ICONOS Gold Detector

[Kirk Chi]

I like to know if anyone had good experience of having a business transaction with ICONOS Gold Detector. My experience has been very unfortunate. Please find below the summary of my experience:


- After 83 days after ICONOS received the money, I still do not have the product delivered.
- ICONOS shipped a defective product that does not work, so I returned the product back.
- ICONOS requested more money (350 Euros) for the replacement. They promised that they will ship the replace immediately once they receive the additional money.
- I sent additional money.
- ICONOS informed me that they have shipped the replacement unit using a courier company.
- But I did not receive the product. I confirmed with the courier company that the tracking number they provided does not even exist. The courier company confirmed to me that there is no shipment coming to me
- I tried to reach ICONOS repeatedly, but ICONOS does not respond to my emails and calls anymore.

[putrechigi]

look this and good luck

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?t=13384

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?t=13628

where do you live?

[Carl-NC]

As I posted on another forum, when you buy an LRL you're not buying a gold detector, you're buying an education.

[Qiaozhi]

As I posted on another forum, when you buy an LRL you're not buying a gold detector, you're buying an education.


And often it can be an expensive lesson.

[Rudy]

...
- ICONOS shipped a defective product that does not work, so I returned the product back.


But that is normal. All their units do that.

[Theseus]

I like to know if anyone had good experience of having a business transaction with ICONOS Gold Detector. My experience has been very unfortunate. Please find below the summary of my experience:


- After 83 days after ICONOS received the money, I still do not have the product delivered.
- ICONOS shipped a defective product that does not work, so I returned the product back.
- ICONOS requested more money (350 Euros) for the replacement. They promised that they will ship the replace immediately once they receive the additional money.
- I sent additional money.
- ICONOS informed me that they have shipped the replacement unit using a courier company.
- But I did not receive the product. I confirmed with the courier company that the tracking number they provided does not even exist. The courier company confirmed to me that there is no shipment coming to me
- I tried to reach ICONOS repeatedly, but ICONOS does not respond to my emails and calls anymore.

I know it is no consolation, but you are not alone, in that this experience turned out to be a very expensive education. You might try a couple of different attempts at complaining, such as contacting the Federal Trade Commission, or an Attorney General. Unfortunately, I've never heard of very much success from this kind of a complaint, when dealing with scammers of this variety. Good luck.

[J_Player]

You might try a couple of different attempts at complaining, such as contacting the Federal Trade Commission, or an Attorney General.This company is located on the island of Cyprus. There is no federal trade commission to contact. Perhaps http://www.resellerratings.com/ handles this kind of complaint.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Clondike Clad]

NOW THAT IS ALL.
I CAN'T GET A LRL TO WORK AND BUT THE MAKERS GET THE MONEY.
ONE KEY IS MOST ARE NOT MADE IN THE USA
SO NOT MADE IN THE USA, DIAMONDS, PAPER MONEY AND COINS OVER 10 METERS ARE A FLAG FOR A SCAM. WHEN PEOPLE ARE SCAMMED IT MAKE ME MAD:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angr y::angry::angry:
I SEEN THE INSIDE OF CRAP FOR DELL AMD OTHERS :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:: angry::angry::angry:
YES THE ICONOS WILL FIND MONEY(BUT IT WILL ONLY WORK FOR THE SELLER)
GETTING YOUR MONEY BACK NO,NOTA AND ZIP.
YOU WILL NOT BE THE LAST.

[Dell Winders]

Klondike, it's not necessary to go into jealous rants. Just build a better LRL for us to use and then you won't have to suffer from anger, complain about, or be envious of what others have accompolished.

I wish you the best. Dell



http://www.treasureamerica.com/photo/pro4circuit.jpg

[Clondike Clad]

Anyone can show crap( show me the circuit so i can build it.
This is a warp drive engine.(Show me the circuit and no scam please.)

[putrechigi]

Andreas where you are, you some advice from friend unfortunate given that the icons you've worked ..................

and geo? you have the iconos

[Dell Winders]

inside of what dell
Anyone can show crap( show me the circuit so i can build it.
This is a warp drive engine.(Show me the circuit and no scam please.)

:???: I posted a photo of the LRL circuit I use, as you requested on another thread. You are welcome to build your own. Anyone can. I did!

But since you have already pre-determined it is crap, why don't you build a better LRL and let us learn from your field experience use?

Ranting about what others do, or don't do to suit you, doesn't resolve anything. It only demonstrates your own inability to comprehend. Show us how you would build a better LRL? I look forward to hearing of your own discoveries with LRL.

" THE DOOR TO KNOWLEDGE & UNDERSTANDING IS NEVER OPEN TO A CLOSED, OR PREJUDICED MIND." dELL

[Max]

:???: I posted a photo of the LRL circuit I use, as you requested on another thread. You are welcome to build your own. Anyone can. I did!

But since you have already pre-determined it is crap, why don't you build a better LRL and let us learn from your field experience use?

Ranting about what others do, or don't do to suit you, doesn't resolve anything. It only demonstrates your own inability to comprehend. Show us how you would build a better LRL? I look forward to hearing of your own discoveries with LRL.

" THE DOOR TO KNOWLEDGE & UNDERSTANDING IS NEVER OPEN TO A CLOSED, OR PREJUDICED MIND." dELL

:lol:

Be real and got some shame... you're not playing the guitar on the MTV... but probably melt some glue just right now... :lol:

This is the general equation for getting richer:

LRL = money for nothing :D

But seems that people wanna make you all, "LRL manifacturers", richer anyway... :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Dell Winders]

Max, as I said,"

"THE DOOR TO KNOWLEDGE & UNDERSTANDING IS NEVER OPEN TO A CLOSED, OR PREJUDICED MIND."

Your ignorance and dis-honest claims are showing.

I don't use hot glue in the products I build. Never have. Where do you see any? I don't even own a glue gun.

The shame is on you for not being truthful. Get real! :nono: Dell

[Max]

Max, as I said,"

"THE DOOR TO KNOWLEDGE & UNDERSTANDING IS NEVER OPEN TO A CLOSED, OR PREJUDICED MIND."

Your ignorance and dis-honest claims are showing.

I don't use hot glue in the products I build. Never have. Where do you see any? I don't even own a glue gun.

The shame is on you for not being truthful. Get real! :nono: Dell

:lol::razz: maybe is the age... :lol:

So it's just like when you wrote you don't sell dowsing rods...

I think you need some phospor more in the pap, Dell! :lol:

Maybe you forget stuff... I see... I understand... :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

but the question is... if not you... WHO THE HELL MADE THIS ? :lol::razz:

Sorry I forgot you don't know... and also if know that... you probably forget that now... cause you need the chemical stuff in the pap! :lol:

Really I don't know why Clondyke Clad posted that stuff with hot melt glue around... must ask him! :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Geo]

Andreas where you are, you some advice from friend unfortunate given that the icons you've worked ..................

and geo? you have the iconos

I have the iconos.
Where is your problem????
I am here!!!!!!!!!

[Clondike Clad]

but the question is... if not you... WHO THE HELL MADE THIS ? :lol::razz:

Sorry I forgot you don't know... and also if know that... you probably forget that now... cause you need the chemical stuff in the pap! :lol:

Really I don't know why Clondyke Clad posted that stuff with hot melt glue around... must ask him! :rolleyes:
Just lookie at this
http://geotech.thunting.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=reports/vr800/index.dat
Kind regards,
Now Dell you tell me you don't own a glue gun?
I have glue guns and most electronic's people have glue guns
Now you tell me ,you YES YOU don't have a glue gun.
DELL STOP THE LIE.
Max NOW please stop the lie.

[Dell Winders]

So it's just like when you wrote you don't sell dowsing rods...
That's true. I have never sold any Rods intended for use for Mental Meta-physical Dowsing.

Since Dowsing Rods are usually held parallel with the ground, and the Rods I am using in the photo are angled towared the ground, it is obvious I am not Dowsing with the Rods in the photo. The dual Antenna rods I sell are intended to be used with LRL products. If you wish to use them for mental Dowsing, that is your perrogative, but not reccommended by me.

Really I don't know why Clondyke Clad posted that stuff with hot melt glue around... must ask him! :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

That's his twisted accusation. It's not my work. I didn't build it. Dell

[Qiaozhi]

Max, as I said,"

"THE DOOR TO KNOWLEDGE & UNDERSTANDING IS NEVER OPEN TO A CLOSED, OR PREJUDICED MIND."

Your ignorance and dis-honest claims are showing.

I don't use hot glue in the products I build. Never have. Where do you see any? I don't even own a glue gun.

The shame is on you for not being truthful. Get real! :nono: Dell
In the LRLs > Reports section of this website, there is a report on the DELL VR-800, and it states "The VR-800 is a so-called long-range locator (LRL) made by Dell Systems of Haines City, FL."
http://geotech.thunting.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=reports/vr800/index.dat
I don't know about you, but I can see a lot of hot glue inside this device.

Now ... maybe you actually didn't construct this thing with your own fair hands, and you paid someone else to do the building ... but you did sell this device. In which case, you're just being pedantic.

[Clondike Clad]

That's true. I have never sold any Rods intended for use for Mental Meta-physical Dowsing.

Since Dowsing Rods are usually held parallel with the ground, and the Rods I am using in the photo are angled towared the ground, it is obvious I am not Dowsing with the Rods in the photo. The dual Antenna rods I sell are intended to be used with LRL products. If you wish to use them for mental Dowsing, that is your perrogative, but not reccommended by me.



That's his twisted accusation. It's not my work. I didn't build it. Dell
Dell if I am twisted is that better than a scammer?
As you know and I repeat AS YOU KNOW your LRL works just like the others.
MONEY FOR THE SELLER only.
Why don't you take Carl's 25,000 and show us your stuff works.
Oh who is that man is not you??????
Why are you using him as you?
NOW DON'T LIE

[Kirk Chi]

Geo,
Is your ICONOS working?
I am not having good experience with ICONOS Gold Detector company.
They sent me a defective unit. Then after returning and sending more money, they sent me a fake courier traking number that does not exist. Now, they do not reply to my call or email.
Are you having better experience?

[Kirk Chi]

JP,
Thanks for the info on the Federal Trade Commision.
I will follow up.

[Geo]

Geo,
Is your ICONOS working?
I am not having good experience with ICONOS Gold Detector company.
They sent me a defective unit. Then after returning and sending more money, they sent me a fake courier traking number that does not exist. Now, they do not reply to my call or email.
Are you having better experience?

Hello.
I know other 3 persons that bought the Iconos. My detector is the first model with sensitivity check on the upper side. My Iconos is working OK. As i know one iconos has detected 4 -5 objectives. One other .... nothing and the third iconos working but as the owner said me he need long time to balance and to start to work.
But remember that Iconos can detect only old burried gold (as iconos says) but not fresh.
I want to believe that the "Iconos" company will send you a good detector
Regards:)

[Hardi]

Amazing Detector !!!!?
Yet, I could not understand how they could cheat people like this? ... LRL manufactures...
LRL equal =>
# - 10 years waiting just to see if the stuff realy detects or not?
... Who can bury a peace of gold and wait for 10 years or more. It is ossible to say 10 years of being the gold underground is not
enough for that kind (e.g. Iconos, Minero,. etc..) it is open for this kind of physics... at that time there will be not manafacture to return
you the money.
# - LRLs not let you be frustrated...! They beep as you like, in any direction, for any thing located any where !!!! ..... and it is open to
justify the situation. For example, you can complain in any direction that there must be a peace of gold starting from 1m to 12 Km (as
Minero stated) Who knows? Who can say not? If say not.....come and dig it ?
OK . I will dig but just tell me how much..... 1m or 2m or 100s of meters?. Nobody can dig?
So, LRLs realy works untill otherwise proved? It is open for justification....It works but need special experiences, special training an so
on and so forth.
It is exactly like if I say "THE PLACE WHERE PARKED MY BYCYCLE IS THE CENTER OF THE EARTH"
Can anybody prove that is not? If say not please come and measure it? Who can measure it? may be someone like those who
convised peaple to buy there stuff? may be. So, it is fact untill otherwise proved !
# - LRLs costs not too make.....Less than 100 $, So why several thousands for buying... If they sell it for 200$, nobody will buy it!
Be aware with LRLs ....does not detect......expencive...... not scientfically proved.... may be dowsing in an other way...frau d education
... and .... and it also open !!!!
:nono:

[Max]

Just lookie at this
http://geotech.thunting.com/cgi-bin/...r800/index.dat (http://geotech.thunting.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=reports/vr800/index.dat)


Hi,
thanks... I remember that pictures very well... but I made just rethoric question about the picture you posted, cause Dell say now he don't use hot melt glue... does not own a glue pistol etc... and sure will never admit he actually sold that unit we see at that link of above... Carl posted the famous pictures there. :rolleyes:

I remember that old story and so many times he wrote he had nothing to do with that unit! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Clondike Clad]

Max, as I said,"

"THE DOOR TO KNOWLEDGE & UNDERSTANDING IS NEVER OPEN TO A CLOSED, OR PREJUDICED MIND."

Your ignorance and dis-honest claims are showing.

I don't use hot glue in the products I build. Never have. Where do you see any? I don't even own a glue gun.

The shame is on you for not being truthful. Get real! :nono: Dell
Why are you faking your mug shot...whY WHY.....
Dell you talk like the snake oil men of old.
Today we call them scammers

[J_Player]

Perhaps it is time to tell the real story of the Dell Systems VR-800 Omnitron...

The real story of the VR-800 began to surface in the Geotech forum a couple of years back. After much evasiveness, Dell Winders finally admitted that he sold the vernell Electronics VR-800 LRLs under his own Dell Systems Omnitron label without telling his customers that it was one of the units he knew did not work. This is a long read, but the details can be found here:
http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=56194#post56194

If you read that thread carefully, the history of the VR-800 will become apparent. Here is the summary of what appears to have happened in the early days of LRLs before Dell Winders began selling the Dell Systems VR-800:

Vernell Rose was a TV repairman trained at the Motorola school to repair televisions. When people were becoming interested in long range metal detectors, Vernon Rose made a simple signal generator with a 555 timer and frequency adjustment pots as seen in the photos of the VR-800. There was no power amplifier. A handheld receiver utilizing a coil was carried out in front of where the transmitter was set up with the intent to find a change in received signal when near a treasure. The VR-800 was shown to be a non-working device by Carl's report here: http://geotech.thunting.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=reports/vr800/index.dat

But wait... Vernell Rose made this circuit long before Carl tested the Dell Systems VR-800, as Dell pointed out. Before the name VR-800 was attached to this circuit, Dell Winders decided to use Vernell's LRL to attempt to win the Randi prize at a Florida beach by finding coins hidden in the sand. When the test was over, he failed miserably, demonstrating the Vernell circuit did not work to locate coins for him in the 1987 Randi test. Dell then admitted in this forum that the Vernell Rose "forward gauss" instruments were not practical to use after the time of the Randi test: "I purchased 2 of the Vernell, Forward Gauss instruments with electronic receivers and used them successfully from a boat, aircraft, and on land until operating conditions deteriorated affecting the reliability of the instrument making it impractical for my use in 1988".
http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=54041

Sometime after the failed Randi test, Dell Winders accepted a shipment of Vernell's VR-800 locators branded as the Dell Systems (tm) Omnitron VR-800, and sold them to his customers. This is why we see Carl's VR-800 with the Dell Systems (tm) Omnitorn label.

The question arises: Why would Dell Winders sell thousands of dollars of worthless LRLs that he knew did not work to unsuspecting customers? Why not let Vernell do the dirty work of scamming the public? Dell gave an answer that could explain this: "Later, I assume to please me, and without my knowledge, Vernon had a batch of face plates printed with the "Omnitron", and "Dell" name on them. At least a dozen other manufacturers were calling their product an "Omnitron" or "Omini" some thing by that time, and one had applied for a copyright patent and received it against all my protest. So, it didn't really matter if Vernon Rose added the "Omnitron" name to his products for whatever reason, and I didn't have the heart to ask him not to use the face plates after he had already gone to the expense of having them made".
http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=56337

What the hail does this mean? Dell sold thousands of dollars of worthless LRLS because he didn't have the heart to make Vernon Rose throw out the face plates with his name on them? He would rather have innocent customers pay for non-working LRLs instead of booting Vernell out of his shop? Is this getting a little hard to believe?

So, according to Dell, he felt sorry for Vernon Rose for spending money to make up a batch of Dell Systems nameplates without his knowledge, and he felt obligated to sell Dell Systems Omnitrons to unsuspecting customers, so Vernon Rose would not be out the cost of making new Vernell Electronics nameplates? Does this sound reasonable to you? Shouldn't Dell be insulted and mad at Vernon for trying to peddle off non-working crap that cost him the Randi prize?

Just suppose... the reason Dell sold the Dell Systems Omnitron VR-800 was because he could see the profits that could be made by selling junk that cost $50 to produce. Is this the reason he didn't throw Vernell Rose out, and decided to sell his crap with the Dell Omnitron label?

Nobody will know the answer to that question except Dell Winders. But one thing for sure, Vernon Rose put the hot melt glue on the perf-board you see in the pictures. Not Dell Winders.

There is no doubt a lot more to this story than what I told. Dell has carefully concealed most of his dealings with Vernell Electronics. If anyone knows more about the truth of the Dell Systems Omnitron VR-800, feel free to jump in and add your bit.

[Dell Winders]

JPLAYER, YOU twist & LIE, Twist & LIE, Twist & LIE! WHY?

Add to that, the fact is the VR-800, was not
even thought of at the time, and was never used to take the Randi test. That was a ficticious story and photo concocted by Randi & Carl, for the same slanderous purpose you are pursuing now. Create enough smoke, and people will believe there is a fire.

I hope viewers here are intelligent enough to consider the source of the smoke. Dell

[putrechigi]

Hello.
I know other 3 persons that bought the Iconos. My detector is the first model with sensitivity check on the upper side. My Iconos is working OK. As i know one iconos has detected 4 -5 objectives. One other .... nothing and the third iconos working but as the owner said me he need long time to balance and to start to work.
But remember that Iconos can detect only old burried gold (as iconos says) but not fresh.
I want to believe that the "Iconos" company will send you a good detector
Regards:)


don't heat you it was alone to give a help to kirk chi and he has gotten him thanks

[Clondike Clad]

JPLAYER, YOU twist & LIE, Twist & LIE, Twist & LIE! WHY?

Add to that, the fact is the VR-800, was not
even thought of at the time, and was never used to take the Randi test. That was a ficticious story and photo concocted by Randi & Carl, for the same slanderous purpose you are pursuing now. Create enough smoke, and people will believe there is a fire.

I hope viewers here are intelligent enough to consider the source of the smoke. Dell

Who are you to talk when you don't use your own photo of your self.

[J_Player]

JPLAYER, YOU twist & LIE, Twist & LIE, Twist & LIE! WHY?
Add to that, the fact is the VR-800, was not even thought of at the time, and was never used to take the Randi test.Of course VR-800 was was not thought of at the time. This name was not attached to Vernell's 555 timer based LRLs until later when you began selling them. We all know Vernell was making electronic LRLs without a name except the general name of "Forward Gauss" that he used to describe his signal generators without a power amplifier. You never admitted this, and even tried to confuse people into thinking some software engineers came up with this name, not Vernon Rose: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=53993

If you read further into that thread, you will find you failed to shed any light on how Vernon Rose came to use his "Forward Gauss" description of his line of signal generators. When I asked you directly "can you tell us who did invent this term", You answered "I have made it clear from the beginning on this forum that I don't know anything about electronics and therefore I have no idea what "Forward Gauss" means".

It seems to me you avoided answering my question, knowing very well it was Vernon Rose. Instead you simply dismissed the question with the excuse that you know nothing about electronics. In that whole thread, you will find nowhere that Dell Winders gave any help to solve the mystery of how the name "Forward Gauss" came to be used with Vernon Rose's signal generator LRLs, and was continued when his son in-law took charge of this business. In fact you interjected false information that was misleading, and would have directed our attention away from Vernon Rose if we had believed you.

The question comes to mind: How could Dell Winders not have known that Vernon Rose chose "Forward Gauss" to describe his LRLs when he was selling Vernon Roses LRLs under his own label so many years ago? You don't need to know anything about electronics in order to remember what your old business associate named the electronic junk he manufactured. What motive would Dell Winders have to keep Vernon Rose's name out of the forum discussion? Was this part of Dell's policy to attempt to bury any information about Vernon Rose which could lead to his shady dealings with Vernell Electronics?

But what about the Randi test?
The Randi test has everything to do with your early dealings with Vernon Rose. The Randi test was to be the test that legitimized Vernon Rose's signal generators to prove they worked as an LRL, so you could gain the lead over other LRL manufacturers who were fiercely competing for this new hot market. But when you failed to find the coins hidden in the sand, it began to look like you would not have the publicity needed to promote these gizmoes. Next, Vernon Rose shows up with your "Dell Systems" branded gizmoes that used the same electronics in the Randi test. It appears the option you chose was to call Randi and anyone else who refused to believe the LRL finds treasure a liar. Isn't this exactly what you did? Was there too much money to be lost if you were to cancel the marketing of the VR-800?

We know the photos of the VR-800 were taken after the Randi test. Of course the name "VR-800" was not thought of at the time you were arranging the Randi test, but the electronics for it existed, and you used it in the Randi test. From what I can see, it appears this name was not assigned to Vernell's detectors until afterwards when they began assigning different model numbers to differentiate the different versions of the 555 timer and attached apparatus. You will see Vernell Electronics still sells the VR-800 today at a reduced price compared to their more expensive versions such as the "MagnaCast 5000" https://vernellelectronics.safenetserver.com/products.cfm
I can see I made at least one error in my earlier post. The VR-800 was sold with a pair of L-rods and ground probes, not a coil receiving antenna. Vernell's later variations switched to the coil receiver.

Tell us the truth, Dell...
So if you think this summary based on what you previously posted in this forum is incorrect, why not tell us more details of the real story behind your early dealings with Vernell Electronics, instead of calling me and everyone else a liar who thinks there's some truth buried in your old forum posts?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

It is exactly like if I say "THE PLACE WHERE PARKED MY BYCYCLE IS THE CENTER OF THE EARTH"
:nono:
This is similar to the claim that there is a tea tray in orbit around the Earth.
For the moment my claim is unsubstantiated, but you have to prove me wrong.

Both of these claims clearly demonstrate that the onus is on the claimant to prove their case, and not on everyone else to disprove it.

So - what better way to prove that LRLs really work, than to take the $25,000 challenge. Or - if you are a dowser - to take the $1M challenge. So far no-one has managed to claim either prize. Which only goes to show that it's all hogwash. :razz:

[Dell Winders]

But what about the Randi test?
The Randi test has everything to do with your early dealings with Vernon Rose. The Randi test was to be the test that legitimized Vernon Rose's signal generators to prove they worked as an LRL, so you could gain the lead over other LRL manufacturers who were fiercely competing for this new hot market. But when you failed to find the coins hidden in the sand, it began to look like you would not have the publicity needed to promote these gizmoes. Next, Vernon Rose shows up with your "Dell Systems" branded gizmoes that used the same electronics in the Randi test. It appears the option you chose was to call Randi and anyone else who refused to believe the LRL finds treasure a liar. Isn't this exactly what you did? Was there too much money to be lost if you were to cancel the marketing of the VR-800?

We know the photos of the VR-800 were taken after the Randi test. Of course the name "VR-800" was not thought of at the time you were arranging the Randi test, but the electronics for it existed, and you used it in the Randi test.

From what I can see, it appears this name was not assigned to Vernell's detectors until afterwards when they began assigning different model numbers to differentiate the different versions of the 555 timer and attached apparatus. You will see Vernell Electronics still sells the VR-800 today at a reduced price compared to their more expensive versions such as the "MagnaCast 5000" https://vernellelectronics.safenetse...m/products.cfm (https://vernellelectronics.safenetserver.com/products.cfm)
I can see I made at least one error in my earlier post. The VR-800 was sold with a pair of L-rods and ground probes, not a coil receiving antenna. Vernell's later variations switched to the coil receiver.

Wow! What a stupid imagination. You certainly aren't allowing fact, or truth to get in the way of your fictional report. There's certainly no evidence of rational thinking there.

WE KNOW?

If "WE" know so much, then, why did Randi & Carl, publish photos of Vernon Rose's VR-800, as the instrument I used in the Randi test? Think about it, and you will know who the real liars and schemers are on this forum.

THERE WAS NO INSTRUMENT BUILT BY VERNON ROSE, USED IN THE RANDI TEST. I WAS THERE, I KNOW.

So, why do you, Carl, Klondike, Qiaozhi, and Randi, continue to spew venomous lies. I have already told every one the truth, it can be proven in a court of law, and you are ignoring the facts to serve your own unscrupulous agenda that supports Carl, & Randi, in their lies.

Best Wishes. Dell

[J_Player]

You certainly aren't allowing fact, or truth to get in the way... So, why do you, Carl, Klondike, Qiaozhi, and Randi, continue to spew venomous lies.What you are calling lies are taken from what you posted as fact in this forum, Dell.

WE KNOW?Of course we know the photos of the VR-800 were taken after the Randi test. How could Carl or Randi take photos of an opened VR-800 before the test? Are you claiming they did take those photos before the Randi test?

We know Vernon Rose had made his electronic LRLs before that test because you told us he did. If this is a lie, then it is a lie you told, not us: "Vernon Rose is no doubt the original inventor. His instruments were fully electronic in 1979, and not intended for the market" http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=56296#post56296
You are now claiming you did not use anything built by Vernon Rose at the time of your Randi test?

When I say "We know", I am saying so because you told us it is a fact, or it can be easily deduced from what you told us. But for most of my summary, I stated "it appears...". This is because you have carefully concealed the details of your dealings in the matter of Vernell Electronics and Randi.

Tell us Dell, what is exactly the truth?
1. Did Vernon Rose build his electronic LRLs before your Randi test like you said or not?
2. If you did not use anything made by Vernon Rose to perform the Randi test, exactly what instruments did you use, Dell?
3. Did you sell thousands of dollars worth of VR-800 LRLs made by Vernell Electronics with your Dell Systems (tm) label or not?
4. What exactly were your hidden dealings with Vernon Rose and Vernell Electronics? What is the real reason you had Dell System labels on those Vernell LRLs you sold? Why did you sell them with your label, then refuse to take responsiblilty for the contents inside the box?
5. What proof do you have that would stand up in a court of law to prove Randi lied about you failing his test?
6. Why don't you go back and accept Randi's continued offer to you to claim his $1million? With today's technology, you could have a crowd of witnesses with inexpensive video cameras rolling to prove what really happens in a double blind test.

You have been quick to call us liars, and to say you have already told everyone the truth. But why does it sound like we only have heard half-truths? You never told the truth about the questions I asked. In fact you tried to conceal the answers, shifting the focus away from them. It is my belief you won't answer these questions either. Prove me wrong.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

Everything I have said is true. What you have deduced, assumed, presumed, rationalized, mis-construed, and otherwise taken out of context are your lies. That truthfully answers all the personal questions you have asked.

So allow me to ask a pertinent question of my own. What is your real name, physical address, telephone number, and employer. Dell

[Clondike Clad]

Everything I have said is true. What you have deduced, assumed, presumed, rationalized, mis-construed, and otherwise taken out of context are your lies. That truthfully answers all the personal questions you have asked.

So allow me to ask a pertinent question of my own. What is your real name, physical address, telephone number, and employer. Dell
Dell how low are you going.
We know who you are.
SO WHY LIE.

[J_Player]

Everything I have said is true. What you have deduced, assumed, presumed, rationalized, mis-construed, and otherwise taken out of context are your lies. That truthfully answers all the personal questions you have asked.WRONG, Dell...
You haven't answered any of the questions I asked. Here they are again:

Tell us Dell, what is exactly the truth?
1. Did Vernon Rose build his electronic LRLs before your Randi test like you said or not?
2. If you did not use anything made by Vernon Rose to perform the Randi test, exactly what instruments did you use, Dell?
3. Did you sell thousands of dollars worth of VR-800 LRLs made by Vernell Electronics with your Dell Systems (tm) label or not?
4. What exactly were your hidden dealings with Vernon Rose and Vernell Electronics? What is the real reason you had Dell System labels on those Vernell LRLs you sold? Why did you sell them with your label, then refuse to take responsibility for the contents inside the box?
5. What proof do you have that would stand up in a court of law to prove Randi lied about you failing his test?
6. Why don't you go back and accept Randi's continued offer to you to claim his $1million? With today's technology, you could have a crowd of witnesses with inexpensive video cameras rolling to prove what really happens in a double blind test.

Can you answer them this time?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

You haven't answered my questions.

If you know so much, then, why did Randi & Carl, publish photos of Vernon Rose's VR-800, as the instrument I used in the Randi test?

Answer the question truthfully (they are lieing) and you have the correct answers to your questions.


THERE WAS NO INSTRUMENT BUILT BY VERNON ROSE, USED IN THE RANDI TEST. I WAS THERE, I KNOW.

Were you there. Was Clondyke there? Was Carl there? If none of you were there, how would you know? Dell

[J_Player]

Hi Dell,
I see you still haven't answered any of the questions I asked. Here they are again:

Tell us Dell, what is exactly the truth?
1. Did Vernon Rose build his electronic LRLs before your Randi test like you said or not?
2. If you did not use anything made by Vernon Rose to perform the Randi test, exactly what instruments did you use, Dell?
3. Did you sell thousands of dollars worth of VR-800 LRLs made by Vernell Electronics with your Dell Systems (tm) label or not?
4. What exactly were your hidden dealings with Vernon Rose and Vernell Electronics? What is the real reason you had Dell System labels on those Vernell LRLs you sold? Why did you sell them with your label, then refuse to take responsibility for the contents inside the box?
5. What proof do you have that would stand up in a court of law to prove Randi lied about you failing his test?
6. Why don't you go back and accept Randi's continued offer to you to claim his $1million? With today's technology, you could have a crowd of witnesses with inexpensive video cameras rolling to prove what really happens in a double blind test.

Can you answer them this time?
Or should we assume I was right when I said "It is my belief you won't answer these questions either".

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

I have been neutrally observing those posts,but really what i have seen is Dell spending time answering posts to call everything lies , but not giving any usefull information.
I would like to see those question answered too,Dell i think your writing energy could be better used.

regards,
Fred.

[Clondike Clad]

I like this so much that we can learn a lot if you answer.

You were asked to answer SO WHAT IS STOPPING YOU.


Tell us Dell, what is exactly the truth?
1. Did Vernon Rose build his electronic LRLs before your Randi test like you said or not?
2. If you did not use anything made by Vernon Rose to perform the Randi test, exactly what instruments did you use, Dell?
3. Did you sell thousands of dollars worth of VR-800 LRLs made by Vernell Electronics with your Dell Systems (tm) label or not?
4. What exactly were your hidden dealings with Vernon Rose and Vernell Electronics? What is the real reason you had Dell System labels on those Vernell LRLs you sold? Why did you sell them with your label, then refuse to take responsibility for the contents inside the box?
5. What proof do you have that would stand up in a court of law to prove Randi lied about you failing his test?
6. Why don't you go back and accept Randi's continued offer to you to claim his $1million? With today's technology, you could have a crowd of witnesses with inexpensive video cameras rolling to prove what really happens in a double blind test.


YOU know answer please answer his or should I say now our questions

[Esteban]

Hello.
I know other 3 persons that bought the Iconos. My detector is the first model with sensitivity check on the upper side. My Iconos is working OK. As i know one iconos has detected 4 -5 objectives. One other .... nothing and the third iconos working but as the owner said me he need long time to balance and to start to work.
But remember that Iconos can detect only old burried gold (as iconos says) but not fresh.
I want to believe that the "Iconos" company will send you a good detector
Regards:)

You need to adjust every pistol and wait 1 minute for to stabilize all circuitry. During this time can occurs erratic. So, readjust other time and search. This is the explanation you need to readjust in compromise good sensibility and stability. Leave in very good sensibility point, but without erratics.

If beeping in an only area and compare not beeping and other, you're detected a conductive target.

I wish to test a Iconos!

Regards

Esteban

[Esteban]

Amazing Detector !!!!?
Yet, I could not understand how they could cheat people like this? ... LRL manufactures...
LRL equal =>
# - 10 years waiting just to see if the stuff realy detects or not?
... Who can bury a peace of gold and wait for 10 years or more. It is ossible to say 10 years of being the gold underground is not
enough for that kind (e.g. Iconos, Minero,. etc..) it is open for this kind of physics... at that time there will be not manafacture to return
you the money.
# - LRLs not let you be frustrated...! They beep as you like, in any direction, for any thing located any where !!!! ..... and it is open to
justify the situation. For example, you can complain in any direction that there must be a peace of gold starting from 1m to 12 Km (as
Minero stated) Who knows? Who can say not? If say not.....come and dig it ?
OK . I will dig but just tell me how much..... 1m or 2m or 100s of meters?. Nobody can dig?
So, LRLs realy works untill otherwise proved? It is open for justification....It works but need special experiences, special training an so
on and so forth.
It is exactly like if I say "THE PLACE WHERE PARKED MY BYCYCLE IS THE CENTER OF THE EARTH"
Can anybody prove that is not? If say not please come and measure it? Who can measure it? may be someone like those who
convised peaple to buy there stuff? may be. So, it is fact untill otherwise proved !
# - LRLs costs not too make.....Less than 100 $, So why several thousands for buying... If they sell it for 200$, nobody will buy it!
Be aware with LRLs ....does not detect......expencive...... not scientfically proved.... may be dowsing in an other way...frau d education
... and .... and it also open !!!!
:nono:

Hardi, no. Can be items stay in soil for 10 or less years, like coins and other lost objects.

[Clondike Clad]

Can you give us more info on you testing THANK
You seem to know a lot about other type of LRLs.

[Theseus]

I have been neutrally observing those posts,but really what i have seen is Dell spending time answering posts to call everything lies , but not giving any usefull information.

regards,
Fred.

To be sure, Dell has spent an entire lifetime, ducking, dodging, avoiding and side-stepping all questions and valid inquiries put to him, concerning his scam LRL products. He has actually honed his refusal to provide straight answers to valid questions, to a fine art. Dell is a master of at least two things, Wallet Mining and Avoidance of Issues (also known as telling the truth).

You see, true snake oil salesman, like Dell Winders, must always maintain the ruse no matter what he is faced with, even though we all know the truth of what he is hiding, and we know HE knows the truth. Nevertheless, the true LRL scammer must go to his grave, maintaining his "story". They know this is their best defense, should they ever end up in court.

You can ask questions of Dell Winders all you want, but he will never give you meaningful answer --only name-calling and BS rhetoric.

[Fred]

To be sure, Dell has spent an entire lifetime, ducking, dodging, avoiding and side-stepping all questions and valid inquiries put to him, concerning his scam LRL products.

I understand, but as i said i am neutral here and to make my own opinion, i want to rely on facts and explanations directly from him.

The fact that so simple and badly built stuff is sold so expensive is not very encouraging though...

Regards,
Fred.

[Esteban]

Can you give us more info on you testing THANK
You seem to know a lot about other type of LRLs.

I have buried 15 years a bronze disc 15 cm diameter. As I expected, mods. are for detect regular size items, no for small coins, for example. This bronze disc is detected from 4 meters. Is buried 30 cm depth. I sure no problem for treasure size targets.

Regards

Esteban

[Clondike Clad]

I have buried 15 years a bronze disc 15 cm diameter. As I expected, mods. are for detect regular size items, no for small coins, for example. This bronze disc is detected from 4 meters. Is buried 30 cm depth. I sure no problem for treasure size targets.

Regards

Esteban
Let us know what you find with the beast .

[Max]

I have buried 15 years a bronze disc 15 cm diameter. As I expected, mods. are for detect regular size items, no for small coins, for example. This bronze disc is detected from 4 meters. Is buried 30 cm depth. I sure no problem for treasure size targets.

Regards

Esteban

You sure have no problems. But others who have tryed to replicate your schematics at the end dropped all that stuff in the toilet and added plenty of water... :lol:

Who knows why ? :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

To be sure, Dell has spent an entire lifetime, ducking, dodging, avoiding and side-stepping all questions and valid inquiries put to him, concerning his scam LRL products. He has actually honed his refusal to provide straight answers to valid questions, to a fine art. Dell is a master of at least two things, Wallet Mining and Avoidance of Issues (also known as telling the truth).

You see, true snake oil salesman, like Dell Winders, must always maintain the ruse no matter what he is faced with, even though we all know the truth of what he is hiding, and we know HE knows the truth. Nevertheless, the true LRL scammer must go to his grave, maintaining his "story". They know this is their best defense, should they ever end up in court.

You can ask questions of Dell Winders all you want, but he will never give you meaningful answer --only name-calling and BS rhetoric.



Hi,
yes I think that Dell is one kind of heritage from past times...and old snake oil seller and maybe need some Unesco protection... just like that old outhouses from the old west! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

You sure have no problems. But others who have tryed to replicate your schematics at the end dropped all that stuff in the toilet and added plenty of water... :lol:

Who knows why ? :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

No remember I was post MY schematic(s). The only I remember was the Zahori without complications, simple mods.

Don't worry, schematics invade also bathroom, ready for use! Ha, ha! :lol:

Regards

Esteban

[Qiaozhi]

To be sure, Dell has spent an entire lifetime, ducking, dodging, avoiding and side-stepping all questions and valid inquiries put to him, concerning his scam LRL products. He has actually honed his refusal to provide straight answers to valid questions, to a fine art. Dell is a master of at least two things, Wallet Mining and Avoidance of Issues (also known as telling the truth).

You see, true snake oil salesman, like Dell Winders, must always maintain the ruse no matter what he is faced with, even though we all know the truth of what he is hiding, and we know HE knows the truth. Nevertheless, the true LRL scammer must go to his grave, maintaining his "story". They know this is their best defense, should they ever end up in court.

You can ask questions of Dell Winders all you want, but he will never give you meaningful answer --only name-calling and BS rhetoric.

Yes , exactly! This is the nub of the problem. When you've spread lies for so long, it's very hard to admit the truth.

[putrechigi]

I also renew the application to dell winders I don't have 10000 dollars but a lot of places whether to make a will the best his/her lrl if and' happy I will pay her' the ticket and the hotel for a week everything suit in my city', but attention the reimbursement will happen' only at the end and after naturally has given test that its lrl works, I assure the maximum seriousness' and impartiality'

you look at these coordinates 42°40'08.23N 11°54'23.73E on goolge hearth is an abandoned village in 1756 here a lot of things have been found and a lot of is possible to find underground still the test he could be done

putre

[Tim Williams]

http://ezinearticles.com/?Defamation-and-Slander-on-the-Internet&id=422889

[Dell Winders]

I also renew the application to dell winders I don't have 10000 dollars but a lot of places whether to make a will the best his/her lrl if and' happy I will pay her' the ticket and the hotel for a week everything suit in my city', but attention the reimbursement will happen' only at the end and after naturally has given test that its lrl works, I assure the maximum seriousness' and impartiality'

you look at these coordinates 42°40'08.23N 11°54'23.73E on goolge hearth is an abandoned village in 1756 here a lot of things have been found and a lot of is possible to find underground still the test he could be done

putre

Putre,
I may not be understanding this correctly, but the way I am reading, it appears you would like for me to travel to Italy, to find Treasure for you with My LRL, pay my own expenses, and if the LRL works to your satisfication and I find the Treasure, you will reimburse all my expenses? Is that correct? Dell

[Dell Winders]

I also renew the application to dell winders I don't have 10000 dollars but a lot of places whether to make a will the best his/her lrl if and' happy I will pay her' the ticket and the hotel for a week everything suit in my city', but attention the reimbursement will happen' only at the end and after naturally has given test that its lrl works, I assure the maximum seriousness' and impartiality'

you look at these coordinates 42°40'08.23N 11°54'23.73E on goolge hearth is an abandoned village in 1756 here a lot of things have been found and a lot of is possible to find underground still the test he could be done

putre

Putre,
I may not be understanding this correctly, but the way I am reading, it appears you would like for me to travel to Italy, to find Treasure for you with My LRL, pay my own expenses, and if the LRL works to your satisfication and I find the Treasure, you will reimburse all my expenses? Is that correct? Dell

[putrechigi]

any treasure, enough only that I/you/he/she find in front of my eyes something that is not nails or garbage of this kind but noble metals any treasure for me it goes only also very well a small coin but it has to feel her/it to a certain distance and depth' to say to be a real lrl ok? only true test

[Max]

Putre,
I may not be understanding this correctly, but the way I am reading, it appears you would like for me to travel to Italy, to find Treasure for you with My LRL, pay my own expenses, and if the LRL works to your satisfication and I find the Treasure, you will reimburse all my expenses? Is that correct? Dell

Hi,
yes I understand it about same way... maybe it's good if you travel a bit and forget about melting the glue for a while... :lol: The fumes are also toxic! :rolleyes:

Oh... sorry you are "Mr. Roarke" and your little "Tatoo" actually melt the glue for you... and smoke fumes... :cool:

Well the offer I think is not truly relative to a treasure... maybe he meant that there are old buried stuff... also no value stuff I think, but you just putre can answer about or give some hints I think.

Think you could make jogging in the ancient Rome routes.... seems not so bad idea but unfortunately I haven't any LRL like you have so the offer is for you Dell! :lol:

But if you have to make such a travel just to show him that you cannot find coins... like in the Florida beach old story ...well better if you stay there and continue melting the glue with Tatoo! :razz:

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

It seems to me putrechigi is offering to pay the travel cost and hotel cost if Dell Winders travels to Italy and recovers non-trash treasure with his LRLs. I would assume that any treasure Dell recovers is his to keep. Is this correct, putrechigi?

If this correctly describes putrechigi's offer, then he is asking Dell to come to Italy and recover treasure in front of witnesses watching, and then take home the treasure with him after the recovery. Putrechigi also specified that Dell could use his LRLs or have other persons (I/you/he/she) operate his LRLs to find the treasure. Then after Dell recovers non-trash treasure (not nails or other trash, but noble metals or small coin that was detected at sufficient distance to be classified as long range), he is reimbursed for his travel cost and room.

It appears Dell is asking questions about the reimbursement to determine his costs in the case his LRLs fail to find any treasure. Here is a quick summary of the travel costs shown on Expedia:

2200 Round trip air travel from Tampa to Rome for 1 senior
164 Midsize car rental from Rome - 1 week
350 Single room rate for 7 days at Hotel Columbus, about 4 miles from the treasure site.
----
2714 Total travel and room cost *(this could be less depending on arrangements that pitrichigi might make)


So we see the travel costs are about $2700. This means putrechigi will pay Dell $2700 after he sees Dell using his LRL to find and recover treasure from long range with his LRLs. Not only that, Dell will also take home the treasure he recovers. This could be anything from small coins to huge solid gold statues.

But if Dell fails to find and recover actual treasure with his LRLs from long distance, then he goes home after paying to take a nice vacation at a beautiful lake in Italy.

Hmmmm.... If Dell returned after failing to find any treasure, would he post in the Geotech forum that putrechigi is a liar like he did for Randi?
:eek::eek::eek:

Best wishes,
J_P


pricing sources
http://www.expedia.com/pub/agent.dll?qscr=fexp&flag=q&city1=tampa&citd1=rome&date1=6/15/2008&time1=362&date2=6/22/2008&time2=362&cAdu=&cSen=1&cChi=&cInf=&infs=2&tktt=&trpt=2&ecrc=&eccn=&qryt=8&bund=1&load=1&airp1=&dair1=&cknd=1&rdct=1&rfrr=-429
http://www.expedia.com/pub/agent.dll?qscr=cars&dagv=1&subm=1&fdrp=0&styp=1&locn=ROME&date1=6/15/2008&date2=6/22/2008&vend=&kind=1&time1=660&time2=660&ttyp=2&acop=2&rdct=1&rfrr=-906
http://www.bbplanet.it/hotel-columbus-bolsena-lake-bolsena_s4260/en/

[Fred]

Hi JP,
I´m afraid you forgot something :Restaurant.Dell looks like someone who likes good meals.:D

Regards,
Fred.

[Geo]

Very good offer from Putrechigi, but if there is not treasure???????????
Is he so sure about the treasure..........

[putrechigi]

It seems to me putrechigi is offering to pay the travel cost and hotel cost if Dell Winders travels to Italy and recovers non-trash treasure with his LRLs. I would assume that any treasure Dell recovers is his to keep. Is this correct, putrechigi?

If this correctly describes putrechigi's offer, then he is asking Dell to come to Italy and recover treasure in front of witnesses watching, and then take home the treasure with him after the recovery. Putrechigi also specified that Dell could use his LRLs or have other persons (I/you/he/she) operate his LRLs to find the treasure. Then after Dell recovers non-trash treasure (not nails or other trash, but noble metals or small coin that was detected at sufficient distance to be classified as long range), he is reimbursed for his travel cost and room.

It appears Dell is asking questions about the reimbursement to determine his costs in the case his LRLs fail to find any treasure. Here is a quick summary of the travel costs shown on Expedia:

2200 Round trip air travel from Tampa to Rome for 1 senior
164 Midsize car rental from Rome - 1 week
350 Single room rate for 7 days at Hotel Columbus, about 4 miles from the treasure site.
----
2714 Total travel and room cost *(this could be less depending on arrangements that pitrichigi might make)


So we see the travel costs are about $2700. This means putrechigi will pay Dell $2700 after he sees Dell using his LRL to find and recover treasure from long range with his LRLs. Not only that, Dell will also take home the treasure he recovers. This could be anything from small coins to huge solid gold statues.

But if Dell fails to find and recover actual treasure with his LRLs from long distance, then he goes home after paying to take a nice vacation at a beautiful lake in Italy.

Hmmmm.... If Dell returned after failing to find any treasure, would he post in the Geotech forum that putrechigi is a liar like he did for Randi?
:eek::eek::eek:

Best wishes,
J_P




pricing sources
http://www.expedia.com/pub/agent.dll?qscr=fexp&flag=q&city1=tampa&citd1=rome&date1=6/15/2008&time1=362&date2=6/22/2008&time2=362&cAdu=&cSen=1&cChi=&cInf=&infs=2&tktt=&trpt=2&ecrc=&eccn=&qryt=8&bund=1&load=1&airp1=&dair1=&cknd=1&rdct=1&rfrr=-429
http://www.expedia.com/pub/agent.dll?qscr=cars&dagv=1&subm=1&fdrp=0&styp=1&locn=ROME&date1=6/15/2008&date2=6/22/2008&vend=&kind=1&time1=660&time2=660&ttyp=2&acop=2&rdct=1&rfrr=-906
http://www.bbplanet.it/hotel-columbus-bolsena-lake-bolsena_s4260/en/

YOU ARE THE BEST!! YES I WANT TO WRITE THIS, BUT ONLY ONE POINT, I PAY HALL ONLY IF HE FIND REALLY AT LONG DISTANCE 2 meter minimum (I think no tresure in the hold destroied village but many many silver coins bronze coin gold coins with my tesoro tejon i find many but is forest and the ground is never worked soo if you aven't a lrl no possible find moore ) IF HE DON'T FIND HE PAY HALL AND HE WACH REALLY BEAUTIFUL ITALY COUNTRY at 124 km nord from rome( watch from google )
putre

[putrechigi]

It seems to me putrechigi is offering to pay the travel cost and hotel cost if Dell Winders travels to Italy and recovers non-trash treasure with his LRLs. I would assume that any treasure Dell recovers is his to keep. Is this correct, putrechigi?

If this correctly describes putrechigi's offer, then he is asking Dell to come to Italy and recover treasure in front of witnesses watching, and then take home the treasure with him after the recovery. Putrechigi also specified that Dell could use his LRLs or have other persons (I/you/he/she) operate his LRLs to find the treasure. Then after Dell recovers non-trash treasure (not nails or other trash, but noble metals or small coin that was detected at sufficient distance to be classified as long range), he is reimbursed for his travel cost and room.

It appears Dell is asking questions about the reimbursement to determine his costs in the case his LRLs fail to find any treasure. Here is a quick summary of the travel costs shown on Expedia:

2200 Round trip air travel from Tampa to Rome for 1 senior
164 Midsize car rental from Rome - 1 week
350 Single room rate for 7 days at Hotel Columbus, about 4 miles from the treasure site.
----
2714 Total travel and room cost *(this could be less depending on arrangements that pitrichigi might make)


So we see the travel costs are about $2700. This means putrechigi will pay Dell $2700 after he sees Dell using his LRL to find and recover treasure from long range with his LRLs. Not only that, Dell will also take home the treasure he recovers. This could be anything from small coins to huge solid gold statues.

But if Dell fails to find and recover actual treasure with his LRLs from long distance, then he goes home after paying to take a nice vacation at a beautiful lake in Italy.

Hmmmm.... If Dell returned after failing to find any treasure, would he post in the Geotech forum that putrechigi is a liar like he did for Randi?
:eek::eek::eek:

Best wishes,
J_P




pricing sources
http://www.expedia.com/pub/agent.dll?qscr=fexp&flag=q&city1=tampa&citd1=rome&date1=6/15/2008&time1=362&date2=6/22/2008&time2=362&cAdu=&cSen=1&cChi=&cInf=&infs=2&tktt=&trpt=2&ecrc=&eccn=&qryt=8&bund=1&load=1&airp1=&dair1=&cknd=1&rdct=1&rfrr=-429
http://www.expedia.com/pub/agent.dll?qscr=cars&dagv=1&subm=1&fdrp=0&styp=1&locn=ROME&date1=6/15/2008&date2=6/22/2008&vend=&kind=1&time1=660&time2=660&ttyp=2&acop=2&rdct=1&rfrr=-906
http://www.bbplanet.it/hotel-columbus-bolsena-lake-bolsena_s4260/en/

YOU ARE THE BEST!! YES I WANT TO WRITE THIS, BUT ONLY ONE POINT, I PAY HALL ONLY IF HE FIND REALLY AT LONG DISTANCE 2 meter minimum (I think no tresure in the hold destroied village but many many silver coins bronze coin gold coins with my tesoro tejon i find many but is forest and the ground is never worked soo if you aven't a lrl no possible find moore ) IF HE DON'T FIND HE PAY HALL AND HE WACH REALLY BEAUTIFUL ITALY COUNTRY at 124 km nord from rome( watch from google )
putre

P.S. this is the same thing that I wrote to icons and mineoro but I have not yet responded to 1 years from now I do not want to do with geo:):) controversy but I do not think if someone like icons or mineoro was sincere was so much effort to accept

DELL this test you can do with J.player or other forum who live in America if you do not want to come to Italy and bet that a vacancy exists, the sterile polemics are not producing anything in the world of seekers only the facts count

LOOK THIS is enather medieval village(the list is very long ) destroied in 1600 afther the strog warr is very beuatiful you can see the churc in the centre, and other build

42°18'39.26"N 11°57'03.55"E

best reguards at Hall

[putrechigi]

sorry for two time i write at MORGAN too but it is not even him

[Qiaozhi]

According to Dell, he can pinpoint the location of your treasure without leaving his kitchen table ... by using mental dowsing. How's that for armchair treasure hunting? Not to mention long-range locating. :lol:
Just give Dell the location details, and he can print out a map from Google. Then he can email the details to you, and you can post his share of the treasure by return. :razz:

[putrechigi]

the iconos make a second lrl wo will buy it? may be with this they go in my country for the test:razz::razz::razz: or not?:lol::lol:.

http://www.iconos-md.eu./iconos-md.htm

ICONS we wait you news

[putrechigi]

I have see the leds for target in other lrl :???::???:but i don't remeber where:):) I think:eek::eek::eek::eek:......................... . but is not possible:razz::razz::razz::razz:

best reguards

[Max]

I have see the leds for target in other lrl :???::???:but i don't remeber where:):) I think:eek::eek::eek::eek:......................... . but is not possible:razz::razz::razz::razz:

best reguards

Hi,
sure... there are always plenty of leds in those things... problem is that they light up at random! :lol: So they signal nothing apart some noise or a far storm...

I think these LRL are some of the more unuseful things man ever invented (apart the fraud/scam intentions... in which case they work very good!) like a book on how to read... or a water proof tea bag... :lol: or the condom flavoured condom :lol: or soleless shoes or a pedal-less bicycle or a car without wheels! :D
Some of the more idiotic assumption I've ever seen are in these threads about LRL and dowsing... but seems anyway people enjoy having some fun with those jokers (like me) just cause the topic is itself funny...

You know... it's like a cartoon and they are like those funny idiotic inventors lead to demential addiction to solder paste....and plenty of wires...that always fail the main purpose but do something different like flashing a led! :rolleyes:

They are like Inspector Gadget... :razz:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Hi,
sure... there are always plenty of leds in those things... problem is that they light up at random! :lol: So they signal nothing apart some noise or a far storm...

I think these LRL are some of the more unuseful things man ever invented (apart the fraud/scam intentions... in which case they work very good!) like a book on how to read... or a water proof tea bag... :lol: or the condom flavoured condom :lol: or soleless shoes or a pedal-less bicycle or a car without wheels! :D
Some of the more idiotic assumption I've ever seen are in these threads about LRL and dowsing... but seems anyway people enjoy having some fun with those jokers (like me) just cause the topic is itself funny...

You know... it's like a cartoon and they are like those funny idiotic inventors lead to demential addiction to solder paste....and plenty of wires...that always fail the main purpose but do something different like flashing a led! :rolleyes:

They are like Inspector Gadget... :razz:

Kind regards,
Max

At this long range price, I'll start to sell!!! :lol:

[Esteban]

I have see the leds for target in other lrl :???::???:but i don't remeber where:):) I think:eek::eek::eek::eek:......................... . but is not possible:razz::razz::razz::razz:

best reguards

Ehhh!!! :eek::eek::eek: Maybe you're right.

[Esteban]

Claim 200 meters, etc., but the truth is this: when humidity is 75-80 % in air (not the same after rain, this not mean total humidity, the theme is total environmental humidity) long range detection is near zero. Humidity is an important factor. So, the sellers will added this information in his pages (If Iconos know this, but sure they don't know it) :nono:. I have instruments for measure pressure, humidity and temp. in door of labo and I can comprobe this. Environmental conditions are very important. Correction: are the more important!

[Fred]

You know... it's like a cartoon and they are like those funny idiotic inventors lead to demential addiction to solder paste....and plenty of wires...that always fail the main purpose but do something different like flashing a led! :rolleyes:

They are like Inspector Gadget... :razz:

Kind regards,
Max
You know what?...nothing is impossible ;)
regards,
Fred.

[Max]

You know what?...nothing is impossible ;)
regards,
Fred.

Hi,
:lol: I see... but this man seems like gadget for real ! and fly away ! :D

But I'm sure you will understand that making fly a man is pretty easy compared with detecting a coin buried at 1meter depth from 1Km distance! :lol: Same apply to a 2 meters far buried coin...

I could belive also some donkey fly but not that an LRL truly exist or can be made and expecially by these prophets of the hot melt glue. :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[putrechigi]

hi at hall some my friends in this forum have know what i want to said from iconos......;););) but i make joke:rolleyes::rolleyes: some doubt i have but ............ this is not the problem, the problem is if somebody buy and pay 6.500 euro and after he don't work:frown::frown::frown::frown:!!!!! considered that only in Italy if it really work they have thousands of buyers (i'm the first!:)) but how is possible not have the same problems that had kirk-chi? at you the comment.

P.S. hi esteban you are the first friend that i have call for to came in italy, when you go at your parents in piemonte? i know the tiket is very expensive but with the good lrl in one week we pay 10 tiket in first class i'm sure ;););) and you eat the most 'good Italian porchetta naturally is for hall of forum tha want too meet me

[Fred]

Hi,
But I'm sure you will understand that making fly a man is pretty easy compared with detecting a coin buried at 1meter depth from 1Km distance! :lol: Same apply to a 2 meters far buried coin...
I could belive also some donkey fly but not that an LRL truly exist or can be made and expecially by these prophets of the hot melt glue. :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max
hi Max,
Yes i know..i agree.
But there may be some effect that is not well understood, and most important NOT RELIABLE enought to be used on a regular basis.I dont know, but i dont reject that...
BTW this "helicopter" is for real and for sell- manufactured in small quantity.Really cool but expensive!!

... the problem is if somebody buy and pay 6.500 euro and after he don't work:frown::frown::frown::frown:!!!!! considered that only in Italy if it really work they have thousands of buyers (i'm the first!:)) but how is possible not have the same problems that had kirk-chi? at you the comment.
Exactly.If it really worked the would not need to sell it so expensive.building costs are low,so they could sell thouthands of them very quickly.Why is that always so complicated to get proofs that those LRL´s works ? When a new metal detector goes on the market,reviews are done,users share their opinions and everyone can know if and how well it works.
With LRL´s this NEVER happened,not once.Dont you think strange?
And if you could get a working LRL, would you sell it, or keep it to find treasures to get rich ?

Regards,
Fred.

[putrechigi]

you are right :):) now i whait the test of minelab gp 4500 many person said that is very good in discrimination and power the minelab is serious industries they pay alot of money for the test and tecnology in the metal detector, for me is the best, but very very very expensive:frown::frown: from GP series, they are cunning, every year exit one metal little more power that old and if you want to find moore you must buy new:frown::frown: but the metal work ,and good work, not problem for warranty and seriousness':):):):) i start with sovereign and after explore every two is good ,now i buy tesoro tejon good report quality price, but minelab is the one;);):ml:

best reguards

[Max]

hi Max,
Yes i know..i agree.
But there may be some effect that is not well understood, and most important NOT RELIABLE enought to be used on a regular basis.I dont know, but i dont reject that...
BTW this "helicopter" is for real and for sell- manufactured in small quantity.Really cool but expensive!!


Exactly.If it really worked the would not need to sell it so expensive.building costs are low,so they could sell thouthands of them very quickly.Why is that always so complicated to get proofs that those LRL´s works ? When a new metal detector goes on the market,reviews are done,users share their opinions and everyone can know if and how well it works.
With LRL´s this NEVER happened,not once.Dont you think strange?
And if you could get a working LRL, would you sell it, or keep it to find treasures to get rich ?

Regards,
Fred.

Hi,
could be some effect not well understud... I don't discuss that, simply don't know about.

What I found funny is that every schematic posted or reversed enginnered failed so far... and people talking of working LRL are always the same, probably involved in the business.

Simply you cannot reproduce the "phenomena" they talk about.

I think all LRL on the market are scams, cause nobody could demonstrate anything with them... so the customer that buy one will end up with a totally useless device, will just spend money to make richer the "manifacturers" and will find nothing just using LRL... but need always a conventional MD to find stuff.

The conclusion is clear for me: the LRLs serve nothing apart for fraud custormers and let them belive in dreams of pinpointing a coin from meters away.

I saw some of them on the field... are just randomic beepers and you will not find anything with them. Some I built myself like zahori to test if anything works... and zahori doesn't detect water flows... so the idea it could detect gold or diamonds is plain absurd speculation made by people who have interests in LRL and probably are self-convinced them work... but it isn't.

Kind regards,
Max

[Clondike Clad]

This means practice until a degree of expertise is acquired. The balance of success is about 20 percent instrument and 80 percent operator ( This is from Dell's web site on the Pro4)
Anyone worked with the Dell Pro4 I would like to know what the 80 percent operator ( is it learn the unit,a feeling,etc) what is the 20 percent of the Pro4( Is it control setting etc)

[Esteban]

Hi,
could be some effect not well understud... I don't discuss that, simply don't know about.

What I found funny is that every schematic posted or reversed enginnered failed so far... and people talking of working LRL are always the same, probably involved in the business.

Simply you cannot reproduce the "phenomena" they talk about.

I think all LRL on the market are scams, cause nobody could demonstrate anything with them... so the customer that buy one will end up with a totally useless device, will just spend money to make richer the "manifacturers" and will find nothing just using LRL... but need always a conventional MD to find stuff.

The conclusion is clear for me: the LRLs serve nothing apart for fraud custormers and let them belive in dreams of pinpointing a coin from meters away.

I saw some of them on the field... are just randomic beepers and you will not find anything with them. Some I built myself like zahori to test if anything works... and zahori doesn't detect water flows... so the idea it could detect gold or diamonds is plain absurd speculation made by people who have interests in LRL and probably are self-convinced them work... but it isn't.

Kind regards,
Max

Yes, you can reproduce the phenomenon is you bury a couple of coins (bronze is a cheap option) in your garden and wait for his "apparition". But, while, there are enormeous sources of old targets that "emits" the "phenomenon". :D

I don't know if the "phenomenon" is possible in presence of snow or extreme cold (here in my country never you'll see snow). I think no.

Max, believe me, if you insist in a direction in any field you're persistent, you'll obtain incredivel results! I tell you with sincerity. :)

Regards

Esteban

[Qiaozhi]

This means practice until a degree of expertise is acquired. The balance of success is about 20 percent instrument and 80 percent operator ( This is from Dell's web site on the Pro4)
Anyone worked with the Dell Pro4 I would like to know what the 80 percent operator ( is it learn the unit,a feeling,etc) what is the 20 percent of the Pro4( Is it control setting etc)
I think the 80% operator is referring to the IQ of the user. ;)

[Qiaozhi]

I think all LRL on the market are scams, cause nobody could demonstrate anything with them... so the customer that buy one will end up with a totally useless device, will just spend money to make richer the "manifacturers" and will find nothing just using LRL... but need always a conventional MD to find stuff.
You probably meant to say "intentional scams", and I agree that many of the LRLs advertised do indeed appear to be intentional scams. However, in some cases, it may be true the sellers really believe that their devices actually work. This is a process of self-delusion, that is all too common amongst human beings.

The conclusion is clear for me: the LRLs serve nothing apart for fraud custormers and let them belive in dreams of pinpointing a coin from meters away.
Personally, I wouldn't buy one either.

I saw some of them on the field... are just randomic beepers and you will not find anything with them. Some I built myself like zahori to test if anything works... and zahori doesn't detect water flows... so the idea it could detect gold or diamonds is plain absurd speculation made by people who have interests in LRL and probably are self-convinced them work... but it isn't.
I have tested the Mineoro FG80 a couple of times, and it's just not possible to take this device seriously. Complete random beeping in all directions. Even if you get a consistent beep (as sometimes occurs) it's impossible to tell whether the signal originates from the front or the back of the detector, so which direction should you walk? The best direction would be back to the shop where you bought it, and ask for your money back.

Esteban appears to be a special case, and I would like nothing more than to go treasure hunting with him, and actually see the acclaimed pistol detection in action. My suspicion is that there is an element of mind trickery at work, and this will only be confirmed by double-blind testing.

[Max]

You probably meant to say "intentional scams", and I agree that many of the LRLs advertised do indeed appear to be intentional scams. However, in some cases, it may be true the sellers really believe that their devices actually work. This is a process of self-delusion, that is all too common amongst human beings.


Personally, I wouldn't buy one either.


I have tested the Mineoro FG80 a couple of times, and it's just not possible to take this device seriously. Complete random beeping in all directions. Even if you get a consistent beep (as sometimes occurs) it's impossible to tell whether the signal originates from the front or the back of the detector, so which direction should you walk? The best direction would be back to the shop where you bought it, and ask for your money back.

Esteban appears to be a special case, and I would like nothing more than to go treasure hunting with him, and actually see the acclaimed pistol detection in action. My suspicion is that there is an element of mind trickery at work, and this will only be confirmed by double-blind testing.

Hi,
"Esteban appears to be a special case, and I would like nothing more than to go treasure hunting with him, and actually see the acclaimed pistol detection in action. My suspicion is that there is an element of mind trickery at work, and this will only be confirmed by double-blind testing."

well... if so...you just need a ticket and go in Paraguay.... I think :lol:
not cause he will provide you serious demonstration that his LRLs work for real... but just cause there's the usual claim devices work just in particular climate or "locations" like South America etc so you cannot test in the UK even if Mr. Esteban wanna travel there to show you that device works! :rolleyes:

I think this endless stories around working LRLs are just part of immagination of them... others are just fraud-related and so we can say... one way or another LRLs don't work really.

The simple fact one cannot have a consistent way of repeating the experience if same conditions match tell us the "phenomena" is just that they think the "phenomena" exist... so just their thought about what device do... but not a real scientific fact.

If I switch on my MD and start searching I always detect the same coin at same place buried no matter of weather :lol:... so I can say it works, otherwise how I can do that ? If one day my MD say the target is there... the next day not... the next month yes again... then I dig a meter of soil and found nothing how the hell I can say device works !? :D

The inconsistence of any LRL, also of those claimed working that I think are not, is a proof that them really don't work at all.

Or we can consider faint and vanishing spot beeps as real target detection ? How to prove we have target detection and not just instability or noise detection ? I think those LRL people will never give such an answer... cause simply they can't. :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

Hi Max,

Just for the fun,
Imagine that one or two days per week only , at the same place and same conditions the LRL detects a target ? How would you call this ?
:D
Regards,
Fred.

[Max]

Hi Max,

Just for the fun,
Imagine that one or two days per week only , at the same place and same conditions the LRL detects a target ? How would you call this ?
:D
Regards,
Fred.

? just for the fun... did you see it really or we are playing some RPG here ?
:lol:

[putrechigi]

hi at hall some my friends in this forum have know what i want to said from iconos......;););) but i make joke:rolleyes::rolleyes: some doubt i have but ............ this is not the problem, the problem is if somebody buy and pay 6.500 euro and after he don't work:frown::frown::frown::frown:!!!!! considered that only in Italy if it really work they have thousands of buyers (i'm the first!:)) but how is possible not have the same problems that had kirk-chi? at you the comment.

P.S. hi esteban you are the first friend that i have call for to came in italy, when you go at your parents in piemonte? i know the tiket is very expensive but with the good lrl in one week we pay 10 tiket in first class i'm sure ;););) and you eat the most 'good Italian porchetta naturally is for hall of forum tha want too meet me


thanks esteban for the answer

[Max]

thanks esteban for the answer

Oh yeah! ;) The porchetta's bread rolls :rolleyes:... are well worth the expense for ticket if made the right way... and in Rome I remember so nice taste of them... but not for anyone! :nono:

Someone don't like them cause are considered too low-end products... you know... people like Dell like maybe McDonald's or something like real restaurants (there are very good in Rome) but I'm about sure he will never try the porchetta taste... and better this way... cause there's DANG ENORMOUS quantity of table salt inside that thing, not so healthy for a fatty man...:shocked:

If I remember well there's a low salt line in McDonald's or I remember it wrong ??? BUT IS NOT THE SAME TASTE GUYS! :D

Don't know Esteban... but I'd like one of those porchetta's burgers right now... :lol: and a bottle of good Castelli Romani wine... :cool: or Frascati too

I like these PANINOs and wine stuff...very much! :D The usual tourist forget about essentials of the country... and popular dishes and street food are an important part of them.

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

thanks esteban for the answer

Thanks for the invitation! You're a good guy! :)

[Esteban]

Oh yeah! ;) The porchetta's bread rolls :rolleyes:... are well worth the expense for ticket if made the right way... and in Rome I remember so nice taste of them... but not for anyone! :nono:

Someone don't like them cause are considered too low-end products... you know... people like Dell like maybe McDonald's or something like real restaurants (there are very good in Rome) but I'm about sure he will never try the porchetta taste... and better this way... cause there's DANG ENORMOUS quantity of table salt inside that thing, not so healthy for a fatty man...:shocked:

If I remember well there's a low salt line in McDonald's or I remember it wrong ??? BUT IS NOT THE SAME TASTE GUYS! :D

Don't know Esteban... but I'd like one of those porchetta's burgers right now... :lol: and a bottle of good Castelli Romani wine... :cool: or Frascati too

I like these PANINOs and wine stuff...very much! :D The usual tourist forget about essentials of the country... and popular dishes and street food are an important part of them.

Kind regards,
Max

Don't like the table salt, no in great quantity, but lemmon instead salt.

In this moment, prefer a hot and very red borscht! Wine? Here great variety of Argentine and Chilean wines. The cheapest city of the world is Asunción. A regular (but good for me:lol:) Santa Carolina wine (Chilean) cost only US$ 4!

[putrechigi]

hi to all on lrl I am not sure but my roast pig is the best of the italia my father to cook employs a whole day and I swears you and' delicious you come and you will see I try to attach you a photo served as the telephone one month ago licked you the moustaches

best reguards porchettaman:lol::lol::lol::lol::flag_it:

[putrechigi]

max i think you must cam in italy for you i cooking the porchetta personally but i don't knw he to becam:shocked::shocked::D:D peraps is better kooking my father;););)

[Max]

max i think you must cam in italy for you i cooking the porchetta personally but i don't knw he to becam:shocked::shocked::D:D peraps is better kooking my father;););)

Hi,
thanks for the offer... :D well, I like that roasted pigs...:D it's also ancient recipe from old Rome... with rosmarino and other herbs, salt, wine etc I know much on the topic... I'm well documented !:lol: Maybe 2000years old or more?

The salt and pepper are key factors and also some pricking of the meat before apply herbs and salt/pepper compound, right ?

I saw people made it... it's long process... but they explained me the various phases and it's truly interesting process... cause also of the flavour that slowly mix within the meat , during roasting also.

But these delicatessen are not for all... as I said! Some people don't like that... I don't know why... :rolleyes:

Then they said something "er vino e' la morti suo" or something similar I understand as you need wine to get the best taste from this food (and that's true!). :cool:

Kind regards,
Max

[putrechigi]

holy words my father also produces 500 liters red wine with his hands and in winter he hunting the wild boar we won't be great discoverers of lrl but to eat in the lazio anybody doesn't beat us:lol::lol::lol::lol:

if you came in italy conatct my ,one friends more is better than tuosand lrl :thumb: the spirit of the friendship is more and more' rare:):)

best reguards manolo:flag_it:

[J_Player]

...better than thuosand lrl...A thousand LRLs... ?

Nooooooooo..... !!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[putrechigi]

who finds a friend it finds a treasure :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[putrechigi]

night at hall

[Geo]

This time Manolo has right....:)
We need more the friends than the detectors........:):)

[putrechigi]

we can have divergences or different points of view, but virtual friends that the same passion has remain always, for you geo the trip would be even more' short, you could really come to find me in a weekend, the roast pig and red vine also waits for you and your family:):)

tomorrow I will be' in vacation a week I hope to have internet, if I am not able we hear again 1 July

best reguards at hall

[Max]

holy words my father also produces 500 liters red wine with his hands and in winter he hunting the wild boar we won't be great discoverers of lrl but to eat in the lazio anybody doesn't beat us:lol::lol::lol::lol:

if you came in italy conatct my ,one friends more is better than tuosand lrl :thumb: the spirit of the friendship is more and more' rare:):)

best reguards manolo:flag_it:

Hi Manolo,
many thanks! Really appreciate. :cheers:

Kind regards,
Max

[Geo]

we can have divergences or different points of view, but virtual friends that the same passion has remain always, for you geo the trip would be even more' short, you could really come to find me in a weekend, the roast pig and red vine also waits for you and your family:):)

tomorrow I will be' in vacation a week I hope to have internet, if I am not able we hear again 1 July

best reguards at hall

Sorry:( but i was to Italy before 4 months.
Next time i will write to you
best wishes:):)