Zahori

[Esteban]

Zahori means the person with ability to find water with a rod.

Remember Carlos post only the schematic because three pages is heavy for the forum.

I repost in thread Confused on detecting noble metals at great distances...

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?t=6664&highlight=ZAHORI

Read all the thread.

This schematic I have in Spanish, and always claim for the version in English. Maybe, nobody has here. This device was designed for to find water. In this German article (the original is the German magazine Elektor) assume that water in movement below the surface produce ionic interchanging. There are a Russian version about another title, a copy of original Elektor magazine of 1987 in the thread Remote Sensing Diagram:

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?t=10601&highlight=ZAHORI

Original web page http://radiotech.by.ru/Shematic_PCB.../biolokator.htm
(doesn't work?)

Compare the both schematics, are the same! But the Russian has the title "Biolokator".

For to control a pronunciate arrives of ions, the 555 discharge the antenna. The article said that at major oscillation in 555, more sensitive is the device. The 15 nF cap is a kind of "memory", good quality requires here.

No synthetic clothes, no build in plastic.

At the end, the article saids that is possible to detect another type o field, include radiactivity (in theory).

I has done many modification for to convert simple and usable device.

Later modifications.

You can download complete Zahori article (include the Russian article) from:

http://www.mytempdir.com/686740

[Qiaozhi]

This schematic I have in Spanish, and always claim for the version in English. Maybe, nobody has here.
I have translated about half the Spanish version of the Zahori article into English. When it is finished I will post it here.

[Esteban]

Mods. and photo of the device, in wood, no plastic, maybe metal.

The rest is your job...:D

[Esteban]

Qiaozhi, thanks a lot. Post mods and pic of kind of device.

[Esteban]

Sorry, forgot erase pin 9 to -

[Esteban]

But in 1988 publish for positive and negative ions, looks that the zahori. Article in Spanish. You can replace the plate by antenna.

[Esteban]

Variation: output via cap.

[Qiaozhi]

As promised, I've translated the Spanish Zahori article into English.
I tried to put the scanned pictures and text into one document, but it's too big a file to upload to this forum.

At the moment I am busy on another project, but I'd like to build this sometime in the future.

As Chinese people say: Zou ma kan hua (ride horse look flower)
In other words: Gain a superficial understanding.

The only way to gain an understanding of these "so-called" LRLs is to build one yourself. It's a certain way to conclude whether there is any truth here or just fraud and self-delusion. Maybe we should get off our horses and take a closer look. There's been a lot of discussion on this forum about posting schematics and building one yourself. So here's your chance. If there's even the slightest possibility that ionic detection is a way of finding gold or silver, then this circuit should do it.

Enjoy!

[Esteban]

Quiaozhi, thanks, great job. Now, many persons will understand how operates this electronic rod via ionization.

In this same thread, the modifications.

[Qiaozhi]

Sorry, forgot erase pin 9 to -
My comments on your modifications:

1. Replacing the 2M2 + 100K resistor on the timing circuit with a single 2M2.
This is claimed to increase the sensitivity. However, according to the article, the greatest sensitivity is achieved with the lowest pulse rate. In the original circuit there are two ranges (selected by S1) for either a range of approximately 10Hz-100Hz or 100Hz-1kHz.
10Hz is supposed to be the most sensitive.

2. The 10k pot connected to ES3 determines both the voltage potential and polarity of the antenna plate. In this way the plate is charged either positively or negatively to attract negative or positive ions accordingly.
I thought this was already on the outside panel.

3. Three telescopic antennas?
I'm not sure what this is supposed to achieve. Is this supposed to guide ions onto the antenna, or something?

4. Works bad with 5V regulators.
There should be no difference in using regulators with this design, except perhaps some increased stability. Perhaps we should investigate this further.

[hunterq3]

Qiaozhi:thanks ! great ! As Chinese people say: ding ,ni de youxiang shi ?
wo de shi hunterq3@163.com

[Esteban]

1. Yes, I use 100 hZ fix freq.

2. The 10 k provides as a threshold, and works as a sensibility control, no only in the way to attract positive or negative ions, mainly for to equalize the voltage.

3. The both laterals at 0 V and the center antenna collects the voltage from the buried metals. Remember: always I work via the electric field around the good conductive buried metals. So, I collect the voltage with the three antennas. The laterals actuates as a guide, or so, you can use a aluminium dish as Ivconic's project.

4. Yes, I have low sensitivity with regulators, or in other words, at more low voltage works better. Hope 3 volts is better?

[Qiaozhi]

4. Yes, I have low sensitivity with regulators, or in other words, at more low voltage works better. Hope 3 volts is better?
I wonder if this has something to do with the 4066 bilateral switches. It seems that the propagation delay depends on the supply voltage. Since the 555 timer toggles these switches, there may be some critical timing path here that reduces sensitivity of the sample and hold circuit.

[Esteban]

Another important detail: the 4066 must be good quality, good level audio output. There are some low quality, no recommended.

[Qiaozhi]

Qiaozhi:thanks ! great ! As Chinese people say: ding ,ni de youxiang shi ?
wo de shi hunterq3@163.com
Jintian wanshang wo gei ni dianzi youjian. Ni kan kan.
Zaijian. :)

[Qiaozhi]

Another important detail: the 4066 must be good quality, good level audio output. There are some low quality, no recommended.
Looks like this may be the source of the power supply problem then?

[Esteban]

No, put socket and try, and some Korean brands don't work well at the epoch I start with it, 10 years ago, so decide use Toshiba or any other Japanese brand as Hitachi, the both works fine, good level audio in the 3130 output.

Use Japanese because at the epoch I start found it in my market, no USA 4066 found, but now yes.

3130 is very obsolete, but is very sensitive and also very delicate, solder must be to ground.

[Qiaozhi]

No, put socket and try, and some Korean brands don't work well at the epoch I start with it, 10 years ago, so decide use Toshiba or any other Japanese brand as Hitachi, the both works fine, good level audio in the 3130 output.

Use Japanese because at the epoch I start found it in my market, no USA 4066 found, but now yes.

3130 is very obsolete, but is very sensitive and also very delicate, solder must be to ground.
The CA3130E is a mosfet input, CMOS output opamp. You should be able to replace this with a CA3140E which is a mosfet input, bipolar output device.
I would also think that either an LF353N, OPA2604AP, TL072CN or TL082CN would be ok. The one with the lowest noise figure is the OPA2604AP at 10nV/Hz.

[Esteban]

Yes... but suspect the 3130 is more sensitive. If not, why they has been designed the Zahori at the time there are many more modern ICs, with less problem of offset?

Redesign the Zahori with low noise figure demands also film resistor resistance 1%.

[detectoman]

esteban, hola me puedes decir las aplicaciones de ese detector ionico su alcance sus limitaciones su estabilidad etc y tus experiencias con el

un saludo y hasta pronto

detectoman mexico

[robert]

:confused:
Zahori is ment to be a ionic detection device, very old german project....
Already been seen some years ago in Elektor......What the hell is it usable in
metal detecting subject for!? Already known the fact that burried items do not
product any ions at all!

How many posts on such obsolete subject !?
Is that all man can find here on that subject!?

[Esteban]

Robert: I'm curious what version do you have, English, German, French? Evident, no as Zahori, this is a Spanish word. Or maybe you saw the first time here...:D

[robert]

Elektor CD from 1997/98....
German issue, i always purchase german issuess already....
Also there are editions on French,English and i guess Spanish (if you say so)...
regards:)

[Esteban]

What the hell is it usable in
metal detecting subject for!? Already known the fact that burried items do not product any ions at all!

Hard head, RObert! Always I show you the path... electric field around conductive metals! And the electric field can be detecable by the Zahori, with the corrects modifications. Also, Qiaozhi translate the text of the Zahori. As I see, nobody saw nothing in this thread. Read this part:

[Qiaozhi]

Yes... but suspect the 3130 is more sensitive. If not, why they has been designed the Zahori at the time there are many more modern ICs, with less problem of offset?

Redesign the Zahori with low noise figure demands also film resistor resistance 1%.
The main difference I can see between the CA3130 and the CA3140 is the input current and the equivalent input noise voltage.
CA3130 has Ii = 5pA @ 15V and 2pA @ 5V, and en = 23uV.
CA3140 has Ii = 10pA, and en = 48uV.
Not sure whether this would make a significant difference in this application. When you're talking about pA, there are plenty of other sources of interference to swamp these minute values of current.

[Esteban]

Qiaozhi:

Extracted info:

These are but a few of the low-cost operational amplifier models widely available from electronics suppliers. Most of them are available through retail supply stores such as Radio Shack. All are under $1.00 cost direct from the manufacturer (year 2001 prices). As you can see, there is substantial variation in performance between some of these units. Take for instance the parameter of input bias current: the CA3130 wins the prize for lowest, at 0.05 nA (or 50 pA), and the LM833 has the highest at slightly over 1 µA. The model CA3130 achieves its incredibly low bias current through the use of MOSFET transistors in its input stage. One manufacturer advertises the 3130's input impedance as 1.5 tera-ohms, or 1.5 x 1012 Ω! Other op-amps shown here with low bias current figures use JFET input transistors, while the high bias current models use bipolar input transistors.

Extracted from:

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_8/18.html

[Qiaozhi]

Qiaozhi:

Extracted info:

These are but a few of the low-cost operational amplifier models widely available from electronics suppliers. Most of them are available through retail supply stores such as Radio Shack. All are under $1.00 cost direct from the manufacturer (year 2001 prices). As you can see, there is substantial variation in performance between some of these units. Take for instance the parameter of input bias current: the CA3130 wins the prize for lowest, at 0.05 nA (or 50 pA), and the LM833 has the highest at slightly over 1 µA. The model CA3130 achieves its incredibly low bias current through the use of MOSFET transistors in its input stage. One manufacturer advertises the 3130's input impedance as 1.5 tera-ohms, or 1.5 x 1012 Ω! Other op-amps shown here with low bias current figures use JFET input transistors, while the high bias current models use bipolar input transistors.

Extracted from:

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_8/18.html
The CA3140 also has an input impedance of 1.5 Tera Ohm. It is very close to the CA3130 performance, and its not obsolete :)
I would think there are many other factors (such a poor PCB layout) that would have a bigger effect on the performance than the difference between these two devices.
Have you personally built this ion detector?

[Esteban]

Yes, I built. In some part of my labo is the PCB, all with sockets. The PCB I make by own hand, no with PCB program, 10 years ago or more. I'll search and send here the photo.

Remember I try the 3140, but perceive that the 3130 is better, I don't know why. I have this in plastic and metalic (CA3130T).

[robert]

:)
O.K. Esteban let's talk about Zahori for a while...
some remarks...:
- from your post"But in 1988 publish for positive and negative ions, looks that the zahori.
Article in Spanish. You can replace the plate by antenna."
Looking at the schematic you posted at the time i am not sure that 3130 will survive direct
connection to BC547 which at the same time provide plate polarisation!? Is this correct?
It will need some buffering and signal limitation at that point....
But, o.k. ...let's switch to the improved version you posted after that.
First instead headphones you put a cap and audio transformer at the same time you omited
scale. I do not think that output signal would be far enough to drive output transformer
and provide at least some usable tone. What you can hear is some "clicking" hum generated
from the 7555 due to poor filtering. About detection ....well, what we have here is a
wide range "detection" of noises and "airborne" hum , chopped by 7555 stage under very
strange, previously choosen, frequency rate!?
I am absolutelly sure that this device will produce some noise but not sure at all that
you can detect anything with it on longer range than 3-4 inches, and only if some
powerfull source of "signal" is placed nearby. The very same problems occurs with ivconic's
negative ion detector, although it is quite better design than zahori, at least it can
detect strong ionic field if nothing else.
O.K. I might be wrong considering this since i rely my remarks only on plain theory. I
never built zahori so far.
You made Zahori and i guess you do have some field experiences with it. Can you post here
exact reports from it?
"Hard head, RObert! Always I show you the path... electric field around conductive metals!
And the electric field can be detecable by the Zahori, with the corrects modifications.."
Thank you very much for "showing me the path"! Anyway....there is not any special electric
field around conductive metals to detect! It is a fact! Esspecially no such field around
burried metal, at all! There is for real an electrostatic field on the gnd surface and it
has for real very frequent changes, minute after minute. Those changes i guess you can
"detect" with zahori, maybe....maybe not...who knows?
"electric field around conductive metals" can be obtained only if that metal is in the area
covered by electromagnetic field generated by some source, that's how PI detectors do the job!
So it is not logical at all that you can use zahori and do the job is claimed to do. But
as i said, i never checked that in practice, i might be wrong....
I read this part again:
"We will describe how to assemble several components to construct an instrument that is able
to detect the variations in the electrical field, and indicate the ionic potential in the
immediate environment."
I cab beleive in that. But never mentioned any "conductive metals" at all! Only "variations
in the electrical field". It means that you can realy use zahori to trace changes across
some power line and simillar, and nothing else....
Further considerations are not important, device could work better or not - never mind.
The point is that zahori is not usable in this subject of metal detecting at all.
Sorry, but it is a truth! Besides i used so much 3130 and 3140 in my designs and i never
noticed such big difference among them at all. So far as i am concerned, the 709 would do
much better job than 3130 and 3140 in this design. Also some of newer rail to rail op-amps
could be much better solutions here. But what is the point!? To check electric field
variations you can do with some cheap "made in China" probes, you do not need to bug your
self with zahori at all!?
That's why i am using "obsolete" term here very often. I would like to see here some more
interesting project on that subject. I would post it if i had, but i do not yet.
I am not proponent and promoter of LRL, i am quite novice in that matter that's why i
provoked you to post here some more....
But, after all, it seems that you too, do not have any usefull project to post here.
Everything posted here man can assemble and check, than to beleive or not to beleive in
some claims. Otherwise all ends with an empty retorics.....
regards

P.S.
i hope this post is not offending you to much like in the past.....
ha,ha,ha...

[Esteban]

Regarding the ion detector for dual polarity, the both 4k7 resistence in base, one to negative load - reduces great the current, hope no motive for to think can burn the 3130.

Ok, in the Zahori, the 22 k controls the volume, note that in the original this is adjustable preset, no is fix in 22 k. So the volume is more high. Also you can up the 22 k, for example, to 47 k = more high volume. For to comprobe, you can ear the "hums" of the 4066 keys in the secondary (transformer) with earphones, but no connect yet any antenna, because in indoor is a "hell" (fluorescent lamps, cable, etc.). Adjusting the 10 k sens. pot. you can control the "hums" of the 4066 keys. The 10 k pot. put in the limit, in the start of the second stage audio circuit. This is a machine for indoor, far of electric lines and other interferences. So you put the most sensitive point with the 10 k of the Zahori. No synthetic clothes or plastic box for the instrument. I built in wood box (you can see in this same thread, page 2, the approximative model). Also Qiaozhi translate in English for all, in this same thread, the Zahori's text (0 views the both!) :(.


Of course, when you search with the 3 antennas instrument (indoor) you adjust with all the enviromental noise, internal ICs noise, 4066 "hums", etc. So over the level of the noise occurs the difference, this is the detection of the target. In some cases, noise is a reference wich put the "glitch" in delicate point, extremely sensitive. And the conductive buried target in the environment ups the microvolts in the antenna and sum. So, conductive items buried for long time has electrical field, no doubdt for me.


Don't try the 709 in this circuit, but the very high input impedance of the 3130 is the theme.

Also I redesign with 4047B as freq. generator and an only LM358. Works indoor, but I don't try in the field, yet.

Report? The only report I have of third part that found a gross heavy gold chain 1 m depth and 30 m far. Other person found antique woman comb carey and gold with gem stones, another found 4 gold coins, this same person found old wire for fences, entire roll! So, this mass of rolling wire has some thing... Is so impressive the signal, is difficult to center the objects.

The rest of the job is yours!:D

Here with the correct output:

http://www.mytempdir.com/707825

[detectoman]

hola esteban: mucho se ha discutido aqui de parte de lo escepticos, de que no es posible que un metal enterrado produzca un campo exterior que pueda ser detectado por un modificado detector ionico, quiero opinar, que segun yo creo y tengo entendido, el modo de que funciona esto, es asi:
primero :tenemos un sistema ionico en fragil balance, esto es cuando se calibra de tal manera que quede en el punto mas cercano de quiebre, seguno, se ha calibrado la vibracion ionica de tal manera que pueda ignorar las determinadas estaticas indeseables, o sea se ha modificado la ionizacion o sea el campo de actividad lanzada por medio de la antena, cuya señal es lanzada en rechazo por lo negativo del cono de aluminio o las dos antenas laterales, entonces tenemos una emision ionica lanzada , la cual lleva determinada indole, esta es lanzada hacia adelante, y al ser absorvida por los elementos idoneos, se produce un consumo o facilidad de mas facil descarga, pero los escepticos niegan que pudiera haber un halo ionico, arriba de donde hay un metal enterrado, yo creo que no han entendido el punto correcto, para mi., esa señal modificada no es simplemente iones de estatica, para mi esa señal si puede entrar bajo la tierra y ser absorvida la vibracion y hacer que el equilibrio del circuito cambie y dispare las alarmas indicadoras, tambien creo que si debe de haber un halo secundario de leve frecuencia siendo emitida desde el metal enterrado, y la explicacion es, que., todo metal son particulas en movimiento y por lo tanto en vibracion, y como toda actividad electrica produce campos, si creo que hay cierta emision de energia muy leve hacia el exterior, de todos modos no creo que sea ese halo ionico el que dispare o desequilibre el circuito del detector ionico, sino que ambos campos lo propicien, pero mas el la misma actividad energetica del metal, ya que todo es energia
espero se me entienda y que tu esteban lo expliques en un correcto ingles, ok un saludo a todos y cuidense

detectoman mexico
hello they esteban: aqui from the escepticos has been discussed much, of which it is not possible that a buried metal produces an outer field that can be detected by a modified ionico detector, I want to think, that segun I create and have understood, the way that works this, is asi: first:tenemos a ionico system in fragil balance, this is when seguno is calibrated in such a way that it is in the point but near of it breaks, the ionica vibration has been calibrated in such a way that it can ignore the certain undesirable estaticas, that is has modified ionization that is the field of activity sent by means of the antenna, whose signal is sent in rejection by the negative of the aluminum cone or the two lateral antennas, then we have a sent ionica emission, which takes certain kind, this is sent forwards, and to the being absorvida by the idoneos elements, a consumption or facility takes place of but facil unloading, but the escepticos deny above that it could have I haul ionico, of where is a buried metal, I believe that they have not understood the correct point, for my, that modified signal is not simply estatica ions, for my that signal if she can enter under the Earth and absorvida being the vibration and cause that the balance of the circuit changes and shoots the indicating alarms, also I believe that if must of having I pull ahead secondary of slight frequency being emitted from the buried metal, and the explanation is, that, all metal is particulas in movement and therefore in vibration, and like all electrica activity it produces fields, if I believe that there is certain very slight emission of energia towards the outside, anyway I do not believe that he is that I haul ionico the one that shoots or unbalances the circuit of the ionico detector, but that both fields cause it, but but the same energetica activity of the metal, since everything is energia I hope is understood to me and that your they esteban you explain it in correct ingles, ok a greeting to all and cuidense they detectoman mexico

[hung]

hola esteban: mucho se ha discutido aqui de parte de lo escepticos, de que no es posible que un metal enterrado produzca un campo exterior que pueda ser detectado por un modificado detector ionico, quiero opinar, que segun yo creo y tengo entendido, el modo de que funciona esto, es asi:
primero :tenemos un sistema ionico en fragil balance, esto es cuando se calibra de tal manera que quede en el punto mas cercano de quiebre, seguno, se ha calibrado la vibracion ionica de tal manera que pueda ignorar las determinadas estaticas indeseables, o sea se ha modificado la ionizacion o sea el campo de actividad lanzada por medio de la antena, cuya señal es lanzada en rechazo por lo negativo del cono de aluminio o las dos antenas laterales, entonces tenemos una emision ionica lanzada , la cual lleva determinada indole, esta es lanzada hacia adelante, y al ser absorvida por los elementos idoneos, se produce un consumo o facilidad de mas facil descarga, pero los escepticos niegan que pudiera haber un halo ionico, arriba de donde hay un metal enterrado, yo creo que no han entendido el punto correcto, para mi., esa señal modificada no es simplemente iones de estatica, para mi esa señal si puede entrar bajo la tierra y ser absorvida la vibracion y hacer que el equilibrio del circuito cambie y dispare las alarmas indicadoras, tambien creo que si debe de haber un halo secundario de leve frecuencia siendo emitida desde el metal enterrado, y la explicacion es, que., todo metal son particulas en movimiento y por lo tanto en vibracion, y como toda actividad electrica produce campos, si creo que hay cierta emision de energia muy leve hacia el exterior, de todos modos no creo que sea ese halo ionico el que dispare o desequilibre el circuito del detector ionico, sino que ambos campos lo propicien, pero mas el la misma actividad energetica del metal, ya que todo es energia
espero se me entienda y que tu esteban lo expliques en un correcto ingles, ok un saludo a todos y cuidense

detectoman mexico
hello they esteban: aqui from the escepticos has been discussed much, of which it is not possible that a buried metal produces an outer field that can be detected by a modified ionico detector, I want to think, that segun I create and have understood, the way that works this, is asi: first:tenemos a ionico system in fragil balance, this is when seguno is calibrated in such a way that it is in the point but near of it breaks, the ionica vibration has been calibrated in such a way that it can ignore the certain undesirable estaticas, that is has modified ionization that is the field of activity sent by means of the antenna, whose signal is sent in rejection by the negative of the aluminum cone or the two lateral antennas, then we have a sent ionica emission, which takes certain kind, this is sent forwards, and to the being absorvida by the idoneos elements, a consumption or facility takes place of but facil unloading, but the escepticos deny above that it could have I haul ionico, of where is a buried metal, I believe that they have not understood the correct point, for my, that modified signal is not simply estatica ions, for my that signal if she can enter under the Earth and absorvida being the vibration and cause that the balance of the circuit changes and shoots the indicating alarms, also I believe that if must of having I pull ahead secondary of slight frequency being emitted from the buried metal, and the explanation is, that, all metal is particulas in movement and therefore in vibration, and like all electrica activity it produces fields, if I believe that there is certain very slight emission of energia towards the outside, anyway I do not believe that he is that I haul ionico the one that shoots or unbalances the circuit of the ionico detector, but that both fields cause it, but but the same energetica activity of the metal, since everything is energia I hope is understood to me and that your they esteban you explain it in correct ingles, ok a greeting to all and cuidense they detectoman mexico

Detectoman,

Voce pode estar realmente certo nas suas afirmações.
O halo secundário que está mencionando é na verdade 'rings' que são emitidos e que as vezes confundem detectores que utilizam ressonancia magnetica. É como se jogar uma pedra em um lago. Os halos que se desprendem do local onde a pedra está é exatamente o mesmo efeito que na minha opinião se formam liberados dos objetos enterrados.

[miqui]

hi Esteban,
Do you have the PCB layout for the zahori's project?
may you send it to me in case you have it?
thanks,

miqui

miquijacobo@hotmail.com

[Esteban]

Hola Hung y Detectoman:

Realmente las palabras de Detectoman son bastante acertadas no solo para definir el fenómeno, sino también para dar una visión de cómo se debe proceder para detectarlo. Bastante importante es la mención de la palabra energÃ*a, yo estoy de acuerdo con que es una débil energÃ*a, y en el caso de tesoros no muy profundos es una gran cantidad de energÃ*a, que incluso ya ha quemado el circuito integrado o el transistor de entrada.

Es muy cierto que el detector debe estar en un punto de equilibrio tal que la más mÃ*nima diferencia de potencial en el ambiente circundante, una vez ajustado el detector con todas las influencias ambientales, dispare el gatillo sensible de la alarma.

Otro hecho a tener en cuenta es la posición del detector con respecto al objeto. Algunas veces se producen deteccciones bastante intermitentes. Entonces hay que atacar el lugar desde los 4 puntos cardinales y ver desde cuál las detecciones son más intensas y trabajar desde ese punto.

[okantex]

Hi All friends
please try to use english.I am also not an english.but if you go on using mexico language I will learn it with your helps.:)
for zahori ,in my opinion it works like a horizantal magnetometer.just gets the earth's magnetic field fluxes .does it have to take electstatic field.as a result of jump when crushed to diamagnetic materials(gold ,silver ,bronz) ,earth field density over ground increases and can be detected.this is my opinion.

Esteban
can you sent pictures of pcb pics and layouts of your modified zahori.
I would like to try it.I want the one , you and your friend used.and you say these for
"
Report? The only report I have of third part that found a gross heavy gold chain 1 m depth and 30 m far. Other person found antique woman comb carey and gold with gem stones, another found 4 gold coins, this same person found old wire for fences, entire roll! "
thanks
okantex

[Esteban]

I wrote this:

Yes, I built. In some part of my labo is the PCB, all with sockets. The PCB I make by own hand, no with PCB program, 10 years ago or more. I'll search and send here the photo.

So, I don't have PCB, I'll post the photo of old project.

Please, read and view all the pages and attachment of Zahori's thread.

[miqui]

I wrote this:

Yes, I built. In some part of my labo is the PCB, all with sockets. The PCB I make by own hand, no with PCB program, 10 years ago or more. I'll search and send here the photo.

So, I don't have PCB, I'll post the photo of old project.

Please, read and view all the pages and attachment of Zahori's thread.






hola Esteban:
me tome la oprtunidad de bajar un programa para PCB y logre diseñar un pequeño esquema, aunque no esta completo te lo envio para que con tu lo revises y si puedes trates de completarlo. el programa es gratis y lo baje de la siguiente pagina:
http://www.expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Download.htm

este es el archivo del PCB:
732

733

si tienes alguna duda o pregunta mi e-mail es:
miquijacobo@hotmail.com
o me contestas en el foro,
gracias por tu ayuda.

miqui

[Esteban]

OK, mil gracias Miqui. De hecho, tengo el Express, es muy fácil de usar, bastante bueno... solo que no tengo tiempo para hacer el PCB. Muchas gracias por tu ayuda en este foro.


OK, thousands thanks Miqui. I use the Express, is easy to use, good program... but no time now for to design it. Thanks for your help in this forum.

[Esteban]

The old modified Zahori:

[ivconic]

:mad:
Gente, gente…!?
Cuándo es usted ir y aprender a parar el usar de lengua materna aquÃ*!?
Esto es público, mundo, foro. Usted tiene que utilizar lengua inglesa
aquÃ*. , mi uno mismo entiende muy bien casi 10 idiomas.
ˇPero hay aquÃ* los muchos de la gente que puede entender solamente inglés!
Si usted desea estar aquÃ*, compartir un cierto conocimiento aquÃ* con otros, que
intentar mejorar su inglés y comenzar a usarlo. Si no usted puede
ˇutilizar el correo para los mensajes privados, no este foro, por favor!
Toma un cierto tiempo para abrir y para descargar estas páginas, y su
los postes no ayudan a un pedacito aquÃ*.
ˇrespeto!
.................................................. ........................
Povos, povos…!?
Quando se realiza vocę para ir e aprender parar de usar a lÃ*ngua nativa aqui!?
Isto é público, mundo, forum. Vocę tem que usar a lÃ*ngua inglesa
aqui. Eu, meu self compreende muito bem quase 10 lÃ*nguas.
Mas há aqui muitos dos povos que podem compreender somente inglęs!
Se vocę quiser estar aqui, compartilhar de algum conhecimento aqui com o outro, do que
tentar melhorar seu inglęs e começá-lo usá-lo. Se năo vocę pode
usar o correio para mensagens confidenciais, năo este forum, por favor!
Faz exame de algum tempo abrir e download estas páginas, e seu
os bornes năo ajudam a um bocado aqui.
consideraçăo!
.................................................. ........................
Les gens, les gens… ! ?
Quand as-tu lieu aller et apprendre cesser d'employer la langue maternelle ici ! ?
C'est public, monde, forum. Tu dois employer l'anglais
ici. Je, mon individu comprend trčs bien presque 10 langues.
Mais il y a ici un bon nombre de gens qui peuvent comprendre seulement anglais !
Si tu veus ętre ici, partager de la connaissance ici avec d'autres, que
essayer d'améliorer votre anglais et de commencer ŕ l'employer. Autrement tu peus
employer le courrier pour les messages privés, non ce forum, svp !
Cela prend un certain temps pour ouvrir et télécharger ces pages, et votre
les poteaux n'aide pas un peu ici.
respect !
.................................................. ...........................
La gente, la gente…!?
Quando avete luogo andare ed imparare smettere di usando la lingua madre qui!?
Ciň č pubblica, mondo, tribuna. Dovete usare la lingua inglese
qui. Me, il mio auto capisco molto bene quasi 10 lingue.
Ma ci č qui a.lot della gente che puň capire soltanto inglese!
Se desiderate essere qui, ripartire una certa conoscenza qui con altre, che
provare a migliorare il vostro inglese ed ad iniziare a usando. Altrimenti potete
usare la posta per i messaggi riservati, non questa tribuna, per favore!
Occorre un certo tempo aprire e trasferire queste pagine dal sistema centrale verso
i satelliti e vostro gli alberini non aiuta una punta qui.
riguardi!
.................................................. .............................

Leute, Leute…!?
Wann sind Sie zu gehen und zu erlernen, Muttersprache hier zu verwenden zu stoppen!?
Dieses ist, Welt, Forum allgemein. Sie müssen englische Sprache verwenden
hier. Ich, mein Selbst verstehe sehr gut fast 10 Sprachen.
Aber es gibt hier eine Menge Leute, die nur englisches verstehen können!
Wenn Sie hier sein möchten, etwas Wissen mit anderen hier teilen, als
versuchen, Ihr Englisch zu verbessern und es, zu verwenden zu beginnen. Andernfalls
können Sie Post für private Anzeigen benutzen, nicht dieses Forum, bitte!
Es dauert eine einige Zeit, diese Seiten zu öffnen und zu downloaden, und Ihr
Pfosten hilft nicht einer Spitze hier.
Respekt!
.................................................. ..................................
People , people ...!?
When are you go and learn to stop using native language here !?
This is public , world , forum . You have to use english language
here . Me , my self understand very well almost 10 languages .
But there are here a lot of people who can understand only english !
If you want to be here , share some knowledge here with others , than
try to improve your english and start using it . Otherwise you can
use mail for private messages , not this forum , please !
It takes a some time to open and download these pages , and your
posts does not help a bit here .
regards !
.................................................. ...............................
P.S.
I am Serbian. I am proud to be !!! But i never bug others with my language....

[hung]

:mad:
Gente, gente…!?
Cuándo es usted ir y aprender a parar el usar de lengua materna aquÃ*!?
Esto es público, mundo, foro. Usted tiene que utilizar lengua inglesa
aquÃ*. , mi uno mismo entiende muy bien casi 10 idiomas.
ˇPero hay aquÃ* los muchos de la gente que puede entender solamente inglés!
Si usted desea estar aquÃ*, compartir un cierto conocimiento aquÃ* con otros, que
intentar mejorar su inglés y comenzar a usarlo. Si no usted puede
ˇutilizar el correo para los mensajes privados, no este foro, por favor!
Toma un cierto tiempo para abrir y para descargar estas páginas, y su
los postes no ayudan a un pedacito aquÃ*.
ˇrespeto!
.................................................. ........................
Povos, povos…!?
Quando se realiza vocę para ir e aprender parar de usar a lÃ*ngua nativa aqui!?
Isto é público, mundo, forum. Vocę tem que usar a lÃ*ngua inglesa
aqui. Eu, meu self compreende muito bem quase 10 lÃ*nguas.
Mas há aqui muitos dos povos que podem compreender somente inglęs!
Se vocę quiser estar aqui, compartilhar de algum conhecimento aqui com o outro, do que
tentar melhorar seu inglęs e começá-lo usá-lo. Se năo vocę pode
usar o correio para mensagens confidenciais, năo este forum, por favor!
Faz exame de algum tempo abrir e download estas páginas, e seu
os bornes năo ajudam a um bocado aqui.
consideraçăo!
.................................................. ........................
Les gens, les gens… ! ?
Quand as-tu lieu aller et apprendre cesser d'employer la langue maternelle ici ! ?
C'est public, monde, forum. Tu dois employer l'anglais
ici. Je, mon individu comprend trčs bien presque 10 langues.
Mais il y a ici un bon nombre de gens qui peuvent comprendre seulement anglais !
Si tu veus ętre ici, partager de la connaissance ici avec d'autres, que
essayer d'améliorer votre anglais et de commencer ŕ l'employer. Autrement tu peus
employer le courrier pour les messages privés, non ce forum, svp !
Cela prend un certain temps pour ouvrir et télécharger ces pages, et votre
les poteaux n'aide pas un peu ici.
respect !
.................................................. ...........................
La gente, la gente…!?
Quando avete luogo andare ed imparare smettere di usando la lingua madre qui!?
Ciň č pubblica, mondo, tribuna. Dovete usare la lingua inglese
qui. Me, il mio auto capisco molto bene quasi 10 lingue.
Ma ci č qui a.lot della gente che puň capire soltanto inglese!
Se desiderate essere qui, ripartire una certa conoscenza qui con altre, che
provare a migliorare il vostro inglese ed ad iniziare a usando. Altrimenti potete
usare la posta per i messaggi riservati, non questa tribuna, per favore!
Occorre un certo tempo aprire e trasferire queste pagine dal sistema centrale verso
i satelliti e vostro gli alberini non aiuta una punta qui.
riguardi!
.................................................. .............................

Leute, Leute…!?
Wann sind Sie zu gehen und zu erlernen, Muttersprache hier zu verwenden zu stoppen!?
Dieses ist, Welt, Forum allgemein. Sie müssen englische Sprache verwenden
hier. Ich, mein Selbst verstehe sehr gut fast 10 Sprachen.
Aber es gibt hier eine Menge Leute, die nur englisches verstehen können!
Wenn Sie hier sein möchten, etwas Wissen mit anderen hier teilen, als
versuchen, Ihr Englisch zu verbessern und es, zu verwenden zu beginnen. Andernfalls
können Sie Post für private Anzeigen benutzen, nicht dieses Forum, bitte!
Es dauert eine einige Zeit, diese Seiten zu öffnen und zu downloaden, und Ihr
Pfosten hilft nicht einer Spitze hier.
Respekt!
.................................................. ..................................
People , people ...!?
When are you go and learn to stop using native language here !?
This is public , world , forum . You have to use english language
here . Me , my self understand very well almost 10 languages .
But there are here a lot of people who can understand only english !
If you want to be here , share some knowledge here with others , than
try to improve your english and start using it . Otherwise you can
use mail for private messages , not this forum , please !
It takes a some time to open and download these pages , and your
posts does not help a bit here .
regards !
.................................................. ...............................
P.S.
I am Serbian. I am proud to be !!! But i never bug others with my language....

Congratulations.
Nice translating work!

[ivconic]

I guess there are a lot of mistakes, but the main point is understandable...
regards...

By the way, i tried zahori for a some time, well....it can be usable in some other experiments, but in a metal detecting not much...

Although i do beleive that you just have to have some other pieces of equipment with it when prospecting....i guess...

Anyway, from the point of constructing, it is interesting....

[Esteban]

Central = 60 cm, laterals = 40-45 cm.

[okantex]

Hi Esteban
I am a newbee consructer.not an electronist.If I say something wrong please forgive me first.
I am confused of your last picture.in the picture you named "three antenna.pdf"there is something like meter.but in modified sch. nothing like that.
And in picture you sent last .there are two elctrolitic condansators like inold zahori's (which has 30a 70 cm plate antenna)battery unit.
Are photos from three antenna device you sent before or from an older one with plate antenna.
and for modified schamatic .it is not clear enough for me .is 0V antenna connected to one leg of IC4 or to S1,S2 swithces(at battery unit)

Are the founds you mentioned and you show in photos belong to this modified project or else.

Miqui congratulations,your layout is perfect.

Ivonic ,do you have chance to test your zahori like minore ( north to south).new or old buried nobel metals(they are diamagnetic meterials.gold ,silver ,bronz,bizmut)
have a nice day

[Esteban]

Hi, the meter I don't use more, no important. The laterals antennas, the both, is connected in the middle of the batteries, this is, 0 V.

Yes, yu're right, in the modified schematic isn't the two capacitors. Go the correction here. This is the modified schematic, I never use plates, only antennas. If you want to try it... go ahead!

Yes the founds was with the modified, you have in the output of the transformer the necessary signal.

You must clean very well the PCB after solder.

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Esteban
5 volt regulators require at least an 8 volt imput, you can use 2 X 9 volt battery. I think that it's better to always work with stabilized supply voltage, especially with high amplifier stages...

[Esteban]

FrancoItaly, nice to ear you!

Also try regulators and two 9 V batteries , but since my perspective doesn't work properly as 3 for positive and 3 for negative 1.5 V batteries.

What about internal resistence of batteries? I comprobe that many circuits works better with 6 X 1.5 V or 4 X 1.5 V common batteries than an only 9 V battery. Maybe?

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Esteban
I do not think that internal resistence of battery is important for our purpose, 7805 ic has a low output impedance, perhaps the 4.5 Voltage it's better than 5 V of 7805 ic.
I observe a great progress in Minero' theory revisited by many of us!

[Esteban]

:)
Hi FrancoItaly

Yes many progress you can find about Mineoro! This is a very polemic case...

[ivconic]

:)

Regarding to previous posts here on Zahori subject,also on Robert's,mine and
somebody's elses doubts, i decided to build it and test it. Although,i do not
beleive in such apparatus like Zahori,Mineoro etc. I simply could not continue
to talk here,maybe argue with some people here, without any practical experience
on that subject.So it is quite normal first to build it and test it and than to
switch on retorics. So, here is some of my notes on this Zahori subject:
First of all,i did'nt like idea on using 6x1.5v batt.'s at all. I changed that part
of schematic as follows on posted picture bellow. I respected Esteban's opinion
on not to use voltage regulators of 78xx type. Why Zahori refuses to act normal
when operating on that kind of power supply, i realy don't know, i never tested it
anyway.But using some op-amp to generate symetrical power supply from one 9V batt.
is more than good solution, it showed in many designs so far. So this supposed to be
only evasion from original schematic posted here.
So when i finished, packed it in a suitable box.On the front panel there are 3
potentiometers: "volume","sens" and "freq." As well as 2 operational switches and one
ON/OFF switch. I omited VU scale,respecting Esteban's hint too.
When switched ON, you can hear sound,loud and clear.When adjusting those pots. a
lot of strange sounds came out of apparatus.In some positions of pots. you can
acquire apparatus to stop "yelling". On the very edge of "crack and click" from the
speaker, when turning around,with antena pointing in some power source there is a
noticeable rising in tone and much louder "click" become "beep" and even "bleeep".
So there some "detection" IS going on for sure! When sight it to TV set,is detecting
it very noticeable even from the 6 meters distance!!!
Noticed even,when TV set is switched OFF but remain plugged in the wall socket, is still
detectable easy! But when tv is unplugged from wall socket, than no detection at all!
Same situation with all electronic apparatus in my house.
Step by step i have been tested and checked every situation and condition available on this
subject. I spent 3 days doing this. So now i am much,much more experienced when talking
on Zahori stuff. Of course, i did not have possibility to check it on some burried
treasure, 'cose still do not have any one around my house, but also checked it on my
test field in the backyard of my home.
NONE of the items in my test field( over 200 burried items,various depths,various
materials,various sizes and various time in gnd.-from 1 to 10 years as burried)
WAS DETECTED with this Zahori !!! Neither one detected item!!!
The very same situation and results as with my ionic detector!
I also noticed one very important thing! AC power sources and lines are very easy
detectable with Zahori.But DC power sources and lines are not, almost at all!
I also went outdoor near high voltage power line(10kV). Zahori detected it from the
80 meters distance, loud and clear !!! Also went deep in the mountain, far away from
any city noise and hum. Zahori remained silenced in 99%. On a few spots it produced
some very weak "click's", why ? I do not know, but i doubt that there is some treasure
in the ground there.
After all, what to say...? Now i am even more awared and sure that this kind of apparatus
are simply not suitable for any prospecting and relic/treasure hunting at all!
I knew that before, but wanted to make final step and build it, not just to rely my
claims on previous knowledge,science backuped facts and common sence.
The very same thing i commend to the others here.Just stop for a while with retorics.
Spend a few days,build it and test it.After that you gonna have your own experience.
Zahori is not non working joke.No, Zahori is working for real.It is detecting for real
AC sources on very respectable distances, depending of power and freq. of that source.
But it is not suitable for porspecting and as it is, this forum is just not the place
for this kind of apparatus at all. Only if somebody convince me here, that burried
treasure can produce AC charge...
Respecting the "ground battery" phenomena explained in some posts here, i think that it
has nothing related with zahori subject at all.
Of course, one more time, i would stay reserved off claiming things i never experienced
only focused on things i have been so far.
I had one mineoro on testing few months ago.The simillar behavior occured whit AC too.
I would say nothing much more on that subject due to avoiding any further argue here.
regards

[njoseph22]

To the Zahori also works with the 7805 when placing him one or two common diodes in series to the Exit, we will have this way approximately 4–4,5Volts

The Zahori works well until the 4,5 Volts, when passing above this voltage it is no longer anything sensitive.

Each diode takes place to fall of tension of approximately 0,5V, this way will have to well regulated voltage.

[Esteban]

:) Ivconic, great job!!!

On a few spots it produced some very weak "click's", why ? I do not know, but i doubt that there is some treasure in the ground there.

Check the "clicking" place with your coil MD, if you can't center with the Zahori. But sometimes your "normal" MD can't achieve the depth.

Ok, this is a device for free field, far of electric lines, always I anotice this. As I has tried (respect my posibilities), no more sensitive than the 3130 I found for this application.

Ivconic, can't see the both laterals antennas or you use a plate to 0 V?

Don't forget to connect the output of Zahori to the /comparator/timer/tone generator I post in the thread "Ivconic's Negative Ion Detector circuit". But, first, you must adjust at limit point the comparator/timer/tone generator and after connect to the Zahori's output. Don't use synthetic clothes, friction produces false alarm, metalic or wood box, better for Zahori, plastic no, the wind or friction produces erratics causes by the static electricity.

If there are a treasure or a good conductive metal buried for long time, then sure you'll find it.

Also if you make it giratory handle, you will obtain a LRL rod for be happy the LRL rod lovers :D .

Marko is a great detectorist, of the new generation! :)

[ivconic]

:)
"Ivconic, can't see the both laterals antennas or you use a plate to 0 V? "

Yes.I omited them for now.Receiving angle is wide, over 150 degrees.
I am gonna put those 2, or maybe even 4 around main, for narrowed angle of RX.
Anyway i am gonna take it with me on the field next time, just in any case, to check it more....If any results i'll post here.
Marko is already prospector with some finds.He is using my old Cscope 1220B for some time. A few coins and one ring so far! Godd for a start.
regards

[Esteban]

Yes, is a good start for Marko! :)

Maybe the aluminium dish of your project can be reduces the angle in great portion.

[Esteban]

njoseph::)

I'll try your diode implementation for future Zahori type projects.

[ivconic]

:) :) :)
Now is working! I had to disconnect and try it again! It must be the Robert's big mouth about .ru sites. I gues, Robert "loudmouth" pissed some russian hacker and provoked him to "blast" here!??? Ha,ha,ha!
Anyway,i am very sorry for occupying so much space here, but i'll repeat here my last reply:

One more thing:
I am sorry, i absolute inadvertantly forgot to mention and also omited another, very
important alteration to my hand-made device !
"So this supposed to be only evasion from original schematic posted here."
This is not true, but i changed this stage from the begining, later just forgot to
mention here. Sorry again. Michael R. Starcher done a great job with this audio stage
in his "Homebrew PI" project!
I decided to use it with Zahori due to its great performances ! An it all worked nice
togather, from start!
Overall power consumption is so small, so one 9V battery could last a few days, i guess.
Although Esteban's "/comparator/timer/tone generator " is also good! And simillar to this.
It will take a much of testing on the field to establish right overview on those adjustments
included in design.Right now i am adjusting potentiometers on wild guess,so presets might
not be proper,therefore can not claim here anything for sure. We will see.
Deep in my hearth, i would like to share Esteban's optimism about Zahori's efficiency in
prospecting.
Only time will tell...
regards:)

[ivconic]

Here is alteration of schematic...

[ivconic]

:)
Finall redraw....

[okantex]

Hi Ivonic
Do you have chance to test your zahori like minore ( north to south).new or old buried nobel metals(they are diamagnetic meterials.gold ,silver ,bronz,bizmut)
as diamagnetics ignore earth's magnetic field .they cause jumps of energy .
I detected this energy which was caused by cavity.I was using digital compass(which is getting only positive picks of earth magnetics.youknow mognometers get both + and - picks.
here only rule is to use machine in north to south direction.
excuse me for asking this?
did you test your zahori like that.
and swinging it also important to get anomaly as beep signal
have a nice day
okantex
have a nice day

[ivconic]

:)
O.K.
Next couple days..i'll try it.
I'll report here than.
regards

[Geo]

:)
O.K.
Next couple days..i'll try it.
I'll report here than.
regards

Welcome Ivconic. How are you? When you will report here please sent a photo of the construct if it is possible. I want to see the antena system.
Best Regards:) :)

[ivconic]

:)
Hi Geo!
I already posted here on this thread.List previous pages,you'll see my younger son holding it...
If you want details,than i have to open it and make some photos....no problem!
I've been visiting so many locations last month...These few days i am at home,resting....From tuesday i'll be on the field again, until september...
regards
:)

[Geo]

:)
Hi Geo!
I already posted here on this thread.List previous pages,you'll see my younger son holding it...
If you want details,than i have to open it and make some photos....no problem!
I've been visiting so many locations last month...These few days i am at home,resting....From tuesday i'll be on the field again, until september...
regards
:)

Hi Ivconic. Yes i saw your son. He likes you.
I saw the final zahori schematic and i think that you forgot a capacitor (100uF) at LM358 pin 7 to +4.5v??
Regards

[ivconic]

:)
I omited it...it works anyway...
As you can see antena is connected straight to pcb.Best way to avoid any further interference...
regards
:)

[ivconic]

One more photo...

[Geo]

:)
I omited it...it works anyway...
As you can see antena is connected straight to pcb.Best way to avoid any further interference...
regards
:)

Very good. Thanks. What are you say to put an Al plate at the back of the box. Maybe it will work as technical ground for the antena.
Regards

Btw Before a long time i told you that you are not a good constructor. Sorry i made a big mistake

[ivconic]

:)
Kala ine..
Good thinking! I avoided metal box,it is to heavy...that's why i choose to glue Al plates (hard disk bottom cover made from Al folie) on inside walls of plastic box...
About other...don't worry. No matter how anybody think is good, always shows somebody else much better...
I can be good when not to lazy...ha,ha,ha...
But i am ashamed to claim my possibilities when see so much competent people here.I am very serious about that.Not joke at all.
best regards
:)

[okantex]

Hi İvconic
could you do field test in your garden befpre you leave for your bussiness trip.I do not want to wait till september.
have a nice day
okantex

[Geo]

Hi Ivconic. Can you give us the pcb file? I want to build it and to stop the construct of anker SS60. What do you think if i made a double side pcb with the upper side to be gnd as the RF pcb's ?
Regards

[michael]

Hi Guys Here. I'm busy to build both Zahori plans ( Esteban & Ivconic altered).
Now the PCBs are ready to be mounted. Here is a Pic of second altered plan (Ivconic).
If you desire, I will put the *.pcb file. Has been tried to be without any mistake, but don't promise be so.

[ivconic]

I already posted some results...Works very sensitive on AC e field....But so far it shows none of metal detection...
Geo i draw my pcb manually, i have to scan it and than post here...No problem to do that...
Michael's pcb looks very good....I think much better than mine.
Good job Michael. I'll make one with your pcb...
I understood this Zahori thing more or less like experiment but not seriously at all. At the end it showed as very usefull when man want to locate some power lines in walls, some AC leakage etc....or in educational purposes. I like it very much,cose it works very "sharp" and clean....
But at the end....it can not detect/locate any type,kind of metal in the ground or in the air.....so far....I do not know, maybe some conditions more have to be fullfiled.....who knows?!
regards!
:)

[Geo]

Hi Guys Here. I'm busy to build both Zahori plans ( Esteban & Ivconic altered).
Now the PCBs are ready to be mounted. Here is a Pic of second altered plan (Ivconic).
If you desire, I will put the *.pcb file. Has been tried to be without any mistake, but don't promise be so.

Hi Michael. Congratulations. Very good work. Please sent the *.pcb file at the forum.
Thanks :)
Best Regards

[Geo]

:) ...
Geo i draw my pcb manually, i have to scan it and than post here...No problem to do that...
Michael's pcb looks very good....I think much better than mine.
Good job Michael. I'll make one with your pcb...

But at the end....it can not detect/locate any type,kind of metal in the ground or in the air.....so far....I do not know, maybe some conditions more have to be fullfiled.....who knows?!
regards!
:)


Hi Ivconic. Thanks but don't scan the pcb. Michael pcb looks very nice. When i will finish the Anker SS60 i will try Zahori with giratory handle, so i will obtain a LRL rod . I believe to be better than electronic LRL with NE567 he he....:) :)

Regards

[michael]

Hi. Here the *.Pcb file. I hope be useful. please write your opinions and if has any problem state it. as you see in pic I think just pin 7 of u4 (4066B) should go to +4.5V with a jumper. this was due to Ivconic hadn't put it in his schem and my drawer in mistake linked it to ground. If you need I prepare the part-list.
Oh, excuse me I tried 3 times, but couldn't upload. it seems for this forum *.pcb files are invalid. I think moderator should put these files in acceptable files list.

[Geo]

Who is the size of the file ? If it is smaller than 250kb then try to rename it.
Carl will tell us :confused:

[michael]

... I think just pin 7 of u4 (4066B) should go to +4.5V with a jumper...Excuse me I correct my purpose was -4.5 V.

Who is the size of the file ? If it is smaller than 250kb then try to rename it. the size is 174 Kb, and tried every thing; renaming .. and other trickes, didn't work.
Ecxact now, my EE friend called and told he has input frequency up to 4N35 and after that has no output to 555 he has done every thing. He told there is a point or problem and has no info of 4N35 features. If you lead us what should have done will be appreciated.

[Geo]

Excuse me I correct my purpose was -4.5 V.

the size is 174 Kb, and tried every thing; renaming .. and other trickes, didn't work.
Ecxact now, my EE friend called and told he has input frequency up to 4N35 and after that has no output to 555 he has done every thing. He told there is a point or problem and has no info of 4N35 features. If you lead us what should have done will be appreciated.

Try a resistor (10k..47k) from pin6 (4N35) to -4.5v.
Good luck

[ivconic]

:confused:
There should not be any problem with 4N35...It is ordinary optocoupler, nothing else...
Pin 6 should stay not connected...
If op-amp is o.k. it should supply proper signal through resistor to 4N35 input...
But you have to be sure that proper power supply is applied, pay attention:
4N35 need 9V not 4.5 for p.s.
I didnt have any problem with it from the start...
Check again whole....must be some mistake...
regards

[michael]

Hi. Thank you guys for your paying attention, but my friend disclaimed about 4.5 V and told up to now have been using
9 V directly from a generator with optimum amp.
Oh, as he is very busy and dislikes internet never links to, I found 4N35 datasheet by goolge search and faxed for him he told:
" now I got it"
of course he guessed one of the resistors should be deleted or changed he assured me will improve it. I will post every promotion.

About Ivconic statements; "I understood this Zahori thing more or less like experiment but not seriously at all. At the end it showed as very usefull when man want to locate some power lines in walls, some AC leakage etc....or in educational purposes. I like it very much,cose it works very "sharp" and clean....But at the end....it can not detect/locate any type,kind of metal in the ground or in the air.....so far....I do not know..."

I think it's a good sign and progression, confirms it can detect hot places. As not only me but also others who have found very old buried objects have experienced that these kind of objects are completely different from fresh targets and even one conventional detector (e.g. PI) behaves thoroughly different in comparison with fresh targets. they dodge hunters and play with device.
for this reason here we name fresh targets as dead and very old buried as live objects. I think this is just for the field around them ( or other thing in that place) that all high-experienced ( Dell, Damassio,...) talk about.
Esteban is sure if there is any very old(especially big) buried objects, Zahori will beeps. and this can be the basis mineoro works.
Esteban is a nice man that we can hardly find in world. every time I needed he helped me and answered at once.
I think there is no reason Esteban to lie us that he has found some objects by mineoro.
If I complete this project I will take both devices to my very hot zones wherever are free of any manmade fields. and at least perceive that what is doing mineoro. please keep your leadings here. Regards.

[ivconic]

:)
It is possible that op-amp u used is providing weak output signal to 4N35, in that case you should correct resistor value.
About Esteban...I agree. Athough i am such a big sceptic in long range locating, i can not aprove oposite yet...Fact is that it never worked in my hands so far. Maybe one day....who knows?
regards
:)

[Geo]

Hi Michael. What about *.pcb file. Please can you sent it to me with email ??
Regards

[michael]

Hi. yes and I sent it to your e-mail (gvrond@excite.com). as I wrote in page 3 don't forget to change the jumper place in pin7 of U4 IC.

[Geo]

Hi. yes and I sent it to your e-mail (gvrond@excite.com). as I wrote in page 3 don't forget to change the jumper place in pin7 of U4 IC.
Hi Michael. I took it. Protel 99SE file ??? Oh.. very very good:) :) . Congratulation:) :)
Thanks:) :)
Best Regards

[michael]

Yes, and sent one for Ivconic (ivconic@yahoo.com). As I asked before please write your opinions and if has any problem or during mounting the board encountered to specific point state it. Regards.

[Geo]

As I asked before please write your opinions and if has any problem or during mounting the board encountered to specific point state it. Regards.

Ok Michael. I will write you my opinion when i will construct it. Maybe next month when i will finish the Anker SS60.
Regards

[okantex]

Hi Michael
could you please send me schematic and pcb files ,too.
I want to keep it in my library.
okantex2000@yahoo.com

[michael]

Okantex, I sent *.pcb file for you, but the schematic is in my PC at work. tomorrow morning will send it. Please give your notes and opinions about. If need to any notice &... it will be appreciated.

[goldfinder]

Esteban,
You seen to be the expert on all this zahori testing and Minero. Are the ions off the ore/metal/gold sites negative or positive ions?

Or is there some combination or interaction on the ions that would help us made a detection?

I have built several ion detectors, tested them in the field, and have found various places that emit negative ions (probably electrons) and some of the ion fields seem to pulse ions.

Any light you could shed on this perplexing subject would be appreciated.

Good THing 2 U,
Goldfinder

[michael]

Hi guys, last night my EE friend called me and said come here I have nearly finished the project.
I immediately went to his workshop just saw a mounted PCB without any antenna or box, but working very good; inspite of various exist fields, when we passed a coin over the board it would give a distinct beep. in my opinion
it can do something.
He told me " honesty at first I didn't think it's able to detect such clear and well."
Then he added " we should make some little changes in PCB and make the latest board, but by the time this can work"
It's supposed to take it at weekend after putting in box.
as you see changes is made in white ellipses (moved S3 place, link pin1 U5 to -9V, link jumper pin7 to -9v and thickened +9v & GND tracks.

[goldfinder]

Hi Michael,
Are you sure the circuit response was due to the coin or maybe you were electrostatically charged and that would certainly affect the circuit and make it respond since the circuit is basically an electrostatic detector.

Goldfinder

[michael]

What I found out was; every disturbance in field induced signal; with bare hand weak signal, with coin stronger and with a magnet the most strong (from a fixed distance).
maybe metal in hand collects most body field around.
of course when we turned on cell phone or switched on an off device induced signal.

[detectoman]

quiero felicitar a ivconic y a esteban y a todos los que investigan acerca de modificar el zahori , y estoy seguro de que obtendran mejores logros, estoy muy entusiasmado en este que considero es el mas increible detector practico que haya sido inventado, claro esta aun esta en desarrollo, pero le veo mucho futuro" en cuanto al mineoro creo que puede ser rebasado por este zahori ya que es discutido entre todos
yo creo que cualquier detector que intente ser impulsados sus emisiones a distancia precisa de una parabola de lanzamiento de su señal por rechazo de energia contraria
lo demas solo se podra conseguir en base a seleccion
my congratulationes esteban and ivconics

from mejico"
detectoman

[Esteban]

Some experiments demonstrates that the buried metal can produces negative or positive charges. If the environment is positive in a particular day, the metal becomes negative. If negative, the metal acquires positive charge. This is the "reason" why is important to detect the rapid variation in the site of the buried metal, positive or negative, and as the article refers (translate in English by Qiaozhi in this thread, read it!!!), Zahori detects the most minimum umbalance of charges, positive or negative. The article also refers that is possible to detect various kinds of fields, not only the AC fields, in theory also radiactivity. Buried metal for long time contain a quantity of energy. The oscillator based on the 555 justly despolarize the antenna in the supossed case it acquires nocive charges for the detection.

[ivconic]

:)
Detectoman le agradece por felicitaciones. Pero sobre todo era persistencia de Estebans. Yo… Acabo de agregar algunas extremidades en él. Es dispositivo agradable para detectar algunas cargas eléctricas. Pero demostró hasta ahora no ninguna detección del metal. Veré en futuro. Quizá él necesidad algunas modificaciones más.
Respeto
:)

[michael]

Hi to all. I fulfilled the zahori and took it for some test and searchings.
at first it's necessary for me thank to Esteban for his helps and favors to me, in fact without his meekly leadings I never could experience such a detector.
the results were;
1- it detects every electronic line or field very well.
with medium sensitivity it has no reaction for an off light ,but when turn it on gives signal at least from 4 meters. and detects a refrigerator plugged in switch from 6 meters.
2- In remote areas without any kind of manmade field, if you set in medium sens, works very stably and you can sweep very fast.
we swept many places that couldn't do by yesterday.
but by increasing sens will have many signals. the best length of antenna was 50-60 Cm. the best way to find out for best set is similar to mineoro by touching the antenna and hearing beeps then can adjust by sens and threshold volums.
I must confess that it was first time experienced such a reliable remote sensor.
we can call it a Conventional RS.
of course we found no metal object everywhere. Even when took it for our buried test target(60 cm x 40 cm x 30 cm metal box full of iron in 3 meters depth) never gave beep.
Only in one place (very near a big stone) we had suspicious beeps for every time and from every side we had a different singnal there. may be was from under the stone.
here was the place we had searched it befor by our PI but had no signal .
3- we had no signal for every kind of flowing water.in river or rivulet.
It's limitations:
1- It will be affected by wind seriously. in windy day working is impossible.(especially when wind speed is 30km/h and more)
2- even when you set in medium sens, you should stop and move device when walk or step, gives beep. the way is step, stop then move it and this reduce your speed, unless you search by low sens. I guess if it's able to detect a big long buried object, maximum distance won't be longer than 10 meters.
This 2 limitations worried me about mineoro LDLs; If those have such limitations?
Hung, Esteban, Mosha and others who have experienced mineoro, please inform me yes or no?
Can we tell Zahori is a shadow of mineoro?
By the way I have a short Wmv file of how zahori works. If anybody desire, I will send it for.

[mosha]

Hi to all. I fulfilled the zahori and took it for some test and searchings.
at first it's necessary for me thank to Esteban for his helps and favors to me, in fact without his meekly leadings I never could experience such a detector.
the results were;
1- it detects every electronic line or field very well.
with medium sensitivity it has no reaction for an off light ,but when turn it on gives signal at least from 4 meters. and detects a refrigerator plugged in switch from 6 meters.
2- In remote areas without any kind of manmade field, if you set in medium sens, works very stably and you can sweep very fast.
we swept many places that couldn't do by yesterday.
but by increasing sens will have many signals. the best length of antenna was 50-60 Cm. the best way to find out for best set is similar to mineoro by touching the antenna and hearing beeps then can adjust by sens and threshold volums.
I must confess that it was first time experienced such a reliable remote sensor.
we can call it a Conventional RS.
of course we found no metal object everywhere. Even when took it for our buried test target(60 cm x 40 cm x 30 cm metal box full of iron in 3 meters depth) never gave beep.
Only in one place (very near a big stone) we had suspicious beeps for every time and from every side we had a different singnal there. may be was from under the stone.
here was the place we had searched it befor by our PI but had no signal .
3- we had no signal for every kind of flowing water.in river or rivulet.
It's limitations:
1- It will be affected by wind seriously. in windy day working is impossible.(especially when wind speed is 30km/h and more)
2- even when you set in medium sens, you should stop and move device when walk or step, gives beep. the way is step, stop then move it and this reduce your speed, unless you search by low sens. I guess if it's able to detect a big long buried object, maximum distance won't be longer than 10 meters.
This 2 limitations worried me about mineoro LDLs; If those have such limitations?
Hung, Esteban, Mosha and others who have experienced mineoro, please inform me yes or no?
Can we tell Zahori is a shadow of mineoro?
By the way I have a short Wmv file of how zahori works. If anybody desire, I will send it for.

mineoro also affected by wind.
mineoro has positive ion emmiter circuit and square antenna.

[michael]

mineoro also affected by wind. Thank you Mosha, it's an unfortunate for mineoro. Do you mean in every wind speed?
It's queer they don't state anything about wind effect on their instruments in "Technical Inform" column in their site!!!
But, what about walking with it? can you easily walk, wave device left to right & VS and go ahead without any noise whereas sens is in medium ?
mineoro has positive ion emmiter circuit and square antenna. What do you mean ? please explain more.

[mosha]

I have no problem with walking and waving it right & lift, but waving up & down sometimes it beebs and need adjust the tuning.


the champer of mineoro emit positive ions and I dont think it is act as antenna, the antenna is a square frame around pcb.

[hung]

mineoro also affected by wind.


No. It's not!

If that was the case, I could never use it inside my car with windows open, which I do with no problems.
Sometimes in the beach if the wind is realy strong it can emit occasional beeps ONLY IF IT'S TUNED TO MAX SENS. This due to electrostatics and salinization, but nothing that will avoid detection.
Again, the only limiting factors to detection is high humidity and low ionic fields. That's all.

According to Michael's description of Zahori behavior, although it works employing electrical field detection, the Mineoros are eons ahead this detector in terms of effectiveness and the Zahori lacks the main feature. The ionic chamber concept and essential info to be able to classify the gold ion.

[mosha]

the wind affect electrostatic phenomena, which is not the same case when your search in your car.

mineoro dosen't detect gold ions, mineoro detect earth battery, and beacuse gold dosen't corrosion, it act as earth battery almost for good, that why mineoro only detect gold.

[ivconic]

:)
Michael , finally you did a good job. You should done this before, to have simillar experiences
than to be conversant to argue here on these threads about many stuff. Congratulations on your
design!Looks very pro and nice, your device. My experiences with Zahori on the field are exactly
the same as yours which give us full right to claim some conclusions here....
"1- it detects every electronic line or field very well."
Yes it is true.Sad fact is that it can only detect just AC e fields and nothing else SAME AS
MINEORO ! It is fact! I do not need to repeat here all of my experiences with both devices so
far.

Mosha: "mineoro also affected by wind.
mineoro has positive ion emmiter circuit and square antenna."
Again true! Mineoro manufacturers followed the very same logic i followed when designed Ivconic
negative ionic detector by applying "positive ion emmiter" (if there is any???) in Mineoro case,
and positive coupled dish in "ivconic negative ionic detector" case.
My logic was to try to detract any random positive ion arround the device and just to attract
negative ions to telescope area....
But at the end (in both cases) it showed as very unsuccesfull logic, cose both devices doesnt
detect metal....any kind of it. Both are very sensitive to AC e field and its sources...

"Mineoros are eons ahead this detector in terms of effectiveness and the Zahori lacks the
main feature. The ionic chamber concept and essential info to be able to classify the gold
ion."
Again very aggressive advertisment for Mineoro....I dont think so Hung! Michael checked Zahori and
i did that, and we have same experiences. You have Mineoro and i had 2 devices from them but our
experiences are much different? Why? How come that Mineoro works perfect for you and not for me
and many other people here??? What makes you lucky one and rest of us ignorants???
Mineoro is not "eons" ahead! Mineoro is "mummblejumbled" Zahori look-like device and nothing
else! Man can not detect nothing with both devices ....period!
Michael is coming to awake finally and it is very good for his budget! Michael you gonna save a lot
of money realizing real truth!
As you said, you have very good PI. Keep using it, sooner or later it will return all money
invested in it. I do have several PI's and i am very satisfied with those.
Those rare ocassional beeps you gained from your Zahori are from differential ground conditions
you meet ocassionally.....Earth static....etc...
Go visit some ULF site...many explanations there....
I do not want to start new argue on old subject. No not at all!
I am just glad to see that some things becomes much brighter lately!
Best regards!



:)

[hung]

Mosha: I already used the FG80 with strong winds. No problem. Damasio told me he used his detector with wind speeds of more than 60 Km/hour. No problem.

Now the good news for you: I talked to Damasio this afternoon and all owners of pre new series are in the list to be given a new replacement model , in your case, the DC2007. Contact Mineoro ASAP.

Again, detectors like DC2007, early GDPs and GDMs, had component problems due to bad manufacturing. Only the DC 2008 and FGs have reliable components. Maybe your DC2007 is in the case above. Don't worry you will get a new detector.

Ivconic: Do you think Damasio and Alonso are not aware of every single detector on earth? Think again.
Damasio told me this afternoon he already built several, several Zahoris in the past. Models with 2, 3 even 4 antennas. Used CA 3140 and its variations.
Zahori is just an electrostatic field detector. THAT'S ALL.

Comparing this unit with the FG80 for instance? C'mon, give me a break!
Bear in mind the ionic phenomena and its variations have been studied by the two gentleman above for almost 50 years! Nothing is new to them. Only their achievements.
Everything you or others say about the Mineoros are just especulation. You don't know the device.
Sorry.

[Esteban]

Those rare ocassional beeps you gained from your Zahori are from differential ground conditions you meet ocassionally.....Earth static....etc...

Ivconic: Walk in other direction and return in the area where you obtain the beeps. If you pick other, check very well the area AROUND the beep. You require experience for to recognize spontaneous potential on Earth and target electric - ion field.

Michael: Very good job!!! Good luck!!! Insist more and check well.

I and others can't compare the Zahori with Mineoro's devices. Mineoro's machines are ellaborate product, Zahori is a begining for experiment.

[michael]

Mosha: I already used the FG80 with strong winds. No problem. Damasio told me he used his detector with wind speeds of more than 60 Km/hour. No problem. very good news if be so.

detectors like DC2007, early GDPs and GDMs, had component problems due to bad manufacturing. Only the DC 2008 and FGs have reliable components.if it's so, it is good news, then won't be any whine and groan of users.
I hope and wish never happen this for new models and users. Anyway people like as Ivconic are right due to the past problems in mineoro machines.
Ivconic: Do you think Damasio and Alonso are not aware of every single detector on earth? Think again.
Damasio told me this afternoon he already built several, several Zahoris in the past. Models with 2, 3 even 4 antennas. Used CA 3140 and its variations.
Zahori is just an electrostatic field detector. THAT'S ALL.This was the same affair I was thinking about. although I invested about total 100 $ for both 1 & 3 antennas and prepared the Esteban PCB for 3 antenna, I gave up continuing to fulfill it.

[ivconic]

:p
"Everything you or others say about the Mineoros are just especulation. You don't know the device.
Sorry."

"Sorry" is all mine...I do not especulate at all. I had 2 devices in the past. Now i am having FG78 on test for 2 weeks again....So many times checked, disected....Every part of it checked electronically......What to say? I do know very well what to claim here....But...never mind,who want to listen and beleive - welcome ...others i do not mind...think whatever you want to think...Your money is all your...

"Walk in other direction and return in the area where you obtain the beeps. If you pick other,
check very well the area AROUND the beep. You require experience for to recognize spontaneous
potential on Earth and target electric - ion field."

Thanks Esteban.I intend to experiment more with it for sure.I'll listen your hints and i'll try that way....


"I and others can't compare the Zahori with Mineoro's devices. Mineoro's machines are ellaborate product, Zahori is a begining for experiment."


I do not know what was initial idea with Mineoro but for Zahori i am sure:
Zahori is ment to be very useable apparatus in industry, when checking AC leakage....

I am very interested to find out if there is any natural phenomena that burried pile of metal (any kind) for a longer time can produce AC charge...in that case i am very sure we can use Zahori to detect it....It will need much more experiments....So far it showed none of detection in that way....I am sorry...
regards
:p

[Esteban]

Yo'ure the AC producer!! You must be move right to left or left to right (depend of your political inclination, OK this is a joke :D ) all the moment while you're walking. Your movement is the AC, because you never stay quiet, so the signal is pick with the alternating slow movementt of your arms. You obligate to change the voltage in the input in the moment pick a voltage variation in the area.

[hung]

:p
"Now i am having FG78 on test for 2 weeks again....So many times checked, disected....Every part of it checked electronically......What to say? :p

My dear Ivconic.
I say as I did before, chances are the FG78 has BAD COMPONENTS. This is not Mineoro's fault. This is the components manufacturer's. fault. This was then discovered and traced by Mineoro. Read my post about this in the past months.

You can off course, 'dissect' your Mineoro unit as you want just for educative purposes and have a 'tour' inside the box. You won't get anything more than that.

[Qiaozhi]

My dear Ivconic.
I say as I did before, chances are the FG78 has BAD COMPONENTS. This is not Mineoro's fault. This is the components manufacturer's. fault. This was then discovered and traced by Mineoro. Read my post about this in the past months.

You can off course, 'dissect' your Mineoro unit as you want just for educative purposes and have a 'tour' inside the box. You won't get anything more than that.
Hmmm...
"...the FG78 has BAD COMPONENTS. This is not Mineoro's fault." :confused:
They must have pretty poor quality control then, since it managed to leave the factory and get sold to some unsuspecting victim. A fairly sad state of affairs, I would say. :(

[ivconic]

:)
Esteban i agree with you. I had that on my mind, therefore i picked up antistatic clothes when checked it...There are plenty of other AC sources in nature, thats why Zahori and simillar devices are so unreliable to work with.
You just never know is it something really detected or not.Of course you can turn arround and "sniff" more, change angles,directions...but at the end you are not sure again.
About FG... Well, what to say? Money was spend for it? Huge money! Poor customer is living in Europe, and it is much complicated now to send it back and replace with newer one.....shipment....costs....nervs...
I am curious what RObert is gonna say about that?? Ha,ha,ha....He is somewhere, on some Greek island......He'll return in October and than we'll see! .....Ha,ha,ha...
Much more luck with those kind of devices people!
regards
:rolleyes:

[hung]

1 - It's not Mineoro's fault because it had never happened in the past with the PDC series. Unfortunately some components from the usual manufacturer proved UNRELIABLE. This means it would't carry a steady function. It varied badly. Although all devices are tested prior to leaving the factory they can't hold the devices for weeks in testing. It's impractical. When the customer finds or suspects his unit is deffective, he only needs to contact the factory to investigate and not come to forums to bash Mineoro. This is stupid and shows what kind of researcher this poor fella is.
The civilized customer just contacts the factory and reports the case. No drama or hysterical reactions. If proved faulty, the device is imediately replaced.

2 - All deffective units are replaced. The customer only needs to contact the factory. Unfortunately many decide to perform a little show to get publicity instead of doing the right thing.

[Qiaozhi]

:)
I am curious what RObert is gonna say about that?? Ha,ha,ha....:rolleyes:
So am I. It should be very amusing. ;) I could do with a good laugh... :D :D :D

[sony]

:mad:
To Hung...

* INSIDE MINEORO 210
* MINEORO DETECTORS EXPLANATION
* MINEORO FALSE NEWS
* MINEORO FG80
* MINEORO FRAUD
* MINEORO GALLERY
* MINEORO NEWS
* MINERO
* ZAHORI
These are threads among many others where you Hung reside mostly. If man read all your posts
so far (so much same words,retorics,advertisments) he'll get uncureable pain in his a..
Cant you see that nobody agree with you here any more?
Cant you see that everyone knows what is your decision here?
You are payed mineoro promoter.Your job is to defend,promote and advertise mineoro products here.
MAN YOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND BY NOW THAT THIS IS TECHNICAL FORUM. TECHNICAL FORUM IS FOR PEOPLE TO
SHARE,EXCHANGE,MOD,IMPROVE,DISCOVER......
NOBODY HERE SUSPECT SOME DEVICE WITHOUT VERY GOOD REASON. REVERSE E. IS ALL ABOUT LEARNING MORE
FROM OTHERS, NOT JUST TO COPY....IT IS NOT PIRACY.
PIRACY IS WHEN YOU MAKE ILEGAL COPY AND SELL FOR MONEY....NOT WHEN YOU DISECTED TO LEARN AND STUDY.
YOU MUST HAVE SOME DECENCY AND STOP BASHING HERE WITH YOUR NONSENCES ANY MORE.
PLEASE DO THAT! PLEASE STAY OFF POSTING NONSENCES HERE AT LEAST FOR A WEEK OR TWO! PLEASE!
AND PLEASE BEFORE YOU START POLLUTING SOME THREAD FIRST READ TWICE WHAT IS THAT THREAD ABOUT!
PLEASE, DO NOT MIX SUBJECTS ANY MORE LIKE YOU DID IN ZAHORI THREAD!
ZAHORI THREAD IS ABOUT ZAHORI NOT ABOUT MINEORO! CANT YOU AT LEAST READ AND UNDERSTAND TITLE OF
THREAD !?
DO NOT SEND PEOPLE IN ASYLYM TO TAKE YOUR PLACE THERE MAN!
NOBODY LISTEN YOU ANY MORE! YOU JUST WASTING SPACE HERE!
SOMEBODY SHOULD CLEAR UP THIS MAN SOME THINGS YET!

We just lost dear friend Jackdetect who was real deviser,real EE,expert....His work stay unfinished
because sudden death, and lack of money in last couple years. I feel so sorry and mad at the same
time! While some CREATURES have much more money than they need, and can afford to spend time,space
and money everywhere to bash and bug everyone.....at the same time some real enthusiasts do not
have chance even to speak from time to time...
If you had at least some decency you'll shut up for a while!

[ivconic]

:eek:
I am FRAUD,MOUNTEBANK....!!!!
I just sold Zahori to a guy for 50 euros !!!
He insisted to buy it,cose he is sure that can detect items with it???
So i sold it.....
Am i FRAUD?
Yes!
Ha,ha,ha....
Think twice about this....
It is not fair to use ignorance of some people to earn some money, but if they insist.....ts,ts,ts.....
Somehow i feel like mineoro owners or Thomas Afillani....
:eek:

[Qiaozhi]

:eek:
I am FRAUD,MOUNTEBANK....!!!!
I just sold Zahori to a guy for 50 euros !!!
He insisted to buy it,cose he is sure that can detect items with it???
So i sold it.....
Am i FRAUD?
Yes!
Ha,ha,ha....
Think twice about this....
It is not fair to use ignorance of some people to earn some money, but if they insist.....ts,ts,ts.....
Somehow i feel like mineoro owners or Thomas Afillani....
:eek:
What??? Only 50 euros!! :eek:
You should have asked for 5000 euros. :D :D
At least Zahori is a proper electronic circuit. It may not detect gold, but at least it does something. :)

[michael]

And one person proposed more than 550$ for it, but I refused.:D :D

[ivconic]

:rolleyes:
Than i have proposition for you;

I'll manufacture those in a huge series and you be my salesman.....later we will split money!
How about that?
I am not very good in trades so i'll better stay in workshop....
:rolleyes:

[michael]

Thank you for your plan, but due to my believes and conscience I don't like these ways to make money. If I wanted, would easily make money on these ways and to do jobbery of some people ignorance and credulity. I like money earning without swindling others.:D :D
maybe you taunt me for ordering FG80, but you know I'm not credulous who easily pay money for anything.
I made my assessments and got that mineoro detectors work, but maybe not necessarily as is being claimed. we reached to end of ways for our locations and no other choice, unless mineoro.
very bored and despaired of conventionals, what's new in TH affair? do you know better than Lorenze deepmax X3? (or conceivably Genesis) then what? so many places will remain unscanned.
maybe we get not satisfying results by mineoro, and after that we will really give up any kind of THing cos can conclude present technology can’t pervade to those purposes we want.
Do you have any good suggestion?

[ivconic]

:cool:



R A M A C



:cool:

P.S. or some other georadar....

[michael]

I have seen the info about those, but:
1- Have you yourself used of them? how sure are you that it can detect an small copper pot in e.g. 4 meters depth, as you know GPRs has so many limitations: soil mineralization and humidity,...
2- How many peoples are there with reports of founds by GPRs? would you please inform me or give an address?
3- what's their search speed? when wandering in huge area how quick can search?
4- Are able to scan hard slopes in mountains, valleys or hills?
As I have said before we presume that we have one fantastic conventional pinponter Instrument which is able to easily detect one coin at 20 meters depth, and shows it's real graph, and even discriminate very precisely, then can we search by it wild impassable terrains in short times? of course not. this is the nature of conventionals. I like powerful pinpointers and we started our works with MDs, but after hearing the news of some success by omnitrone, inclined to LRLing.
at first I was little skeptic and much more curious about LRLing till that time I got acquainted to that weird friend who was really able to find gold by his homemade MFD, what a pity... this caused us...Notsi... our homemade MFD + DDL and now...
all of conventional detectors are complementary tools for professional THing.
I have seen Lorenze Deepmax X3 working; it's superb, where exp 4000 couldn't show anything, it found a small copper pot at 4 to 4.5 meters depth. all were shocked, but what's advantage can't scan most areas at least for most of our location is useless.
now you propose RAMAC GPRs which are much palsy than good MDs? not good, not. GPRs are not appopriate option.
Zahori, was a new thing, admittedly unable to MDing, but was good point and gave us opinion for very easy search. we thought if mineoro be 1/20 what is advertised is enough for us.
of course we will work in combination method with mineoro, unless its' pinponter works as well as being claimed.

[ivconic]

:(
Not yet! I just saw on picture on the .net....It is damn expensive! Very Hot!
By now i can only dream about it!
But i heard a lot of positive experiences with it!
Sebian Institutes (Archeology...blah,blah) have one of those...
They discovered huge roman city under the ground (400x350 meters) on 15 meters depth without digging. Last summer they started to dig and it showed 100% accurate!
You may try to find about that on Google by term Viminatium or Viminacijum or simillar, right now i can not remember proper term...

For other you posted....i can talk about it, but now i am in a hurry....I'll post answer in a few days...
Regards!
:)

[Dell Winders]

Ground penetrating Radar can be beneficial in some soil conditions. Whenit is feasible, I use GPR to confirm my MapDowsing & MFD/LRL locations. Dell

[michael]

Yes Dell, that's it and many more than this. the simplest problem is the size and volume of equipments & implements. and that in which even MD using is illegal and have no right to own MDs or anything like these it's a double problem.

Ivconic, no one here (as me & you)search for buried constructions; walls, monuments, city, murals,...
we just search for precious metals, anywhere it can be. these are good for archeological surveys and researches, not us. I know by a kind of magnetometer/Gradiometer (probably GSMP-30) around the Perspolis in Iran found a buried city, but no report of noble metals.
or I watched an amazing genuine movie of one excavation project from( I think was about Mayas era in Mexico) that they found many buried rooms and murals by means of one type of GSMP mag/grad (of course with help of a professional archeologist helps & leadings) it was overwhelming, but no precious metal. what's the advantage?!!
as we by an cheap E/M finder (Rover C) could frequently find some structures; Graves, tunnel, well,....., but these are not resolver our difficulties.
Except to pyramids cultures, most treasures or hidden hoards are being found far from ancient cities. as they mostly didn't hide their saves in homes. it's risk to invest for finding a city that may has a treasure or not, whereas these kind of activities (if were efficient) can be done only by governments
not in illegal forms.

[ivconic]

:)
"Ivconic, no one here (as me & you)search for buried constructions; walls, monuments,
city, murals,...we just search for precious metals, anywhere it can be. these are good
for archeological surveys and researches, not us. I know by a kind of magnetometer/Gradiometer
(probably GSMP-30) around the Perspolis in Iran found a buried city, but no report of noble
metals..."

Well....i am not part of that story....I am electronic enthusiast...Started to get interested
in metal detectors,started to handmade those,slowly step by step i just enetered in metal
detecting world.....And now it is to late to stop. Kind of "infected" with those for lifetime.
I am not deeply interested in finding any special treasure....although i wouldnt mind if found
some,somewhen....But my primary interest is MD electronics. Later i started to go on the field
to see MD's in real life....Also started to collect some coins,relics and got "infected" with
those too.....numismatics...
But my primary "love"&interest are conventional metal detectors; IB's and PI's....
I am not some prospector, no not at all...
Also interested in remote sensing principles....
So far i have been seen and tested so many devices.....
My experience gives me right to dare to say here that it is not possible to detect one single
coin on greather depth than 50-60cm's with known methods and devices today...
So when somebody claim, that coin could be detectable on few meters and even more depth, than
i do not know what to think; either it is lie, either i havent seen everything yet!
Conventional, "mainstream" science(electronic&physics part), did not claimed and proved
popular "remote sensing" at all. There is no such device yet,with which you can detect single
coin deeper than stated before...
Take any model,type,any manufacturer.....check,test...and you'll see that i am right.
Somebody (i think KT315) claimed that some Anker md can detect coin on 60 cm depth. TO tell
you the truth i doubt that. I am ready to beleive that Anker can detect coin on 60cm "depth"
only by specially prepared conditions, in the air, with sensibillity "busted" to maximum,with
large diammeter coil, far from the ground conditions,hum and any interferences...
But when the very same device you adjust to be stabile for useable working on the real field
than you gonna realize that it can not detect same coin under 40-45cm in the air and some
20-30 cm burried in the ground....
Problem is not in that Anker model,no, not at all. The very simillar results you will gain
with almost every known model on market today. O.K. it can be some minor differences,let's
say some 5-6cm up or down in favour on some better models....but that it is.No any
"revolutionar" differences at all. They (devices) are all very simillar.
Preblem is concept - electromagnetic field, its drawbacks and merits....
But i never wanted deeper detector than some which can find coin on 40-45 cm....
Real differences are in abillity to discriminate with higher rate of accuraacy...That's what
really interesting me....that's what i want to establish. When prospecting on the real field
to know exactly what item i founded without/before digging....

So far it showed that Minelab detectors are most accurate among others....Newer White's models
also....Fisher,Troy.....They all are very close...
But let's back to subject here!

I also had chance to meet some of remote sensing principles so far. But when learning something
new, i always rely on exact science,mostly physics and later electronics. Already established,
tested and many times proven methods and priciples. That's how i approached to remote sensing
subject.

First i visited almost all available internet sites with simillar subject.Also founded some
books. Later i saw what other people are thinking about that.
So, by now i do know a lot of about remote sensing,although i can not say that am expert, but
still i do feel conversant to claim some claims here.
So, there is no way to detect small metalic item (size of a coin, more or less) deeper than
few tenths of centimeteres IN THE GROUND....NO WAY !
No such device yet!
You are free to beleive what ever you want, but sooner or later you gonna realize that my words
are true!
If some people made oposite claims here (like Hung and Esteban)...than i do not know what to say!
I would like to keep an open mind and continue to beleive that i have much more to see and learn
in my life....I do not want to beleive that those claims are false,faked,fabricated and bogus.
Also i noticed phenomena that so many people arround the world (also here arround me) maybe,
and i repaeat "MAYBE" do really have some "unantural" or "extrasence" abilities to sence some
things very remote, using some L-rod, or Odd or some other kind of apparatus.
Those people are not fully awared of those "skills", so always (by the rule) they interpreting
those erroneously.
So i am more ready to beleive that Hung and Esteban do have "skills" and that's how i can
explain their claims that mineoro really works in their hands ( so far no one else made simillar
claims here...)...I am more ready to beleive that, than to think and beleive that Hung and Esteban
are posting lies here and fabricated claims.
Why i do not beleive in mineoro? Very simple! It is not working....period. It is bogus device.
Same as Zahori.....same as ivconic negative ion detector....(although i never claimed that my
device can detect anything else but ions)...
So mineoro,zahori and my experimental ion detector are fakes and bogus for metal detecting.True.
But same as my ion detector can detect ions, also mineoro and zahori are detecting something?
What? Zahori is very sensitive and good to detect ac e.field and therefore very useable in
industry for checking eventual ac leakage....What about mineoro? Yes, it is detecting something,
I am very sure! It is detecting some kind of hum or radio waves or some interferences....
But for sure not what claimed to be!
What mineoro supposed to be, by its manufacturers claims, it is not possible! That kind of
device is not existing yet! And probably never will!
Hung made so many claims about his finds with mineoro...I am ready to beleive that Hung is very
experienced and skilled dowser in whose hands any tool can do the job, even mineoro...
Esteban also...
Next time, Hung, please take with you some rowlock (wooden) on the field and try do dowse with
it...I am sure that you gonna find items same as with mineoro....

Me,myself...i do not have simillar skills....even more...mineoro is not working in my hands at
all. I tried so many times....It is just "beeping" randomly...also odds,rawlocks,L-rods....
So i am stucked to conventional md's for lifetime.... I do not complain so far, trust me!
But i am still standing here with very open mind...only need proofs and personal experiences.
regards

:)

[Qiaozhi]

Hi my friend ivconic,

I wholeheartedly agree. :)
Except on one small (maybe big??) point - I don't believe in dowsing either. As I've said before, it's all a trick of the mind. :p

There is no place in physics for either LRLs or dowsing. Both are bogus.
That's why no-one can pass the various challenges (all with large sums of money at stake) using these techniques. The same goes for other so-called psychic phenomemon. They can be a good basis for fictional stories, but that's all they are - complete fiction. :cool:
http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/images/misc/progress.gif

[Carl-NC]

My experience has been that people who claim they can dowse, or claim to have an LRL that Really Works, completely and utterly fail when I am watching.

But I disagree that there is no room in physics (or, more appropriately, psychological science) for dowsing. With all the numerous scams out there, I think it is imperative for RealScience to aggressively investigate questionable claims, and provide solid evidence to refute those claims. It's the only way to counter the woo-woos and frauds, and give the public up-to-date information.

Unfortunately, there are no incentives for doing research on dowsing today, in part because science has already investigated it from the mid-1700's, and explained it since the mid-1800's. The USGS put out an excellent booklet on dowsing in 1917, and I have it right here (http://geotech.thunting.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=info/usgs/index.dat) on Geotech. But research on dowsing needs to be refreshed every so often, or dowsers will start to claim that science ignores their abilities.

- Carl

[ivconic]

;)
"..I don't believe in dowsing either. As I've said before, it's all a trick of the mind.."
I do not beleive in dowsing either! I tried so many times to play with "it" and no results!
Many people do beleive....wasting time dowsing arround...dont know what to think?!?
"..The same goes for other so-called psychic phenomemon...."
Those "phenomnoms" are not properly investigated by science yet, that's why they exist and
are present still....
But it is very "tricky" area.....Sooner or later someone will face much bigger question:
"Does God exist?"
I do not want to start anything here....But as a sceptic i can only say:
I never saw any evidence of His existence yet,also...
I was born as ortodox, i am still ortodox and i'll die as ortodox. I do respect my and
other religions....but! I am respecting those as part of folklore,custom....It is nice
when go to church,meet other people,talk about good things in life, remind yourself on
universal merits of this life.......Help and been helped by other people arround....
That is my only religion....
Otherwise i do not beleive in God outside of us....
I think that is the main reason why official science does not want to go deeper in some
serious investigations of some "tricky" things....cose there is a risk to be acused
by "beleivers" one day as a infidel or something even worse..
We all do not live under same conditions. Those who are living in modern society,they
can "play" with this subject easy, oposite to those who are living in some illiberal,
underdeveloped,provincial society....
Besides there are a lot of more things to be investigated and discovered by science,so
no one does not really need to "push" some plight,unsuited things in front....
Does dowsing and lrl can "touch" this area...i am not sure! But some people such easy
connect those,find some "analogy" and "connections"....

"..My experience has been that people who claim they can dowse, or claim to have an LRL
that Really Works, completely and utterly fail when I am watching...."
Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha!!! This is so true! The same as my experience! I've been asking many dowsers
so far, to show me exact their abilities on the field.....AND ALWAYS FAILS WHEN I AM
WATCHING TOO!?! Why?
Maybe i am unfortunate for them? Maybe my presence handicaps their work?

"..I think it is imperative for RealScience to aggressively investigate questionable claims,
and provide solid evidence to refute those claims..."
You do not have idea Carl, how much i do agree with this! That is my only reason to be here
on Remote sensing, to read all posts and to post something from time to time....
It is time to clear up those things for good! I am not scientist but as enthusiast i am very
interested to learn and know real truth.
"..Unfortunately, there are no incentives for doing research on dowsing today..."
I think this is because science already gave up of those.It showed as a waste of time.

"...But research on dowsing needs to be refreshed every so often, or dowsers will start
to claim that science ignores their abilities..."
Yes,it will do some good, to remind people not to waste time and energy on bogus,pseudo science...
Money also....!



:rolleyes:

[michael]

Ivconic I understand what you say and your purposes, but do you accept in this world are so many things that there is no description or standpoint about them? e.g. jinn or UFO. (if don't say again some things like as blah blah blah,...) of course here is not place of these subjects, but I have a purpose.
please don't laugh at me. yes or no?

[ivconic]

Of course. I do have splited feelings about many things i can not explain...
But this Remote sensing subject must be tied to science and electronic if need to be accepted as reallity...
Like i said i havent seen everything in my life yet...

[michael]

Although I had no decision to continue for Zahori 3 antenna(Esteban first plan) and as I had before prepared all of the ingredients ( from box to PCB and electrical components) for both plans (Esteban and Ivconic) and gave all to my EE friend, he called me and said" don't you want the 2nd device? I have fulfilled 3 antenna come and take it" and despite of my reluctance, I got it.
I thought it may be useful for you know this information;
3 antenna is about 10 times less sensitive than 1 antenna for E fields.
and can say Ivconic plan is another thing (at least for E fields).
my friend send to Ivconic his greetings for his good alterations.
I don't know what can tell about treasure finding, maybe in this affair they act reversely.
anyway after receiving FG80 we will take all of them to our remote fields
and give a comparison, especially for the huge stone that had a suspicious signal with 1 antenna.

[kafamiyi]

zahori to regülate how know to say

[miqui]

Although I had no decision to continue for Zahori 3 antenna(Esteban first plan) and as I had before prepared all of the ingredients ( from box to PCB and electrical components) for both plans (Esteban and Ivconic) and gave all to my EE friend, he called me and said" don't you want the 2nd device? I have fulfilled 3 antenna come and take it" and despite of my reluctance, I got it.
I thought it may be useful for you know this information;
3 antenna is about 10 times less sensitive than 1 antenna for E fields.
and can say Ivconic plan is another thing (at least for E fields).
my friend send to Ivconic his greetings for his good alterations.
I don't know what can tell about treasure finding, maybe in this affair they act reversely.
anyway after receiving FG80 we will take all of them to our remote fields
and give a comparison, especially for the huge stone that had a suspicious signal with 1 antenna.

Hi michael,
please may you send me the *pcb file to my e-mail miquijacobo@hotmail.com, please!!
it will be helpfull.
thankyou very much for your help,

miqui

[mrezaee31]

Hi michael
you can help by experiments to me for made ZAHORI 3 antenna ,please.
mrezaee31@yahoo.com
thanks.
+++mrf+++

[Morgan]

Hi michael,
please may you send me the *pcb file to my e-mail miquijacobo@hotmail.com, please!!
it will be helpfull.
thankyou very much for your help,

miqui
Energy field detector circuit;)
And if someone interested in ionic Chamber(with gold sample) to adapt to Mini Zahory or the Zahoryic,just ask me
;)8261
8262

[Morgan]

Energy field detector circuit;)
And if someone interested in ionic Chamber(with gold sample) to adapt to Mini Zahory or the Zahoryic,just ask me
;)8261
8262
Hope this schematics not TOP SECRET ...:oh:

[Esteban]

Morgan... Morgan... be a good boy!!! :)

[Morgan]

Morgan... Morgan... be a good boy!!! :)
OK,only the IONIC CHAMBERS for Zahory is TOP SECRET...:D

[Fred]

There is alway something top secret so failure in making it to work can be explained or to avoid conception proofs :(

[nelson]

Esteban por que tanto misterio en esto de los detectores a larga distancia. Sobre todo si estamos todos unidos en un mismo fin, que es experimentar y armar nuestros propios equipos de detección.
Con todo respeto, yo preferirÃ*a que no se hablara mas del tema aquÃ* en el foro, ya que nos dejan con sabores amargos al hacernos construir cosas que nunca funcionan, especialmente cuando les falta una parte importante del circuito.
Personalmente no armo detectores para vender, si no que solo lo hago por hobbie, ya que me encanta buscar entierros y esas cosas. Entonces cuando nos ilucionan con un proyecto (zahorie) y luego se filtra que ese equipo nunca funcionará si no tiene tal o cual cosa. He solicitado al igual que muchos, nos faciliten diagramas para tambien poder experimentar, pero al fin y al cabo, nada de eso ocurre.
Estimado esteban, espero comprendas mi punto de vista, ya que también recibi un mensaje de Morgan, donde me dice que para entrar en esto, primero debo pedir a Carl que me proponga para un foro privado de LRL. La verdad es que no entiendo nada, en especial cuando el mismo
Carl no cree en estas cosas y ahora según entiendo debo pedir a el para que me voten en un foro privado si puedo o no participar en el.
Atte.
Nelson


Morgan... Morgan... be a good boy!!! :)

[Fred]

Nelson,
No te preocupes, hiciemos este foro privado donde teoricamente se podria divulgar todos los detalles de los LRL, pero no se enseño ni se aprendio más do que aqui.
Quisas el truco es no saber como hacerlo funcionar...

[Morgan]

Nelson,
No te preocupes, hiciemos este foro privado donde teoricamente se podria divulgar todos los detalles de los LRL, pero no se enseño ni se aprendio más do que aqui.
Quisas el truco es no saber como hacerlo funcionar...
Olá Fred

Não é bem assim... Os mais esforçados conseguiram resultados,mas os menos crentes em LRL abandonaram o projeto,e preferem umilhar os que dizem ter concluido com exito.

[Fred]

Olá Fred

Não é bem assim... Os mais esforçados conseguiram resultados,mas os menos crentes em LRL abandonaram o projeto,e preferem umilhar os que dizem ter concluido com exito.
Ola Morgan,
Eu pessoalmente não estou a criticar ninguém, simplesmente a explicar que ninguém ensinou com clareza como construir o aparelho, que o forum privado não ajudou nisso e que quando alguem tem duvidas tecnicas aparecem "moderadores" inesperados.
Nunca disse que duvido daqueles que dizem ter exito, nem do facto de poder (ou não) haver um fenomeno desconhecido, mas sim e desde o principio do meu desagrado por este pseudo-secretismo pseudo-privado. :)

[detectoman]

the problem are all the negociantes what take easy for they for lucrar whit efforce of others
the lrls is one group of people of hope, humbdle and simple, exist people whitout scurpules, people only go to money
so in not easy we like to give to public our most grear treasures
but who experiment have the exit for own efforces
thanks to morgan and esteban

[Geo]

the problem are all the negociantes what take easy for they for lucrar whit efforce of others
the lrls is one group of people of hope, humbdle and simple, exist people whitout scurpules, people only go to money
so in not easy we like to give to public our most grear treasures
but who experiment have the exit for own efforces
thanks to morgan and esteban


Hi detectionman
OK you thanks Morgan and Esteban, but what about all us???
I can't understand any other languange!!!! No spain, no France no portogale ....
so please can you reply in English????
Thank you
regards :)

[Fred]

Hi detectionman
OK you thanks Morgan and Esteban, but what about all us???
I can't understand any other languange!!!! No spain, no France no portogale ....
so please can you reply in English????
Thank you
regards :)
Personally i was just saying that i was not calling anyone liar just that the private forum didn´t help anyone with real info to make a good LRL, and that i was tired of the "secret ingredient" excuse.
It was a private forum , so the excuse of "comercial spies" doesn´t hold.

[Esteban]

Hi Nelson

I know you since many years. No problem for to be part of RS forum.

No falta ningún circuito, sino disposición especial en la antena.

Regards

Esteban


Esteban por que tanto misterio en esto de los detectores a larga distancia. Sobre todo si estamos todos unidos en un mismo fin, que es experimentar y armar nuestros propios equipos de detección.
Con todo respeto, yo preferirÃ*a que no se hablara mas del tema aquÃ* en el foro, ya que nos dejan con sabores amargos al hacernos construir cosas que nunca funcionan, especialmente cuando les falta una parte importante del circuito.
Personalmente no armo detectores para vender, si no que solo lo hago por hobbie, ya que me encanta buscar entierros y esas cosas. Entonces cuando nos ilucionan con un proyecto (zahorie) y luego se filtra que ese equipo nunca funcionará si no tiene tal o cual cosa. He solicitado al igual que muchos, nos faciliten diagramas para tambien poder experimentar, pero al fin y al cabo, nada de eso ocurre.
Estimado esteban, espero comprendas mi punto de vista, ya que también recibi un mensaje de Morgan, donde me dice que para entrar en esto, primero debo pedir a Carl que me proponga para un foro privado de LRL. La verdad es que no entiendo nada, en especial cuando el mismo
Carl no cree en estas cosas y ahora según entiendo debo pedir a el para que me voten en un foro privado si puedo o no participar en el.
Atte.
Nelson

[Esteban]

No need extra amplificative circuit. But yes, no contact via "normal" cap. between antenna and pin 3 because if you connect the capacitor you catch all type of interferences. This example can be a good point for to understand why direct contact is bad. Here there are maybe only 1 pf. And for to understand that you must ellaborate your own sensors.

Zahori works, no a fake, and as I repeat 1,000 times, no needs the switch and other potentiometers wich causes confussion, only one control, can be the 10 K pot. or the volume 22 K in original schematic. No connection pin 9 of 4066 to ground

Also we assure the detection via magnetic loop + Zahori = 2 detectors. Because Zahori is for electric portion.

Also I post image of isolation of three antennas via fiberglass pieces.

But you follow other way... hear other bell...

[nelson]

Thanks Esteban for your information and i hope you understand my point of view, cause i really have a big respect for all friends here on the forum, that everyday teach me about my hobbie and how detectors works. Long Range detectors really fascinate me, but with my poor electronics knowlegment is very litle of what i can do. bout antenas, may be i can help much more than with the circuit, cause i own a hamradio licence since 1982.
Has a ham, i use to design and experiment with antennas, so if i contribute with the antenna , don´t hesitate to write me.
Regards
Nelson


Hi Nelson

I know you since many years. No problem for to be part of RS forum.

No falta ningún circuito, sino disposición especial en la antena.

Regards

Esteban

[ivconic]

No need extra amplificative circuit. But yes, no contact via "normal" cap. between antenna and pin 3 because if you connect the capacitor you catch all type of interferences. This example can be a good point for to understand why direct contact is bad. Here there are maybe only 1 pf. And for to understand that you must ellaborate your own sensors.

Zahori works, no a fake, and as I repeat 1,000 times, no needs the switch and other potentiometers wich causes confussion, only one control, can be the 10 K pot. or the volume 22 K in original schematic. No connection pin 9 of 4066 to ground

Also we assure the detection via magnetic loop + Zahori = 2 detectors. Because Zahori is for electric portion.

Also I post image of isolation of three antennas via fiberglass pieces.

But you follow other way... hear other bell...

Esteban, the way you described it - it is still capacitive coupling. So, maybe replacing 20pF with some smaller capacitance will do the job also?
Regards

[Fred]

Esteban, the way you described it - it is still capacitive coupling. So, maybe replacing 20pF with some smaller capacitance will do the job also?
Regards
Or better yet, this adjutsable caps :

[Max]

Esteban, the way you described it - it is still capacitive coupling. So, maybe replacing 20pF with some smaller capacitance will do the job also?
Regards

Hi Ivconic,
yes I noticed that too. 1pF still capacitive.

But I think Esteban talk of something different maybe (hope he will answer about) like that capacitor must be small in value and not "common".

Where for not common he could maybe mean that must have some special feature like e.g. ultrastable capacitance...

Do you remember old vacuum variable capacitors found in old military radio equipment ? Some can go at around 1pF values and stay VERY stable cause temperature and other external variations have very little impact on params.

Also, I think he mean special cap required must have hi-voltage rating, but that are all my assumptions based on what he reported about the ca3130 burnt by a treasure "energy field" detection.

Esteban , what about that stuff ? It's a special cap , isn't it ? ;)

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Can be this kind of coupling, but you can find others. Not sure the capacitance here, but is a kind of filter too. Maybe Zahori needs other filter for to reject 50/60 Hz AC frequency.

[Esteban]

Pistol. Antenna isolated of the wood by piece of fiberglass PCB.

[Esteban]

Similar, isolated by gum.

[Max]

Similar, isolated by gum.

Hi Esteban,
I see... so it's fiberglass or gum (I think you maybe mean "rubber") that it's there as non-conductive medium, cause maybe there are electrostatic considerations like small charge flow must be prevented in such devices and some materials are not so good for that.

For example, fiberglass used in pcb (epoxy and fiberglass actually) is good about such stuff cause both glass and epoxy are excelent materials.

Sure, fiberglass can be electrized but unless you rub that stuff with e.g. some tissue/silk it wouldn't happen easy.

The wood, instead, have very small leakage currents that could possibly give wrong signals to such sensitive "electrometer", cause zahori, indeed IS an electrometer.

So, it's like in gold leafs electrometer the glass acts as insulant there and leafs are just connected to the rod and far away other conductive mediums.

Now, the problem is: if the zahori is just an electrometer (and indeed it is) how can it show the presence of a target ???

We must face the "fact" we need an electric field around a target to explain why the zahori could work as lrl for real.

So, is there any electric field ?????? :rolleyes:

Very confusing... I don't understand why the target must show, inside soil, a different potential than soil around ! ;)

What do you think about ?

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Hi Esteban,
I see... so it's fiberglass or gum (I think you maybe mean "rubber") that it's there as non-conductive medium, cause maybe there are electrostatic considerations like small charge flow must be prevented in such devices and some materials are not so good for that.

For example, fiberglass used in pcb (epoxy and fiberglass actually) is good about such stuff cause both glass and epoxy are excelent materials.

Sure, fiberglass can be electrized but unless you rub that stuff with e.g. some tissue/silk it wouldn't happen easy.

The wood, instead, have very small leakage currents that could possibly give wrong signals to such sensitive "electrometer", cause zahori, indeed IS an electrometer.

So, it's like in gold leafs electrometer the glass acts as insulant there and leafs are just connected to the rod and far away other conductive mediums.

Now, the problem is: if the zahori is just an electrometer (and indeed it is) how can it show the presence of a target ???

We must face the "fact" we need an electric field around a target to explain why the zahori could work as lrl for real.

So, is there any electric field ?????? :rolleyes:

Very confusing... I don't understand why the target must show, inside soil, a different potential than soil around ! ;)

What do you think about ?

Kind regards,
Max

Hi Max,

Of course, the theme is the electric field around targets buried for long time.

The fiberglass PCB, I think, is a good isolator, better than common PCB. Fugue of small current in common PCB is not good. You can barnished the isolator PCB pieces used for antennas and the wood. Maybe Zahori is good in metal box, but don't know.

Regards

Esteban

[Fred]

Hi Max,

Of course, the theme is the electric field around targets buried for long time.

The fiberglass PCB, I think, is a good isolator, better than common PCB. Fugue of small current in common PCB is not good. You can barnished the isolator PCB pieces used for antennas and the wood. Maybe Zahori is good in metal box, but don't know.

Regards

Esteban

Glass is usally excellent, you could use a broken lamp, or ceramic isolator for antennas...but maybe PCB is good enought.

[hung]

Ola Morgan,
Eu pessoalmente não estou a criticar ninguém, simplesmente a explicar que ninguém ensinou com clareza como construir o aparelho, que o forum privado não ajudou nisso e que quando alguem tem duvidas tecnicas aparecem "moderadores" inesperados.
Nunca disse que duvido daqueles que dizem ter exito, nem do facto de poder (ou não) haver um fenomeno desconhecido, mas sim e desde o principio do meu desagrado por este pseudo-secretismo pseudo-privado. :)

Fred é Português! :shocked:

[Esteban]

Glass is usally excellent, you could use a broken lamp, or ceramic isolator for antennas...but maybe PCB is good enought.

I think in it (and ellaborate) years ago. I cut a glass used for drink and put a fiber glass PCB recycled (round) for to sustain antenna. :lol:

[Fred]

Fred é Português! :shocked:

Será que sou? :razz:
Il faut se mefier des apparences, mon cher Hung, c´est une possibilité mais ce n´est pas nécessairement vrai.
Le fait que l´on puisse s´exprimer en differentes langues ne prouve rien.
Il est un fait indeniable, c´est q´avec vous c´est un plaisir de brouiller les pistes :lol:
J´espere en tous cas, en faisant cela, ne pas participer la confusion aparente qui reigne dans votre esprit sur tout ce qui touche a la technique...

[Esteban]

Fred é Português! :shocked:

Portuguese language from Madeira? Macao? Berlenga Grande? Porto Santo? Santo Tomé y PrÃ*ncipe? Timor Oriental? Cabo Verde? :lol:

[Fred]

Portuguese language from Madeira? Macao? Berlenga Grande? Porto Santo? Santo Tomé y PrÃ*ncipe? Timor Oriental? Cabo Verde? :lol:
Brazil ?:lol::lol:

[Esteban]

Brazil ?:lol::lol:

Island of Brazil? Island of Mozambique? :lol:

[Morgan]

Será que sou? :razz:
Il faut se mefier des apparences, mon cher Hung, c´est une possibilité mais ce n´est pas nécessairement vrai.
Le fait que l´on puisse s´exprimer en differentes langues ne prouve rien.
Il est un fait indeniable, c´est q´avec vous c´est un plaisir de brouiller les pistes :lol:
J´espere en tous cas, en faisant cela, ne pas participer la confusion aparente qui reigne dans votre esprit sur tout ce qui touche a la technique...
Oui , c ´est vrai, parler en differentes langues ne prouve rien..
Et moi,je suis portugais ? ;)

Of course,ja,oui,yes,da,si,simmmmmmmmmmm :razz:

[Morgan]

Portuguese language from Madeira? Macao? Berlenga Grande? Porto Santo? Santo Tomé y PrÃ*ncipe? Timor Oriental? Cabo Verde? :lol:
Joga no LOTO,que com essa pontaria vais ganhar !!! :shocked:

[Fred]

Joga no LOTO,que com essa pontaria vais ganhar !!! :shocked:

jejejejeje :lol::lol:

[detectoman]

whattttttttttttttttttttttttt

[Geo]

whattttttttttttttttttttttttt

Maybe Zahori at few languages...:lol::lol:

[epitopios]

Mr Esteban , i make the Zahori , now what do i expect from this
something GOOD ???? :D or something baddddd :angry:

http://www.imageshack.gr/files/7r0962q64le7m796935p_thumb.jpg (http://www.imageshack.gr/view.php?file=7r0962q64le7m796935p.jpg)


friendly epitopios

(http://www.imageshack.gr/view.php?file=7r0962q64le7m796935p.jpg)

[epitopios]

Can be this kind of coupling, but you can find others. Not sure the capacitance here, but is a kind of filter too. Maybe Zahori needs other filter for to reject 50/60 Hz AC frequency.

does it help ???
http://www.imageshack.gr/files/he0xy7852b2r727ezujj_thumb.jpg (http://www.imageshack.gr/view.php?file=he0xy7852b2r727ezujj.jpg)

friendly epitopios

[Esteban]

Your choice is to made complicate version with much controls. I explain that your unique control must be 10 K pot. 2M2, put fix. 22 K put fix. switch for select frequency don't use. Fix capacitor can be 6n8-8n2. Pin 9 is free.

[Max]

Your choice is to made complicate version with much controls. I explain that your unique control must be 10 K pot. 2M2, put fix. 22 K put fix. switch for select frequency don't use. Fix capacitor can be 6n8-8n2. Pin 9 is free.

So he made it...and made it wrong , uh ?:lol:

Good!

Everything you made is wrong for LRLs experts! :razz:

Why don't you post that schematic you say... without all this pathetic table-tennis of posts you made !?

Oh, sure... LRL-experts knows best ... how to made endless sequence of unuseful posts! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max

[epitopios]

Esteban wrote:
Your choice is to made complicate version with much controls. I explain that your unique control must be 10 K pot. 2M2, put fix. 22 K put fix. switch for select frequency don't use. Fix capacitor can be 6n8-8n2. Pin 9 is free.




So he made it...and made it wrong , uh ?:lol:

Good!

Everything you made is wrong for LRLs experts! :razz:

Why don't you post that schematic you say... without all this pathetic table-tennis of posts you made !?

Oh, sure... LRL-experts knows best ... how to made endless sequence of unuseful posts! :lol:

Kind regards,
Max
hi and I thank you both Esteban and Max for your respond
I put the shematic i make

http://www.imageshack.gr/files/w7w278yn66obpjlv26e4_thumb.gif (http://www.imageshack.gr/view.php?file=w7w278yn66obpjlv26e4.gif)
can you show me the corrections
friendly epitopios

[mmlove2007]

hi

i nedd a pcb & part list zahori

hank

[Max]

hi

i nedd a pcb & part list zahori

hank

And a beer also ? ;)

I think you have to ask our LRLs genius here... master of puppets.... I mean someone whose name start with "E". :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[ma330]

HI TO ALL

I WANT BUILT ZAHORI YOUR OPINION ABOUT THIS CIRCUIT.???
THIS CIRCIT IS A NICE LRL AND GOOD WORKING????
I BUILT THIS CIRCUIT INTO Proteus 7.4 BUT THIS CIRCUIT NOT ANSWER TO ME
I VERY INTERESTING THAT BUILD ZAHORI.PLEASE GUID ME ABOUT ZAHORI .
I ATTECH AND SEND FOR YOU CIRCUIT FROM ZAHORI THAT BUILT IN Proteus 7.4 BUT NOT WORK.
PLEASE SEE YOU AND TELL ME MY PROBLEMS.

ZAHORI ATTECH FOR DOWNLOAD (http://uplud.co.cc/17/1314190695.rar)
TANK YOU DEAR .
WAIT FOR YOU AND YOUR GUID.:)

[ivconic]

Here is workable pcb.
I dont have that Proteus so i can not see what have you done,
Cheers!

[ivconic]

Printable files...

[ma330]

Here is workable pcb.
I dont have that Proteus so i can not see what have you done,
Cheers!

tank you ivconic dear.
i have many question.
zahori is a nice LRL and good working????
you built this lrl ???you can give me resulte examin whit lrl ????
you can afew guide about this circuit???depth detect.....????

[Max]

tank you ivconic dear.
i have many question.
zahori is a nice LRL and good working????
you built this lrl ???you can give me resulte examin whit lrl ????
you can afew guide about this circuit???depth detect.....????

What you expect... it doesn't work for detecting buried metals...

other stuff yes...

storms, ctr electrization, switching supply, sparks, rf noise ...a cat brushing hairs to some furniture... :lol:

whatever but metallic buried stuff!:rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

[ivconic]

What you expect... it doesn't work for detecting buried metals...

other stuff yes...

storms, ctr electrization, switching supply, sparks, rf noise ...a cat brushing hairs to some furniture... :lol:

whatever but metallic buried stuff!:rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Max

TRUE!
:lol:

[Esteban]

TRUE!
:lol:

Not this, you need an only control. Soon... :rolleyes:

[ivconic]

Not this, you need an only control. Soon... :rolleyes:

I'll be damn if i understand that? What are you saying???

[Fred]

I think it is one more secret tuning device, not on schematic of course :razz:
Like small coils with sample inside :rolleyes:

[Max]

I'll be damn if i understand that? What are you saying???

Hi,
he wrote time ago that the zahori schematicposted is too complicate at regulations and just a single pot must be left for adjusting... so other stuff is fixed.

But never explained well which are required settings for zahori to work as LRL for metals...

He promised schematic+details... but I never seen on the screen...

I simply think it's just a way to trick people more on zahori... cause to me device, as I wrote above, detects a number of things but not metallic buried stuff and not water flows underground.

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

I'll be damn if i understand that? What are you saying???

The only control you needed is the 10 K. The others are fixed. 2M2. 22K. No switch, fixed capacitor for to obtain near 90 Hz. No pin 9 to ground. And I advice maybe Zahori like only + - 3-4 volts. Because with many controls you'll obtain only complications. I have finished this PCB but no time for to put in box, because many projects are waiting... But soon I expect...

[ivconic]

Oh that! I see.
Ok, i can agree with you that Zahori has to many controls. I made ..maybe 5-6 Zahori's so far and in process of making and playing with it i noticed some commands are more than sufficient. Turning pots and switching switches i could find a very sensitive spot. Those than could be fixed and device left in that adjustment for good. It is very sensitive. But as Max says; it is good only to detect charges and AC current flows - not metal. It is splendid device for locating live wires in walls etc.. Excellent tool for electricians.
Metal detecting - no, i never succeed to detect anything simillar with it.
As a deep pipe locator and tracer Zahori also could be used but pipe than must be connected to some AC source, most probably to some pulse generator...
I took Zahori few times with me visiting some real terrains and tested it in conjuction with conventional metal detector - no results, none. Zahori is absolutelly calm and silent outdoor in wildness, far away from any artifical signal, charges, industrial hums, power lines and simillar...
So....no results at all.

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Ivconic

you have to detect no metal but the "alo" near a buried metal, I think that this is an electric phenomenon and then Zahori can detect it. But as Esteban says it's better to use also an alternate magnetic field that acts as an antenna. With my modified Zahori I have obtained some beeps in a spot but without a confirmation after few minutes, as the phenomenon it was disappeared.

Best Regards

[Max]

Hi Ivconic

you have to detect no metal but the "alo" near a buried metal, I think that this is an electric phenomenon and then Zahori can detect it. But as Esteban says it's better to use also an alternate magnetic field that acts as an antenna. With my modified Zahori I have obtained some beeps in a spot but without a confirmation after few minutes, as the phenomenon it was disappeared.

Best Regards

random noise...

[Esteban]

I assure this work, but sensibility control must be in delicate point, but no random. You must analize why in X area beeps and in other not. Yo go in the area and beep yet... so there are differences caused by buried metal.

[Theseus]

I assure this work, but sensibility control must be in delicate point, but no random. You must analize why in X area beeps and in other not. Yo go in the area and beep yet... so there are differences caused by buried metal.

Sensitivity control set on the edge to cause random periodic beeps. Beeps in one area, no metal.... beeps in another area, maybe metal... beeps in still another area with metal.

Where is the consistency?

Subjective Beeps!


subjective - Subjectivity refers to a person's perspective or opinion, particular feelings, beliefs, and desires. It is often used casually to refer to unsubstantiated personal opinions, in contrast to knowledge and fact-based beliefs.

[Esteban]

Sensitivity control set on the edge to cause random periodic beeps. Beeps in one area, no metal.... beeps in another area, maybe metal... beeps in still another area with metal.

Where is the consistency?

Subjective Beeps!


subjective - Subjectivity refers to a person's perspective or opinion, particular feelings, beliefs, and desires. It is often used casually to refer to unsubstantiated personal opinions, in contrast to knowledge and fact-based beliefs.

Subjective beeps found 1 big gold chain at 1 meter depth, 30 meters in distance. A gold woman-comb XVIII century and other many things. Near a rail of train a bottle with many coins... :lol:

[Theseus]

Subjective beeps found 1 big gold chain at 1 meter depth, 30 meters in distance. A gold woman-comb XVIII century and other many things. Near a rail of train a bottle with many coins... :lol:

Yup.... <beep> <beep> and I just <beep> found the <beep> <beep> Titanic buried in my back yard! Whaddya know! <beep> <beep> :lol: :lol: :lol:
:razz:

[Esteban]

And maybe is possible to design a "Zahori-Ã*-la-coil"... :shocked:

[detectoman]

guagggggggggggg
And maybe is possible to design a "Zahori-Ã*-la-coil"... :shocked:
to the coil? whit you esteban all is possible, too one zahori to the lazer wawwwwwwww

[detectoman]

the pupil esteban rebasa to the teacher alonso wawwwwwwww
estaban what doing my cunado alonso?

[Max]

guagggggggggggg
And maybe is possible to design a "Zahori-Ã*-la-coil"... :shocked:
to the coil? whit you esteban all is possible, too one zahori to the lazer wawwwwwwww

lazer ???

Hmmm...

Zahori already proved detects just static charges... and electrical noise... now if he adds the laser.... :lol:

Will detect also clubs at night... :cool:

Kind regards,
Max

[Atul Asthana]

Check this out
http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/emotor/chargdet.html (http://www.eskimo.com/%7Ebillb/emotor/chargdet.html)

[FrancoItaly]

Hi All
this article is very useful in order to explain the long range detection (perhaps): if over long time buried targets it there is a remarkable E-Field (Esteban says that it can to destroy a transistor or a IC) then it's possible to sense this E field at least 5 or 10 meters away.

Best Regards

[WM6]

Hi All
this article is very useful in order to explain the long range detection (perhaps): if over long time buried targets it there is a remarkable E-Field (Esteban says that it can to destroy a transistor or a IC) then it's possible to sense this E field at least 5 or 10 meters away.

Best Regards

It is environmental (LRL hunters synthetic cloths inclusive) static charge that destroy (FET) transistor or IC, not target static charge which is non existent.

[Max]

usually stoned LRL-users used to use user-friendly used rods... :lol:

[GOLDENSKULL]

Hi all,

can we detect treasure under ground by E-Field detector that explain in
this address: http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/emotor/chargdet.html (http://www.eskimo.com/%7Ebillb/emotor/chargdet.html)

??? :D

[Theseus]

Hi all,

can we detect treasure under ground by E-Field detector that explain in
this address: http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/emotor/chargdet.html (http://www.eskimo.com/%7Ebillb/emotor/chargdet.html)

??? :D

IF buried treasure actually produced a charge, over and above random ambient charges, then perhaps it would work to discover the location. ;)

[jack]

Hi Esteban, and other friends

Esteban please make me zahori coil coupling for help. This coil is made in what form?

Esteban zahori you can trace metals in the basement does?

With respect

[Esteban]

Hi Esteban, and other friends

Esteban please make me zahori coil coupling for help. This coil is made in what form?

Esteban zahori you can trace metals in the basement does?

With respect

Later, I have some problem in eye. Slow recovery!

[ANDREAS]

Later, I have some problem in eye. Slow recovery!
Well come Esteban. Nice to see you here
regards

[WM6]

Hi Esteban,

I hope you get good vision sun.

Best wishes and best regards

[detectoman]

querido amigo esteban, yo espero pronto se cure de ese ojo
podria decirnos de que se trata? quizas yo pueda ayudarle y darle algun remedio, pero si es infeccion, le sugiero se ponga limonada ( agua con limon en baja concentracion ) tenga cuidado con los antibioticos muy fuertes
si es una infeccion muy fuerte, ajo diluhido con agua, ( muy baja concentracion )
dinos de que se trata, un abrazo

[Geo]

Later, I have some problem in eye. Slow recovery!

I wish you fast recovery

Regards:)

[Seden]

Esteban,

I hope you get well soon!

Randy

[aft_72005]

Later, I have some problem in eye. Slow recovery!

Hi Esteban
I wish come back your health soon
Best regards.

[FrancoItaly]

Esteban
I'm with you and I wish you the best.
Best Regards

[Esteban]

Hi Friends! :)

Thanks very much to ALL YOU! Hope rapid return!

Best regards,

Esteban

[gibon]

Best souvenir for one of the best member here on this forum.

Sincerly

[Esteban]

Best souvenir for one of the best member here on this forum.

Sincerly

Thanks very much! I expect rapid return!

Regards,

Esteban

[Esteban]

Hi Esteban, and other friends

Esteban please make me zahori coil coupling for help. This coil is made in what form?

Esteban zahori you can trace metals in the basement does?

With respect

This is other coupling capacitor plate (inside ceramic) and spiral coil. One lead of capacitor is connected to ground for control interference. The other to CA3130.

[luciano furtado]

This is other coupling capacitor plate (inside ceramic) and spiral coil. One lead of capacitor is connected to ground for control interference. The other to CA3130.

Hello good friend who tells me again that a thing can use the IC CA 3140 in place of the CA3130 IC???
Thank you appreciate their improvements.

[Funfinder]

Using the CA3140 instead of CA3140 should be no problem, maybe it is a bit less sensitive.

[mesy64]

hi dear esteban
I wish you fast recovery
best wish

[Esteban]

Using the CA3140 instead of CA3140 should be no problem, maybe it is a bit less sensitive.

I think can be replaced by 3140 or TL071 or TL081. Also can be redesigned for dual op amps based in TL082. This dual op amp is equal to 2 op amps. So, you need an only chip.

[Esteban]

hi dear esteban
I wish you fast recovery
best wish

Thanks very much!

[luciano furtado]

Thanks very much!
ok

[luciano furtado]

ok

I did the tests with the TL082 more'm using IC LM 1458j which proved to be far more sensible and better performance ok.

[Morgan]

I did the tests with the TL082 more'm using IC LM 1458j which proved to be far more sensible and better performance ok.


Hello

Your LRL in picture seems made of plastic,better in wood becouse of statics...

[luciano furtado]

Hello

Your LRL in picture seems made of plastic,better in wood becouse of statics...

ok

[misko]

I did Ahora. I have a metal box. What ties up (GND) or (-) batteries, or anything.

[detectoman]

thanks esteban, but major rest an little most your eyes
y no confies demasiado en los alarmistas doctores, ellos ven gravedad en todo a causa de su inexperiencia la cual la mayoria de ellos padecen, y decretan operacion para algo que solo se curaba con descanso y tiempo, algo que solo se curaba por ejemplo con agua con limon, alguna infeccion que enrojezca el ojo entero, cuidado con los doctores, los ojos son nuestro mas preciado don un abrazo

[Geo]

thanks esteban, but major rest an little most your eyes
y no confies demasiado en los alarmistas doctores, ellos ven gravedad en todo a causa de su inexperiencia la cual la mayoria de ellos padecen, y decretan operacion para algo que solo se curaba con descanso y tiempo, algo que solo se curaba por ejemplo con agua con limon, alguna infeccion que enrojezca el ojo entero, cuidado con los doctores, los ojos son nuestro mas preciado don un abrazo

On what do you reply???
Or the admin removed something???

[detectoman]

geo, i think you have confused on other thread :)

[detectoman]

geo, today i see the problem may be deleted any things duplicate for esteban in other same thread

[Geo]

geo, today i see the problem may be deleted any things duplicate for esteban in other same thread

So, am i confused or No???
Really i ask:frown:

Regards

[Qiaozhi]

On what do you reply???
Or the admin removed something???
As far as I'm aware, nothing has been deleted from this thread.

[Fred]

So, am i confused or No???
Really i ask:frown:
Regards

Be careful Geo, this may be a sign of you addiction to LRL´s...see how other(s) here got really confused too ...

[Geo]

Be careful Geo, this may be a sign of you addiction to LRL´s...see how other(s) here got really confused too ...

OK, i will be careful ....:lol:

Regards

[Geo]

Check this site......
http://www.tanyerielektronik.com/detay.php?detay=92

[J_Player]

Check this site......
http://www.tanyerielektronik.com/detay.php?detay=92They have also been selling PCBs for the Hammerhead, White's Surf PI, Tesero Golden Sabre, Goldscan 4, Delta pulse and others...
http://www.tanyerielektronik.com/urunler.php?kat_id=49 (http://www.tanyerielektronik.com/urunler.php)
http://www.tanyerielektronik.com/detay.php?detay=124 :eek:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

They have also been selling PCBs for the Hammerhead, White's Surf PI, Tesero Golden Sabre, Goldscan 4, Delta pulse and others...
http://www.tanyerielektronik.com/urunler.php?kat_id=49 (http://www.tanyerielektronik.com/urunler.php)
http://www.tanyerielektronik.com/detay.php?detay=124 :eek:

Best wishes,
J_P


I saw it.

They are the construction team of Geotech1:lol::lol:.
They construct every "good" project from here....:lol:

Regards

[Morgan]

I saw it.

They are the construction team of Geotech1:lol::lol:.
They construct every "good" project from here....:lol:

Regards


Its very good if the kit prices are not expensive...

[Geo]

I know many persons from Greece who bought these kits of delta.
Prices are very good.
Also i saw that they sell the Hammerhead as Kit. I don't know if they have the permission of Carl or not:nono:

Regards:)

[Qiaozhi]

I know many persons from Greece who bought these kits of delta.
Prices are very good.
Also i saw that they sell the Hammerhead as Kit. I don't know if they have the permission of Carl or not:nono:

Regards:)
I don't suppose they have permission either from Whites for the Surfmaster PI, or from Tesoro for the Golden Sabre, or from Eric for the GoldScan 4, or from Elektor for the Zahori, or for the Delta Pulse, Sniffer XR 71, etc. :frown:

[Geo]

I don't suppose they have permission either from Whites for the Surfmaster PI, or from Tesoro for the Golden Sabre, or from Eric for the GoldScan 4, or from Elektor for the Zahori, or for the Delta Pulse, Sniffer XR 71, etc. :frown:


They have different laws:lol:

[Qiaozhi]

They have different laws:lol:
But they should not be able to sell these ripped-off designs outside their own country. Certainly not ship them to Europe or the rest of the world.

[Geo]

But they should not be able to sell these ripped-off designs outside their own country. Certainly not ship them to Europe or the rest of the world.

Hahaha.... maybe you did not read my post 238

[Geo]

I know many persons from Greece who bought these kits of delta.
Prices are very good.
Also i saw that they sell the Hammerhead as Kit. I don't know if they have the permission of Carl or not:nono:

Regards:)

Hi Qiaozhi.... read:)

[Qiaozhi]

Hi Qiaozhi.... read:)
I understand what you're saying, but I meant that it shouldn't be allowed to happen. :frown:

[WM6]

I understand what you're saying, but I meant that it shouldn't be allowed to happen. :frown:

Why not Qiaozhi? Is it free market or not? Or it is free only for big companies like ML which stolen others ideas and patent it for himself?

[Geo]

Why not Qiaozhi? Is it free market or not? Or it is free only for big companies like ML which stolen others ideas and patent it for himself?

For example????

[WM6]

For example????

Par example: His famous MPS patents has predecessor in different patents which "by coincidence" was not cited as prior art in MPS patents.

Even in (Qiaozhi domicile) UK patent application GB 2 004 069 A. But not in this only.

[Fred]

OR, the whole China ...to big and powerful to fear consequences of his numerous patents violations.
Of course this is not an excuse to do it.

[J_Player]

But they should not be able to sell these ripped-off designs outside their own country. Certainly not ship them to Europe or the rest of the world.But, but....

Why can't we buy no PD kits from http://www.tanyerielektronik.com ? :cry:

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

But, but....

Why can't we buy no PD kits from http://www.tanyerielektronik.com ? :cry:

Best wishes,
J_P

If the designers of these detectors (Mikron, Tesoro, Carl etc) have not problem, i have not any problem. For me it is better, if they gives cheap Kits to the People!!!

Regards:)