View Full Version : Mineoro 2-Box -- 492 feet range?
http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/Circuits/Testgear/ccomd.htm
Could it be related to all those long range stuff with receivers inside?
Fred.
Yes, i think a complete diagram is the next step,because of all the wiring it will look much simpler.But for this an electronic diagram would be much better.
Regards,
Fred.
Hi,
I'm doing by hands (cause have some time to waste ;)) and now I've the problem of "BARS"! :lol:
I think that bars are just soldering pads where the wires are connected togeter (for one reason or another). So it's like in very old AM radio stuff... ... so that "BARS" aren't actually switches I think... the only switch I see is the "3 positions" one (slider version) under ferrite stick.
Terminal-strips, like strip of veroboards and lots of wires on them!
AM I RIGHT ? :rolleyes:
If so... the BARS approach is just to have some "points" where to solder/connects different wires from here and there, thus making possible e.g. changing a circuit/PCB with another of same type just resoldering/connecting its wires only (so without touching other parts of circuit)... kinda of radio-homework ! :lol:
Kind regards,
Max
Yes Max,
Yes i think you are right.Here a picture where i think is that "bar".
That´s why it will look much simpler after all this is removed :).
Qiaozhi
12-23-2007, 06:45 PM
Hi,
I'm doing by hands (cause have some time to waste ;)) and now I've the problem of "BARS"! :lol:
I think that bars are just soldering pads where the wires are connected togeter (for one reason or another). So it's like in very old AM radio stuff... ... so that "BARS" aren't actually switches I think... the only switch I see is the "3 positions" one (slider version) under ferrite stick.
Terminal-strips, like strip of veroboards and lots of wires on them!
AM I RIGHT ? :rolleyes:
If so... the BARS approach is just to have some "points" where to solder/connects different wires from here and there, thus making possible e.g. changing a circuit/PCB with another of same type just resoldering/connecting its wires only (so without touching other parts of circuit)... kinda of radio-homework ! :lol:
Kind regards,
Max
I have been looking at the connections between the six PCBs, but some of them don't make any sense. The power supply is obviously 2F (i.e. barra 2F) and gnd (0V) is 2G. But what is B1 (for instance - see PCB5)? Maybe it should be 1B - but no - there are no connections to barra 1B. And - how about barra N2, barra 2, and barra N4 in PCB3?
Also - I made an incorrect statement in an earlier post, where I said the ferrite coils are orthogonal to the front-mounted coil. They are in fact perpendicular. So this is not a compact 2-box arrangement after all.
Here's a suggestion for you to consider - what if the front-mounted coil assembly does not actually contain any coils? Could it be similar to the Zahori? Morgan- please could you measure the resistance across the various wires that lead to the front-mounted coil? This will at least give us an indication as to whether there is a collection of coils, and (if so) which ones belong together as a pair.
I have been looking at the connections between the six PCBs, but some of them don't make any sense. The power supply is obviously 2F (i.e. barra 2F) and gnd (0V) is 2G. But what is B1 (for instance - see PCB5)? Maybe it should be 1B - but no - there are no connections to barra 1B. And - how about barra N2, barra 2, and barra N4 in PCB3?
Also - I made an incorrect statement in an earlier post, where I said the ferrite coils are orthogonal to the front-mounted coil. They are in fact perpendicular. So this is not a compact 2-box arrangement after all.
Here's a suggestion for you to consider - what if the front-mounted coil assembly does not actually contain any coils? Could it be similar to the Zahori? Morgan- please could you measure the resistance across the various wires that lead to the front-mounted coil? This will at least give us an indication as to whether there is a collection of coils, and (if so) which ones belong together as a pair.
Hi,
you are right, there are some strange things... on bars I've seen them too... next I'll check again on them for further understanding of what's there.
In round "coil" housing could be anything... that's why I'll draw it as a box with 8 wires coming out of it (one is shield and other 7 are for supply and signals I think).
I think that inside the box there is a round coil(s) arrangement and a small PCB with some component on it. I also think that IR emission is not an issue in this kind of thing... that seems much a radio thing.
Personally I think that HV and IR relationship with supposed working LRL principle are just fantasies here, like others about ions etc. :rolleyes:
So, lets go ahead and see what happens next.
Kind regards,
Max
I said the ferrite coils are orthogonal to the front-mounted coil. They are in fact perpendicular.
Hi Qiaozhi,
what do you mean? I always thought those are synonyms :)
Have you seen Esteban´ post here:
http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=63896#post63896
A clue? ;)
Fred.
Hi,
I'm at good point with whole schematic... very ugly thing of course... but simply enough to understand better how things goes... do you think we'll see any detail of inner of round cointainer on top of device ? :rolleyes: I have serious dubts of that ! :lol:
Now I'm doing some check on wires and colors... drinking a good irish liquor... :lol: so maybe tomorrow for complete schematic (but I cannot give any warranty cause of visitors here that make me leave that thing from minute to minute... dang! ).
Kind regards,
Max
Qiaozhi
12-23-2007, 11:07 PM
Hi Qiaozhi,
what do you mean? I always thought those are synonyms :)
Have you seen Esteban´ post here:
http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=63896#post63896
A clue? ;)
Fred.
Hi Fred,
You are, of course, absolutely correct. Unfortunately, today I have no idea what I'm talking about. :redface: I have such a bad cold I just cannot think straight. :drool:
What I was really trying to say was - the coils are not aligned at right-angles.
Qiaozhi
12-23-2007, 11:08 PM
Hi,
I'm at good point with whole schematic... very ugly thing of course... but simply enough to understand better how things goes... do you think we'll see any detail of inner of round cointainer on top of device ? :rolleyes: I have serious dubts of that ! :lol:
Now I'm doing some check on wires and colors... drinking a good irish liquor... :lol: so maybe tomorrow for complete schematic (but I cannot give any warranty cause of visitors here that make me leave that thing from minute to minute... dang! ).
Kind regards,
Max
Good work Max. I'm looking forward to seeing the result. My head hurts too much right now to think about it...
Good work Max. I'm looking forward to seeing the result. My head hurts too much right now to think about it...
Hope you will be fine soon!
Maybe you should try Max method,Irish liquor,seem to work with him :lol:
Understood for the ferrite.may be important...
regards,
Fred.
Morgan
12-23-2007, 11:29 PM
I have been looking at the connections between the six PCBs, but some of them don't make any sense. The power supply is obviously 2F (i.e. barra 2F) and gnd (0V) is 2G. But what is B1 (for instance - see PCB5)? Maybe it should be 1B - but no - there are no connections to barra 1B. And - how about barra N2, barra 2, and barra N4 in PCB3?
Also - I made an incorrect statement in an earlier post, where I said the ferrite coils are orthogonal to the front-mounted coil. They are in fact perpendicular. So this is not a compact 2-box arrangement after all.
Here's a suggestion for you to consider - what if the front-mounted coil assembly does not actually contain any coils? Could it be similar to the Zahori? Morgan- please could you measure the resistance across the various wires that lead to the front-mounted coil? This will at least give us an indication as to whether there is a collection of coils, and (if so) which ones belong together as a pair.
Hey,Qiaozhy
Where you see this BARRA 4 ??? There is only BARRA 1,2,3, to connect wires,who came and goes from PCB´s.
About Antenna wires,i already glued all the PCB´s. Its ok if i start measurments without disconnect the wires?
I think this device its more complicated than we imagine...
Kind regards
Qiaozhi
12-23-2007, 11:42 PM
Hey,Qiaozhy
Where you see this BARRA 4 ??? There is only BARRA 1,2,3, to connect wires,who came and goes from PCB´s.
About Antenna wires,i already glued all the PCB´s. Its ok if i start measurments without disconnect the wires?
I think this device its more complicated than we imagine...
Kind regards
Hi Morgan,
I've no idea, so I probably misread it. This cold is definitely winning. :frown:
Please do the measurements without disconnecting anything. Measure between every combination of wires that go the front-mounted coil. We'll try to figure out what it means after that. Thanks.
Now - must sleep ..... zzzzz
Hi,
was hard work... but I think there's about everything apart some minor mistakes that are:
- there is an ORANGE wire at PCB3 (on supply rail) that must bind to PCB2: problem is that I cannot see any ORANGE wire that goes to PCB3 starting from PCB2; on PCB2 there are other ORANGE wires but not the one I mean:
this require a little check on that wire
- value of Sens-pot is still unknown so I've putted label but not value there: Morgan have to measure it or read value on case of it
- there's a 3 positions switch (I've called it SW2) that we don't know really how it switch wires: I've supposed a kind of connection but will be better checking that by Morgan with a multimeter
- I intentionally leaved out details on coils, cause I haven't suitable data
then can be , of course, other little mistakes...
Anyway, here it is, ugly but about right : as you can see it's much more simple now than with "BARS".
Kind regards,
Max
Thanks Max, nice work!
I can see that the ferrite circuit can be disconnected by the switch,probably for pinpointing.So now i am sure what we have here is a previous version of this:
http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?t=12049&highlight=pistol+detectors
Here the missing parts are explained, again some (intended) misinformation included,but with this diagram and thoses explanations i think we have enought to begin some experiments.
Esteban, if you have something to say say it now :)
Here Max schematic in B/W.Not perfect but may be usefull for printing.
Fred.
Hi,
I'm not sure about things I'm writing cause have no evidence of that... don't know about inner of round container or ferrite stick(s) or coils on them.
Is one ferrite or 2 near and separated by a small gap ? Who knows ?
I don't. We have to see what Morgan will post more...
For now just my speculations:
- the ferrite arrangement with coils on it it's clearly derived from AM radio experiences and hardware: there are no dubts about
- the circuit connected to ferrite coils is clearly also derived from AM-MW-LW radios as well; the presence of two germanium diodes is quite a simptom of what kind of things it can do: amplitude demodulation of generated signal...
- the sorrounding part with transistors after germanium diodes are just amplifiers and signaling system that say "oscillator is up and running" (green led)
So, if we look at front side of circuit 5 (near coils) we discover is an oscillator that probably use the ferrite stick antenna as directive MW-LW range beam that propagates through the wood box to the outside environment.
I think the most interesting part is around the round box on top of device:
- it connects to circuit by also some external caps whose meaning is some kind of tuning of the part inside the box ... it's pretty obvious
Then there are total of 7 wires with supply and signals to it and 1 shield connection all around wires as expected from the critical part of circuit.
I say that inside the round box is probably a small board, maybe filled with epoxy, with some ultra sensitive fet input amplifier like CA3130 or CA3140: I would be not surprised if so. That's my speculation only... ok... but I think that critical aspect is just around that preamplifier there and the round coil I suppose is in the box sorrounding the small preamp PCB.
There circuit where it's connected is kinda of amplifier using transistors, darlington config etc... not difficault stuff... then some feedback and further amplification and filtering... then signal goes directly to VCO based on 555 and output stage transistor with buzzer and "target" led.
Principle of operation ??? BFO-OFF/Resonance, I think using a well higher frequency respect to conventional BFO MDs (but not so far from some of them of the 70s).
The ferrite coil send RF EM waves to target area...(and in the back) and target presence is indicated by an increase of "reflected" signal (like in 2boxes) but with frequency deviations due to target composition and other things like interface between target and soil matrix.
Why round coil is not overloaded by RF field on ferrite stick(s) ? Think about... the about total magnetic field is confined inside the core and its lateral propagation is really a fraction of front and back emission.
For me talking about IR emission or HV peaks is just putting some confusing argumentation more to a complex wiring diagram for what is really not so difficault circuit... just to confuse ideas... and deviate attention from real nature of device: pure RF device like other kind of MDs e.g. 2boxes running at 300KHz.
Just this. But maybe, also cause of this, this circuit could work better than a conventional 2boxes.
I think some people here knows very well this kind of device... but maybe they don't wanna talk about it for one reason or another. :lol:
Maybe there's nothing to patent... or all this stuff was already patented by Fisher in 1930 ! :lol:
But but but , this circuit is interesting as a different approach ! That's what I think. :rolleyes:
Kind regards,
Max
Hi!
Hi,
Is one ferrite or 2 near and separated by a small gap ? Who knows ?
Perhaps 2 i think...
So, if we look at front side of circuit 5 (near coils) we discover is an oscillator that probably use the ferrite stick antenna as directive MW-LW range beam that propagates through the wood box to the outside environment.
Max, i don´t think so:this circuit is probalby just passive receiver,eventually tuned by the gap in the ferrite cores.
I say that inside the round box is probably a small board, maybe filled with epoxy, with some ultra sensitive fet input amplifier like CA3130 or CA3140:
I think so too.An electric field preamplifier, just like those "storm detectors".
For me talking about IR emission or HV peaks is just putting some confusing argumentation more to a complex wiring diagram for what is really not so difficault circuit...
Yes,but i have small doubt about IR.
pure RF device like other kind of MDs e.g. 2boxes running at 300KHz.
no, not only :)
I think some people here knows very well this kind of device... but maybe they don't wanna talk about it for one reason or another. :lol:.
Oh yes! obviously.But it is understandable that someone who has invented those devices, dont want the idea to be stolen by others.And because they do really work, they dont either feel the need to sell them, unlike bogus detectors.And everyone with one would not be such a good idea either.I a way, i respect that idea.
