mineoro experiments (pdc205-pdc210)

[digital logic]

Initially thanks for invitation.
For mineoro experiments we suggest at first a small modification at the free loop around the electrostatic chamberon the board of the machine.
We have seen in that when you replace the resistor and the capacitors at the ends of the loop with a variable capacitor 10-60 pf the reaction of the machine is sharper.
Using a garage telecontol transmitter tuned around 390 mhz we tune the capacitor until mineoro beeps.
This will help the rf sensitivity of the machine.
We have noted that successful target identification comes when three parameters are pressed.

VLF activity monitored by a vlf receiver between 20-70 khz must be hi.(not storms or whistles, but radio frequency hi propagation and signals).
Humidity around 35 % .
Electrostatic electricity on the atmosphere at max. (Cloudy sky before rain. Some sunny days that electrostatic charges are foul. E.g north wind for some hours and then stops).
At these conditions mineoro always works.
The most important parameter is the vlf background .
Somebody says that: when the atmosphere electricity increases comes simultaneously with vlf better level signals.
We also have connected a large (1000 turns 1m diameter) coil to oscilloscope above the target.
The result was a noisy figure.
When some repeatable sparks were appeared on the screen the mineoro detected the target.

Maybe the concept is as follows:
Around the target is constructed by the years a cold electrostatic foam of plasma.
This normally is neutral. Any cosmic ray or hot neutron or any strong radiation disturbs the balance and produces Coulomb explosion.
The coulomb explosions generates alpha ,beta- (SPARKS) and positrons emissions. The positrons are non-stable and they are transformed in a two-photon emission in very short time.
We have detected small targets at the above conditions .
When the machine stopped detecting We checked the manufacturers
antenna rod .
Seaking the antenna rod above the target the machine products beeps synchronus
to the antenna movements at a distance of ten meters.
Generally in Greece we have low vlf signal levels and the machine works for short periods and for a lot of days it may be dead.
We have tried an additional coil of six turns around the external box of the wood ,no were connected. It increases vlf reception and the distance reaction but it destroys the directional ability of the machine.
We have not found a bigger and deeper target. All targets were small and near the surface (coins and jewellery).
That’s all for moment.

Best regards
Digital logic

[putrechigi]

Thank you very much another serious person who makes interesting information in this forum

[hung]

Digital Logic,

Some considerations.

When performing mods on the PDC you must be very cautious or you might uncalibrate it in a way which might indicate better performance but on the other hand you are just increasing artifacts and artificial signal feeds which might lead to falsings.

I don't see the point in using the 60pf varicap unless you use it to scan for a fixed capacitance. Yet this would have to be tested in loco(targets). But you are just playing with the RF portion of it. The complex part is the ionic section which is the cause this detector is almost impossible to be cloned without critical information.

When you added turns around the PDC box you were just augmenting VLF reception and also and most critical, you were making it more prone to interference, specially in the RF near field.

In fact when we (my team), were researching and designing the project of our LRL system, we think we came up with the understanding of how the Mineoro works and picks up the signals. We confirmed the ionic/electrostatic principle but it is not what people think of it in this forum. And it's not the Coulomb explanation either, although this phenomena might be somewhat a consequence, not a cause. I don't think it's fair to release such info as the inventors have all the merits, so I'll respect that.

Anyway, since in our team PDCs and FGs abound, one member has right now an open PDC. He disassembled the device to study it. Actually we are so busy on our LRL project that we have not considered looking at his machine right now, but after our system is ready I have the idea that we get together in a mission to test some mods and try to enhance the PDC.

So if you wish, in the mean time, since you are looking into it already, I can pass him any suggested mod to try to replicate in his PDC to check if results are similar.
But for this, real targets have to be used, not any RF or other artificial emission.

[hung]

VLF activity monitored by a vlf receiver between 20-70 khz must be hi.(not storms or whistles, but radio frequency hi propagation and signals).

Humidity around 35 % .
Electrostatic electricity on the atmosphere at max. (Cloudy sky before rain. Some sunny days that electrostatic charges are foul. E.g north wind for some hours and then stops).At these conditions mineoro always works.

These are important but are not the key factors.
I had my PDC working at night for 3 to 4 days in a row working all the time. Specially if you are over a natural gold region where the atmosphere is ionized.

We also have connected a large (1000 turns 1m diameter) coil to oscilloscope above the target.
The result was a noisy figure.
When some repeatable sparks were appeared on the screen the mineoro detected the target.


Doesn't make any sense to me. If you turn an EM device, even with diiminshed power close to a target, you ruin the ionic field for several hours or even days.
If the Mineoro beeped as you say, it would never be detecting the target itself but being affected by interference of the coil.

[Geo]

Hi Hung:)
Digital said that he will give me a pdc-205 to experiment with it.They is sure that something becomes with the appearance of certain low frequencies, thus now I draw a powerful generator for this aim. Generally I will inform you for the results. Positive is that the Mjneoro works under certain conditions (unknown currently to me). Now for the sensor of ions............. I have enough reserves :razz:
Digital very good your article, Bravo.:)
Regards:)

[hung]

Hi Hung:)
Digital said that he will give me a pdc-205 to experiment with it.They is sure that something becomes with the appearance of certain low frequencies, thus now I draw a powerful generator for this aim. Generally I will inform you for the results. Positive is that the Mjneoro works under certain conditions (unknown currently to me). Now for the sensor of ions............. I have enough reserves :razz:
Digital very good your article, Bravo.:)
Regards:)

Hi Geo, good. Maybe we can trade some ideas even if private messaging might be necessary. For now, Esteban is by far, the most qualified person to coment on the PDCs project since he dealt with the circuit and PCBs.

My friend has also a 205 which I just looked at it once and quickly. I really would like to look into it deeply after we finish with my system.

PS. Don't understimate the ionic chamber and its system. If you ever understand the principle of all of this, you'll see how clever it is.

Regards.

[Geo]

Hi Hung.
I know:):):)
Best Regards:)

[evit]

Initially thanks for invitation.
For mineoro experiments we suggest at first a small modification at the free loop around the electrostatic chamberon the board of the machine.
We have seen in that when you replace the resistor and the capacitors at the ends of the loop with a variable capacitor 10-60 pf the reaction of the machine is sharper.
Using a garage telecontol transmitter tuned around 390 mhz we tune the capacitor until mineoro beeps.
This will help the rf sensitivity of the machine.
We have noted that successful target identification comes when three parameters are pressed.

VLF activity monitored by a vlf receiver between 20-70 khz must be hi.(not storms or whistles, but radio frequency hi propagation and signals).
Humidity around 35 % .
Electrostatic electricity on the atmosphere at max. (Cloudy sky before rain. Some sunny days that electrostatic charges are foul. E.g north wind for some hours and then stops).At these conditions mineoro always works.
The most important parameter is the vlf background .
Somebody says that: when the atmosphere electricity increases comes simultaneously with vlf better level signals.
We also have connected a large (1000 turns 1m diameter) coil to oscilloscope above the target.
The result was a noisy figure.
When some repeatable sparks were appeared on the screen the mineoro detected the target.

Maybe the concept is as follows:
Around the target is constructed by the years a cold electrostatic foam of plasma.
This normally is neutral. Any cosmic ray or hot neutron or any strong radiation disturbs the balance and produces Coulomb explosion.
The coulomb explosions generates alpha ,beta- (SPARKS) and positrons emissions. The positrons are non-stable and they are transformed in a two-photon emission in very short time.
We have detected small targets at the above conditions .
When the machine stopped detecting We checked the manufacturers
antenna rod .
Seaking the antenna rod above the target the machine products beeps synchronus
to the antenna movements at a distance of ten meters.
Generally in Greece we have low vlf signal levels and the machine works for short periods and for a lot of days it may be dead.
We have tried an additional coil of six turns around the external box of the wood ,no were connected. It increases vlf reception and the distance reaction but it destroys the directional ability of the machine.
We have not found a bigger and deeper target. All targets were small and near the surface (coins and jewellery).
That’s all for moment.

Best regards
Digital logic

Hello to all
It seems to me very strange that there is a return to the discussion on the MINEORO. I think that there are two ways to gain publicity. One way is a
presentation of an electronic appliance, that it truly really works, and the other way is an introduction of various secondary parameters that help it to
work, so that there is an increase of the public interest and we can try to persuade the public opinion that it really works.
Here we have read a very good analysis of the workings of the mineoro , genuine, persuasive and a new beginning of the way we can upgrade it and a
new revolutionary explanation.
For me, all this new explanation is coming from Europe, where I believe that the sales of the mineoro have dropped dramatically. Consequently I believe
that all this information is being given out for Europe and specifically in regions with big commercial interest, as is Greece, Turkey, Italy to lift up sales of
the mineoro's again. All this sudden "new revelation knowledge" was never seen or published before where there were countless and endless
discussions on many forums if these detectors work or not.And I ask ,why was this information not published before?
So now we have suddenly new members on this forum who have "found small coins and gold items" and up till now have left us all in the dark and in
ignorance, who have now decided to give us the true way of the mineoros.......suspicious..........for me.
So if our new members are sincere and have all this knowledge they should upload to this forum schematics and circuits of the upgrades they have
acomplished on the mineoro detectors so that we can try them and see for ourselves if they really work.
But we will never see schematic diagrams and circuits, but I am sure will always see a new representative or a company that will produce improved
detectors and upgrades on the mineoros, naturally with big profit and perhaps new models of companies... with enormous possibilities.
Personally if I had all this knowledge like they say they have I would have built my own model, to be competitive in pricing, and if I could sell 50 units a
year at 3000$ each that would make 150,000$ for me.Not a bad profit indeed...........

