View Full Version : Expedition Update
Status of current situation:
I am presently back to get the right equipment and logistics after we have laid out a plan of recovery from the site we found.
We have detected according to our experience in beeping patterns from Mineoros, what seems to be a ‘man made treasure’ .
It’s located inside a cave which is partialy submersed. Detectors used at the time included a MP10 (it was not used), 3 FG80s and a PDC 210. One of our team members introduced a Rangertell Examiner. All detectors clearly marked the location. The FG80s started to mark from about 900 feet. The Examiner, from three times that, since it’s some sort of dowsing rod with programable frequencies. Nice tool but unfortunately could not be employed near and inside the cave due to the conditions met. The directional ionic ones (FG80) proved to be the right tool.
During the expedition the PDC210 got smashed and turned into pieces. This fact caused an agravation on my partner’s ulcer problem. He was the owner of that PDC, by the way.
We set the detectors from several angles to determine the origin of signal through triangulation. Later I dove in the river to reach the almost subaquatic cave with a clearance of only 2 ½ feet to the cave’s ceiling. I took the FG there floating it over a platform and although not an easy task to maneuver acess, I could pinpoint the exact location. It’s inside a wall and not at the ground. This confirmed what we thought when positioning the detectors at distance. Thanks to the infrared sensor.
We also had to block manage 2 of 3 - 40 feet waterfalls in the area. We considered a subaquatic recovery, but water visibility is terrible, no more than a few inches ahead even when a diving flash light was employed by me due to heavy sediments in the river. My diving equipment proved almost useless there.
The site is really remote, no telephone signals. The owner of the land is a farmer who lives there, away from the closest city, which has only one street and lies at 12 miles away. We negociated with him and now have all his support.
Due to the conditions faced and to the strategy to employ, we decided to abort the expedition in order to actually start the recovery operation which now demands money and equipment. We intend to return there a week after the end of the year hollydays.
We plan to raise a special configuration contention barricade using sand bags and pump the water out of the location using several motorised pumps and rechanel the water by heavy pipes. We will also need to set a crane system on top of the hill to lower the heavy sandbags there. Location is full of huge savage beetles (hundreds of them), spiders, etc. Typical rain forrest. Hard work under low conditions. How’s that compared to the ‘THunters who make virtual expeditions sitting in front of computers all day’, eh?
Altough there is a lot more to be said, I’m not allowed to disclose more info.
The main point is the experience I gained using the FG80 and now knowing its exact reaction and capability quite well. It's a highly trustable tool indeed..
PS. Upon my return, talking to Damasio on the phone, I came to know about Mr. Crespin dos Santos Nunes, a brazilian who detected gold nuggets with the FG80 recently.
It’s on their site now.
http://www.mineoro.com/treasure/findings_crespin.htm (http://www.mineoro.com/treasure/findings_crespin.htm)
Hey, nice to be back . But won’t have much time for talking here. Family , equipment acquisition and lots of work to do demand my time.
As for pictures of findings, it will have to wait till january…
Meanwhile have fun with those.
Dell Winders
12-13-2006, 03:07 AM
Welcome back Hung. As you can see there hasn't been much activity here without you. If the Skeptic cult doesn't have some one to bash and critize they have nothing else to contribute.
I just returned from Alabama, & Tennessee, but it was not a product trip. The property owner become greedy, and decided I was getting too big of a share and wanted to change the agreement aparently thinking that after all the time & expense I put into the project and travelled there to ground truth the site, that I would gratefully accept any pittance he offered. The tactic didn't work, and I walked away from the project. Nobody wins!
I briefly looked at the photos you posted and I see no entrance to the cave system you are looking for thru the underwater submerged cave. I think that would be a dead end search and wasted money trying to get into the cave system from that approach.
There appears to be a small entrance about half way up the cliff concealed by rock. The cave/tunnel appears to go straight back, with branches to the left & right with the Gold placed in numerous small deposits (about 5 lbs. ea) throughout the cave/tunnel system. There also appears to be some caches of Silver coins inside.
I suspect there is another concealed entrance on top of, and back from the bluff. Also a word of caution to be aware of primitive death traps.
