Post photo of your LRL project?

[Clondike Clad]

Why is it no one wants to post photos of LRL projects.
Funny thing is all I ask is to post CAD OR PHOTOS.
Hung do you have a CAD or a photo ?
Let learn all about LRL ( The Good and the Bad)
If we can detect water in space( Like on Mars ETC)

[Geo]

Hi.
Sorry but i have a bad quality photo
I attach here
Regards

[Clondike Clad]

OK i see a coil for pick up( or it look as if a coil is being used for emf pick up.
The question is what are you sensing?

[Geo]

This is the pistol from the "Mineoro 2 box" thread.
It work as simple MD (2.5m max distance) and as LRL for objects buried for long time. Tomorrow i will go to the farm to test it for long time buried objects.

[Clondike Clad]

This is the pistol from the "Mineoro 2 box" thread.
It work as simple MD (2.5m max distance) and as LRL for objects buried for long time. Tomorrow i will go to the farm to test it for long time buried objects.



How do a coil detect from long distance?
from what I see this thing will not work,

[hillman]

hi to all,I am a new member here am interested in LRL my hobby is tresure hunting and coin hunting,I have DC2008, last summer I worked hard with it I didnt find any thing with it even it didnt peep at all in the field or to give any false signals,then I found this geotech forums and every body was talking about this subject and about ICONOS and pistol detector project , it is grate work and hard work to test every instrument even to bild one, hi to geo ,esteban ,morgan ,hung and every one how are working hard to find a real LRL working good ,I appriciate that;)
hillman

[Qiaozhi]

hi to all,I am a new member here am interested in LRL my hobby is tresure hunting and coin hunting,I have DC2008, last summer I worked hard with it I didnt find any thing with it even it didnt peep at all in the field or to give any false signals,then I found this geotech forums and every body was talking about this subject and about ICONOS and pistol detector project , it is grate work and hard work to test every instrument even to bild one, hi to geo ,esteban ,morgan ,hung and every one how are working hard to find a real LRL working good ,I appriciate that;)
hillman
So it correct to assume that you are yet another dissatisfied Mineoro customer?

[Esteban]

Nobody knows if LRL rods work? And in wich percentage of accuracy? First of all, you must have practice in it, neutral attitude in it, but in all cases you must be able for to manage it with some searching technic (complex).

As this RF circuit works well for to find gold and other noble metals since the size of plated gold "Rommanel" chain, a combination of giratory system as LRL rod and electronics can give results in % of accuracy, in other words, how accuracy can be LRL rod and if sometime the electronic isn't enough in some cases but LRL can do the job? Combination!

The RF circuit don't know part of what it, I have 3-4 of this from surplus...

P.S.: no painting yet...

[Fred]

Hi Esteban
the board certainly looks like a data receiver,if you could find data about the coils at left (RF filter) you could know frequency.Probably UHF...
Regards,
Fred

[Esteban]

Hi Esteban
the board certainly looks like a data receiver,if you could find data about the coils at left (RF filter) you could know frequency.Probably UHF...
Regards,
Fred

Yes, also I think is UHF type, but the intervention is in 455 Khz.

So, for me isn't very important the kind of receiver, also cellular must be work in frequency mixing part.

Here more explained with agregated text in drawns and block diagramm.

Regards

Esteban

[Esteban]

This was part of workable BFO for long range. I made measurement of inductance of search coil (10.5 cm diam.). This search coil is 3 connections and gold classifier in coil. This system was end of the 70's.

[roberts]

:lol::razz::razz:
Man can really learn much from lrl enthusiasts!?
For example that cordless phone made by Panasonic can be used as "secret" LRL "pistol" for long range locating!?!?:lol::lol::lol:

Which model was this??
Is it KX-TC1005 or PQQS10549ZA ??? Or some simillar 49Mhz device made by Panasonic!? Buuuuaahahahahahahahahah!!!!:lol::lol::lol:

[roberts]

No...really, sometimes i can be cruel more than it needed!:razz::razz::razz:

[roberts]

Esteban who are you joking here!?
Me personally...i designed IF and front end stages for few cordless phones manufacturers, in the past. My favorite was MC3361 and earlier MC3357.
I do recognize my "baby" here!? And you came here and claim it is some blah,blah "lrl" pistol????!
How dare you? Ha,aha,aha,aha,aha,aha,ah!!!!!:D:razz::lol::lol::l ol::lol:
First it was Hung and now you...
Bye,bye Esteban!

[Clondike Clad]

Would like to see what your are making.
you can post a cad of your LRL detector?

[Fred]

Hi Robert,

I think, whatever is the purpose of this stuff, that they connected the "input" directly to the 455 IF , so they basically have a 455khz receiver.The rest of the circuit is not used.
When using a BFO this could be an easy way to build a good sensitive and selective receiver.
regards,
Fred.

[roberts]

Would like to see what your are making.
you can post a cad of your LRL detector?


Haloooo Earth!?!? Clondike Clad, i never designed and made neither one LRL detector!? Do you understand english? I designed front ends and IF's for mobile radio apparatus, like cordless phones,walkie-talkies etc...
Am i clear here? Was something confusing in my last post?
I recognized "my" design on Estebans photo...that is all.
When i said "my" it is pretty relative. I designed several types of this, doesn't mean i am the only one.
But for sure, what Esteban posted is nothing else but simple,ordinary tranceiver taken from some cordless phone. Reminds me most on Panasonic's style. Actually i can swear it is Panasonic.
Keep dreaming on LRL...sweet dreams!
:D:D:D

[roberts]

Hi Robert,

I think, whatever is the purpose of this stuff, that they connected the "input" directly to the 455 IF , so they basically have a 455khz receiver.The rest of the circuit is not used.
When using a BFO this could be an easy way to build a good sensitive and selective receiver.
regards,
Fred.

Must be that you know something i don't?!
I still can see 10.7 MHz mixer in front of 455kHz there on photo!? Also i still can see TX part with 30-50MHz quartz there!? How come?
Also there is MC 3357 or 3361 there also!? How come?
I dont see any bfo there!?
There is no such thing as 455KHz reciever, my friend. There is something similar in remote controls...but that is not subject here.
Actually they (hung,esteban and others) are constantly playing with scrap eletronics trying to discover some new america!:lol:
Totally nonsenced wirements doesnt make good ee from ignorant! Does it?
Child play...again and again. Posting funny photos again...
This is so funny!

[Fred]

what i mean is that they have used an old phone board, ignored all the HF stages and directly connected the input to the 455 khz IF stage.Maybe.That´s all what i am saying, i dont know the purpose, principles or whatever .
Fred.

[Esteban]

Roberts

Not important if you think this doesn't work.

By the way, you don't need much "technology" for to detect at distance. Maybe is not high depth detector but can detect a gold coin at 40 m. :razz:

I use only the oscillator frequency and obtain in audio out the difference. The same with FM radio or cell phones. Internal oscillator of them is the theme.

"I dont see any bfo there!?"

You, as radio designer, must be know what mean BFO in radio.


Regards

Esteban

[roberts]

Roberts

Not important if you think this doesn't work.

By the way, you don't need much "technology" for to detect at distance. Maybe is not high depth detector but can detect a gold coin at 40 m. :razz:

I use only the oscillator frequency and obtain in audio out the difference. The same with FM radio or cell phones. Internal oscillator of them is the theme.

"I dont see any bfo there!?"

You, as radio designer, must be know what mean BFO in radio.


Regards

Esteban


I can agree; it is not important what do i think, at all. It is important what is possible and what is not possible. :nono:

I dont need "technology" to detect coin at 40m. I have eyes and i can see it, if it is not burried (as you said). So why bother making anything from scrap electronics.
So...internal oscillators of devices you mentioned usually run at high and very high frequencies but generallly those are all very low power. So i cant really imagine how, the heck, you can "locate" anything, using those???
But..never mind, if you are satisfied - i am more satisfied. :p
I just couldnt resist to show my overjoy when recognized that pcb! :)

[Max]

Esteban who are you joking here!?
Me personally...i designed IF and front end stages for few cordless phones manufacturers, in the past. My favorite was MC3361 and earlier MC3357.
I do recognize my "baby" here!? And you came here and claim it is some blah,blah "lrl" pistol????!
How dare you? Ha,aha,aha,aha,aha,aha,ah!!!!!:D:razz::lol::lol::l ol::lol:
First it was Hung and now you...
Bye,bye Esteban!

Hi Robert,
yes is a cordless....:rolleyes: I had thoughts about... before you post that message! ;)

But maybe he just used the electronics there in different way... just some IF thing needed and he used that cordless to get it work in a different way.

I cannot say that this thing could detect a coin at 40meters away... really hard to belive... but I think it can work as a BFO MD using that IF stage and some mixing of frequencies from a local oscillator and a tuned circuit stuff.

Is this an LRL ? I don't know... cannot say anything about...

Sure it was a cordless phone before the "mod" but what's now ? Just a bunch of cables and metal ??? Maybe... or maybe there's something else... something really different from original purpose of device that maybe I cannot see... you cannot recognize as possibly working stuff etc

Anyway... if Esteban will tell us some more details we'll make a better idea of what's the purpose of making a BFO using the cordless blocks to realize an "LRL" that way. :rolleyes:

Best regards,
Max

[Esteban]

You can see in block diagramm in zip archive. I use as passive LRL.

The change of frequency in RF sector by signal causes for long time buried metal produces mini-changes in audio output. This show via beeps generator.

Regards

Esteban

[Fred]

You can see in block diagramm in zip archive. I use as passive LRL.
The change of frequency in RF sector by signal causes for long time buried metal produces mini-changes in audio output. This show via beeps generator.
Regards Esteban
Hi Esteban,
But change in what frequency? if it is passive, what frequency change do you detect?
And do you know how a target many meters away can make a stable frequency to change?
Regards,
Fred.

[roberts]

You can see in block diagramm in zip archive. I use as passive LRL.

The change of frequency in RF sector by signal causes for long time buried metal produces mini-changes in audio output. This show via beeps generator.

Regards

Esteban

Pay attention on this; "...I use a passive LRL..."

Now i do understand your way of looking at this! Finally!
Same principle (or simillar)to Omnitron and so many others. Most closest match would be Radian 2001, made by independent serbian ee.
Principle is to use "passive LRL" and some piece of electronic equipment togather.
Well, electronic part is most oftenly some sort of signal generator and in some rare cases (like this,your) sort of receiver. No matter of totally oposite role of those electronic parts, all these can be put in same category.
Category which we can define as "half human-half machine" or call it any other way you want. Electronic part is provable to work something. So we should not have any doubts in its accuracy. For example, signal generator from Omnitron set is really workable device. It is generating signal for real. Also that pcb you are using is workable for sure. It is receiver with front end,mixer,local osc. demodulator and finally af stage.So it is workable for sure.
But let me say here what is the main lack in this principle; it is the other part - "passive LRL" part, as you named it.
How can anybody prove that it is workable? How can any of us do double blind tests and gain same results as yours? No way!
That is the main catch here.
You simply can not prove that part is workable. You cant even explain its functionallity. You cant draw sketches,formulas,calculations and by this indirect way prove and establish its functionallity. Aint no natural science with which you can backup your claims.
So you are picking some signal(or noise) changes when dealing with your apparatus!? OK, i can accept that. How can you be sure what caused those changes? Are you gonna dig huge hole to check if there is some burried item?
What if there isnt burried item? What if somebody waste days and dig 3-4 meters whole, or also waste 3-4 days searchin large area, without any finds,without succes? What than?
How can you explain that? He is not skilfull? Or some already well known Mineoro explanations..?
Have you ever tried Zahori? It can pick hum,noise and signal changes from every where. It is extra sensitive even to slites changes in static field. But this doesnt mean it is detecting coin at 40 meters. It is absolute uselles in any kind of metal prospecting.
Same story with all other LRL devices, i have been seen so far. Yet neither one proper explanations.
See what i mean? That's why i can not accept this yours or any other LRL concept as true.
Unless you have something more to show here, i will stay pretty sure that am very right.
About others...let them do decide.
Regards man!

[Fred]

Yes Robert,

We cannot rule out a system just becasue we dont know how it works, but then if nobody can explain it , even builders,we get suspicious...
same thing here, but we must keep an open mind...

Now about the cordless phone ,i have never seen a cordless with this kind o connector, and i dont think it make much sense to use such one, so i said it reminds me a data transceiver.
Not very important anyway...

Regards,
Fred.

[Clondike Clad]

Hung what is your input...............

[roberts]

Yes Robert,

We cannot rule out a system just becasue we dont know how it works, but then if nobody can explain it , even builders,we get suspicious...
same thing here, but we must keep an open mind...

Now about the cordless phone ,i have never seen a cordless with this kind o connector, and i dont think it make much sense to use such one, so i said it reminds me a data transceiver.
Not very important anyway...

Regards,
Fred.

Yes it is some kind of data tranceiver.It is not ordinary cordless phone. Reminds me mostly on earlier products from late '80. and early '90. Also it still can be cordless phone with voice&data scramble feature, like those done in the past, with 2 pcbs; one was tranceiver and other was digital processing unit. As you said, not very important here anyway. What is important is fact that pcb we can see here is actually ordinary tranceiver with very well known parts,stages. Knowing this, we can understand principle of working. So now, for the first time here, i do understand what is all about.
Give me things that i can repeat in my lab, and i will support your ideas - that is only way. Unlike many other things posted in Remote Sensing Forum.
About keeping open mind; i have open mind upon things i can practically repeat,understand and prove. I cant have open mind upon unprovable things.
For example, to many people claimed so far they met vampire! I say - not possible. Vampires doesnt exist. Same thing with lrl here. Locating single coin at 40 meters or simillar claims. etc.etc.

[Fred]

For example, to many people claimed so far they met vampire! I say - not possible. Vampires doesnt exist. Same thing with lrl here. Locating single coin at 40 meters or simillar claims. etc.etc.
Hey Robert,
This is a slippy path!
If someone says he have seen a vampire,i would think it must be proven,but untill then i dont know... It does not make sense, i doubt,etc,but ... i dont know.
Someone also said once that the earth was not the center of universe, nobody believed and he ended his life arrested because he couldnt prove it... ;) .
Regards!,
Fred.

[Esteban]

No mystery here, no ovnis, no vampires, there is people wich wish extend this theme to legend field! :lol:


You catch this small difference in the audio out of the IC, but you can't ear normally. So the simple beeper do the job.

Any simple audio amp. can do the job, but in this case you can't achieve much distance.

Semiconductors base is ready for to accept electrons, these semiconductor has noise causes by termal movement of atoms. The field of the good conductive metal buried for long time affect the vecinity of the electrons in the semiconductor, and produces a small microvolts, very easy to undrstood this.

So a antenna system connected to this input and adjust the system at the best point of sensibility, out of false beeping, is OK for to do the job.

In other words, also you don't need RF part, yes audio, but RF is more sensitive, and as I use here receiver part, I call this passive device, this is in my terminology regarding electronic LRL. Other thing is a system based in transmitter/receiver, so I can name this as active device. Also radio transmitter/receiver or metal detector (IB, BFO, resonance-off, etc.) is active for me.

All depend of your imagination in electronic LRL systems, never ends ideas in this field.

But for to know all this you must go to inland in relic sites, no dictate from a chair and a computer.

Regards

Esteban

[Fred]

Hi Esteban,
No mystery here, no ovnis, no vampires, there is people wich wish extend this theme to legend field! :lol:Esteban
thanks for explanations,but you understand that we have been talking about LRL for so long without any evidence of working or scientific background, that it seem logical we associate it to legends ;)

But for to know all this you must go to inland in relic sites, no dictate from a chair and a computer.Esteban

I agree with that : this is the problem with internet. too much studies that raise more and more questions,and no time left for experiences....

Regards

Fred.

[Max]

No mystery here, no ovnis, no vampires, there is people wich wish extend this theme to legend field! :lol:


You catch this small difference in the audio out of the IC, but you can't ear normally. So the simple beeper do the job.

Any simple audio amp. can do the job, but in this case you can't achieve much distance.

Semiconductors base is ready for to accept electrons, these semiconductor has noise causes by termal movement of atoms. The field of the good conductive metal buried for long time affect the vecinity of the electrons in the semiconductor, and produces a small microvolts, very easy to undrstood this.

So a antenna system connected to this input and adjust the system at the best point of sensibility, out of false beeping, is OK for to do the job.

In other words, also you don't need RF part, yes audio, but RF is more sensitive, and as I use here receiver part, I call this passive device, this is in my terminology regarding electronic LRL. Other thing is a system based in transmitter/receiver, so I can name this as active device. Also radio transmitter/receiver or metal detector (IB, BFO, resonance-off, etc.) is active for me.

All depend of your imagination in electronic LRL systems, never ends ideas in this field.

But for to know all this you must go to inland in relic sites, no dictate from a chair and a computer.

Regards

Esteban

Hi,
can I make some guesses and questions ?

You add a turn to the tuned circuit , right ?

That way you lower the frequency of tuned circuit from the standard 88-108 MHz FM band of receiver to something less... say 60-80MHz... ok.

But then you wire a cap from omnidirectional antenna to the volume pot... of radio and parallel it with another used for external sensitivity settings.

OK... if so... I suppose then your beep generator is something threshold detector that drives a 555 timer and give pulses to the buzzer... maybe a selfoscillating one like the sonalarme we talked about.

Ok: if there's a reduction of signal strenght at antenna at the tuned frequency , and if there's no agc control on the radio active, you'll get lower volume ... so can trigger the audio generator.

The second option is a tuned circuit after antenna and before the circuit... passband filter for the radio input...maybe tuned to a particular frequency.

All seems have a meaning till now but then...

the questions are:

1. what causes the signal strenght reduction ?
2. what's the frequency of tuned circuit and why if any particular frequency instead of others ?
3. is there some broadcast or other kind emission at that frequency that superimpose with the supposed "useful" signal ?

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

"You add a turn to the tuned circuit , right ?"

No, quite a turn. You can add or quite a turn, the theme is go some far of FM band.

"Ok: if there's a reduction of signal strenght at antenna at the tuned frequency , and if there's no agc control on the radio active, you'll get lower volume ... so can trigger the audio generator."

The necessary volume for to made stable and very sensitive.

"1. what causes the signal strenght reduction ?"

Maybe is associated for long time buried conductive metals. Also I'm not sure all phenomenons implicates, is complex.

A man was asked how he found a treasure in the 60's, a poor man, how he can detect the gold. And he tell with a Philips radio 6 big X 1.5 V batteries in AM. He told that over the treasure the radio was detuned! You can do this: tune a AM station and put near the ferrite a coin. What's happen?

"2. what's the frequency of tuned circuit and why if any particular frequency instead of others ?"

As you see, is for study. I remember that I connect the system antenna-small coil-variable cap. in input RF of TV and manage the tuning great, so directly can be useful for to filter undesirable frequencies.

"3. is there some broadcast or other kind emission at that frequency that superimpose with the supposed "useful" signal ?"

This is possible since this experiment: you tune near a station in FM band and positioned the small spiral coils (see drawn), move only one of them and leave the other fix. You will note that improve the reception. So detune a little the tandem. Buried metals tend to complete the tunning, so can be useful another kind of emission, but to depend of radio station is very problematic.

As Fred said, no scientific background we can found regarding long range metal detection. This FM system is for short range, maybe few meters, no more than 3 or 5 for a coin.

This job is very empiric, tons of experiments you must do... And you discover this, regarding electronic LRL: almost ALL SYSTEM you have in mind works in different grade. So the phenomenon is complex and you never are sure if electric, ionic, magnetic, but I believe is a combination.

[Qiaozhi]

This is possible since this experiment: you tune near a station in FM band and positioned the small spiral coils (see drawn), move only one of them and leave the other fix. You will note that improve the reception. So detune a little the tandem. Buried metals tend to complete the tunning, so can be useful another kind of emission, but to depend of radio station is very problematic.
What do you mean by small spiral coils?
Are these air-cored, wound on ferrite, flat .... or what?

