ionic metal detector

[shila]

Kindly im looking for some information about IONIC METAL DETECTOR.
Is it really true or something else?
Is it possible to use it as a tresure finder?

[hung]

www.mineoro.com (http://www.mineoro.com)

[Geo]

www.mineoro.com (http://www.mineoro.com/)

Attention
At remote sensing read Carl's opinion about mineoro. Very interesting.

Geo

[hung]

Well, that's HIS opinion...

I think however that Dell Winder's report in his site is much more productive.. Alhtough the humidity rate where he lives is high.

I am a Mineoro PDC 210 happy user. There's no magic and no 'out of the box' ready long range detector. It requires experience, practive and skills developed along the way. But it sure works.
Cheers.

[Carl-NC]

Regardless of whether the Mineoro works or not, or how it claims to work, here is the problem with "ionic detection".

Take a battery-operated smoke detector outside. It will serve as an ionic detector. Have a friend stand 25 meters away. While you hold the smoke detector, have him light a match. See if the smoke detector can detect the smoke given off by the match. Try it from 10 meters. 5 meters. 1 meter. Any luck?

Now have your friend hold a gold coin in the air, and see if the smoke detector can detect the smoke given off by the coin. Eh? Gold coins don't give off smoke? Neither do they produce ions.

That is why ionic detection can not work. IF the Mineoro detectors Really Work, they do not detect ions.

- Carl

[hung]

That is why ionic detection can not work. IF the Mineoro detectors Really Work, they do not detect ions.

- Carl

Yes. Ionic detection works and the Mineoro detectors do detect the gold ions.
All matter degrades with time and releases ions as they do.

Ions are modified atoms. When the atom loses electrons or gains electrons in this process of electron exchange, it is said to be IONIZED. For ionization to take place, there must be a transfer of energy which results in a change in the internal energy of the atom. Earth acts like this. An atom having more than its normal amount of electrons acquires a negative charge, and is called a NEGATIVE ION. The atom that gives up some of its normal electrons is left with less negative charges than positive charges and is called a POSITIVE ION.

The static electricity acts as a 'vehicle' transporting the ions in a elipse shape field and the detector captures the signal.

This explanation is for all the others who don't know how it works. You have been given enough info about it and still seem to not comprehend it.

I'm a one type of person who does not try to convince people of the truth.They think and act at their will.

[Unregistered]

hung
what is the polarity of the ions that release from the treasure; negative or positive?

[Esteban]

Negotiate the problem:

Maybe is very difficult to demonstrate the ionic detection. But I'm SURE the detection occurs via difference of micro or milivolts between the antenna and the long time buried conductive metal. This long time buried conductive metal affects the soil and changes his natural potential, but advise all you this:atmospheric presure and humidity causes influences. When atmospheric presure is more low, detection is better. My only problem is this: how I can do for to shield of high hot temperature here!!! This causes deviation in the semiconductor and can't adjust properly the microvoltmeter (not the same microvoltmeter on workbench than microvoltmeter outdoor). The only way I found (myself, I don't know if others discover the same) is encapsulate the semiconductor in oil. I make some experiments and is very effective as hot protection. Another important problem is the vecinity of electric power lines.

[Qiaozhi]

HOWTO Build Your Own Long Range Locator

The operating principle of LRLs is not immediately obvious if viewed from the perspective of accepted physics. First hand examination of these devices will reveal an apparently simplistic construction that obscures the complex subtlety of their design.

Two types are described here. The first is similar to the Ranger-Tell Examiner, and the other is an advanced electronic device that operates on the same underlying principle as the Mineoro detectors.

For example, the Ranger-Tell Examiner may appear at first sight to contain just a handful of components that seem loosely connected in some arbitrary fashion. This conclusion is far from the truth, as will be explained fully in the following analysis.

One of the most confusing aspects of the Examiner design is the enameled wire that protrudes through the case and terminates just below the calculator housing without any apparent connection. This type of connection can be explained by reference to the work carried out by Zaev, Avramenko and Lisin on displacement current. According to the authors – "The measurement of the polarisation current in matter can clean up the long-standing dispute about the nature of dielectric permeability of metals, and also make possible the transmission of energy along an isolated conductor without a galvanically closed current circuit. Nicholai Tesla demonstrated this on 1st February 1892 in London but the description of the method applied by him for such a transmission line has not been preserved."

A simple circuit (known as Avramenko’s fork) can be used to demonstrate this method of energy transmission.

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=411

Note that there is no connection between the load and a common terminal, such as ground. The load is quite simply isolated from ground, but it still receives power.

This type of circuit is not subject to Kirchoff’s current and voltage laws, and the output current measured in the load is not appreciatively affected by inserting a capacitor of 0.1uF in the line. This is the underlying principle of power derivation within the Examiner LRL, and the reason why the device needs no battery supply other than that provided by the calculator. Power to the circuit (a modified form of Avramenko’s fork) is provided directly by the calculator allowing precise tuning by the operator.

Although the original circuit contained two diodes, the version in the Examiner makes use of resonance techniques and longitudinal wave coupling to boost the energy to a level necessary for long range detection. The human component is also an essential part of the design. Just as a tuning fork (or in this case Avramenko’s fork) has natural frequencies for sound, the planet Earth has natural frequencies, called Schumann resonances, and the human brain has natural frequencies for electromagnetic radiation. It is known that that the Earth’s Schumann resonances are "in tune" with the human brain’s alpha and theta states. But since the Schumann resonance is very low, at about 7.5Hz, the frequencies programmed via the calculator must be down-converted and fine-tuned for effective long-range location to take place. In addition, the Schumann resonance can fluctuate by + or – 0.5Hz depending on the properties of the Earth’s electromagnetic cavity.

The natural frequencies of the human brain are:



Beta waves (14 to 30Hz)
Alpha waves (8 to 13Hz)
Theta waves (4 to 7 Hz)
Delta waves (1 to 3Hz)



This explains the inclusion of adjustable elements in the fork / down-converter circuit.

Although the underlying operating principle is complex and difficult to explain, the demonstrable success of these devices has been shown on a number of occasions. Unfortunately LRLs rarely work out-of-the-box, and may need to become acclimatised to their owner over a period of time. Perseverance is the key to successful hunting with an LRL.

Now – how to build your own:

Any battery powered calculator can theoretically be used as the high frequency programmable source. In fact, the simple cheap makes usually work best, as these all tend to use the same type of calculator chip.

Construct the primary "coil" for the down-converter that provides coupling between the calculator chip and the modified fork circuit. This element is not as critical as the LRL manufacturers would have you believe, and constructing this element according to the figure below will ensure success.

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=408

The primary serpentine "coil" is 22.5mm x 10mm, and requires a coil diameter of between 0.5 and 0.6mm.
The telescopic aerial is a standard part, as its purpose is to couple the human operator to the Earth’s Schumann resonance.
The modified fork circuit is identical to that shown below:

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=409
That’s it! Simple really. There is no critical alignment required, except for the connection between the primary "coil" and the calculator. It is important that the end of the wire should protrude through the case, and terminate just below the calculator chip. In most calculators this chip is located near to the center of the unit.


Advanced LRL Detector Based On The Ionic Detection Concept

This advanced version is electronically-based and uses the so-called ionic-electrostatic phenomenon to provide long range directional detection of metal objects.

The full circuit details are not provided here, as the unit is still under heavy development. However, the block diagram of this unit is shown below:

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=410

The IEP Biotronic System (codenamed Garreutto) consists of the following building blocks: Target Height Identification System, Identification Stabilizer, Amplifier, and Sample Chamber Amplifier Module.

A sample of the target metal must be placed in the substance chamber of the SCAM, where it undergoes a process of automatic calibration. The detector uses a physical phenomenon known as Ionic-Electrostatic B.S. to detect long-range targets. Although this unit is still experimental, it has been characterized as having a maximum range of 500m and depth of 50m, yet it only weighs 1kg including batteries.

More details to follow...

[shila]

Well, that's HIS opinion...

I think however that Dell Winder's report in his site is much more productive.. Alhtough the humidity rate where he lives is high.

I am a Mineoro PDC 210 happy user. There's no magic and no 'out of the box' ready long range detector. It requires experience, practive and skills developed along the way. But it sure works.
Cheers.

Dear Hung,

Pleade send me your e-mail
I will be thankful if you explain for me your experience about PDC210
Im going to buy this.
best regards
this is my e-mail star329sat@yahoo.com

[Geo]

Hi.I see that In this forum there are two groups of members or readers.Those who believe at LRL and the other who dont believe. I am in the middle but i would like to be in the first group. Carl gives a lot of money to anyone with LRL or Mineoro who will find gold at a place that will indicate this but no response.WHY? I never tried a LRL or Mineoro so does anyone can tell me about the sensitivity to a gold coin and to a gold box as a soda can (330 ml)? Hung says "I am a Mineoro PDC 210 happy user. There's no magic and no 'out of the box' ready long range detector. It requires experience, practive and skills developed along the way ". Mineoro is an electronic ionic detector, so why requiring experience and practice?

Does MineoroGreece who read this forum can give me a mineoro for test and if pass the test i will buy the detector and i will write at forum to close this subject?

Geo

[shila]

HOWTO Build Your Own Long Range Locator







The operating principle of LRLs is not immediately obvious if viewed from the perspective of accepted physics. First hand examination of these devices will reveal an apparently simplistic construction that obscures the complex subtlety of their design.

Two types are described here. The first is similar to the Ranger-Tell Examiner, and the other is an advanced electronic device that operates on the same underlying principle as the Mineoro detectors.

For example, the Ranger-Tell Examiner may appear at first sight to contain just a handful of components that seem loosely connected in some arbitrary fashion. This conclusion is far from the truth, as will be explained fully in the following analysis.

One of the most confusing aspects of the Examiner design is the enameled wire that protrudes through the case and terminates just below the calculator housing without any apparent connection. This type of connection can be explained by reference to the work carried out by Zaev, Avramenko and Lisin on displacement current. According to the authors – "The measurement of the polarisation current in matter can clean up the long-standing dispute about the nature of dielectric permeability of metals, and also make possible the transmission of energy along an isolated conductor without a galvanically closed current circuit. Nicholai Tesla demonstrated this on 1st February 1892 in London but the description of the method applied by him for such a transmission line has not been preserved."

A simple circuit (known as Avramenko’s fork) can be used to demonstrate this method of energy transmission.

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=411

Note that there is no connection between the load and a common terminal, such as ground. The load is quite simply isolated from ground, but it still receives power.

This type of circuit is not subject to Kirchoff’s current and voltage laws, and the output current measured in the load is not appreciatively affected by inserting a capacitor of 0.1uF in the line. This is the underlying principle of power derivation within the Examiner LRL, and the reason why the device needs no battery supply other than that provided by the calculator. Power to the circuit (a modified form of Avramenko’s fork) is provided directly by the calculator allowing precise tuning by the operator.

Although the original circuit contained two diodes, the version in the Examiner makes use of resonance techniques and longitudinal wave coupling to boost the energy to a level necessary for long range detection. The human component is also an essential part of the design. Just as a tuning fork (or in this case Avramenko’s fork) has natural frequencies for sound, the planet Earth has natural frequencies, called Schumann resonances, and the human brain has natural frequencies for electromagnetic radiation. It is known that that the Earth’s Schumann resonances are "in tune" with the human brain’s alpha and theta states. But since the Schumann resonance is very low, at about 7.5Hz, the frequencies programmed via the calculator must be down-converted and fine-tuned for effective long-range location to take place. In addition, the Schumann resonance can fluctuate by + or – 0.5Hz depending on the properties of the Earth’s electromagnetic cavity.

The natural frequencies of the human brain are:


Beta waves (14 to 30Hz)
Alpha waves (8 to 13Hz)
Theta waves (4 to 7 Hz)
Delta waves (1 to 3Hz)



This explains the inclusion of adjustable elements in the fork / down-converter circuit.

Although the underlying operating principle is complex and difficult to explain, the demonstrable success of these devices has been shown on a number of occasions. Unfortunately LRLs rarely work out-of-the-box, and may need to become acclimatised to their owner over a period of time. Perseverance is the key to successful hunting with an LRL.

Now – how to build your own:

Any battery powered calculator can theoretically be used as the high frequency programmable source. In fact, the simple cheap makes usually work best, as these all tend to use the same type of calculator chip.

Construct the primary "coil" for the down-converter that provides coupling between the calculator chip and the modified fork circuit. This element is not as critical as the LRL manufacturers would have you believe, and constructing this element according to the figure below will ensure success.

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=408

The primary serpentine "coil" is 22.5mm x 10mm, and requires a coil diameter of between 0.5 and 0.6mm.
The telescopic aerial is a standard part, as its purpose is to couple the human operator to the Earth’s Schumann resonance.
The modified fork circuit is identical to that shown below:

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=409
That’s it! Simple really. There is no critical alignment required, except for the connection between the primary "coil" and the calculator. It is important that the end of the wire should protrude through the case, and terminate just below the calculator chip. In most calculators this chip is located near to the center of the unit.



Advanced LRL Detector Based On The Ionic Detection Concept







This advanced version is electronically-based and uses the so-called ionic-electrostatic phenomenon to provide long range directional detection of metal objects.

The full circuit details are not provided here, as the unit is still under heavy development. However, the block diagram of this unit is shown below:

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=410

The IEP Biotronic System (codenamed Garreutto) consists of the following building blocks: Target Height Identification System, Identification Stabilizer, Amplifier, and Sample Chamber Amplifier Module.

A sample of the target metal must be placed in the substance chamber of the SCAM, where it undergoes a process of automatic calibration. The detector uses a physical phenomenon known as Ionic-Electrostatic B.S. to detect long-range targets. Although this unit is still experimental, it has been characterized as having a maximum range of 500m and depth of 50m, yet it only weighs 1kg including batteries.

More details to follow...

Dear friend,
I it possible make an ionic detector ,using calculator ,at home?
If so, please send for me exact practical scematic
This is my email star329sat@yahoo.com

thanks alot.
Shila-Mechanical engineer

[shila]

HOWTO Build Your Own Long Range Locator







The operating principle of LRLs is not immediately obvious if viewed from the perspective of accepted physics. First hand examination of these devices will reveal an apparently simplistic construction that obscures the complex subtlety of their design.

Two types are described here. The first is similar to the Ranger-Tell Examiner, and the other is an advanced electronic device that operates on the same underlying principle as the Mineoro detectors.

For example, the Ranger-Tell Examiner may appear at first sight to contain just a handful of components that seem loosely connected in some arbitrary fashion. This conclusion is far from the truth, as will be explained fully in the following analysis.

One of the most confusing aspects of the Examiner design is the enameled wire that protrudes through the case and terminates just below the calculator housing without any apparent connection. This type of connection can be explained by reference to the work carried out by Zaev, Avramenko and Lisin on displacement current. According to the authors – "The measurement of the polarisation current in matter can clean up the long-standing dispute about the nature of dielectric permeability of metals, and also make possible the transmission of energy along an isolated conductor without a galvanically closed current circuit. Nicholai Tesla demonstrated this on 1st February 1892 in London but the description of the method applied by him for such a transmission line has not been preserved."

A simple circuit (known as Avramenko’s fork) can be used to demonstrate this method of energy transmission.

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=411

Note that there is no connection between the load and a common terminal, such as ground. The load is quite simply isolated from ground, but it still receives power.

This type of circuit is not subject to Kirchoff’s current and voltage laws, and the output current measured in the load is not appreciatively affected by inserting a capacitor of 0.1uF in the line. This is the underlying principle of power derivation within the Examiner LRL, and the reason why the device needs no battery supply other than that provided by the calculator. Power to the circuit (a modified form of Avramenko’s fork) is provided directly by the calculator allowing precise tuning by the operator.

Although the original circuit contained two diodes, the version in the Examiner makes use of resonance techniques and longitudinal wave coupling to boost the energy to a level necessary for long range detection. The human component is also an essential part of the design. Just as a tuning fork (or in this case Avramenko’s fork) has natural frequencies for sound, the planet Earth has natural frequencies, called Schumann resonances, and the human brain has natural frequencies for electromagnetic radiation. It is known that that the Earth’s Schumann resonances are "in tune" with the human brain’s alpha and theta states. But since the Schumann resonance is very low, at about 7.5Hz, the frequencies programmed via the calculator must be down-converted and fine-tuned for effective long-range location to take place. In addition, the Schumann resonance can fluctuate by + or – 0.5Hz depending on the properties of the Earth’s electromagnetic cavity.

The natural frequencies of the human brain are:


Beta waves (14 to 30Hz)
Alpha waves (8 to 13Hz)
Theta waves (4 to 7 Hz)
Delta waves (1 to 3Hz)



This explains the inclusion of adjustable elements in the fork / down-converter circuit.

Although the underlying operating principle is complex and difficult to explain, the demonstrable success of these devices has been shown on a number of occasions. Unfortunately LRLs rarely work out-of-the-box, and may need to become acclimatised to their owner over a period of time. Perseverance is the key to successful hunting with an LRL.

Now – how to build your own:

Any battery powered calculator can theoretically be used as the high frequency programmable source. In fact, the simple cheap makes usually work best, as these all tend to use the same type of calculator chip.

Construct the primary "coil" for the down-converter that provides coupling between the calculator chip and the modified fork circuit. This element is not as critical as the LRL manufacturers would have you believe, and constructing this element according to the figure below will ensure success.

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=408

The primary serpentine "coil" is 22.5mm x 10mm, and requires a coil diameter of between 0.5 and 0.6mm.
The telescopic aerial is a standard part, as its purpose is to couple the human operator to the Earth’s Schumann resonance.
The modified fork circuit is identical to that shown below:

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=409
That’s it! Simple really. There is no critical alignment required, except for the connection between the primary "coil" and the calculator. It is important that the end of the wire should protrude through the case, and terminate just below the calculator chip. In most calculators this chip is located near to the center of the unit.



Advanced LRL Detector Based On The Ionic Detection Concept







This advanced version is electronically-based and uses the so-called ionic-electrostatic phenomenon to provide long range directional detection of metal objects.

The full circuit details are not provided here, as the unit is still under heavy development. However, the block diagram of this unit is shown below:

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=410

The IEP Biotronic System (codenamed Garreutto) consists of the following building blocks: Target Height Identification System, Identification Stabilizer, Amplifier, and Sample Chamber Amplifier Module.

A sample of the target metal must be placed in the substance chamber of the SCAM, where it undergoes a process of automatic calibration. The detector uses a physical phenomenon known as Ionic-Electrostatic B.S. to detect long-range targets. Although this unit is still experimental, it has been characterized as having a maximum range of 500m and depth of 50m, yet it only weighs 1kg including batteries.

More details to follow...

Dear friend,
Is it possible make an ionic detector ,using calculator ,at home?
If so, please send for me exact practical scematic
This is my email star329sat@yahoo.com

thanks alot.
Shila-Mechanical engineer

[Unregistered]

qiaozhi

some of the links not working.

thank you for your Benefit information.

[Qiaozhi]

OK - there is some confusion here.
The only complex LRL you can practically build yourself is the type similar to the Ranger-Tell Examiner. See this link:
http://www.thunting.com/cgi-bin/geotech/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=reports/examiner/index.dat
There is some dispute over the operation of these devices, so it make sense to build one yourself before parting with a lot of money. Description one in my last post is an attempt to explain the underlying principles behind this type of device. The construction is very simple, as can be seen from Carl's report in the above link.
The second design is extremely complicated and not suitable for home construction. Anyway, it's still under development. The Sample Chamber Amplifier Module (SCAM) is the most tricky part of the design to construct and calibrate. The Ionic-Electrostatic Phenonemon Biotronic System is an advancement on the standard ionic versions and the theory is still under intense study. The I.E.P. - B.S. system achieves very close coupling between the operator and the natural Schumann resonances of the earth. This is because the Biotronic-System (B.S.) calibrates not only the target sample, but also the operator, bringing the biological and electronic systems into alignment.
If you do build the Ranger-Tell Examiner lookalike, then please let us all know the results.

[Qiaozhi]

Can someone tell me how to insert an image into a post?
When I select "Insert Image" it requests a URL. I can upload images using the "Manage Attachements" button, but what should I do next?
Last time I tried pasting the html link into the post, but this only seemed to work for the first image.
Clearly I've lost the plot here...

[Qiaozhi]

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=411

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=416

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=417

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=418

[Carl-NC]

Adding attachments...

1) Click the "Manage Attachments" button
2) Click the "Browse" buttons to select files on your PC
3) Click "Upload" to transfer them to the forum server

Attachments are added at the end of your message, they cannot be placed at specific places in the message, as far as I know. Image URLs can.

- Carl

[Carl-NC]

The IEP Biotronic System (codenamed Garreutto) consists of the following building blocks: Target Height Identification System, Identification Stabilizer, Amplifier, and Sample Chamber Amplifier Module.


There is a clue here... I just can't put my finger on it...

[Carl-NC]

Yes. Ionic detection works and the Mineoro detectors do detect the gold ions.
All matter degrades with time and releases ions as they do.
This simply is not true. Most chemical reactions and matter decay do not produce ions.

Ions are modified atoms. When the atom loses electrons or gains electrons in this process of electron exchange, it is said to be IONIZED. For ionization to take place, there must be a transfer of energy which results in a change in the internal energy of the atom. Earth acts like this. An atom having more than its normal amount of electrons acquires a negative charge, and is called a NEGATIVE ION. The atom that gives up some of its normal electrons is left with less negative charges than positive charges and is called a POSITIVE ION.
OK, that's the basics of what an ion is...

The static electricity acts as a 'vehicle' transporting the ions in a elipse shape field and the detector captures the signal.

What static electricity? Are you saying wind has zero effect on atoms floating in the air?

This explanation is for all the others who don't know how it works. You have been given enough info about it and still seem to not comprehend it.


The explanation has too many gaping holes.

I'll ask again... is the a simple experiment I can do, which will demonstrate that gold produces ions?

- Carl

[Qiaozhi]

I agree with Carl - the description of operation for the ionic detector on the Mineoro website is incorrect. This is not the way that ionic-electrostatic detection works. Whoever wrote that information does not understand the basic underlying principles used in these detectors. The correct description for this phenomenon is "continually replenished alternating potential", or C.R.A.P. as it is known in the scientific community. This C.R.A.P. is expelled by objects that have been buried for a long time, and is continually replenished by the electrostatic field generated by the earth's rotation. Mineoro detectors capture this C.R.A.P. as it moves through space and compares its polarization to the sample contained in the Sample Chamber Amplifier Module. When the detected C.R.A.P. is mixed within the Biotronic System (using special modulation techniques) it is possible to discriminate between the different types of C.R.A.P. and output a signal accordingly.
Someone should really contact Mineoro and request that they update their website with the correct information.

[Esteban]

As I said: A microvoltmeter in association with a impulse stretcher and other electronics detects (in my case) 80 m for regular size item and 50 meter a coin from the detector. This micro or milivolts (potential) for small targets I post here many times (remember?) is the theme. For treasures more high voltage. Iron enclosure nullify the potential of noble metals.

[strujas]

i am interested for some lrs can you tell me for some which is good and give me a schematic?

[Largesarge]

Strujas, don't waste your time, effort and money on LRL's they are bogus. They are a ruse perpetrated by unscrupulous, immoral people whose only purpose is to part you from your hard earned money.

[Qiaozhi]

Strujas, don't waste your time, effort and money on LRL's they are bogus. They are a ruse perpetrated by unscrupulous, immoral people whose only purpose is to part you from your hard earned money.

I really wouldn't waste my money buying a commercial LRL. Internally they are very simple in construction. If you want to decide for yourself whether these devices are bogus or not, then go and build your own. If you're looking for "step-by-step" detailed instructions, then I could probably put some together and post the information on this forum.

LRLs are not for everyone, but they work best for people who fit this quote:
"Gaining an Understanding of Longrange Locator Instruments Breeds a Lifetime of Experience".

[mosha]

go ahead qiaozhi

we are awaiting.

[Carl-NC]

Once again, we have a disagreement over the concept of ion detection, and of Mineoro's claims. In order to detect ions, you need either a collector plate or a drift tube, and it must be exposed so ions can enter. The Mineoro has neither; it has a black plastic "sensor" on the front, and because it is sealed, ions cannot possibly enter it. It is silly to suggest otherwise.

Besides that, ion detection from a long distance is unfeasable. Ions are physical atoms... they will scatter, mix, and move with air currents. Even if you manage to detect a particular ion, there is no way to tell where it came from. And discriminating ion types (gold from oxygen) requires a drift tube, and a fair concentration of ions.

Please remember, I've actually tested a Mineoro PDC-205... it DID NOT work. It was completely unable to detect gold. I took it apart, and found that it DID NOT have the sensor or the circuitry needed for ion detection. The claims made by Mineoro are flatly false.

I don't want this to turn into a big argument. The purpose of these forums is to disseminate technical information about detecting methods. That's why I keep asking for experimental methods that will prove a claim... in these forums, claims alone mean nothing.

If anyone wishes to convince me that I'm wrong, you will need to provide some physical evidence. I suggest an experiment that conclusively demonstrates that gold emits ions. As an alternative, a chemical equation that shows the reaction which produces the gold ions. Or an experiment that demonstrates a long distance ion detector.

I'm still waiting for Mineoro to follow up on their request to take my $25,000 LRL challenge. My last few emails have gone unanswered. So, for those who believe the Mineoro detectors work, have fun with them. Everyone else, be wary.

- Carl

[strujas]

"Qiaozhi"
"If you're looking for "step-by-step" detailed instructions, then I could probably put some together and post the information on this forum."
Post it!

[Qiaozhi]

Try this ->

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=437&stc=1

[strujas]

post a completly instructions,,not step by step,,i am hurry,,thanx....

[Francisco Xavier]

A simple experimence (more simple than I expected)
I am not a electronic engeneer, but
Pardon Qiaozhi, the efect you refer about glowing incrase when you increase the antena lenght is induced by antena capacitance, once you feed the leds with ac current.
Once the antena capacitance increase, the antena will be more tunned and irradiate (dissipate) more common radio electromagnetic energy! until you reach some multiple of wave lenght. (if you decrease the ac frequence you will see less glowing on the led - higher the frequency higher capacitance you need to stay the antena tunned -> more lenght of wiring you need!) It is basic.
If you feed the led with DC or very low frequency you would not glow the led.

Greetings and wish success to you

Francisco Xavier

[Francisco Xavier]

Excuse me, at my post bellow:
higher the frequency higher capacitance you need to stay the antena tunned
must read:
lower the frequency higher capacitance you need to stay the antena tunned

Thank you,

Francisco Xavier

[Esteban]

Qiaozhi, is based on this Avramenko's implementation?

[Qiaozhi]

Hi Estaban,

I am aware of J.L. Naudin's work. This is a similar experiment, but uses a very high voltage to transmit power along a single wire. Obviously it is more complicated to construct. You will note that it also requires an antenna, supposedly to collect free electrons from space, otherwise the xenon tube does not light. Sound familiar?

As I asked in the PDF document, does this have something to do with ionic detection - you decide...

Naudin states the device must be battery driven and not grounded. For the simple experiment I have described, this is not true. I used a bench power supply and that was connected to earth, and running at 5V (not 30KV). Good detective work though.

I really must insist that you construct this simple experiment. To Francisco Xavier (what a excellent name :-) - please to not dismiss this with the theory that it is the tuning which is affected. My guess is that you have not constructed or tested this experiment. Sorry - but basic tuning is not the correct answer.

As soon as someone builds this and confirms the results, I will post the detailed LRL instructions.

To Strujas:
"With time and patience the mulberry leaf becomes a silk robe."
So be patient my friend.

[okantex]

Hi Qiaozhi
did you find anything with your instrument
does it detect all metals or selects some

[Qiaozhi]

As soon as someone builds the circuit for this simple experiment and confirms the results, I will post the detailed LRL instructions.

And yes - the design I intend to post does have a means of target discrimination.

But - I will away on business for 2 weeks from this coming Saturday, so you must be patient. Also, I will need some time to make a decent job of the instructions, otherwise there will no doubt be a ton of problems.

Qiaozhi

***************************************
"Yup - That sure is a big pile alright" - Don Lancaster
***************************************

[mosha]

Hi Qiaozhi

where can I get information about "continually replenished alternating potential", or C.R.A.P.?

[shila]

After so many discussions about ionic metal detection, began by a simple question,now I say:this toy is only
a "lier detector" that exactly targets to Mr. mineoro and
some other stupids that forgotten honesty!
For your information ,there is some E_mail adds in mineoro website as a treasure hunters using these
silly tools! ALL E_MAIL ADDS ARE INVALID!!!
What u think?!
Special thanks for all open_mind people writing here.
I mean CARL......:)

Yours. Shila

[Qiaozhi]

OK - I give up!

My apologies to anyone who believed the total drivel that I have posted over the last couple of weeks.

Let's get one thing straight - LRLs do not work, have never worked, and never will work in a month of Sundays. They are based on a set of completely ridiculous ideas involving either dowsing or some pseudoscience about ions and electrostatic electricity. There is absolutely no evidence to support the idea that buried objects emit ions that can be detected hundreds of metres away. This is complete bollocks. Neither do they emit "continually replenished alternating potential" (or C.R.A.P. for short). The work "crap" has a number of meanings, but in this instance it means "bull****". In other words, nothing but a load of manufactured nonsense.

I'm actually quite dismayed it has taken so long for someone (thanks Shila) to come forward and call a halt to this thread. Not that I haven't made it blatantly obvious from the very start that this was a hoax. The whole idea of LRLs is too ridiculous for words.

I am aware that several contributors to this forum do not have English as their first language, and therefore certain subtle references may not have been obvious. (Actually they were more akin to a large brick.)

Carl (of course) spotted the hoax very early in the proceedings, when I wrote "The IEP Biotronic System (codenamed Garreutto) consists of the following building blocks: Target Height Identification System, Identification Stabilizer, Amplifier, and Sample Chamber Amplifier Module."

The highlighted letters spell out "THIS IS A SCAM".

I'm sure Carl was not the only eagle-eyed reader to spot that one.

Other clues were:

"Ionic-Electrostatic B.S.", where B.S. obviously refers to "bull****".

"Garreutto" - a reference to Garrett, since Mineoro (Minelabs) and Tesouros (Tesoro) had already been used.

LRLs are not for everyone, but they work best for people who fit this quote:
"Gaining an Understanding of Longrange Locator Instruments Breeds a Lifetime of Experience".

Come on guys...... this spells out "gullible" - meaning "naive and easily deceived or tricked".

I did guess that some of you were playing along with the hoax, but others..... well I'm not so sure.

Anyway, I had some fun concocting this ridiculous fantasy, and particularly enjoyed writing the description of the Ranger-Tell Examiner with its ability to couple the human operator to the Earth's Schumann resonances by using longitudinal coupling.

To be perfectly honest I had not expected to push this crazy charade as far as this, and the detailed step-by-step instructions do not exist. Although I do have an outline in my mind for a fairly convincing design, complete with SCAM chamber. However, I don't think it is really fair for any of you to waste money on something that has not the slightest chance of detecting anything useful. In other words, it would definitely have been crap.

The only truthful part of this fairy story is the Avramenko's Fork circuit. Trust me - it does work... and I really would like someone else to build it. Also, see if you can figure out how it actually works. It's a little strange when you see the LED illuminate with a single wire feeding the diodes. There is no return path, so why is it alight? It has nothing to do with tuning. Anyway, I'll leave you with that little puzzle, as I will be away for 2 weeks.

To end on a serious note - please, please, please do not spend your hard earned money on an LRL. Carl only purchases them in order to disassemble and expose these items as the worthless pieces of junk that they are. Please listen to him - he knows what he's talking about.

Lastly - I promise from now on to be a good citizen and only post good stuff.

Qiaozhi

[Largesarge]

Nicely done my friend, I was waiting to see how far this would go before someone finally caught on.


Take care and have a safe trip.

[LRL USER]

This design is tested!
For better performance, all diode may be generally deleted.
But, supply must be increased from 5V over 220 V/ac, or dc line, as minimum.
http://tinypic.com/k3wu3d.gif

[Qiaozhi]

Oh dear - I expect I'll be telepathic by the time this thread is finished.

Dear LRL User,

Firstly - thanks for building and testing the Avramenko's Fork circuit. Unfortunately I don't think you've quite grasped the point of this experiment. :confused: The diodes are a necessary part of the design and cannot be removed. I'm not sure what you mean to achieve by removing these components, or by increasing the voltage to 220V.

The whole idea behind this circuit is to demonstrate something that (on the face of it) should not work. How can the LED possibly be illuminated when there is no return path for the current? There is a single wire leaving the output of the oscillator, and the end of the wire is just hanging in free space with 2 diodes connected back-to-back across an LED load. The antenna also adds another element of mystery.

This really has nothing directly to do with LRL detectors, but I worked the idea into my B.S. description of these machines, if "machine" is the correct word to use. I can think of other less polite terms.

Can you confirm for everyone else's benefit that the LED was alight when connected in the configuration shown? There is no point removing the diodes and connecting the other terminal of the LED to ground. It is obvious that this will work as it simply follows Kirchoff's voltage (KVL) and current (KCL) laws.

You can also try running a SPICE simulation if you like, and (with the circuit exactly as shown in the diagram) you will discover that there is insufficient current flowing in the LED for it to illuminate. This is the mystery.

One last point - what is the significance of the strangely shaped brown object called RLOAD. Although I know what it looks like! :rolleyes: Perhaps you're just playing along with the game. ;)

Qiaozhi
"The more a man learns, the more he sees his ignorance"

[Qiaozhi]

Here's the SPICE netlist:

Avramenko's Fork
D1 VIN A 1N914
D2 B VIN 1N914
* LED
D3 A 2 1N914
D4 2 3 1N914
D5 3 B 1N914
.MODEL 1N914 D RS=0.806986 EG=1.11 XTI=3 VJ=0.509542 M=0.0139603
+ FC=0.99 BV=100 CJO=8.43931E-013 IS=7.86336E-009 N=2 TT=2.594864E-008
VIN VIN 0 SIN ( 0 2.5 8E+006 0 0 )
R1 VIN 0 1E+012
.TRAN 1E-005 0.01 0 1E-008
.END

The LED has been simply modelled as three diodes in series. This is sufficient for the purposes of this exercise.
R1 is a 1 tera ohm resistor to satisfy the requirements of the simulator. i.e. that it needs 2 connections per node. In practice it's an open-circuit, but for the simulator it provides a DC path to ground as well.
Measure the voltage between nodes A and B. You will find that it's zero.
So - when you actually build the circuit, why the does the LED illuminate?
That's the riddle...

[hung]

Sorry if I hurt some feelings, but after all the non sense post here regarding the supposed non existence of ionic fields, I have some good news to the ones who have detectors based on this.

A friend of mine, serious treasure hunter in Brazil, with record of several valuable finds, while searching for a certain target on beach, detected a 7 gram gold ring with a PDC 210 (same model as I have) from 230 feet away which was 12 inches deep.
Of course this was not the target he was after. But this is important news since this is an impressive mark for the PDC. This mark is usually up to the new GDMs and GDPs.
The ionic fields right now in Brazil are excellent.
Regards to all.

[Qiaozhi]

Sorry if I hurt some feelings, but after all the non sense post here regarding the supposed non existence of ionic fields, I have some good news to the ones who have detectors based on this.

A friend of mine, serious treasure hunter in Brazil, with record of several valuable finds, while searching for a certain target on beach, detected a 7 gram gold ring with a PDC 210 (same model as I have) from 230 feet away which was 12 inches deep.
Of course this was not the target he was after. But this is important news since this is an impressive mark for the PDC. This mark is usually up to the new GDMs and GDPs.
The ionic fields right now in Brazil are excellent.
Regards to all.

The problem with this anecdote is that it is subjective rather than objective.
It is impossible to ascertain whether the target (a gold ring in this case) was actually detected using the PDC 210, or was the result of a lucky find. Perhaps the "serious treasure hunter" in this quote should step forward and take Carl's LRL challenge. There's a guaranteed $25,000 reward for a successful result. http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif

Zhu ni hao yunqi!

[okantex]

qiaozhi

did not you come back to your home
You give a promise on your long rang locator.why did you stop talking on it
there is a truth of locating from long distances but the right way could not find yet.even a stick can locate cavities underground.
we are waiting for yours.it looks like earth's magnetic field density locator

[Carl-NC]

Sorry if I hurt some feelings, but after all the non sense post here regarding the supposed non existence of ionic fields, I have some good news to the ones who have detectors based on this.

A friend of mine, serious treasure hunter in Brazil, with record of several valuable finds, while searching for a certain target on beach, detected a 7 gram gold ring with a PDC 210 (same model as I have) from 230 feet away which was 12 inches deep.
Of course this was not the target he was after. But this is important news since this is an impressive mark for the PDC. This mark is usually up to the new GDMs and GDPs.
The ionic fields right now in Brazil are excellent.
Regards to all.

No feelings hurt here! All opinions & inputs are welcomed, as long as it's kept polite.

I've heard of a number of finds made with dowsing-type LRLs, yet my own testing shows they do not work. So how do people find things with them? There are a number of different ways that have nothing at all to do with the LRL itself.

So, I generally don't place a lot of weight on sporadic LRL successes, especially when the failure rate is so overwhelmingly high. If I had a legitimate LRL that could detect gold from even 100 feet away, I would be walking the resort beaches and digging up 100 rings a day, easy.

What I still want to see, is an experiment that demonstrates this ionic detection method. No one yet has come up with anything.

- Carl

[Qiaozhi]

qiaozhi

did not you come back to your home
You give a promise on your long rang locator.why did you stop talking on it
there is a truth of locating from long distances but the right way could not find yet.even a stick can locate cavities underground.
we are waiting for yours.it looks like earth's magnetic field density locator

Hi Okantex,

I think you must have missed one of my earlier posts entitled - "Don't get upset - it was all a hoax". For whatever bizarre and twisted reason, I was simply playing with the minds of the LRL users on this forum. Personally I believe that LRLs are based on flawed science, and (at worst) are scams perpetrated by people who are perfectly aware that these devices have no chance of detecting gold or silver from even a few inches. You may believe otherwise, and I wish you luck in your treasure hunting. However - do you not find it the least bit strange that no-one has ever claimed the $25,000 dollar prize that is on offer? Surely one of the LRL manufacturers should be able to prove the reality of their claims by taking this simple test.

My apologies if you were expecting something more. By the way, I am still away from home, but am able to access the internet.

Qiaozhi.

[okantex]

Thanks for your reply

[hung]

I've heard of a number of finds made with dowsing-type LRLs, yet my own testing shows they do not work. So how do people find things with them? There are a number of different ways that have nothing at all to do with the LRL itself.

This is the last time I'll go into this subject which at least for me will lead to nowhere.
You've heard a lot of sucess stories from people who dowse yet you still claim it does not work. It's a big contradiction don't you think? When a lot of people who dowse report sucess and you can't dowse and yet report it does not work. This is not fair. I think you should investigate why you can't do it other than bashing people who can.

I don't believe dowsing works. I KNOW it works. For reasons I won't bring here because the evidences would bring another 'battle' just like in other forums.

Anyway, the PDC is no dowsing . It's an electronic equipment which is able to trace down the gold target to its source. After about a year and a half of owning one, I have located a lot of targets. I've noticed that for small objects like coins or rings, the PDC almost beep directly to them. Although the use of a 2 box is welcome. But one should only use it when he knows the aproximate spot, as the 2 box will destroy the field for several days. For bigger targets or when the object is buried for a very long time, the ionic field is huge and when you walk inside its perimeter, there will be beeps in all directions. In this case, the use of a 2 or 3 KV generator is necessary to bring the field down and depolarize it.



So, I generally don't place a lot of weight on sporadic LRL successes, especially when the failure rate is so overwhelmingly high. If I had a legitimate LRL that could detect gold from even 100 feet away, I would be walking the resort beaches and digging up 100 rings a day, easy.


Sure you could do it.
When I was at Mineoro's factory I saw the hundreds of items recovered at the beach in Garopaba where 30,000 pieces are estimated waiting to be recovered.
You'll need time, lots of water, sunscreen and perseverance. The best time here is the summer time. Temperatures of 104 degrees almost all day long. Beach is completely crowded. You have almost no space to even walk a 10 foot straight line.
Peak times for ionic fields are bet 11:30 and 13:00 and from 15:00 to 17;30.
So as you see, it's a lot easier saying 'Ill recover every ring at the beach' and actually going there and doing it under these conditions.
Are you ready to only do this for a living?