Thanks for sharing the first part of your adventure. Dell
goldfvr
12-13-2006, 03:18 AM
Dell how do you know the nature and placement of the cache or caches for Hung's location... Did you dowse the picture ??? Sorry to hear about your
mishap on your trip...
Hung, please be careful out there... Those kind of traps can be deadly, especially the ones set by the spainish... This is your freind from California that just sent you an email about the FG80...
michael
12-13-2006, 06:37 AM
Hi Hung, happy and nice you're back. I know these kind of expedition and activities are so much hard and you have really endangered your life. I agree with Dell there can be another entrance as the ancient people were so much smart considered and figured every thing. in most of these cases they concealed treasure from easy way ( another entrance) then closed there. If you were them, would you take treasure from impassable or arduous way?
We have a map for 5 vary big jars of gold coins in a cave and after 1 year searching with help of one native guide could find the entrance it was a really ancient cave, but wisdom couldn't accept jars had been carried from the entrance. the map had mentioned to many ways in cave... one way passed from a brook with cold water....
after confirming cave, we outfitted to enter cave with all necessary tools went about 50 meters on all fours ... unfortunately cave was closed for collapsed huge stones,.... the guide told that natives believe there is another entrance with indistinct location, we never found it....
anyway I hope and wish best successes for you.
Regardless of your satisfactory, I have many questions and ambiguities and seriously need to some golden leading points. How you're satisfied, and me and other owners complained?
please see my experiences in thread "I now own a mineoro FG80". I will email you my 3rd experience and many questions, please do favor lead me, now it seems there is no expert for using mineoro in the firm to answer us, you do it.
I failed to find any “update” here. Seems to be the same “didn’t recover anything” report LRL operators/salesmen give.
It’s a pleasure for me to talk again to great people as you guys here.
Dell: Thanks a lot for your precious information. It will be considered. Although I cannot reveal much due to secrecy promised among our group, I can say that later we had acess to old documents which back us up and confirms what the detectors showed. As for the cave, it’s 38 feet long. We got inside and took measurements. Halfway trough there’s a slight curve to the right which makes it almost L shape. Since I’m also the diver in the group, I was the first one to go inside and found the water level ends about halfway when all of a sudden the water became shallow and I ended up stuck in a sand/sediment bank. Thus the last portion of the cave is pile of sediment , branches, bushes, etc. taken inside by rain and streams. The document tells how they did it to hide the gold there. They had slaves and indians in the ancient times shifting the course of the river up high the mountain. This made the river course be changed to a portion of the forrest and allowed them to work trouble free, since that portion of the lake sector dried. There were no government's environmental inspectors at the time. Imagine if we decided to do the same now ! In a matter of 20 minutes after the river stream had drained down the path to other cities in the region, there would be hellicopters flying all over our heads!
You might be right on your survey envisioning another small acess. In fact there’s a small entrance at the right of the cave’s entrance which seems to have suffered land sliding trough the years.
Goldfvr: I know who you are. We are concerned about the dangers which might wait for us inside, in this case set by the portuguese. But someone’s gotta do it…
Michael: I’m aware of your relative difficulty experienced since I’ve already read some of your posts. And I must confess I’m a little surprised you did not suceed in finding something yet considering the region you live…
What I can say is that you are still knowing how to deal with the detector. This demands practice and strive. Again, it’s all a matter of enhancing calibration and some experience in the field. I know this because I come from a long time PDC user. We can trade some tips by email.
Esteban
12-13-2006, 08:54 PM
Hung, nice to hear you. Since February the 1st I'll try the FG80 and I'll post results about it. I assume was dangerous your expedition. What about try the FG 80 in Serra Pelada? There are still gold in this site?
ivconic
12-13-2006, 09:29 PM
:)
Welcome Hung! Nice to have you here again!
I do not want to make any comment on this but to post picture and remind people on one device mentioned here...
regards
:)
:eek:
" The Examiner, from three times that..."
Dell, is it bashing when i repeat that mentioned device is a scum,bogus???
When Hung comes here and claim that "The Examiner, from three times that...."well,
How can man trust him and accept Hung as serious man?
Anyway,welcome Hung!
This forum is not same place without you...
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
What about try the FG 80 in Serra Pelada? There are still gold in this site?
Maybe there is some left. Problem is the bandits who live there... Really 'nice' people...
Esteban, I sent you an email about a subject I wish to discuss with you.
Thanks for the compliments Ivconic and Sony. The forum is made up of everybody here actually.
About the examiner, I see it's a simple circuit. But the one I saw there looks completely different from the picture above and also I was told the new model works on diodes.
Anyway if it's not a dowsing rod it acts like one. I saw it working . It is quick on pointing the gold's direction and resembles a compass needle. And we all know those kind of devices have a tremendous range. Don't know about how precise they are. In my opinion it's a good tool to point a direction to start.
ivconic
12-14-2006, 01:57 AM
:confused:
If that so than it will be interesting to examine that device!
If is it possible you to make some photos of that device and post here?
It will open quite new discussuion about those,also can clear up a bit some doubts...
Photos Carl posted in his report cleary shows bogus device..
I would be so glad to see another story here!
regards
:)
...And we all know those kind of devices have a tremendous range.
No, we all do not know these devices have a tremendous range. In all appearances, the only ones that do make these claims are those who try to sell this C.R.A.P.,as there is no proof that they even work.
:confused:
If that so than it will be interesting to examine that device!
If is it possible you to make some photos of that device and post here?
It will open quite new discussuion about those,also can clear up a bit some doubts...
Photos Carl posted in his report cleary shows bogus device..
I would be so glad to see another story here!
regards
:)
Well he is from another region. In january when we meet again I can take some pictures, but if I remember well, the circuit box is light gray and there's a Hewlett Packard calculator on top. Why don't you follow the schematics on that report and assemble it yourself? So you could make you own conclusions in detail and share with us. You have a great electronics background and this would be easy for you.
Qiaozhi
12-15-2006, 11:28 AM
... I was told the new model works on diodes.
What does that mean? :confused: :confused:
... but if I remember well, the circuit box is light gray and there's a Hewlett Packard calculator on top.
So it's not that different then? Just a more expensive calculator. :eek:
Previously I posted some pseudoscientific gobbledygook about the operation of the Examiner, which was completely bogus. It was something I made up. Somebody then actually put that information on the manufacturer's website to explain the method of operation. How stupid is that?
What does that mean? :confused: :confused:
So it's not that different then? Just a more expensive calculator. :eek:
Previously I posted some pseudoscientific gobbledygook about the operation of the Examiner, which was completely bogus. It was something I made up. Somebody then actually put that information on the manufacturer's website to explain the method of operation. How stupid is that?
Maybe your 'stupid post' is correct? :D
Qiaozhi
12-15-2006, 11:47 PM
Maybe your 'stupid post' is correct? :D
No - it was just gobbledygook. :D :D
Just like the "stupid" idea of ionic detection. :rolleyes:
These detectors operate by sensing the presence of gravitons. Gravitons are highly directional, long lived quantum mechanical particles that are generated by very dense masses.
Black holes and Quasars emit large quantities of gravitons and planet earth is literally bathed in them. Large, massive earth bound objects, such as gold also emit gravitons, so the key is being able to discern wether the graviton source is earth bound or galactic in nature. Well, it turns out that galactic and extra galactic gravitons are "red shifted" during their travel to earth by an amount proportional to their originating distance from us, as postulated by Edwin Hubble.
So, in principle, all the detector needs to do is to discriminate out the red shifted gravitons and detect the locally generated gravitons.
goldfvr
12-16-2006, 03:14 AM
Gravitons and experiments
Detecting a graviton, if it exists, would prove rather problematic. Because the gravitational force is so incredibly weak, as of today, physicists are not even able to directly verify the existence of gravitational waves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_waves), as predicted by general relativity. (Many people are surprised to learn that gravity is the weakest force. The dominance of gravity at large scales is due to the fact that the nuclear forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_force) have a limited range, and the electromagnetic force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_force) often largely cancels due to the existence of positive and negative charges (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_charge). In contrast, gravitational charge -- i.e., mass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass) -- is positive for all known forms of matter.)
Gravitational waves may be viewed as coherent states (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherent_state) of many gravitons, much like the electromagnetic waves are coherent states of photons. Projects that should find the gravitational waves, such as LIGO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIGO) and VIRGO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIRGO), are just getting started
Qiaozhi
12-16-2006, 11:04 AM
These detectors operate by sensing the presence of gravitons. Gravitons are highly directional, long lived quantum mechanical particles that are generated by very dense masses.
Black holes and Quasars emit large quantities of gravitons and planet earth is literally bathed in them. Large, massive earth bound objects, such as gold also emit gravitons, so the key is being able to discern wether the graviton source is earth bound or galactic in nature. Well, it turns out that galactic and extra galactic gravitons are "red shifted" during their travel to earth by an amount proportional to their originating distance from us, as postulated by Edwin Hubble.
So, in principle, all the detector needs to do is to discriminate out the red shifted gravitons and detect the locally generated gravitons.
That's an even worse hypothesis than ionic detection! :eek:
As goldfvr says, gravitons are hypothetical virtual particles, according to quantum theory. Their existence is yet to be verified. The Mineoro only detects random electromagnetic noise, and not ions from longtime buried gold (as these don't exist), or gravitons for that matter. You might as well use a set of Tarot cards or read some tea leaves. :D
That's an even worse hypothesis than ionic detection! :eek:
As goldfvr says, gravitons are hypothetical virtual particles, according to quantum theory. Their existence is yet to be verified. The Mineoro only detects random electromagnetic noise, and not ions from longtime buried gold (as these don't exist), or gravitons for that matter. You might as well use a set of Tarot cards or read some tea leaves. :D
Can you spell facetious? ;)
Can you spell facetious? ;)
Good one ;)
Qiaozhi
12-17-2006, 08:18 PM
Can you spell facetious? ;)
What is this British humour coming from CA? :cool:
Next thing, you'll be telling me that "naive" is not in the dictionary. :D
What is this British humour coming from CA? :cool:
Next thing, you'll be telling me that "naive" is not in the dictionary. :D
Naw, I just wanted to up the ante on the technobabble used to
describe how these LRLs are supposed to work. :)
The Mineoro only detects random electromagnetic noise, and not ions from longtime buried gold (as these don't exist), :D
He,he,he.. Another 'preciousness' from you..
If in January we suceed to recover the gold detected and I show pictures here will you still be raising this same 'motto'?:rolleyes:
By the way, what Rudy points out although no exactly 'gravitons' , is close to describe one aspect of the phenomena.
Amazing as a newbie like him pointed this out in the right direction unlike many here who through tons of posts still seem to be 'lost in space'...
He,he,he.. Another 'preciousness' from you..
If in January we suceed to recover the gold detected and I show pictures here will you still be raising this same 'motto'?:rolleyes:
Dowsers Code. Detected gold, but didn't dig it up. :::rolls eyes:::
Naw, I just wanted to up the ante on the technobabble used to
describe how these LRLs are supposed to work. :)
Seems to be working :::snickers:::
Dowsers Code. Detected gold, but didn't dig it up. :::rolls eyes:::
Well... Actually you don't have to rely on me. Read bomberman's post in the other forum 'RF Type like DCHs' and all the findings section at Mineoro's website.
We are not dowsers.
Qiaozhi
12-18-2006, 09:23 PM
He,he,he.. Another 'preciousness' from you..
If in January we suceed to recover the gold detected and I show pictures here will you still be raising this same 'motto'?:rolleyes:
If any gold is recovered it will be because you did some proper research on this location, and determined with a high probablility that treasure has been secreted there. It will have nothing to do with the pseudoscientific nonsense of detecting gold ions from longtime buried gold.
Qiaozhi
12-18-2006, 09:28 PM
By the way, what Rudy points out although no exactly 'gravitons' , is close to describe one aspect of the phenomena.
Amazing as a newbie like him pointed this out in the right direction unlike many here who through tons of posts still seem to be 'lost in space'...
Perhaps it was you that posted the Examiner gobbledygook on their website as a plausible explanation of it's operation. :rolleyes:
Rudy's post was being sarcastic. Also known as "taking the ****". :D
Don't believe everything you read, especially from a "newbie". :p
If any gold is recovered it will be because you did some proper research on this location, and determined with a high probablility that treasure has been secreted there. It will have nothing to do with the pseudoscientific nonsense of detecting gold ions from longtime buried gold.
I strongly refute the misleading argument you just posted. Don't try to mislead the readers here with such incorrect information.
WE SEARCHED THE WHOLE AREA WITH THE DETECTORS UNTIL WE FOUND THIS SITE EXCLUSIVELY USING THE MINEORO IONIC DETECTORS. THE RANGERTELL DEVICE ONLY GAVE THE DIRECTION TO FOLLOW.
AFTER WE HAVE ABORTED THE OPERATION AS ALREADY EXPLAINED IS THAT WE HAD ACESS TO DOCUMENTS WHICH SUGGESTED EVENTS RELATED IN THE REGION AND THUS POSSIBLY EXPLAINING WHAT WE HAVE DETECTED.
AGAIN: THE SITE WAS DISCOVERED EXCLUSIVELY USING THE DETECTORS. WE DON'T KNOW YET WHAT LIES INSIDE THE CAVE. BUT I'M POSITIVE THERE'S GOLD FOR MY EXPERIENCE WITH THE DEVICES AND ALSO BECAUSE THE DEVICES ARE PROGRAMED TO DETECT SUCH.
DON'T TWIST THE FACTS!:mad:
Qiaozhi
12-19-2006, 12:15 AM
I strongly refute the misleading argument you just posted. Don't try to mislead the readers here with such incorrect information.
WE SEARCHED THE WHOLE AREA WITH THE DETECTORS UNTIL WE FOUND THIS SITE EXCLUSIVELY USING THE MINEORO IONIC DETECTORS. THE RANGERTELL DEVICE ONLY GAVE THE DIRECTION TO FOLLOW.
AFTER WE HAVE ABORTED THE OPERATION AS ALREADY EXPLAINED IS THAT WE HAD ACESS TO DOCUMENTS WHICH SUGGESTED EVENTS RELATED IN THE REGION AND THUS POSSIBLY EXPLAINING WHAT WE HAVE DETECTED.
AGAIN: THE SITE WAS DISCOVERED EXCLUSIVELY USING THE DETECTORS. WE DON'T KNOW YET WHAT LIES INSIDE THE CAVE. BUT I'M POSITIVE THERE'S GOLD FOR MY EXPERIENCE WITH THE DEVICES AND ALSO BECAUSE THE DEVICES ARE PROGRAMED TO DETECT SUCH.
DON'T TWIST THE FACTS!:mad:
When you want to test the depth of a stream, don't use both feet. :rolleyes:
By the way, what Rudy points out although no exactly 'gravitons' , is close to describe one aspect of the phenomena.
Amazing as a newbie like him pointed this out in the right direction unlike many here who through tons of posts still seem to be 'lost in space'...
I may be a newbie on this forum, but not a newbie in detecting or in the sciences I assure you. Got several US Patent plaques haging on my den
wall and a pretty fair understanding of physics and electronics. :)
I chose gravitons purely because although theoretically possible, their existence remains elusive at best. And to impute that a hand held device with a cheap calculator strapped on top of it, is capable of detecting a gravitational disturbance from a local change in mass at such distances is .... well, absurd.:rolleyes:
Carl-NC
12-19-2006, 05:12 AM
And to impute that a hand held device with a cheap calculator strapped on top of it, is capable of detecting a gravitational disturbance from a local change in mass at such distances is .... well, absurd.:rolleyes:
Demonstrating absurdity by being absurd... is generally lost on those who believe in the absurd.
- Carl
Carl-NC
12-19-2006, 05:28 AM
About the examiner, I see it's a simple circuit. But the one I saw there looks completely different from the picture above and also I was told the new model works on diodes.
Anyway if it's not a dowsing rod it acts like one. I saw it working . It is quick on pointing the gold's direction and resembles a compass needle. And we all know those kind of devices have a tremendous range. Don't know about how precise they are. In my opinion it's a good tool to point a direction to start.
Hung, of all the LRLs being sold today -- I would even argue of all the LRLs EVER sold -- the RangerTell Examiner is the most blatantly fraudulent. To some degree, I empathize with people who get fooled by dowsing devices, because the ideomotor response is very compelling. But to believe that a calculator taped to a dowsing rod will magically generate a signal, based on a key-entry, that will detect gold a mile away... well, you either have to be very, very gullible, or very stupid.
And, no, a random combination of circuit devices that is different from an earlier random combination of circuit devices, that didn't do anything in the first place, will not change the results. The Examiner is a joke, produced by a total nutcase.
- Carl
Qiaozhi
12-19-2006, 10:04 AM
AGAIN: THE SITE WAS DISCOVERED EXCLUSIVELY USING THE DETECTORS. WE DON'T KNOW YET WHAT LIES INSIDE THE CAVE. BUT I'M POSITIVE THERE'S GOLD FOR MY EXPERIENCE WITH THE DEVICES AND ALSO BECAUSE THE DEVICES ARE PROGRAMED TO DETECT SUCH. :mad:
Are you telling me that you did absolutely no research on this area? You simply wandered around the rain forest following random beeps until you tricked yourself into believing they were coming from a particular location.
We are not dowsers.
You didn't use the Examiner after all then?
This is an electronic dowsing device. The whole basis for your "discovery" is centered on beeps from a device that claims to detect something that doesn't exist (ions emitted from long time buried gold) and an electronic calculator taped to the top of a dowsing rod.
You are clearly neither an engineer nor a scientist, otherwise you would understand the stupidity of your quest. You are promoting pseudo-scientific nonsense on this forum, which is harmful to the less technical members here, especially if they spend hard-earned money to buy these useless devices.
Conventional metal detectors work every time they are turned on, regardless of who is using them. Ionic detection only "appears to work" when used by a "believer". Therefore it is obvious there is a physchological element at work here.
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance."
Qiaozhi
12-19-2006, 10:21 AM
I may be a newbie on this forum, but not a newbie in detecting or in the sciences I assure you. Got several US Patent plaques haging on my den
wall and a pretty fair understanding of physics and electronics. :)
I chose gravitons purely because although theoretically possible, their existence remains elusive at best. And to impute that a hand held device with a cheap calculator strapped on top of it, is capable of detecting a gravitational disturbance from a local change in mass at such distances is .... well, absurd.:rolleyes:
Hi Rudy,
Your contribution is most welcome!
I wasn't certain when you posted your graviton theory, whether it was serious or not. We've had some pretty crazy ideas put forward in the past. You may need to turn down the sarcasm level a bit, as sometimes other members can misinterpret the technobabble as fact. I know, as this happened to me. :eek:
As Carl correctly points out, subtle sarcasm is often lost on these people. The majority here do not have a good grasp of English, and many have either limited knowledge of electronics or are in the process of learning. All are welcome here - even those who believe in the absurd. :)
But - if anyone posts nonsense (especially if it's designed to con innocent people) - don't expect any mercy. ;)
Are you telling me that you did absolutely no research on this area? You simply wandered around the rain forest following random beeps until you tricked yourself into believing they were coming from a particular location.
You didn't use the Examiner after all then?
This is an electronic dowsing device. The whole basis for your "discovery" is centered on beeps from a device that claims to detect something that doesn't exist (ions emitted from long time buried gold) and an electronic calculator taped to the top of a dowsing rod.
You are clearly neither an engineer nor a scientist, otherwise you would understand the stupidity of your quest. You are promoting pseudo-scientific nonsense on this forum, which is harmful to the less technical members here, especially if they spend hard-earned money to buy these useless devices.
Conventional metal detectors work every time they are turned on, regardless of who is using them. Ionic detection only "appears to work" when used by a "believer". Therefore it is obvious there is a physchological element at work here.
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance."
I have said it before, and I will say it again. This guy is somehow affiliated with Mineoro or the LRL industry. That is the only way they could come up with the most unbelievable BS about this fraudulent C.R.A.P.
Hung, of all the LRLs being sold today -- I would even argue of all the LRLs EVER sold -- the RangerTell Examiner is the most blatantly fraudulent. To some degree, I empathize with people who get fooled by dowsing devices, because the ideomotor response is very compelling. But to believe that a calculator taped to a dowsing rod will magically generate a signal, based on a key-entry, that will detect gold a mile away... well, you either have to be very, very gullible, or very stupid.
And, no, a random combination of circuit devices that is different from an earlier random combination of circuit devices, that didn't do anything in the first place, will not change the results. The Examiner is a joke, produced by a total nutcase.
- Carl
Carl, I agree with you. At least on this one. Although the Mineoros are all electronic devices and I stand by them, the rangertell device lacks electronics to be considered such. That’s why I think it’s some kind of dowsing rod. But, is the calculator a major factor on it? I don’t know. It could be. What he did was to enter some numbers on the calculator and turn the knob a little. The antenna pointed to one direction. Then he turned the knob to a higher value I think and the antenna swung to another direction. He then said this one was worth to follow. After some time walking, the detectors started to beep. Coincidence? I would not think so. I did not investigate the rangertell closely as we did not have time for this. Maybe next time.
A dowsing rod supposedly utilizes the body’s frequency, energy, mind, etc. Some believe them. Some don’t. This debate apparently will never end.
Anyway, I don’t want to discuss about rangertell and start a debate about this here as I opened up this thread to tell my experiences on this expedition. If someone wishes to discuss this dowsing subject I plitely invite them to open another thread.
Qiaozhi : The region we explored is a big one with several farms. Actually this is one of the three locations we decided to explore this next year. One of the researchers has heard stories about the location. We had no previous research in the area. All of this happened exclusively with the detectors. The rangertell gave a direction and we followed it. We got lucky.
Conventional MD work every time they are turned on. So do the Mineoro ionic detectors. I don't see the point here..
Regular MDs also detect aluminum pulltabs and all sort of trash also. Besides they have a terrible depth range. Well afterall they are just that... Conventional metal detectors.
Also I was relating what Rudy said to the Mineoros and not to the examiner.
But I notice that he unconsciously made good points.
Hung you are amazing.....
.... so many members participating, new members registering, countless posts,... about NOTHING?!?
Oh yes :eek: Portuguese death traps :eek: huge savage beetles :eek: underwater caves :eek: shifting the course of the river :eek: and lots of suspected gold with special C.R.A.P. devices :eek:.
You should make a movie.
P.S. For naives: I'm sarcastic here.
<SNIP>
Conventional MD work every time they are turned on. So do the Mineoro ionic detectors. I don't see the point here..
Regular MDs also detect aluminum pulltabs and all sort of trash also. Besides they have a terrible depth range. Well afterall they are just that... Conventional metal detectors.
Also I was relating what Rudy said to the Mineoros and not to the examiner.
But I notice that he unconsciously made good points.
Ohh boy, is this fun. :)
Given than an ion is really an atom that is missing one or more electrons from the outer shell, there are a few questions that ought to be answered.
What natual phenomena causes a body of gold to have a significant number of its atoms to spontaneously ionize and at the same time be expelled from the main body, to land on one of these LRL widgets so it can be detected?
No known natural mechanisms exist.
If it is not the ions themselves that are being detected (since they are not being created by any natural phenomena), then what is being detected that presumably is coming from the body of gold?
Not many choices here.
Obviously, in order for whatever it is to get from the source (the gold?) to the destination (the LRL), over the claimed vast distances and through rocks and other solid objects, it must have to be some sort of electromagnetic radiation and not atomic particles (ions).
Ions would not be able to make the travel as they would be quickly scattered by collisions with other atoms and would quickly lose their momentum and ... stop. Even if they were somehow created in a manner that defies the known physical laws.
We must quickly conclude that ionic detection is not a viable explanation. Ions are not being spontaneously created at any significant rate and even if they were, they would not be able to travel over the claimed distance.
So, we have to go back to electromagnetic radiation of some kind as the only possible path to explain how an LRL could detect gold. There is the rub.
A metal detector expends a lot of energy (from its batteries) to inject an electromagnetic field into the ground matrix in the hope of exciting eddy currents in a conductive target. The eddy currents produce a counter electromagnetic field of their own which is what the detector detects.
Alas, as Hung pointed out, in spite of all that energy expenditure, the detection depth is limited to a few inches at best.
So, if the gold was emitting an electomagnetic field that is detectable over vast distances, it would have to have an energy source considerably more powerful than what our metal detectors produce. Where is that energy coming from? How is the gold generating the field (after all, it doesn't have any electronic components to do it with)? Why doesn't the gold melt from the eddy currents it is generating in the process of creating this field?
In short, there is no plausible explanation for how the gold can generate a signal of any kind that could be detected at any distance, and there is no plausible explanation of how an LRL could detect a signal that is not there.
Seden
12-20-2006, 04:41 AM
Rudy,
Glad to see you're an MXT owner like me as that's the best VLF I've owned and I owned quite a few.
There is an infinate amount of power in the ground via Telluric Currents or possibly Millimeter Wave radiation at which gold radiates at about 249GHZ. But is this what's powering LRL's or dowsing rods? Beats the heck out of me Leutinant. I'm just letting you know these are a couple known sources of naturally occuring energy.
Now back to the MXT, have you tried the 14" or 18"DD coils that Kellyco sells? I would like to nugget hunt and would be curious to how deep you could go with one of these.
Randy
Rudy,
If you aproach the 'ionic' subject from a limited perspective, you will get a limited conclusion as of certain.
Anyway, your inferences are way off topic of the original thread. I kindly ask you and Carl to move these subjects to another topic or thread in which those subjects can be discussed leaving the original topic intact.
Thanks in advance.
Qiaozhi
12-20-2006, 09:06 PM
I kindly ask you and Carl to move these subjects to another topic or thread in which those subjects can be discussed leaving the original topic intact.
Thanks in advance.
Why?
Everything said so far is relevant to your expedition update. Or do you think our criticsim of your choice of detecting method will undermine the Mineoro marketing message? :rolleyes:
goldfvr
12-20-2006, 10:14 PM
Rudy,
Glad to see you're an MXT owner like me as that's the best VLF I've owned and I owned quite a few.
There is an infinate amount of power in the ground via Telluric Currents or possibly Millimeter Wave radiation at which gold radiates at about 249GHZ. But is this what's powering LRL's or dowsing rods? Beats the heck out of me Leutinant. I'm just letting you know these are a couple known sources of naturally occuring energy.
Now back to the MXT, have you tried the 14" or 18"DD coils that Kellyco sells? I would like to nugget hunt and would be curious to how deep you could go with one of these.
Randy
Now this is really off topic... sorry Hung... but Randy I own an MXT detector as well and it is by far the best all-around detector I have owned...
But if you are looking for a pure VLF nugget shooter than you have better options like White's gold master...
Also have a Minelab 3500 and that is for sure the king of nugget shooters.. for now anyways
Hung,
Sorry, but you are the one that brought up ionic detection in a previous post. I was just describing how such a concept is physically impossible based on the properties of an ion (of gold in this case). I would gladly listen to your rebuttal, based on a "less limited perspective" -- as long as it is factual. :)
Randy,
Telluric currents flow all over the earth upper crust. They are induced by solar winds interacting with the ionosphere, plus some man made leakage currents. However, they are extremely low frequency in nature, ranging from 0.001 to 5 Hz. As such, the small puny antennas mounted on the typical LRL would not be able to detect them because of the huge mismatch between the Telluric wavelength and the LRL receiving antenna. Anyway, it wouldn't explain how the gold itself would somehow modify the Telluric currents to produce an identifiable signature different from the surrounding earth mass.
With regards to millimeter wave radiation, I don't quite get what you are saying. Why / how does gold at near room temperature radiate in the millimeter wave region?
PS: I don't use K'Cos coils. Did have a 1400DD, but it was too heavy and sold it.
ivconic
12-21-2006, 04:49 AM
:confused: :rolleyes:
"ideomotor response"
This is probably shortest combination of terms for naming so known and present
phenomena in this matter.I am huge sceptic in those things,but yet i meet a lot
of people arround having strong beliefs in LRL&dowsing generally.
I was trying so many times to explain this phenomena,first to my self than to
others. Yet,without success! Odds,rods,tensors and simillar should play role of
simple "antenna",while human body should be "receiver",in that case. Ideomotor
responding than,and man,holding some LRL tool in his hands,unknowingly by subtle
muscle movements,provoke that LRL tool to "do the job".
I used to call this phenomena "skills" so far.From now i have better name for it-
"ideomoteor response".
If this theory of mine is true,than it is maybe possible that some dowsers are
capable of finding items.
Only this way, Examiner can "do the job",no other way! Therefore any other passive
tool could done same job as Examiner,that day.All of this i am JUST PRESUMING NOT
CLAIMING.I am just trying to make some sence from all of this.....
But this theory covers only "passive" tools like odds and rods. What about electronic
devices like mineoro?
Mineoro is non-working device, still, in my hands...
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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