Also, their use is probalby not for everyone, like regular customers, that may complain all the time.But i make a big difference between this pistols and the mineoro´s , that even if they may be based on the same ideas, have been too far away from workable principles.
Regards,
Fred.
J_Player
12-24-2007, 09:19 PM
It looks like Max and Fred did some nice work learning more about the pistol detector. Very nice schematic.
Maybe there's nothing to patent... or all this stuff was already patented by Fisher in 1930 !I think this is correct. Until I see a patent, I will have a hard time believing one exists. There are some novel concepts found in some pistol designs that could be patented. These concepts are centered on the search head and method of sensing the target, as well as the support circuitry and method of extracting the signal. But so far I have seen no evidence of these patents. If patents exist, then we are free to read them and use the designs to experiment with. If they don't exist we are also free to use the designs for experimenting.
The notion of "stealing the idea" is not possible. When someone builds an apparatus and places it in the hands of others to use, test, and experiment with, then what people see and deduce from their experience is not stolen. If a person wanted to protect an idea and keep all others from "stealing it", then he would need to keep the idea concealed within his workshop, not build an apparatus and send it out for people to test and experiment with. Personally I doubt there are any patents on the parts in this pistol detector. But if there are, I would like to know what patent. Perhaps a patent number, and country where it is patented?
Best wishes,
J_P
Qiaozhi
12-24-2007, 09:25 PM
Is one ferrite or 2 near and separated by a small gap ?
Could be either, but Esteban says it's 2. Anyway, this is an easy to experiment to perform.
So, if we look at front side of circuit 5 (near coils) we discover is an oscillator that probably use the ferrite stick antenna as directive MW-LW range beam that propagates through the wood box to the outside environment.
I agree with Fred. This is a passive receiver like the Gold Gun.
I think the most interesting part is around the round box on top of device:
- it connects to circuit by also some external caps whose meaning is some kind of tuning of the part inside the box ... it's pretty obvious
Then there are total of 7 wires with supply and signals to it and 1 shield connection all around wires as expected from the critical part of circuit.
I say that inside the round box is probably a small board, maybe filled with epoxy, with some ultra sensitive fet input amplifier like CA3130 or CA3140: I would be not surprised if so. That's my speculation only... ok... but I think that critical aspect is just around that preamplifier there and the round coil I suppose is in the box sorrounding the small preamp PCB.
Personally I do not think there are any active components in the round box. Have a look at the connections. Apart from the yellow and red wires - which I've already shown to be connected to at least one coil (the PI TX) - all the other wires have a series capacitor. So where is the power supply? We must wait until Morgan has completed the connectivity measurements. This should be very revealing.
Why round coil is not overloaded by RF field on ferrite stick(s) ? Think about... the about total magnetic field is confined inside the core and its lateral propagation is really a fraction of front and back emission.
Actually, I think it's the other way round. Why is the ferrite circuit not overloaded by the 92V pulsed output? Have you considered that there may be some shielding at the rear of the round box to limit the RF field in the direction of the operator. If not, then this device will detect objects behind as well as in front. I remember asking Esteban this question some time ago, and he said that there is some shielding in these devices.
For me talking about IR emission or HV peaks is just putting some confusing argumentation more to a complex wiring diagram for what is really not so difficault circuit... just to confuse ideas... and deviate attention from real nature of device: pure RF device like other kind of MDs e.g. 2boxes running at 300KHz.
Agreed. Although this device is a type of PI running at 400Hz.
I can see that the ferrite circuit can be disconnected by the switch,probably for pinpointing.
Yes - I had already noted this. There are 3 positions:
Connects power supply to ferrite circuit. This is probably the main setting.
Disables ferrite circuit. This implies that there is a another receiver coil in the round box, and the ferrite circuit is secondary passive receiver(aka Gold Gun).
Disables pulsed output as well as ferrite circuit.I hadn't thought about this before. But - is this switch inside the device, or accessible by the operator from the outside. If so, then this may be part of the setup procedure.
Morgan - any comments?
Qiaozhi
12-24-2007, 09:29 PM
It looks like Max and Fred did some nice work learning more about the pistol detector. Very nice schematic.
I think this is correct. Until I see a patent, I will have a hard time believing one exists. There are some novel concepts found in some pistol designs that could be patented. These concepts are centered on the search head and method of sensing the target, as well as the support circuitry and method of extracting the signal. But so far I have seen no evidence of these patents. If patents exist, then we are free to read them and use the designs to experiment with. If they don't exist we are also free to use the designs for experimenting.
The notion of "stealing the idea" is not possible. When someone builds an apparatus and places it in the hands of others to use, test, and experiment with, then what people see and deduce from their experience is not stolen. If a person wanted to protect an idea and keep all others from "stealing it", then he would need to keep the idea concealed within his workshop, not build an apparatus and send it out for people to test and experiment with. Personally I doubt there are any patents on the parts in this pistol detector. But if there are, I would like to know what patent. Perhaps a patent number, and country where it is patented?
Best wishes,
J_P
I would be amazed if a patent exists. :rolleyes:
Esteban
12-24-2007, 09:54 PM
There is not logic. You can't post a bmp more than 19.5 Kb.
The file of the film is near 8 Mb, so is impossible to post here. No want to put in mytemdir.com
Also I'm affraid by the decission of other forums: delete old posts. I assume a forum is like a library...
Merry Christmas!!!
Morgan
12-24-2007, 10:51 PM
Hi,
was hard work... but I think there's about everything apart some minor mistakes that are:
- there is an ORANGE wire at PCB3 (on supply rail) that must bind to PCB2: problem is that I cannot see any ORANGE wire that goes to PCB3 starting from PCB2; on PCB2 there are other ORANGE wires but not the one I mean:
this require a little check on that wire
- value of Sens-pot is still unknown so I've putted label but not value there: Morgan have to measure it or read value on case of it
- there's a 3 positions switch (I've called it SW2) that we don't know really how it switch wires: I've supposed a kind of connection but will be better checking that by Morgan with a multimeter
Hello
this orange wire come from PCB 3 to BARRA 2E.
- I intentionally leaved out details on coils, cause I haven't suitable data
then can be , of course, other little mistakes...
Anyway, here it is, ugly but about right : as you can see it's much more simple now than with "BARS".
Kind regards,
Max
Hello
This orange wire come from PCB 3 to BARRA 2E...
Qiaozhi
12-24-2007, 10:59 PM
Hello
This orange wire come from PCB 3 to BARRA 2E...
Hi Morgan,
How about the 3-position switch? Is this available for the operator to change the switch position, or is it inside the case?
detectoman
12-24-2007, 11:24 PM
hello max
very good work pretty effort, electronic efficient man
my congratulations
detectoman
Morgan
12-24-2007, 11:25 PM
Could be either, but Esteban says it's 2. Anyway, this is an easy to experiment to perform.
I agree with Fred. This is a passive receiver like the Gold Gun.
Personally I do not think there are any active components in the round box. Have a look at the connections. Apart from the yellow and red wires - which I've already shown to be connected to at least one coil (the PI TX) - all the other wires have a series capacitor. So where is the power supply? We must wait until Morgan has completed the connectivity measurements. This should be very revealing.
Actually, I think it's the other way round. Why is the ferrite circuit not overloaded by the 92V pulsed output? Have you considered that there may be some shielding at the rear of the round box to limit the RF field in the direction of the operator. If not, then this device will detect objects behind as well as in front. I remember asking Esteban this question some time ago, and he said that there is some shielding in these devices.
Agreed. Although this device is a type of PI running at 400Hz.
Yes - I had already noted this. There are 3 positions:
Connects power supply to ferrite circuit. This is probably the main setting.
Disables ferrite circuit. This implies that there is a another receiver coil in the round box, and the ferrite circuit is secondary passive receiver(aka Gold Gun).
Disables pulsed output as well as ferrite circuit.I hadn't thought about this before. But - is this switch inside the device, or accessible by the operator from the outside. If so, then this may be part of the setup procedure.
Morgan - any comments?
Hello
About the 3 position switch,the owner dont tel me nothing. He put the device in my hands because he know i like to experimente devices performance,unfortunly i must return it very soon.Anyway i have hope to build a replica for me.
After take measurments of Antenna and ferrite,my job finish with Pistoldetektor,here. The fact that some people acuse me to put B.S. in this Forum makes me very sad,so i´m considering if i put public or not, the next measurments or X-ray of the Antenna.If i decide not put here,dont worry you will receive them by E-mail,and maybe more than you expect,of course Fred and Max also,because we are a team...
Happy Chrystmas
Morgan
12-24-2007, 11:27 PM
Device only detect at long distance in one of the 3 positions.
Qiaozhi
12-24-2007, 11:36 PM
Hello
About the 3 position switch,the owner dont tel me nothing. He put the device in my hands because he know i like to experimente devices performance,unfortunly i must return it very soon.Anyway i have hope to build a replica for me.
After take measurments of Antenna and ferrite,my job finish with Pistoldetektor,here. The fact that some people acuse me to put B.S. in this Forum makes me very sad,so i´m considering if i put public or not, the next measurments or X-ray of the Antenna.If i decide not put here,dont worry you will receive them by E-mail,and maybe more than you expect,of course Fred and Max also,because we are a team...
Happy Chrystmas
Hi Morgan,
Neither myself, Max or Fred think you are posting BS. I believe you are posting honest test results, and I personally thank you for all your hard work.
I'm still no sure about the switch though. When you put the cover back on the detector, is the switch now inside, or can the user still change the switch position from the outside. Or to put it another way - is the switch available to the user, like the sensitivity control?
Have a great Christmas!
Morgan
12-24-2007, 11:49 PM
Hi Morgan,
How about the 3-position switch? Is this available for the operator to change the switch position, or is it inside the case?
Hello
On the top of the box there is the 3 position switch. I only get far away signals in one of this positions,the others i don´t know,i experienced nothing with the other 2 positions.I remember the owner told me about switch in one position this device only find precious metals,the other position most of non ferrous metals...I allways use in non ferrous.
The device also as 3 colour led´s ,the yellow open when device beeps,the red when device switch on or off and maybe inform low battery,and finaly the green must stay open,it means device is extremly sensitive when green led its open.I experienced also,when i put ferrous medium size objet near antenna,this green light disapear...And no beep...
Kind regards
detectoman
12-24-2007, 11:52 PM
hello morgan
congratulations for your big effort
please send me your messures and ray x photo
narm5@hotmail.com
thanks adviced
detectoman mexico
Morgan
12-24-2007, 11:56 PM
The switch its outside,of course.
J_Player
12-24-2007, 11:59 PM
There is not logic. You can't post a bmp more than 19.5 Kb.
The file of the film is near 8 Mb, so is impossible to post here. No want to put in mytemdir.comHi Esteban.
The logic of limiting file size in this forum is to save bandwidth. For this reason we cannot post large mpg files. If you can put your mpg file into a zip folder, then you can email it. I can post this mpg file on a private web server with a link in this forum for people who want to download it and watch it. If you are interested in doing this, then send me a private message, and I will give you an email address to send it.
You also could post the movie on youtube and put the link in your post.
Best wishes, and Merry Christmas,
J_P
Qiaozhi
12-25-2007, 12:31 AM
Hello
On the top of the box there is the 3 position switch. I only get far away signals in one of this positions,the others i don´t know,i experienced nothing with the other 2 positions.I remember the owner told me about switch in one position this device only find precious metals,the other position most of non ferrous metals...I allways use in non ferrous.
The device also as 3 colour led´s ,the yellow open when device beeps,the red when device switch on or off and maybe inform low battery,and finaly the green must stay open,it means device is extremly sensitive when green led its open.I experienced also,when i put ferrous medium size objet near antenna,this green light disapear...And no beep...
Kind regards
Thanks Morgan. This is useful information.
Hi all!
Originally Posted by Fred
Maybe there's nothing to patent... or all this stuff was already patented by Fisher in 1930 !
Actually Max posted this.
Have a look at the connections. Apart from the yellow and red wires - which I've already shown to be connected to at least one coil (the PI TX) -
The red wire is V+,when the switch is on right position.Only then the PCB2 receives supply In any other switch position the coil and PCB2 are not used..This supply could also be used for a preamp,together with the (-) white wire.
But this is really interesting to see that only a part of the detector is used each time, on the left position only PCB5 is used, on the right PCB2.And is pos 3 nothing.(?)
Hello
The device also as 3 colour led´s ,the yellow open when device beeps,the red when device switch on or off and maybe inform low battery,and finaly the green must stay open,it means device is extremly sensitive when green led its open.I experienced also,when i put ferrous medium size objet near antenna,this green light disapear...And no beep...Kind regards
Yes,interesting!
Regards,
Fred.
Hi all,
first of all thanks to Morgan for the useful informations about wire and led functions/purposes: yes I guessed that one is for battery, one for good "tuning" (green) and one for target indication (orange) that light up when buzzer start working ...cause are in parallel.
I've checked the Orange wire and I see now just one Orange wire from PCB3 that goes to BARRA:2 POSITION:E (2E) ; this was a mistake on reverse engineering.
The circuit schematic contains already the orange to 2E connection (that actually drive the green LED by PCB3 circuitry) so there's no need of mod it.
The green led is driven by circuit3 output and circuit5 output when it has supply voltage (just one position of 3 pos switch).
About circuit5 working... yes Fred and Qiaozhi are right on its passive nature (just receiver) ; I made mistake cause was thinking at some oscillator with series LC and other things but I missed that there isn't any feedback from amplifier transistor BC548 ! dang ! :lol:
That could only mean there is just amplification of signal coming from coil(s) on...ferrite sticks. Now we have to guess its meaning in this circuit... and make some theory.
About supply wires for round container they are : RED wire (the one that binds to the 22R resistor) that is positive supply (+9V) and the "wire of shield" (that actually if the shield braid of cable that goes to round container) so GND connection. Other interesting wire is BLUE that is kinda of feedback for stabilizing (I think the whole receiver/amplifier of container and PCB2 in relation to temperature of components at PCB3 by the 3K9 carbon resistor).
The effect of resistance variation could be a cutoff filter frequency variation, with related amplitude rise/fall at sum node near (supposed) premp inside the container; the effect signal is applied to the base of first transistor of circuit 2... and enter by a RC filter for probably similar reasons.
Other wire is WHITE that I think output of round container amplifier.
The YELLOW wire is probably another feedback but for different purposes ???
Anyway...
Then (but its a very wild guess) the two parallel of capacitors (1N//6n8) remember me somehow some Wien bridge configuration: what do you think about... ? :shocked:
Ops... I'm late... see you later ! ;)
Kind regards,
Max
Esteban
12-25-2007, 01:57 PM
This is the pistol in Morgan's hands.
Press free and get with the code:
http://rapidshare.com/files/78960653/Field_test_Esteban_LRL.MPG.html
Merry Christmas
Hi all,
I'm thinking at purpose of passive receiver on device... and got a strange idea. Let me know what do you think about. :rolleyes:
Ok... Let's make some assumptions:
from what we know of these devices (Esteban and others descriptions) we can say that the use of device like this is for expert people cause need special care about e.g. orientation.
- my theory is that device suffer from Earth magnetic field interaction
- so must be a way to know, in open environment like an open flat field with no reference points, if you are using device right... I mean with right orientation
I think purpose of passive RF receiver is just signaling (when supply present) if device is right orientated or not and what's quality of ignoring of e.g. Earth magnetic field.
Now we know Earth magnetic field has North-South component and the normal to surface component as well: for me these 2 must be ignored by device, and that could be done just using device parallel to soil and with East-West or West-East walking of operator: AM I RIGHT ABOUT THIS PROCEDURE ?
Now come back to our problem of passive receiver:
We have a passive probably MW-LW AM receiver that drive a green led, right ?
- How it can be used as I've indicated above to signal minimum influence of Earth magnetic field ???
- Ferrite is directive , so antenna coils of receiver are directive. Box is made of wood so entering signals RF components are not altered by e.g. other magnetic material deviation right ?
Suppose you have now 2 ferrite sticks you can vary the gap between to vary magnetic coupling , so inductance of coil. Didn't you noticed anything ?
If L vary you can actually tune an LC circuit to a particular frequency just varying the gap extension.
Now suppose the device is tuned that way:
- suppose you make ferrites orientation perfectly east-west
- suppose there is a known strong emission, a powerful radio station, on a particular frequency and you know it's located far east or far west from you
- suppose you can tune that particular radio station, cause of device construction, just adjusting the gap between ferrites
- once tuned receiver will pick up AM modulated signal from that far east or west radio station and signal its presence by the green led on
Then now...
- suppose you rotate device e.g. north-south , so ferrites also that are inside, what happens ?
Will the magnetic Earth field component null your tuning ? I think so.
- suppose you rotate device again east-west but tilting it pointing downguard to soil of e.g. 10° . Will that modify, again, your perfect tuning ? Again, I think so...
If my theory is right, the passive receiver act as a compass to signal when device is correctly oriented in the space, thus when Earth magnetic field is ignored (minimized) , so:
- when device is parallel to soil (perpendicular to normal component of Earth mag field)
- and when device is pointed east-west or west-east perfectly
What do you think of that theory?
Kind regards,
Max
Hi,
have found an old commercial example of what I mean:
it's heatkit DF-1 model of transistor radio direction finder , used also for navigation (before GPS age :lol: , so it's grandpa's GSM !).
This model used the commercial AM broadcast band so: 540KHz to 1620KHz.
I think is really similar to what we see there at passive receiver ;)
Look at the enclosed ferrite stick on top... can be rotated by the control knob on front panel to desired angle to find maximum instrument deviation, so maximum signal strenght.
Best regards,
Max
He,he,he. How a reunion of some skeptics EEs here turned the inspection of a LRL circuitry into an analysis of a time machine.
The wild guesses are unique!:lol:
PS. Hey, I just found Carl in one of the physics forum I watch.
It was quite a surprise watch how humble he is in asking questions to the experts there in order to clarify his own doubts.
I wonder why he did not rely on his own forum as a possible first option for this. Maybe not to run the risk of scratching Carl's 'know it all' appearance?:rolleyes:
Merry Xmas everyone.
This is the pistol in Morgan's hands.
Press free and get with the code:
http://rapidshare.com/files/78960653/Field_test_Esteban_LRL.MPG.html
Merry Christmas
Hi Esteban,
Yes. The sonalarme nice beeping sound. Send my best regards to Alonso.
FrancoItaly
12-25-2007, 04:56 PM
Hi Max
I think that this circuits will detect the Earth magnetic field :
http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/lab/5185/electronics.html#GEOMAGNETIC
and
http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/lab/5185/circuit1.html#SENSITIVE
Perhaps it can be useful for to envelope your idea.
Merry Christmas and happy new year
Hi Max
I think that this circuits will detect the Earth magnetic field :
http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/lab/5185/electronics.html#GEOMAGNETIC
and
http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/lab/5185/circuit1.html#SENSITIVE
Perhaps it can be useful for to envelope your idea.
Merry Christmas and happy new year
Hi Franco,
thanks for your links , find them interesting.
First is based on a Clapp oscillator schematic and give beating note at Earth mag field coupling variation at ferrite; second is true BFO based on two simmetric Clapp scheme oscillators with 2 ferrites (kinda of induction balanced BFO).
Both are interesting to see effect of Earth magnetic field on the beating frequency the operator can hear.
But returning to our problem of passive receiver I think it's much more easy thing: there isn't oscillator, so it's just a receiver like old crystal receivers but with transistor amplifiers.
So I think purpose (though there's similar principle of operation) is different and is just giving indication of right positioning of device (parallel to soil and east-west orientated) one can check at any moment, e.g. before start walking, enabling the receiver (using the relative position on the 3-pos. slider switch). And all that just cause of a well known transmitter used as "reference" for east-west orientation.
Maybe I'm wrong on that, but it's an idea that could open new ways to understand presence of receiver there.
Merry Christmas,
Max
Esteban
12-25-2007, 06:34 PM
Hi Esteban,
Yes. The sonalarme nice beeping sound. Send my best regards to Alonso.
Hi Hung. OK.
Hi Esteban,
just my curiosity...about AM stations in South America...
I know there is a strong AM radio station in Sao Paulo, Brazil running on 1100KHz and with 200KW RF power.
It's maybe a "Radio Globo" station ?
Do you receive it from Paraguay ?
I think that with right stuff one can receive it also from the Moon :lol:... but I don't know if you receive it well in central part of continent; I think you can and signal must be strong. Am I right ?
Actually I can receive it strong (but not always)...and I'm really far from it... maybe more than 10000-12000Kms far away (don't know exactly)!
Kind regards,
Max
Esteban
12-25-2007, 07:03 PM
What is the type of detector wich become commercial in few time as a new think, the new toy for the detectorist?
OPEN discussion showing details is not the best. I think the best is discuss this in clossed thread with password between few members:
J_Player, Administrator, Morgan, Max, Qiaozhi, Fred, Hung, Putrechigi, FrancoItaly, Detectoman, Geo, Michael and Esteban.
These name are here regarding participation in this thread.
Think in this possibility: you put all the schematics and details here and other with some modifications launch in market in few time. SURE. Of course, you'll think you are "heros" because solve the enigma. And???? Simple: Nobody will recognize all your job.
Remember: here there are visitors catching opportunities for to build it and convert in simple commerce in few time. The rest, about rights, etc., are theories.
Regards
Esteban
Esteban
12-25-2007, 07:17 PM
Hi Esteban,
just my curiosity...about AM stations in South America...
I know there is a strong AM radio station in Sao Paulo, Brazil running on 1100KHz and with 200KW RF power.
It's maybe a "Radio Globo" station ?
Do you receive it from Paraguay ?
I think that with right stuff one can receive it also from the Moon :lol:... but I don't know if you receive it well in central part of continent; I think you can and signal must be strong. Am I right ?
Actually I can receive it strong (but not always)...and I'm really far from it... maybe more than 10000-12000Kms far away (don't know exactly)!
Kind regards,
Max
Hi Max
At the night you receive very well many stations from Brazil, Argentina, Moscow (in the Cold War era), Egypt, BBC, 1,000!!! In special I hear tons of emissions with my old radio Grundig model Locarno!!! This was great for to hear almost all!!! Maybe from Mars. :rolleyes:
But regarding strong local AM stations, you can hear in the simple voltage regulator!!! :lol:
What is the type of detector wich become commercial in few time as a new think, the new toy for the detectorist?
OPEN discussion showing details is not the best. I think the best is discuss this in clossed thread with password between few members:
J_Player, Administrator, Morgan, Max, Qiaozhi, Fred, Hung, Putrechigi, FrancoItaly, Detectoman, Geo, Michael and Esteban.
These name are here regarding participation in this thread.
Think in this possibility: you put all the schematics and details here and other with some modifications launch in market in few time. SURE. Of course, you'll think you are "heros" because solve the enigma. And???? Simple: Nobody will recognize all your job.
Remember: here there are visitors catching opportunities for to build it and convert in simple commerce in few time. The rest, about rights, etc., are theories.
Regards
Esteban
Hi Esteban,
I haven't solved the enigma...and others same thing: we just gave some more light but there are other and more important details about e.g. coils and round container stuff that we can discuss in private if you want, if there is a good reason of doing so we can do that way.
Let me know.
Kind regards,
Max
I know there is a strong AM radio station in Sao Paulo, Brazil running on 1100KHz and with 200KW RF power.
It's maybe a "Radio Globo" station ?
Hey Max, some corrections:
Radio Globo is from Rio and it runs on 1220 KHz.
What's your point? You wanna listen the narration of Flamengo playing the soccer championship?
Regular RF power is not 'the most important'...
Qiaozhi
12-25-2007, 11:05 PM
He,he,he. How a reunion of some skeptics EEs here turned the inspection of a LRL circuitry into an analysis of a time machine.
The wild guesses are unique!:lol:
PS. Hey, I just found Carl in one of the physics forum I watch.
It was quite a surprise watch how humble he is in asking questions to the experts there in order to clarify his own doubts.
I wonder why he did not rely on his own forum as a possible first option for this. Maybe not to run the risk of scratching Carl's 'know it all' appearance?:rolleyes:
Merry Xmas everyone.
Merry Xmas Hung! :) I was wondering when you would show up.
By the way, there is a difference between speculation and guessing.
I sense you are starting to get nervous. :rolleyes:
Qiaozhi
12-25-2007, 11:55 PM
This is the pistol in Morgan's hands.
Press free and get with the code:
http://rapidshare.com/files/78960653/Field_test_Esteban_LRL.MPG.html
Merry Christmas
Hi Esteban,
In your video you do not show the green LED in operation. This is supposed to be something to do with tuning. Please can you tell us how you set this up?
Regarding a closed forum - we are currently discussing this, but you do not accept private messages.
Morgan
12-26-2007, 12:11 AM
Hi Esteban,
In your video you do not show the green LED in operation. This is supposed to be something to do with tuning. Please can you tell us how you set this up?
Regarding a closed forum - we are currently discussing this, but you do not accept private messages.
Hello
I agree with this "closed group" to work in LRL Pistoldetektor Antenna.
We must respect the inventor of this technology...
Maybe all together,we can discover more things :thumb:
Happy Christmas to all
gold24h
12-26-2007, 12:48 AM
From watching the video it apears that the knob on top is not a three posistion switch,it is a potentiometer with a on off switch,you turn it to the right and it clicks once,this turns it on,from then on the knob works as an ajustable resister to set the threshold of detection.I would like to build one of these but unless we can get the scematics simpler i do not think i can,what would really help is if we knew the operating princable of what it is doing.
Hello guys.
please think twice about closed group proposal as this is one of the best LRL threads so far.. :frown:
Geotech sceptics masterminds working on LRL project. :rolleyes:
Actually besides Zahori this is only thread about true electronics in a bowels of a LRL device ...
I also understand Estebans concern - someone could steal hard work from you guys and I almost feel Whites and Garret engineers waiting for clues from this thread. ;)
1:0 for LRL proponents
thanks for nothing?
But at the end I should say: keep up the good work even if it has to be secret. :|
detectoman
12-26-2007, 01:22 AM
esteban, thanks for remember me in your invitation to closed group, i am, entusiast on long range detectores, yes
detectoman
J_Player
12-26-2007, 01:24 AM
Thank you to Morgan, Esteban, Max, Fred, Qiaozhi and all the others who contributed to this topic.
I also agree with Esteban about his suggestion for a closed group.
