Tesla Metal Detector by Lockheed Martin?!

[Seden]

Yeah buddy (American expression). Check out patent 5,982,180. Robert I know what your going to say:Well slap my willy!:lol: But alas it is true,Lockheed spells it out in their patent. Who would of thought this would happen?:shocked:

Randy

[Clondike Clad]

now show us somthing we wan test abd not read a patent on.
ANYONE CAN GET A patent ON A WHATYAMACALLIT.

[Seden]

I don't know what country your in but obviously it's not the US. You need to become informed about who Lockheed is and their track record. Tell me please, what country are you in and be honest about it,do not hide.

Now, do your research about Lockheed and this time give us an intelligent response. A child could throw stones Clondike,that's easy.

Randy

[Max]

I don't know what country your in but obviously it's not the US. You need to become informed about who Lockheed is and their track record. Tell me please, what country are you in and be honest about it,do not hide.

Now, do your research about Lockheed and this time give us an intelligent response. A child could throw stones Clondike,that's easy.

Randy

Hi Randy,
I know who they are and I think he knows too. Maybe I'm wrong?
Think that the meaning of post was that patented technology means few if there aren't real devices developed. Of course, maybe there are!:lol:
Maybe just we haven't to know they exist...
Probably patent is just required to avoid that other subjects claim discovery of principles and start legal litigation for rights on future commercial/military applications.

They developed the XR-71 Blackbird and many other stuff. (NOT THE PI DETECTOR, BUT THE PLANE :rolleyes: wonderful machine designed by Kelly Johnson & Co).

Best regards,
Max

[Seden]

Max,

I'm pleased that you do know about Lockheed and also good insight to how Aerospace works regarding the patent process.

I didn't mean to jump on Clondike so hard but having worked at the Missle Systems group of Hughes Aircraft for a number of years plus a couple smaller Aerospace houses, he hit a raw nerve (and to be honest I just woke up and haven't had my first cup of coffee yet so my apologies to Clondike).
I have always appreciated your posts Max as your one of the few Engineers like Carl who respond in a professional manner even to the silliest of ideas put forth on this forum.
If you ever come to Los Angeles we can meet for lunch or dinner and I'm buying! :)

Randy

[Max]

Max,

I'm pleased that you do know about Lockheed and also good insight to how Aerospace works regarding the patent process.

I didn't mean to jump on Clondike so hard but having worked at the Missle Systems group of Hughes Aircraft for a number of years plus a couple smaller Aerospace houses, he hit a raw nerve (and to be honest I just woke up and haven't had my first cup of coffee yet so my apologies to Clondike).
I have always appreciated your posts Max as your one of the few Engineers like Carl who respond in a professional manner even to the silliest of ideas put forth on this forum.
If you ever come to Los Angeles we can meet for lunch or dinner and I'm buying! :)

Randy

Hi,
oh man... now I understand. :lol:
Thanks for the invitation... if I'll come there in the US, LA I'll be happy to meet you too.

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Hi Max and Seden. Thanks for the tip on the patent. :thumb: This post is more for Clondike Clad to show him how to build the thing.

WHAT IS IT?
This is a fascinating concept for locating buried metal objects. While there is nothing cutting-edge used in this method or the components, the beauty lies in the simplicty of concept. The inventor claims that a Telsa coil can locate buried land mines better than other methods used today because of the visible spark pattern it makes on the perimeter of buried metal objects. This makes it easy to identify what the object is before digging it. The outline of metal components in land mines and other UXO can be seen from the spark pattern. These patterns can be checked against images of metal parts known to exist in different land mines and UXO. Seems like an elegant way to locate buried metal objects.

HOW DOES IT WORK?
The basic concept is to mount a very high voltage/low current source on a vehicle and send the voltage to a probe to scan above the ground in front of the vehicle. If there is sufficient voltage and charge present on this metal probe, it will tend to send sparks to the corners of conductive objects in the proximity. Apparently the inventor expects to see the outline of any buried metal objects reproduced in the sparks shooting down from this 50,000 volt electrode.

How CAN YOU BUILD IT?
I suppose you need a Tesla coil, a generator to feed power to it, and a vehicle to move the apparatus across the ground were you are searching. I would think you would also want this apparatus designed to keep the operator safe from any possible explosions that may happen in the event he found something explosive beneath the spark patterns.

