Help!

[Earthworm Jim]

Help me! Anybody know something about Magnacast 5000?
Any experiences?
Thanks in advance!

[J_Player]

Hi Earthworm Jim,

Read what we know about Magnacast 5000 here: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?t=13089

Best wishes,
J_P

[Seden]

J Player,
Just for grins I emailed the Chinese Company that Mfrs. the VR1000B treasure locator for a quote. Interesting that it works in the 400MHZ band and wonder if it would be legal here in the states. Would be kinda fun to play with though.
Ahso deska! (Japanese expression,sorry).

Randy

[J_Player]

Hi Seden,

Most radio transmitters are legal if kept under certain maxmum power levels. When I read the Magnacast 5000 instruction manual, I see it shows a setting that goes as high as 50 meters (164 feet). I think maybe the effective radiated power is kept below the maximum to allow transmitting the UHF band. It appears the Magnacast 5000 may work at a different frequency or frequencies than the VR1000.

In the case of the VR1000, the manual says to test it by placing several coins or pieces of jewelry about 50 feet from the transmitter -- also probably a legal transmitting power level.

Considering the inventor of the Vernell long range locators was a certified television technician, and considering he sells these products in the USA, it would seem likely that they are legal here.

See the magnacast 5000 manual here: http://www.vrdetectors.com/5000%20MANUAL%20-%20PDF/Manual-VR5000-from-PDF.pdf

See the VR1000 manual here: http://www.vrdetectors.com/1000INST.doc

I would be interested to hear what the Chinese manufacturer charges for the VR1000. If it is less than $100, it may be fun to order one to test.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi Seden,
I would be interested to hear what the Chinese manufacturer charges for the VR1000. If it is less than $100, it may be fun to order one to test.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_Player.
I think thay 100$ is very low price for the VR1000. As i looked i found at a shop at Florida the VR-1000 for 1800$ and the Magnacast 5000 for 2500$.
Regards:)

[Earthworm Jim]

Thank you! I havent see those yesterday.
I will read those first.
Regards!

[J_Player]

Hi J_Player.
I think thay 100$ is very low price for the VR1000. As i looked i found at a shop at Florida the VR-1000 for 1800$ and the Magnacast 5000 for 2500$.
Regards:)

Hi Geo,
According to Carl, the VR2000 does not work to find treasure. And the Magnacast 5000 is similar. Dell Winders Also says that he was unable to use these forward gauss machines because operating conditions deteriorated affecting the reliability of the instrument making it impractical for his use in 1988.

This makes me think this machine does not find treasure, and is not worth more than $100 to me. Maybe they will not sell for $100, but for me, I will not find more than $100 of fun playing with a machine that does not find treasure. If the Chinese manufacturer will not sell for less than $100, then I can get the same fun from looking at these machines picture at the website for no money spent.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Seden]

Yeah your right J Player, even spending a $100 would be a wee bit too much just to play around (my wife would take a very dim view of such expensive fun).

Like you said, it doesn't cost anything to look at the picture.

Randy

[Max]

Help me! Anybody know something about Magnacast 5000?
Any experiences?
Thanks in advance!

Hi Jim,
I haven't direct experience with this stuff... and never see it working or the like but one my friend had one of these... but I trust my friend and just report what he said me about :

FOUND: nothing
STABILITY : none (receive rf noise)
USEFULNESS : none
IMPRESSION: "pieces of junk glued with lot of spit" (textual as he reported) :shocked:

I think that last was due to furstration... cause he searched all over the places... for 1 or 2 years and found nothing at all! Also bought for thousands dollars... you know.

Seems can't find any gold or everything else... think you could do better with any wallmart detector... and also you would find one at lower price! :rolleyes:

As said... no direct experience. He reselled unit before I could test it or open cover... :(


Best regards,
Max

[Mike(Mont)]

I don't know what it is with this website but it continually logs me off when I am trying to post so I'm not posting the info again.

I have lots of info on the Magnacast, maybe even something that might help Carl.

ITMT maybe Carl will sell his unit for $100? :lol:

[Seden]

Ok guy's,
the Chinese company that mfr's. the VR1000B replied to me with a quote of $2,750 USD! Wow and to think of how many goods the US buy's from them and that's the thanks I get :angry: .


Randy

[J_Player]

$2750?? Dang ... The USA inventor will sell you the same thing after the Chinese manufacturer imports it to him for only $2500. :angry: Pretty tricky, them Chinese factories.

Well, even the USA price is $2400 too much for me, considering nobody ever saw it find anything. I figure if I could get one for under $100 delivered, then, after playing with it and testing it, (and taking photos of the inside and making a schematic for the forum), I could sell it for at least $250 on ebay. This is only a wild guess, because a real working metal detector less than 2 years old will usually sell between 50% and 80% of its retail value. But a little-known LRL that has consistent failure reports would only appeal to a few suckers who are determined to get a bargain instead of paying retail. So I speculate that 10 cents on the dollar is a good sales pitch. If I had one of these to advertise for sale used on ebay, I would state out front that "this long range locator is in perfect working condition and it finds NO TREASURE for me. It is not even worth the shipping cost. But if you think I am wrong, starting bids are $250... "

I think I would probably recover my "toy money", and some extra.

As P. T. Barnum said....

J_P

[Geo]

2750$ ??:angry: :angry:
I believe that they search for crazy people:razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz:
Yes 2750$ is a very good price for the chinese manufacture to make money from us :lol: :lol: :lol:

[J_Player]

Yes 2750$ is a very good price for the chinese manufacture to make money from us :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hi Geo,

Hahahahaaa... Yes, I think it cost Chinese factory $22 for parts and $12 for labour to construct LRL. After adding shipping cost, the total factory cost is maybe $64 USD. This is the reason why I look for price under $100. Factory owner can put $36 in pocket after take my $100 USD.

Maybe my numbers are wrong, but this is no problem for me, because I will never pay more than $100 for toy that nobody can find treasure with. :razz::razz::razz:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Mike(Mont)]

I talked to Bill Dunning about the Chinese VR1000B. He said that was not the current model.

[Mike(Mont)]

When using the Magnacast 5000 (aka VR5000) you need to pivot the Scan Gun antenna on it's own axis. If you try to sweep it like an L-rod, the distance between the antenna and the transmitter changes. Look for a sharp or irregular response--as soon as you pass the signal line the response will drop sharply. Setting the RSL is critical, a finer tuning would be helpful to get as close to the threshold as possible.

[Mike(Mont)]

When learning, set out a target then work it from every angle until you find out what's happening. Try to position yourself 13.5 feet from the transmitter. Much like a metal detector, it takes a practiced ear and attention as well as exact tuning. As I said, a fine tuning control for the RSL would be very helpful. Try walking through the signal line and watch for a sharp drop off. The quick/sharp or even irregular responses are what you are looking for. A gold ring can cause a flickering responses

Someone said Carl has an electric fence. It doesn't seem like this would be a good practice area.

[Max]

When learning, set out a target then work it from every angle until you find out what's happening. Try to position yourself 13.5 feet from the transmitter. Much like a metal detector, it takes a practiced ear and attention as well as exact tuning. As I said, a fine tuning control for the RSL would be very helpful. Try walking through the signal line and watch for a sharp drop off. The quick/sharp or even irregular responses are what you are looking for. A gold ring can cause a flickering responses

Someone said Carl has an electric fence. It doesn't seem like this would be a good practice area.

Hi Mike,
sorry but I have to ask...

"Try to position yourself 13.5 feet from the transmitter." eh ???

HAVE YOU ALREADY THE TREASURE MAP ??? :razz:

C'mon... what's that feets for ? When I want to search for something using an MD I switch it on, tune for geb and start sweeping... :lol:

Don't make a PLAN! Don't make feet measures... like "the pirates of the carribean"... all that stuff is a pile of B.S. man.
Seems same stuff I've seen about (other) LRLs you need low humidity... you need the sunrise... you need a "moulin rouge's girl"... you need a GURU!

This thing indicate where the "treasure" is ???
if so, ok, try win the challenge!
I'll support you with my mind... but if not... please STOP putting PILES of B.S. informations.

As my friend say (and I've no dubt about) all this stuff Magnamix or whatever... is: "pieces of junk glued with lot of spit".

Best regards,
Max

PS: "A gold ring can cause a flickering responses " yeah, and my fart too.

[Mike(Mont)]

Well, I guess you know more about it than I do.

[Max]

Well, I guess you know more about it than I do.

Hi Mike,
I've not used it... never tested myself. But belive my friend (very serious person and really skilled on all this stuff).
Think that all this stuff is similar to other things (LRL) but have different packaging...

He reported to me that had really huge interferences due to power lines... radio stations... radar etc etc

He didn't found anything! Anything! Wasted a lot of time...

Kind regards,
Max

[Mike(Mont)]

Just like 95% of all metal detectorists. It's not easy to detect gold next to iron with any discriminating metal detector. You can't just turn on a metal detector and expect to find gold. Most people never master a metal detector. Add in a negative attitude and you have the recipe for failure. And a get-rich-quick attitude is worse, yet. Reminds me of the guy with the two-box who dug a monster hole in his yard. It's faulty logic to then say that two-boxes don't work, and that's exactly what you are doing with locators. Carl admitted that he needed to spend more time with the VR2000. I've offered a few helpful tips.

[Mike(Mont)]

Just like 95% of all metal detectorists. It's not easy to detect gold next to iron with any discriminating metal detector. You can't just turn on a metal detector and expect to find gold. Most people never master a metal detector. Add in a negative attitude and you have the recipe for failure. And a get-rich-quick attitude is worse, yet. Reminds me of the guy with the two-box who dug a monster hole in his yard. It's faulty logic to then say that two-boxes don't work, and that's exactly what you are doing with locators. Carl admitted that he needed to spend more time with the VR2000. I've offered a few helpful tips.

[Mike(Mont)]

RE post #17 about the 13.5 feet distance from the transmitter:

This distance is when using signal strength #1 (lowest). If you use more power, you will need to use more distance.

[Max]

Hi,
I remain of my idea... anyway...

if it's so easy to do for an "expert" user of that things
WHY NOBODY TRY THE CHALLENGE AND GOT THE MONEY !?

NOBODY! WHY ??? MAYBE THESE DEVICES JUST DON'T WORK... and we are talking about dreams...

With my MD I'm sure I can find stuff in a reliable way. Could test on different soils and got signals... pinpoint... and find stuff! Can that MagnaCharta do the same ???

I think that Carl need more time to spend with that device... and probably haven't (as many others here) to test accurately at now.
This don't mean that stuff really works.

Till now I've seen too many claims and absolutely no-real-discoveries made from that LRLs.

All discoveries were made , if LRL was present, using conventional MD (PI mainly) and mags... so digging stuff.

Never heard that someone found anything just using LRL... also counting steps. (I mean not science-fiction stories... but real , documented discoveries)

Just my thoughts... but untill someone find something using all these things and some serious scientific approach/theory justify that claims I'll not change my point of view.

Best regards,
Max

[Mike(Mont)]

Vigilante justice mindset might seem like a noble thing but it's really just a way to take out your frustrations/aggressions on someone else. Reminds me of people with an unruly dog. They won't admit they are at fault. I've said it before, many people just can't learn on their own. I totally disagree with your idea about metal detectors. All evidence points the opposite way.

[Earthworm Jim]

It appears that Mineoro not working,
Magnacast not working,
OKM not working,
UG.. not working,
Dell not working,
any LRL not working!?
So, do we have any chance to go deeper than conventional MD ? Any other device?
Is that all what modern science can offer to us?

[Qiaozhi]

I totally disagree with your idea about metal detectors. All evidence points the opposite way.
Well, I guess you know more about it than I do.
I agree. Max does know more than you do. :razz:

[Qiaozhi]

It appears that Mineoro not working,
Magnacast not working,
OKM not working,
UG.. not working,
Dell not working,
any LRL not working!?
So, do we have any chance to go deeper than conventional MD ? Any other device?
Is that all what modern science can offer to us?






Has it ever occurred to anyone that Garrett, Whites, Fisher, Tesoro, Minelabs, and all the other reputable metal detector manufacturers do not sell LRLs. Why is this? Perhaps they are just incompetent engineers who are unable to think outside the box.
Alternatively, they may just know a thing or two about science. 8)

[Mike(Mont)]

What else should I expect from a skeptic website? Everyone claims to know everything about the Magnacast except for one small detail--they ain't never even seen one. Now that's about as scientific as you can get.

[Seden]

I just re-read your posts and I get the impression that you actually own a VR1000 or 2000,is this correct?

[J_Player]

Putting aside the question of whether the VR series of LRLs works or not, what Mike(Mont) says is interesting.

His source of information is Bill Dunning, CEO of Vernell Electronics that developed the VR series of long range locators. The Magnacast 5000 consists of a RF transmitter with a coil transmitting antenna, and a hand-held "scan gun" receiver. What Bill told Mike(Mont) is to maintain the receiver sensor at a fixed distance of 13.5 feet from the transmitter coil and rotate the hand held receiver in a manner similar to a radio direction finder. Now, in order to maintain the 13.5 feet, you would walk in an arc 13.5 feet from the transmitter coil while rotating the sensor and looking for anomalies in signal strength along that arc. Presumably you will find an anomaly when you walk along the arc and cross a "signal line" from the target. According to Dunning, this anomaly can be an irregular response or a sharp drop in response of the receiver scan gun. Dunning also said it is important to set the RSL to get as close as possible to the threshold as possible. Also, looking at the instruction manual from the Vernell website, we see that the search area is limited to a 45 degree arc in front of the transmitter coil.

Magical 13.5 feet distance?
What comes to mind when listening to this kind of instruction are two things: First, what is the magical 13.5 feet distance? Is this distance related to the broadcast frequency and the wavelength of the RF that is broadcast? Does 13.5 feet correspond to a 1/4 wavelength for an 18 MHZ signal? Until we have more information about the 5000 model we cannot know the answer to the magic 13.5 feet distance.

Signal line can be easily tested:
A second thing that comes to mind is the "Scan Gun" sensor is intended to be used by rotating it from a fixed location, then moving it to various locations and rotating it again, looking for variations in received signal at the different locations. This sounds like the scan gun is a directional antenna being used to survey the plot of land in front of the transmitter. What Dunning suggests is you are looking for a "signal line" which we presume is a straight line terminating at the target. Fortunately, the existence of this "signal line" can be tested by placing a target on the surface of the ground and surveying the plot of land between the transmitter and the target. According to Dunning, we do not need to rely on long-time buried gold or dig large craters in order to verify these signal lines.

Where are the VR detectors really manufactured?
Another item of interest is the product line shown at Vernell Electronics is includes the VR1000, which looks to be identical to the VR1000B sold by a Chinese factory. While the Vernell Electronics VR1000 unit is priced at $2750, (same as the Chinese VR1000B), they have it on special for $1802.50. This is not the same unit as the Magnacast 5000 that Earthworm Jim asked about, with a listed price of $2500.

When we look at the Shanghai TianXun Electronic Equipment Co.,Ltd web page we see only the VR1000B LRL and 10 conventional metal detectors for use in treasure hunting. Most of their metal locating products are walk-through and security metal detectors: http://www.cnmetaldetector.com/product_class.asp
Further searching produces another website in Shanghai that sells a variety of the VR models as well as Mineoro and other conventional metal detectors. Their advertising for each of the Vernell products states they sell are made in the USA:
http://www.shcx555.com/en/product.asp?Sort_ID=&keyword=&page=1
http://www.shcx555.com/en/product.asp?Sort_ID=&keyword=&page=2
http://www.shcx555.com/en/product.asp?Sort_ID=&keyword=&page=3
http://www.shcx555.com/en/product.asp?Sort_ID=&keyword=&page=4

This makes me wonder if only the VR1000 is manufactured in China, and the other VR series locators are manufactured at in the USA. Or perhaps there was once an agreement to manufacture the VR1000 in China, and maybe it was later decided to change the manufacturing plans?

Where does Dell Winders fit into this picture?
Going back to the Vernell website, we see a variety of LRL models for sale including the earlier versions using pvc pipe parts holding brass rod probes to be placed in the ground and L-rods that connect electrically. But this brings us back to Dell Winders, who says he pioneered multifrequency discrimination, and placed the first "MFD" unit on the market in 1986. When you look at the products Dell sells, we see that the "Dell Professional Model GS" looks similar to the earlier models sold by Vernell electronics. We also find in this LRL forum an earlier thread where a LRL unit Dell sold had a label identifying it as a DELL (tm) OMNITRON with a V.R. model number. Even though this unit has Dell's label on the back, Dell claims he did not manufacture it, Vernell did. Dell said he only sold these LRLs. We also find a V.R. 800 Dell Omnitron that Dell sold years ago which looks identical to the Vernell VR 800 except for minor cosmetic differences. Dell has stated he does not manufacture the electronics in his electronic instruments. We no longer see these older V.R. models for sale on Dell Winders website.

Did Vernell Electronics manufacture Dell's V.R. electronic models?
Was Dell the inventor of this technology, or was Vernell Electronics?
Perhaps Dell could enlighten us about the history of the VR series of long range locators.

See the Vernell website here: http://www.vernellelectronics.com/products.cfm
See the Dell Winders website here: http://www.omnitron.net/using_page1.htm http://www.omnitron.net/del_prod.htm

[Max]

Vigilante justice mindset might seem like a noble thing but it's really just a way to take out your frustrations/aggressions on someone else. Reminds me of people with an unruly dog. They won't admit they are at fault. I've said it before, many people just can't learn on their own. I totally disagree with your idea about metal detectors. All evidence points the opposite way.

Hi,
"it's really just a way to take out your frustrations/aggressions "...
ehm are stupid claims that furstrate me... and stupid assertion like yours.:razz:
But not too much :razz:

"They won't admit they are at fault." eh ???
which fault ??? can't see any fault on my side...
- i belive in science
- i belive in facts
- i belive in proofs

Are those my faults ??? :lol:

Have a good time with your MagnaDollars,
Max

[Max]

Hi JPlayer,
I appreciate your research about these products... that clarify some points about manifacture plants, brands etc... think that some light about that stuff of various brand goes in the direction I've indicated in a previous post... same machine... different packages... different brand etc
some new "antenna", some "particular frequency"...

Same "principles" involved. Can they work ? I think not... but who knows ? maybe I'm wrong! Maybe there is some obscure and unknow principle that make them work...

I know what my friend told me about.

I trust my friend, who read a lot all that stuff of the "Magical 13.5 feet distance"... then applied all that "instructions" on the field without any success.

Oh yeah! someone here could say that maybe there wasn't any treasure or gold items in the fields he searched... that's why the magnaXXX have not signaled anything... or that he hasn't any luck ! yeah !
Problem is that I know that places too. I found gold, copper, silver, bronze items and many other stuff there using VLFs/PIs, all small things of course... but I found them! :D And are all good targets!
And maybe there is some real big thing at depth... I don't know cause of limitation of conventional MDs to locate at great depth. Never dug under 40cm there.

Places were well known and "productive"... BUT my friend found absolutely nothing, though following all the instructions etc.

I found always something there... and when build new detectors (like with bandido) test there too. Yes sometimes is just iron... other times good targets.

As I said... all that stuff around LRLs seems to me even more idiot if I think that someone would spend 2000 or 3000 usd to get one and find NOTHING.

My friend was really depressed of his experience and selled the "unit" for half the price he bought... to recover some money. He wasted a lot of time...
Now he searches just with MDs... and found many interesting things, he's happy.

I told him do not trust LRLs, but he bought it!

What to say... It's life... sometimes is better hit a wall to understand it's there ! :lol:

Best regards,
Max

[Max]

It appears that Mineoro not working,
Magnacast not working,
OKM not working,
UG.. not working,
Dell not working,
any LRL not working!?
So, do we have any chance to go deeper than conventional MD ? Any other device?
Is that all what modern science can offer to us?







Hi,
I never said that e.g. "OKM not working" no no...
it works somehow but not as they describe on their website. I think that OKM has at least a good computer... can make some "discoveries" but not as they claim.
It's a middle-range fluxgate mag, with some other sensor ("anomalies detectors" I call them) that mix data in a human readable presentation on the screen... not too bad.

Think OKM products could be useful... e.g. if you know that you search in a place where there are e.g. cavities underground... iron stuff that could indicate you where to dig.
Problem is that can't identify just metal/gold (as they claim) and suffer (as any other device) of some drawbacks.

But it works ! :D Then, when you identify a cavity or tunnel you need some kind of depth PI (lorentz , PSII... deltapulse) to have indication (for sure) there is some metal! Then you have to dig meters of soil...

It's good ??? Depends of your needs and seach conditions...
Make what's supposed/claimed to do ??? No, not really

You need also much luck using that stuff cause you could dig an entire town and found nothing! Think that many guys from central-ASIA knows what I'm talking about... :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

So, do we have any chance to go deeper than conventional MD ? Any other device? Is that all what modern science can offer to us?

I think there is a chance to go deeper than conventional metal detectors allow. Today there are a number of technologies in use that go deeper than conventional detectors:

1. Magnetometers can find magnetic signals deeper than the deepest conventional metal detectors. but their use is limited to magnetic signals, and their use is best done using survey methods rather than simply hunting in random paths like many detectorists do.
2. Ground penetrating radar can sense objects deeper than a conventional metal detector.
3. Side scan sonar allows very deep hunting below the surface of the water that cannot be done with a metal detector at the surface. There still is some question of whether a submerged detector can spot targets as well as the sonar, because of the imaging capabilities of the sonar.
4. Ground resistivity methods have been used to successfully locate metal and ore anomalies and other objects much deeper than any conventional metal detector can sense. This is also best done with imaging methods.
5. Induced polarization (SIP) soil testing methods are similar to ground resistivity measurements, except the phase angle of a pulse is measured. The results produced by this kind of testing is much more effective than simple resistivity probing, and is used by mining exploration companies to locate ore bodies and other metal objects in the ground.
6. Gamma (nuclear spectral identification) testing has been used successfully for the past 20 years to pinpoint ore and oil deposits over 5000 feet deep. But only a few reliable hand-held units are in existence outside the units in the NASA satellites.
7. Recent testing in the past 20 years has led to using chemical analysis of the surface soils to find anomalies that pinpoint the location of underground ore bodies including metallic gold. There are also mining exploration companies who look for the presence of certain microbes in the soil that are known to digest metallic gold to indicate the location of gold deposits beneath the soil.

Where does the future hold?
The search for better methods always continues. As long as there are people who want to push the limits of treasure locating, we will find experimenters and researchers looking for new ways to use technology. The conventional metal detectors are constantly being improved, as a patent search will confirm the new patents issued this year. Each of the other methods I listed above have improvements in the making as we speak, as well. The methods I listed are only some of the better known methods to search deeper than a conventional metal detector. In addition, there are other methods I have not listed that are in use and being developed. You won't find these "other methods" in this forum for a number of reasons.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Earthworm Jim]

Many thanks!
OKM - had 2004 on test, also Gems. I have to admitt - i am not expert in hadling so might be subjective, but...
2004, also Gems are showing mostly different pictures on same spots?
Also heard same experiences from other people.
Is it also "weather - dependable" as Mineoro?
I dont want to waste big money on devices like that!

[J_Player]

Hi Earthworm Jim,

An easy way to avoid wasting big money is to ask the people selling the machine to show you it working in front of you before you hand over the cash. Most reputable metal detector dealers will be happy to demonstrate their various models so you have first-hand experience seeing which is your favorite machine for locating a hidden treasure.

In the case of the Magnacast 5000, you can easily test to see if you can locate a coin or piece of jewelry, because the target does not need to be a long-time buried object. Simply let the dealer set up the Magnacast 5000 in a field where there are no targets, then put a gold ring about 30 feet away hidden beneath one inch of soil and let him show you how to locate it.

Be sure to stop and "hide the ring" in about 10 different locations so he won't know which one you actually put it. After he finds the ring, then try it yourself. See if you can hear the signal and if you can track it to your ring. Also, bring a conventional metal detector along just in case something goes wrong with the Magnacast 5000 demonstration. If you don't have one, Walmart will work ok for a ring an inch below the surface of the ground. Hope this helps.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

Was Dell the inventor of this technology, or was Vernell Electronics?


Sorry, your research is incomplete. Nowhere have I ever claimed to be the inventor of this technology. My creations are the Dell directional locator & the X-Scan.

OKM not working,
Dell not working,
any LRL not working!?

EARTHWORM JIM. My suggestion to you and my critics on this forum would be, not to bother to even attempt to search for deep buried treasure that is beyond the limitations of the detectors that you know will work for you.

With everything non-conventional that you don't understand, there is going to be a learning curve to using it. If it's too difficult for you to learn, why bother talking about it.

My Remote Sensing Frequency Discriminator (Pro-4) and the OKM Rover C (EM) were working fine yesterday behind the Holiday Inn, at Cocoa Beach, Florida. I was the only thing that wasn't functioning up to par. Dell

[J_Player]

Hi Dell,
It's nice to see you are recovering.

I am beginning to wonder about your comment:
Sorry, your research is incomplete. Nowhere have I ever claimed to be the inventor of this technology. My creations are the Dell directional locator & the X-Scan.

Did I say you were the inventor of the technology that Vernell Electronics invented? I thought I asked if you were.

What I did say is that you said you "pioneered multifrequency discrimination, and placed the first "MFD" unit on the market in 1986".
The source of this information is your website where you say: "We are the creators of OMNITRON and the Molecular Frequency Discrimination, MFD remote sensing concept. I placed the very first MFD on the market in 1986..." http://www.omnitron.net/del_prod.htm

When I look at the early MFD devices you sold and your Dell (tm) V.R. 800 Omnitron System II Anomaly Qualifier, I see a striking similarity to the Vernell devices. In fact, you told Carl that Vernell manufactured one of the devices with your nameplate on it in another thread. This leads me to believe you had business ties with Vernell Electronics. A quick search on the map shows the Vernell headquarters is in easy driving range of where you are. And when you say "We are the creators of the Omnitron", it makes me think you created the Dell (tm) V.R. 800 Omnitron System II Anomaly Qualifier. What you say on your website is confusing. It seems obvious that Vernell was in some way involved in the production of your V.R. 800.

This is the reason I asked if you could enlighten us about the history of the VR series of long range locators. I am interested to know the story about the development of the VR series. I see the photos above of Dell V.R. 800 that does not appear to be functionally different than the Vernell VR 800. It would seem that You were using the L-rods much earlier than V. R. Rose, who founded Vernell Electronics. But I don't know the facts, that's why I asked you.

Of course, if you don't want us to know the facts, that is ok too.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

DUH! If I was not the inventor, I certainly would not claim I was the inventor, or manufacturer of VR-detectors, or even LRL's.

I have posted for years letting people know that I am not the inventor. Folks here continue to confuse and believe their own assumptions as being truth and fact.

Your quoted references from me are true. I do not lie, nor is there any reason for me to do so.

Check your dates. Vernell detectors were far from being the first frequency Discriminators on the market.

Vernon Rose is no doubt the original inventor. His instruments were fully electronic in 1979, and not intended for the market, and certainly none of his products were on the market in 1986, electronic, or with the use of Antenna Rods.


I was the one who introduced the hand held antenna Rods to use as an inexpensive alternative to the electronic receivers which were NOT introduced to the market until about 20 years later, using outdated technology.

This information has already been posted many times over many years. But, you are right! I don't have to tell you anything, or even post on this forum.

As long as Carl, allows, and contributes to dis-respectful inferences and inneuendo, and ignoramus mockery, you will see even fewer of my posts and efforts to share any knowledge, or field experience with Remote sensing Frequency Discrimination. It's your loss.

What has been done, and is being done, can be done. A fact that is ignored, and mocked on this forum.

Get real folks. get off your egotistical high horses. You aren't smart enough to know and understand everything about the Physics of Earth Science. In fact, I read your posts and shake my head in disappointment at the pretense of knowledge, and deception by supposedly educated people.

With Carl, it's intentional. He has an agenda. With the rest of you it appears to be the blind following the blind. Are there only a couple of you capable of thinking for your self, or does Monkey have to do as monkey see peers do? Dell

[Mike(Mont)]

Is it okay to call them "pseudoskeptics"? Seems fair to me.

[Earthworm Jim]

J Player, you have right about testing it before wasting money. And i tested already few
of those. All failed any tests so far! O.K. i am ignorant and subjective. But there are a lot
of other people with very same experiences!? Are we all ignorants?

"I was the one who introduced the hand held antenna Rods to use as an inexpensive
alternative to the electronic receivers which were NOT introduced to the market
until about 20 years later, using outdated technology."

Holding hand held antenna Rods in your hands makes me imagine that your body is
"receiver" and Rods are - antenna! Simply as that!
Further, it means (like you said) "..there is going to be a learning curve to using it."
So it is not only up to the device itself. Human mind and body should be involved
also, and playing most important role in this kind of "detecting"?!
Dell you have right when saying: "If it's too difficult for you to learn, why bother
talking about it."
I never said, i want to learn! NO!
I want to buy device, accurate device which is gonna do the job itself - without extra
mumble-jumblING arround.
I can accept the fact, that some people are capable and some are not.
Because i am not capable and dont have "third eye" i just want to buy accurate electronic
device....nothing else.
SO I ASKED SIMPLE QUESTION:
"So, do we have any chance to go deeper than conventional MD ? Any other device?
Is that all what modern science can offer to us?"

"As long as Carl, allows, and contributes to dis-respectful inferences and inneuendo,
and ignoramus mockery, you will see even fewer of my posts and efforts to share any knowledge,
or field experience with Remote sensing Frequency Discrimination. It's your loss."
Dell, i dissagree with you here. Why are you paying any attention on eventual mockery?
If you have something to offer here, c'mon offer. Those who want to accept and listen
to you - they will listen. Others, you should not mind at all.
I just asked about electronic device capable to detect burried items at higher depths than
conventional MD's...WITHOUT INVOLVING HUMAN BODY AND MIND - ONLY ELECTRONIC.

At the end it seems there is not such device at all. Shame!


"My Remote Sensing Frequency Discriminator (Pro-4) and the OKM Rover C (EM) were working
fine yesterday behind the Holiday Inn, at Cocoa Beach, Florida."
Dell, please, can you share with us; what have you founded yesterday?

[Mike(Mont)]

EW J I agree with your post about finding a unit that doesn't require a learning curve and some sort of personal involvement. Sorry, but at least for now this is a fairy tale. Even an electronic-receiver locator requires quite a bit of practice to be able to interpret what the equipment is telling you. Not much different than a metal detector. Sure it will beep if you wave a piece of gold in front of it, but finding a gold item in the ground is a whole different story--it may be too deep, the ground might be mineralized, nearby junk metal, electrical interference, on and on. Sure, someday there will be a computer system that can reduce the odds, but then everyone will be able to "clean up".

[Mike(Mont)]

Just to avoid confusion, when I said "Sure it will beep when you wave a piece of gold in front of it" I was refering to a metal detector, not the VR5000.

[Dell Winders]

...WITHOUT INVOLVING HUMAN BODY AND MIND - ONLY ELECTRONIC.

Sorry, I can't help you. Every conventional detector that I have ever used involves the use of the human body & mind to some extent. The learning curve for correct usage and accurate interpretation is greater in some detection methods than it is in others, but there is no single detector, or locator that does everything. They are just an aid, no single detector that I have ever used would fill your requirment.

We are all suckers for the high tech electronic automation that promises to make Treasure finding easy for anyone. Just turn on the power switch, dig at the sound of the beep and get rich.

Unfortunately, it's not that easy. In my experience, every treasure detector I have ever used in the past 40 years as a Professional Treasure hunter/salvor has only been as effecient as the knowledge, experience, and luck of the operator. So, if you aren't willing to devote the money, and necessary time to learning, and become experienced and profecient in the use of the tools presently avaialble for detecting deep targets, there's no need to even talk about it.

There is no meta-physical ability necessary to get a reaction to the "field" of a buried anomaly, or an electronic harmonic frequency response with a pair of bent Rods, or a directional locator. Ignorance of the physics of Earth science appears to be contagious on this forum.

You can't knock science. It's way ahead of the limited knowledge and understanding of the egotistical techs and engineers posting on this forum. The technology for computerized, long range, deep target detection has been around for at least 2 decades. I have witnessed some of this earlier technology used in the field. Now days, it will take half $million$ just to open the scientific technology door for you.

"My Remote Sensing Frequency Discriminator (Pro-4) and the OKM Rover C (EM) were working
fine yesterday behind the Holiday Inn, at Cocoa Beach, Florida."
Dell, please, can you share with us; what have you founded yesterday?

A couple of weeks ago I announced on TNET that I had mentally located some Iron cannon buried about 20 feet deep behind the Cocoa Beach, Florida, Holiday Inn, where 'Pegleg's Treasure Hunters Expo was held July 28-29th.

I was hoping that some of the Pro Treasure hunters would independently check the location with magnetometer, or any other scientificly accepted methods that would detect, or image deep buried ferrous anomalies under those conditions.

I used the Frequency Discriminator to locate the specific Iron anomalies I had plotted on an aerial photo as being cannon, and marked the locations with plastic stakes.

Only one person brought equipment that might go deep enough to deny, or confirm the locations. It was an OKM Rover-C deluxe (EM). The whole process of locating the targets and imaging with the Rover-C only took 30 minutes, and then it started to rain.

The operator of the Rover -C has had very little experience in using it, or interpreting the software. But, he did manage to image an anomaly at the staked location that is probably a Cannon, identifiable by the shape of the image. A nearby image showed straight lines which if interpreted correctly may indicate part of a man made structure?

I was told there are plans to have the location checked with a magnetometer to attempt a third method of confirming the presence of a ferrous anomaly at that depth. I have no concern about the results. I have tested the Frequency Discriminator several times on deep buried IRON anomalies that have been confirmed independently with a Geometrics proton Magnetometer, and ground truthing.

The real proof will be in ground truthing the location. That may, or may not ever happen. If an Iron cannopn is recovered at this location, I'm sure you will read about it in the news.

I'm weary of wasting my time trying to answer questions for dis-respectful, and ungrateful people on this forum.

Maybe later! Dell

[Mike(Mont)]

Dell, you just made the best LRL in history!!!!

[Dell Winders]

Mike, Are you referring to the X-Scan & Directional locator, or the mental locating?

Because, the Pro-4 is basically just a simple Frequency Generator, that performs equally well as the advertised technologically advanced $20,000 LRL's on the market. Dell

[J_Player]

DUH! If I was not the inventor, I certainly would not claim I was the inventor, or manufacturer of VR-detectors, or even LRL's.

I have posted for years letting people know that I am not the inventor. Folks here continue to confuse and believe their own assumptions as being truth and fact.Dell, I made no assumptions. I found information you put on your website that says you are the creator of the Omnitron: "We are the creators of OMNITRON..." And I look at a picture of one of your Omnitrons that you are now saying you are not the inventor. Why is the "Dell Systems Omnitron" shown as a V.R. 800 if you did not invent any of the VR detectors?

We know you do not lie, so the explanation must lie elsewhere. Did you make an error when you placed the statement on your website saying you are the creator of the Omnitron? Did your statement "We are the creators of OMNITRON..." mean that "Vernell and me" are the creators of the Omnitron in the picture below? Did Vernell illegally use your Dell Systems trademark to sell his VR 800 model as an Omnitron? When we look at this photo of the Dell systems Omnitron, are we looking an an Omnitron, or is it a Vernell Electronics locator? No disrespect intended, no assumptions being made here, Just asking and trying to understand your confusing explanation.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

I have no idea what difference a name makes at this point and time, or what trickery you or Carl, are trying to lead up to now.

I created "Omnitron" as a marketing name in 1986 when I introduced the "Noah" model. Shortly afterward "Omnitron'' became a public generic name for at least 5 manufacturers that jumped on the band wagon within 3 months of it's introduction. I had no control.

It's a long involved story of greedy people, lies and deception, but Vernon Rose, (Vernell) did not start manufacturing FD's until 18 months later, which I also introduced to the market at competetive pricing to stop a profiteering monopoly that was taking place.

Later, I assume to please me, and without my knowledge, Vernon had a batch of face plates printed with the "Omnitron", and "Dell" name on them. At least a dozen other manufacturers were calling their product an "Omnitron" or "Omini" some thing by that time, and one had applied for a copyright patent and received it against all my protest. So, it didn't really matter if Vernon Rose added the "Omnitron" name to his products for whatever reason, and I didn't have the heart to ask him not to use the face plates after he had already gone to the expense of having them made.

I added the name "Dell Systems" to "Omnitron" to make the distinction between other manufacturers "Omnitron" and my own.

I do not legally own the copyright patent for the name "Omnitron" or "Dell Systems" but I did obtain verbal permission to use the latter, not that it means anything.

This information has nothing to do with your ability, or interest, to build an LRL, and I am weary of wasting my time answering questions that are none of your business.

Don't expect, ask, or demand, that I answer any more irrevelant questions. I have no interest in the stupid intellectual mind games that Carl, and followers play against LRL users, on this forum.

it's 4 A.M. I've contributed more than my time allows. So, what's next? Dell

[J_Player]

Hi Dell,

Actually it's a fascinating story. We don't need to know the tabloid details, but it is quite an accomplishment to be an innovator who others tried to copy. When there is money involved, we often hear stories of deciet, and the innovator often is taken advantage of.

Because you finally gave a comprehensible explanation, we now can understand that the nonsense Vernell electronics Carl complains about is not yours. You have cleared up the confusion of who manufactured the circuitry that serves only to drain a battery.

Congratulations for the pioneer work in your field where you led a trail of hungry followers! :thumb:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Mike(Mont)]

RE post 46:

My apologies, Dell. The post was supposed to read "the best LRL post in history" but I do like the X-Scan.

[Max]

I have no idea what difference a name makes at this point and time, or what trickery you or Carl, are trying to lead up to now.

I created "Omnitron" as a marketing name in 1986 when I introduced the "Noah" model. Shortly afterward "Omnitron'' became a public generic name for at least 5 manufacturers that jumped on the band wagon within 3 months of it's introduction. I had no control.

It's a long involved story of greedy people, lies and deception, but Vernon Rose, (Vernell) did not start manufacturing FD's until 18 months later, which I also introduced to the market at competetive pricing to stop a profiteering monopoly that was taking place.

Later, I assume to please me, and without my knowledge, Vernon had a batch of face plates printed with the "Omnitron", and "Dell" name on them. At least a dozen other manufacturers were calling their product an "Omnitron" or "Omini" some thing by that time, and one had applied for a copyright patent and received it against all my protest. So, it didn't really matter if Vernon Rose added the "Omnitron" name to his products for whatever reason, and I didn't have the heart to ask him not to use the face plates after he had already gone to the expense of having them made.

I added the name "Dell Systems" to "Omnitron" to make the distinction between other manufacturers "Omnitron" and my own.

I do not legally own the copyright patent for the name "Omnitron" or "Dell Systems" but I did obtain verbal permission to use the latter, not that it means anything.

This information has nothing to do with your ability, or interest, to build an LRL, and I am weary of wasting my time answering questions that are none of your business.

Don't expect, ask, or demand, that I answer any more irrevelant questions. I have no interest in the stupid intellectual mind games that Carl, and followers play against LRL users, on this forum.

it's 4 A.M. I've contributed more than my time allows. So, what's next? Dell

Hi Dell,
nice to see you recover well. Even if our ideas go in opposite directions I appreciate that you still post yours here.

About LRLs... well, I'm always on the other side... trying to mess with VLFs as always... going to get some few cms more... not miles, but that's fine for me! :rolleyes:

All the best,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

This information has nothing to do with your ability, or interest, to build an LRL, and I am weary of wasting my time answering questions that are none of your business.

Don't expect, ask, or demand, that I answer any more irrevelant questions. I have no interest in the stupid intellectual mind games that Carl, and followers play against LRL users, on this forum.

it's 4 A.M. I've contributed more than my time allows. So, what's next? Dell

It seems to me that you have more than a passing interest in the "stupid intellectual mind games" that are played on this forum. :frown:
One can only wonder at the sheer masochism of such a pursuit. :rolleyes:
At least your occassional rants are slightly entertaining.

[J_Player]

Hi Dell,
I have no idea what difference a name makes at this point and time, or what trickery you or Carl, are trying to lead up to now....

...I am weary of wasting my time answering questions that are none of your business.While you may be convinced that everyone who disagrees with you is Carl's follower, I might ask you to take a closer look. I have a lot of respect and admiration for Carl's achievements in electronics. It is obvious he is a distinguished engineer in his field. But if you check some of my posts in this forum, you will find I have proven he sometimes don't know what he's talking about. I doubt anyone in this forum automatically agrees with Carl or anyone else. We all have our own ideas, and we give credit to people when they impress us by showing us something we think is valuable and worthwhile.

I can tell you what difference a name makes at this point in time:
We are long past the time of the mad rush to be the first on the market with the Omnitron name. So perhaps from your perspective it makes no difference. But there is a great deal of historical value in knowing the facts. Not all of us were here to read all the forums where you previously told parts of this story. We are relative newbies who only know what we see posted here. When we read that you are manufacturing nonsense circuitry, and our most diligent efforts to understand tell us it is true, then we end up believing it whether it is true or not. Can you blame us when you help to obscure the facts, and leave us only to believe what we read on your website and what we read here?

Apparently Carl did not know these facts either, or he would not be thinking those "omnitron things" Vernell made were yours. I'm sure there's lots more to the story, and I'm not interested to know about it. The important fact is that you don't have anything to do with the embarassing solenoid battery discharger crap sold as a frequency generator.

What most people don't know is that you were the first innovator who created the methods we read about on your website. Others were followers who didn't have much of a clue until they studied what you were doing. While many of us may disagree with your concepts of science, none of us can deny that you were a leader in your field. Not just another yahoo that jumped on the bandwagon.

The difference the name makes is a matter of history. What you told us about the Omnitron name and the history of those times will now be understood by the rest of us who read it the first time in this forum. So now we can see you as a person who is not just making up BS, but a leader in your industry who was trying to keep a level palying field for your clientele. The difference it makes is this is the real history of the treasure-hunting. Perhaps 500 years from now archaeologists will be digging up buried hard disks and find this forum post, so they too can know the history of the who's who of treasure hunting.

It's none of our business? I think it is. As long as you are selling products named "Omnitron", we have a right to know what we are buying (at least we know it's not more of Vernell's BS).

Best wishes,
J_P

[michael]

... I created "Omnitron" as a marketing name in 1986 when I introduced the "Noah" model. Shortly afterward "Omnitron'' became a public generic name for at least 5 manufacturers that jumped on the band wagon within 3 months of it's introduction. I had no control....At least a dozen other manufacturers were calling their product an "Omnitron" or "Omini" Hi dear DELL, what a nice I see you've recuperated. really from deep heart I prayed for your health.
one incidence was here: http://www.detektor.cz/index.php
a czech site which was advertising omnitrin DTR as a best LRL for a while. and now isn't there.
can you share with us; what have you founded yesterday?I've written before in this forum (although aroused some people to oppose seriously and accused me of Dell functionary, but I'm honest, love truth, no reason to misguide you, cos it never makes money for me) ; I knew some guys from far in my country who could found 6 good treasures(not single coins as we don't name a coin or even a bunch of gold treasure) by Omnitron + PI or Future 2005.
they gradually disappeared for some situations. sometime ago I heard from a friend who was near to them that the deepest treasure they found was at 11 meters depth. in their team one was proficient with omnitron, one with Future 2005 and PI.
they became so much rich ,some went to Spain and became resident there.
I knew one expert antiquarian who was looking for omnitron Noah, he emphasized for Noah as he had seen it's work and really believed in it.
and furthermore Omnitrone is however famous that many of cheaters who get money to search an area in respond to you tell that their device is omnitron. I've seen one of them ; it was a homemade device and a neat handwriting "Omnitron" on the fake box.
Dell I congratulate you for your right devices you granted to serious questers and trackers,but sorry for such sabotages in dirty business world.

[Max]

Hi dear DELL, what a nice I see you've recuperated. really from deep heart I prayed for your health.
one incidence was here: http://www.detektor.cz/index.php
a czech site which was advertising omnitrin DTR as a best LRL for a while. and now isn't there.
I've written before in this forum (although aroused some people to oppose seriously and accused me of Dell functionary, but I'm honest, love truth, no reason to misguide you, cos it never makes money for me) ; I knew some guys from far in my country who could found 6 good treasures(not single coins as we don't name a coin or even a bunch of gold treasure) by Omnitron + PI or Future 2005.
they gradually disappeared for some situations. sometime ago I heard from a friend who was near to them that the deepest treasure they found was at 11 meters depth. in their team one was proficient with omnitron, one with Future 2005 and PI.
they became so much rich ,some went to Spain and became resident there.
I knew one expert antiquarian who was looking for omnitron Noah, he emphasized for Noah as he had seen it's work and really believed in it.
and furthermore Omnitrone is however famous that many of cheaters who get money to search an area in respond to you tell that their device is omnitron. I've seen one of them ; it was a homemade device and a neat handwriting "Omnitron" on the fake box.
Dell I congratulate you for your right devices you granted to serious questers and trackers,but sorry for such sabotages in dirty business world.

Hi Michael,
do you know if the parabolic reflector holds a Gunn-diode ???
I've seen somewhere a thing like this... but can't remember now where !:rolleyes:
But I'm sure it was not a treasure finder machine...

Best regards,
Max

[Dell Winders]

I don't have the time to waste answering point by point, but when Carl, you are any skeptic pretending to be a scientist, or scientific, with superior knowledge over us peons and egotistically use your formal training to belittle and condemn the truth and facts without doing extensive field research and investigation, you are the ones spouting the BS Crap.

For 14 years the Skeptic agenda has been to disprove everything I have learned through tens of thousands of experiments, DB tests, and field usage to learn the facts and know what is true & what is fiction about Remote Sensing Frequency Discrimination.

Carl, and other Scientific pretenders have turned this forum into a mockery of true Science. You folks seem to believe you have this uncanny ability to just look at a photograph of a so called LRL, and authoritatively declare it to be a fraud, bogus, or a scam. That's pseudo Scientific BS crap based on assumption, not fact, for which I have no respect for the Scientific credibility of such authors, no matter how many electronic engineering you may hold.

Apparently Carl did not know these facts either, or he would not be thinking those "omnitron things" Vernell made were yours. I'm sure there's lots more to the story, and I'm not interested to know about it. The important fact is that you don't have anything to do with the embarrassing solenoid battery discharger crap sold as a frequency generator.


I am aware that the Vernell circuits were poorly constructed and hot glued.

The question is, did you, or Carl, practice using the Rods according to my instructions, and conduct proper field tests to know if Vernell FG's worked according to my advertising claims?

Second, I would like to see yours, or Carl's , Scientific reports that show that the use of Copper & Brass in the Antenna Rods, or even chemical elements of the human body, has no relation whatsoever to the physics of Earth Science?

These things are sadly scientifically lacking in Carl's biased, opinionated, presumptive reports on LRL devices & Dowsing.

It's beyond my hillbilly comprehension to understand why the intelligent, educated, intellectuals on this forum cannot accept, or comprehend the fact that what I speak of, and what you are in closed minded denial of, has been done with small and great successes for at least 25 years.

Every time I read some of the posts here, and especially Carl's so called reports, I remember what one Physicist who owned my products said when I was envious of his knowledge & education. He said it was all well & good and provided a good income, but he had worked with colleagues with no practical field experience who were "Intellectual Idiots".

He suggested the instruments might work on "light wave particles". Possibly, LWP could be involved just as many other physics may be involved, but in my opinion, only in a minor way.

Come on people, stop pretending to be Scientific. Do your field testing, experiments & research before you keep jumping to conclusions based on egotism, assumption, or the intentional skeptic agenda to spread dis-information.

"WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE, CAN ONLY BE DONE WITH AN OPEN MIND" Dell

[Nihil Roma Maius]

Come on people, stop pretending to be Scientific. Do your field testing, experiments & research before you keep jumping to conclusions based on egotism, assumption, or the intentional skeptic agenda to spread dis-information.

Dell, welcome, nice to read your posts. You're a genuine person who put your face for your devices. I feel you're honest person.

Dell, is true! The most of the skeptics or opinants emits judgement based on prejudices. Don't work in real field, pontificate sitting in a chair and in front the screen of the computer. Most of them are bad and malicious, but pretend knowledge and info for nothing at view of all the world. Imagine a decent device, you post schematics, adjustment and other tips... Chinese copy this and sell for only US$ 50!!!!:nono:

[Max]

Come on people, stop pretending to be Scientific. Do your field testing, experiments & research before you keep jumping to conclusions based on egotism, assumption, or the intentional skeptic agenda to spread dis-information.

Dell, welcome, nice to read your posts. You're a genuine person who put your face for your devices. I feel you're honest person.

Dell, is true! The most of the skeptics or opinants emits judgement based on prejudices. Don't work in real field, pontificate sitting in a chair and in front the screen of the computer. Most of them are bad and malicious, but pretend knowledge and info for nothing at view of all the world. Imagine a decent device, you post schematics, adjustment and other tips... Chinese copy this and sell for only US$ 50!!!!:nono:

Hi,
ehm maybe you're not informed... BUT
Chinese already manifacture them! :lol: And sell them too!
Nice people. ;)

So no need to post crappy schematics anymore !? COOL!

Kind regards,
Max

[Nihil Roma Maius]

Yes, I found many crappy MD schematics here, problem and problem, few can solve... so... there are "experts" for all! :lol:

So, we are equal in... crappies!!! :lol:

Men against possibility (FACT!!!!) of electronic LRL are in cavern era.

Remember: the Earth was square, later geoid or in popular language round.

"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; and Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

Arthur Schopenhauer

COOL!!!:cool: :cool: :cool:

[Max]

Yes, I found many crappy MD schematics here, problem and problem, few can solve... so... there are "experts" for all! :lol:

So, we are equal in... crappies!!! :lol:

Men against possibility (FACT!!!!) of electronic LRL are in cavern era.

Remember: the Earth was square, later geoid or in popular language round.

"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; and Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

Arthur Schopenhauer


COOL!!!:cool: :cool: :cool:


Hi,
thus spoke Zarathustra !

So are you writing a novel too ???
Seems that this forum is of inspiration for novelist wannabies! :lol:

"Men against possibility (FACT!!!!) of electronic LRL are in cavern era."
uhm yeah you are the illuminado here! :rolleyes:

Have I consider "electronic LRL" pesudo-science or ultra-science ?
:drool:

Kind regards,
Max

[michael]

Hi Michael,
do you know if the parabolic reflector holds a Gunn-diode ???
I've seen somewhere a thing like this... but can't remember now where !:rolleyes:
But I'm sure it was not a treasure finder machine...Hi Max,
I just tried to confirm Dell comments. he is right about other firms which took advantage from Omnitron reputation. this one was in Czech and you see in words it was being referred to USA or Amerika.

About LRLing no doubt it works but it depends on operator wills, interests and much more to his perseverance. if you tell one device works nothing you will get nothing or something near it.
About what you saw from device with parabolic probe (like the picture) I have no comment, but anyway know Dell devices work. Regards, Michael.

[Nihil Roma Maius]

Have I consider "electronic LRL" pesudo-science or ultra-science ?

pesudo or pseudo?

No, you mix electronic LRL concept with LRL rods concept, you are equal than many others in bad information regarding this.

FrancoItaly is right! And yes, you'll be very imaginative as a novelist!

No, I'm not a Illuminado (Illuminato?), but I want to show a few light.:)

Maybe the model or design is different but some devices by independent experimenters works great! Looks different but also works! Awake!!! If you can modificate a car, also you can modificate a discriminative 20 Khz MD for medium range! Look::D

[Max]

Have I consider "electronic LRL" pesudo-science or ultra-science ?

pesudo or pseudo?

No, you mix electronic LRL concept with LRL rods concept, you are equal than many others in bad information regarding this.

FrancoItaly is right! And yes, you'll be very imaginative as a novelist!

No, I'm not a Illuminado (Illuminato?), but I want to show a few light.:)

Maybe the model or design is different but some devices by independent experimenters works great! Looks different but also works! Awake!!! If you can modificate a car, also you can modificate a discriminative 20 Khz MD for medium range! Look::D

Hi,
well, you're right about the typo... not pesudo but pseudo-! :rolleyes: Damn keyboard!

" And yes, you'll be very imaginative as a novelist! " ehm well not at same level of other people here... :razz:

"Illuminado" ! Never heard of cospiracy theories ??? Illuminados ???
(a kind of secret massonic lodge that governs the World !)
But yeah, the texual meaning is something like you wrote... someone that see the light! (like in the BluesBrothers :rolleyes: )

"Maybe the model or design is different but some devices by independent experimenters works great! Looks different but also works! Awake!!! If you can modificate a car, also you can modificate a discriminative 20 Khz MD for medium range! Look:"

Oh yeah, right... but it's mechanics... not the same thing as detecting a coin 1 mile away! :lol:
Awake ??? What do you mean for medium range ??? 1 MILE ???
Have to drink some more coffe.

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Hi Dell,

Today is your lucky day!
I am reading your post where you want to see some real scientific field testing on the Vernell manufactured circuitry. Finally there is someone willing to make a real field test instead of using photographs to determine if Vernell's instruments work. You see, I have conducted field tests for a number of electronic instruments in the past 2 decades for manufacturers. Normally I charge a hefty fee for this service that only the larger manufacturers can afford. But, because of your complaints of biased reports in this forum, I am willing to waive my fees to help you prove the instruments Vernell manufactures really work for locating treasures. If you recall what you said:

For 14 years the Skeptic agenda has been to disprove everything I have learned through tens of thousands of experiments, DB tests, and field usage to learn the facts and know what is true & what is fiction about Remote Sensing Frequency Discrimination.

Carl, and other Scientific pretenders have turned this forum into a mockery of true Science. You folks seem to believe you have this uncanny ability to just look at a photograph of a so called LRL, and authoritatively declare it to be a fraud, bogus, or a scam. That's pseudo Scientific BS crap based on assumption, not fact, for which I have no respect for the Scientific credibility of such authors, no matter how many electronic engineering you may hold.

The question is, did you, or Carl, practice using the Rods according to my instructions, and conduct proper field tests to know if Vernell FG's worked according to my advertising claims?

...These things are sadly scientifically lacking in Carl's biased, opinionated, presumptive reports on LRL devices & Dowsing.

Come on people, stop pretending to be Scientific. Do your field testing, experiments & research before you keep jumping to conclusions based on egotism, assumption, or the intentional skeptic agenda to spread dis-information.
Ok Dell, no more need for anyone to jump to any conlcusions. I am ready to conduct real field tests using real science instead of biased assumptions. Instead of using Carl's methods, we will use your methods to find out what these LRLs can really do. So let's start the field testing:

Test details:
First, we need to know the exact procedure you want me and my testing technicians to follow when testing the Vernell manufactured device. I don't want any chance that we use the wrong test methods in these field tests, so I will let you specify the "proper field tests" that you want to see. When I say "exact procedure", I mean specific instructions, so none of the technicians will be asking questions like "what setting should I set these knobs to? or Should I test it any time of the day? or How far should I continue walking to find a reading?, or What kind of a response am I looking for? a needle movement or a change in sound, or what?". Publish your exact procedure here in the forum, so we all can know exactly how these tests will be conducted.

When I see the test procedure you post here, then I will email you with shipping instructions so you know where to send the Vernell manufactured LRL for testing. I will be happy to test this LRL free of charge for a period of time up to 3 months according to your test instructions. When the testing is complete I will ship the LRL device back to you. I will then publish the results of the testing in the same format that we deliver for other clients. I will also put up a web page with the results posted in a professional manner that you can use as a reference to forums and as an advertising tool to help sell the product we tested.

Because I am not affiliated with any of the skeptics in this forum, nobody will have any influence in how these tests are conducted except you. Only you can specify the proper field tests to be done. If Carl wants me to open the LRL and photograph it, too bad! I won't do it unless you tell me to do it here in this forum where you post your test procedures.

I would like to see one of the Vernell LRLs work to locate a treasure. I suppose You are the most qualified person to show how to accomplish this. So I will be waiting to see your test procedure before I send you the shipping instructions.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Nihil Roma Maius]

ehm well not at same level of other people here... :razz:

Yes, there are people of good level here in the forum, but no you.


"Illuminado" ! Never heard of cospiracy theories ??? Illuminados ???
(a kind of secret massonic lodge that governs the World !) and bla bla bla

Because there are also Illuminato. Please, I'm not ignorant. Do you're playing with secret societies (remember your post where you said "I'm don't like The DaVinci Code" or similar)? Now... secret society! You love this! Do you're also a magician? Do you are a fortune-teller? Maybe you're masonic and you believe you're the owner of the truth...:rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Oh yeah, right... but it's mechanics... not the same thing as detecting a coin 1 mile away! :lol:
Awake ??? What do you mean for medium range ??? 1 MILE ???
Have to drink some more coffe.

You're confused!

You need more than coffe, you need Memorex 1,000 or similar :lol: :lol:

(But this only cure the bad memory, no other faults.) :lol:

[Max]

ehm well not at same level of other people here... :razz:

Yes, there are people of good level here in the forum, but no you.


"Illuminado" ! Never heard of cospiracy theories ??? Illuminados ???
(a kind of secret massonic lodge that governs the World !) and bla bla bla

Because there are also Illuminato. Please, I'm not ignorant. Do you're playing with secret societies (remember your post where you said "I'm don't like The DaVinci Code" or similar)? Now... secret society! You love this! Do you're also a magician? Do you are a fortune-teller? Maybe you're masonic and you believe you're the owner of the truth...:rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Oh yeah, right... but it's mechanics... not the same thing as detecting a coin 1 mile away! :lol:
Awake ??? What do you mean for medium range ??? 1 MILE ???
Have to drink some more coffe.

You're confused!

You need more than coffe, you need Memorex 1,000 or similar :lol: :lol:

(But this only cure the bad memory, no other faults.) :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: You make me laugh.

Have no one good idea, have no good to offer here, just stupid claims of ridiculos gizmo-devices.

My memory is ok, it's your mineoro that will never work and find a coin.

So drop it in WC. :razz:

Kind regards,
Max

[Nihil Roma Maius]

Mineoro and me? :lol: Nothing to do. Somebody wash your brain with dirty water!

[Max]

Mineoro and me? :lol: Nothing to do. Somebody wash your brain with dirty water!

Hi,

"Somebody wash your brain with dirty water!"

Is this another insult ???

JUSTICE COME! :lol: :lol: :lol:

YOU MAKE ME LAUGH...

MAYBE YOU HAVEN'T EVEN DIRTY WATER TO WASH YOURS???

Yes, MINEORO, aren't you a supporter ??? Aren't you witness ???
Aren't you support spark-gaps here ?
Detection of coins from 25 meters away ?
That you see people detecting metals from 600-700 meters away ???

AREN'T YOU!


C'MON ... GIVE US THE PROOFS IF YOU ARE SO SURE OF THIS "SCIENCE".
I'M AWAITING !

C'MON , PLEASE RESPOND!

C'MON, YOUR LRL WORKS OR NOT ???

WIN THE CHALLENGE AND I'LL DO WHAT I SAID.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

YOU ARE A CLOWN! :razz: