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Carl-NC

10-06-2006, 01:53 AM

The following email was received 9/27/2006. It was sent as a Word document attachment, so I have reproduced it here as closely as possible.

mineoro ™

From: MINEORO ®
DAMÁSIO, J.P.F.
To: Eng. Carl Moreland

EXORDIUM

This is the second time I am addressing to you. The first time I tried to briefly explain the ‘ionic/electrostatic’ phenomena.
This is a “Damasio&Alonso” ™ scientific discovery, properly registered and filed and partly still unknown by the International Scientific Community.
Albert Einstein, the great genius, once refering to this phenomenon said - “Science will have to deal with this phenomenon”.
I am sending this message with one aim. To clarify certain discomforts occurring in several countries due to the unfair approach your forum site : http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/
covers the detectors from mineoro ™.

Before entering this subject, the topics will be parted for ease of editing in order to make the theme intelligible.
TOPICS:
1. Introduction – Exordium;
2. Comprising Coment;
3. Who we are;
4. Of Science and Technology;
5. From the Academies; From Universities;
6. The inventions;
7. About the ethics of your site ‘Geotech’;
8. Legal issues; Legislations; International Treatises; The
© Copyright;
COMPRISING COMENT:

As referred in Exordium, there are several negative comments; countless questions; negative critics; unacceptable ethics; and more, towards the “mineoro” ™ Trade mark as well as the involvement of my own name Damásio – which unacceptable statements have origin in http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/
administered by you.
It’s away from my knowledge the reason why Eng.Carl Morelandcreated such tool for these objurgations.
However in such site, several articles and isolated paragraphs about the “MINEORO”® corporation and his founder: Damásio, J.P.F. can be found. Comments and inferences about the long range locators operated by the “Ionic/Electrostatic”® phenomena.
Although some written material are positive, the major part sums bitter critics, pejorative and disrespectful inferences. Some even criminal by its intent. In face of this annoying situation, and as the director of my company, I come forward to manifest myself and to analyze every topic published in your site.

WHO WE ARE

THE MINEORO ® CORP.

MINEORO – Indústria Eletrônica Ltda., is a company situated in Brazil with its existence dating back to 1954. It manufactures electronic security systems. Security revolving doors, metal detectors (Arcos), security electronic cabins and other related products.
We produce and manufacture metal detectors for miners and treasure hunting since 1954. They are ‘two-boxes’ and coil models. The long range directional locators exist since 1985 with the launching of the DCH85M. In Brazil, we have thousands and thousands of revolving doors with portal type metal detectors granting bank security. Statistics show that 45,000,000 (forty five million) people pass though those doors daily. We export those systems to many countries. This is a ‘family-like’ organization.
The registered trademark of “MINEORO” ® is therefore a public well-kown trademark not only in Brazil but overseas as well.

Our industrial plant is provided with 3 (three) electronics and technology labs, 1 (one) carpenter workshop for furniture production with 42 top of line machines, 1 mechanics workshop with lathes, press, electric drillers and all adequate tools to projects and industrial production as well as all industrial and commercial structure in a 16,000 square feet plant. We have more than 100 employees who work on a daily basis. This is the internal environment of “MINEORO” ®.
In the outside area we have more than 25 offices with technicians and in charge managers for sales and post sales. The company is run by the family Damásio. Sons and Grandsons.

ABOUT SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

The administrators of this organization have long been intellectuals who covered higher education, entailed to University and College under several countries’ official support. In 1984 , we presented the new invention to NASA, being examined at the time by north american and foreign scientists. Several NASA scientists agreed to recognize it was a new phenomenon which deserved an in depth study.

In the 1980 decade, we were honored with a formal ‘mention’ by the american military ‘attaché’ for the south american hemisphere Cel. Wallis, referred by the White House, with a special commend to inventors Alonso&Damásio.
This american officer joined the inventors with also a research group which among others a British Councellor, Mr. John Baldwin, descendent of the Baldwin noble family, took part.
In the researched site 30 (thirty) targets were detected in 10(ten) minutes! When excavated, several gold and silver pieces were recovered such as:
• Gold coins; gold brooches; silver jewelry and others –joining the group there was a 12 year old little boy who had an american made conventional VLF MD at the time. This boy happened to be Cel. Wallis’s son.
The american born officer Cel. Wallis, impressed at what he was witnessing regarding the results compared to the conventional detector shouted loud and clear:

“incredible, Mr. Damásio!”;
“wonderful, Mr. Damásio!”;
“I don’t belive, it’s incredible, Mr. Damásio!”The “ionic electrostátic”® detector used in this research was a prototype of the DCH85M, introduced to the international market in1985.

FROM ACADEMIES; FROM UNIVERSITIES

Knowing is the addition of Data collection that when interacting with intern agents generate Information, and those also intern agents generate Knowledge.
The collection of Knowledge, generates Wisdom.

SCIENCE divides the human activities in 3 (three) main areas :
1. Biomedical Science activities
2. Social Sciences activities and
3. Exact Sciences activities
We, from “MINEORO”®, belong to the Exact Sciences area. All project; all research activity; all hypothesis; all theory has to pursue Academy support. Without the Academy/Company interactions, any attempt in materializing an invention would be destined to failure.
So, that’s how we searched the Academy for the information to substantiate the great discovery for this new phenomenon we called:
• “Ionic/Electrostatic Field” ®.

OF THE INVENTIONS

Invention is the action from inventing or creating something new in the realms of science, technology or in the field of arts. It’s to search a mean or agent in order to reach an end, a new discovery with specific objectives.
The company “MINEORO” ® Corporation has estabilished a Premiss, which is:
• “To invent a sensor that was capable of receiving signals/waves derived from cosmic propagations, atmospheric propagations and also from propagations from the center of the Earth. Classify these signals/waves and determine from which substance this signal/wave is broadcasted.”
Today, September 17th, 2006, we inform that the inventors Damásio &Alonso worked in the past and still do for 50 plus years aiming to perfect the new phenomena’s concepts :
• “Ionic/Electrostatic Field” ®.
The long range electronic directional detectors were introduced to the international market in 1985. This first electronic model was called - DCH85M.
This model was built to detect the Ionic/electrostatic ® fields of 3 (three) substances: -
• gold, silver and copper; or these substances melted together.
In 1999, a new model was introduced to the international market. This was the PDC205. This particular device was more sensitive than the previous one. It used to detect at a greater distance and greater depth.
Then a pleasant surprise!
An Israeli army officer located the first big treasure using our Directional Detectors based on the “ionic/electrostatic” ® phenomenon:
• A gold statue measuring 5 (five) feet high, weighing around 660 (six hundred and sixty) pounds of solid gold.
DEPTH: - 84 (EIGHTY FOUR) FEET DEEP.
From this date on, march/2001, several targets were located with the directional detectors. In fact, hundreds of treasure researchers found countless sites containing gold bars, jewels, coins, boxes full of gold and silver objects, several gold veins. Several (more than six) big treasures were found in rivers and in the ocean. Shipwrecks dating back to 15th and 16th centuries.
There are also several researchers who found objects ranging from small to medium to big treasures but they want to remain anonymous for personal reasons. So far, this report is only part of the occurrences covering the daily dynamic basis of MINEORO’s ® daily routine. Some negative facts? Sure there are. Many, as we will cover next.

ABOUT THE ETHICS OF www.geotech.thunthing.com (http://www.geotech.thunthing.com/)

At - www.thunting.com/geotech/forums (http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/../forums) - featuring CARL MORELAND as administrator, several messages were posted acidly criticizing the MINEORO ® trademark as well as his inventor and co-inventor DAMÁSIO.
We have never until now received any inquiry asking for explanations or to scientifically clarify queries about our products and its concepts.
Being CARL MORELAND the site administrator and also an engineer as you claimed, and based on the fact previously stated that the DAMASIO family has a vocational background and has all answers supported by the Academy – College, Universities and Science related Foundations, we feel a terrible discomfort upon watching certain posts and related material found in your site above.

Serious, and they cause us extreme rejection, are comments by some people, supposedly members of this forum whom texts are unacceptable! Postings with no ethics whatsoever. Posts which demonstrate their authors far surpass the limits of ignorance.
It’s our policy: MINEORO ® does not answer letters, emails, and other messages if they do not meet the correct ethics, respect and most important, in the sciences realm. Being PHYSICS, in experimental science, each and every inquiry, doubt, etc is properly answered conforming the scientific knowledge.

END OF PART ONE

PART TWO

In this section we will cover the following topics:

1. Law and Rights; about International Legislation; about International Treatises;
about © Copyright.
2. The challenge from MINEORO ® :

US$ 50,000.00

WE WILL PAY US$ 50,000.00 (FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS) to whoever proves the directional detectors below:
• PDC 205;
• PDC 210;
• HC 300;
• DC 2008;
• FG 79; e,
• FG 80,
• IGD2005 (Ionic Electrostatic Inherent Gold Detector-just for gold)
• DIAS2005 (Ionic Electrostatic Inherent All Substances Detector)
Do not detect according theDamásio&Alonso © research method.
A contract will be signed between parts and properly published to the general public.
Looking forward to your answer.
Respectfully,
mineoro ©
DAMÁSIO, J. P. F.
DIRECTOR PRES.
TECNÓLOGO ENG.
INVENTOR

Carl-NC

10-06-2006, 01:54 AM

My reply, sent 9/28/2006:

Mr. Damásio,

In your "challenge", you state that:WE WILL PAY US$ 50,000.00 (FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS) to whoever proves the directional detectors below:

• PDC 205;
• PDC 210;
• HC 300;
• DC 2008;
• FG 79; e,
• FG 80,
• IGD2005 (Ionic Electrostatic Inherent Gold Detector-just for gold)
• DIAS2005 (Ionic Electrostatic Inherent All Substances Detector)

Do not detect according theDamásio&Alonso © research method.
This leaves plenty of wiggle-room. In the contract are you willing to state EXACTLY what the detector will detect (i.e., gold), and EXACTLY the physical method by which it operates?

Next, would you be willing to submit a unit to an independent 3rd party for testing and analysis? I suggest one of the NASA research centers, since you seem to be fond of NASA. I'm sure one of them has experts in ion detection.

If you are not willing to submit a unit for independent testing, then exactly what will you accept as proof? If I obtain a Mineoro device and conclusively show that it WILL NOT respond to ions or electric fields, is that sufficient? I also notice you did not include the GDM428 in the list. Will you explicitly allow it? What about other discontinued models?

Of course, the easiest model to debunk is the IGD2005, which is nothing but a silly dowsing rod. So if you'll agree to send an IGD2005 to a NASA expert, then I will find out who that person is, and we can proceed. I'll also post your letter on my forum, so that other Mineoro owners can apply for the challenge as well (it did not seem to be specific to me). I hope you don't surprise us with some kind of ridiculous "entry fee".

Finally, you never did get back with me on the $25,000 LRL challenge. I understand you will be visiting the US in the near future. I expect you will be eager to accept my challenge before you come, and demonstrate your device during your visit.

Regards,
Carl

I have received no reply from Mineoro. Perhaps this will be like their email "accepting" my $25,000 LRL Challenge... they'll just drop it, and refuse to reply.

In the unlikely case that Mineoro's offer is serious, then this would be a very easy $50,000 to win, and I would like to accept their challenge. I eagerly await their response.

- Carl

P.S. -- Mineoro's challenge is clearly open to everyone -- "to whoever proves" -- so anyone who owns a Mineoro (limited, I assume, to the models listed) can take them up on their offer.

okantex

10-06-2006, 08:13 AM

AFTER ı WROTE MY MASSAGE TO IVCONİC ,I READ THİS PRİCE LATTER.

SİNCE I SOLVE THE REALLYTY OF THİS DETECTİON.
THİS İS NOT MİNEORO'S CALİM'S.EVERYBODY SEE ,İT İS DİFFERENT.
SO ,WİTH A DİFFERENT THEORY.I AM THE OWNER OF 50,000 DOLLARS

DOMASİO ,I WAİTİNG FOR REWARD.

"IF YOU SAY YOUR THEORY İS WRONG WHİCH İS ALSO MEANS
EMFAD İS NOT WORKİNG."
NO YOU CAN NOT CLAİM SUCH A BOGUS
EVERYBODY KNOW İT İS WORKİNG AS DİRECTİONAL RECİEVER

************************************************** *****

Hi Ivconic ,Esteban and Michael,
I was thinking about zahori
and emfad
you know emfad recieves signals reflected by metals .it has directional
antenna that just recieves from underground.while passing over target.
it is a wide range reciever and gets different frequencies at the same time
.
adjustment of EMFAD from
http://ammann-direkt.de/assets/s2dma...ac1067105.html (http://ammann-direkt.de/assets/s2dmain.html?http://ammann-direkt.de/50310395a80665914/50310396ac1062e01/50310396ac1067105.html)

"
Use the tuning knob ‘B’ to detect a local maximum and adjust as
accurate as possible. Adjust gain ‘C’ so that the pointer of the display
instrument (meter) is in the centre position. The highest reading will be
the local maximum. In case the pointer moves all the way to the limit,
you will have to readjust gain ‘C’ again to a centre position and continue
with the adjustment for the local maximum. Then hold the equipment
vertically and once again use the gain ‘C’ to adjust the pointer to a
centre position.
• In case no local maximum can be detected turn the unit by 90° on the
horizontal level and search the area again.
"

but zahori looks like a little bit different.
it 's frequency is between 10 hrz and 1000hrz
but not wide band .
you start from 10 hertz and trace down till you find a frequency ( or 1000 hrz to 10 hertz)
(any frequency.,one frequency of a transmitter (base station near)that is behind of user.)
then you reduce frequency to find (recieve ) any reflection of previous
frequency.

WHY MINEORE İNSİST ON NORTH TO SOUTH SEARCH?
fOR ME İT İS THEİR FAULT OF THİNKİNG
AT THE NORTH OF BRAZİL (WHERE MİNEORO SETTLES) THERE ARE LOTS OF USA NAVY BASE s. MAYBE ONE OF THEM ,MAYBE ALl OF THEM PROPAGATEs this low frequency

look at this chart

Extremely low frequency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremely_low_frequency)ELF13–30 Hz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertz)
100,000 km – 10,000 kmCommunication with submarines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_submarines)Super low frequency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_low_frequency)SLF230–300 Hz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertz)
10,000 km – 1000 kmCommunication with submarines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_submarines)Ultra low frequency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_low_frequency)ULF3300–3000 Hz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertz)
1000 km – 100 kmCommunication within minesVery low frequency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_low_frequency)VLF43–30 kHz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilohertz)
100 km – 10 kmSubmarine communication, avalanche beacons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avalanche#Beacons), wireless heart rate monitors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_rate_monitor)Low frequency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_frequency)LF530–300 kHz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilohertz)
10 km – 1 kmNavigation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_navigation), time signals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_clock), AM longwave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longwave) broadcasting

and ivconic
at gisco home page there is a new unit called WADI to find water at 100meters ..work at 10-30khz .

IF YOU SAY ZAHORİ 'S FREQUENCY İS TOO LOW
YOU WİLL TELL TO US WHAT TO DO FOR ANY FREQUENCY RANGE THAT WE COULD DECİDE.
MAYBE 44-142KHZ
OR ANY FROM LİST ABOVE.

now you know my idea
please tell me why this can not be done while emfad can do this.
Attached Imageshttp://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1118&stc=1&d=1160117582

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/images/misc/progress.gif

hung

10-06-2006, 01:05 PM

In the unlikely case that Mineoro's offer is serious, then this would be a very easy $50,000 to win, and I would like to accept their challenge. I eagerly await their response.
Carl, It's serious.
Damasio is positive about the discovery Alonso and him did wich is trully a revolution and can't stand seeing Mineoro trademark be treated like it is in this forum I guess.

Next, would you be willing to submit a unit to an independent 3rd party for testing and analysis? I suggest one of the NASA research centers, since you seem to be fond of NASA. I'm sure one of them has experts in ion detection.

They did send a unit to scientific analysis.
I have in my pocession a certificate emitted by the respected Nemko Insititute and Hursley EMC Services of England. A FG80 was sent to them recently for their research in terms of EM emission , electrostatics, etc.
They emitted a certificate of testing with the EMC directive 89/336/EEC.
The tests were performed in Hursley EMC Labs in Hamphsire. Period of 17th-18th August 2006.

Unfortunately the PDF file is 360 Kb and I cannot attach it in this forum which has a limit of 256Kb.

If you are not willing to submit a unit for independent testing, then exactly what will you accept as proof? If I obtain a Mineoro device and conclusively show that it WILL NOT respond to ions or electric fields, is that sufficient? I also notice you did not include the GDM428 in the list. Will you explicitly allow it? What about other discontinued models?

I already told many times. In late 2005 early 2006, several Mineoro detectors left the factory unitentionally with deffective ICs due to a bad manufacturer's lot. Unfortunately this was not traceable at the time. So they changed manufacturer and the customers who had faulty devices were contacted for a recall. The GDP, GDM series were discontinued about that time.

hung

10-06-2006, 01:11 PM

Also included in this PDF file is a report of every test made and its results.
I tried to compress it but a PDF file would not copress much.
In case geotech cannot provide an increase in size for PDF files, you will have to wait a few days. Mineoro intends to provide this report in their site soon, I was told.

Carl-NC

10-06-2006, 02:57 PM

Carl, It's serious.
Damasio is positive about the discovery Alonso and him did wich is trully a revolution and can't stand seeing Mineoro trademark be treated like it is in this forum I guess.

I sent them an email asking for clarification of their "challenge" over a week ago, and have yet to hear a peep from them. I suspect I never will. Much like last year, when they expressed interest in my LRL Challenge, then refused to answer my repeated emails.

They did send a unit to scientific analysis.
I have in my pocession a certificate emitted by the respected Nemko Insititute and Hursley EMC Services of England. A FG80 was sent to them recently for their research in terms of EM emission , electrostatics, etc.
They emitted a certificate of testing with the EMC directive 89/336/EEC.
The tests were performed in Hursley EMC Labs in Hamphsire. Period of 17th-18th August 2006.

They only test for EMI compliance, not whether the device actually works. I could send them a dead circuit, and it would pass EMI tests with flying colors.

Unfortunately the PDF file is 360 Kb and I cannot attach it in this forum which has a limit of 256Kb.
I've increased it to 600k.

I already told many times. In late 2005 early 2006, several Mineoro detectors left the factory unitentionally with deffective ICs due to a bad manufacturer's lot. Unfortunately this was not traceable at the time. So they changed manufacturer and the customers who had faulty devices were contacted for a recall. The GDP, GDM series were discontinued about that time.
So all those devices left the factory not working, and no one noticed? I wonder why Ed never received a recall notice?

- Carl

hung

10-06-2006, 04:33 PM

hung

10-06-2006, 05:37 PM

This is the certificate emitted to Mineoro and the tests report.
Thanks Carl for increasing PDF file size.

Carl-NC

10-06-2006, 11:20 PM

Carl, I had a quick talk on the phone with Damasio this morning before I headed to my studio. Some points to clarify:

1 - Mineoro did not receive your email reply for an unkown reason. So Damasio authorized me to give you his private email which I will provide privately to you.

I am well aware that Mineoro is blocking my regular email address. They have been doing so for about 2 years. So I use my thunting.com email, which I know they are receiving. They just won't answer.

2 - No need to have NASA or any other third party to inspect the Mineoro detectors because THEY WILL NOT KNOW how it works. It's a NEW MODERN INVENTION which the scientific comunity is not aware of it yet. Only the inventors know how it works.
What you are saying, is that Mineoro has a defacto alibi for not paying the $50,000 for "whoever proves the directional detectors...do not detect according the Damásio&Alonso research method." Since only Damásio & Alonso know the "method", and "the scientific comunity is not aware of it," then Mineoro has set up an impossible challenge!

3 - The EMC certificate is exactly that. It performs EM emissions and other waves. The detector was confirmed to work employing those principles also.
OK, I read the entire report. I was right, it was a test to see if the FG80 would pass EMI testing. As I said, a dead circuit will pass EMI testing as well.

They also tested the FG80 to see if external EMI would affect its "operation". The "operation" was simply to turn the device on and let it sit there. They found that ESD discharges would make it beep. Yes, I expect so. I've personally tested devices with an ESD gun up to 8kV, and I guarantee that I can make just about any circuit that has a speaker or a beeper, bark.

But here's the odd part... they also tested the FG80 with AM signals from 80MHz to 1GHz. They reported that the FG80 is "extremely sensitive across the range of radiated RF interference." Now, you and Mineoro have claimed these devices work on ions, and NOT RF. Yet users report that the devices seem to just randomly beep, and this EMI test confirms that the FG80 will just sit there and beep in response to RF signals. This is also what I found when I dissected the PDC205... it was actually designed to respond to RF signals.

Also, like I said, the lab did not test whether the FG80 actually worked or not. This is not the kind of evidence you should be posting if you want to support Mineoro. It only confirms what skeptics have been saying.

4 - The IGD2005, IS NOT A DOWSING ROD! Although it employs 'dowsing' principles it utilizes the 'ionic wind' to detect and check the ionic field status.
It's a dowsing rod. And absolute proof that Mineoro sells bogus devices, even if it turns out the non-dowsing devices actually work.

"Ionic wind"? Are you really serious?

5 - Damasio intends to go to the USA next year for a full demonstration of the ionic/electrostatic method as he's busy right now in a big recovery operation. Also as already told, he suffers from diabethes. Let's hope he can make it.
He even told me to ask Carl where he lives cause he's almost positive he will find something (long time buried) in his area.

6 - If Carl happens to live in a place where humidity is low and it's far from the ocean, chances are this could be acomplished. There's always lost items such as rings, etc. in open areas.

7 - The demonstrations in USA will probably take place in the mountain areas or regions far from the ocean for best results. Salinization in beaches and areas close to shore are not the best conditions for detection to happen although if it's a large mass of gold, detection will happen anyway and in whatever conditions.
Excellent... I live 200 miles from the coast, and 100 miles from the Blue Ridge Mtns of NC. I'll gladly meet him, and bring my 10-ounce gold bar. No need to look for lost rings.

8 - Ed Merril has been already contacted by Mineoro in the past and he's receiving a new detector.

Ed had to contact Mineoro, and they wanted him to fork over $3700 for the exchange, even though they admitted his unit was defective. Only with your intervention did they finally agree to a free exchange. I agree with Dell, their initial response showed poor ethics.

Qiaozhi

10-06-2006, 11:31 PM

This is the certificate emitted to Mineoro and the tests report.
Thanks Carl for increasing PDF file size.
This is in no way a confirmation that this device actually works. It is simply a series of tests for Radiated Disturbances, Electrostatic Discharge (ESD) and Radiated RF Interference, to determine whether the EUT (equipment under test) conforms to the EMC Directive 89/336/EEC.
This directive has two main objectives - to ensure that any electromagnetic disturbances produced by the device do not adversely affect the functioning of other equipment - and to ensure the device has an adequate level of immunity to electromagnetic interference.
Here's some bedtime reading:

hung

10-07-2006, 02:06 AM

I am well aware that Mineoro is blocking my regular email address. They have been doing so for about 2 years. So I use my thunting.com email, which I know they are receiving. They just won't answer.

I really don't know anything about them blocking your emails. For what purpose? Sorry don't see the point.
Well, there will be no problems anymore as I have gave you Damasio's email.
Now you have direct contact with the man.

What you are saying, is that Mineoro has a defacto alibi for not paying the $50,000 for "whoever proves the directional detectors...do not detect according the Damásio&Alonso research method." Since only Damásio & Alonso know the "method", and "the scientific comunity is not aware of it," then Mineoro has set up an impossible challenge!

No. What I am saying is that the ionic understanding and concepts accepted will not be able to explain the discovery they made. Their ionic and electrostatic understanding is far more advanced simply for the fact they have been studying this exclusive subject for almost 50 years.
The challenge rules are clear. Provided there's long time buried gold (average ten years) , it can be detected by their method. Easy and simple. No difficulty.

Now, you and Mineoro have claimed these devices work on ions, and NOT RF. Yet users report that the devices seem to just randomly beep, and this EMI test confirms that the FG80 will just sit there and beep in response to RF signals. This is also what I found when I dissected the PDC205... it was actually designed to respond to RF signals.

I did not claim anything. The inventors did. Although Damasio never told me the 'one' major factor that makes the detector impossible to be cloned and why it works, I can garantee through countless hours talking to him about the phenomena discovered that you don't have the slightest knowledge about what's involved to even start formulating statements as above. Sorry.
It's like if they told you they invented a time machine. How do you imagine a 'time machine'? See the point?

It's a dowsing rod. And absolute proof that Mineoro sells bogus devices, even if it turns out the non-dowsing devices actually work.

"Ionic wind"? Are you really serious?

Again, dowsing has a vast mean and according to Damasio, it's not understood because it was never studied seriously. The IGD and DIAS are not dowsing rods per se. They are ionic detectors based on their discovery as well. I don't expect you to believe this. But when you see them in use in Damasio's hand, you will understand.

Excellent... I live 200 miles from the coast, and 100 miles from the Blue Ridge Mtns of NC. I'll gladly meet him, and bring my 10-ounce gold bar. No need to look for lost rings.

Keep your gold bar inside your wardrobe. I'm talking about long time buried gold. Again, long time buried gold releases ionic fields. Don't believe it? Next year you will.
Maybe there's something inside your house area who knows?

Ed had to contact Mineoro, and they wanted him to fork over $3700 for the exchange, even though they admitted his unit was defective. Only with your intervention did they finally agree to a free exchange. I agree with Dell, their initial response showed poor ethics.
You are outdated on this. Ed never had to pay this amount of money. Ask Dell for an update.

Dell Winders

10-07-2006, 02:41 AM

LINK: http://thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,319.15.html

There is no reason for Carl, not to be up to date with the events, as they are posted on his own server's forums, where the information about payment was originally posted.

So far, honoring the product replacement between Mineoro, and Ed Merill, appears to be totally acceptable. Hung, has been an absolute gentelman, and invaluable communication link, between Mineoro, and a USA customer. He has my sincere thanks and appreciation for his unselfish assistance in this matter. Dell

Carl-NC

10-07-2006, 02:42 AM

The challenge rules are clear.

No, they're incredibly vague.

Provided there's long time buried gold (average ten years) , it can be detected by their method. Easy and simple. No difficulty.
From their web site: FG80 FRESH GOLD

Again, dowsing has a vast mean and according to Damasio, it's not understood because it was never studied seriously.
Dowsing has been thoroughly studied.

The IGD and DIAS are not dowsing rods per se. They are ionic detectors based on their discovery as well. I don't expect you to believe this.
No, I don't believe this. At all.

Keep your gold bar inside your wardrobe. I'm talking about long time buried gold. Again, long time buried gold releases ionic fields. Don't believe it? Next year you will.
FG80 FRESH GOLD

We'll use the gold bar, since this is what they claim.

Dell Winders

10-07-2006, 03:43 AM

Carl, I'm just curious. How would using either fresh buried, or long time buried Gold, have any revelance to your dis-proving Mineoro's, claim of detecting Gold ions and electrostatic fields?

Dowsing, has been lightly scientificly studied, but it's definition is vauge and a universally accepted definition that incorporates limited parameters for defining Dowsing is still subjective to broad parameters, and inaccurate interpretation. Flatly stating that something, or someone is Dowsing, is only your personal opinion, not necessiarily fact, or truth, and should be stated as such. That is of course unless the art of Dowsing is an integral part of EE science. Dell

Kev

10-07-2006, 04:03 AM

11 - Confirmed. The gentleman who went to Mineoro to buy a detector is indeed a F15 pilot. Now if he is on duty in Jordan or any other country in that area is unkwnon.

The Royal Jordanian Air Force has never had F-15s, the only one in the series they have used is the F-16 which is presently in service.

Carl-NC

10-07-2006, 04:09 AM

Well, there will be no problems anymore as I have gave you Damasio's email. Now you have direct contact with the man.

As I suspected would happen, my email was again returned... "Access Denied." Since Damasio's personal email uses the same "mineoro.com.br" server as the company email, it is useless to me.

Well, I'm not going to waste any more time trying to figure out how to get around their email bouncer. If Damasio wants to read my replies, he can read them right here on this forum. Of course, he can continue to send me emails, or he can just jump right on this forum, and save me the trouble of re-posting them.

- Carl

Carl-NC

10-07-2006, 04:15 AM

Carl, I'm just curious. How would using either fresh buried, or long time buried Gold, have any revelance to your dis-proving Mineoro's, claim of detecting Gold ions and electrostatic fields?

They claim to be able to detect "fresh gold". This makes it incredibly easy to test whether their LRL will detect gold using a known target. If it won't, then their technical claims are false.

- Carl

hung

10-07-2006, 01:02 PM

FG80 FRESH GOLD

We'll use the gold bar, since this is what they claim.

I don't think you know what he means by Damasio & Alonso method of detection.

I own a FG80. It detects fresh gold. But special conditions have to be met. Humidities well lower than 50%. I already had the detector beep at my ring at over 10 feet, but I it's not consistent cause mu huidity here is almost all the time over 70%.
The rules mention 'according to the Damasio & Alonso method of research.
It's clear. Read all the explanation on their site about their method of research wich explains the phenomena and how this manifest.
The PDC210 and 205 for instance can't detect fresh gold as the FG80 can.
However even if the right conditions are met, fresh gold detection cannot compare to a long time buried target in terms of long range.
This is part of their discovery. LONG TIME BURIED GOLD PRODUCES AN IONIC FIELD WHICH IS PRONE BY DETECTION BY THE DAMASIO & ALONSO METHOD (MINEORO DETECTORS).

Despite of that I'm sure if conditions allow, we will be willing to demonstrate fresh gold detection with the FG80 and FG79.

hung

10-07-2006, 01:06 PM

As I suspected would happen, my email was again returned... "Access Denied." Since Damasio's personal email uses the same "mineoro.com.br" server as the company email, it is useless to me.

- Carl

Sounds like an 'anti spam' working. They had problems with antispam in the past. I has happened to other people as well.
I'll report that to Damasio tough.
Don't start to make tricky conclusions leading to believe this is all fake. He himself told me to give his email to you. I'm sure he is not aware of what is happening.
Maybe he will send you an email and you just reply.

Jim

10-07-2006, 01:38 PM

As I suspected would happen, my email was again returned... "Access Denied." Since Damasio's personal email uses the same "mineoro.com.br" server as the company email, it is useless to me.

Well, I'm not going to waste any more time trying to figure out how to get around their email bouncer. If Damasio wants to read my replies, he can read them right here on this forum. Of course, he can continue to send me emails, or he can just jump right on this forum, and save me the trouble of re-posting them.

- Carl

Call me madcap (or Quiz Man)….but, me thinks not only is your posts being read by Damismo, but they are also involved in the reply. :rolleyes:

okantex

10-07-2006, 02:26 PM

WHY NOBODY READ MY LAST MAİL

okantex

10-07-2006, 02:31 PM

okantex

10-07-2006, 02:41 PM

AS CARL SAYS
"
But here's the odd part... they also tested the FG80 with AM signals from 80MHz to 1GHz. They reported that the FG80 is "extremely sensitive across the range of radiated RF interference." Now, you and Mineoro have claimed these devices work on ions, and NOT RF. Yet users report that the devices seem to just randomly beep, and this EMI test confirms that the FG80 will just sit there and beep in response to RF signals. This is also what I found when I dissected the PDC205... it was actually designed to respond to RF signals.
"
THİS DEVİCES ONLY DETECTS RF WAVES.
HOW?
READ MY FİRST MAİL ,THERE YOU WİLL SEE HOW İT WORKS?
WHERE İS DOMASİO FAULTY AT HİS THEORY.
ACCORDİNG TO HİS CHALLENGE,
""
WE WILL PAY US$ 50,000.00 (FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS) to whoever proves the directional detectors below:

• PDC 205;
• PDC 210;
• HC 300;
• DC 2008;
• FG 79; e,
• FG 80,
• IGD2005 (Ionic Electrostatic Inherent Gold Detector-just for gold)
• DIAS2005 (Ionic Electrostatic Inherent All Substances Detector)
Do not detect according theDamásio&Alonso © research method.

"
WHAT HE SAY?
PROVE THİS MODELS WORKS.
BUT İN DİFFERENT METOD.NOT İN DOMASİO'S.

İF YOU READ MY EXPLATİON.

SO ı DİD THİS.
TELL HİM TO SENT MY MONEY.
İF HE BELİEVES HİS MACHİNES WORK.HE HAVE TO SENT .
İF NOT TELL HİM TO STOP SELLİNG THİS UNİTS.

STORTLY THİS UNİTS ARE FİRST TUNED TO A FREQUENCY.THEN YUO REDUCE FREQUENCY A LİTTLE AND TRACE AREA FOR REFLECTİON OF FİRST TUNE FREQUENCY.
SAME AS ZAHORİ.
SAME AS EMFAD UG12
CAUSE OF ANTENNA DESİGN EMFAD RECİEVES FROM DOWN.BUT ZAHORİ AND MİNEORO AS LONG RANGE POİNTER.
WAİTİNG FOR YOUR REPLY.
DO NOT FORGET TO SENT COPY OF THİS MASSAGE TO DOMASİO
AND ADD MY BEST WİSHES.

Jim

10-07-2006, 02:43 PM

HUNG ,
SO HOW WİLL YOUR GOLD İONS PASS THROUGH THAT RESİN FİLLED ANTENNA. CAN YOU EXPLAİN.?

The million-dollar question that has been asked many-a-time. The answer still eludes us, and the rest of the civilized world.

hung

10-07-2006, 03:39 PM

HUNG ,
FORGET İONİC PHENEMON.
ATOMS ARE MADE OF İONS.THAT İS OKAY.
NO PROBLEM.
BUT ,HAVE YOU EVER USED COATED (İNSULATED) COPPER WİRE
OR A WİRE COATED BY PLASTİC( WİTH PE,PP OR ELSE)
WE GENERALY USE İT İN DAYLY LİFE FOR ELECTRİC APPLİCATİONS.
WHEN YOU WİND TWO İSOLATED WİRE ,YOU CANNOT CAUSE SHORT CUT(SPARKS)
SO HOW WİLL YOUR GOLD İONS PASS THROUGH THAT RESİN FİLLED ANTENNA. CAN YOU EXPLAİN.?

You have two options.
Either believe the inventors found something which is not currently known and accept it or you wait for the releasing of their discovery report in a near future in case the inventors decide to disclose this.
What Damasio tells me when I ask him recurring queries like yours above is:
'This kind of question relates to a conventional ions explanation. It cannot be explained using this kind of ions as methodology. There's much more than that as we found'.

okantex

10-07-2006, 04:04 PM

domasio found nothing.
he just does experiments.
results are real facts.
but his theory is out of science.
that is what he believes,nothing else.
here I solve how it works.
If you read all my letters,you will see that
do you know chess
now I am playing to get his king.
and he is defendless against my attack.

AND every patent offeice can give you what you want.it is up to money.you know this better than me.if there is a real patent which hold scientific facts in hand.why they do not explain it to public.they have right to produce it with out dublication of others for years and take second right to produce again with this procedure.
while nobody can produce it ,they have notthing to afraid.

okantex

10-07-2006, 04:08 PM

and sent all of my letters in this thread to him.
also emfad has patent and serious users .it is a real machine.
according to same theory their products must work.if they believe their products work.ESteban says this ,too.they know who is esteban .they must believe him ,too.
so I would like to count money.

Carl-NC

10-07-2006, 06:00 PM

I don't think you know what he means by Damasio & Alonso method of detection.

One way to win the challenge, is to prove the devices do not detect gold at all. Then the "Damasio & Alonso method" is irrelevant.

I own a FG80. It detects fresh gold. But special conditions have to be met. Humidities well lower than 50%.

Good. We can do the test in an air-conditioned building, where the humidity is controlled.

- Carl

okantex

10-07-2006, 06:06 PM

look at antennas
emfad uses selenoid winding
man in pic uses round winding
old mineoro uses rectangular winding
DCH85 uses round a little bit selonoid like round winding.
,SO ALL OF THEM USE DİRECTİONAL ANTENNAS.
NOTHİNG ELSE.
THEY ALL ARE JUST DİRCTİONAL RECİEVERS WORK İN SAME MANNER.

Carl-NC

10-07-2006, 06:34 PM

okantex,

Proving the Mineoro devices respond to RF signals does not satisfy their "challenge." Their challenge was to "prove the directional detectors below...do not detect according the Damásio&Alonso © research method." Just because the devices respond to RF (which we have proven, and Hung's report verifies) does not necessarily prove they won't respond to something else.

The challenge is actually very vague. First, notice they say,

"prove the directional detectors below..."

They did not say,

"prove that any of the directional detectors below..."

What this means is that you would have to prove that ALL of the listed detectors DO NOT operate by some claimed method.

Second, you would have to prove they do not detect according to the "Damásio&Alonso © research method." First of all, a "research method" is a method of conducting research. How research is conducted plays no role whatsoever in how things actually work, so this makes no sense. Next, notice that "Damásio&Alonso" is one word, which means that it is an identifier for "something." That "something" has not been described, so right now, there is no way to prove their detectors don't work according to the "Damásio&Alonso...method".

Finally, they ask you to prove their devices "do not detect." They do not ask you to prove their devices "do not detect gold." This is a critical point. We already know their devices detect RF signals. We even know their devices detect 8kV zaps from an ESD gun. So as it is stated, their challenge is already impossible to win.

My request for clarification on these points has been met with silence.

Now, assuming that what they really meant to say is,

"prove that any of the directional detectors below...do not detect gold according the theory of ionic field detection"

then this would be a winable challenge. One way is to prove that buried gold does not produce ions. Another is to gut the device and show there is no ion detecting method inside. But the easiest way to win, is to test a device that claims to detect "fresh gold"... if the device cannot detect the gold, then that is inclusive of "not detecting the gold according to the theory of ionic field detection." Challenge won.

- Carl

hung

10-07-2006, 07:29 PM

Carl,

I talked to Damasio a while ago and he said Mineoro NEVER blocked yours or anybody's emails. On monday he wil personally check what's going on since if it's happening to you it might be happening to other people as well.

He asked if you can provide you phone number also as they could call you early next week.

So as you see, no need to imagine 'mysterious' things to support 'conspiracy theories'.

Also he told me the 'Challenge' rules and topics will be known soon.

About your 'assumptions' above. No need to formulate complex theories.
You will see and learn how long time buried gold will be detected from a distance and also you will witness how the detectors wil respond to fresh gold in air, hidden in your body even at a distance, in this case provided the conditions permit.

okantex

10-07-2006, 08:58 PM

patricia'@mineoro.com does not work
you have to use mineoro@ineoro.com

okantex

10-07-2006, 09:08 PM

" What this means is that you would have to prove that ALL of the listed detectors DO NOT operate by some claimed method."

if so there is no chaallenge here.
just an other bogus of mineoro

ofcourse it can detect static electricity.while waveing (swinging) vise versa(left to right,right to left)
but no ionic fphenomen exist here.
maybe detection of positive earth magnetic fluxes also posible.
but reflection of rf signal is the most powerfull one .
becase user tunes frequency with potensiometer.if it were earth mag.flux. u need fixed value of frequency.
if it were ionic phenomen ,u had never need to tune something.
BUT İF U ACCEPT RECİEVEİNG RF REFLECTİON ,TUNİNG BECOMES MEANİNG FULL.OTHER VİSE MEANİNGLESS.
AGAİN WE COME TO THE THEORY WHİCH İS EMFAD BASED ON.

hung

10-07-2006, 09:26 PM

okantex,
You have to add '.br' to those email links.
patricia@mineoro.com.br
mineoro@mineoro.com.br

You are speculating on what the challenge is all about.
To me it's clear. To demonstrate that the detectors don't work based on the damasio&alonso method, that is, that it cannot locate long time buried gold through ionic and electrostatic detection. Simple. Now wait for the rules and details.

The ionic detection system of Mineoro is unique. It's like isolating the gold's ion 'DNA'.

RF....
Tel me what kind of test you imagine I could perform with the FG80 to deomonstrate it's behaviour regarding RF?
Hmmm?

okantex

10-09-2006, 06:01 AM

hung
what was the princible of DCH85
is not it working with ionic phenomen like pd and dc series?

okantex

10-09-2006, 07:14 AM

hung
you are blind and deaf
read your word and domasio's carefully

"You are speculating on what the challenge is all about.
To me it's clear. To demonstrate that the detectors don't work based on the damasio&alonso method, that is, that it cannot locate long time buried gold through ionic and electrostatic detection
"
nobody says prove that mineoro detectors never work.
just prove that they do not work according to ionic phenomen.

and I say it works .but according to rf and static electricity(electrostatics).

hung

10-09-2006, 01:29 PM

hung
what was the princible of DCH85
is not it working with ionic phenomen like pd and dc series?

The same principle.
Only it was much less powerful and dependent of 100% ionic field intensity. It also had 3 switches . Gold, Silver and Copper. Later it was discarded.
Although the PDCs are only gold, they may eventually detect other noble metals in a less extense and from a much closer distance.
For instance, in july I was in an expedition and my team and I got a flat tire. Upon stoping in a place to repair it, I was playing with the PDC when all of a sudden it started to beep in one direction . I followed it and 20 feet later I was exactly over an old piece of copper tubing laid in the ground. The guy who was repairing the tire said that piece of copper was laying there for several years. The weather that day was awfully hot and the humidity around 10%.
How the detection happened?
As I won't go into the real scientific explanation, let's put it this way.

Suppose you're in a closed room positioned in the center. At left there's a 100 watt amplifier. At your right a 0.5 watt amp. If I crank both amps, which one you will be hear to listen? Sure the 100 watt model. Can you still hear the 0.5 watt one? No.
What happens if I turn the 100 watt amp´off? I will start to listen to the 0.5 watt.
Ok. The gold is the 100 watt amp. Copper, silver and bronze, for instance are the 0.5 power amp.

okantex

10-09-2006, 01:44 PM

okantex

10-09-2006, 01:46 PM

and can you sent a user manuel of dch85
if posible.

hung

10-09-2006, 11:31 PM

hi hung
I believe yuor experimentation.
I could not understand what you want to say .
by the word
"
dependent of 100% ionic field intensity.
"
can you say it with different words.
do you want to mean it only uses ionic phenomen.
or it does not use this phenomen.
sorry english is not my native language.

The DCH85 was only capable to detect if the ionic fields of the region were at max. It used to employ the same ionic electrostatic principle as today's PDC and FG series, however his range was limited by the intensitiy of the ionic field. Along the years Mineoro evolved the concept and today's FG for instance can be effective with only 25% of ionic intensity.

Sorry, I don't have DCH's manual. Maybe Esteban does it.

okantex

10-10-2006, 06:38 AM

hung

10-10-2006, 12:47 PM

hi hung
if dch and others work in same princible,
in my opinion you are right .they all work with same princible,too.
where is the clasifier of dch .
can you see any around
only thing you will see is round wind directional coil
whiich proves my theory.
there is no ionic phenomen.since there is no ionic chamber or clasifier ,however you call it.
can you learn frequency range of these models.
for example zahori between 0-10 hz and 10-1000 hz

I will try to get more info on the DCH series and get back to you.
The PDCs have a perimeter antenna and it does not necessarily means it works based on RF. Bear in mind that Mineoro's explanation on their site is TRUE. It's not a misleading information at all.
Anyway, I will try to reach Damasio today or tomorrow about the DCH and get back to you.

Esteban

10-10-2006, 05:37 PM

DCH models and similars work via RF. Mineoro with chambers are different, only the loop is some similar as magnetic field absorber.

hung

10-10-2006, 10:42 PM

DCH models and similars work via RF. Mineoro with chambers are different, only the loop is some similar as magnetic field absorber.

As I had a talk with Damasio a few moments ago I also asked him about the DCH which I was not familiar with. He confirmed it works on the same principle as the PDCs. Although they all have antennas which are prone to receive RF transmissions, this is not how it works. The DCH have (had) 3 ionic chambers. Each for gold ,copper ,and silver.

okantex

10-11-2006, 07:15 AM

these last two mails's explanations looks different.
this is the first time estebans and domasios decisions on system different.
interesting
if system is same
why esteban had not seen and recognise it before.
esteban has his own models work with out clasifier ,do not you have esteban.

okantex

10-11-2006, 07:35 AM

esteban
can zahori find the dept of target.
or just mineoro models can do it

Esteban

10-11-2006, 05:01 PM

Hi, Okantex. Hung said "the same principles" regarding ionization. I use terminology RF because inside there are a PCB with RF section wich detect the difference in RF pattern. Also RF detects the ionization of buried good conductive metals.

You can measure the depth with arithmetic formula. I'll post the drawings of it.

Esteban

10-11-2006, 07:37 PM

You can see how can calculate the depth:

http://www.mineoro.com.br/portugues/tesouros/manualfg80.htm

okantex

10-11-2006, 07:48 PM

I wanted to mean that can zahori measure dept with this (mineoro) method.

ANd I have an offer for you.
we do this with rods.
when you center target .nail a copper pin (8 mm -12mm diameter. 30cm lenght.copper pipe) 10-20cm nailing to ground is enough.be sure that it must be tightly driven to ground.surface must kiss earth.
tahn wait for 10 minutes.
and move back with mineoro.
good luck.

Esteban

10-11-2006, 08:06 PM

The phenomenom is the same for all the long range electronic detector. I know that the LRL rods detectorists uses "the rule of the bishop".

okantex

10-13-2006, 08:31 AM

Hi Esteban
Does using round wound anntena(like ones in pics. up and mineoro) has adventage (and disadventage) over teleskobic antennas like in zahori and FG.

Esteban

10-13-2006, 05:55 PM

My most long finds was with telescopic antenna, and very precisse. 80 m for silver cavalry items (adorn of horse chair) at 70 cm depth.