The patent shows the apparatus mounted on the back of a truck and a long insulated boom delivering the charge forward of the vehicle. The coil is delivering 50,000 volts or more with less than 1 amp (I assume 1 amp rarely happens if at all, as the power supply is only 3000 watts). The inventor also shows a TV camera positioned to view the sparks emitting from the probe, and he describes the possibility of wearing dark filter goggles to help see the sparks during daylight hours.

CAN IT BE SCALED DOWN?
Now, if a hobbyist wanted to build a scaled down version for simple treasure hunting, it could be scaled down to a small gas powered generator and a home-built Tesla coil mounted on a small cart like a golf cart or dolly, or even hand-held if proper precautions were taken. A metal pipe electrode could be used to form a probe out in front where you get a good view of any sparks shooting into the ground. A more substantial version could be mounted on a Quad off-road vehicle, or in a pickup truck. The idea is to look for spark patterns that outline the shape of a treasure chest, or a mason jar, or maybe a coin if the pattern is tight enough.

WHAT PARTS TO USE?
A 3500 watt gasoline generator should have more than enough power, but 2500 watts should also work for slightly less spark power. I imagine even a small hand-held version could use a modified automotive alternator and 2-stroke engine to deliver power if you don't need very big sparks for your hunting. The probe can be nearly any conductor strong enough to suspend in a transverse direction in front of where you want to search. The Tesla coil must be able to shoot out an abundance of visible sparks maybe a meter or more. This means it should consume about 1000 to 4000 watts of power supplied, depending on how much sparking you want to see on your probe.

There are many plans for building Tesla coils on the internet. To build one successfully requires tuning the primary and secondary circuits to resonance, as well as winding the coils to the correct sizes, installing suitable capacitors, and a spark gap or other method to create the primary oscillator. Fortunately, there are many websites that show all the details of construction.

Here is a web page where for $9 you can download plans to build a 3000 watt Tesla coil that makes 60 inch sparks, suitable for a probe as detailed in the patent: http://www.amazing1.com/tesla.htm

Here is a web page where a Tesla coil builder shows photos of a coil he built from the plan set above. http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/tesla.html

Here is another Tesla coil builder's page: http://hot-streamer.com/greg/frames.htm

Here are links to help build a Tesla coil: http://amasci.com/tesla/high_voltage3.html

May the sparks fly

[Seden]

You put alot of work into that explanation and drawings. Yes that would make for an interesting metal detector. I wonder if you could get anymore information by looking at the spectrum of the earth currents. what I envision is an untuned ferrite coil antenna mounted inside a u shaped faraday shield with the open side facing the earth to shield it from the spark discharge. You'd have to have it somewhat away from the spark but would be interesting in the frequency domain.

Randy

[J_Player]

Hi Seden,

When a High voltage Tesla coil discharges, it creates broadband radio noise of frequencies that are greatly influenced by the choice of capacitors and inductors, as well as the construction methods. The kind of coil used in this patent would be expected to generate radio noise far in excess of what is allowed by the FCC in the USA and most other radio regulating agencies around the world. So I would suspect this device is illegal for anyone who doesn't have a government permit to operate it. I expect that some governments would issue permits for the purpose of locating UXO under controlled conditions.

But assuming that it was permitted, here are some thoughts:
1. If you are intrested in studying the frequency spectrum of EM noise generated by the high voltage, it is not necessary to use the gross amount of power needed to see large sparks up to 2 meters long. A small, battery / inverter powered coil could probably do the job just as well. This does not necessarily need to be a Tesla coil, but a Tesla coil generally is more efficient. At lower power levels, the device may be within radio noise regulations.

2. When a spark discharges into the ground, one phenomenon that occurs is that molecules in the air and on substances at the nearby ground can become ionized, and possibly objects under the ground depending on the electrical properties of the object and the surrounding ground.

3. Another phenomenon that occurs is you have certainly created an artificial electric field anomaly in the air where the high voltage probe is located. There is a natural voltage gradient in the atmosphere approximately 100 v/meter that becomes more positive as you increase the altitude. This gradient is upset by the very existence of the high voltage coil and probe. And the high voltage will influence much more than the immediate location of the coil. A 50,000 volt probe may make a distortion in the natural atmospheric voltage gradient that extends as much as a mile. While this is probably not of interest to you, those who are interested in static fields and detecting ionization may be concerned.

4. When the sparks discharge into the ground, you can expect ground currents to flow from the location where the spark hits the ground to the ground lead on the high voltage coil. (This ground lead would probably be connected to a dragging strap conductor, or possibly a conductor rigged to the wheel of the vehicle to always make contact with the ground). In any case there would be some current flow through the ground to the coil ground lead. The path of this current flow Would be expected to be concentrated in a line, but could be spread and angled to several directions depending on the composition of the ground materials. The currents flowing in the ground would have some influence on your equipment to detect the spectrum, as it may provide a stronger signal when your sensor is closer to where the current is flowing, and aligned in a plane to best capture the magnetic component (I presume) of the noise.

5. There are 2 sources of radio noise, from the primary Tesla coil circuit and associated spark gap, and from the secondary coil circuit which sends sparks to the ground. Each of these circuits can be expected to emit broadband noise with several frequencies and harmonics to be very pronounced. When you are measuring the spectrum, you may decide to make corrections for known frequencies and their strengths. ie: you may want to use noise canceling methods such as subtracting the spectrum components known to exist when there is no target in the path.

Personally, I doubt you will find any correlation between the spectrum you measure and the presence of treasures. For one, the broadband noise of an arcing Tesla coil is enough to smother your ability to sense the minute signals that LRL operators are usually looking for. Secondly, some of the prerequisites for LRL-style frequency discrimination have been destroyed by the presence of the high voltage equipment and lightning bolts. If you are successful in canceling the non-target related noise, then I would think you have a chance of testing to see if the sensed spectrum correlates to buried targets.

But I may be wrong. I have never measured the broadband spectrum under high voltage discharge conditions near a buried target. And some LRL proponents may argue that a high voltage positive charge from a Tesla coil actually helps locate buried targets if the coil is not sparking.

It would be interesting to see what you find out. :nerd:

[Elie]

Why is this in remote sensing?

[Seden]

Elie,

Check out the thread about Andreas's LRL regarding Tesla coils.

J Player,yeah good point and I guess I'd have to pick off the transmit noise and subtract it from the signal + noise of the broadband loop.

To be honest though if I'm going to bother with a wide band noise, I'd just as soon use a white noise generator,amplify it and send it into the ground via ground rods. Now that I think should show a distinction for differant kinds of metals frequency wise and definately amplitude and phase wise. I would use a standard metal detector type loop to receive the signal with and into a miniture spectrum analyzer such as the handheld variety. Food for thought I spose.
Speaking of remote sensing,let's say their was a vein of gold,copper,or silver,I wonder how far you could pick up the variation in the white noise with perhaps an E-field antenna or a ferrite loop?
I remember reading in an old issue of the California Mining Journal from the early 60's, where a guy hooked up a meter to his AM radio,tuned it in-between stations and would watch for variations in the strength in the noise as he drove along to locate mineralized soil or was it a deposit or oil,I don't remember. Pretty clever though for a seat of the pants idea.

Randy

[J_Player]

Why is this in remote sensing?

It appears that Seden is attempting to discover a link between high voltage and long range locating. Perhaps he wonders if there is some frequency he can detect from a long distance with a spectrum analyzer while using equipment described in the patent. Why are you posting in remote sensing?


A number of experimenters have noted variations in AM broadcast frequency strength as they moved past large anomalies in the ground. A LRL which claims to work on this principle is manufactured by Vernell Electronics. They have units which send out a low-power AM radio signal in the UHF band, and use a loop antenna to survey the signal strength in a field in front of the transmitting antenna. The frequency they use is unknown, but Mike(Mont) says he read on a Chinese website that the VR1000B uses 400-3000 Mhz. I presume he means that the transmitter is adjustable to a series of preset frequencies in that range. Carl has one of these machines which he claims is a piece of crap. Dell Winders says he found the Vernell Electronics locators worked successfully for him on a boat, airplane and land searching until "operating conditions deteriorated affecting the reliability of the instrument making it impractical for my use in 1988". Dell never described what operating conditions deteriorated.

The Vernell Electronics machines come to mind because they are looking at AM signals as you intend to do, and they have defined a range of frequencies where they expect to find results, rather than a white noise source. Of particular interest is that Vernell uses a coil to broadcast the UHF signal rather than an antenna. He also uses a coil which is slightly smaller than a sheet of paper to survey the signal strength. In his newer VR5000, the coil is replaced by the "scan gun", which is probably a smaller coil and possibly other apparatus inside a plastic housing.

Note the range of frequencies Vernell uses are basically the UHF range, not the AM broadcast range. I suspect this is because the size of a UHF wave is closer to the target size than AM broadcast waves, and possibly this makes it easier to pinpoint a buried metal object. While Vernell sells locators that operate in the UHF range, I have read about experimenters who noted signal strength variations in the AM broadcast range as well as the FM broadcast range and short wave bands. I suppose these experimenters did not investigate the UHF band because this band had limited use at the time they did their experiments (they didn't have a spare adjustable UHF receiver lying around back in those days). Also, Dell has stated "conditions deteriorated". Perhaps you would have a more difficult time to detect the signal strength today than the experimenters back in the 60s. Consider that today, we are inundated with UHF noise that comes from everything from cell phones, microwave ovens and wireless LANs to radar installations. There are also references to environmental changes that happened about the time Dell described.

Be sure to look at the Vernell instruction manual section and the photos to get ideas how he uses his LRL equipment. Here is the website for Vernell Electronics products: http://www.vrdetectors.com/products.cfm

Also check this forum thread for more details: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?t=13089

[Seden]

J-Player,first of all I'm surprised at you not reading carefully my post. As I mentioned to Elie, I'm trying to find a rationale of how Andreas LRL works with his Tesla Coil antennas.

Also I wanted to make a correction on my post,you can't measure the phase of white noise and the other thing I posted about subtracting the white noise source from the signal+noise of the untuned ferrite loop would be difficult at best due to not only the delay time differences but the characteristics of both lines far as their frequency response,oops! My mistake Gentlemen.

But yes this thread very much so belongs in Remote Sensing. If you haven't read through the thread on Andreas's circuit now would be a great time,lot's of discussion,then come back and let's dialog.

Randy

[Elie]

Check out the thread about Andreas's LRL regarding Tesla coils.



So why not put it there? The patent itself has nothing to do with long range locators.

[Seden]

Nicht verstehst du mein Englisch? I know you just screwing with me,trying to get my goat eh? Ok do you want it in English or Deutsch? I SAID THE REASON FOR THIS THREAD WAS TO FLESH OUT THE RATIONALE FOR ANDREAS DESIGN and also I thought it was kinda interesting to see someone(Lockheed) actually using HV to metal detect along with my other thoughts. Also unlike J Player's not understanding my intentions-I AM NOT TRYING TO DESIGN AN LRL-GOT IT:angry: ?!
Look Elie,let's just agree that we can all post and share our thoughts and ideas freely. It's always good to do this as you learn things from others like I have with Max or Carl,and as you discuss ideas sometimes you see something you wouldn't of had you not discussed this with other technical people.
There's alot of things I'd like to try out and for me a long range locator would be if I could stand back 10,20 or 50 feet and be able to detect the target. What I'm looking for are ideas for a type of system whereby I can survey a large placer deposit and locate the spot where the heavies are (Geological term in the case of placer gold deposit where the largest pieces of gold would be in an Ancient River Deposit).
I certainly would welcome your techical expertise otherwise I am not posting anymore on this thread :nono: .

Randy

[J_Player]

Hi Seden,
J-Player,first of all I'm surprised at you not reading carefully my post. As I mentioned to Elie, I'm trying to find a rationale of how Andreas LRL works with his Tesla Coil antennas.
Actually I did read the posts about Andrea's LRL that were presented with photos by Esteban. I figured you made a mistake, as there is no Tesla coil in Andrea's LRL. The circuitry which was posted shows a radio transmitter sending power to an antenna at 800 khz, and receiver that filters the antenna signal before detecting, then buffers and amplifies the signal and sends it to a field intensity meter and an audio circuit. But there is no circuitry or apparatus that could be connected to a Tesla coil in any way. I have no clue why Estaban made a comment about Tesla coils in that thread, but it was certainly unrelated to Andrea's LRL. There are also missing parts of the circuitry according to Andreas which include a preamp stage for the antenna, a dummy load circuit, and detail drawings of the antenna. None of these missing drawings includes any components of a Tesla coil.

The device Esteban displayed as Andreas project is a transmitter and receiver, similar to other LRL devices like the Vernell Electronics VR5000 and others. In the case of Andreas LRL, he is not willing to divulge details of how to build it and tune it, or any other details of the principle of operation. Therefore we can only conclude it is an 800 khz radio transmitter and reciever that works in some mysterious way to locate treasures. We know approximately the same information about the Vernell Electronics LRL devices.

The concept of broadcasting white noise and observing the changes in spectrum that is picked up with a receiver is a similar idea to broadcasting a fixed frequency and sensing signal strength in different locations. The white noise advantage is you have more frequencies broadcast, and are limited only by the receiver in what you can pick up. A major disadvantage is you don't have the ability to tune to a known frequency and continually follow an uninterrupted signal to see where its strength becomes stronger or weaker. You are depending on random occurrences of a given frequency. If I wanted to investigate what frequencies could be picked up more prominantly in the presence of a buried target, I would prefer to have good control of the broadcast frequency. That is, I would prefer to use a transmitter whose frequency could be adjusted over a range while tuning a receiver to follow the transmitted frequency. It may take several transmitters to cover a band such as the UHF band, But still I would prefer this method, not only because of the better control of transmitter frequency, but also because of the possibilities of observing things such as phase angle changes, fluctuations in frequency as well as amplitude, finding harmonics that appear only with certain frequencies, and because of the ease of dealing with known radio technology.

This is not to say that there is some valuable information to be derived from observing broadband noise changes in the presence of a buried target. I may be overlooking important aspects of a white noise signal, but my thinking is that the end result would be to find some specific frequencies that behave differently than neighboring frequencies. And I think if this is the result that you will find, it should be much easier to discover using standard radio transmitter/receiver methods rather than white noise spectrum analyzing.

As far as using a very high voltage for long range sensing, the most useful application of a Tesla coil that comes to mind is building up an artificial electric field which is many times stronger than the natural atmospheric field. A properly designed network of Tesla coils could convert an unsearchable acreage to prime hunting condition for those who want to use static and ionic sensors. Certain atmospheric conditions must exist in order for this scheme to work, but they would work in 80% of the earth's land masses when weather conditions permitted. Also the design, configuration and operation of these coils must be done in a way that does not introduce new interference into the field to be searched. In theory, such a network of high voltage coils and auxiliary apparatus would effectively counteract many of the "atmospheric interference" outages that prevent LRLs from working.

But to use a Tesla coil as a component of a hand-held LRL is a different story. There may be a few home brew Tesla coil based LRLs in existence, but I found little information on them. There is one post in this forum which shows a rare Tesla coil LRL for sale here: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?t=11932&highlight=tesla


For Elie, if you are really disturbed about our LRL conversation referencing an unrelated patent on a Tesla coil, consider that radio transmitters and receivers are not related to any LRL patents that I know of, yet this forum is full of conversations and schematics showing radio transmitter and receiver methods. There are also posts in this forum about who won the soccer championships, not exactly related to long range locating. If you truly believe we shouldn't be able to talk about long range locating using a Tesla coil, you can click the little red triangle at the top of the post and plead for Carl to remove our posts. Or perhaps you can reveal some other unknown purpose why you came here? Certainly not to contribute anything of value to the topic of sensing white noise from a Tesla coil?

[Seden]

That is true regarding white noise not being able to get phase information from it. The post I had in mind by Esteban was on the first page of Andreas LRL,post#24 dated July 4th 02:51 AM where he refers about a Tesla Coil drawing he did which as you pointed out is not shown in the thread at all. So he goes on to describe the Tesla coil and how to tune it,etc.

Here's a another idea that would solve the lack of phase information and that would be to use a swept carrier which would be very simple to implement with a single 74hc4046 by taking the carrier from the VCO amplifying it and send it to the transmit coil and the receive coils output to the input of the PLL.

But I tell you J-Player,I'm really interested how you can determine what mineral or metal you have by the phase differences by using Spectral Induced Polarization whereby you look at the phase difference between a couple sub-audio frequencies (typically .01hz and 1hz). What determines the phase difference is the size of the mineral/metal grains. The downside is as you probably know, the naturally occuring noise really takes off below 1hz.

Thank you for contributing your technical thoughts to this thread,greatly appreciate it and learn alot.

Randy

[Elie]

SEDEN, IF YOU ARE WRITING ABOUT THIS WITH REGARD TO ANDREAS, THEN WHY DID YOU NOT PUT IT IN THE THREAD ABOUT ANDREAS? THE PATENT IS NOT FOR A "LONG RANGE LOCATOR," AND THEREFORE SHOULD NOT BE IN THE REMOTE SENSING SECTION, UNLESS YOU ARE WRITING ABOUT HOW THE PATENT RELATES TO LRL "RESEARCH." OH, WAIT. YOU CONVIENTLY NEGLECTED TO MENTION THAT YOU WERE WRITING ABOUT HOW THE PATENT RELATED TO LRL "RESEARCH," AND THEN CHEWED ME OUT FOR WONDERING WHY YOU STARTED A WHOLE NEW THREAD, INSTEAD OF PUTTING THIS IN THE OTHER THREAD, WHERE ANDREAS IS ACTUALLY DISCUSSED.
J PLAYER, SOCCER CHAMPIONSHIPS DO NOT BELONG IN ANY OTHER SECTION OF THIS FORUM ANY MORE THAN THEY BELONG IN THIS SECTION, BUT SONAR GOES IN THE SONAR SECTION, MAGNETOMETERS GO IN THE MAGNETOMETER SECTION, ETC.

MANCHE SCHACHPARTIEN SPIELEN KEINE VIER, SONDERN SECHS PFERDE MIT.

[J_Player]

SEDEN, IF YOU ARE WRITING ABOUT THIS WITH REGARD TO ANDREAS, THEN WHY DID YOU NOT PUT IT IN THE THREAD ABOUT ANDREAS? THE PATENT IS NOT FOR A "LONG RANGE LOCATOR," AND THEREFORE SHOULD NOT BE IN THE REMOTE SENSING SECTION, UNLESS YOU ARE WRITING ABOUT HOW THE PATENT RELATES TO LRL "RESEARCH." OH, WAIT. YOU CONVIENTLY NEGLECTED TO MENTION THAT YOU WERE WRITING ABOUT HOW THE PATENT RELATED TO LRL "RESEARCH," AND THEN CHEWED ME OUT FOR WONDERING WHY YOU STARTED A WHOLE NEW THREAD, INSTEAD OF PUTTING THIS IN THE OTHER THREAD, WHERE ANDREAS IS ACTUALLY DISCUSSED.

Errr.. Elie, if you actually read above, you will discover what the rest of us discovered. Andreas never mentioned anything about Tesla coils, nor does his project have anything to do with Tesla coils. If Seden was to move his posts to that thread, they would be irrelevant and would be percieved as an attempt to hijack that thread, just as you are percieved as trying to hijack this one. In my humble opinion, Seden's posts and conversation belongs right here where he posted them.

J PLAYER, SOCCER CHAMPIONSHIPS DO NOT BELONG IN ANY OTHER SECTION OF THIS FORUM ANY MORE THAN THEY BELONG IN THIS SECTION, BUT SONAR GOES IN THE SONAR SECTION, MAGNETOMETERS GO IN THE MAGNETOMETER SECTION, ETC.

I am sorry I don't have any sonar posts to put in the sonar forum at this time, or magnetometer posts to put in the magnetometer forum at this time, etc. Perhaps you can solve the problem of putting posts there by posting something in those forums yourself. If you are really disturbed about soccer championships not belonging in any section of this forum, then I suggest you hunt down these soccer posts and click on the little red triangle to bring them to the attention of Carl, and beg him to remove them. Neither I nor Seden is able to delete or move posts to your satisfaction. Only Carl can do this.

ps. While you are at it, perhaps you could ask Carl to delete your posts, as they have nothing to do with remote sensing technology.

[Seden]

Here's Estebans post on the Andreas LRL I was thinking of from the first page of the thread:
Esteban, please do not use Tesla coil any more!

RObert, do you have rights in it? The Tesla coil drawing I post is: a kind of HV coil type Tesla and other secondary coil. The both coils are very critic in quality of winding, no defect can have, must be exceptional, turn by turn, with various covers of barnish. Adjusted by Hertz resonator (via spark).
Attached Imageshttp://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2411&stc=1&d=1183517322

So now you can read for yourselves where he specifically mentions "Tesla Coils".

Hope this helps clear things up!

Randy

[J_Player]

Hi Seden,

Esteban described classic Tesla coil construction using a high voltage primary, with critical construction methods and tuning for resonance with a spark gap. Because he describes his diagram of a primary coil as a high voltage coil, it seems unlikely he is referring to this coil as part of Andreas project. There really is no high voltage in Andreas project, unless the missing antenna preamp circuit he described included a high voltage primary driver and the missing antenna details included a miniature Tesla coil.

This seems unlikely. But if it is true, then the only trick to completing the missing design elements of the project is to construct a small Tesla coil and driver that will fit in the tube at the antenna. This also means doing the critical tuning to achieve resonance. While Esteban's diagram shows a single turn coil with a spark gap, I would think it more likely to use a FET than a spark gap for the primary oscillator in this application. There are still no details about how this Tesla coil would interface to the circuitry for the transmitting antenna. The simplest interface would be to send the 800 khz to a preamp that increased the voltage and had a power amplifier, and then use the output as a power source to run the primary side of the Tesla coil instead of using a 50/60 hz main power source. Even after this preamp stage, the power is limited to the battery capacity, and would not allow much wattage in a Tesla coil. If this Tesla coil is used in Andreas transmitting antenna, it raises question of what is it's purpose. I doubt it is intended to produce sparks. Do you suppose it is intended to create a high voltage for the purpose of increasing the local static charge in the air where the treasure hunting is done?

Do you think Esteban described a Tesla coil to be used in Andreas project? Was he telling us Andreas project is a long range sensor with a static field augmenter, or is it simply a RF transmitter/receiver type LRL?

[Seden]

J-Player,

I emailed Esteban for further claification and he didn't want to say much as it was Andreas project but yes the Tesla coil is part of the system and I was told by Andreas by private email that he would supply further details once I had actually built the circuit. So that's all I know guy's and thank you for your input to this thread. Time to end it I would think.

Randy

[J_Player]

I would suggest this is a good project to build if it actually will locate targets from a long distance. The circuitry is easy, with the only difficult part to be constructing the Tesla coil. It requires very careful coil winding methods with several coats of varnish over the secondary coil, and also some painstaking tuning. The exact positioning of this coil is probably important to properly tune it as well.

I seriously doubt that Esteban or Andreas would mislead you in the ability of this device, and it looks like the most promising LRL project I have seen in this forum. I would suspect more useful for treasure hunting than the SIP project you are considering.

Best of luck,
J_Player

[ANDREAS]

Dear Seden. Regularly you should me ask from details for the manufacture. I said last e-mail, I will help you, other, you did not send answer. I think is your error. They is last time where you I will help you. My project they is genuine instrument and not LRL:angry: . I use really coils Tesla transmitter - receiver;) and I detect phenomenon where sorry..... I can't present. All began from study of bibliography 1950-1960 and a Russian manufacture (amazing for me). After this I drew this machine that it finds (100% only old burried nails) in distances above 50metres. Now I know beginnings that and I use for detection of other metals. Afterwards however from stubids were presented here, I am compelled to stop. I believe that you have certain elements that can you help in research. Last one, the frequencies they is not critical. Now I think of manufacturing same with frequency tranSmitter and receiver 800-900MHZ and size (a parcel cigarettes)

[Max]

Dear Seden. Regularly you should me ask from details for the manufacture. I said last e-mail, I will help you, other, you did not send answer. I think is your error. They is last time where you I will help you. My project they is genuine instrument and not LRL:angry: . I use really coils Tesla transmitter - receiver;) and I detect phenomenon where sorry..... I can't present. All began from study of bibliography 1950-1960 and a Russian manufacture (amazing for me). After this I drew this machine that it finds (100% only old burried nails) in distances above 50metres. Now I know beginnings that and I use for detection of other metals. Afterwards however from stubids were presented here, I am compelled to stop. I believe that you have certain elements that can you help in research. Last one, the frequencies they is not critical. Now I think of manufacturing same with frequency tranSmitter and receiver 800-900MHZ and size (a parcel cigarettes)


Hi Andreas,
"All began from study of bibliography 1950-1960 and a Russian manufacture (amazing for me)."

Semyon Davidovitch Kirlian ? :rolleyes:
...
from a website out here

"Kirlian Photography is a process of recording the corona discharge between a subject (in this case a human finger) and a high voltage, low current electrode. In 1961, Semyon Davidovitch and Valentina Kirlian published a paper in the Russian Journal of Scientific and Applied Photography where they described the process now called Kirlian Photography."

If your system uses corona effects it's a "kirlian-LRL"! :D or not ?

Best regards,
Max

[ANDREAS]

Hi Max.
Intelligent thought;) but No!
Exist a lot of reports in "burried" files. I have made trial Kirlian and Theremin circuits, but, nothing particular.
Also regular connections Tesla coils don't work. They is few.... insane the application:) .
regards