[evit]

Initially thanks for invitation.
For mineoro experiments we suggest at first a small modification at the free loop around the electrostatic chamberon the board of the machine.
We have seen in that when you replace the resistor and the capacitors at the ends of the loop with a variable capacitor 10-60 pf the reaction of the machine is sharper.
Using a garage telecontol transmitter tuned around 390 mhz we tune the capacitor until mineoro beeps.
This will help the rf sensitivity of the machine.
We have noted that successful target identification comes when three parameters are pressed.

VLF activity monitored by a vlf receiver between 20-70 khz must be hi.(not storms or whistles, but radio frequency hi propagation and signals).
Humidity around 35 % .
Electrostatic electricity on the atmosphere at max. (Cloudy sky before rain. Some sunny days that electrostatic charges are foul. E.g north wind for some hours and then stops).At these conditions mineoro always works.
The most important parameter is the vlf background .
Somebody says that: when the atmosphere electricity increases comes simultaneously with vlf better level signals.
We also have connected a large (1000 turns 1m diameter) coil to oscilloscope above the target.
The result was a noisy figure.
When some repeatable sparks were appeared on the screen the mineoro detected the target.

Maybe the concept is as follows:
Around the target is constructed by the years a cold electrostatic foam of plasma.
This normally is neutral. Any cosmic ray or hot neutron or any strong radiation disturbs the balance and produces Coulomb explosion.
The coulomb explosions generates alpha ,beta- (SPARKS) and positrons emissions. The positrons are non-stable and they are transformed in a two-photon emission in very short time.
We have detected small targets at the above conditions .
When the machine stopped detecting We checked the manufacturers
antenna rod .
Seaking the antenna rod above the target the machine products beeps synchronus
to the antenna movements at a distance of ten meters.
Generally in Greece we have low vlf signal levels and the machine works for short periods and for a lot of days it may be dead.
We have tried an additional coil of six turns around the external box of the wood ,no were connected. It increases vlf reception and the distance reaction but it destroys the directional ability of the machine.
We have not found a bigger and deeper target. All targets were small and near the surface (coins and jewellery).
That’s all for moment.

Best regards
Digital logic

Hello to all
It seems to me very strange that there is a return to the discussion on the MINEORO. I think that there are two ways to gain publicity. One way is a
presentation of an electronic appliance, that it truly really works, and the other way is an introduction of various secondary parameters that help it to
work, so that there is an increase of the public interest and we can try to persuade the public opinion that it really works.
Here we have read a very good analysis of the workings of the mineoro , genuine, persuasive and a new beginning of the way we can upgrade it and a
new revolutionary explanation.
For me, all this new explanation is coming from Europe, where I believe that the sales of the mineoro have dropped dramatically. Consequently I believe
that all this information is being given out for Europe and specifically in regions with big commercial interest, as is Greece, Turkey, Italy to lift up sales of the mineoro's again. All this sudden "new revelation knowledge" was never seen or published before where there were countless and endless
discussions on many forums if these detectors work or not.And I ask ,why was this information not published before?
So now we have suddenly new members on this forum who have "found small coins and gold items" and up till now have left us all in the dark and in
ignorance, who have now decided to give us the true way of the mineoros.......suspicious..........for me.
So if our new members are sincere and have all this knowledge they should upload to this forum schematics and circuits of the upgrades they have
acomplished on the mineoro detectors so that we can try them and see for ourselves if they really work.
But we will never see schematic diagrams and circuits, but I am sure we will always see a representative or a company that will produce improved
detectors and upgrades on their products , with small cost ,but big profit for themselves.
Personally if I had all this knowledge like our new forum members have, I would have produced my own model, to be competitive in pricing, and if I could sell 50 units a year at 3000$ each that would make 150,000$ for me.Not a bad profit indeed...........

[Qiaozhi]

..... there were countless and endless
discussions on many forums if these detectors work or not.
Of course, this type of discussion only occurs with LRLs like the Mineoro. It never happens with other "real" detectors. The fact that these so-called LRLs sell at all, is purely down to human psychology. People have a natural tendency to believe that something is true, especially if it's written down, until proven otherwise.

A person, who has convinced himself to purchase an LRL, goes through 5 stages during ownership of the device:

Disbelief and denial when the device fails to function as advertised. This phase can last a considerable time.
Once realisation sets in, that they've been taken for a sucker, the emotions switch to anger and resentment.
At this stage the LRL owner tries to get his money back by bargaining with the manufacturer, but often fails to even get a reply.
Depression swiftly follows. No-one likes to discover that they've been scammed.
Acceptance. It's all part of the learning curve. The once happy LRL owner then reports the whole sad experience on the Geotech Remote Sensing Forum, only to be told by Hung that he's incompetent and doesn't know how to use it.

[Geo]

Hi Evit. I consider little error to cannot somebody say his opinion:nono: for a appliance and be in danger to accused that it advertizes the company that manufactures the appliance:angry:. As they exist faithful supporters of certain companies, thus exist also opposite supporters of this companies. And these have somebody other interests than other competitive companies
Finally maybe a lot of fanatic supporters of one of other theory are employees of relative companies:lol::lol::lol:. They are paid:razz: in order to they say something:razz: but also in order to disagreeing permanently with something:razz:??
:lol::lol::lol:

Don't say this...... :lol: bla..bla .. bla
Don't say the other :razz: blablabla
dont....dont....dont
But our detectors work........:razz::razz::razz::razz:

[Fred]

Hi Hung.
I know:):):)
Best Regards:)

Hi Geo,
you know, but is that a secret? Why you dont share your knowledge?

[putrechigi]

Fred good question but I fear that you will answer 'wait long

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
you know, but is that a secret? Why you dont share your knowledge?

Sorry Fred.
Yes it is a secret:(
Regards:)

[Geo]

Fred good question but I fear that you will answer 'wait long

Only few hours:lol::lol:

[putrechigi]

Things' has bought the cia? (Now echelon we spy?) Before you were not so, the sum must be beautiful big ....................:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol:

[putrechigi]

Things' has bought the cia? (Now echelon we spy?) Before you were not so the sum must be beautiful big ....................:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Geo]

In each thing exists also something secret. Why you do not accept it???
Why you prefer from me to say lies and not the truth?
Do you think that here you will learn everything:lol:......... No:(
Regards:)

[putrechigi]

Geo sorry but I do not understand why write a forum? If I am not mistaken you in a discussion said esteban that (your words) gave information with the dropper? Then? Now that you have information you do the same? Esteban at least all that puts experiences in the forum but perhaps fails, is logical to have his experiments, instead make you understand and know not say that disappointment:nono::nono:
best reguards

[Fred]

Hi Geo,
It´s true that something has changed with you.
The only reasons men have secrets, (except love affairs ;) ), is business.
I think the real problem here is not that you have a secret, but that you told us about it ...
Fred.

[Geo]

Geo sorry but I do not understand why write a forum? If I am not mistaken you in a discussion said esteban that (your words) gave information with the dropper? I can't understand you. Please find it and put it here (Geo). Then? Now that you have information you do the same? Esteban at least all that puts experiences in the forum but perhaps fails, is logical to have his experiments, instead make you understand and know not say that disappointment:nono::nono:
best reguards

I can't understand why if i find a secret i must give it here ?????
I consider much more honest i say that "it is secret and I do not say nothing", from to say "I do not know nothing".
Regards:)

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
It´s true that something has changed with you.
The only reasons men have secrets, (except love affairs ;) ), is business.
I think the real problem here is not that you have a secret, but that you told us about it ...
Fred.

If I do not want something to say this does not mean that something has changed with remained.I watch years this forum and I did not never try to exploit anything and anyone from here in. On the contrary I tried to help enough individuals on subjects of detectors (as long as me allowed my knowledge).
The manufacture of detectors is my hobby and does not have no professional activity with them contary to a lot of other in this forum. Whenever I do not understand why this attack because I want to keep a secret for me

[Qiaozhi]

If I do not want something to say this does not mean that something has changed with remained.I watch years this forum and I did not never try to exploit anything and anyone from here in. On the contrary I tried to help enough individuals on subjects of detectors (as long as me allowed my knowledge).
The manufacture of detectors is my hobby and does not have no professional activity with them contary to a lot of other in this forum. Whenever I do not understand why this attack because I want to keep a secret for me
Hi Geo,

I think that putrechigi and Fred are simply wondering why you bothered to mention the secret at all, if you were not going to reveal it.
It seems a pointless exercise.

[Geo]

I can say that it is my error.Simply the other time I will remain silent:lol:

[Fred]

Ok Geo, it is as Qiaozhi said.Absolutely no atack from me, just observations.You gave the answer...i guess.

By not revelating the "secret" maybe you are just being loyal towards all of your friends-NOT telling it maybe important for those who sells the detector, but also the best you can do for all others.

Now, i have a different question : do you still need to work in life? :D

Good luck,
Fred.

[Esteban]

You can build simple "electrical" system for to detect buried gold using magnetics and other few things, no RF, no radio. Electronic part is audio. But as Geo said, secret! :D

[Geo]

Now, i have a different question : do you still need to work in life? :D

Good luck,
Fred.
Hehehe:lol:. Greece is not a rich country, so it is not so easy for us to stop the work.
Now about me...... i am 47 years old:angry:, i have 3 children:) and i must do 2 works:( so to have a economic comfort.
I think that this is enough:)
Do not confuse me with employees of companies of detectors manufacture.

[Geo]

Hi Esteban:).
Very good and very low resolution schematic:lol:
Regards:)

[mosha]

You can build simple "electrical" system for to detect buried gold using magnetics and other few things, no RF, no radio. Electronic part is audio. But as Geo said, secret! :D
Hi Esteban & Geo

for me I do not want to know secrets, just want to kow if Mineoro work and how?

regards,

[nelson]

Hi Estebam, nice to talk to you again.

About this schematic, can you share it? Is this similar to the one you are holding on your ID picture?

This cause i m still interested on doing some experiments, after a finish two detectors that im still building.

Best regards

Nelson


You can build simple "electrical" system for to detect buried gold using magnetics and other few things, no RF, no radio. Electronic part is audio. But as Geo said, secret! :D

[putrechigi]

http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?t=13356&page=2

Hello everyone in a particular geo esteban, and geo then served here are a few comments as your behavior at that time?

[putrechigi]

Of course my hope is to one day be able to invite someone in italy (as with iconos) and to be able to search for treasures that are in subsoil of my country, not devonecessariamente buy one, anyone can keep his secrets on lrl course I only enough research:D:D

Esteban can tell you if chin

[Fred]

Hehehe:lol:. Greece is not a rich country, so it is not so easy for us to stop the work.
Now about me...... i am 47 years old:angry:, i have 3 children:) and i must do 2 works:( so to have a economic comfort.
I think that this is enough:)
Do not confuse me with employees of companies of detectors manufacture.

Hi Geo,
All OK.But Greek underground IS very rich, with good detector you dont need to work anymore. :lol:
So my conclusion is that you dont have a good working LRL, :lol::lol::razz:.
Dont get angry , i am just joking.
Best regards,
Fred.

[Esteban]

Hi Geo, hi Putrechigi, hi Nelson... hi all:

I hear that a person found with Iconos 207 gold coins in historic site (all Europe is historic!), another person found small family treasure (jewels), but they are reluctance for to post... Also I can't confirm.

I don't believe you can FREELY dig it regarding laws in Italy, UK, Greece, etc.

Regards

Esteban

[Fred]

Yeah, right.
This happens everyday.Even guys without detectors sometimes found treasures...
It´s Just like the schematic ou posted:good enought for people who already want to believe, but nothing more..
In fact, showing this diagram is an offense to reader´s intelligence .
Fred.

[putrechigi]

Hello esteban the only states where it is not possible to dig are italy and greece uk but it is possible to dig and find all that but has the right of first refusal if the English were not you buy it is yours, everything in italy 'that are in places that are not subject to bond archaeological you must condemn them to the state within 24 hours but I have to be prior to 1928 if not' yours in greece not so 'ask geo

I hope that
Translation functions well

best reguards

[putrechigi]

I can't understand why if i find a secret i must give it here ?????
I consider much more honest i say that "it is secret and I do not say nothing", from to say "I do not know nothing".
Regards:)



Hello geo why not conduct your comments then? http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?t=13356&page=2
:nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::n ono:

Who is the crazy now? :razz::razz::razz::razz::razz::razz::razz::razz::r azz::razz:

I been playing naturally:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Geo]

Hello geo why not conduct your comments then? http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?t=13356&page=2
:nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::n ono:

Who is the crazy now? :razz::razz::razz::razz::razz::razz::razz::razz::r azz::razz:

I been playing naturally:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

This is what i wrote to Esteban
"Ha.http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/images/smilies/smilies/lol.gif ... hahttp://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/images/smilies/smilies/lol.gif ..... hahttp://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/images/smilies/smilies/lol.gif
Hi Estebanhttp://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/images/smilies/smilies/smile.gif
Ohhh ... you give us your technology a little and little (as we say in Greece with dropper ). At how many years you will give us all your technology ????
My regardshttp://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/images/smilies/smilies/smile.gif"

Do you know if i know Esteban ????? NO:(
Do you know what is Humor....: NO :(:angry:
Do you have Humor: NO:angry::razz:
Do you want... want.... want.... want.... YES:lol:
The only think that you do is that you ask.:razz:.. ask:razz:..... ask:razz:.... nothing else:lol:.
And now you want me i apologise to you:razz:........... No:razz::lol::lol:
Find some other to exercise your English...:lol::lol::lol::lol:.

[Esteban]

Yeah, right.
This happens everyday.Even guys without detectors sometimes found treasures...
It´s Just like the schematic ou posted:good enought for people who already want to believe, but nothing more..
In fact, showing this diagram is an offense to reader´s intelligence .
Fred.


A simple advice: I know because I learn from other. :D

So easy... also with a simple cassette recorder... So, you, me, others... can put his mind in a simple sample-magnetic system... mean think in things nobody think, this is, in strange mode for to see the things.

You don't need a specific schematic that can offense the readers. If you think that the things must to be complicate for to no offense the readers, the engineers, scientifics, etc., you're wrong.

"In any field, find the strangest thing and then explore it." - John A. Wheeler

"Doubt everything or believe everything: these are two equally convenient strategies. With either we dispense with the need for reflection." - Henri Poincare

[hung]

Esteban, I'm proud to see how you've grown up scientifically.
Keep up this state of mind. Kudos to you my friend.:thumb:

Regards.

[putrechigi]

Esteban excuse six more able to prove iconos your friend?
Best reguards

[Esteban]

Hi Hung

Thanks very much good friend. :) My wishes for you and all the persons of the forum are success in his plans.

[Fred]

Hi Esteban,
A simple advice: You don't need a specific schematic that can offense the readers. If you think that the things must to be complicate for to no offense the readers, the engineers, scientifics, etc., you're wrong.

No,it is not its simplicity that offend me , its the fact that you give a too low resolution schematic, as we give peanuts to monkeys.If you want to give info, you give it, or stay quiet.I asked nothing.


"Doubt everything or believe everything: these are two equally convenient strategies. With either we dispense with the need for reflection." - Henri Poincare

It is precisely because we think that we are here talking around.
when i see Hung paternally congratulating you to be SCIENTIFICALLY grown up,(a joke?!) i wonder where is the science ?? There is explanation for scientific discoveries or else it is not science .
Can you record your thoughts on a tape? Fine, but untill you explain it dont call it science.
Question:What is the point to keep it secret?


Fred

[Esteban]

This is what i wrote to Esteban
"Ha.:lol: ... ha:lol: ..... ha:lol:
Hi Esteban:)
Ohhh ... you give us your technology a little and little (as we say in Greece with dropper ). At how many years you will give us all your technology ????
My regards:)"

Do you know if i know Esteban ????? NO:(
Do you know what is Humor....: NO :(:angry:
Do you have Humor: NO:angry::razz:
Do you want... want.... want.... want.... YES:lol:
The only think that you do is that you ask.:razz:.. ask:razz:..... ask:razz:.... nothing else:lol:.
And now you want me i apologise to you:razz:........... No:razz::lol::lol:
Find some other to exercise your English...:lol::lol::lol::lol:.

Hi Geo, maybe you achieve some success, but isn't enough, the way is very long, the systems you can use for electronic LRL are... infinite! But I understand you're now very optimist, this is important, but be prudent in early success...

Maybe I drop slowly... but:

"You cannot teach a man anything, you can only help him find it within himself." - Galileo :D

[Morgan]

Hi Esteban & Geo

for me I do not want to know secrets, just want to kow if Mineoro work and how?

regards,
I have used some Mineoro models,and when you go to a place loaded with long time ago conductive metals the device become more active and beep many times,and for me it was allways impossible to pinpoint small targets,so this looks like a Gremlin LRL...If there is a LRL who can realy find treasure 700 m distance,i think just $5000 is little money for a device who realy worksat this distance.
Fortunly very soon i´m sure it will be developed a real LRL,and it will be based on real Metal detector tecnology,because this zahory,Mineoro,Iconos,they belong to the same STATIC family...I steel have my DC2008 4sale !!!

[Esteban]

Hi my Friend:

It is precisely because we think that we are here talking around.
when i see Hung paternally congratulating you to be SCIENTIFICALLY grown up,(a joke?!) i wonder where is the science ??

Leave the people loves me! :lol: :lol:


There is explanation for scientific discoveries or else it is not science .

I can't receive recognition from the scientific community because I'm not doctor in Physics.

Question:What is the point to keep it secret?

Can you record your thoughts on a tape? Fine, but untill you explain it dont call it science.

R.: See all my inputs (also in Archive section), maybe you can obtain a conclussion, so I'm not keeping any secret. You can record it and study. You can make this effort (any agency do this). This is, also, a scientific job.

Maybe I drop slowly... but as I said to Geo:

"You cannot teach a man anything, you can only help him find it within himself." - Galileo

Regards

Esteban

[Esteban]

Fortunly very soon i´m sure it will be developed a real LRL,and it will be based on real Metal detector tecnology,because this zahory,Mineoro,Iconos,they belong to the same STATIC family...I

Morgan, they exist since 1959, so I prevent the new inventors they don't will be the firsts! Look: :lol:

[Esteban]

Esteban excuse six more able to prove iconos your friend?
Best reguards

Hi Putrechigi

Soon

[Fred]

Hi !


I can't receive recognition from the scientific community because I'm not doctor in Physics.
I disagree:nowayday, with the communication means a real discovery can be made public,even witout background.Medias will love it.Write to a scientific magazine!

R.: See all my inputs (also in Archive section), maybe you can obtain a conclussion, so I'm not keeping any secret. You can record it and study. You can make this effort (any agency do this). This is, also, a scientific job.

Now i am confused : why to make me "dig" amongs tons of posts just to find something that is no secret??? You can call this a scientific job,(i dont)but has othing to do with MD´s .
why governments have not read your posts and stolen this invention?.Could it be used to find land mines, and save thousands of people?


Maybe I drop slowly... but as I said to Geo:
"You cannot teach a man anything, you can only help him find it within himself." - Galileo

This applies to something else, when he said that Galileo was probably flying highter.Did you "find within yourself" how to read and write?

Best Regards Esteban
Dont worry, be happy now...

[hung]

If there is a LRL who can realy find treasure 700 m distance,i think just $5000 is little money for a device who realy worksat this distance.

You're tripping man... Early this year my team in a research reached 1.2 miles with the PDC210 on target.

There's a treasure we are working on the recovery in a remote region which was picked from 600 m. It's a real humid enviornemnt which in normal conditions (dry air) would double this distance at least.

I know of a Mineoro user who last year found 2Kg of gold coins from 2 Km away. This was when the beeps first started. He's lucky because he lives in a desert like climate during the day.

There's a shipwreck near my home with a considerable amount of gold and silver. As this recovery is an extremely expensive operation due to excessively muddy bottom and trash on site, I gave up for now and use it as a reference to know wether the ionic fields are good or not a particular day.
I normally pick it with the PDC from 2 miles (detecting from the sea shore), although the beeps are weak most of time. I only get an increase during summer time. With the FG, I used to pick it from 350m more.

Enough for you?


Fortunly very soon i´m sure it will be developed a real LRL,and it will be based on real Metal detector tecnology,because this zahory,Mineoro,Iconos,they belong to the same STATIC family...I steel have my DC2008 4sale !!!

Well you're right on this. Soon I will acomplish my own LRL system which is not based on ionic/electrostatic principle. Initial tests show it reaches much more than the distances above mentioned.

But it sounds the detector you would really need is the one which also digs the treasure for you.:D
Well, you never know...

[Fred]

Soon I will acomplish my own LRL system which is not based on ionic/electrostatic principle. Initial tests show it reaches much more than the distances above mentioned.

The more i read, the more amazed i am.So there is more tan one way to find gold so far away? the "ionic/electrostatic principle", that was presented to be the big secret, has a big brother??

Man some day we all have one , usd 10 , from china.:)
Fred

[Morgan]

This simplificated schematic you put here its very good for this people in Forum start going to the right side of the real LRL of buried conductive metals,and start to forget the dificult , erratic and complicated way of ionic static detection of buried metals.
Next time you can give them the other part of this puzzle...

Best regards

[Fred]

Hi Morgan,
But there IS a ionic chamber on this schematic.

[Morgan]

Fortunly very soon i´m sure it will be developed a real LRL,and it will be based on real Metal detector tecnology,because this zahory,Mineoro,Iconos,they belong to the same STATIC family...I

Morgan, they exist since 1959, so I prevent the new inventors they don't will be the firsts! Look: :lol:
I´m sure this is true,and like i tell to you i have a prototipe ,russian device"Zelattoy",its very similar to this one you show on photo.
Maybe it works with the same MD tecnology from 1959,used BFO beat frequency oscilator.
I´m sure very soon someone will increase the performance on this machines and make true LRL with enough power to locate treasure 1km or more,and not just the limited 20 or 30m...
Its also possible to use this device to locate buried explosive mines. And it was more developed because of this purpose.

Best regards

[Morgan]

Hi Morgan,
But there IS a ionic chamber on this schematic.
No Fred,what you see in this schematic its the antena formed i think by 11turns of cooper wire,and the other part that you call ionic chamber,it seams to me a choque Micro Henry used in transistor radios.Better you ask to Esteban,but i´m sure its not Ionic chamber:nono:

Best regards

[Qiaozhi]

There's a shipwreck near my home with a considerable amount of gold and silver. As this recovery is an extremely expensive operation due to excessively muddy bottom and trash on site, I gave up for now and use it as a reference to know wether the ionic fields are good or not a particular day.
I normally pick it with the PDC from 2 miles (detecting from the sea shore), although the beeps are weak most of time. I only get an increase during summer time. With the FG, I used to pick it from 350m more.
Now this shows very concisely why this ionic detection nonsense is just pseudoscientific gobbledygook. We are told that the ionic phenomenon is reduced in humid conditions. But on the other hand, you want us to believe that gold from a shipwreck can be detected from 2 miles away. There is no way you can argue that the sea represents dry conditions. :rolleyes:

[J_Player]

There is no way you can argue that the sea represents dry conditions.Errrr... so what is the relative humidity of the ocean floor? :lol:

[Fred]

Now this shows very concisely why this ionic detection nonsense is just pseudoscientific gobbledygook. We are told that the ionic phenomenon is reduced in humid conditions. But on the other hand, you want us to believe that gold from a shipwreck can be detected from 2 miles away. There is no way you can argue that the sea represents dry conditions. :rolleyes:

This is irrelevant with the new super hight scientificly (upgradable) version of non-ionic secret technology chambers detectors.
As i mentioned,a dry-conditions-only detector is financially counter productive.
regards!
Fred.

[Esteban]

No Fred,what you see in this schematic its the antena formed i think by 11turns of cooper wire,and the other part that you call ionic chamber,it seams to me a choque Micro Henry used in transistor radios.Better you ask to Esteban,but i´m sure its not Ionic chamber:nono:

Best regards

Isn't ionic chamber.

[Esteban]

I´m sure this is true,and like i tell to you i have a prototipe ,russian device"Zelattoy",its very similar to this one you show on photo.
Maybe it works with the same MD tecnology from 1959,used BFO beat frequency oscilator.
I´m sure very soon someone will increase the performance on this machines and make true LRL with enough power to locate treasure 1km or more,and not just the limited 20 or 30m...
Its also possible to use this device to locate buried explosive mines. And it was more developed because of this purpose.

Best regards

The first use transmitter-receiver. Tube 6L6.

[Esteban]

This is a very stable BFO, very stable, pistol. This was in 1987.

[putrechigi]

Hello everyone wanted to ask a question that I think many people are facts, those who, like me, do not understand very electronics should do something to hope one day to have a lrl that works? Because if it keeps on its discoveries others sheltered behind SECRET ...................

[Fred]

Its also possible to use this device to locate buried explosive mines. And it was more developed because of this purpose.
So why are people risking their life to locate and defuse mines,using conventional detectors, and not those miraculous lrl?

[Qiaozhi]

So why are people risking their life to locate and defuse mines,using conventional detectors, and not those miraculous lrl?
Would you risk your life in a minefield with one of these LRL devices?
I get goosebumps thinking about it... :eek:

Although I suppose it does cut down on the number of customer complaints. :lol:

[Fred]

Hi Putrechigi,
I am sure an intelligent,active,maybe multi-frequency radar-like based circuit could be able to detect the signature or a metal.But heavy research and developing investement would be necessary,and miniaturization a problem.
IMHO.
Regards,
Fred.

[Fred]

Would you risk your life in a minefield with one of these LRL devices?
I wouldn´t , but Morgan says so.
Aparently customers complains has not been a problem so far...:)
regards!,
Fred.

[Qiaozhi]

I wouldn´t , but Morgan says so.
Aparently customers complains has not been a problem so far...:)
regards!,
Fred.
The only trouble with this sales approach, is the lack of repeat business. :lol:

[Esteban]

So why are people risking their life to locate and defuse mines,using conventional detectors, and not those miraculous lrl?

"Miraculous LRL" can be locate conductive metal buried for long time. Today, only the spring is metal in modern mines. But you can locate it by the molecular signature of the explosives, no with the "miraculous LRL". :D

[Fred]

Esteban,
There is still an enormous quantity of the old metallic mines.They dont use LRL for those.
And what do you say about diamond detection claimed for those detectors?? I hope you are not going to tell me diamond has a metallic-like response because of pure carbon constitution...
Whats wrong with the word "miraculous"? nobody can scientificaly explain how they work,what science cannot explain is miraculous.:)
Fred.

[Esteban]

Fred,

There are a patented technique about a micropower radar for to detect landmines. I remember was posted by me.

https://www.llnl.gov/str/pdfs/01_96.2.pdf

Is strange. If carbon is conductive, why can't be detected? Maybe the same reason why you can't detect whith classic MD?

[Morgan]

The only trouble with this sales approach, is the lack of repeat business. :lol:
There are not complains from costumers. This device is experimental prototipe,and since the land mines recently dont use any kind of metal,this projet is useless for army.But is usefull to use like a long distance MD.Unfortunly this device have dificult to pinpoint targets when they are near,but the important its IT WORKS!!!
I will put a photo of this strange device...

Regards

[Fred]

Esteban,
thanks for the PDF,
interesting!
Fred.

[nelson]

Esteban, to clear to everyone about LRL if work or not, why you don´t post a schematic that really works? I saw lots of pictures of you and friends that shows thru the years, pictures of divises that looks very similar (pistol form). To all this you gave credits that works. So why don´t you post schematics, taking in mind that this forum is for people that whants to share circuits, investigate, construct and not for selling technologies.
Plase take this has on a good way, cause you have achive the expirence about this, but i think that most people are tired of reading post of this, but finilly no one gets something that really works.
I m 90% convince that this technology works, but we need something that really convince us.
Best regards
Nelson



This is a very stable BFO, very stable, pistol. This was in 1987.

[Morgan]

I open an LRL and saw inside the electronics.Its from Paraguai.I look at the radio ferrite inside wood box.
I´m sure Esteban know very well how it works ;-)http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/Direcional AlonsoI have photos of this device but it didn´t help someone to build one of this...

[Esteban]

I open an LRL and saw inside the electronics.Its from Paraguai.I look at the radio ferrite inside wood box.
I´m sure Esteban know very well how it works ;-)http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/Direcional AlonsoI have photos of this device but it didn´t help someone to build one of this...

No, I don't know about what you're talking.

The link isn't useful for metal detecting, or yes???

[Morgan]

Hello Esteban

Don´t worry about this device from Paraguai(no te preocupes que no va a publicar el esquematico). One of my friends buy this device from Alonso (the inventor)in Paraguai,its more stable than Mineoro. He have this machine not long time ago.Unfortunly until now he find near nothing,Anyway i think it works. Its identic to this one you are using in photo,maybe inside as diferent tecnology from your device...
Today we was searching near an old house and find a lot of jewlry from 19 century(medals,rings,golden bracelet),this house belong to very rich family and we get permition for searching.The machine who find most of targets its this russian prototipe MD and distance for one ring 10m. Alonso device unfortunly find nothing,so my friend find his targets with another device,maybe he don´t know how to use Alonso LRL...
Next weekend we will try Mineoro DC2008,FG80,DC2006,PDC210 and Alonso pistol detector, near gold mine where its easy to find gold nugets with normal MD.Its far away but we go.
I will be very proud to put in this Forum the performance results of this devices...
Esteban,just for curiousity,one of your devices, you put photo of electronic box here,works with the same radio ferrit,you mention FM radio. its very similar to Alonso LRL pistol tecnology,or the same principle used since 1959. So i dont understand why you tell me this radio ferret(coil around magneto) its something you dont know about it.

Regards

[Esteban]

Esteban,just for curiousity,one of your devices, you put photo of electronic box here,works with the same radio ferrit,you mention FM radio. its very similar to Alonso LRL pistol tecnology,or the same principle used since 1959. So i dont understand why you tell me this radio ferret(coil around magneto) its something you dont know about it.

Regards

No, no the same. The ferrite is part of the AM section of the radio, but you can't use AM today.

[Morgan]

Ok,muchas gracias,but it doesn´t mather if its AM or FM. My friend only wants to know if realy works or not,because he pays big money for it,so next week we go to this GOLD mine.Imagine all this GOLD underground several milion years ago,i´m sure there are a lot of microvolts around this spots,isnt it ?!!!
Unfortunly we don´t have any ICONOS to share performance on this gold field...

Hasta la vista:cool:

[Esteban]

Ok,muchas gracias,but it doesn´t mather if its AM or FM. My friend only wants to know if realy works or not,because he pays big money for it,so next week we go to this GOLD mine.Imagine all this GOLD underground several milion years ago,i´m sure there are a lot of microvolts around this spots,isnt it ?!!!
Unfortunly we don´t have any ICONOS to share performance on this gold field...

Hasta la vista:cool:

No depth has.

I'll test an Iconos of a friend maybe since January. I'll reveive in December the 20-30th, but at end of the year is impossible for me try it.

The old Alonso's coil system based on BFO and I/B has distance and depth, but you must be put in the limit the sensibility or/and zero control adjustment.

[Geo]

Morgan, can you give us photo of the LRL??
The Russian detector is LRL or MD. Because 10m for a ring is long distance for MD.

[roberts]

First it was Hung with Mineoro advertisements...than a short lull...than again Hung appeared with preamble about new,huge project...of course - deeply secret! :razz:
At the end some "Iconos" appeared with "brand" new science...??? Coincidense??? I dont think so!
We all (non americans,non english) do speak english so so...but just look Hung and Iconos...?!; Their english is excellent! Bravo guys!
Actually i do pay attention on slice details in every post. Generally i do not pay much of attention on main idea in some post...but in slice details!
As e.e. i work so many years in various fields, now i do have special job and hobby to investigate some things more detailed. But my hobby is to investigate human behavior mostly.
Maybe i am paranoic, maybe not..but i think there is some connection beetwen Hung's bust on this forum and sudden appearance of Iconos here?!
First they took some huge money with mineoro frauds...now when truth spreaded arround and market is lost...let's try to conquer it and earn more money with quite different approach! Why not?
In the meantime "we" earned some friendship in Greece....why dont we disslocate "thing" from Brasil to ....let's say Greece? Hah?
Enough will be if "we" catch few more naives and earn 30-40 000 euros more! Nice bussiness! Isnt it?:lol:
"Scientific" explanations, Iconos gave in other thread are nothing but bull!
Well english,various facts collected randomly from internet....BINGO! Good enough to persuade a few "customers" more...
When this Iconos "project" bust and expire...."we" will take short pause,rest and than lull another bright, revolutionary LRL....! We will place our company in some other country...let's say Sweden! Why not?:razz:
It is so easy to find strong connections here, between some people and some interests....you only have to pay attention on details!
Read "between lines..."!
Nice try guys! You are busted!

[hung]

Morgan, tell me, are you from Spain?

[Fred]

In the meantime "we" earned some friendship in Greece....why dont we disslocate "thing" from Brasil to ....let's say Greece? Hah?
... We will place our company in some other country...let's say Sweden! Why not?:razz:
Roberts,one detail:Greece is Europe, (CEE), so it should not be such a good idea to do this business in Europe.They dont play with taxes and fraud .But wait! Iconos is in Chyprus! Not really CEE but close enought ,more like a fiscal paradise.What a coincidence!
Fred

[Max]

Roberts,one detail:Greece is Europe, (CEE), so it should not be such a good idea to do this business in Europe.They dont play with taxes and fraud .But wait! Iconos is in Chyprus! Not really CEE but close enought ,more like a fiscal paradise.What a coincidence!
Fred

Hi,
maybe the best is Grand Cayman... close enough to Brazil... and without taxes... where nobody there look at how money are made :lol:...or better for Europe at Principality of Monaco , that's a real paradise for these kind of stuff!

All that places seems cool enough to keep some good aura to not-workable devices... too... that's why so often also big brands choose Monaco to show some new (and probably fake) product: think at cars ! Some manifactures go there cause of the formula1 gp etc etc but others, like often low brands, choose that place for the positive image their product will gain by that place ... not the product quality itself. That's truly ridiculos. ;)

Kind regards,
Max

[Morgan]

Morgan, can you give us photo of the LRL??
The Russian detector is LRL or MD. Because 10m for a ring is long distance for MD.
Hello

Very soon i will put photo and possibly the shematic.I will do my best with schematic because i know very little about electronics. This device was developed to locate concentrations of land mines at distance.Now the explosive mines are made in other material,so its useless for army. This device its realy dificult to find,because only a few was made,and i know it use MD tecnology,not ionic or electrostatic.

Kind regards

[Fred]

Hi Morgan,
Thanks!
Dont worry, if you take good pictures we can probably reverse-engineer it.
Fred.

[Morgan]

Morgan, tell me, are you from Spain?
Hello Hung

It doesnt mather if i´m from Spain or from Jamaica:D
I´have 25 years of experience with METAL DETECTORS,so i´m not a beginner as you think:nono:
I have friends all over the world,good TREASURE HUNTERS,the elite of TH´s its from Germany,and i know them very well.Please,before call me MD BEGINNER think twice...

Regards

[Morgan]

First it was Hung with Mineoro advertisements...than a short lull...than again Hung appeared with preamble about new,huge project...of course - deeply secret! :razz:
At the end some "Iconos" appeared with "brand" new science...??? Coincidense??? I dont think so!
We all (non americans,non english) do speak english so so...but just look Hung and Iconos...?!; Their english is excellent! Bravo guys!
Actually i do pay attention on slice details in every post. Generally i do not pay much of attention on main idea in some post...but in slice details!
As e.e. i work so many years in various fields, now i do have special job and hobby to investigate some things more detailed. But my hobby is to investigate human behavior mostly.
Maybe i am paranoic, maybe not..but i think there is some connection beetwen Hung's bust on this forum and sudden appearance of Iconos here?!
First they took some huge money with mineoro frauds...now when truth spreaded arround and market is lost...let's try to conquer it and earn more money with quite different approach! Why not?
In the meantime "we" earned some friendship in Greece....why dont we disslocate "thing" from Brasil to ....let's say Greece? Hah?
Enough will be if "we" catch few more naives and earn 30-40 000 euros more! Nice bussiness! Isnt it?:lol:
"Scientific" explanations, Iconos gave in other thread are nothing but bull!
Well english,various facts collected randomly from internet....BINGO! Good enough to persuade a few "customers" more...
When this Iconos "project" bust and expire...."we" will take short pause,rest and than lull another bright, revolutionary LRL....! We will place our company in some other country...let's say Sweden! Why not?:razz:
It is so easy to find strong connections here, between some people and some interests....you only have to pay attention on details!
Read "between lines..."!
Nice try guys! You are busted!
Maybe if they put Mineoro factory in China this LRL devices become less expensive,and maybe with better pinpoint :D

[Fred]

Maybe if they put Mineoro factory in China this LRL devices become less expensive,and maybe with better pinpoint :D

That makes me think:Chineses often reverse-enginner, improve then sell cheaper a lot of devices.why the did not do so with those LRL´s ?

[joecoin]

That makes me think:Chineses often reverse-enginner, improve then sell cheaper a lot of devices.why the did not do so with those LRL´s ?


Here you go:

http://www.asianproducts.com/showproducts.php?item_id=P11760829241259168&pic=big

[Fred]

Here you go:

http://www.asianproducts.com/showproducts.php?item_id=P11760829241259168&pic=big

Man, that´s sad.Usually they were smart enought to reproduce and improve usefull stuff.
Fred

[hung]

Hello Hung

It doesnt mather if i´m from Spain or from Jamaica:D
I´have 25 years of experience with METAL DETECTORS,so i´m not a beginner as you think:nono:
I have friends all over the world,good TREASURE HUNTERS,the elite of TH´s its from Germany,and i know them very well.Please,before call me MD BEGINNER think twice...

Regards

I wonder why keeping your country of origin and your id, is that secret.

Actually, sorry, but I know who you are and don't understand why you did not reply my email and why you chose to act like that after many contacts we had last year. And you're right. If you are this person, you are no beginner. I'm still waiting your contact.

[Morgan]

Sorry,i´m not this person...

[Geo]

Hi Morgan:).
If it is difficult to reverse the schematic of the detector, send here some photos and we will reverse the schematic. I am interesting for the Russian workable MD and not for the non workable LRL from Alonso
Regards:)

[Geo]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

If somebody reads for first time this Capital it will be astonished.
It will meet certain fanatic accusers of mjneoro which simultaneously make also very big publicity:razz:.
Yes.... well you read. The last years who dealt with the Mjneoro? .... Rather noone, or minimal. So much pages that you wrote accuse that it does not work, you advertized also it , and you again put in the "game".. Do not ask schematics:nono: (after it does not work)...... do not report the name:nono:...... and you do not answer:nono: on issues with regard to this company. Only thus you will convince that all what you make they is not for advertising reasons (in favour the company). They is not reliable instruments....... you do not waste your time with them:nono:. I believe that you have more serious things you Do.
Best Regards:):)

[Fred]

Hi Geo,

I dont agree completely,
i think if someone advertise and nobody tells it is all lies, any visistor here will think it is true.
It is too easy that way.
Regards,
Fred.

[hung]

Sorry,i´m not this person...

You maybe right no this.
You are this person's friend.
Yes, you were there at Mineoro in december 2005.
You mind if I divulge your country?
If you do, I won't but honestly, there's no problem at all in my opinion.

I just don't understand why you keep all this secret. Maybe you found a big treasure with your DC and don't want to get caught?:D

By the way you used to own a DC2006, didn't you?

I respect your experience as a metal detectorist, but still hold my opinion you still need more practice with the Mineoros. Your critics towards the detector would only justify if you did not know about the phenomena and the best times to detect. In sum, knowing exactly what you're doing.

Best regards.

[Morgan]

You maybe right no this.
You are this person's friend.
Yes, you were there at Mineoro in december 2005.
You mind if I divulge your country?
If you do, I won't but honestly, there's no problem at all in my opinion.

I just don't understand why you keep all this secret. Maybe you found a big treasure with your DC and don't want to get caught?:D

By the way you used to own a DC2006, didn't you?

I respect your experience as a metal detectorist, but still hold my opinion you still need more practice with the Mineoros. Your critics towards the detector would only justify if you did not know about the phenomena and the best times to detect. In sum, knowing exactly what you're doing.

Best regards.
Hello

It doesnt matter who i am or where i live.
A clever and sucessfull TH should stay like this...
I was in Brazil not in December 2005.
I´m disapointed with my LRL Mineoro ,because i already make enough tests and my conclusion mineoro is an useless device,anyway next week i will try again mineoro devices, in gold mine,the weather its fantastic,the humidity ok,so its just to make shure about i´m rigth and mineoro wrong.We will see if i find some nuggets or not,with Mineoro...
Each device will be tested ,and signals marked.Each LRL will work 3 times in the same place,to make sure not give randomic signals. In the end i will chek all this spots with my SD2200D.We will see if Hung are rigth or wrong about Mineoro performance to find gold...Some years ago i was there and find some nuggets with my PI MD,i´m sure there are much more...

Regards

[Morgan]

Hi Morgan:).
If it is difficult to reverse the schematic of the detector, send here some photos and we will reverse the schematic. I am interesting for the Russian workable MD and not for the non workable LRL from Alonso
Regards:)
Hello

I will put photos of this device very soon.
How you know this LRL Alonso not locate gold? We will see about the test results near gold mine next week.
Tell me about this Iconos,it works with only gold & silver ?
Unfortunly russian device its not perfect and work erratic near salt wather and is discrimination its not perfect,but it works.Maybe some E.engineer in this forum can put better performance on this device if i put schematic here...

Kind regards

[digital logic]

Dear morgan,
Please don't forget the vlf activity.
Please you must try to fint a vlf receiver with s-meter and do the tests when the signals are stronger.
We waiting for news.

[Morgan]

Dear morgan,
Please don't forget the vlf activity.
Please you must try to fint a vlf receiver with s-meter and do the tests when the signals are stronger.
We waiting for news.
Hello

This test will be for me the final prove about Mineoro LRL devices.
I promise to tell only the true about Mineoro performace on this gold field.
I hope to find something who change my opinion about LRL...

Best regards

[hung]

Hello

It doesnt matter who i am or where i live.
A clever and sucessfull TH should stay like this...
I was in Brazil not in December 2005.
I´m disapointed with my LRL Mineoro ,because i already make enough tests and my conclusion mineoro is an useless device,anyway next week i will try again mineoro devices, in gold mine,the weather its fantastic,the humidity ok,so its just to make shure about i´m rigth and mineoro wrong.We will see if i find some nuggets or not,with Mineoro...
Each device will be tested ,and signals marked.Each LRL will work 3 times in the same place,to make sure not give randomic signals. In the end i will chek all this spots with my SD2200D.We will see if Hung are rigth or wrong about Mineoro performance to find gold...Some years ago i was there and find some nuggets with my PI MD,i´m sure there are much more...

Regards

Yeah, maybe not in december as this person went there twice, probably on an other date. But I know you are yes.

Also, you are awfully mistaken on this. It's not a matter if I'm wrong or not. There are dozens of Mineoro users who are sucessful and you know that. I personally know several of them and I can provide you email and telephone contact if you ever desire to talk to them. If you haven't suceed so far, is it the detector's fault? For many times I found nothing with Minelab alone during hours of search. Is it the detector's fault?

As it seems you know Alonso, you probably also are aware he found a tiny gold nugget in a mine at the time he was still testing the FG80, at a depth no other regular MD his team had could detect.
I found many gold veins in my last trip to central region of Brazil, even at night time. In fact, finding gold veins in this region is done almost a regular daily basis as the atmosphere is highly ionized and the weather is optimum.
You probably don't know anything about it as you don't live here.

So with all respect, your report will be absolutely useless to me due to the reasons and the users I mentioned above. Maybe useful for people here who do not know the detector. And for these people, if you don't suceed, your negative feedback could probably mean the detector failed alone, but in reality som many variables could have been present, including there was no gold where the detector was used, don't you agree?

This is funny. A friend of mine when wishing to buy a particular garret model, went to a MD forum and when he saw only one negative feedback of a user who still had not had sucess with it yet, he got insecure.
People are like that.

PS. I have absolutely no conection to Mineoro. Be this comercial or financially.
I wish I had tough. It would be a really welcome extra money.:D
Iit's up to you believe it or not.

[Geo]

Hi Geo,

I dont agree completely,
i think if someone advertise and nobody tells it is all lies, any visistor here will think it is true.
It is too easy that way.
Regards,
Fred.

Hi Fred
I Agree with you simply I spoke for the opposite case where we speak and speak for the same subject certain years now.
Finally maybe it is clearly subject of personal perception
Regards:)

[roberts]

Hi Geo,

I dont agree completely,
i think if someone advertise and nobody tells it is all lies, any visistor here will think it is true.
It is too easy that way.
Regards,
Fred.

Ehm, Fred, you were'nt here in the past. At the time a i used "RObert" nick. I posted so many posts on that subject. First few posts were calm and polite. Later when i faced rude offends and disrespect from "some" people i started also to give back to them same way. Even more. I "loudmouhted" arround and posted offends,funny pictures and various things...just to bug "then" more and puch them either to stop with nonsences and crap advertisements, either to strart saying more truth here...
And, you know how that ended?
I was banned for good. No more RObert here. After a while i was pushed (by administrator) to accept to act polite here and stop with nonsences. He gave me last chance to come here again (under this nick) and stay as member.
So i accepted.
One thing i cant resent to Carl is the fact that he also fought much against same evil here. Of course on his,more polite and democratic way.
So you now have me (rude,unpolite,undemocratic,dictator) on one side and you can take Carl (polite,pretty democratic,to silent)...We both fought on our own ways against same evil and gained.......nothing! Evil is still here. Even more powerfull than it was. You have Max and Quiaozhi. They have more "scientific" approach when dealing with evil. Yet without succes...
So i gave up. My efforts gave me nothing more than certain antagonism from some mebers here with Carl in front of all of them...I lost at the end.
Best way to deal with THE EVIL is to discregard it and PAY NO ATTENTION on it AT ALL.
Regards!

[Qiaozhi]

Ehm, Fred, you were'nt here in the past. At the time a i used "RObert" nick. I posted so many posts on that subject. First few posts were calm and polite. Later when i faced rude offends and disrespect from "some" people i started also to give back to them same way. Even more. I "loudmouhted" arround and posted offends,funny pictures and various things...just to bug "then" more and puch them either to stop with nonsences and crap advertisements, either to strart saying more truth here...
And, you know how that ended?
I was banned for good. No more RObert here. After a while i was pushed (by administrator) to accept to act polite here and stop with nonsences. He gave me last chance to come here again (under this nick) and stay as member.
So i accepted.
One thing i cant resent to Carl is the fact that he also fought much against same evil here. Of course on his,more polite and democratic way.
So you now have me (rude,unpolite,undemocratic,dictator) on one side and you can take Carl (polite,pretty democratic,to silent)...We both fought on our own ways against same evil and gained.......nothing! Evil is still here. Even more powerfull than it was. You have Max and Quiaozhi. They have more "scientific" approach when dealing with evil. Yet without succes...
So i gave up. My efforts gave me nothing more than certain antagonism from some mebers here with Carl in front of all of them...I lost at the end.
Best way to deal with THE EVIL is to discregard it and PAY NO ATTENTION on it AT ALL.
Regards!
Hi Roberts,

I can understand you becoming disillusioned in the battle against evil, but you are not alone. We must continue in our quest to rid the world of this pseudoscientific nonsense. In fact, there are more skeptics here than proponents, so why should it be hard to disagree with these cr*p advertisements. Most of them are an insult to even an idiot's intelligence.
How we are expected to simply accept these outlandish claims about detecting gold from miles away, just beggars belief!
Whenever some nonsense is posted here, we should all respond, otherwise the wallet mining will continue unabated.

[J_Player]

They have more "scientific" approach when dealing with evil. Yet without succes...
So i gave up. My efforts gave me nothing more than certain antagonism from some mebers here with Carl in front of all of them...I lost at the end.
Best way to deal with THE EVIL is to discregard it and PAY NO ATTENTION on it AT ALL.
Regards!
We must continue in our quest to rid the world of this pseudoscientific nonsense. In fact, there are more skeptics here than proponents, so why should it be hard to disagree with these cr*p advertisements. Most of them are an insult to even an idiot's intelligence.

I must disagree to some extent. Any educated tehcnical person with a normal mind can easily see the folly in these fraudulent pseudoscience claims. For the majority of the readers in this forum, The stupid postings of uneducated non-technical pseudoscientists makes for good entertaining reading. How often have we had a good laugh at the likes of hung, when we discovered he made up fake data to try to make it appear that Carl's tests are wrong, while Myron Evans' crackpot theories are correct? How often have we demonstrated that his Mineoro claims were false and made him back-pedal and eat his words? The average educated reader in this forum is capable of determining the difference between made-up fake data, mythical stories of fake testing, and real scientific testing that can be backed up and demonstrated repeatedly. It is my opinion that there is no threat that the belief in stupid science theories contradicting known and proven electronics and physics will ever destroy the progress that has been made by the brilliant scientists of this century.

The fact is we need some stupid ideas that don't work in order to provide a background to contrast brilliant ideas that do work. This is how we determine what is good and what is bad. By having some half-baked crackpots and their diatribe, we can easily compare the relative value of the technologies that excel. This applies not only to crackpot theories, but to the field testing as well. The physical results are the final proof of the pudding.

The only real danger of what you are calling "evil" is that many readers are not technical people and they may believe the rantings of people who try to make it appear they are surrounded by respected physicists and engineers. These readers cannot be blamed if they are deceived by the technical-sounding facade. If they actually believe these pseudoscientists are giving them workable solutions, many may spend large amounts of money they cannot afford to buy expensive apparatus that will not find treasure for them. How many people have you seen post that their expensive LRL does not work, and they wish they never bought it, and can't get their money back? These are the people who are really hurt by the misinformation propagated by a few individuals who make false claims about these expensive contraptions.*

I suspect that for every member who posts a message in this forum, there are maybe 10 non-members reading these posts just to try to learn what works and what does not. These are the people who most need to hear the opinions of the educated electronics and physics scholars who know better than to believe fake testing that never happened, and fake theories that violate the basic laws of physics and electronics.

And this is the reason it is important not to ignore claims that are obviously false, made by people who refuse to back up their claims in a way that can be verified.

Best wishes,
J_P


*Not all LRL proponents make false claims about their apparatus. Most have given very honest field reports. There are only a very few who knowingly exaggerate or lie about their LRL experiences, with emphasis on promoting a particular brand of LRL.

[Fred]

Ehm, Fred, you were'nt here in the past. At the time a i used "RObert" nick. I posted so many posts on that subject. First few posts were calm and polite. Later when i faced rude offends and disrespect from "some" people i started also to give back to them same way. Even more. I "loudmouhted" arround and posted offends,funny pictures and various things...just to bug "then" more and puch them either to stop with nonsences and crap advertisements, either to strart saying more truth here...
And, you know how that ended?
I was banned for good. No more RObert here. After a while i was pushed (by administrator) to accept to act polite here and stop with nonsences. He gave me last chance to come here again (under this nick) and stay as member.
So i accepted.
One thing i cant resent to Carl is the fact that he also fought much against same evil here. Of course on his,more polite and democratic way.
So you now have me (rude,unpolite,undemocratic,dictator) on one side and you can take Carl (polite,pretty democratic,to silent)...We both fought on our own ways against same evil and gained.......nothing! Evil is still here. Even more powerfull than it was. You have Max and Quiaozhi. They have more "scientific" approach when dealing with evil. Yet without succes...
So i gave up. My efforts gave me nothing more than certain antagonism from some mebers here with Carl in front of all of them...I lost at the end.
Best way to deal with THE EVIL is to discregard it and PAY NO ATTENTION on it AT ALL.
Regards!

Hi roberts,

As in every conflict, if you use the same (or worse) behaviour than you oponent´s, you become "criticable" too, and loose respect from everybody.

If we have enought tecnhical knowledge not to buy crap,whe can decide to keep quiet and not tell others, but when i see stupid individual wanting to steal money, i do my best to give my opinion about the devices they sell.I respect any indiviudual,i am no one to decide what other should do or not, but i will continue to say the truth about tecnhical facts or phrases or people when i can.
And yes i have read posts from a banned RObert , i wondered why you were so different :) . Dont you think your posts have more weight now that they are polite?
Best regards,
Fred.

[roberts]

Yes. All 3 of you have good points here. Very true and right.
Very important thing i forget to say is that i really,really have nothing personally against Hung,Dell,Esteban and few others. I swear on this.
But i do have a lot against most of their claims here, a lot!
Just as you noticed, i do beleive that 90% of members here are fullly capable to distinguish between true and false. Yet persistent,resident posting same old nonsences, really can brake man nervs, from time to time. Do they take us for idiots, for real???
After all this is only a forum,based on a good will. Not most important thing in my life. I took it very seriously from the beginning - my mistake.
Regards!

[Qiaozhi]

Very important thing i forget to say is that i really,really have nothing personally against Hung,Dell,Esteban and few others. I swear on this.
But i do have a lot against most of their claims here, a lot!

Yes - I agree with this. It is the claims that we disagree with, although (quite often) the LRL proponents do take it as a personal attack. Of course, when someone takes it personally, it usually means they have been caught telling a lie. If I owned an LRL that actually worked, I certainly wouldn't for one minute care what anyone here thought. I'd be too busy finding gold. Even if I was a manufacturer of such a tool, I still wouldn't care, because it's ability to find gold would speak for itself.

I must disagree to some extent.
I'm not quite sure what you mean. Are you saying that we should encourage this pseudoscientific gobbledygook to be posted here, purely for entertainment purposes? I must admit that most of it is very amusing. ;)

[J_Player]

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Are you saying that we should encourage this pseudoscientific gobbledygook to be posted here, purely for entertainment purposes? I must admit that most of it is very amusing. ;)Of course pseudoscientific gobbledygook is welcome here. This is a forum for anyone in the world to post their ideas -- extraterrestrials too, I believe. Carl's intro post cautions people to be prepared to back up your claims if you make an extraordinary claim in the remote sensing section, so there is no harm in telling "tall tales" and trying to pass them off as reality. There will always be intelligent people who will laugh and challenge the "extraordinary claims". In the end, only the claims that can be backed up by repeatable demonstrations will be believed. The rest of the fake BS will fall into the category of "more amusing idiots playing around".

I don't think we should encourage pseudoscientific gobbledygook, but let's look at it for what it is. It is a fascinating form of entertainment that opens our eyes to how some people cling to superstitions, much as early tribal members believed in the science of witch doctors. Today's version is riddled with pseudoscience rather than potions and tales of evil spirits (with the exception of Sharky's concern for jins who move treasures in the ground). The people who try to pass off pseudoscience as an explanation to convince others to buy expensive junk electronics have been invariably exposed as frauds. If Carl were to ban pseudoscience posts from the forum, then these perpetrators would seek other forums to fool their victims rather than coming here where there are ample educated technicians to debunk their deception. But the biggest reason to allow these idiots to post their diatribe is for the amusement factor sought out by the majority of the readers here.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Of course pseudoscientific gobbledygook is welcome here. This is a forum for anyone in the world to post their ideas -- extraterrestrials too, I believe. Carl's intro post cautions people to be prepared to back up your claims if you make an extraordinary claim in the remote sensing section, so there is no harm in telling "tall tales" and trying to pass them off as reality. There will always be intelligent people who will laugh and challenge the "extraordinary claims". In the end, only the claims that can be backed up by repeatable demonstrations will be believed. The rest of the fake BS will fall into the category of "more amusing idiots playing around".

I don't think we should encourage pseudoscientific gobbledygook, but let's look at it for what it is. It is a fascinating form of entertainment that opens our eyes to how some people cling to superstitions, much as early tribal members believed in the science of witch doctors. Today's version is riddled with pseudoscience rather than potions and tales of evil spirits (with the exception of Sharky's concern for jins who move treasures in the ground). The people who try to pass of pseudoscience as an explanation to convince others to buy expensive junk electronics have been invariably exposed as frauds. If Carl were to ban pseudoscience posts from the forum, then these perpetrators would seek other forums to fool their victims rather than coming here where there are ample educated technicians to debunk their deception. But the biggest reason to allow these idiots to post their diatribe is for the amusement factor sought out by the majority of the readers here.

Best wishes,
J_P
Hi JP,

OK - I see what you're getting at now. Of course, we don't actually want to ban people posting their outlandish theories here, but they do need to be prepared to back up their claims. As I've said before - extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

[gold24h]

I have had no experiance with mineoro so i do not know if they work or not.I have tested three other commercial locators and they did not work for me.I truely beleive the equipment that esteban built and uses works,he has given a lot of clues in his posts and i know how to build the first part and i am building it now,the last stage of the electronic circuit i do not know how to build,i know what it is supposed to do but i do not have enough knoledge to build the circuit,maybe some day he will tell how to build the last part.

[putrechigi]

Morgan hello thanks for the contribution they bring to the forum:):), of course you are not as a person who has been realized that the bales and said he stopped scrivare the discussion that had opened the first ............ ...................:nono::nono:

[Morgan]

Initially thanks for invitation.
For mineoro experiments we suggest at first a small modification at the free loop around the electrostatic chamberon the board of the machine.
We have seen in that when you replace the resistor and the capacitors at the ends of the loop with a variable capacitor 10-60 pf the reaction of the machine is sharper.
Using a garage telecontol transmitter tuned around 390 mhz we tune the capacitor until mineoro beeps.
This will help the rf sensitivity of the machine.
We have noted that successful target identification comes when three parameters are pressed.

VLF activity monitored by a vlf receiver between 20-70 khz must be hi.(not storms or whistles, but radio frequency hi propagation and signals).
Humidity around 35 % .
Electrostatic electricity on the atmosphere at max. (Cloudy sky before rain. Some sunny days that electrostatic charges are foul. E.g north wind for some hours and then stops).At these conditions mineoro always works.
The most important parameter is the vlf background .
Somebody says that: when the atmosphere electricity increases comes simultaneously with vlf better level signals.
We also have connected a large (1000 turns 1m diameter) coil to oscilloscope above the target.
The result was a noisy figure.
When some repeatable sparks were appeared on the screen the mineoro detected the target.

Maybe the concept is as follows:
Around the target is constructed by the years a cold electrostatic foam of plasma.
This normally is neutral. Any cosmic ray or hot neutron or any strong radiation disturbs the balance and produces Coulomb explosion.
The coulomb explosions generates alpha ,beta- (SPARKS) and positrons emissions. The positrons are non-stable and they are transformed in a two-photon emission in very short time.
We have detected small targets at the above conditions .
When the machine stopped detecting We checked the manufacturers
antenna rod .
Seaking the antenna rod above the target the machine products beeps synchronus
to the antenna movements at a distance of ten meters.
Generally in Greece we have low vlf signal levels and the machine works for short periods and for a lot of days it may be dead.
We have tried an additional coil of six turns around the external box of the wood ,no were connected. It increases vlf reception and the distance reaction but it destroys the directional ability of the machine.
We have not found a bigger and deeper target. All targets were small and near the surface (coins and jewellery).
That’s all for moment.

Best regards
Digital logic
Hello

Hello my friend,i´m sorry to disapoint you with mineoro lrl tests near gold mine.
All devices dc2006,2008,fg80,pdc210 give randomic signals in all the tests and never in the same place,only randomic siglals,all cheked with metal detector sd2200d pulse induction.
The pistoldetektor beep two times in the same place and we found gold nugget but only 2m distance 10cm deep.
I would like to present people in this forum with shematic of this device,maybe someone here help me to give more power to this circuit...

Kind regards

[Morgan]

I have had no experiance with mineoro so i do not know if they work or not.I have tested three other commercial locators and they did not work for me.I truely beleive the equipment that esteban built and uses works,he has given a lot of clues in his posts and i know how to build the first part and i am building it now,the last stage of the electronic circuit i do not know how to build,i know what it is supposed to do but i do not have enough knoledge to build the circuit,maybe some day he will tell how to build the last part.
hello

i have the complete shematic of Esteban device. I want to share this with all forum members.
this device works but at short distance...

Kind regards

[Morgan]

Morgan, can you give us photo of the LRL??
The Russian detector is LRL or MD. Because 10m for a ring is long distance for MD.
hello
i have a look inside russian device and most of electronic components are painted,and its impossible to have acess to the antenna interior without damage it.With this device its possible to find not less than coin sized objets,so its useless for little nugget hunting.
By the way,this pistoldetektor works ok,we find gold nugget 2m distance 10 cm deep.
only with Esteban permition i will put schematic here...

Kind regards

[gold24h]

Hello Morgan,i would really like to see that schematic,if Esteban does not want you to post it maybee you could send it to my e-mail,i will not post the schematic if esteban does not want it posted.I live about thirty miles from two well documented treasures,one i narrowed down to a one square mile area.If i could find either one of the treasures my dream woud come true.