No LRL around is a 'ready, out of the box' unit for general use. If it was, then all the gold of the world would be probably gone by now. It takes experience, personal techniques, knowledge of your equipment and perseverance. It also takes time.
In the case of Mineoro detectors, they are all dependent of the ionic field phenomena. There are proved times of year when those fields are real low, and the probability of finding diminishes completely. I for myself had sucess locating a long time seek target in those bad times.


What I still want to see, is an experiment that demonstrates this ionic detection method. No one yet has come up with anything.


As I said earlier. I'm far from trying to convince people about this. What for?
If you think the ionic field is a falacy, fine. Just go up front and say you found no evidence it works. But I think it's trully unfair to deliberately claim it does not work. You run the serious risk to be disproved and the inconvenience of not being taken seriously anymore.
If you want proof, have a trip to Mineoro. Talk to Damasio, the inventor. Take your conclusions. Have you noticed he don't bother to come to forums to discuss this?
And before you think of saying this, I can do it . I'm no representative, affiliated, or work for Mineoro.
I know a lot of people who use the detectors and had sucess. Why you can't?
When I was there Damasio's secretary received a fax from a mexican researcher who for several months could not detect anything. As I could read his story, he said he was about to also think it was just a big BS detector. When...
He had been in an old abandoned church lots of times and the PDC beeped every time he was there in a certain direction. Only then he realized the beeps were not falsing or caused by electrical interference. Also they were not coming from any buried object. The origin of them was from candeliers which were over a table. As they were full of dirt, people always thought they ware made of brass. Surprise, surprise....

[Esteban]

Carl, I think Mineoro can change your only one potentiometer microcontroller type for a PDC 205 or PDC 210 two controls type. These two models 2 pots. are very different. Also in the past I had the automatic...

[Unregistered]

If you are really looking for a long range detector then I have a chicken that can sense gold and silver at over 2 kilometres. After extensive conversations with a geneticist at university of Liverpool in England it seems that the chicken expresses a gene shared with dowsers. Now I’m not prepared to sell the actual chicken however the geneticist have assured me that there should be a least one chicken in each clutch that will share this gene. What I’m offering is each of these chicks for a bargain price of £10,000, yes I know there worth a lot more but I have so much gold and silver now that the money is unimportant to me, the £10,000 is just to ensure you can afford to give each one of my loved pets a good home. If you are not interested in a chick perhaps because of an allergy, then I can put you in touch with a good friend of mine Jack who has developed a new strain of bean that when grow in manure from my chickens will produce gold. As I have signed a non-disclosure agreement I am not at liberty to explain the process however in a similar manner that peas will fix nitrogen at its roots, this new strain of bean fixes gold near the top of the plant. The new stain of bean Phaseolus Mag icus will be offered at a reasonable £1000 per bean. Please note that you will not be allowed to sell any beans generated by the plant due to patient restrictions. If you are interested in getting in at the ground level of these products then drop me a mail at makmea@richman.org.

[Great_Alex]

:) Hi

You must know that every detected signal by device like Mineroo not true signal infact in real treasure field there are many things that may give you mistake signal if you want to buy a long range locator Thomas Gravitator or PMRIII of Anderson rods give you better results with less Mistake .
you must know all about soil condition and effect of ground electromagnetic field.
always check your result by a pulseInduction detector . I test many of them and Lorenz DeepMax is the best .

You can trust result of lorenz but alway before drill a deep well search near surface (to .5 meters deep of ground surface) by a 25 cm (Diameter) coil or a metal detector like explorer Minelab for finding junks.
it's very important because signal of junks and little metals near surface that they don't so far of each other is like a good treasure in deep.


Cheers

[Largesarge]

Very good there unregistered rich guy.:D :D :D :D :cool:

[Qiaozhi]

If you are really looking for a long range detector then I have a chicken that can sense gold and silver at over 2 kilometres. After extensive conversations with a geneticist at university of Liverpool in England it seems that the chicken expresses a gene shared with dowsers. Now I’m not prepared to sell the actual chicken however the geneticist have assured me that there should be a least one chicken in each clutch that will share this gene. What I’m offering is each of these chicks for a bargain price of £10,000, yes I know there worth a lot more but I have so much gold and silver now that the money is unimportant to me, the £10,000 is just to ensure you can afford to give each one of my loved pets a good home. If you are not interested in a chick perhaps because of an allergy, then I can put you in touch with a good friend of mine Jack who has developed a new strain of bean that when grow in manure from my chickens will produce gold. As I have signed a non-disclosure agreement I am not at liberty to explain the process however in a similar manner that peas will fix nitrogen at its roots, this new strain of bean fixes gold near the top of the plant. The new stain of bean Phaseolus Mag icus will be offered at a reasonable £1000 per bean. Please note that you will not be allowed to sell any beans generated by the plant due to patient restrictions. If you are interested in getting in at the ground level of these products then drop me a mail at makmea@richman.org.

Hee Hee!!
and very reasonably priced too...

[Siliquae_Sid]

Yes. Ionic detection works and the Mineoro detectors do detect the gold ions.
All matter degrades with time and releases ions as they do.

Ions are modified atoms. When the atom loses electrons or gains electrons in this process of electron exchange, it is said to be IONIZED. For ionization to take place, there must be a transfer of energy which results in a change in the internal energy of the atom. Earth acts like this. An atom having more than its normal amount of electrons acquires a negative charge, and is called a NEGATIVE ION. The atom that gives up some of its normal electrons is left with less negative charges than positive charges and is called a POSITIVE ION.

The static electricity acts as a 'vehicle' transporting the ions in a elipse shape field and the detector captures the signal.

This explanation is for all the others who don't know how it works. You have been given enough info about it and still seem to not comprehend it.

I'm a one type of person who does not try to convince people of the truth.They think and act at their will.

DUR!!!!

Static electricity?? The point is that STATIC electricity CANNOT transport jack s**t it's STATIC!! The only thing you can measure is the strength or density of the field, and in no way can so called ionic detection work in this way.

Looking at the internals of these LRL's, you stand more chance sticking a pin in a map and digging a hole there. Sure you might get lucky, and I have to admit that DOWSING DOES WORK, despite a comlete lack of scientific explanation.

What you have is not some fancy metal detector, it convinces the user that they have an innate ability to sense the distortions in the magnetic field of the earth, in the same way birds use it to navigate, yet you seem hell bent on trying to explain in bulls**t made up terminology, that which cannot be explained. I have yet to see one of these instruments better a pair of bent copper rods, or a crystal on a string held over a map. When will you people stop trying to pretend that you know what you are talking about and get real.

To be honest, these scams might work they might not, for some they do for others they don't, the more you believe, probably the more likely the unit is to work for you.

See PLACEBO in the dictionary, also GULLIBLE, SCAM, RIP-OFF and MUG. In some cases check out RETARD too.

[Unregistered]

HOWTO Build Your Own Long Range Locator

The operating principle of LRLs is not immediately obvious if viewed from the perspective of accepted physics. First hand examination of these devices will reveal an apparently simplistic construction that obscures the complex subtlety of their design.

Two types are described here. The first is similar to the Ranger-Tell Examiner, and the other is an advanced electronic device that operates on the same underlying principle as the Mineoro detectors.

For example, the Ranger-Tell Examiner may appear at first sight to contain just a handful of components that seem loosely connected in some arbitrary fashion. This conclusion is far from the truth, as will be explained fully in the following analysis.

One of the most confusing aspects of the Examiner design is the enameled wire that protrudes through the case and terminates just below the calculator housing without any apparent connection. This type of connection can be explained by reference to the work carried out by Zaev, Avramenko and Lisin on displacement current. According to the authors – "The measurement of the polarisation current in matter can clean up the long-standing dispute about the nature of dielectric permeability of metals, and also make possible the transmission of energy along an isolated conductor without a galvanically closed current circuit. Nicholai Tesla demonstrated this on 1st February 1892 in London but the description of the method applied by him for such a transmission line has not been preserved."

A simple circuit (known as Avramenko’s fork) can be used to demonstrate this method of energy transmission.

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=411

Note that there is no connection between the load and a common terminal, such as ground. The load is quite simply isolated from ground, but it still receives power.

This type of circuit is not subject to Kirchoff’s current and voltage laws, and the output current measured in the load is not appreciatively affected by inserting a capacitor of 0.1uF in the line. This is the underlying principle of power derivation within the Examiner LRL, and the reason why the device needs no battery supply other than that provided by the calculator. Power to the circuit (a modified form of Avramenko’s fork) is provided directly by the calculator allowing precise tuning by the operator.

Although the original circuit contained two diodes, the version in the Examiner makes use of resonance techniques and longitudinal wave coupling to boost the energy to a level necessary for long range detection. The human component is also an essential part of the design. Just as a tuning fork (or in this case Avramenko’s fork) has natural frequencies for sound, the planet Earth has natural frequencies, called Schumann resonances, and the human brain has natural frequencies for electromagnetic radiation. It is known that that the Earth’s Schumann resonances are "in tune" with the human brain’s alpha and theta states. But since the Schumann resonance is very low, at about 7.5Hz, the frequencies programmed via the calculator must be down-converted and fine-tuned for effective long-range location to take place. In addition, the Schumann resonance can fluctuate by + or – 0.5Hz depending on the properties of the Earth’s electromagnetic cavity.

The natural frequencies of the human brain are:



Beta waves (14 to 30Hz)
Alpha waves (8 to 13Hz)
Theta waves (4 to 7 Hz)
Delta waves (1 to 3Hz)



This explains the inclusion of adjustable elements in the fork / down-converter circuit.

Although the underlying operating principle is complex and difficult to explain, the demonstrable success of these devices has been shown on a number of occasions. Unfortunately LRLs rarely work out-of-the-box, and may need to become acclimatised to their owner over a period of time. Perseverance is the key to successful hunting with an LRL.

Now – how to build your own:

Any battery powered calculator can theoretically be used as the high frequency programmable source. In fact, the simple cheap makes usually work best, as these all tend to use the same type of calculator chip.

Construct the primary "coil" for the down-converter that provides coupling between the calculator chip and the modified fork circuit. This element is not as critical as the LRL manufacturers would have you believe, and constructing this element according to the figure below will ensure success.

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=408

The primary serpentine "coil" is 22.5mm x 10mm, and requires a coil diameter of between 0.5 and 0.6mm.
The telescopic aerial is a standard part, as its purpose is to couple the human operator to the Earth’s Schumann resonance.
The modified fork circuit is identical to that shown below:

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=409
That’s it! Simple really. There is no critical alignment required, except for the connection between the primary "coil" and the calculator. It is important that the end of the wire should protrude through the case, and terminate just below the calculator chip. In most calculators this chip is located near to the center of the unit.


Advanced LRL Detector Based On The Ionic Detection Concept

This advanced version is electronically-based and uses the so-called ionic-electrostatic phenomenon to provide long range directional detection of metal objects.

The full circuit details are not provided here, as the unit is still under heavy development. However, the block diagram of this unit is shown below:

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=410

The IEP Biotronic System (codenamed Garreutto) consists of the following building blocks: Target Height Identification System, Identification Stabilizer, Amplifier, and Sample Chamber Amplifier Module.

A sample of the target metal must be placed in the substance chamber of the SCAM, where it undergoes a process of automatic calibration. The detector uses a physical phenomenon known as Ionic-Electrostatic B.S. to detect long-range targets. Although this unit is still experimental, it has been characterized as having a maximum range of 500m and depth of 50m, yet it only weighs 1kg including batteries.

More details to follow...

Very impressive way of stating the scientific facts.
Now this principal of detection appear to have some similarities to the use of radiestezic rods.
I use to practice radiestezic searches and was very good at it.
Now I need to know more about some of the odd science behind those fenomenons. If you could help please use my e-mail chaushev2004@yahoo.co.uk
It will be nice to have a chat about some "wichcraft" :))))

All best
Georgi Chaushev
The Nexus Designer

[Siliquae_Sid]

There speaks the voice of a VERY clever man! The Nexus is a very capable and beautifully built machine, but why no push button retune facility Georgi or is that for the Mk II ;)

[Unregistered]

There speaks the voice of a VERY clever man! The Nexus is a very capable and beautifully built machine, but why no push button retune facility Georgi or is that for the Mk II ;)


It does not require retune since it is stable enough.
How ever we should not discuss the Nexus on this tread. It will be better if you have any more questions to go to the Coils tread.
Cheers.

[Raque]

Any body who can give me a complete circuit and coil details specially the avramenko's fork circuit of the Ranger tell examiner for experiment purpose pls. My purpose is purely educational.

Raque

[Qiaozhi]

Any body who can give me a complete circuit and coil details specially the avramenko's fork circuit of the Ranger tell examiner for experiment purpose pls. My purpose is purely educational.

Raque

The full details can be found here ->
http://www.thunting.com/cgi-bin/geotech/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=reports/examiner/index.dat

[hunterq3]

[/url]
to [url="http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/member.php4?u=619"]Qiaozhi (http://www.shcx555.com/cn/pic/2006422145348.jpg) :I think you are intersted in chinese culture ,I hope make friend with you .my email hunterq3@163.com vbmenu_register("postmenu_40705", true); thank you

[Seeker]

Hi everybody,
I have GREAT FUN, when I read all about LRL. A certain clever man, lived 500 years ago said that "Where have measuring there is a sciense.The rest of it is a fraud".
Indeed ,when Volta made experiments with frog leg, this was a magic for another people,but Volta didn't sale frog legs , he made supposition about nature of this phenomenon.

LRL-makers speculate with people's naivety.This is like lottery: "You can win something in 80%" = "You can find something in 80%".So what you say in this case: "My car will carry me in 50% "?:eek: I say it is broken car.

I think it is science question "What have there?" is open and mast hard work to find answer, not to sale "frog legs".

Thank you for your attention.

[Unregistered]

If you are really looking for a long range detector then I have a chicken that can sense gold and silver at over 2 kilometres. After extensive conversations with a geneticist at university of Liverpool in England it seems that the chicken expresses a gene shared with dowsers. Now I’m not prepared to sell the actual chicken however the geneticist have assured me that there should be a least one chicken in each clutch that will share this gene. What I’m offering is each of these chicks for a bargain price of £10,000, yes I know there worth a lot more but I have so much gold and silver now that the money is unimportant to me, the £10,000 is just to ensure you can afford to give each one of my loved pets a good home. If you are not interested in a chick perhaps because of an allergy, then I can put you in touch with a good friend of mine Jack who has developed a new strain of bean that when grow in manure from my chickens will produce gold. As I have signed a non-disclosure agreement I am not at liberty to explain the process however in a similar manner that peas will fix nitrogen at its roots, this new strain of bean fixes gold near the top of the plant. The new stain of bean Phaseolus Mag icus will be offered at a reasonable £1000 per bean. Please note that you will not be allowed to sell any beans generated by the plant due to patient restrictions. If you are interested in getting in at the ground level of these products then drop me a mail at makmea@richman.org.

Geez...You guys are expensive,
Got a chicken, a box and some time, the school of Phalsicus Magicus, to cut it short read , black pullet, gold finding hen.
But weren`t your beans supposed to be planted in a skull?

Midday at blue apples

[ram]

just bring all ur detectors to my country mindanao philippines particularly davao city and davao oriental. this site was known to be japanese stronghold during world war II. tunnels and burried metal objects including gold bullions were in this sites. last week we dug two old japanese bombs used in world war II at 23 ft. but since i never heard long range metal detectors,mineoro,magnetometers or other known deep seeking detectors were used in my area to detect deeply burried metal objects.example of deep seeking detector, w/c is used by the taiwanese rescue volunteers,us marines,university of the philippines (UP) who went in leyte tragedy the landslide in part of leyte were almost one barangay were burried including the whole elementay school buildings full with childrens and teacher inside all burried alive to mud for almost 30 meters (mud and rocks).all volunteers coming from other country including the us marines having sofisticated deep seeking detectors for metals and imaging device to detect the presence of objects and to locate the buildings burried and to detect if some human were alive inside the landslide area.but nothing detected..now,were are those deep seeking devices?

[Unregistered]

Hi, all!

I'm looking for a second hand Mineoro ionic long range metal detector.
If someone has one for sell,or if someone knows where I could find it, please send me a mail at
playman262000@yahoo.com
Thanks a lot!

[hung]

Dell Winder's friend has a GDP 538 which he wishes to sell. Look for a thread in this forum. If you are not able to find it, get back to me and I'll provide you a link.

[hung]

http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?t=11763

[Chris2]

Hi Qiaozhi,

check this PCB program out....I think this is what you are looking for....

http://www.abacom-online.de/uk/html/lochmaster.html

Chris

[Unregistered]

Geez...You guys are expensive,
Got a chicken, a box and some time, the school of Phalsicus Magicus, to cut it short read , black pullet, gold finding hen.
But weren`t your beans supposed to be planted in a skull?

Midday at blue apples

Say what????????????????

[Qiaozhi]

Say what????????????????
The whole was a joke. :D :D Not to be taken seriously. ;)

[Rudy]

There is a clue here... I just can't put my finger on it...

:) :) :) :) :) ;) ;) ;) ;) :D :D :D :D :D :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Rudy]

Hung,

Can you please explain what an "ionic field" is?

I know perfectly well what an ion is and I know what an electric or magnetic field are, but I can not understand what you mean by an ionic field.

Is it:

A stream of ionized particles (gold in this case) as in a plasma stream?

The electric (electrostatic) field generated by an ion due to its charge imbalance?

Something else?

[hung]

Hung,

Can you please explain what an "ionic field" is?

I know perfectly well what an ion is and I know what an electric or magnetic field are, but I can not understand what you mean by an ionic field.

Is it:

A stream of ionized particles (gold in this case) as in a plasma stream?

The electric (electrostatic) field generated by an ion due to its charge imbalance?

Something else?


It's not a stream. The ionic fields spread everywhere.
All matter looses mass, thus atomic weight, thus atoms in form of ions.

From Mineoro's site:

Creation of Ionic fields

Generated by continuous high tension positive or negative by sharp point. Normally around 800 to 900 volts. Other tensions are feasible.
- Ionic field by chemical flow in galvanization processes.
- Other ionic fields generators for different purposes, so-called ionizators.

******************

Unfortunately, your dual option question above lacks the depth to comprehend what else was discovered to substantiate and enhance your own descriptions infered.

[Rudy]

It's not a stream. The ionic fields spread everywhere.
All matter looses mass, thus atomic weight, thus atoms in form of ions.

Not true. I've actually gained mass since my marriage.:D

In a more serious vein, an ion is an atom that is not electrically neutral due to the loss/gain of one or more electrons, usually in their outermost shell.

If an atom ionizes by shedding an electron, it losses an infinitesimally small amount of mass, while if it ionizes by acquiring an excess electron, it gains an infinitesimally small amount of mass.

The loss or gain of those electrons is temporary. The ion will not stay in this energetic state and soon picks up free electrons, or sheds the excess ones, to achieve a lower energy state. This produces radiation (Fraunhoffer radiation) usually in the visible spectrum. In any case, the change in atomic weight is negligible, as is the mass of an electron compared to the atom's nucleus.


From Mineoro's site:

Creation of Ionic fields

Generated by continuous high tension positive or negative by sharp point. Normally around 800 to 900 volts. Other tensions are feasible.
- Ionic field by chemical flow in galvanization processes.
- Other ionic fields generators for different purposes, so-called ionizators.

******************

Unfortunately, your dual option question above lacks the depth to comprehend what else was discovered to substantiate and enhance your own descriptions infered.


I asked the manner in which you were using the term ionic field and you give me a bunch of disconnected factoids from the Mineoro web site.:rolleyes: Which none of them has anything to do with detecting gold.

Generated by continuous high tension positive or negative by sharp point. Normally around 800 to 900 volts. Other tensions are feasible.
I can see a hand held box creating this ionizing radiation, but how would buried gold accomplish the same?

- Ionic field by chemical flow in galvanization processes.
Gold is a noble metal. It doesn't take part in a galvanic process, unlike other more active metals like zinc.

- Other ionic fields generators for different purposes, so-called ionizators None of which would be found alongside buried gold.

I asked you for a simple explanation of this gold ionic field that is being detected and you throw mumbo jumbo back at me. Sorry Hung, but it doesn't wash.

[hung]

Not true. I've actually gained mass since my marriage.:D

In a more serious vein, an ion is an atom that is not electrically neutral due to the loss/gain of one or more electrons, usually in their outermost shell.

If an atom ionizes by shedding an electron, it losses an infinitesimally small amount of mass, while if it ionizes by acquiring an excess electron, it gains an infinitesimally small amount of mass.

The loss or gain of those electrons is temporary. The ion will not stay in this energetic state and soon picks up free electrons, or sheds the excess ones, to achieve a lower energy state. This produces radiation (Fraunhoffer radiation) usually in the visible spectrum. In any case, the change in atomic weight is negligible, as is the mass of an electron compared to the atom's nucleus.




I asked the manner in which you were using the term ionic field and you give me a bunch of disconnected factoids from the Mineoro web site.:rolleyes: Which none of them has anything to do with detecting gold.

Generated by continuous high tension positive or negative by sharp point. Normally around 800 to 900 volts. Other tensions are feasible.
I can see a hand held box creating this ionizing radiation, but how would buried gold accomplish the same?

- Ionic field by chemical flow in galvanization processes.
Gold is a noble metal. It doesn't take part in a galvanic process, unlike other more active metals like zinc.

- Other ionic fields generators for different purposes, so-called ionizators None of which would be found alongside buried gold.

I asked you for a simple explanation of this gold ionic field that is being detected and you throw mumbo jumbo back at me. Sorry Hung, but it doesn't wash.

If you read their reward statement which was sent to Carl and he made it public, you will find that Damasio mentions the inventors MIGHT disclose all the information of their discovery in the future.

So for now, what's in my post is all you need to know.
Besides what to expect from someone who does not even know how the electromagnetic fields interact in the case of Radionics?
And now hoping to discuss ionic fields detection from long time buried gold?
Naaahhhh....
Guess you better stick with what you know at this time.:D

[Rudy]

So for now, what's in my post is all you need to know.
Besides what to expect from someone who does not even know how the electromagnetic fields interact in the case of Radionics?
And now hoping to discuss ionic fields detection from long time buried gold?
Naaahhhh....
Guess you better stick with what you know at this time.:D

Spoken like a true charlatan.

Radionics, "the Voodoo doll of the modern age."

[Rudy]

Spoken like a true charlatan.

Radionics, "the Voodoo doll of the modern age."

For those interested in a complete explanation of the electromagnetic
field interactions in Radionics that Hung thinks so highly of, you can visit:
http://www.radionics.org/
and get a complete explanation of the innerworkings of the LRL equipment
you'd be paying good money for.

[Unregistered]

let say you have a (loop) coil.
your elctrik source is AC. but you use diod.
so you get one way current at loop which is not costant.
if you can omit opposite current at decays ,and make this at low frequency with powerfull waves,can you collecet positive and negatif ions around loop.
now apply this to earth.
north south fileds lines generally travels in ground with high density of flux than on earth surface.
when it crushes to diamagnetic substances and/or cavities needs to travel around it.
some of them has to be come up to surface and cause to increase of density at that spots(areas)
this will be powerfull source to pull ions on surface of earth than normal consantration flux areas.like magnet pulls iron .it will collect ions.
which ions ?
it is up to whaether and ionic properties of that region.

how is this rudy
maybe I can not give answer for weeks cause of job travel.

[hung]

let say you have a (loop) coil.
your elctrik source is AC. but you use diod.
so you get one way current at loop which is not costant.
if you can omit opposite current at decays ,and make this at low frequency with powerfull waves,can you collecet positive and negatif ions around loop.
now apply this to earth.
north south fileds lines generally travels in ground with high density of flux than on earth surface.
when it crushes to diamagnetic substances and/or cavities needs to travel around it.
some of them has to be come up to surface and cause to increase of density at that spots(areas)
this will be powerfull source to pull ions on surface of earth than normal consantration flux areas.like magnet pulls iron .it will collect ions.
which ions ?
it is up to whaether and ionic properties of that region.

how is this rudy
maybe I can not give answer for weeks cause of job travel.

Congratulations.
Altough there's still much more than that, your explanation in one post tells much more than all those made by skeptics so far.

[Rudy]

let say you have a (loop) coil.
your elctrik source is AC. but you use diod.
so you get one way current at loop which is not costant.
if you can omit opposite current at decays ,and make this at low frequency with powerfull waves,can you collecet positive and negatif ions around loop.
now apply this to earth.
north south fileds lines generally travels in ground with high density of flux than on earth surface.
when it crushes to diamagnetic substances and/or cavities needs to travel around it.
some of them has to be come up to surface and cause to increase of density at that spots(areas)
this will be powerfull source to pull ions on surface of earth than normal consantration flux areas.like magnet pulls iron .it will collect ions.
which ions ?
it is up to whaether and ionic properties of that region.

how is this rudy
maybe I can not give answer for weeks cause of job travel.

A scientific impossibility unfortunately.

Gold ions (assuming they are formed at all by the process you described), are not going to move from the body of gold (nugget, jewelry,...) and migrate to the surface.

Hung himself already agreed in a previous post on this thread that it is the "ionic field" and not the ions themselves that are being detected.

Unfortunately, he fails to scietifically explain how an electrostatic field created by stationary ionized atoms, can be detected at distances much greater than several atomic diameters away. His only explanation is "radionics".

I posted a link to the radionics page so everyone can see for themselves. It explains the pricinples in terms of magic and shammanism, with enough technical words sprinkled in to fool some people into thinking it could be real. It is pure manure. :eek:

[hung]

A scientific impossibility unfortunately.

Gold ions (assuming they are formed at all by the process you described), are not going to move from the body of gold (nugget, jewelry,...) and migrate to the surface.

Hung himself already agreed in a previous post on this thread that it is the "ionic field" and not the ions themselves that are being detected.

Unfortunately, he fails to scietifically explain how an electrostatic field created by stationary ionized atoms, can be detected at distances much greater than several atomic diameters away. His only explanation is "radionics".

I posted a link to the radionics page so everyone can see for themselves. It explains the pricinples in terms of magic and shammanism, with enough technical words sprinkled in to fool some people into thinking it could be real. It is pure manure. :eek:


No,no,no. You mistook what I said before and mixed them up in a bag of cats.

The Mineoro concept has nothing to do with radionics. I started a thread on radionics because of the description of the rangertell's device in their site.
I NEVER said ionic fields could be detected through radionics.

Anyway, your understanding of ions and ionic fields is incorrect as many related subjects which by the way are not vast, in the scientific 'academia' are also incomplete, maybe because of lack of deeper interest, maybe due to a strict and limited way of applying purposes.
I said I don't know what exactly Damasio and Alonso discovered about it which makes this so special and allowed them to build detectors which work beautifuly in this principle. I however have sufficient data which might or might not explain this, but I WILL never discuss this here as I would be contributing to break their scientific secrecy. If , and when, they decide to release the information, then all of this could be discussed.

What unregistered states opens a nice road to try to understand the phenomena, unlike you who blocked your knowledge with outdated concepts which deserves revision. Sorry.

[Esteban]

Here you can found about corrosion, electrostatic, ion mobility and more. (Ok, gold no present corrosion at the simple sight, but creates, as a conductive metal, an electric field around him.)

http://www.counteractrust.com.au/CounterAct%20rust%20prevention%20in%20mining%20&%20construction.htm


* * * * * * * * *


About mobile ions:

http://www.innovation.wa.gov.au/Innovation/portal_skin%3BEnhanced/Innovation%20Directory/g/geochemistry_research_centre/mobile_metal_ion

http://www.mmigeochem.com/Wildcat310706.pdf


* * * * * * * * *


From http://www.sciencewa.net.au/science_rd.asp?pg=111

"No-one is completely clear on exactly how the metal ions migrate to the surface. However, research and case studies over known ore-bodies have shown that mobile metal ions accumulate in surface soils above mineralization, indicating that the metals are derived from the mineralization source."


* * * * * * * * *


So also gold ions can travel from high depth to the surface:

http://www.acnnewswire.net/press/en/34355/Field-Public-Relations.html

"Proto today announced that it had employed Mobile Metal Ion (MMI) technology to identify a 1600 metres-long gold anomaly in its first major exploration effort since listing on the ASX last week with the goal of finding the source of high grade surface gold at Tibooburra."

"MMI technology uses chemical processes and extremely sensitive instrumentation to identify ions (or atoms) of minerals which have risen to the land surface from underground mineral deposits."


* * * * * * * * *

I understand that are moments with major fluctuations during this "travel" and with electronic sensitive instrument you can detect in the search area the umbalance. I do it with microvoltmeter with antenna and no doubt (for me) about the existence of a kind of field (as a battery) around buried for long time good conductive metals. NO DOUBT.


* * * * * * * * *

From Zahori's article (translation by Qiaozhi):

[hung]

Here you can found about corrosion, electrostatic, ion mobility and more. (Ok, gold no present corrosion at the simple sight, but creates, as a conductive metal, an electric field around him.)

http://www.counteractrust.com.au/CounterAct%20rust%20prevention%20in%20mining%20&%20construction.htm


* * * * * * * * *


About mobile ions:

http://www.innovation.wa.gov.au/Innovation/portal_skin%3BEnhanced/Innovation%20Directory/g/geochemistry_research_centre/mobile_metal_ion

http://www.mmigeochem.com/Wildcat310706.pdf


* * * * * * * * *


From http://www.sciencewa.net.au/science_rd.asp?pg=111

"No-one is completely clear on exactly how the metal ions migrate to the surface. However, research and case studies over known ore-bodies have shown that mobile metal ions accumulate in surface soils above mineralization, indicating that the metals are derived from the mineralization source."


* * * * * * * * *


So also gold ions can travel from high depth to the surface:

http://www.acnnewswire.net/press/en/34355/Field-Public-Relations.html

"Proto today announced that it had employed Mobile Metal Ion (MMI) technology to identify a 1600 metres-long gold anomaly in its first major exploration effort since listing on the ASX last week with the goal of finding the source of high grade surface gold at Tibooburra."

"MMI technology uses chemical processes and extremely sensitive instrumentation to identify ions (or atoms) of minerals which have risen to the land surface from underground mineral deposits."


* * * * * * * * *

I understand that are moments with major fluctuations during this "travel" and with electronic sensitive instrument you can detect in the search area the umbalance. I do it with microvoltmeter with antenna and no doubt (for me) about the existence of a kind of field (as a battery) around buried for long time good conductive metals. NO DOUBT.


* * * * * * * * *

From Zahori's article (translation by Qiaozhi):

Thanks for your concern Esteban, you have a nice and brilliant restless mind, but I should point that Zahori only detects electric fields. Nothing else.

Also when you say NO DOUBT, yes there's no doubt about it, but some hard headed people here will still argue... Do you wanna bet?
Jeeezzz...:rolleyes:

[Qiaozhi]

No,no,no. You mistook what I said before and mixed them up in a bag of cats.

The Mineoro concept has nothing to do with radionics. I started a thread on radionics because of the description of the rangertell's device in their site.
I NEVER said ionic fields could be detected through radionics.

Anyway, your understanding of ions and ionic fields is incorrect as many related subjects which by the way are not vast, in the scientific 'academia' are also incomplete, maybe because of lack of deeper interest, maybe due to a strict and limited way of applying purposes.
I said I don't know what exactly Damasio and Alonso discovered about it which makes this so special and allowed them to build detectors which work beautifuly in this principle. I however have sufficient data which might or might not explain this, but I WILL never discuss this here as I would be contributing to break their scientific secrecy. If , and when, they decide to release the information, then all of this could be discussed.

What unregistered states opens a nice road to try to understand the phenomena, unlike you who blocked your knowledge with outdated concepts which deserves revision. Sorry.
Why is this rubbish being discussed in the "Schematics" forum? :confused:
There appears to have been some (ionic?) leakage from the Remote Sensing section of this site. :rolleyes:
So far I haven't even seen one schematic.

[Esteban]

Rubbish or not rubbish, remember that Shila start this thread the day 01-05-2006, and you had participation in it since first moment. So, is very later... :D

[Qiaozhi]

Rubbish or not rubbish, remember that Shila start this thread the day 01-05-2006, and you had participation in it since first moment. So, is very later... :D
That's true. I guess I'm as much to blame then... :o

But it's still in the wrong place. :)

[Esteban]

Ok, hope the Administrator move this thread.

[Rudy]

Thanks you Esteban for the interesting links you provided. I would love to discuss these further. But as has been noted, the discussion doesn't belong on this board. Maybe it can be moved to the proper board?

[Sean_Goddard]

[quote=hung;39922]Yes. Ionic detection works and the Mineoro detectors do detect the gold ions.
All matter degrades with time and releases ions as they do.

Ions are modified atoms. When the atom loses electrons or gains electrons in this process of electron exchange, it is said to be IONIZED. For ionization to take place, there must be a transfer of energy which results in a change in the internal energy of the atom. Earth acts like this. An atom having more than its normal amount of electrons acquires a negative charge, and is called a NEGATIVE ION. The atom that gives up some of its normal electrons is left with less negative charges than positive charges and is called a POSITIVE ION.




ERM... GOLD DOES NOT DECAY that's why it is found in it's NATURAL state in the ground.. MILLIONS of years old DUH!!. Iron decays (rust) Aluminium decays to become bauxite , Copper, silver, etc, etc. Ah perhaps you are looking for the ADSENCE of gold ions, AH I see it now, another cop out in the genuine explanation, oh well NVM at least I saw through the psuedo scisnce in time. and just HOW do these target substances produce ionised particles anyhow? PLEASE TELL US how these ions are produced, I want the exact process please, becasue I'm having difficulty in working out how it happens.

Go make an ioniser, only a lightning strike NOT the natural CHEMICAL decay of metallic material could produce ions, and as the rain (usually goes with lightning) is supposed to "dampen" 'scuse the pun the ionic field, then this is another inconsistency I think.

[Qiaozhi]

[quote=hung;39922]Yes. Ionic detection works and the Mineoro detectors do detect the gold ions.
All matter degrades with time and releases ions as they do.

Ions are modified atoms. When the atom loses electrons or gains electrons in this process of electron exchange, it is said to be IONIZED. For ionization to take place, there must be a transfer of energy which results in a change in the internal energy of the atom. Earth acts like this. An atom having more than its normal amount of electrons acquires a negative charge, and is called a NEGATIVE ION. The atom that gives up some of its normal electrons is left with less negative charges than positive charges and is called a POSITIVE ION.




ERM... GOLD DOES NOT DECAY that's why it is found in it's NATURAL state in the ground.. MILLIONS of years old DUH!!. Iron decays (rust) Aluminium decays to become bauxite , Copper, silver, etc, etc. Ah perhaps you are looking for the ADSENCE of gold ions, AH I see it now, another cop out in the genuine explanation, oh well NVM at least I saw through the psuedo scisnce in time. and just HOW do these target substances produce ionised particles anyhow? PLEASE TELL US how these ions are produced, I want the exact process please, becasue I'm having difficulty in working out how it happens.

Go make an ioniser, only a lightning strike NOT the natural CHEMICAL decay of metallic material could produce ions, and as the rain (usually goes with lightning) is supposed to "dampen" 'scuse the pun the ionic field, then this is another inconsistency I think.
I had the "experience" of testing a Mineoro FG80 last week. Random beeping and nothing else. Totally unusable. :( :(

[Sean_Goddard]

Hung quoted some links to an Australian company which claimed to have uncovered a method of gold and mineral location by ionisation. The guys are supposed to be Ph.d's. Interesting to note that even these guys can be persuaded to jump on a bandwagon (and I have noticed that Oz companies like ot blow their own trumpets, no offence meant to any antipodean people present) and I doubt if they obtained their Doctorates the same way the REST of us did :p .

I know at least one guy who works in geological survey for a mineral location company and they use tried and trusted methods which are documented, and freely available to read. By the way, the guy works for RTZ (Rio Tinto Zinc) and if it was new and worked, they could afford it and would be using it!

[gallileo60]

Spoken like a true charlatan.

Radionics, "the Voodoo doll of the modern age."So for now, what's in my post is all you need to know.
Besides what to expect from someone who does not even know how the electromagnetic fields interact in the case of Radionics?
And now hoping to discuss ionic fields detection from long time buried gold?
Naaahhhh....
Guess you better stick with what you know at this time.:D



Boy does that sound like a crock of crap...........Who are you to say that is all someone needs to know.....It is for sure BS..Tom

[Steve in MS]

Scientific secrecy? I was under the impression that LRL are nothing more than expensive dowsing rods, if so then they will always be out of mainstream metal detecting. How big does the gold have to be before it is detected with LRL and doesn't it take undefined skills to properly use the equipment? That is can one person get the same results as another on controlled tests? If not, then they are souped up dowsing rods, get some clothes hangers and you will get same results and a lot cheaper :lol:. Once again, how big does the gold have to be before it is detected using LRL? And does it penetrate the ground as good as it would do in the air? I have so many questions and not enough time to be convinced and no, I won't spend any of my money trying them out because I don't believe in them and isn't that what it takes is belief, gets back to the fact they are nothing more than expensive dowsing rods. Maybe one of these days I will get into black magic and be able to operate them.
Sorry, I will remain unconvinced, I will leave all that gold for LRL users.

[gallileo60]

It is complete bull****, anyone who belives this is also a beleiver in witchcraft......Lets have a real double blind placebo test...If not what are you scared of???????Tom Shaw............

[Unregistered]

Hung quoted some links to an Australian company which claimed to have uncovered a method of gold and mineral location by ionisation. The guys are supposed to be Ph.d's. Interesting to note that even these guys can be persuaded to jump on a bandwagon (and I have noticed that Oz companies like ot blow their own trumpets, no offence meant to any antipodean people present) and I doubt if they obtained their Doctorates the same way the REST of us did :p .

I know at least one guy who works in geological survey for a mineral location company and they use tried and trusted methods which are documented, and freely available to read. By the way, the guy works for RTZ (Rio Tinto Zinc) and if it was new and worked, they could afford it and would be using it!

I guess you might be right in the first part....remember Gallipoli, talk about persuaded, should have just let you guys to it, ay cob.

Anyways, what is with Ionic Matal Detector, how different from:
http://www.direct.ca/trinity/iondetector.html

Some of you tried them, presumably bought them, did you not look inside? gets done with everything else here doesn`t it.

[J_Player]

I have never seen any LRL for sale demonstrated to find treasure. But the concept of ions in the ground around long-time buried metals is true.

Researchers discovered years ago in Australia there are certain "gold-eating" microbes in the soil that are able to excrete chemicals like cyanide and sulfur complexes that dissolve gold in trace amounts. Other microbes are able to cause these dissolved gold ions to precipitate on existing granules of gold, sometime forming sizable nuggets far away from the source of the original gold. Geologists look for the presence of some of these gold microbes in order to locate likely areas to explore for gold ore.

Later research by the Australian government discovered that deeply buried mineral deposits that have been in the ground a long time will usually have a column of soil extending vertically above the metal that has traces of metal ions. They discovered these trace ions move upward until they reach the surface, where they quickly become bound with other elements in the soil, and are no longer ions. Because they are no longer ions after reaching the surface, the metal ions don't travel beyond the surface, but are located just beneath the surface directly above an ore deposit.

The Australian company MMI Technology has been collecting soil samples at mine sites all over the world for years in order to find areas where there is a mesurable increase in the metal ion concentration. They use chemical methods to measure parts per billion of gold ions in the soil. They are able to locate ore deposits deep in the ground by finding the locations where there are an increase in metal ions at the surface. This is the exact same testing that is done at the Rio Tinto Zinc mine. The ores that can be found using MMI methods includes gold, copper, zinc, iron and many others.

This is not some weird science that nobody knows about. It has been in use to locate ore deposits in mines for years. There are over a million reports on web pages showing results of this research. Many mines pay over $60,000 to run a MMI survey in order to help locate their ore deposits. What these mines do not pay for is $5000 to buy a LRL to locate the ore deposits and ions that form in a column above the metal.

Check these posts for links that show geologist's and chemist's research into the ions around buried metals:
http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?t=13276#post55850
http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/showthread.php?t=13276&page=2#post56059

Best wishes,
J_P