BIONIC ALPHA

[Dell Winders]

OKM, is a reputable manufacturer of geophysical instruments. Does their entry into the Long Range Locator market add scientific credibibility to the LRL/ Remote sensing discrimination concept? Dell

http://treasureamerica.netfirms.com/phpbb/xx/gallery/data/503/medium/Bionicalpha.jpg

[hung]

OKM, is a reputable manufacturer of geophysical instruments. Does their entry into the Long Range Locator market add scientific credibibility to the LRL/ Remote sensing discrimination concept? Dell

http://treasureamerica.netfirms.com/phpbb/xx/gallery/data/503/medium/Bionicalpha.jpg

'Reputable' and 'credibility' are not the best terms to describe them.
They are being charged and sued by Mineoro for trying to copy their trademark names, products and concepts.
Besides that, mineorogreece took them to court sometime ago for a product which did not work as advertised. He got his money back.
How's that for a start?

[Dell Winders]

Interesting! I would like to learn more. Did Mineoro, win their law suite? Does the Bionic Alpha, actually locate Gold, Silver, or Diamonds and classify them. Thanks for the reply. Dell

[miqui]

Interesting! I would like to learn more. Did Mineoro, win their law suite? Does the Bionic Alpha, actually locate Gold, Silver, or Diamonds and classify them. Thanks for the reply. Dell

if that lrl can do that they can get rich. I now places where to get a lot of gold.

[hung]

Dell, I don't know how the Mineoro's case against OKM is going.
But I think if OKM tried desperately to copy Mineoro's concepts , that's because they know it works.
Notice that I said 'TRIED'. As I said earlier, too much factors involved simply don't allow cloning.

One thing I can assure you. AFAIK there's no other people in the world as Damasio and Alonso in terms of creative genius. You don't imagine the advanced knowledge and capacity of these two men.
If you ever come to Garopaba, you will meet Damasio. I bet you will be impressed after a conversation with him.

[Carl-NC]

Since Mineoro has no patents on their products and concepts, there is nothing to stop people from copying them. If Mineoro has sued OKM for this, it is a baseless lawsuit.

I tend to agree about OKM's reputation... I've heard a lot of complaints about them, at least on the forums. Is that the company that advertised a device as being a GPR, when it was really a magnetometer? Now that's something you can get sued over.

[Dell Winders]

Dell, I don't know how the Mineoro's case against OKM is going.
But I think if OKM tried desperately to copy Mineoro's concepts , that's because they know it works.
Notice that I said 'TRIED'. As I said earlier, too much factors involved simply don't allow cloning.

One thing I can assure you. AFAIK there's no other people in the world as Damasio and Alonso in terms of creative genius. You don't imagine the advanced knowledge and capacity of these two men.
If you ever come to Garopaba, you will meet Damasio. I bet you will be impressed after a conversation with him.

Hung, I am impressed with talent, intelligence, and results. I am definitely not impressed by words, technicalities, appearances, or pretense. I don't think I will be traveling anywhere to try to meet someone I might be impressed with.

Years ago when Mineoro, started advertising their product in the US, I sent a letter, and two e-mails stating I would be interested in being a US representative, IF the product worked as they claimed. There was never a reply. I asked a friend of a friend traveling to Brasil, to visit their addressed place of business. It was a residence. He reported, the lady who answered the door said the owner was in the jungle with a client, and wouldn't be back for a couple of days.

Several years later Mineoro, announced that Claude Cochran,
a not very ethical MFD/LRL salseman, was their US Distributor. There were a lot of fanf are publicity photo's showing Cochran, using the Mineoro, then locating and digging up a piece of Jewelry.

Cochran apparently sold a number of the Mineoro, products. Two, people that I know. Complaints that the Mineoro's, Cochran, sold, "did not work," started showing up on the internet, and people were wanting their money back.

Cochran, posted a reply on the internet stating that he was conned by the owners of Mineoro, in Brasil, into thinking he had found the jewelry on his own and into believing the product really worked. He claimed the jewelry, although valuable had been pre-planted and aged.

Of course, Cochran's story cannot be accepted as a credible account, but the demand of at least two of his Mineoro, customers in the US to get their money back is real.

I have already acknowledged that the Mineoro, I tested in Central Florida did indeed work, but was subject to the same limitations as every other MFD/LRL on, and off the market I have field tested. I will be happy to offer an LRL comparison result to the Mineoro, on the Mineoro thread if you are interested?

The Florida owner of the Mineoro, I tested witnessed and experienced the comparison results for himself first hand, and now feels the Mineoro advertising is over exaggerated and he fell for it. It is posted for sale on this website and the purchaser is hopeful to get at least half of his money back where it can be applied to a more useful purpose to help pay his recent hospital bills. Perhaps the nice people at Mineoro, would be willing to give him a full refund, less shipping & US taxes, of course.

