postLRL circuit for coin at two meter

[Clondike Clad]

How about posting plans for a LRL that can pick u a coin at 2 meters.
This would be a good learning LRL.
I this time don't have a working circuit but when i do i will post it for all to use.

[Morgan]

How about posting plans for a LRL that can pick u a coin at 2 meters.
This would be a good learning LRL.
I this time don't have a working circuit but when i do i will post it for all to use.
4555

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[Clondike Clad]

how do we build and test this?????????

[WesP]

From the looks of it it's an early model of a bug zapper. Just get a moth to fly close and it's toasted to a GOLDEN brown...........:lol:

[lonelyWOLF]

hi morgan
when will I see inside of (zolotoy) LRL pictures

[Esteban]

Soon, circuit for to catch treasure or cup size or statue size at some distance, don't know for single coin at 2 m, but... Wait a little...

[lonelyWOLF]

hello Estaban..
ı`ll a waiting little time..patiently thanks..

[Morgan]

hi morgan
when will I see inside of (zolotoy) LRL pictures
This ZELATOY, TOP SECRET...:cool:

[lonelyWOLF]

hello morgan..
This ZELATOY top scret wow...ok.
ı thing( black box )inside TX RX coils figure.here... +
and 10..12 cm diameter. correct?:frown:

[Morgan]

This ZELATOY,its not good for hunting coins. First it give signal in all coin size iron materials around,and its very dificult to pinpoint any target.
TOP SECRET MILITARY,but not aproved for TH.
As some kind of proton magnetometer inside & MD TR/IB,who works together.
Already sold this device to a friend. I ask im to put photos here.

[Clondike Clad]

Soon, circuit for to catch treasure or cup size or statue size at some distance, don't know for single coin at 2 m, but... Wait a little...

How are you finding coins at :
Finish the giratory pistol, combination of electronic and LRL rod:

A couple of 10 bronze coins buried 10 years is capable to detect 4 m distance and a round gold plated (part of a watch), buried 15 years, at 3 m.

Waiting for to probe in "real field". Why the magnet in front part? A friend (LRL rod user) told me that magnet attracts gold!

Regards

Esteban

WHY CAN'T WE BUILD A WORKING LRL WHAT ABOUT 1 METER LRL FOR A COIN????? wHY CAN'T CARL OR ROBERT BUILD A WORKING UNIT.
CAN SOMEONE SHOW ME A WORKING CIRCUIT FIR LEARNING?????????????
I CAN BUILD A PI,BFO,TR ETC BUT NOT A LRL.... WHAT IS MISSING.

[Esteban]

How are you finding coins at :
Finish the giratory pistol, combination of electronic and LRL rod:

A couple of 10 bronze coins buried 10 years is capable to detect 4 m distance and a round gold plated (part of a watch), buried 15 years, at 3 m.

Waiting for to probe in "real field". Why the magnet in front part? A friend (LRL rod user) told me that magnet attracts gold!

Regards

Esteban

WHY CAN'T WE BUILD A WORKING LRL WHAT ABOUT 1 METER LRL FOR A COIN????? wHY CAN'T CARL OR ROBERT BUILD A WORKING UNIT.
CAN SOMEONE SHOW ME A WORKING CIRCUIT FIR LEARNING?????????????
I CAN BUILD A PI,BFO,TR ETC BUT NOT A LRL.... WHAT IS MISSING.

Because you and others aren't focused in it... major part of time.

[J_Player]

Originally posted by Clondike Clad:
WHY CAN'T WE BUILD A WORKING LRL WHAT ABOUT 1 METER LRL FOR A COIN????? wHY CAN'T CARL OR ROBERT BUILD A WORKING UNIT.
CAN SOMEONE SHOW ME A WORKING CIRCUIT FIR LEARNING?????????????
I CAN BUILD A PI,BFO,TR ETC BUT NOT A LRL.... WHAT IS MISSING.

Originally posted by Esteban:
Because you and others aren't focused in it... major part of time.Hi Clondike Clad,
When we build a PI, BFO, TR etc, we have four missing elements that you don't see in the forum for any LRL:

Geotech metal detector project:
1. Complete schematic showing all component values.
2. Instructions for construction and tuning the circuits.
3. Answer to questions posted for problems found when building the circuits.
4. Instructions for using the completed and tuned detector to locate treasure.

In the LRL posts we see in the forum, here is what is missing:

Geotech LRL project:
1. No complete schematic. Only partial schematic or schematic with errors in the components and missing circuit parts.
2. No instructions for construction or tuning the circuits to correctly process the signals.
3. No answer to questions posted for problems found when building the circuits.
4. No instructions for using the completed and tuned LRL and adjusting it to find treasure.

From what I can see, there is nobody who claims to have a working
LRL that is willing to show how to make a working clone.

Why not? Several possible reasons:

1. They do not have a working LRL, only stories designed to make people think they are the proud owners of a magic treasure machine, which is only a modified radio or metal detector in an electronic box that will not find long distance. So they must not post the instructions to duplicate what they have because it would show others who build it that their LRL does not work. :nono:

2. They do not possess the necessary skills to show how to make a clone of their working LRL. While they can easily build their LRLs, they are just not very good at drawing schematics or explaining what size wire to use or how many turns, or those tricky resistor color codes. :???:

3. They believe their posting photos of their LRLs is only for the purpose of bragging about how they are smarter than you to build a LRL when you cannot. They know that as long as they never give good instructions how to build a working LRL, then they can always feel more important than you because only they have the magic LRL, not you. :razz: If this theory is correct, then you will see many more photos of LRLs but no complete instructions to build them and make them work. This is the only way they could maintain the feeling of superiority while watching others beg for answers that will never come. :lol:

Of course, trying to protect secrets circuits from the Chinese manufacturer exploitation is always a good excuse to use to conceal the real reason (1, 2, or 3 above), but it don't wash, cause the Chinese can easily buy a RangerTell or Mineoro, or any other brand and copy it. They probably already did, and found they don't locate treasure at long distance, so they abandoned the LRLs. However, you will see they are manufacturing some cheap, junky looking metal detectors that have very impressive performance using a lot of copied circuitry. :shocked:

So there are the reasons I can think of why we don't see the missing things needed to build a working LRL. Can you think of other reasons?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

Hi Clondike Clad,
When we build a PI, BFO, TR etc, we have four missing elements that you don't see in the forum for any LRL:

Geotech metal detector project:
1. Complete schematic showing all component values.
2. Instructions for construction and tuning the circuits.
3. Answer to questions posted for problems found when building the circuits.
4. Instructions for using the completed and tuned detector to locate treasure.

In the LRL posts we see in the forum, here is what is missing:

Geotech LRL project:
1. No complete schematic. Only partial schematic or schematic with errors in the components and missing circuit parts.
2. No instructions for construction or tuning the circuits to correctly process the signals.
3. No answer to questions posted for problems found when building the circuits.
4. No instructions for using the completed and tuned LRL and adjusting it to find treasure.

From what I can see, there is nobody who claims to have a working
LRL that is willing to show how to make a working clone.

Why not? Several possible reasons:

1. They do not have a working LRL, only stories designed to make people think they are the proud owners of a magic treasure machine, which is only a modified radio or metal detector in an electronic box that will not find long distance. So they must not post the instructions to duplicate what they have because it would show others who build it that their LRL does not work. :nono:

2. They do not possess the necessary skills to show how to make a clone of their working LRL. While they can easily build their LRLs, they are just not very good at drawing schematics or explaining what size wire to use or how many turns, or those tricky resistor color codes. :???:

3. They believe their posting photos of their LRLs is only for the purpose of bragging about how they are smarter than you to build a LRL when you cannot. They know that as long as they never give good instructions how to build a working LRL, then they can always feel more important than you because only they have the magic LRL, not you. :razz: If this theory is correct, then you will see many more photos of LRLs but no complete instructions to build them and make them work. This is the only way they could maintain the feeling of superiority while watching others beg for answers that will never come. :lol:

Of course, trying to protect secrets circuits from the Chinese manufacturer exploitation is always a good excuse to use to conceal the real reason (1, 2, or 3 above), but it don't wash, cause the Chinese can easily buy a RangerTell or Mineoro, or any other brand and copy it. They probably already did, and found they don't locate treasure at long distance, so they abandoned the LRLs. However, you will see they are manufacturing some cheap, junky looking metal detectors that have very impressive performance using a lot of copied circuitry. :shocked:

So there are the reasons I can think of why we don't see the missing things needed to build a working LRL. Can you think of other reasons?

Best wishes,
J_P
Hello
In part i agree with you. But in reality two members of the closed forum already put device to work. One person tell me that get better performance than Alonso PD,he gave me instructions to improve my clone but i´m not expert enough and not have osciloscope,so its dificult for me to get such power in my cloned PD. Two person who was well suceed,used 6 individual PCB tipe Alonso,not schematics from Andreas,Max or Fred...Empty since the begining,avoiding PCB5 & FERRITE,the turbo engine of this device.
Of course,others tell me about device cant detect coin more than 3 cm??!!
I can get 10 cm with the most weak BFO i have made long time ago!!!
I say,poor E.Engineers from this forum,i feel sorry for them,they cant get coin at 35~50cm air tests...

Regards

[J_Player]

In part i agree with you. But in reality two members of the closed forum already put device to work. One person tell me that get better performance than Alonso PD .....
..... I say,poor E.Engineers from this forum,i feel sorry for them,they cant get coin at 35~50cm air tests...Hi Morgan,
If these members are getting better performance than Alonso PD, and you say "poor E. Engineers from this forum, i feel sorry for them,they cant get coin at 35~50cm air tests...", then which is the reason for not posting instructions to build this LRL?

Is it reason number 1, or could it be reason number 3?
1. They do not have a working LRL, only stories designed to make people think they are the proud owners of a magic treasure machine, which is only a modified radio or metal detector in an electronic box that will not find long distance. So they must not post the instructions to duplicate what they have because it would show others who build it that their LRL does not work. :nono:

3. They believe their posting photos of their LRLs is only for the purpose of bragging about how they are smarter than you to build a LRL when you cannot. They know that as long as they never give good instructions how to build a working LRL, then they can always feel more important than you because only they have the magic LRL, not you. :razz: If this theory is correct, then you will see many more photos of LRLs but no complete instructions to build them and make them work. This is the only way they could maintain the feeling of superiority while watching others beg for answers that will never come. :lol:Best wishes,
J_P

[Clondike Clad]

[/color][/u]

Because you and others aren't focused in it... major part of time.
WHAT TE HELL IS THIS FOCUSED $HIT..WHAT DO YOU THINK I WAS DOING ON THIS FORUM:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::an gry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::ang ry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angr y:
WHY DON'T YOU POST A WORKING CIRCUIT

[Aziz]

WHY CAN'T WE BUILD A WORKING LRL WHAT ABOUT 1 METER LRL FOR A COIN????? wHY CAN'T CARL OR ROBERT BUILD A WORKING UNIT.
CAN SOMEONE SHOW ME A WORKING CIRCUIT FIR LEARNING?????????????
I CAN BUILD A PI,BFO,TR ETC BUT NOT A LRL.... WHAT IS MISSING.

Because,

you can not override the physics behind the nature! A serious engineer, with physics & math knowledge do not believe in detecting of anything at long distance. All the stuff of LRL is not serious engineering and science.

That's my opinion.
:)

[Qiaozhi]

Because,

you can not override the physics behind the nature! A serious engineer, with physics & math knowledge do not believe in detecting of anything at long distance. All the stuff of LRL is not serious engineering and science.

That's my opinion.
:)
Careful ... you are now entering the Twilight Zone!
On this forum, only pseudoscience is King. A single coin detected from over a mile away ... no problem. You can do that with a modified BFO. :lol:

In case you haven't done this already - please read the previous diatribe on this forum. You will see that rational scientific reasoning has no place here. Only selective memory, wishful thinking, and self deception are the tools of the trade.
LRLs are better studied with psychology than physics. But it can be fun to lurk here from time to time. :razz:

[Fred]

Because,

you can not override the physics behind the nature! A serious engineer, with physics & math knowledge do not believe in detecting of anything at long distance. All the stuff of LRL is not serious engineering and science.

That's my opinion.
:)

This is more complex than that.Are you saying it is beyong physics that a small (metallic) object can be detected a few hundred meters or miles away ? :nono:
Regards,
Fred.

[Seden]

Fred,

I would like to hear how a small metallic object can be detected at great distances. I too have problems with that unless your in a helicopter or plane looking at a mineral deposit which has been done for decades. But to do it standing on the ground is illogical so please reveal the complex anwer and I promise to keep an open mind. I am grateful we've put to bed the idiotic notion of ion detection. I just bought a book that goes into photoionic spectroscopy as well as Auger Spectroscopy and both study the ion emissions of Ultra-short UV (the former) and plasma (Auger) and are done in a VACUUM because the ions are too easily dispersed in open air-SURPRISE:nono::razz::lol:!

Randy

[Morgan]

Hi Morgan,
If these members are getting better performance than Alonso PD, and you say "poor E. Engineers from this forum, i feel sorry for them,they cant get coin at 35~50cm air tests...", then which is the reason for not posting instructions to build this LRL?

Is it reason number 1, or could it be reason number 3?
Best wishes,
J_P
Hello J_P

I put my PD working,badly but it works,i can share with Forum everything.
But if people here are lazy or not believe in my results,THIS IS ANOTHER STORY !

Regards

[Fred]

Fred,

I would like to hear how a small metallic object can be detected at great distances. I too have problems with that unless your in a helicopter or plane looking at a mineral deposit which has been done for decades. But to do it standing on the ground is illogical so please reveal the complex anwer and I promise to keep an open mind. I am grateful we've put to bed the idiotic notion of ion detection. I just bought a book that goes into photoionic spectroscopy as well as Auger Spectroscopy and both study the ion emissions of Ultra-short UV (the former) and plasma (Auger) and are done in a VACUUM because the ions are too easily dispersed in open air-SURPRISE:nono::razz::lol:!

Randy

Hi ,
First i would like to say that i (unfortunaltely) don´t know the secret.But i don´t agree to block-reject long range detection just because simple unballance of a coil cannot be detected beyong a certain distance. There may be other factors involved ,external reactions with the object and interactions that it may be possible to use.
Exoplanets invisible by direct observation,can be detected by measuring the aparent movement of their sun.
I am not saying LRL´s work, what i am saying is that i cannot reject LRL´s just because the detection methods i do know are not compatible with it.

Best Regards,
Fred.
Your book look interesting.can you tell the title? Tnx.

[Dell Winders]

I am grateful we've put to bed the idiotic notion of ion detection. I just bought a book that goes into photoionic spectroscopy as well as Auger Spectroscopy and both study the ion emissions of Ultra-short UV (the former) and plasma (Auger) and are done in a VACUUM because the ions are too easily dispersed in open air-SURPRISE:nono::razz:!

I've been watching you guys trying to figure that one out for a long, long time. Congratulations on a brief squirt of intelligence. :shocked: Now.all you have to do is prove it and collect $50,000. :lol: Dell

[J_Player]

You mean we can't use them convenient ions floating in the air to find treasure any more? :eek: :cry:

[Seden]

Fred,

The title is: Ultraviolet Photoelectron and Photoion Spectroscopy Auger Electron Spectroscopy Plasma Excitation in Spectrochemical Analysis By G. Svehla, Elsevier Scientific Publishing Company, copyright 1979-ISBN is 0-444-41732-X . I just checked on Amazon and there are 4 of them for under $20 and after that it jumps up to $149 I believe. Don't let the title intimidate you, it's written in easy to understand language and thankfully has drawings to make clear the equipment described in the text. Boy it sure opened my eyes to what has already been done and as Dell says "What has been done,can be done" (thanks Dell). But I do agree with you Fred and your point is well taken now that I understand it. There is alot out there that still waits to be discovered.

Randy

[Fred]

Thanks for the info! looks like a great reading.
When you say ion dispersed too fast for those experiments, how fast is that? after all we need dispersion if we want to detect them far away :lol::razz:
regards,
Fred.

[J_Player]

When you say ion dispersed too fast for those experiments, how fast is that? after all we need dispersion if we want to detect them far awayDang! If you stand downwind of ions floating in the air from long-time buried gold, maybe you can detect treasure just like you can detect a bear in the woods by standing downwind! :eek:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Dang! If you stand downwind of ions floating in the air from long-time buried gold, maybe you can detect treasure just like you can detect a bear in the woods by standing downwind! :eek:

Best wishes,
J_P

:lol: ...depends of the wind ;)
Fred.

[Esteban]

:lol: ...depends of the wind ;)
Fred.

"The pessimist complains about the wind, the optimist waits for it to change, the realist adjusts his sails." William George Ward (1812-1882).

Adjust your sails and go for new adventures through the unknown sea...! :)

[Dell Winders]

Boy it sure opened my eyes to what has already been done and as Dell says "What has been done, can be done" (thanks Dell). But I do agree with you Fred and your point is well taken now that I understand it. There is a lot out there that still waits to be discovered.

Randy

Shhhh! Don't tell Carl. He falls in the "Pretend" to know it all about Long Range Locators in my other category quote. "The door to understanding & knowledge is never open to a closed, or prejudiced mind. He owes me ' and my customers a lot of apology for all the damage he has done, and attempted to do.

And Randy, and some of the other "Pretend" intellectual critical thinkers who patronize geotech forums as gospel, when (IF) you do become open minded about Remote Sensing Discrimination LRL, you will be eating crow for a long time.

Now, With my lowly 6 grade education I am in no position to dispute the superiority of formal intellectual text book education so I am relegated to a common sense approach, based on personal field experience.

Advertising an LRL utilizing IONS as it's method of detection certainly sounds technical. new technology certainly demands high prices, eliminates competition, and makes for great advertising copy.

I know I can't compete on the market with my simple, low cost, homemade devices that essentially do the same thing, and experience the same problems, except Ions aren't incorporated into my detecting method, that I am aware of.

I suspect Damasio, (Mineoro) has been making fools of you, throwing you totally off the common sense track and laughing all along. I can't say I haven't enjoyed
watching it happen.

Naturally, with all the mockery, ridicule, dis-respect, inferences and rants, that long Range locating is bogus, and because I build, and sell such products, I am considered by you to be a fraud, Scam artist, and that I am conning people out of their hard earned money, with your remarks encouraged and supported by the administration, you can understand why I am reluctant to post anything that may be informative.

Within the next couple of weeks I'll try to post some photos of some of the early Electronic, and passive Long Range Locators I have used in the field, from an aircraft, and over water.

So there will be no arguing, mockery, or dis-respect of LRL users, the photo's will be posted on my own Moderated forum.

http://www.treasurehunters.yuku.com

You are welcome to join and participate in serious LRL discussions as long as you leave your egotistical, intellectual superiority, mockery, inferences, and ridicule here where it is accepted.

In return, when I feel like arguing, I'll come over and join you here on Carl's forum.

"WHAT HAS BEEN DONE, CAN BE DONE" Dell

[J_Player]

Adjust your sails and go for new adventures through the unknown sea...! :)But, but.....
Seden tells us the winds to not bring us gold ions that we can measure with an electronic instrument. :cry: Should we adjust our methods to obtain a complete working schematic and instructions for a LRL as I described above instead?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

But, but.....
Seden tells us the winds to not bring us gold ions that we can measure with an electronic instrument. :cry: Should we adjust our methods to obtain a complete working schematic and instructions for a LRL as I described above instead?

Best wishes,
J_P

The wind carrying heavy ions? :shrug: Don't know, but sure the area near metal is affected by a kind of electro-potential and is different in magnetic property...

[J_Player]

The wind carrying heavy ions? :shrug: Don't know, but sure the area near metal is affected by a kind of electro-potential and is different in magnetic property...Hi Esteban,
Of course the area near the metal is effected by the electric charge and a magnetic anomaly. What Seden is saying is the ions shown on the Mineoro page moving 7.2 feet into the air where they can be detected has been proven to be false science by scientists who use instruments to find where ions are located. But the part of the Mineoro diagram that shows ions moving up in a column under the ground is proven to be correct science by scientists who measured these ion columns and are using the ion measurements to locate gold deposits at gold mines.

What we see on the Mineoro page for the ions is wrong. We cannot find gold ions in the air above the metal. The ions from the metal travel up in the ground, then when they come close to the surface (10-30cm), they become neutralized with chemicals in the soil so they are no longer ions. Before the metal ions reach the surface, they are converted to stable chemical compounds or metal alloys. So the ions cannot be found above the surface of the ground like the Mineoro science page shows.

What Seden is telling us is we are happy to know that we no longer need to waste time trying to measure gold ions floating in the air. He says any ions in the air will blow away before we can find them to measure. But scientists have also found that the gold ions do not leave the ground and move to the air of the treasure where they can blow away. The gold ions are only under the ground.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

And Randy, and some of the other "Pretend" intellectual critical thinkers who patronize geotech forums as gospel, when (IF) you do become open minded about Remote Sensing Discrimination LRL, you will be eating crow for a long time.


:redface:Randy,I sincerely apologize. It should have read:

And J_PLAYER, and some of the other "Pretend" intellectual critical thinkers who patronize geotech forums as gospel, when (IF) you do become open minded about Remote Sensing Discrimination LRL, you will be eating crow for a long time. Dell

[Morgan]

how do we build and test this?????????
You dont need to build this device,because its just BFO MD with some aditional circuit to amplify weak signals and aluminium atenna as receptor of frequencies,and force field locator,it locate energy field many meters away,e. g, television,or power sources...Were i get this?In internet.Device is very unstable.
Nothing special,anyway if someone here wants schematic of this toy,i can provid it.

[J_Player]

Nothing special,anyway if someone here wants schematic of this toy,i can provid it.Clondike Clad has been asking to see a schematic and instructions for building a working LRL. He would be very happy if you post the schematic and some instructions to tell him how to build it with the correct parts.

Best wishes, J_P

[Morgan]

To be honest this device acts like mineoro DC2008,not good for us.
Lets concentrate in Pistoldetektor,its much better.

regards

[J_Player]

To be honest this device acts like mineoro DC2008,not good for us.
Lets concentrate in Pistoldetektor,its much better.You will not post the schematic and instructions for Clondike Clad? Maybe it is not good for us, but Clondike Clad wants to see it. It only takes a few minutes to make the post, and then Clondike Clad will have what he asked for. Why don't you want him to build the many meters aluminum can and power source detector? :shrug:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Seden]

I thought I would not stop laughing when Dell posted his diatribe against me. Dang what a hoot. Thank you sir,you are truly a Southern Gentleman!
Now back to the task at hand of remote detection. I wonder how far you could detect a metallic vein using lighting based signals? Using naturally occuring earth signals would give you the advantage of depth as opposed to radiating a signal into the earth. We're fighting against a signal source instead taking advantage of it. What do you think?

Randy "What hasn't been done,could be done if you wish upon a star long enough" author unknown:angry::|:):razz:

[J_Player]

I wonder how far you could detect a metallic vein using lighting based signals? Using naturally occuring earth signals would give you the advantage of depth as opposed to radiating a signal into the earth. We're fighting against a signal source instead taking advantage of it. What do you think?Hi Seden,
The best electronic LRLs utilize naturally occurring earth signals to locate metals under the ground with very high precision. I have to ask... How do lighting based signals respond to naturally occurring earth signals? I presume you are referring to some form of light emitted from a detecting instrument to interact with naturally occurring earth signals.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Seden]

JP,

No just receiving the lighting VLF signals. I have read a couple patents showing how the impulses increase in amplitutde when you are over an oil deposit or and ore body. There are several different sources of naturally occuring signals that could be used,but you can see how you would have the advantage far as depth goes in using them compared to trying to radiate something down into the earth.
If you go to Google and type in lightning VLF Radiation or natural vlf radiation. Pretty cool stuff,now if we can just make use of it.

Randy

[J_Player]

No just receiving the lighting VLF signals.Hi Seden,
I was confused because you said lighting signals when your were referring to lightning signals. Yes, it is pretty cool stuff. The biggest obstacle with using lightning is it's unpredictable. You can't know when or where it will strike to set your instruments. Happily, there are hundreds of thunderstorms happening all over the world in any day. The places where lightning strikes are known to create short term anomalies in the telluric currents as well as other ground properties like local magnetic field and chemical activity of some of the dissolved soil constituents. Most LRL users consider lightning to be a nuisance as well as the storm that brought it. The only good part they seem to like is the time before the storm when the atmospheric charge changes to a favorable level.

My thinking is you may be better to look at some more predictable earth signals such as the magnetic field, the telluric currents, and anomalies in the atmospheric charge. After seeing all the failed attempts to locate treasure by using measuring these earth signals, I would think you would be more successful to look for a different earth signal to measure that is influenced by these strong earth signals, rather than measuring the signals directly.

When we look at the strength of the earth signals, we see that lightning is very powerful in a local area for a very short time. The amount of current from lightning strikes has been estimated to be an average of 2000 continuous amps from all the lightning strikes on the earth, similar to an estimated average of 2000 amps of current slowly leaking through the atmosphere from the ionosphere to find the earth's surface. The atmospheric leakage is perhaps a better signal to look at because it is fairly uniform over local distances and over a a time span (at least in locations where there is no lightning storm). The local static charge anomalies can be attributed to a number of things related to the constituents of the soil, including buried metal. The same can be said of telluric currents and magnetic field. But for lightning, we have to wait until by chance it strikes near where we want to detect a buried target, unless the concept is to look for common VLF influences from random lightning strikes from all over the world. You will note that many of the passive LRLs described in this forum rely on sensing VLF signals. Whether these signals they measure are from the ground and are enhanced by lightning, or are man-made noise that originates on the surface is unclear.

Are you still working on your previous concepts of a multi-detector?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

"The pessimist complains about the wind, the optimist waits for it to change, the realist adjusts his sails." William George Ward (1812-1882).

Adjust your sails and go for new adventures through the unknown sea...! :)

Hi Esteban,
Have you tried tobuild several narrowband receivers for different frequencies (far away from each other) then to mix all signals to only detect true anomalies?
If this principles works that could be a soution.
regards,
Fred.

[Esteban]

Hi Esteban,
Have you tried tobuild several narrowband receivers for different frequencies (far away from each other) then to mix all signals to only detect true anomalies?
If this principles works that could be a soution.
regards,
Fred.

For short distance (few meters) I use a closed aluminium loop. I'll detect good conductive items as silver and copper coins with it, some gold, bronze, etc. If you increases ohms in ferrite, you'll detect more trash, at this time I don't detect aluminium can beer, fo example. This is pure receiver. The loop you see here is part of the project I'll post here as "Treasure detector". If there are a treasure in vecinity of the device, sure you'll detect it, except if is inside closed iron box. But don't know if can detect oxidated iron box, maybe...

You can detect a treasure with a simple cassette recorder used by journalists. You dismantle the magnetic head and mount this loop system instead magnetic head. (Select the input with more gain, because always stereo has one more sensitive input.)

But I'll design one based on dual amplifier, like stereo, with 2 sensors and 2 sensibility controls, for each sensor.

[Fred]

Hi estabn,
Thanks for information.Looks interesting.
Perhaps you could also use tuned loops antennas as like in VLF reception,they have narower bandwith so yo pick up less noise?
Can you say that detection wit such devices is really reliable, or if there is always some erratic noises so you cannot be sure if it is really working 100%.?
Regards,
Fred.

[Esteban]

Hi estabn,
Thanks for information.Looks interesting.
Perhaps you could also use tuned loops antennas as like in VLF reception,they have narower bandwith so yo pick up less noise?
Can you say that detection wit such devices is really reliable, or if there is always some erratic noises so you cannot be sure if it is really working 100%.?
Regards,
Fred.

Near strong electromagnetics emission like TV, HV lines, etc., this isn't reliable, but in sites more quiet, OK. Treasure "can't scape" of this at 20-30 meters and big silver coin can be detected 3 m. but not sustain the detection for long time, for small items.

Regards

Esteban

[Max]

For short distance (few meters) I use a closed aluminium loop. I'll detect good conductive items as silver and copper coins with it, some gold, bronze, etc. If you increases ohms in ferrite, you'll detect more trash, at this time I don't detect aluminium can beer, fo example. This is pure receiver. The loop you see here is part of the project I'll post here as "Treasure detector". If there are a treasure in vecinity of the device, sure you'll detect it, except if is inside closed iron box. But don't know if can detect oxidated iron box, maybe...

You can detect a treasure with a simple cassette recorder used by journalists. You dismantle the magnetic head and mount this loop system instead magnetic head. (Select the input with more gain, because always stereo has one more sensitive input.)

But I'll design one based on dual amplifier, like stereo, with 2 sensors and 2 sensibility controls, for each sensor.

Hi,
the "core" seems a toroid of ferrite with wounded coil upon it, right ?

From what I understand there's a magnetic coupling from any local to toroid magnetic field line generated by current in aluminium loop.

This is like happens in some aluminium antennas with kind of magnetic transformer for impedance matching there with receiver... aluminium structure is "tuned" to a specific frequency or range of frequencies (but this is not good for broadband antenna things) and then transformer get signals for receive by just induction.

The problem is... what causes the current flow in the aluminium loop in this case?

I mean... if you move the al-turn in the Earth magnetic field... you can get voltage variations due to variation of coupling between the turn and the field.

But if you hold it fixed in one position the only thing that could induce current in it is cause of some external RF emission.

But which RF emission ??? From target ???

I do not understand this.

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Hi,
the "core" seems a toroid of ferrite with wounded coil upon it, right ?

From what I understand there's a magnetic coupling from any local to toroid magnetic field line generated by current in aluminium loop.

This is like happens in some aluminium antennas with kind of magnetic transformer for impedance matching there with receiver... aluminium structure is "tuned" to a specific frequency or range of frequencies (but this is not good for broadband antenna things) and then transformer get signals for receive by just induction.

The problem is... what causes the current flow in the aluminium loop in this case?

I mean... if you move the al-turn in the Earth magnetic field... you can get voltage variations due to variation of coupling between the turn and the field.

But if you hold it fixed in one position the only thing that could induce current in it is cause of some external RF emission.

But which RF emission ??? From target ???

I do not understand this.

Kind regards,
Max

Hi, also Idon't know exactly what happens, what kind of emission can exist, but in general you move the antenna slowly for to cause a kind of AC variation.

Regards

Esteban

[Max]

Hi, also Idon't know exactly what happens, what kind of emission can exist, but in general you move the antenna slowly for to cause a kind of AC variation.

Regards

Esteban

Hi,
so the coil must be moved to detect signal...
if you move the coil slowly you can get signal from a variation of flux related to Earth magnetic field. This is similar to magnetometers when the EMF is sampled or read with continuity to get the logs and then find if there's any anomaly in local intensity.

Maybe the target changes the field gradient in it's vicinity ? But this will give you readings also on e.g. soft iron targets that have great magnetic permeability.

What do you hear on speaker/headphones when it detects a target ?

Kind regards,
Max

[Dell Winders]

Quote:
And Randy, and some of the other "Pretend" intellectual critical thinkers who patronize geotech forums as gospel, when (IF) you do become open minded about Remote Sensing Discrimination LRL, you will be eating crow for a long time.
:redface:Randy,I sincerely apologize. It should have read:

And J_PLAYER, and some of the other "Pretend" intellectual critical thinkers who patronize geotech forums as gospel, when (IF) you do become open minded about Remote Sensing Discrimination LRL, you will be eating crow for a long time. Dell

Randy, I'm sorry! Your name was not intended. The phone was ringing as I was finishing the post.
There are only a few minutes allowed to edit on this forum, and I caught my mistake too late to do any thing about it.

I apologized a few posts later,but apparently you didn't catch it. You are one of the few responsible people who post on this forum, and the reason I even bother to read the posts. Again, I sincerely apologize to you for my typo error. Dell

[Dell Winders]

So little, so late!

Originally Posted by Esteban http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=69350#post69350)
Hi, also Idon't know exactly what happens, what kind of emission can exist, but in general you move the antenna slowly for to cause a kind of AC variation.

Regards

Esteban
Hi,
so the coil must be moved to detect signal...
if you move the coil slowly you can get signal from a variation of flux related to Earth magnetic field. This is similar to magnetometers when the EMF is sampled or read with continuity to get the logs and then find if there's any anomaly in local intensity.

Maybe the target changes the field gradient in it's vicinity ? But this will give you readings also on e.g. soft iron targets that have great magnetic permeability.

What do you hear on speaker/headphones when it detects a target ?

Kind regards,
Max

Shhhh! Don't tell Carl. I've been bashed, mocked, and ridiculed by the Skeptics for 14 years, with no apology, because I likened LRL detection to that of a Magnetometer, and stated that if you increased the sensitivity of a Magnetometer 300 times you would detect the Fields of non-ferrous anomalies.

Estaban, you are a wise man, gracious enough to cater to the demands of unappreciative, dis-respectful fools. I respect the value of your knowledge you so freely share. Thank You! Dell

[Esteban]

Dell, thanks very much.

Max, respect why iron targets aren't undetectable (sometimes yes!) is in relation with quantity of wire you use in coil. My general norm is few wire for non ferrous and much wire for ferrous + magnetic core. But OK, I use magnetic core (with very few wire) also here, but aluminium loop is very low impedance and closed gain more, this is the primary. Secondary is small ferrite core. Also great advantage is this: through the time iron targets degenerate in oxide and don't create the enough electric field, but good conductive target mantain this field as a charged battery. Remember, here also there are some chemist process between soil and targets.

I don't hear directly in speaker or phones, variation of voltage I convert in audible rapid and short tone.

[Seden]

Dell,

No harm done, I was just surprised that's all.
JP, my multi-sensor project is down on the priority list right now. As usual too darn many irons in the fire (I must have adult ADD or something). Too be honest when I'm on my days off I go out placer mining and prospecting. Just bought my 3rd Mercury Sniffer off ebay (Johnson-Williams/Bacharach S-1) as the other 2 need work (bought the previous 2 for ~$70 each and one of them is a Jerome 411 that just needs filters and the Bacharach MV2 that drifts).
What I'm going to work on now is make up stakes with wires for the Associated Research "Vibroground" 4 terminal resistivity meter and start practicing. I'm into this Ancient River location that has multiple Ancient River formations from the different epochs and time to get really serious about using Geophysics to track down the best spots within these deposits. I also have a TDS meter so were into Geochemical aspect and for detecting the black sand I just use my White's MXT which over the years has proven effective time after time.

Did I mention I'm working on my vertical for 160+1750 meters? Sometimes I wish I was wealthy and could retire early so I can knock these projects off more quickly and still have time for my family. I'll be ordering a development type 8051 board that goes with the book this guy wrote so I can have a 2nd try at learning to program (got sidetracked after getting half way through when I attempted to take a Cisco class-BORING!). I love assembly so that will be something I can do at work with my managements blessing and will be for the multisensor detector.
Randy

[J_Player]

.

[J_Player]

Sometimes I wish I was wealthy and could retire early so I can knock these projects off more quickly and still have time for my family.You mean you still have time for family and they haven't kicked you out yet? No wonder you are short of time for your projects! :eek:

I can see where you're going with your multi-detector concept. I may be going that route on a project I have been tinkering with after I get the analog version details worked out. It would simplify some critical timing setpoints in the transistor circuitry by replacing the signal circuits with more stable digital timing. But I have the same problem with time for the learning curve before I can actually apply DSP.

Maybe you can get Dell to help you go straight to the placer deposits instead of spending so much time building instruments to map the ancient river beds first. Last time I heard, all it took was a few photos of the site to locate the treasure with a pendulum.

Be sure to post photos of your first handful of nuggets when you make your strike. :cheers:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

You will not post the schematic and instructions for Clondike Clad? Maybe it is not good for us, but Clondike Clad wants to see it. It only takes a few minutes to make the post, and then Clondike Clad will have what he asked for. Why don't you want him to build the many meters aluminum can and power source detector? :shrug:

Best wishes,
J_P
Hello
Yes,i will put schematic as soon as possible ,for him.
As you can see,i build this device long time ago,its very easy to build ,but i said to Detectoman Gold coin 50 m distance,it was a joke:D
This device is more usefull as +&- ion locator than treasure hunting...Its some kind of zahory+BFO.

Regards

[J_Player]

Yes,i will put schematic as soon as possible ,for him....
...i said to Detectoman Gold coin 50 m distance,it was a joke:D
This device is more usefull as +&- ion locator than treasure hunting...Its some kind of zahory+BFO.Hi Morgan,
Zahori + BFO is a good if it finds aluminum cans from long distance farther than a metal detector. This is why Clondike Clad wants to build it. It can be used for long range farther than a metal detector will work. If he builds it, then maybe he will discover a method to make it discriminate gold. If he can do this, then maybe you will be happy he made the circuit, and maybe he will post the circuit for gold classifier.

Thank you for helping with your LRL circuit.
Best wishes,
J_P

[Clondike Clad]

BUT NO WORKING CIRCUITS ON THIS FORUM????????????????????????????????????...NOT ONE WORKING CIRCUIT.
HOW DO A GUY LEARN IF NO ONE WON'T HELP HIM.
......................ALL I WANT TO SEE IS A SIMPLE WORKING LRL CIRCUIT TO PICK UP A COIN AT 2 METERS NOT 30 METERS OR EVEN A MILE AWAY.
...........................JUST A SIMPLE CIRCUIT FOR 2 METERS ON A COIN.....

[Esteban]

BUT NO WORKING CIRCUITS ON THIS FORUM????????????????????????????????????...NOT ONE WORKING CIRCUIT.
HOW DO A GUY LEARN IF NO ONE WON'T HELP HIM.
......................ALL I WANT TO SEE IS A SIMPLE WORKING LRL CIRCUIT TO PICK UP A COIN AT 2 METERS NOT 30 METERS OR EVEN A MILE AWAY.
...........................JUST A SIMPLE CIRCUIT FOR 2 METERS ON A COIN.....

In advance... in advance... relax...

[Morgan]

BUT NO WORKING CIRCUITS ON THIS FORUM????????????????????????????????????...NOT ONE WORKING CIRCUIT.
HOW DO A GUY LEARN IF NO ONE WON'T HELP HIM.
......................ALL I WANT TO SEE IS A SIMPLE WORKING LRL CIRCUIT TO PICK UP A COIN AT 2 METERS NOT 30 METERS OR EVEN A MILE AWAY.
...........................JUST A SIMPLE CIRCUIT FOR 2 METERS ON A COIN.....
Hi
The Pistoldetektor circuit works.
Only need to find coil and ferrite solution

regards

[Aziz]

BUT NO WORKING CIRCUITS ON THIS FORUM????????????????????????????????????...NOT ONE WORKING CIRCUIT.
HOW DO A GUY LEARN IF NO ONE WON'T HELP HIM.
......................ALL I WANT TO SEE IS A SIMPLE WORKING LRL CIRCUIT TO PICK UP A COIN AT 2 METERS NOT 30 METERS OR EVEN A MILE AWAY.
...........................JUST A SIMPLE CIRCUIT FOR 2 METERS ON A COIN.....

It isn't possible. From 2 meter distance, you will detect noise, EMF (radiated around the world, space, etc.).
:)
LRL isn't serious! Just like a rod.

[J_Player]

It isn't possible. From 2 meter distance, you will detect noise, EMF (radiated around the world, space, etc.).As long as we can teach small children to believe in Santa Clause, we can teach big children to believe in LRL. Proof is in the treasures found, not in science. :rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

So little, so late!
Shhhh! Don't tell Carl. I've been bashed, mocked, and ridiculed by the Skeptics for 14 years, with no apology, because I likened LRL detection to that of a Magnetometer, and stated that if you increased the sensitivity of a Magnetometer 300 times you would detect the Fields of non-ferrous anomalies.

Estaban, you are a wise man, gracious enough to cater to the demands of unappreciative, dis-respectful fools. I respect the value of your knowledge you so freely share. Thank You! Dell
Dell, i am sorry to say that untill someone wins the "Challenge" , Carl is right and eveybody else supporting LRL´s are wrong.
This is how a bet works...I hope you are right, that would be nice, but you have to prove it if you expect others to believe in it too...
I am trying to find out if it works.I am making experiments, as untill now nobody could prove anything.When i´m finished i will know...maybe.
Regards,
Fred.

[Morgan]

As long as we can teach small children to believe in Santa Clause, we can teach big children to believe in LRL. Proof is in the treasures found, not in science. :rolleyes:

Best wishes,
J_P
Hi
I see a lot of pessimistic people here...
Lets make some comparision. Before it was just radio,than television,and now we have,satelite TV, CD´s,DVD´s,and many other advanced stuff !!!
If we tell to E.Engineers from the 50´s about all this new technology, who believe in you? NOBODY!!!
Alonso start LRL some decades ago with some results, Now he as better devices.Who believe in this LRL? Only me,Esteban,Hung and a few more...

Regards

[Morgan]

Dell, i am sorry to say that untill someone wins the "Challenge" , Carl is right and eveybody else supporting LRL´s are wrong.
This is how a bet works...I hope you are right, that would be nice, but you have to prove it if you expect others to believe in it too...
I am trying to find out if it works.I am making experiments, as untill now nobody could prove anything.When i´m finished i will know...maybe.
Regards,
Fred.
I sugest,Carl shoul buried the "GOLD" as soon as possible.This precious metal start create some ENERGY field.Otherwise its impossible to find it with LRL devices...

[Qiaozhi]

Hi
I see a lot of pessimistic people here...
Lets make some comparision. Before it was just radio,than television,and now we have,satelite TV, CD´s,DVD´s,and many other advanced stuff !!!
If we tell to E.Engineers from the 50´s about all this new technology, who believe in you? NOBODY!!!
Alonso start LRL some decades ago with some results, Now he as better devices.Who believe in this LRL? Only me,Esteban,Hung and a few more...

Regards
To be fair - that's not quite the same thing. Even in the 1920s there was still a good vision of where technology was heading. See attached images - the front cover of a 1927 magazine (a glimpse of the future), and a very ancient French TV (the "Semivisor") from 1929 (the "current" reality).

LRLs are not a logical progression from already established metal detector technology. They are a completely separate type of device based on pseudoscience.

[J_Player]

Hi
I see a lot of pessimistic people here...
Lets make some comparision. Before it was just radio,than television,and now we have,satelite TV, CD´s,DVD´s,and many other advanced stuff !!!
If we tell to E.Engineers from the 50´s about all this new technology, who believe in you? NOBODY!!!
Alonso start LRL some decades ago with some results, Now he as better devices.Who believe in this LRL? Only me,Esteban,Hung and a few more...But I believe! When I see the photos and stories told by Esteban, and other LRL builders, how can I not believe?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

It isn't possible. From 2 meter distance, you will detect noise, EMF (radiated around the world, space, etc.).
:)
LRL isn't serious! Just like a rod.

Also any MD can catch noise, EMF, etc. :)

[Fred]

LRLs are not a logical progression from already established metal detector technology. They are a completely separate type of device based on pseudoscience.

To stay fair, not all explanations are based on pseudoscience.Esteban dont try to explain at all how it works.That look honest to me.
If i remember well,for example tunnel effect has been unexplained but explored for many years, and there is plenty o similar examples.It just works! :razz:
regards!,
Fred.

[porkluvr]

I was trying to figure out how to excite quantum discharge from, say for instance, the gold atom. If a nearby lightning strike could impart energy for quantum leap and subsequent photon/wave release upon the atom's return to its normal state, the question is, what would be the appropriate frequency range (or ranges) that a receiver should be tuned to?

Atomic clocks make use of the quantum effect and are tuned to Cesium's quantum release wave frequency. Same idea. :oh:

I want (and need) to find gold.

I may not be a scientist, but I can still dream, can't I?

[Aurificus]

[quote=Aziz;69160]Because,
you can not override the physics behind the nature! A serious engineer, with physics & math knowledge do not believe in detecting of anything at long distance. All the stuff of LRL is not serious engineering and science.

Well....
..we have been locating ships and aeroplanes over the horizon with EM waves since the 1930's.

I paid a Highway Patrol policeman a lot of money for him to explain to me that his detector mounted on a high-speed vehicle could not only detect the presence of my car over a hill and around a corner but accurately measure it's relative velocity :shocked:

We can detect the temperature and chemical composition of invisible stars millions of light years away by EM waves. Scientists have determined that photons reaching earth from that star remain in "communication" with the ones "back home". Recent experiments in Quantum Entanglement "measured" this communication at 10,000,000 x C. This is not magic, it's actually being used in cryptography including for some recent European federal elections.

I do not doubt that LRL for treasure is "possible".
Perhaps the level of technology applied to the problem is not yet sufficient for really consistent repeatable results.
It is also likely that focussing on all the standard, basic, scientific rules and formulas and applications cannot produce results with sufficient accuracy.

Just about every formula for electricity or energy has numerous additional factors and variables that are deemed insignificant and are left out of the basic formula to keep it 'simple" (Maxwell's corrections to Ohms law??)

E=mCC Einstein knew about quantum entanglement but avoided it because to was too "spooky". If I remember correctly,C also slows down
as we approach absolute zero degrees. Nothing is as simple as it appears.
(engineers hate that, hence the fudge factor).

The solution to LRL may be in looking for the "missing factors" or more likely still, the tiny, secondary, effects of the missing factors.

I'm still looking

Aurificus

[Aziz]

Hi Aurificus,
The solution to LRL may be in looking for the "missing factors" or more likely still, the tiny, secondary, effects of the missing factors.
Aurificus

Gold is a precious metal. It does not tend to any (chemical) reaction in the nature. This is the reason, why we can find it as a yellow precious metal.
So any "ions" could not exist. Nor any effects on small pieces of gold.
The signal-to-noise ratio is allready on the noise floor. Except, you find a big tank, ship or airplane made of pure gold.
:)

[Aurificus]

Hi Aziz,

This is an really basic "example" of the 'hidden factors" I'm talking about.

Skeptics Please Note: I am making this all up, there is no need to debate the facts, the method, the practicality or the science or lack of it.

Assume:
Gxxx is a metal with reasonable electrical and high thermal conductivity.
Gxxx responds to EM radiation of a certain frequency emitted by an unknown source by converting some of the energy into heat.
Buried Gxxx radiates this heat into the surrounding soil. The soil above the Gxxx has more moisture than below. The moisture absorbs the radiated heat and some of it turns into vapour. The vapour rises to the surface and creates an area of denser air vapour than the surroundings.
EM radiation from another source is absorbed by this vapour and converted to more heat.

A suitable detector tuned to the 2nd radiation frequency might detect the high vapour area as a hole in the general field. (Before the wind blows it away, ha! ha!)

ie; we find the target by detecting the absence of signal due to a secondary, or tertiary effect that is resulting from an insignificant (assumed) physical property of the Gxxx

please don't yell at me!

Aurificus

[J_Player]

Gold is a precious metal. It does not tend to any (chemical) reaction in the nature. This is the reason, why we can find it as a yellow precious metal.
So any "ions" could not exist. Nor any effects on small pieces of gold.Gold ions in the ground? Interesting research...

In recent decades scientists have been studying strange micro-organisms that move gold and other metals through the soil. These microscopic bacteria and fungi can convert dissolved gold into solid gold, and visa versa. There are several mines where gold nuggets were found to have been manufactured by microbes that converted gold ions dissolved in the soil into metallic gold, precipitated on the face of a growing nugget.

Does this sound hard to believe? If it is true, it means there are gold ions in the soil, and not just a few unmeasurable ions, but enough to make nuggets from.

According to geomicrobiologist Frank Reith, "...the precipitation of gold by micro-organisms, and thus in the biomineralisation of gold, which as recent evidence suggests has led to the formation of some of the world largest gold deposits."

But in addition to micro-organisms precipitating metallic gold, there are microbes that ionize and dissolve gold:

"In soils with high contents of organic matter heterotrophic bacteria and fungi appear to dominate the gold dissolution by excreting amino acids, low molecular weight organic acids (LMWOAs), cyanide or organic sulfur compounds. These molecules were shown to have the ability to dissolve native gold and act as complexing agents for the resulting gold ions."

Wet soil samples were incubated with these microbes, then gold pellets were added to the soil. After 20-30 days of incubation, up to 3 ppm of gold was found in solution, compared to none measurable in the sterilized soil samples with gold pellets.

Now, how do atoms from a gold pellet get into solution? They have to become ionized first! Thus it cannot be true that buried gold does not form ions. We are talking about small amounts (3ppm), But this is the amount measured in some small sample test areas after a month in the ground. The investigations into mine sites from the real world show that this process can happen on a much larger scale, creating nuggets that are very pure where microbes precipitated the gold (98% and better).

Not all gold nuggets are created by microbes. Many are formed with cooling molten rock masses. The gold formed by microbes is derived from these primary gold sources in the ground. But it has been discovered that there are many nuggets which have a rich outer gold shell, and a lower purity gold in the center. In some cases these were nuggets formed by molten gold cooling, then later, microbes deposited a layer of higher purity gold on the top surfaces.

Because it takes some time for these microbes to ionize buried gold metal and put it in solution with the surrounding soil, it tells us that long time buried gold is different than fresh gold that was recently put in the ground. In addition, there are microbes that will attack the other metals alloyed with gold like silver, copper, platinum, etc. According to these studies, some soil is richer in these gold-eating microbes than other soil, so we can expect some soils to show a greater difference between fresh gold and long time buried gold.

In the case of the other microbes that convert the ions back into gold metal, we will find gold nuggets that have ions around them being converted into metallic gold to precipitate and grow the nugget. These new gold nuggets may have similar halo properties as gold that is decomposing.

Check here to read this article:
http://crcleme.org.au/NewsEvents/New...USIMMReith.pdf (http://crcleme.org.au/NewsEvents/News/Archive/2004/AUSIMMReith.pdf)


Here are more web pages with information about gold microbes:
Microbes manufacture gold nuggets: http://www.geotimes.org/sept06/NN_Microbes.html

Electron micrographs of microbes moving gold associated with Au(III) reduction:
http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/67/7/3275.pdf

Microbes convert dissolved gold into solid metallic gold:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...0_goldbug.html (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/08/0830_goldbug.html)

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1032376.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0802103513.htm (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/08/060802103513.htm)

Report says scientists have ascertained the microbe’s process converts approximately 1% of exposed gold per year.
http://sandersresearch.com/index.php...171&Itemid=102 (http://sandersresearch.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1171&Itemid=102)

http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev32_3/amazing.htm
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/20...15_283189.html (http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200607/15/eng20060715_283189.html)


You will find thousands more reports on microbes that eat gold and other metals if you google for "gold microbe": http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...be&btnG=Search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=gold+microbe&btnG=Search)

So what do you think? Do these microbes help to locate long time buried gold and other non-ferrous metals?
Is this a good case for "the halo effect" on long-time buried gold and coins? :???:


In addition to those microbe processes, there are also some other chemical methods that allow gold and other metals to move through the soil in the form of ions. According to many studies made by oil and mineral exploration companies, metals in the ground will ionize, and the ions will move upward to the surface where they become bound with the surface constituents. Only after losing their ion status, these metal compounds continue with further migration laterally along the ground.

What they are saying is trace amounts of ions form as buried metals and ores dissolve into the surrounding soil. From there, they move to the surface leaving a trail of ions and an area of ionized metal at the surface soil that marks the location of buried metal. Because these ions quickly neutralize at the surface, they do not move away from the source of the metal as an ion. Thus these are called "mobile metal ions" until they neutralize and cease to be ions at the surface.

In essence, the presence of metal ions in the surface soil is an accurate pin pointer for metal and ores beneath the surface.
Today there are a number of companies for hire to take measurements of metal ions at the surface to tell you what minerals are below. This technique is used to identify the presence of petroleum and other minerals including gold, copper, zinc, iron and others. Some reports show magnetic anomalies and halos as well as ionic anomalies in the soil measured above mineral deposits. A number of gold mining operations use this method to locate the gold below the soil.

Check here to read more about these mobile metal ions rising to the surface to mark the location of buried metal or ore:
http://www.mmigeochem.com/Mobilizing...ril%202001.pdf (http://www.mmigeochem.com/Mobilizing%20Your%20Ions%20April%202001.pdf)
http://www.mmigeochem.com/frwelcome.htm
http://www.innovation.wa.gov.au/Inno...bile_metal_ion (http://www.innovation.wa.gov.au/Innovation/portal_skin%3BEnhanced/Innovation%20Directory/g/geochemistry_research_centre/mobile_metal_ion)
http://geea.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/...stract/5/3/201 (http://geea.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/5/3/201)
http://www.diggerresources.com/hdrg.htm
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._7/ai_n8682755 (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2005_Jan_7/ai_n8682755)

Google for measure "mobile metal ions" to read a lot more mining companies using this method: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...22&btnG=Search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=measure+%22mobile+metal+ions%22&btnG=Search)


Of course these ions do not form and rise to the surface overnight. This can take many years, depending on the soil composition. So what do you think? Does this make you wonder if gold can react chemically in nature?

[Aurificus]

Plants also absorb and accumulate mineral ions, and lift them up above the ground level.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=itB5yKv7-rIC&pg=PA72&lpg=PA72&dq=plants+mineral+ions+gold&source=web&ots=b0i7zE8W67&sig=O38_--l1CcfrMYMMGjRu3x9mbek&hl=en


Don't blame me, I read it on the internet, it must be true! 8)

Aurificus

[detectoman]

:shocked:Hello
Yes,i will put schematic as soon as possible ,for him.
As you can see,i build this device long time ago,its very easy to build ,but i said to Detectoman Gold coin 50 m distance,it was a joke:D
This device is more usefull as +&- ion locator than treasure hunting...Its some kind of zahory+BFO.

:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:: angry::angry: :nono: buaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :|

[Esteban]

Hi Aurificus, J_Player and all! Well explained, congratulations!

The electric field around this targets buried for long time is easily detected by open base amplifier and other few stages, I don't have the enough science for to build accurate and well designed electronic LRL, but the inherent "phenomenon" regarding conductive targets buried for long time is detectable and I assume is a combination of magnetic and electric property (acquired by long time).

Read this:
CounterAct's system is based on the principle that corrosion is an electrochemical reaction that can be controlled electronically. Iron and oxygen have chemically opposite charges and therefore seek to combine to form rust. The faster iron combines with oxygen, the faster the metal deteriorates. The metal body of a vehicle tends to have a positive electrical charge in an area where rust is occurring.
CounterAct's patented capacitive coupling process introduces a negative surface charge to the metal body instead, which polarizes the microscopic layers of electrical charges that occur along a corroding metal surface. In essence, the CounterAct system makes it very difficult for the opposite charges of iron and oxygen to connect, since they have to battle with those polarized layers of charges. The negative surface charge—and its corresponding polarized charge layers—reduces the rate at which the iron and oxygen combine, slowing down the corrosion process.
The CounterAct system has three primary components: a power supply and control module; a removable modular wiring harness; and programmed capacitive couplers.
The small-pulsed 12- or 24-volt DC-power supply delivers the required amount of current to the capacitive couplers, to generate an electrostatic field of the proper strength to reduce the ion mobility that is the basis of the corrosion process. The removable modular wiring harness makes it easy to get to the power supply and control module, so you can inspect it or transfer it to another vehicle.

From web page
http://www.counteractrust.com/

Here in zip mht files:

[Esteban]

Abstract

To date, no publication has been made on dry soil characteristics under high impulse current conditions. This is because, no conduction current was detected in the dry soil, which may be due to high bulk resistance in the dry soil, limitations in the impulse generator and in the transducers adopted during the tests. In this study, however, for the first time, conduction current in dry soil was observed, despite the high resistivity of the dry soil and the large equivalent resistance of the test cell. It would be expected that the ionization process occurred mainly in the dry soil, since there is no water path in dry soil, and the voids are filled mainly with air. The goal of this paper is to contribute a better understanding of the ionization and thermal phenomena that occur in dry soil.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V02-4MJSF5S-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=1fbce623c21aba0bec877fd2b9a68ae1

Is in concordance with experience with dry soil: better for long detection!

So, can good conductive metal increases the parameter of ionization in the soil?

[Max]

Hi Aziz,

This is an really basic "example" of the 'hidden factors" I'm talking about.

Skeptics Please Note: I am making this all up, there is no need to debate the facts, the method, the practicality or the science or lack of it.

Assume:
Gxxx is a metal with reasonable electrical and high thermal conductivity.
Gxxx responds to EM radiation of a certain frequency emitted by an unknown source by converting some of the energy into heat.
Buried Gxxx radiates this heat into the surrounding soil. The soil above the Gxxx has more moisture than below. The moisture absorbs the radiated heat and some of it turns into vapour. The vapour rises to the surface and creates an area of denser air vapour than the surroundings.
EM radiation from another source is absorbed by this vapour and converted to more heat.

A suitable detector tuned to the 2nd radiation frequency might detect the high vapour area as a hole in the general field. (Before the wind blows it away, ha! ha!)

ie; we find the target by detecting the absence of signal due to a secondary, or tertiary effect that is resulting from an insignificant (assumed) physical property of the Gxxx

please don't yell at me!

Aurificus

Hi,
the vapour ??? so, kind of a fog ??? :lol:
I see you are skeptic too, congratulations ! :cool:

But who told you that the effect is secondary or tertiary ? I don't know about this ! ;)

Maybe is something related to ions in soil matrix... in soil there's huge concentration of them cause of chemical reactions and charge movements due to natural effects most of the time (in some cases also man made applications/signals could induce increased ionic activity in the underground).

Problem is nobody knows what's the effect the (supposed working) LRL are trying to detect... if ionic or other stuff... or combination of various etc

Best regards,
Max

[Esteban]

For good long detection, soil: dry, but first metal affected by water for rains, for example, filtered in the soil.

Study of corrosion and resistivity in various types of soils since 1924! Save this info!

http://www.abchance.com/resources/technical/01-9204.pdf

[J_Player]

For good long detection, soil: dry, but first metal affected by water for rains, for example, filtered in the soil.
Study of corrosion and resistivity in various types of soils since 1924! Save this info!It is not necessary for the soil to be wet in order for buried gold to ionize. There are gold deposits more than a mile deep which are ionized by cyanide and other chemicals that are secreted by microorganisms. Other metals are also dissolved and ionized by microorganisms and are released into the soil in the vicinity of the metal.

The moisture in the ground is thought to be the method that these ions are moved from the metal to the surface leaving a column shaped trail which leads down to the target. Scientists have modeled these ion trails and their computer simulations suggest the rain cycles are responsible for making these ion columns through the mechanism of capillary action. It is believed the ions move up because the ground is wetter at the surface during a drying cycle between rainy seasons, and tends to draw dissolved minerals to the wet region as it dries.

Also, iron is easily dissolved by water, but not gold. Gold requires special combinations of acids or other toxic chemicals like cyanide salts to dissolve it. So the gold is relatively immune from oxidation from the rain, unlike iron. The concentration of the gold ions in the soil is only on the order of 3ppm. Much less than dissolved iron rust around a piece of iron. There are other metals that also show a larger percentage of ions in the soil than gold, such as zinc, lead, silver and copper. Some of these can dissolve enough to poison the soil so plants will not grow.

So how do we detect a column of 3ppm gold ions buried in the dirt? We have no electronic instruments that can measure these low concentrations in the soil much less from a distance. The only way I know is to measure secondary and tertiary signals that could be influenced by the weak column of ions. Perhaps some frequencies of RF are altered when in the vicinity of these columns. Or maybe the static charge of the atmosphere is changed in the area of an ion column in the soil. Who knows without some instruments to test with?

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Yes,i will put schematic as soon as possible ,for him.



Ok morgan, deal: If you put here schematic of working LRL (detect coin at >2m) I will put here schematic of working handbrake for Russian MIG 27 (stop MIG 27 at >2m).

[Morgan]

:shocked:Hello
Yes,i will put schematic as soon as possible ,for him.
As you can see,i build this device long time ago,its very easy to build ,but i said to Detectoman Gold coin 50 m distance,it was a joke:D
This device is more usefull as +&- ion locator than treasure hunting...Its some kind of zahory+BFO.

:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:: angry::angry: :nono: buaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :|
No need to become angry,it was a litlle 50m joke,just for you...jajajaja
This device find radiation in TV more than 10m distance,this is true!
El pistoldetector si,esse es bueno,para monedas .

Hasta la vista

[Morgan]

But I believe! When I see the photos and stories told by Esteban, and other LRL builders, how can I not believe?

Best wishes,
J_P
You believe and you will not be desapointed.
I´m working together with one of the sucessfull PD CLONE owner.We are very optimistic about Ferrite capabilities,i´m not good in electronics but he teach me a lot.We are very near to Alonso technology.
When we get the best performance we can go to Carl challenge and get 25K Dollars. Hey carl,no need to buried Gold,if you get some Silver is ok;)

Regards

[J_Player]

You believe and you will not be desapointed.
I´m working together with one of the sucessfull PD CLONE owner.We are very optimistic about Ferrite capabilities,i´m not good in electronics but he teach me a lot.We are very near to Alonso technology.
When we get the best performance we can go to Carl challenge and get 25K Dollars. Hey carl,no need to buried Gold,if you get some Silver is ok;)

RegardsOk Morgan,
I will watch for you winning the 25K prize. Be sure to take your video camera so we can all see the PD find the hidden treasure, and also make video of what Carl says after you find the treasure. I think $25K is better than some gold nugget or coins you find, so good idea for hunting the $25K treasure, not small nuggets.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

Hi Aurificus,


Gold is a precious metal. It does not tend to any (chemical) reaction in the nature. This is the reason, why we can find it as a yellow precious metal.
So any "ions" could not exist. Nor any effects on small pieces of gold.
The signal-to-noise ratio is allready on the noise floor. Except, you find a big tank, ship or airplane made of pure gold.
:)
Any non ferrous metal buried for some time,create energy around it,specialy if the ground is wet,and the soil not disturbed around it . Its possible to locate this energy field with devices tipe Detektorpistol at some meters distance.
No need to believe,but its true!

[Morgan]

Hi Aurificus,


Gold is a precious metal. It does not tend to any (chemical) reaction in the nature. This is the reason, why we can find it as a yellow precious metal.
So any "ions" could not exist. Nor any effects on small pieces of gold.
The signal-to-noise ratio is allready on the noise floor. Except, you find a big tank, ship or airplane made of pure gold.
:)
Its possible to simulate this Energy Field generate by metals underground,i remember someone here tell about it,maybe Esteban tell something about .
I think acids in the ground react with metal,and create this field of energy.Sensitive device locate this E.F. and thats all,but people here complicate this things a lot,the phenomena its more simple than we imagine,i´m sure about it!

[Morgan]

Ok morgan, deal: If you put here schematic of working LRL (detect coin at >2m) I will put here schematic of working handbrake for Russian MIG 27 (stop MIG 27 at >2m).
I already put the Alonso Detektorpistol...
Coin 2m or more distance!

[Aziz]

I already put the Alonso Detektorpistol...
Coin 2m or more distance!

The LRL seller can detect coin, money, check on more distance! Even thousands of miles! They are detecting your money.
:lol::lol::lol:

Please, read the physics for energy fields. I do not know, what kind of energy field you mean.
:razz:

[J_Player]

The LRL seller can detect coin, money, check on more distance! Even thousands of miles! They are detecting your money.
:lol::lol::lol:

Please, read the physics for energy fields. I do not know, what kind of energy field you mean.
:razz:There is nobody selling the pistol detector that Morgan is talking about. It was built from circuit diagrams found in this forum.

I have read the physics of energy fields. I have discovered that geologists are able to measure very weak energy fields from the earth that people cannot find with metal their detectors. I have also discovered that gold and other metals are dissolved into the soil, and that there are scientists who measure the dissolved gold ions to help locate the source of gold. Maybe you will want to read about this science so you will also know the locating of gold and other buried metals can be done with other methods different than a metal detector.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Energy Field generate by metals underground,i remember someone here tell about it,maybe Esteban tell something about .
I think acids in the ground react with metal,and create this field of energy.Sensitive device locate this E.F. and thats all,but people here complicate this things a lot,the phenomena its more simple than we imagine,i´m sure about it!


Yes, fully agree, those unbelievable phenomena are very very simple energies, so simple that you even do not need Alonso Detectorpistol (why waste money for it or complicate with schematic?), to detect this gold energy, it is enough simple dowsing rod. Dowsing rod is the simplest and far better than Alonso pistol, believe me, it is entirely scientific proven way, someone here tell me about it.

[WM6]

I already put the Alonso Detektorpistol...
Coin 2m or more distance!

Thanks Morgan. Here you are my promised MIG27 handbrake schematic >2m STOP. Very simple and cheap solution at the same time you can enjoy future state of the art technical solutions right now.
WARNING! You must be fully grounded during braking because of static energy!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2352/2348777277_23d0da26a7_m.jpg

[Aurificus]

Hello Max

vapour ??? so, kind of a fog ??? :lol:
I see you are skeptic too, congratulations ! :cool:I am only a sceptic when someone wants my money!!

I am happy to listen politely to anybody prepared to spend time to share with me their knowledge & experiences.

Secondary & tertiary effects do not defy the laws of science they are just the insignificant by-product of other reactions. Sometimes they are easier to detect that the "way too-small" responses of the things usually looked for by "normal" people. (Sometimes the detection factor can be X10 - X 100).

In my example, FORGET vapour, its just a metaphor, a confusing fog. It could be heat or vibration or the exponential decay of a transmitted pulse. Think of effects in terms of "energies" and the means to measure the by-products of a change of energy conditions.

I don't know the answer....Yet.
Just be thankful that NASA hasn't been given the job of treasure hunting.....There would be nothing left for US! (that's you & me... not USA)

Cheers, Aurificus.

[Clondike Clad]

In advance... in advance... relax...

All I get it no circuits but just relax and in advance.
How long is the advance one day a year or until I am dead.
Anyone who has a working simple circuit please post it.:frown:

[Esteban]

All I get it no circuits but just relax and in advance.
How long is the advance one day a year or until I am dead.
Anyone who has a working simple circuit please post it.:frown:

I have open many kinds of projects. When I finish 2 of them, well, will be time for to adjust a project for here.

Regards

Esteban

[Fred]

All I get it no circuits but just relax and in advance.
How long is the advance one day a year or until I am dead.
Anyone who has a working simple circuit please post it.:frown:
Have you seen the "... 492 feet " thread? Morgan´s PD with all schematics is here.You have to work on it and figure out if and how it works, but it´s all there...
Of course it´s not a kit :rolleyes:
Fred.

[Max]

All I get it no circuits but just relax and in advance.
How long is the advance one day a year or until I am dead.
Anyone who has a working simple circuit please post it.:frown:

Do this! (If you're really desperate I mean) :D

From Mineoro 432 Thread... the original version of the Morgan's Pistol Detector schematic! :cool:

ENJOY!

Kind regards,
Max

[Clondike Clad]

look over this circuit and it WILL NOT WORK but i will play with it anyway.

[Max]

look over this circuit and it WILL NOT WORK but i will play with it anyway.

if not works like an LRL you can always hear your preferite radio station on medium waves with an headphone... using the built-in receiver! :D

A TRULY GENERAL PURPOSE DETECTOR! ;)

[Clondike Clad]

Now all I see is am radio for LRL.
Is this all the circuits I wilol see.
A AM radio.
Carl's LRL circuit works as good,,,nota ,zip zero