Best wishes,
J_P
Qiaozhi
12-26-2007, 01:33 AM
From watching the video it apears that the knob on top is not a three posistion switch,it is a potentiometer with a on off switch,you turn it to the right and it clicks once,this turns it on,from then on the knob works as an ajustable resister to set the threshold of detection.I would like to build one of these but unless we can get the scematics simpler i do not think i can,what would really help is if we knew the operating princable of what it is doing.
The knob you see in the video is exactly as you describe, but (as you can see in the video) it is on the back of the box. The 3-position switch is on the top.
Think in this possibility: you put all the schematics and details here and other with some modifications launch in market in few time. SURE. Of course, you'll think you are "heros" because solve the enigma. And???? Simple: Nobody will recognize all your job.Remember: here there are visitors catching opportunities for to build it and convert in simple commerce in few time. The rest, about rights, etc., are theories.
Regards bEsteban
Hi Esteban,
I completely agree.
I must say however that i am in no way seeking to be a "hero" ,technical knowledge is my primary interest.
Best regards,
Fred.
mosha
12-26-2007, 07:06 AM
Hello guys.
please think twice about closed group proposal as this is one of the best LRL threads so far.. :frown:
Geotech sceptics masterminds working on LRL project. :rolleyes:
Actually besides Zahori this is only thread about true electronics in a bowels of a LRL device ...
I also understand Estebans concern - someone could steal hard work from you guys and I almost feel Whites and Garret engineers waiting for clues from this thread. ;)
1:0 for LRL proponents
thanks for nothing?
But at the end I should say: keep up the good work even if it has to be secret. :|
Hello Leto
I agree with you, for me I am not electrician and know nothing about electronics, but was following this thread to know the working theory cause I think it the same principal of mineoro DC2008 which I pay for it more than 5000$ and have no success yet. I think both mineoro and the pistol type have the same theory but the circuit is deferent,
What to say, Esteban is the boss now.
Regards,
J_Player
12-26-2007, 08:16 AM
I think it the same principal of mineoro DC2008 which I pay for it more than 5000$ and have no success yet. I think both mineoro and the pistol type have the same theory but the circuit is deferent,I think you are mistaken. The principle is not the same. The pistol detector is based on conventional metal detectors, and modified to make use of some properties that have gone un-noticed by the large detector manufacturers. The PDC style locators do not use a conventional coil technology. But this is only my opinion. I cannot prove it at this time.
Best wishes,
J_P
Hey Max, some corrections:
Radio Globo is from Rio and it runs on 1220 KHz.
What's your point? You wanna listen the narration of Flamengo playing the soccer championship?
Regular RF power is not 'the most important'...
Hi Hung,
I like flamengo...and
you are right on the Rio based station... but there's another in Sao Paulo running at 1100KHz (MW) with amplitude modulation and 200KW rf power.
Of course... this have no connection with this thread...;) was just my curiosity... you know...I like old radioworks
so don't worry about my soccer interests... lets focus on hard stuff... like Esteban's proposal...
I think it have sense: I'm sure there are people that visit this forum just to read posts and look at others work... or reverse engineered schematics... and all that without giving any hint , any useful contribute, any information ... just to make money and monkey business.
Though Alonso didn't maybe patented his ideas, I don't care about that : if his ideas conducted to a working LRL principle we cannot spread them here for all vampires I've mentioned above :lol: to make money and laugh os us :rolleyes:
Also other peoples like Esteban have maybe invested so much time in that things that I feel right discussing that things in a closed subforum BUT this time people must really cooperate and provide just good information not disinformation bits like in the past. I think we could have good time that way and without making any wrong to Alonso and others folks.
We are at a point where no real useful information was already given to replicate the device... so we can still do right now.
What do you think ?
Kind regards,
Max
mosha
12-26-2007, 09:20 AM
I think you are mistaken. The principle is not the same. The pistol detector is based on conventional metal detectors, and modified to make use of some properties that have gone un-noticed by the large detector manufacturers. The PDC style locators do not use a conventional coil technology. But this is only my opinion. I cannot prove it at this time.
Best wishes,
J_P
Hi J_P
I am not electronic, but I think they both work with HV, the deference is that in PDC is sparks in ionic champer, with pistol type I think there kind of tesla coil in the front part. just speculation.
best regards,
Alright, although I respect Alonso a lot, the interest on this device grew with some exageration IMHO.
It can be seen in the video for instance, that it will only work for a certain target size from a very close range.
Someting the PDCs, FGs, etc. will easily surpass.
Due to Morgan's own 'propaganda' of the device, a crescent interest on it which initially I think it was natural, grew in a manner that made it to appear that this is in fact, the only 'working LRL' in existence making it look like the other Mineoro's detectors for instance, don't work. This is just plain absurd and false.
Until recently I had the opinion he had not suceeded with his DC due to lack of expertise, bad calibration, or whatever...
Now it's really plausible for me that all this thing could have been a set up for his own interest in replicating this particular device.
All the negative propaganda with the Mineoro making him look like an exacting person and then a situation appears in which only one detector could do it.
In fact, this propaganda was so intense that made the skeptics on this forum abandon right away the 'comercial group forum' created by Carl to develop better regular MDs. Something hillarious as they always stated LRLs are fraud.:lol:
Can you imagine those guys now talking about Morgan's device with a high dose of seriousness and posing as credible researchers?
Ha,ha,ha. Not even in my most unexpected dreams...:razz:
Well, continuening, I know for a fact that it's very unlikely or even virtually impossible that he could not get a detection from all 3 mentioned Mineoro detectors, unless he did not wish it so. With vast experience in the field, specially in a mining area, I can safely say the signal would start at a minimum distance of 90 feet.
He claims there were only sporadic beeps. I don't doubt it, but, besides not knowing all the details involved in his detectin procedure, this is the classic statement from who is not experienced in finding the best way/calibration to go over the target.
The detector shown in the video might have a better pinpointing ability, as a natural evolution in relation to past inventions of Damasio/Alonso, but it clearly lacks the range.
Maybe I'm wrong on all of the above about Morgan not suceeding with the Mineoros, but I have sufficient knowledge of my detector for instance to be absolutely not convinced of what he told.
Naturally, many here are also still not convinced of my claims about PDCs, FGs, etc. It's their privilege too.
Due to that, and in attention to some requests I always got, in the following days, I hope (as my own time and weather conditions allow) to feature a clip with the PDC in action.
On it, I hope to demonstrate the device detecting targets which are far away which I normally use to gauge the ionic field intensity that particular day.
Regards.
J_Player
12-26-2007, 11:09 AM
Interesting opinions. Do you really believe anyone abandoned the commercial group forum?
I hope to demonstrate the device detecting targets which are far away which I normally use to gauge the ionic field intensity that particular day.
We will all be looking forward to your feature clip. Can you include the part where you dig up the target and show us what you detected?
Best wishes,
J_P
Alright, although I respect Alonso a lot, the interest on this device grew with some exageration IMHO.
It can be seen in the video for instance, that it will only work for a certain target size from a very close range.
Someting the PDCs, FGs, etc. will easily surpass.
Due to Morgan's own 'propaganda' of the device, a crescent interest on it which initially I think it was natural, grew in a manner that made it to appear that this is in fact, the only 'working LRL' in existence making it look like the other Mineoro's detectors for instance, don't work. This is just plain absurd and false.
Until recently I had the opinion he had not suceeded with his DC due to lack of expertise, bad calibration, or whatever...
Now it's really plausible for me that all this thing could have been a set up for his own interest in replicating this particular device.
All the negative propaganda with the Mineoro making him look like an exacting person and then a situation appears in which only one detector could do it.
In fact, this propaganda was so intense that made the skeptics on this forum abandon right away the 'comercial group forum' created by Carl to develop better regular MDs. Something hillarious as they always stated LRLs are fraud.:lol:
Can you imagine those guys now talking about Morgan's device with a high dose of seriousness and posing as credible researchers?
Ha,ha,ha. Not even in my most unexpected dreams...:razz:
Well, continuening, I know for a fact that it's very unlikely or even virtually impossible that he could not get a detection from all 3 mentioned Mineoro detectors, unless he did not wish it so. With vast experience in the field, specially in a mining area, I can safely say the signal would start at a minimum distance of 90 feet.
He claims there were only sporadic beeps. I don't doubt it, but, besides not knowing all the details involved in his detectin procedure, this is the classic statement from who is not experienced in finding the best way/calibration to go over the target.
The detector shown in the video might have a better pinpointing ability, as a natural evolution in relation to past inventions of Damasio/Alonso, but it clearly lacks the range.
Maybe I'm wrong on all of the above about Morgan not suceeding with the Mineoros, but I have sufficient knowledge of my detector for instance to be absolutely not convinced of what he told.
Naturally, many here are also still not convinced of my claims about PDCs, FGs, etc. It's their privilege too.
Due to that, and in attention to some requests I always got, in the following days, I hope (as my own time and weather conditions allow) to feature a clip with the PDC in action.
On it, I hope to demonstrate the device detecting targets which are far away which I normally use to gauge the ionic field intensity that particular day.
Regards.
Hi,
your problem is that Mineoro's don't work... and people know that...:lol:
This was already proved by a number of tests and and reverse engineering on mineoro's devices.
Our skeptic nature is a fact... but when me or someone else see a circuit and have time to spend for my hobby why don't investigate what were designer intentions, if there are true ability of detecting metals by it long range and what are real limitations of that approach?
That's my point of view!
I've built zahori... I've tested it...and it doesn't work as claimed... doesn't detect e.g. water flows... so then I know it doesn't work as claimed ! Easy.
I'll belive only facts. So I have no problems at all ! :lol:
Kind regards,
Max
Hi,
your problem is that Mineoro's don't work... and people know that...:lol:
That statement is false.
This was already proved by a number of tests and and reverse engineering on mineoro's devices.
Which tests?
Who to date has reversed engineered it? I am only aware of somebody who dismantled one non comercial model and showed some pics. Do you think this is reverse engineering?
I've built zahori... I've tested it...and it doesn't work as claimed...
That statement is empty and irrelevant. Esteban has built Zahoris which worked. So what?
I'll belive only facts. So I have no problems at all !
What facts do you have about the device in discussion? Morgan's claims?
Your statements are just 'hot air' and mean nothing from an objective perspective. Sorry.
Qiaozhi
12-26-2007, 11:45 AM
Alright, although I respect Alonso a lot, the interest on this device grew with some exageration IMHO.
It can be seen in the video for instance, that it will only work for a certain target size from a very close range.
Someting the PDCs, FGs, etc. will easily surpass.
As usual, you are making a lot of assumptions from a small amount of information. Morgan's pistol detector is claimed to be a medium range locator. From what we can ascertain, at this stage of the investigation, it is based on some modifications to standard metal detector technology. There is none of your fantasy wish-science here. Of course, we have yet to duplicate this device, and either confirm or deny the claims that have been made. This is why we are in the process of conducting a proper scientific investigation into a claimed phenomenon, based on the honest feedback from a respected fellow forum member.
Due to Morgan's own 'propaganda' of the device, a crescent interest on it which initially I think it was natural, grew in a manner that made it to appear that this is in fact, the only 'working LRL' in existence making it look like the other Mineoro's detectors for instance, don't work. This is just plain absurd and false.
Due to the contentious nature of this investigation, we have been forced to move to a closed forum to conduct further research.
Until recently I had the opinion he had not suceeded with his DC due to lack of expertise, bad calibration, or whatever...
Now it's really plausible for me that all this thing could have been a set up for his own interest in replicating this particular device.
All the negative propaganda with the Mineoro making him look like an exacting person and then a situation appears in which only one detector could do it.
Of course Morgan has a vested interest in having this device investigated by "the skeptic team". He wants a copy for himself that will actually work. :D Not a cheap calculator glued to a plastic case on top of a swivel handle. :razz:
In fact, this propaganda was so intense that made the skeptics on this forum abandon right away the 'comercial group forum' created by Carl to develop better regular MDs.
Wrong again. The Commercial Group is still very active. Some of us may have been side-tracked recently, but there could be some indirect benefits by performing this investigation.
Something hillarious as they always stated LRLs are fraud.:lol:
Can you imagine those guys now talking about Morgan's device with a high dose of seriousness and posing as credible researchers?
Ha,ha,ha. Not even in my most unexpected dreams...:razz:
This is the first device we've seen disassembled that shows a possibility of working as claimed. As such, it is worthy of investigation. Clearly you are becoming concerned by our involvement here. I wonder why?
Well, continuening, I know for a fact that it's very unlikely or even virtually impossible that he could not get a detection from all 3 mentioned Mineoro detectors, unless he did not wish it so. With vast experience in the field, specially in a mining area, I can safely say the signal would start at a minimum distance of 90 feet.
He claims there were only sporadic beeps. I don't doubt it, but, besides not knowing all the details involved in his detectin procedure, this is the classic statement from who is not experienced in finding the best way/calibration to go over the target.
I was thinking today about some other nonsense you wrote, where you stated that the signal is stronger the more deeply a target is buried. This is such a nonsensical concept that I wonder you can keep a straight face when you say this. :| I can just think of all the wonderful excuses you could make after digging a huge hole and finding nothing there! :rolleyes:
The detector shown in the video might have a better pinpointing ability, as a natural evolution in relation to past inventions of Damasio/Alonso, but it clearly lacks the range.
Who cares? As long as it can detect treasure at distances beyond current technology. There certainly doesn't seem to be the random beeping that occurred when I tested the Mineoro FG80.
Maybe I'm wrong on all of the above about Morgan not suceeding with the Mineoros, but I have sufficient knowledge of my detector for instance to be absolutely not convinced of what he told.
Naturally, many here are also still not convinced of my claims about PDCs, FGs, etc. It's their privilege too.
And I don't think that situation will ever change. You've shot yourself in the foot too many times.
Due to that, and in attention to some requests I always got, in the following days, I hope (as my own time and weather conditions allow) to feature a clip with the PDC in action.
On it, I hope to demonstrate the device detecting targets which are far away which I normally use to gauge the ionic field intensity that particular day.
Regards.
Targets, no doubt, that have never been recovered, or have been "confirmed" with an RT Examiner! :lol:
The Commercial Group is still very active. Some of us may have been side-tracked recently, but there could be some indirect benefits by performing this investigation.
Oh, sure..:lol:
This is the first device we've seen disassembled that shows a possibility of working as claimed. As such, it is worthy of investigation. Clearly you are becoming concerned by our involvement here. I wonder why?
Because I think you will end up finding about the Roswell Crash too and this 'we' won't allow..:lol:
I was thinking today about some other nonsense you wrote, where you stated that the signal is stronger the more deeply a target is buried.
This FACT is divulged by Alonso and Damasio themselves.
Of course this only adds more weight to your total ignorance about the concept or the detector itself.
Well, this has been always expectable after all.
There certainly doesn't seem to be the random beeping that occurred when I tested the Mineoro FG80.
You...?
Where... in you private gold mine?:lol:
And I don't think that situation will ever change. You've shot yourself in the foot too many times.
Well, I don't have a gun... So I assume you mean I released some false information. Tell me what those are please.
Ozzy whatever your intentions might be, you have to be certain that you will not be getting 'lunch for free'.
And maybe not even a paid lunch.
PS. Don't abuse alcohol or food these hollidays.;)
That statement is false.
Which tests?
Who to date has reversed engineered it? I am only aware of somebody who dismantled one non comercial model and showed some pics. Do you think this is reverse engineering?
That statement is empty and irrelevant. Esteban has built Zahoris which worked. So what?
What facts do you have about the device in discussion? Morgan's claims?
Your statements are just 'hot air' and mean nothing from an objective perspective. Sorry.
Hi,
Nervous !? :lol:
Take it easy... if we'll discover that pistol doesn't work ...ok... we'll make us a reason of that ! :rolleyes:
Not me only built the zahori... I remember you our great member Ivconic and also Michael built one. Unfortunately we cannot find anything with it... and it doesn't work as claimed with water flows. This is a fact.
Anyone could build one and test, and see with his eyes and hear the random beeps you are so addicted! :lol:
Tests on Mineoro's were performed all over the world... I personally belive to my friends and other people that say they don't work. Also other brand stuff , but similar, resulted completely wallet-mining operations with no one single documented found.
About reverse engineering... do you mean the "ion chamber" made with PVC water pipe ? :lol:
You say they work ! So what ???
Facts = 0.
Kind regards,
Max
Qiaozhi
12-26-2007, 01:05 PM
Oh, sure..:lol:
Because I think you will end up finding about the Roswell Crash too and this 'we' won't allow..:lol:
This FACT is divulged by Alonso and Damasio themselves.
Of course this only adds more weight to your total ignorance about the concept or the detector itself.
Well, this has been always expectable after all.
You...?
Where... in you private gold mine?:lol:
Well, I don't have a gun... So I assume you mean I released some false information. Tell me what those are please.
Ozzy whatever your intentions might be, you have to be certain that you will not be getting 'lunch for free'.
And maybe not even a paid lunch.
PS. Don't abuse alcohol or food these hollidays.;)
Nothing useful to say? Oh well - no change there then?
Facts = 0
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
That's the reality!
It can be seen in the video for instance, that it will only work for a certain target size from a very close range.
Someting the PDCs, FGs, etc. will easily surpass..
Well for the first time we have seen some evidence that a new kind of detector actually works.
On the other hand, you have send an enormous amount of misinformation, technical nonsese and absurd claims, with absolutely no proof.
Althought you seems to think we are all idiots here, we do have open minds, and when we see someone claiming interesting results and giving evidences of that, we investigate and discuss the subject.
Not more complicated thant that.
Fred.
J_Player
12-26-2007, 01:40 PM
So I assume you mean I released some false information. Tell me what those are please.
Some recent false information from hung:
The way I was measuring the variances, was opening the examiner box and placing the positive probe in the lead of the diode which is connected to the pot.We all know there is no pot connected to the diode inside the Ranger Tell. You obviously did not see the inside of the Ranger Tell box. You substituted a test outside the box to try to conceal this and the fact that you never connected a meter inside the box.
...ALL scientific comunity in the world utilizes AIAS as basis for their research.
This is a lie you told to make it look like AIAS is a respectable group known by all scientists. It is easy to prove that all the scientific community does not utilize AIAS. Simply ask anyone in the scientific community what AIAS is and see for yourself.
This is the principle in which the Rangertell Examiner works. Resonance to the elements subatomic levels when a carrier signal line is shot and returned.
There is no circuit inside the Ranger tell that shoots a carrier signal line that resonates to subatomic levels.
Best wishes,
J_P
[quote]We all know there is no pot connected to the diode inside the Ranger Tell. You obviously did not see the inside of the Ranger Tell box. You substituted a test outside the box to try to conceal this and the fact that you never connected a meter inside the box.
Man, you're insane. Whatever you are smoking you should quit imediately.
I own the diodes model. There's a diode direct soldered to the pot.
Any insinuations like that with sick attacks to a person's honesty just shows the rotten character that you own.
This BS from people like you has gone too far already.
Esteban
12-26-2007, 08:55 PM
Hi all!!!
Calm!!! No more attacks!!!
I remember I post when Alonso, others and me found a gold watch at few meters of train rail. This was with the 2006 model and confirmed by the 2007.
Distance was superior than this Morgan's device. In this scenario was Alonso, the landlord (an aviator), Hassan and me.
The first detection was at night. The detection no was very precisse at the night because the air and the grass was very humid. Wait at the next day with good weather and we can centrate easily the watch.
Hi all!!!
Calm!!! No more attacks!!!
I remember I post when Alonso, others and me found a gold watch at few meters of train rail. This was with the 2006 model and confirmed by the 2007.
Distance was superior than this Morgan's device. In this scenario was Alonso, the landlord (an aviator), Hassan and me.
The first detection was at night. The detection no was very precisse at the night because the air and the grass was very humid. Wait at the next day with good weather and we can centrate easily the watch.
Hey Esteban,
Thanks for confirming what all sucessful Mineoro owners have always known.
As I said, they don't need to come here to tell this. They are busy in the field.
I'm also a sucessful user, but who is unfortunate enough to deal with some people like the ones you know here. Well... I guess all forums are like that..
For those who still did not suceed for whatever reason this might be, I know this is just a matter of time (and hard research!) .:thumb:
Qiaozhi
12-26-2007, 11:44 PM
As I said, they don't need to come here to tell this. They are busy in the field.
So, the fact that you are here, implies that you are not busy in the field. :shrug:
So, the fact that you are here, implies that you are not busy in the field. :shrug:
:lol::lol::lol: :cool:
J_Player
12-27-2007, 12:28 AM
So I assume you mean I released some false information. Tell me what those are please. ...
Man, you're insane. Whatever you are smoking you should quit imediately.
I own the diodes model. There's a diode direct soldered to the pot.
Any insinuations like that with sick attacks to a person's honesty just shows the rotten character that you own.Actually I was answering your request to tell you what false information you released. If you would like me to tell you what false information you released that includes only the facts without commentary about your motives, then here it is again:
Some recent false information from hung:
The way I was measuring the variances, was opening the examiner box and placing the positive probe in the lead of the diode which is connected to the pot.We all know there is no pot connected to the diode inside the Ranger Tell. We learned about this when we looked at the photos and circuit diagram showing the diode connection that Carl posted after opening the Ranger Tell. Because Carl's photos and circuit diagram confirm the diode is not connected to a pot at either end, I would answer that your claim of "placing the positive probe in the lead of the diode which is connected to the pot" is false.
...ALL scientific comunity in the world utilizes AIAS as basis for their research.
Most of the scientific community is not familiar with AIAS, and do not have any idea how to utilize AIAS. It is easy to prove that all the scientific community does not utilize AIAS. Simply ask anyone in the scientific community what AIAS is and see for yourself. Thus I would answer that your claim that "ALL scientific comunity in the world utilizes AIAS as basis for their research" is false.
This is the principle in which the Rangertell Examiner works. Resonance to the elements subatomic levels when a carrier signal line is shot and returned.
There is no circuit inside the Ranger tell that shoots a carrier signal line that resonates to subatomic levels. There is no working circuit inside the Ranger Tell. Therefore, there is no possibility of "shooting a carrier signal line", and I would answer that this claim is also false.
Perhaps I can only speculate on your motives, but the methods of determining the recent false information you released can be checked by anyone who wants to find out if it is false or not. Please don't take these answers to your request as an attack. They are simply answers to help you identify what false information you have recently released.
Best wishes,
J_P
ANDREAS
12-27-2007, 04:22 AM
Hi all.
Many-many frieds in forum, you know sums years study this LRL technology. I decided to stop, afterwards attack Roberts to me (you remember my RF pistol), other now I see, exists new interest for study of this of appliance. I believe, I know enough. If you want I can help you ONLY in private forum.
regards
Actually I was answering your request to tell you what false information you released. If you would like me to tell you what false information you released that includes only the facts without commentary about your motives, then here it is again:
Some recent false information from hung:
We all know there is no pot connected to the diode inside the Ranger Tell. We learned about this when we looked at the photos and circuit diagram showing the diode connection that Carl posted after opening the Ranger Tell. Because Carl's photos and circuit diagram confirm the diode is not connected to a pot at either end, I would answer that your claim of "placing the positive probe in the lead of the diode which is connected to the pot" is false.
Most of the scientific community is not familiar with AIAS, and do not have any idea how to utilize AIAS. It is easy to prove that all the scientific community does not utilize AIAS. Simply ask anyone in the scientific community what AIAS is and see for yourself. Thus I would answer that your claim that "ALL scientific comunity in the world utilizes AIAS as basis for their research" is false.
There is no circuit inside the Ranger tell that shoots a carrier signal line that resonates to subatomic levels. There is no working circuit inside the Ranger Tell. Therefore, there is no possibility of "shooting a carrier signal line", and I would answer that this claim is also false.
Perhaps I can only speculate on your motives, but the methods of determining the recent false information you released can be checked by anyone who wants to find out if it is false or not. Please don't take these answers to your request as an attack. They are simply answers to help you identify what false information you have recently released.
Best wishes,
J_P
Your pathetic temptative of fixing your previous pathehtic post only made it even worse.
Hi all.
Many-many frieds in forum, you know sums years study this LRL technology. I decided to stop, afterwards attack Roberts to me
Hi Andreas,
Yeah, I know what you mean. Nice to see you back even if it's only for a while.
Regards.
J_Player
12-27-2007, 10:12 AM
Your pathetic temptative of fixing your previous pathehtic post only made it even worse.Fixing my previous post? I only removed the parts you objected to and provided facts to answer your request. Can you show how the three items of false information you released are not false? ie:
Can you show us where the diode is connected to a pot inside a Ranger Tell?
Can you show us how "All scientific community in the world utilizes AIAS as the basis for their research"?
Can you show us how to observe a Ranger Tell "shooting a signal line"?
I really believe these are false information. Am I wrong?
Best wishes,
J_P
Fixing my previous post? I only removed the parts you objected to and provided facts to answer your request. Can you show how the three items of false information you released are not false? ie:
Can you show us where the diode is connected to a pot inside a Ranger Tell?
Can you show us how "All scientific community in the world utilizes AIAS as the basis for their research"?
Can you show us how to observe a Ranger Tell "shooting a signal line"?
I really believe these are false information. Am I wrong?
Best wishes,
J_P
J_P,
You should not ask that.When Hung will be back from the field,he will ask his engineers to do those tests, to resolder a diode on the right position, to take pictures, then he will answer with a long boring post that will need even more answers.:razz:
Fred.
Tim Williams
12-27-2007, 02:30 PM
I offered a private forum to Morgan and Hung if they want it. As a user of this type of equipment I would like to learn more about what Morgan and others are doing. This thread is less talk about the unit and more fussing. For those that really want to build and test this unit are the ones I am talking too. It will be a private forum by invitation only. Carl can offer the same here if he wants. There is no doubt that the unit can be improved by those that have input here. I would be willing to add also in board layout and CPU control.
Tim
Tim Williams
12-27-2007, 02:33 PM
Andreas, welcome back. Hope to see more from you and your work.
Tim
Fixing my previous post? I only removed the parts you objected to and provided facts to answer your request. Can you show how the three items of false information you released are not false? ie:
Can you show us where the diode is connected to a pot inside a Ranger Tell?
Can you show us how "All scientific community in the world utilizes AIAS as the basis for their research"?
Can you show us how to observe a Ranger Tell "shooting a signal line"?
I really believe these are false information. Am I wrong?
Best wishes,
J_P
At first, I was not going to answer your sick nonsenses as you clearly have some kind of psychiatric problem which makes you and your 'friends' always try to discredit my posts. Being this for envy, obsession or whatever. I think there's also some masochism in it. All the spanking on my examiner evidences were not enough?
Then, I reconsidered that in attention of the other general readers who are normal and don't deserve your misinformatios and deviations.
So, take note: The answers are directed towards those readers and not to you.
So whatever your reply might be as you seem to not bother being completely exposed to ridicule in some of your 'assumptions', I will not answer those anymore. I will not waste my time with typos like yourself in endless BS posts.
Am I clear on that?
So it's up to you waste your time replying, expecting any answer. Well, I guess you have plenty of time to waste anyway...
TO THE GENERAL READER:
1- The question, which tries to discredit my claim about the diode being directly soldered to the Examiner is so obnoxious that I don't know if it's dign of laugh or sorrow. This individual not owning an Examiner clearly (and insanely) tries to 'insinuate' there's no diode soldered to the pot when he doeosn't know anything and every owner of the all-diodes model knows this, provided he has opened the circuit box.
I was challenged to post a picture. I won't do this of course. I respect the proprietary circuit secret of the manufacturer, unlike this individual who enjoys hacking detectors in desperation of his own incompetence.
2 - I said the scientific comunity uses AIAS as basis for their research.
This is asolutely true, although I misexpressed myself a little. I wanted to state the scientific comunity watches regularly the developments in AIAS and matches its own.
For those who are not familiar with AIAS (Alpha Institute for Advanced Study), this is an independent organization run by Prof. Myron Evans with help of notable scientists all over the world which covers among other things the ECE theory, which is an astounding follow up of Einstein's Unified Field Theory, explaining almost everything which the orthodox physics model can't.
Everybody in AIAS knows very well how much the scientific comunity ARE ALWAYS WATCHING their developments.
Here's an internal Memo sent by Myron Evans at my querie, on this situation update:
GROWING INTEREST IN AIAS
This interest amounts to over five million hits in three years or so, and in the newly formed Santilli-Galilei Association. Our main websites are now www.aias.us (http://www.aias.us/), www.atomicprecision.com (http://www.atomicprecision.com/) and www.santilli-galilei.com (http://www.santilli-galilei.com/) . We now have funding from the private sector and were awarded four gold medals. These will be given out in a ceremony at Imperial College London in July 2008. Summaries of feedback data are given regularly (every two weeks) and are recorded on www.aias.us (http://www.aias.us/), so there is no doubt that a new school of thought has emerged in natural philosophy, akin to quantum mechanics for example, or relativity.
Season's Greetings!
Civil List Scientist
cc Prime Minister's Office and Welsh Assembly.
***************************
Enough said.
3 - The third question relates to his total ignorance in RF fundamentals. It was all twisted as a clear ignorance of what transmission lines is. 'Shoot' a siginal line? Oh my God.. May I recomend to this individual chapter 1 of the ARRL book for a basic understanding of RF transmission process?
What I said is that the Examiner sends out a signal and aligns with the responsive one. This creates a signal line, in the same manner a frequency broadcast is received by any ordinary receiver tuned to that frequency.
There are even pictures RT made of these signal lines which can be seen in their site.
Upon projecting our LRL we could corroborate all of this, so naturally.
If the skeptics here don't believe this, it's their problem. Just do their research and see for themselves. I'm not the one who will give 'lunch for free' for those people here.
*****************
One more reminding:
I will not waste my time with this subject. So reply whatever you wish as your pathological behaviour calls for that, as you will once again try to discredit what I said.
These answers were directed to general forum reader.
I leave a sincere suggestion to you. Go see a psychiatrist. Treat yourself and do some good to yourself.
Regards.
ANDREAS
12-27-2007, 02:50 PM
Thank you Tim
I believe has enough work, to we can occupy (if we can) certain theories
regards
I offered a private forum to Morgan and Hung if they want it. As a user of this type of equipment I would like to learn more about what Morgan and others are doing. This thread is less talk about the unit and more fussing. For those that really want to build and test this unit are the ones I am talking too. It will be a private forum by invitation only. Carl can offer the same here if he wants. There is no doubt that the unit can be improved by those that have input here. I would be willing to add also in board layout and CPU control.
Tim
Hi Tim, thanks for your kind invitation. Sure I'm interested in discussing an improvement, as I stated earlier in this thread. Problem is my lack of time, specially now in the final stages of ny own LRL system.
But I'll do everything I can to participate.
Thanks again.
Best to you.
J_Player
12-27-2007, 08:08 PM
Am I clear on that?No you are not. I recall many times you said you would ignore people or leave the forum, then return shortly after to make a responses to things people post.
But from what I can gather from your answers, you are saying these three statements are true:
There is a pot connected to one end of the diode inside the Ranger Tell.
All the scientific community in the world utilizes AIAS as the basis for their research.
The ranger tell "shoots a signal line".
Ok, it looks like we have a disagreement about whether these are true statements. I don't see a problem with disagreeing. But it is not nice to call people sick when they go to the trouble to answer the questions you ask: So I assume you mean I released some false information. Tell me what those are please.
Best wishes,
J_P
gold24h
12-28-2007, 12:22 AM
Hello Tim,i would like to be involved in the private forum,if that is possible let me know how.
Tim Williams
12-28-2007, 12:59 AM
It's not up to me, but Morgan. I'm just offering a place for a group to discuss and develop the unit.
Tim
Morgan
12-28-2007, 10:53 PM
Hello Leto
I agree with you, for me I am not electrician and know nothing about electronics, but was following this thread to know the working theory cause I think it the same principal of mineoro DC2008 which I pay for it more than 5000$ and have no success yet. I think both mineoro and the pistol type have the same theory but the circuit is deferent,
What to say, Esteban is the boss now.
Regards,
Hello
Until now my DC2008 works as a weak metal detector. Most of the targets i found with Esteban/Alonso Pistoldetektor i chek with my DC2008 and find notting unless when items are large and near the surface,so this Mineoro its useless device,and with other Mineoro DC2006 model ionic/eletrostatic tipe i never find METAL,only beeps from electric power lines!!! So Mineoro sell this FRAUD and extrmly expensive devices.
If its Alonso the designer of this working Pistoldetektor,why Mineoros LRL made by Alonso/Damasio not work?...Why they dont sell only the Pistoldetektor?
roberts
12-28-2007, 11:30 PM
Hi all.
Many-many frieds in forum, you know sums years study this LRL technology. I decided to stop, afterwards attack Roberts to me (you remember my RF pistol), other now I see, exists new interest for study of this of appliance. I believe, I know enough. If you want I can help you ONLY in private forum.
regards
Say What? I never attacked you!? I asked (provoked) you to offer some proofs here,due your lunatic claims!
So, you couldn't offer any proof,you couldn't STAND IN FRONT OF YOUR CLAIMS and than ran like a rabbit from here..? Why?
Now, it is nice to see "brothers" are gathering here; you,hung and few others.
C'mon! Join your forces and try to "push" your funny,bogus ideas once more here!
I am still here. I will ask for proofs and backups AGAIN here. From you especially!
But look, i am not alone any more here! More and more smart people joined here to unmask lies,falses,pseudo blah,blah...
It is time to end with pseudo science and BOGUS devices!
If not me, somebody else will continue my way!:D
roberts
12-28-2007, 11:33 PM
Hi Andreas,
Yeah, I know what you mean. Nice to see you back even if it's only for a while.
Regards.
"For a while..." Damn! I would like to see your kind here for a longer period.It would be much more fun!
Unlike hei, you Hung are not here "for a while..."!? Pitty!
roberts
12-29-2007, 10:40 AM
"...I was not going to answer your sick nonsenses as you clearly have some kind of psychiatric problem which makes you and your 'friends' always try to discredit my posts. Being this for envy, obsession or whatever. I think there's also some masochism in it. All the spanking on my examiner evidences were not enough?...."
Where is Administrator now?! So Carl, this is how it is usually begin! You do not pay attention on offends like this one, but you do pay attention on my answers!? How come?
I DEMAND, YOU TO DELETE THIS OFFENDS AND HUNG TO BE BANNED! TO BE PUSHED TO REGISTER HERE UNDER OTHER NICK!
If you do not suit my demand than it will be so obvious that some people here do have privileges.
roberts
12-29-2007, 10:47 AM
"...I offered a private forum ..."
Now, this is good idea Tim. I agree with it. Good cose the rest of us members will not be pushed to see,read and suffer from much of nonsences.
If you want to explore this pseudo blah,blah subject , than it is very good to keep it private. I am not against your work and interests, i am only against posting those in public, especially here, most visited place on the .net. Especially when knowing that every day more newbies are coming here asking for real stuff. It is great danger those people to be missleaded with false informations. I am "fighting" against that, here. Not against some members.
So, again, it is good idea. Keep your opinions closed for public and work. If you are satisfied - i am even more!
Regards!
roberts
12-29-2007, 10:58 AM
People...? How come that you do not understand my attitude? I will give you here same analogy. For example let's imagine that this is phylosophic oriented forum. People would come here and discuss about life,meaning of life and simillar...
Let's imagine that some members are national-socialists and do come here to post their opinions and theories. Further they would start to post nazi phylosophy, a.hitler's attitude,rethorics and simillar crap&trash.
Now, the very imoprtant question is:
Should the rest of members (we) allow they to continue with those sick posts or not? Of course not! Thes should be banned and forget for good.
So..!?
The same thing is with this kind of behavior here.
Normal,sane,straight man must stand and resist to ubnormal ideas, must fight with all "weaponary" available. Otherwise we will be busted!
That is my phylosophy. I will die unchanged.
For me, lrl ideology is absolute same as nazi ideology. Must be destroyed in roots! Must vanish from this world! No matter the aftermaths!
Dell Winders
12-29-2007, 02:12 PM
Normal,sane,straight man must stand and resist to ubnormal ideas, must fight with all "weaponary" available. Otherwise we will be busted!
That is my phylosophy. I will die unchanged.
For me, lrl ideology is absolute same as nazi ideology. Must be destroyed in roots! Must vanish from this world! No matter the aftermaths!
Silence is wisdom... ??
Irrational logic based on personal Bias, Hatred, or Prejudice does not indicate wisdom.
Supposedly, this forum is about "REMOTE SENSING" what ever the method??
I get the impression that Carl, added this forum intentionally to attract LRL users. Voice your complaint to Carl, for creating a forum for LRL users to participate, and ask him to remove it if it offends you.
Robert, the question is, do you have anything constructive to contribute to a "Remote Sensing" Treasure Hunting forum?? If not, why are you here??
PEACE be with you my friend and enjoy the New Year!
Dell
Hello
Until now my DC2008 works as a weak metal detector. Most of the targets i found with Esteban/Alonso Pistoldetektor i chek with my DC2008 and find notting unless when items are large and near the surface,so this Mineoro its useless device,and with other Mineoro DC2006 model ionic/eletrostatic tipe i never find METAL,only beeps from electric power lines!!! So Mineoro sell this FRAUD and extrmly expensive devices.
If its Alonso the designer of this working Pistoldetektor,why Mineoros LRL made by Alonso/Damasio not work?...Why they dont sell only the Pistoldetektor?
:lol::lol:
Good Golly, holly incompetence!
You really were born to find bottle tops in the beach...
Irrational logic based on personal Bias, Hatred, or Prejudice does not indicate wisdom.
Supposedly, this forum is about "REMOTE SENSING" what ever the method??
I get the impression that Carl, added this forum intentionally to attract LRL users. Voice your complaint to Carl, for creating a forum for LRL users to participate, and ask him to remove it if it offends you.
Robert, the question is, do you have anything constructive to contribute to a "Remote Sensing" Treasure Hunting forum?? If not, why are you here??
PEACE be with you my friend and enjoy the New Year!
Dell
Hi Dell!
It's a pleasure to see you here.
I might be sending you good news in a short time.
Happy new year, my friend.:cheers:
roberts
12-29-2007, 05:56 PM
[quote=Dell Winders;64524]Irrational logic based on personal Bias, Hatred, or Prejudice does not indicate wisdom.
Supposedly, this forum is about "REMOTE SENSING" what ever the method??
INDEED DELL.I AGREE. SUPPOSEDLY MAN SHOULD MEET SOME PROVABLE FACTS HERE.DOUBLEBLIND TESTABLE CLAIMS.CLAIMS BACKUPED WITH COMMON SENCE AND SCIENCE.
I get the impression that Carl, added this forum intentionally to attract LRL users. Voice your complaint to Carl, for creating a forum for LRL users to participate, and ask him to remove it if it offends you.
AGAIN TRUE. I AGREE.THIS FORUM SHOULD LOOK LIKE ANY OTHER HERE.SCHEMATICS,PROJECTS,SHARE,CORRESPONDENCE.JUST LOOK IN TECH FORUM AND OTHERS.
Robert, the question is, do you have anything constructive to contribute to a "Remote Sensing" Treasure Hunting forum?? If not, why are you here??
I THINK I DO. SUSPICIONS,DOUBTS,POSITIVE PROVOCATIONS,APPEALS...MORE THAN ENOUGH CONTRIBUTION.SOME QUESTIONS ARE HARD TO BE ASKED.I ALREADY ASKED ALL THOSE QUESTIONS,SINCE NOBODY ELSE DARED TO ASK.
PEACE be with you my friend and enjoy the New Year!
THANK'S DELL. I WISH YOU THE SAME.HEALTH ON THE FIRST PLACE! SAME TO OTHER MEMBERS HERE.
Hi all,
there could be some truth about "short-range-locators" (few meters)...talk of that but just stay calm and don't start talking about ions... and zahoris again! :lol:
The truth I mean could be related to well known physics and conventional MDs principle of operation... so nothing trendy as a ion cloud or a tesla bla bla... but maybe functional somehow to detect a coke can outside the range we normally refer as limit for common MDs.
Of course, is just a foggy thing for now... lot of things need to be carefully verified...and by many people... and I have lot of dubts on real implementation , procedures etc etc
But at least seems there is some REAL physics and well understud and known principle involved and claimed range is not of miles or lightyears but just a few over conventional stuff... (if you can detect a coke can at 1meter with a PI detector can you do the same at e.g. 2 meters using similar principle but different implementation ??? I think could be possible)
Still you think there's some zahori that detect water flows !? :lol: No, no... sorry but there isn't anything similar... or dowsing stuff...pendulum??? all BS for me as always... but if you belive that ... OK do so. I'm happy too. :rolleyes:
So...be quite... don't start another ions-war here... silence is wisdom... one way or another.
Happy new year to all of you (and lot of good health of course),
Max
mosha
12-29-2007, 07:30 PM
Hi all,
there could be some truth about "short-range-locators" (few meters)...talk of that but just stay calm and don't start talking about ions... and zahoris again! :lol:
The truth I mean could be related to well known physics and conventional MDs principle of operation... so nothing trendy as a ion cloud or a tesla bla bla... but maybe functional somehow to detect a coke can outside the range we normally refer as limit for common MDs.
Of course, is just a foggy thing for now... lot of things need to be carefully verified...and by many people... and I have lot of dubts on real implementation , procedures etc etc
But at least seems there is some REAL physics and well understud and known principle involved and claimed range is not of miles or lightyears but just a few over conventional stuff... (if you can detect a coke can at 1meter with a PI detector can you do the same at e.g. 2 meters using similar principle but different implementation ??? I think could be possible)
Still you think there's some zahori that detect water flows !? :lol: No, no... sorry but there isn't anything similar... or dowsing stuff...pendulum??? all BS for me as always... but if you belive that ... OK do so. I'm happy too. :rolleyes:
So...be quite... don't start another ions-war here... silence is wisdom... one way or another.
Happy new year to all of you (and lot of good health of course),
Max
Hi Max,
did you start your closed forum,
best regards.
J_Player
12-30-2007, 01:11 AM
Here is what hung posted, directed to all the readers of the remote sensing forum, except not me. What I am posting below is directed to the same readers. hung can ignore it if he wishes, or can answer if he wishes.
All the spanking on my examiner evidences were not enough?
...Then, I reconsidered that in attention of the other general readers who are normal and don't deserve your misinformatios and deviations.
So, take note: The answers are directed towards those readers...
1- ...This individual not owning an Examiner clearly (and insanely) tries to 'insinuate' there's no diode soldered to the pot... ...I was challenged to post a picture. I won't do this of course. I respect the proprietary circuit secret of the manufacturer, unlike this individual who enjoys hacking detectors in desperation of his own incompetence.
2 - I said the scientific comunity uses AIAS as basis for their research.
This is asolutely true, although I misexpressed myself a little. I wanted to state the scientific comunity watches regularly the developments in AIAS and matches its own. ...
3 - The third question relates to his total ignorance in RF fundamentals. It was all twisted as a clear ignorance of what transmission lines is. 'Shoot' a siginal line? Oh my God.. May I recomend to this individual chapter 1 of the ARRL book for a basic understanding of RF transmission process?
What I said is that the Examiner sends out a signal and aligns with the responsive one. This creates a signal line, in the same manner a frequency broadcast is received by any ordinary receiver tuned to that frequency. ...
Now wait a minute... hung has just posted some more false information!
Look at #1 - Here is hung's original statement of how he measured inside his Ranger Tell:
From page: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=63618&#post63618 "The way I was measuring the variances, was opening the examiner box and placing the positive probe in the lead of the diode which is connected to the pot".And now hung says I clearly (and insanely) try to insinuate theres no diode soldered to the pot. Am I insane? I did not insinuate there is no diode soldered to a pot. I stated a fact, no insinuation:
From page: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=63725#post63725 I do not see any photos of his measurements that he claims he made inside the circuit board area, at "the diode which is connected to the pot". In fact there is no place the diode is connected to a pot inside the Ranger Tell, as Carl's internal photos show. The diode is connected between an enameled coil and a variable capacitor. (Did hung really open up a Ranger Tell)? Hung says he won't show a picture of the diode connected to a pot. He lists the reason that he respects the proprietary circuit secret of the manufacturer, while his previous reason was about the calculator falling and making it hard to take photos! Hahahahaaa... There is no secret! We all have seen the photos of the inside of the Ranger Tell diode model as well as the schematic for it. We all know there is no pot soldered to the diode. Is the real reason why hung won't show photos because he knows he will show a photo that proves he never measured from a place where the diode connects to a pot? Is it possible hung refuses to show a photo because he knows he would have to show a photo that proves he sent out false information? Would hung's photo inside the Ranger Tell prove he never opened the Ranger Tell?
Look at #2 where hung says: "I said the scientific comunity uses AIAS as basis for their research."
Nice try at fooling us hung, But that's not what you said. What you said is still here for all to see from this page: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=63185#post63185
If you navigate the internet correctly, you will find out how ALL scientific comunity in the world utilizes AIAS as basis for their research.
But now hung tries to erase his false information by saying "I misexpressed myself a little"? Now his new changed statement is only the last half of his original statement that has been edited? "the scientific comunity watches regularly the developments in AIAS and matches its own". I can agree that some of the scientific community probably does watch AIAS regularly, but not ALL. From asking the people I know in the scientific community, I concluded less than 10% of them ever heard of AIAS. But they seem to know Myron Evans. The scientists I know laughed when they heard Myron Evans in charge.
Look at #3 where hung tries to say I'm ignorant of RF fundamentals.
Hung claims he said "What I said is that the Examiner sends out a signal and aligns with the responsive one". But this as a lie! Here is what hung said in his original post at this page: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=41226#post41226 "This is the principle in which the Rangertell Examiner works. Resonance to the elements subatomic levels when a carrier signal line is shot and returned". Hung goes on to say I am ignorant of RF fundamentals when I quote his words? Does anyone in this forum except hung believe Radio transmitters "shoot signal lines"? Now hung is trying to assign his ignorance to me because I quoted him?
Hung then goes on to explain that the Examiner sends out a signal... but wait, the Ranger Tell has no broadcasting equipment in it! In fact the Examiner has no working circuits in it. Look at the circuit diagram and the photos below and see if you can find a transmitter or receiver, or any circuit that is capable of doing anything. (also look for where the diode is connected to a pot).
Does it look like hung has been feeding us more false information?
Clondike Clad
12-30-2007, 07:17 AM
Hung can you tell us what is going on?????????????.
roberts
12-30-2007, 09:21 AM
Must be that he own quite different version of device???:lol::razz:
Whatever version it must be, all the versions are absolute nonsence - bogus devices. Not only this, look any other LRL schematics! What you can see there? Nonsenced wired up components and wires!?
On the other side, if you take a closer look at some real device, let's say some 2 box, let's say Fisher Gemini or White's TM808 (direct answer to Max) you can see real schematic,device....already proven as workable. Yes Max, there is a way to achieve some "distances" more than with conventional md's. Already done by Fisher and White's. So much from these principles. Can you gain more? I dont think so! At least not significant improvements.
OK, let me give you some clues here:
if you want to experiment further here, on this subject; you should take some 2 box design (simple one for a start) and try to dig out how to improve it.
Conditionaly named "lrl" can be achieved only using 2 box principles. Man can gain few inches more (or maybe even more) using those.
But drawbacks are already known; no way to discriminate detected metals.
That can be real stuff.
But.....telescopic antenas,"ionic chambers", "ir",calculators,bulky wires!?? No way man! Those are usually mixed up in most strangest "devices" by persons, not educated at all, like few members we have here.
Funny and sad!
Must be that he own quite different version of device???:lol::razz:
Whatever version it must be, all the versions are absolute nonsence - bogus devices. Not only this, look any other LRL schematics! What you can see there? Nonsenced wired up components and wires!?
On the other side, if you take a closer look at some real device, let's say some 2 box, let's say Fisher Gemini or White's TM808 (direct answer to Max) you can see real schematic,device....already proven as workable. Yes Max, there is a way to achieve some "distances" more than with conventional md's. Already done by Fisher and White's. So much from these principles. Can you gain more? I dont think so! At least not significant improvements.
OK, let me give you some clues here:
if you want to experiment further here, on this subject; you should take some 2 box design (simple one for a start) and try to dig out how to improve it.
Conditionaly named "lrl" can be achieved only using 2 box principles. Man can gain few inches more (or maybe even more) using those.
But drawbacks are already known; no way to discriminate detected metals.
That can be real stuff.
But.....telescopic antenas,"ionic chambers", "ir",calculators,bulky wires!?? No way man! Those are usually mixed up in most strangest "devices" by persons, not educated at all, like few members we have here.
Funny and sad!
Hi,
yes is what I think too about device improvements.
It's clear that there are a lot of bogus claimed working LRL pistols... and we have above a clear example of that... maybe the idea of such "manifacturer" is let users think that there's some principle behind the nonsense like putting some coils and caps here an there to let people suppose there's some kind of tuning... and actually there could be... but are totally meaningless things the same as putting turns of telephone wire all around head.
I think 2boxes are ancestors of some "small range" stuff out there (I was thinking the same also before)... few improvement on existing technology...that's what I think.
Other stuff are just wallet mining operations like quadro things... and all the bogus affairs of MFD (or MFID) ... or electrostatic zahoris... or ferrite goldgun's... ion clouds...etc etc all magic of crystals ! :lol:
Kind regards,
Max
The posted picture comes from an early (maybe the first) Examiner model.
I was told that early last year RT launched an all diode Examiner model.
This is the one I presently own.
Simple question. Simple answer.
It's clear that there are a lot of bogus claimed working LRL pistols... and we have above a clear example of that... maybe the idea of such "manifacturer" is let users think that there's some principle behind the nonsense like putting some coils and caps here an there to let people suppose there's some kind of tuning... and actually there could be... but are totally meaningless things the same as putting turns of telephone wire all around head.
I think 2boxes are ancestors of some "small range" stuff out there (I was thinking the same also before)... few improvement on existing technology...that's what I think.
Other stuff are just wallet mining operations like quadro things... and all the bogus affairs of MFD (or MFID) ... or electrostatic zahoris... or ferrite goldgun's... ion clouds...etc etc all magic of crystals ! :lol:
Kind regards,
Max
Max,
The Examiner is clearly a radionic device.
Now if you don't believe in radionics, dowsing, zahoris, UFOs, etc. it's another thing and you have all the right to do it and it's your prvillege too.
My voltage variances testings are all there for everybody to see. For what the examiner is supposed to do, the AC variations for instance only showed what it to be expected from the device's concept. If people think I faked the test, hooked the probe to myself, my dog or to a refrigerator, I don't care..
I just think I did a good service for the general reader who will get the same results if they can replicate the test.
Among the other skeptics I consider yourself as the one with the least blocked mind of all. Possibly for your gathered knowledge and not so 'cocky' personality. Please, if you can't move on, keep it at least like that.
Happy new year.
Qiaozhi
12-30-2007, 12:10 PM
The Examiner is clearly a radionic device.
Radionics is associated with alternative medicine, whereas the Examiner is basically a dowsing device. The only possible link between radionics and the Examiner is that they're both based on psuedoscience, and the dubious idea of subtle energy transmission between a living being and the environment.
Now if you don't believe in radionics, dowsing, zahoris, UFOs, etc. it's another thing and you have all the right to do it and it's your prvillege too.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
My voltage variances testings are all there for everybody to see. For what the examiner is supposed to do, the AC variations for instance only showed what it to be expected from the device's concept. If people think I faked the test, hooked the probe to myself, my dog or to a refrigerator, I don't care..
I just think I did a good service for the general reader who will get the same results if they can replicate the test.
Your "analysis" doesn't even agree with the general (misconceived) ideas behind radionics. Although, as I stated earlier, this is actually a form of dowsing.
Among the other skeptics I consider yourself as the one with the least blocked mind of all. Possibly for your gathered knowledge and not so 'cocky' personality. Please, if you can't move on, keep it at least like that.
I think you will find that Max is as skeptical as the rest of us. :razz:
joecoin
12-30-2007, 02:45 PM
I have a theory regarding the "diode" connected to the potentiometer.
I believe that Hung mistook the variable capacitor for a potentiometer. It is very easy for someone with limited knowledge of electronic components to make that mistake.
If Hung could post a picture of ONLY that part of the circuit which he believes is the potentiometer, perhaps we could be of assistance to him.
I believe that Hung mistook the variable capacitor for a potentiometer. It is very easy for someone with limited knowledge of electronic components to make that mistake.
What, another joker here?:razz::lol:
Err..My limted knowledge of electronics made me built lots of devices to this date. Wow, it was just a mirage!?:lol::lol::lol:
I think this subject is going towards the realms of insanity, as people don't believe there's indeed a model different from the picture shown which a diode is directly soldered to the pot.
