Ultra Science For Detection

[sharky]

Detection of metals by Ultra Science in India by Gurus is done by remote sensing , asking 4th dimension gods, or by applying some eye cream one can find hidden treasures, yakshinis also reveal hidden treasures. However eye cream is easy. These topics are very huge.

[Seden]

A more common method is to simply learn how to use a pendulem (easier said than done). All's a pendulem,dowsing rod, scrying mirror,etc do is read what the right hemiphere of the brain is sensing which far as science is concerned is subjective and unreliable,hence Carl's offering a large sum to anyone who can prove that it works.

Randy

[Max]

Detection of metals by Ultra Science in India by Gurus is done by remote sensing , asking 4th dimension gods, or by applying some eye cream one can find hidden treasures, yakshinis also reveal hidden treasures. However eye cream is easy. These topics are very huge.

Hi sharky,
ULTRA SCIENCE ??? WHAT'S ULTRA SCIENCE ???

I only know about science... sorry for limitation here.:rolleyes:

The 4th dimension ??? The eye cream ???

Ehm have you watched "Supernatural" last evening... ? :razz:

TV is the evil... :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[Carl-NC]

Gotta get me one of them Gurus...

[Elie]

Gotta get me one of them Gurus...
Fo' shizzle!

[Qiaozhi]

New LRL Product:

[Carl-NC]

:???: I had to look up "faff".

I think a guru with a lemon-fresh scent is wise.:p

[Geophyz]

WOW! Great endorsement from Carl. Now I got to get me one of those Gurus also! :razz:

[Clondike Clad]

Now what in the SAM is Ultra Science .If it will help find a coin a mile a way.
I want to learn the art of Ultra Science :lol:

[Qiaozhi]

:???: I had to look up "faff".

I think a guru with a lemon-fresh scent is wise.:p
Oh yeh. :rolleyes: I forgot about you foreigners. :D
It's a strange English expression. See here ->
http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/phrasal-verbs/faff+about.html

[J_Player]

So now we need a notch filter?

[Carl-NC]

JP, I think your science scale should be circular. That is, the UltraScience end wraps around and connects to the PseudoScience end.

[Elie]

The Amazing Randi will pay you $1,000,000 for a real, working guru. Carl, cheapskate that he is, will only pay you $25,000.

[Max]

Guess who win...:lol:

"
The Guru, The Rabbi, And The Lawyer
A guru, rabbi, and lawyer were all traveling to a rather far-off destination. It was quickly approaching full dark and they had yet to find a place to stay for that night. They finally spotted a farmhouse a slight distance away. Beside the farmhouse was a rather large barn. Walking over to the farmhouse, they knocked on the door and asked the farmer if they could room there overnight.

?Sure,? the farmer replied. ?But I only can put two of you up in the house. One of you will have to sleep in the barn.?

?I?ll go sleep in the barn,? the rabbi said genially, and so off he went while the other two followed the farmer inside. Ten minutes passed, and the farmer heard a knock on his door. He opened the door to see the rabbi standing there.

?I can?t sleep in your barn,? the rabbi stated flatly. ?You have a pig in your barn, and I just can?t sleep under the same roof as a pig.? The guru then volunteered to go sleep in the barn. Ten more minutes passed, and the farmer heard another knock on his door. He opened it to find the guru standing on his doorstep.

?I, too, can?t sleep in your barn,? the guru told him. ?You have a cow in your barn, and I can?t sleep under the same roof as a cow.? The farmer looked rather puzzled.

?I?ll go sleep in the barn then,? the lawyer stated cheerfully. The farmer, relieved at the lawyer?s cheerful attitude, closed the door, thinking the problem solved. Ten minutes later however, there was yet another knock on the door. The farmer sighed and opened the door--and found his pig and cow on the doorstep..."

Best regards,
Max

[J_Player]

It can't be PseudoScience... It has less junk and lower price. Could it be UltraScience?

What's lighter than an empty matchbox, requires no batteries, finds only gold?
A dowsing rod? No...
Pendelum? No...

It's the all new and improved RangerTell Examiner Magneto!!

Yes RangerTell has just released their latest examiner Magneto model. This new model is user-friendly, unimaginably light and addictive. And only $399 USD!!

This is an amazing $400 less than the old examiner! How did they do it?
The new examiner magneto model is able to target the gold without the expensive calculator, batteries, or power circuit of the old examiner. And the astonishing results: It finds only gold. Well, it won't find micro-gold, but a small price to pay for finding only large gold items from 10 feet to one mile. This new examiner magneto was designed for the Australian gold fields, but will work anywhere in the world. But that's not all... The $399 USD includes free shipping anywhere in the world!

Check it out here: http://www.rangertell.com/Gold_Speciific.htm


Now, is this UltraScience, or what?

J_P

[Clondike Clad]

So now we need a notch filter?
NOW I KNOW>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>:razz:
I will design the notch filter............................................ ..............:lol:

[Max]

This lemon-scented guru serves nothing...

[Max]

and this too... but at least can repair your car! :D

[J_Player]

JP, I think your science scale should be circular. That is, the UltraScience end wraps around and connects to the PseudoScience end.

Interesting idea. I wonder .....

[Rudy]

Give the strip a haf twist before joining the ends together. You'll get an interesting topological object.:D

[J_Player]

A half twist could ignite an argument about who get's innies and who gets outies, even though there is no inside or outside. :razz:

[Max]

Möbius band of nonsense

[Clondike Clad]

http://www.rangertell.com/tales10.htm Can anyone tell me what is going on.:| I am lost in space on this one.

[J_Player]

(http://www.rangertell.com/tales10.htm)http://www.rangertell.com/tales10.htm Can anyone tell me what is going on.:| I am lost in space on this one.
Hahahahahhahaaaaa pretty funny, Clondike Clad. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Ooops, excuse me. This is a tale where somebody is trying to demonstrate that when you hang a Ranger Tell from a twisted rubber band, it spins slower if there is gold nearby. He says this reveals the electromagnetic field slows down the Ranger Tell from unwinding. From this demonstration, he goes on to conclude that you need to hold the Ranger Tell in order to connect the loop from the Ranger Tell to the ground. He emphasizes there is no mental energy involved. The circulatory system creates a current and thus a field (right-hand rule)... :nerd:

Kinda makes me wonder if the calculator exerts all the mental energy. Dang, I'm not sure if this is PseudoScience or UltraScience.. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Max]

[url="http://www.rangertell.com/tales10.htm"]
Hahahahahhahaaaaa pretty funny, Clondike Clad. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Ooops, excuse me. This is a tale where somebody is trying to demonstrate that when you hang a Ranger Tell from a twisted rubber band, it spins slower if there is gold nearby. He says this reveals the electromagnetic field slows down the Ranger Tell from unwinding. From this demonstration, he goes on to conclude that you need to hold the Ranger Tell in order to connect the loop from the Ranger Tell to the ground. He emphasizes there is no mental energy involved. The circulatory system creates a current and thus a field (right-hand rule)... :nerd:

Kinda makes me wonder if the calculator exerts all the mental energy. Dang, I'm not sure if this is PseudoScience or UltraScience.. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

"The circulatory system creates a current and thus a field (right-hand rule)..."

Interesting stuff... but my question is: and if the end-user has a pace-maker there...??? :lol:
Maybe this stuff have already killed someone! :razz:
What about compensation ??? Oh , yeah there's always the treasure...:rolleyes:

Best regards,
Max

[Clondike Clad]

Ok gold ions but what kind of signal the rocks give off.
My wife have a rock big as new york but is it giving off ions or what.
I would love to detect the rocks over gold or silver.:D
How do i detect her rock...and it is not a CZ

[J_Player]

Ranger Tell has done it again! More cutting edge UltraScience ...

Yup, the all-new RangerTell Fieldmaster, and they're sellin' em for only $699 AUS dollars, or $599 USD! How can they do it? They removed the calculator, thus saving you the expense of the highest cost component, and of the need to program it.

Read this other forum's news item they posted when they discovered this amazing new UltraScience Fieldmaster: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ProspectinginOz/message/4598

What will them dang UstraScientists figger out next?

[Max]

Ranger Tell has done it again! More cutting edge UltraScience ...

Yup, the all-new RangerTell Fieldmaster, and they're sellin' em for only $699 AUS dollars, or $599 USD! How can they do it? They removed the calculator, thus saving you the expense of the highest cost component, and of the need to program it.

Read this other forum's news item they posted when they discovered this amazing new UltraScience Fieldmaster: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ProspectinginOz/message/4598

What will them dang UstraScientists figger out next?

Hi,
for me it's just another LRL-gizmo as all the others...
Also the star-trek shape makes me thinking that some people must leave detection business and enforcing science-fiction industry.

The slogan for this LRL section could be : " No crappy, no party! "

Kind regards,
Max

[Nihil Roma Maius]

Max

Also here!

[Max]

Max

Also here!


Hi,
yes why not ???

It's another crappy-LRL or not ???

PLEASE RESPOND ???
COULD FIND GOLD IONS ???
COULD FIND COINS ?
COULD FIND TREASURES ???

C'MON


Aren't you support spark-gaps theories in LRL here ?
That a CAR is like a METAL DETECTOR !?
That you can detect coins from 25 meters away ?
That you see people detecting metals from 600-700 meters away ???
That you are witness of that LRLs work detecting metals from 600-700 meters away ???

AREN'T YOU!?

READ YOUR POSTS, OR CALL ESTEBAN TO GIVE YOU SOME HELP!
YOU NEED IT.
YOU ARE LOST IN SPACE NOW!

MY FACTS COMPLETELY BREAKED ALL YOUR RESIDUAL CREDIT HERE! :lol: :lol: :lol:

C'MON ... GIVE US THE PROOFS IF YOU ARE SO SURE OF THIS "SCIENCE".
I'M AWAITING !

I'LL EAT AN ENTIRE MINEORO IN FRONT OF CAMERA IF YOU WIN THE CHALLENGE AND GOT THE JACKPOT!

C'MON , PLEASE RESPOND!

C'MON, YOUR LRL WORKS OR NOT ???

WIN THE CHALLENGE AND I'LL DO WHAT I SAID.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Best regards,
Max

[Clondike Clad]

I just don't know what o say about this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Someone please help me.How can this thang work!:shocked:
Nasa better look at this thang.

[Max]

I just don't know what o say about this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Someone please help me.How can this thang work!:shocked:
Nasa better look at this thang.

Hi,
Planet locator ??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now I'm really LOST IN SPACE TOO!

This THANG ? :rolleyes:

I think that is just another LRL (of planets this time!) ! Maybe I'm wrong... ;)

Kind regards,
Max

PS: better if I light another cigar... this require some fog!

[Dell Winders]

This is not an endorsement for Mineoro, but I am still waiting for Carl, to collect the $50,000 Mineoro Challenge by proving the Mineoro, does not work. I wonder why he has become silent about Mineoro, yet didn't hesitate to attack and lie about me for years?

Max, why don't you collect the Mineoro $50,000 Challenge instead of complaining about Mineoro users not taking Carl's $25,000 challenge publicity gimmick?

There appears to be a lot of hypocrisy embedded with ignorance by those who make the pretense of being scientific. Get over the big ego trips.

The egotistical BS rhetoric by pretend Scientists making a mockery of Science is disgusting to me. Do you ever think that the non-scientist who use and have experience with LRL products might have learned, and know something about LRL that you do not?

Try a bit of humility, and offer respect and interest to those less formal educated than yourself. It won't hurt you and you might just learn something about what you don't understand and try to speak authoritatively of while in total ignorance.

Your personal beliefs and opinions are not necessarily related to the already established facts about so called LRL. Your so called facts, derived from, and based on assumption are NOT FACTS.

Please! All of you, join J Player, in serious common sense (critical) thinking about Remote Sensing. study the related Physics of Earth Science, and you will be apologizing (ego permitting) to us lowly uneducated peons for your ignorance, rather than the useless mockery posts you use to show your self perceived intellectual superiority.

Come on folks, stop arguing that you have superior intelligence over us non-intellectuals and just demonstrate it by example. Any idiot can copy what they read, or is posted on the internet. Is there not any original scientific thinking out side the literary box for you, or are you mentally handicapped by it? Dell

[Max]

This is not an endorsement for Mineoro, but I am still waiting for Carl, to collect the $50,000 Mineoro Challenge by proving the Mineoro, does not work. I wonder why he has become silent about Mineoro, yet didn't hesitate to attack and lie about me for years?

Max, why don't you collect the Mineoro $50,000 Challenge instead of complaining about Mineoro users not taking Carl's $25,000 challenge publicity gimmick?

There appears to be a lot of hypocrisy embedded with ignorance by those who make the pretense of being scientific. Get over the big ego trips.

The egotistical BS rhetoric by pretend Scientists making a mockery of Science is disgusting to me. Do you ever think that the non-scientist who use and have experience with LRL products might have learned, and know something about LRL that you do not?

Try a bit of humility, and offer respect and interest to those less formal educated than yourself. It won't hurt you and you might just learn something about what you don't understand and try to speak authoritatively of while in total ignorance.

Your personal beliefs and opinions are not necessarily related to the already established facts about so called LRL. Your so called facts, derived from, and based on assumption are NOT FACTS.

Please! All of you, join J Player, in serious common sense (critical) thinking about Remote Sensing. study the related Physics of Earth Science, and you will be apologizing (ego permitting) to us lowly uneducated peons for your ignorance, rather than the useless mockery posts you use to show your self perceived intellectual superiority.

Come on folks, stop arguing that you have superior intelligence over us non-intellectuals and just demonstrate it by example. Any idiot can copy what they read, or is posted on the internet. Is there not any original scientific thinking out side the literary box for you, or are you mentally handicapped by it? Dell

Hi Dell,
I don't argue I have superior intelligence... over anyone. I'm just skeptic about some claims and about some products... that doesn't mean I don't respect people here or that I think all things around remote locating are fake.

I don't belive that. I agree e.g. on microbic formation of gold ions in soil... and also due to chemicals , as I've explained... and think that oil-companies (I know there are many processes of this kind) use trace elements to find deposits and also in mining (ores). All that is rational, scientific and productive for me... and that's remote locating!

Problems show when someone say that could DETECT A COIN ON SURFACE SOIL FROM METERS AWAY USING A METAL DETECTOR.

That things are impossible. Everyone know here. There is no metal detector that could do such a thing, you must be honest and agree with me on this point.

Also other stuff about sparks, micro or nanovoltmeters proved are totally unuseful in real long-range search, due to noise etc.

"Max, why don't you collect the Mineoro $50,000 Challenge instead of complaining about Mineoro users not taking Carl's $25,000 challenge publicity gimmick?"

The Carl's idea of the LRL-challenge is great, why I have to override his challenge by myself ?
He is an educated mind, a great engineer and knows many more detectors, brands than me !
So I advertise LRL-challenge here cause I think that is the best that a serious LRL manifacturer or seller or even owner could do to demonstrate to all us that LRL really works!

Why not ? Why don't you partecipate if you feel sure of your locating devices?

There's nothing provocatory in my point of view !

But I see that people that talks here about "working LRL" never want to partecipate in the challenge.

So what I have to think ??? If it's so easy to find a treasure with a "working LRL" system why nobody partecipate, win and got the jackpot ???

Ask yourself, my friend.

Kind regards,
Max

[Nihil Roma Maius]

Problems show when someone say that could DETECT A COIN ON SURFACE SOIL FROM METERS AWAY USING A METAL DETECTOR.

That things are impossible. Everyone know here. There is no metal detector that could do such a thing, you must be honest and agree with me on this point.

That things are impossible. Everyone know here

Ah!!! You're shure in terra incognita for you.

Who is everyone?

[Nihil Roma Maius]

Hi Dell

Good and clean text. Thanks!

[Max]

Problems show when someone say that could DETECT A COIN ON SURFACE SOIL FROM METERS AWAY USING A METAL DETECTOR.

That things are impossible. Everyone know here. There is no metal detector that could do such a thing, you must be honest and agree with me on this point.

That things are impossible. Everyone know here

Ah!!! You're shure in terra incognita for you.

Who is everyone?

Hi,
so what's that detector ???

C'mon say the name/brand of it. Or you or someone else realize it in a garage at sunday ???

Be factual. Also me could claim I have a detector that could find a coin from New York that is buried in Los Angeles ! :lol:

Or from the Earth a coin buried on Mars ! :razz: :razz: :razz:

I HAVE A DETECTOR THAT FIND COINS ON MARS SURFACE!
I HAVE PATENTED IT!

Just science-fiction !

Anyone have ever heard of such a detector you claim capable of detecting a coin on surface soil from meters away ???

"That things are impossible. Everyone know here"

Ok , if I'm wrong please give me a example of what you're talking about:
MODEL / BRAND of detector

Or also

Patents ??? Give us the numbers/refs of them!

