LRL questions. [Archive] - LongRangeLocators Forums

olympios

07-22-2008, 12:27 PM

The only unit I'm familiar with, is the Omnitron2 (from Dell Winders). I used that device a little over ten years ago. I found so much gold with it that I filled all my pockets and I had to leave the rest for some other pour soul to take!
Sorry guys, I had to say this, lol. When you get ripped-off, to only thing you can do is make fun of it!
Anyway, I see quite a few of them being advertised in the net, so I'd like to ask some questions. Those of you that are familiar with these units, answer the following questions for me, please.
1. Do I have to be a dowser in order to use one?
2. Do they really work or is this a scam?
3. This outfit: http://www.treasurenow.com/html/products.html invites clients to visit their shop for a free demo or training. If the units don't work as advertised, how are they gonna convince the client to buy one, especially when they cost up to $20,000?

hung

07-22-2008, 02:22 PM

My sincere opinion is that your questions should be directly refered to the dowsers forum in TNET site. The geotech site has no knowledge or experience in this subject and as result, no dowser is an active member of this group. On the dowsers forum in TNET, on the other hand, you will have plenty of info directly from them.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=edd52101afe5e8401807c9aef7a347 0a&board=200.0

However I could try to share some info with you although I'm not a dowser and I'm not familiar with the Ominitron either.

I own a rangertell examiner which is an extremely valuable tool to me. With it I was able to track 2 treasure sites so far which only closer, our team's all electronic LRLs started to respond. I will not start a debate whether the RT unit is a dowsing device or not. This will take (as always) to nowhere and I trully don't care. I really don't know if the omnitron is similar to the Examiner, although both employ swivel rods (antennas), in the case of the examiner, just one, and they deal with frequencies.

I had never practiced dowsing before, but had no difficulties in dealing with the Examiner.

You may choose to consider my opinions and report or not. It's up to you. I just wanted to help and offer you some info.
I belong to a group of very few here who abandoned Thunting with regular metal detectors a long time, migrating to LRLs. And before you mention that LRLs are no garantee of finding gold, also regular MDs are not. A very special member of this closed group here also spent a long time with an ordinary MD and never found anything. Only did when started to work with a LRL.
So, let's put this way: I might be suspicious to talk about LRLs because I'm an active proponent. It works and always worked for me. Don't know about you.

Hope this helps in a way or another. Best of luck.

Dell Winders

07-22-2008, 06:45 PM

Sorry guys, I had to say this, lol. When you get ripped-off, to only thing you can do is make fun of it!

OLYMPIOS, you claim you were ripped off by your purchase of an OMNITRON II that didn't work?

Did you receive a factory warranty with your purchase? Thanks! Dell

PanZero

07-22-2008, 09:16 PM

Dell,
i understand, that you are claiming that omnitron works.
If it works, then why did you sell them? You can easly find all goods and live rest of your life in luxury house in Monaco. ^_^

Dell Winders

07-22-2008, 11:03 PM

Dell,
i understand, that you are claiming that omnitron works.
If it works, then why did you sell them? You can easly find all goods and live rest of your life in luxury house in Monaco. ^_^

You might also ask why does any treasure hunter, or manufacturer sell Metal detectors of any kind?

Omnitron, is a generic name. It and derivatives of that name have been used by many manufacturers since 1987. Omnitron II, was never one of my products, and although later versions of Omnitron II, are still on the market, it is not one of my products.

If an instrument was purchased from me, it includes a 1 year limited warranty, which has always been honored. Waiting 10 years after a purchase to anonomously report being "ripped off" holds no merit for truth, or honesty.

I also wasted a lot of money over the years registered with the Better Business Bureau, State of Florida, and Chamber of Commerce, so any customer of mine would have legal & financial recourse if the product did not perform as I claimed. No other LRL manufacturer, I know of ever did that.

I can only speak for my own products, and they do work as I claim them to work. They have been well consumer tested accordingly. My products are not without express limitations, as well as benefits. As a Professional Treasure Hunter/Salvor (semi-retired) I wasted a lot of time and money in my searches when these tools were not an available option to me. Now, I would not attempt to conduct a field Survey without them.

LRL's, I am familiar with, are a time saving tool that can aid the operator in their search for Treasure. However, the end result can only be as good as the knowledge, experience, and the follow up resources of the person using it.

Panzero, I am always astonished at the rationale that believes that anyone can spend a few hundred dollars for a Frequency Discriminator, or LRL, and expect to become a millionaire as the result.?

I already enjoy a good life in Florida. I have no desire to go to Monaco. Dell

roberts

07-23-2008, 01:06 AM

Theseus

07-23-2008, 01:43 AM

This subject will never expire.
Any eventuall finds made by a dowser can only be explained
with natural borned talents of dowser himself.
Any apparatus used by dowser is only apparatus.
NOT DEVICE BUT APPARATUS.
But LRL "devices" are made and sold only to earn money, those
all are non working crap.
So real truth is those DONT WORK!
Dowser actually DO locate burried items, NOT apparatus.
If you dont have any genetic talent for dowsing than be
awared in fact that none of existing apparatuses will ever
help you. Wasted money and nothing else.
Real dowsers are rare. 99% of "dowsers" you can meet are total
frauds and charlatans.
So, eventually i can accept Hung's and Dell's so persistent
claims and stories about so fantastic finds they had so far.
It is possible those are real natural borned, talented dowsers.
I had to write this. I argued so many times with those two.
They remained persistent.
What i cant and will not accept ever is claims that those
apparatuses really work! Never!
Those are not working.
Dell, your mind is working but apparatus you holding in your
hands is not working.
Your mind is sensitive receiver and any possible apparatus in
your hands could be possible "antenna".
No matter which kind of apparatus.
This is only acceptable truth.

Very well said, and you are completely correct in all you state.

If a "dowser" looks long enough and investigates enough possible locations, yes, eventually they will "stumble" onto something that can be claimed as that which they were seeking.

However, whether they do their dowsing with an apparatus OR NOT, has no bearing whatsoever on the outcome of their dowsing.

The dowsing gadgets and apparatus were designed strictly as a scam item to be sold to the gullible in order to give the "maker" (scammer) some quick ready cash in his wallet.

There really is no other explanation for the apparatus since ALL attempts to validate that it actually enhances the dowsing response have failed completely.

Fred

07-23-2008, 02:20 AM

This subject will never expire.
Any eventuall finds made by a dowser can only be explained
with natural borned talents of dowser himself....
Hi Robert,
Independently of the ideas, congratulation for a constructive and
educated point of view ;)
Regards,
Fred.

olympios

07-23-2008, 03:18 AM

OLYMPIOS, you claim you were ripped off by your purchase of an OMNITRON II that didn't work?

Did you receive a factory warranty with your purchase? Thanks! Dell
Dell, hi.
I got the Omnitron II back in 1996. I remember I had a long conversation with you over the phone. You told me that the unit is tested and works fine. You also told me that I do not need to be a dowser to make it work. Anyone can successfuly use the unit. I moved to Greece that year and for many months I practiced but could not make the unit work. I also had my brother work with it for quite some time with same results. Then I talked to someone who is a successful dowser in our area, and he said that the unit does absolutelly nothing. The rods, however, can be used as dowser's tool but he has better ones.
For the next couple of years, I had numerous people work with the unit but no one could make it respond to anything. Lately, with the help of internet, I read that nobody ever made it work. So, how do you call this? Isn't it a scam? I probably was the only one who could not make it work; what about the rest of the people that couldn't make it work, and we find out now, thanks to the internet?
.......Waiting 10 years after a purchase to anonomously report being "ripped off" holds no merit for truth, or honesty...... No, Dell. I did not wait ten years on purpose. For five years I was in Greece, and, certainly, I wasn't gonna spend $1,500.00 for an airplain ticket to come here and exchange a $600.00 device. Besides, I just found this site and post my... experiences with Omnitron II.
Honesty? Should we discuss it?

Carl-NC

07-23-2008, 03:33 AM

I'll answer these from a scientific perspective...

1. Do I have to be a dowser in order to use one?

We would first have to answer the question, "What is dowsing?" It turns out that dowsing doesn't work the way dowsers think it works. When scientifically tested using randomized hidden targets, dowsing works as well as guessing. So in real use, dowsing is nothing more than applied intuition, observation, and a little luck. That being the case, if you want to be successful with only an LRL, then intuition, observation, and luck are necessary. But you can also add a metal detector to "truth" each hit, and only dig what the metal detector says to dig. So I would say that "dowsing" isn't really necessary, but something is necessary to get results because, by themselves, LRLs cannot detect gold.

2. Do they really work or is this a scam?

LRLs cannot detect gold. As explained above, real results can only be obtained when something else is at play. LRL users do feel a "response" from the dowsing rods, and swear it's "working". But this "response" is a mind trick, and not real. For those who believe it is real, they are self-deceived.

Now comes the tricky question: Do the manufacturers and sellers really believe their LRLs are working? Are they themselves self-deceived? Or do they know the truth, and are running an intentional scam? In my experiences I've seen both, and I leave it everyone to determine who is who. You can almost always tell by their alibis and defenses.

3. This outfit: http://www.treasurenow.com/html/products.html invites clients to visit their shop for a free demo or training. If the units don't work as advertised, how are they gonna convince the client to buy one, especially when they cost up to $20,000?

They rely on a demonstration in which the prospective buyer tries out the device, and feels the previously mentioned "response". It is truly an eerie and compelling feeling. Practically everyone who experiences it for the first time thinks, "Whoa! That was weird!" Once you convince someone it's a real response and not a mind trick (and most people assume it's real), the sale is easy. I've personally watched LRL dealers do their demonstrations, and people stand there in unquestioning amazement. But with a little application of scientific rigor, those demonstrations become embarrassing failures.

- Carl

olympios

07-23-2008, 03:50 AM

Carl, thanks.
I have met some successful dowsers, in USA and in Greece. Funny thing is, they used their abilities to find water, and after the drilling took place, water was found as they have predicted. However, I asked some of them to find items that I had hidden, but for some reason they could not find them!!! For the water, I was witness to several drillings; their prediction was extremely accurate. But for finding anything else... failure. Some of them also tried to teach me how to dowse but, lol, they failed!!!
What I don't understand is this: Let's say I'm going to buy a unit, and ask for demo. I'm holding the rods. How is the seller gonna make the rods respond to something, since I'm holding them?

Carl-NC

07-23-2008, 04:37 AM

Water is exceptionally easy to find in most places. Assuming only luck is involved (no experience-based intuition or observation) water will be found the vast majority of the time. Where I live, dry wells are extremely rare. So for water, dowsing seems to work because it's a high-probability event.

What I don't understand is this: Let's say I'm going to buy a unit, and ask for demo. I'm holding the rods. How is the seller gonna make the rods respond to something, since I'm holding them?

The seller can't make the rods move. But you can. If the seller gives you enough suggestions and cues (try this, try that, hold it this way, ...) you will eventually get a self-induced response. Once you get a first response, more responses come easily, and you are quickly convinced that something real is happening.

- Carl

olympios

07-23-2008, 05:53 AM

Geeee. And they sell that crap for $20,000?

Dell Winders

07-23-2008, 07:07 AM

What I don't understand is this: Let's say I'm going to buy a unit, and ask for demo. I'm holding the rods. How is the seller gonna make the rods respond to something, since I'm holding them?

The seller can't make the rods move. But you can. If the seller gives you enough suggestions and cues (try this, try that, hold it this way, ...) you will eventually get a self-induced response. Once you get a first response, more responses come easily, and you are quickly convinced that something real is happening.

- Carl

Getting a response is a necessary first step in the learning process. After A person learns to get a response with the Rods, I walk away and allow the novice to search, locate and mark the locations of buried targets without my presence. Yes, it is convincing when they discover their locations are very close, or on the discriminated targets.

Olympios, appears to claim that neither he, or his brother ever got a response with the rods even after months of practice and trying to make it work, so Carl, you make a mute point.

Olympios, I ask again, did you receive a factory warranty with your Omnitron 2? If the Omnitron II, didn't work after several months, I am at a loss to understand why you didn't contact me, and send the product back to me for repair, or possible refund instead of waiting 12 years and posting on an anti-Dell, anti- LRL forum claiming that I somehow mis-lead you, and ripped you off.

I have worked hard to maintain a life long reputation of honesty, and integrity, and I take your allegations seriously.

I have to admit, I'm still trying to figure out how pidgeons were able squeeze in and make a nest in the unit, as you described? Dell

Geo

07-23-2008, 07:41 AM

Geeee. And they sell that crap for $20,000?

What they sell for $20.000??

Dell Winders

07-23-2008, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by olympios http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=75498#post75498)
Geeee. And they sell that crap for $20,000?

What they sell for $20.000??

http://treasurenow.com/html/TreasureNavigator.html (http://http//treasurenow.com/html/TreasureNavigator.html)

You sound surprised, Geo?

It's a multi-million dollar industry.

I've talked with one person who paid $80,000, and another who paid $35,000, and many, many, who paid from $5,000 to $12,000 for similar units. It's not uncommon for LRL's to sell for $3,000, or more.

And yes, the majority that are sold, and for the highest prices are manufactured by electronic engineers, and techs.

Consumers have their choice of a wide variety of LRL products on the market, and who they wish to buy from. Dell

olympios

07-23-2008, 10:30 AM

What they sell for $20.000??
Check this unit: http://www.treasurenow.com/html/TreasureNavigator.html They want a little over $20,000 for it. Scroll down towards the bottom of the page, to see the price.
Einai kleftes. Nai h oxi?

olympios

07-23-2008, 10:40 AM

.............
Olympios, I ask again, did you receive a factory warranty with your Omnitron 2? If the Omnitron II, didn't work after several months, I am at a loss to understand why you didn't contact me, and send the product back to me for repair, or possible refund instead of waiting 12 years and posting on an anti-Dell, anti- LRL forum claiming that I somehow mis-lead you, and ripped you off.

I have worked hard to maintain a life long reputation of honesty, and integrity, and I take your allegations seriously.

I have to admit, I'm still trying to figure out how pidgeons were able squeeze in and make a nest in the unit, as you described? Dell

Dell, hi.
It was about 12 years ago. I don't remember if I got factory warranty. Besides, it wouldn't do any good. I was living in Greece then, and it wasn't possible to come here just for that unit. Along with the Omnitron II I purchased another unit (if I remember well, about $200) it was Omni Range or something like that. That didn't work either. Tested by me and several others. So, I came to the conclussion that LRLs don't work, and I gave up on them. In the year 2001, I came back here but did not bring those useless units with me. Just lost interest. In the year 2003 I went back to Greece and took a OKM GPR with me. That didn't do what they advertise it does. Since I paid a lot for it, I brought that back and sold it here.
Anyway, I'm not asking for my money back for the Omnitron II. Just saying what my experience was with it. Also, many people that used them they also say that they do not work. Nothing personal.

roberts

07-23-2008, 11:56 AM

"...Einai kleftes. Nai h oxi?.."

NAI ! :lol:

hung

07-23-2008, 01:09 PM

I'll answer these from a scientific perspective...

LRLs cannot detect gold. - Carl

You will have two options in your new 'endeavour job'.
Either be seriously spanked by facts you will discover that prove your above statements are (and always were) not true, learning the hard way, or pretend they are true just to keep your 'show' going on, specially now that you are officially in the 'orthodox side' of metal detecting.

Which one is gonna be?:razz:

Carl-NC

07-23-2008, 01:17 PM

You will have two options in your new 'endeavour job'.
Either be seriously spanked by facts you will discover that prove your above statements are (and always were) not true, learning the hard way, or pretend they are true just to keep your 'show' going on, specially now that you are officially in the 'orthodox side' of metal detecting.

You might have noticed that my $25,000 challenge remains, and will continue. So anyone who wishes to spank me can not only have fun doing it, but even get paid for the privilege.

- Carl

P.S. - I've noticed that Mineoro backed away from their desire to spank me.

hung

07-23-2008, 01:32 PM

You might have noticed that my $25,000 challenge remains, and will continue. So anyone who wishes to spank me can not only have fun doing it, but even get paid for the privilege.

I already told youself your 'challenge' is ficticious and an utopia. It was just made to self promotion. And despite of that you backed out from Kelly Brown's challenge and almost peed in your pants when you knew you would be knocked out by his device 'live in national broadcast'.:lol:.
Well, this would be a good promotion for you anyway...

I've noticed that Mineoro backed away from their desire to spank me.

I admit I told them in the past your 'circus and pony show' was not worth.
Don't know if they consider what I said or not.
Anyway, Damasio is ill and he's unable to travel and I fear this will only get worse. But you were always invited by them to show up with all support you choose to perform the 'challenge' here, due to Damasio's health condition.
You never answered this. I'll be glad in telling him if you agree.

If you really are serious about your 'challenge' you would accept come here.
But what the heck, you know you will back out from this as well... You don't have the guts.:nono:

Fred

07-23-2008, 01:41 PM

Hung,

Do you suffer from Multiple Personality Syndrome?
Fred.

hung

07-23-2008, 02:08 PM

Hung,

Do you suffer from Multiple Personality Syndrome?
Fred.

??????

roberts

07-23-2008, 03:05 PM

Hung,

Do you suffer from Multiple Personality Syndrome?
Fred.

Seems suffers from many multiplied syndromes at the same time!? :D:lol:

Qiaozhi

07-23-2008, 11:14 PM

Hung,

Do you suffer from Multiple Personality Syndrome?
Fred.

??????
It was a simple question. I understood the deeper meaning, but clearly you did not! :lol:

Qiaozhi

07-23-2008, 11:21 PM

Olympios, appears to claim that neither he, or his brother ever got a response with the rods even after months of practice and trying to make it work, so Carl, you make a mute point.
Hmmm ... this is an interesting statement ... given that you claim you do not have to be a dowser to use the Omnitron .

Carl-NC

07-24-2008, 05:05 AM

Hung,

No, I didn't back out, Michael Tune (Kelly Brown's partner) did. We had a contract ready to go, and he (not me) decided not to proceed. I will still follow through as soon as he is ready, but I doubt that will ever happen. Same with Bob Yocum; I now have a signed contract with him, but he refuses to proceed. You already know all this, but continue to make the same ol' false claims. I can't do anything about it when claimants won't follow through.

You've spent a lot of effort on this forum trying to counter my critique of LRLs. So why would you tell Mineoro I'm not worth their time? Are you as sure as I am that they will fail? Why would you NOT want someone to prove me wrong, to publically "spank" me?

It's funny how you guys would love to see that happen, but instead you do all you can to prevent it, and then blame me.

- Carl

J_Player

07-24-2008, 05:41 AM

Sometimes I wonder....
Why is it that nobody on earth who sells LRLs will demonstrate their LRL finding treasure in a double blind test?

Why is it that a credible test of an LRL is always declined and substituted with claims that the test is not fair? If these LRLs work, why not show us all how good they perform just like the people who sell metal detectors do? Do you suppose an LRL can pass a double blind test performing exactly as the advertising claims they perform?

:rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

Geo

07-24-2008, 07:33 AM

Check this unit: http://www.treasurenow.com/html/TreasureNavigator.html They want a little over $20,000 for it. Scroll down towards the bottom of the page, to see the price.
Einai kleftes. Nai h oxi?

H timh einai gia olo ton kosmo kai oxi mono gia ellada. Oti einai kleftes ... gamhse ta.
Xairetismata apo Elada kai Karditsa (poli zesta file moy:lol:)
:)

hung

07-24-2008, 05:45 PM

Carl,
First of all. Nobody wants to spank you. At least none that I know. :D
I said you would be 'spanked' by facts proving you're wrong about your claims of LRL's not being able to find gold. Such stupid and naive statements makes really hard to believe you still expect to fool anyone after all those years.

Now let's proceed.

No, I didn't back out, Michael Tune (Kelly Brown's partner) did. We had a contract ready to go, and he (not me) decided not to proceed. I will still follow through as soon as he is ready, but I doubt that will ever happen. You already know all this, but continue to make the same ol' false claims. I can't do anything about it when claimants won't follow through.

You know this is not true. Anybody who watched the thread about this subject in TNET forum at the time witnessed how you first accepted Kelly's conditions. Mike would make all arrangements in terms of expenses so you would not be in prejudice. But as time passed by and CLEARLY 'feeling the pressure' aproaching, you tried to twist Kelly's conditions to fit your own with a lot of demands that would make the test more and more complicated to happen with the clear objective of creating obstacles to it. Not to mention that apparently you declined in not giving any financial garantee Mike asked in order to prove you really had the 25,000 dollars amount.
In sum, what is clear for anyone who read all those threads is that you first accepted, buth then apprently you saw that you could not win, rethought your strategy and started to create all obstacles to avoid it.
Mike and Kelly got pissed off and never returned to you again, because they knew they would just loose their time with a challenge that's all 'make believe'.

If you have the original threads, show here for people to know and prove I'm telling any lie.

You've spent a lot of effort on this forum trying to counter my critique of LRLs. So why would you tell Mineoro I'm not worth their time? Are you as sure as I am that they will fail? Why would you NOT want someone to prove me wrong, to publically "spank" me?[/quote ]

Again, nobody cares to spank you, much less Mineoro. What for??
Do you think they really need it to?:lol:

You just have an agenda towards LRLs that is notorious and you have built some follow ups along the recent past. Only that it's completely outdated and specially now that you got what you wanted in working to a MD company.

[quote]It's funny how you guys would love to see that happen, but instead you do all you can to prevent it, and then blame me.

You know that your challenge is an utopia. You know pretty much this.
This has all been a marketing strategy on your side made to never happen.
Take Kelly's case for instance. Did it happen? It will always be like that. A lot of burocracy, twistings and blah blah blah. Just that.

You are the type of person (or pretend to be) that you could spot me with my PDC pointing to a buried gold location, you would hear the detector beep, we would go there, excavate it, you would see the gold vein but in the end you would deny seeing it. Of course you could make up millions excuses such as interference, coincidence, thunder lightings, and etc and etc. Something that you could 'scientifically' explain.

Mineoro's challenge is also still up. Did you or anybody here tried to prove them wrong to win $ 50,000?? C'mon, don't you claim they don't work? Go for it.

hung

07-24-2008, 05:47 PM

J_Player

07-24-2008, 07:35 PM

Oh hung......

As I previously asked...
"Why is it that credible test of an LRL is always declined and substituted with claims that the test is not fair?"

What I see now is hung has decided to avoid the question and try to point his finger at the person who asked...
I think some of us are getting tired of your BS and false accusations against people who post in this forum. For one, I never knowingly made any false statements in this forum. If you read the one error I made, you will find I immediately made a retraction as soon as I discovered the error. But actually I don't care about the BS you might try to sling. And I doubt Carl cares a whole lot about your BS either. The international community who reads this forum is fairly well equipped to determine what garbage leaks out of Rio, and can separate it from the facts.

As far as Morgan is concerned, the appearance is he is concealing the exact details about winding coils. But after gaining further information that most people don't see, the appearance (to me) is that much what Morgan said was made up. Furthermore, I cannot discuss any details of these disclosures here because of prior agreements I made. So you will not see me responding to anything that was said under agreement of non-disclosure, in private messages, or in private emails.

If you ever decide to post information depicting me to be calling Dell Winders a liar in the geotech forums, you will probably find you are mistaken. I have often asked the question to him.. whether he told a lie, but I don't recall ever calling him a liar. When you decide to actually read the posts, you may find that Dell is the person who habitually calls people liars when they ask very specific questions in an attempt to learn the facts that surround his LRLs.

And this brings us back to what this thread is all about. "Do LRLs really work or is this a scam?"
So let's look at what Dell is currently selling: The X-scan.

On Dell's web page, we can see a photo of the X-Scan that is depicted to find all sorts of organic targets including hidden currency. My question was:
Why is it that nobody on earth who sells LRLs will demonstrate their LRL finding treasure in a double blind test?

Isn't the X-Scan another of the hundreds of LRLs for sale that the seller refuses to demonstrate working as it is depicted on his web page? Isn't Dell's web page another LRL scam to get people to send in orders for more junk to put in their LRL museum? Or is Dell actually willing to demonstrate the X-scan finding hidden dollars?

Best wishes,
J_P

Qiaozhi

07-24-2008, 10:28 PM

Mineoro's challenge is also still up. Did you or anybody here tried to prove them wrong to win $ 50,000?? C'mon, don't you claim they don't work? Go for it.
We've been through this point before.
If I tell you that I believe there's a tea tray in orbit about the Earth, it's not up to you to prove me wrong. It's up to me to prove that there actually is a tea tray in orbit about the Earth.
In the same way - with the FG(whatever) - it's up to Mineoro to prove that it can find gold at the distances they claim, not the other way around.

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof.

hung

07-24-2008, 11:10 PM

Jplayer, you contribution to the PD forum was valuable. But this just don't mask your attitude of making believe to Morgan you had your PD working and posing to the forum as someone who had not a soldering iron. This is a shame and you will never recover of that in my opinion. You did not need to do this. You were cheating all the time. It did not work.

Regarding my discussion with Carl, please just stay out of it. You don't have the slightest idea of what we are talking about regarding the TNET episode. For this you are talking BS. Sorry.

Carl made a great contribution to all of us by starting the Geotech forum. I don't deny his good intention of keeping the Remote Sensing in his site when some of the top names in treasure forums declined.
But to date, I'm sure he had many evidences about LRLs. He just don't admit it. And never will. Instead of exposing HIS OPINION wheter LRLs don't work, he sells this as a plain truth. He never should do this. This is his biggest mistake. Or... he just need this marketing.

Regards.

J_Player

07-24-2008, 11:31 PM

Regarding my discussion with Carl, please just stay out of it. You don't have the slightest idea of what we are talking about regarding the TNET episode. For this you are talking BS. Sorry.On the contrary, I know everything you and Carl posted about it here and what was posted at TNET. Have you considered that you are posting in a public international forum - not a private conversation, and spectators are not prohibited from commenting? Why do I still smell the stink of Rio's garbage?

Best wishes,
J_P

Fred

07-25-2008, 12:46 AM

We've been through this point before.
If I tell you that I believe there's a tea tray in orbit about the Earth, it's not up to you to prove me wrong. It's up to me to prove that there actually is a tea tray in orbit about the Earth...

Exactly, and this is also the interest of those devices manufacturer.To (seriously) prove that they work would bring them unconditional success forever.So i don´t understand why we don´t do it...:rolleyes:
Fred.

olympios

07-25-2008, 02:42 AM

Gentlemen.
I'm gonna jump in here... after all, I started this thread, lol.
Some of you believe that LRLs work as advertised. Some of you, don't. My own experience is this: I have personally seen dowsers locate water very accurately, several times. A friend of mine (electrician), he uses a piece of copper wire, bent in "L" shape, to locate wires in walls. Now, What puzzles me is the fact that all those dowsers were never able to lacate items, like jewelry, that I had hidden! So, I do believe that dowsing is possible and that some people do have this ability to find only certain things.
As for LRLs, based on my own experience with two different devices (Omnitron II and OmniRange), they do not work. They were tested by me and several other people and the results were negative. Also, reading in several forums, only the people that sell them insist that they work!!! There is, however, a possibility that they probably work only if the person is also a dowser, but I'm not a dowser so I can not confirm this.
These are my own experiences, based on what I have actually seen first hand and not hearsay. Now, what happened between Carl and those other guys, and who backed-off and who didn't, doesn't make any difference to me, and doesn't change the fact that LRLs do NOT work! They might work if you were a dowser but this is not what the manufacturers advertise. In fact, they claim that you don't have to be a dowser in order to have them work for you. Desides, I think it is too stupid to pay thousands of dollars for a hundred dollar device. They say that they sell technology!!!??? Technology where? In a device that doesn't even work? LOL, what a joke!!!

Carl-NC

07-25-2008, 04:52 AM

I have personally seen dowsers locate water very accurately, several times. A friend of mine (electrician), he uses a piece of copper wire, bent in "L" shape, to locate wires in walls.

Water dowsing, pipe dowsing, and wire dowsing are all probability events. Water dowsing is extremely easy, most anyone can do it and be successful at it. It is not the least bit impressive.

For those who understand utilities and can read terrain, boxes, and meters, utility (pipes, etc) dowsing is not very difficult. As a teenager I worked for an irrigation company and saw dowsing used several times to find pipes, almost always where we figured the pipe would be anyway. But I also saw some spectacular failures, where dowsing was horribly wrong. (This started my skepticism!)

Same with locating wires in a wall. I did all my own wiring when I built my house, and I could probably figure out with pretty good accuracy how wires are routed in other houses. It's largely common sense, for those who know wiring.

What you may have seen are a few successes, but I expect there were also a lot of failures you never saw, where their intuition was just wrong. If you had your electrician friend do a simple test where he tried to locate a movable wire in a wall (or on the other side of a wall), you would find he is not as good at dowsing as you think, he is just a good electrician.

This is why scientific testing is so important. Our senses are easily fooled, and we have very selective memories. Dowsing doesn't hold up under scientific investigation, no matter if it's water, pipes, wires, or treasure.

- Carl