[J_Player]

What do you mean by small spiral coils?
Are these air-cored, wound on ferrite, flat .... or what?My guess is flat air core spirals attached to plastic disks with hot melt glue. ;)

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

My guess is flat air core spirals attached to plastic disks with hot melt glue. ;)

Best wishes,
J_P

Yes, is right! Just few turns.

Regards

Esteban

[roberts]

"..A man was asked how he found a treasure in the 60's, a poor man, how he can detect the gold. And he tell with a Philips radio 6 big X 1.5 V batteries in AM. He told that over the treasure the radio was detuned! You can do this: tune a AM station and put near the ferrite a coin. What's happen?..."

This is a classical thesis substitution, usually met in lightly conversations.
If you want my opinion on this; i will say (generally) YES, radio will be slitly detuned off main frequency, in AM band if you put some ferrite rod or descent piece of metal near oscillator. Yes.
But, NO if you pass with radio over simillar piece of metal on larger distance than 1-2cm. Any kind of metal. NO. Radio will stay tuned hard as a rock.
So i can pull some conclusion from this; either that man founded tons of burried treasure, at shallow depth, and even than only if he passed with radio few centimeters away from it.
Knowing this it is logical to say this method is uselles in metal detecting, cose you have to put your apparatus very close to desirable item.It is not long range locating any more - it is shortest possible range locating than.

You said 3-4 meters. I said WOW! Forget 40 meters, even those 3-4 meters would be fantastic result! I dream about device with which i can detect coin at 3 meters depth or distance!
Seems that you didnt understood my point from earlier posts;
coin is to small and lite, it can not disturb any kind of radio reception on such long distances like 3-4 meters. Conditionally it can disturb reception only if you close it to device's oscillator at 2-3mm distance..or even less.
No way.
My life occupation is radio. I work and live radio. Aint no coins arround disturbed any reception so far.Aint no larger metal items too.
Various propagations are only source of disturbances in reception. Take term propagations generally, including million various causes. But all those causes are global, not so minor and local as tiny,small coin.
No matter how you mod that radio.
I will return to Zahori again. Zahori (although trivial device) is most sensitive
specimen from that undefined group of so called lrl devices. If you want to follow and scope all static changes surrounding us, you just make it, add stronger audio (ivconic's mod) and enjoy!
But those changes you hear with your device are certainly not caused by single coin. Trust me. Even if you ocassionaly find a coin or two, walking arround with your device, it is not cose your device is functional, but cose terrains at your home are pretty full with coins. You better take some proper VLF/IB and start "cleaning" those, before somebody else do that.
About my field experiencess....i am experienced enough. Prospecting is my hobby for over the 20 years. Maybe not great as somebody's else, but descent enough to make me conversant to talk about things here.
By strange and funny coincidence, radio is my life. I do understand most of things related to radio very good. So anything you posted here, relating to radio is properly checked so many times before. You better trust me about it, it is in your interest more than in my.
You better do some extra experiments with that device, than come again here and inform us.

[J_Player]

I will return to Zahori again. Zahori (although trivial device) is most sensitive specimen from that undefined group of so called lrl devices. If you want to follow and scope all static changes surrounding us, you just make it, add stronger audio (ivconic's mod) and enjoy!Hi Robert,
Most of Esteban's pistol style LRLs have been built with coil transmitters and receivers. From what I understand, at low frequencies (less than 200 khz) these coil antennas are better suited to receiving radio waves than an antenna designed to receive the electric field. because of better electrical noise immunity. After reading many of Esteban's posts about LRL detection from looking at received signals showing a phase shift, I think he believes a coil antenna is much better for locating treasure. I think he is trying to measure changes in the transmitted radio wave in the vicinity of the target without picking up stray man-made electrical static and noise.

I don't believe any electric field or magnetic loop antenna can detect a coin at long distance of more than a few feet. But maybe it is possible a loop antenna can respond to a halo caused by long time buried metal. Little is known about a halo, except it has been proven that there is a column of metal ions that rise through the ground at the location of the long time buried metal. There may also be electrical and chemical properties that allow a VLF radio wave to react to the presence of this halo. Nobody has proven whether a halo exists or whether radio waves can be altered by the presence of a halo. We only have the reports of Esteban and Morgan who say their coil type detectors responded to long-time buried metals.

Now my question to you is this:
1. First, am I correct that a loop antenna will be more immune to electrical noise from buildings and man-made electrical devices, and best for receiving directional VLF signals?

2. If a coil method is better for receiving VLF signals, then what would be a good design to monitor reliably some very small phase shifts in a received signal? Is there a better way than Esteban described using audio demodulation?

I don't claim the halo effect is able to make changes in transmitted or received radio signals, but I am interested to know the best method to construct a portable loop transmitter/receiver to make a real test of Esteban's claims. Are you able to design a TX/RX apparatus that will do this better than Esteban's apparatus?

Best wishes,
J_P

[roberts]

I really cant imagine other way except choosing loop.
Audio demodulation is easiest approach. Lets adopt it for a start. Certainly not best here, but easiest. I cant involve much of my time here due other jobs, and cose this will be pretty trivial task, so...ok...lets adopt audio demodulation.
Ok. If we take 200kHz as desired frequency, conversion to wave length will give us:
1499.62 meters, lets say 1500m.
But let's rethink this frequency. I dont like it. Much less effrot for me later, if we use
455kHz as desired. Why? Since i consider this as pretty trivial job, i would like to make
my life easier later when designing project for you here.
So let it be 455kHz. Right?

455kHz will be 658.9 meters wave lenght. Let's say 659m. Further W/2=329m and W/4=165m.
So now we do know possible lenghts of desired wire antena.
Now.... which type of loop antena should we use here? Directly coupled loop or indirectly
coupled loop? Directly coupled loop has directly connected its windings to amplifier.
To achieve electrical balancing, main tank coil (loop primary) must be center tapped to
ground.Indirectly coupled loop will require transformer coupling - meaning link of windings
to couple received signal to the receiver.
Here we do not want just to pick up any signal. Here we desire to receive signal and if
possible (it is) to approximately distinguish signal direction, so we can later folow it
and eventually find its source. Right?
Therefore if we choose directly coupled loop in our design, that loop must be critically
balanced! Now pay attention on this! Any differnce in windings left or right from center
tap will hardly disturb loop balance and eventual direction finding will be unaccurate!
But totally unaccurate! Why? Because we do not want here to catch some strong TX, but very
weak (if there is any) signal produced from changes caused by presence of metal in its
vicinity. We are talking here about very,very weak signals! Hard task, if not impossible!
So loop design would be most critical here. That's why i do have
so much doubts in Esteban design and its accuracy. Among other doubts. Ha,ha,hah!
Now, knowing this i would rather choose indirectly coupled loop for my design, cose it is
much easier to balance.It must be air core loop (as it is here).But there is catch too, here.
This setup will pick up more interferences, static changes etc. If it was fixed to only
one postition - less problem. But walking arround with it, changing positions will cause
distorted reception, noisy signal etc.
There is a sort of "thumb rule" here also; the larger loop is better in sensitivity than
smaller one. So...i really cant imagine what Esteban expect to achieve here with small, handy
portable loop he made!?
So i will rather "wash my hands" off designing loop here. I will let you to design proper
loop for this. I can only design receiving circuitry for it.
So if you accept this term, we can start.
I will stand infront my design as 455kHz receiver and you must stand infront loop for that
design. All right?
So i suggested 455kHz frequency. You need loop to cover 659m wave lenght. you may choose
between w,w/2 or w/4. I will rather suggest you w/2 in this special purpose. I think it
is probably optimum compromise between benefits and losts.
So if you have will to start say it, i am waiting.
I will need to see your loop choise ready here, so later to design rx circuitry according it.
Deal..?

[Esteban]

So, for to make a coil at 10 Khz you need 29,984.5 meters of wire or 29.98 km. This is impractical for metal detector. At 1/2 wavelenght = 14,992.25 o 14.9 km and for 1/4 = 7,496.125 km...

For the same reason, for to receive radio or emit radio waves you don't need kilometric antennas!!! A think is wavelenght and other is to tune a simple coil (tank) at desirable frequency.

And don't forgett the inherent frequency of each metal, atomic vibration, a very precisse frequency for each metal.

Of course, radio no detune easyli in presence of metal, but the small change in the background noise is a simple explanation.

No accurate at all this simple system, really no good distance, just is an example.


Regards

Esteban

[Dell Winders]

http://www.borderlands.com/newstuff/research/ground-ant.htm

[roberts]

So, for to make a coil at 10 Khz you need 29,984.5 meters of wire or 29.98 km. This is impractical for metal detector. At 1/2 wavelenght = 14,992.25 o 14.9 km and for 1/4 = 7,496.125 km...

For the same reason, for to receive radio or emit radio waves you don't need kilometric antennas!!! A think is wavelenght and other is to tune a simple coil (tank) at desirable frequency.

And don't forgett the inherent frequency of each metal, atomic vibration, a very precisse frequency for each metal.

Of course, radio no detune easyli in presence of metal, but the small change in the background noise is a simple explanation.

No accurate at all this simple system, really no good distance, just is an example.


Regards

Esteban


No Esteban, you mixed up things here. Conventional VLF-I/B at 10kHz working frequency doesnt really work as radio transmitter.No, not at all. Coil is used to generate electro magnetic field with certain flux. Radio waves produced that way are not our concern. You may say those are colateral in whole process. Any metal in coil vicinity, exposed to generated em field is also producing alternating em field, later picked up with rx part of coil.
Coil balance is disturbed, phase of tx signal is shifted, man have more than enough elements according to whose can distinguish metal preferences than.

But concerning LRL you talked about,situation is quite different. You cant rely on em field and its flux any more. You are talking about LONG range locating.Also you want to use radio waves, real radio waves.
In this case you must think about proper antena-loop in this case.
Among other reasons, loop preferences are also to be taken cared carefully. That's why is not practical to design device for low frequencies...10kHz for example, loop it self would be "heavy weight", imposible to carry!
That's why i picked up 455kHz, easier to make loop for it.


"And don't forgett the inherent frequency of each metal, atomic vibration, a very precisse frequency for each metal."

I do not know neither one metal frequency. For real. Those "frequencies" man can meet in various lrl articles are all false. I think aint no metal producing any frequency.
If it was, than it will be possible to measure those. Since it is not possible to measure those - they dont exist.
Or any other method to prove any metal frequency.Plain piece of metal.

[roberts]

Dell it is very interesting article. I will read it later.
Regards

[J_Player]

I will need to see your loop choise ready here, so later to design rx circuitry according it.
Deal..?I don't know how to design a loop. This is the reason I asked you. The loop transmitting antennas I have seen in this forum are generally similar to metal detector coils with the Faraday shield removed. I doubt any radio engineering went into these coil transmitters, but they have been experimented with for a long time to find the best operation through trial and error.

While I don't know how to properly design a transmitting loop antenna or receiver, I do know some basic parameters that the system should maintain:

Since this is a field unit, the entire transmitter and receiver must be lightweight and portable, and should run on battery power for at least 4 hours operation before the batteries are discharged. The largest coil should not be more than 30 cm diameter. The preferred frequency is between 40 KHz and 160 kHz because this is a range that has shown the best stray noise immunity for this application in actual field testing. But 455 KHz will also work if necessary.

I believe the idea is to transmit a modulated carrier with the transmitting coil, then try to detect minute fluctuations in the received demodulated signal. The fluctuations may be seen as phase shifting or amplitude fluctuations, and maybe other very small artifacts in the received demodulated audio square wave. In this kind of transmitter and receiver, the receiving coil is carefully fixed in a position where there is no magnetic coupling to the transmitting coil. The only received signal should be an RF signal that is returned from the transmitting coil by reflection or other methods.

The received signal can be compared to the transmitted signal in order to find fluctuations. The receiver could also be watching for changes over adjustable time constants to find phase shifts or other irregularities in the signal. I suppose there are many methods to find fluctuations, and I don't know which is best.

I believe the transmitter is not so critical as long as the frequency and the power transmitted remain constant. I would think less than a watt is adequate for testing purposes. The receiver is the critical part. It must discern minute fluctuations in the signal, and must also be directional enough to find the source of the fluctuations.

I don't mind building the coils and transmitter and receiver, but I really don't know how to do it with any expertise. The only thing I know about this is any apparatus should be built without any metal parts near the coils, especially iron. If you can give some instructions of how to construct the device, then I can start making the coils. What I need to start is the wire size, and lengths, how many turns, and what kind of insulation. After the coils are ready, then we can start building the circuitry.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

The preferred frequency is between 40 KHz and 160 kHz because this is a range that has shown the best stray noise immunity for this application in actual field testing. But 455 KHz will also work if necessary.

Best wishes,
J_P

Low changes you'll obtain at 40 Khz, I try 59.5 because I made a coil center tapped and oscillator. The coil resonate at this frequency with the capacitors I have adjusted at the pF range. Is good, but changes is slow. Found with it a gold button Navy and mark of glasses plated in gold.

At 300 Khz, the detector tend to detect also metalic paper of cigarette box and other "trash". I believe 160 Khz is good. Also Alonso told me this is a good frequency. See the BFO I posted in this thread, frequency is 138-140 kHz.

[mosha]

Esteban, what FR used in mineoro devices. Regards.

[roberts]

J Player...ehm! Hah!? Now when i read Estebans last post, including your demands...hah,hah,hah!!!
Not possible! As far as i know, it is not possible to put transmitter and receiver in same box, working at the same time, at same frequency,and make receiver to cancel Tx signal, while at the same time expecting to receive echoed signal!?!? Not possible at all! That should be SF!
Not possible!
When starting this posting i had other thing on my mind - only the receiver, without any transmitter included in design. Now you and Esteban cleared up everything to me.
Esteban, what have you just posted is not possible! Think twice.
No matter how weak is transmitter, it will always oversaturate receiver with coil setup you described.
If you put coils separate in oposite planes...than nothing new will happen. You'll get good old 2 box!
If you put coils to overlap and balance - good old VLF IB...
But having 2 coils togather,nod coupled well will always lead to same situation - saturation, and possible destroying rx front end.
I really dont have a clue what really do you want? You want to detect coin at 40 meters distance (or whatever) but you dont have clear concept how to do that.
Esteban you are talking about so many frequencies...? Where,why,who,which,what for,how? Alonso told me that..Alonso told me this...Very confusing stories here.
For a moment, just for a moment i wanted to see if there is any sanity backup in all those stories...now i see. Not.
Sorry. I will repeat my attitude upon this again. This time i will be more polite than in the past. Do not feel offended, it is not my intention to offend anybody of you, but....all those stories abut "radio" tx,rx LRL, locating items at 3-4..up to 40 meters..nothing but fairy tales.Totaly empty stories.Kids plays. Esteban you are wasting your time playing with scap electronics, not only that - you are wasting everybody's else time here posting misty stories about some "secret" devices,radio tx's,rx's...God only knows what else!?
Huge waste of time! Bogus,fakes,toys.
I will not post here again any comment.
I will did what i said.If you give me loop specifications i will design complete receiver and post here. But i will not take a part here any more in this blur and misty stories and theories about impossible things.
I do beleive that you done a lot of different experiments. Also i do see now that you are absolutelly not awared at all what have you done so far. You are interpreting your experiences totally wrong. Doing that you are confusing yourself more and more. Like i said in the past; you are deeply lost in your uncontrolled and unawared experiments, totally confused.
It seems you learned many things in electronic on totally wrong way. It is very bad for you.You lost so many time.
I see that you are straightforward in your claims and posts.It is sad to see that you actually beleive in all you posted here.
Now i feel ashamed and sorry cose argued so much in the past, with you.
I should find some better way to help you.
First i suggest you to return to basics in electronic. Skip advanced stuff. Find somwhere on the internet some basics in radio. Read and learn. Try to understand. Everything what you cant understand, be free to ask here. I will be glad to explain to you, concerning radio.
Now i am off.

[Fred]

Hi
Not possible! As far as i know, it is not possible to put transmitter and receiver in same box, working at the same time, at same frequency,and make receiver to cancel Tx signal, while at the same time expecting to receive echoed signal..

Why not?
To cancel (null) as well of possible RX signal from TX, then to measure only fluctuations and phase differences from that relative "0" signal should be possible.
Of course RX cannot completely cancel TX signal,it may be not absolutely necessary?.
Fred

[J_Player]

J Player...ehm! Hah!? Now when i read Estebans last post, including your demands...hah,hah,hah!!!
Not possible! As far as i know, it is not possible to put transmitter and receiver in same box, working at the same time, at same frequency,and make receiver to cancel Tx signal, while at the same time expecting to receive echoed signal!?!? Not possible at all! That should be SF!
Not possible!Hi Robert,
Thank you for the answer. I guess it is not possible to design a VLF radio transmitter and receiver both operating in the same box that will allow the receiver to pick up a signal.

Well, at least this saved me many feet of coil wire. ;)

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Roberts

Don't understand your point! When I explain about coil and frequency, do you read well? Since I know, an of resonance detector is himself transmitter and receiver at same time! Or the BFO! Simple! Or cascode oscillator!

You need to go out of your castle for to see other things. This is the skeptical terrain.

You can explain me tons of theories and try suggest me I need learn about basic electronic. Yes, I need learn electronic very much, but I'm talking about reality, my own experience in this terrain.

No wasting time since I know what I'm talking.

Maybe wasting time trying to explain what I know.

Regards

Esteban

[J_Player]

I really dont have a clue what really do you want? You want to detect coin at 40 meters distance (or whatever) but you dont have clear concept how to do that.I do not want to build a LRL for the purpose of hunting for coins. I want to build a detector similar to Esteban style coil detectors so I can make independent tests to see if it responds to actual buried metals like he says it does.

What I am looking for is a detector like Esteban uses except built using calculations rather than simple experimenting with old radio circuit boards. From what you said, it is not possible to build a detector similar to Esteban's coil transmitters and operate a receiver at the same time. I do not know how he managed to run a coil transmitter without smoking his receiver, but he says he did. From this I must conclude the only possible way to construct one of these is by using the method Esteban uses.

However, that is impossible too, because Esteban has never posted a complete schematic with coil details that would permit building the style coil detectors he uses. I guess this means nobody will ever make any independent tests to see if his detectors work. The closest we have seen is Morgan's report of a detector made by Alonso, But Mogan's report was only for a few examples of what he saw. not the kind of testing to show what electrical signals were in the circuitry when it made beeping noise.

So we will continue with no information of how to test the reports of detecting buried metals at long range because it is said to be impossible.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

I do not know how he managed to run a coil transmitter without smoking his receiver, but he says he did. J_P
This is absolutely not an issue.In practice everyone can transmit and receive at the same time with any transceiver witout smoking anything.Any full duplex radio will do that , even in same band and with non-nulled antennas.And Robert knows it if he build cordless phones.Overloading maybe a problem, but problems doesnt exists, only solutions.

And i certainly hope Robert will participate ,as JP and Esteban says, to associate theory to practical observations.Only this way a project can really be improved.
But we need here to keep an OPEN MIND !!!!
regards,
Fred.

[roberts]

You must distinguish "duplex" from single frequency we are talking about here. Cordless phones usually do have huge difference in frequencies between base unit and mobile unit.
In some older models differences are more than 10MHz. Same thing with communication tranceivers.Most popular VHF(2m 144-146MHZ) is best example. In simplex once you press TX knob, RX circuitry switching OFF, so only transmitting is going ON. In repeaters mode, there is 600kHz difference between TX and RX frequency...etc.etc...even than RX is switched OFF, due strong EM field generated arround antena, which can easily burn RX front end.
OK if you want to use same freq. in this purpose, only way i can imagine it is to use pretty fast multiplexer. This will end with pretty complex design but totally trivial. So again, without to offend somebodys feelings, i guarantee there is no way that Esteban's device works in manner he described.No way.
If something he experienced for real, i do beleive he did, than he didnt find proper way to explain that here. Either he do not know how to explain, either he do not want to explain. It is not my job to analyze his thoughts and intentions, i can only comment his posts here.

[J_Player]

OK if you want to use same freq. in this purpose, only way i can imagine it is to use pretty fast multiplexer. This will end with pretty complex design but totally trivial. So again, without to offend somebodys feelings, i guarantee there is no way that Esteban's device works in manner he described.No way.Hi Robert,
The way Esteban described did not use a multiplexer at all. It used a transmitter and a receiver both with a coil antenna tuned to oscillate at the same frequency. When I look at the amount of wire that you say must be used to receive signals from a loop in the 455 Khz range, I wonder how the AM and SW bands are able to operate with wire loops of much smaller length wire. I see some of these radios using ferrite loops the size of your finger. Others use air core loops that fit on the back plane of the radio enclosure box, and have less than 30 feet of wire in them.

I have seen examples of mobile radio receivers tuned to the same frequency as transmitter, and can operate with the receiving antenna touching the transmitter antenna without causing any damage to the receiver. One example is my cordless phone. When I hold the receiving antenna against the transmitting base antenna I hear the demodulated sound as perfectly as if the receiver is 30 feet away from the transmitter. There has never been any damage to the hand held receiver from holding the antenna against the transmitting antenna. I imagine if I were to put the mobile phone transmitter and receiver into the same box, the receiver will still work as well as it does when removed from the box. Now, if the cordless phone was modified to work with a low frequency, and using a coil antenna, I believe the coil antennas could be easily made to fit in the same cordless phone enclosures, and would still operate without destroying the receiver when touching the TX and RX coils together.

Is it possible Esteban used the same method as a cordless phone uses to avoid destroying the receiver of his LRL detectors when the transmitter and receiver are in the same box? Is it possible that Esteban discovered a method of receiving radio waves with much smaller wire lengths than you specify, that is only known to radio receiver manufacturers and Esteban, but not you? :shrug:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

You must distinguish "duplex" from single frequency we are talking about here. Cordless phones usually do have huge difference in frequencies between base unit and mobile unit.
In some older models differences are more than 10MHz. Same thing with communication tranceivers.Most popular VHF(2m 144-146MHZ) is best example. In simplex once you press TX knob, RX circuitry switching OFF, so only transmitting is going ON. In repeaters mode, there is 600kHz difference between TX and RX frequency...etc.etc...even than RX is switched OFF, due strong EM field generated arround antena, which can easily burn RX front end.
OK if you want to use same freq. in this purpose, only way i can imagine it is to use pretty fast multiplexer. This will end with pretty complex design but totally trivial. So again, without to offend somebodys feelings, i guarantee there is no way that Esteban's device works in manner he described.No way.
If something he experienced for real, i do beleive he did, than he didnt find proper way to explain that here. Either he do not know how to explain, either he do not want to explain. It is not my job to analyze his thoughts and intentions, i can only comment his posts here.

Hi Robert,
even if I still think that 40meters for a coin is little hard to belive... :rolleyes: I think that maybe Esteban noticed something unusual about radio signals we maybe ignore or don't even think about much when talking about that stuff.

The means of detecting long or short waves or medium etc with small antennas is well known from at least 1century: use a tuned circuit... you'll increase Q and you'll gain selectivity ... for example using a ferrite rod on coil... then you'll get also directivity that way.

Actually most of radio equipments works like above: have inside smaller coils or antennas than required for 1/2 or 1/4 wavelenght... that's totally impossible to implement in small e.g. portable radios etc but also for most base stations... did you ever seen any 20Km wire/dipole antenna? maybe you just read about.... as many others here.

Now cleared this point , infact really obvious thing you can see in any AM/broadcast portable radio receiver... we can talk about the things we saw in posts and Esteban told us.

OK, tx and rx tuned on same frequency ? Where's the problem ? Nexus, Saxon, Anker and many others vlf/ib detectors use exactly that approach... or am I wrong ?

Rx saturation ? Why ? much depends on gain, nulling etc it's not automatic result that Rx stage will saturate always and easy just cause of coils disposition and factors you explained... Nexus is again a good example: one hundred and more volts peak to peak at tx and rx is stable... detector find stuff etc etc etc
Does Nexus violate any physics law ? :rolleyes:
Why resonance is a problem ...? I cannot understand this.

Could all this be used to detect a coin at 40meters? I think not. But , who knows... also before Wright's flight many excelent engineers and designers etc told to the World that was impossible to happen! Then it happened and they lose their bets and money! :lol:

You know... I'm not Esteban's supporter here... or Alonso supporter... or anyone else supporter... and think many stuff around LRLs is totally fake...I repeated here so many times...:lol: but resonace, for me, is not the problem...

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

I use only receiver part, because when occurs the detection the background noise is little up (maybe the hear can't catch, but the audio generator convert the difference in beeps).

But off course, you can use transmitter as receiver catching microvariations occurs in transmission beam. This is other way for to see the film. Can appears extrange, but is part of the experience.

I understand what happens with many of us: wish to dress with all the possible theories and later start to work in it. If you can't find the theory wich support it, find you it in the field.

Regards

Esteban

[Qiaozhi]

I use only receiver part, because when occurs the detection the background noise is little up (maybe the hear can't catch, but the audio generator convert the difference in beeps).

But off course, you can use transmitter as receiver catching microvariations occurs in transmission beam. This is other way for to see the film. Can appears extrange, but is part of the experience.

I understand what happens with many of us: wish to dress with all the possible theories and later start to work in it. If you can't find the theory wich support it, find you it in the field.

Regards

Esteban
Hi Esteban,

You always tease us with your block diagrams. ;)
What is in the "gold classifier"? :shrug:

[roberts]

Hi Robert,
The way Esteban described did not use a multiplexer at all. It used a transmitter and a receiver both with a coil antenna tuned to oscillate at the same frequency. When I look at the amount of wire that you say must be used to receive signals from a loop in the 455 Khz range, I wonder how the AM and SW bands are able to operate with wire loops of much smaller length wire. I see some of these radios using ferrite loops the size of your finger. Others use air core loops that fit on the back plane of the radio enclosure box, and have less than 30 feet of wire in them.

I have seen examples of mobile radio receivers tuned to the same frequency as transmitter, and can operate with the receiving antenna touching the transmitter antenna without causing any damage to the receiver. One example is my cordless phone. When I hold the receiving antenna against the transmitting base antenna I hear the demodulated sound as perfectly as if the receiver is 30 feet away from the transmitter. There has never been any damage to the hand held receiver from holding the antenna against the transmitting antenna. I imagine if I were to put the mobile phone transmitter and receiver into the same box, the receiver will still work as well as it does when removed from the box. Now, if the cordless phone was modified to work with a low frequency, and using a coil antenna, I believe the coil antennas could be easily made to fit in the same cordless phone enclosures, and would still operate without destroying the receiver when touching the TX and RX coils together.

Is it possible Esteban used the same method as a cordless phone uses to avoid destroying the receiver of his LRL detectors when the transmitter and receiver are in the same box? Is it possible that Esteban discovered a method of receiving radio waves with much smaller wire lengths than you specify, that is only known to radio receiver manufacturers and Esteban, but not you? :shrug:

Best wishes,
J_P


J Player, it seems that you dont read my post at all.Or you just took skim look on few lines and than not trying to understand my point!?
I just explained situation at cordless phones!? Didnt I???
Base and mobile unit DOES NOT operate at same frequency at all! Difference in those is H U G E ! Read this; H U G E !!! At old 30-59Mhz phones diffrences were 10-15 MHZ ! Read again 10-15MHz ! DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME NOW?
In newer cordless phones (900-1800MHZ) differences ARE EVEN BIGGER!
MUCH BIGGER! I have to write capitals here just to attract your attention to read and understand this.
You are talking about small ferrite rod antennas for AM 500-1600kHz...
Ha,ha,ha,ha!!!! Have you ever heard of "electonic lenght"? Have you ever heard that term? Seriouslly i have doubts!
Well, that small ferrite rod antena has "electronic" lenght od W/4 or W/2 and in few rare cases even W - full lenght. But usually selectivity in that case is not that great. That was the price had to be payed making small portable, handy, COMERCIAL AM recivers..
So...i will repeat words i told in last post to Esteban. People i am really tired and exhausted from every day job to come here and teach you basics and fundamentals.It is not that i dont have good will...i am just to tired.
Please read some basics about radio before come here and talk nonsences.

[Esteban]

J Player, it seems that you dont read my post at all.Or you just took skim look on few lines and than not trying to understand my point!?
I just explained situation at cordless phones!? Didnt I???
Base and mobile unit DOES NOT operate at same frequency at all! Difference in those is H U G E ! Read this; H U G E !!! At old 30-59Mhz phones diffrences were 10-15 MHZ ! Read again 10-15MHz ! DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME NOW?
In newer cordless phones (900-1800MHZ) differences ARE EVEN BIGGER!
MUCH BIGGER! I have to write capitals here just to attract your attention to read and understand this.
You are talking about small ferrite rod antennas for AM 500-1600kHz...
Ha,ha,ha,ha!!!! Have you ever heard of "electonic lenght"? Have you ever heard that term? Seriouslly i have doubts!
Well, that small ferrite rod antena has "electronic" lenght od W/4 or W/2 and in few rare cases even W - full lenght. But usually selectivity in that case is not that great. That was the price had to be payed making small portable, handy, COMERCIAL AM recivers..
So...i will repeat words i told in last post to Esteban. People i am really tired and exhausted from every day job to come here and teach you basics and fundamentals.It is not that i dont have good will...i am just to tired.
Please read some basics about radio before come here and talk nonsences.

The problem is you wish to explain from your radioafiction hobby, and not about possibilities. Your experience is regarding talking with radio, no building it, maybe you don't touch the solder iron as many theorics... Put the limits yourself, leave other investigate in real field, not from a chair and computer only... :nono:

Regards

Esteban

[roberts]

Hi Robert,
even if I still think that 40meters for a coin is little hard to belive... :rolleyes: I think that maybe Esteban noticed something unusual about radio signals we maybe ignore or don't even think about much when talking about that stuff.

The means of detecting long or short waves or medium etc with small antennas is well known from at least 1century: use a tuned circuit... you'll increase Q and you'll gain selectivity ... for example using a ferrite rod on coil... then you'll get also directivity that way.

Actually most of radio equipments works like above: have inside smaller coils or antennas than required for 1/2 or 1/4 wavelenght... that's totally impossible to implement in small e.g. portable radios etc but also for most base stations... did you ever seen any 20Km wire/dipole antenna? maybe you just read about.... as many others here.

Now cleared this point , infact really obvious thing you can see in any AM/broadcast portable radio receiver... we can talk about the things we saw in posts and Esteban told us.

OK, tx and rx tuned on same frequency ? Where's the problem ? Nexus, Saxon, Anker and many others vlf/ib detectors use exactly that approach... or am I wrong ?

Rx saturation ? Why ? much depends on gain, nulling etc it's not automatic result that Rx stage will saturate always and easy just cause of coils disposition and factors you explained... Nexus is again a good example: one hundred and more volts peak to peak at tx and rx is stable... detector find stuff etc etc etc
Does Nexus violate any physics law ? :rolleyes:
Why resonance is a problem ...? I cannot understand this.

Could all this be used to detect a coin at 40meters? I think not. But , who knows... also before Wright's flight many excelent engineers and designers etc told to the World that was impossible to happen! Then it happened and they lose their bets and money! :lol:

You know... I'm not Esteban's supporter here... or Alonso supporter... or anyone else supporter... and think many stuff around LRLs is totally fake...I repeated here so many times...:lol: but resonace, for me, is not the problem...

Kind regards,
Max


Although i respect you much more than others (ivconics credits upon you) i have to admit that now even you disapointed me!? It seems that you also didnt read my posts carefully and didnt understand it?
"Nexus,Saxon,Anker..."?? What are you comparing here? Those machines are using balanced coils, man! Balanced! TX and RX coils are balnced in manner that only minor induction occurs in RX part without metal in its vicinity.Thats why RX front end is not in full saturation, thats why any detection is possible. Ask Quiaozhi here about making coils for Nexus!? Most difficult and most tricky part of all...in Nexus designing.
What the heck this got to do with subject here? As i understood, subject is Estebans device, sort of hybrid between radio and md...or something simillar. I dont even have a proper name for it?
J Player gave here rough picture about what he is interesting to make. Ok ...
J Player you can use cordless phone (or only some parts from it) but it will still run on different frequencies! If you mod it and achieve to TX and RX do run on same frequencies than you'll get full saturation of RX and possible damage of front end.
I guess you mixed that RX part with some ordinary wide band radio? Am i right? RX part - reciver in cordless phone is strictly defined to receive only one frequency. That's why we put RX quartz there among few other things.
You said you can touch one to another antenna and nothing burns.I agree.
Few reasons for that.First very low power of used TX, second filters on RX does not allow oversaturation in simillar situations. Do examine MC3361 more carefully.Download its datasheet and read. Precautions had be taken to avoid simillar.
But you just can not use that in LRL as Esteban explained.That is my main point.
For the end i will again express my huge wonder about Estebans posts???
First (in earlier posts) he calimed to using TX in his design. Now (latest post) i read that he is using only receiver. Than agin he repeating something about transmitting...reciving...mixing???? The hell? Esteban are you real? Are your intentions here are to make jokes upon us or you just dont know what are you talking here...any more??? Calm down and decide what you gonna say in next post. First read your previous posts and than try to respect some consistency in presenting your idea here...
I am cofused more and more? I do not understand at all what are you talking here???
Come to think...maybe it was your initial idea?

[roberts]

The problem is you wish to explain from your radioafiction hobby, and not about possibilities. Your experience is regarding talking with radio, no building it, maybe you don't touch the solder iron as many theorics... Put the limits yourself, leave other investigate in real field, not from a chair and computer only... :nono:

Regards

Esteban


Radiofiction....??? What is that? I am ee and i had designed so many radio designs so far, that you cant imagine. Some of largest electronic manufacturers in the world (not allowed to name those) are using my designs today. I earned a lot of money with my electronic knowledge.Do you consider yourself smarter than those? Those payed me so much money and still they are stupid. Waiting you to clear them up? Ha?
I have electronic lab, every idea i do first practically to see if something goes wrong, before selling project to some customer (manufacturer).
I mentioned i am very tired these days. Yesterday just finished huge radio project. Today checked in lab. It is alive and good working. Money for me.
I am using soldering iron all my life...poor Esteban!
Let me explain the whole process. First initial idea is drawn on paper. Second data input in pc. Later simulator do their job. Finally drawing and making pcb and soldering components. Last is to plug it ON and watch results.Puting on test,probe..for week or two. All eventual mistakes to be corrected and last is to put it on closed market and sell.
That is my life for over 20 years. Now you come here and tell me that i am hobbyst??? OK i am hobbyst...but rich one! :D:D:D
I'll better continue to post posts in old manner.This new style is exhausting me more...

[Esteban]

Although i respect you much more than others (ivconics credits upon you) i have to admit that now even you disapointed me!? It seems that you also didnt read my posts carefully and didnt understand it?
"Nexus,Saxon,Anker..."?? What are you comparing here? Those machines are using balanced coils, man! Balanced! TX and RX coils are balnced in manner that only minor induction occurs in RX part without metal in its vicinity.Thats why RX front end is not in full saturation, thats why any detection is possible. Ask Quiaozhi here about making coils for Nexus!? Most difficult and most tricky part of all...in Nexus designing.
What the heck this got to do with subject here? As i understood, subject is Estebans device, sort of hybrid between radio and md...or something simillar. I dont even have a proper name for it?
J Player gave here rough picture about what he is interesting to make. Ok ...
J Player you can use cordless phone (or only some parts from it) but it will still run on different frequencies! If you mod it and achieve to TX and RX do run on same frequencies than you'll get full saturation of RX and possible damage of front end.
I guess you mixed that RX part with some ordinary wide band radio? Am i right? RX part - reciver in cordless phone is strictly defined to receive only one frequency. That's why we put RX quartz there among few other things.
You said you can touch one to another antenna and nothing burns.I agree.
Few reasons for that.First very low power of used TX, second filters on RX does not allow oversaturation in simillar situations. Do examine MC3361 more carefully.Download its datasheet and read. Precautions had be taken to avoid simillar.
But you just can not use that in LRL as Esteban explained.That is my main point.
For the end i will again express my huge wonder about Estebans posts???
First (in earlier posts) he calimed to using TX in his design. Now (latest post) i read that he is using only receiver. Than agin he repeating something about transmitting...reciving...mixing???? The hell? Esteban are you real? Are your intentions here are to make jokes upon us or you just dont know what are you talking here...any more??? Calm down and decide what you gonna say in next post. First read your previous posts and than try to respect some consistency in presenting your idea here...
I am cofused more and more? I do not understand at all what are you talking here???
Come to think...maybe it was your initial idea?

Is your problem if you can't. Not mine. Your "logic" doesn't work here... since phenomenom has not explained by nobody, but there is waiting for you...

[Esteban]

Radiofiction....??? What is that? I am ee and i had designed so many radio designs so far, that you cant imagine. Some of largest electronic manufacturers in the world (not allowed to name those) are using my designs today. I earned a lot of money with my electronic knowledge.Do you consider yourself smarter than those? Those payed me so much money and still they are stupid. Waiting you to clear them up? Ha?
I have electronic lab, every idea i do first practically to see if something goes wrong, before selling project to some customer (manufacturer).
I mentioned i am very tired these days. Yesterday just finished huge radio project. Today checked in lab. It is alive and good working. Money for me.
I am using soldering iron all my life...poor Esteban!
Let me explain the whole process. First initial idea is drawn on paper. Second data input in pc. Later simulator do their job. Finally drawing and making pcb and soldering components. Last is to plug it ON and watch results.Puting on test,probe..for week or two. All eventual mistakes to be corrected and last is to put it on closed market and sell.
That is my life for over 20 years. Now you come here and tell me that i am hobbyst??? OK i am hobbyst...but rich one! :D:D:D
I'll better continue to post posts in old manner.This new style is exhausting me more...

You as RObert told that radioafiction is your hobby, no radio-construction. I'll believe if Ivconic confirm it.

But directly tell you I don't need your supossed radio-background, this no mean nothing for my experimentations.

In other terms, I have faith in people wich works in radio and tell me: "yes, why not, radio is a potable way for to detect noble metals at distance" and can help with possible solutions. But if you, since your radio-background, negates it, poor Roberts!

Regards

Esteban

[Fred]

Well, that small ferrite rod antena has "electronic" lenght od W/4 or W/2 and in few rare cases even W - full lenght. But usually selectivity in that case is not that great. That was the price had to be payed making small portable, handy, COMERCIAL AM recivers.....
Hopefully the antenna is not what determines selectivity.
Antennas for any frequency can be built with any lenght of wire,(efficiency may be a problem then),but very small loops can be built for very long wavelenght with great selectivity (wich ,generaly speaking,is a problem) and acceptable efficiency.

As i understood, subject is Estebans device, sort of hybrid between radio and md...or something simillar. I dont even have a proper name for it?...
That´s the point :Esteban claims results, and we dont know what phenomenon causes them.So we try to learn.So we can give a name to it.

receiver in cordless phone is strictly defined to receive only one frequency....
Not all of them.Many use frequency evasion and hopping.

You said you can touch one to another antenna and nothing burns.I agree.Few reasons for that.First very low power of used TX, second filters on RX does not allow oversaturation in simillar situations. Do examine MC3361 more carefully.Download its datasheet and read. Precautions had be taken to avoid simillar.....
Powers involved are in the range of MD, or even more.

I was talking before about full duplex, you know there are dual-band transceivers that do simultaneous VHf/VHF and U/U RX ...I aslo can have 2 antenas side to side and transmit 50w in one ot them without smoking anything...of course it is not a good thing to do, but it does happen, and coupling is very strong here.No nulling, and no mw powers as in our subject!

First (in earlier posts) he calimed to using TX in his design. Now (latest post) i read that he is using only receiver. Than agin he repeating something about transmitting...reciving...mixing???? The hell? Esteban are you real? ...
I think Esteban doesn´t really know what causes the effect , just like you and me.But he have observed something...

Fred.

[Esteban]

I work in different areas for long range detection and there are "slows" systems for to detect the phenomenom and very fast and "scandalous" at the point that the stretcher system detect a large rifle cartridge in an angle of 60º 10 meters in distance, some difficult to find, but for this open base system really a car mass very near no interrupt the detection!!!

Stretcher system tend to pick lead very near, so there are gradation in metals wich produce more electrical field than others.

Oscillator is "slow", radio is "semi-slow", infrared (modulated) in conjunction with radio is precisse... Microvoltmeter based on open base go long, 70 m for a small silver treasure we found at 80 cm depth... but very sensitive to electric lines...

All systems works with pros and contras...

[roberts]

Hopefully the antenna is not what determines selectivity.
Antennas for any frequency can be built with any lenght of wire,(efficiency may be a problem then),but very small loops can be built for very long wavelenght with great selectivity (wich ,generaly speaking,is a problem) and acceptable efficiency.


That´s the point :Esteban claims results, and we dont know what phenomenon causes them.So we try to learn.So we can give a name to it.


Not all of them.Many use frequency evasion and hopping.


Powers involved are in the range of MD, or even more.

I was talking before about full duplex, you know there are dual-band transceivers that do simultaneous VHf/VHF and U/U RX ...I aslo can have 2 antenas side to side and transmit 50w in one ot them without smoking anything...of course it is not a good thing to do, but it does happen, and coupling is very strong here.No nulling, and no mw powers as in our subject!


I think Esteban doesn´t really know what causes the effect , just like you and me.But he have observed something...

Fred.

Fine notes (remarks). Just because of that kind of laic approach i suggested you to return to basics. Again thesis substitutions, again mixing to many different things togather.Again pulling out very wrong conclusions. It will take posts and posts to explain and set up all the things you mentioned above. I should be super human to withstand and explain all to you here.
For example have you ever heard about agc? Automatic gain control?
I see you are interested about things, but as i tought you took short,skim look at every of things mentioned here....
No antenna doesnt determining selectivity but strongly influencig it. Type of antenna. Small ferrite rod antena is compromise in portable units, later adopted in other types of comercial units also. Money talks - **** walks!
"Esteban calims results..." So what? Hung also, Dell also, Mineoro also,Gravitatir also,Ranger teller also...So?
Why is Esteban better,smarter and more honest than others? Ok he is our member fellow here, but it does not mean automatically he is speaking truth or he knows what he is speaking at all.Does it?


"Not all of them.Many use frequency evasion and hopping.."
Now i can name to you at least 50 various examples, principles,techniques..etc.etc. tralalah, tralalah!
We are talking here about Esteban,cordless phone,lrl hybrid. We are not talking here about every possible radio principle on this planet.
Have you ever heard about tetra systems?

"I aslo can have 2 antenas side to side and transmit 50w in one ot them without smoking anything..."

Really???!:razz::lol::lol: I would like to see that!? 50W???:oh::D:D:D

"
I think Esteban doesn´t really know what causes the effect , just like you and me.But he have observed something..."

What? Few funny sketches? Wanna more? I can draw you 1000 000 more interesting without obligation to explain anything.
Remeber Iconos? Or any other "secret" LRL project?

This is usuall, same old story, like any other we had in the past on this forum.
Trlalalah..tralalah...When this subject expired,we will have short break and than all over again - new subject will appear, new "secret" allmighty lrl device.

[roberts]

You as RObert told that radioafiction is your hobby, no radio-construction. I'll believe if Ivconic confirm it.

He is not here to confirm this. Besides why should i ask anybody to confirm my life. Yes you are right, i am radiamateur also, for over the 25 years. That's how i met Ivconic, at the first place.

But directly tell you I don't need your supossed radio-background, this no mean nothing for my experimentations.

Obviously not. Your lost.

In other terms, I have faith in people wich works in radio and tell me: "yes, why not, radio is a potable way for to detect noble metals at distance" and can help with possible solutions. But if you, since your radio-background, negates it, poor Roberts!

That's why i "jumped" here! I wanted to be closely informed by you about your efforts, in manner to learn something new and eventually help you in your work..but as far as it concerned about radio stuff. I cant help you with impossible things. I can only help you with possible, already proven things.


Regards

Esteban


...

[Fred]

Robert,
I hesitated in answering , as this discussion dont seem to be very productive any more.But you put some questions,so i will shortly answer :

Fine notes (remarks). Just because of that kind of laic approach i suggested you to return to basics. Again thesis substitutions, again mixing to many different things togather....
I just made some simple tecnhical observations.I believe they are correct.

I should be super human to withstand and explain all to you here....
:D No problem :lol:

For example have you ever heard about agc? Automatic gain control?....
Yes of course, this is the very basic of receivers .?? so ? You found the solution for your saturation problems...:)

"Esteban calims results..." So what? Hung also, Dell also, Mineoro also,Gravitatir also,Ranger teller also...So?
Why is Esteban better,smarter and more honest than others? Ok he is our member fellow here, but it does not mean automatically he is speaking truth or he knows what he is speaking at all.Does it?...
Of course not, but unlike others we have still to prove what he says is wrong...he doens´t want to sell anything or try to convince anyone, i think.

We are talking here about Esteban,cordless phone,lrl hybrid. We are not talking here about every possible radio principle on this planet.Have you ever heard about tetra systems?.
Ok, i see.Obviously Esteban dont need frequency changes.But i see in the IC that you call MC3361 a more advanced controller/PLL.I may be wrong of course.And yes i heard about Tetra,not very deeply but i found interesting that it is one of the few really "unbreakable" systems.:rolleyes:

"I aslo can have 2 antenas side to side and transmit 50w in one ot them without smoking anything"
Really???!:razz::lol::lol: I would like to see that!? 50W???:oh::D:D:D...
??? Well yes, any VHF transceiver has 50W RF output,come on Robert ,you know that and i have several antenas on same mast, so what´s the surprise?


This is usuall, same old story, like any other we had in the past on this forum..
What about if it is different this time? how will you know if you reject it at first glance ?

Fred.

[J_Player]

J Player, it seems that you dont read my post at all.Or you just took skim look on few lines and than not trying to understand my point!?
I just explained situation at cordless phones!? Didnt I???
Base and mobile unit DOES NOT operate at same frequency at all! Difference in those is H U G E ! Read this; H U G E !!! At old 30-59Mhz phones diffrences were 10-15 MHZ ! Read again 10-15MHz ! DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME NOW?
In newer cordless phones (900-1800MHZ) differences ARE EVEN BIGGER!
MUCH BIGGER! I have to write capitals here just to attract your attention to read and understand this.It is not necessary to have radio engineering credentials in order to understand the duplex arrangement on cordless phones. Most of us are aware that there are two frequencies used. One for the base station to transmit to the mobile receiver, and a second frequency to transmit from the mobile handset to the base station. This is necessary in order to keep from confusing the 2-way communication. We also know that the handset receiver is receiving the same frequency that is transmitted from the base station. At the same time the base station is receiving the same second frequency that is transmitted from the handset.

Now knowing that there are two receivers receiving signals on two separate transmitted frequencies, these two receivers do not self-destruct when the antennas are touched together. I could place the handset and base station in an enclosure with the handset antenna strapped to the base station antenna, and I would have two receivers picking up the same signal as sent from two transmitters in "the same box". If it was true that the receivers could not tolerate being in the same box as the transmitters, then both the base station receiver and the handset receiver would be destroyed by touching the antennas together. However, this is not the case.

I tried a second experiment to see if this is also true for a non-duplex transmitter and receiver. I took the antenna from a wireless microphone that transmits on the AM broadcast band using a 9v battery (similar to the power used in Esteban's transmitters), and I touched this transmitter antenna to the ferrite coil on a battery powered AM radio that was tuned to receive signals from the wireless microphone. The AM radio was not damaged. Then I touched the antenna to the 4.5 inch coil receiving antenna at the back of an AM receiver powered by the mains. It did not destroy this this receiver either. Thus I made a demonstration that an AM band loop receiver is not destroyed by touching a low power transmitter coil tuned to the same frequency when no duplex electronics are involved. You are talking about small ferrite rod antennas for AM 500-1600kHz...
Ha,ha,ha,ha!!!! Have you ever heard of "electonic lenght"? Have you ever heard that term? Seriouslly i have doubts!
Well, that small ferrite rod antena has "electronic" lenght od W/4 or W/2 and in few rare cases even W - full lenght. But usually selectivity in that case is not that great. That was the price had to be payed making small portable, handy, COMERCIAL AM recivers..
So...i will repeat words i told in last post to Esteban. People i am really tired and exhausted from every day job to come here and teach you basics and fundamentals.It is not that i dont have good will...i am just to tired.
Please read some basics about radio before come here and talk nonsences.Yes, I have heard of electronic length. And I am familiar with wavelengths and basic antenna theory. But I am not a radio engineer, and I expect that a radio engineer would know better than to say it is necessary to use long lengths of wire when there are working receivers using short loops. I think a radio engineer would know that it is possible to touch a receiving loop antenna to a low power transmitting antenna without destroying the receiver. I think a radio engineer would know better than to try to confuse the presence of a duplex arrangement in cordless phones to imply that the handset is not receiving the same frequency that is transmitted by the base unit when the antennas are touched together.

The fact about small loop antennas, whether they have a ferrite core or air core is they receive the signals they are tuned to without requiring the lengths of wire you specified. The theory of why they work is not the issue. The issue is that a radio engineer is telling us that everything Esteban does is impossible, including small loop antennas and putting the receiver in the same box as the transmitter. Is this really impossible? We see small air core loop or ferrite loop antennas used routinely in commercial applications. We also see that holding an AM wireless microphone antenna against an AM receiver antenna did not cause any damage to two receivers tested. If I can touch a low power transmitter antenna against a receiver coil tuned to the same frequency with no damage, then why can't Esteban?

It appears your motive is not to help to understand how to build a better version of Esteban's apparatus, but to use technical theory details to prove his machines cannot work. The problem is you have made technical statements that are not always true, and have been demonstrated to be workable outside the limitations you say are necessary.

I don't know if Esteban's machines work or not. But when I hear both Morgan and Esteban reporting that they found long-time buried metal objects at a farther distance than a metal detector can find them, then I think it is a good idea to build a similar apparatus to see if I can also observe the same thing that they reported. The theories of radio and magnetic fields do not describe any way this could work, but I don't see why there is any problem in taking a look to see if we can verify their reports.

Best wishes,
J_P

[hillman]

hi to all
hi Esteban :a small silver treasure at 70 m and 80cm depth is great job in my country ther is a lot of silver coins that value more than 1000 $ for each so if I can get a silver LRL I will buy it and if you want to share it I dont mind:rolleyes:

[roberts]

Like i said; i need to be super human to explain all to you here concerning radio and everything you stated about radio here. Even if i was super human (which i am not of course) i will not waste my time here any more, i do have much smarter things to do in my life. I can see that you already made your decisions, so go on! Who's stoping you? Make radio md and locate coins at 40 meters. Go on!
J Player you said you checked all my points and turned i was wrong all the time? How nice? You won! Bravo! But only in your dreams....:lol:
Totally trivial "tests" you made (if real) with your am radio,cordless phone , antena shaft et.etc....means zero! Nothing.
Like Esteban, you also do not know what are you doing and what are you saying. You are totally not awared of things you been talked about here.
So be it.
I dont want to teach you here for nothing. From now on, if you want to learn something you must pay. Knowledge is most expensive thing on this world. You will realize that sooner or later.
I will never appear here again posting on this subject, simply cose i do not have with whom to talk here.
Wish you succes in locating coin at 40 meters!:lol::lol::lol:

[J_Player]

J Player you said you checked all my points and turned i was wrong all the time?No, that is not what I said. I said you were wrong when you said a transmitter cannot exist in the same box as a receiver without destroying the receiver. And I said it is not necessary to use the lengths of wire you specified to receive a signal under 500 khz. It can be accomplished with small loops.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

J_Player


Of course, you can receive 500 Khz with a small ferrite RF trafo!!! If not, Roberts isn't the supossed radio-designer!!!:lol:

[Fred]

J_Player
Of course, you can receive 500 Khz with a small ferrite RF trafo!!! If not, Roberts isn't the supossed radio-designer!!!:lol:

Esteban,

Could you tell how wet soil make influence on detection? Here it´s raining all the time,:frown: do you think PD can be used?

Regards,
Fred.

[Esteban]

Fred,

I note that very light rain improve the detection, this is, very tenuous drizzle. The drops when falls generate a voltage and I think is a bridge between the detector and target.

Wet terrain and rain all the time are very bad! Occurs that also the air is very wet. I believe a combination with infrared will be a solution. No experience in sites with rains all the time.

[Fred]

Fred,

I note that very light rain improve the detection, this is, very tenuous drizzle. The drops when falls generate a voltage and I think is a bridge between the detector and target.

Wet terrain and rain all the time are very bad! Occurs that also the air is very wet. I believe a combination with infrared will be a solution. No experience in sites with rains all the time.

Ok thanks for answer,here in winter its wet because o rain, and in summer its wet because of sun,like in sauna :shocked:

Regards,
Fred.

[Esteban]

The weather you describe is like British channel zone as the "D Day"! :)

[roberts]

:lol:Ha,ha,ha,haah!!!:lol::lol::lol:
I dont beleive this...?!?!? You actually talking here like that scrapy toy is really working??? Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha!!!!:lol::lol::lol:
Again you will get away from offering some real things here, Esteban!?
Ha,ah,ah,ah!!! Just count how many threads here were started in same manner!? How many same stories already we have here!?
Is there any possible END of this???
I dont beleive this!?:oh:
It is like one of those funny,low level tv latino soaps!?
Again plain,empty fairy tales, with few funny, nonsenced photos, a bunch of unaprovable claims....and NOTHING else!?
Ha,ha,ha,ha!!!
This dont even nerving me any more. This starting to jinks me more and more.
Only one problem here; ther are no new members join in this any more!?
How come?
Only "old very well known" characters here, and nobody new!?
How can you explain this Esteban?
Day by day you are loosing your audience here.
I guess people already used on those stories and doesnt pay any attention any more here.:lol::lol::lol:
Everybody so far saw it is nothing else but mumbble-jumbble stories...
A kind a sorry for you fellas..almost!:lol::razz:

[J_Player]

Day by day you are loosing your audience here.
I guess people already used on those stories and doesnt pay any attention any more here.Audience? The best audience we ever had in the remote sensing forum was for the Robertoro Show. Yes, the incredible Robertoro was the best, most entertaining show in Remote Sensing, with all it's beer-drinking beach girls. Too bad it was removed.

Best wishes,
J_P

[roberts]

Audience? The best audience we ever had in the remote sensing forum was for the Robertoro Show. Yes, the incredible Robertoro was the best, most entertaining show in Remote Sensing, with all it's beer-drinking beach girls. Too bad it was removed.

Best wishes,
J_P


Tend to agree!
At least we put some light on this dark place! Better to see nice girls here more oftenly, than to be anoyed by same old stories about locating coin at 40-800 meters distances...wow!

[bugwhiskers]

Attached is a photo of my favourite LRL, very reliable and is solar powered.

regards
bugwhiskers

[Esteban]

At least we put some light on this dark place!
:shrug:

??????

[Esteban]

Roberts, if you can't demonstrate that electronic LRL doesn't work, please post your experience in electronic LRL field... But I'll be easy the life... Post your radio design projects... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Esteban]

Audience? The best audience we ever had in the remote sensing forum was for the Robertoro Show. Yes, the incredible Robertoro was the best, most entertaining show in Remote Sensing, with all it's beer-drinking beach girls. Too bad it was removed.

Best wishes,
J_P


Yes, just show!!!

Regards

Esteban

[Seden]

Esteban,

Have you ever tried using Scintillation Crystals for an LRL? I just ordered a Plastic Scintillator off of ebay which goes for $7.50USD per square inch, so 1 inch is what I bought. Made by Saint-Gobain Crystals and model is BC-412. The characteristics that I thought were interesting were detects 100KeV to 5MeV gamma-rays,Fast Neutrons,Charged Particles,Cosmic Rays,muons,and protons. What I plan on doing is getting lead foil and surroud it on every side except the front like Armin Bickel 8) did with his Scintillation Crystals.

Randy

[Max]

Esteban,

Have you ever tried using Scintillation Crystals for an LRL? I just ordered a Plastic Scintillator off of ebay which goes for $7.50USD per square inch, so 1 inch is what I bought. Made by Saint-Gobain Crystals and model is BC-412. The characteristics that I thought were interesting were detects 100KeV to 5MeV gamma-rays,Fast Neutrons,Charged Particles,Cosmic Rays,muons,and protons. What I plan on doing is getting lead foil and surroud it on every side except the front like Armin Bickel 8) did with his Scintillation Crystals.

Randy

Hi,
I think could work... but requires maybe days... or weeks to have "images" of stuff underground cause of natural radio-activity sources.

I think you must also protect it from solar light someway... and use some ccd stuff + digital storage device: then analyze off-line by some link... to a PC.

It's interesting idea... but the problem is that natural sources are so often weak and require too much time to get good results... Bickel made that stuff with photographic things buried for many time... and I always suspected that radon gas was (e.g. from thermal water sources) there to aid him... :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Morgan]

Roberts, if you can't demonstrate that electronic LRL doesn't work, please post your experience in electronic LRL field... But I'll be easy the life... Post your radio design projects... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Until now only GEO make this device(pistoldetektor)and put it to work with diferente search coils.Anyway ,he already get some results(metal dor at 2,50m distance with 4"coil).I think he is traveling now,but when return i´m sure he will make good improvments on pistoldetektor and maybe will share with us all new discoveries.
I dont understand why some people here dont believe and play jokes about what me and Esteban experienced with this device...

[J_Player]

I think could work... but requires maybe days... or weeks to have "images" of stuff underground cause of natural radio-activity sources.

I think you must also protect it from solar light someway... and use some ccd stuff + digital storage device: then analyze off-line by some link... to a PC.

It's interesting idea... but the problem is that natural sources are so often weak and require too much time to get good results... Bickel made that stuff with photographic things buried for many time... and I always suspected that radon gas was (e.g. from thermal water sources) there to aid him... :lol:I have used a Bickel isotope detector made in the 1980s. This detector does not require days to produce a result. It takes measurements instantaneously, and can be used in a car or plane. Solar light does not effect the Bickel isotope detector. The scintillating crystal is housed in a lead cup that is open at the bottom, and has a cylindrical aluminum enclosure around the probe that prevents any light from entering in the photomultiplier area. The only storage device Dr. Bickel used was a small chart recorder to create maps of the signal when flying over a plot of ground in a grid pattern.

The limitation of his isotope detector was caused by atmospheric effects that only permitted him to take accurate readings in the morning when sampling ground in North America. Aside from this limitation, the isotope detector worked very well. Millions of dollars worth of copper, silver, gold, petroleum, and other minerals have been recovered using the Bickel Isotope detectors to locate them. Petroleum can be detected as deep as 10,000 feet, but most metals and ores can only be detected to 5000 feet.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Seden]

It will be interesting building and testing it. Have read quite a bit about Gamma Spectrometry and it appears the challege will be calibrating the unit. Very impressive papers showing the spectrum of different metals,this is truly an LRL backed by science. How did Dr. Bickel calibrate his units?

Randy

[J_Player]

It will be interesting building and testing it. Have read quite a bit about Gamma Spectrometry and it appears the challege will be calibrating the unit. Very impressive papers showing the spectrum of different metals,this is truly an LRL backed by science. How did Dr. Bickel calibrate his units?Hi Seden,
He measured the signal returned by the photomultiplier tube and then adjusted his filters and pulse traps to catch the flashes of light that corresponded with the stable gold isotope. He said the isotope detector would not work when using inferior scintillating crystals. He could not use the crystals made by the US manufacturers. He had access to foreign sources that usually only sell to government agencies. Bickel said the crystals he used were the best in the world, but their scintillating properties would deteriorate over a period of 5 years, making it necessary to replace the crystal for good performance.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Hi,
I think could work... but requires maybe days... or weeks to have "images" of stuff underground cause of natural radio-activity sources.

I think you must also protect it from solar light someway... and use some ccd stuff + digital storage device: then analyze off-line by some link... to a PC.

It's interesting idea... but the problem is that natural sources are so often weak and require too much time to get good results... Bickel made that stuff with photographic things buried for many time... and I always suspected that radon gas was (e.g. from thermal water sources) there to aid him... :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

J_Player

The text was posted by Max, no by Morgan. What happens with the automatic quotation tool?

[Esteban]

Esteban,

Have you ever tried using Scintillation Crystals for an LRL? I just ordered a Plastic Scintillator off of ebay which goes for $7.50USD per square inch, so 1 inch is what I bought. Made by Saint-Gobain Crystals and model is BC-412. The characteristics that I thought were interesting were detects 100KeV to 5MeV gamma-rays,Fast Neutrons,Charged Particles,Cosmic Rays,muons,and protons. What I plan on doing is getting lead foil and surroud it on every side except the front like Armin Bickel 8) did with his Scintillation Crystals.

Randy

A cheap option is to paint a common led with zinc sulphide. Another radiation "atractor" is sodium iodide.

[Esteban]

A cheap option is to paint a common led with zinc sulphide. Another radiation "atractor" is sodium iodide.

... sodium iodide doped with thallium

[Clondike Clad]

What is being detected... this is part of what I'm looking for?

[roberts]

Nacl+H2O=seawater....:razz:
I am genius of chemistry!!!!:razz:
Intend to paint LM393 with red paprika to turn it into OP37 - works much better and can detect ultra-sensual-psedo-brainstorming-ionic-IR particles produced from long time burried gold ring in deep savanah, usually detectable at 800 feet!:lol::lol::lol:

[Clondike Clad]

What about detecting a coin at 30 meters

[J_Player]

What about detecting a coin at 30 meters.

[Qiaozhi]

.
Here's a more compact version -> http://www.drinkstuff.com/products/product.asp?ID=4300

[Clondike Clad]

I now know all this time I could detect coins for miles.
I walk miles with a metal detctor and find coins.
My LRL is the XLPRO and me walking

[Esteban]

What is being detected... this is part of what I'm looking for?

You can continue looking. Maybe has some luck!

[Clondike Clad]

So you are not going to help anyone now the question WHY ARE YOU HERE.

[Esteban]

.

Of course, I understand, this kind if the only you can post!

[Clondike Clad]

Ok we had our fun now let us get back to this LRL stuff.

[Esteban]

So you are not going to help anyone now the question WHY ARE YOU HERE.

:shrug: ... But this thread is "Post photo of your LRL project?". I'm here for to post photos of LRL project.

I think that nobody helps another kind of pics nothing to do with the original intention: Post photo of your LRL project.

Regards

Esteban

[J_Player]

Originally posted by J_Player
.
Originally posted Esteban
by Of course, I understand, this kind if the only you can post!I can post twice as much: (.)+(.) :razz:

Best wishes, J_P

[Clondike Clad]

Let us get back to this LRL stuff we had our fun now it is time to get to work and make a working LRL

[Morgan]

J_Player


Of course, you can receive 500 Khz with a small ferrite RF trafo!!! If not, Roberts isn't the supossed radio-designer!!!:lol:
Hello Esteban

I´m building the pistoldetektor,and what you think about the PCB 5(with the ferrite) its usefull or useless ?...
Some people here tell me this circuit do nothing.
I already made the 6 PCB. I didn´t find Tantalum capacitors 22 mF and no buzzer,but very soon i get all to finish this device ,i hope.

best regards

[Morgan]

Is your problem if you can't. Not mine. Your "logic" doesn't work here... since phenomenom has not explained by nobody, but there is waiting for you...
When i use the Alonso Pistoldetektor near old houses and farms i find many coins and objects(also some jewlry from liberal & absolutist wars). So,i find this device very usefull,but i note that if rainy days or the device is not in the limit of sensitivity(critical adjustment) i find near nothing...After locate and pinpoint targets device needs retuning very often.
I made many experiments with this device and stay some targets to dig because some of them i know for sure its aluminium or bronze junk,so i use this spots to make experiments with other devices,Mineoros ans other normal MD´s are useless to find this targets at the distance of 4m and 8m,but with PD i get them!!!
Like Esteban say,there is a phenomena with non ferrous metals buried long time ago. I can say it takes only 10 years for a silver coin create enough "energy field" to be located 4 or 5 meters distance with this device,and if its aluminium this energy field grow more faster.
I can say this Alonso Pistoldetektor is not perfect but its very usefull device and maybe some people here can improve it to become better.

Best regards

[Geo]

...After locate and pinpoint targets device needs retuning very often.

Best regards

Hi Morgan:)
I have the same problem and until now my pistol is unable:( to locate a long time buried object from medium or long distance.

[J_Player]

I can say this Alonso Pistoldetektor is not perfect but its very usefull device and maybe some people here can improve it to become better.People can not improve it unless they first have the pistol same as original to work with same performance. Then maybe they can improve from the design for better performance.

Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

I´m building the pistoldetektor,and what you think about the PCB 5(with the ferrite) its usefull or useless ?...


Much more useful than you think!!:lol:
Pistol detector at the time it was being built.
Original Sonalarme buzzer and vintage tantalum capacitors.

[hung]

I made many experiments with this device and stay some targets to dig because some of them i know for sure its aluminium or bronze junk,so i use this spots to make experiments with other devices,Mineoros ans other normal MD´s are useless to find this targets at the distance of 4m and 8m,but with PD i get them!!!
Best regards

You are restless aren't you?

One of my team members has a couple of 3 gram gold sample buried in his backyard. With his FG80 he can pick it all the time.
I repeat. I just can't imagine how you can't do the same with your device.
Maybe you have a huge bad luck and needs to be 'rezado por um padre'? Certo Morgan?:lol:

[Morgan]

Hi Morgan:)
I have the same problem and until now my pistol is unable:( to locate a long time buried object from medium or long distance.
Hello GEO

Its normal,this happens because maybe i made some mistakes when copy the circuits from the original device or maybe the original antenna as some secret coil arrangement...Let me finish my device and test it.
Try to calibrate your device until ear some slow beeps and then turn antenna into sun diretion,the device should stop beeping and become extremly sensitive. When its like this you can detect in air test a little gold ring or 10 cent coin at 50 cm. If not regulate in limit you can detect the coin only 20 or 30 cm in air test.
If you device dont have this performance its because something is wrong...
I hope to have more lucky with my PD,i´m doing all 6 PCB independent ,all the same as Alonso device.Of course it will be the probleme with the antenna.:help:
regards

[Morgan]

You are restless aren't you?

One of my team members has a couple of 3 gram gold sample buried in his backyard. With his FG80 he can pick it all the time.
I repeat. I just can't imagine how you can't do the same with your device.
Maybe you have a huge bad luck and needs to be 'rezado por um padre'? Certo Morgan?:lol:
Hello

I test my mineoros,and my friends mineoro FG80 in many test fields where real GOLD its buried lond time ago and its useles and randomic devices! Last time i was near to break my DC2008 against a wall!!! If works its only in Brazil,or only in Garopaba near the factory.Sorry to desapoint you.
I think Alonso should concentrate only in Pistoldetektor devices and forget the DC,FG series,complete useless devices and the expensive broken dream of many TH who fall in MINEORO factory...

[Fred]

Here is a picture of me finding a gold cache.
The schematic of the secret detector is from Olonza,but i know it all.
I got the idea when diving to catch lobsters.They normally like to live close to wrecked ships, where there is burried metal.So i thought they could detect it.They told me they could see the lead i had on my back in total darkness too.
:p
Fred.

[marisviens]

X-field strength meter
http://www.ltn.lv/~slanarsx/xf/

[michael]

Hi all,
Morgan, I wish you have not made mistake in reflection the original circuits otherwise all other things reach to nowhere.
Really thanks to you for your efforts in trying this effort.
Really thanks to others; Max, Fred and Qiaozhi for consequent leadings in making the schematic.
Especial thanks to Max for full schematic.
Especial thanks to Geo for some of his leadings at least to me for wire wraping manner.
Morgan you really didn't need to make 6 separate PCBs, thanks to Max; with Max schematic blessing you can assemble all in one single board like I did. unfortunately electronic is not my profession at all and I'm high and dry in this, but I love treasure seeking and detection.
now the most problem for me is wire wrapping and how to make it. I'm entering in second phase.
in god providence and friends helps here I go ahead.
any help and leading here will be seriously appreciated. after that I will put all my obtained in your access.

[Qiaozhi]

X-field strength meter
http://www.ltn.lv/~slanarsx/xf/
Some other interesting stuff can also be found here:
http://www.metaldetector.lv/

[putrechigi]

Some other interesting stuff can also be found here:
http://www.metaldetector.lv/

are from? the web site is not in englisc and i don't know what e saids you can traslate?;)

[Qiaozhi]

are from? the web site is not in englisc and i don't know what e saids you can traslate?;)
No idea. :shrug:
Although this domain originates in Latvia.
I just liked the photos. Particularly these ones: http://www.metaldetector.lv/fini.html
:D

[Geo]

Hi all,
Morgan, I wish you have not made mistake in reflection the original circuits otherwise all other things reach to nowhere.
Really thanks to you for your efforts in trying this effort.
Really thanks to others; Max, Fred and Qiaozhi for consequent leadings in making the schematic.
Especial thanks to Max for full schematic.
Especial thanks to Geo for some of his leadings at least to me for wire wraping manner.
Morgan you really didn't need to make 6 separate PCBs, thanks to Max; with Max schematic blessing you can assemble all in one single board like I did. unfortunately electronic is not my profession at all and I'm high and dry in this, but I love treasure seeking and detection.
now the most problem for me is wire wrapping and how to make it. I'm entering in second phase.
in god providence and friends helps here I go ahead.
any help and leading here will be seriously appreciated. after that I will put all my obtained in your access.

Good luck Michael:)

[Morgan]

Hi all,
Morgan, I wish you have not made mistake in reflection the original circuits otherwise all other things reach to nowhere.
Really thanks to you for your efforts in trying this effort.
Really thanks to others; Max, Fred and Qiaozhi for consequent leadings in making the schematic.
Especial thanks to Max for full schematic.
Especial thanks to Geo for some of his leadings at least to me for wire wraping manner.
Morgan you really didn't need to make 6 separate PCBs, thanks to Max; with Max schematic blessing you can assemble all in one single board like I did. unfortunately electronic is not my profession at all and I'm high and dry in this, but I love treasure seeking and detection.
now the most problem for me is wire wrapping and how to make it. I'm entering in second phase.
in god providence and friends helps here I go ahead.
any help and leading here will be seriously appreciated. after that I will put all my obtained in your access.
Hello

I apreciate all your work in this PCB,and i can say that its maybe better than my 1,2,3,4,5,6 PCB´s.
Good luck with ferrite and antenna. I´m sure your new device will put your Mineoro FG80 in hollydays for long time !!!

Kind regards

[Morgan]

Much more useful than you think!!:lol:
Pistol detector at the time it was being built.
Original Sonalarme buzzer and vintage tantalum capacitors.
Hello Hung

I see you already made one Pistoldetektor for you.Its very nice,but tell me why you need it if you have the fantastic and powerfull Mineoro FG80,why you need to find single gold coin at 8 meters distance with PD if you can find it with FG80 at 70meters distance ?...
:lol::lol::lol:

Regards

[aft_72005]

x field strength meter???

Hi marisviens
What is it?
Are you know more about it?
Regards.

[hung]

Hello Hung

I see you already made one Pistoldetektor for you.Its very nice,but tell me why you need it if you have the fantastic and powerfull Mineoro FG80,why you need to find single gold coin at 8 meters distance with PD if you can find it with FG80 at 70meters distance ?...
:lol::lol::lol:

Regards

Hi Morgan,

You're right.
I just decided to replicate it to try to enhance it. I said in the past that as I'm deeply involved in the finishing on my own LRL system, I would investigate the PDC later. But the device you presented has the advantage of being able to be copied from the beginning thanks to the great job you did in showing the details. Unlike the PDC which has lots of circuits filled with resin. And I don't want in any way to run the risk of ruin it.
Besides, the pistol detector will be a good project to try our discoveries and developments we reached with our LRL system. But first the pistol has to be replicated with the highest fidelity possible.

PS. Recheck your switch connections as the way it is shown may lead to errors in replicating them.

Regards.

[Morgan]

Hi Morgan,

You're right.
I just decided to replicate it to try to enhance it. I said in the past that as I'm deeply involved in the finishing on my own LRL system, I would investigate the PDC later. But the device you presented has the advantage of being able to be copied from the beginning thanks to the great job you did in showing the details. Unlike the PDC which has lots of circuits filled with resin. And I don't want in any way to run the risk of ruin it.
Besides, the pistol detector will be a good project to try our discoveries and developments we reached with our LRL system. But first the pistol has to be replicated with the highest fidelity possible.

PS. Recheck your switch connections as the way it is shown may lead to errors in replicating them.

Regards.
Hello

Yes,this time you are rigth,i made some mistake with wires and switch connections,my spanish friend say the PD not work if he disconect the 3 wires from Ferrite,so you are absolutly correct,WE NEED PCB 5 AND FERRITE !!!
If you have good knolenge with electronics can you tell me if its possible to put 22mF electrolitic capacitors,because i can´t find Tantalum capacitors.
your Pistoldetektor is already working? If yes,tell me the performance.
Unfortunly GEO device its working maybe 10 %...And i think my device will have serious problems to put to work,i think i made big mistakes with capacitor values.If your PD works better can you help us here?!
Good luck with your project!

Regards

[Morgan]

Hi all,
Morgan, I wish you have not made mistake in reflection the original circuits otherwise all other things reach to nowhere.
Really thanks to you for your efforts in trying this effort.
Really thanks to others; Max, Fred and Qiaozhi for consequent leadings in making the schematic.
Especial thanks to Max for full schematic.
Especial thanks to Geo for some of his leadings at least to me for wire wraping manner.
Morgan you really didn't need to make 6 separate PCBs, thanks to Max; with Max schematic blessing you can assemble all in one single board like I did. unfortunately electronic is not my profession at all and I'm high and dry in this, but I love treasure seeking and detection.
now the most problem for me is wire wrapping and how to make it. I'm entering in second phase.
in god providence and friends helps here I go ahead.
any help and leading here will be seriously appreciated. after that I will put all my obtained in your access.
Hello Michael,Max,GEO,Fred

unfortunly i made some mistake when copy switch connections from original Alonso LRL !
I was advertise that we need FERRITE & PCB 5 working to get good results with Pistoldetektor!
SORRY i´m not good enough in elektronika...
I will try to solve the problem when meet again with my friend the owner of this device...

Regards

[michael]

Hi.
Morgan if it's the case, what a bad.
please try to rewise it if you are serious to have a copy of that and to
share worthy experiences all to each other. Try your best to catch the device again.
Thanksgivings

[hung]

If you have good knolenge with electronics can you tell me if its possible to put 22mF electrolitic capacitors,because i can´t find Tantalum capacitors.
Regards

Maybe.
But I don't know if in this particular case the electrolytics will hold as stable as the tantalums. He employed 25V caps (yellow). I used 35V (brown) for more 'room'.
I'm surprised you're having a hard time to find them in Europe.

[Fred]

Maybe.
But I don't know if in this particular case the electrolytics will hold as stable as the tantalums. He employed 25V caps (yellow). I used 35V (brown) for more 'room'.
I'm surprised you're having a hard time to find them in Europe.
For a stabilised 9V power supply there is more room than you need :)
Tantalum have the bad habit to go in short and blew everything there is above them, i hate them...
Fred.

[Morgan]

Hi.
Morgan if it's the case, what a bad.
please try to rewise it if you are serious to have a copy of that and to
share worthy experiences all to each other. Try your best to catch the device again.
Thanksgivings
Hello
Yes,i will do this as soon as possible.
Until now the best result is from Andreas PD, air test Euro coin 25 cm and metalic dor 4,80 m...Anyway is not using PCB 5 & Ferrite,device its only at 50 % of the original,but much better results than GEO and Fred.
Good luck!

Regards

[Max]

Hello Michael,Max,GEO,Fred

unfortunly i made some mistake when copy switch connections from original Alonso LRL !
I was advertise that we need FERRITE & PCB 5 working to get good results with Pistoldetektor!
SORRY i´m not good enough in elektronika...
I will try to solve the problem when meet again with my friend the owner of this device...

Regards

Hi,
I think someone told you some bad information about ferrite thing: it is off when other stuff is on... so you'll never use it when use the circuit2 stuff etc.

Maybe is some joke... ;)

Don't care of who told you that ferrite is essential for success with PD cause it's , from schematic we have , impossible.

Just wire up things to have all powered and just forget about ferrite circuit.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hello
Yes,i will do this as soon as possible.
Until now the best result is from Andreas PD, air test Euro coin 25 cm and metalic dor 4,80 m...Anyway is not using PCB 5 & Ferrite,device its only at 50 % of the original,but much better results than GEO and Fred.
Good luck!

Regards

Hi,
yes true... Andreas made great work I think... but remember: the original case for coils was 4'' so 10cm only and less in the inner part , right ?

Then original coils of PD must be under 10cm size and not 12cm like in Andreas model.

It's easy detecting 1eur at 25cm with a PI detector and a 12cm diameter coil for example... but not so easy getting the same results with a smaller coil.

That means original coils are somehow "special" if you can get, with smaller thing, e.g. 10eur-cent at 50cm ! ENORMOUS DISTANCE FOR SUCH SMALL THING AND COILS!:shocked:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Hi,
I think someone told you some bad information about ferrite thing: it is off when other stuff is on... so you'll never use it when use the circuit2 stuff etc.

Maybe is some joke... ;)

Don't care of who told you that ferrite is essential for success with PD cause it's , from schematic we have , impossible.

Just wire up things to have all powered and just forget about ferrite circuit.

Kind regards,
Max

In the first model, for long range detection works the two in one position of the switch, but in other position you disconnect ferrite and use as normal MD for to search the item in the revolved sand.

[Max]

In the first model, for long range detection works the two in one position of the switch, but in other position you disconnect ferrite and use as normal MD for to search the item in the revolved sand.

Hi,
yes... but if schematic is correct, the Morgan's PD is different and he gets ferrite circuit off when other stuff is on. So ferrite does nothing... at least... seems that way on Morgan's PD with that schematic. :rolleyes:

In other kinds I don't know... and maybe the two things work at same time... possible, but I don't know which kind of increased value can give the ferrite receiver there.

Kind regards,
Max

[hung]

Hi,
yes... but if schematic is correct, the Morgan's PD is different and he gets ferrite circuit off when other stuff is on. So ferrite does nothing... at least... seems that way on Morgan's PD with that schematic. :rolleyes:

In other kinds I don't know... and maybe the two things work at same time... possible, but I don't know which kind of increased value can give the ferrite receiver there.

Kind regards,
Max
Esteban is correct.
Morgan's PD is no different. The switch wirings Morgan provided can lead to errors in which one might think it does nothing. PCB5 must be used in conjunction with PCB2 otherwise it won't work properly.
Don't be fooled. I wasn't.

[Max]

Esteban is correct.
Morgan's PD is no different. The switch wirings Morgan provided can lead to errors in which one might think it does nothing. PCB5 must be used in conjunction with PCB2 otherwise it won't work properly.
Don't be fooled. I wasn't.

Hi Hung,
so you say that the switch wiring is wrong ?
Can you please post correction here ?

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

In the first model, for long range detection works the two in one position of the switch, but in other position you disconnect ferrite and use as normal MD for to search the item in the revolved sand.