If the stuff is patented why worring about ???

You claim there are patents of that stuff... so GIVE US !

Or is just another bright idea ??? Claiming also PATENTS now ?

GIVE US FACTS , NOT WORDS. :lol:

UNTILL THAT YOU'LL REMAIN A CLOWN HERE! :razz:

Best regards,
Max

PS: metal detecting is not "terra incognita" (unknown land) for me! :lol:
Maybe for you!

[Dell Winders]

Problems show when someone say that could DETECT A COIN ON SURFACE SOIL FROM METERS AWAY USING A METAL DETECTOR.

That things are impossible. Everyone know here. There is no metal detector that could do such a thing, you must be honest and agree with me on this point.

Max, I am honest, and truthful. I do not speak of anything that I have not experienced personally.
I don't know why I waste my time trying to educate uninterested intellectual idiots the facts and the truth.

Carl, may be your idol but he has well demonstrated over the years that his BS rhetoric and lies are nothing but a gimmick to get attention for himself, and perpetrate the leader of the Skeptic Society's fake agenda and untruths about Dell. On this subject he knows nothing of what he so authoriativey speaks of.

We have the blind leading the blind in an effort to perpetuate a deception and personal agenda.

Conventional metals detectors have been, and can be used to trace discriminated signal lines to a distant target.

A White's detector is shown being used in the photo below to trace a generated Signal line . Garett, has also been used. WAKE UP!

"WHAT HAS BEEN DONE, CAN BE DONE BY THOSE WHO ARE NOT MENTALLY IMPAIRED BY DECEPTIVE BS RHETORIC. Dell

http://www.treasureamerica.com/photo/shull.jpg

[Max]

Max, I am honest, and truthful. I do not speak of anything that I have not experienced personally.
I don't know why I waste my time trying to educate uninterested intellectual idiots the facts and the truth.

Carl, may be your idol but he has well demonstrated over the years that his BS rhetoric and lies are nothing but a gimmick to get attention for himself, and perpetrate the leader of the Skeptic Society's fake agenda and untruths about Dell. On this subject he knows nothing of what he so authoriativey speaks of.

We have the blind leading the blind in an effort to perpetuate a deception and personal agenda.

Conventional metals detectors have been, and can be used to trace discriminated signal lines to a distant target.

A White's detector is shown being used in the photo below to trace a generated Signal line . Garett, has also been used. WAKE UP!

"WHAT HAS BEEN DONE, CAN BE DONE BY THOSE WHO ARE NOT MENTALLY IMPAIRED BY DECEPTIVE BS RHETORIC. Dell

http://www.treasureamerica.com/photo/shull.jpg

Hi Dell,
are you in the picture ???

Anyway, topic was not about detecting a power line or signal line, my friend.
I know that there are cables detectors (power lines) and pipes too that use separate tx etc etc...
I know could be done: I've made it! :D


TOPIC WAS DETECT A COIN ON SURFACE SOIL FROM METERS AWAY USING A METAL DETECTOR.

That was the claim and you know that is impossible, like I know.

Or that White's detector CAN DETECT A COIN ON SURFACE SOIL FROM METERS AWAY ALSO ???.

DO YOU SAY THAT ?

And many others here know what I'm talking about... but someone still say that NO... it's science, there are patents... you could made an MD to find coins from meters away on the soil surface...

I'm really awake Dell and not belonging any society or agenda, but just my personal agenda.

OK, so where are the patents ? Why this bright experimenter (NIHIL ROMA MAIUS) don't post here any reference to that "metal detector" ???
Any patent ?

Cause chinese could copy ! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh yeah.

So also Whites or Tesoro would do the same if that's the problem !
Or not ? And also e.g. Bruce Candy, Minelab etc etc

Or maybe there are no patents... bust just EMPTY WORDS ? :)

Anyway, I hope you're well now and we can discuss the topic again.

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

.

[Carl-NC]

This is not an endorsement for Mineoro, but I am still waiting for Carl, to collect the $50,000 Mineoro Challenge by proving the Mineoro, does not work. I wonder why he has become silent about Mineoro, yet didn't hesitate to attack and lie about me for years?

I've emailed Mineoro several times wanting to take them up on their offer, but I get no response. At one point, they had blocked my email.

Do you ever think that the non-scientist who use and have experience with LRL products might have learned, and know something about LRL that you do not?

I'm offering a good chunk of money for someone to demonstrate a working LRL to me. When that happens, I will take the concept seriously. So far, it hasn't happened.

- Carl

[Dell Winders]

No, That's not me in the photo but I did take the photo.

Yes, I am saying that the Whites modified metal detector in the photo has detected coins on and below the surface from several meters away and they can be traced to the source and pinpointed with the same metal detector, if they are not buried beyond the depth limitations of the metal detector when used in the conventional mode.

The expert EE's on this forum call a generated signal line to a distant Gold, or Silver object as being non-existant and imaginary. They are so wrong in that belief.

So why does a modified metal detector detect and trace a non-existant, imaginary Signal line to a Gold target which is also detectable and traceable with a pair of rods, or directional locator? I have no idea, but myself and hundreds of other have experienced this thousands of times.

When the EE's here say it is impossible, and promote childish, egotistical, pretend to know it all mockery, you people are inferring that I and others are being untruthful.

I do not lie, and I don't appreciate such inferences.

O.K. so you are a skeptic of what you don't understand. We all are, so what?

Your closed minded attitude to the possibilities shows you don't give a damm about learning the known facts about LRL Remote Sensing Discrimination, and seem to enjoy exhibiting a percieved intellectual superiority over non-formally educated people by making a mockery of them, and Science.


Science is the ability to consider the possibilities beyond the textbook and learn and think for your self. Some of the EE's posting here are nothing more than copy cats. Monkey see, Monkey do. What Monkey cannot be trained to see, Monkey cannot learn.

Perhaps it's coincidence that when White's came out with their Gold Nugget detector, their engineers used the 5.0 Khz. frequency.

Exactly the same frequency that myself, and others used to detect Gold for years from a distance with MFD. I might wonder why their EE's chose that specific frequency as advantageous for detecting Gold?

Well I really don't care. The results are what counts. It worked for their application, and it worked for mine.

So come on Max, get off your intellectual high horse, stop using this forum to make fun of those you feel to be less educated than yourself. Accept the possibility that there are LRL users trying to post that know more about the subject than you, and try to learn from what they say with out mocking in return.

I hope you rise above this opinionated self centered egotism and join J. Player in his common sense (scientific) approach to reasearching the possibilities.

I've done enough preaching. Good luck with trying to learn anything with an opionated negative attitude. Dell

[Dell Winders]

I'm offering a good chunk of money for someone to demonstrate a working LRL to me. When that happens, I will take the concept seriously. So far, it hasn't happened. - Carl

It's a Randi, copy cat gimmick to promote Carl Moreland. As you said yourself you keep adding rules to make it as near to impossible for anyone to take your money and remain legal.

The only thing that might pass your so called challenge is extraordinary luck.

IT'S AN INTENTIONALLY DECEPTIVE GIMMICK! It has nothing to do with Scientific study, or proving the merits of LRL for treasure hunting, one way or the other.

GIMMICk! GIMMICK! GIMMICK! GIMMICK! GIMMICK! GIMMICK! GIMMICK!

Even LRL manufacturers, ELECTROSCOPE ($100,000), and MINEORO ($50,000, offered better Challenge GIMMICKS. Good luck on winning any of them. The chances of winning the lottery, or gambling Vegas offer much better odds. Dell

[J_Player]

$25,000 USD is a gimmick?

It looks like a cool $25,000 to anyone that can correctly identify which of the 10 cups a gold bar is hidden under 7 times out of 10. I could care less if it's a gimmick, long as the person who gets 7 out of 10 is paid $25,000.

If a PI metal detector was allowed in this contest at 1 meter range, I would easily win the $25,000. But from 10 feet, and only LRL devices, I can't do it. Perhaps some of the people who claim LRLs work can do it.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

It's about Discrimination, not metal detecting. Place an iron, or aluminum bar under the other 9 cups and see how well your PI locates just the Gold bar 7 out of 10 tries.

When you go metal detecting are 7 out of every 10 items you dig, Gold? Come on, be realistic.

Remote sensing Discriminators are intended to be an information tool to aid in determining the probability of deep buried treasure being present that are usually beyond the depth limitations of conventional detectors. Depending on whos manufacture, I find Remote Sensing Discrimination to be the easiest fastest, reliable according to operating conditions, and most economical tool to use for any preliminary Treasure survey.

Certainly, if a metal detector would do the job I would use my metal detector, but it doesn't, nor is it designed to do so.

Why do you keep trying to belittle a tool that has been so useful to Professional Treasure hunting? Your negative attitude defies common sense logic. If it works, and there is a requirement for such a tool for deep searches, why shouldn't I use it, and pass the knowledge of my experience on to others. That experience knows that Carl Morlands, So cvalled Challenge is nothing more than a publicity gimmick sham that serves an agenda of willful deception no better than some of the false and mis-leading LRL advertising claims his own deception adds public credibility to.

It appeared in your latter posts that you had an interest in learning?? Dell

[J_Player]

Hi Dell,

It sounds like you're confused:

Carl's contest will award $25,000 to the person who locates a 10-ounce gold bar. There is no extra aluminum or iron added to confuse the test. Just a simple 10-ounce hidden gold bar. I can think of a few metal detectors that may locate this gold bar hidden under a paper cup from 10 feet, but I can't think of any LRL that can do that. Can yours?

There is nothing negative about it. It is a fact that there is no LRL capable of locating a 10 ounce bar hidden under a cup 7 times out of a total of 10 tries from 10 feet distance. Simple scientific provable fact. It is neither positive or negative unless you decide to assign those values to it. If I am wrong about this fact, why not prove it? I think we are all willing to learn what your LRL can do by taking Carl's test.

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

.

[Max]

Hi Dell,
I swear, I never see, never read, never used, never heard (apart here of that claims) that

A METAL DETECTOR CAN DETECT A COIN ON SURFACE SOIL FROM METERS AWAY !

Also considering "meters" = 2meters, the shortest for making the plural... I know that there aren't commercial metal detectors capable of that, and even homemade or homemade mods. No "serious" manifacturer of metal detectors (Minelab, White's, Garrett, Tesoro, Fisher, TBel, Lorentz etc) claim that one of his detectors could do.

I've heard of e.g. ULF/ELF detectors capable of detecting metals at meters away, nanovoltmeters, zahori... and LRL-devices like that, but never that a "metal detector" can do.

Or that "metal detector" definition was generic meaning "everything that can detect metals (or claimed of detecting metals)" ? Who knows ? We have to ask Nihil.

But he said I can do myself... a "metal detector" like that, or that I can "modify" it as a CAR to get it work for "medium range".

Maybe I'm wrong, I don't feel being the holder of absolute truth as someone here said. Maybe it exist. Maybe you're right on that White's detector and I've just wrong thoughts about detecting coins at meters away using metal detectors.

If so, I'll be the first admitting here I'm wrong. But untill someone explain me which model/brand can do or give me any patent or any serious information I'll consider the claim impossible.

How can I test myself if I don't know model/brand or patents or any other good informations ?

How can I test, if people like N.R.M. said that stuff exist and work... and then don't give any information, any patent, any model/brand reference !?

Have I perform a faith act ?

Of course, if the coin is an antenna wired e.g. with a separate tx I can detect even at 30 or 100 meters away and more! But it's serious pretending or claiming that a "metal detector" can do, when you need to wire the coin as an antenna ?

Or point a directional tx antenna in the right spot (between thousands of possible spots) to get reflected rf signal from a coin on surface? You must know where the coin is cause otherwise you'll lost in thousand of other reflections e.g. from stones, from grass, from the ground itself!

Also it's serious even talking about of treasure detectors for object on that stay on surface soil ???

In underwater TH it's serius talking about that stuff, cause if you are e.g. in water with your legs... can't see stuff easy even if not under sand etc... but in inland conditions why one would need that ??? to avoid bush and grass masking the coin to eyes ???

Kind regards,
Max

[Dell Winders]

If a PI metal detector was allowed in this contest at 1 meter range, I would easily win the $25,000. But from 10 feet, and only LRL devices, I can't do it. Perhaps some of the people who claim LRLs work can do it

And if it were a comparison test between my LRL and your PI on finding a 1 oz Gold bar buried 2 meters deep you wouldn't stand a chance of winning.

As I said, Carl has made rules to his challenge that winning will only be by a wild stroke of luck. It proves nothing. It's a gimmick designed to promote Carl, and you are falling for it. Good luck! You will need it with your PI comparison rationale. Dell

[Dell Winders]

Max, I have no idea what nihil is referring to. I only speak from my personal experience to try to get you guys to realize that some of the things you say can't be done, have already been done, and are being done. It's been obvious from the posts on this forum that you guys don't know half of what you pretend to know.

So how about the photo I posted? Is it a scam Dowsing device that can't possibly work any beter than chance guessing?

Or is it a real working device that actually discriminates to Gold from a distance, and operates within laws of physics?

Does it work as I say it does or not? Nothing has stopped your pretended expertise from making irrational judgement from a photo before. Come on, and show how smart you really are. Carl, anybody? Do you really think something this crude & simple, made by an uneducated Kentucky hillbilly, could actually Discriminate to Gold from a distance? Dell

[J_Player]

And if it were a comparison test between my LRL and your PI on finding a 1 oz Gold bar buried 2 meters deep you wouldn't stand a chance of winning.

As I said, Carl has made rules to his challenge that winning will only be by a wild stroke of luck. It proves nothing. It's a gimmick designed to promote Carl, and you are falling for it. Good luck! You will need it with your PI comparison rationale. Dell

Hi Dell,
Again, you are confused. Carl's test does not require that you bury the 10 ounce bar 2 meters deep. You only need to tell which one of 10 paper cups it is hidden under. So this is basically an air test to see if any detector can determine which of the ten cups the gold bar is hidden under from at least 10 feet away.

A good PI detector will find the gold bar every time from 1 meter distance, but most won't from 10 feet. Can a LRL find the gold bar from 10 feet even 7 out of 10 times? That's all you need to do to pass the test and get your check for $25,000.

Your arguments claiming the test is not fair lead me to believe you are not capable of locating the 10 ounce gold bar 7 out of 10 times from 10 feet. Therefore you want Carl to change his test to something different that you think a LRL can do. But wait, "LRL" stands for "long range locator". Doesn't this mean it should locate something at long range?

Carl's test rules seem pretty simple to me. Can you tell us which of Carl's rules prevents a LRL from locating the 10 ounce gold bar hidden under a paper cup 10 feet away so finding it "will only be by a wild stroke of luck"?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Max, I have no idea what nihil is referring to. I only speak from my personal experience to try to get you guys to realize that some of the things you say can't be done, have already been done, and are being done. It's been obvious from the posts on this forum that you guys don't know half of what you pretend to know.

So how about the photo I posted? Is it a scam Dowsing device that can't possibly work any beter than chance guessing?

Or is it a real working device that actually discriminates to Gold from a distance, and operates within laws of physics?

Does it work as I say it does or not? Nothing has stopped your pretended expertise from making irrational judgement from a photo before. Come on, and show how smart you really are. Carl, anybody? Do you really think something this crude & simple, made by an uneducated Kentucky hillbilly, could actually Discriminate to Gold from a distance? Dell

Hi Dell,
OK so it works !

OK so please now give us data about detector (MODEL/BRAND), eventual mods. required, usage and distance at how it can detect a coin (and size and type of coin, of course).

So we can find it, test and gain your experience too.

Kind regards,
Max

[Dell Winders]

Hi Dell,
OK so it works !

OK so please now give us data about detector (MODEL/BRAND), eventual mods. required, usage and distance at how it can detect a coin (and size and type of coin, of course).

So we can find it, test and gain your experience too.

Kind regards,
Max

How can you tell if it works by looking at a picture? Does everybody else say it works as you imply? Does Carl, say it works?

As I said, from your posts it doesn't appear that you people are capable of thinking for your selves. Just copycats looking for a free ride.

I guess you expect me to go out at my own expense, recover your treasure and hand it to you on a Gold platter. Get Real!

No, I am not going hand every thing over to you Carte Blanche so you can copy and build your own at my expense. Who to hell do you think you are to make such a request.

I've wasted enough of my time on this forum replying to the same asinine posts over and over. Dell

[Max]

As I said, from your posts it doesn't appear that you people are capable of thinking for your selves. Just copycats looking for a free ride.

I guess you expect me to go out at my own expense, recover your treasure and hand it to you on a Gold platter. Get Real!

No, I am not going hand every thing over to you Carte Blanche so you can copy and build your own at my expense. Who to hell do you think you are to make such a request.

I've wasted enough of my time on this forum replying to the same asinine posts over and over. Dell

Dell

Hi,
??? Now I'm really puzzled ???

So you don't provide more informations than others here.

Really sorry about that.

Sorry, but I can revert question that way:
Who to hell do you think you are to hope we belive what you said without providing any information or proof but just your personal ideas and claims ?

No productive ideas exchange here. Nice.

Just claims ! Good ! Bravo!

I was trying making some serious discussion... not to be intellectually insulted.

I can also say:
If your detector can detect a coin from few meters away
MINE CAN DETECT FROM ONE GALAXY TO ANOTHER. :cool:

Best regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Hi Dell,

We don't know if your LRL works from looking at a picture or listening to stories. The only way we know is if we see a demonstration of what it can do, same as a real scientist would do.

Carl's test does not require that you hand over any of your technology. Carl will fork over the $25,000 if you demonstrate your LRL finding the hidden gold bar 7 out of 10 tries from 10 feet distance. There is no requirement that you show the secret contents inside the plastic parts of your LRL. Simply locate the gold bar 7 times, then take the $25,000 check and go home. Your trade secrets are safe.

Is the reason you say the test is unfair because your LRL cannot locate a gold bar from 10 feet?

Would you say the test is more fair if Carl changed the rules to find the gold bar hidden under only one paper cup? Maybe your LRL could find it 7 out of ten times if only one cup to hide it under?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi JP,
I think that all these are goodnight stories... no metal detector can find any (normal) coin on surface soil from meters away! that's what I say! :lol:

And LRL are, in a similar way, unuseful locate stuff at meters away (or even at cms in that case, where instead metal detectors work and find coins not only on surface but also buried).

LRL finds nothing of nothing.

All rhetoric examples here: trade secrets ! :lol:

Which trade secrets ? Think there isn't any secret about any technology of lrl, just immagination in the best case, or fraud intentions in bad cases.

OK, ok give them the opportunity of show that this stuff work for real!
Why not !?

But problem is that nobody want try!
Nobody can demonstrate nothing of that!
That's why nobody partecipate at challenge here!

If you have a business, earn money etc why you would like partecipate to such a competition knowing that your devices are fake ? And you'll reputation would lost in space, you customers would ask tribunals for compensation... you'll have to change identity maybe (for real)... cause someone would search you even in the "hall of fame of LRL out there"... you'll lose everything:

- money
- face
- and even the right to post here or even to talk in a bar of TH

You'll be banned from the world of TH forever! That's why they are so scared! :lol:

I wrote about e.g. magnaCharta or whatever of my friend... but are all the same stuff:
electronic-LRL is a dream (for the naive TH) and a nightmare (for the naive TH that buy one).

At least for now. Actual stuff out there I mean.
Future who knows ?

All I see here confirms that.

Claims, words, stupid pictures: as you want
Real scientific results, facts, documents, informations, patents, even model/brand: nothing

Nothing of nothing.

Pictures of men holding StarTrek pistols, phasers, claim of television programs about "discoveries", some ir-led, some homemade work...

I could replicate here posting tons of fake pictures like that.
But I don't sell or push/support LRL, so I don't.

Which trade secrets ? Only trade secrets I see are about people sharing economic interests in selling/promoting/supporting that stuff...

That at the end don't interest me at all !

We are just wasting time here, trying to get some information from people that don't even know what they are talking about... but just glue with spit (as my friend said) pieces of junk, claiming this or that, in this pretty mosaic.

That's my opinion.

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

OK, ok give them the opportunity of show that this stuff work for real!
Why not !?

But problem is that nobody want try!

...We are just wasting time here, trying to get some information from people that don't even know what they are talking aboutHi Max,

Some people don't want you to know the facts. Dell concealed the facts about the Dell Omnitron V.R. 800 for years because he did not want us to know that Vernell manufactured it. He also is concealing the facts about field tests he conducted in public using this device. It seems that if you ask Dell to see something substantial to demonstrate what he says is true, Dell will call you deceitful, pretender, liar, etc. rather than demonstrate his LRLs working. He tells us we must look at the field tests rather than relying on photos to determine what his LRLs can do, but he refuses to show us field testing. Can you guess why?

Dell is one of the few LRL manufacturers who actually did test his LRL in front of witnesses to show what it can do. Today you will have your chance to read about the field testing on the LRL that Dell demonstrated when he attempted to win a contest for finding the hidden treasure. He tried to show Randi that his LRL will find hidden coins at the beach, and win a prize in 1987. The Randi prize is silmilar to Carl's contest, except in 1987 Randi's prize was only for $10,000, while it is $1 million today. Randi will pay the million dollars to anyone who can demonstrate dowsing with dowsing rods or an LRL.

Back in 1987, Dell decided to win Randi's $10,000 prize using the Dell Omnitron model V.R. 800. Yes, this is the same Omnitron VR 800 that Dell now says was manufactured by Vernell without his knowledge or consent. But still he chose it as the LRL to use to locate the hidden targets in 1987. The result was Dell failed Randi's test. During this test, Dell offered seven different excuses for why the Dell Omnitron V.R. 800 did not find the hidden targets. But maybe better to read the whole story here about the Omnitron V.R. 800 failing to locate coins in the sand: http://www.randi.org/jr/200511/111805setback.html#i9

But thats not all... After Dell saw this story, he responded back to Randi. See what Dell said here: http://www.randi.org/jr/200511/112505psychich.html#i5

So now you know the story of the testing of Dell's LRL. But you also asked about the technical details. On the Randi page you saw some photos of the circuit board that show the construction methods. The real explanation of why this LRL can't find treasure is revealed in the circuit schematic. The functional part of the circuit is a 555 timer with adjustable frequency using 10% duty cycle negative pulse. The output of this timer is sent directly to 2 ground probes via a 0.1 uF capacitor. There is no power amp! Can you imagine any EM energy transmitted more than a few cm? See the full internal components and schematic diagram here: http://geotech.thunting.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=reports/vr800/index.dat

Now, if some LRL manufacturer refuses to demonstrate their products before you pay money for them, then maybe they are selling equipment similar to what you see in that report. But if the LRL manufacturer is willing to demonstrate their machine working like they say it will, then you are talking to somebody with a real LRL.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Carl, anybody? Do you really think something this crude & simple, made by an uneducated Kentucky hillbilly, could actually Discriminate to Gold from a distance? Dell
OK - as you're asking..... No I do not think such a crude device can discriminate gold from a distance, let alone detect gold in the first place.
Remote sensing Discriminators are intended to be an information tool to aid in determining the probability of deep buried treasure being present that are usually beyond the depth limitations of conventional detectors.
The only probability associated with an LRL is the probability that you won't find anything.
Although LRLs do have one certainty - an empty wallet and many regrets.

[Dell Winders]

J Player, you sure love to tell lies, and now perpetrate Randi's lies. Just like Carl.:nono: There is very little truth in your posting. Randi, lied, and now you have included yourself as a part of the cover up. So why hasn't Randi sued me for calling him a liar, and for defamation of his character?

It's because he knows I can prove what I say in a court of law. He's a liar, and so is Carl.

Let's see you, or Randi, show proof to back up your false accuations and libelous action. You are a LIAR!

Dell

[Carl-NC]

Dell concealed the facts about the Dell Omnitron V.R. 800 for years because he did not want us to know that Vernell manufactured it.

I have the original box for the VR800. The shipping label says it came from Dell, not Vernell.

- Carl

[Carl-NC]

And if it were a comparison test between my LRL and your PI on finding a 1 oz Gold bar buried 2 meters deep you wouldn't stand a chance of winning.

Are you saying that you could locate a 1 oz gold bar, buried 2 meters deep, with nothing but an LRL? If so, could you locate it if it were only buried 2 feet deep? Or 1 foot?

- Carl

[J_Player]

It seems that if you ask Dell to see something substantial to demonstrate what he says is true, Dell will call you deceitful, pretender, liar, etc. rather than demonstrate his LRLs working.Hahahahaaaa.. I todja so....

Dell, is that the best you can do? call everyone a liar, and now the conspiracy crap? Why not just demonstrate one of your LRLs finding a hidden treasure? This will end any arguments about whether your LRLs work or not.

I read on your website how the Dell X-Scan finds hidden money easily by all the people who sent in messages: http://www.omnitron.net/del_prod.htm. Is this just a bunch of fake stuff you put on your website? Or can you demonstrate your X-Scan actually doing what is described on that page?

We don't need any more sneaky marketing gimmicks. We don't need to read about more people wishing they could have their money back for equipment that just didn't work. Perhaps if you were to perform a simple demonstration of your LRLs doing what we read they do on your website, in front of witnesses, then you will have some basis to tell us we are wrong.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

J PLAYER & ALL;

Make no mistake abnout it. In the U.S. the Owner of a website is legally responsible for it's content.

J Player, your malicious and fraudulent accusations against my charcter and, livelyhood have overs tepped legal and ethical limits.

Unfortunately, Carl Moreland, this website owner appears to unapologeticly condone, and encourage such fraudulent behavior with the intentional purpose of public defamation of character and depriving me of an honest livelyhood.

I will no longer accept these blatant atttacks against my life long reputation of honesty and integrity.

I am filing complaints against this forum and it's proprietor, with the appropriate authorities, and I will do everything possible to get this website shut down which does not exclude the possibility of civil action.

I do expect all posts and reports that attack the products I sell and defamation of my name and reputation to be removed immediately and apologies for your public lies about me forthcoming.

Dell Winders, Dell Systems - Omnitron

[Max]

Hi Dell,

a Civil Action ?

Now I'm even more puzzled ! :shocked:

Of course you can... sue people here if someone made wrongs to you!

(even if I think it's not the case)

I'm not puzzled of that thing... but was thinking :

At trial, defence could ask you to demonstrate that LRL you sell are working devices, as claimed on your website (something like the challege, with witnesses etc) and judge may approve that test to be performed! :lol:

And then also rule indirectly about LRL industry claims by judgement, or not ?

Could be an interesting case!

Think twice, my friend. :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[Elie]

J PLAYER & ALL;

Make no mistake abnout it. In the U.S. the Owner of a website is legally responsible for it's content.

J Player, your malicious and fraudulent accusations against my charcter and, livelyhood have overs tepped legal and ethical limits.

Unfortunately, Carl Moreland, this website owner appears to unapologeticly condone, and encourage such fraudulent behavior with the intentional purpose of public defamation of character and depriving me of an honest livelyhood.

I will no longer accept these blatant atttacks against my life long reputation of honesty and integrity.

I am filing complaints against this forum and it's proprietor, with the appropriate authorities, and I will do everything possible to get this website shut down which does not exclude the possibility of civil action.

I do expect all posts and reports that attack the products I sell and defamation of my name and reputation to be removed immediately and apologies for your public lies about me forthcoming.

Dell Winders, Dell Systems - Omnitron
Hi Dell
If I can prove to everyone that existing long range locator technology, implemented by well known long range locator companies, actually finds treasure, will you promise not to sue anyone, and
shut up?

[J_Player]

Hi Dell,

Go ahead and sue us, Dell. We can let a judge and jury decide whether we told any lies, or if it was you who made defamatory remarks. Why not sue Randi too, while yer at it? As Max said, I'm sure the attorney for the defense will ask to see you demonstrate the X-Scan finding hidden money, and the V.R. 800 finding hidden coins in front of the jury.

The fact is, you would rather launch attacks against anyone who posts an opinion that your LRL's can't find hidden treasure than to demonstrate what your LRLs do. If you really intended to sue anyone, wouldn't you have done it long ago when you claimed Randi lied about your failed test results? Is your threat of a lawsuit more bogus "wind from Winders", or can we expect to actually see you demonstrate your equipment in court?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

J PLAYER & ALL;

Make no mistake abnout it. In the U.S. the Owner of a website is legally responsible for it's content.

J Player, your malicious and fraudulent accusations against my charcter and, livelyhood have overs tepped legal and ethical limits.

Unfortunately, Carl Moreland, this website owner appears to unapologeticly condone, and encourage such fraudulent behavior with the intentional purpose of public defamation of character and depriving me of an honest livelyhood.

I will no longer accept these blatant atttacks against my life long reputation of honesty and integrity.

I am filing complaints against this forum and it's proprietor, with the appropriate authorities, and I will do everything possible to get this website shut down which does not exclude the possibility of civil action.

I do expect all posts and reports that attack the products I sell and defamation of my name and reputation to be removed immediately and apologies for your public lies about me forthcoming.

Dell Winders, Dell Systems - Omnitron
Why am I not surprised?
When you sell devices based on extremely dubious scientific principles (and by that I mean pseudoscience) than you must expect criticism. As mentioned recently on this forum, you took Randi's LRL challenge and were found to be wanting. This double-blind test used a scientifically proven method that removes any subjective measurement caused by self-delusion and selective memory. Once your devices were tested in an objective manner they were found not to work as advertised.
I don't know what the equivalent is in the U.S. to the UK's Department of Fair Trading, but I'm sure they would be very interested in investigating your exaggerated claims.

[J_Player]

Hi Qiaozhi,I don't know what the equivalent is in the U.S. to the UK's Department of Fair Trading, but I'm sure they would be very interested in investigating your exaggerated claims.In the USA we have the Federal Trade Commission who investigates fraud perpetrated on consumers. Apparently they are not interested. Perhaps they are more concerned practices that defraud a larger number of people than a few treasure hunters who believe Dell's LRLs can show them where treasure is. Even Randi commented about this 8 months ago in his reply to Dell's email:
WILL YOU OR WILL YOU NOT DEMONSTRATE YOUR DEVICE AND WIN THE MILLION-DOLLAR PRIZE? You are advertising and selling a device which you claim works, yet you will not SHOW that it works, and win a million dollars?

That’s a yes-or-no question, Dell Winders. Either you will, or you won’t. If you won’t, the only reason I can imagine is that you know the Omnitron doesn’t work, that it’s a fake, and you know that you can’t win the prize – yet you continue to sell it to suckers who you thereby swindle, safe from any FTC interference because they just don’t care, and you know it.Randi's reference to the FTC is the Federal Trade Commission. In the USA, defrauding consumers across state lines is not a civil offense, but a criminal offense which is handled in the juristiction of a federal court.
Read Randi's full reply here: http://www.randi.org/jr/200511/112505psychich.html#i5

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

Comment from a a recent observer when I made the location of a cannon buried 20 feet underground and computer imaged on Geophysical software with data from an E/M.

Hmmn! It kinda makes you wonder why a ranking aerospace engineer, having 23 years with the same company would offer such a different opinion of my products than any of you?

I guess It's kind of hard for folks to figure if he's lieing, or you are lieing?

Dell rules! What a cool guy and demonstrated technology beyond my aerospace engineer's comprehension.

[Nihil Roma Maius]

I have the original box for the VR800. The shipping label says it came from Dell, not Vernell.

- Carl

Not prove nothing, as Esteban's pics. OK?

[J_Player]

Hi Dell,

I guess It's kind of hard for folks to figure if he's lieing, or you are lieing?The only person accusing anyone of lying is you, Dell Winders.
Only you have called people deceitful, liars, and pretenders. And so far you have offered no proof to suggest any of these accusations are true. Nihil Roma Maius is right: Photos and stories prove nothing. The only way you can prove anyone lied is if you can first prove that your LRL equipment will find the hidden gold, contrary to what Randi says, then also prove that Randi had knowledge that your LRL did find the hidden gold enough times to pass the test at the beach.

Nobody in this thread posted that your LRLs don't work. I simply asked if they can find a hidden 10 ounce gold bar from 10 feet distance, and asked to see a live demonstration of this. When Qiaozhi said he does not think your Omnitron works, he was voicing an opinion in response to your question, which is a freedom allowed in the UK and in the USA.

It was only Randi who actually saw your live demonstration of the "Dell Omnitron V.R. 800" failing to find the gold coins hidden in the sand. Was Randi right when he said the Omnitron is a fake, and it doesn't work? If you can prove in a court of law that he is lying, then why don't you? If you can't prove it, we will understand. But don't expect us to believe your products work when you refuse to stand behind them in a live demonstration to show what they can do.

I asked you which of Carl's contest rules would prevent a LRL from locating the hidden 10 ounce gold bar.
I also asked if you can demonstrate your X-Scan actually doing what is described on your web page.
I also asked if your LRL can find a hidden 10 ounce gold bar from 10 feet distance.
But you never answered any of these questions.

So what are the answers?

Which of Carl's rules prevents your LRL from finding the cup where the gold bar is hidden under?
Why won't you demonstrate your X-Scan doing what we read that it does on your website?
Can your LRL find gold from a 10 foot distance hidden under a paper cup?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Elie]

Answer my question, Dell.

[Rudy]

When I started my career as a young electrical engineer, I had a
wise old boss, who had done his internship with D'Arlington. He
always had great stories to say, but what I still remember, after
all these years was his favorite saying:


Even if you try, as hard as you can,
you can't make chicken salad
out of chicken sh#t.

[Dell Winders]

Something for liars to ponder. The VR-800, or Vernell products did not exist when Randi conducted the MFD test.

Kinda makes folks wonder why Carl, would condone and support such lies on his website.

Oh yeah, it's because he is one of the creators of the VR-800 lie to help Randi cover up his lies, and you guys are doing them the favor of perpetrating their lies, at my expense, of course. Very intelligent thinking.:lol:

ELLIE, go ahead and prove whatever you are going to prove. Don't let what I say stop you. Dell

[Dell Winders]

I have the original box for the VR800. The shipping label says it came from Dell, not Vernell.

- Carl

Not prove nothing, as Esteban's pics. OK?


NIHILL, don't worry about it. Carl, is being coy by pretending to be stupid. The world knows, and Carl knows that at one time I used, & sold Vernell products. It's no secret. Dell

[Max]

Hi,
as I said

claims ? stories ? funny pictures ? : as you want

real good informations, patents, documents, scientific facts, physics, even model/brand of devices !: nothing of nothing

Also really made tests (Randi's coins challenge) are contestated and re-challenged cause of pretentious words !

What's puzzling me again is that in this kind of tests, rules, defined before the test is performed by agrrement between observers/challengers and person who claim LRL works, must be respected also after test conclusion.

It's not a good thing that person that lose the challenge then can say:
OK THAT WAS A BAD TEST CAUSE ... SO BAD RESULTS ARE DUE TO...
NOT THAT WHAT I CLAIMED I CAN DO IS BOGUS!

Websites answers and challenges are for few people only: TV IS THE MEDIUM FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

I've seen some of these "tests" performed around another funny topic : "paranormal activities"

Same thing: people that claim find stuff under paper cups 7/10, buried stuff, in which place a person in a photo is in that moment, etc and other claims too, other "powers"

But that tests were conducted "live broadcast" on a TV channel: first was a lecture of rules, then handshake between people there, then test was performed. :lol:

Results were ALL : nobody won the PRIZE (more than 1 million dollars value)
BUT MOST IMPORTANT: TESTS HAVE GREAT SHARE ! MILLION PEOPLES SAW THEM AND MAKE AN IDEA OF WHAT'S that claimed "paranormal activities" really are.

No proofs, nobody can give any, that LRLs work.

Just dumb or naive THs that buy thinking they work cause they read tons of BS on this or that LRL manifacture/seller website.

TO LRL GUYS:

IF YOU LRL MANIFACTURERS/SELLERS CAN GIVE PROOFS YOUR STUFF WORK, OK, JUST NEEDED FIND AN AGREEMENT WITH CHALLENGERS, A TV CHANNEL AND SOME SPONSORS... SEEMS NOT SO DIFFICAULT !

AND YOU COULD GAIN ALSO FREE ADVERTISE IF YOUR STUFF WORK ! :lol:

SO WHY NOT ???

Otherwise you have no credit this stuff really work.

That's my point of view.

Best regards,
Max

[J_Player]

.

[J_Player]

What is Dell trying to hide?

I do expect all posts and reports that attack the products I sell and defamation of my name and reputation to be removed immediately and apologies for your public lies about me forthcoming.

Where are the public lies about Dell? What is he talking about?
I asked questions:

•Which of Carl's contest rules would prevent a LRL from locating the hidden 10 ounce gold bar?
•Can Dell demonstrate his X-Scan actually doing what is described on his web page?
•Can Dell's LRL find a hidden 10 ounce gold bar from 10 feet distance?
•Is the reason he says the test is unfair because his LRL cannot locate a gold bar from 10 feet?
Dell gave no answer to these questions, instead he made accusation of lies.

I explained the reason why he doesn't want people to see Randi's account of the field testing on his LRL. Did anyone lie? Isn't it true he doesn't want people to believe Randi because Randi reports his LRL failed to pass the test?

Did Randi lie about the test results like Dell claims? If Randi lied, and Dell can prove it in a court of law, then why didn't Dell prove it like he says he can? Is it because Dell cannot really prove it in a court of law? Is it because his LRL cannot find which of the 10 holes the hidden gold is in?

A pattern is emerging that is beginning to make the picture clearer:
What I read in this forum leads me to believe Dell is deliberately posting misleading information. I see this continuing pattern that appears Dell is motivated to confuse the details of the Vernell products and conceal the facts about Vernon Rose's involvement in the manufacture of his Omnitron products. For example:

Example 1.
look at Dell's statement: The world knows, and Carl knows that at one time I used, & sold Vernell products.I did a search and read all of Dell's 289 posts. I found nowhere that he said anything about the Dell Omnitron VR 800 being Vernell's products until last year when he called Carl a liar for believing the Dell Omnitron V.R. 800 was a Dell product. http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=43981&highlight=single+concept+illustrated+photo#post439 81 It looks like Dell was pointing the finger at Vernell so Carl could not say it was Dell who produced the "old garbage". How was anyone to know that the Dell Omnitron VR 800 was not the Dell Omnitron VR 800? The label clearly says "Dell Omnitron", and I see no earlier post where Dell tells us any different, nor do I see any evidence he told his customers this was not a Dell Omnitron. Is this the post Dell refers to when he says the whole world knows? In this post Dell didn't explain why the nameplate says "Dell Omnitorn" instead of "Vernell Electronics". The appearance is he is trying to conceal the real story about what happened between Dell Systems and Vernon Rose and others in the LRL business back when that VR 800 was made.

Example 2. The only other time Dell admitted Vernell made the Dell Omnitron was when I made some inquiries, and after three evasive answers he was forced to admit it. How did the world know about this "secret" of the Omnitron label before Dell finally admitted it? What did Dell mean by his comment: "I am weary of wasting my time answering questions that are none of your business." http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=56337&highlight=difference+makes#post56337 Does it look like Dell has been making this information available to the whole world, or was he trying to conceal it? How could anyone know that the Dell Omnitron VR 800 is not the Dell Omnitron VR 800 when Dell says it is "none of your business?" Only the people who happened to read that forum post would know! Does this sound like a deceptive business practice to you? Is Dell trying to conceal something?

Example 3.
In an earlier post where we were trying to discover the details about the Vernell Magnacast 5000, Dell unexpectedly jumped in and posted some fake web reference that led people to believe the tradenames Vernell used did not originate from Vernon Rose like he knew they did, but from some obscure programmer's website. His disinformation tactic was quickly exposed. Read about it here: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=53993&highlight=nonanticipatory#post53993 If Dell knew that Vernon Rose was the inventor of the tradename "forward gauss", then why did he hide this knowledge from the rest of us?

Example 4.
In that same thread where Dell attempted to spread disinformation about the Vernell LRL, you will see him later attacking a member's comprehension of english rather than answering his question about what conditions Dell claimed made the Vernell VR impractical for his use in 1988. Again, Dell is concealing the details about the Vernell LRLs. Why would he do that?

Example 5.
Yesterday Dell made another confusing comment: ...the VR-800, or Vernell products did not exist when Randi conducted the MFD test. But the Vernell website tells us Vernell Electronics was founded by Vernon Rose in 1977, not after the 1987 MFD test like Dell Winders wants us to believe. See what Vernell says: http://www.vernellelectronics.com/about.htm So who should we believe? Should we believe what Dell says, or should we believe the owners of Vernell Electronics? Should we believe Vernon Rose is also a liar like Dell says we are? Or should we believe the Vernell website tells the truth when they say Vernell Electronics was founded in 1977?

Example 6.
Dell makes reference to an EE who designed his circuitry here: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=44158&highlight=hour#post44158
Who was this EE who designed Dell's early Omnitrons? Was this the same Vernon Rose who founded Vernell Electronics? Is it a cooincidence that Carl calls the circuits made by Vernell garbage and also calls the circuits in the Omnitron garbage? Or is this EE the same Vernon Rose who made the circuitry that Carl called garbage? Is Dell willing to let his consumers know which EE designed his circuitry, or is this also something that Dell wants to conceal?

Example 7.
Since Dell is now confusing the issue of what LRL he used to perform the Randi field test, then perhaps he can tell us what LRL he used, and who designed and built the electronics in it. Do you suppose it might be the same Vernon Rose who built this LRL for Dell to use in Randi's test? Is there some reason why Dell wants to conceal this information, while at the same time calling Randi a liar?

These examples seem to all be centered around the same objective: Hide the details of Dell's involvement with Vernell.
But why would Dell try to conceal the details about Vernell's involvement with the Dell Omnitron products? Dell is safe from the Federal Trade Commission, they are looking for bigger fish. Is it possible that if someone would reveal the secrets Dell is hiding, maybe the FTC would take a closer look at what Dell was involved in back when he launched the Omnitron? Do you think this is the reason he refuses to tell the real story about Vernell and the others, and will not sue anyone? Is Dell afraid the witnesses will tell the truth on the witness stand and incriminate him as a fraud and accessory? Is this why we see threats of how he can sue Randi and win in court, but he never does?

The FTC is only empowered to file civil suits against people that defraud consumers. But in recent years they have been working with the justice department to treat these as criminal offenses. We now see that business owners who are convicted of fraud are spending their time in a federal penitentiary. Do you suppose Dell is aware of this and was advised by his attorney to stop threatening to sue people? Is Dell afraid he may be sent to the federal penitentiary?

Is this also the reason why Dell will not demonstrate his LRLs working as the words on his website describe them working?

Dell hasn't answered any of these questions. Can anyone else?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

. ... and after three evasive answers he (Dell) was forced to admit it.
Well (again) there's no surprises here. Dell is always evasive amd frequently fails to answer a direct question. Instead we receive a torrent of abuse, and most recently threats that cannot be supported by fact.

What did Dell mean by his comment: "I am weary of wasting my time answering questions that are none of your business."
This is basically just another evasion tactic. How many times has Dell made this "promise" to stop wasting his time on this forum? ...and he's still here. :frown:

Does this sound like a deceptive business practice to you? Is Dell trying to conceal something?
Possibly - but that pre-supposes that there is some intelligence behind the usual rants. Most likely he's just horribly confused, and so overcome by self-delusion.

In that same thread where Dell attempted to spread disinformation about the Vernell LRL, you will see him later attacking a member's comprehension of english rather than answering his question about what conditions Dell claimed made the Vernell VR impractical for his use in 1988.
That's almost funny. English comprehension - from a hillbilly! :lol:

Dell makes reference to an EE who designed his circuitry here: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=44158&highlight=hour#post44158
Nobody designing this garbage can rightfully call themselves an EE. :(

Since Dell is now confusing the issue of what LRL he used to perform the Randi field test, then perhaps he can tell us what LRL he used, and who designed and built the electronics in it.
I'll be surprised if you get a straight answer. :rolleyes:

Is Dell afraid the witnesses will tell the truth on the witness stand and incriminate him as a fraud and accessory? Is this why we see threats of how he can sue Randi and win in court, but he never does?
I'm not sure, but a pig may have just flown past. :D

The FTC is only empowered to file civil suits against people that defraud consumers. But in recent years they have been working with the justice department to treat these as criminal offenses. We now see that business owners who are convicted of fraud are spending their time in a federal penitentiary. Do you suppose Dell is aware of this and was advised by his attorney to stop threatening to sue people? Is Dell afraid he may be sent to the federal penitentiary?
Personally, if I was selling this garbage, I'd keep a low profile.

Is this also the reason why Dell will not demonstrate his LRLs working as the words on his website describe them working?
According to The Skeptic's Dictionary: "Since dowsing is not based on any known scientific or empirical laws or forces of nature, it should be considered a type of divination. The dowser tries to locate objects by occult means."

Dressing up a dowsing rod with some fanciful electronics is just a blatant scam to trap the unwary. When you combine this with the even more fanciful idea of "map dowsing" it just makes the mind boggle. Unfortunately Dell actually seems to believe this stuff.

"Our capacity for self-deception has no known limits" - Michael Novak

[Elie]

Something for liars to ponder. The VR-800, or Vernell products did not exist when Randi conducted the MFD test.

Kinda makes folks wonder why Carl, would condone and support such lies on his website.

Oh yeah, it's because he is one of the creators of the VR-800 lie to help Randi cover up his lies, and you guys are doing them the favor of perpetrating their lies, at my expense, of course. Very intelligent thinking.:lol:

ELLIE, go ahead and prove whatever you are going to prove. Don't let what I say stop you. Dell
I will only do it if you fulfill my conditions.
And it is Elie.

[Qiaozhi]

I will only do it if you fulfill my conditions.
And it is Elie.
It's English comprehension thing again. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Carl-NC]

A little clarification regarding the VR800...

When I first wrote the report, it was based on what I had in hand, and what it said. The shipping box said it came from Dell Systems. The manual said Dell Systems. The front of the unit said Dell Systems. The rear label said Dell Systems. Based on all that, I assumed the device came from Dell Systems. It makes no difference to me what individual actually designed the circuit, operated the soldering iron, or the hot glue gun.

Consider a White's detector... it comes from White's Electronics, regardless of whether the design engineer is a contract hire, or the PCB was assembled in Taiwan. White's is responsible for the products they sell under their label, regardless of how the products came about. Even if they take a cheapo Chinese detector, and slap a White's label on it, it is now a White's detector, on which their reputation rides.

The same is true for Dell Systems... when Dell plasters his brand name all over the product, it's his product. When the product is opened and found to be amateurish nonsense, the finger points to Dell. That's the way it goes. It's pretty obvious Dell is not proud of what he sold, as his tries his best to shirk responsibility for it. I have also had (on loan) another VR unit, and the owner states he bought it directly from Dell. And I own a GS Pro model, which Dell has already admitted to making. They are the same sort of nonsense as the VR800, so Dell's denials of the VR800 are hollow indeed. And since he continues to sell the same sort of rubbish he is so obviously ashamed of in the VR800, I have little choice but to assume he knows it's all rubbish.

Stand up, Dell, and take responsibility for your products!

Regarding his test with Randi, I have no idea what device he used. I've never claimed it was any VR unit, and I don't recall Dell ever saying. Doesn't really matter, it had dowsing rods, and it didn't work.

- Carl

[Dell Winders]

Carl, You need to do a lot of clarification, and a lot of apologizing. You keep letting the truth get in the way of your agenda to "Put me out of business" destroy my livelihood,and joining Randi, in his lies to ruin my life long reputation for honesty and integrity. You're own dis-honesty and deceit are a disgrace to the electronic & Scientific community.

You are soley responsible for the content of your website, supplying deceptive photo's for Randi, to use in international publications, and you have allowed, and encouraged your followers to perpertrate yours and Randi's lies about me to go beyond the boundries of ethics and decency.

Have you ever had any of my customers tell you my products work as I say they do?

Dell

[Carl-NC]

I stand behind everything I've posted on my web site. My LRL findings are completely accurate, and I back them up with a $25,000 guarantee. If that isn't good enough for you, then you are free to follow Jim Thomas' lead and take me to court, where you will lose in a spectacular way.

BTW, Randi takes his own photos.

- Carl

[Dell Winders]

Have you ever had any of my customers tell you my products work as I say they do?

Dell

[Elie]

Hi Dell
If I can prove to everyone that existing long range locator technology, implemented by well known long range locator companies, actually finds treasure, will you promise not to sue anyone, and
shut up?
Just in case anyone gets the wrong idea, the "existing long range locator technology, implemented by well known long range locator companies, actually finds treasure" part was a
JOKE.

[J_Player]

I don't know why I waste my time trying to educate uninterested intellectual idiots the facts and the truth.Dell, you are not trying to educate us. You are trying to conceal facts from us. I asked these questions, and you try to hide the answers:

• Which of Carl's contest rules would prevent a LRL from locating the hidden 10 ounce gold bar?
• Can you demonstrate the X-Scan actually doing what is described on your web page?
• Can your LRL find a 10 ounce gold bar hidden under a cup from 10 feet distance?
• Is the reason you say Carl's test is unfair because your LRL cannot locate a gold bar from 10 feet?
• If you can prove Randi lied in a court of law, why don't you?

Dell, we have been trying to learn these facts, but you conceal the truth about them. Please tell us, who is the idiot who knows the answers, yet pretends like he is trying to educate us instead of concealing the facts about these questions? Are you lying to us Dell Winders? Do you think we are too stupid to know the truth?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Carl-NC]

Have you ever had any of my customers tell you my products work as I say they do?

To the best of my recollection, none of your customers has ever told me that your products work "as you say they do*."

To the best of my recollection, none of your customers has ever told me that they've located and recovered any buried treasure with your products.

- Carl

*And how, by the way, do you say they work?