Carl MFD article ,5KHZ frequency ?

[aft_72005]

Hi to carl and all :)
In MFD article ,carl used 5khz frequency for gold prospecting .
Some of other commercials almost also using this frequency.
My questions now, can anybody tell me where are come 5 khz ?
How it calculated?
why don’t using 10 khz or 15khz or other range of frequency?
What is relation between this frequency with materials resonance frequency ?
Anybody know This relation formula ?
Regards.:)

[J_Player]

People who sell long range locators believe this is the correct frequency for gold. They determined this frequency by experimentation as near as I have been able to determine. Some people use lower frequencies, and say they are at some harmonic of the gold frequency that also works. Nobody has shown any physical property of gold that is linked to this 5000 Hz that I know of. It appears that many have adopted this frequency after following the earlier experimenters, but many use different frequencies which they claim work better.

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

While we are talking about MFD, I foud another LRL that looks very similar to some of the devices Carl shows in his project section. This Sumachine appears to be a copy of the Dell Omnitron or an older Vernell model, but with a LCD display and Nimh batteries. This company was started in 2004. http://www.sumachine.com/shs300.pdf

I guess I never noticed them before because they are not actively advertising their equupment, and their main web page shows they are in the business of supplying wholesale metal and plastic parts to industrial clients.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Carl-NC]

Hi to carl and all :)
In MFD article ,carl used 5khz frequency for gold prospecting .
Some of other commercials almost also using this frequency.
My questions now, can anybody tell me where are come 5 khz ?
How it calculated?
why don’t using 10 khz or 15khz or other range of frequency?
What is relation between this frequency with materials resonance frequency ?
Anybody know This relation formula ?
Regards.:)


I don't know exactly who came up with the 5kHz frequency for gold. Possibly Bill Morgan (BMI detectors). To my knowledge, it is not the result of any calculations, nor does it relate in any way to the NMR frequency.

Most likely, it was derived through experimental methods using known samples, and finding frequencies where dowsing rods reacted the strongest. Such experiments, where good scientific methods such as randomized blind testing are NOT used, produce results that are entirely subjective, and will vary wildly person-to-person. I have no doubt that whoever came up with 5kHz, would fail miserably to confirm that frequency in a randomized blind test.

Also, of the MFDs I've looked at, I've yet to see one that actually uses 5kHz for gold. Even stranger, I've yet to find any two models that use the same frequency for gold. Even models from the same manufacturer -- 3 from Dell and 2 from Vector Trek -- are different. And some of Dell's have a knob that vary the frequency all over the place. It's truly as if the frequency makes no difference whatsoever... and it doesn't. It's all just a big hoax.

- Carl

[Geo]

Hi to carl and all :)
In MFD article ,carl used 5khz frequency for gold prospecting .
Some of other commercials almost also using this frequency.
My questions now, can anybody tell me where are come 5 khz ?
How it calculated?
why don’t using 10 khz or 15khz or other range of frequency?
What is relation between this frequency with materials resonance frequency ?
Anybody know This relation formula ?
Regards.:)


MFD works very good with small and new buried objects. So it was easy to see at who frequency it works better for the gold... silver etc. All the guys that i know they use the 5000..... 5100 frequency for the gold (they say that it is more sensitive), but why between some manufacturers there is difference frequency?????? i don't know

[aft_72005]

hi Carl, J_Player:)

J_Player,thanks for this : http://www.sumachine.com/shs300.pdf (http://www.sumachine.com/shs300.pdf)
Carl, J_Player, I study molecular resonance frequency, found the formula
Which calculated resonance frequency, it has some parameters and one of that
Was intensity of magnetism field, in lab conditions magnetism field was variable.
NMR For silver approximately between 800-1500MHZ depended on magnetism field intensity .
Not any similarity and relation between 5KHZ and 1500MHZ, NMR happened for materials
in very high frequency ,
approximately in vhf and uhf bands .
Regards. :)

[J_Player]

I study molecular resonance frequency, found the formula Which calculated resonance frequency, it has some parameters and one of that Was intensity of magnetism field, in lab conditions magnetism field was variable. NMR For silver approximately between 800-1500MHZ depended on magnetism field intensityHi aft_72005,

Can you show where you found this formula so we can read it also?

Thank you,
J_P

[aft_72005]

HI Geo:) :) :)
Seem you have good practice with l rods .
Please more explain.and
I saw form TV in your country was happened fire
And burned big area of forest.
accept my regret .:cry::cry:
regards .

[aft_72005]

Hi J_Player:)
I am working now ,exactly presentation that book
when go back my home, probably tomorrow .
regards.

[J_Player]

Ok thank you aft_72005. If you give the name of the book and the name of the author who wrote it, then maybe we can find it on the internet. :)

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

hi Carl, J_Player:)

J_Player,thanks for this : http://www.sumachine.com/shs300.pdf (http://www.sumachine.com/shs300.pdf)
Carl, J_Player, I study molecular resonance frequency, found the formula
Which calculated resonance frequency, it has some parameters and one of that
Was intensity of magnetism field, in lab conditions magnetism field was variable.
NMR For silver approximately between 800-1500MHZ depended on magnetism field intensity .
Not any similarity and relation between 5KHZ and 1500MHZ, NMR happened for materials
in very high frequency ,
approximately in vhf and uhf bands .
Regards. :)

Real NMR is impossible to be made outside a controlled envirnment.
That's the sad news. :rolleyes:

[Max]

MFD works very good with small and new buried objects. So it was easy to see at who frequency it works better for the gold... silver etc. All the guys that i know they use the 5000..... 5100 frequency for the gold (they say that it is more sensitive), but why between some manufacturers there is difference frequency?????? i don't know

Hi Geo,
all MFD pistols and handy-gizmos proved, untill now, are just SCAM devices. Like the Quadro Traker, also MFD claimed.

ALL BS.

No TH-MFD device work. Even the principle of operation is a mixture of black magic frequencies and fantasies with science-fiction.

Quadro claimed that for years and sold units even to the FBI... then was sued by FBI and convicted.

Say everything for me.

Who say that 5KHz is the "frequency of gold" is a liar or just doesn't understand anything of what he's talking about.

The guys you know maybe are "dowsers"... and use the so called MFD to increase their ability.
I don't belive in dowsing... but saw something similar.

Kind regards,
Max

[Carl-NC]

The Facts About NMR



A common claim with MFD proponents is that "all elements have a natural frequency" and will either resonate with other like elements, or can be made to resonate with a properly tuned signal generator. MFD proponents often point to the fact that all elements have a property called "nuclear magnetic resonance" and, therefore, the concept of resonance is entirely scientific.

Yes, it is true that all elements have an NMR frequency. You can go to WebElements (http://www.webelements.com) and click on an element, then click the NMR link to the left side. For gold, you will find that the NMR frequency is 1.754000MHz, and that this entry includes the statement "relative to 1H = 100 (MHz)". What does this mean?

It turns out the NMR frequency for any given element is dependent on the static magnetic field the element is exposed to. For gold, the magnetic field that produces an NMR frequency of 1.754MHz is the same field that produces an NMR frequency of 100MHz for hydrogen.

What is this field? With a little effort, you will find the field strength to be roughly 2.35 Teslas. So for hydrogen, 2.35T yields an NMR frequency of 100MHz. 4.7T will result in an NMR frequency of 200MHz. In other words, the NMR frequency is proportional to the magnetic field.

What about the Earth's natural magnetic field? This varies from place-to-place, but 50 microTeslas (uT) is a fair average strength. So the magnetic field strength of 2.35T is a whopping 47,000 times stronger than the Earth's field. Working the other way, we can find that the NMR frequency of hydrogen exposed to the Earth's field is a mere 2.13kHz. And guess what? That's exactly the frequency we get from a proton precession magnetometer! Most PPM's use hydrogen-rich water as the precession medium, and it is the hydrogen that is doing the precessing. Variations in the Earth's field due to iron targets change the precession frequency, exactly because the NMR frequency varies with field strength.

So gold has an NMR frequency of 1.754MHz at 2.35T, which means at 50uT it will have an NMR frequency of only 37 Hz or so. So if any MFD were being true to the NMR property, it would use 37Hz for gold. Not 5kHz. Now, some MFD manufacturers talk about resonating elements at a harmonic (or, sometimes, a "sub-harmonic") frequency. Although 5kHz is roughly the 135th harmonic of 37Hz, it is far, far less efficient to try to resonate something at a harmonic rather than the fundamental. Anyone who has used 3rd overtone crystals is aware of this, and claiming resonance at the 135th harmonic is just plain absurd.

So now that we know what the real frequency of resonance should be, we can proceed with a gold detector, right? Not so fast. Let's go back to the proton mag. How does a PPM detect the precession frequency of water? Well, typically a small bottle of water is placed INSIDE a fairly hefty coil. The coil serves two purposes. First, water just sitting around has its molecules all randomly oriented, so that even if they were "resonating", there would be no net signal due to an overall cancelation of all the little signals. So the coil is hit with a large transient current, which generates a large magnetic field, which serves to align at least some of the water molecules. Then, with the transient field removed, the coil becomes a receiver to detect the very, very weak precession signal from the water.

So in order to utilize NMR, we need to "ping" the target to get it to precess, much like hitting a bell with a clapper. Then, we need a way to detect the precession signal, which is incredibly weak. With PPM, both of these are only accomplished when the water is INSIDE the coil. The same is true with hospital MRI machines... the patient is slid INSIDE a humongous coil.

In the end, the concept of trying to remotely resonate buried targets is just bogus. It is like trying to boil water with a microwave oven, by placing the water 100 meters from the oven, and then running the oven on a 9-volt battery. Ain't gonna happen.

- Carl

[hung]

The Facts About NMR









A common claim with MFD proponents is that "all elements have a natural frequency" and will either resonate with other like elements, or can be made to resonate with a properly tuned signal generator. MFD proponents often point to the fact that all elements have a property called "nuclear magnetic resonance" and, therefore, the concept of resonance is entirely scientific.

Yes, it is true that all elements have an NMR frequency. You can go to WebElements (http://www.webelements.com) and click on an element, then click the NMR link to the left side. For gold, you will find that the NMR frequency is 1.754000MHz, and that this entry includes the statement "relative to 1H = 100 (MHz)". What does this mean?

It turns out the NMR frequency for any given element is dependent on the static magnetic field the element is exposed to. For gold, the magnetic field that produces an NMR frequency of 1.754MHz is the same field that produces an NMR frequency of 100MHz for hydrogen.

What is this field? With a little effort, you will find the field strength to be roughly 2.35 Teslas. So for hydrogen, 2.35T yields an NMR frequency of 100MHz. 4.7T will result in an NMR frequency of 200MHz. In other words, the NMR frequency is proportional to the magnetic field.

What about the Earth's natural magnetic field? This varies from place-to-place, but 50 microTeslas (uT) is a fair average strength. So the magnetic field strength of 2.35T is a whopping 47,000 times stronger than the Earth's field. Working the other way, we can find that the NMR frequency of hydrogen exposed to the Earth's field is a mere 2.13kHz. And guess what? That's exactly the frequency we get from a proton precession magnetometer! Most PPM's use hydrogen-rich water as the precession medium, and it is the hydrogen that is doing the precessing. Variations in the Earth's field due to iron targets change the precession frequency, exactly because the NMR frequency varies with field strength.

So gold has an NMR frequency of 1.754MHz at 2.35T, which means at 50uT it will have an NMR frequency of only 37 Hz or so. So if any MFD were being true to the NMR property, it would use 37Hz for gold. Not 5kHz. Now, some MFD manufacturers talk about resonating elements at a harmonic (or, sometimes, a "sub-harmonic") frequency. Although 5kHz is roughly the 135th harmonic of 37Hz, it is far, far less efficient to try to resonate something at a harmonic rather than the fundamental. Anyone who has used 3rd overtone crystals is aware of this, and claiming resonance at the 135th harmonic is just plain absurd.

So now that we know what the real frequency of resonance should be, we can proceed with a gold detector, right? Not so fast. Let's go back to the proton mag. How does a PPM detect the precession frequency of water? Well, typically a small bottle of water is placed INSIDE a fairly hefty coil. The coil serves two purposes. First, water just sitting around has its molecules all randomly oriented, so that even if they were "resonating", there would be no net signal due to an overall cancelation of all the little signals. So the coil is hit with a large transient current, which generates a large magnetic field, which serves to align at least some of the water molecules. Then, with the transient field removed, the coil becomes a receiver to detect the very, very weak precession signal from the water.

So in order to utilize NMR, we need to "ping" the target to get it to precess, much like hitting a bell with a clapper. Then, we need a way to detect the precession signal, which is incredibly weak. With PPM, both of these are only accomplished when the water is INSIDE the coil. The same is true with hospital MRI machines... the patient is slid INSIDE a humongous coil.

In the end, the concept of trying to remotely resonate buried targets is just bogus. It is like trying to boil water with a microwave oven, by placing the water 100 meters from the oven, and then running the oven on a 9-volt battery. Ain't gonna happen.

- Carl

You presented some fairly correct info above, but some of them as well as the conclusions are mostly wrong. When you mix up the equation, not surprisingly you will get wrong and incorrect results, conclusions and aproaches. I will not be discussing this here, but your explanation on MFDs are incorrect and the other assumptions above don't apply.

[J_Player]

Thanks for the excellent explanation Carl. That pretty much tells the whole story about what is the gold NMR resonant frequency.

Your explanation also sheds some light on frequencies of other materials. I suppose if we wanted to learn the true resonant frequencies of materials like copper, lead, diamond, paper currency, semiprecious stones, etc, we would the scientists already know these frequencies and have published them in charts, which are likely to be something different than is advertised by LRL manufacturers, or frequencies generated in their circuitry.

For example, if we looked up the resonant frequency for diamond, I presume we would be looking for data on carbon NMR frequency in a 50 NT field. The question is: How would we determine if the carbon we found at this frequency is a diamond or a piece of charcoal, or part of a tree branch? Maybe we located some CO2 in exhaled air. If it were possible to sense the NMR frequency of carbon using a hand held locator in an open field, wouldn't a diamond be lost in an overwhelming amount of stray carbon found on much of the surface of the earth and in the air?

Also, it seems like it would be hard to detect anything without some high powered lab equipment. Hospital MRI machines are so powerful that they refuse to allow an MRI test on anyone who has ferrous metal fragments embedded in their body, for fear of causing injury in case the fragment was ripped loose by the intense magnetic field. Yet this field strength is necessary to make it possible to generate any kind of recognizable medical image.

This makes me wonder how a hand held device with battery power can locate the NMR of anything at distance, especially when the hand held locator is tuned to the wrong frequency.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

You can find these frequencies with Larmor's frequency calculator for elements. These varies according the magnetic field applied in any substance or element. OK.

With PPM, both of these are only accomplished when the water is INSIDE the coil. The same is true with hospital MRI machines... the patient is slid INSIDE a humongous coil.

Yes, but you forgett the possibility of irradiated a kind of laser-infrared beam (modulated) and collect the information regarding each substance.

I think seriously in other kind of frequency, the based on vibration of the molecules of each element, very precisse for each.

[J_Player]

Yes, but you forgett the possibility of irradiated a kind of laser-infrared beam (modulated) and collect the information regarding each substance.Hi Esteban,

Can you tell us more about these modulated irradiated laser-infrared beams?
This does not sound like magnetic resonance, but maybe magnetic resonance combined with something else?

Where do you find these beams, how can we sense them?
Do they come from buried objects, or do they come from all objects?
How strong is this beam signal?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Who say that 5KHz is the "frequency of gold" is a liar or just doesn't understand anything of what he's talking about.
The people that work with MFD (not me).

The guys you know maybe are "dowsers"... and use the so called MFD to increase their ability.
Yes with good results at fresh buried objects
I don't belive in dowsing... but saw something similar.
The same to me but i saw... saw.... saw
Kind regards,
Max

Carl wrote "In the end, the concept of trying to remotely resonate buried targets is just bogus. It is like trying to boil water with a microwave oven, by placing the water 100 meters from the oven, and then running the oven on a 9-volt battery. Ain't gonna happen"
Maybe......... but as i wrote that "MFD works very good with small and new buried objects" .......... it is true... Why?????? i don't know (Ohhh there is problem with old buried or very big objects, here is the problem ..... can't find exactly the center)
Regards

[Esteban]

Hi J_Player,

You emit a IR-laser or IR modulated in audio beam, NO A FIX BEAM in wich you insert the tone via a capacitor. No, you ON and OFF the IR diode at this tone frequency, can be 400 Hz. This tone (modulation) appears as a phase shift in a receiver system. I only try with IR, but sure IR-laser will be better, but much more expensive in comparation. Not for to measure temp, but this beam is like a precisse antenna in wich beam "travel" the phenomenom (because I try it only for old buried items, no for new) and dislocates the system. Also all bodies emit IR, metals in major quantity. But the question is: why I can't detect a person (wich emit IR) but yes a metal buried? What is the associated phenomenom inherent to this? Atomic vibration also? Is very complex!

[Qiaozhi]

When you mix up the equation, not surprisingly you will get wrong and incorrect results, conclusions and aproaches.
Yes - perfectly true, and no-one will disagree with that! :D

In fact, this is admirably demonstrated by MFDs. A complete confusion of ideas and concepts...:razz:

[Rudy]

You presented some fairly correct info above, but some of them as well as the conclusions are mostly wrong. When you mix up the equation, not surprisingly you will get wrong and incorrect results, conclusions and aproaches. I will not be discussing this here, but your explanation on MFDs are incorrect and the other assumptions above don't apply.

I wouldn't expect anything more informative from your response. To paraphrase:


Your initial facts and information are mostly correct.
However, you are aggregating these facts incorrectly and
arrive at an incorrect conclusion.

I know why you are incorrect, but I will not explain why.

Such petulance and arrogance. :barf:

[Carl-NC]

You presented some fairly correct info above, but some of them as well as the conclusions are mostly wrong. When you mix up the equation, not surprisingly you will get wrong and incorrect results, conclusions and aproaches. I will not be discussing this here, but your explanation on MFDs are incorrect and the other assumptions above don't apply.

Eh?

I'm wrong, but you're not willing to discuss it? Do you expect anyone to take your assertion seriously?

- Carl

[Carl-NC]

Yes, but you forgett the possibility of irradiated a kind of laser-infrared beam (modulated) and collect the information regarding each substance.

My post addressed only the misapplication of NMR to MFD. I don't doubt that there are other ways to detect distant compositions. Ferinstance, spectroscopy is used in astronomy to analyze the composition of stars and interstellar gasses, but this method requires light transmission through the object.

I think seriously in other kind of frequency, the based on vibration of the molecules of each element, very precisse for each.

Molecular vibration is dominated by NMR. Water molecules vibrate at the NMR frequency of hydrogen. Besides, objects like gold & diamonds are not molecular compounds, but rather atomic structures that have metallic or covalent bonding structures. So claiming that their "molecules" vibrate is meaningless.

- Carl

[Max]

You presented some fairly correct info above, but some of them as well as the conclusions are mostly wrong. When you mix up the equation, not surprisingly you will get wrong and incorrect results, conclusions and aproaches. I will not be discussing this here, but your explanation on MFDs are incorrect and the other assumptions above don't apply.

Hi,
Hung as always you try to disinformate people.

Carl said all scientific things/facts. Open your phisics book and read.
You need a controlled environment to do NMR, that is the NMR machine at hospital of scientific department, or the e.g. water container sorrounded by coil in e.g. a proton precession magnetometer: same thing.

In these controlled env. you know exactly what's going on, for example the intensity of magnetic field at each time and can tune/reset the machine with known samples (e.g. H2 rich compounds).

What you say here show only your ignorance about how these technology work. You probably never used or saw one in action like other people have.

Yours are just speculating.

Have no facts, lie here telling us that you use Mineoro's from a car moving:
tons of BS.
Impossible, and everybody know that.
You are a storyteller.

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Besides, objects like gold & diamonds are not molecular compounds, but rather atomic structures that have metallic or covalent bonding structures. So claiming that their "molecules" vibrate is meaningless.Hi Carl,

Interesting point. I was thinking a gold atom is considered a molecule, but a molecule is defined as at least 2 atoms. So you are correct, the nuclear magnetic resonance of gold is not the same as the molecular resonance, because there is no gold molecule unless it is combined with at least one more other atom as an electrically neutral group.

This makes me wonder about carbon. In the case of diamonds, isn't there a diamond molecule which consists of quite a few carbon atoms bonded into a structure? When I look at the difference between graphite molecules and diamond molecules, it seems that maybe there is some basis to say they have distinct molecular resonant frequencies. It appears that the molecules for graphite, diamond, and several other all-carbon materials are of different size and mass, which would support the notion of different resonant frequencies.

Maybe I am missing some key information here, but the appearance is there may be a resonant frequency for diamonds, even if it is highly unlikely anybody could detect this resonance outside an extremely strong electromagnetic field.

See graphite and diamond molecules here: http://www.edinformatics.com/interactive_molecules/diamond.htm

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi J_Player,

You emit a IR-laser or IR modulated in audio beam, NO A FIX BEAM in wich you insert the tone via a capacitor. No, you ON and OFF the IR diode at this tone frequency, can be 400 Hz. This tone (modulation) appears as a phase shift in a receiver system. I only try with IR, but sure IR-laser will be better, but much more expensive in comparation. Not for to measure temp, but this beam is like a precisse antenna in wich beam "travel" the phenomenom (because I try it only for old buried items, no for new) and dislocates the system. Also all bodies emit IR, metals in major quantity. But the question is: why I can't detect a person (wich emit IR) but yes a metal buried? What is the associated phenomenom inherent to this? Atomic vibration also? Is very complex!

Hi,
" But the question is: why I can't detect a person (wich emit IR) but yes a metal buried? What is the associated phenomenom inherent to this? Atomic vibration also? Is very complex!"

??? A "person" body emission spectrum have infrared portions due to the heat generation by organic tissue, so at the end, due to chemical reactions that take place inside the body. You can see them by e.g. an infrared camera.
This is the same principle of operation of cheap alarm sensors, passive-IR-detection.

But you mix things talking about "body" radiation (black-body used e.g. in Planck's experiments) and human body ! :lol:

You say that all things emitt IR ? What a kind of phisics book you have ?

IR emission is possible but for many substances, compounds and "metals" only in hi-energy state!

Where did you see e.g. gold, at room temperature, emitting IR radiations ???

BS.

In IR-lasers that probably you don't know... an "active" material is ENERGIZED in a pumping process to give the right energy level to the material, from which it spontaneosly decade releasing photons with infrared frequency, all in phase one each other.

You have to give external energy to the system to get your IR photons. When you light an IR-led you have to give energy (supply it) to get IR-emission... you can test with your VCR-remote ! :lol:

There are spontaneous chemical-reactions that generate IR-avalanche etc etc etc an example are chemical-organic-lasers!

But metals, normally, don't emit IR. This is a BS.

So, at first you see the "light" from treasure... now also IR-light ! :D

TONS OF BS.

Kind regards,
Max

[aft_72005]

Hi aft_72005,

Can you show where you found this formula so we can read it also?

Thank you,
J_P


Hi J_Player:)

The book specification:
Fundamentals of molecular spectroscopy essayby
Banwell,C.N.

In chapter seven author was wrote about spectroscopy
Of spin resonance .
I asked from my friend about molecular resonance ,he is
Chemist engineer, give me this book. I have paper
Translated from English version .
Please tell me If you found PDF format of this book.
Regards .:)

[Max]

Hi J_Player,

You emit a IR-laser or IR modulated in audio beam, NO A FIX BEAM in wich you insert the tone via a capacitor. No, you ON and OFF the IR diode at this tone frequency, can be 400 Hz. This tone (modulation) appears as a phase shift in a receiver system. I only try with IR, but sure IR-laser will be better, but much more expensive in comparation. Not for to measure temp, but this beam is like a precisse antenna in wich beam "travel" the phenomenom (because I try it only for old buried items, no for new) and dislocates the system. Also all bodies emit IR, metals in major quantity. But the question is: why I can't detect a person (wich emit IR) but yes a metal buried? What is the associated phenomenom inherent to this? Atomic vibration also? Is very complex!

Hi,
another stupid thing about "metal IR emission" you say possible is that metals are very special "structures"... not good for emitting ! :lol:

An example of what I say is by solid-ruby-chromium-doped laser... chromium is a metal but you can't get light emission from it when it's in the metallic "structure" !:lol:

No chromium bar emit light Esteban ! :razz: At room temperature I mean!

In solid-ruby-chromium-doped laser the atoms of chromium are enclosed in the ruby as doping in semiconductors... this avoid the "metallic" behaviour and give you the ability of using an optical pump to energize the chromium atoms to then emit light returning to the low-energy level.

METALS EMIT IR ? ALL BS.

Best regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Hi aft_72005,

Thank you for the information about Banwell and his publication. :)
I did not find this published on the internet, but I read that this is an excellent introductory text used in colleges all over the world and as reference material for other publications.

You will find many excellent books related to magnetic resonance that cite Banwell's publication here: http://books.google.com/books?um=1&lr=&q=Banwell%2CC.N.+fundamentals&btnG=Search+Books

If you page through some of these publications, you will find some very interesting reference materials to read that were made by other scientists and researchers.

Best wishes,
J_P

[aft_72005]

Hi J_Player :)
Yes, in the introduction of this book translator wrote,
Was the best reference for chemist students and tuition
In the most university of the world.
Regards. :)

[aft_72005]

The Facts About NMR



A common claim with MFD proponents is that "all elements have a natural frequency" and will either resonate with other like elements, or can be made to resonate with a properly tuned signal generator. MFD proponents often point to the fact that all elements have a property called "nuclear magnetic resonance" and, therefore, the concept of resonance is entirely scientific.

Yes, it is true that all elements have an NMR frequency. You can go to WebElements (http://www.webelements.com/) and click on an element, then click the NMR link to the left side. For gold, you will find that the NMR frequency is 1.754000MHz, and that this entry includes the statement "relative to 1H = 100 (MHz)". What does this mean?

It turns out the NMR frequency for any given element is dependent on the static magnetic field the element is exposed to. For gold, the magnetic field that produces an NMR frequency of 1.754MHz is the same field that produces an NMR frequency of 100MHz for hydrogen.

What is this field? With a little effort, you will find the field strength to be roughly 2.35 Teslas. So for hydrogen, 2.35T yields an NMR frequency of 100MHz. 4.7T will result in an NMR frequency of 200MHz. In other words, the NMR frequency is proportional to the magnetic field.

What about the Earth's natural magnetic field? This varies from place-to-place, but 50 microTeslas (uT) is a fair average strength. So the magnetic field strength of 2.35T is a whopping 47,000 times stronger than the Earth's field. Working the other way, we can find that the NMR frequency of hydrogen exposed to the Earth's field is a mere 2.13kHz. And guess what? That's exactly the frequency we get from a proton precession magnetometer! Most PPM's use hydrogen-rich water as the precession medium, and it is the hydrogen that is doing the precessing. Variations in the Earth's field due to iron targets change the precession frequency, exactly because the NMR frequency varies with field strength.

So gold has an NMR frequency of 1.754MHz at 2.35T, which means at 50uT it will have an NMR frequency of only 37 Hz or so. So if any MFD were being true to the NMR property, it would use 37Hz for gold. Not 5kHz. Now, some MFD manufacturers talk about resonating elements at a harmonic (or, sometimes, a "sub-harmonic") frequency. Although 5kHz is roughly the 135th harmonic of 37Hz, it is far, far less efficient to try to resonate something at a harmonic rather than the fundamental. Anyone who has used 3rd overtone crystals is aware of this, and claiming resonance at the 135th harmonic is just plain absurd.

So now that we know what the real frequency of resonance should be, we can proceed with a gold detector, right? Not so fast. Let's go back to the proton mag. How does a PPM detect the precession frequency of water? Well, typically a small bottle of water is placed INSIDE a fairly hefty coil. The coil serves two purposes. First, water just sitting around has its molecules all randomly oriented, so that even if they were "resonating", there would be no net signal due to an overall cancelation of all the little signals. So the coil is hit with a large transient current, which generates a large magnetic field, which serves to align at least some of the water molecules. Then, with the transient field removed, the coil becomes a receiver to detect the very, very weak precession signal from the water.

So in order to utilize NMR, we need to "ping" the target to get it to precess, much like hitting a bell with a clapper. Then, we need a way to detect the precession signal, which is incredibly weak. With PPM, both of these are only accomplished when the water is INSIDE the coil. The same is true with hospital MRI machines... the patient is slid INSIDE a humongous coil.

In the end, the concept of trying to remotely resonate buried targets is just bogus. It is like trying to boil water with a microwave oven, by placing the water 100 meters from the oven, and then running the oven on a 9-volt battery. Ain't gonna happen.

- Carl


Hi Carl, Max , and all :)
Carl, Your opinions completely correct and true.
I had more study about NMR and molecular resonance ,but
Cannot find any relation between MFD for treasure hunting
And Laboratory NMR .
Best regards .:)

[hung]

The Facts About NMR






A common claim with MFD proponents is that "all elements have a natural frequency" and will either resonate with other like elements, or can be made to resonate with a properly tuned signal generator. MFD proponents often point to the fact that all elements have a property called "nuclear magnetic resonance" and, therefore, the concept of resonance is entirely scientific.

Yes, it is true that all elements have an NMR frequency. You can go to WebElements (http://www.webelements.com) and click on an element, then click the NMR link to the left side. For gold, you will find that the NMR frequency is 1.754000MHz, and that this entry includes the statement "relative to 1H = 100 (MHz)". What does this mean?

It turns out the NMR frequency for any given element is dependent on the static magnetic field the element is exposed to. For gold, the magnetic field that produces an NMR frequency of 1.754MHz is the same field that produces an NMR frequency of 100MHz for hydrogen.

What is this field? With a little effort, you will find the field strength to be roughly 2.35 Teslas. So for hydrogen, 2.35T yields an NMR frequency of 100MHz. 4.7T will result in an NMR frequency of 200MHz. In other words, the NMR frequency is proportional to the magnetic field.

What about the Earth's natural magnetic field? This varies from place-to-place, but 50 microTeslas (uT) is a fair average strength. So the magnetic field strength of 2.35T is a whopping 47,000 times stronger than the Earth's field. Working the other way, we can find that the NMR frequency of hydrogen exposed to the Earth's field is a mere 2.13kHz. And guess what? That's exactly the frequency we get from a proton precession magnetometer! Most PPM's use hydrogen-rich water as the precession medium, and it is the hydrogen that is doing the precessing. Variations in the Earth's field due to iron targets change the precession frequency, exactly because the NMR frequency varies with field strength.

So gold has an NMR frequency of 1.754MHz at 2.35T, which means at 50uT it will have an NMR frequency of only 37 Hz or so. So if any MFD were being true to the NMR property, it would use 37Hz for gold. Not 5kHz.

Wrong.

Now, some MFD manufacturers talk about resonating elements at a harmonic (or, sometimes, a "sub-harmonic") frequency. Although 5kHz is roughly the 135th harmonic of 37Hz, it is far, far less efficient to try to resonate something at a harmonic rather than the fundamental. Anyone who has used 3rd overtone crystals is aware of this, and claiming resonance at the 135th harmonic is just plain absurd.

Partly correct. It depends on many things. But your overall conclusion does not apply.

So now that we know what the real frequency of resonance should be, we can proceed with a gold detector, right? Not so fast. Let's go back to the proton mag. How does a PPM detect the precession frequency of water? Well, typically a small bottle of water is placed INSIDE a fairly hefty coil. The coil serves two purposes. First, water just sitting around has its molecules all randomly oriented, so that even if they were "resonating", there would be no net signal due to an overall cancelation of all the little signals. So the coil is hit with a large transient current, which generates a large magnetic field, which serves to align at least some of the water molecules. Then, with the transient field removed, the coil becomes a receiver to detect the very, very weak precession signal from the water.

Incorrect comparison.

So in order to utilize NMR, we need to "ping" the target to get it to precess, much like hitting a bell with a clapper. Then, we need a way to detect the precession signal, which is incredibly weak. With PPM, both of these are only accomplished when the water is INSIDE the coil. The same is true with hospital MRI machines... the patient is slid INSIDE a humongous coil.

In the end, the concept of trying to remotely resonate buried targets is just bogus. It is like trying to boil water with a microwave oven, by placing the water 100 meters from the oven, and then running the oven on a 9-volt battery. Ain't gonna happen.

Wrong conclusion. Unfortunate comparison.

- Carl

I agree with you. As I don't want to debate this theme here, I don't have the right to state anything further to prejudice your line of thought. Keep researching.
One thing to note. It took 2 plus years to a member of this forums finally admit ionic activity in buried metals. Just like Mineoro claimed, results from work of both inventors for 50 years.
So in about 5 years, I think enough information will be gathered to permit a clearer discussion. Not talking of NMR . Talking other things.
Regards.

[J_Player]

One thing to note. It took 2 plus years to a member of this forums finally admit ionic activity in buried metals. Just like Mineoro claimed, results from work of both inventors for 50 years.Just exactly who are you referring to as the member who "took 2 plus years to finally admit ionic activity in buried metals"? You aren't claiming this member is me, are you?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

I agree with you. As I don't want to debate this theme here, I don't have the right to state anything further to prejudice your line of thought. Keep researching.
One thing to note. It took 2 plus years to a member of this forums finally admit ionic activity in buried metals. Just like Mineoro claimed, results from work of both inventors for 50 years.
So in about 5 years, I think enough information will be gathered to permit a clearer discussion. Not talking of NMR . Talking other things.
Regards.

Hi Hung,
"One thing to note. It took 2 plus years to a member of this forums finally admit ionic activity in buried metals. Just like Mineoro claimed, results from work of both inventors for 50 years."

No you said that detection was due to ions in air detected by Mineoro's devices... all we know that this is false.

There aren't airborn ions , in normal conditions, and there isn't any ion "chamber" (trap would be the right terminology) in the mineoro's ... but just a strange potted pvc pipe with brass and gold plating... nothing to detect ions ! Also many thing are related to radio-works that have nothing to do with ionic detection.

Mineoro's don't detect any ion, but just broadband noise.
Mineoro's claims are pure science-fiction.

Ionic activity of buried metals is not in discussion, there are proofs of that.
Problem is that there aren't airborn ions e.g. of gold and there isn't a device capable of really carry out LRLocation.

Your claim of using a mineoro from your car moving is a clear false assertion, impossible claim, cause of the broadband noise saturation you'll get by ignition sparks...as I've already showed here.

If you can ear sparks noise with an e.g. AM-radio why don't with the mineoro ? :lol:
Cause many parts of mineoro's pdc we can see in picture are actually things that one could find in old am-radios...same stuff... even germanium-diodes are there! :razz:

2xOA89 man ! Apart the MCU...seems designed with stuff of the 70's ! :rolleyes:

Also some Estebans claims of using e.g. an ir-led + an FM-radio as LRL detector seems go in same direction... and what a concidence ! :shocked:

Some ,older BFO and OFF-RES are based on beating frequencies the same you get in AM radio... and IF-mixers of FM receivers (heterodyne-style) so no big surprise for me to see such assertion by Esteban.

But you still talk of ion fantasies. You're sick ! :lol:
I'm the cure.

ALL BS.

Kind regards,
Max

[hung]

No you said that detection was due to ions in air detected by Mineoro's devices... all we know that this is false.

No. It's not false. You don't understand the ion subject completely. That's it.

There aren't airborn ions , in normal conditions, and there isn't any ion "chamber" (trap would be the right terminology) in the mineoro's ... but just a strange potted pvc pipe with brass and gold plating... nothing to detect ions ! Also many thing are related to radio-works that have nothing to do with ionic detection.

It may not be an ionic chamber 'per se' in your own definition, but still it's an ionic chamber afterall.

Mineoro's don't detect any ion, but just broadband noise.
Mineoro's claims are pure science-fiction.~/quote]

This is not true, although broadband noise interferes. See bellow.

[quote]Ionic activity of buried metals is not in discussion, there are proofs of that.
Problem is that there aren't airborn ions e.g. of gold and there isn't a device capable of really carry out LRLocation.

Sorry. You're wrong. Simply as that.



You get interference only if you point it to the source of ignition, otherwise, not. It's directional. You have to keep it 90 deg from source to avoid interferences.
In fact I already detected targets from car dozens of times. The gold vein was detected this way last week.

[quote]If you can ear sparks noise with an e.g. AM-radio why don't with the mineoro ? :lol:

The Mineoro also receive those. Far away lightinings from storms too.

Cause many parts of mineoro's pdc we can see in picture are actually things that one could find in old am-radios...same stuff... even germanium-diodes are there! :razz:

First, what is shown is not the PDC. It's a model which served as link to the FG80. But it works (or at least it used to).


But you still talk of ion fantasies.

Maybe fantasies for you. But to me, this 'fantasies' turn into profit of the objects I find.

You're sick ! :lol:

Thanks.
I'm the cure.

Not really...

Today is my day off. That's why I'm here having fun just for a while...

Kind regards,
Max

Kind feelings to you too.;)

[Max]

No. It's not false. You don't understand the ion subject completely. That's it.



It may not be an ionic chamber 'per se' in your own definition, but still it's an ionic chamber afterall.



You get interference only if you point it to the source of ignition, otherwise, not. It's directional. You have to keep it 90 deg from source to avoid interferences.
In fact I already detected targets from car dozens of times. The gold vein was detected this way last week.



The Mineoro also receive those. Far away lightinings from storms too.



First, what is shown is not the PDC. It's a model which served as link to the FG80. But it works (or at least it used to).




Maybe fantasies for you. But to me, this 'fantasies' turn into profit of the objects I find.



Thanks.


Not really...

Today is my day off. That's why I'm here having fun just for a while...



Kind feelings to you too.;)

Hi,
"It may not be an ionic chamber 'per se' in your own definition, but still it's an ionic chamber afterall."

This is new ! :lol: it's a ionic chamber "afterall"...oh wow ! now I'm really lost in space ! Is it a ionic chamber or not !? There isn't a middle way ! :razz:

"You get interference only if you point it to the source of ignition, otherwise, not. It's directional. You have to keep it 90 deg from source to avoid interferences. "

This is false. You condradict yourself with this assertion, cause you many times reported that the unit must be used following the "reflected" signal, using the famous angles Esteban and all the other nonscientists talk about to locate the target, so you said before, indirectly, that unit isn't directional.

"You have to keep it 90 deg from source to avoid interferences. "

This is absolutely impossible using your hand, mineoro and a car.
Even assuming the unit totally directional is IMPOSSIBLE holding the mineoro at exact 90degrees angle position respect the noise source.

BS.

In the car the broadband noise due to the sparks and the strong magnetic field related create eddy-currents that run in the metallic surfaces at engine, then propagate on surface of metallic parts of the whole car, thus creating a noisy environment. The huge transients generate noise also in the electrical paths in the whole car... as any car-audio entusiast well know.

Not only... a huge amount of pure RF noise is generated by the sparks themselves... without any need of other coupling to saturate any mineoro or the like.

Mineoro's can't be used in a car with engine running. You'll ear only noise from the engine. It's a fact.

All people experimented with mineoro reported that units are really prone to electrical noise, from e.g. tv-set, power-lines, ionizers... all cause of broadband omnidirectional receiver they really are. Same happens with the zahori I've tested... just as another coincidence ! :rolleyes:

Using Mineoro's from a car with engine on = fantasies.

"The Mineoro also receive those. Far away lightinings from storms too."

Here we are... ! And all other noise too. :lol:

"First, what is shown is not the PDC. It's a model which served as link to the FG80. But it works (or at least it used to). "

Was PDC, read the label and Mineoro's logo on the internal ! :rolleyes:

Also you need googles ??? :cool:

What else ???;)

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

labeled cdm-210 outside... but then the SECRET POTTED CIRCUIT said PDC! :lol:

I think that change absolutely nothing! For me are all the same thing.

Nonsense , nonworking devices.

I'm the cure ! :rolleyes:

[Esteban]

One more time, metals emit infrared. Sure.

... well-painted metals. Unoxidized bare metals have emissivities below about 0.3 and should not be measured. Oxidized metals have emissivities ranging from about 0.5 to 0.9, and are the problematic category due to the large range of values. The degree of oxidation is a key ingredient to an object’s emissivity. The higher the oxidation, the higher the emissivity.


What coincidence! No?


More:

Objects generally emit infrared radiation across a spectrum of wavelengths, but only a specific region of the spectrum is of interest because sensors are usually designed only to collect radiation within a specific bandwidth. As a result, the infrared band is often subdivided into smaller sections. There are no standard divisions, but a commonly used scheme is...:

And tons and tons....

Is easy to find info in the net about IR emission of metals, wich deppends also of his termal conductivity.

You're not prepared for to discuss this: first, because you no investigate, you believe you know about the things, but no. And second and more important: you never experiment in it, except when you press a button of your TV remote control.

And more Max: no need high energies, no high energies IR sources, simple IR leds or laser leds do the job.

AND MORE: I have the key of it!

You're the cure, Medice cure te ipsum!

[hung]

Hi,
In the car the broadband noise due to the sparks and the strong magnetic field related create eddy-currents that run in the metallic surfaces at engine, then propagate on surface of metallic parts of the whole car, thus creating a noisy environment. The huge transients generate noise also in the electrical paths in the whole car... as any car-audio entusiast well know.

Max

C'mon Max, you're smarter than that.
Sure the PDC will beep as soon as you turn the engine on. In my own car it even captures the electronic signals to the car's computer some seconds after the engine on. But after that, it remains silent as expected. I use it positioned over the right seat's window base, pointing outside. If the deivce is turned to point the car's coil for instance it will beep for sure.
You will confirm that with any Mineoro user. Even Carl.
If it worked as you claim above it would be uselless to work in a car and even useless as gold detector. Get real.

As for the PDC, you said it all yourself... 'It's the CDM-210', not the PDC210. Go back to that thread and find the explanation Damasio gave regarding this model.

Well, case closed for me on both subjects.

[hung]

Hey Esteban,

I see you are a patient person. Congratulations. I'm not.

[J_Player]

One thing to note. It took 2 plus years to a member of this forums finally admit ionic activity in buried metals. Just like Mineoro claimed, results from work of both inventors for 50 years.So who is the mystery member you are referring to? Did somebody finally admit this like you said, or is it another of your fabrications you expect people to believe?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Also gold forms molecular structures, 13, 14, 19, etc., atoms, for example. As molecules vibrates, also atoms vibrates in singular signature for each element.

Type in the net gold molecules and you will find info.

[Esteban]

Hey Esteban,

I see you are a patient person. Congratulations. I'm not.

Hi Hung,

Ehhh... this boy need to be redirected to the school. He can't discuss in the minimum range here.

[hung]

So who is the mystery member you are referring to? Did somebody finally admit this like you said, or is it another of your fabrications you expect people to believe?

Best wishes,
J_P

Who's the one posting links about ionic activity of metals lately?
You tell me.

[hung]

Also gold forms molecular structures, 13, 14, 19, etc., atoms, for example. As molecules vibrates, also atoms vibrates in singular signature for each element.

Type in the net gold molecules and you will find info.

Esteban, our research brought some relevant info on this. We can talk trough email if you wish.
Regards.

[Max]

C'mon Max, you're smarter than that.
Sure the PDC will beep as soon as you turn the engine on. In my own car it even captures the electronic signals to the car's computer some seconds after the engine on. But after that, it remains silent as expected. I use it positioned over the right seat's window base, pointing outside. If the deivce is turned to point the car's coil for instance it will beep for sure.
You will confirm that with any Mineoro user. Even Carl.
If it worked as you claim above it would be uselless to work in a car and even useless as gold detector. Get real.

As for the PDC, you said it all yourself... 'It's the CDM-210', not the PDC210. Go back to that thread and find the explanation Damasio gave regarding this model.

Well, case closed for me on both subjects.

Hi Hung,
you continue with nonsense... good.

These things cannot be used in cars with engine on. You intentionally disinformate people. I'm not an owner of mineoro's devices but I'm sure some serious people having it will confirm that.

I have no interest saying that can't be used in such conditions cause of any problems with you or mineoro: just to serve the truth. Nothing more.

I've not bought a mineoro or other LRL stuff... I'm not a competitor... and just speak about facts.

Then you can use it aware of your car as you want... if you belive it works.
Fine for me.
But please don't say here to others things that aren't so.

You knows perfectly that in a car with engine on the mineoro's and many other claimed working LRL cannot be turned on.

"If it worked as you claim above it would be uselless to work in a car and even useless as gold detector. Get real."

I'm real. Actually IT IS USELESS.

"As for the PDC, you said it all yourself... 'It's the CDM-210', not the PDC210."

Change nothing. The unit was manifactured by Mineoro and claimed working LRL... so what difference if you call it John or Mary ?

3 letters are the difference ? Alexis explained that is a total CRAP. Can't detect anything but noise... then dismantled it to show us what's inside...
and we saw the PVC water-pipe... the one you still claim being a "ion chamber".

ALL BS.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

One more time, metals emit infrared. Sure.

... well-painted metals. Unoxidized bare metals have emissivities below about 0.3 and should not be measured. Oxidized metals have emissivities ranging from about 0.5 to 0.9, and are the problematic category due to the large range of values. The degree of oxidation is a key ingredient to an object’s emissivity. The higher the oxidation, the higher the emissivity.


What coincidence! No?


More:

Objects generally emit infrared radiation across a spectrum of wavelengths, but only a specific region of the spectrum is of interest because sensors are usually designed only to collect radiation within a specific bandwidth. As a result, the infrared band is often subdivided into smaller sections. There are no standard divisions, but a commonly used scheme is...:

And tons and tons....

Is easy to find info in the net about IR emission of metals, wich deppends also of his termal conductivity.

You're not prepared for to discuss this: first, because you no investigate, you believe you know about the things, but no. And second and more important: you never experiment in it, except when you press a button of your TV remote control.

And more Max: no need high energies, no high energies IR sources, simple IR leds or laser leds do the job.

AND MORE: I have the key of it!

You're the cure, Medice cure te ipsum!

Hi,
you still say that metals emit Infrared radiations ? :lol:

Where did you read that ?

0.3, 0.5, 0.9 of what ? pure numbers ? of what are you talking about ?

Complete nonsense Esteban.

Who said you that metals emit IR ???

I've explained already that to get chromium generated photons you have to create a doping in a crystal matrix. Atomic level dispersion.
Not metal bars.

Atomic + energy -> emission

Metallic structure is very particular and doesn't work as you say.

If you e.g. heat up a metal bar there will be interactions between atoms in the metallic structure that will make you see a continuos emission spectrum.


"You're not prepared for to discuss this"

Oh yeah... you are the master of physics... I see. :lol:

You don't know laser principles... that's the problem... and other physics too.
Have total confusion! :lol:

Mix "atomic spectrometry" with metallic-body continuos emission : completely different story dear Esteban.

"Is easy to find info in the net about IR emission of metals, wich deppends also of his termal conductivity."

No , no , no : wrong. IR band emissions are related not to the "termal conductivity"... as you said... but to energy levels of electrons and relative jumps.

Relation is Planck's one: E = hv

E is energy, h is Planck's constant, v if frequency of photon

Damn ! Every teenager knows ! Haven't you books there ?

You have to study more next time. :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Esteban, our research brought some relevant info on this. We can talk trough email if you wish.
Regards.

Yes molecules... good! :lol:

[hung]

You're lucky. I'm eating my wife's corn bread right now and feel in good mood to insist in untwisting the facts you place here.
But I promise, this is the last time I refer to you.

Hi Hung,

These things cannot be used in cars with engine on. You intentionally disinformate people. I'm not an owner of mineoro's devices but I'm sure some serious people having it will confirm that.

This is a so ridiculous claim. This infers you are trying to compare my device with an ordinary LRL or Zahori. Or, you don't have the slightest clue on how this things work. This last option is the one which applies to you I guess.
If you think a car is an obstacle to the Mineoro's detection, just ask a user here. Esteban, Michael, Mosha, you pick it You don't believe? Ask them if with the engine on, the detector emits any beep, provided it's not aimed at the sparks or coil. They will tell you exactly what I did. Only when the engine gets started it will beep. And once on the road if it's positioned correctly, it will detect at no problems. I did it dozens of times like I said. It's not a matter of believeing it is detecting. It's fact. Naturally it wil require some user who has done this before and did detected something.

Ah.. Sorry, forgot to tell. You have to set the knob gain on 2. If you keep the usual tuning for open field you may get some random beeps when aiming powerlines. On 2 this gets practically nulled out. So when some beep happens, it's something else. Then you stop the car, and get out to check, returning it to the usual tuning.
The gold vein was detected from the car with knob on 2 and with 2 fast beeps, indicating it was something big.
It was.
Esteban can chime in here and will tell you more.
I quit.

Adios.

The unit was manifactured by Mineoro and claimed working LRL... so what difference if you call it John or Mary ?

No one. Both work. Errr... the latter not anymore. It was dismantled. Poor soul...

Out of here Mr. Max. Corn bread is getting cold...:nono:

[Carl-NC]

In the case of diamonds, isn't there a diamond molecule which consists of quite a few carbon atoms bonded into a structure?

Carbon atoms can bond a number of different ways, and maybe graphite and bucky balls are considered to be all-carbon molecules. But diamond is a continuous carbon lattice.

When I look at the difference between graphite molecules and diamond molecules, it seems that maybe there is some basis to say they have distinct molecular resonant frequencies. It appears that the molecules for graphite, diamond, and several other all-carbon materials are of different size and mass, which would support the notion of different resonant frequencies.Certainly mass and volume play a role in mechanical vibration, just like different bells and different drums produce different tones. But mechanical vibration can't be a basis for LRLs, because a silver dime and a silver dollar would have different mechanical resonances, as would diamonds of different carats.

Since I was addressing NMR and not mechanical vibration, is it possible NMR frequencies are altered by the molecular/lattice structure of the atoms? Maybe. But as you said, "it is highly unlikely anybody could detect this resonance outside an extremely strong electromagnetic field."

- Carl

[J_Player]

Since I was addressing NMR and not mechanical vibration, is it possible NMR frequencies are altered by the molecular/lattice structure of the atoms? Maybe. But as you said, "it is highly unlikely anybody could detect this resonance outside an extremely strong electromagnetic field."Yes, I consider that all carbon has a tendency to create covalent bonds with itself and often with other elements. What I wonder is if the covalent bonding among the atoms of an all carbon substance would show the same NMR regardless of what all carbon substance is being tested, or if the variations in structure of the lattice would cause the frequency to be noticeably altered. It was my understanding that the NMR is dependent partly on the chemical bonding structure. But I am not certain, since you explained that water shows the resonance frequency of hydrogen. It makes me wonder if NMR testing machines are able to tell the difference between diamond and charcoal or graphite.

But as you said, I don't see how variations in NMR resonance of carbon would be relevant to MFD, or LRLs in general, as neither of these operate in a sufficient magnetic field, and are operating at the wrong frequencies based on what the manufacturers told us.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

I'm not master in physics, also you don't, but I know that all bodies over absolute zero emit IR. YOU MUST KNOW THIS SIMPLE MATTER.

Terahertz radiation (or millimetre waves, with a frequency of 1012 Hz) consists of light waves with a wavelength in between microwaves and normal infrared radiation. Terahertz radiation can be used for imaging of concealed objects such as weapons, medical imaging, and the detection of certain chemicals such as explosives and drugs. All objects at room temperature emit a continuous stream of terahertz radiation. We are particularly interested in terahertz pulses with a duration around a picosecond (10-12 s). Such ultrashort pulses are important for fundamental studies of novel materials, the study of biological processes, and particle accelerators. The generation and application of terahertz pulses has been studied intensely for the past 10 years or so with now about 500 publications a year. The Strathclyde group led by Klaas Wynne (http://bcp.phys.strath.ac.uk/the_group/people/klaas_wynne.php) has been working in this area since 1996.

http://bcp.phys.strath.ac.uk/pr/07pr1.php


http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:mCsvDU-9Oo4J:coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/resources/paper_products/print_publication_pdf/eta_car_back_panels.pdf+all+metals+emits+infrared+ university&hl=es&ct=clnk&cd=56&gl=py (http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:mCsvDU-9Oo4J:coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/resources/paper_products/print_publication_pdf/eta_car_back_panels.pdf+all+metals+emits+infrared+ university&hl=es&ct=clnk&cd=56&gl=py)

And 1,000 like this you can found with some study. You're a sample who must be redirected to the school!! :lol:

Insist with your chromium, your ruby laser and maser, you master of the negativity. And what if you show me a classic GENERAL formula, you the master in physics, eh? :eek: What!!! :eek: :eek:

Show me all the formulas you want, these no quit what I know in use for detect via IR beam! :razz: And also nothing to see GENERAL FORMULAS with DERIVATED APPLICATIONS. IF YOU DON'T KNOW, YOU CAN FOUND USES OF GENERAL PRINCIPLES. If you don't know, the world of the energy is vaste!!! Do you see the difference? 8)

Is very easy AND YOU DON'T KNOW!!! :lol: Hate me!!! Go, you master in nothing!!!

I insist: the only you know about IR is regarding the remote control of your DVD and TV. But you can use for other purposes... if you put SOME EFFORT!!! :cool:

Leave Hung in peace, who has more experience, 1,000 times, than you.

[J_Player]

Hi Esteban,

I would not worry about what Max claims about infrared. Everybody who read his posts knows he does not know what he is talking about for infrared emissions. You cannot expect him to read any science reports about this. He already established in a different post that he is a real busy guy and he does not have time for reading lots of science reports. I think maybe he don't care what you show the Caltech professor says.

You emit a IR-laser or IR modulated in audio beam, NO A FIX BEAM in wich you insert the tone via a capacitor. No, you ON and OFF the IR diode at this tone frequency, can be 400 Hz. This tone (modulation) appears as a phase shift in a receiver system. I only try with IR, but sure IR-laser will be better, but much more expensive in comparation. Not for to measure temp, but this beam is like a precisse antenna in wich beam "travel" the phenomenom (because I try it only for old buried items, no for new) and dislocates the system. Also all bodies emit IR, metals in major quantity. But the question is: why I can't detect a person (wich emit IR) but yes a metal buried? What is the associated phenomenom inherent to this? Atomic vibration also? Is very complex!This is a very interesting thing you talk about. Let me see if I understand correctly:
You say I should take an inrfared LED or an infrared laser, and pulse it on and off with a square wave, not sine wave at maybe 400HZ. This beam should be aimed at an old buried metal target. Correct?

If I understand your idea correctly for sending a beam to the long time buried metal, then my question is: How do I measure phase shift? Do I look for a change in the phase of the transmitted light beam frequency? or do I look for a diffenrence between the transmitted and the reflected beam? I would think a reflected beam will show very close to the same time as the beam sent when the target is at close distance.

In order to measure a phase shift, I would think it is necessary to use a very fast IC to see the small shift in a light beam time. Am I correct? Do we need to use methods similar to radar ranging techniques? What kind of circuit do you use to see the phase change?

Also, has this phenomena been seen in different light frequencies besides the usual infrared diodes and lasers? Do you know of any experiments with the red lasers or the 532nm high power green lasers?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Carl-NC]

These things cannot be used in cars with engine on. You intentionally disinformate people. I'm not an owner of mineoro's devices but I'm sure some serious people having it will confirm that.

Since I own a Mineoro FG80, and I was barely interested enough to test this, I will conditionally defend Hung on this one.

With the engine turned off, I could tune my FG80 to ~330 to get silence in all directions. Once I cranked the engine, I had to detune by 70 to again get to the silence threshold.

Whether the engine was on or off, the FG80 was more sensitive pointing straight ahead (or straight behind, since the FG80 cannot distinguish between front & back). So I investigated, and found that as long as the key was on, the FG80 could not be brought close to the dash without beeping. In fact, I had to detune all the way down to "30" to maintain silence close to the dash, even with the engine off. So my dash must be spewing tremendous amounts of ions! :lol:

So what do I mean by "conditionally" defend Hung? Well, the claim was, "These things cannot be used in cars with engine on," and what I found was that my FG80 can be "used" with the engine on. There is still the glaring question as to whether the FG80 is "useful", regardless of cars and engines.

- Carl

[J_Player]

So my dash must be spewing tremendous amounts of ions! :lol: There is still the glaring question as to whether the FG80 is "useful", regardless of cars and engines.Have you considered the potential health problems of ions floating around your dash board? Suppose some of these are lead ions from pre-green solder days? Maybe if you wear a gas mask while driving you'll be safe.

As I recall from the last postings about the FG80, we were told it really doesn't detect fresh gold, that it must be buried at least 10 years. In fact I thought there was talk about all the Mineoro FG detectors cannot detect fresh gold. So what does the FG stand for? What does the Mineoro detect besides electrical noise?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

1. You say I should take an inrfared LED or an infrared laser, and pulse it on and off with a square wave, not sine wave at maybe 400HZ. This beam should be aimed at an old buried metal target. Correct?

Square wave, 50% duty cicle, from a 555. Yes, and his very precisse. No much distance with common IR leds. When you pick a beep in movement, you search for the precisse point.

2. If I understand your idea correctly for sending a beam to the long time buried metal, then my question is: How do I measure phase shift? Do I look for a change in the phase of the transmitted light beam frequency? or do I look for a diffenrence between the transmitted and the reflected beam? I would think a reflected beam will show very close to the same time as the beam sent when the target is at close distance.

I think occurs a variation in height between the tone present in a receiver (this is filtrate as an interference in ANY sensitive system like a milivoltmeter). YOU DON'T NEED IR leds receiver. Also this filtrates in FM reveiver, and the signal of the target is directly in the beam or beams, no in the telescopic antenna, for example. But today maybe is not possible in this band (FM).

3. In order to measure a phase shift, I would think it is necessary to use a very fast IC to see the small shift in a light beam time. Am I correct? Do we need to use methods similar to radar ranging techniques? What kind of circuit do you use to see the phase change?

Maybe you're correct in this, but never I use sophisticated ICs. Don't know if this is or not similar to radar. The height of the tone changes. A simple adjustable comparator with audio generator.

4. Also, has this phenomena been seen in different light frequencies besides the usual infrared diodes and lasers? Do you know of any experiments with the red lasers or the 532nm high power green lasers?

No experiment with this. Once I use a common (cheap) Chinese laser pointer modulated at very low freq., and found button at 20 cm depth. Maybe the modulated frequency isn't the most important regarding the wavelenght of IR and laser in microwave regions. Metals reflects microwaves, and sure emission in vecinity, this is, IR.

[J_Player]

Thank you for explanations Estaban,

There is still one part I don't understand -- The circuitry to measure the phase shift: Do I use only an audio circuit to listen to the 400 Hz transmit signal? And I listen for change in frequency or in amplitude or both? Is there some kind of receiver circuit to build?

What kind of circuit should I use, and what should I measure with this circuit?

Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

Since I own a Mineoro FG80, and I was barely interested enough to test this, I will conditionally defend Hung on this one.

With the engine turned off, I could tune my FG80 to ~330 to get silence in all directions. Once I cranked the engine, I had to detune by 70 to again get to the silence threshold.

Whether the engine was on or off, the FG80 was more sensitive pointing straight ahead (or straight behind, since the FG80 cannot distinguish between front & back). So I investigated, and found that as long as the key was on, the FG80 could not be brought close to the dash without beeping. In fact, I had to detune all the way down to "30" to maintain silence close to the dash, even with the engine off. So my dash must be spewing tremendous amounts of ions! :lol:

So what do I mean by "conditionally" defend Hung? Well, the claim was, "These things cannot be used in cars with engine on," and what I found was that my FG80 can be "used" with the engine on. There is still the glaring question as to whether the FG80 is "useful", regardless of cars and engines.

- Carl

The 'pearl' above is among the very reasons I decided to leave this forum for a while and now after receiving an invitation to join another discussion forum I'm seriously thinking in quitting this one for good. No rewards.

This will be my last input on Mineoro detectors as sometimes I feel I deal with retarded people here, specially having to state the same things over and over again.

Carl, what amazes me in you is that you pose as a supposed scientific mind but you already gave me evidence that you are a rookie in those matters. But at least with the Mineoro detector in hand and also supposedly doing some tests, I would at least expect reasonable conclusions and inputs about it. But no, you speak nonsenses about the device's working principle even a layman would not say.
Mr. Brains, there's no such thing as the MIneoro receiving from front and back. Just because it's got a loop antenna it's in cardioid pattern by the ionic chamber, Einstein. If this was the case, all gold I found would be in the opposite way. I won't waste my time here explaining things about the directivity, even a person with 2 neurons would understand.

Also, if you still have not found gold with it, it's your problem, not mine or Mineoro's. You either DOES NOT WANT IT TO HAPPEN or worse, you have bad intention and don't want admit the device in fact does. I sincerelly hope you don't get to this extreme, but coming from you, nobody knows.

Keep pretending the device is useless, In fact all LRLs in your hands are useless. If I were you I would worry and would go see a doctor right away.
Sorry pal, I cannot take your 'make believe' claims anymore.
This is my last input towards you and the FG80 subject. I tried to give you good info. But incompetence and twisted attitudes have limit.


Regards.

[J_Player]

.

[J_Player]

I feel I deal with retarded people here, specially having to state the same things over and over again.Nobody here is so retarded to believe the BS you repeat over and over with nothing to substantiate it except your extraordinarily fantastic stories.

Can you explain why we should believe a Mineoro LRL can find treasure when nobody on earth is willing to demonstrate it doing that?

Can you explain why we should believe you recently found a 500 year old legendary treasure in the middle of a large city, when there have been no news reports about this legendary find?

Can you explain why we should believe you have completed mods to a RangerTell that allows it to detect gold and silver coins a mile away?

Can you explain why we should believe you found gold veins in the forest that can't be verified by anything except your claim it is true?

Can you explain why we should believe this is your last post after demonstrating at least three times the past few months it is not?

Do you have any credible evidence to support any of these stories you have told?

Haven't you read the Intro note Carl posted in this forum, where he says: "Be factual. If you make an extraordinary claim, be prepared to get challenged." And now you're whining when people think you're fullo BS and challenge you?

Hahahahaaaa, :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

The first time I use FM receiver because you have here amplification and tone is present via "interference" in the FI section. The circuit of emission I put near the radio.

The second time, invent a system of "interference" (the tone in the receiver). Here I was "liberated" of the need of locate the circuit of emission near the radio. The loops creates the necessary "interference". I bought this detector to a man who wish this. He brought me a silver spoon located withs this, and later he found more things as roll of copper wire, etc. Don't know more of this man.

The third time I use a milivoltmeter based on 741 (classic simple circuit), but when I raise, this beeps. So, here you must reduced the sens. and stay more critic. Rapidly found a washer of copper. I leave this for the problem. I'm not sure to use low noise ICs in this application for example.

You measure changes in audio, because simple audio I use. Regarding audio, Alonso told me once: "The phenomenom is present in a piece of wire. The matter is to convert in sound." Great words of this genius!

[J_Player]

See you this rare things I wich think! (there are much more than this)Yes, there is much more. There has been an enormous amount of research done in infrared antennas in the past decade, and discoveries how gold behaves differently than a simple metal when used in an antenna to transmit and receive these light frequencies.

What surprises me is you have found a simple way to detect these signals instead of the difficult methods in a laboratory. I will hope to sometime see the simple loop circuits you used.

Thank you for the excellent information,
J_P

[Esteban]

Esteban, our research brought some relevant info on this. We can talk trough email if you wish.
Regards.

OK, tell me about it. Hung, calm, mantain your position if you believe you're in the correct point. Explain us about your new projects.

Regards

Esteban

[Nihil Roma Maius]

Max, why you're mixing applications with general laws? Eh?? :eek:

Where is your teacher? I will strike him with a stick. Or maybe you, first, bad pupil. Learn!! Learn!! Learn!!

Best regards

Nihil Roma Maius

[Carl-NC]

Mr. Brains, there's no such thing as the MIneoro receiving from front and back. Just because it's got a loop antenna it's in cardioid pattern by the ionic chamber, Einstein.

From my "Mineoro tests (http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?t=12912)" thread:

"Another prediction from the use of a loop antenna is that sensitivity is identical on both the front side and back side of the loop. Again, this can be easily demonstrated with a metal detector coil. The FG80 was tested again, but with the back side of the unit held facing the PI coil. Results were the same as the front side."

Hung, would you like to deny that my FG80 detects RF equally well from the front side or the back?

- Carl

[Max]

I'm not master in physics, also you don't, but I know that all bodies over absolute zero emit IR. YOU MUST KNOW THIS SIMPLE MATTER.

Terahertz radiation (or millimetre waves, with a frequency of 1012 Hz) consists of light waves with a wavelength in between microwaves and normal infrared radiation. Terahertz radiation can be used for imaging of concealed objects such as weapons, medical imaging, and the detection of certain chemicals such as explosives and drugs. All objects at room temperature emit a continuous stream of terahertz radiation. We are particularly interested in terahertz pulses with a duration around a picosecond (10-12 s). Such ultrashort pulses are important for fundamental studies of novel materials, the study of biological processes, and particle accelerators. The generation and application of terahertz pulses has been studied intensely for the past 10 years or so with now about 500 publications a year. The Strathclyde group led by Klaas Wynne (http://bcp.phys.strath.ac.uk/the_group/people/klaas_wynne.php) has been working in this area since 1996.

http://bcp.phys.strath.ac.uk/pr/07pr1.php


http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:mCsvDU-9Oo4J:coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/resources/paper_products/print_publication_pdf/eta_car_back_panels.pdf+all+metals+emits+infrared+ university&hl=es&ct=clnk&cd=56&gl=py (http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:mCsvDU-9Oo4J:coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/resources/paper_products/print_publication_pdf/eta_car_back_panels.pdf+all+metals+emits+infrared+ university&hl=es&ct=clnk&cd=56&gl=py)

And 1,000 like this you can found with some study. You're a sample who must be redirected to the school!! :lol:

Insist with your chromium, your ruby laser and maser, you master of the negativity. And what if you show me a classic GENERAL formula, you the master in physics, eh? :eek: What!!! :eek: :eek:

Show me all the formulas you want, these no quit what I know in use for detect via IR beam! :razz: And also nothing to see GENERAL FORMULAS with DERIVATED APPLICATIONS. IF YOU DON'T KNOW, YOU CAN FOUND USES OF GENERAL PRINCIPLES. If you don't know, the world of the energy is vaste!!! Do you see the difference? 8)

Is very easy AND YOU DON'T KNOW!!! :lol: Hate me!!! Go, you master in nothing!!!

I insist: the only you know about IR is regarding the remote control of your DVD and TV. But you can use for other purposes... if you put SOME EFFORT!!! :cool:

Leave Hung in peace, who has more experience, 1,000 times, than you.

Hi,
so you have discovered thermal noise sources. :lol:

Master of physics... a metal bar produce a continuos spectrum of radiations so how your LRL could discriminate a metal from another ?

BS.

The article you posted is about nanotechnology... but you don't posted this:

"A new process has been discovered producing pulsed terahertz-radiation using a nano-engineered material. Terahertz (or millimeter-wave) radiation is important to homeland security by being able to detect explosives, drugs, and concealed weapons.
A nanostructured surface was made with grooves in glass and a few nanometers of gold deposited on top. This was specifically designed such that ultrashort laser pulses could whip up waves in the sea of electrons present in the metal. "

Then you want people here belive your garage-made detector could do something similar. ALL BS.

At room temperature you cannot detect or disc any metal using that terahertz spot radiations you talk about with your bricolage box of nothing.

The fact that an electron of an atom of something change energy state and release a radiation does't mean the whole e.g. metal bar emit radiations, and if you say so you are totally wrong and you LIE.

Treasure = Energy you wrote, think on this

Fool's equation I say.

Treasure emit light, visible light, think on this

BS you wrote here for naives and fools like you.

At room temperature no metal bar emit visible light or IR like you want people belive. Nothing you can detect with garage made stuff, nothing visible, you have to count photons with special devices.

You filled your post with scientific papers where your assertions have nothing scientific.

And yes laser are good examples cause you can read, in the part you don't posted here:

"This was specifically designed such that ultrashort laser pulses could whip up waves in the sea of electrons present in the metal."

Cause phenomenons are strictly related.

And the "GENERAL FORMULA" is the one they use everyday, not old or unuseful thing. It's the formula for that calculations.

But you don't know anything of this... and wanna make people belive that treasures emit light.

You confirm that are a NONSCIENTIST. :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

The 'pearl' above is among the very reasons I decided to leave this forum for a while and now after receiving an invitation to join another discussion forum I'm seriously thinking in quitting this one for good. No rewards.

This will be my last input on Mineoro detectors as sometimes I feel I deal with retarded people here, specially having to state the same things over and over again.

Carl, what amazes me in you is that you pose as a supposed scientific mind but you already gave me evidence that you are a rookie in those matters. But at least with the Mineoro detector in hand and also supposedly doing some tests, I would at least expect reasonable conclusions and inputs about it. But no, you speak nonsenses about the device's working principle even a layman would not say.
Mr. Brains, there's no such thing as the MIneoro receiving from front and back. Just because it's got a loop antenna it's in cardioid pattern by the ionic chamber, Einstein. If this was the case, all gold I found would be in the opposite way. I won't waste my time here explaining things about the directivity, even a person with 2 neurons would understand.

Also, if you still have not found gold with it, it's your problem, not mine or Mineoro's. You either DOES NOT WANT IT TO HAPPEN or worse, you have bad intention and don't want admit the device in fact does. I sincerelly hope you don't get to this extreme, but coming from you, nobody knows.

Keep pretending the device is useless, In fact all LRLs in your hands are useless. If I were you I would worry and would go see a doctor right away.
Sorry pal, I cannot take your 'make believe' claims anymore.
This is my last input towards you and the FG80 subject. I tried to give you good info. But incompetence and twisted attitudes have limit.


Regards.

Hi,
now are you happy ? :razz:

And when you said that you have to put to "x" level the knob you actually say that at max sens you cannot operate your Mineoro's in the car without it beeps all over the way.
:lol:

As I said.

Of course, also with the zahori I made... if I null the input signal or set small the gain I cannot ear beeps from sparks in the engine.
It's obvious Hung, master of nothing.

But it's supposed you use the "device" at hi-sens or max-sens to find stuff from 1Mile away ? Or not ? ;)

Now go find your next gold vein. :lol:

ALL BS.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Max, why you're mixing applications with general laws? Eh?? :eek:

Where is your teacher? I will strike him with a stick. Or maybe you, first, bad pupil. Learn!! Learn!! Learn!!

Best regards

Nihil Roma Maius

Have nothing to learn by you or Esteban or Hung.

ALL BS. :razz:

Oh, yes , treasure emit VISIBLE light ! :lol:

[Max]

Hi Esteban,

I would not worry about what Max claims about infrared. Everybody who read his posts knows he does not know what he is talking about for infrared emissions. You cannot expect him to read any science reports about this. He already established in a different post that he is a real busy guy and he does not have time for reading lots of science reports. I think maybe he don't care what you show the Caltech professor says.

This is a very interesting thing you talk about. Let me see if I understand correctly:
You say I should take an inrfared LED or an infrared laser, and pulse it on and off with a square wave, not sine wave at maybe 400HZ. This beam should be aimed at an old buried metal target. Correct?

If I understand your idea correctly for sending a beam to the long time buried metal, then my question is: How do I measure phase shift? Do I look for a change in the phase of the transmitted light beam frequency? or do I look for a diffenrence between the transmitted and the reflected beam? I would think a reflected beam will show very close to the same time as the beam sent when the target is at close distance.

In order to measure a phase shift, I would think it is necessary to use a very fast IC to see the small shift in a light beam time. Am I correct? Do we need to use methods similar to radar ranging techniques? What kind of circuit do you use to see the phase change?

Also, has this phenomena been seen in different light frequencies besides the usual infrared diodes and lasers? Do you know of any experiments with the red lasers or the 532nm high power green lasers?

Best wishes,
J_P


"Everybody who read his posts knows he does not know what he is talking about for infrared emissions. "

Eh ?

You also say that treasures emit light ? visible and IR ? :lol:

A bunch of photons and they see the light ! :razz:

Funny.

TONS OF BS.

YOU ARE ANOTHER NONSCIENTIST.

[Max]

Hi,
Heat an thermal are the primary source of IR radiation.

What a discovery !

What I've said for human body ? Eh ? :razz: Read back.

But now think at a metal bar at room temperature... then explain me how Esteban COUNT IR photons.

Yes counts. :lol: I wanna know ! :razz:

TONS OF BS. THIS IS ALL THIS TALKING ABOUT TREASURE EMITTING LIGHT! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi,
explain this:

"One time, my brother-in-law use my Zahori and go in a site they saw as a light emanated from the soil. They saw it 30 years ago. They arrive in the site and found a hole excavated for others, and the device beeps and beeps, only in the place, but NEAR the hole. The persons who previously excavated don't found the treasure. My brother-in-law and others can't excavate in the place because the signal "explode" around the hole, and can't centrate. Also the landlord, a rich man, don't wish to continue in it!

IC 3130 (input) BURN here! Treasure = energy! "

"Influence of the atmospheric pressure. Before rains, atmospheric pressure decreases and detection occurs more easyli. The pressure comprisses the phenomenom, and when atmospheric pressure is more low, the phenomenom reveals easyli. Is exactly as the people see a kind of light in treasure sites at night, in preference hours before rain. And this chemist phenomenom is liberated justly when atmospheric pressure is more low. This kind of phenomenom is well known by science, regarding emission of white light is sites of old bones. This light is produced by the phosphamine in the bones, who reacts with oxigen in the air.

Also, is a good oportunity for to define what is "halo"."

Oh yes... the bones... why not, this can explain the light.

But IR emission ??? He said treasure emit IR !

treasure = energy! Explain this.

WAGONS OF BS. :lol:

That's what I say.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

I'm the cure! ;)

[J_Player]

But metals, normally, don't emit IR. This is a BSyou still say that metals emit Infrared radiations ?

Where did you read that ?Eh ?

You also say that treasures emit light ? visible and IR ?

A bunch of photons and they see the light !

Funny.

TONS OF BS.

YOU ARE ANOTHER NONSCIENTIST.Originally posted by J_Player: "I would not worry about what Max claims about infrared. Everybody who read his posts knows he does not know what he is talking about for infrared emissions."

I believe that Esteban is correct when he says all things above absolute zero emit infrared.
I think all readers of this forum also believe this is correct. I don't think any reader in this forum needs to read what Esteban showed us the Caltech professors say about this to know it is true. I think most students learned this is a fact before they finished school. I think the only exception is you Max. I believe you are the only one who thinks certain things found in normal conditions do not emit infrared. This is why I say that "Everybody who read his posts knows he does not know what he is talking about for infrared emissions."

It could be possible I made a mistake. Maybe there is somebody else who agrees there are some things that do not emit infrared in normal conditions. But I don't know who else besides you, so if I had to choose to believe the Caltech professors or believe Max, I think I would believe the Caltech professors.

Do you want to call me a nonscientist? Go ahead. I don't care.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Originally posted by J_Player: "I would not worry about what Max claims about infrared. Everybody who read his posts knows he does not know what he is talking about for infrared emissions."

I believe that Esteban is correct when he says all things above absolute zero emit infrared.
I think all readers of this forum also believe this is correct. I don't think any reader in this forum needs to read what Esteban showed us the Caltech professors say about this to know it is true. I think most students learned this is a fact before they finished school. I think the only exception is you Max. I believe you are the only one who thinks certain things found in normal conditions do not emit infrared. This is why I say that "Everybody who read his posts knows he does not know what he is talking about for infrared emissions."

It could be possible I made a mistake. Maybe there is somebody else who agrees there are some things that do not emit infrared in normal conditions. But I don't know who else besides you, so if I had to choose to believe the Caltech professors or believe Max, I think I would believe the Caltech professors.

Do you want to call me a nonscientist? Go ahead. I don't care.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
Now thermal noise is light ? From when ?

Ok, call it light, there are photons ! OK, JP.

You are right, it's light ! :lol:

Why not.

For people that want belive BS even a single photon is "light"!
And they can also see it.

Best regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Hi Max,
Now thermal noise is light ? From when ?I made no claims that thermal noise is light or not in this forum. I believe I read those words in your post.

The claim I made is I will believe what the Caltech professors say about infrared. Not what you say.
Do you still want people to believe this? But metals, normally, don't emit IR. This is a BS.

you still say that metals emit Infrared radiations ?

Where did you read that ?

You may still call me a nonscientist if you want. I don't care

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi Max,
I made no claims that thermal noise is light or not in this forum. I believe I read those words in your post.

The claim I made is I will believe what the Caltech professors say about infrared. Not what you say.
Do you still want people to believe this?

You may still call me a nonscientist if you want. I don't care

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi JP,
this is a stupid polemic I think. You can of course get IR radiations and other kind if e.g. you heat up a piece of platinum to 1000 °C but we are talking here of "light" emission or "IR" (always light but IR frequency) emission by e.g. metal bars at room temperature, for me room temperature is around 25°C not 1000.

Now if you energize the platinum bar at 1000 degrees is obvious you get a strong emission , with continuos spectrum, of e.g. IR photons.
Easy to detect this. Nothing new.

At 25°C the IR emission of a piece of platinum is near zero.
You have to count photons.

I talked about thermal noise cause thermal is the cause of the small emission of what you and Esteban are talking about here.

A piece of e.g. gold at 25°C give the same amount of IR photons of one my fart.
Or maybe my fart emit much more IR ! :lol:

What you want detect that way ? My farts ? :razz:

That's the big picture. Have absolutely no meaning talking about of light or ir emission from metals at room temperature... cause a piece of plastic or a plant can emit thousand times more !

A small number of photons is generated by thermal and then ?
So what ?

Wanna use a photomultiplier-tube to see or count them ?

How to discriminate if an IR photon is generated by the soil itself, or a plant, or a piece of plastic, or a stone, or even some airborne particles ???

How that supposed IR photons could e.g. pass soil layers ? Have you asked yourself ?

Who talks of treasure emitting light want illude naives, I repeat again.

Caltech professors talk of things they can measure with costly machines and hi-technology devices, and they are right cause know physics.

I agree with them and know already that... Boltzman's experiencies are really old on the topic. Nothing new.

They can count even single photons emitted by my farts ! Can you !?
Or Esteban ???

How ? With garage-made detectors ?

C'mon... it's a stupid polemic you're doing here. You can't and Esteban also.

Treasure = energy for me have no meaning.

Or want really people belive that "Treasure=ENERGY"! :rolleyes:

So read my radical assertion of "no emission" (that is wrong if you want split hairs) as "too small to be detected by you". Just this.

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

What you want detect that way ? My farts ?

I didn't say I can detect anything, and I didn't ask for any of your fart BS. I asked Esteban about details of his circuitry. If you have problems with farts, please complain to somebody else.

If I want a lecture on how IR radiation works, I will read what the Caltech professors wrote, not what you wrote. I still think your statements about infrared are wrong, and the Caltech professors are right: But metals, normally, don't emit IR. This is a BS.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

I didn't say I can detect anything, and I didn't ask for any of your fart BS. I asked Esteban about details of his circuitry. If you have problems with farts, please complain to somebody else.

If I want a lecture on how IR radiation works, I will read what the Caltech professors wrote, not what you wrote. I still think your statements about infrared are wrong, and the Caltech professors are right:

Best wishes,
J_P

And what about "treasure = energy", what do you think about ? :lol:

IR LRL DETECTION = BS. That's my equation.

[Max]

I didn't say I can detect anything, and I didn't ask for any of your fart BS. I asked Esteban about details of his circuitry. If you have problems with farts, please complain to somebody else.

If I want a lecture on how IR radiation works, I will read what the Caltech professors wrote, not what you wrote. I still think your statements about infrared are wrong, and the Caltech professors are right:

Best wishes,
J_P

few photons are an emission !? :razz:

oh yes...sure, but you need a nuclear lab to detect them.

You don't say that to naives.

ALL BS. That's what you , Esteban and other LRL fanatics give here.

[Max]

and about your BS, you wrote this about iconos-md:

"Please forgive doubting skeptics. We know your long range locator really works."

You know their LRLs work ??? :lol:

You make DISINFORMATION HERE, and maybe also product placement or product tie-in for something till now nobody have tested.

How can you say "We know your long range locator really works."? explain this genius ! :razz:

Now call the professors at Caltech to give you some help ! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

I asked Esteban to explain how he built his circuit, not you. You have demonstrated you didn't know anything about how he constructed his circuit. Esteban really knew that answer, not you.

You also demonstrated you don't know the basics of Infrared emissions. I did not ask you for any information about Infrared. If you need somebody to listen to your theories about infrared, please ask somebody else to listen to you. I prefer the facts taught by the university professors, not your version: But metals, normally, don't emit IR. This is a BS.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

I asked Esteban to explain how he built his circuit. You have demonstrated you didn't know anything about what circuit he constructed, Esteban really knew that answer, not you. You also demonstrated you don't know the basics of Infrared emissions. I did not ask you for any information about Esteban's circuit or Infrared.

If you need somebody to listen to your theories about infrared, please ask somebody else to listen to you. I prefer the facts taught by the university professors, not your version:

Best wishes,
J_P

I've already explained.
But you don't answer my question about iconos! :lol:

[Max]

And what about "treasure = energy", what do you think about ? :lol:

EXPLAIN THIS, OR CALL CALTECH TO EAR THEIR LAUGHS.

IR LRL DETECTION = BS. That's my equation.

[Max]

Hi,
Now that you want appear scientific... call Caltech and show them this post by you !

Didn't you posted that ? :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is your science ? :razz:

NONSCIENTIST.

Best regards,
Max

[Max]

Now I understand why you think Esteban is right,

your is Caltech's science right ?

:razz:

[Max]

Am I the cure or not ? ;)

[Max]

Hi JP,
did you swapped the Mineoro's website for a "science website" ? :lol:

And now you speak here of science ! Shame ! :razz:

C'mon explain us the equation:

treasure = energy

or why you know so many things of iconos-md machines... that nobody have tested untill now...

Be proud of your past posts! of your "diversity" ! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Actually that image of trace amounts of ions moving up from the ground has been confirmed to be correct by thousands of reports by scientists all over the world. What is not correct is the ions becoming airborne. Did you forget this was a joke that Qiaozhi was first to recognize?This is not from a science website. :nono:
This is pseudoscientific rubbish from Mineoro. :razz:This thread may have all started out as a joke about Mineoro's claims that gold ions hover in the air above buried gold, but it lead to a large body of research that demonstrates and documents subterranean gold processing.

But you were not talking about ions in the soil, you were talking about your theories of infrared and trying to get me to listen to your concept. I still prefer what is taught in universities about infrared emissions, not your version:But metals, normally, don't emit IR. This is a BS.

you still say that metals emit Infrared radiations ?

Where did you read that ?

I don't really believe your theory of infrared emissions is correct, and I don't think you know the answers to how Esteban built his circuitry. Please direct your theories to someone else.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi,
I've explained my point. That Caltech scientists are right and I agree with them.

There are few IR photons ! Happy now ? :lol:
Have to repeat!

I've used wrong expression... but result is the same, you cannot detect them with a garage made detector like Esteban say. Less happy now ? :lol:

Now explain us :

treasure = energy

and why you claim iconos-md as working LRLs.

Explain that !

Gold ion clouds are scientific facts for you !? Still you claim this is a scientific fact ??? There's no cure for you ! :lol:

Have to post the picture again, cannot resist ! :razz:

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Your science is mineoro's science, so nonscience.

Then you are a NONSCIENTIST ! :lol:

[Max]

Hi,
no, no :nono:

you wrote of a "joke" only after Quiaozhi told you that was rubbish from mineoro... but before you referred it as a "science website"...

Just after that you changed version of the story.

So you read the www.mineoro (http://www.mineoro).... and never reported that your source for the picture was mineoro's website. Why ? Didn't you know mineoro before ?

Oh yeah, not intentional ! :lol:

I belive everything ! I'm a naive !

Facts say that you are another nonsense supporter... but mineoro is a burnt name/brand so you now talk about iconos-md as working device!

Didn't you ? :lol:

Here is your science website reference again. Enjoy. :razz:

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi,
You didn't know Mineoro before eh ? :lol:

And hope someone belive you !? :razz:

All the Remote sensing forum is full of Mineoro threads and references, tests, whatever...

BS, you did know it very well but posted the picture here saying that it come from a science website.

But Quiaozhi remembered that it come from Mineoro's and you had to change your story.

For me say everything JP.

YOU JUST WANT MISINFORMATE PEOPLE HERE.

Mr. Caltech :razz:

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Hi Max,

I see you continue to demand I explain all kinds of things.
I didn't come here to explain anything. I came here to ask questions from Carl and Esteban. What reason to you insist on trying to shove out your theories about infrared? You don't think I should be allowed to ask questions without your permission?

Don't expect me to believe your theories, and don't expect me to explain things that don't have anything to do with the questions I asked about the electronics Esteban used. You are not entitled to have me or anyone else believe you. I will believe what I think is correct, and I will answer questions I decide to answer, not what you demand.

No amount of your arguments will make me believe you know as much about infrared as the professors who teach it. But this also applies to all your other theories So you can forget about convincing me your idea is right and what scientists publish is wrong. Your continued repugnant postings will not change that.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

You repeat... I've already explained.
I have to repeat: this is your science and you are a nonsense supporter.

THIS IS YOUR SCIENCE ! SHAME !

[J_Player]

You didn't convince me Max. Did you convince yourself? Are you now in a mad panic to prove you're right? You are beginning to look silly now. Perhaps I should change my opinion of how smart I think you are.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi,
YOUR POST IS DATED 07/18/2007... and you want people here belive you doesn't know mineoro or that you haven't reported cause your thought was that theory was right in any case !? :lol:

Date say everything.

You changed story cause Quiaozhi remembered that was mineoro's rubbish and you wan't be labeled as a mineoro's supporter, having posted that picture.

FACTS.

NOT EMPTY WORDS.

Now you say that iconos-md are working devices ! That "we" know that !

You have no shame ! :lol:

That's your science, mineoro's fake pictures. Look.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

You didn't convince me Max. Did you convince yourself? Are you now in a mad panic to prove you're right? You are beginning to look silly now. Perhaps I should change my opinion of how smart I think you are.

Best wishes,
J_P

You posted that picture and reference to a "science website" not me. This is a fact.

Your repetition of the IR argumentation seems silly, cause I've explained 20 posts ago !

But maybe you read just Mineoro's stuff... :lol:

[Max]

Now sorry but I've to leave for now the silly competition... have to do some other things.

See you soon. :D

[J_Player]

One thing to note. It took 2 plus years to a member of this forums finally admit ionic activity in buried metals. Just like Mineoro claimed, results from work of both inventors for 50 years.

Who's the one posting links about ionic activity of metals lately? You tell me.Hi hung,

I posted more links about ionic activity of metals than anyone else here lately. But it's not true that it took 2 plus years for me to finally admit ionic activity in buried metals. I knew there are trace ions associated with long time buried metals before I joined this forum, and posted information to that effect shortly after I joined: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=41667

At the time I made that post, neither franco, me or Ivconic believed there were gold ions floating in the air. And none of the three of us has changed our mind about floating ions. It is a fact there can be traces of metal ions in the ground that slowly migrate to the surface from a long time buried target, just as Demasio says. There is a lot of documented evidence to support this. But no scientist has documented evidence to support a cloud of gold ions floating 7.2 feet in the air above this target. The floating gold ion cloud theory is easy to disprove. The entire notion that a LRL or any other instrument can sense a stationary cloud of metal ions hovering in the air above a buried target is not possible in my opinion.

So there is no new revelation, I say metal ion traces can form in the soil from a metal object over a long time, the same as I did shortly after I joined the forum. The only thing that changed is I posted a lot of links to show where people could read some proof about these metal ions in the soil.

You wouldn't have any links where we could read similar proof published by scientists to support Damasio's claim the ions hover 7.2 feet in the air above the target, would you?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Also, if you still have not found gold with it, it's your problem, not mine or Mineoro's.
Wow! I wonder what would happen if Garrett, Whites, Fisher, Tesoro, Minelabs, etc., were to state this about their own detectors?
Shame on you Hung. :nono: You could get sacked from your job at the Mineoro Marketing Department for saying such things. :lol:

You either DOES NOT WANT IT TO HAPPEN or worse, you have bad intention and don't want admit the device in fact does. I sincerelly hope you don't get to this extreme, but coming from you, nobody knows.
Keep pretending the device is useless, In fact all LRLs in your hands are useless. If I were you I would worry and would go see a doctor right away.
At last you've admitted it! The fact that the Mineoro FG80 needs to be believed-in for it to work. So skeptics beware. You'll never get an LRL to work, however hard you try. First you must forget all the physics you were taught at school, college or university, then pay your dues to the Church of Mineoro. Then after years of practice and self-delusion, followed by frequent occurences of selective memory, you might reach the same level of incompetence as Hung. Then you should visit the doctor and request euthanasia. :D

Sorry pal, I cannot take your 'make believe' claims anymore.
Likewise. :razz:

This is my last input towards you and the FG80 subject.
Anyone want to place a bet on how long it takes before Hung's next post? :rolleyes:

I tried to give you good info. But incompetence and twisted attitudes have limit.
Define "good info".:frown:

[J_Player]

At last you've admitted it! The fact that the Mineoro FG80 needs to be believed-in for it to work. So skeptics beware. You'll never get an LRL to work, however hard you try. First you must forget all the physics you were taught at school, college or university, then pay your dues to the Church of Mineoro. Then after years of practice and self-delusion, followed by frequent occurences of selective memory, you might reach the same level of incompetence as Hung. Then you should visit the doctor and request euthanasia. :D But there are more 'make believe" claims we must believe before being accepted to the hung chapter of the church of Mineoro. Do you think you will be accepted by the high priest of Mineoro before you agree to the following oaths?:

• Do you swear you believe all Mineoro FG series LRLs can find fresh gold even if hung never shows you any Mineoro finding anything and nobody on earth is willing to demonstrate it finding treasure?

• Do you swear you believe hung recently found a 500 year old legendary treasure in the middle of a large city, even if there have been no news reports about this legendary find?

• Do you swear you believe hung has completed secret mods to his RangerTell that allows it to detect gold and silver coins a mile away?

• Do you swear you believe hung found gold veins in an undisclosed location of the forest that will never be revealed or recovered, and can't be verified by anything except hung's claim it is true?

• Did you send in your check to have Mineoro send you a new FG80 that REALLY, REALLY finds fresh gold?

• Do you swear you believe this was hung's last post in the Geotech forum?

• Do you swear you will contiunue to believe all hung says, even after his next post in the Geotech forum?


:nono: Don't expect any Mineoro or RangerTell locator to work until the high priest of Mineoro annoints you in his cornbread-eating ceremony after you take these oaths!
:barf:

[Nihil Roma Maius]

Max wrote regarding halo:

Same happened to me, before I saw it.
I didn't want belive it to exist before I've seen with my eyes the strange phenomenon. Then I've changed idea about.

Ahhh! You can "see" the halo!!! Ehhh!!! :eek: Where is your science background, so!!!


* * * * * * * * *

Continue Max, the "halo viewer", the illuminato :lol: :

I've seen it with my eyes... that's why I'm sure of that it exist.

Cannot explain why... have just some ideas.


You need go to doctor, he has a good dosis of "Haloperidol". Because you SEE the halo, seems 1/2 or 1 1/2 psicotic grade!:lol: Or "Alopurinol" for diseases of advanced ages.

have just some ideas.

"Ideas". No idea you have about it. Be factual!

If you measure is other thing, but you "see" the halo. Is more impossible than to see light (a kind a flamme) near or in treasure sites, reported for 1,000 persons!

I understand. You see the halo causes severals solvents, alcohol, acids and cigars (your complicate technic for to cleaning PCB)! Under extreme conditions, you can see also the phantom of the opera. :lol:

Wait, I have more and more for you, dictator of the science! I'll drop it for our diversion!!!

PS: Do you see the red halo? :lol:

[Nihil Roma Maius]

Very frequently, Max wrote:

I'm the cure.

Ahh!! Better, you're the light here!!! You're an extreme case!

Seems I'm bad, I'm nationwide, remember, the same style of RObert! Also you was one of the main promotor!

Doctor, here your BFO. :lol: :D If you're stressed, I can added more stress for you! Because you not acting with correction in forums!

PS: maybe you can hear few hertz with it.

[Max]

Hi,
didn't you wrote that ? :)

So you have seen too... or you just want people belive halo in involved in LRLs ?

I've seen the effect by sensitive MDs... few cms more than maximum in-air detection.
Many people reported the same and phenomenon, though controversial and unexplained, is known in the TH community.


So what ?
That doesn't mean I have to belive treasures emit light ! :lol:
Have I ?

You report of more than 1,000 persons that saw this...
I don't and don't know of anyone claiming that before Esteban, you and some other LRL fanatic or dreamer.

Fact that there could be some IR or visible frequency photons from something doesn't mean you could see that. Actually when you see e.g. a light ray... you see effects of billions of photons on some aerosol particles... not few.

To "see" them you have to use e.g. avalanche devices, e.g. photomultipliers tubes... but I cannot see anything of that in e.g. Mineoro's or Esteban's things.

Light from treasure (you can detect) = BS.
IR LRL = BS.
{Treasure = Energy} = BS
treasure emit light visible by human eye = BS..

These are my equations.

But if you have proofs that a piece of METAL AT ROOM TEMPERATURE EMIT LIGHT A HUMAN BEING CAN SEE... SHOW US. :lol:

I wanna see too that light! :rolleyes:

FOR ME WHAT YOU SAY, THAT METAL AT ROOM TEMPERATURE EMIT LIGHT A HUMAN BEING CAN SEE, IS PURE BS.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Very frequently, Max wrote:

I'm the cure.

Ahh!! Better, you're the light here!!! You're an extreme case!

Seems I'm bad, I'm nationwide, remember, the same style of RObert! Also you was one of the main promotor!

Doctor, here your BFO. :lol: :D If you're stressed, I can added more stress for you! Because you not acting with correction in forums!

PS: maybe you can hear few hertz with it.

Do you hit horses with it ? :lol:

[Nihil Roma Maius]

So you have seen too... or you just want people belive halo in involved in LRLs ?

I've seen the effect by sensitive MDs... few cms more than maximum in-air detection.
Many people reported the same and phenomenon, though controversial and uneplained, is known in the TH community.

Ahh! Only metal detector can!!! Another instruments, no. Democracy! :lol: Also I know the difference with old items, but you "SEE". Doctor, the solution for the equation of your BSs is Haloperidol.

[Max]

Hi,
so now is halo about democracy ???

You say that your LRL see it but then Esteban said first...

Isn't him the expert of LRL ? :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Nihil Roma Maius]

Simple to understand. Only MD can, another instruments no, or is very difficult to you understand it? You're the Doctor Haloperidol.

[Max]

Simple to understand. Only MD can, another instruments no, or is very difficult to you understand it? You're the Doctor Haloperidol.

Hi,
well... I think other persons use heavy dose of it from time to time...

Read after few days what Esteban said.

No shame. :lol:

Contradict himself. :razz:

Or maybe is a secondary effect of LRLs... who knows !? :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

So Nihil... is good or bad ??? :lol:

Choose one !

[Nihil Roma Maius]

Yes, of course, IF HALO IS GOOD FOR MD, ALSO IS GOOD FOR ELECTRONIC LRL. THIS IS DEMOCRACY!

[Nihil Roma Maius]

Max wrote:

Hi ivconic,
it seems exist and no scientific proven theory about!
I know you are not LRLs addicted.
I think the same of LRLs: they don't work, can't work.

Do you can assure it all the time in the rest of your life? :lol:

Skepticism is one thing, but "negatoricism" is anti-science.

[hung]

JPlayer,

Your animosity towards me is not justified, illogical and unfair. If you are really serious about researching LRLs, then you are a controversy. Esteban used and still uses Mineoro detectors as I do. He reported as I did, several findings he made with those. The last one I remember was a pocket watch found by him and Alonso with a DC2006. So what’s your problem?
If you’re not convinced about my claims and findings, then I may also not convinced of your real interest in researching about LRLs just like the ‘scientists’ here who have vested interests in fighting back the fact.
Since you directly quoted some questions to me I will care to answer them bellow.

Can you explain why we should believe a Mineoro LRL can find treasure when nobody on earth is willing to demonstrate it doing that?

First of all I will delete all the reundandy in your post regarding ‘why we sould believe’ as I wil answer it just once next. Bear in mind, I don’t want to anybody believe in anything. I told this million of times before. I just report facts and experiences I have. If you don’t believe in them, it’s your prerrogative. It WON’T EVER change the fact it’s true. I am not inventing things. So let’s first make it clear. I don’t care at all about wheter you think I claim is true or not. It changes nothing.
Clear on that? OK, Let’s continue with you question.

It’s not true that nobody is willing to demonstrate finding treasure with the Mineoro.
Mineoro’s brazilian site is full of people who cared to display their faces and experiences. I know 80% of the people there personally.
I agree that many Mineoro users however wish to remain incognito for personal reasons. I respect that. Last week for instance my friend at Mineoro told me about a person in Peru who detected lots of gold in Cuzco, with a FG80. He wants to remain unkown. Mineoro respects that.
Damasio never refused and in fact loves to give demonstrations to people who visit Mineoro. Unfortunately he’s been ill and still could not get permission by doctors to travel to US. If you are really interested in kowning about Mineoro. Go direct to the source. Travel there and see for yourself. Otherwise you will remain in this forum for 50 years unfairly bashing a device or at least never getting a definite conclusion.
Many users here still did not find anything. Does it mean the device does not work?
You tell me.
Question answered.

Can you explain why we should believe you recently found a 500 year old legendary treasure in the middle of a large city, when there have been no news reports about this legendary find?

I can’t believe you posted this.I really can’t believe you just said that.
So you really expected to watch this on CNN News?
Either you’re the greatest naïve in the world or the purest soul on earth. Either case you are dead as THunter man!
Without further add ons which would fall in the ‘non sectur’, let me tell you this. Esteban gave an equation here: Treasure=Energy, well I will add another easy and powerful one: Treasure Recovery Success = Secrecy + Secrecy + Secrecy + Hard Work.
Simple isn’t it?
PS. Treasure found is exactly 444 years old. It was hidden in 1563.

Can you explain why we should believe you have completed mods to a RangerTell that allows it to detect gold and silver coins a mile away?

This is incorrect info. The mod I did in the RT unit was a pre mod which later allowed the development of the prototype ot my LRL system soon to be released. The prototype according to our research could reach a coin 1 mile away, even more, depending on the bandwidth employed and other things.
The RT has nothing to do with my LRL system except it showed our system possible.
The mod I did in the RT was making it fixed with no swivel and adding some amp , a VU, other things and some imagination, something many here don’t have. It worked.

Can you explain why we should believe you found gold veins in the forest that can't be verified by anything except your claim it is true?

Non sectur.
Finding gold veins with the PDC, FG, etc. is common place here in Brazil. In its central region dozens of Mineoro detectors find gold veins in almost a weekly basis for miners. So this is so natural here.


Can you explain why we should believe this is your last post after demonstrating at least three times the past few months it is not?

I don’t remember if I stated this in the past. I told here in the last few days I would not go over again to the Mineoro topic regarding FG. You can verify this by seeing my last post to Carl. I will not go over this topic again. I am going over this here in respect to your questions.
In fact I will not be posting here anymore, except in case I have to defend myself and despite of that I will only post if I find it relevant to do. I will choose.
I will join another forum which looks promising now. I’m also a member of a high physics forum where true scientific matters can be discussed.
I like to talk those subjects but not here. So after being sucessful in gold finding and developing my LRL system, nothing else is left for me here.
So this present forum is dead for me.

Do you have any credible evidence to support any of these stories you have told?

Again, this is not important for me. See, I don’t want people to believe or expect anything. I’m the one who knows it’s true. That’s all that matters nothing else.

Haven't you read the Intro note Carl posted in this forum, where he says: "Be factual. If you make an extraordinary claim, be prepared to get challenged." And now you're whining when people think you're fullo BS and challenge you?

Carl’s claim is the one which is full of BS. In fact people here don’t perceive this. All he wants is promotion. I once said that I believe 90% of the LRLs he reported work or at least work to some extent. I proved to myself for instance that the RT unit works. So what he thinks, say or report are not relevant to me anymore. In fact they never were. My grandpa once said: “Learn with your own experience. Don’t rely on the others’ “

:) Cheers.

[hung]

Esteban,

There's something more effective to employ in your concept than infra red.
You can utilize optoacoustic tunable filters or Bragg cells to acomplish what you want.
If you wish we may discuss this in that other forum.
Regards.

[Max]

Braggs' cells are the cure ? :lol:

[Max]

This is my LRL-rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My LRL-rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My LRL-rifle, without me, is useless. Without my LRL-rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will... My LRL-rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit... My LRL-rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strengths, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard my legs, my arms, my eyes and my heart against damage. I will keep my LRL-rifle clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will... Before God, I swear this creed. My LRL-rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life... So be it, until victory is LRL's and there is no enemy, but peace!

Is that you John Wayne? :D

[Esteban]

I agree that many Mineoro users however wish to remain incognito for personal reasons. I respect that. Last week for instance my friend at Mineoro told me about a person in Peru who detected lots of gold in Cuzco, with a FG80. He wants to remain unkown. Mineoro respects that.

Do you know pics of great treasures found with regular MD? Of course any MD can found, but people is reluctance for to show these.

[Qiaozhi]

If you don’t believe in them, it’s your prerrogative. It WON’T EVER change the fact it’s true. I am not inventing things.
Constantly repeating "it's a fact" and "it's true" will not make it so, however many times you say it.

So let’s first make it clear. I don’t care at all about wheter you think I claim is true or not. It changes nothing.
Actually, you do care. That's why you cannot stop posting this pseudoscientific nonsense.

It’s not true that nobody is willing to demonstrate finding treasure with the Mineoro. Mineoro’s brazilian site is full of people who cared to display their faces and experiences.
This is the usual subjective stuff that you claim as evidence. Only objective results are acceptable. If you make fantastic claims, then you must supply real proof, not anecdotes.

Many users here still did not find anything. Does it mean the device does not work? You tell me.
Yes - this means exactly that. They don't work. :nono:

This is incorrect info. The mod I did in the RT unit was a pre mod which later allowed the development of the prototype ot my LRL system soon to be released. The prototype according to our research could reach a coin 1 mile away, even more, depending on the bandwidth employed and other things.
It is just this sort of nonsense that makes a complete mockery of you claims. The Ranger-Tell Examiner consists of a cheap calculator glued to a plastic box that contains some nonsense-wired electronics. It's basically a dowsing device with some added gizmos to fool the unwary. If this is what you've modified to create your new wonderful LRL, then you deserve all the criticism that you receive. :razz:

The RT has nothing to do with my LRL system except it showed our system possible. The mod I did in the RT was making it fixed with no swivel and adding some amp , a VU, other things and some imagination, something many here don’t have. It worked.
Of course it did! :rolleyes:
Oh look, there goes another flying pig. :lol:

Can you explain why we should believe this is your last post after demonstrating at least three times the past few months it is not? I don’t remember if I stated this in the past. I told here in the last few days I would not go over again to the Mineoro topic regarding FG. You can verify this by seeing my last post to Carl. I will not go over this topic again. I am going over this here in respect to your questions.
Another case of selective memory.

In fact I will not be posting here anymore, except in case I have to defend myself and despite of that I will only post if I find it relevant to do. I will choose.
Strike one then...

I will join another forum which looks promising now. I’m also a member of a high physics forum where true scientific matters can be discussed. I like to talk those subjects but not here. So after being sucessful in gold finding and developing my LRL system, nothing else is left for me here.
So this present forum is dead for me.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Goodbye then.:nono:

Again, this is not important for me. See, I don’t want people to believe or expect anything. I’m the one who knows it’s true. That’s all that matters nothing else.
Me thinks you protest too much.

Carl’s claim is the one which is full of BS.
You're the expert. :D

I once said that I believe 90% of the LRLs he reported work or at least work to some extent. I proved to myself for instance that the RT unit works.
Well that's your credibility shot to pieces.

The Ranger-Tell Examiner -> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[J_Player]

[Sorry, I accidentally made this post in the wrong thread, so I repeat it here where it belongs - J_P]Be factual. If you make an extraordinary claim, be prepared to get challenged.

Originally posted by hung
Carl’s claim is the one which is full of BS. In fact people here don’t perceive this. All he wants is promotion. I once said that I believe 90% of the LRLs he reported work or at least work to some extent. I proved to myself for instance that the RT unit works.Hi hung,

Carl made no claim, nor did he make a promotional statement in his intro note: "Be factual. If you make an extraordinary claim, be prepared to get challenged". This is simply one of the three rules he chose to keep his forum fair. It doesn't even make sense to say it is a claim. There is no claim implied, simply a statement that you should expect to be challenged when you make an extraordinary claim in this forum. Your animosity towards me is not justified, illogical and unfair. If you are really serious about researching LRLs, then you are a controversy.

I have no animosity toward you. I think you are a nice guy, one of the most polite LRL proponents in this forum. In fact your are probably a great person to spend a couple hours at the cantina with an ice cold refreshing beer where people tell "true stories" to add some spice to an otherwise dull day. And you're welcome to come visit if you come to the USA. Be sure to bring your LRLs so we can go find some long time buried gold. I know several locations where we can recover some good ore deposits as well as legendary treasures that go back as far as 467 years, and worth millions in gold scap value alone. This is all documented by local historians and records kept at the University of California. I will be happy to report exactly what your LRLs find in a long article on a professional web page, including videos of the treasure being recovered, so all will know the exact facts. I will also post the facts in this forum, and links to the videos.

If I am a controversy, it does not disturb me. I don't think it's possible to discuss the technical details of buried metal science in this forum without becoming controversial. The only way I can maintain any credibility is by showing believable evidence to support my claims. So far, I haven't seen the educated skeptics come and prove the claims I made are false. Qiaozhi quickly backed away from arguing against my claims about ions from buried metals moving in the ground as Damasio said, and Carl didn't even bother to challenge what I presented. I can only presume this happened because I have an enormous body of evidence made by published scientists to support what I said, not hearsay or fairy tale stories, or tests made in some secret laboratory that cannot be demonstrated.

This brings us back to what you claim is unfair. There is no animosity, only a disbelief in a whole lot of stories you told that sound like BS. The stories you told are being challenged because they are extraordinary to the point of disbelief, and there is nothing to substantiate them. Keep in mind, this is primarily a technical forum, not a news story forum or a fairy tale forum. People come here to exchange technical information, not to hear outlandish stories with no technical details to support them.

When I look at the stories you told since you arrived, I see no proof or anything to substantiate these stories except you say they are true. In fact a number of the stories you told have been shown to be false. The appearance is you are not coming here to report facts of your adventures. The appearance is you are coming here to brag about things that never happened. I see a series of incredible stories that we might expect a small child to tell to make the people around him think he is important and should be paid attention to. The problem is you told these incredible stories in a technical forum where the rules state you should be prepared to get challenged if you make an extraordinary claim, not at your local bar.

The collection of incredible stories you have told in this forum have put you to the top of my list of hilarious storytellers. Some of your stories have convinced me you know little or nothing about science, and you are only repeating generalities told to you by people like Damasio, Alonso, Myron Evans, or publications by people like Hutchinson. It seems apparent you have little understanding of any science, and are only repeating things you heard, many of which can be proven false. I would never compare you to Esteban. There is a big difference when Esteban actually constructs his own circuitry and builds his own experimental gadgets to test, and shows actual details. This is the purpose of this forum -- to exchange technical information, not to brag about secret accomplishments that can't be substantiated.

Do you have any credible evidence to support any of these stories you have told?

Originally posted by hung:
Again, this is not important for me. See, I don’t want people to believe or expect anything. I’m the one who knows it’s true. That’s all that matters nothing else.

Not important to you? Really? Then why are you even bothering to answer quotes I made? because believing your stories is not important? Did you return to this forum several times after saying you would leave because you don't care? The appearance from my point of view is you want people to believe the extraordinary stories you told without providing anything credible to substantiate them. The appearance is you find it important to brag about accomplishments that you really didn't make.
Or am I wrong? Is there something you haven't told us yet that would make us believe your stories?

In all the time you tried to convince people ions can form in the ground around buried metals, you never provided any scientific proof like I did. You only provided a lot of unsubstantiated claims.

Can you provide some scientific proof that metal ions hover 7.2 feet in the air above a long time buried treasure as claimed by Mineoro?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Seden]

Hung,

I've been keeping an open mind to your project and still trying,but I completely agree with Qiaozhi that referring to Ranger Tell blew your credibility out the window. Then you said that your device is different from RT,so that gives me hope but please man, distance yourself from Ranger Tell!!
Stick to telling us what you can about what your doing and the science behind it.

Randy

[Max]

I agree that many Mineoro users however wish to remain incognito for personal reasons. I respect that. Last week for instance my friend at Mineoro told me about a person in Peru who detected lots of gold in Cuzco, with a FG80. He wants to remain unkown. Mineoro respects that.

Do you know pics of great treasures found with regular MD? Of course any MD can found, but people is reluctance for to show these.






Hi Esteban,
I agree with you... there are few public domain.

But I've seen some on TV... and know that e.g a depth PI found a very important thing in Germany... it become public domain cause the people found the stuff tryed to illegally sell it and then german police captured them and recovered the "treasure".

Also I've seen just about 1 month ago that 2 THs in UK (dad and son) found a very interesting Viking's "treasure"... many gold items, but also iron relics... using just MDs. Now stuff is at British Museum.

So, actually people found stuff of great value using MDs. And there are pictures.
There are at least 20 examples of public domain huge discoveries made using MDs, of enormous historic-scientific (and economic) value.

But you are right on this point. There are few big discoveries made with MDs that become public domain... respect maybe to the actual number in the world...mostly cause many countries' legislation make explicit prohibition to "normal" people /THs of making researches with MDs or just even of own an MD ! :rolleyes:

In places like UK, mostly England is not so rare that people that found stuff show that cause it's completely legal there searching/recovering and even selling stuff... if some rules are observed (e.g. the "Treasure Act" rules).

Best regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi,
here the picture of the "german" thing I mean.

You can read the story on wikipedia :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebra_sky_disk

The Nebra's sky disk is probably the greatest archeo discovery of the last 50years.

There is a BBC-Horizon video/doc about it... but I cannot find at now.

Anyway, it's real and was found with a depth PI.

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

The good news in UK is when the museum wants your treasure, they pay you fair money for it, they don't just take it away and give nothing. :super:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi,
here is one picture posted by BM and available at BBC website:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/6906482.stm

Then there is the article by The Independent:

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article2785479.ece

Also this is real, important and found with conventional MDs.

Now I'd like to see something similar found with a LRL, if someone has. :rolleyes:

Best regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Category of treasures deppends of the pasts of nations. In America treasures are no more 500 years, except objects from cultures maya, inca, aztec, olmeca, etc., others by wars and revolutions. Search for ancient treasures of these cultures is prohibited because ends in illegal commerce. Shipwrecks are the most important in quantity, maybe... The gold and silver extracted by Spain and pirated by England and France... Thieves robs the thieves! The pirats' activity was licit for the eternal war between these three nations...

[Qiaozhi]

Now I'd like to see something similar found with a LRL, if someone has. :rolleyes:

Best regards,
Max
Actually this is not a useful request. There is plenty of anecdotal and subjective "evidence" available for LRLs. You only have to look at the Mineoro website to see this. Photos of treasure allegedly detected with an LRL are not proof.
Of course, you could say the same thing about the many photos of treasure disscovered using a conventional metal detector. Although in this instance there is no dispute that the technology actually works.

[Max]

Actually this is not a useful request. There is plenty of anecdotal and subjective "evidence" available for LRLs. You only have to look at the Mineoro website to see this. Photos of treasure allegedly detected with an LRL are not proof.
Of course, you could say the same thing about the many photos of treasure disscovered using a conventional metal detector. Although in this instance there is no dispute that the technology actually works.

Hi,
no... you misunderstud my point.

I asked for "something similar" not just funny pictures.

I mean documentation by newspapers, or e.g. BBC or other realiable information channel.

I've posted the address of BBC, The Independent... and pictures of e.g. British Museum, all reliable sources.

The Nebra disk is actually exposed near Nebra, in a new built museum, you can see in the picture.

Are all real things, documented: I asked an example of a big treasure claimed found with an LRL that has same kind of reliable documentation.

Anyone can give one single link ?

Kind regards,
Max

PS: in the picture the new museum where is exposition of disk near Nebra.

[Dell Winders]

http://www.treasureamerica.com/7/viewtopic.php?t=20

[Dell Winders]

Now I'd like to see something similar found with a LRL, if someone has. :rolleyes:

Best regards,
Max


http://www.treasureamerica.com/7/viewtopic.php?t=20

[Qiaozhi]

http://www.treasureamerica.com/7/viewtopic.php?t=20
Now you are the one to misunderstand Max's request.
He's asking for:
I mean documentation by newspapers, or e.g. BBC or other realiable information channel.
With all due respect, your own website has a vested interest in promoting LRLs, and is not a reliable information channel. :nono:

[Esteban]

Here like a channel, look how run the images!:D

http://www.electroscopes.com/members/finds_gallery.asp

[Esteban]

Wikipedia can help you in definition. Who insert this info? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :lol: :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_range_locator

[Esteban]

Help me!!! Is this the correct definition? :lol:

[Qiaozhi]

Here like a channel, look how run the images!:D

http://www.electroscopes.com/members/finds_gallery.asp
Neither is this a reliable channel. This is the Electroscope website that also has a vested interest in promoting LRLs. :nono:

[putrechigi]

hi esteban how is possible contact you in private? i have the photo for you

[J_Player]

You can send private messages by using the User CP at the top of the page. Click the User CP button, then click to send new messages. A window will open for you to post a message that will go only to the person you type in the top.

[Esteban]

Neither is this a reliable channel. This is the Electroscope website that also has a vested interest in promoting LRLs. :nono:

Of course, isn't a channel, do you see that is a joke? I wrote "like a channel" because pics runs!!! :razz:

[Max]

Wikipedia can help you in definition. Who insert this info? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :lol: :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_range_locator

Hi,
so you say that wikipedia informations about Nebra disk are fake ? :lol:

Then look at these :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6722953.stm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2004/stardisctrans.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A2207297

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1915398,00.html

Are these reliable for you ? :rolleyes:

Best regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi Esteban,
this is official website of museum holding the Nebra's skydisk (State Museum for Prehistory in Halle):

http://www.archlsa.de/sterne/

Now, I'd like to see something similar for LRL, reliable documentation I mean.

Have you or any others a single link ?

If so, please post it.

Kind regards,
Max

[putrechigi]

You can send private messages by using the User CP at the top of the page. Click the User CP button, then click to send new messages. A window will open for you to post a message that will go only to the person you type in the top.

thanks and sorry but REPLY i speak english litle:( :(

[Esteban]

Hi,
so you say that wikipedia informations about Nebra disk are fake ? :lol:


Max,

Nebra disk for me is real, I'm talking about definition of what is LRL. Who :rolleyes: :rolleyes: insert the definition... :D

[Max]

Hi,
so you say that wikipedia informations about Nebra disk are fake ? :lol:


Max,

Nebra disk for me is real, I'm talking about definition of what is LRL. Who :rolleyes: :rolleyes: insert the definition... :D

Hi,
who knows ? Maybe a disappointed LRL buyer... :lol:

Have importance ?

You can modify it if you feel definition is wrong. That's democracy. :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Hi Putrechigi

Few minutes ago sent an email. See:

[Max]

Hi,
I'd like to see something similar for LRL, reliable documentation of a found big treasure, I mean.

Have anyone a single link ?
If so, please post it.

Or nobody has even one link ??? Is that possible ??? :rolleyes:

Best regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi,
still nothing ? :rolleyes:

Where are you proud LRL manifacturers/dealers/buyers/owners ???

No link to post ? Why ?
Please give a sign...

Best regards,
Max

[Max]

LRL is dead ? :lol:

[Max]

Having a Small Range Locator (metal detector) that works is much better than having 100 Long Range Locators that find nothing! :lol:

This is the logic conclusion we must take ? :rolleyes:

Where is the damn link ?

[Nihil Roma Maius]

Esteban has posted dozens of photos (1978 to 2007), no other proofs have.

Conclussion: because his pics aren't in TV, National Geographic or for the style, those are a BIG LIE. Correct? :lol:

[Max]

Hi,
I've asked for "something similar" and not only Esteban.

Nobody answered.

I didn't asked for Esteban's photo-album... take your conclusion.

Mine is that nobody here have "something similar" to post. :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

... nobody here have "something similar" to post. :rolleyes:

Correct.:cool:

[J_Player]

They hiding true LRL stories and schematics so Max cannot read and build same circuit? :p


Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

They hiding true LRL stories and schematics so Max cannot read and build same circuit? :p


Best wishes,
J_P

Or simply there isn't any reliable documented LRL story. :rolleyes:

You have to belive in someone photoalbum... good luck. :lol:

[Esteban]

You have to belive in someone photoalbum... good luck. :lol:

Why not! If I must believe in your findings and pics, you must believe in mine! Democracy! :lol:

[Max]

You have to belive in someone photoalbum... good luck. :lol:

Why not! If I must believe in your findings and pics, you must believe in mine! Democracy! :lol:

Hi,
not my "findings" and "pictures"... my "findings" or "pictures" have no value, and even my words anyone could disagree with and contestate, cause I'm not an authority like e.g. British Museum is...

Others findings and pictures that came from use of conventional MDs... a working technology.... and declared in all their importance to the world by authorities and reliable media are important. :rolleyes:

The problem is that the absence of a single reliable ducumented case of big treasure claimed found by an LRL... give me the right of say that LRL-guys have no single reliable example their "pistols" actually found anything.

Even British Museum people understand the value of discoveries made with a metal detector... and there aren't dubts that, though many people use them without right experience or education and recover stuff without scientific methods, they were and are really useful in finding "treasures".

Big treasures, not fantasies or homemade pictures of who knows what... :lol:

Still can't see the link. Why I have to belive in your photoalbum ?
You are same time free of don't belive a single word or picture I post!
Democracy! :rolleyes:

But... YOU HAVE TO BELIVE BRITISH MUSEUM. YOU CANNOT THINK THEIR WORDS ARE FAKE...CAUSE OTHERWISE YOU'RE A FOOL ! :razz:

There are a number of examples like these that I don't post here to avoid annoying people with other readings.

But no single one good link to an LRL-discovered-treasure ? Why ? :rolleyes:


Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Of course, British Museum is out of discussion here. The problem is believe or not in the findings we post... :razz:

[Max]

Hi,
if someone show here a picture of something he said found with a metal detector and object is metallic and there is a reasonable probability that it will be detected at range indicated... why don't belive that person ?

But if someone say that found a coin buried at 3feet from 1 mile away using a startrek pistol... well... why belive him ?

Thats' the point. There are unrealistic claims... and homemade pictures can't say if it is just an joke or something else.

Is realistic think of finding a coin buried at 3feet from 1 mile away ??? :rolleyes:

For me is totally impossible.

For British Museum ? Well... we have to ask them... but I think if you'll ask you'll get lot of laughs... and maybe also a free ticket to visit expositions for free... to see real treasures , found with metal detectors, I mean. :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

The more far I found was 70 m and few depth for a single coin. :lol: This is more real...! :lol:

[Max]

Have you called BBC ? :lol:

Or maybe you can call... ehm also guinness :rolleyes:

70m for a single coin is good for guinness ! :razz:

[Esteban]

70m for a single coin is good for guinness ! :razz:

Yes, and is simple!!!

Regards

Esteban

[Max]

HI,
it's so easy that nobody will partecipate in the challenge... to find gold bars ,not a coin, and at much less distance, or also just under some paper cups ! :lol:

Very easy is saying here that it is easy.
Less easy is show to the public they really work. :rolleyes:

The only ease in all LRLs is claiming impossible results and/or sell them to naives. :lol:

All the rest simply doesn't work.

Kind regards,
Max

[Nihil Roma Maius]

You're sure doesn't works. I'm sure works. But, how much you –and others– work in this direction for to be sure?

Maybe classification of materials isn't the best, but detection of bad material at 3-5 meters is great, even an only oxidized nail or paper of cigarette's box!

Nobody can't judge since his inexperience. :nono:

Regards

Nihil Roma Maius

[J_Player]

...detection of bad material at 3-5 meters is great, even an only oxidized nail or paper of cigarette's box!
Nobody can't judge since his inexperience.Maybe the person who has the experience can win Carl's $25,000. 5 meters will work fine to win Carl's prize.

If you can find the hidden oxidized nail 7 times from 10 attempts, then you will return home with $25,000 USD for fiestas and mucha cerveza.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Hi J_P

You can win in natural conditions of long time buried metal sites, as battlefield or other old relic sites, but no under leonine conditions, yes under conditions dictated by nature of the phenomenom.

If you can find the hidden oxidized nail 7 times from 10 attempts, then you will return home with $25,000 USD for fiestas and mucha cerveza.

Best wishes,
J_P


Is not equal to plant NOW 10 oxidized nails than oxidized by natural corroded process for many years.

Best regards

Esteban

[Max]

Hi J_P

You can win in natural conditions of long time buried metal sites, as battlefield or other old relic sites, but no under leonine conditions, yes under conditions dictated by nature of the phenomenom.

If you can find the hidden oxidized nail 7 times from 10 attempts, then you will return home with $25,000 USD for fiestas and mucha cerveza.

Best wishes,
J_P


Is not equal to plant NOW 10 oxidized nails than oxidized by natural corroded process for many years.

Best regards

Esteban

Hi,

so you can never say if it works or not in controlled conditions:

Who has a test garden of >100 or >1000years old ? Who can build one with same conditions you say are needed ?

Answer is : NOBODY.

The only result of your assertions is that any controlled test cannot be made.
That leave the users the last way to test if an LRL work is actually buy it ! :lol:

You have first buy one, then test... so if you find nothing the dealer could always say that maybe there isn't any ancient buried anything where you tested the unit. :lol:

Too easy money I think.

But which kind of oxidation has e.g. gold ??? Which kind of e.g. halo could give you a gold item ???

I never found any gold item that showed halo! Never. I have experiences of halo from copper, brass, silver, lead...of course iron... BUT NOT GOLD.

For me fact that LRLs-guys pretend that their toys work only with long-time-buried stuff means just that they cannot win any serious challenge or test, so they can't actually prove their toys are really working as claimed.

So, the customer has to belive what a website or a dealer say... with the obvious result of a lot of frauds be performed.

Anyone could claim fantastic results... then giving no proof and steal money from your pockets.

If I buy a metal detector... and it doesn't detect metals the factory/manifacturer must provide a new or repair for free during warranty terms. Tesoro, as example, gives life warranty to any new unit sold !
It's a big warranty for the customer, and a very serious approach to business.

But if I buy an LRL and then cannot test if it works in controlled conditions, how can I hope of see again my money or that even warranty, if any, will be respected by manifacturer ??? They can always say that I cannot say their unit doesn't work... cause I need to test at their conditions, that are another nonsense.

With a metal detector I need a penny to see if is detected or not. Not so easy demonstrate that an LRL doesn't work as claimed if have to follow nonsense directives.

Result will be always: I'll lose money.

That's why I'll never buy an LRL. :lol:

Best regards,
Max

[Nihil Roma Maius]

Max wrote:

Who has a test garden of >100 or >1000years old ? Who can build one with same conditions you say are needed ?

Answer is : NOBODY.


If you read well, justly Esteban as independent experimenter go in inland, old sites, because he or nobody has virgin conditions, no removed soils, etc. This is clear for he and for all.


Max wrote:

But which kind of oxidation has e.g. gold ??? Which kind of e.g. halo could give you a gold item ???

Be truth! He told about oxidized ferrous objects, you're obscured for to discredite him to the eyes of other persons who read this thread! :nono:

But, If you don't know, percentage of copper or brass in gold can creates the necessary halo, maybe not in ancient pure gold. :cool:

[Max]

Max wrote:

Who has a test garden of >100 or >1000years old ? Who can build one with same conditions you say are needed ?

Answer is : NOBODY.


If you read well, justly Esteban as independent experimenter go in inland, old sites, because he or nobody has virgin conditions, no removed soils, etc. This is clear for he and for all.


Max wrote:

But which kind of oxidation has e.g. gold ??? Which kind of e.g. halo could give you a gold item ???

Be truth! He told about oxidized ferrous objects, you're obscured for to discredite him to the eyes of other persons who read this thread! :nono:

But, If you don't know, percentage of copper or brass in gold can creates the necessary halo, maybe not in ancient pure gold. :cool:

Hi,
I've mounted the zahori, tested in a good location and found nothing: no just one beep !

Then switched on my bandidoII-clone and found in same few meters of soil 3 ancient items pieces/scraps that showed halo !

All stuff at few cm depth, and zahori failed miserably respect to a conventional MD.

Which other test I need ? :lol:

About iron...
So LRLs find just iron nails now ? Where is gold ? What we are talking about ?
You go for nails ? :lol:

Ancient gold impurities is another goodnight story... cause yes there are impurities... small maybe 0.1 %, of course: it was not electrolitic that that time...
but I NEVER FOUND ANY GOLD, ANCIENT OR MODERN THAT SHOWED HALO.

PURE BS.

Kind regards,
Max

[Nihil Roma Maius]

Ancient gold impurities is another goodnight story... cause yes there are impurities... small maybe 0.1 %, of course: it was not electrolitic that that time...
but I NEVER FOUND ANY GOLD, ANCIENT OR MODERN THAT SHOWED HALO.

Impurities? Who told about impurities? Gold 12 (50% gold + 50% other metal), 14 (60-40), 16 (67-33), 18 (75-25), 20 (84-16), 22 (92%-8%) has "impurities" introduced by man and his called alloys. These "impurities" can be copper, silver or bronze. So, can creates halo. But isn't necessary the halo, since the conductivity in the soil is very different. Halo is not only regarding alloys or non-alloys, impurities or non-impurities. Also deppend of the mineralization and the pH of the soil.

Best regards, Mr.

Nihil Roma Maius

[Esteban]

Hi,
I've mounted the zahori, tested in a good location and found nothing: no just one beep !

The complicate version with excess of switches? No!!!

Best regards

Esteban

[roberts]

:D
I am back from Lybia!
Long time no see (name calling)!
I see, nothing changed considering LRL subjects? Promoters stayed promoters despite so many proofs proving whole nonsence of this concept.
Sceptics are in majority but still overloudmouthed by minority of beleivers?!
Good!
Give me some time to read all posts and i'll continue where stopped in the past.

BTW; i was told story about crackpot who used (and still using) telephone cord rolled on the top of his head and that's how he lrl'in arround!
So, Hung please tell me are you familliar with this method? What do you think about this? Any chance to work? In case it is workable than we can use it as cheaper method to detect.....let's say coin at 70m distance...Why not?
Please answer me! Many thanks in advance!

See you soon! Regards!
:rolleyes:

[roberts]

The reason i am askin is 5kHz frequency. Crackpot is claiming; he is receiving signals from burried items using that cord on 5kHz frequency, so....must be some connection here?
:cool:

[J_Player]

Who has a test garden of >100 or >1000years old ? Who can build one with same conditions you say are needed ?

Answer is : NOBODY.Maybe wrong... There are hundreds of battlefields in the USA from the Civil War between North and South. These battlefields are full of metal buttons from uniforms, belt buckles, musket balls, cannon balls, gun parts and everything from year 1861 to 1865 that soldiers left behind in their camps and battlefields. Every year there is a major hunting competition with metal detectors to see who finds the most long-time buried metal things left from this war.

Anyone with a working LRL can come to these battlefields and find long time buried metal items same as people find them with metal detectors. If the LRL cannot find the buried metal items, then a person with a metal detector can come after him to find it and prove the LRL did not find it. -- Excellent method to test for finding things with a metal detector or with a LRL.

Click here to see some things found in this North-South hunt: http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=%22north+south+hunt%22+virginia&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi


Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Ancient gold impurities is another goodnight story... cause yes there are impurities... small maybe 0.1 %, of course: it was not electrolitic that that time...
but I NEVER FOUND ANY GOLD, ANCIENT OR MODERN THAT SHOWED HALO.

Impurities? Who told about impurities? Gold 12 (50% gold + 50% other metal), 14 (60-40), 16 (67-33), 18 (75-25), 20 (84-16), 22 (92%-8%) has "impurities" introduced by man and his called alloys. These "impurities" can be copper, silver or bronze. So, can creates halo. But isn't necessary the halo, since the conductivity in the soil is very different. Halo is not only regarding alloys or non-alloys, impurities or non-impurities. Also deppend of the mineralization and the pH of the soil.

Best regards, Mr.

Nihil Roma Maius

Hi,
Now must be modern and in alloy with copper or other metals now ?
Not long time buried gold ? :lol:

What else ? :lol:

What new next time ?

Your LRL need also the receipt for payment ? :razz:

Or maybe the map of treasure !? :lol:

So your LRL cannot find long time buried (ancient) gold ONLY items ? :lol:

What a pile of BS... everyday you write here: few days before must be long time buried gold.... then after I say that gold doesn't show "halo"... it must be an alloy 50/50 !

As I said before... even requirements needed are a full nonsense, like devices are.

Kind regards Mr.,
Max

[Max]

Maybe wrong... There are hundreds of battlefields in the USA from the Civil War between North and South. These battlefields are full of metal buttons from uniforms, belt buckles, musket balls, cannon balls, gun parts and everything from year 1861 to 1865 that soldiers left behind in their camps and battlefields. Every year there is a major hunting competition with metal detectors to see who finds the most long-time buried metal things left from this war.

Anyone with a working LRL can come to these battlefields and find long time buried metal items same as people find them with metal detectors. If the LRL cannot find the buried metal items, then a person with a metal detector can come after him to find it and prove the LRL did not find it. -- Excellent method to test for finding things with a metal detector or with a LRL.

Click here to see some things found in this North-South hunt: http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=%22north+south+hunt%22+virginia&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi


Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
yes , of course I know.... but you have to use a metal detector like I've made to say there are some ancient targets there... after dug them.

You can, of course, like I've done... but you cannot "prepare" a controlled e.g. test grid, like in the challenge, cause you have to rely on unknown (supposed) natural phenomenon that generate a kind of signal LRL detect from long time buried stuff.

I mean... that no one "natural" target is repeatable , any target could be claimed different from another: they'll use that argumentation... e.g. local composition of soil to justify that LRL doesn't work there.

At the end, without a repeatable targets test pattern you cannot made any scientific test on their working.

If you'll say to LRL manifacturers or e.g. write a report on a TH magazine that a specific LRL doesn't work... cause then in same place a MD find objects instead.... the manifacturer could always say that THERE WEREN'T RIGHT CONDITIONS OR THAT YOU HAVEN'T USED THEIR LRL AS REQUIRED, adding nonsense to nonsense.

They don't say e.g. "our LRL-pistol detects ALWAYS a gold coin at 1mm from sensor"... BUT "MUST BE LONG TIME BURIED... MUST BE PRESENT ANOTHER METAL , so ALLOY(read above)..." etc etc etc
If you haven't a predefined and strict set of rules / specs for making a "test garden" any test you'll perform could be contestated by them for indefinite time (forever) and with any nonsense argumentation possible.

They'll always say that you are wrong and that their stuff work, AT THEIR (NONSENSE) CONDITIONS.

Quadro did the same thing with customers for years... untill, endly, sued by FBI and people convicted !

That's the problem. They could say whatever they want... and you could lost in space cause of an infinite number of nonsenses requirements.

You can do test for yourself, like I have done, and take your conclusions, but using by your hands and seeing with your eyes... BUT CANNOT WRITE A REPORT FOR NAIVES ON E.G. A MAGAZINE CAUSE THEY WILL CONTESTATE FOREVER YOUR METHOD, YOUR TESTFIELD, EVEN THE USE YOU MADE OF THEIR LRL... !

You can do with metal detectors... simple ! But their nonsense requirements for LRLs are impossible to be matched cause they continuosly find new... so it's impossible, at the end, follow them all. :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

You can argue all you want. but the fact is there exists a large collection of long time buried metal items at that location. Thus, it is not true " Who has a test garden of >100 or >1000years old ? Who can build one with same conditions you say are needed ?
Answer is : NOBODY.", because this existing collection of buried metal can be used as a test garden, just as I said.

Nest wishes,
J_P

[Max]

You can argue all you want. but the fact is there exists a large collection of long time buried metal items at that location. Thus, it is not true " Who has a test garden of >100 or >1000years old ? Who can build one with same conditions you say are needed ?
Answer is : NOBODY.", because this existing collection of buried metal can be used as a test garden, just as I said.

Nest wishes,
J_P

Hi,
I've tested one ancient location, with method you said.

Zahori doesn't work detecting ancient metals. Then after a conventional VLF MD detected them at few depth.

What I must conclude using that method ?

Zahori doesn't work detecting ancient buried metals !

That's it.

But then I see here other nonsense about filters and mods required! :lol:

As I've said... nonsense + other nonsense to explain why zahori doesn't detect metals, even ancient buried stuff.

BS.

For me is much more simple: doesn't work as claimed by LRL-dreamers.

But they'll never admit that... and will find some other nonsense story. :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

You can argue all you want. but the fact is there exists a large collection of long time buried metal items at that location. Thus, it is not true " Who has a test garden of >100 or >1000years old ? Who can build one with same conditions you say are needed ?
Answer is : NOBODY.", because this existing collection of buried metal can be used as a test garden, just as I said.

Nest wishes,
J_P

Hi,
you misunderstud me...

BTW... have you a test garden of >100 or >1000 years old ? :lol:

Yes use the battlefields... or whatever place with buried ancient metal... OK.

Also I've done that way... but they are not "test gardens" for me.

YOU HAVE TO USE AN MD AND TO RECOVER STUFF (SO DISTURBING SOIL CONDITIONS) TO PROVE THERE IS SOMETHING THAT SOUND ON MD AND NOT WITH LRL. YOU ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS STUFF, OR DEPTH, OR COMPOSITION ETC BEFORE DUG OBJECTS.

And these are test gardens for you ??? :rolleyes:

How can you repeat experiments if your target is different everytime ????
How you could compare results of e.g. different LRLs if your target is different everytime ????

Etc etc... not scientific approach for me.

For me is just a polemic argumentation... a test garden, is something you know where stuff is buried, at which depth and composition of the item too, where you can test detectors in a controlled, reliable, scientific way.

Kind regards,
Max

[Nihil Roma Maius]

Hi Max, or you don't understand or you pretend all here are ignorant for to understand what I said. I speak about different alloys.

As you wrote about pure gold can't creates halo, I wrote that the gold is mixed by man along the history with other metals, and this associated metals with the gold can creates the halo. The rest is a false and malicious interpretation from your part. :nono:

[Max]

Hi Max, or you don't understand or you pretend all here are ignorant for to understand what I said. I speak about different alloys.

As you wrote about pure gold can't creates halo, I wrote that the gold is mixed by man along the history with other metals, and this associated metals with the gold can creates the halo. The rest is a false and malicious interpretation from your part. :nono:

Hi Nihil,
it's very clear to me, you wrote:

"
Impurities? Who told about impurities? Gold 12 (50% gold + 50% other metal), 14 (60-40), 16 (67-33), 18 (75-25), 20 (84-16), 22 (92%-8%) has "impurities" introduced by man and his called alloys. These "impurities" can be copper, silver or bronze. So, can creates halo. But isn't necessary the halo, since the conductivity in the soil is very different. Halo is not only regarding alloys or non-alloys, impurities or non-impurities. Also deppend of the mineralization and the pH of the soil."

I've never seen any gold item, ancient or modern, show any halo.

That's the problem.

If you talk about ancient gold that could have, and actually HAS impurities, we talk about small fraction something like 0.1% of the mass of objects... or the like... cause otherwise you talk about of ancient alloys of gold and other things (e.g. silver) that is a completely different story.

Does ancient gold (with small fraction of impurities) show halo ?

I've never found this... so for me it doesn't.

I'd like to know if anyone here, apart LRL-folks, found this true using just metal detectors... if so, we can talk about this...

otherwise why bugging me with alloys... it's clear that if your object is e.g. 50% gold and 50% silver it actually isn't made of GOLD, you cannot consider it as a gold item !

It's an alloy: electrum ---> an example of what I say is electrum coming from Lydian coinage , that's about 55% gold and 45% silver and traces of copper and other heavy metals.

But it's not gold. Any archeo-student could tell you that... and make big laughs if you call it gold.

Other alloys of ancient gold show greater part of gold even 85%, but the presence of other metals is always 10-15% not 0.1 ! Still not gold.

Gold is gold, impurities are impurities, alloys are alloys.

All the rest are BS.

If you want find gold but your LRL detects alloys of it 50/50... it actually doesn't find GOLD ! You cannot call it GOLD.

It detects the other metal or at least... you wanna us belive that. :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Nihil Roma Maius]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold

Jewellery. Because of the softness of pure (24k) gold, it is usually alloyed with base metals for use in jewellery, altering its hardness and ductility, melting point, color and other properties. Alloys with lower "k", typically 22k, 18k, 14k or 10k, contain higher percentages of copper, silver or other base metals in the alloy. Copper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper) is the most commonly used base metal, yielding a redder metal.


If you want find gold but your LRL detects alloys of it 50/50... it actually doesn't find GOLD ! You cannot call it GOLD.


Max

No, the important is the presence of gold in the alloy since this point of view: When a LRL manufacturer claim that his product is capable to detect only gold, this means a jewell or object 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 karats, because the gold is in the metal.

I think this copper or silver mixed with the gold can creates the famous "halo". Or pure gold in presence of mineralized ferrous soil in combination with wet, pH, etc., maybe make the difference and can produces the "halo".

Regards

Nihil Roma Maius

[roberts]

Ehm...just checking something...
Good, i am back on track again!

Hung you disregarded my question? OK, no hard feeling!
Regards!
:)

[J_Player]

You can argue all you want. All the arguing in the world will not change the fact that we can test a LRL or metal detector near Williamsburg where the N-S hunt is conducted. Arguments of LRL style mean nothing. What means something is we have a very large test garden of long time buried metals more than 140 years old.

Test area will work good to see if LRL can work.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

You can argue all you want. All the arguing in the world will not change the fact that we can test a LRL or metal detector near Williamsburg where the N-S hunt is conducted. Arguments of LRL style mean nothing. What means something is we have a very large test garden of long time buried metals more than 140 years old.

Test area will work good to see if LRL can work.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi,
I still think it's not a test garden...
yes, of course you can use for tests, but everytime your conditions change, your target change etc etc.

Not so reliable as a real "test garden"... anyway...

yes if an LRL works detecting ancient metals there it works also for me.

Questions about method:

But how do you pinpoint target ? Often pinpointing with pistols is not so reliable... so the LRL could sound for other reasons than a target and then you'll use MD and find e.g. a button with a metal detector thinking that the button was the cause of LRL-beeps !

Self-convincements due to bad test procedure. And if there are other targets not revealed by LRL ?... you walk over and away from them cause you don't know they are under your feet if don't use the MD there...

At the end this test couldn't prove anything if you don't scan ALL the area you test the LRL with a conventional MD (like I have done).

I've checked about 20x20meters small area that way, that already I know was good soil, first using the LRL having no sound at all, then using metal detector... finding few targets made of ancient metals, that also showed halo.

I was lucky cause I had no sound at all from zahori there... cause otherwise I've starting thinking there was some connection between ancient targets recovered and sound in zahori. There wasn't so I'm sure it doesn't work for detect metals.

But think at an "erratic untunable beep generator" used on a large battlefield: do you think is reliable testing that way ? Any beep will make you belive it detected a target... then you'll switch on MD and search ... an if you find something you could belive there is a relationship between the two facts.

I think happens very often e.g. when some guy report here that use LRL to find "hot zones", then switch on MD and start find/recover stuff...

that's so not cause LRL detects a "hot zone"... but cause many ancient places on this planet are so full of stuff that you have just to switch on your MD... start sweeping... and sooner or later you'll find something ancient there! :lol:

Best regards,
Max

[alexis]

HOLA, ESTEBAN VI TUS ESQUEMAS ELECTRONICOS DE DETECTOR DE METALES POR IONES TE PREGUNTO SOLO PUEDE CAPTAR ORO, OSEA DISCRIMINA DICHOS METALES , SE PODRIA O TIENES UN ESQUEMA DE UN DETECTOR DE ONDAS RESONANTES DE UN TESORO, SI LO TENES ME LO PASAS MAN GRACIAS ESPERO TUS RESPUESTAS

[batman1972]

maybe this link is good for study:
http://www.njminerals.org/metaldetecting-haloeffect.html

[mehdi]

maybe this link is good for study:
http://www.njminerals.org/metaldetecting-haloeffect.html

thank you batman, of course it is very good for study.;)