Hi,
so it's like detectoman's explaination: one mode for normal search and the other for pinpointing only ?

If is that way... all make sense about presence of the ferrite thing.

Problem is that Morgan reported that device works just at one position of switch... then seems does nothing at the other 2.

I cannot explain this behaviour: I will expect e.g. long range detection in one position and just short detection in pinpointing mode... but seems is not that way.

Morgan do you confirm my thoughts ?

Kind regards,
Max

[Morgan]

In the first model, for long range detection works the two in one position of the switch, but in other position you disconnect ferrite and use as normal MD for to search the item in the revolved sand.
Yes,maybe there is some error when i copy the schematic...

[Morgan]

Hi,
so it's like detectoman's explaination: one mode for normal search and the other for pinpointing only ?

If is that way... all make sense about presence of the ferrite thing.

Problem is that Morgan reported that device works just at one position of switch... then seems does nothing at the other 2.

I cannot explain this behaviour: I will expect e.g. long range detection in one position and just short detection in pinpointing mode... but seems is not that way.

Morgan do you confirm my thoughts ?

Kind regards,
Max
Hello

There is the possibility of some error when i copy this device.
I will correct as soon as possible!!!

Regards

[Fred]

Hi Morgan,

The sensitive part here is the wiring from the switch.As long as it is right , the diagram must be OK.
It is important to see if there is solder bridge between left and right rows of contacts in the switch.

Regards,
Fred.

[Geo]

Hi Fred.
I don't see any bridge
Regards:)

[Fred]

Hi Fred.
I don't see any bridge
Regards:)
I cannot be sure for the left contacts on the picture.The upper are soldered, i dont know about the lower one.
regards,
Fred.

[J_Player]

There is the possibility of some error when i copy this device.
I will correct as soon as possible!!!There is no error in copying the switch for the pistol detector. Several people have built circuit boards for this detector that work ok from the schematic Max made that shows the same switch arrangement.

The problem came because Morgan made separate circuit boards instead of a single board that carries the Vcc and ground to all the places on his different boards. If you build the circuit from Max schematic with 6 separate boards, then the ground and Vcc are carried by jumpers from one board to the next. By removing ferrite board-5, you also remove the ground jumper that connects the ground to board-3 and then jumps to board 2. For Morgan, this ground connection can be replaced by adding a simple jumper from the power boiard-1 ground to a ground trace on board-2. If this jumper is added, then his circuit should work fine the same as the others who built the circuit on a single board from Max's plans.

No improvement in the omega circuit is achieved by adding the ferrite circuit. The ferrite circuit works independently of the omega and is never powered to the on state when the omega is running in the Morgan version of the pistol detector.

The only part of the ferrite circuit that will have some influence on the omega circuit of Morgan's pistol detector is the wire from the green led that connects to the 390k with parallel 100nf +42k to ground. These 3 components could be added to reproduce the slight reduction in sensitivity found in the original Morgan omega circuit, But several people have built the omega circuit without these parts from the ferrite board and are not having problems with the operation of the omega board. There is no error in the switch.

Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

The ferrite circuit works independently of the omega and is never powered to the on state when the omega is running in the Morgan version of the pistol detector.


Wrong.

[hung]

...

[J_Player]

Wrong.The picture you posted does not show a mistake. It shows the switch wired as Morgan says it is wired. Everyone who has built a circuit from the switch information Morgan provided has produced a working circuit board except Morgan, who made the omega circuit on separate boards.

If there is any mistake in what we are seeing in the photo, you have not shown us where it is. If you are able to post a switch diagram showing the correct switch wiring and contacts for the different switch positions, then we will be able to see some mistake that is not shown in the photo you posted.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Wrong.

You are right, how could i have been so blind!
Thank you for enlighting me !
:razz: :razz:
Fred

[J_Player]

Is hung trying to stop Morgan from putting power to his pistol detector project?

Why is hung spreading false information about an error in the switch wiring? To keep us from building the circuit? We all know the ferrite circuit is not active when the omega circuit is turned on. And all who have built the circuit find the omega board powers up fine without any ferrite circuit. But hung tries stop Morgan from connecting the needed jumper wire so his boards will work like the others who built the circuit. Why is this? To try to make us believe the omega coils won't work without using the ferrite?

Maybe Fred is right...
Maybe hung invented a special diode disguised as a switch for Alonso to use when he built the pistol detector.
But wait... It can't be a simple diode. There must be more to this... Just look at the secret circuits hung showed meter readings on from the Ranger Tell. After failing to show the Ranger Tell had any transmitting or receiving circuits hidden inside, he changed his story to radionics being the principle of operation.

Do you suppose there is a small gold-detecting circuit module hidden inside the pistol detector switch that will not work unless the disconnected ferrite board is attached by a wire? Does the turned-off ferrite board cause the switch to emit gold target signals that are shot in a signal line to the omega circuit board? Now this sounds like a real accomplishment. It fooled all of us including Morgan into thinking we are looking at a simple slide switch!

Note for Morgan: Make X-ray of the switch next time you borrow the pistol detector so we can see the hidden secret parts inside.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi:)
The article begins to be joke.
Unfairly we accused them.
Look at, they began to say us where are the errors in the drawing.
For the head however they do not say nothing.
Why??? We said..... they do not want.
I will say it more simply.
Right their, other as they do not insist with cheap pretexts.
Regards:)

[hung]

I posted the picture with the indication because I think anyone with a minimum 'atentive eye' would understand what I mean. This is a 2P3T switch with definite internal wirings. There are two elements in Morgan's descriptions which attest the mistakes.

But the atittutdes of notorious 'characters' here never change. And this makes harder each time for me, feeling like contributing without the idiotic jokes the same circus people insist to pose in their neverending show.

So if you want any help from me, stop being a child and act like an adult now.
If you don't need it and think I'm wrong, alright.
Move on and good luck.

[Fred]

This is a 2P3T switch with definite internal wirings.
Yes, very common switches, lots of wires inside.And a few diodes.

There are two elements in Morgan's descriptions which attest the mistakes..
Yes, he says "in postion 3 the PD does nothing".Obvious.
But the atittutdes of notorious 'characters' here never change..
I knew sometime someone would call me "notorious character" :cool: Thank you Hung.you´re my man, gimme a kiss!

And this makes harder each time for me,.....
It must be dificult to be a hero.I hope your telents will be recognised some day.:eek:
So if you want any help from me, stop being a child and act like an adult now...
We have never got any help from you.Even here your are just saying that there is a secret somewhere but you dont say what it is.As usual.
So no thanks, no need for it.
But i am sure you will come back anyway with your technical nonsense when you fell the need to mislead us, as usual.

"Move on and good luck" too.


Fred.

[michael]

Hi,
Hung, what do you mean of mistake? which part exactly has connection on your opinion?
do you mean some horns of switch has soldered each other?

[Morgan]

Hi,
Hung, what do you mean of mistake? which part exactly has connection on your opinion?
do you mean some horns of switch has soldered each other?
Until now i finish the 6 PCB,and very soon the Antenna...4333

[Geo]

I posted the picture with the indication because I think anyone with a minimum 'atentive eye' would understand what I mean. This is a 2P3T switch with definite internal wirings. There are two elements in Morgan's descriptions which attest the mistakes.

But the atittutdes of notorious 'characters' here never change. And this makes harder each time for me, feeling like contributing without the idiotic jokes the same circus people insist to pose in their neverending show.

So if you want any help from me, stop being a child and act like an adult now.
If you don't need it and think I'm wrong, alright.
Move on and good luck.

Hi Hung....
Where are you!!!!
I took all your help from your emails, so i don't need other help.... Thanks

So now You "Move on and good luck". :lol::lol::lol:

[chariot]

Hi Everybody,
Good day to you all, does anybody here already tried to use this one?
http://knouzm.net/content/view/305/98/lang,en/

http://knouzm.net/content/view/305/98/lang,en/

or knows how to build?

Hoping for your kind reply. thanks!

[J_Player]

Hi,
Hung, what do you mean of mistake? which part exactly has connection on your opinion?
do you mean some horns of switch has soldered each other?Hi Michael,
Hung says mistake because he sees some extra terminals on the switch that are not used. He says these unused terminals are reason for everybody making a mistake to believe the ferrite is disconnected when the omega is turned on.

But don't worry. All the electrical engineers and other people who know how to wire a switch know there is no mistake. You can see for yourself when you connect the switch as shown in Max schematic that omega will work fine with no ferrite circuit attached. hung also knows there is no mistake in the switch. If he really knew a mistake then he could show a diagram of the wrong wiring and the needed change for how to make correct wiring. But he can't show which switch contacts are wrong because there is no mistake.

The ferrite and the omega are two separate detectors that can work without each other. Or they can be put into the same pistol like we see in the Morgan pistol. The switch in the Morgan pistol is wired so it will turn off the ferrite when the omega is turned on. And it will turn off the omega when the ferrite is turned on. This will allow Morgan to use only the omega, or only the ferrite, but not both at the same time. By using this switch, a person can carry two separate detectors inside one pistol, but use only one at a time. Much better than carrying two separate pistols.

There were other pistol detectors made by Alonso and Esteban that were wired to put power to both the ferrite detector and other detector at the same time. But the Morgan pistol detector is not one of those.

Good luck with your pistol detector project, and don't worry about switch.
J_P

[hung]

This is what Morgan said:
Yes,this time you are rigth,i made some mistake with wires and switch connections,my spanish friend say the PD not work if he disconect the 3 wires from Ferrite,so you are absolutly correct,WE NEED PCB 5 AND FERRITE !!!

CAN YOU READ?

This is what the owner of the device told him.

Anyway, I will tell what I think the mistakes are for Michael, Morgan, etc. in PM if they think it's relevant. If not, that's ok and I wish luck to them. I already have my thing together.
I think people like you, Fred and others who along the line provided lots of mistakes in schematics and misleadings and also who has not soldered a miserable component yet don't need to know.
So if they wish this info they can PM me.

You and the others won't certaily bother.

Got it?:razz:

[Fred]

I think people like you, Fred and others who along the line provided lots of mistakes in schematics and misleadings and also who has not soldered a miserable component yet don't need to know.

At least WE have provided something:The schematics that you used to build (?) your PD :lol:

Fred.

[michael]

Hi all.
Thank you J-Player for your attentions man. encouraging.
Hung, man, if you have some notes or points please put here to be shared with all it will accelerate promotions when be in common consult it's better for all of us.
we are all here to give hand each other, please don't deprive all, if know one thing. Thanks in advance.

one question from Morgan;
had you tested your ohm-meter about offset and subtract the number?
e.g. for round coil(Rx) you said RES for red-white 4.5 ohm, red-shield 2.5 ohm and white-shield also 2.5 ohm, had you considered it? I.e. with consideration the offset (e.g. 0.9) real numbers become 3.6, 1.6 and 1.6 ? and as well for other read digits in all wirings?
BTW; Morgan, If you need I will Send for you my single hand-drawn PCB based on Max single full schematic.
you need non of these wires. those will increase the risk of mistakes. my PCB albeit is not much neat but is correct. I checked and rechecked it frequently and all connections are right.

[Morgan]

Hi all.
Thank you J-Player for your attentions man. encouraging.
Hung, man, if you have some notes or points please put here to be shared with all it will accelerate promotions when be in common consult it's better for all of us.
we are all here to give hand each other, please don't deprive all, if know one thing. Thanks in advance.

one question from Morgan;
had you tested your ohm-meter about offset and subtract the number?
e.g. for round coil(Rx) you said RES for red-white 4.5 ohm, red-shield 2.5 ohm and white-shield also 2.5 ohm, had you considered it? I.e. with consideration the offset (e.g. 0.9) real numbers become 3.6, 1.6 and 1.6 ? and as well for other read digits in all wirings?
BTW; Morgan, If you need I will Send for you my single hand-drawn PCB based on Max single full schematic.
you need non of these wires. those will increase the risk of mistakes. my PCB albeit is not much neat but is correct. I checked and rechecked it frequently and all connections are right.
This one made in USA !!!
Dont forget,if you need the best car in the world buy the EDSEL !!!4337

[Morgan]

About the OMEGA coil i check twice and all ok,its low resistenc,so not a lot of wiring.
About the switch,its a mistery.
When i finish my device i will made tests in buried gold medal (20 years underground).
We will see if we made the clone or not...

Regards

[hung]

At least WE have provided something:The schematics that you used to build (?) your PD :lol:

Fred.

I did not follow the schematic.:razz:

[Fred]

I did not follow the schematic.:razz:
:lol::lol::lol: :barf:

[J_Player]

About the OMEGA coil i check twice and all ok,its low resistenc,so not a lot of wiring.
About the switch,its a mistery.
When i finish my device i will made tests in buried gold medal (20 years underground).
We will see if we made the clone or not...Hi Morgan,
There is no mystery to the rest of us about the switch. We see there is no error because the pistol detectors that have been built are working. You will also see your pistol detector working if you make a ground connection from the board-1 to board-2 and board-3. These ground connections were lost on your circuits because they were carried from board-5 which you removed.

We all know the 6-board pistol project will stop working when you remove the ferrite wires. The reason is not because the ferrite is needed, and it is not because you made a mistake with the switch connection. The reason is because the ground connection on the board-2 and board-3 are connected to the ground on board-5. When you remove board-5 ferrite, then you must replace the ground connection you are removing with a jumper wire to send the ground from board-1 to the ground on boards-2 and board-3 ground like the others who built working circuits without the ferrite.

You can see your pistol detector project working today if you connect a ground wire from board-2 and board-3 to the ground on board-1. No waiting for ferrite necessary, no mystery for the switch.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

Yes,but something is wrong because until now nobody find long time ago buried metals,and i find a lot with the original...

[J_Player]

Yes,but something is wrong because until now nobody find long time ago buried metals,and i find a lot with the original...Hi Morgan,
Yes you say you found long time ago buried metals with the original, and it is true nobody found long time ago buried metals with clone pistol. But the reason for treasure not found with clone pistol is because coil is not the same as original, and does not operate the same.

In the original, you did not make a mistake with the switch. When you found long time ago buried metals with the original, only the omega had power, not the ferrite. You can test when you have your clone pistol completed to see if there is power +9v on the ferrite when you are looking for treasure using the omega. You will see there is no power on the ferrite at the same time when you have power for the omega.

But this is not a problem if you are building your clone with both ferrite and omega. If you have both, then you will have the same components as the original has, and not necessary to make jumper connections for ground. :)

Good luck with your pistol detector project,
J_P

[roberts]

This one made in USA !!!
Dont forget,if you need the best car in the world buy the EDSEL !!!4337


Yes Morgan, those frauds,liars and thieves from mINEORO finally realized that their bussiness is busted. Thanks to real truth,thanks to forums like this one and thanks to "loudmouths" like myself. People are sending me hundreds of emails with regards and thanks, best wishes and support. I dont need that, i only need truth here.
So they took same old bogus garbage, painted it in different colours,put different labels and ....here we go!!! Brand new product, almighty - made in USA !!! :lol::lol::lol:
And where???? In Dubai...!:lol:
Money,money,money...people in Dubai are richest on this world.It is a joke for ordinary man from Dubai to waste $3000-$4000 for piece of junk. No problem.
Ordinary Dubai smoker, smokes $1000 of cigars per day...big deal!
But...people of Dubai really do not need any detector in this world...:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
So mINEORO...again imbecille decision! Again bust!:lol::lol::lol:

[Morgan]

Yes Morgan, those frauds,liars and thieves from mINEORO finally realized that their bussiness is busted. Thanks to real truth,thanks to forums like this one and thanks to "loudmouths" like myself. People are sending me hundreds of emails with regards and thanks, best wishes and support. I dont need that, i only need truth here.
So they took same old bogus garbage, painted it in different colours,put different labels and ....here we go!!! Brand new product, almighty - made in USA !!! :lol::lol::lol:
And where???? In Dubai...!:lol:
Money,money,money...people in Dubai are richest on this world.It is a joke for ordinary man from Dubai to waste $3000-$4000 for piece of junk. No problem.
Ordinary Dubai smoker, smokes $1000 of cigars per day...big deal!
But...people of Dubai really do not need any detector in this world...:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
So mINEORO...again imbecille decision! Again bust!:lol::lol::lol:
Yes,Roberts,you are doing great work here against LRL FRAUDs. Unfortunely i dont pay atention to your words before go to Brazil and buy this Mineoro supr expensive CRAP !!!
You should continue your crusade !!!

Regards

[Esteban]

Yes,Roberts,you are doing great work here against LRL FRAUDs. Unfortunely i dont pay atention to your words before go to Brazil and buy this Mineoro supr expensive CRAP !!!
You should continue your crusade !!!

Regards

In any case, don't pay much attention in this guy! But if you insist, very soon you will start in his inconditional follower.

Regards

[roberts]

Hhah,hahahahahahah!!!:lol::lol::lol:


WHEN HE SAID: "Unfortunely i dont pay atention to your words before go to Brazil and buy this Mineoro supr expensive CRAP !!!"

Actually he ment:" Unfortunatelly i DIDNT PAYED attetnion to your words before WENT to Brasil and BOUGHT this Mineoro supr expensive CRAP !!!"

SO HE ALREADY BOUGHT THAT CRAP AND WASTED MONEY, BUT HE REALIZED THAT AFTER. THAT WAS THE POINT. SO I WAS RIGHT ANYWAY.

AND OF COURSE, HE BETTER BELEIVED ME, SAME AS MICHAEL! REMEMBER OUR FELLOW MICHAEL?? HE ALSO DIDNT PAYED ATTENTION ON MY CLAIMS AND HE ALSO WASTED HUGE MONEY.

SO ESTEBAN, I HAVE AT LEAST 2 IMPORTANT WITNESSES HERE.
AND YOU ARE SUGGESTING THEM NOT TO LISTEN ME, NOT TO PAY ATTENTION ON ME AGAIN???

WHAT SHOULD THEY DO THAN? TO PAY ATTENTION ON YOU?????:nono:
AGAIN TO WASTE MONEY ON STUPID FRAUDS????

SO FAR EVERYBODY KNOW THAT YOU ESTEBAN LEFT HERE AS HUNG'S ADVOCATE, THE LAST ONE. HUNG FOOLED MICHAEL TO WASTE A LOT OF MONEY. NOW YOUR TASK IS TO FOOL MORE PEOPLE HERE, TO WASTE MORE MONEY ON FRAUDS!

THAT'S WHY I ASKED FEW TIMES "WHERE IS ADMINISTRATOR HERE? WHERE IS THAT "DEMOCRACY" SO CALLED, HERE?"

I NEVER WASTED NOBODY'S MONEY HERE. I SAVED PEOPLES MONEY.
YOU ESTEBAN...AND HUNG, YOU ARE FOOLING PEOPLE HERE TO WASTE A LOT OF MONEY HERE. SO YOU ARE F R A U D S !!!

ASK MORGAN, ASK MICHAEL, ASK FEW OTHERS...IF THEY ARE NOT TO ASHAMED TO ADMIT HOW STUPID THEY TURNED AT THE END!

ESTEBAN...IT IS DISGRACEFULL AND TOTALLY SHAMEFULL YOU TO COME HERE ANY MORE!
IF I WAS YOU, I WOULD NEVER COME HERE AGAIN.:nono:

[roberts]

In addition i will say how i see real democration;
real democration is not only to let everybody here to come and say whatever they want, real democration is also HUGE responsibillity to other members of comunity - forum in this case! To respect and be fair in claims!
We are not the same. Some people do know enough - you cant fool them easilly, but some people dont know enough - you can easilly fool them with your claims. You can missuse their ignorancy to make some profits. Real democracy WILL STOP YOU TO DO THAT! Real democracy MUST PROTECT every EQUAL member of comunity - in this case forum members!
Real democracy will stop me to verbally offends other mebers but also MUST STOP frauds to missuse freedom of speach here! I can live with this, can You???

[Dell Winders]

You guys are so funny:barf: Maybe you should copy from the electronic engineers who build LRL's for the biggest manufacturer/seller of LRL's in the world.

When a product is built by clever electronic engineers like yourselves, it has to be good to demand the big bucks, Right? :lol::lol::lol:

No "Get Rich" scam is possible from fellow electronics techs, Right? :lol::lol::lol::lol:

That's a mighty egotistical high horse you guys ride.:barf:
Check out how much smarter your comrades are. They laugh at you and pitiful jealous Carl, all the way to the bank.:razz::razz:

$20,000 for the Navigator and a pair of Dowsing Rods. WOW! That's some technology. Dell

LINK: http://treasurenow.com/html/products.html :nono:

[J_Player]

Hi Roberts,
Democracy is a system of government where all people vote to decide the rules. The Remote Sensing forum is not democracy, but a place to post your opinions. The rules for this forum cannot be changed by members voting. They have been set by the owner and ruler of the forum, Carl-NC:The term "remote sensing" is used to describe scientifically viable methods of detecting geophysical anomalies from a distance. It is also used to describe the less scientific method of "long-range locating", which is engulfed in controversy.

This forum is for the open discussion of either method. Because LRL-oriented forums can quickly degrade into personal conflicts, this forum will be strictly controlled. Rules are still simple:
You must be a registered user to post here. Guests may read.
Be polite. Name calling will get you banned quickly.
Be factual. If you make an extraordinary claim, be prepared to get challenged.In general, try not to take differences of opinions personally.

Postings considered to be inflammatory can be reported to Admin by clicking the little red triangle icon at the top of each post. Please use this only when absolutely necessary... I would like to keep this forum as open as possible, and do not care to mediate every conversation.
The responsibility for the welfare of other forum readers is carried only by the conscience of the people who make posts here. Not by the rules of the forum or actions of the administrator.

When people read the remote sensing forum, they can read all opinions and they will hear the ideas in favor of LRL and against LRL. Then after reading all, they will make their own decision whether to believe LRL or not believe, to buy LRL detectors or not buy.

Some people will spend money to buy LRLs even when they don't believe they work. For example Carl-NC has bought many for his large collection of detectors. At the same time you see he tests these LRLs and shows why he believes they don't work. We also see people who show evidence to support they work. How good is the proof? Each reader can decide this for himself. Readers can read all opinions they make their final decision.

According to the rules of this forum, posts from the supporters of LRLs will never be removed as long as they are polite, and people will be permitted to challenge any extraordinary claims made in this forum. So don't expect the administrator to remove posts that make what you consider extraordinary claims. The only posts that may be removed are posts that are considered inflammatory.

So you see this forum is not democracy, but a place to post polite, non-inflammatory opinions. The responsibility you described is not a responsibility for using democratic methods of government, but a personal responsibility from the character of the people who decide to post here.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

......
Viva la AnarquÃ*a !!! :lol::lol:

[Esteban]

......
Viva la AnarquÃ*a !!! :lol::lol:

Democracia... pero si el tipo es malo, uso palo!

Democracy... but if the guy is bad, I use the stick!

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Fred ......
Viva la AnarquÃ*a !!! :lol::lol:

Originally Posted by Esteban
Democracia... pero si el tipo es malo, uso palo!
Democracy... but if the guy is bad, I use the stick!No la democracia... es un foro. Malos y buenos pueden venir aqui con palos.
It is not a democracy... it's a forum. Bad and good can come here with sticks. :)

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

No la democracia... es un foro. Malos y buenos pueden venir aqui con palos.
It is not a democracy... it's a forum. Bad and good can come here with sticks. :)

Best wishes,
J_P

Yes, you're right. Stick is figurative. :)

Regards

Esteban

[roberts]

"So you see this forum is not democracy, but a place to post polite, non-inflammatory opinions. The responsibility you described is not a responsibility for using democratic methods of government, but a personal responsibility from the character of the people who decide to post here."

This is so true! I agree. Some people simply do not have least character here, coming and posting nonsences constantly!

Stick...stick usually have two sides. On one side stand user and on other side usually is victim!
But it is very easy, piece of cake, sides to be confused and roles to be changed!
So better do not talk about sticks!

I refered my previous post on democracy, to one much earlier administrators explanation...much earlier, in the past. You probably do not remeber or even never saw it.
Never mind. Forget it. Democracy in reallity is absolute complement to workable LRL - doesnt exist! Not possible to exist. Never existed and should never exist.

[Morgan]

In addition i will say how i see real democration;
real democration is not only to let everybody here to come and say whatever they want, real democration is also HUGE responsibillity to other members of comunity - forum in this case! To respect and be fair in claims!
We are not the same. Some people do know enough - you cant fool them easilly, but some people dont know enough - you can easilly fool them with your claims. You can missuse their ignorancy to make some profits. Real democracy WILL STOP YOU TO DO THAT! Real democracy MUST PROTECT every EQUAL member of comunity - in this case forum members!
Real democracy will stop me to verbally offends other mebers but also MUST STOP frauds to missuse freedom of speach here! I can live with this, can You???
I was convinced that Mineoro realy works when i saw this photo in Forum...
And some months ago i discover this old man was payd to make propaganda of LRL´s,not only Mineoro!!!
Here is the photo :barf:4386

4387

[Esteban]

Democracy in reallity is absolute complement to workable LRL - doesnt exist! Not possible to exist. Never existed and should never exist.[/FONT]

Oh!!! You know??? Just you??? :D

Regards

Esteban

[Esteban]

I was convinced that Mineoro realy works when i saw this photo in Forum...
And some months ago i discover this old man was payd to make propaganda of LRL´s,not only Mineoro!!!
Here is the photo :barf:4386

4387

Yes, but never the photo was used by Mineoro...

[Dell Winders]

Originally Posted by Morgan http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=67900#post67900)
I was convinced that Mineoro realy works when i saw this photo in Forum...
And some months ago i discover this old man was payd to make propaganda of LRL´s,not only Mineoro!!!
Here is the photo :barf:Attachment 4386 (http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4386)

Attachment 4387 (http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4387)


I don't know about Jim Mitchell's (Deceased) assosciation with Mineoro.

But, to set the record straight, He purchased and owned an Electroscope, but he was not paid by Electroscope, for the false testimony they published. In fact, Jim Mitchell, publicly rebuked Electroscope for falsely claiming his finds were made with an Electroscope. They were not.

It's a pitiful mentality that skeptics here are intent on perpertrating false rumors about decent Treasure Hunters. The Skeptic logic here is, always "Guilty" unless proven innocent to your own personal satisfaction. :angry: Who to H_LL do you think you are? Dell :barf:

[Morgan]

I don't know about Jim Mitchell's (Deceased) assosciation with Mineoro.

But, to set the record straight, He purchased and owned an Electroscope, but he was not paid by Electroscope, for the false testimony they published. In fact, Jim Mitchell, publicly rebuked Electroscope for falsely claiming his finds were made with an Electroscope. They were not.

It's a pitiful mentality that skeptics here are intent on perpertrating false rumors about decent Treasure Hunters. The Skeptic logic here is, always "Guilty" unless proven innocent to your own personal satisfaction. :angry: Who to H_LL do you think you are? Dell :barf:
Very funny,he found the same silver dollars with both Mineoro and Electroscope...:eek:

[roberts]

You guys are so funny:barf: Maybe you should copy from the electronic engineers who build LRL's for the biggest manufacturer/seller of LRL's in the world.

When a product is built by clever electronic engineers like yourselves, it has to be good to demand the big bucks, Right? :lol::lol::lol:

No "Get Rich" scam is possible from fellow electronics techs, Right? :lol::lol::lol::lol:

That's a mighty egotistical high horse you guys ride.:barf:
Check out how much smarter your comrades are. They laugh at you and pitiful jealous Carl, all the way to the bank.:razz::razz:

$20,000 for the Navigator and a pair of Dowsing Rods. WOW! That's some technology. Dell

LINK: http://treasurenow.com/html/products.html :nono:


If you want to say those are frauds - i agree.
If you want to say these prices are lunatic - i agree.
If you ask me; is 1200e to much for White's DFX - i can say YES, way to much!
If you ask me; is 900e to much for Minelab Sovereign - i can also say YES, way to much!
But paying 1200e for DFX man can loose only 300-400e and still keeping workable and useable METAL DETECTOR.
Paying $2000 for LRL device which including 1 signal generator=$150 and few
plastic sticks = $10-$20....well this is way to MUCH! This is robery!
Any other LRL from $10 and up is nothing but robery and fraud!
We are talking here not only about prices also about true and false devices and true and false claims came with devices.

Finally, i would say that you are absolute straightforward man, if you:

Took your omnitron to market and sell it by $160-$170 under further claim:
" Omnitron - accurate signal generator with probes " and nothing else!
But if you advertise it as mighty Long Range Metal Locator with which man can locate burried treasure up to 12 meteres...more/less... than i simply can not take you as straightforward man at all.
That was the point.

But about other things, like real prices of workable detectors....yes we can agree mostly.

[roberts]

"Who to H_LL do you think you are? Dell "

Just ordinary customers, want to get exatly what payed for.Not stupid and not naive at all.

[roberts]

Very funny,he found the same silver dollars with both Mineoro and Electroscope...:eek:

Dont know a man. But enough is to look in his face and see his character.
This is not prejudice this is fact.
Special FBI agents are especially trained to judge about characters looking at faces. Very accurate method, so many times proven on the field. 0% error!

Example:

Look Al Gore's face and you will see straightforward man,
look g. bush face and you will see totally incompetent looser.

[roberts]

I am a bit rusty in this things, but i can add some more;
this face also tells me:
-Alcohole adictive person,
-Suffered from some kidney mailfunction, probably cured in the past,
-Silent person, not talk to much,
-Possible hearth mailfunction..
-Weak character, easy to manipulate with..
...
...
...
I will repeat, i dont know a man and i dont intend to offend anybody's feelings. I am just reading face in 2 photos.
Post your face here and test my skills!

I saw Dell's face once!
If i remeber good...:
-Was pretty straightforward in youth,
-Well educated,
-Talking person but not anoying,
-Was alcohol adictive,
-Somewhen in middle ages he lost all ideals,
-Clever but not straigtforward anymore,
-Hedonist, like food,drinks and women :razz:
etc.etc...

Hah,hah,hah,hah!! Take this as joke...of course!:razz::lol::lol::lol:

[Dell Winders]

You are right, your skill as a character analysist, is a joke.

I don't drink, smoke, lie, cheat, steal, or practice infidelity.
I have very little formal education. I was extremely shy and self conscious in youth and into adult hood.

I learn from hard labor work, trial & error, and my knowledge comes from years and years of practical, hands on experience. I love honesty, animals, nature, and the life I am fortunate to have been given. I am saddened by the negative mentality of Hypocrites, liars, egotist, and less fortunate folks than myself, who suffer in this life. Dell

[Dell Winders]

Here you are Robert. Some pictures of my ugly alcholic, cigarette wrinkled mug. Dell

http://dell-winders.u.yuku.com/

[roberts]

And i love animals to, but i dont yield their jaws arround...:lol::razz:

Of course it was a joke Dell! Do i hear offended man in your post??? Nooo!

I was joking and same time giving practical example of another human "skill" same as dowsing!
LRL and dowsing are accurate same as my character reading :lol::lol::lol:
However i did hope you will understand that...but you didnt???:oh::oh::oh:

[roberts]

BTW i do envy you on few things here, for real; adventure! My kind.
Also i am happy to see that you mostly used conventional metal detectors!
Bravo! Only way so far.
Happy to see that you are not totally lost like few funny characters here...
Those are the photos i would like to see here more oftenly, instead idiotic photos posted by other person.
Photos of real adventure,nature,animals,real prospecting.
Why you didnt posted those here before?
Did you affraid you've been attacked or joked by me, cose of those?? Noooo!
I invite you to post all your photos here from your adventures!

[roberts]

Oh, another thing; can you explain those detectors on pictures?
Especially that underwater with large coil? Which type is it?
I can not recognize it....
The other one on other photo looks like old Compass or White's..? Or BH?

[roberts]

bIG dELL just left the building!?
What? Offended? Like i do care...pfffff:lol::lol::lol::lol:
70 years of life should worth something or...

[J_Player]

What? Offended? Like i do care...pfffff:lol::lol::lol::lol:
70 years of life should worth something or...Hey Robert, Those pictures Dell posted are cool. He had a greater adventure than most of us will ever have. From animal trainer to national television appearances, performances with the late Queen of Monaco and movie star... no matter how good an engineer we can be, we can't look back at adventures like that!

It don't matter how much you care about these things, cause when our time comes to meet our maker, the people we leave behind will remember us for the things we did over a lifetime. Problem with engineers, not too many people ever sees or knows what gizmo we designed inside a mobile phone or a radio. And if they did, they wouldn't care or even remember for more than a week. But who can forget the man who wrestled an alligator, and was there with his dolphins at the Grace Kelly event, and they saw on What's My Line on TV? I guess that's the price you pay for learning tech stuff.

Best wishes,
J_P

[roberts]

Dont twist my words here!?
I do envy him on his interesting life experiences, for real! I do.
I said i dont care cose he left without answering me my last questions about metal detectors on those photos! That's was my point, not his life.
70 years old man should overcame ego long time ago and answer few simple questions, since he already appeared here and posted something without any question refered directly to him. Yet, it will be polite to continue and answer very simple,friendly question.
No, he just left. He already said what he wanted and left. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Who am i to dare to ask him any question. Right?
I dont like that kind of attitude. Aint no man such "big" to earn my respect with that kind of attitude. Even a Tarzan himself!
I would be glad to post here my few photos with few female celebrities also!
But simply i cant, it will show my real identity. Only reason.

[Dell Winders]

I was joking and same time giving practical example of another human "skill" same as dowsing!
LRL and dowsing are accurate same as my character reading :lol::lol::lol:
However i did hope you will understand that...but you didnt???:oh::oh::oh:

Roberts, your "practical example" is not realistic. Don't look now it's too late, your ignorance is showing. But, since you pretend to know, how about showing me when my Dowsing was not accurate?

I seriously doubt if you even know the difference between Meta-Physics of Dowsing, and the Physics of Long Range Locators? Carl, certainly doesn't so you have no help there.

Think about it! If you learned to utilize that stagnant, unused portion of your brain, you could Dowse the rough schematics of planned new circuits and know if it would work, and where the problem would be even before you built the prototype. Now, there's a time saving advantage that's available to you with some determined practice. I'm not joking. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Use it to it's full potential.

The critter I'm cuddling in the photo is an 8 1/2 foot Asian Crocodile, not an Alligator.

The detector in the front photo is the first commercial built underwater P.I.
It was built by "Elsec" in Littlemore, England. I introduced the first to the U.S. market thru Kellyco. It opened up a whole new world for underwater Treasure recovery.

My friend Kenny White (Whites Electronics) later manufactured the first U.S. made underwater P.I. detectors to be sold commercially, then others followed.

The metal detector in the photo with the human skeletons, is a Whites. My first land detector was a Compass. My first underwater detector was a Whites BFO.

I just started the Blog, so there's a long way to go. Thanks for visiting. Dell

Another blip in the life of Dell LINK: http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,108324.0.html

[Carl-NC]

Robert, watch the language, and don't try to sneak around the language censor.

[Esteban]

Roberts, your "practical example" is not realistic. Don't look now it's too late, your ignorance is showing. But, since you pretend to know, how about showing me when my Dowsing was not accurate?

I seriously doubt if you even know the difference between Meta-Physics of Dowsing, and the Physics of Long Range Locators? Carl, certainly doesn't so you have no help there.

Think about it! If you learned to utilize that stagnant, unused portion of your brain, you could Dowse the rough schematics of planned new circuits and know if it would work, and where the problem would be even before you built the prototype. Now, there's a time saving advantage that's available to you with some determined practice. I'm not joking. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Use it to it's full potential.

The critter I'm cuddling in the photo is an 8 1/2 foot Asian Crocodile, not an Alligator.

The detector in the front photo is the first commercial built underwater P.I.
It was built by "Elsec" in Littlemore, England. I introduced the first to the U.S. market thru Kellyco. It opened up a whole new world for underwater Treasure recovery.

My friend Kenny White (Whites Electronics) later manufactured the first U.S. made underwater P.I. detectors to be sold commercially, then others followed.

The metal detector in the photo with the human skeletons, is a Whites. My first land detector was a Compass. My first underwater detector was a Whites BFO.

I just started the Blog, so there's a long way to go. Thanks for visiting. Dell

Another blip in the life of Dell LINK: http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,108324.0.html

Dell, congratulations!!! You have real experience of life. Another guy suffer causes is empty in MD experiences, also in other fields!

Regards

Esteban

[roberts]

"Oooops! I did it again..." - Britney Spears:razz:

Carl, i know...i know...it is just stronger than me...:frown:

Dell, i retreive my previous words about your ego. many thanks for detailed answers! Wish you good life.

Regards!

[Dell Winders]

Thanks Roberts! Dell

[roberts]

Yeah
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,108324.0.html (http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,108324.0.html)

This is interesting stuff! Nice photos!

Since i do consider this forum as my "home", feel disapointed and deprived cose you (Dell) didnt started that HERE but on another place! Why?:angry:
You "mixed pottery" with administrator here long time ago and now do not want to contribute here with your things but gave those to others? Why?
Ego thing...? It seems.
Administrator banned me once. It looks i am close to second one. Still this forum is my home. I will return. My ego is strong but i am not easy give up.
Why are you?
Either shake hands and come here with your stories....either...? Dont know what to say?
This forum over grooved one person. It is our now. Belongs to many people here. If you dont want to talk with Carl - than dont.
But come here with that stories and photos.
Or .... we are not friends any more...:angry:

Look from my perpsective; today we argue and spit on each other...tomorrow we can save each other lives, why not? Life is to short to spend it on ego things!
Same with you; come here and share with us. In time both of you will become friends...or at least good neighbors!

[Dell Winders]

But come here with that stories and photos.
Or .... we are not friends any more...:angry:


Sorry Roberts, this forum is about technology & Remote sensing. It is not about my life.

The prevelant subject is so called Long Range Locators. The dominant attitude of this forums administrator, and his followers has been ridicule, mockery, disrespect, and prejudice against those of us who have been engaged in the successful field use, or manufacture of such products.

I have little formal education as you and others here are priveledged to have, but that does not mean that I am intellectually inferior. I know nothing about electronics other than what a monkey is capable of learning, but that doesn't mean I have no practical knowledge of Earth Science, and physics, which some are essential to understand in order to develop a consistently functioning Remote Sensing, discriminating, long Range Locator.

I have experimeted, field tested, used, and compared practically every variation of so called Long Range Locator, metal detector and sophisticated electronic device that could be an aid in the search for buried & sunken treasure over the past 35 years. I don't have the text book learning to be smart enough to know that simple LRL's don't work, when they have worked for me, and the ones I home build for my customers, for many years.

I originally came on this forum to share my field experience, and knowledge of LRL's with the techs & engineers here which I hoped would be helpful to the open minded development of the LRL concept.

Regretably, the attitude I encountered has been one of disrespect, ridicule and mockery. It has been stated and inferred that I am a liar, con man, and scam artist, while efforts and deceptive ploys have been made by members to substansiate those claims.

I'm sorry it hasn't worked out for my participation in the theme of discussion of this forum, Remote Sensing "Technology for Treasure Hunting" but I am flattered, and honored that the intellectual folks of this forum show an interest in other events of my life. Thank You.

Maybe on my own turf, where I don't have to costantly be defending my honesty and integrity, the attitude toward LRL development will be different.

I am starting my own LRL Tech development discussions at, http://www.treasurehunters.yuku.com Tim Williams, aka LRLMAN, will moderate.

For those of you open minded enough to consider the possibilities, I welcome you to to help get the discussions going.

You already know my theme, "What has already been done, can be done" and you can do it also. Dell

[roberts]

Ok i see your points. I was first to joke here on that subject. And still i am.
But aside tech stuff and devices you used in your adventures, everything other seems very interesting to see and read. Those places, flora and fauna, and especially artefacts you met at locations - that is what i wanted to see here at first place. Most interesting would be to hear your preliminar ideas and sources, the way how you planned your missions,what literature you used to know more about locations. What provoked you to visit some place,why, where you search for evidents and datas when planing a mission etc.etc. Do you understand me? Whole process from first step to finish. History backups which pointed you at some place. Cose you know, there are so many undiscovered locations yet, on this world. What logic explorer must use when searching for unknown? How to discover new site? Etc.etc.
I think these would be most interesting parts of a story. But devices...techniques...blah! Never mind. We all are using methods and tools proved to be most suitable only for us. I do have my tools, might be suitable only for me, you have your methods...everyone has his own setup.
So i would rather not discuss about personal preferences but on logic and phylosophy needed to start planning a successfull mission.
Best way to learn these is to follow somebody's else experiences.
I used to watch Jacques Kustos adventures regularly on tv. Much of the usefull tips i learned that way. But you are here already,having simillar experiences already...so..good to be seen here.
Yes this forum is dealing mostly with technology. But excellent addition would be practical. live stories from adventurer himself.
Esteban seems to have also rich prospecting experience. But he is only posting photos of himself holding funny boxes. Without storylines,without novel, facts,literature,datas, explanations...so after a while man get very anoyed with simillar photos. I can understand his english is not perfect and he cant tell a story properly. Who cares? Just look at my english!?
But his english is good enough to be used in this matter.
Only story i can pull out of his million posts would be:
" I went outdoor with my pistol and located coin at 10 meters. The End."
Simply as that!
So if you give here an example, maybe Esteban will also start doing that more properly.
The rest of us will stop with mockery and start listening and reading in piece.
That was my idea.
Regards!

[Dell Winders]

"The mountain wouldn't come to Mohammed, so Mohammed had to go to the mountain to see it."

Roberts, It's your choice where you go to read about the topic of your interest, but again, I read the header topic of discussion here as 'Remote Sensing, Treasure Hunting Technology". That is my interest and is why I came to this forum to participate with those with that common interest. Regretably, the header is mis-leading and this forum turned out to be a dungeon of prejudice, closed minded critics, greedily waiting to lure any "Remote Sensing", LRL Treasure Hunting proponent they can attack.

My objections of such slander and dis-respect by Carl, and ego-intellectual members of this forum, prompted Carl, to set up a special forum, "Dell's Complaints" to relegate my posts to, and the threat of being Banned if I continued to object to the dis-respectful treatment of myself and fellow LRL proponnents.

Fortunatly for the existence of this forum a few LRL users don't mind arguing and have persisted. The value of their contributions to the existence of this forum is still ridiculed, and mocked here. In my opinion, that is a sad reflection on the intellect of the administrator.

So Robert, with your short minded attitude towards LRL proponnents, and Psychic Archaeology research, you have indeed chosen the appropriate forum for your home. Slander, dis-respect, ridicule, mockery and prejudice are sanctioned here. Just don't add profanity to your abuse, because that is deemed intellectually degrading.

It's a wonderful world outside this forum, so I hope you will forgive me if I don't become engrossed in replies other than occasional defense on this forum.

Thanks for viewing my comments. Dell

"WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE, CAN BE DONE" Accept it. Denial is not a river in Egypt.

[Morgan]

Here you are Robert. Some pictures of my ugly alcholic, cigarette wrinkled mug. Dell

http://dell-winders.u.yuku.com/
Nice photos,a real TH since the begining...

[roberts]

I really dont understand what is so "deep" between two of you? But i will not push this more.
I am totally unfocused to continue here due latest events in my country.
It seems that we gonna switch our conventional metal detectors to real LRL's - AK47 pretty soon.
Important part of my country has been taken away. Main enemys are not Albanians but USA politics. So....sad to admit but there is a true in those words: "once enemy - always enemy" reffered to USA, thorugh history.
Yes, indeed i am very sad cose of that. I met here much nice Americans. We could almost become friendly. Shame, we would never be.
So i guess this is for real my last appearance here. Not only my but also all other Serbian members. True Serbians.
Good bye friends. In next life maybe.
Garrett is history, AK47 is future.
:frown::frown::frown:

[Morgan]

4423Nice photos,a real TH since the begining...

[Esteban]

Finish the giratory pistol, combination of electronic and LRL rod:

A couple of 10 bronze coins buried 10 years is capable to detect 4 m distance and a round gold plated (part of a watch), buried 15 years, at 3 m.

Waiting for to probe in "real field". Why the magnet in front part? A friend (LRL rod user) told me that magnet attracts gold!

Regards

Esteban

[Morgan]

4529

45304423

[hillman]

hi morgan
nice work i can see that the body is plastic and not wood, is it not effect?
does it work?
best regards,:)
hillman

[Esteban]

Morgan

Good work! Now, is time for to dig the treasures!

[Morgan]

hi morgan
nice work i can see that the body is plastic and not wood, is it not effect?
does it work?
best regards,:)
hillman
Hello
It works just 20% of the original Alonso prototipe,i think plastic not affect,this is not ionic device.
There is some more secrets,i will try to improve my pistoldetektor.
regards

[Morgan]

Morgan

Good work! Now, is time for to dig the treasures!
Hello Esteban
Not so fast... Field test results not satisfy me.
Can you give me some clues about ferrite?Its important number of turns,wire diameter,Gap distance?
In reality,what makes this device act as LRL,ferrite is more important than coils RX,TX?

Best regards

[gold24h]

Nice looking locator morgan,i am still working on my bfo-radio locator.I will be testing it on two silver dollars buried together that have been buried for about three years,i do not know if they have been in the ground long enough or not but i will post the results.

[hillman]

hi i want to bild one ,but i have no information about the coil ,can you help me ?:):cool:

[Morgan]

hi i want to bild one ,but i have no information about the coil ,can you help me ?:):cool:
I can help everybody here,but please convince Esteban to answer my questions about FERRITE in Pistoldetektor:(

[Morgan]

I find this Pistoldetektor very similar to Mineoro DC2008. It makes the same noise when locate metals,but not randomic device as Mineoro.
I open my DC2008 to see what´s inside,and for my surprise i dont see search coils,only square antenna,and electronics sealed with black resine...

[nelson]

Hi Morgan.
About your detector, can you share files, like schematics, pcb and full information to build one of these detectors, so in this way all people like me, that whants to experiments with these devices, can help to demonstrate how this circuit really works.
Regards
Nelson
email: ce3llp@mi.cl

4529

4530

[aft_72005]

Hi Morgan.
About your detector, can you share files, like schematics, pcb and full information to build one of these detectors, so in this way all people like me, that whants to experiments with these devices, can help to demonstrate how this circuit really works.
Regards
Nelson
email: ce3llp@mi.cl

Hi Nelson
How are you?
Seem as you don’t know . it is “ top secret� :lol::lol::lol:

[Morgan]

Hi Nelson
How are you?
Seem as you don’t know . it is “ top secret� :lol::lol::lol:
I have made my promisse to Esteban and some others ,that PD schematic will remain in secret.
If you realy need info,you can ask to the skeptics who build this device and said not works as LRL,example Max,JP and a few others...Im sure they will help you;)

[humhum]

This work for very long distance (around 5Km) and only for buried valuable metals. I did test with it and works very stability.
http://s46.radikal.ru/i111/0906/9e/84412813c538.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)




And My Homemade PD :

http://s57.radikal.ru/i155/0906/2e/f872eb2fdda5.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)
http://s60.radikal.ru/i168/0906/8e/29f674a60253.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)
http://s41.radikal.ru/i093/0906/89/8f78dc629053.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)

Works so:
Ferrite+IR
Ferite+MD+Stimulator coil
Only Telescopic receiver
Only MD with autotune
MD+ Ionic and Electrostatic receiver.

Thanks Esteban ,Thanks Morgan for all.

[Fred]

I suppose in a 5km radius you can find hundred of targets,how do you choose the right one?
what schematic did you use?

[Morgan]

I suppose in a 5km radius you can find hundred of targets,how do you choose the right one?
what schematic did you use?
Helo Fred

I supose Humhum means treasure in 5 km,anyway i find this to much good to be true... About PD i believe he build and conclude the project sucessful.
I still waithing someone from forum to visit me and try the PD,you can be part of this list...

regards

[Morgan]

This work for very long distance (around 5Km) and only for buried valuable metals. I did test with it and works very stability.
http://s46.radikal.ru/i111/0906/9e/84412813c538.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)




And My Homemade PD :

http://s57.radikal.ru/i155/0906/2e/f872eb2fdda5.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)
http://s60.radikal.ru/i168/0906/8e/29f674a60253.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)
http://s41.radikal.ru/i093/0906/89/8f78dc629053.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)

Works so:
Ferrite+IR
Ferite+MD+Stimulator coil
Only Telescopic receiver
Only MD with autotune
MD+ Ionic and Electrostatic receiver.

Thanks Esteban ,Thanks Morgan for all.
Hello Humhum

Thanks,
And about your PD,wath distance can detect buried gold or silver ?

Regards

[humhum]

Helo Fred

I supose Humhum means treasure in 5 km,anyway i find this to much good to be true... About PD i believe he build and conclude the project sucessful.
I still waithing someone from forum to visit me and try the PD,you can be part of this list...

regards


Yes, distance from my LRL to tresure is 5Km.

[humhum]

Hello Humhum

Thanks,
And about your PD,wath distance can detect buried gold or silver ?

Regards


Hi Morgan , my PD not sens for many distance, only few meter.

[Max]

Hello Humhum

Thanks,
And about your PD,wath distance can detect buried gold or silver ?

Regards

Seem dang heavy! :lol:

I made lightweight... but don't work as LRL... or anything apart simple MD! :D

With all such switches it seems like a nuclear-plant control panel... :lol:

Are you sure it will not explode ??? :razz:

Kind regards,
Max

[homefire]

I want to build one of these! :cool:

Modified with Digital circuits of course.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg70/aznuggetbob/wishstick1.jpg

[Theseus]

I want to build one of these! :cool:

Modified with Digital circuits of course.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg70/aznuggetbob/wishstick1.jpg

Well, at least you didn't post a secret LRL design.

Posting PWB artwork without a schematic, or boasting about some secret LRL design that "supposedly" works over long distances is a total waste of time and Forum bandwidth. :frown:

Apparently it doesn't take much to boost some folks' ego; but posting secret LRL designs seems like a stunt more suited to what grade-school children might engage in. :lol::lol:

Somebody needs to grow up and get a life. :rolleyes:

[humhum]

Seem dang heavy! :lol:

I made lightweight... but don't work as LRL... or anything apart simple MD! :D

With all such switches it seems like a nuclear-plant control panel... :lol:

Are you sure it will not explode ??? :razz:

Kind regards,
Max


:lol:Very good jape Max .

Best Regards.

[Seden]

Where did you find such an electronic dowsing rod? I thought I'd seen 'em all but this ones interesting. If I were to build that I'd at least bring out a contact to each handle so the hands pick up the Radiation. I'd also use a chrysoprase crystal in front with electrodes on either side. Just a thought. Pure Synthetic Chrysoprase is used to detect millimeter and sub-millimeter waves by the way. You can buy a raw crystal for under $10 on ebay which I have (2.2oz).

Randy-oh and let the Junior High Critics begin! Come boys,come on down! Yee ha!

[Max]

I want to build one of these! :cool:

Modified with Digital circuits of course.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg70/aznuggetbob/wishstick1.jpg

Hi,
congratulations... but...what's that ? :lol:

Seems some strange/bizarre battery powered $ex-ual toy! :D

Don't tell me... you wear all latex suite and a dark raincoat ...then scary the passers in the streets, with fast opening of raincoat and showing that stuff? :lol:

This remote sensing forum is truly a CIRCUS! :razz:

Kind regards,
Max

[homefire]

I Confess! It's Not my design.

I would like to build one though!:lol:

Introducing the Wishstick 2000!
This revolutionary new device can find it all, from fabulous treasures to long lost relatives.

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/style_images/1/img-resized.png Reduced: 79% of original size [ 801 x 1023 ] - Click to view full image
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg70/aznuggetbob/wishstick1.jpg


http://www.geotech1.com/forums/style_images/1/img-resized.png Reduced: 62% of original size [ 1022 x 483 ] - Click to view full image
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg70/aznuggetbob/wishstick2.jpg
The Wishstick 2000 is constructed of the finest materials available.

Just check out these fantastic new features.

Genuine ultra sensitive quartz controlled tip, (common quartz crystal)
Unlimited range, (only limited to your imagination)
Fully automatic ground balance,
Low battery alert built into a precision meter, (cheap battery tester)
Finest quality low oxygen copper multi-stranded windings, (lamp cord)
The handle is made of fine quality hardwood,(common az mesquite
But wait if you act now we'll include at no extra charge, A positive/negative switch in the handle for tuning out those undesirable relative finds,(obnoxious mother in law)
We have a limited supply of these, (limited to as many as we can sell)
Left handed models also available. (Duh)

Dont delay for those that take advantage of this great offer today we'll include a free AA battery!

Dont miss out on this special offer
Only $2000.00 plus S.H.

We accept payment by Great West Union monygram or cash!.
All returns subject to a $1995.00 restocking fee.
Some assembly required.
Another fine product brought to you by Crapyoudontneed Corp. a division of fly by night industries.

Note: This product is for entertainment purposes only, any resemblance to any other product is purely intentional. All rights (if any) are reserved.


Ive had this hanging on the wall for years and has been a lot of fun. AzNuggetBob

[Max]

I Confess! It's Not my design.

I would like to build one though!:lol:

Introducing the Wishstick 2000!
This revolutionary new device can find it all, from fabulous treasures to long lost relatives.

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/style_images/1/img-resized.png Reduced: 79% of original size [ 801 x 1023 ] - Click to view full image
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg70/aznuggetbob/wishstick1.jpg


http://www.geotech1.com/forums/style_images/1/img-resized.png Reduced: 62% of original size [ 1022 x 483 ] - Click to view full image
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg70/aznuggetbob/wishstick2.jpg
The Wishstick 2000 is constructed of the finest materials available.

Just check out these fantastic new features.

Genuine ultra sensitive quartz controlled tip, (common quartz crystal)
Unlimited range, (only limited to your imagination)
Fully automatic ground balance,
Low battery alert built into a precision meter, (cheap battery tester)
Finest quality low oxygen copper multi-stranded windings, (lamp cord)
The handle is made of fine quality hardwood,(common az mesquite
But wait if you act now we'll include at no extra charge, A positive/negative switch in the handle for tuning out those undesirable relative finds,(obnoxious mother in law)
We have a limited supply of these, (limited to as many as we can sell)
Left handed models also available. (Duh)

Dont delay for those that take advantage of this great offer today we'll include a free AA battery!

Dont miss out on this special offer
Only $2000.00 plus S.H.

We accept payment by Great West Union monygram or cash!.
All returns subject to a $1995.00 restocking fee.
Some assembly required.
Another fine product brought to you by Crapyoudontneed Corp. a division of fly by night industries.

Note: This product is for entertainment purposes only, any resemblance to any other product is purely intentional. All rights (if any) are reserved.


Ive had this hanging on the wall for years and has been a lot of fun. AzNuggetBob






:lol:

Looks better than Dell's paint roller handle...;)

It's the kind of gizmo many people here would buy ! :D

Of course... magic of crystals is basic principle of all them... so the choice of quartz stuff was really appropriate! :rolleyes:

Now we just need a telephone wire to wrap around the head to imporve detection range and go straight for treasures... a'la lrl-fanatics!

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Instead your ugly stick, you can use ferrite.

[Max]

Instead your ugly stick, you can use ferrite.

And will find the same amount of treasures ! :lol:

ZERO

[Esteban]

And will find the same amount of treasures ! :lol:

ZERO

Treasures are very easy to find with PDs... the "problem" are very small things, no the treasures. But you know how to do it, I think! :rolleyes: :lol:

[Max]

Treasures are very easy to find with PDs... the "problem" are very small things, no the treasures. But you know how to do it, I think! :rolleyes: :lol:

With conventional MDs ! That's the only way! :lol:

[Esteban]

With conventional MDs ! That's the only way! :lol:

Of, course... for the only way you know! :razz:

[Max]

Of, course... for the only way you know! :razz:

If have another post it here... not stamp-sized schematics and science-fiction.fairy-tales... but a project anyone can build and test.

Nothing more... something that detects a coin at 2meters.

Not 2kilometers.

Or this way you said is just for LRL-belivers!?:razz:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

If have another post it here... not stamp-sized schematics and science-fiction.fairy-tales... but a project anyone can build and test.

Nothing more... something that detects a coin at 2meters.

Not 2kilometers.

Or this way you said is just for LRL-belivers!?:razz:

Kind regards,
Max

Never I detect a coin at 2 Km. A pistol made by Alonso for me was capable of detect a coin at 70 m.

[Max]

Never I detect a coin at 2 Km. A pistol made by Alonso for me was capable of detect a coin at 70 m.

Uh ! Just 70meters for a coin !? :lol:
You guys better try with horse-races! :razz:

Of course, I'm not saying that's possible to detect a coin at 70meters... sure it ISN'T but that I heard of coin detection from 1mile and more by brilliant minds here... like Dr. Hung! :D

So... you and Alonso seems are doing just boy-scouts games compared to Dr. Hung and his A-team! :rolleyes:

Or we may expect debunkering also from you ??? :cool:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Uh ! Just 70meters for a coin !? :lol:
You guys better try with horse-races! :razz:

Of course, I'm not saying that's possible to detect a coin at 70meters... sure it ISN'T but that I heard of coin detection from 1mile and more by brilliant minds here... like Dr. Hung! :D

So... you and Alonso seems are doing just boy-scouts games compared to Dr. Hung and his A-team! :rolleyes:

Or we may expect debunkering also from you ??? :cool:

Kind regards,
Max

Why not 70 meters in horizontal? The main problem is depth... always! Or you don't know it? :lol: This distance is possible in sites far of electromagnetic radiations and other interferences... and maybe IR laser can detect very very far... :razz:

[Esteban]

Uh ! Just 70meters for a coin !? :lol:
You guys better try with horse-races! :razz:

Of course, I'm not saying that's possible to detect a coin at 70meters... sure it ISN'T but that I heard of coin detection from 1mile and more by brilliant minds here... like Dr. Hung! :D

So... you and Alonso seems are doing just boy-scouts games compared to Dr. Hung and his A-team! :rolleyes:

Or we may expect debunkering also from you ??? :cool:

Kind regards,
Max

Who is "we"? Only you? :lol: :lol:

[Max]

Why not 70 meters in horizontal? The main problem is depth... always! Or you don't know it? :lol: This distance is possible in sites far of electromagnetic radiations and other interferences... and maybe IR laser can detect very very far... :razz:

Still just big claims...

NO FACTS.:D

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Who is "we"? Only you? :lol: :lol:

Expecting debunkering... ???? :rolleyes:

Me, Qiaozhi, Fred, J_Player and maybe many others... cause seems debunkering will start... sooner or later...

You may ask Dr. Hung for details of the show... :lol:

It's your colleague! :razz:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Expecting debunkering... ???? :rolleyes:

Me, Qiaozhi, Fred, J_Player and maybe many others... cause seems debunkering will start... sooner or later...

You may ask Dr. Hung for details of the show... :lol:

It's your colleague! :razz:

Kind regards,
Max

Don't believe... as I see, you're the only. :razz:

[Max]

Don't believe... as I see, you're the only. :razz:

Debunkering will have big audience... if will start I mean! :lol:

The trailer was about gold-DNA... so we can stay tuned for new pearls from Brazil...:razz:

Discoveries of Dr. Hung... and his claim for Nobel prize!:D

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Debunkering will have big audience... if will start I mean! :lol:

The trailer was about gold-DNA... so we can stay tuned for new pearls from Brazil...:razz:

Discoveries of Dr. Hung... and his claim for Nobel prize!:D

Kind regards,
Max

Do you think the big audience need your noise? :razz: