Mineoro tests: What's really going on

[Carl-NC]

A few years ago I obtained a Mineoro PDC205 on loan. I found that it could not detect gold, but that it would beep occasionally, in a seemingly random way. I got permission to dissect it. I found that it had no circuitry or sensor that corresponded to Mineoro claims of detecting ions. Instead, I found a loop antenna and regenerative receiver circuit, indicating an ability to detect standard RF radiowaves. I had to return the unit before fully investigating this.

I now own a Mineoro FG80. It is advertised as being able to detect fresh gold, again through ionic means. I have fully demonstrated, 100% of the time, under any conditions, that it definitely WILL NOT detect fresh gold. It has also failed to detect buried gold that is approaching 4 yrs old.

Like the PDC205, the FG80 seems to just beep in a rather random way. It is possible, by carefully adjusting the threshold while standing in one location, to get the unit to consistently beep in a particular direction, or a particular point on the ground. But if I move a few meters away, there is no consistency with the prior signal direction, even when re-tweaking the threshold. Directions are helter-skelter.

I have an invisible dog fence. It works by pulsing a low current through a buried wire. Metal detectors easily pick this up as EM interference, so when testing detectors, I turn it off. The other day I took the FG80 outside, before turning off the fence, and discovered that it would rather easily detect the buried wire. With the threshold set low, I could hold the FG80 horizontally close to the ground and precisely track the buried wire. In anticipation of a suggestion, the voltage produced on this wire is much too low to cause ionization.

I propose that the Mineoro locators are detecting EM signals, not ionization. Everywhere around us, we are bathed in EM signals of all frequencies. It is simple to build a receiver that will detect these signals and beep when a threshold is exceeded. EM signal strength can vary with direction due to obstacles and multipath. If a directional antenna is used (such as a loop), a threshold-based receiver can be made to detect a signal in certain directions but not others.

Next: tests that confirm my theory.

- Carl

[hung]

I have fully demonstrated, 100% of the time, under any conditions, that it definitely WILL NOT detect fresh gold.

No, you didn't. If you don't encounter the right conditions on humidity , hot environment, etc. you will not detect fresh gold with your present device. That's why the GIG was added. To be able to make the detector has a more consistent basis on this. Although you won't be able to detect fresh gold in rainy days, it will do it in about any sunny day.

With a similar detector as the one you own, I was able to pick my gold ring from 15 feet away on a particular day. Next day I could not. So as some skeptics here erroneously think I'm somewhat involved with Mineoro and you pose as an adversary, who do you think they will believe?
Fine, I don't care. Never will. Reality is one and only.

It has also failed to detect buried gold that is approaching 4 yrs old.

How many times will it be necessary to tell you the same thing over and over until you input data?
Gold should be at least 10 years old buried to be detectable in the usual way.

Like the PDC205, the FG80 seems to just beep in a rather random way. It is possible, by carefully adjusting the threshold while standing in one location, to get the unit to consistently beep in a particular direction, or a particular point on the ground. But if I move a few meters away, there is no consistency with the prior signal direction, even when re-tweaking the threshold. Directions are helter-skelter.

I have an invisible dog fence. It works by pulsing a low current through a buried wire. Metal detectors easily pick this up as EM interference, so when testing detectors, I turn it off. The other day I took the FG80 outside, before turning off the fence, and discovered that it would rather easily detect the buried wire. With the threshold set low, I could hold the FG80 horizontally close to the ground and precisely track the buried wire. In anticipation of a suggestion, the voltage produced on this wire is much too low to cause ionization.

I propose that the Mineoro locators are detecting EM signals, not ionization. Everywhere around us, we are bathed in EM signals of all frequencies. It is simple to build a receiver that will detect these signals and beep when a threshold is exceeded. EM signal strength can vary with direction due to obstacles and multipath. If a directional antenna is used (such as a loop), a threshold-based receiver can be made to detect a signal in certain directions but not others.

Next: tests that confirm my theory.

- Carl

Carl, what kind of scientist are you? I simply can't believe that I read the things you stated above !

Of course, there's a RF portion inside the detector which will eventually suffer from those kind of interferences. But you have to understand once and for all that the FG80 is built to detect ionic and electrostatic fields in the nano level. So altough your dog fence or whatever may appear to have a low ionization , it may be more than sufficient for the FG to pick it up.

Finally, if you are really serious about testing this device , which now I really have strong doubts, take it to a region where you suspect there's gold buried. Away from the city with no electrical interferences so it will not affect your testings.
AND NEVER GO ALONE. TAKE SOMEONE WITH YOU TO CONFIRM OR NOT YOUR CONCLUSIONS. If you go alone it will always be your word alone with NO CHANCE OF REFUTATION if you ever wish to report back as i know you are starving for it.
Take SOMEONE LIKE DELL WINDERS WITH YOU since he knows a lot of places where might exist gold, have a lot of experience on this and he already tested the FG himself.
If you decide to do it alone by yourself, you show you don't have the desire to conduct an honest and suitable test.

[Carl-NC]

Experiment #1.

Since the FG80 was adept at sensing a pulsed dog fence, I set up my Sandshark PI detector on a bench to see if the FG80 would detect the pulsed field. With the PI coil positioned vertically, and the FG80 held facing the coil (i.e., parallel), I varied the FG80 threshold setting and found the distances at which it would respond to the PI field:


Sensitivity Distance
375 12 ft
350 10 ft
325 9 ft
300 8 ft
250 7 ft
200 6 ft
150 5 ft
100 4 ft
50 3 ft
10 2 ft
5 1 ft


This clearly shows that as the sensitivity is lowered, the EM field must be stronger to enable detection.

If the FG80 is truly detecting EM using a loop antenna, then I would expect the device to show some amount of directivity. This can be, and was, tested.

With the sensitivity set to 250, the FG80 detects the PI field at 7 feet, when the FG80 is pointed at the PI coil. But when the FG80 is turned 90 degrees, or orthogonal, to the PI coil, detection does not occur until 2.5 feet away. This was repeated for a threshold of 50, and detection went from 3 feet (parallel) to less than 6 inches (orthogonal). The null with orthogonal alignment clearly shows the directionality that is expected from a loop antenna. This technique, in fact, is used in two-box detectors to achieve induction balance. And, anyone with a metal detector can demonstrate for themselves that sensitivity is highest along the coil's axis, and lowest on the edge of the coil.

Another prediction from the use of a loop antenna is that sensitivity is identical on both the front side and back side of the loop. Again, this can be easily demonstrated with a metal detector coil. The FG80 was tested again, but with the back side of the unit held facing the PI coil. Results were the same as the front side.

Although all of this very strongly points to EM detection, I nevertheless considered the possibility that it could be ions. However, the voltage produced by the Sandshark coil (~100v) is insufficient for ionizing anything in the air. Even so, if ions are being generated by the Sandshark and detected by the FG80, then I would expect that the instant I turn off the Sandshark, the FG80 should continue detecting ions for a short time until they disperse. With the FG80 placed a foot from the coil and the sensitivity set to 300, the instant I turned off the Sandshark, the FG80 ceased responding. There was no detection lag.

This set of experiments verify that the Mineoro FG80 is, in fact, detecting EM fields. There is absolutely no question whatsoever about this.

More to come...

- Carl

[hung]

Carl,

There's nothing special on what you're doing. It only shows how the FG's loop antenna behaves in the presence of a strong EM field. We all know this for eons. All predictable. So what?
The FG is not detecting EM fields, it's been AFFECTED by it.

Since you apparently forgot everything Mineoro states and all the topics we discussed here over the years, I will have to refresh your mind.

Mineoro claims that every noble metal, in this case gold, which is buried for more than 10 years release an ionic and electrostatic field which is detectable by their detectors, in this case the FG80.
So, it will EVENTUALLY detect silver, copper and bronze as I have already demonstrated showing pictures of objects I detected with my PDC210 in the topic 'weekend relics'. Those however can only be detected at short a distance. As the ionic chamber is built with a gold leaf inside it, gold detection can happen at much greater distances.

So in order to trully test the device you MUST take it over to the field and check for gold detection. What you are doing at home is useless and pointless. Since it's got a perimeter antenna, it will obviously be affected by a EM field. The knob calibration only turns it more or less sensitive to it.

Do what I told you. Call Dell Winders and go to the field. Forget home useless tests.

[hung]

Even so, if ions are being generated by the Sandshark and detected by the FG80, then I would expect that the instant I turn off the Sandshark, the FG80 should continue detecting ions for a short time until they disperse. With the FG80 placed a foot from the coil and the sensitivity set to 300, the instant I turned off the Sandshark, the FG80 ceased responding. There was no detection lag.

This set of experiments verify that the Mineoro FG80 is, in fact, detecting EM fields. There is absolutely no question whatsoever about this.

More to come...

- Carl

You did not understand what I said above. I did not mean you would be detecting ions in your dog fence case. I said the ions would be there only in a nano level.
Don't expect to detect any ions in your experiment's case because first, only gold ions will be detected, otherwise I would be detecting any ion whatsoever from far away.
And most important: Your PI EM field will destroy any ions which may appear. That's why in the field, detecting with the Mineoros, if you turn a regular EM MD on, you will make the ionic field vanish if for instance is not a very big target, making the locating process impossible until the fields are fully recovered.

[Morris_jo]

Hi Carl, Hung :

Still mineoro story goes on and on ............!!!! . Hung : thnks for sending the Dis-300 manual, it`s not organised or even well explained !! .

Carl: Did you find any buried nobel metal (Gold,Silver) at any depth by using LRL ( Mineoro ) ??

Hung: I am still waiting for the Dis-300 Field tests ? also, as you are now in brazil, will you be able to provide some of your finds by mineoro devices ?




Regrads

[hung]

Hung: I am still waiting for the Dis-300 Field tests ? also, as you are now in brazil, will you be able to provide some of your finds by mineoro devices ?
Regrads

Actually a member of my team is the one who will test it, probably in 1 or 2 weeks when he'll travel to Sao Paulo.

About my Mineoro findings (the ones released to be shown), I already posted some pictures in past threads. Do a search and you will find them.

[Qiaozhi]

There's nothing special on what you're doing. It only shows how the FG's loop antenna behaves in the presence of a strong EM field. We all know this for eons. All predictable. So what?
The FG is not detecting EM fields, it's been AFFECTED by it.

As the loop antenna is basically detecting unwanted EM interference, then why is it there in the first place?
Presumably the ion chamber is all that is required for the detection of gold ions. :???:

[hung]

As the loop antenna is basically detecting unwanted EM interference, then why is it there in the first place?
Presumably the ion chamber is all that is required for the detection of gold ions. :???:

Until we come to know (if we ever do) what phenomena exactly Damasio and Alonso discovered we will be only speculating here. I have a scientific mind and don't like speculations. I already stated I believe I understand the phenomena to some extent but will not discuss it due to ethics.

As to your question, I believe the loop (perimeter) antenna plays a role when first detecting the target at long range thus being integrated with the ionic chamber for this.

[Clondike Clad]

Carl Keep up the testing we all want to know .
Hung I am also learning from you as well.
Who know this thing may work at detecting RF but at this time Carl can't detect Gold.
Carl ask Hung for tips on testing this unit.

:shocked:

[Qiaozhi]

Until we come to know (if we ever do) what phenomena exactly Damasio and Alonso discovered we will be only speculating here. I have a scientific mind and don't like speculations. I already stated I believe I understand the phenomena to some extent but will not discuss it due to ethics.

As to your question, I believe the loop (perimeter) antenna plays a role when first detecting the target at long range thus being integrated with the ionic chamber for this.
Without trying to speculate too much - the loop (perimeter) antenna seems an almost obvious way of remotely triggering the device during a demonstration to fool an unwary punter into believing that it really works. :frown:

[Clondike Clad]

RF detections could fool someone into thinking this thing works.
I HOPE HUNG CAN TELL WHY THIS CIRCUIT IS NEEDED FOR ION DETECTION.
cARL IS VERY GOOD AT CIRCUITS AND WHEN HE GET INSIDE THE FG80 WE WILL KNOW MORE.
THIS DETECTOR SHOULD WORK FOR THE USER WHO LEARN HOW TO USE IT.
i FEEL CARL IS NO DUMMIE WITH DETECTORS.
HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO RUN THE FG80.............................................. ....
If he can't detect gold with it I know i can't .
looking more like the same old scam to me.:frown:

[Carl-NC]

Carl ask Hung for tips on testing this unit.


I have done so. Hung suggested the following test:

"Inside your car if well calibrated, the detector should beep when you press or release the brake light. An optimal setting would be beeping when pressing and releasing the pedal. If it does without 'going crazy' it's sensitive enough."

So I tried this test. Ergo, time for...

Experiment #2.

Sure enough, with the Mineoro inside the car, and the threshold properly adjusted, the FG80 will beep when I depress the brake pedal, and beep again when I release the pedal.

So the question is, why does it beep?

There are two obvious possibilities. If Mineoro's claims of ionic detection are correct, then the act of pressing and releasing the brake must somehow produce ions. Since the brake includes a switch for activating the brake light, we could suppose that the opening and closing of the switch might produce an electrical arc, which could generated ions. This would suggest that moving the FG80 farther from the switch (at the top of the brake pedal, under the dash) would make detection more difficult. Not so. In fact, I found that I could place the FG80 close to the rear brake light, outside the car, and just as easily get a response to the braking.

This brings up a second possibility: transient EM fields. On to the lab.

On the lab bench, I connected a variable power supply to a 10-ohm resistor via 1-meter leads. The power supply has a disable button which
enables/disables the output voltage. This is done electronically, not through switch contacts, so there is no chance of arcing.

With the FG80 sensitivity set to 300 and the supply set to 12V, I toggled the disable button and the FG80 would beep both at the enable and the disable transition. I then gradually reduced the supply, all the way down to 500mV, and could still get responses from the FG80 depending on how close the leads are placed to the FG80. That is, as I turned down the supply voltage, I would need to move the leads closer to the FG80 to still effect a beep.

What does this mean? As with the brake light test, toggling the power supply output produces a transient current, both at the OFF-to-ON transition as well as the ON-to-OFF transition. Transient currents generate transient EM fields. The Mineoro is detecting these transient EM fields. This is absolutely proven, beyond any doubt whatsoever, by the lab test in which detection depended on current strength through the wire and distance from the wire. Even transient currents down to 50mA were sufficient to detect from close range. The lab test also had no chance of producing ions, as there were no switch contacts involved.

All of this is precisely consistent with the Sandshark test, which involve a continuously pulsed EM field and, again, no ions.

- Carl

[J_Player]

There are two obvious possibilities. If Mineoro's claims of ionic detection are correct, then the act of pressing and releasing the brake must somehow produce ions. Since the brake includes a switch for activating the brake light, we could suppose that the opening and closing of the switch might produce an electrical arc, which could generated ions. This would suggest that moving the FG80 farther from the switch (at the top of the brake pedal, under the dash) would make detection more difficult. Not so. In fact, I found that I could place the FG80 close to the rear brake light, outside the car, and just as easily get a response to the braking.

If the brake test shows the FG80 is sensing transient EM fields, then a simple experiment may further demonstrate this: Consider that in a 12vdc circuit switching power to a light bulb with a resistance filament, there are usually several spikes when the power is first applied to the filament. These spikes are caused by the minute arcing as the switch contacts close. As voltage is suddenly applied to the light filament, a surge of current can be expected for a small fraction of a second, then as the filament heats up, its resistance increases and the current drops and levels off to a constant amount. Releasing the power usually does not cause this large rush of current. Now some filaments are wound into a coil shape rather than a strand of wire. These bulbs with a coil shaped filament could be expected to send out more intense transient EM fields when the power is applied. Furthermore, I would suspect the field would be directional, due to the coil shape where the transient current flows.

A simple test would be to switch on and off a DC bulb that has a coil shaped filament. Then test the FG80 for beeping at different angles to the axis of the filament coil. I would also take note of the orientation of the coils inside the FG80 to maximize this effect. If I am correct, we might find that the FG80 also has directional properties in sensing a DC light turning on.

[Dell Winders]

O.K. so you have concluded that the Mineoro, does not detect Gold Ions, but you have determined it is sensitive to very minute EM fields, and they can even be detected from a distance.

After all these years of making false reports based on assumption it looks like you are finally getting your first clue into the workings of LRLs. WoW!

So why bother with all the mumbo jumbo crap, and just run the Mineoro in the field and see if it detects Gold?

As I have said, it will only work during favorable operating conditions, the same as all other LRL's. Have you been smart enough to figure when those favorable operating conditions are present, and know when the Mineoro, or any LRL will work, and when it will not work? No? I didn't think so. Dell

[Clondike Clad]

dETECTING RF OR RMF CAN BE DONE WITH A SIMPLE CIRCUIT.:nono:
wITH THE FG80 THIS COULD BE A NEW TWIST FOR A SCAM.
NOW GOLD ION DETECTIONS I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY PROOF.
HOW STUPID DO SOME PEOPLE THANK WE ARE.:angry:
KEEP TESTING CARL YOU ARE DOING A GOOD JOB:D

[hung]

Carl, it seems you don't really wish to perform REAL tests but instead you keep attempting to make the FG80 fit in your theory of working principle which is false.

The FG80 works by detecting electrostatic and ionic fields from long time buried gold. You have to accept this fact.
With a simple procedure you can check that an electric field even diminshed can be detected. No need to rely on all the mumbo jumbo tests above. Simply get a 1.5 ordinary battery and short circuit it. The FG will beep from about 3 to 4 feet away.
The breaklight procedure is to check whether the detector is well calibrated or not. It's sensing the electric fields as it would if you aproach it from a simple light switch outlet in the wall of your home. Although there might be EM presence as in fluroescent lights, it's not detecting it as you think.
The FG80 is more resistant to electrical interference than the PDC210.
Inside the car I cannot point the PDC to the ignition coil's direction or it will go crazy. Due to the proximitiy position.
Now, with your car engine on, position your detector from about 20 feet with the usual calibration. I bet it won't beep. It's not DETECTING EM FIELDS. But if in place of your car, there was a relatively large mass of gold long time buried, you would be picking it up from at least 10 times this distance.

In july of 2006 I was in an expedition to locate gold veins for farmers in the central region of Brazil. One day I arrived at a farm which seemed to be located in the end of the world. In the middle of nothing. No electric lights, antennas, nada. It was night about 8:30 PM, When we were unpacking outside, I decided just for fun get the PDC210 (did not have the FG80 at the time) and scanned 360 deg the environment. Suddenly strong beeps came from one particular direction. As it was night we had to wait till next morning when we found out we detected a gold vein 400 feet away in a small hill which now gold is being extracted. Since the region is rich of natural gold the atmosphere is vastly ionized making detection even easier.

Accept this fact. There'snothing to do with EM although the detector might be affected by it. For the tenth time or more, the detector works by detecting electrostatic and ionic fields. This is true. Mineoro's explanation is true.
Accept this fact.
Please, for the last time. GO OUT TO DETECT GOLD. Stop playing with the detector at home. Go for the gold. Dell Winders is there not so far from you. GO WITH HIM and see for yourself. Otherwise this thread will become empty discussions as many others here, trying to speculate on this on and on and on...

[Clondike Clad]

Loss of atomic weight releases atoms of the matter in infinitesimal volume. The magnitude of that loss is not measurable
How do you know this if you can't measure it.
How do you detect it if you can't measure the released atoms
Atoms OF GOLD IN THE AIR.
SOUNDS LIKE A PACK OF BULL TO ME.:angry:
KEEP ON TESTING CARL.:D

[Carl-NC]

If I am correct, we might find that the FG80 also has directional properties in sensing a DC light turning on.

I did this with the Sandshark. I found the FG80 had max detection along the facial axis, in either direction. It had minimum detectability along the perimeter (edge-on). Detection range would increase as the FG80 is rotated from edge-on to directly facing. This is precisely what I would expect from a loop antenna.

- Carl

[Dell Winders]

Wow! Sounds like you are on to something. I eagerly wait to hear of your new discoveries. Dell

[J_Player]

Now since Carl has conducted some tests on his FG80, I hear a weasel squealing ferociously, trying to tell him to stop his tests and listen to more of the ion diatribe. The FG80 works by detecting electrostatic and ionic fields from long time buried gold. You have to accept this fact.

Now, I wonder why this is? Is he afraid that Carl might demonstrate that the FG80 can reliably sense transient EM fields? Wasn't this whiner given every opportunity to demonstrate the Mineoro machines finding gold for several years, yet refused to conduct any repeatable tests for the members of this forum to read about? Isn't this the same whiner who refused to tell how the FG80 is able to sense ions because of "ethical reasons". Isn't this the same whiner who claims he "had a research team which was developing a project which completely have ‘blown’ some accepted standards of quantum mechanics", yet he refused to post any of the test details or results?

It seems a little late to whine and cry about how Carl is not conducting a "Real test" after refusing to conduct or post the results of any "real tests" of his own. All I have heard from this whiner is anecdotal stories about how he found lots of treasures with his Mineoro machines, no repeatable test results at all. Now that Carl has finally demonstrated some repeatable test results on the FG80, he wants him to stop his testing?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

So far, we have a number of reports of FG80 tests in the field by neronc, vcrb, and Carl, looking for the elusive "gold ions in the air", and none of them has been able to find the ions or any gold, not even the sample gold included with the FG80. So now that Carl finds the FG80 can reliably detect transient EM fields, the same weasel comes out whining that his test is no good.

Hahahahahahahahaaa :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The whiners as well as anyone else are free to conduct their "Real" tests and post the test results in this forum or anywhere else they want. It is not necessary for Carl or anyone to stop running tests on the FG80 because a whiner tells him to. So far I have not heard anyone post a concise test procedure to demonstrate the FG80 sensing ions, or conduct any tests of the FG80 detecting ions. All I have heard are anecdotal stories about how they found gold. But the people who recently bought FG80s reported in this forum that they do not work to find gold.

I believe Carl has demonstrated that the FG80 can be used to detect faint transient EM fields repeatably with directional characteristics. He has also demonstrated that the FG80 contains a regenerative receiver, and responds like a regenerative receiver. But Carl has not demonstrated that the FG80 can find gold. Maybe someone can suggest a simple method to demonstrate the FG80 finding gold repeatably or finding gold ions in the air repeatably.

[Qiaozhi]

The FG80 works by detecting electrostatic and ionic fields from long time buried gold. You have to accept this fact.
This is not a fact. There is a lot of skeptism about the so-called ionic detection method, particularly since the whole idea is based on pseudoscience. It might be a fact in your mind, but that's all it is. Just another example of bad thinking.

Simply get a 1.5 ordinary battery and short circuit it. The FG will beep from about 3 to 4 feet away.
The breaklight procedure is to check whether the detector is well calibrated or not. It's sensing the electric fields as it would if you aproach it from a simple light switch outlet in the wall of your home. Although there might be EM presence as in fluroescent lights, it's not detecting it as you think.
This is probably the most (some might say "only") sensible thing you've said on this forum. According to Carl's tests so far, and your own description, it appears that the FG80 reacts to transient EM fields and not to EM fields that are in steady-state. In that case there's no surprise that it beeps when the brake light is activated, or when a power supply is connected to a resistor via a long length of wire, but not when pointed at a flourescent light.

In july of 2006 I was in an expedition to locate gold veins for farmers in the central region of Brazil. One day I arrived at a farm which seemed to be located in the end of the world. In the middle of nothing. No electric lights, antennas, nada. It was night about 8:30 PM, When we were unpacking outside, I decided just for fun get the PDC210 (did not have the FG80 at the time) and scanned 360 deg the environment. Suddenly strong beeps came from one particular direction. As it was night we had to wait till next morning when we found out we detected a gold vein 400 feet away in a small hill which now gold is being extracted. Since the region is rich of natural gold the atmosphere is vastly ionized making detection even easier.
So you got lucky. :frown: By the way, this is another way of saying "it was a coincidence". You are currently caught in the trap of "confirmation bias". If you don't know what that means, then get a good psychology book and read it.

Accept this fact.
It's not a fact, regardless of the number of times you make this statement.

Dell Winders is there not so far from you. GO WITH HIM and see for yourself. Otherwise this thread will become empty discussions as many others here, trying to speculate on this on and on and on...
There is little point Carl going out with Dell to test the FG80. Dell's modus operandi is to compare the device under test with one of his own non-working devices. Such a self-fulfilling prophecy is unscientific in its approach. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. So far we're not seeing any. Your own personal experience is not proof.

"What can be asserted without evidence, can also be dismissed without evidence."

Hopefully Carl will continue his illuminating experiments with the FG80, even though your whinging, and lack of objective evidence to support your claims, will no doubt continue unabated.

[Dell Winders]

Kudo's, to Sam Scafferi, for producing another clone. :lol: Dell

[Carl-NC]

He has also demonstrated that the FG80 contains a regenerative receiver, and responds like a regenerative receiver.

Well, no, I don't know that the FG80 contains a regenerative receiver, because I've never looked inside. I did find such a circuit in the PDC205 I dissected.

According to Carl's tests so far, and your own description, it appears that the FG80 reacts to transient EM fields and not to EM fields that are in steady-state.

I haven't shown (yet) whether the FG80 will (or will not) respond to a steady-state signal. I'll describe that experiment later, when I have time to type it up. Meanwhile, keep in mind that transient EM fields are nothing more broadband signals, made up of lots and lots of frequencies.;)

- Carl

[hung]

Oh man... It's impressive how the 'scientific experts' here have an instantaneous diagnosis and explanations to miserably try to explain why the device SHOULD NOT work as said.
At least Carl is being mininally honest in his answers.

1 - Fact: It seems real tests on this device are being postponed in an attempt to search for another explanation other than the one Mineoro gives. This is silly.

2 - Fact : Gold has to be more than 10 years old buried OR undisturbed for more than 10 years to be detectable. In this case, no need to be buried. Unless one of the above cases are present in a home environment, gold will not be detected.

3 - Fact : I have no reasons to lie. I know the detector works as I have been finding gold. The ones who own a similar device and still have not, are falling in 2 possible scienarios such as misuse of the device or no existence of gold in the region researched. It's either one of the two.

The one example I previously gave is to ilustrate a case of ionized atmosphere and detection happening at night what is not usual for the phenomena to happen.

I could simply not care and not give a sh... about remaining here and saying the same things over and over, but as Carl now owns a FG80, I want him to be able to find gold with it. I'm here to help him as I was here regarding Michael, Neronc, etc. I'm doing an honest attempt to help here. But if I perceive bad intentions to twist what I'm saying or any attempt to discredit myself, I will leave this discussion.

Note that I did not need to be here doing this as I get this disaproval from other sucessful Mineoro users who visit this forum once in a while and laugh in one side and get shocked in another with many things usually said by skeptics.

When I say ACCEPT THE FACT regarding the scientific explanation of the device, it's because there's no other way to understand its working principle other than admiting it. The phenomena is real despite of some skeptics here fool themselves thinking otherwise.
That's why I quit discussing scientific matters in this forum. No can do.
Science is one and only and if you don't look over the 'shoulders' of classical concepts you're dead scientifically. There are several examples which comes to mind as according to classical electrodynamics there should be no radial electric field in direction to the earth, but there is... Standard electrodynamics model not being able to explain the Faraday disk generator for instance, and etc, and etc.

I will not discuss them here. Waste of time.
All I expect is that a real and honest test of this device be made and conducted. The real test of going in the field with it, in the real conditions. To gain time, I suggested Carl to take Dell Winders with him since Dell know of places where gold exists. No reply from Carl. Sounds like prejudgement agains Dell. That's (REAL) bad.
Honestly and realistically, there's no other thing the detector will do in a region where there's long time buried gold but beep. Period.

[Clondike Clad]

FACT:Any working metal detector will work for anyone.
FACT:SOMEONE IS LYING ON THIS FORUM:nono:
FACT: SOMEONE IS TESTING A LRL AND IT IS NOT WORKING AT FINDING GOLD.
FACT: THE LRL TESTED JUST LIKE ALL THE OTHERS AND THAT IS....AS A SCAM OR BULL @#%$ CRAP.:angry:
FACT: THE TESTER OF THIS LRL KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING.:)
FACT:FG80 IS BUSTED:D
NOW THE ONE WHO IS LYING CAN STOP LYING NOW:lol:

[J_Player]

So far, we have received no concise instructions on how to test the FG80, only instructions for why testing won't work. Perhaps what is needed is a protocol that establishes a methodical method to examine what this device really does. So far we already had several people post the results of their field tests, indicating the GF80 does not find gold in the open fields. We also have some controlled tests by Carl which demonstrate that the FG80 can reliably sense transient EM fields with directional capabilities.

For a comprehensive protocol I would suggest that we include many kinds of testing, starting by reviewing the instructions from the manufacturer, conducting a close examination of the components in the FG80, performing controlled tests, and performing field tests.

In each of the 4 categories, there exists great latitude to experiment with different approaches. For example:

1. Manufacturer's instructions: Read the literature that the manufacturer included with the FG80 as well as the literature published on the Mineoro website so we have a full understanding of what the manufacturer claims this machine will do and what limitations he says it has. This does not prevent us from considering Hung's instructions which seem to be a bit different that what Mineoro publishes. And we may also develop instructions of our own based on our speculative thoughts of how the FG80 may respond, as in Carl's experiments with sensing transient EM fields.

2. Close examination of the components in the FG80: After looking at all the items that come with the FG80 and closely examining them, We may also decide to open the box and inspect the circuitry to see if there are any recognizable circuits commonly used in electronic devices. Destructive testing in the manner of Alexmex would show every last detail, but this may not be feasible if the FG80 is to be used to perform field tests and controlled tests.

3. Controlled testing: Carl has already taken a few stabs at controlled testing which resulted in demonstrating that the FG80 can reliably detect the presence of transient EM fields in the proximity with directional characteristics. The Mineoro website suggests a controlled test of the Gold Ion Generator (GIG) by setting the sensitivity to 400, then turn on the GIG and hold the gold plate in front of the GIG. They say you can detect the gold plate at a maximum distance of 1.5m. They say to perform the test with the gold plate, steel and copper. Also to perform it with a gold ring, which should respond at a maximum distance of 1m. They caution that this distance may be limited depending on the relative humidity of the air, electric nets radiation or atmospheric discharge. I believe this means this test is best performed away from any power sources, and done in what they deem to be the optimal relative humidity of 10% to 30%. But they say you can still get good, but slightly diminished results at up to 55% relative humidity. See bottom of this page for details: http://www.mineoro.com/guides/guideFg80.php
In addition to Mineoro's controlled tests, we can also devise any controlled tests we feel are helpful, and any tests that someone suggests. We can test the FG80 to see if it responds to things it was designed for, or things it was never intended for. Some may whine, but nobody can stop us.

4. Field testing: We already have the results posted of some field testing from neronc, vcrb, and Carl. vcrb in particular has stated he tested the GF80 in all types of weather and at different times of the year. "We tried and tried but to no avail". Carl and neronc had similar experiences in their limited field testing.
However, there are a couple of skeptics snivelling that there are many conditions that must be met before the FG80 will detect gold. It seems appropriate to devise a test that meets these conditions and see if we can demonstrate the FG80 finding gold when all the conditions are met.

Also, it is my understanding that the FG80 is supposed to find other buried items besides gold. I think it would also be helpful to conduct field tests to find these other items. The field testing protocol is also wide open for new innovative tests that anyone thinks would be helpful. Field testing does need to conform to anyone's concept of the "proper usage" of the FG80.

The biggest problem with testing any LRL in the field is that you may need to dig a hole the size of the field. Therefore, I suggest conducting all field tests in locations where a backhoe is available to do the digging.

[schatzsucher]

Why the manufacturer does not look for gold and became rich?

[Qiaozhi]

I haven't shown (yet) whether the FG80 will (or will not) respond to a steady-state signal. I'll describe that experiment later, when I have time to type it up. Meanwhile, keep in mind that transient EM fields are nothing more broadband signals, made up of lots and lots of frequencies.;)

- Carl
Looking forward to it. ;)

1 - Fact: It seems real tests on this device are being postponed in an attempt to search for another explanation other than the one Mineoro gives. This is silly.

2 - Fact : Gold has to be more than 10 years old buried OR undisturbed for more than 10 years to be detectable. In this case, no need to be buried. Unless one of the above cases are present in a home environment, gold will not be detected.

3 - Fact : I have no reasons to lie. I know the detector works as I have been finding gold. The ones who own a similar device and still have not, are falling in 2 possible scienarios such as misuse of the device or no existence of gold in the region researched. It's either one of the two.
Again, you are confusing wishful thinking with reality. :frown:
None of the above are facts in the remotest sense of the word.

When I say ACCEPT THE FACT regarding the scientific explanation of the device, it's because there's no other way to understand its working principle other than admiting it.
This is just utter tripe.
Let's see that again: "...there's no other way to understand its working principle other than admiting it." :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Give me strength... :razz:

In other words you're simply saying "have faith". Anyone reading your verbage could be excused for concluding that this LRL nonsense has developed into a religion. :frown: It seems you're now asking us engineers and scientists to forget about understanding how this works, and simply "believe". This smacks of pseudoscientific witchcraft. Unfortunately for you, we are not yet prepared to worship at the Church of Mineoro.

Standard electrodynamics model not being able to explain the Faraday disk generator for instance, and etc, and etc.
Actually the Faraday disk (or homopolar generator, as it's also known) is quite easily explained by science, without recourse to "made-up" physics.

[Carl-NC]

Gold has to be more than 10 years old buried OR undisturbed for more than 10 years to be detectable.

Mineoro specifically claims that the FG80 will detect fresh gold. You specifically said, in this thread (http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?t=11899), that your FG80 would detect fresh gold.

Now you are changing your story.

My FG80 included a gold-colored plate. Tell me, Hung... what is this plate for? Just to look at?

Note that I did not need to be here doing this as I get this disaproval from other sucessful Mineoro users who visit this forum once in a while and laugh in one side and get shocked in another with many things usually said by skeptics.
Where are all these successful Mineoro users? Have them drop in, and show us all the recoveries.

The real test of going in the field with it, in the real conditions.
This sounds exactly like the other LRL guys... "It doesn't work in bogus scientific tests, it will only work in the field."

To gain time, I suggested Carl to take Dell Winders with him since Dell know of places where gold exists.Jewelry stores?

- Carl

[J_Player]

To gain time, I suggested Carl to take Dell Winders with him since Dell know of places where gold exists.

Jewelry stores?

This suggests a good idea for a test: Take the FG80 outside a jewelry store and calibrate it. Then walk inside and see what kind of response you get. After taking notes on the readings, go to a Goodwill second hand store and repeat the procedure and see what kind of response you get. If the FG80 truly senses fresh gold, then it should go nuts in the jewelry store compared to how it responds in the Goodwill store. I wonder how the FG80 responds in the vicinity of Fort Knox? :eek:

[Dell Winders]

Take the FG80 outside a jewelry store and calibrate it. Then walk inside and see what kind of response you get.:lol:

Excellent idea. I can just see the silent alarms going off, Carl, surrounded by a SWAT team with guns drawn telling him to drop the Mineoro, and lay down on the floor. And Carl, taking an 80 year old woman hostage, pointing the Mineoro to the woman's head and ordering the Cops to back off, or he will ionize her. Dell

[hung]

Mineoro specifically claims that the FG80 will detect fresh gold. You specifically said, in this thread (http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?t=11899), that your FG80 would detect fresh gold.

Now you are changing your story.
My FG80 included a gold-colored plate. Tell me, Hung... what is this plate for? Just to look at?

I won't be repeating myself over and over again. Check my past posts. The answer is there.

Where are all these successful Mineoro users? Have them drop in, and show us all the recoveries.

They don't need to. Many are there in Mineoro site showing their findings. I met some.
The ones who are not, want to remain anonimous. In fact I invited some to join the forum. They declined saying that besides they are most of time too busy in the field, they think this forum is like a 'zoo'. I'm sorry.

This sounds exactly like the other LRL guys... "It doesn't work in bogus scientific tests, it will only work in the field."

Scientific tests...
Well, maybe you're right. There must be gold buried in your lab.

[hung]

:lol:

Excellent idea. I can just see the silent alarms going off, Carl, surrounded by a SWAT team with guns drawn telling him to drop the Mineoro, and lay down on the floor. And Carl, taking an 80 year old woman hostage, pointing the Mineoro to the woman's head and ordering the Cops to back off, or he will ionize her. Dell
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That's why it's worth to be around here!!!

[Esteban]

In via for to comprobe if I can pick up magnetically metals (only receiver absorptive type circuit), yes and found a silver coin dated 1798. Also other items. This circuit (magnetic field detector) is easy to build and I'm surprising that a simple absorptive circuit can detect at 10 meters this coin and other items as a big chandelier. So, the magnetic system wich use Mineoro can pick up metals (buried).

The theme is leave the chair and computer, make the experiments and go outside in free fields, is very but very different fresh metal than long time buried metals.

[Qiaozhi]

In via for to comprobe if I can pick up magnetically metals (only receiver absorptive type circuit), yes and found a silver coin dated 1798. Also other items. This circuit (magnetic field detector) is easy to build and I'm surprising that a simple absorptive circuit can detect at 10 meters this coin and other items as a big chandelier. So, the magnetic system wich use Mineoro can pick up metals (buried).

The theme is leave the chair and computer, make the experiments and go outside in free fields, is very but very different fresh metal than long time buried metals.
Now this is a variation on a theme. There is no claim here of ionic detection, although I remain skeptical that a magnetic field detector would be capable of detecting a coin at 10 metres. For instance, what magnetic field is being detected?
Can you post the circuit here? Then we can understand how this may be possible.

[Esteban]

No variations of the theme. Look that the Mineoro detectors contain a copper printed loop and this actuates in conjunction with the ionic chamber, so is a two detectors in one.

The magnetic field detector pick up metals buried for long time and maybe also the electric field around these. Good conductive metals "emits" some phenomenom I can't explain. Electric? Magnetic? Ionic? The combination of these?

[Carl-NC]

My FG80 included a gold-colored plate. Tell me, Hung... what is this plate for?

[Qiaozhi]

My FG80 included a gold-colored plate. Tell me, Hung... what is this plate for?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Carl - I think you'll be mighty lucky if you ever get a sensible answer to this question.

[gaucho1961]

My friends,
I do not want to be the Devil's advocate defending the Mineoro, but, I have a DCH85, and with it I found many jewels and gold coins.
Frustration really exists to place the detector to work, made some experiences and today I know that some factors exist detector to function it well.
Low atmospheric pressure and one day bad, with loaded clouds for rain it is the certainty to make the ionic detectors to function correctly and satisfactory.
Logical that you need to have privacy with the detector and to make the certain regulations.
Forgives my English.

[mosha]

hi gaucho1961

let us put some hints for the best wheater conditions to use mineoro,

1- atmospheric pressure must not be low.
2- cloudy sky ( I know when clouds build up the atmospheric become positive ionized befor rain).
some users in this forum say sunny day would be better for using mineoro :???:

[hung]

hi gaucho1961

let us put some hints for the best wheater conditions to use mineoro,

1- atmospheric pressure must not be low.
2- cloudy sky ( I know when clouds build up the atmospheric become positive ionized befor rain).
some users in this forum say sunny day would be better for using mineoro :???:

Those are topics which I discussed here many times, but apparently I'm writing chinese.
When it rains, the atmosphere which was electricaly positive charged prior to it, changes to negative which diminishes the amplitude of the ionic fields on earth if not quiting it momentarily.
This will affect distance of detection and size of target to be detected if it's a small ring for instance.
Bear in mind that if it's a big target, it could be raining, snowing, be night, dawn or day. It will be detected anyway although the extreme range of a sunny and dry day will dimish proportionally. I have already faced those situations

The other factor which also affects detection is humidity. The lower the better.
All of this is well explained in Mineoro's site. So no need to extend myself here.

The DCH 85 required 100% of ionic emanation to work. The FG only 25%.
Despite of that it was used to help find the Atocha's motherlode.

[nelson]

Hi Esteban.
About this divice on the picture, is possible to have the circuit?
Also, do you know if a comercial EFD can be modified to get those electromagnetic fields from under ground? May be i can add a loop sensor to it, so i can amplified the signal.
Regards
Nelson


In via for to comprobe if I can pick up magnetically metals (only receiver absorptive type circuit), yes and found a silver coin dated 1798. Also other items. This circuit (magnetic field detector) is easy to build and I'm surprising that a simple absorptive circuit can detect at 10 meters this coin and other items as a big chandelier. So, the magnetic system wich use Mineoro can pick up metals (buried).

The theme is leave the chair and computer, make the experiments and go outside in free fields, is very but very different fresh metal than long time buried metals.

[Esteban]

The DCH 85 works in similar manner to other Mineoro detectors. The DCH 86 has a real metal detector type BFO. This both detectors maybe works better with charged clouds, OK, this is the same info I provide when I wrote recently regarding that the fine rain helps the detection and actuates as a "bridge". Also we built a high voltage metal detector (15,000 - 20,000, TV flyback) and the high voltage electric lines improve the detection. This is, a natural or artificial phenomenom are good or bad, depending in WICH system is based the sensor.

Read about my experience with fine rain in Real Ion Detection thread:

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?t=12723

[Esteban]

High voltage lines helps this kind of detector:

[Qiaozhi]

Those are topics which I discussed here many times, but apparently I'm writing chinese.
:lol:

[gaucho1961]

Mosha,
If you have a Detector of this model, make the test in the conditions that I mentioned, and will have success with the detector.
Low the atmospheric pressure and loaded clouds are essential to function correctly and to have good resulted.
I do not want to be the owner of the truth, nor to criticize the opinions of the colleagues but, they are these atmospheric conditions that better I had resulted, in a research I found 32 currencies (9 of gold and 23 of silver) in one to 90cm of depth.
I always make test with the DCH85 before travelling, bind the detector and approach to fluorescent lamp or of a television, it ions will have to whistle when catching.
The use of a Barometer is interesting, so that it can follow the atmospheric pressure.
It thinks well, if the use of these detectors was easy, would not have more nothing to discover, science and the technology still has its limitations in relation when weater.
It makes the test in these conditions and later it returns its commentary here in fórum, appositive that it goes to surprise.

Forgives my English

In annex photos of another invention, that I want to argue in another occasion.
Electronic Pendulum.

[gaucho1961]

I live close to Mineoro, 50 km, and can take off doubts with the technician who makes the assembly of detectors, it is my friend..

[gaucho1961]

My Hung friend is speaking in Chinese!
And very well, therefore all understand it... Hahahahahah!!!!!
He is that nobody seems to give attention in that it is speaking, and it is speaking certain...

[mosha]

thank you gaucho1961

I have DC2008, I do not know if it work same as the principle of DCH85, but I will concidre your advices and hungs' as well.

hung;

我能理解中國人也.

[hung]

Hey gaucho, I'll include you in my next expedition. But only if you serve me a good 'chimarrão' to drink.:D

Mosha, as I said, it's just a matter of time before you or any Mineoro detector owner find gold. But bear in mnd you need hard work. If you don't ever go to the field, don't expect to find anything. So don't be an 'armchair researcher'.
Just to encourage you. I know 2 people who own DC2008s and both are sucessful. One of them is my friend here in Brazil. He lives close to the beach in the northeast region. In this beach, in a particular spot in a shallow pond naturally built with salt water, the DC always gave insistent beeps. He decided to dive there and he found 20 (!) gold rings lost during a long period of time. That's what I call a true treasure ring (beach)...:cool:

[Qiaozhi]

thank you gaucho1961

I have DC2008, I do not know if it work same as the principle of DCH85, but I will concidre your advices and hungs' as well.

hung;

我能理解中國人也.
In that case, try this ->

[gaucho1961]

It translates into English...
I am curious....Hahaha!!!!!!!!!!
Great Hung friend,
Is clearly that I go to serve a good CHIMARRÃO (drink tipical of the south of Brazil), folloied of a good CHURRASCO (tipical food, barbecue)...
Where I dig????... where I dig?????? here???? here??????
I believe that only thus I could be together in this expedition... Hahahahaha!!

[Qiaozhi]

It translates into English...
I am curious....Hahaha!!!!!!!!!!
Great Hung friend,
Is clearly that I go to serve a good CHIMARRÃO (drink tipical of the south of Brazil), folloied of a good CHURRASCO (tipical food, barbecue)...
Where I dig????... where I dig?????? here???? here??????
I believe that only thus I could be together in this expedition... Hahahahaha!!
You wrote "I am also able to understand Chinese people." - although you used traditional characters. But you are unable to read my reply?
I suspect Babel Fish was at work here... :rolleyes:

[mosha]

In that case, try this ->

well Qiaozhi, if you want me to comunicate with you chinese, write in text not image so I can translate by google :D

[Qiaozhi]

well Qiaozhi, if you want me to comunicate with you chinese, write in text not image so I can translate by google :D
As I suspected... :D
Mei guanxi. You can even use pinyin if you like. ;)

[Carl-NC]

Experiment #3.

I have a signal generator with a frequency range of 300kHz - 2GHz. In addition, it can apply AM & FM modulation to the signal. I connected the output to a crude dipole antenna and held the FG80 about a foot away, with sensitivity set to 300.

I started at 1MHz and increased the frequency up to 100MHz in 1MHz increments. There was no response. Knowing that 100MHz is in the middle of the FM radio band, I enabled FM modulation, with no response. Out of curiosity, I switched to AM modulation, and the FG80 responded at a very close range (an inch or so). I then adjusted the carrier frequency until I found a peak sensitivity at 235 MHz, where the FG80 would respond at a distance of 21 inches. As soon as AM modulation was removed, the FG80 ceased to respond.

I continued up in frequency and found a much larger peak at 295 MHz, where detection was easily 4 feet. Other minor peaks occurred at 480MHz and 730MHz, where detection was 15-20 inches. In all cases, detection distance varied with sensitivity setting, and only when AM was enabled.

This test shows that the FG80 easily detects a 295MHz AM signal. What is special about this frequency? It turns out that 295MHz is commonly used for remote controls, such as garage door openers. Furthermore, these remote controls commonly use ASK (amplitude shift keying), which is nothing more than amplitude modulation.

This kind of detection is not something that easily happens by accident. The FG80 must have a circuit that is optimally tuned to 295MHz, must have an AM detector that triggers the beeper, and the sensitivity of this detector must be under the control of the FG80's sensitivity knob. All of this points to the deliberate design of an AM receiver circuit.

Though I have yet to open the FG80, I previously reported that inside a PDC205 I found a regenerative receiver circuit connected to a PCB loop antenna. This is precisely the kind of circuit that can be used to receive AM signals.

- Carl

[Esteban]

The Mineoro loop is connected to a primary of a toroidal core (1 or 2 turns of simple cable) and secondary coil tune in the khz region. The correct way for to appreciate in wich frequency it is tune is connecting a simple coil to a low frequency generator:

[hung]

Well, looks like Carl is still playing with his toy like a kid.

Just an advice for him. When ( and if :rolleyes: ) he does decide to research in the field, make sure to do it between 9 and 11 AM and from 2 till 6 PM. Those are the best times for detecting when the phenomena happens the most.

Crespin dos Santos told me a couple of weeks ago he and his team had to wait from 8 AM till 10 AM, resting under a tree for the phenomena to manifest so he could mark the exact spot they had detected days before.
By the way, I tried to reach him yesterday to get some more inputs about his use of the FG80 with GIG for fresh gold, but I was told he traveled to Santa Catarina to locate gold for a contractor. So, I don't know wheter I'll be around when he gets back as I will soon leave for a recovery procedure and a research on another location.

Hey Esteban, I really admire your kind gesturesand concern for teaching those guys here.

[Qiaozhi]

Well, looks like Carl is still playing with his toy like a kid.
Eventually you've said it!
In your own words, it's a "toy". :lol: :lol: :lol:

This test shows that the FG80 easily detects a 295MHz AM signal. What is special about this frequency? It turns out that 295MHz is commonly used for remote controls, such as garage door openers. Furthermore, these remote controls commonly use ASK (amplitude shift keying), which is nothing more than amplitude modulation.

This kind of detection is not something that easily happens by accident. The FG80 must have a circuit that is optimally tuned to 295MHz, must have an AM detector that triggers the beeper, and the sensitivity of this detector must be under the control of the FG80's sensitivity knob. All of this points to the deliberate design of an AM receiver circuit.
And sure enough, here's just the device required to remotely trigger an FG80: http://www.contractorstools.com/sentex_clikcard.html
It works at either 295MHz or 303MHz. Not only that, but the receiver box even resembles a certain ionic detector. Perhaps this is where Mineoro got the idea in the first place. :rolleyes:

[hung]

http://www.mineoro.com/goldDetectors/finding_mexico.php

Money talks, BS..... Ssshhhhhhh.:super:

[hung]

Ironies of fate...
Mexico...
While Alexismex ruins his detector, his comrade (logically) uses it to find gold...

Quoting James Taylor..
'Oh Mexico, guess I'll have to go now'(on a whistle) :cool:

[Qiaozhi]

http://www.mineoro.com/goldDetectors/finding_mexico.php

Money talks, BS..... Ssshhhhhhh.:super:
More fairy tales from Hans Christian Hung :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz:

A fairy tale is a fictional story that usually features folkloric characters (such as Damasio and Alonso - although fairies, goblins, elves, trolls, witches, giants and talking animals may also be included) plus enchantments, and often involving a far-fetched sequence of events.

Goodnight children, and sleep tight. :D

[hung]

More fairy tales from Hans Christian Hung :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz:

A fairy tale is a fictional story that usually features folkloric characters (such as Damasio and Alonso - although fairies, goblins, elves, trolls, witches, giants and talking animals may also be included) plus enchantments, and often involving a far-fetched sequence of events.

Goodnight children, and sleep tight. :D

Hey, I really feel sorry for you. Wake up! You got far out of hand.
Despite reports of sucess also by Esteban, Gaucho, an iranian which I don't recall the name who's the owner of a DC2008, I, and others, to mention only forum members, you still keep playing an autist, away from reality and clearly falling into ridicule here.
Unless you think all of us are lying. And if this is the case you have a serious behaviour disturb which prevents you from trust anything and anyone.
But if you just enjoy fooling yourself even after people's testmonies...
Well, either way your case is medical.

[Clondike Clad]

Carl is very good with electronocs and he can't get his FG80 to work.
Why is this sowhat is going on with the 295mhz and AM.

[hung]

Hung why carl can't get his F80 to work?????

Because he refuses to take it to the field. The detector will beep where there's long time buried gold. His FG80 is working fine.

[Qiaozhi]

Hey, I really feel sorry for you. Wake up! You got far out of hand.
Despite reports of sucess also by Esteban, Gaucho, an iranian which I don't recall the name who's the owner of a DC2008, I, and others, to mention only forum members, you still keep playing an autist, away from reality and clearly falling into ridicule here.
Unless you think all of us are lying. And if this is the case you have a serious behaviour disturb which prevents you from trust anything and anyone.
But if you just enjoy fooling yourself even after people's testmonies...
Well, either way your case is medical.
This is just subjective evidence and proves nothing.
Clondike Clad is correct. Carl is unable to get the FG80's beeping to correlate to a real target - not even the gold sample supplied with the device.
If you believe that this so-called "ionic detector" is capable of detecting longtime buried gold, you are sadly deluded, particularly since these ions do not even exist. They are purely a figment of your overactive imagination and pseudoscientific closed mindset.
May I suggest you enrol on a remedial course in basic physics.

[Carl-NC]

Hung,

I decided your suggestion of meeting up with Dell for a field test isn't a bad idea. A "Treasure Expo" in Florida is in the works, and Dell has told the organizer that he will be there and even give presentations.

I also agreed to attend, and give a seminar on detector technology. Plus, I thought it would be an opportunity to finally meet Dell, and even take the FG80 for some real field work. Hopefully, I can get Dell to join me.

This will happen in August. Meanwhile, I have some other testing planned.

- Carl

[Leto]

Originally Posted by hung http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?p=53225#post53225)
Because he refuses to take it to the field. The detector will beep where there's long time buried gold. His FG80 is working fine.

Carl please strech your legs and take a hike to the cementary (graveyard) - there should be >long time buried gold<.. at least some jewlery or gold protetic teeth.

Or maybe gold on human remains does not leech ions??

[hung]

Hung,

I decided your suggestion of meeting up with Dell for a field test isn't a bad idea. A "Treasure Expo" in Florida is in the works, and Dell has told the organizer that he will be there and even give presentations.

I also agreed to attend, and give a seminar on detector technology. Plus, I thought it would be an opportunity to finally meet Dell, and even take the FG80 for some real field work. Hopefully, I can get Dell to join me.

This will happen in August. Meanwhile, I have some other testing planned.

- Carl

Great. At last.
Nice to hear you will meet Dell. I feel like being the culprit to this 'marriage' :D
Drop me a gold nugget by mail if you happen to find many...
Good luck.

[Dell Winders]

I can't trust anything this guy says. It's a setup.
Carl Moreland, is the reason I WON'T be attending the meeting in August. Dell

[J_Player]

Hahahahahahaaaa...

Now this is starting to get funny. Carl starts his series of tests on the FG80, then Hung whines that he's not testing it right. Next Hung references propaganda posted on the Mineoro site and another site that sells Mineoro to prove it works. He even references Esteban to prove the Mineoro works, while Esteban claims the Mineoro is inferior, and he found his treasures with machines he built himself. Hahahahaaa. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now, that Carl finally decides to subject the FG80 to the conditions that Hung demands, Dell Winders weasels out cause he's afraid Carl will demonstrate the LRL BS is bogus. Are the LRL manufacturers askeert of real engineers? Did Carl scare off Dell Winders? :razz: :razz: :razz:

Don't it make you wanna go out and buy a Mineoro or Omnitron right away? :drool:

[Dell Winders]

Sorry, I don't know any locations where Gold is buried at the meeting place. I have never been there.

I only had a couple of hours to test the FG-80. Carl, has had months. If he is too stupid to learn to use it in that time, there is nothihg I can do to help him. Even a scientific pretender should be able to turn on a switch and tune a dial. I'll bet with a couple of bananas as an enticement even you could learn to do it.

[J_Player]

Is the LRL manufacturer changing his story?

Original reason:
Carl Moreland, is the reason I WON'T be attending the meeting in August. Dell

New reason:
Sorry, I don't know any locations where Gold is buried at the meeting place. I have never been there.

I only had a couple of hours to test the FG-80. Carl, has had months. If he is too stupid to learn to use it in that time, there is nothihg I can do to help him. Even a scientific pretender should be able to turn on a switch and tune a dial. I'll bet with a couple of bananas as an enticement even you could learn to do it.

Err... Dell,
In the past months Carl followed the manufacturer's instructions and discovered the FG80 did not detect gold as advertised. Then he began following the instructions from Hung, which are different than those from the manufacturer, and still could not detect gold. Finally, there is an opportunity for a LRL expert to show him how to locate gold per Hung's demands, and the best advice you can come up with is to use bananas for a training aid.

Hahahahahahaaaa. Sounds real dang scientific Dell. I think yer just skeerta being exposed by a real engineer. :razz:

[Qiaozhi]

I can't trust anything this guy says. It's a setup.
Carl Moreland, is the reason I WON'T be attending the meeting in August. Dell
Absolutely brilliant! :D This is so funny! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Why am I not surprised?

Sorry, I don't know any locations where Gold is buried at the meeting place. I have never been there.
Whatever happened to your armchair dowsing activities? Oh sorry, I meant mental map dowsing. :rolleyes: Surely you can identify some likely locations without leaving home? :razz:

Great. At last.
Nice to hear you will meet Dell. I feel like being the culprit to this 'marriage' :D
Drop me a gold nugget by mail if you happen to find many...
Good luck.
Hung - perhaps you should go instead, since Dell has wimped out. In a way, I don't blame Dell for not wanting to do your dirty work for you. :nono:

Must go now - I'm laughing so much, I think I've soiled myself... :lol:

[Jim]

I can't trust anything this guy says. It's a setup.
Carl Moreland, is the reason I WON'T be attending the meeting in August. Dell

A press release dated 4/18/07 Dell Winders had said:

"I rented the meeting room for Saturday, august 18th. It will be Free to the public, to show continuous videos of Treasure and Treasure Salvors in action. If there is sufficient interest in the Free movie room, I will rent it for a second day Sunday, August 19th."

Which face to believe?

[Clondike Clad]

I can get one on a loan.
But the guy told me he can get t to work.
I know it i not the FG80 but can it work for me.
If you can show me how to run this thing and make it work(I must find gold)
I will get the FG80 post all my finds on this site.
It will be a turn around for me.(talking good and not bad about the FG60)
IF Carl can't get his to work
I will post and do only the thing you have me to do with the FG79 on this site.
So what is the first thing you want me to do with the FG79.
I will have it sent to me ASAP.
I will not open the FG79.

[Carl-NC]

A press release dated 4/18/07 Dell Winders had said:

"I rented the meeting room for Saturday, august 18th. It will be Free to the public, to show continuous videos of Treasure and Treasure Salvors in action. If there is sufficient interest in the Free movie room, I will rent it for a second day Sunday, August 19th."

*Sigh*, it's true. The "Treasure Expo" is scheduled for August 18-19 in Cocoa Beach. Don Webb has been performing Herculian feats to get this thing organized. Dell was one of the very first people to sign up.

I also agreed to attend, and will have a booth and give a seminar on detector technology. When Dell found out that I am going, he immediately canceled. I've privately written Dell twice to assure him that I will NOT use the Expo to try to discredit him in any way:


I will promise not to bring any Dell/Omnitron devices with me...
I will promise not to say anything about you or your products in my seminar...
I will promise not say anything about you or your products otherwise, except in response to direct questions, and even then I will be restrained and civil...
I will promise to be polite and civil towards you in all other respects.

In return, you follow through on your original commitment to Don. Also, you may say whatever you like about me at the Expo, I don't really care.
Of course, Dell won't respond to private messages, he only responds on the forums. OK by me. For years, Dell has prodded me on the forums to come down to Florida. Now that I'm coming, he runs away. This reminds me of Jim Thomas, who sued me and then ran and hid when I showed up for our court date. What are these guys afraid of? Do LRLs really NOT work, and these guys KNOW it?

Don Webb, the organizer, is a dowsing proponent and is eager to meet me, so why Dell thinks this is a "setup" is beyond me. And just what is there to "setup"? If I have been totally wrong all these years, and LRLs really DO work, then I would expect Dell to be eager for this opportunity to show everyone how wrong I am. It's his perfect chance, in front of dozens of other treasure hunters, to completely and totally embarrass me.

I'm attending. Dell is retreating. Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions.

- Carl

[Jim]

*Sigh*, it's true. The "Treasure Expo" is scheduled for August 18-19 in Cocoa Beach. Don Webb has been performing Herculian feats to get this thing organized. Dell was one of the very first people to sign up.

I also agreed to attend, and will have a booth and give a seminar on detector technology. When Dell found out that I am going, he immediately canceled. I've privately written Dell twice to assure him that I will NOT use the Expo to try to discredit him in any way:

Of course, Dell won't respond to private messages, he only responds on the forums. OK by me. For years, Dell has prodded me on the forums to come down to Florida. Now that I'm coming, he runs away. This reminds me of Jim Thomas, who sued me and then ran and hid when I showed up for our court date. What are these guys afraid of? Do LRLs really NOT work, and these guys KNOW it?

Don Webb, the organizer, is a dowsing proponent and is eager to meet me, so why Dell thinks this is a "setup" is beyond me. And just what is there to "setup"? If I have been totally wrong all these years, and LRLs really DO work, then I would expect Dell to be eager for this opportunity to show everyone how wrong I am. It's his perfect chance, in front of dozens of other treasure hunters, to completely and totally embarrass me.

I'm attending. Dell is retreating. Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions.

- Carl

I have to tell you, Carl...this whole Treasure Expo leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Even after all the great suggestions offered to the promoter, Don Webb, they are obviously more concerned with fantasy treasure hunting than promoting a well-organized event.

It may make exciting chat room gossip, but in the RealWorld it isn't going to fetch thousands of visitors or high-end vendors. I think the original concept of a get-together was more plausible than this get-rich-quick-scheme, or promoting some of the East Coast salvage operations in search of investors.

[hung]

I'm sorry to see the Dell-Carl meeting might not work out well. I am sincerelly hoping and wishing they meet as both have qualities which will benefit each other.
I thought Dell would be the ideal partner to go in the field in US because I'm aware he might know locations where gold exists and will save time for Carl.
Anyway I thought I would post a guide to Carl use his FG in the field but anyone who wish so can also benefit.
Hope Carl and Dell meet and both get a lot of respect from one another.
************
Tips to use the FG on the field.

1 – There will be times during the day which present the best conditions for ionic/electrostatic detection. Those are bet. 9 and 11:30 in the morning and from 13:30 till 17:30 in the afternoon. This might vary tough. Although this might not affect big targets, it can regarding small objects. Prior to the Malaysian tsunami in 2004 in the north hemisphere the best months peaked in june-july. I don’t know if this has changed.
For a good research, one or two weeks on site is generally required. But if a particular spot is already known to contain the target, then only a fewhours or even less will suffice.


2 – When detecting in the field, sporadic and non consistent beeps might happen. This can be due to several reasons such as weak ionic field, over tuning, spread objects, among others. The workaround to all of this involves a lot of variables which is directly proportional to the experience of the researcher and time of usage he has with the device. Since the advices for this are vast, I will not cover them now. But a good advice at this time is this: Spend the maximum time knowing the detector’s reactions in the field. The more you take it to research the more experience you’ll get in solving issues and revising strategies of detection. Also you will gain a dramatic increase of resources which will be at your disposal. Have in mind that the detector works and you only need to know the best conditions and approaches in order to succeed in pinpointing the target. Mastering the knob’s calibration is a must and you will only achieve this with time. So be patient. It’s a great tool but as with any other tool, you have to learn how to use it.
When I refer to calibration, I suggest not exaggerating. You want fine tuning, not over tuning. This however is a thin line which the user has to perceive. I remember once researching on a beach section with apparently no gold objects there, but I exaggerated so much in my PDC’s calibration that I ended up getting a pull tab. If indeed there’s gold in a particular location, you will get it from a considerable distance and with a consistent beep even if it’s a small object, although I don’t discard the possibility of weak beeps for small gold objects depending on weather conditions. Usually beaches fall in this category due to humidity. When non consistent or weak beeps happen, it will be hard to determine depth with the C&D accessory. Better in mountain regions or similar. Recalibrate the FG’s knob to search for a target and also every time you find a signal and experience a loss of it eventually.

3 – Although the manual states differently, don’t let batteries reach values close to 16 in the LCD or otherwise you might experience loss of signal and beeps will cease. Be sure to always use fresh batteries and always take a spare kit in the field.


4 - Learn to get the best of your detector. As already stated, trust it and don’t get discouraged when you fail in determining exact location and not getting consistent beeps. This situation changes from day to day and even hour to hour. So be patient but strongly determined in finding what the detector indicated. Important: The detector will only beep in the field if there's indeed gold there, provided the device is well calibrated and the user has sufficient experience to judge according to the detector reactions
In sum, taking from a musician’s side, it’s not because a couple of people own a Fender Stratocaster guitar, they will play exactly the same level of skill. Also don’t expect to play just like Steve Ray Vaughn for instance, just because you own one and copied his tone. Might take time.

From the book :”The FG80 Power User Guide’, by Hung.:D

[Carl-NC]

I have to tell you, Carl...this whole Treasure Expo leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Even after all the great suggestions offered to the promoter, Don Webb, they are obviously more concerned with fantasy treasure hunting than promoting a well-organized event.

It may make exciting chat room gossip, but in the RealWorld it isn't going to fetch thousands of visitors or high-end vendors. I think the original concept of a get-together was more plausible than this get-rich-quick-scheme, or promoting some of the East Coast salvage operations in search of investors.

So far Don has done a phenomenal job. I hope the Expo is a success, and that it becomes an annual event. I will personally help Don toward that goal.

I don't think Don is trying to promote any particular operation or scheme. Have no idea why he suddenly got off that silly "psychic" tangent, but it was Dell who started that nonsense. I will have a mag and a large-coil PI available for anyone who wants to prove it all wrong, but I personally don't care to waste my time on pure fantasies.

It's far easier to sit on the sidelines and complain, than to jump in and help. I am currently working on getting some equipment vendors to attend. Also looking for more people/groups to display finds. Are you interested? Would love to meet you.

- Carl

[Jim]

It's far easier to sit on the sidelines and complain, than to jump in and help. I am currently working on getting some equipment vendors to attend. Also looking for more people/groups to display finds. Are you interested? Would love to meet you.

- Carl

I tried tossing my hat into the ring (so to speak) as a vendor. I have set-up at numerous Bottle Shows across the US and in Canada over the past twenty-plus years. I have been associated with various Historical organizations in the great state of Florida, as well as Archeologist Societies.

Don Webb turned me down from participating in this event because of my disagreements with him pertaining to dowsing, controversial gold coins and silver nails. Nevertheless, that is OK. I still may attend as the paying public.

If the function were associated with some sort of accredited club or organization, it would have more validity to it. Door proceeds, raffle proceeds and other income(s) are going where?

[Carl-NC]

Very well, how about if I invite you, as a vendor? I would love to see your bottle finds. Used to dig bottles myself, many moons ago. I will clear it with Don, and you won't have to deal with him.

Don has very likely sunk several hundred $ of his own money so far. He has done 99.9% of the work. If he ends up making money on this, power to him. I would like to see this turn into a sanctioned annual event, possibly by TreasureNet. But for the first year, we'll just have to go with what we have.

- Carl

[hung]

Dell,

I became aware of a supposed information you dowsed gold inside copper boxes buried in the beach where the EXPO will take place.
If the boxes are all iron and there's no leakage, probably the FG80 will not detect them.
But if the boxes are all copper, the FG will detect them for sure, although not from a very far distance I believe and from a considerable distance if only part copper.

So if you do intend to go to the show as a paying guest, maybe you could help Carl to use his Mineoro detector?
Anyway I will understand whatever reasons you give to not do it.

Best regards.

[robert]

:razz: :razz: :lol: :lol:
"..they meet as both have qualities which will benefit each other."

Every living being on this planet have its own qualities....even you Hing!

But lies must be separated from truth! Once for good!

I wish all of you much health this summer!

Regards!
:|

[Clondike Clad]

Hung why don't you go and see carl at the show.

[hung]

Hung why don't you go and see carl at the show.

Impossible. I'm in Brazil.

[Dell Winders]

Maybe Carl, will pay your fare and expenses if he want's learn how and when to use the Mineoro? :lol:

[robert]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Clondike Clad]

Carl any more on the FG80 testing:razz:
I would like to know if you detected anything at this time.

[Carl-NC]

Haven't had much time to work with it lately...

[Clondike Clad]

Let us know if you got the thing to work

[Clondike Clad]

Anyone looked inside the FG80 pickup/transmit tube or ?
Is the pickup system in a vacuum?
Do the system have a high voltage on it?

[Max]

Anyone looked inside the FG80 pickup/transmit tube or ?
Is the pickup system in a vacuum?
Do the system have a high voltage on it?

Hi Clondike Clad,
I really don't know what's inside that stuff but guess there is some spark-gap-like arrangement, with plated by gold electrodes.
And I think vacuum has nothing to do with this device...if you mean how device is manifactured...

As always, just my thoughts. ;)

Best regards,
Max

[Clondike Clad]

Ok do anyone have more testing of the FG80 or the insides of the sensor,
I would like to know how the sensor is made.
Is the FG80 a AM,FM, PLUSE OR DIGITAL pickup unit or transmitter?