If you don't believe, sorry. Maybe you can ask this to RT directly if you think this is a lie.
This case is closed for me. I will not post regarding this subject anymore.
Qiaozhi
12-30-2007, 03:25 PM
This case is closed for me. I will not post regarding this subject anymore.
Good. :thumb:
roberts
12-30-2007, 04:55 PM
"...My voltage variances testings are all there for everybody to see...."
Now, this is exceptionally huge B.S. !!!:oh:
Only totally non educated person will claim "miracles" when realize that "skin" charge exist for real..!:lol::lol::lol:
Every possibe material,item,thing,surface has preference called static charge.
Am i first here to post this???
If you put probes across two different potentials, you will measure some microvolts,millivots etc...
Especially if you use high impendanced inputs instrument, like it was in your case...:lol::lol::lol:
Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha!!!!!
Is that what should be yor main argument!? Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha!!!!!!
Why dont you perform same measurement with some analogue multimeter?
Unimeter with VU scale, fer instance? Ha,ha,ha,ha!!!!
Non educated, simple minded man will always stay the same. No help!
Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha..!!!!!
Use one potato or one apple. Stick probes in and measure!!!! You will get milivolts enough to locate coin at 2 miles distance!!!:D:lol::lol::lol::lol:
I had enough form this subject too. Bye!
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol:
Hi,
I have to agree with roberts...
but Robert you forget the big solar calculator there! :nono:
we already discussed it somewhere... about measures on RT... that thing is there and has some current flowing in and a bit of electrical fields at lcd display... then driving circuits are clocked and all this BS become greater and greater like it has some yeast inside :lol: cause maybe of coupling of tuned circuit with solar calculator clock lines... ????? but maybe it is tuned at frequency of gold... ;)
For me the RT's thing can be used like a flask with more advantages for the user... :lol: and no currents or voltages at all ! But one must first close all holes... and change the pot with a cork! :razz:
Best regards,
Max
Qiaozhi
12-30-2007, 05:27 PM
... and change the pot with a cork! :razz:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I can think of better place to put the cork!
It's related to something beginning with "h".
J_Player
12-30-2007, 08:44 PM
Err..My limted knowledge of electronics made me built lots of devices to this date. Wow, it was just a mirage!?
I think this subject is going towards the realms of insanity, as people don't believe there's indeed a model different from the picture shown which a diode is directly soldered to the pot.
...Bla, bla, bla, bla, bla.....
Clondike Clad
01-01-2008, 03:43 PM
I do thank we have em on the forum.
First of all happy new year to all.
Now let get to work on the LRL and if people tells BS and if some will lie please keep exposing them.
Now if you have a real working LRL lets learn about it.
Hung how are you doing with your LRL project what test are you doing and can you post image of your LRL.
Hung how are you doing with your LRL project what test are you doing and can you post image of your LRL.
We faced a delay in the end of the year, among other things due to a necessary interruption for a field site research. Also some imported components are still not in. So it will talke a little more time to our tests begin. Yes a picture will be shown.
Regards.
.
Hi,
I think you have to add the soundtrack... :lol:
I found an old pearl on the net that's maybe good for that...
What could be the one with best matching ?
Please vote now !
(PS: low sound volume on PC strongly recoomended and be sure you are not at work when use it !:rolleyes:)
Kind regards,
Max
Clondike Clad
01-12-2008, 09:02 AM
We faced a delay in the end of the year, among other things due to a necessary interruption for a field site research. Also some imported components are still not in. So it will talke a little more time to our tests begin. Yes a picture will be shown.
Regards.
Do you have a time to take a picture of the LRL? or a CAD would do.
humhum
09-18-2008, 09:18 PM
Hi, Qiaozhi you with how much mH(coil) constitut 92V. I constitut 19V in
collector(with 500uH coil).
or how?
Qiaozhi
09-19-2008, 12:09 AM
Hi, Qiaozhi you with how much mH(coil) constitut 92V. I constitut 19V in
collector(with 500uH coil).
or how?
What was the question? :shrug:
Hi, Qiaozhi you with how much mH(coil) constitut 92V. I constitut 19V in
collector(with 500uH coil).
or how?
Hung sure knows the answer anyway! :rolleyes:
folharin
06-22-2017, 06:20 AM
Hung sure knows the answer anyway! :rolleyes:
This is true.
kostas87
12-31-2020, 05:45 PM
Hello to this old thread, I would like circuit 2 exactly as it is, if anyone has designed it with all the parts simply; I would like him to send it to me.
happy new year...
Hello to this old thread, I would like circuit 2 exactly as it is, if anyone has designed it with all the parts simply; I would like him to send it to me.
happy new year...
You would n't like nothing :lol::lol:
kostas87
01-03-2021, 01:28 PM
You would n't like nothing :lol::lol:
like......?noting at all....χαχσ
i work the heathkit whit no ground coil and I have signal from metal at 80cm...whit out the Alonso beeper noise..don't forget I'm a farmer...
brasilpb
03-11-2021, 02:11 PM
https://i50.servimg.com/u/f50/20/15/91/63/08mi10.jpg
abdou2014
03-11-2021, 02:38 PM
Thanks for schema , is it a two box receiver ?
Pahom
03-11-2021, 02:42 PM
Good day! Thanks for the diagram of the receiving part. Very interesting . And it looks like this entrance part is very similar to Mineiro with an ion chamber. Thank you so much!!!!!!
abdou2014
03-11-2021, 02:58 PM
pls values of diodes ?
08MI !!!
Very strong 2box!!!
:)
brasilpb
03-11-2021, 05:24 PM
Good afternoon friend. Very interesting this circuit of the detector of two boxes of the miner, the 08Mi. This circuit is from the receiver, another curiosity: the input coil together with the transistor and surrounding components is also part of a colpitts oscillator, of low amplitude, the signal generated is approximately 65khz, with an amplitude around 70mvpp . The transmitter signal has a potentiometer where it is possible to adjust the transmission frequency around 60 to 70khz, by adjusting the same frequency to the receiver, which is 65khz, the detector is silent, because the beat of the two frequencies is zero, normally used The device so that you can hear a low frequency sound in the speaker, means that the transmitter must be adjusted around 300 hz more or less than that of the receiver. boxes also acts as a BFO, being able to detect even small things. The first transistor, in addition to functioning as an oscillator, also functions as a signal mixer, where the transmitter signal is induced in the receiver's oscillating coil, the mixed signal is removed from the emitter and amplified by the next transistor, and through the germanium diode the signal is detected, and through the capacitor the high frequencies are filtered, leaving only the audio signal referring to the difference in the signal of the two transmitters. This signal is amplified again and filtered by capacitors and this audio signal goes to the sensitivity setting which is the volume potentiometer of the tba820 amplifier. Another interesting arrangement is in the circuit that provides visual indication through the VUS, a regulated source is made by the transistor bd135, where we will have a constant voltage in its emitter, the tba820 amplifier is fed in series with a 33R resistor, this is a shunt resistor, where in parallel with it is the bd136, when the signal strength is strong in the speaker a current circulates through this 33R resistor which causes a voltage drop in it, which in this case will be something in around 0.6v for the bd136 to start conducting and present a voltage in its collector, a voltage that will produce the displacement of the pointers of the vu, or turn on the night search lamp if it has been selected by the operator, this is the VU of small signals.
brasilpb
03-11-2021, 05:28 PM
a regulated source is made by the transistor bd135, where we will have a constant voltage in its emitter, the tba820 amplifier is fed in series with a 33R resistor, this is a shunt resistor, where in parallel with it is the bd136, when the signal strength is strong in the speaker a current circulates through this 33R resistor which causes a voltage drop in it, which in this case will be something in around 0.6v for the bd136 to start conducting and present a voltage in its collector, a voltage that will produce the displacement of the pointers of the vu, or turn on the night search lamp if it has been selected by the operator, this is the VU of small signals.
Thank you for explain!!:cool:
So... it works as :
1. BFO to detect small objects with coil near to ground.
2. 2 Box for big objects at ig depth...
3. LRL by using it as stimulated receiver :cool::cool::cool::cool:
brasilpb
03-11-2021, 05:44 PM
Exactly Geo, I believe that you can improve its operation in order to work better as a long-distance detector, reducing the power of the transmitter and further lowering the amplitude of the oscillating coil, in order to detect signals of much smaller amplitudes, now it remains to know how to design an oscillator that generates a sine wave of a lower amplitude than that of the miner, which in this case was 75mvpp, I think that if we could design one with an amplitude of only 5mvpp, and increasing the gain of the pre amplifier circuit in order to be able to detect this signal later, we would have a very efficient long-distance detector, remembering that the power of the transmitter at the back would have to be reduced so that the receiver and oscillator coil would be only about 5mv as well.
abdou2014
03-11-2021, 07:09 PM
a question for our friend Geo :) we have an increase of how many hertz for a stimulator at 100 hz and how many for a stimulator at 100 khz near the phenomenon ?
Exactly Geo, I believe that you can improve its operation in order to work better as a long-distance detector, reducing the power of the transmitter and further lowering the amplitude of the oscillating coil, in order to detect signals of much smaller amplitudes, now it remains to know how to design an oscillator that generates a sine wave of a lower amplitude than that of the miner, which in this case was 75mvpp, I think that if we could design one with an amplitude of only 5mvpp, and increasing the gain of the pre amplifier circuit in order to be able to detect this signal later, we would have a very efficient long-distance detector, remembering that the power of the transmitter at the back would have to be reduced so that the receiver and oscillator coil would be only about 5mv as well.
75mv is a low signal, no problem.
At wich point did you measud it???
a question for our friend Geo :) we have an increase of how many hertz for a stimulator at 100 hz and how many for a stimulator at 100 khz near the phenomenon ?
I don't know, i have n't experience on it.
Before years two friends said me that they measured it and was a small drift.
Maybe at 100Khz 50...100Hz, i don't remember exactly :|
zakari
03-12-2021, 07:16 AM
hi brasilpb
i cant the see your schematic
can you upload again
best regard
zakari
brasilpb
03-12-2021, 11:26 AM
https://i50.servimg.com/u/f50/20/15/91/63/08mi_m10.jpg
brasilpb
03-12-2021, 11:37 AM
https://i50.servimg.com/u/f50/20/15/91/63/bobina10.jpg
brasilpb
03-12-2021, 11:42 AM
https://i50.servimg.com/u/f50/20/15/91/63/75mv10.jpg
oscilloscope adjusted to vertical scale 10mv / div
abdou2014
03-12-2021, 02:18 PM
I don't know, i have n't experience on it.
Before years two friends said me that they measured it and was a small drift.
Maybe at 100Khz 50...100Hz, i don't remember exactly :|
Thank you :)
Hello Brasilpb.
Can you measure the signal at emmiter and collector of first transistor???
:)
zakari
03-12-2021, 07:32 PM
https://i50.servimg.com/u/f50/20/15/91/63/bobina10.jpg
hi brasilpb
thank you so much.
best regard
zakari
brasilpb
03-12-2021, 08:22 PM
Hello Brasilpb.
Can you measure the signal at emmiter and collector of first transistor???
:)
I already closed the device, but the signal on the emitter will theoretically be practically the same as on the base, the signal from the collector will be much higher but it is not used.
brasilpb
03-12-2021, 08:31 PM
https://i50.servimg.com/u/f50/20/15/91/63/08m10.jpg
Exactly Geo, I believe that you can improve its operation in order to work better as a long-distance detector, reducing the power of the transmitter and further lowering the amplitude of the oscillating coil, in order to detect signals of much smaller amplitudes, now it remains to know how to design an oscillator that generates a sine wave of a lower amplitude than that of the miner, which in this case was 75mvpp, I think that if we could design one with an amplitude of only 5mvpp, and increasing the gain of the pre amplifier circuit in order to be able to detect this signal later, we would have a very efficient long-distance detector, remembering that the power of the transmitter at the back would have to be reduced so that the receiver and oscillator coil would be only about 5mv as well.
Hi.
The signal of buried metals or the phenomenon modulates the signal of oscilator and the diode demodulate it, so the signal of oscillator is not problem. I have see similar techniques where the signal at base is 150.. 200 mv so the 75mv of this oscillator is very good.
You must adjust the transmiter right so to works as stimulator coil...
Regards
aft_72005
03-13-2021, 10:12 AM
https://i50.servimg.com/u/f50/20/15/91/63/08mi10.jpg
Hi brasilpb
Thanks for your data:thumb: . please upload TX circuit too
Regards .
liudengyuand
04-25-2021, 11:44 AM
yes
folharin
04-28-2021, 04:26 AM
hello brazil pb!!l! how did you measure 65khz????
folharin
04-28-2021, 04:29 AM
what measurement method did you use?
brasilpb
05-06-2021, 01:21 AM
I used an oscilloscope and a frequency meter to read the frequency correctly.
brasilpb
05-07-2021, 04:57 PM
https://i.ibb.co/3vz4kBW/transmissor-mineoro-08mi.png
abdou2014
09-23-2021, 03:04 PM
65khz or 60 to 70 khz has low penetration underground , you need VLF range
shahrayar
10-06-2021, 04:28 PM
What is special about this scheme?
Just like BDK
https://i50.servimg.com/u/f50/20/15/91/63/08m10.jpg
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