It is my personal opinion, based on my own field experience that the value of
the technology claims by the manufacturers of Mineoro, is being overrated for marketing purposes. The scientific words and graphics are impressive to the novice, but comparative results, with less expensive products is not impressive. Dell

[hung]

Hung, I am impressed with talent, intelligence, and results. I am definitely not impressed by words, technicalities, appearances, or pretense. I don't think I will be traveling anywhere to try to meet someone I might be impressed with.

1 - I did not ask you to travel to Garopaba. I said in case you ever go there be sure to meet him and talk to him for a while. I am sure you wil have everything to gain.

2 - If you ever find treasure with Mineoro devices and you came to a forum to announce this also those would be 'words' that might or might not impress others. You would run the risk as I do to hear things you just said above.

Years ago when Mineoro, started advertising their product in the US, I sent a letter, and two e-mails stating I would be interested in being a US representative, IF the product worked as they claimed. There was never a reply.

Are you positive they did get your email. In case of a positive answer, there was a good reason why they did not reply. Only them can tell. I will try to investigate this.

I asked a friend of a friend traveling to Brasil, to visit their addressed place of business. It was a residence. He reported, the lady who answered the door said the owner was in the jungle with a client, and wouldn't be back for a couple of days.

I don't believe this story. Your friend cheated on this. You have told this story before and it is a serious canditate to become a folklore in this forum.
I visited the factory. There are pictures of it at their site.
Mineoro is a famous corporation here. It manufactures security detectors for banks, portable detectors... and treasure detectors. The factory in no way resemblances somebody's house.

Cochran, posted a reply on the internet stating that he was conned by the owners of Mineoro, in Brasil, into thinking he had found the jewelry on his own and into believing the product really worked. He claimed the jewelry, although valuable had been pre-planted and aged.

Coming from an american person, anything is possible. Americans are wild capitalists and only think about money. Maybe something happened that made he upset and he decided for revenge?
Mineoro would never do something he claims.
All treasure found with their detectors are shown at the site.
The PDC 210 which I won found many items. I did find items myself, there's a person I known who works with one in the central region of Brazil detecting gold reefs and nuggets with it for gold panners. EVERY WEEK HE DETECTS A NEW CONFIRMED SPOT. The last one is being processed. 400G of gold per ton of rock.


I have already acknowledged that the Mineoro, I tested in Central Florida did indeed work, but was subject to the same limitations as every other MFD/LRL on, and off the market I have field tested. I will be happy to offer an LRL comparison result to the Mineoro, on the Mineoro thread if you are interested?

Are you sure you are now an expert in tuning the Mineoro detector you used?
How did you know that you set the correct calibrations to claim the above statements.
There's no detector on earth right now AFAIK beat the Mineoros.

It is my personal opinion, based on my own field experience that the value of
the technology claims by the manufacturers of Mineoro, is being overrated for marketing purposes. The scientific words and graphics are impressive to the novice, but comparative results, with less expensive products is not impressive. Dell

I don't agree with that.
Of course there are things as 'marketing strategies', but nothing Mineoros claims in their tests are false.

Dell, you live miles away from Mineoro. I live close and have visited the factory. I don't want to believe in the things you do.
But please don't emit opinions without absolute sureness.
Regards.

[Esteban]

Hung:

I know that Mineoro's factory is the greatest in South America and bigger than many factory of USA, no discussion about it.

Aerial view (main factory):

[hung]

Wow Esteban, nice pic, thanks!
Did you take that picture riding in your private helipcopter?

[Esteban]

From my helicopter I launch gold bars to the factory!:D

[Carl-NC]

Someone apparently contacted OKM about this alleged lawsuit, and forwarded me their reply:

Dear Sir,

where did you heard about that Mineoro has sued OKM? That is strange
because OKM does not know anything about it!

Anyway the Bionic alpha is available at any time. Our distributor in
USA
is:

Kellyco Metal Detectors
1085 Belle Ave.
Winter Springs, Florida 32708-2921, USA

Phone: 1-800-898-6673
EMail: john@kellycodetectors.com (http://us.f546.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=john@kellycodetectors.com&YY=29768&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b)
jw@kellycodetectors.com (http://us.f546.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=jw@kellycodetectors.com&YY=29768&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b)

Internet: www.kellycodetectors.com (http://www.kellycodetectors.com)


Best Regards

Christian Becker
OKM Ortungstechnik GmbH


I suspect that OKM is right, there is no lawsuit. Interesting that K is their US disty... Dell, you should drop in and request a demonstration!.

- Carl

[Dell Winders]

I'm not too sure the owner would be very happy to see me. My friendship was betrayed by them several years ago. I haven't had any dealings with them since.

But, right now I don't have the time. I have to keep my nose to the grind stone. I'm backed up with orders for 3 months and hoping we don't have any hurricanes to set me back farther.

Actually, I was impressed with the OKM Rover C deluxe during my short 2 day field testing using my map dowsed locations to compare the OKM results against the X-SCAN, and ZOND 12-c GPR.

The results were all positive, pretty much confirming each other. I would be pleased to own an OKM Rover. Dell

[hung]

Someone apparently contacted OKM about this alleged lawsuit, and forwarded me their reply:



I suspect that OKM is right, there is no lawsuit. Interesting that K is their US disty... Dell, you should drop in and request a demonstration!.

- Carl

Yeah. They are right.
As they really tried to clone Mineoro's concepts, I heard about this possibility as of my stay in Garopaba last year and I thought it had already been done.

But today I contacted Damasio's secretary and she confirmed they are still studying the case and have not officially pronounced a decision yet.

So, I apologize as I posted my opinion as a possible fact which is not.

[Seeker]

Hi everybody,this message I post in another place of this site,but be tempted to post here,excuse me for repetition.

I have GREAT FUN, when I read all about LRL. A certain clever man, lived 500 years ago said that "Where have measuring there is a sciense.The rest of it is a fraud".
Indeed ,when Volta made experiments with frog leg, this was a magic for another people,but Volta didn't sale frog legs , he made supposition about nature of this phenomenon.

LRL-makers speculate with people's naivety.This is like lottery: "You can win something in 80%" = "You can find something in 80%".So what you say in this case: "My car will carry me in 50% "?:eek: I say it is broken car.

I think it is science question "What have there?" is open and mast hard work to find answer, not to sale "frog legs".

Thank you for your attention.

[schatzsucher]

Here from ebay:
why can i not put a graphic into the post?

[svenax]

Hung:

I know that Mineoro's factory is the greatest in South America and bigger than many factory of USA, no discussion about it.

Aerial view (main factory):
http://www.mineoro.com/images/industriamineoro.jpg
(Sorry for bumping an old thread, but ...)

all the images at the Mineoro site looks suspiciously Photoshopped. I was able to locate the building in the picture using Google maps, and it sure looks a bit different:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=28%C2%B001%27S+48%C2%B036%27W&ie=UTF8&om=1&z=18&ll=-28.047705,-48.639371&spn=0.003229,0.007178&t=k&iwloc=A

I'm not saying that Mineoro is not located here, but it does seem a bit funny, at least to me.

[hung]

I've been there in november last year and the factory is exactly like the one in the picture.
The only difference are the roof tops. Either Google's image is really old or the roof got painted around last november.
It's a real big factory. Not only treasure detectors but detectors for security doors (banks,etc.) and furniture.

[chloe]

does bionic alpha and bionic 01 really works?and locates gold or silver?
in their brochure it has bionic system.what is a bionic system?
is it effective and useful in treasure hunting?


thanks!

[Qiaozhi]

does bionic alpha and bionic 01 really works?and locates gold or silver?
in their brochure it has bionic system.what is a bionic system?
is it effective and useful in treasure hunting?


thanks!
No - it's the usual LRL non-working rubblish.

Do not be fooled by so-called positive results obtained by the dowsing fratenity either. :( For example, see some more of Dell's unscientific rhetoric below:

Actually, I was impressed with the OKM Rover C deluxe during my short 2 day field testing using my map dowsed locations to compare the OKM results against the X-SCAN, and ZOND 12-c GPR.

As you see, the "positive" results were compared to "map dowsed locations" for confirmation. You have to be completely balmy to believe this nonsense.

[Dell Winders]

Did I fail to mention that the results were compared with the suddenly declared un-scientific, Ground Penetrating Radar? (Zond 12-c GPR, Radar Systems, Inc) Nope! It's there.

I recognize your ignorance. The OKM Rover C operates on scientific accepted E/M principles.

The Alpha, bionic is an unknown factor.

Chloe, you will need to take your questions else where for legitimate answers. There appears to be no intelligent life residing here. Dell

[Carl-NC]

does bionic alpha and bionic 01 really works?and locates gold or silver?
in their brochure it has bionic system.what is a bionic system?
is it effective and useful in treasure hunting?


Probably not. I'm in the process of testing another "ionic" detector, and so far it has all the characteristics of a classic LRL fraud. Besides that, the claimed principles of ionic gold detection are nonsense.

If you still want to consider buying one, I strongly suggest asking the company for references... that is, other people who have bought one. People with real phone numbers and real addresses. Call them and talk to them, ask them what they've found.

I've yet to run across anyone who has actually bought a Bionic locator, so if you would like to be the guinea pig then be my guest!

- Carl

[Dell Winders]

Probably not. I'm in the process of testing another "ionic" detector, and so far it has all the characteristics of a classic LRL fraud.

Oh Really! And where have I ever claimed the Frequency Discriminators, and LRL, I build detect Gold Ions ? Dell

http://www.omnitron.net

[chloe]

thanks for the info.we've better tuned to imager.we've already lost millions of pesos on those dowsing instruments,still no treasure only dirt and water.

[Qiaozhi]

thanks for the info.we've better tuned to imager.we've already lost millions of pesos on those dowsing instruments,still no treasure only dirt and water.
Hi chloe,

Thank you for the feedback. Do you have any further information on your firsthand experiences with "those dowsing instruments"? ;)

[chloe]

yup.i use L-rods and pendulum.their was another thunting team who hires me to locate their treasures.and my dowsing cross near the mango tree and i hold them that this is it,this is the exact location it only measures around 15 feet.so they dug up they even reach 30+.sad to say they found no treasure.they got upset on me.and i heard they hire another detectorist they use a GPR.and they found what they've looking for at 13+feet(giveaways) depth and 6 meters away from mango tree.and my current thunting leader also lost millions of pesos to with the used of LrL,he even used UAR(universal anderson rod) and vernell brand(no offend to the manufacturer,i only express the truth).and my other members want to buy this bionic 01 as a sort of contribution but told i him that its only an LRL but he insist so i post my message here inorder for him to see the feedbacks.thunting in philippines is different from others,some treasures located at 100+feet.others are lucky they found treasure with the use of dowsing supported by treasure signs and live witness,only small percentage maybe 8% out of 100% which means pure luck.

[Qiaozhi]

yup.i use L-rods and pendulum.their was another thunting team who hires me to locate their treasures.and my dowsing cross near the mango tree and i hold them that this is it,this is the exact location it only measures around 15 feet.so they dug up they even reach 30+.sad to say they found no treasure.they got upset on me.and i heard they hire another detectorist they use a GPR.and they found what they've looking for at 13+feet(giveaways) depth and 6 meters away from mango tree.and my current thunting leader also lost millions of pesos to with the used of LrL,he even used UAR(universal anderson rod) and vernell brand(no offend to the manufacturer,i only express the truth).and my other members want to buy this bionic 01 as a sort of contribution but told i him that its only an LRL but he insist so i post my message here inorder for him to see the feedbacks.thunting in philippines is different from others,some treasures located at 100+feet.others are lucky they found treasure with the use of dowsing supported by treasure signs and live witness,only small percentage maybe 8% out of 100% which means pure luck.
Thanks chloe. It's good to see some feedback here that reflects the reality of LRLs and dowsing. Most dowsers only seem to be able to recall positive experiences, and conveniently forget about the failures. This sort of selective memory is common where pseudoscience is concerned.
Thanks again, and please continue to frequent this forum. Your first-hand knowledge is welcome. :)

... he even used UAR(universal anderson rod) and vernell brand(no offend to the manufacturer,i only express the truth)
Don't be concerned about upsetting the manufacturers of LRLs and dowsing equipment. We do it all the time here. :D

[hung]

Thanks chloe. It's good to see some feedback here that reflects the reality of LRLs and dowsing. Most dowsers only seem to be able to recall positive experiences, and conveniently forget about the failures. This sort of selective memory is common where pseudoscience is concerned.
Thanks again, and please continue to frequent this forum. Your first-hand knowledge is welcome. :)


Don't be concerned about upsetting the manufacturers of LRLs and dowsing equipment. We do it all the time here. :D

He,he,he,.. You are my favorite skeptic Qiaozhi. Do you know why? Because you are a true 'pseudofreak'. You like to play deaf and blind.
Did you miss this from 'LRL post your finds'? Hmm.. let me guess..

[Qiaozhi]

He,he,he,.. You are my favorite skeptic Qiaozhi. Do you know why? Because you are a true 'pseudofreak'. You like to play deaf and blind.
Did you miss this from 'LRL post your finds'? Hmm.. let me guess..
No - I didn't miss this.

It is subjective evidence, and there is no documented proof of how these items were recovered. At least Esteban is not masquerading as the marketing department for an LRL manufacturer, and the devices he claims to have used have been created by his own hand. Whether there is some self-delusion here or not, I cannot readily say at this time. That's why I asked Esteban if he could post the schematic(s) of the detector(s) he claims to have used.

By the way, I'm not sure what you mean by "pseudofreak". My knowledge is rooted in true science, not the made-up pseudoscientific gobbledygook used by the lovers of LRLs. :razz: