earth, so it is not possible for the ions to see a wind shear (unless there appears a sudden crevice in the earth which allows wind to shear the movement of ions before they have time to neutralize as compounds or salts at the surface). I would presume that the sudden crevice (caused by earthquake or other event) would yield airborne ions in minute concentrations for a few hours until the surface chemicals neutralized them. Thus you have little time to get yer LRL into the crevice and detect the "floating ions" before they all blow away or neutralize. :rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Steve in MS]

LRL has limitation in range.

Right! I know if somebody comprobe with his eyes in presence of witnesses, cameras, etc., at the end you don't assume that this work because you consider ignorance this possibility, so as you're doctorate in logic, well, you can't carry on your shoulders!!! :lol: So, you're affraid because can collide with years of negations!!!

Not sure exactly what you meant to say here Esteban. Let me rephrase here so that you can understand where the skeptics point of view stands.
First of all, if any LRL does work, yours or anyone elses or one for sale by someone then even the more diehard skeptics here would rush out immediately to get one, me included:D.
Now if only yours does work and none of the rest of LRL's don't and you are unwilling to allow others to know how it works, what good is that to anyone else:D?
Now for other products for sale on the market, we generally know exactly what they do and buy those products for the purpose they were designed for, right:D?
As for conventional metal detectors, there usefulness has been proved since very early on, even with moving pictures, even back to the early mine detectors, right:D?
What do we have as far as evidence when it comes to LRL's:D?
I would like nothing better than having an LRL if it could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that it is effective, do you see anything wrong with that kind of thinking? But I would not care to get a LRL if there is little or no evidence available that they do in fact work, anything wrong with that:D?
So you see there is no fear that we are wrong about LRL's not working, mainly because there is no public evidence to support the claim that they do work. Until someone can show us that they work and we see no tangable proof to their usefulness, how can we know they do work:D?
If LRL users want to keep it to themselves, what good is that to anyone else:D? I have noticed here that any serious questions have gone unanswered and instead are given some run-around, that only will fuel the idea even more that LRL's can't be taken seriously, no:D?
So if you have a working LRL or any of the others here have one that works, all you have to do is bring forth some proof that they are effective.
Sorry but we need more than your word or other LRL users, otherwise it remains in the same category of haunted houses, ESP and witchcraft:D.
And no, I don't care to travel around the world in hopes of finding a working LRL when all is needed are some tests to show they work or
just show us that it works:D
and we will all rush out and get ours:D!
Regards.

[J_Player]

OK... there is a way to test any LRL:

We have been told that an LRL must have a long-time buried metal target to detect, (meaning more than 50 years). We also know it is hard to find reliable areas to find long-time buried targets. The problem is most of the fabulous treasures have already been found by LRLs and hidden by the people who found them. Also, these fabulous treasures are probably illegal to search, so the LRL users are not willing to talk much about their illegal finds. So how can we make a good test to see if the LRL really works? There is a way:

In the southern part of the USA there is a large area of land where a civil war was fought more than 200 years ago. During these times, the militia wore clothes that had metal buttons and used firearms which shot lead bullets or balls. There are many thousands of artifacts in the form of metal buttons, buckles, gold bars, silverware, bottle caps and hundreds of other items buried in the ground in these battlefields and encampments that were used by the soldiers of the US civil war. There are so many artifacts that metal detectorists come every year to see how many artifacts can be found in the battlefield areas.

Now think about it... The best relic detectors are VLF metal detectors, which may have a depth sensitivty of maybe 16 inches or more. People using PI machines may get a little more depth to find buried relics. but suppose the deepest metal detector only finds relics as deep as 20 inches. Let's also suppose that not all the relics have been found, whether they are deep or not. Consider... there are more relics found in these battlefields every year at shallow depths, and deeper depths, which proves they have not all been found.

Now, if an LRL really works to find long-time buried metals, then it will certainly find some of the civil war relics that were missed by the metal detectorists. But wait.... In areas where the metal detectorists have recovered all targets in their range, there are still deeper targets that they could not see because of the limtations of their detectors. This means that an LRL can still find the treasures that were missed by conventional detectors deep in the ground as well as the shallow items that were missed. Remember... these items are buried more than 200 years, so no LRL should have any problem finding them.

So here is the challenge that can prove your LRL can work or not:
Take your alleged working LRL to the battle areas of the north-south civil war lands in the USA and use it to find buried metal items with witnesses watching and filming your recoveries. You can check the targets with a conventional metal detector to see what your LRL missed (if anything).

Can you do this with your LRL? I think not. So prove me wrong!

Best

[Fred]

Hi Fred,
These ions are not claimed to be ionized by radiation or particle collision by the mobile metal ion company. It appears the metals are ionized by chemical action of the electrolytes in the soil. J_P
Hi JP,
The fact that they just disapears 10cm below surface is a bit suspicious. Could it be that the ions migrates towards te surface,then get hit by radiations, depending of their wavelenghts, at depht up to 10cm, getting ionized and eventually dissolve in the air?
I mean: what happens to a ion below surface?
If they dont get into the air, they probably can create an anomaly in the ground and thus in the natural voltage potencial above surface.

Regards,
Fred.

[Esteban]

Not sure exactly what you meant to say here Esteban. Let me rephrase here so that you can understand where the skeptics point of view stands.
First of all, if any LRL does work, yours or anyone elses or one for sale by someone then even the more diehard skeptics here would rush out immediately to get one, me included:D.
Now if only yours does work and none of the rest of LRL's don't and you are unwilling to allow others to know how it works, what good is that to anyone else:D?
Now for other products for sale on the market, we generally know exactly what they do and buy those products for the purpose they were designed for, right:D?
As for conventional metal detectors, there usefulness has been proved since very early on, even with moving pictures, even back to the early mine detectors, right:D?
What do we have as far as evidence when it comes to LRL's:D?
I would like nothing better than having an LRL if it could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that it is effective, do you see anything wrong with that kind of thinking? But I would not care to get a LRL if there is little or no evidence available that they do in fact work, anything wrong with that:D?
So you see there is no fear that we are wrong about LRL's not working, mainly because there is no public evidence to support the claim that they do work. Until someone can show us that they work and we see no tangable proof to their usefulness, how can we know they do work:D?
If LRL users want to keep it to themselves, what good is that to anyone else:D? I have noticed here that any serious questions have gone unanswered and instead are given some run-around, that only will fuel the idea even more that LRL's can't be taken seriously, no:D?
So if you have a working LRL or any of the others here have one that works, all you have to do is bring forth some proof that they are effective.
Sorry but we need more than your word or other LRL users, otherwise it remains in the same category of haunted houses, ESP and witchcraft:D.
And no, I don't care to travel around the world in hopes of finding a working LRL when all is needed are some tests to show they work or
just show us that it works:D
and we will all rush out and get ours:D!
Regards.


If you have a workable system for to detect at certain/possible distance, sure, you'll post here for to test by all the world. :lol: :razz:

[Esteban]

OK... there is a way to test any LRL:

We have been told that an LRL must have a long-time buried metal target to detect, (meaning more than 50 years). We also know it is hard to find reliable areas to find long-time buried targets. The problem is most of the fabulous treasures have already been found by LRLs and hidden by the people who found them. Also, these fabulous treasures are probably illegal to search, so the LRL users are not willing to talk much about their illegal finds. So how can we make a good test to see if the LRL really works? There is a way:

In the southern part of the USA there is a large area of land where a civil war was fought more than 200 years ago. During these times, the militia wore clothes that had metal buttons and used firearms which shot lead bullets or balls. There are many thousands of artifacts in the form of metal buttons, buckles, gold bars, silverware, bottle caps and hundreds of other items buried in the ground in these battlefields and encampments that were used by the soldiers of the US civil war. There are so many artifacts that metal detectorists come every year to see how many artifacts can be found in the battlefield areas.

Now think about it... The best relic detectors are VLF metal detectors, which may have a depth sensitivty of maybe 16 inches or more. People using PI machines may get a little more depth to find buried relics. but suppose the deepest metal detector only finds relics as deep as 20 inches. Let's also suppose that not all the relics have been found, whether they are deep or not. Consider... there are more relics found in these battlefields every year at shallow depths, and deeper depths, which proves they have not all been found.

Now, if an LRL really works to find long-time buried metals, then it will certainly find some of the civil war relics that were missed by the metal detectorists. But wait.... In areas where the metal detectorists have recovered all targets in their range, there are still deeper targets that they could not see because of the limtations of their detectors. This means that an LRL can still find the treasures that were missed by conventional detectors deep in the ground as well as the shallow items that were missed. Remember... these items are buried more than 200 years, so no LRL should have any problem finding them.

So here is the challenge that can prove your LRL can work or not:
Take your alleged working LRL to the battle areas of the north-south civil war lands in the USA and use it to find buried metal items with witnesses watching and filming your recoveries. You can check the targets with a conventional metal detector to see what your LRL missed (if anything).

Can you do this with your LRL? I think not. So prove me wrong!

Best

Witnesses... maybe there are many but isn't enough, only few can be reliable? and other (include me) lie?

No need to probe in prohibited sites. You are right about test sites, I do test in battlefield too. This kind of copper coin (I found 34 in the same place, battlefield. Here just 14 because I bury 4 for test field and 16 was distributed to friends and landlord). I found with an absoption system pistol at some meters.

[Esteban]

This kind of object (cuted coin and other object don't know what is) was found at few meters, only 3, with absorptive system.

[Theseus]

This kind of object (cuted coin and other object don't know what is) was found at few meters, only 3, with absoptive system.

Did you use a conventional metal detector to pin-point and retrieve such a small target?

[Esteban]

Did you use a conventional metal detector to pin-point and retrieve such a small target?

Yes, main when target extends the angle. This occurs with absorptive and antenna types and also deppend of kind of circuit used. Some telescopic antenna system pinpoint very well, but rectangular or circular aluminium loop not very well. This pistol is for medium range (only some meters) and the search head is used as MD (is part of a MD) for to find the unburied item mixed in the sand. Another based on oscillator (can be resonance-off) is more precisse than absorptive.

[Steve in MS]

Witnesses... maybe there are many but isn't enough, only few can be reliable? and other (include me) lie?

No need to probe in prohibited sites. You are right about test sites, I do test in battlefield too. This kind of copper coin (I found 34 in the same place, battlefield. Here just 14 because I bury 4 for test field and 16 was distributed to friends and landlord). I found with an absoption system pistol at some meters.

So LRL works on other non-ferrous metals, not only gold.
Some have given the impression that LRL only finds gold:D.

[Max]

So LRL works on other non-ferrous metals, not only gold.
Some have given the impression that LRL only finds gold:D.

If we wanna use immagination... it could also point at something say... Angelina Jolie! :lol:

That way could seems something smart rod ! :D

Or not ?

[Morgan]

OK... there is a way to test any LRL:

We have been told that an LRL must have a long-time buried metal target to detect, (meaning more than 50 years). We also know it is hard to find reliable areas to find long-time buried targets. The problem is most of the fabulous treasures have already been found by LRLs and hidden by the people who found them. Also, these fabulous treasures are probably illegal to search, so the LRL users are not willing to talk much about their illegal finds. So how can we make a good test to see if the LRL really works? There is a way:

In the southern part of the USA there is a large area of land where a civil war was fought more than 200 years ago. During these times, the militia wore clothes that had metal buttons and used firearms which shot lead bullets or balls. There are many thousands of artifacts in the form of metal buttons, buckles, gold bars, silverware, bottle caps and hundreds of other items buried in the ground in these battlefields and encampments that were used by the soldiers of the US civil war. There are so many artifacts that metal detectorists come every year to see how many artifacts can be found in the battlefield areas.

Now think about it... The best relic detectors are VLF metal detectors, which may have a depth sensitivty of maybe 16 inches or more. People using PI machines may get a little more depth to find buried relics. but suppose the deepest metal detector only finds relics as deep as 20 inches. Let's also suppose that not all the relics have been found, whether they are deep or not. Consider... there are more relics found in these battlefields every year at shallow depths, and deeper depths, which proves they have not all been found.

Now, if an LRL really works to find long-time buried metals, then it will certainly find some of the civil war relics that were missed by the metal detectorists. But wait.... In areas where the metal detectorists have recovered all targets in their range, there are still deeper targets that they could not see because of the limtations of their detectors. This means that an LRL can still find the treasures that were missed by conventional detectors deep in the ground as well as the shallow items that were missed. Remember... these items are buried more than 200 years, so no LRL should have any problem finding them.

So here is the challenge that can prove your LRL can work or not:
Take your alleged working LRL to the battle areas of the north-south civil war lands in the USA and use it to find buried metal items with witnesses watching and filming your recoveries. You can check the targets with a conventional metal detector to see what your LRL missed (if anything).

Can you do this with your LRL? I think not. So prove me wrong!

Best
That´s great:cool:

Next hollydays i travel to AMERICA :cheers:Lets find some civil war relics !!!

[Qiaozhi]

If we wanna use immagination... it could also point at something say... Angelina Jolie! :lol:

That way could seems something smart rod ! :D

Or not ?
If your LRL points at AJ, then it's clearly a trick of the mind. :lol:

[J_Player]

That´s great:cool:
Next hollydays i travel to AMERICA :cheers:Lets find some civil war relics !!!Excellent idea!
Carl-NC lives near the places where there are civil war relics. He will be interested to see your LRL find treasures at long distances, and take movies of it working so he can post the results he sees in the forum.

It will be a good idea to announce the time and place where you will come to find civil war relics. There are many other forum members who live in that area who will be interested to watch. If your PDK can really find treasures at long distances more than 3 meters, then you can have many people to watch and make movies, so they will all say the same as you say. This is much better than to only hear your words. You can also post these movies on youtube so we can all see what happened during the relic hunt with the PDK.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Clondike Clad]

Excellent idea!
Carl-NC lives near the places where there are civil war relics. He will be interested to see your LRL find treasures at long distances, and take movies of it working so he can post the results he sees in the forum.

It will be a good idea to announce the time and place where you will come to find civil war relics. There are many other forum members who live in that area who will be interested to watch. If your PDK can really find treasures at long distances more than 3 meters, then you can have many people to watch and make movies, so they will all say the same as you say. This is much better than to only hear your words. You can also post these movies on youtube so we can all see what happened during the relic hunt with the PDK.

Best wishes,
J_P
Why not go for Carl's CASH and put that on Utube.
If the detector works it should be eazy to pick uo 25k have a good time in NYC.:D You can relic hunt after taking Carl's CASH ,Just think $25,000 .

[J_Player]

Why not go for Carl's CASH and put that on Utube.
If the detector works it should be eazy to pick uo 25k have a good time in NYC.:D You can relic hunt after taking Carl's CASH ,Just think $25,000 .Ahh... but we already know the reason not to go for the cash. Morgan has told us he is afraid that his Pistoldetector will be confiscated if he wins the prize. So he does not want to attempt to win the prize.

But if he goes treasure hunting in the civil war relic areas with a large congregation of observers, he will be safe, because the crowd of observers will not permit anyone to take away his pistoldetector. The average treasure hunter from the South has great respect for the propriety of a person's personal property, and takes a dim view of anyone conducting foul play on their turf. I already have visions of some big dudes piling on top of an idiot who attempts to take away Morgan's pistoldetector, and pounding the idiot about the head until he is senseless. However, I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to try this in the southern USA.

Now that I think about it, It seems like Morgan would be safe attempting to win the $25,000 prize, because it will be conducted in the same general area. If you read the rules of the contest, it specifies that any individual who attempts to win the prize will not be required to show anyone the insides of their LRL or to have the LRL confiscated. The only inspection of the LRL is is a visual inspection of the outside it to see that it does not use methods of traditional metal detection, magnetometry, or radiation detection, so the test is limited to the LRL only. The rules state: "Proctor may visually inspect the locating equipment, but will not open it". I would think the people watching this test in North Carolina would be very careful to see that nobody violated this or any other rule in the test.

But it is up to Morgan to decide what he wants to do on his vacation, not the skeptics of this forum. I think if he decides to look for relics in the civil war battlefields, he will find there are many long-time buried objects in these areas such as brass buttons, belt buckles, musket balls and numerous other metal items... maybe even buried gold bars intended to be used by the armies to buy supplies. :eek:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

Why not go for Carl's CASH and put that on Utube.
If the detector works it should be eazy to pick uo 25k have a good time in NYC.:D You can relic hunt after taking Carl's CASH ,Just think $25,000 .
I dont agree to go for Carl´s cash.
First of all,the PDK only works as LRL with long time ago buried metals,not with fresh GOLD samples.
The Civil War relics looks great,for searching with PDK.

[Max]

I dont agree to go for Carl´s cash.
First of all,the PDK only works as LRL with long time ago buried metals,not with fresh GOLD samples.
The Civil War relics looks great,for searching with PDK.

like the gold I see in your avatar! Sure! :lol:

[Esteban]

So LRL works on other non-ferrous metals, not only gold.
Some have given the impression that LRL only finds gold:D.

I never claim that pistol detector finds only gold. Always I wrote here this works for good conductive metal. Even if you design a pistol for only gold and silver, a couple of bronze or copper coins will be detected. This is not problem. The important is to detect good conductive metals at certain distance. :razz:

Regards

Esteban

[Esteban]

A person wich built an absorptive type based some basic circuit I suggest him, wrote me 30 September 2008. When you move the pistol, signal income as AC even is target acts as a battery (DC).

[Esteban]

Ahh... but we already know the reason not to go for the cash. Morgan has told us he is afraid that his Pistoldetector will be confiscated if he wins the prize. So he does not want to attempt to win the prize.

But if he goes treasure hunting in the civil war relic areas with a large congregation of observers, he will be safe, because the crowd of observers will not permit anyone to take away his pistoldetector. The average treasure hunter from the South has great respect for the propriety of a person's personal property, and takes a dim view of anyone conducting foul play on their turf. I already have visions of some big dudes piling on top of an idiot who attempts to take away Morgan's pistoldetector, and pounding the idiot about the head until he is senseless. However, I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to try this in the southern USA.

Now that I think about it, It seems like Morgan would be safe attempting to win the $25,000 prize, because it will be conducted in the same general area. If you read the rules of the contest, it specifies that any individual who attempts to win the prize will not be required to show anyone the insides of their LRL or to have the LRL confiscated. The only inspection of the LRL is is a visual inspection of the outside it to see that it does not use methods of traditional metal detection, magnetometry, or radiation detection, so the test is limited to the LRL only. The rules state: "Proctor may visually inspect the locating equipment, but will not open it". I would think the people watching this test in North Carolina would be very careful to see that nobody violated this or any other rule in the test.

But it is up to Morgan to decide what he wants to do on his vacation, not the skeptics of this forum. I think if he decides to look for relics in the civil war battlefields, he will find there are many long-time buried objects in these areas such as brass buttons, belt buckles, musket balls and numerous other metal items... maybe even buried gold bars intended to be used by the armies to buy supplies. :eek:

Best wishes,
J_P

At the end, the prize is only for LRL RODS user or what!!!

[Esteban]

Excellent idea!
Carl-NC lives near the places where there are civil war relics. He will be interested to see your LRL find treasures at long distances, and take movies of it working so he can post the results he sees in the forum.

It will be a good idea to announce the time and place where you will come to find civil war relics. There are many other forum members who live in that area who will be interested to watch. If your PDK can really find treasures at long distances more than 3 meters, then you can have many people to watch and make movies, so they will all say the same as you say. This is much better than to only hear your words. You can also post these movies on youtube so we can all see what happened during the relic hunt with the PDK.

Best wishes,
J_P

The same pictures in USA take in the 80s I was posted. This team found great quantity of items. I understand you're the only qualyfied witnesses! If you really are scientific-mind, so investigate whats happens begining the 80s in Texas, specially Fortworth, etc. And was TWO TRIPS, 81 and 84 (maybe 85). DO THE 1,000 WITNESSES ARE INVALID, ONLY YOU AND CARL? DO YOU ARE BLIND OR WHAT? Or you cannot believe was made in South America since 1959?

Morgan: If you go to USA, lets they pay your tickets and other expenses. You was very benign. Remember? :nono:

[Esteban]

Maybe you have an idea toward wich location they drive

[Esteban]

A simple proof! Do Carl can proof he has the enough found? Do he can post here a bank document proof or similar? But, at the end, we don't believe in pics as you! :lol:

[Fred]

Why not go for Carl's CASH and put that on Utube.
If the detector works it should be eazy to pick uo 25k have a good time in NYC.:D You can relic hunt after taking Carl's CASH ,Just think $25,000 .
If not for the cash, the guy doing it will be a HERO , known not only in the detectorists world but also as a pioneer in discovering new physical evidences....

[Max]

The same pictures in USA take in the 80s I was posted. This team found great quantity of items. I understand you're the only qualyfied witnesses! If you really are scientific-mind, so investigate whats happens begining the 80s in Texas, specially Fortworth, etc. And was TWO TRIPS, 81 and 84 (maybe 85). DO THE 1,000 WITNESSES ARE INVALID, ONLY YOU AND CARL? DO YOU ARE BLIND OR WHAT? Or you cannot believe was made in South America since 1959?

Morgan: If you go to USA, lets they pay your tickets and other expenses. You was very benign. Remember? :nono:

Hi,
it's not about qualified witnesses... but scientifical proofs. The witnesses in the picture could also be serious people but this prove nothing.

The self-deception process that's probably related to LRLs shows and demonstrations is very tricky thing...

Which knowledge they had ? Which kind of tests were at that time ?

Double blind ? On sure, prepared location ?

No. That was all about swinging the LRL and found a coin ? What if the coin was found with the aid of a normal MD ? What if was found just by coincidence in some old battlefield ?

I know of battlefields where you dig, with just hands and nothing more... and find metallic stuff... whatever... no need of any rod!

So... it's the seriousness and reliability of method first of all, that make the tests reliable and trustable... not people involved that can realize by trick of mind something that actually isn't.

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

If not for the cash, the guy doing it will be a HERO , known not only in the detectorists world but also as a pioneer in discovering new physical evidences....

HERO? Physical evidences discovery for other many years ago? I have papers since first 1958 experiment, so, why HERO?
If Morgan can probe it, will be by a pistol not designed by him... No, they are behind another think... :nono: MORGAN. DON'T BE STUPID! YOU WAS BENIGN ONCE, REMEMBER!!!

[Esteban]

Hi,
it's not about qualified witnesses... but scientifical proofs. The witnesses in the picture could also be serious people but this prove nothing.

The self-deception process that's probably related to LRLs shows and demonstrations is very tricky thing...

Which knowledge they had ? Which kind of tests were at that time ?

Double blind ? On sure, prepared location ?

No. That was all about swinging the LRL and found a coin ? What if the coin was found with the aid of a normal MD ? What if was found just by coincidence in some old battlefield ?

I know of battlefields where you dig, with just hands and nothing more... and find metallic stuff... whatever... no need of any rod!

So... it's the seriousness and reliability of method first of all, that make the tests reliable and trustable... not people involved that can realize by trick of mind something that actually isn't.

Kind regards,
Max

So, scientifical proof only can be made them and a few witnesses... also curious. The pistol is made under SCIENTIFIC process, under SCIENTIFIC principles, is not a trick of magic or similar.

If they are real scientific, can start to investigate in his own country... there are 1,000 witnesses, also person who lost valuable jewels and was recovery by the pistol... The negators will be able for to do investigations, for example, in Texas... Or do you believe that the inventor and persons involved in the team planted 1,000 targets in 1,000 different locations? Let the negators made a small effort and investigate it... Is more easy to negate...

[Esteban]

MORGAN. DON'T BE STUPID! YOU WAS BENIGN ONCE, REMEMBER!!! :nono:

[Fred]

HERO? Physical evidences discovery for other many years ago? I have papers since first 1958 experiment, so, why HERO?
If Morgan can probe it, will be by a pistol not designed by him... No, they are behind another think... :nono: MORGAN. DON'T BE STUPID! YOU WAS BENIGN ONCE, REMEMBER!!!
Hi Esteban.
It is a fact: the one who will prove it in front of camera,( if ...) and retrieve something using it, will be a hero. Doesn´t matter if the idea come from somewhere else : this is how story is made, remember ?
And this can be appealing for some.
Regards,
Fred.

[Esteban]

Hi Esteban.
It is a fact: the one who will prove it in front of camera,( if ...) and retrieve something using it, will be a hero. Doesn´t matter if the idea come from somewhere else : this is how story is made, remember ?
And this can be appealing for some.
Regards,
Fred.

Now your camera is the true and others no? Remember the history of Vivien Thomas, pioneer in heart surgery. He demonstrate in FRONT camera, but was NEGRO! I can demonstrate from here with a camera, but, of course, is not valuable, only the yours!:nono: Remember that I post a link with a film when was found at distance gold with pistol, in YouTube. So, they are HERO!

http://www.heart-valve-surgery.com/heart-surgery-blog/2008/06/07/heart-surgery-pioneer-vivien-thomas-johns-hopkins/


Regards

Esteban

[Qiaozhi]

A person wich built an absorptive type based some basic circuit I suggest him, wrote me 30 September 2008. When you move the pistol, signal income as AC even is target acts as a battery (DC).
Can you "suggest" the circuit to us as well? We will need a basic design in order to investigate further.

[Fred]

Now your camera is the true and others no? Remember the history of Vivien Thomas, pioneer in heart surgery. He demonstrate in FRONT camera, but was NEGRO! I can demonstrate from here with a camera, but, of course, is not valuable, only the yours!:nono: Remember that I post a link with a film when was found at distance gold with pistol, in YouTube. So, they are HERO!

http://www.heart-valve-surgery.com/heart-surgery-blog/2008/06/07/heart-surgery-pioneer-vivien-thomas-johns-hopkins/


Regards

Esteban
Esteban,
Please understand that i am not aproving or saying it is good , just it this the way things happen, just like your heart surgery guy ,Wright brothers,etc.
They guys you refer at may deserve to be heroes, but i have never hard about them, so they are no heroes.And if you have a video showing it, i have never seen it: you should publish it.
Also, i have never filmed anything, and i dont want to be a hero:i am not so sure this is a good thing.And believe me, i respect you claims as much as anyone´s else.
My camera is a good as your, just bigger :lol:

[J_Player]

If you really are scientific-mind, so investigate whats happens begining the 80s in Texas, specially Fortworth, etc. And was TWO TRIPS, 81 and 84 (maybe 85). DO THE 1,000 WITNESSES ARE INVALID, ONLY YOU AND CARL? DO YOU ARE BLIND OR WHAT? Or you cannot believe was made in South America since 1959?This is a great story, but for people who read this forum today, it is only a story. There are many stories from many years ago which are true only for the people who saw them. The real story that can be believed today is the story we can see now with our own eyes, not some story about witnesses from 30 years ago. What is the reason we cannot see this LRL finding treasure today?

The bottom line is: If this LRL could find treasure 30 years ago, then it can find treasure today. There is no reason to read papers from 30 years ago to believe when a simple test to see the LRL find treasure today will prove the story is true or not. Is it possible the story from 30 years ago is not really true, and a test for this LRL today will also fail?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Steve in MS]

A person wich built an absorptive type based some basic circuit I suggest him, wrote me 30 September 2008. When you move the pistol, signal income as AC even is target acts as a battery (DC).

Esteban, I suppose this is not a pivot point type device?
I think you will see there is interest in your invention.
Would you care to tell us more about it?
This is genuine interest on my part and probably many more here.
Regards.

[Esteban]

Esteban, I suppose this is not a pivot point type device?
I think you will see there is interest in your invention.
Would you care to tell us more about it?
This is genuine interest on my part and probably many more here.
Regards.

Hi

Is no pivot, do you refer type LRL rod wich pivots? No, this is not the case.

You can use different kind of circuit, any audio amp can do the job with the type of antenna. And I prefer round or rectangular aluminium loop. A core toroid with few ohms coil is part of it, but this is not for much distance. Small items give few detections (I presume the old target acts as a battery and when you "attack" you consume the few volts or milivolts around him!).

The important here is that you detect by what the "phenomenon" can provide to you.

I'll do general indications, but reffinements deppend of you.

[Max]

Hi

Is no pivot, do you refer type LRL rod wich pivots? No, this is not the case.

You can use different kind of circuit, any audio amp can do the job with the type of antenna. And I prefer round or rectangular aluminium loop. A core toroid with few ohms coil is part of it, but this is not for much distance. Small items give few detections (I presume the old target acts as a battery and when you "attack" you consume the few volts or milivolts around him!).

The important here is that you detect by what the "phenomenon" can provide to you.

I'll do general indications, but reffinements deppend of you.

So any failure could be related to his skills or bad understanding of how to make it properly... :lol:

Right ?

[Esteban]

So any failure could be related to his skills or bad understanding of how to make it properly... :lol:

Right ?

Detecting big treasure is not problem by an absorptive antenna type. The problem is collect small item at some distance. I know a person that found medium Jesuitic treasure with it and he told was some difficult to centrate causes the "big signal". :razz:

[hillman]

hi to all hi esteban and morgan how i know if my detector mineoro 2008 is with IR or not ? thanks.

[Esteban]

hi to all hi esteban and morgan how i know if my detector mineoro 2008 is with IR or not ? thanks.

As IR can't trespassing the black tube, only opening it you can check. I know that 2008 is with IR. This is the IR inside.

[Esteban]

This is a kind of absorptive antenna, no many interferences collect it, but you can't use near TV on and other strong magnetic sources, also high voltage lines.

[Esteban]

Some tips...

[hillman]

thanks esteban ,so ihave to check it.;)

[Esteban]

This not check. I think if connect the shield part of the coaxial to negative and use the central cable as the loop, maybe can be more immune to interferences, ideas, ideas...

[Esteban]

General and simple system.

[Morgan]

like the gold I see in your avatar! Sure! :lol:
LETS CHANGE THE GOLD IN MY AVATAR FOR THE MACHINE GUN IN YOUR AVATAR. I WILL NEED THIS FOR MY PROTECTION WHEN GO TO LRL CHALLENGE IN AMERICA !!!
:cool:

[Morgan]

The same pictures in USA take in the 80s I was posted. This team found great quantity of items. I understand you're the only qualyfied witnesses! If you really are scientific-mind, so investigate whats happens begining the 80s in Texas, specially Fortworth, etc. And was TWO TRIPS, 81 and 84 (maybe 85). DO THE 1,000 WITNESSES ARE INVALID, ONLY YOU AND CARL? DO YOU ARE BLIND OR WHAT? Or you cannot believe was made in South America since 1959?

Morgan: If you go to USA, lets they pay your tickets and other expenses. You was very benign. Remember? :nono:

Wath is inside the box Esteban,did they found some treasure?

Regards

[Steve in MS]

General and simple system.

Esteban, I see you have a closed loop and open loop, which do you prefer to use? Is that closed loop solid aluminum that you are showing?
This may be a dumb question but Have you tried part of an TV antenna for the loop?
Does it pickup iron, say larger stuff than nails?
Regards.

[Max]

LETS CHANGE THE GOLD IN MY AVATAR FOR THE MACHINE GUN IN YOUR AVATAR. I WILL NEED THIS FOR MY PROTECTION WHEN GO TO LRL CHALLENGE IN AMERICA !!!
:cool:

Uhm I will make a real bargain ! :lol:

Don't you know actual "price" of an old AK (or clone) is around 5$ today ?

Well... you'll not find at beverage store... but in some places (ops) they are really common.... one or two in each home... :shocked:

Or your gold is fake ? :rolleyes:

Of course... I have no AK... this is just a picture...:D

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Esteban, I see you have a closed loop and open loop, which do you prefer to use? Is that closed loop solid aluminum that you are showing?
This may be a dumb question but Have you tried part of an TV antenna for the loop?
Does it pickup iron, say larger stuff than nails?
Regards.

Hi,
it's easy. I think the idea is picking up some electromagnetic anomaly.

The idea behind ? What I think...

The short turn + toroid coil act like an IB transformer, the e.g. flux that chain with the loop generates a very small eddy current flowing in the closed aluminium turn. Normally the coil on toroid is about insensitive to the background noise cause the magnetic flux at toroid is inside the toroid... but when the eddy current flows inside it the toroid coil will get some coupled magnetic flux cause of flux lines that concentrate at inner side of it, thus offering some (limited) coupling with the signal at antenna loop.

It's like in some directive rf meters... just at right direction you can spot the emission cause of the geometric properties of loop coil and lose coupling of receiver transformer (right Esteban ?).

The second one, open loop is similar, but... instead of using magnetic coupling between the eddy current (and its magnetic field) and the receiver toroid core, you have the aluminium loop acting as a voltage generator (only ac will work) connected to the primary of a transformer (for impedance separation)... now... if a voltage will develop at aluminium turn you'll get a scaled value of that at output of transformer depending on turns ratio there...with hi impedance separation between loop and load.

Also this approach is common in old rf locating stuff... and meters.

The first approach I think is more easy cause you don't need perfect match of impedance required to get it work... the second is probably sensitive to the transformer construction more than one could think.

Now the problem is (one way or another): does it work ??? :lol: Could this approach pay as LRL ??? :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Morgan]

Hi,
it's easy. I think the idea is picking up some electromagnetic anomaly.

The idea behind ? What I think...

The short turn + toroid coil act like an IB transformer, the e.g. flux that chain with the loop generates a very small eddy current flowing in the closed aluminium turn. Normally the coil on toroid is about insensitive to the background noise cause the magnetic flux at toroid is inside the toroid... but when the eddy current flows inside it the toroid coil will get some coupled magnetic flux cause of flux lines that concentrate at inner side of it, thus offering some (limited) coupling with the signal at antenna loop.

It's like in some directive rf meters... just at right direction you can spot the emission cause of the geometric properties of loop coil and lose coupling of receiver transformer (right Esteban ?).

The second one, open loop is similar, but... instead of using magnetic coupling between the eddy current (and its magnetic field) and the receiver toroid core, you have the aluminium loop acting as a voltage generator (only ac will work) connected to the primary of a transformer (for impedance separation)... now... if a voltage will develop at aluminium turn you'll get a scaled value of that at output of transformer depending on turns ratio there...with hi impedance separation between loop and load.

Also this approach is common in old rf locating stuff... and meters.

The first approach I think is more easy cause you don't need perfect match of impedance required to get it work... the second is probably sensitive to the transformer construction more than one could think.

Now the problem is (one way or another): does it work ??? :lol: Could this approach pay as LRL ??? :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max
Hi Max
You become more smart about LRL technology!!!:shocked::shocked::shocked:

Of course it works...

[Esteban]

Esteban, I see you have a closed loop and open loop, which do you prefer to use? Is that closed loop solid aluminum that you are showing?
This may be a dumb question but Have you tried part of an TV antenna for the loop?
Does it pickup iron, say larger stuff than nails?
Regards.

I prefer closed loop. Is solid aluminium, no TV antenna part. At this time this not pick iron or nails if you use low ohms in coil. Loops are made from aluminium solid pieces like these:

[Esteban]

Hi Max
You become more smart about LRL technology!!!:shocked::shocked::shocked:

Of course it works...

Of course!!!

[Esteban]

Hi,
it's easy. I think the idea is picking up some electromagnetic anomaly.

The idea behind ? What I think...

The short turn + toroid coil act like an IB transformer, the e.g. flux that chain with the loop generates a very small eddy current flowing in the closed aluminium turn. Normally the coil on toroid is about insensitive to the background noise cause the magnetic flux at toroid is inside the toroid... but when the eddy current flows inside it the toroid coil will get some coupled magnetic flux cause of flux lines that concentrate at inner side of it, thus offering some (limited) coupling with the signal at antenna loop.

It's like in some directive rf meters... just at right direction you can spot the emission cause of the geometric properties of loop coil and lose coupling of receiver transformer (right Esteban ?).

The second one, open loop is similar, but... instead of using magnetic coupling between the eddy current (and its magnetic field) and the receiver toroid core, you have the aluminium loop acting as a voltage generator (only ac will work) connected to the primary of a transformer (for impedance separation)... now... if a voltage will develop at aluminium turn you'll get a scaled value of that at output of transformer depending on turns ratio there...with hi impedance separation between loop and load.

Also this approach is common in old rf locating stuff... and meters.

The first approach I think is more easy cause you don't need perfect match of impedance required to get it work... the second is probably sensitive to the transformer construction more than one could think.

Now the problem is (one way or another): does it work ??? :lol: Could this approach pay as LRL ??? :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

Yes, those good conductive metals buried from long time causes an electromagnetic anomaly, and maybe the magnetic field of Earth distort a little here. Yes, I think electric and magnetic anomaly = electromagnetic.

Yes, works!!! :razz:

[Esteban]

Here some kinds. The black (with plastic) is aerial for distribute TV signals cable (gross coaxial). The round has the core inside the telephonic plug.

[Morgan]

Yes, those good conductive metals buried from long time causes an electromagnetic anomaly, and maybe the magnetic field of Earth distort a little here. Yes, I think electric and magnetic anomaly = electromagnetic.

Yes, works!!! :razz:
Hi Esteban
This LRL with large antenna react only in big(not less than 10x10cm) hig conductive targets buried long time ago,a few meters distance. It works with BFO oscilator + ions detector.I want to put this for better reaction of small objects.
I dont have probleme to put schematic of this LRL here in the forum,no need closed forum for this,if you or others want i can put,for better understanding of LRL and the Phenomena of the eletromagnetic fields.
This device react strongly to the electrostatic energies.

Regards6746

[Esteban]

This deppend of you. But better if you obtain permission of constructor.

Regards

Esteban

[Morgan]

This deppend of you. But better if you obtain permission of constructor.

Regards

Esteban
Hi Esteban

But this constructor is a friend with limited knolendge about LRL,he know the phenomena exist,and construct this device based on some informations,of course i have his permition. This device need some improvments to work perfect. If its not boring ,you can have a look on schematic.
I can put the schematic. I think you can advice me about better size of antenna or change some component values. The electronics inside are very simple,you can build one of this for you easily. its good also for LRL beginners. I´m sure no Heathkit inside. The circuit is unique BFO+ION generator.:shocked::shocked:
I have problems with this one because not stable...But it works with the phenomena.The box should be constructed in wood.

Regards

[Morgan]

This deppend of you. But better if you obtain permission of constructor.

Regards

Esteban
And let the skeptics laugh with this one LRL also...:rolleyes:

[Esteban]

And let the skeptics laugh with this one LRL also...:rolleyes:

:lol:

This is unstable because your BFO is unstable, but with a very good BFO you can do more.

[Morgan]

This deppend of you. But better if you obtain permission of constructor.

Regards

Esteban
Device looks heavy but in reality its ligthweigth. It as ionic antenna made of aluminium . One big problem its because it as one internal trimmer from radio,and it needs most of the times adjustments,its the MicroHenry selector. I´m sure you can advice me some other kind of trimmer,to use outside the wood box...
The other problem its when working near power lines,beeps everywere,much more than Mineoro models.
Pinpoint also is dificult with this one...

Regards

[Esteban]

Device looks heavy but in reality its ligthweigth. It as ionic antenna made of aluminium . One big problem its because it as one internal trimmer from radio,and it needs most of the times adjustments,its the MicroHenry selector. I´m sure you can advice me some other kind of trimmer,to use outside the wood box...
The other problem its when working near power lines,beeps everywere,much more than Mineoro models.
Pinpoint also is dificult with this one...

Regards

Those troubles can be solved, and if power lines are problems, well, discard these places in your searchings!

[Morgan]

:lol:

This is unstable because your BFO is unstable, but with a very good BFO you can do more.
Ok,Esteban,during this week i ask to my friend the schematic.
Realy,no need closed forum for this one:nono:

But it works with the phenomena...

[Esteban]

Ok,Esteban,during this week i ask to my friend the schematic.
Realy,no need closed forum for this one:nono:

But it works with the phenomena...

Of course, no deppend of me.

[Morgan]

Of course, no deppend of me.
I can see in some of photos you put in this forum,that Alonso construct very similar device ,but only in box&Antenna design,i think...

[Esteban]

I can see in some of photos you put in this forum,that Alonso construct very similar device ,but only in box&Antenna design,i think...

Yes, but I don't want publish Alonso's devices by myself.

[Morgan]

6747I can see in some of photos you put in this forum,that Alonso construct very similar device ,but only in box&Antenna design,i think...

[Morgan]

I can see in some of photos you put in this forum,that Alonso construct very similar device ,but only in box&Antenna design,i think...
6748

[Morgan]

6749

67506748
You can see,very similar design with Alonso device.
But can you tell me how it works this Yellow LRL.? Did you already try in field tests? It as some ferrite inside?

Regards

[Esteban]

6749

6750
You can see,very similar design with Alonso device.
But can you tell me how it works this Yellow LRL.? Did you already try in field tests? It as some ferrite inside?

Regards

No comment!!!

[Morgan]

No comment!!!
No comment ?!!

You mean this Alonso LRL its a CRAP ???

Or maybe you dont want to talk about it.

[Qiaozhi]

Hi Esteban
This LRL with large antenna react only in big(not less than 10x10cm) hig conductive targets buried long time ago,a few meters distance. It works with BFO oscilator + ions detector.I want to put this for better reaction of small objects.
I dont have probleme to put schematic of this LRL here in the forum,no need closed forum for this,if you or others want i can put,for better understanding of LRL and the Phenomena of the eletromagnetic fields.
This device react strongly to the electrostatic energies.

Regards6746
Hi Morgan,

Very interesting. This is exactly the type of LRL circuit that I have asked many times to be posted here, but there is always some excuse given, and the circuit never appears. If this device is claimed to detect the elusive (and scientifically unproven) emanations from longtime buried non-ferrous targets, then post the schematic for everyone to see. We have never asked for your "latest and greatest" design, just a simple proof-of-concept.

I await with baited breath...

[Max]

Hi Morgan,

Very interesting. This is exactly the type of LRL circuit that I have asked many times to be posted here, but there is always some excuse given, and the circuit never appears. If this device is claimed to detect the elusive (and scientifically unproven) emanations from longtime buried non-ferrous targets, then post the schematic for everyone to see. We have never asked for your "latest and greatest" design, just a simple proof-of-concept.

I await with baited breath...

like me too... when using more powerful TX oscillator... otherwise the MD sound...:D

[Esteban]

No comment ?!!

You mean this Alonso LRL its a CRAP ???

Or maybe you dont want to talk about it.

NO!!! No comment about details of his schematics!!!

[Morgan]

like me too... when using more powerful TX oscillator... otherwise the MD sound...:D
Ok,Max i promise to show wath is inside this LRL p00p box. It was made by one friend,he mixed the B.F.Oscilator with one Ionic /Electrostatic detector. We made some tests,and it works some meters distance but oonly with big objects(10x10cm minimum).
Of course it works as LRL,it get the phenomena but not good for small objects.
I like to put this things here. Maybe some genious see it and with some modifications make it much better...
Better you see and build if you want,but no need your p00p comments:nono:

regards

[Esteban]

Ok,Max i promise to show wath is inside this LRL p00p box. It was made by one friend,he mixed the B.F.Oscilator with one Ionic /Electrostatic detector. We made some tests,and it works some meters distance but oonly with big objects(10x10cm minimum).
Of course it works as LRL,it get the phenomena but not good for small objects.
I like to put this things here. Maybe some genious see it and with some modifications make it much better...
Better you see and build if you want,but no need your p00p comments:nono:

regards

But the real genius are the pioneers, not the modificators. :lol:

[Steve in MS]

I'd like to make a suggestion here and that is let's start a new thread for the schematics, whether here or under the schematic forum.
That way people could see it easier, maybe some to build to see how it turns out.
There is interest in this, who knows, maybe with mods and such there can be real progress and something everyone could benefit from.
Regards

[Fred]

But the real genius are the pioneers, not the modificators. :lol:
Not really.The genius will be the guy who make a good, reliably and proven working one.
The inventor will have prove that "his" invention actually works he will need to explain how it works...

[Qiaozhi]

I'd like to make a suggestion here and that is let's start a new thread for the schematics, whether here or under the schematic forum.
That way people could see it easier, maybe some to build to see how it turns out.
There is interest in this, who knows, maybe with mods and such there can be real progress and something everyone could benefit from.
Regards
If Morgan wants to start a new thread for this particular LRL, then it should remain in the Remote Sensing Forum. Otherwise things will get somewhat confused with LRL stuff in two different places.

[Morgan]

Not really.The genius will be the guy who make a good, reliably and proven working one.
The inventor will have prove that "his" invention actually works he will need to explain how it works...
Hi Fred

Bad news for your PDK project. As you know i made a new Pistoldetektor using your PCB and shematic post on the forum,and after a lot of troubles,now its working BUT NOT AS LRL,i made a lot of tests outside in my field test and in other places without any LRL results near old buried metals. To make it useful to detect the phenomena i think maybe needs complete revision in the schematic.It seams also the Qiaozhi last schematic version as some mistake.
About Max schematic,there is one person in the forum who as made it,and it seams to work very good,but we dont have sure yet,he will inform more.

Regards

[Morgan]

If Morgan wants to start a new thread for this particular LRL, then it should remain in the Remote Sensing Forum. Otherwise things will get somewhat confused with LRL stuff in two different places.
Hi

I already get the shematics from my friend,and all the information we need for this experimental LRL prototipe.I drawing the schematics with my letter to become more easy to read.
I go to put in Remote sensing threads the schematics and component list.
If someone decide to build it,just ask more questions.
I informe the box should be made of wood,and its not possible to use headphones,or device become erratic,due to the static energy generated by the movement of plastic materials,near the Antennas.
The person who made this device its not Electronic Engeneer,but fortunatlly this LRL detect the phenomenon of hig conductive metals buried long time in the ground,so i think with some help of EE´s and Esteban ,in the forum we can make better inprovments in the circuit.

Regards

Regards

[Esteban]

Not really.The genius will be the guy who make a good, reliably and proven working one.
The inventor will have prove that "his" invention actually works he will need to explain how it works...

Maybe, but need his support, his basis. :lol:

[Esteban]

Hi Fred

Bad news for your PDK project. As you know i made a new Pistoldetektor using your PCB and shematic post on the forum,and after a lot of troubles,now its working BUT NOT AS LRL,i made a lot of tests outside in my field test and in other places without any LRL results near old buried metals. To make it useful to detect the phenomena i think maybe needs complete revision in the schematic.It seams also the Qiaozhi last schematic version as some mistake.
About Max schematic,there is one person in the forum who as made it,and it seams to work very good,but we dont have sure yet,he will inform more.

Regards

What??? Now, your pistoldetector doesn't work!!! If you have the right way, don't understand why do you fail. :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Esteban]

You can use fiberglass instead wood. Her a sample of absorptive pistol in fiberglass

[Fred]

Hey!
An old AM/FM radio inside!
cool.

[Fred]

Hi Fred

Bad news for your PDK project. As you know i made a new Pistoldetektor using your PCB and shematic post on the forum,and after a lot of troubles,now its working BUT NOT AS LRL,i made a lot of tests outside in my field test and in other places without any LRL results near old buried metals. Regards
Well, this is consistent with what we told you before, same results as ours....
Hope can be improved.
Regards,
Fred.

[Esteban]

Hey!
An old AM/FM radio inside!
cool.

Amplification stage of radio is cheap and low in consumption. The absorptive part is more complex. I only make reference about material of box. Amplificative stage of radio or tape recorder can be useful.


Regards

Esteban

[Morgan]

What??? Now, your pistoldetector doesn't work!!! If you have the right way, don't understand why do you fail. :eek: :eek: :eek:
You understand wrong,its not my PD based in 6 Alonso circuits,i was talking about Fred´s PDK circuits,we are studing.

[Esteban]

You understand wrong,its not my PD based in 6 Alonso circuits,i was talking about Fred´s PDK circuits,we are studing.

Now, I understand.

[Morgan]

Now, I understand.
Hi Esteban

Do you have any solution for replace the 250 Micro Henry to any knob ,to use outside the wood box. This device needs time to time calibration with a screw driver in the 250 mH,its not confortable always doing this,maybe there is another component to replace the mH. Do you know something?
You can see complete schematic and PCB circuits in the thread "Ionic/Electrostatic energy Field Locator".

Regards

[Esteban]

You can use differeny way. See here.

Regards

Esteban

[Esteban]

Here one made by me. Is the same of drawing. You can see the plastic attached to the ferrite for to adjust it. Small solution for big problems.

[Esteban]

Here detail of other.

[Esteban]

But if you're a finest man and need more precisse use the tunner of AM radio (old) for car. This has 4 or more ferrites. You can connect in series for to find the desirable value. I try this and work. But drift of BFO maybe is not caused by it.

[Esteban]

This is a box for pistol made in fiberglass. I hope is better than wood.

[Esteban]

... and a matrix for handle (made for my father for me!). Final handle also is in fiberglass.

[Esteban]

Hi Esteban

Do you have any solution for replace the 250 Micro Henry to any knob ,to use outside the wood box. This device needs time to time calibration with a screw driver in the 250 mH,its not confortable always doing this,maybe there is another component to replace the mH. Do you know something?
You can see complete schematic and PCB circuits in the thread "Ionic/Electrostatic energy Field Locator".

Regards

I sugest that since this post and other ferrites figures, include AM tunner, must be in another thread of your ionic-BFO pistol.

[Esteban]

My father detecting with a BFO pistol. Is very useful in vegetable areas.

[Morgan]

I sugest that since this post and other ferrites figures, include AM tunner, must be in another thread of your ionic-BFO pistol.
Thanks for all the information,its useful.
This BFO detector its very stable but anyway it drift sometimes...
Did your father already found something with this BFO pistol?

Regards

[Esteban]

Thanks for all the information,its useful.
This BFO detector its very stable but anyway it drift sometimes...
Did your father already found something with this BFO pistol?

Regards

He found some things, but not important, not treasure! :lol:

[Fred]

He found some things, but not important, not treasure! :lol:
Esteban, not irony, but so many years without a treasure, mybe you should try in another land...make a trip to Peru or something....

[Esteban]

Esteban, not irony, but so many years without a treasure, mybe you should try in another land...make a trip to Peru or something....

Yes, there is not many treasures here, poor country = poor treasures, or do you find treasures with your parafernalia? In the central part of South America, indians don't know the metals...

At this time I take this as a sport, an adventure... but if you have luck... maybe. Is the same with MD. How many of you found treasures in all this years in rich countries with thousands years of history? But I know a man here who found 85 kilos sterling pounds British coins in iron pot manufactured in Birmingham...

You must be in the correct site, in good day, with good persons with you... and with treasure. You can pass 500 meters of a treasure, but you don't pass near, so, you can't found it!

The other problem is this: is treasure is very closed in iron box, you can't find with pistol. Iron is a great shielding!

[Morgan]

Yes, there is not many treasures here, poor country = poor treasures, or do you find treasures with your parafernalia? In the central part of South America, indians don't know the metals...

At this time I take this as a sport, an adventure... but if you have luck... maybe. Is the same with MD. How many of you found treasures in all this years in rich countries with thousands years of history? But I know a man here who found 85 kilos sterling pounds British coins in iron pot manufactured in Birmingham...

You must be in the correct site, in good day, with good persons with you... and with treasure. You can pass 500 meters of a treasure, but you don't pass near, so, you can't found it!

The other problem is this: is treasure is very closed in iron box, you can't find with pistol. Iron is a great shielding!
Hi Esteban

Do you know some way to polarize between Anode & Catode one gold or silver Leaf ? This will help Ionic/Electrostatic devices to become more selective ,fiding only the noble metals.

Regards

[Esteban]

Hi Esteban

Do you know some way to polarize between Anode & Catode one gold or silver Leaf ? This will help Ionic/Electrostatic devices to become more selective ,fiding only the noble metals.

Regards

Shhhhh!!!! :lol: Don't be inoportune! And if you know, shhhhh!!!

[Morgan]

Shhhhh!!!! :lol:
Ok,we polarize the gold with some Shhhhh!!!! tecnick :D

[Morgan]

Shhhhh!!!! :lol: Don't be inoportune! And if you know, shhhhh!!!
I finish this LRL,it works fine. Very powerful,as very big coil inside the wood box.The passive receiver and PCB made by Fred are very good,no need so many wires like in the Alonso PD. Thanks a lot Fred,and thanks Esteban for the coil ideias.
I will make one video film,with this LRL in field action.

Regards7069

7070

7071

[Morgan]

I finish this LRL,it works fine. Very powerful,as very big coil inside the wood box.The passive receiver and PCB made by Fred are very good,no need so many wires like in the Alonso PD. Thanks a lot Fred,and thanks Esteban for the coil ideias.
I will make one video film,with this LRL in field action.

Regards7069

7070

7071
About the Fred PCB,all correct except TR14 not correct position...

[detectoman]

hahhaah morgan investor, this is one cacharrote, you whit these find the treasure eldorado of peru, and the moctezuma treasure and detect fort bliss and the room of bars gold treasure national of usa
what is propierties?
hhhahah hhahahahaha oh my panzaaaaaaaaaa

[detectoman]

morgan put the handle in lateral hubication major show and easy transportation ha
my congratulations, cuidate mucho

[detectoman]

ahhhhhhhh i understand, you need put for detection to front ok
excusme

[Morgan]

ahhhhhhhh i understand, you need put for detection to front ok
excusme
Hi Dman

With this two simple switch,i can put device working ,Antenna(ferrite) alone,or Antenna+Big Coil, or only Big Coil for pinpoint. I put also one extra Potentiometer for volume control.
Device looks big,but in reality not heavy.

regards

[detectoman]

ok morgan, go front whit your succes, my congratulations, man very much patiente
you read THE BIBLE sure succes

[humhum]

Hi Morgan, can you post photos from front view and inside.

[Morgan]

Hi Morgan, can you post photos from front view and inside.
I made tests with a GOLD sample,using one ANTENNA in stead of FERRITE in PASSIVE RECEIVER,and as result i can detect the GOLD only in front of the ANTENNA,its omnidirectional.I made a video film with this .
I try this device in the fields,and it works fine,but the distance in LRL is the same as the other PISTOLDETEKTOR.

7158

[Esteban]

Morgan

Here your pistol in action!

Put the code, wait seconds and download. Only for 7 days, this deppend of the site, not by me!

http://www.gofileshare.com/download.php?id=D3ABB0B3

[Morgan]

Morgan

Here your pistol in action!

Put the code, wait seconds and download. Only for 7 days, this deppend of the site, not by me!

http://www.gofileshare.com/download.php?id=D3ABB0B3
Thanks Esteban

The test i made with the gold sample was with both circuits working,not only the Passive Receiver. And i comfirm the big 8 coil is not able to detect the sample in this position,so the beeps are all from the small coil antenna.
My question,why detects only in front of antenna ???


Regards

[humhum]

:shocked: Thanks ESTEBAN and MORGAN ,for video, maybe you use bronze metal in front side or what ?. (send me private mesage.)

[humhum]

bronze?

[Morgan]

:shocked: Thanks ESTEBAN and MORGAN ,for video, maybe you use bronze metal in front side or what ?. (send me private mesage.)
No,the sample is made of 24K gold.

[humhum]

Ok , Morgan Thank you , (RX) ANTENNA in stead of FERRITE how much uH ?

[Morgan]

Ok , Morgan Thank you , (RX) ANTENNA in stead of FERRITE how much uH ?
You look very young in photo. Already playing with LRL devices ?...:shocked:

[humhum]

Thanks Morgan, this is my children.